-
ACR Jobs posts decline from 1100+ to 800+
-
Quote from chitownrads18
@dergon. What did folks make starting out back then? 200?
Cannot speak for Dergon but when I was a fellow I remember an attending stating that in the sought after PP group he started with in the tri-state area in the mid-90s, the partners were making in the 300’s. Clearly anecdotal and one has to factor production, inflation etc -
I view it as a perfect storm in 2009
1) Crash left rads feeling poor and vulnerable. No one retired and no one wanted to share the pot with a new hire.
2) Rads (and lots of docs) got convinced that the ACA was going to destroy radiology practice as we now and limit the number of studies that could be done. So lots of groups hunkered down with a wait and see approach
3) PACS and high speed internet was relatively new. Groups were able to dramatically increase the productivity of each individual radiologist by leaps and bounds due to the technological advancements. It made it easier to not hire and just ramp up the work rate instead.-
Quote from dergon
I view it as a perfect storm in 2009
1) Crash left rads feeling poor and vulnerable. No one retired and no one wanted to share the pot with a new hire.
2) Rads (and lots of docs) got convinced that the ACA was going to destroy radiology practice as we now and limit the number of studies that could be done. So lots of groups hunkered down with a wait and see approach
3) PACS and high speed internet was relatively new. Groups were able to dramatically increase the productivity of each individual radiologist by leaps and bounds due to the technological advancements. It made it easier to not hire and just ramp up the work rate instead.
One more factor to add to your list:
4) Deficit Reduction Act of 2005 (DRA) markedly decreased Technical Component reimbursement of freestanding outpatient imaging centers. The effects were phased in over several years. A lot of groups had to pivot to survive this hit.-
Rads are mostly passive or become that way due to the job. I find that more mentally taxing than the work itself. I find it difficult to always have to keep quiet and get along etc.
-
-
-
I don’t really get why people always speak about when the next job crash is going to be, as though it’s some pre-ordained thing. Like people who were waiting for a 2008 like crash to get in on RE
-
Job crash is coming. Just like winter is coming. My guess is 2029, based on nothing whatsoever.
-
Quote from chitownrads18
Job crash is coming. Just like winter is coming. My guess is 2029, based on nothing whatsoever.
This just posted on “Engage”. Haven’t looked too deeply yet but apparently we are amongst the specialties that is over-charging private-insurers (or getting severely underpaid by CMS)….Guess the fear is that private insurers make adjustments and decrease our reimbursement closer to CMS. This would certainly affect the job market.
[link=https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/practices/here-s-specialties-getting-highest-rates-from-commercial-plans-compared-to-medicare]https://www.fiercehealthc…s-compared-to-medicare[/link]
-
-
-
Interviewing fellows yesterday. Third years who will start fellowship in 2023 and hit the job market July 2024 …. one of them already has an offer getting ready to sign.
I’m taking a 4th year out to dinner some time soon … hasn’t even started fellowship yet and we’re recruiting hard.
Good time to be coming out.-
Quote from dergon
Interviewing fellows yesterday. Third years who will start fellowship in 2023 and hit the job market July 2024 …. one of them already has an offer getting ready to sign.
I’m taking a 4th year out to dinner some time soon … hasn’t even started fellowship yet and we’re recruiting hard.
[b]Good time to be coming out. [/b]
Once I read that I started to hear Diana Ross’s “I’m coming out”! Enjoy dinner! -
Quote from dergon
Interviewing fellows yesterday. Third years who will start fellowship in 2023 and hit the job market July 2024 …. one of them already has an offer getting ready to sign.
I’m taking a 4th year out to dinner some time soon … hasn’t even started fellowship yet and we’re recruiting hard.
Good time to be coming out.
I didn’t sign a contract until May of my fellowship year. I thought about doing a second fellowship and then said, “Fuck it, I’d rather live at my parents house and be a bum.”
Both offers I got were from connections, one was a low-ball from where I was doing fellowship (240k, lol), and the other was through a family connection (the job I took).
Must be nice to be coming out now.
1374 as of this moment.-
1300-1400 jobs now? Have you looked what they are? Many are multiple postings from the same groups and/or radpartners or other VC groups. So that number is inflated. Also, many of the jobs are not full time regular hour jobs (many are, just not a high percent). Many seem to be the late remote shift or the overnight shift with a 7/7 or 7/14 schedule. Having never done that, I don’t want to say it is bad, but it doesn’t seem like a job I would want. Days 1-4 may be fine. Day 5? Ok, breathe. Day 6 and 7? Just read to get through.
7 days to refresh is very nice, for sure, but then it starts again like the treadmill. Daytime work is more my interest with some nights thrown in.
Also, regarding jobs–there seem to be a few ways to look. Some people just want the right fit, the right group or department to fit their personality and needs. Others look just at the money and benefits (including time off). Geography is important for so many. With all these things, the number of jobs listed ends up being meaningless in my opinion. I would not want to get the highest salary if it meant working with miserable people who stabbed me in the back all the time and red / green lights at my workstation.-
Simple math 1100 or so new rads entering the market, ~1400 mostly undesirable or corp/VC jobs paired with increasing negative sentiment about working for PE leads to most taking these available jobs and 300-400 terrible positions being chronically unfilled. Terrible conditions. If these were traditional PP jobs which allowed career progression and financial benefit over years itd be the golden era again
-
Does your average rads resident realize the true difference between PP and PE? if you hang around online its obvious, but im always surprised by how skewed online forums are compared to real life. Wouldnt surprise me if PE can just offer 100k higher salary and that gets people over a traditional PP track job.
-
Quote from boggles
Does your average rads resident realize the true difference between PP and PE? if you hang around online its obvious, but im always surprised by how skewed online forums are compared to real life. Wouldnt surprise me if PE can just offer 100k higher salary and that gets people over a traditional PP track job.
The average physician knows very little about money – how they earn it, who is making money on their back, how to save / spend, etc etc. If you look at the facebook physician groups mentioned on another thread, you’ll see my point…
-
-
-
Quote from Midwest Eastern Rad
1300-1400 jobs now? Have you looked what they are? Many are multiple postings from the same groups and/or radpartners or other VC groups. So that number is inflated. Also, many of the jobs are not full time regular hour jobs (many are, just not a high percent). Many seem to be the late remote shift or the overnight shift with a 7/7 or 7/14 schedule. Having never done that, I don’t want to say it is bad, but it doesn’t seem like a job I would want. Days 1-4 may be fine. Day 5? Ok, breathe. Day 6 and 7? Just read to get through.
7 days to refresh is very nice, for sure, but then it starts again like the treadmill. Daytime work is more my interest with some nights thrown in.
Also, regarding jobs–there seem to be a few ways to look. Some people just want the right fit, the right group or department to fit their personality and needs. Others look just at the money and benefits (including time off). Geography is important for so many. With all these things, the number of jobs listed ends up being meaningless in my opinion. I would not want to get the highest salary if it meant working with miserable people who stabbed me in the back all the time and red / green lights at my workstation.
I’m not sure what your point is… It’s a very broad indicator – like looking at the S and P 500 or the number of housing starts.
-
-
Quote from knightrider
Quote from dergon
Interviewing fellows yesterday. Third years who will start fellowship in 2023 and hit the job market July 2024 …. one of them already has an offer getting ready to sign.
I’m taking a 4th year out to dinner some time soon … hasn’t even started fellowship yet and we’re recruiting hard.
Good time to be coming out.
I didn’t sign a contract until May of my fellowship year. I thought about doing a second fellowship and then said, “**** it, I’d rather live at my parents house and be a bum.”
Both offers I got were from connections, one was a low-ball from where I was doing fellowship (240k, lol), and the other was through a family connection (the job I took).
Must be nice to be coming out now.1374 as of this moment.
Must have come out around when I did. I did not sign my 1st contract until memorial day weekend of my fellowship. Details of the job in the contract changed dramatically from the time I had interviewed in March (no partnership etc). Tolerated the job for a bit (happened to be in an extremely sub-optimal location to boot), market still wasn’t great so jumped on a late opening and did a 2nd fellowship (largely based on location and the ability to do 2-3 months of breast). Long-term things have worked out but it was pretty tough being a new grad in that market.-
Quote from jd4540
Quote from knightrider
Quote from dergon
Interviewing fellows yesterday. Third years who will start fellowship in 2023 and hit the job market July 2024 …. one of them already has an offer getting ready to sign.
I’m taking a 4th year out to dinner some time soon … hasn’t even started fellowship yet and we’re recruiting hard.
Good time to be coming out.
I didn’t sign a contract until May of my fellowship year. I thought about doing a second fellowship and then said, “**** it, I’d rather live at my parents house and be a bum.”
Both offers I got were from connections, one was a low-ball from where I was doing fellowship (240k, lol), and the other was through a family connection (the job I took).
Must be nice to be coming out now.1374 as of this moment.
Must have come out around when I did. I did not sign my 1st contract until memorial day weekend of my fellowship. Details of the job in the contract changed dramatically from the time I had interviewed in March (no partnership etc). Tolerated the job for a bit (happened to be in an extremely sub-optimal location to boot), market still wasn’t great so jumped on a late opening and did a 2nd fellowship (largely based on location and the ability to do 2-3 months of breast). Long-term things have worked out but it was pretty tough being a new grad in that market.
1997 for me. Job market was rough.
Got lucky that one of the MSK faculty at my home town university hospital announced he was quitting in mid-September of my fellowship year.
My chair asked if I wanted the job and I said yes. Took off my sterile glove (I had said yes while done a bone biopsy), shook hands without asking a single question, scrubbed back in a finished the case.
25 years later….. still at the same place. -
There’s a lot of sunken cost motivation, or that type of thing, with doctors wanting to be in location X, family around location Z, ease of lifestyle or commuting after training so long, etc. Many of the institutions know they have docs by the balls, and how few know literally anything, as you all have stated, about how much $ is in the system, and how much the grifters get that they don’t …
-
-
Quote from knightrider
1374 as of this moment.
Is now 1434 3 days later.
Yeah a lot of them are crappy jobs but 1434 crappy jobs is still a better job market than 600 crappy jobs
-
-
-
Quote from knightrider
I’m not sure what your point is… It’s a very broad indicator – like looking at the S and P 500 or the number of housing starts.
My point? There could be 3 million jobs. But if 2 million are from the same company, that is totally misleading.
Further, if you want to live in Texas, but there are 4 jobs in Texas and the other 1296 jobs are in other areas of the country, and then if 3 of the 4 jobs in Texas are for night only jobs, is the job market really that good?
Is a good job market defined as being owned by a VC group where the job is really just a leveraged low paid job relatively speaking? It all depends on what the individual is looking for, but as it is, that number is grossly inflated since many of the jobs are really the same company and the same type of job. So I don’t view it as an indicator as much as just noise. Finding the right job for oneself is still not necessarily easy.-
It’s amazing the lack of critical thinking out there, this is old news I’ve been trying to inform others of to dispel the Chamber of Commerce types that blame workers for not accepting lowball jobs. There are so many jobs out there! LOL, as if that means anything to a worker, boomer.
-
Quote from Midwest Eastern Rad
Quote from knightrider
I’m not sure what your point is… It’s a very broad indicator – like looking at the S and P 500 or the number of housing starts.
My point? There could be 3 million jobs. But if 2 million are from the same company, that is totally misleading.
Further, if you want to live in Texas, but there are 4 jobs in Texas and the other 1296 jobs are in other areas of the country, and then if 3 of the 4 jobs in Texas are for night only jobs, is the job market really that good?
Is a good job market defined as being owned by a VC group where the job is really just a leveraged low paid job relatively speaking? It all depends on what the individual is looking for, but as it is, that number is grossly inflated since many of the jobs are really the same company and the same type of job. So I don’t view it as an indicator as much as just noise. Finding the right job for oneself is still not necessarily easy.
The job market is the best its been since 2016 regarding the number of jobs. Tracking the number of ACR job listings is the best objective measure/indicator of the job market that we have. However the quality of jobs has decreased over time in radiology in a similar way to the rest of the economy.
-
Job quality definitely is down due to Corp infiltration.
-
Quote from CoronaRad
Job quality definitely is down due to Corp infiltration.
Yet they (P/E) survive…Build it, and they will come…-
Are all of the 1400+ job on ACR great? Of course not. It’s like digging through online dating profiles. Most of them are garbage – they’re only on there because they’re garbage. The best ones get taken by word of mouth. You may occasionally stumble on a diamond in the rough.1
My point? There could be 3 million jobs. But if 2 million are from the same company, that is totally misleading.
Further, if you want to live in Texas, but there are 4 jobs in Texas and the other 1296 jobs are in other areas of the country, and then if 3 of the 4 jobs in Texas are for night only jobs, is the job market really that good?
Is a good job market defined as being owned by a VC group where the job is really just a leveraged low paid job relatively speaking? It all depends on what the individual is looking for, but as it is, that number is grossly inflated since many of the jobs are really the same company and the same type of job. So I don’t view it as an indicator as much as just noise. Finding the right job for oneself is still not necessarily easy.
An economic indicator is a BROAD reflection of the market as a whole.
Yes, obviously, if you’re looking for PET-CT jobs in Lubbock Texas, the local group is the only one that matters.
I never said it’s easy to find your dream job. I don’t know who you’re arguing against….
“Broad – covering a large number and wide scope of subjects or areas.”
–> Not specific.
I also don’t know where I said anything about being upset that people are not taking low paying jobs. No one should take a low paying job, unless there are non-monetary benefits that trump/justify the low pay.
PE should go under – I’ve been saying that for years. I’ve asked about how they’re still in business on this forum.
The business model makes no sense.
I don’t know why people keep working for them. I never have and don’t see myself doing so in the future.
There’s a lot of sunken cost motivation, or that type of thing, with doctors wanting to be in location X, family around location Z, ease of lifestyle or commuting after training so long, etc. Many of the institutions know they have docs by the balls, and how few know literally anything, as you all have stated, about how much $ is in the system, and how much the grifters get that they don’t …
Most people don’t know what they’re worth. Many in the current generation of young physicians have a strong sense of imposter syndrome. Many don’t know how to operate without mommy / daddy / big institution watching over their shoulders.
This is definitely not advised or recommended by me.
I have always STRONGLY recommended against signing non – competes. Not because you may plan on opening your own shop (you probably aren’t; I’m definitely not), but because it robs you of your negotiating power….
Anyways, unfortunately and as is common for AM, this has devolved into a negative conversation. I may occasionally check in to post the number, for my own records, but I’m signing off from commenting otherwise.-
Anyways, unfortunately and as is common for AM, this has devolved into a negative conversation. I may occasionally check in to post the number, for my own records, but I’m signing off from commenting otherwise.
Knight:
the nature of any discussion is not “negativity” but working out agreements, disagreements, giving varied opinions, etc.
If you thought I was gaslighting you, you are incorrect. I just don’t agree with your premise that it is a “good job market” based on 1400 ACR jobs. The number is a good indicator that there is a need for radiologists, but since we all don’t look all over the place, the total number of jobs is just a number. I don’t know how one finds out about jobs through word of mouth unless you have a large network of radiologists (I do not). So I count on these ads. For example, in Ohio, there are a fairly large number of jobs. But many of them are from the same organization, Columbus Radiology (which seems to be VC) and a few are from Ohio State as academic jobs. I guess that is a good number if you are looking to be in Ohio, but are all the jobs pretty much the same? I don’t know because I’m not applying but I just use Ohio as an example–and that is a state which had consolidation recently according to reports.
I will say that I have sent in inquiries over the last several months and I am about 50/50 about even getting a reply from the jobs. I don’t know what that says, but if a place does not even the courtesy to reply, ‘yay’ or ‘no thanks’, what does that say?
But don’t walk away with woes and statements of negativity. This is a discussion board, and not everyone has to agree. I found no hostility personally in this discussion-
Recruitment meeting today.
Competitors are beginning to routinely offer positions to R3s … and beginning bonus payments during fellowship to those who commit early.
No let down in the job market yet.-
Quote from dergon
Recruitment meeting today.
Competitors are beginning to routinely offer positions to R3s … and beginning bonus payments during fellowship to those who commit early.
No let down in the job market yet.
Alternate pathway fellows are being recruited for faculty positions just after doing 1-2 years of fellowships!!
-
Quote from Voxel77
Quote from dergon
Recruitment meeting today.
Competitors are beginning to routinely offer positions to R3s … and beginning bonus payments during fellowship to those who commit early.
No let down in the job market yet.
Alternate pathway fellows are being recruited for faculty positions just after doing 1-2 years of fellowships!!
For sure… now even the decision to *offer* alt pathway is being made with an eye to retention as faculty-
Quote from dergon
For sure… now even the decision to *offer* alt pathway is being made with an eye to retention as faculty
Someone should tell the university administrators that one way to recruit/retain quality faculty is to have a competitive compensation package.
Got another ‘job blast’ from the ACR today. The first 9 featured jobs are Envision….
-
^^ universities and their satellites seem to always be behind on this. When rads leave, they may raise the salary. Rinse and repeat.
-
Multiple jobs with 50 k signing bonuses!!
I wonder how other associates and new partners feel giving away money to newbies just to hire!! -
Why is it allowed that many RP groups use their old branding and dont even mention RP in the Ads? This would seem like trying to intentionally mislead job seekers ?
-
Quote from CoronaRad
Why is it allowed that many RP groups use their old branding and dont even mention RP in the Ads? This would seem like trying to intentionally mislead job seekers ?
pecunia non olet -
Not sure how small towns practices that need on site rad coverage will manage with the amount of open jobs in decent towns.
There are still practices where you can only work onsite, having to travel to multiple hospitals with different PACs and dictation software. Ive seen multiple practices in small towns that have rads dictate to a phone! How are these jobs still competitive!? Usually old partners unwilling to invest in change as they are close to the end of their career. One paid well, but still, wtf.
-
Quote from Umichfan
Ive seen multiple practices in small towns that have rads dictate to a phone! How are these jobs still competitive!? Usually old partners unwilling to invest in change as they are close to the end of their career. One paid well, but still, wtf.
A C-phone with bar-code reader, a competent transcriptionist and your studies loaded on a local PACS workstation is the highest productivity you’ll ever see:
swipe
Blip-blip-blip-beeep:
Accession#. Normal head, white matter. end of report.
#click
-
Quote from fw
Quote from Umichfan
Ive seen multiple practices in small towns that have rads dictate to a phone! How are these jobs still competitive!? Usually old partners unwilling to invest in change as they are close to the end of their career. One paid well, but still, wtf.
A C-phone with bar-code reader, a competent transcriptionist and your studies loaded on a local PACS workstation is the highest productivity you’ll ever see:
swipe
Blip-blip-blip-beeep:
Accession#. Normal head, white matter. end of report.
#click100% agreed. You can get pretty close with good macros and knowledge of how to use Powerscribe, but using a good transcriptionist is still WAAAY easier and gives you a second set of eyes to look out for transcription / editing errors
-
I just Wikipediaed pecunia non olet.
Learned something new today, thank you:)
-
Oh the boomers with their transcriptionist fantasies. Dude that money gotta come from somewhere. No way youre more economically efficient with a transcriptionist vs not when tabulating the cost. That is unless youre a boomer or you slur your speech like a drunk sailor.
-
Quote from sartoriusBIG
Oh the boomers with their transcriptionist fantasies. Dude that money gotta come from somewhere. No way youre more economically efficient with a transcriptionist vs not when tabulating the cost. That is unless youre a boomer or you slur your speech like a drunk sailor.
This does not add up.
A transcriptionist is, what, $20 an hour(ours were less)? Would you rather pay $20 an hour to be significantly faster and more productive?
Alternately you can save that $20 an hour by paying for Powerscribe 360 and slowing your production significantly.
Paying transcriptionists is a financial gain. Unless, of course, you are employed, in which case your employer will be happy to fire the transcriptionists, make you do their job, and then say you should be more productive, or pay you based on the productivity that they hinder. -
Typical boomer response. If you know to to manage technology and speak clearly, you dont have to correct anything. I rarely have to correct anything in my reports. Granted, there are those with accents and language barriers who may struggle more, but cant cater to those few.
-
Quote from sartoriusBIG
Typical boomer response. If you know to to manage technology and speak clearly, you dont have to correct anything. I rarely have to correct anything in my reports. Granted, there are those with accents and language barriers who may struggle more, but cant cater to those few.
a) I am not a boomer. Perhaps you meant to say “typical response of someone who has used both transcription and voice rec.”
b) Using primarily macros and correcting very rarely is still significantly slower than a good transcriptionist. Have you used a proper radiology transcriptionist? If you have not, as fw noted above, a good transcriptionist is the most productive you will be.
c) Yes, perhaps with accents or something which may be difficult for a transcriptionist there would be a benefit to using macros in Powerscribe. I don’t think either of us are talking about that scenario. -
Quote from sartoriusBIG
Oh the boomers with their transcriptionist fantasies. Dude that money gotta come from somewhere. No way youre more economically efficient with a transcriptionist vs not when tabulating the cost. That is unless youre a boomer or you slur your speech like a drunk sailor.
I’m definitely NOT a boomer.
Have you ever worked with a good transcriptionist? -
Now sandeep thinks boomer is a slur? Wow, some people get triggered so easily. Relax buddy. Take a deep breath and realize that opinions other than your own are allowed to exist.
-
If there was any truth to it being more cost effective, then all or most groups would have paid for their own transcriptionist out of pocket. What actually happened? Hospitals stopped paying for it and most groups decided it wasnt cost effective to pay for it themselves on their own dime when powerscribe does a perfectly adequate job for the vast majority of people.
Now we have sandeep getting all worked up, huffing and puffing. Fine Sandeep- please explain why all groups dont have a transcriptionist if it is so cost effective?
Like all markets, cost effective ways of doing business tend to survive no matter who bears the burden of the cost center if it is truly cost effective.
And remember your argument is that its more cost effective. If were arguing whats faster for people without accounting for costs, sure we all know that plenty of rads (mostly boomers) dictate considerably faster that way. Its the cost effectiveness that we are talking about and has been my argument from the beginning.
-
RP and Envision would be championing the cost effective power of medical transcriptionists if it were true. We know theyd love to skim more profits off people and anything that saves them money would ultimately go more into their pockets than the radiologists pockets. Yet, they arent championing this cause. I wonder why? Maybe its because theyve done the math and it just doesnt add up. I dont trust Private equity and corporate radiology for a lot of things, but I do expect them to be looking out for their own bottom line when they can.
-
I used transcription for over 20 years.
A good transcriptionist is amazing.
Now I am fine with PS, but a transcriptionist anticipates as an assistant.
The only issue is 24/7 availability. Esp turnaround for Ed.
But for op imaging, fantastic. -
Why did your group stop using transcriptionist boomer?
-
$$
Its easier/cheaper for them to have radiologists be their own secretary 24/7.
We were fortunate to go to PS as a mature technology, so the transition was not too painful.
You never want to be the first to test a technology. Let it come into its own.
-
So it sounds like your group thought it wouldnt be cost effective to pay for it out of the groups pocket. I figured as much. Sure, it would be nice to have as Im sure many people would agree. But not cost effective enough for a group to pay it on their own dime.
-
This is a pretty good thread. For me to poop on
Normally I have to eat grass when I want to puke
-
RP is looking to hire everyone!
They will give you a base pay of 325,000 year for a 7 on/7 off job. All you have to do is guarantee them 7.63 rvu/hour for a 9 hour shift (68 rvus) which is $26/rvu.
Then! get this! They will pay you $25/hr for all additional RVUs above that!
What a job! What a company!
Just ask yourself… Where else can you get 20th percentile pay for 80th+ percentile work?? -
RADS. Stop working for people like this. How can your already inflated opinions of yourself allow you to do this?
-
The poop on is triumph as referenced above, its a funny bit, they best being him pooping on the debut of the phantom menace fans waiting.
-
Quote from Cubsfan10
RP is looking to hire everyone!
They will give you a base pay of 325,000 year for a 7 on/7 off job. All you have to do is guarantee them 7.63 rvu/hour for a 9 hour shift (68 rvus) which is $26/rvu.
Then! get this! They will pay you $25/hr for all additional RVUs above that!
What a job! What a company!
Just ask yourself… Where else can you get 20th percentile pay for 80th+ percentile work??
LOL – who is taking these jobs?!
A colleague of mine just took a 1 week on 2 week off gig (5 pm – 1 am) at an academic ED center (with overnight residents and fellows dictating at least half the volume ) for 375k. In a major city.
325 for 1 week on vs off. wow. can’t imagine the level of talent they are getting for those jobs. -
So it sounds like your group thought it wouldnt be cost effective to pay for it out of the groups pocket. I figured as much. Sure, it would be nice to have as Im sure many people would agree. But not cost effective enough for a group to pay it on their own dime.
The hospital we contract with made the decision, irrespective of us.
Additionally, as a group we are penny wise pound foolish. No attempt at cost benefit analysis. We just accepted it. -
We found it cost effective to hire editors to work on the hospitals dictation system. Of course, you dont send a basic templated report to the editor, but for onc, post-op spines etc. its well worth it.
Still not as productive as a c-phone with a competent live transcriptionist. -
Quote from ar123
Quote from Cubsfan10
RP is looking to hire everyone!
They will give you a base pay of 325,000 year for a 7 on/7 off job. All you have to do is guarantee them 7.63 rvu/hour for a 9 hour shift (68 rvus) which is $26/rvu.
Then! get this! They will pay you $25/hr for all additional RVUs above that!
What a job! What a company!
Just ask yourself… Where else can you get 20th percentile pay for 80th+ percentile work??
LOL – who is taking these jobs?!
A colleague of mine just took a 1 week on 2 week off gig (5 pm – 1 am) at an academic ED center (with overnight residents and fellows dictating at least half the volume ) for 375k. In a major city.
325 for 1 week on vs off. wow. can’t imagine the level of talent they are getting for those jobs.
It’s truly mind-bogging, I often wonder the same thing. I guess there are individuals that minimize career/professional satisfaction and prioritize location/family? Maybe some who need to be in location A bc of hire-earning spouse? Maybe new-grads that don’t know any better? -
I think its mostly new grads who dont know better and people with red flags that would have hard time getting jobs elsewhere.
Even if stuck in a specific location, there are much better tele jobs out there from PP or employed by academic/nonprofit hospitals.
Its a good reminder for those of us with
residents to warn them to avoid PE and educate about the job market. -
New grads should never even consider RP or PE jobs. There are many better options. I can see if you are a rad with red flags but otherwise stay away you are wasting your investment in your education.
-
Honestly they are not bad starter jobs for many people. Consider a rads with a physician spouse finishing training. You can probably negotiate a good starting salary in this market and work for a couple years while your significant other finishes training. Also PP love people that can hit the ground running. Our group would love to hire a recent grad who worked at PE for a couple years because they wont be as slow starting out. Of course have to he careful and look for red flags but I see why some people start out at PE
-
Interesting contrarian viewpoint. Personally would still be opposed to PE out of principle but this makes sense.
Quote from sartoriusBIG
Honestly they are not bad starter jobs for many people. Consider a rads with a physician spouse finishing training. You can probably negotiate a good starting salary in this market and work for a couple years while your significant other finishes training. Also PP love people that can hit the ground running. Our group would love to hire a recent grad who worked at PE for a couple years because they wont be as slow starting out. Of course have to he careful and look for red flags but I see why some people start out at PE
-
Its a gamble and not great longterm. But Ive seen the signing bonuses and salaries of some PE jobs. Not a bad gig if its part of a plan to later transition to PP or a nice hospital employed job in a few years. Albeit a bit risky if the market turns and then you could be screwed lol.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Can confirm this in a few practices around me. R3s are being (aggressively) recruited.
-
Will the need for fellowship ever go away or has that ship sailed?
-
We have interviewed a couple of generalists over the last for possible positions. Maybe a hot job market will tempt some new graduates to go straight out …
but i expect that to remain a small minority unless the market stays hot for a long time-
We are losing attendings at my large tertiary academic center at quite a high rate. I think its indicative of the job market as many are younger and have gone simply for better jobs.
-
-
-
-
caveat emptor.
(but yeah, it would be great if the ACR redesigned its page and set rules that required more open disclosure before job postings are put online)-
Over 1500 now
-
-
And $20 an hour? Welcome to 2022 my friend. I went to colorado on a ski trip recently. Driving in, I saw a sign at the local mcdonalds advertising $19 per hour looking for workers. It aint 2003 anymore.
Also Its funny the spectrum of thought. I for one dont think AI will replace us anytime in the next 30 years. But at least Im not as bad as boomer who thinks a transcriptionist is cost effective for the vast majority of rads. Technically powerscribe is a form of AI.
-
Quote from sartoriusBIG
And $20 an hour? Welcome to 2022 my friend. I went to colorado on a ski trip recently. Driving in, I saw a sign at the local mcdonalds advertising $19 per hour looking for workers. It aint 2003 anymore.
Also Its funny the spectrum of thought. I for one dont think AI will replace us anytime in the next 30 years. But at least Im not as bad as boomer who thinks a transcriptionist is cost effective for the vast majority of rads. Technically powerscribe is a form of AI.
The spectrum of thought is indeed funny. Some people perseverate on the incorrect notion that someone with a different opinion must be a boomer, or someone else they view as impaired or inferior.
I texted one of our former transcriptionists (because we switched to Powerscribe over a decade ago). They were making $11/hr with us, and now (2022!) they are making $19. So perhaps with benefits they are slightly over $20. Rates in your locale will vary.
Try not to be so judgemental and absolutist, especially if you haven’t used this antiquated system you are so against.-
Quote from sandeep panga
Quote from sartoriusBIG
And $20 an hour? Welcome to 2022 my friend. I went to colorado on a ski trip recently. Driving in, I saw a sign at the local mcdonalds advertising $19 per hour looking for workers. It aint 2003 anymore.
Also Its funny the spectrum of thought. I for one dont think AI will replace us anytime in the next 30 years. But at least Im not as bad as boomer who thinks a transcriptionist is cost effective for the vast majority of rads. Technically powerscribe is a form of AI.
The spectrum of thought is indeed funny. Some people perseverate on the incorrect notion that someone with a different opinion must be a boomer, or someone else they view as impaired or inferior.
I texted one of our former transcriptionists (because we switched to Powerscribe over a decade ago). They were making $11/hr with us, and now (2022!) they are making $19. So perhaps with benefits they are slightly over $20. Rates in your locale will vary.
Try not to be so judgemental and absolutist, especially if you haven’t used this antiquated system you are so against.
Depending on the quality of the integration, PS with a editor can be pretty fast. It’s a better use of the transcriptionists time to edit rather than transcribe, but from a radiologist throughput perspective nothing beats live transcription. Of course, at their end they use macros for formatting, technique etc., but that’s a secretary doing a secretaries job, not a radiologist doing a secretaries job.
-
-
Quote from sartoriusBIG
And $20 an hour? Welcome to 2022 my friend. I went to colorado on a ski trip recently. Driving in, I saw a sign at the local mcdonalds advertising $19 per hour looking for workers. It aint 2003 anymore.
Also Its funny the spectrum of thought. I for one dont think AI will replace us anytime in the next 30 years. But at least Im not as bad as boomer who thinks a transcriptionist is cost effective for the vast majority of rads. Technically powerscribe is a form of AI.
The spectrum of thought is indeed funny. Some people perseverate on the incorrect notion that someone with a different opinion must be a boomer, or someone else they view as impaired or inferior.
I texted one of our former transcriptionists (because we switched to Powerscribe over a decade ago). They were making $11/hr with us, and now (2022!) they are making $19. So perhaps with benefits they are slightly over 2022. Rates in your locale will vary.
Try not to be so judgemental and absolutist, especially if you haven’t used this antiquated system you are so against. -
Quote from sartoriusBIG
And $20 an hour? Welcome to 2022 my friend. I went to colorado on a ski trip recently. Driving in, I saw a sign at the local mcdonalds advertising $19 per hour looking for workers. It aint 2003 anymore.
Also Its funny the spectrum of thought. I for one dont think AI will replace us anytime in the next 30 years. But at least Im not as bad as boomer who thinks a transcriptionist is cost effective for the vast majority of rads. Technically powerscribe is a form of AI.
We all know we shouldn’t get sucked in by the internet trolls and yet I did anyway.
Here is data from Payscale.com, last updated February 9, 2022, for radiology transcriptionists.
“The average hourly pay for a Radiology Transcriptionist is $20.49”
[link=https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Radiology_Transcriptionist/Hourly_Rate]https://www.payscale.com/…riptionist/Hourly_Rate[/link]
So what you’ve established is that you do not know the difference between using a transcriptionist vs voice rec software and you do not know how much transcriptionists get paid, but you will bloviate your uninformed opinions about both as if you do.
Oh, and you will use a classification that you view as a slur against those with a differing opinion.
You would have made Christopher Wallace sad.
-
-
Quote from sandeep panga
Quote from sartoriusBIG
And $20 an hour? Welcome to 2022 my friend. I went to colorado on a ski trip recently. Driving in, I saw a sign at the local mcdonalds advertising $19 per hour looking for workers. It aint 2003 anymore.
Also Its funny the spectrum of thought. I for one dont think AI will replace us anytime in the next 30 years. But at least Im not as bad as boomer who thinks a transcriptionist is cost effective for the vast majority of rads. Technically powerscribe is a form of AI.
We all know we shouldn’t get sucked in by the internet trolls and yet I did anyway.
Here is data from Payscale.com, last updated February 9, 2022, for radiology transcriptionists.
“The average hourly pay for a Radiology Transcriptionist is $20.49”
[link=https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Radiology_Transcriptionist/Hourly_Rate]https://www.payscale.com/…riptionist/Hourly_Rate[/link]So what you’ve established is that you do not know the difference between using a transcriptionist vs voice rec software and you do not know how much transcriptionists get paid, but you will bloviate your uninformed opinions about both as if you do.
Oh, and you will use a classification that you view as a slur against those with a differing opinion.You would have made Christopher Wallace sad.
Yeah, this has nothing to do with facts or generational differences. All that counts is throwing some bombs and looking for effect. ‘Triumph the insult radiologist’.
-
This is a pretty good thread. For me to poop on
-
-
Attack of the clones.
[link]https://youtu.be/YKT7bx-fmtk[/link]
-
Quote from sartoriusBIG
So it sounds like your group thought it wouldnt be cost effective to pay for it out of the groups pocket. I figured as much. Sure, it would be nice to have as Im sure many people would agree. But not cost effective enough for a group to pay it on their own dime.
You ever interact with an administrator Mr Big? When Admin pushes for something you don’t say no. Many groups passively resisted for years. That is all one can do. ER and inpatient docs wanted immediate final reads for many reasons.
The ER and stat inpatient finals are what made Powerscribe become a standard.
It was amazing to get finals so quickly to ordering docs. Cut down on hand written prelims and calls and tech interactions too.
Transcription with PACS is the fastest thing around. Never take your eyes off the cases.-
Oh I know. Youre right. Its not cost effective and certainly slower for stats. Its just that Sandeep somehow thought it was cost effective to have a transcriptionist. But he disappeared before he could explain his logic. Seems he now has reassessed his stance, hence the disappearance. Or maybe hes going to his group to present a plan of how hes going to revolutionize his groups productivity on a cost effective basis with a transcriptionist because hes found a way to make it cost effective. Shrug.
-
Quote from sartoriusBIG
Oh I know. Youre right. Its not cost effective and certainly slower for stats. Its just that Sandeep somehow thought it was cost effective to have a transcriptionist. But he disappeared before he could explain his logic. Seems he now has reassessed his stance, hence the disappearance. Or maybe hes going to his group to present a plan of how hes going to revolutionize his groups productivity on a cost effective basis with a transcriptionist because hes found a way to make it cost effective. Shrug.
Have you ever used a transcriptionist?
-
You ever interact with an administrator Mr Big? When Admin pushes for something you don’t say no. Many groups passively resisted for years. That is all one can do. ER and inpatient docs wanted immediate final reads for many reasons.
The ER and stat inpatient finals are what made Powerscribe become a standard.
It was amazing to get finals so quickly to ordering docs. Cut down on hand written prelims and calls and tech interactions too.
Transcription with PACS is the fastest thing around. Never take your eyes off the cases.
This is my experience.
Would be nice to have backup transcriptionist; but not an option.
Many groups passively resisted for years. This is what we did. By the time we started with PS, pretty good.
All in all, worked out.
-
I can prob read about 50% more volume with transcriptionist workflow than voice recognition. And no, not a boomer.
-
^Agree.
I’m no boomer but got to use transcription service before it went away. In looking back even when I account for volume, I just wasn’t as tired after work those days and I think being my own secretary just wears me out.
The only thing I don’t miss about that service is having to sign off on my reports after the fact.
Let’s not forget PowerScribe helped create the drive through sensibility in Radiology where everyone expects their routine results before you’ve even clicked sign.
-
Quote from rayZor
The only thing I don’t miss about that service is having to sign off on my reports after the fact.
With a team of good transcriptionists who are used to your pattern and who have access to RIS and PACS, you rarely ever have to correct anything. After a while, you can just skim through the reports and sign them. The rate limiting step for that activity is how quickly the screen on the RIS client can refresh. Now, if the hospital is run by a bunch of cheap bozos and transcription is contracted to some Kentucky hillbillies, you may not have that productivity advantage.
Now, hand-signing your 200 paper reports every day before 3:30 so the courier can make his rounds to the local offices, that was something else.
CTs printed on 4×5 and everything hung on two belt alternators to bounce back and forth between. Read one belt while your tech aide loads the other.
It’s what separated the boys from the men 😉-
1482 jobs as of today.
-
When I was in residency, the radiology group made the transition from transcriptionist to Powerscribe halfway through my training, so I got to use both. I 100% prefer Powerscribe. Did not like transcription, and still really like Powerscribe out in practice. Having to re-review dictations for errors later on really sucks, not to mention communicating prelims because the final report won’t be out until the transcription returns and you review and sign it. Additionally, rewording or restructuring reports is MUCH easier and transparent with Powerscribe than transcription. Whatever speed gains I got from transcription were more than negated by those aspects.
-
Love it when boomers and almost boomers wax nostalgic about transcriptionists. Doesnt really matter tho. If it were truly cost effective private groups would pay for it out of their own pocket. You can blame it on those greedy hospital administrators from eliminating your subsidy all you want. But you can still buy it on your own time if its worth it. Outside of the rare super volume teleradiologist, it just doesnt make sense from a financial standpoint.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Quote from sartoriusBIG
Its just that Sandeep somehow thought it was cost effective to have a transcriptionist. But he disappeared before he could explain his logic. Seems he now has reassessed his stance, hence the disappearance. Or maybe hes going to his group to present a plan of how hes going to revolutionize his groups productivity on a cost effective basis with a transcriptionist because hes found a way to make it cost effective. Shrug.
It is nice you were concerned about my absence. It has only been a day. If you must know, I was surfing. I don’t want to be on this forum every day, it can be a negative environment.
You seem very caught up in all this. Don’t be. My opinion was, and remains, that it is much faster to have a good transcriptionist than voice recognition. That’s all. I found it unhelpful to the community at large that one person (you) was so vocal and vehement about my opinion being wrong although they (you) did not have the experience to make that assessment.
This thread was originally about the job market.-
No you were supposed to be disputing my assertion that it is not cost effective. But you left when you realized you realized the majority of PP groups dont have it because theyd have to pay for it on their own dime and its not worth it from a financial standpoint for most groups that would have to pay for it out of pocket. I frankly dont care if its faster. If its not viable from a financial standpoint for most groups then its a non-starter. But you dont seem to want to admit that. Must be your pride.
-
Hospitals paid for transcription and now pay for Powerscribe Mr Big.
Now megagroups have their own PACS and IT departments and pay for their own dictation- which is one reason among others why they don’t make much.-
Believe it or not there were battles fought over who should pay for transcription.
The ACR position statement on transcription clearly states on its Web site that:
[ul][*]Transcription costs for radiology and radiation oncology services are reimbursed under the technical component and are never included in the professional component. The professional component for radiology services paid under the Medicare Physician Fee Schedule (MPFS) is not intended to cover transcription costs.[*]For radiology services provided within hospitals, the transcription costs are part of the hospital cost and not included within the fees set by the MPFS.[*]Medicare pays for a hospitals transcription costs under its inpatient prospective payment system (Diagnosis-related Groups, DRGs) or under its outpatient prospective payment system (Ambulatory Payment Classifications, APCs) as part of the hospital cost reporting system. [ul] Davis recommends that all practices encountering this issue contact and inform the legal staff at the ACR. [/ul] [/ul] [link=https://www.radiologybusiness.com/topics/business-intelligence/thorny-question-who-responsible-transcription-costs]https://www.radiologybusi…le-transcription-costs[/link]
-
I dont care about any of that. My point is that it is not cost effective for PP groups to pay for it out of their own pocket. If it were cost effective, every PP group would be paying for it out of their own pockets. If I had a personal secretary that got me coffee and spoonfed me as I was dictating, that would also make me for productive. Doesnt mean it is cost effective. You can argue that hospitals should pay for it out of technical fee etc. Im not arguing against that. I would support it it were free paid on hospitals dime and coming out of the technical fee. My assertion is simple. All PP groups would have it if cost effective and they would be paying for it out of pocket. Every. Single. One.
If youre one of the lucky ones where your hospital system pays for it, good for you. Some hospitals still provide various other subsidies too. Good for them as well.
-
Back to the number of posts on the ACR job site
Number is high, does not seem to be going any lower, only slowly getting higher. Mostly junk jobs but I’m sure there are winners if you dig.
Any bets on how high it will go and when it will peak?
I only see the number going up for the foreseeable future
-
-
-
-
Quote from sartoriusBIG
No you were supposed to be disputing my assertion that it is not cost effective. But you left when you realized you realized the majority of PP groups dont have it because theyd have to pay for it on their own dime and its not worth it from a financial standpoint for most groups that would have to pay for it out of pocket. I frankly dont care if its faster. If its not viable from a financial standpoint for most groups then its a non-starter. But you dont seem to want to admit that. Must be your pride.
I was not “supposed to” dispute anything. I stated my opinion based on relevant experience.
-
-
-
-
-
Your own dime*
-
Powerscribe with an editor is the best of both worlds. Normal head from the ER just make an edit and hit sign. Complex post op spine or PET-CT, dictate and sign 20min later when it drops into the sign-off queue.
Most of the complaints against live transcription are the result of under-resourced transcription departments or cheapskate admins who farm the work out to the lowest bidder.
-
Yes its great and like the invention of sliced bread. But no private group would pay for that on their own dime. Do you think they would?
-
Quote from sartoriusBIG
Yes its great and like the invention of sliced bread. But no private group would pay for that on their own dime. Do you think they would?
We do.
-
A full transcriptionist or an editor?
-
-
-
Quote from fw
Most of the complaints against live transcription are the result of under-resourced transcription departments or cheapskate admins who farm the work out to the lowest bidder.
None of the negatives I mentioned have anything to do with how well-resourced the transcription department is and are just inherent to the nature of transcription. Our department is extremely well-funded with a chairman well-connected to the hospital admins and gets all the toys and whistles a radiologist could want.-
Signing reports with great transcriptionists is duck soup. Yes, having to communicate urgent results is a pain that I will acknowledge but I happily take that tradeoff. Also, hospital pays for them. Our workflow is optimized for super high volume (not just because of transcriptionists but that is a key facet) — not that everybody does it.
And maybe it’s implied above, but no, I’m not almost a boomer or even close to it. And my accent is American as apple pie. Everybody’s experiences are different and just arbitrarily rejecting them is narrow-minded.-
Doesn’t matter how good the transcriptionist is. You still have to glance through the report while recalling an exam you read quite a few exams ago and make sure there are no discrepancies like a simple missing “no” or “un-” prefix that can change the entire meaning of the report, because no matter how good the transcriptionist is, occasional errors are inevitable. Repeat that x100 or more on a single day especially if you’re on the plain films shift. Much easier to sign off once and forget. And Powerscribe is not slow for me at all. I am one of the young ones only a few years out of practice, so perhaps I’m more computer-savvy than the older rads.
Not to mention, I actually like dictation templates and appreciate why referrers like them. Not really possible to do with transcription.
Like I said, our group is well-funded, and funding had nothing to do with why we made to switch to Powerscribe.-
There is definitely room for small errors like that — which can happen in any format (voice or transcription). Good transcription services will flag discrepencies, blanks, and other errors so that you see them in your queue or somebody doing Q/A gets an email so the report can’t be signed until they are addressed. I haven’t had any recall issues but yes every system has pros/cons. For me, it is super efficient and I’ve played with more than a half dozen dictation software and even more PACS. As always, YMMV.
-
Quote from qxrt
Doesn’t matter how good the transcriptionist is. You still have to glance through the report while recalling an exam you read quite a few exams ago and make sure there are no discrepancies like a simple missing “no” or “un-” prefix that can change the entire meaning of the report, because no matter how good the transcriptionist is, occasional errors are inevitable. Repeat that x100 or more on a single day especially if you’re on the plain films shift. Much easier to sign off once and forget. And Powerscribe is not slow for me at all. I am one of the young ones only a few years out of practice, so perhaps I’m more computer-savvy than the older rads.
Not to mention, I actually like dictation templates and appreciate why referrers like them. Not really possible to do with transcription.
Like I said, our group is well-funded, and funding had nothing to do with why we made to switch to Powerscribe.
When signing reports you do not remember the exams read an hour ago. If a no is missed it will be signed that way. If the transcriptionist didn’t hear it well she may leave a blank. Almost always I could correct a report without looking at the films again. I get the sense you have never used a transcriptionist but know a lot about them.
-
-
-
-
-
-
Correcting reports with Powerscribe is distracting and increases fatigue.
-
The silly Powerscribe errors are things I wish AI can take care of, like inadvertently mentioning wrong side, excluding the word no in Impression, like “No evidence of metastasis” which a human would not make.
Transcriptionists are not coming back but it’s important for Nuance to know that their product is VERY far from achieving its potential.
-
I got into the habit of saying no, then spelling out N O evidence of metastatic disease. It took a while to break that habit when migrating to voice recognition.
Both transcription and Powerscribe can miss a no.
There is a whole new class of powerscribe error called crazy- no decent transcriptionist makes these errors. Whole sentences that are unintelligible for example. This is frustrating.
I was used to skimming reports for blanks when signing with transcriptionists- still trying to break that habit. Powerscribe likes to throw a crazy word in randomly too.
I must read every word!-
True, the transcription error could happen with Powerscribe as well. The difference is, I can visualize and catch the error immediately and fix it easily. When I am signing through a batch of 30-40 or more dictations that the transcriptionist returns, especially oftentimes towards the end of my shift when I just want to go home, it is more annoying to have to re-read the reports for all the studies I finished hours ago than to fix each report in real time as I dictate it.
Context clues sometimes help transcriptionists , but not always. Cases where a sentence sounds just as coherent with or without the “un-” or “no” or other short but important words are common. And these errors may be uncommon, but having to read through every returned report to catch the occasional one is unfortunately time consuming.
I have had plenty experience with transcriptionists and am not talking theoretically. Like I said before, my residency switched from transcriptionists to Powerscribe midway through.-
Quote from qxrt
True, the transcription error could happen with Powerscribe as well. The difference is, I can visualize and catch the error immediately and fix it easily. When I am signing through a batch of 30-40 or more dictations that the transcriptionist returns, especially oftentimes towards the end of my shift when I just want to go home, it is more annoying to have to re-read the reports for all the studies I finished hours ago than to fix each report in real time as I dictate it.
Context clues sometimes help transcriptionists , but not always. Cases where a sentence sounds just as coherent with or without the “un-” or “no” or other short but important words are common. And these errors may be uncommon, but having to read through every returned report to catch the occasional one is unfortunately time consuming.
I have had plenty experience with transcriptionists and am not talking theoretically. Like I said before, my residency switched from transcriptionists to Powerscribe midway through.
I had a nightmare last night about cut off dictations and lost reports. Woke up in a cold sweat. Sliding switch Phillips speech mics tend to wear out and stop turning on and of properly.
Remember the lost cassettes? 90 minutes of dictation, 45 per side. I have heard radiologists scream in anguish when these little things went missing.
-
-
-
-
-
Mr Big stay away from hospital administrators. I don’t want anything bad to happen to you.
beat that dead horse- beat him!-
I call a peak in jobs now.
-
Quote from anonrad454
Any bets on how high it will go and when it will peak?
I only see the number going up for the foreseeable future
Quote from drad123
I call a peak in jobs now.
Someone make sure we check back on this thread in a year.-
I have just as good an idea of when the radiology job market will peak as I do about when the stock market will bottom.
None.
That said, if you were ever looking to switch jobs, now would be a pretty good time. Historically it doesn’t get much better than this market for a combination of compensation, lifestyle, and location.-
The thing is, many of the advertised jobs on ACR may be PE jobs, but there’s almost certainly a correlation with availability of good jobs that aren’t advertised but rather filled through word of mouth. So just because a majority of the rise in job ads are junk isn’t a bad thing, job market wise.
-
Hard to say how things play out. I check the ACR site a few times/month just to get a sense of what’s out there.
Biggest issues in my mind:
1. Economy/stock market and how this influences rad’s decisions to retire or cut-back.
2. Trajectory of P/E in our field
3. Some other random improbable issue that turns out to have a bigger impact (unexpected major AI breakthrough, change in mid-level scope etc)-
Anybody concerned if job market gets too hot, mid level expansion or perhaps foreign reads. could happen?
-
Quote from AKOMAN
Anybody concerned if job market gets too hot, mid level expansion or perhaps foreign reads. could happen?
Mid-level expansion, yes.
Foreign reads, no. Trial attorneys will never let it happen.-
Quote from dergon
Quote from AKOMAN
Anybody concerned if job market gets too hot, mid level expansion or perhaps foreign reads. could happen?
Mid-level expansion, yes.
Foreign reads, no. Trial attorneys will never let it happen.
Trial attorneys dont care as long as there is US based insurance that can be raided.
-
Quote from fw
Quote from dergon
Quote from AKOMAN
Anybody concerned if job market gets too hot, mid level expansion or perhaps foreign reads. could happen?
Mid-level expansion, yes.
Foreign reads, no. Trial attorneys will never let it happen.
Trial attorneys dont care as long as there is US based insurance that can be raided.
I may be wrong but as of now testimony against mid-levels (at least NPs), can only be provided by a mid-level. Nice protection.-
i dont believe theres any evidence of that, although i have heard people say that.
in north carolina their state supreme court says basically that CRNAs cant be held to a standard higher than a regular nurse, even though theyre trained to adminster anesthesia and regular nurses arent, but thats all im aware of.
where else have you seen this argument? -
My general take on mid level malpractice liability is that people just dont seem to see it as a huge money maker, for many reasons. Many tend to go naked and have neither insurance nor a lot of savings / income to go after. Juries are more sympathetic to a poor mid level working in theoretical underserved areas than a rich doctor. And they are held to a lower standard than what they are approved to do, ie held to a standard of nurse even though effectively doing a doctors job – this last point is writ in to law by some states, though even when not the general public and juries have the same feeling I would argue
-
Quote from boggles
i dont believe theres any evidence of that, although i have heard people say that.
in north carolina their state supreme court says basically that CRNAs cant be held to a standard higher than a regular nurse, even though theyre trained to adminster anesthesia and regular nurses arent, but thats all im aware of.
where else have you seen this argument?
If a CRNA cannot be held to a higher standard than an RN, then having a physician testify against them is a moot point. -
yes, but this is only in north carolina
-
Quote from boggles
yes, but this is only in north carolina
I guess one would have to search this issue state by state -
1590 now…Has it ever been higher than 1600?
Im seeing more and more private groups offering pure tele-rad jobs and hybrid tele-rad jobs where one has to spent x amount of weeks on site -
We are having applicants respond to our ads and asking for fully remote positions. Fully remote is the new thing.
-
Tele makes sense.
It no longer works for a new employee radiologist making 300-400k (paying 30-40% out of that just for taxes) to move and live in a big city with 300k in student loans at 5% and 600-800k mortgage loan at 4-5% !! -
Student loans are around 7% if not refinanced.
-
Could it be that job openings are so high because the practice of radiology has become so miserable that more are retiring and going part time?
I saw in the recent Vrad state of the job market report that a higher % of rads are retiring and leaving radiology.
-
Its a macroeconomic development that has to do with the aging baby boomer population. Contrary to the popularly held myth of boomers never retiring, they are in fact retiring en masse. In radiology and in other specialities. And outside of medicine. Demographics of a population dont and cant lie. Yes some are going part time but the list still has to be read and the part timers hangerson are a banddaid on a gaping wound.
Acr jobs board is like 1600. On top of that, Im seeing many PP jobs that even say we do typically advertise
When you see coveted groups starting to advertise you know the market is still good. Even a pending downturn will not be able to stop this job market. It may blunt it but rads will be in a buyers market for the next 10 years easy. Boomers are especially realizing with the pandemic how fragile life can be. The die in the chair mentality of boomers is now only an anecdote that you might hear and not representative of the boomer cohort generally. Look at the job postings in your area. All the lower paid academic jobs are a dime a dozen and havent been filled for months and months. Some places are farming out their studies to telerad like vision radiology etc.
-
-
-
-
-
-
Quote from dergon
I have just as good an idea of when the radiology job market will peak as I do about when the stock market will bottom.
None.
That said, if you were ever looking to switch jobs, now would be a pretty good time. Historically it doesn’t get much better than this market for a combination of compensation, lifestyle, and location.
2000 market was better. Back then most rads were qualified for most jobs. Now most rads are NOT qualified for most rad jobs. Subspecialization created shortages.
-
Recruitment meeting this morning .
We are full steam ahead on continuing to hire as may as we can.-
2000 market was better. Back then most rads were qualified for most jobs. Now most rads are NOT qualified for most rad jobs. Subspecialization created shortages.
Thats a good point.
Back then, partnership jobs were the norm. Outpatient regular hour jobs were available. Small to mid sized groups were everywhere. General radiology was most in demand.
-
Only gonna get worse if we trend toward subspecialty only reads as some people think may happen. It distorts the job market with breast imaging being the best example.
-
The only thing I see denting it is a major worry from the remaining boomer+ when a market correction happens over the next 18 months. The system is so dependent on rads, and lowballs them so much, there is a lot of demand from low supply AND turnover.
The funniest jobs I see currently are VA jobs (otherwise good) that advertise and mention “nights and weekends”. Makes me howl – are those clowns serious?
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Over 1500 now.
My guess is job market is good because the job has become so miserable and non stop that retirements exceed production of rads. Stock market has helped.
