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ACR Jobs posts decline from 1100+ to 800+
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We’re still only at 60-70% normal volume and have no plans to hire.
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Same here, were probably at 70-75% of normal volume, and I could see us not hiring for a year or two at least
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This economy will recover. It may take a while. It may take a period of time. It could stretch through the end of next year. We really dont know.
Federal Reserve chairman Jerome Powell, on [link=https://www.cbsnews.com/news/federal-reserve-chair-jerome-powell-60-minutes-2020-05-15/]60 Minutes[/link].
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Quote from dergon
This economy will recover. It may take a while. It may take a period of time. It could stretch through the end of next year. We really dont know.
Federal Reserve chairman Jerome Powell, on [link=https://www.cbsnews.com/news/federal-reserve-chair-jerome-powell-60-minutes-2020-05-15/]60 Minutes[/link].
What’s funny about the quote you posted is that Fed Reserve Chair is less sure about the length of the recovery than many posting in this thread. It’s because he understands that there are too many uncertain variables with a lack of current data and relevant historical precedent to make an accurate prediction
He also said this: “Assuming there is not a second wave of the coronavirus, I think youll see the economy recover steadily through the second half of this year, the Fed chairman said.[b] [/b][i] [/i][u][/u][strike][/strike]”
[b] [/b][i][/i][u][/u][strike][/strike]
Note also that different sectors in the economy will recover at different rates with health care one of the leading sectors-
Larry Kudlow drops the perma-Bull shtick for just a minute:
Look, its really hard to model a virus, a pandemic, the likes of which we have not seen for 100 years… The numbers coming in are not good. In fact, they are downright bad in most cases. But we are seeing some glimmers, perhaps theres a lot of heartbreak here. Theres a lot of hardship here. Theres a lot of anxiety here. Its a very difficult situation.”
Re the shape of the economic recovery:You can have your own Vs. Theres Vs. There are lesser Vs…There are combos of Us and Vs.
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Healthcare should recover faster than most segments of the economy. The “shape” of the recovery will depend upon how the next couple of months go. A possible “V” will definitely turn into a sad “U” or worse if some of the bigger state economies (CA, NY, IL, PA, NJ) remain closed. I think everyone is hoping from a consumer standpoint that people have “pent up” feelings and money and will over-spend in the 3rd quarter. Unclear if that’s actually true but we will find out.
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That’s some interesting tension in your post. In this thread you’re counting on consumption demand to stimulate economic growth, yet in other threads you make it clear you are opposed to direct payments to workers and expanded unemployment benefits… which is the primary way you stimulate consumption when the unemployment rate is high.
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Consumers are just one part of the economy, and I’m talking about opening economies back to normal > people working > people buying > growing economy again, definitely not just giving people money as we’ve discussed before. The unemployment rate is artificially high due to bad policy decisions regarding a virus with a 99.9% survival rate of working people. It will go back down after all of the economies full open back up.
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So your plan for the economy getting back to normal is to get the economy back to normal.
Got it.
My view on that hands-off approach without further large government intervention is that it would be highly likely to exacerbate the recession and potentially lead to depression.-
I guess we shall see how it plays out this time. Those are the two competing theories since history was written down on stone tablets and papyrus and people argue every time what worked and didn’t.
I think if this were 2008 again and there were problems with the economy itself or if the shutdowns linger into the Late summer/Early fall, then there would need to be some stimulus funding. I’m hopeful that opening up now will work since the foundation of the economy is fine and the problems were artificial/temporary.
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Sure .. they’re temporary. I agee. Once we get a vaccine deployed things will work themselves out fairly quickly.
It’s what happens until then…. And until that points lots of people arent going to have jobs. Even if you magically flipped a switch and said to all those nasty fear-mongering democrats they have to “re-open” and abolished the CDC so that there was no guidance you’d still have less than 50% of the people who lost their jobs recalled in the short term … and the unemployment rate would still be higher than the peak of the great recession. ANd you would still be seeing mortgage/rent/ loan defaults skyrocket to historic levels.
Chairman Powell put it correctly: In order for the economy to fully recover people will have to be fully confident.
Until that happens … vaccine or effective treatment … the economy will be weak and unemployment will be high …. that means enormous need for government support.
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You could be right. I’m hopeful the shutdowns weren’t long enough for a lot of those things to happen. The odds definitely move toward those things happening the longer the shutdowns go.
In all seriousness though, if I had come up to you last Fall and said “hey, dergon, I’m 100% positive there’s going to be a pandemic next Spring and it’s going to infect millions of people in the world. There will be 150k deaths in the US of people who are > 70 and have comorbidities, but the survival rate for healthy working people will be 99.9%. What would you like to do about it?”
Would you have thought the whole country would shut down for that? Would you have thought 30 million unemployed people/25% unemployment, and 3.4 trillion dollars in new govt spending was warranted for it?
I think we should all be asking ourselves these questions. We can’t change what we did in March and April but we can start anew now and do the right things.-
[h1]Nouriel Roubini Sees Depression Ahead[/h1]
Two years before the 2008 financial collapse, economist Nouriel Roubini warned that the U.S. housing market would soon collapse and, quite possibly, bring the global financial system down with it, [link=https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/05/why-the-economy-is-headed-for-a-post-coronavirus-depression-nouriel-roubini.html]New York magazine[/link] reports.
A decade later, Dr. Doom is a bear once again. While many investors bet on a V-shaped recovery, Roubini is staking his reputation on an L-shaped depression. The economist (and host of a biweekly economic news broadcast) does expect things to get better before they get worse: He foresees a slow, lackluster (i.e., U-shaped) economic rebound in the pandemics immediate aftermath. But he insists that this recovery will quickly collapse beneath the weight of the global economys accumulated debts.
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Quote from dergon
[h1]Nouriel Roubini Sees Depression Ahead[/h1]
Two years before the 2008 financial collapse, economist Nouriel Roubini warned that the U.S. housing market would soon collapse and, quite possibly, bring the global financial system down with it, [link=https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/05/why-the-economy-is-headed-for-a-post-coronavirus-depression-nouriel-roubini.html]New York magazine[/link] reports.A decade later, Dr. Doom is a bear once again. While many investors bet on a V-shaped recovery, Roubini is staking his reputation on an L-shaped depression. The economist (and host of a biweekly economic news broadcast) does expect things to get better before they get worse: He foresees a slow, lackluster (i.e., U-shaped) economic rebound in the pandemics immediate aftermath. But he insists that this recovery will quickly collapse beneath the weight of the global economys accumulated debts.
Roubini is consistently predicting negative things will happen without a timeline, which is an obvious prediction as he knows that historically there has been a recession and stock bear market about every 6 years. This is equal to stating that there will eventually be rain. He also has consistently missed positive developments in the economy and stock market. This is equal to not stating that there will be sunshine. [b] [/b][i][/i][u][/u][strike][/strike]As such his one sided predictions have no utility other than for encouraging fear, which has caused people that follow him to lose huge amounts of money in opportunity cost if they followed his bearish predictions. Most people that listen to him have a confirmation bias to negativity rather than a neutral or positive outlook.-
I do worry about the debt. This monetary policy and new theory of money seems like smoke and mirrors. Worried US will eventually be unable to pay the piper, China, who holds a large amount of our debt. Will China replace the US as the largest economy?
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National debt is the amount of money the US government created and hasn’t removed from circulation via taxation. If all the debt were “paid off” there would be no more money and the economy would grind to a halt from a subsequent barter system until another currency is established in the market.
Money supply has to grow as an economy grows to let transactions to occur with minimal friction. The problem is the money is created via bond issuance when accounting principles don’t actually work for fiat currency. It’s impossible to pay off that debt as the interest accruing means by definition more debt has to be issued to create more money to pay it off. It just compounds until inflation (money supply outgrowing demand) grows too fast. They really need to get rid of that ridiculous accounting practice as it means nothing other than compounding inflation/money supply.
I also worry about the debt as it’s growing too fast and the asset inflation it will cause.-
ACR job listings hit 1000 today, now at 1001. During the pandemic, it went down as low as the mid 600s.
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Getting recruiter texts and phone calls multiple times a day now. Complete $hit locums jobs with low pay, but it’s a start. This is how it was right before COVID hit. Seems like the job market is just starting to recover, but it’ll take another year or so for salaries to start to go up.
Quote from IGotKids2Feed
ACR job listings hit 1000 today, now at 1001. During the pandemic, it went down as low as the mid 600s.
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Salaries won’t go up unless and until people
a. Laugh in the face of shit salary offers
b. Leave jobs with shitty salaries for higher paying ones.
Of the two reasons listed above, IMHO the latter is more important AND unfortunately less likely to occur.
Quote from W.N.
Getting recruiter texts and phone calls multiple times a day now. Complete $hit locums jobs with low pay, but it’s a start. This is how it was right before COVID hit. Seems like the job market is just starting to recover, but it’ll take another year or so for salaries to start to go up.
Quote from IGotKids2Feed
ACR job listings hit 1000 today, now at 1001. During the pandemic, it went down as low as the mid 600s.
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Looks like stock market has become “bearish ” after Biden’s election and approval of 1.9 trillion stimulus package, so older folks can’t go part time or retire unless they have well performing private investments. If people are not leaving radiology, corp salaries won’t go up much.
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Quote from Voxel77
Looks like stock market has become “bearish ” after Biden’s election and approval of 1.9 trillion stimulus package, so older folks can’t go part time or retire unless they have well performing private investments. If people are not leaving radiology, corp salaries won’t go up much.
The market is up like 15-20 percent since November when he was elected. How exactly is that bearish?
The stimulus inflates the stock market.
If older rads who worked through golden ages are really dependent on market returns at this stage in their career after this recent bull run of the last like 10 years, they have terrible saving and investing habits and that is pretty pathetic IMO. -
Quote from IR27
Quote from Voxel77
Looks like stock market has become “bearish ” after Biden’s election and approval of 1.9 trillion stimulus package, so older folks can’t go part time or retire unless they have well performing private investments. If people are not leaving radiology, corp salaries won’t go up much.
The market is up like 15-20 percent since November when he was elected. How exactly is that bearish?
The stimulus inflates the stock market.
[b]If older rads who worked through golden ages are really dependent on market returns at this stage in their career after this recent bull run of the last like 10 years, they have terrible saving and investing habits and that is pretty pathetic IMO. [/b]
Retirement goalposts keep moving for various reasons. If medicare age is dropped to 60 I could see some start to retire. For others that have reached FI and still work, its presumably bc they enjoy the work and its not too demanding. Past year or so Ive heard handful of older rads saying they could retire if they wanted/needed to but none have. -
Right and thats fine, I don’t fault anyone for working for enjoyment/because they love it.
but if you worked as a rad for the last 20 years and didn’t amass a ton of money in the setting of one of the greatest bull runs in history, that’s on you. it also results in screwing over new rads because of old rads laziness/foolish choices -
Quote from IR27
it also results in screwing over new rads because of old rads laziness/foolish choices
Well said “young Turk”
Just remember when you hit that age -
Quote from Voxel77
Looks like stock market has become “bearish ” after Biden’s election and approval of 1.9 trillion stimulus package
Huh?
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Quote from Voxel77
Looks like stock market has become “bearish ” after Biden’s election and approval of 1.9 trillion stimulus package, so older folks can’t go part time or retire unless they have well performing private investments. If people are not leaving radiology, corp salaries won’t go up much.
Even if you ignore the market gains since Biden’s election and only count the time since he took office in mid-January, the S&P is still up 3.25% since he took office on January 20. Makes no sense to call the market “bearish” right now. -
Quote from qxrt
Quote from Voxel77
Looks like stock market has become “bearish ” after Biden’s election and approval of 1.9 trillion stimulus package, so older folks can’t go part time or retire unless they have well performing private investments. If people are not leaving radiology, corp salaries won’t go up much.
Even if you ignore the market gains since Biden’s election and only count the time since he took office in mid-January, the S&P is still up 3.25% since he took office on January 20. Makes no sense to call the market “bearish” right now.
[link=https://thehill.com/policy/finance/546015-sp-500-passes-4000-for-first-time]S&P 500 passes 4,000 for first time[/link]
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Quote from qxrt
Quote from Voxel77
Looks like stock market has become “bearish ” after Biden’s election and approval of 1.9 trillion stimulus package, so older folks can’t go part time or retire unless they have well performing private investments. If people are not leaving radiology, corp salaries won’t go up much.
Even if you ignore the market gains since Biden’s election and only count the time since he took office in mid-January, the S&P is still up 3.25% since he took office on January 20. Makes no sense to call the market “bearish” right now.
QE only goes into particular assets, and the equities market is one of the few. The future of the real economy is bad and getting worse under Weekend at Joe’s, and he’ll put the death blow in it (or should I say Deep State puppet Obama will) when he replaces Powell with another clown leftist appointee. Then the Federal Reserve Act will be up to manipulation and you’ll see real inflation, everywhere, not just rich people’s goods or stocks. -
Not us, but did you all see the apocalyptic report about emergency med positions by the end of the decade? Conservative estimate ACEP is 9k more physicians than positions.
Now most of those will be grads from the crappy hca residencies that have blown up in the last five years that nobody will want to hire, but that’s a rad onc style collapse.
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Quote from knightrider
Salaries won’t go up unless and until people
a. Laugh in the face of **** salary offers
b. Leave jobs with ****ty salaries for higher paying ones.
Of the two reasons listed above, IMHO the latter is more important AND unfortunately less likely to occur.
Quote from W.N.
Getting recruiter texts and phone calls multiple times a day now. Complete $hit locums jobs with low pay, but it’s a start. This is how it was right before COVID hit. Seems like the job market is just starting to recover, but it’ll take another year or so for salaries to start to go up.
Quote from IGotKids2Feed
ACR job listings hit 1000 today, now at 1001. During the pandemic, it went down as low as the mid 600s.
This is so true. It saddens me to talk with so many residents and young attendings who don’t know their worth and are willing to take crap jobs for crap pay just to live in X location or to not have to move from fellowship spot, etc. The Corps know this and laugh themselves to sleep at night (some academic places do it too). -
Quote from CaptainWaffles
Not us, but did you all see the apocalyptic report about emergency med positions by the end of the decade? Conservative estimate ACEP is 9k more physicians than positions.
Now most of those will be grads from the crappy hca residencies that have blown up in the last five years that nobody will want to hire, but that’s a rad onc style collapse.
I have no take, just skeptical. That’s a high burnout field that is in need, but they got Private Equity’d a while ago, maybe the first and most abused. They always claim things so they can either a) get an eventual oversupply to lowball or b) claim there are too many, and drop salaries drastically (as here).-
they’re projecting oversupply, not a shortage. Tons of students opting for ED with the lifestyle flexibilities afforded and programs popping up everywhere
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Residency spots associated with HCA alone have increased the total number of spots by 50% in the last 5 years, it’s unreal
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Not to mention the mid levels infiltrating and taking jobs away from ER
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This is an excerpt from AAEM:
AAEM/RSA supports the multi-organizational effort being organized and suggests four key interventions be taken in order to adequately address the security of our specialty and safety of our patients.
[ol][*]We must purge our specialty societies from the influence and funding from corporate entities. This conflict of interest has prevailed in our largest organizations and prevented the adequate advocacy and security to acknowledge the issues we are now facing, as they evolved. False narratives have led to delays in combating both the over-expansion of EM residency programs by CMGs and corporate hospital groups, and the expanding scope of practice of midlevel providers.[*]We must have a moratorium on new EM residency training programs and address the ACGMEs longtime inaction in prohibiting corporate entities from opening and funding EM residency training programs. AAEM/RSA believes that the ACGME has been complacent in allowing the significant oversupply of EM physicians. The substandard training requirements have and continue to be exploited by corporate entities to produce programs of questionable quality. The commandeering of medical training for cheap labor and to influence supply and demand economics by these profit driven corporations has been a significant factor in resident oversupply. We must demand the ACGME not only make requirements more stringent for future programs, but hold a moratorium on all new residency program applications until these issues are addressed.[*]We must end all NP and PA “fellowships and begin to replace non-physicians with physicians. NPs and PAs have historically been physician extenders during a time of physician shortage. Without this shortage, there is no longer a need for physician extension through the use of midlevel providers, and the most qualified individual to care for patients should do so. We must not give priority to non-physicians, in education or in department jobs, when there exists a market of thousands of graduating EM physicians who do not have employment opportunities and are significantly more qualified to fill these patient care roles.[*]We must formally consider broad unionization of EM physicians. The considerable control of contract management groups and corporate entities on our profession has and continues to erode multiple facets of our profession. Their ability to significantly influence the specialty, including by manipulating the workforce and undermining our duty as physicians through replacement with NPPs, must be halted. Unionization may be the only feasible option to having a stronger independent voice within the corporate practice of emergency medicine. As emergency medicine becomes increasingly controlled by corporate entities, unionization may be the only measure in ensuring the needs and protections of emergency physicians. [/ol]-
HCA has a few radiology residencies now (4 I think). Hopefully they don’t open any more
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Are there any specific requirements in order to open up a radiology residency? I feel like for EM its easy all you need is an ED
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Probably the biggest hold ups would be the framework and documentation for adequate nucs and mammo since those are the biggest program headaches from year to year.
It also has to be profitable for a system like hca. It works for EM because they can use residents as cheap staffing at free standing er sites. I’d assume the results are less impressive when you take decidedly non academic rads working in a crappy HCA sweatshop jobs and then tell them they have to now teach as well.
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Wow, didnt realize EM was circling the drain… highlights the dangers of Corp control of a field – might be a glimpse in the future of Rads.
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We should take lessons from what is happening to EM and be proactive, apparently the ACEP is in bed with the corps and is a big reason for the over-expansion. Whatre your guyss opinions on the ACR, Does they lobby for and protect actual practicing radiologists?
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Quote from Mh0311
We should take lessons from what is happening to EM and be proactive, apparently the ACEP is in bed with the corps and is a big reason for the over-expansion. [b]Whatre your guyss opinions on the ACR, Does they lobby for and protect actual practicing radiologists?[/b]
HAHAHAHAHA! Oh wait, you’re serious….? -
Im starting my prelim year in July so I dont know whos in the field, if I can do something to support an organization that advocates for us Ill do that rather than sit on my ass and wait for the inevitable
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1136 today, back to pre COVID levels
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Quote from IGotKids2Feed
1136 today, back to pre COVID levels
Always better to practice radiology with a nice tailwind.
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What % of those are corporate?
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[h2][size=”3″]Radpartners[/size][/h2] [h2][size=”3″]2,800 +Radiologists[/size][/h2] [size=”3″] 3,400 Sites [/size]
[size=”3″] 33 States [/size]
[size=”3″] 39M Cases per year [/size]
[size=”3″] 140 Imaging centers [/size] -
I want to know what kind of thoughts you must have to voluntarily work for RP. Crazy.
Shootin ourselves in the foot. -
Quote from Cubsfan10
I want to know what kind of thoughts you must have to voluntarily work for RP. Crazy.
Shootin ourselves in the foot.
Rads don’t have much power or control. You learn this after a few years in the business.
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Quote from Cubsfan10
I want to know what kind of thoughts you must have to voluntarily work for RP. Crazy.
Shootin ourselves in the foot.
Great question. Hard to imagine how work doesn’t s*ck balls each day. Even if one manages to hit the high RVU expectation, they still don’t get paid for doing so. Plus no upward mobility, dead end job. Sounds pretty soul-crushing. Guess it takes a certain type of temperament to tolerate this.
Also wonder out of all rads in P/E, what % are new recruits and what % are still the sell-outs that need to stick around due to inability to recruit. -
Quote from drad123
[h2][size=”3″]Radpartners[/size][/h2] [h2][size=”3″]2,800 +Radiologists[/size][/h2] [size=”3″] 3,400 Sites [/size]
[size=”3″] 33 States [/size]
[size=”3″] 39M Cases per year [/size]
[size=”3″] 140 Imaging centers [/size]I still don’t understand how they stay in business
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Quote from knightrider
Quote from drad123
[h2][size=”3″]Radpartners[/size][/h2] [h2][size=”3″]2,800 +Radiologists[/size][/h2] [size=”3″] 3,400 Sites [/size]
[size=”3″] 33 States [/size]
[size=”3″] 39M Cases per year [/size]
[size=”3″] 140 Imaging centers [/size]I still don’t understand how they stay in business
They have to somehow pay enough to retain/recruit, yet still increase value of the company by skimming pro fee’s. Are they so large that they are negotiating great reimbursements with private insurers? -
Unlikely. Their practice buyouts were funded by huge loans which havent come due yet
They still have their core radiologists whose buyouts havent vested and are filling in miscellaneous necessary positions by overpaying on site staffing and remote rads who are fine being underpaid as long as they can work from home.
I actually think they could survive if most traditional jobs dont become more flexibility with remote work
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Unlikely. Their practice buyouts were funded by huge loans which havent come due yet
They still have their core radiologists whose buyouts havent vested and are filling in miscellaneous necessary positions by overpaying on site staffing and remote rads who are fine being underpaid as long as they can work from home.
I actually think they could survive if most traditional jobs dont become more flexible with remote work
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1243 as of right now
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Quote from AngryBirds
Unlikely. Their practice buyouts were funded by huge loans which havent come due yet
They still have their core radiologists whose buyouts havent vested and are filling in miscellaneous necessary positions by overpaying on site staffing and remote rads who are fine being underpaid as long as they can work from home.
I actually think they could survive if most traditional jobs dont become more flexible with remote work
Any states/cities with large P/E practices that can act as bellwethers in the near future? -
1312
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Quote from IGotKids2Feed
1136 today, back to pre COVID levels
1000 x dung is the same as 100 x dung. Its still dung.
I occasionally scroll through the job listings for the gaggle of states where I am licensed and its a wasteland for good jobs out there. Take away the BEST PAYING TELE JOB EVA WITH STATRAD AND WORK IN YOUR JAMMIES ads that are posted in every state, take away the practice in TX that posts the same job in the same location 10x. Then look at all the academic ads that are only posted to comply with some EEOC/FDA/DIA/HHS requirement but advertise a job that is already taken. There is very little in actual jobs in that pile of dung on the ACR site. -
Quote from fw
Quote from IGotKids2Feed
1136 today, back to pre COVID levels
1000 x dung is the same as 100 x dung. Its still dung.
I occasionally scroll through the job listings for the gaggle of states where I am licensed and its a wasteland for good jobs out there. Take away the BEST PAYING TELE JOB EVA WITH STATRAD AND WORK IN YOUR JAMMIES ads that are posted in every state, take away the practice in TX that posts the same job in the same location 10x. Then look at all the academic ads that are only posted to comply with some EEOC/FDA/DIA/HHS requirement but advertise a job that is already taken. There is very little in actual jobs in that pile of dung on the ACR site.
This is true but still better than when I completed training around 2013 when ACR had about 200-250 postings, mostly for non-partnership PP jobs that traditionally had a partnership tract. Back then could even get a recruiter on the phone, now it’s daily calls, texts, emails.
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Quote from Mh0311
Whatre your guys opinions on the ACR?
Do they lobby for and protect actual practicing radiologists?
I am not an insider and as I get later in my career I spend less time worrying about what the ACR is up to.
But I know they are aware of the potential issues around consolidation
[link=https://www.acr.org/-/media/ACR/Files/RLI/Kickstart-Your-Career/Corporatization_Lexa.pdf]https://www.acr.org/-/med…rporatization_Lexa.pdf[/link]
That said, conflicts of interest have been exposed in the past (see also James Thrall/ Count Dooko and Imaging Advantage). It would not surprise me at all to learn that ACR leadership was in bed with Rad Partners etc.
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^^ very true fw.
Take away nighthawk jobs, 2nd shift employee jobs, corporate, academic takeovers of community hospitals, fellowship requirements you dont have, and many states have 0-2 jobs open.
When I finished 15 yrs ago, it was mostly private jobs and more general. Those 5-15 rad private groups are a dying breed. The outpatient jobs that existed at that time are nearly gone.
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More volume than readers. Rads job market is following US job market in labor shortage.
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Rural practices will suffer no doubt. Unless they are big money. Which usually means being a general rad that reads everything including mammo and cranks out high volumes. Good luck finding that fellow lol.
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Quote from Umichfan
Rural practices will suffer no doubt. Unless they are big money. Which usually means being a general rad that reads everything including mammo and cranks out high volumes. Good luck finding that fellow lol.
If only there were a way for them to hire people remotely….
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Is the job market actually good ? Seems to me a lot of the jobs are overnight, Corp or telerad
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I do nights.
Amongst nights, there is a spectrum. Some jobs are good, others are terrible.
Bad jobs are plentiful and good jobs Are few and far between BUT when there are this many total jobs posted, there probably are a few gems mixed in.
ACR is where I found my excellent job.
Never worked corporate, never seemed worth it
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Do you define a good tele job as basically good money/rvu or salary and reasonable hours/off time or is there more to it?
Do you think theyre are good Corp tele jobs or not really because of the precious factors mentioned?
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I am also curious as to what defines a good tele job or a good nights job?
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I have what I would call a good nights job. There has been 0 turnover in the department for 3 years. From the start they said I would be treated as a full member of the department and theyve done everything they could to make me feel that way. Base salary is excellent plus RVU bonus (which takes some sting out of the volume). Tertiary care is a plus for me because it keeps things interesting and my skills sharp. Best part is a hard stop time. They trust me to read as fast as I can and when the clock hits quitting time Im done.
I interviewed for a not good night position and they kept bringing up how good I would have it with all the time off. They said there was no way they could offer parter if I was only working 1/3 the year. I would have been responsible for cleaning the am icu plain films. They never filled my position and had the other night guys left shortly after I interviewed.
7 on 14 off is a great deal but its not heaven. Should be apparent by the turnover most of these positions have. My group did it correctly by making us feel like part of the group and not just the night crew.
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How many hours are your nights ?
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Hours?
Volume?
Modality mix?
Prelim vs Final for some studies?
On site vs remote?
Procedures?I think someone in-house who could do basic procedures; put finals on most studies with an occasional prelim would be invaluable and certainly warrant partnership.
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Remote readers on the other hand are a commodity. Plenty of eager beavers at low cost. No need for partnership. Many groups will use em until they find a better or cheaper option. Thats the reality.
With the apparent current shortage of rads, maybe have to pay more. Fair enough. But will be at the mercy of the market. That aint no fun.
Having that rad inhouse babysitting the department is worth a lot!!
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Is the job market actually good ? Seems to me a lot of the jobs are overnight, Corp or telerad
Yes good, but for mostly bad jobs like you mention.
These corporate and employee type jobs skim your salary and increase your volume requirements. Many are true sweat shops.
Radiology is not a sustainable healthy career for the long run in my opinion given the current trends of higher volumes, work hours, more images/case, and loss of autonomy.
And its only going to get worse if mid levels get more involved. AI will cause a collapse.
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Well maybe people should advertise the awesome jobs that are out there.
If you’re looking for a job with a true PP (no PE and never will be), shareholder/partner after 1 year, >90th percentile pay, 12 weeks vacation, and continued growth/expansion then PM me. Internal night/tele positions, daytime remote/tele, general, and subspecialty positions (neuro, msk, body, IR) are available. Midwest location.-
^^ there are private jobs out there but you will likely have to move somewhere you dont want to live and face a high risk of it going bad (corporate, hospital employed, etc).
Then youll be in a location where you wouldnt want to live and have a bad job. Then the radiology job market will go bad like it does every decade or so and youll be stuck.
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There are a ton of cool places to live; plenty in the Midwest. Open your hearts.
Exmetropolis inhabitant.
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^^ maybe but some of us have friends, families, kids in school that tie us to an area. Moving for a job, especially these days is not worth it.
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If you go into details of the jobs, most of them are corporate jobs.
I don’t know what will happen but if the current trend continues, the corporate radiology may lose the game. And I hope so.
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Unfortunately the Radiology job market is highly cyclical. It will crater again soon enough for a 5-10 year stretch and all those jobs will have takers. It happens like clockwork.
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There are jobs like Cubsfan posted in coastal areas. You wont even have to move for it.
You just need flounce like pedigree.
Alternative you can have Flounces job if you are willing to move a bit.
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Quote from Hospital-Rad
If you go into details of the jobs, most of them are corporate jobs.
I don’t know what will happen but if the current trend continues, the corporate radiology may lose the game. And I hope so.
No one’s signing up for shit jobs – that’s a good thing.
The work is there – anecdotally, that seems to be true across the board whenever I speak to any of my colleagues anywhere in the country.
Unless there is an alien / nuclear attack reducing the population
OR
doctors and noctors stop ordering as many studies
OR
people stop going to the doctor,
I’m not sure if/how/when we will have a downturn. Was the 6 mo COVID / post covid period the downturn that we all feared and now we’re on the rebound. Who knows?
But for now, the getting is great, so get on it and get some.-
Elective procedures came to a screeching halt in March, 2020.
Now… dont see this happening nearly as much, at least not yet. Too much pent up demand. -
Quote from IGotKids2Feed
Elective procedures came to a screeching halt in March, 2020.
Now… dont see this happening nearly as much, at least not yet. Too much pent up demand.
It’s not clear how much this wave will effect each individual area as one would need to factor in the vaccination rate, prior covid in the population, weather, masks/social distancing, … but this is the wave of the unvaccinated. After this wave most will be either previously infected and/or vaccinated so it likely will be an epidemic rather than a pandemic infection in the USA. This will minimize further large scale societal disruptions. This wave is also likely to peak in September – October based on its velocity. So I don’t see this wave derailing the job market long term. -
As someone who looks at the job board every day since I’m at a job I’m still debating on staying at, the vast majority of jobs don’t seem all that great even as the numbers grow. So if anyone knows of good groups needing MSK rads and doesn’t mind chatting abut it, please send a PM!
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Quote from IGotKids2Feed
Elective procedures came to a screeching halt in March, 2020.
Now… dont see this happening nearly as much, at least not yet. Too much pent up demand.
There may be short term perturbations, but the overall, unabating trend is up and to the right.
Quote from It’s Never Sunny In Radiology
As someone who looks at the job board every day since I’m at a job I’m still debating on staying at, the vast majority of jobs don’t seem all that great even as the numbers grow. So if anyone knows of good groups needing MSK rads and doesn’t mind chatting abut it, please send a PM!
If you’re absolutely thrilled, always be applying – you never know what may pop up.
IE The best time to look for a job is when you have one – you have the power to turn down stuff you don’t want and ask for what you want. -
1293
By my rough count, 21 of the first 50 jobs are either RP or Radnet – the actual count may be higher…
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Quote from Waduh Dong
Unfortunately the Radiology job market is highly cyclical. It will crater again soon enough for a 5-10 year stretch and all those jobs will have takers. It happens like clockwork.
We just started the demand rads > supply rads cycle pre covid so the uptrending cycle can last for years too.-
Quote from JTG
Quote from Waduh Dong
Unfortunately the Radiology job market is highly cyclical. It will crater again soon enough for a 5-10 year stretch and all those jobs will have takers. It happens like clockwork.
We just started the demand rads > supply rads cycle pre covid so the uptrending cycle can last for years too.
Yeah. Hard to know exactly when the pendulum will swing, but I would say we are about 6 years into the radiology job market expansion at this point Started getting better about 2015-2016.
Could easily be a bull market for another 5 or so years. (Could crater tomorrow too )-
At the risk of saying this time is different, there has never been PE/corporate radiology in the mix like there is now. So we might be in uncharted waters as far as radiology job cycles are concerned
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I think what he means is 2 marketable fellowships, which Flounce has, + a team work positive attitude and flexibility, which I think Flounce has expressed here over the years. I do not know what fellowships Flounce has but I would guess Breast Imaging and Body Imaging.
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Quote from MSK/SW
I think what he means is 2 marketable fellowships, which Flounce has, + a team work positive attitude and flexibility, which I think Flounce has expressed here over the years. I do not know what fellowships Flounce has but I would guess Breast Imaging and Body Imaging.
MSK and breast I believe.
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Breast and neuro. Im always reading about breast rads reading temporal bone CTs, MR Brain perfusion, & MR IACs in his practice. Those 2 fellowships would make those tasks a little easier.
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Flounce’s practice is not what you guys think and is not what he pictures here. It is his positive attitude that makes him happy and not his practice. You will be surprised if you find out about his practice setup.
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We can’t even get some neuro people to pick up tbones without coercion
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Quote from CaptainWaffles
We can’t even get some neuro people to pick up tbones without coercion
Why, because of the effort/RVU ratio? What’s the wRVU for a CT t bone anyway? Should be more than an MRI brain but wouldn’t be surprised if it’s not because the whole RVU system is… well, you know….-
Narrow fov and c- so I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re less than a head CT.
A lot of the resistance is because a local ent group kicks over their own in house cone beams for a read. Low resolution, motion degraded studies so good luck finding the early spongiosis then throw in worthless histories and no clinical documents and it’s an rvu loser. Don’t even get a tech screening form to know when their surgery was.
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Will consolidation and radiology doomsday come sooner than later with the advent of all of this medical and farcial bureaucratic madness currently in our political system?
I still think it is a ways off but who could have guessed that doctors are this foolish and anti-science and anti-medicine, all you have to do is look on this board. They want to put a star on healthy people’s shoulders who don’t want an experimental therapy, or even worse. In that kind of system, where doctors have even lost their mind, I imagine anything is possible.-
I’m glad blasting is back. I haven’t heard from him in awhile
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Quote from Galatian
I’m glad blasting is back. I haven’t heard from him in awhile
It’s not easy coming back and seeing the same foolishness, but I try once in a while to provide a fresh take on reality, not delusion.
Thanks bro -
I dont see a lot of great deals on the ACR site. Lots of RP and Corp jobs and off hour / overnight gigs. Where are all the good jobs ?
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Yeah, tele is great, driving the profession to the bottom.
Grownups who show up, own and manage practices are disappearing.
Remote readers in their pjs working for someone else, and sheet at the sight of a patient or needle will be the professions demise.
Too many radiologists are entitled weasels who overestimate their value.
The future is bleak.
Its hard to watch.
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Quote from boomer
Yeah, tele is great, driving the profession to the bottom.
[b]Grownups who show up, own and manage practices are disappearing. [/b]
Remote readers in their pjs working for someone else, and sheet at the sight of a patient or needle will be the professions demise.
Too many radiologists are entitled weasels who overestimate their value.
There is a difference between a radiologist as a physician and a remote film reader. Unfortunately, the former is vanishing due to many factors and the latter is becoming the norm. -
As anyone who has watched the evolution and current state of radiology, Teleradiology will become the dominant state of our field, allowing most to live throughout the country at their desired locations (even academic groups are recruiting throughout the country, e.g. Univ of Colorado, Northwell, etc, for subspecialized daily reads (not er rads)
Ultimately, will drive down reimbursement given competitive forces but may drive up reimbursement for proceduralists, given many rads lack of training, hesitance, and desire for much easier tele job. -
^^ Or they will attempt to train noctors to do the on-site stuff.
Midlevels staff the department and everything else read by telerad.
Not a great model for the future of the field imo, but it may be the future.
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Quote from Hospital-Rad
Flounce’s practice is not what you guys think and is not what he pictures here. It is his positive attitude that makes him happy and not his practice. You will be surprised if you find out about his practice setup.
I imagine there are not too many “good practices” in So Cal metro areas. Kaiser might be the best.
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Quote from Umichfan
Breast and neuro. Im always reading about breast rads reading temporal bone CTs, MR Brain perfusion, & MR IACs in his practice. Those 2 fellowships would make those tasks a little easier.
Pretty sure MSK, particularly given his username (meniscal flounce), but could be wrong. Regardless I think its the combo of breast fellowship/experience in breast imaging + whatever additional fellowship + ability/willingness to take call shifts, that makes one marketable.
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Quote from boomer
Yeah, tele is great, driving the profession to the bottom.
[b]Grownups who show up, own and manage practices are disappearing.[/b]
[b] [/b]Is this a joke? No boomer boss I’ve ever had has asked for my input or help with any sort of management. No one, and I mean NO ONE (including myself), coming out of residency knows the first thing about billing, referrals, PACS, managing a practice, etc etc. If a small fraction of grads don’t know something, you can put it on them. If no one does, it’s on the system, the one the boomers are running.
Remote readers in their pjs working for someone else, and sheet at the sight of a patient or needle will be the professions demise.
Guess who started farming out reads to remote readers?
Too many radiologists are entitled weasels who overestimate their value.
I see your point pot”…
The future is bleak.
Its hard to watch.
Maybe, but you’re the cause.
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Yeah the Rad boomer generation deserves a lot of the blame. Greedy
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Its comical to blame millennials for the fall of radiology. Boomers have had the reigns for 20 years, and they still have them
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Quote from RoleCall
Its comical to blame millennials for the fall of radiology. Boomers have had the reigns for 20 years, and they still have them
Neither is to blame. Blame technology. Radiology is in the throes of Schumpeter’s creative destruction.
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Quote from drad123
Quote from RoleCall
Its comical to blame millennials for the fall of radiology. Boomers have had the reigns for 20 years, and they still have them
Neither is to blame. Blame technology. Radiology is in the throes of Schumpeter’s creative destruction.
Technology has played a role, but the selling practices to PE or hospitals isn’t because of the tech, it’s because of god awful shitty governance.
The technological revolution allowed that to be a possibility, but the actual decisions are still made by people. Those in charge chose to play a Scrooge McDuck role and cash out on our profession and our patients rather than a caretaker role and groom the next generation to succeed.-
Quote from knightrider
Quote from drad123
Quote from RoleCall
Its comical to blame millennials for the fall of radiology. Boomers have had the reigns for 20 years, and they still have them
Neither is to blame. Blame technology. Radiology is in the throes of Schumpeter’s creative destruction.
Technology has played a role, but the selling practices to PE or hospitals isn’t because of the tech, it’s because of god awful ****ty governance.
The technological revolution allowed that to be a possibility, but the actual decisions are still made by people. Those in charge chose to play a Scrooge McDuck role and cash out on our profession and our patients rather than a caretaker role and groom the next generation to succeed.
Did governance recently change? Did I miss something?
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Quote from drad123
Quote from knightrider
Quote from drad123
Quote from RoleCall
Its comical to blame millennials for the fall of radiology. Boomers have had the reigns for 20 years, and they still have them
Neither is to blame. Blame technology. Radiology is in the throes of Schumpeter’s creative destruction.
Technology has played a role, but the selling practices to PE or hospitals isn’t because of the tech, it’s because of god awful ****ty governance.
The technological revolution allowed that to be a possibility, but the actual decisions are still made by people. Those in charge chose to play a Scrooge McDuck role and cash out on our profession and our patients rather than a caretaker role and groom the next generation to succeed.
Did governance recently change? Did I miss something?
IDK what you mean by “recently”, but in the “good old days” partnership meant something and associates got hired with the (bilateral) intention of becoming partners.
One could actually go out, hang a shingle, and open a practice…
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Quote from RoleCall
Its comical to blame millennials for the fall of radiology. Boomers have had the reigns for 20 years, and they still have them
The new graduates have different mindsets than the old generation. They give priority to lifestyle, hours of working and things like burnout. Working from home is a new paradigm that they value a lot.
In the last 10-15 years a complete BS has been promulgated by pep-psychology, self-help crap and media that a job needs to be fun. I am not saying that a job should be torture but a job is a job. It is not vacation and it is not a hobby. It can be very rewarding but should not be fun and doesn’t need to be comfortable. It is A JOB.
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As a millennial, I reject your bias.
I have a lot of fun at work, especially doing procedures, which I do more of than most of my boomer colleagues. And you are correct, I do value my lifestyle and want to avoid burnout.
Not a job for me. It’s a career which I enjoy. I’ll do it until I can’t, but I’ll gain financial independence first and it will be on my terms.
At best, I have 50 good years left on this earth. If I can stop grinding by age 40, why wouldn’t I?
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Quote from Hospital-Rad
Quote from RoleCall
Its comical to blame millennials for the fall of radiology. Boomers have had the reigns for 20 years, and they still have them
The new graduates have different mindsets than the old generation. They give priority to lifestyle, hours of working and things like burnout. Working from home is a new paradigm that they value a lot.
In the last 10-15 years a complete BS has been promulgated by pep-psychology, self-help crap and media that a job needs to be fun. I am not saying that a job should be torture but a job is a job. It is not vacation and it is not a hobby. It can be very rewarding but should not be fun and doesn’t need to be comfortable. It is A JOB.
Buffett’s business partner Charlie Munger has long been aware of the power of incentives: [b]Show me the incentive and I will show you the outcome.[/b]
MBA boomers took away all agency and incentive for younger rads to grind; we’re no longer partners (maybe “rad partners,” but not actual partners).
We don’t control staff, protocols, scheduling, finances, billing, etc etc etc. We’re told to shut up and ask for more.
A job is a job; an employee does not treat the workplace the same way a business owner does…
Did they (you?) expect people to keep grinding when there’s no pay off?-
Quote from knightrider
Buffett’s business partner Charlie Munger has long been aware of the power of incentives: [b]Show me the incentive and I will show you the outcome.[/b]
MBA boomers took away all agency and incentive for younger rads to grind; we’re no longer partners (maybe “rad partners,” but not actual partners).
We don’t control staff, protocols, scheduling, finances, billing, etc etc etc. We’re told to shut up and ask for more.
A job is a job; an employee does not treat the workplace the same way a business owner does…
Did they (you?) expect people to keep grinding when there’s no pay off?
If you feel that your job does not pay off, then you are in the wrong field. Playing victim is never helpful. Radiology is still a great field with lots of opportunities and incentives, but for the right person.
There are still very good jobs out there. My conclusion is that after the hot market of radiology in mid 2000s, a lot of people choose this field for wrong reasons. The good old days were not as good as you might think. The pay was not as good as you might think.
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Have to agree with the younger rads on this, a lot of the older rads did sell out for their own benefit. Had it happen to me, was on supposed partner track, then he sold out to corporate radiology slightly less then a year before I was supposed to be partner. Also screwed over his other partners with a crappy deal.
Of course if you are an employee you will have a different mindset then if you own the practice, it’s human nature. Just like if people rent a house they generally don’t care as much about it then if they own it. Also if an employee, the job may be fun/enjoyable but you are still under the control of the boss.-
Kind of funny trying to blame millennials for the downfall of radiology when even the oldest of them have just turned 40, just a few years out of training at most, certainly in no position to be exerting any sort of influence on deciding whether to sell a practice to PE or making any other significant practice-guiding decisions.
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^^ its the boomer Rads sure but there are a lot of Gen X rads (~40s) that have embraced the Corp model. If u peruse the RP YouTube channel youd be surprised at the age of a lot of the Rads speaking on there.
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Quote from Waduh Dong
^^ its the boomer Rads sure but there are a lot of Gen X rads (~40s) that have embraced the Corp model. If u peruse the RP YouTube channel youd be surprised at the age of a lot of the Rads speaking on there.
I believe this is called “Stockholm Syndrome”
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1390 as of this moment…
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Shouldnt this be a new thread at this point
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Quote from boggles
Shouldnt this be a new thread at this point
I think khightriders point in bumping this is to show that the prior pessimism was an over reaction (I pointed this out earlier in this thread) -
I’m honestly just keeping tabs for myself
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Quote from RoleCall
As a millennial, I reject your bias.
I have a lot of fun at work, especially doing procedures, which I do more of than most of my boomer colleagues. And you are correct, I do value my lifestyle and want to avoid burnout.
Not a job for me. It’s a career which I enjoy. I’ll do it until I can’t, but I’ll gain financial independence first and it will be on my terms.
At best, I have 50 good years left on this earth. If I can stop [b]grinding[/b] by age 40, why wouldn’t I?
Is it grinding or fun? Be consistent in your post. -
[image]https://i.imgur.com/JSzxWDd.jpg[/image]
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Would have to imagine most practices outside of big cities are hiring.
Telerads seems to be getting more popular with rads coming out of fellowship. Then theres those that dont want to read out of their fellowship subspecialty. This cuts into the candidate pool.
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Dont understand why people are trying to blame anybody for state of radiology.
Did Boomers sell out and act greedy? I dont know, but if they did, good for them.
Do mellineals care only about lifestyle? Maybe. Good for them.
Quit whining and make the best of it.
As a recent grad I can say the opportunities are there to bust your butt and build a practice. Its not easy, but it beats playing the victim.
Its a JOB. If Youd like to live in make believe land go to work without pay. I like radiology enough, but know a big part of it is money and lifestyle. Big Pimping aint easy!
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Quote from AKOMAN
Dont understand why people are trying to blame anybody for state of radiology.
Did Boomers sell out and act greedy? I dont know, but if they did, good for them.
Do mellineals care only about lifestyle? Maybe. Good for them.
Quit whining and make the best of it.
As a recent grad I can say the opportunities are there to bust your butt and build a practice. Its not easy, but it beats playing the victim.
Its a JOB. If Youd like to live in make believe land go to work without pay. I like radiology enough, but know a big part of it is money and lifestyle. Big Pimping aint easy!
Awesome show, great job.
Try entering this field in a down market, then talk to me.-
It’s not a down market. If people aren’t happy they should make a change! Make hay when the sun shines!
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No it’s an amazing market right now.
Not the case when I started
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Hilarious to read the first ten posts or so. A bunch of doomsday predictions. Its easy to spot the pessimists. Flounce was only one to predict the outcome correctly. The rest were like omg rads is toast for 3 years easy et etc
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I’m not sure the market is good.
Lots of crappy jobs. If you look into big and medium size cities, 90% of the jobs are corporate, evening, etc.Don’t buy the BS of corporate advertisements. I saw one of the Radpartner’s ads the other day. It was funny since it said “partnership track job”. Really?
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There should be a button to ignore all rad partners jobs. Someone email the acr!
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Quote from boggles
There should be a button to ignore all rad partners jobs. Someone email the acr!
Radpartners keeps the lights on at the ACR.
The other button this needs is one that filters out the obnoxious tele ads.
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Hey remember Corbett has been predicting this since at least 2016 when I started my graph!!
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Quote from Hospital-Rad
I’m not sure the market is good.
Lots of crappy jobs. If you look into big and medium size cities, 90% of the jobs are corporate, evening, etc.Don’t buy the BS of corporate advertisements. I saw one of the Radpartner’s ads the other day. It was funny since it said “partnership track job”. Really?
“Physician-owned” is another misleading term one that P/E uses. One can usually determine P/E by googling the name of the hospital and finding the rad page.-
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1479. Good thing the doomsday scenario didnt play out as suggested by those early posters. Is this the hottest market of all time? Anyone care to tell their story of when the market was anywhere close to this?
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Its right there with 2004-2006
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Quote from chitownrads18
1479. Good thing the doomsday scenario didnt play out as suggested by those early posters. Is this the hottest market of all time? Anyone care to tell their story of when the market was anywhere close to this?
Def way better than when I graduated in 2013 (?ACR maybe around 2-300 back then)…Doomsday individuals will say that most of the job s*ck/are private equity RP etc…Regardless I will take this over what we had in 2013 -
@dergon. What did folks make starting out back then? 200?
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What do all these jobs actually mean? less need for fellowship? higher starting salaries? fewer years to partner? or just the option to work where you want?
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Quote from boggles
What do all these jobs actually mean? less need for fellowship? higher starting salaries? fewer years to partner? or just the option to work where you want?
It means you have your choice of shitty jobs as opposed to being stuck with a single (or no) option. -
Just a single reference point – Our fellow just signed.
He had offers from my academic-lite group, another local group, and 2 additional regional academic practices. 4 interviews, 4 offers.
(He took the more prestigious academic MSK job) -
Quote from dergon
Its right there with 2004-2006
Quote from chitownrads18
@dergon. What did folks make starting out back then? 200?
No
I absolutely recall that period of a couple of years there where guys right out of fellowship were *starting* locally at more than my salary …. in the 300-350 range at the time. -
Edit — I little story to tell on why I recollect so well.
The year was 2007 and one of my fellows took a job locally with a starting salary about 8% more than I was making as faculty who had been on staff for 10 years.
I reached out to my Chair (interim) to schedule a meeting about comp. Not only would he not give me a raise, he wouldn’t even meet to discuss it.
So I walked down the street to a loca institution to interview and got an offer to head up their newly formed MSK division. I then went around my Chairman’s back directly to the hospital president.
I simply stated “Do you know that we have lost 8 radiologists the last year and recruited none… and that my Chair won’t even meet with me to discuss salary?” I told him my offer and that I was putting my notice end of the week if that salary number wasn’t met.
6pm on Friday my Chair calls me and says tersely “Well… I guess you got your raise,” and hung up on me.
From that point on I knew I had a target on my back.
About 8 months later I was one of 6 group members who instituted a coup and went to the administration to take him out.
I won in the end. … and I’m still in the job 15 years later. 🙂 -
2012, My offers 250, 260, 300, and an outlier 425 for rural 1 on, 1 off. Not sure there was a job on offer in Cleveland.
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Shortly after that 2007 raise the bottom fell out. I knew the market was overheated. I remember telling my wife at the time that I thought that would be the most I ever made.
It would be a decade before I got another raise.
Market flipped in an instant. Gone were the PP offers of immediate full partner pay and debt forgiveness to get one candidate.
we started getting 70 CVs for a single 7 on/7off night job. It was take it or leave it until 2015.
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Interesting story Dergon. Curious what motivated your old chair to be such a d*ck? Did he get a bigger bonus for keeping faculty salaries low and morale bad?
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As far as the 7 on/7 off night job with 70 applications, its good to be reminded of that since some are complaining about tons of crappy jobs out there. Much better to have tons of crappy open corp jobs than not.
I remember how bleak it looked at the time. Not sure what caused the collapse of the job market? Was it the older rads not retiring who got killed in the 08-09 market crash, reimbursement going down, other?
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Quote from Drrad123
Interesting story Dergon. Curious what motivated your old chair to be such a d*ck? Did he get a bigger bonus for keeping faculty salaries low and morale bad?
Power tripping boomer, I suspect. No shortage of those around.
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Quote from dergon
Edit — I little story to tell on why I recollect so well.
The year was 2007 and one of my fellows took a job locally with a starting salary about 8% more than I was making as faculty who had been on staff for 10 years.
I reached out to my Chair (interim) to schedule a meeting about comp. Not only would he not give me a raise, he wouldn’t even meet to discuss it.
So I walked down the street to a loca institution to interview and got an offer to head up their newly formed MSK division. I then went around my Chairman’s back directly to the hospital president.
I simply stated “Do you know that we have lost 8 radiologists the last year and recruited none… and that my Chair won’t even meet with me to discuss salary?” I told him my offer and that I was putting my notice end of the week if that salary number wasn’t met.
6pm on Friday my Chair calls me and says tersely “Well… I guess you got your raise,” and hung up on me.
From that point on I knew I had a target on my back.
About 8 months later I was one of 6 group members who instituted a coup and went to the administration to take him out.
I won in the end. … and I’m still in the job 15 years later. 🙂
Help me to understand: Why would you want to stay in a job that doesn’t appreciate where your boss actively loathes you and your ambition to do better?
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Quote from jd4540
Quote from chitownrads18
1479. Good thing the doomsday scenario didnt play out as suggested by those early posters. Is this the hottest market of all time? Anyone care to tell their story of when the market was anywhere close to this?
Def way better than when I graduated in 2013 (?ACR maybe around 2-300 back then)…Doomsday individuals will say that most of the job s*ck/are private equity RP etc…Regardless I will take this over what we had in 2013
I remember applying to dozens of jobs when I was a fellow in the first half of 2014 – not even a single one of those “applications” turned into an actual in person job. -
Quote from knightrider
Quote from jd4540
Quote from chitownrads18
1479. Good thing the doomsday scenario didnt play out as suggested by those early posters. Is this the hottest market of all time? Anyone care to tell their story of when the market was anywhere close to this?
Def way better than when I graduated in 2013 (?ACR maybe around 2-300 back then)…Doomsday individuals will say that most of the job s*ck/are private equity RP etc…Regardless I will take this over what we had in 2013
I remember applying to dozens of jobs when I was a fellow in the first half of 2014 – not even a single one of those “applications” turned into an actual in person job.
2013 one was lucky to get an email response. Did not land a job until June of my fellowship. Contract I received had drastically changed for the worse from the one discussed a few months back when I had interviewed. -
Any predictions as to what will cause the next job crash?
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US government debt crisis that leads to both a market crash and across the board austerity in programs including big cuts to medical reimbursement
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Fed has learned they can prevent or reverse depression level crashes. It is the magic of fiat currency. Even the Great Depression could have been avoided by an activist Fed, alas they didn’t realize it until later.
Inflation could stir the pot and create some up and downs, but basically the Fed can flood the economy with infinite amounts of money and are only restrained by inflation. If inflation remains in check — let the good time roll! -
US government debt crisis that leads to both a market crash and across the board austerity in programs including big cuts to medical reimbursement
You dont need a bad stock market to wreck rad job market. Remember the mid 90s when stock market was booming but rad market was poor.
I think reimbursement cuts would probably do it alone. If rads comp is threatened, they wont mind being squeezed and working more. Hiring less.
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Quote from CoronaRad
Fed has learned they can prevent or reverse depression level crashes. It is the magic of fiat currency. Even the Great Depression could have been avoided by an activist Fed, alas they didn’t realize it until later.
Inflation could stir the pot and create some up and downs, but basically the Fed can flood the economy with infinite amounts of money and are only restrained by inflation. If inflation remains in check — let the good time roll!
They’re only able to do this by printing money and in turn devaluaing actual working people’s (us, amongst many many others) labor.
It’s a short term solution that, in the short term, certainly prevents a short term crash but I, and many many others, and the record of history, predict will lead to the downfall of any society that implements the money printer go brrr solution. -
Quote from dergon
US government debt crisis that leads to both a market crash and across the board austerity in programs including big cuts to medical reimbursement
Surprise billing law that is set to take effect in Jan is predicted by some to significantly lower reimbursement rates from private insurers which could put a pause on the job market and/or make the available jobs less desirable. Almost seems like the Govt has given up on controlling HC spending and so maybe letting the insurance companies/free market do it for them is the path of less resistance. -
Quote from jd4540
Quote from dergon
US government debt crisis that leads to both a market crash and across the board austerity in programs including big cuts to medical reimbursement
Surprise billing law that is set to take effect in Jan is predicted by some to significantly lower reimbursement rates from private insurers which could put a pause on the job market and/or make the available jobs less desirable. Almost seems like the Govt has given up on controlling HC spending and so maybe letting the insurance companies/free market do it for them is the path of less resistance.
Who are “some” and what is ” significantly ” ?
A nationwide study published in [i]Mayo Clinic Proceedings[/i] in 2015 showed radiologist burnout at a concerning 61%. It’s questionable how many of these burned out radiologists are willing to work more and even if they did it’s unclear how much of the supply demand imbalance they would rectify (currently almost 1500 jobs on the ACR web site, 1000-1100 graduating residents per year, population getting older and requiring more care, and the preceeding doesn’t include retirements )
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^^Many radiologists will take whatever comes there way since they are indebted, spend heavily, have no autonomy in their jobs and have no other options. I think burning out and working more will win over any comp reductions by a long shot.
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Quote from JTG
Quote from jd4540
Quote from dergon
US government debt crisis that leads to both a market crash and across the board austerity in programs including big cuts to medical reimbursement
Surprise billing law that is set to take effect in Jan is predicted by some to significantly lower reimbursement rates from private insurers which could put a pause on the job market and/or make the available jobs less desirable. Almost seems like the Govt has given up on controlling HC spending and so maybe letting the insurance companies/free market do it for them is the path of less resistance.
Who are “some” and what is ” significantly ” ?
Think I just got a “call to action” email the other day so def on ACRs radar….On SDN a few posters on the ER forum consider this more of a threat then over-saturation of the field. Apparently the way the law is currently written gives insurance companies a path to continuously negotiate decreased in-network reimbursement. -
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Quote from Drrad123
Any predictions as to what will cause the next job crash?
Is this possible today? I’m genuinely asking… The number of studies is insane and is not on pace to slow down. Most practices are already stretched pretty thin. Unless we have a total societal lockdown (like we did in April of 2020) for a long period of time, i don’t see how practices can stop hiring…
The 2009 trifecta was a one off – the increase in productivity brought about by PACS is not going to happen again, at least not until AI systems get 100-1000x (10,000x?) better.
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Quote from chitownrads18
Hilarious to read the first ten posts or so. A bunch of doomsday predictions. Its easy to spot the pessimists. Flounce was only one to predict the outcome correctly. The rest were like omg rads is toast for 3 years easy et etc
I also predicted the outcome correctly
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Remember just a year or so ago we are going to be replaced by AI
