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ACR Jobs posts decline from 1100+ to 800+
Looks like many Independent Contractors and Per Diem Rads are free now. I heard in many groups, Emp and partners are taking unpaid time off! If and when the COVID thing stabilizes, will there be a surge in volume?
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677 Replies
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Nobody knows. There are two camps. The optimistic ones say that volumes will come back big time within 6 months or so, the other camp says that recovery will take years.
The next year will be telling.-
I think it’ll take several years, for muliple reasons.
Hope I’m wrong.
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The answer is always between two extremes.
The good news is we are coming from a place where everyone had more volume than they could handle, so most can tolerate a moderate decline in volumes.
Groups will cancel short term plans to hire to compensate for the dip, and I think the next 2-3 years of fellows are gonna face a rough market
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Quote from ar123
Nobody knows. There are two camps. The optimistic ones say that volumes will come back big time within 6 months or so, the other camp says that recovery will take years.
The next year will be telling.
As of now 85% of the job losses are a temporary layoff. We should have enough testing capacity to screen every outpatient by the end of May/early June. This suggests a volume recovery sooner rather than later.
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Not only will volumes be back up when the lockdown is lifted, whenever that is. There will be a huge surge in volume of all the imaging requests that have been put on hold – follow ups of thyroid nodules, lung nodules, ovarian cysts, renal cysts, etc, as well as evaluation of non acute or minor symptoms that were not acute enough to justify a 65 year old to come out, eg minor headache x 1 year, chronic back pain MRI, vague dizziness, transient visual changes, and of course all the Ortho imaging weve been putting off etc.
The way our group sees this challenge is not the slow-down ; its the surge of outpatient studies when it becomes safer to come out of the lockdown. We will need all hands on deck at that time. A little fairness and kindness shown to the junior associates and per diems now are an investment of goodwill that we hope to reap when local groups get super busy and need help. My 2 cents.
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Flounce I like your optimism. I don’t think it will be that easy or quick — at least in most geographies where there is a lot of hurt. I think there is a chance of a such a surge but a lot of it will come down to patient’s feeling that they are safe at doctor’s offices, hospitals, etc regardless of re-opening of society.
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2 years without another major event and things will be nearly normal.
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Quote from Voxel77
Looks like many Independent Contractors and Per Diem Rads are free now. I heard in many groups, Emp and partners are taking unpaid time off! If and when the COVID thing stabilizes, will there be a surge in volume?
That is a significant drop. I expect this trend to continue.
I saw the number reach the 200s during the nadir of the last recession.
All new rads were stuck doing multiple fellowships.
A “surge” going to 80% pre covid volumes is not really a surge. It is still a 20% drop which is huge.-
Volumes are not going to suddenly surge…. sure, they won’t stay this low but we are looking at large scale unemployment / loss of insurance coverage for many. Even the insured will likely take their time getting expensive elective imaging or procedures taken care of until finances are in better shape. Overall, this will take years to recover from volume wise, I anticipate all groups will be down 20-25% from recent peak volumes for several years. Hiring will slow down and the red hot job market will cool down some.
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Radpartners licking their chops right now
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Quote from AngryBirds
Radpartners licking their chops right now
They are currently too busy licking their wounds.
This volume can flip like a switch. The American Population is trained to do what it is told. As soon as the announcements come out to resume prior behaviors, they will loose the fear as quickly as it was instilled in them.-
Quote from Nothingburger
Quote from AngryBirds
Radpartners licking their chops right now
They are currently too busy licking their wounds.
This volume can flip like a switch. The American Population is trained to do what it is told. As soon as the announcements come out to resume prior behaviors, they will loose the fear as quickly as it was instilled in them.
Health care stocks are currently rallying because removal of quarantines should release pent-up demand for clinic visits, new prescriptions and elective surgical procedures. The stock market leads the economy -
Quote from Nothingburger
Quote from AngryBirds
Radpartners licking their chops right now
They are currently too busy licking their wounds.
This volume can flip like a switch. The American Population is trained to do what it is told. As soon as the announcements come out to resume prior behaviors, they will loose the fear as quickly as it was instilled in them.
Ha! It’s always fun to see the “someone is trained to do as they are told”, because it’s usually meant to insult people as sheep-like. But 99+ times out of 100 it’s usually a really good idea to do as one’s told. It keeps one from driving the wrong way in traffic, burning your hand on the stove, getting addicted to meth or shooting yourself in the leg when you don’t practice firearm safety.
Always good to use critical thinking for important or unusual decisions. But in general, doing what one is told is an excellent default.-
as someone mentioned, extent of volume rebound will depend on how affluent your area is.
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715 this am. Will we be in the 600s in a month?
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600s by the end of the week. Theres 30 old Envision job ads that will expire soon.
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It’s too bad they have such strong financial backing, wouldn’t mind seeing them go
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It will take a good 2-3 years to get back to prior volumes.
The job market will be tough for the next few years. Uncertainty, decreased volumes and delayed retirements.
In addition people will be frightened to go to doctor for non-critical issues. They can live with their knee pain, headache, random chest pains and etc for a while.
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Quote from Flounce
Not only will volumes be back up when the lockdown is lifted, whenever that is. There will be a huge surge in volume of all the imaging requests that have been put on hold – follow ups of thyroid nodules, lung nodules, ovarian cysts, renal cysts, etc, as well as evaluation of non acute or minor symptoms that were not acute enough to justify a 65 year old to come out, eg minor headache x 1 year, chronic back pain MRI, vague dizziness, transient visual changes, and of course all the Ortho imaging weve been putting off etc.
The way our group sees this challenge is not the slow-down ; its the surge of outpatient studies when it becomes safer to come out of the lockdown. We will need all hands on deck at that time. A little fairness and kindness shown to the junior associates and per diems now are an investment of goodwill that we hope to reap when local groups get super busy and need help. My 2 cents.
I agree with you. Most of the projections on here have no supporting reasoning, a clear recency bias and a vision clouded my myopia, which is a normal human response to stress. The long term demographic trend in this country of an aging population requiring more medical care relative to our ability to meet it is still intact. This is just a short bump in the road.-
Now its less than 800. Wonder if jobs posted in the last few days are actively hiring? Why else would they be posting?
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Quote from irfellowship2020
Now its less than 800. Wonder if jobs posted in the last few days are actively hiring? Why else would they be posting?
We have postings currently which are no longer valid; will just expire.
I’m sure that is true of many others as well.
The numbers don’t mean much.
How the tables have turned.
As far as our current staff, I think this summarizes our position:
“Treat your associates and per diems nicely, because if groups are downsizing now, they will be hiring again someday and seats will need butts, and the butt you know beats the butt you don’t.”
We all slosh through it together.
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…and I don’t mean to speak for everyone here, what I wrote above is just for my practice. We are in an area with patient population that I do not expect most of them to lose their health insurance, your area may be different. When this COVID crisis started and social distancing / lockdown announced, we combed through scheduled orders to determine which outpatients were truly stat , and which – i.e. most of them – might be postponed for the time being. Along with the hospitals we cover, we had the patients called and told them to hold off on coming in if they were comfortable with that. So we now had an unscheduled order list of thousands, probably over 10K studies by now (just guessing), that will be brought in after the shutdown is lifted, whenever that is. Not making any predictions whether that is 3 months or 20 months, just saying that *eventually* someday it will be safer to emerge from home and to come in and get that thyroid nodule follow up and ovarian cyst follow up and lower back pain MRI Lspine or elbow MRI for tennis elbow. And when that happens, we will have a lot of backlogged imaging to be done. YMMV. Treat your associates and per diems nicely, because if groups are downsizing now, they will be hiring again someday and seats will need butts, and the butt you know beats the butt you don’t.
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yes
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I think the question is, is the damage of the economy already done in that no one can predict what the central planners will do regarding shutting you down at their whim?
Or will this be the reason for the ultimate, hot civil war?-
Whoa there, cowboy. Pretty sure cooler heads will prevail before a civil war ensues…However, the economic impact is just beginning in my opinion.
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Quote from Dr. ****er
I think the question is, is the damage of the economy already done in that no one can predict what the central planners will do regarding shutting you down at their whim?
Or will this be the reason for the ultimate, hot civil war?
Hot civil war? What does this mean?
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Is there a real possibility that after my 2020-21 fellowship I’ll be forced to do a 2nd fellowship? I could think of some fellowships I wouldn’t mind doing. But that’s like a $400k hit to my income…
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Quote from BlackTea
Is there a real possibility that after my 2020-21 fellowship I’ll be forced to do a 2nd fellowship? I could think of some fellowships I wouldn’t mind doing. But that’s like a $400k hit to my income…
Read my prior posts. The data supports an early recovery in health care.
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Quote from BlackTea
Is there a real possibility that after my 2020-21 fellowship I’ll be forced to do a 2nd fellowship? I could think of some fellowships I wouldn’t mind doing. But that’s like a $400k hit to my income…
Yes. It is very possible unless you are geographically flexible.The volumes are not going to fully recover for 2-3 years. Do the math yourself. There are about 30,000 active radiologists in US. Every 1% drop in volume translates into loss of job opening for 30 radiologists. And add to that the delayed retirements and the future uncertainty that results in delayed in hiring. In other words, groups will hire only if they see stability for a relatively longer period of time.
I was in private practice before and during 2008-2010 downturn. The tightness of job market was disproportionate to volume drop. The way business of radiology work, 5% drop in volumes has a huge impact on the hiring process. Compared to many other fields, radiology practices have more buffer to swallow increased volumes for a year or two (one main reason for cyclic job market in radiology) and they hire only when they feel secure about future incomes.-
What’s a good 2nd fellowship? Asking for a friend, as I am not that desperate yet.
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Jtg i agree that healthcare stocks are resilient in a recession and actual hospital operating income might start to recover as soon as the quarantine is off. But this does not translate into jobs.
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IR is good and relatively desired even in this situation being a hospital based specialty.
I think the problem is that IR is competitive and its two years now unless ESIR
I am personally going to a new gig to a top 3 metro (NYC/chicago/LA) and had a 25% pay increase from a less popular location. Confirmed the pp group I am going to and the contract stands despite the vid. As great as my existing gig is, I personally need to be in a big metro so here I am.
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In a bad job market, IR and Breast are most likely to get you a job. But once the job market improves, you may be doing breast or IR for the rest of your career, so choose wisely. If someone doesn’t want to do either, I’ve always thought that Nucs would be a good 2nd fellowship to have, every group needs a guy in charge of Nucs including therapies.
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Quote from Flounce
In a bad job market, IR and Breast are most likely to get you a job. But once the job market improves, you may be doing breast or IR for the rest of your career, so choose wisely. If someone doesn’t want to do either, I’ve always thought that Nucs would be a good 2nd fellowship to have, every group needs a guy in charge of Nucs including therapies.
Good point. Do them if you like them.If you do IR and breast, you are guaranteed that you will do a lot of them in most groups unlike let’s say Nucs or MSK. I know MSK rads who do 30% MSK. But almost all IRs and mammographers that I know, do 60-70% of their sub-speciality. So watch what you wish for.
I myself do a lot of breast and a lot of procedures in my group and I am fine with that. But there are some days that I wish I was the Neurorad or MSK rad in the group in the outpatient rotation with all its flexibility and comfort unlike my mammo rotations that I walk around the department like a chicken.
My 2 cents.
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Neuro and msk have fewest interruptions during the day, hence most flexibility
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I don’t think a reduction from 1050 ads for crappy corporate and telerad jobs to 750 ads for crappy corporate and telerad jobs means much.
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Upper 600s this AM. Are we going to see 500s by the end of May?
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Quote from drad123
Upper 600s this AM. Are we going to see 500s by the end of May?
That’s a backward looking number. One could have chosen to focus on the positive, such as: how elective procedures are re opening this week in hospitals across the country, we are getting closer to having enough tests to re open the economy (currently 11% positive and ideally it will be 5% positive), congress is discussing a testing and tracing program, it was just announced that Remdesivir will be approved for treatment in Japan next month, etc… All of these will increase our volume and the job market will stabilize then improve, with an expected lag -
Private practice jobs have fallen away. What is left is corporate. I suspect PP will resume recruiting in 2021 if there is a decent recovery. Not much help for 2020 fellows.
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Quote from Hospital-Rad
The volumes are not going to fully recover for 2-3 years. Do the math yourself. There are about 30,000 active radiologists in US. Every 1% drop in volume translates into loss of job opening for 30 radiologists. And add to that the delayed retirements and the future uncertainty that results in delayed in hiring. In other words, groups will hire only if they see stability for a relatively longer period of time.
I was in private practice before and during 2008-2010 downturn. The tightness of job market was disproportionate to volume drop. The way business of radiology work, 5% drop in volumes has a huge impact on the hiring process. Compared to many other fields, radiology practices have more buffer to swallow increased volumes for a year or two (one main reason for cyclic job market in radiology) and they hire only when they feel secure about future incomes.Interesting. 1% of 30,000 is 300 though. We have had a 50% decrease. Even if we go back to 90% precovid that will kill the job market.
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A bad job market is a godsend for the corporates. They will fill their jobs at low price.
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Quote from drad123
Quote from Hospital-Rad
The volumes are not going to fully recover for 2-3 years. Do the math yourself. There are about 30,000 active radiologists in US. Every 1% drop in volume translates into loss of job opening for 30 radiologists. And add to that the delayed retirements and the future uncertainty that results in delayed in hiring. In other words, groups will hire only if they see stability for a relatively longer period of time.
I was in private practice before and during 2008-2010 downturn. The tightness of job market was disproportionate to volume drop. The way business of radiology work, 5% drop in volumes has a huge impact on the hiring process. Compared to many other fields, radiology practices have more buffer to swallow increased volumes for a year or two (one main reason for cyclic job market in radiology) and they hire only when they feel secure about future incomes.Interesting. 1% of 30,000 is 300 though. We have had a 50% decrease. Even if we go back to 90% precovid that will kill the job market.
Yes. One zero was dropped.As you also mentioned, just 5% drop in volume may seem nothing but it translates into lack of job availability for all the coming fellows.
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Do PE fail before the new graduates increase the labor supply more and bail them out?
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Bad job market will benefit the corporates greatly. Fellows will sign on when theres nothing else. Primary care type salaries will abound with crazy volume requirements. Many private groups will also take advantage,
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What if PP didn’t take advantage and offered fair salary to newbies to deliver a better product? Could PP compete with corp or will hospital admins always go for lowest cost?
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I think the problem isnt PP cant compete with corps.
In hot location like NYC, LA, SF bay, as far as I know many PP and good gigs are not hiring. Corps may be only options.
And for the less competitive fellows looking at poor locations, those PP would have to compete with corps but corps can often offer a better starting salary than PP because they have the leverage of cheap tele reads.
Perhaps its time for PP in less competitive location to begin to offer partnership tract to remote readers.
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Really? A 5 Percent volume drop means a crap job market, when pre-Covid, this was the hottest market in years? Come on.
i cant speak for outpatient groups, but for groups that cover a hospital – you will see a significant return to normalcy by the late summer, then a downtrend in the fall and winter, and hopefully a return to normal next summer. Hospitals make a ton of money on imaging side costs…it is in their interest to bring imaging volumes to normal. Usually when your interests align with the hospital system, it works out ok. -
ar123 makes a lot of sense.
What are fellowship programs doing regarding start date? I havent heard anything, but depending on program and city I wonder if they push them back. Which would be a good thing in many cases. You dont need to start a mammo fellowship with no one getting a mammogram. And starting a month or two later means you end a month or two later, and thats more time for things to settle out a bit.
Plus, could be hard to travel to interviews in summer and fall.
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Quote from ar123
Really? A 5 Percent volume drop means a crap job market, when pre-Covid, this was the hottest market in years? Come on.
i cant speak for outpatient groups, but for groups that cover a hospital – you will see a significant return to normalcy by the late summer, then a downtrend in the fall and winter, and hopefully a return to normal next summer. Hospitals make a ton of money on imaging side costs…it is in their interest to bring imaging volumes to normal. Usually when your interests align with the hospital system, it works out ok.
What is the definition of normal volume?
Hospitals will try to bring the volume up but they won’t be able to reach the volumes of 2-3 months ago for the next 1-2 years.
5% decrease in volume means on average about 1500 less radiologists will be needed, believe it or not.
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Quote from ar123
Really? A 5 Percent volume drop means a crap job market, when pre-Covid, this was the hottest market in years? Come on.
i cant speak for outpatient groups, but for groups that cover a hospital – you will see a significant return to normalcy by the late summer, then a downtrend in the fall and winter, and hopefully a return to normal next summer. Hospitals make a ton of money on imaging side costs…it is in their interest to bring imaging volumes to normal. Usually when your interests align with the hospital system, it works out ok.
Yes, hospitals make money from imaging. But hospitals generally don’t drive the hiring of radiologists. The hospital only pushed to hire radiologists in a few circumstance: A) Revenue becomes impacted because the groups are running so short staffed that delays in interpretation are harming billing, B) Referrers complain about poor service and RTATs, or C) The group is unable to put butts in chairs and provide needed professional services at coverage sites.
Until volume comes back fully we’re not going to be seeing any of those dynamics in play. Hospitals will let the groups run at whatever staffing level they choose until it gets really bad.
Quote from Hospital-Rad
What is the definition of normal volume?
“Normal” for purposes of the radiology job market is when currently employed radiologists can make the same $$ they were making in 2019 without extending their hours, taking more call, or giving up vacation.
Until then they will suck it up and run thin.
Quote from Hospital-Rad
Hospitals will try to bring the volume up but they won’t be able to reach the volumes of 2-3 months ago for the next 1-2 years.5% decrease in volume means on average about 1500 less radiologists will be needed, believe it or not.
Yep. Which is why I am pretty darned bearish on the radiology job market in the short term. -
A volume drop of 5-10% should not significantly affect the job market.
There isn’t a national reading list. 5-10% decrease in volume can’t be extrapolated to 1500-3000 radiologists. That isn’t how it works. The volume decrease has to be viewed from more of a microeconomic perspective by practice. And even further within sections in practices. For example, if a group of 30 has 4 MSK radiologists, then 5% of the volume drop will be proportionally MSK. If one of those MSK radiologists leaves, then the other 3 can’t simply absorb the vacated work easily, thus the need to hire to replace.
Additionally, volumes prior to March were extremely elevated. Many practices were pushed to their reasonable limit of being able to do their work with their current manpower. A 5-10% drop would likely allow them to breath a little easier and not negate the need to hire to replace someone who left.
There will be also be a number of individual radiologists who will come to realizations that they are willing to trade income for more time off/easier work days in the post virus era, having just experienced what it was like now. This will also positively contribute to job availability.
Almost no one is hiring at this moment because everyone is circling the wagons in a defensive mode to wait and see when this will end and whether the current 50% volume drop will be for another 1 month or 12 months.
The biggest factor that will drive the radiology job market will be the recovery of the stock markets. That will supersede a volume drop of 5-10% by at least a multiple of 5. There are a LARGE number of radiologists that will postpone retirement until the stock markets return to their February 2020 levels.
(In my personal opinion, if the economy can safely open back up within a month or two, the market recovery could happen by next summer. Conversely, if we continue to stay on lockdown through the fall/winter and print trillions of dollars each month, it could last 5+ years which would make things extremely difficult for anyone trying to find a new job or move or change positions.) -
Thank you.
Implying that there is a precise steady state in the radiologist:national volumes ratio that experiences real-time fluctuations has to be the most asinine comment I have seen on this forum. That’s not how it worked before. It’s not how it will work now. Other than locums and telerads, I don’t see much changing in the national landscape in the short or long term -
Thank you.
Implying that there is a precise steady state in the radiologist:national volumes ratio that experiences real-time fluctuations has to be the most asinine comment I have seen on this forum. -
@trio=work
Too many wrong assumptions in your post. For example, most groups are not as subspecialized as you say.
“Breath a little easier” is a wishful thinking. It doesn’t work the way you describe. People who used to work their a$$ off to maximize their income won’t become a life-style-low-volume-lovers in a few months. They will continue the way they used to practice. -
Quote from Hospital-Rad
@trio=work
Too many wrong assumptions in your post. For example, most groups are not as subspecialized as you say.
“Breath a little easier” is a wishful thinking. It doesn’t work the way you describe. People who used to work their a$$ off to maximize their income won’t become a life-style-low-volume-lovers in a few months. They will continue the way they used to practice.
Everyone wants to spin a narrative. I say if the PP jobs are there go get one.
No one in my current group wants to hire. They want more work. Same with almost every PP I have talked to.
Specialized groups are not the high paying jobs. The are big city quasi-academic or pseudo-corporate or outright RP and Envision jobs. -
Quote from trio=work
The biggest factor that will drive the radiology job market will be the recovery of the stock markets. That will supersede a volume drop of 5-10% by at least a multiple of 5. There are a LARGE number of radiologists that will postpone retirement until the stock markets return to their February 2020 levels.
I sure hope most radiologists are smart enough to not have a 100% equity position months or even years before retirement.
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If I’ve learned anything from all this, it’s that I’m going to learn to live on half my income for at least the first half of my career as an attending.
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Quote from BlackTea
Jtg i agree that healthcare stocks are resilient in a recession and actual hospital operating income might start to recover as soon as the quarantine is off. But this does not translate into jobs.
There will be a lag in the job market recovery as you’re stating but the long term demographics of a greater number of elderly patients needing imaging, who are on Medicare, relative to the number of radiologists is still intact. This is not like 2008 as this time the government effectively turned off a healthy economy and plans to turn it back on shortly (in 2008 the financial system was collapsing), has given us a far greater amount of stimulus, and the majority of the jobs that are lost are furloughed (in 2008 these jobs were permanently gone) so these people still have insurance. In addition this also is not like 2008 as in 2008 the PACS made radiologists more efficient and there is no technological innovation to make us massively more efficient now. One cannot extrapolate prior radiology job market swings to this one as the precursors are very different. The data suggests that this will be a short term downward bump in an otherwise long term improving radiology job market-
I dont know about mammo right now. My mammo friends are getting furloughed.
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Yeah that’s true outside of medicine too. Big tech companies are eating up talent from startups as well.
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I’ve said it before I think,
But hey, If the ‘average’ partner salary of a radiologist gets cut (and I mean ‘partner’ for a corp or a ‘true’ PP partner ) by 20-30% for a few years, then so be it. Even if starting salary offers go down 20-30% for a few years, so be it.
We’ll still be making more money than most other physicians, and usually more than our colleagues in the ER and on the medicine floors who are dealing with this BS every day.
I was seeing starting salary offers in the mid to high 3 range and in a few cases even the 4 range for partner track jobs in decent midwest locales. If that goes down to the 2’s for a while, I won’t starve.
PP groups also may reduce hiring for a while to make up for the money they have all lost, but where I’m at the local employed gigs / safety net hospitals / VA and academic centers have all told me they anticipate they will need rads this year and next summer…That’s my worst case option at this point, and I don’t think it’s the end of the world.-
Quote from ar123
But hey, If the ‘average’ partner salary of a radiologist gets cut (and I mean ‘partner’ for a corp or a ‘true’ PP partner ) by 20-30% for a few years, then so be it. Even if starting salary offers go down 20-30% for a few years, so be it.
If partner salaries go down by 20-30% you thing they will still hire but at a lower starting salary?-
If salaries get cut even 15 percent , there will be an effect on hiring because it would mean volumes remain down. A situation where the salary drop is a result of lower pay per exam is different as most of us have a threshold Of how hard we are willing to work for x.
Also, understand that some people are locked into scenarios where they have to generate a certain income. This mostly applies to sequela of alimony and child support but could also be due to entrepreneurship, supporting siblings, elderly parents, spouse with an expensive medical condition not covered by insurance as treatment is deemed off label, etc. If my group is in any way representative, this is probably 20 percent of working radiologists.-
Quote from wisdom
Also, understand that some people [s]are locked[/s] [b][i]believe they are locked[/i][/b] into scenarios where they have to generate a certain income. This mostly applies to sequela of alimony and child support but could also be due to entrepreneurship, supporting siblings, elderly parents, spouse with an expensive medical condition not covered by insurance as treatment is deemed off label, etc. If my group is in any way representative, this is probably 20 percent of working radiologists.
While effectively wisdom is right, this is an important distinction since it really is the main issue for why the radiology community specifically (and humanity generally) tends to devolve in terms of work and practices, and why corporates have won so much over the years.-
Quote from Dr. ****er
Quote from wisdom
Also, understand that some people are locked [b][i]believe they are locked[/i][/b] into scenarios where they have to generate a certain income. This mostly applies to sequela of alimony and child support but could also be due to entrepreneurship, supporting siblings, elderly parents, spouse with an expensive medical condition not covered by insurance as treatment is deemed off label, etc. If my group is in any way representative, this is probably 20 percent of working radiologists.
While effectively wisdom is right, this is an important distinction since it really is the main issue for why the radiology community specifically (and humanity generally) tends to devolve in terms of work and practices, and why corporates have won so much over the years.
I think corporatization is a little more complicated than that but I am definitely leery of signing on to a job where a radiologist is in charge. A radiologist with a hospital contract immediately grows horns.
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Most hospitals in our area are reopening imaging starting with 50% volume this coming week. We are completely booked through June 1st. After June, plans to ramp up to full volume in July.
Hospital has expanded spaces to allow for distancing in the waiting rooms etc, but have made it clear In no way are they planning on running on such low imaging volume for much longer.
Many were afraid that the patients would be too afraid to come in for their tests – but as the shelter in place order is getting loosened, the phones have been ringing off the hook for people wanting to get their imaging…
Not the doom day scenario that some here predicted from what I’ve seen today.-
The fact that after one month of complete lockdown patients call to schedule an appointment and even if we see a temporary surge in outpatient volumes, doesn’t give any information about the projected volumes in the next 1-2 years.
Also as drad123 mentioned, 5% decrease in volume doesn’t mean that salaries acroos the board will go down 5%. Most likely groups will be able to keep their previous salaries by not hiring. It is not that hard to understand.-
Quote from Hospital-Rad
The fact that after one month of complete lockdown patients call to schedule an appointment and even if we see a temporary surge in outpatient volumes, doesn’t give any information about the projected volumes in the next 1-2 years.
[b]Also as drad123 mentioned, 5% decrease in volume doesn’t mean that salaries acroos the board will go down 5%. Most likely groups will be able to keep their previous salaries by not hiring. It is not that hard to understand. [/b]
I totally understand that point. If i was a partner i’d do the same thing..that being said, we’re looking at a tighter job market for a while, which sucks for those of us finishing up training..but not necessarily a terrible long term scenario for those of you in practice. -
You don’t just hire for the present, you hire for the future. My bet is that 2020 may be a little down for volumes, and probably part of 2021 as well. But, the reality is that imaging has become a central part of both inpatient and outpatient diagnostic workups. Our population is aging, and older people require more imaging. Additionally, with the potential onset of telemedicine, imaging may be ordered even more frequently to replace the physical exam. In 5 years time the practices that are thinking only in terms of money will be filled with a bunch of 65+ dinos who can’t keep up with the list/complexity of studies. Your mind just doesn’t work as well/fast when you get older. Their clinical “buddies” will be mostly retired and younger clinicians are much more inclined to want their studies read by specialist radiologists.
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Quote from gasmasspsoas
Their clinical “buddies” will be mostly retired and younger clinicians are much more inclined to want their studies read by specialist radiologists.
This is what you have been told to believe. That extra 12 months doesn’t transform you into an ubermensch.-
Quote from drad123
Quote from gasmasspsoas
Their clinical “buddies” will be mostly retired and younger clinicians are much more inclined to want their studies read by specialist radiologists.
This is what you have been told to believe. That extra 12 months doesn’t transform you into an ubermensch.
I agree.
There are a few clinicians that want specialist radiologist interpretation; but in general, it is rare, in my experience. Frequently they are trying to avoid certain radiologists, not necessarily getting a specialist. Specialist reads are something many groups try to sell if they have specialization, but not often requested.
Even over and above specialization, we have a few mediocre rads about whom clinicians frequently complain, behind their backs, but rarely do anything about. To the point it surprises me; they just keep letting them read their studies. I don’t get it. You’d think they would address it in some way; and it sometimes manifests in requests for specialized reads, if the specialist isn’t the one they are trying to avoid!
Another thing, fellowship in 2002 doesn’t mean much to anybody anyway, especially if a rad is not very good. -
Quote from boomer
Quote from drad123
Quote from gasmasspsoas
Their clinical “buddies” will be mostly retired and younger clinicians are much more inclined to want their studies read by specialist radiologists.
This is what you have been told to believe. That extra 12 months doesn’t transform you into an ubermensch.
I agree.
There are a few clinicians that want specialist radiologist interpretation; but in general, it is rare, in my experience. Frequently they are trying to avoid certain radiologists, not necessarily getting a specialist. Specialist reads are something many groups try to sell if they have specialization, but not often requested.
Even over and above specialization, we have a few mediocre rads about whom clinicians frequently complain, behind their backs, but rarely do anything about. To the point it surprises me; they just keep letting them read their studies. I don’t get it. You’d think they would address it in some way; and it sometimes manifests in requests for specialized reads, if the specialist isn’t the one they are trying to avoid!
Another thing, fellowship in 2002 doesn’t mean much to anybody anyway, especially if a rad is not very good.This has been my experience as well-
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We are back to near 100% for what it is worth. I’m tired. I must have gotten soft.
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Quote from AKOMAN
We are back to near 100% for what it is worth. I’m tired. I must have gotten soft.
Not even close here.
Read about 30% of my normal MRI.
I did see a few routine pre-op total joint xrays roll through … some starting back slowly. -
Quote from AKOMAN
We are back to near 100% for what it is worth. I’m tired. I must have gotten soft.
Me too. We are back to 70%.
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@akonman – where abouts are you located (state or region is good enough) i have not heard of anyone above 50% or even close to 50% this week.
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30%
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Akoman is IR. I would say at my current shop IR volume is near normal at 70-80% and if electives come back it can put us over.
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Quote from irfellow2019
Akoman is IR. I would say at my current shop IR volume is near normal at 70-80% and if electives come back it can put us over.
70-80% is not “near normal”.Agree with people who say physicians are terrible when it comes to business stuff.
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Quote from Hospital-Rad
Quote from irfellow2019
Akoman is IR. I would say at my current shop IR volume is near normal at 70-80% and if electives come back it can put us over.
70-80% is not “near normal”.
Agree with people who say physicians are terrible when it comes to business stuff.
The initial 50% drop in volume was larger than has probably ever happened in the history of US radiology.
30% drop is still higher than I experienced in the great recession- not considering DRA cuts. -
Quote from Hospital-Rad
Quote from irfellow2019
Akoman is IR. I would say at my current shop IR volume is near normal at 70-80% and if electives come back it can put us over.
70-80% is not “near normal”.
Agree with people who say physicians are terrible when it comes to business stuff.
The fact is the volume dipped and radiologists are reporting that its moving upward from its trough. This doesn’t fit in with your recency and confirmation bias which wants to see things as being more negative than the facts support -
From my very very VERY preliminary standpoint, about 10% of the people we are calling and screening prior to electives and imaging are asking to wait until later because theyre still afraid of coming in.
This is in an area that has had some cases but not many.
I would guess that the proportion of people wanting to wait will be higher in areas of higher disease and where cases continue to lead the news.
A suggestion would be that if you have access to a mobile scanner, try advertising that (with precautions, have people wait in the car for their turn, etc), along with the fact that people will not have to enter the hospital.
This may help people who are afraid of the hospital get needed studies with less fear or risk of exposure.
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We have a 4 week rollout to 100%. We’ve been around 50-60%. IR and PET/CT have been near normal. MSK fell off a cliff.
Lots of nice positive cases out of the ER. -
Anybody else see “elective” surgeries showing up to the ER, then getting surgeries as inpatient. Seen a few hernias suddenly become symptomatic and go to surgery. Not blaming them, just wondering if others are playing the game.
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Our pets never decreased. Everything else did during this time but not pets. I think we are beginning to increase the volume. Yesterday I felt like 75% pre Covid shutdown.
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Quote from wisdom
@akonman – where abouts are you located (state or region is good enough) i have not heard of anyone above 50% or even close to 50% this week.
TX here. We never went below 55% for ER, neuro, Abd or chest. In fact, dept actually published the numbers, not my estimate.
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Coming back. Lot of ruptured appys, neglected breast lumps, even a guy with a 9 mm subdural hematoma who toughed it out for 3 weeks because he was afraid to come into the hospital.
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Very rural Northern California. So few cases here. Still taking precautions, but pretty much open for most business. People up here are getting frustrated though.
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Quote from gasmasspsoas
In 5 years time the practices that are thinking only in terms of money will be filled with a bunch of 65+ dinos who can’t keep up with the list/complexity of studies. Your mind just doesn’t work as well/fast when you get older. Their clinical “buddies” will be mostly retired and younger clinicians are much more inclined to want their studies read by specialist radiologists.
False dichotomy. You are discribing radiologists as either current fellows or 65+ dinos [sec] who don’t know how to read a CT. Unlike what you want to think, most adiologists out there are either fellowship trained or they have a lot of experience to the point that they do it better than many current fellows especially for the needs of a community practice.
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Quote from ar123
Most hospitals in our area are reopening imaging starting with 50% volume this coming week. We are completely booked through June 1st. After June, plans to ramp up to full volume in July.
Hospital has expanded spaces to allow for distancing in the waiting rooms etc, but have made it clear In no way are they planning on running on such low imaging volume for much longer.
Many were afraid that the patients would be too afraid to come in for their tests – but as the shelter in place order is getting loosened, the phones have been ringing off the hook for people wanting to get their imaging…
Not the doom day scenario that some here predicted from what I’ve seen today.
Look at pictures of California and Florida beaches for how quickly people will resume former activities when permitted (the beaches are packed). This will not be true of all activities but there are many that have been at home suffering due to a multitude of non Covid-19 pathologies that would like to be treated.
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Quote from JTG
Look at pictures of California and Florida beaches for how quickly people will resume former activities when permitted (the beaches are packed). This will not be true of all activities but there are many that have been at home suffering due to a multitude of non Covid-19 pathologies that would like to be treated.
Are the beaches in California and Florida packed similar to last year?
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Quote from drad123
Quote from ar123
But hey, If the ‘average’ partner salary of a radiologist gets cut (and I mean ‘partner’ for a corp or a ‘true’ PP partner ) by 20-30% for a few years, then so be it. Even if starting salary offers go down 20-30% for a few years, so be it.
If partner salaries go down by 20-30% you thing they will still hire but at a lower starting salary?
Yeah …. No.
Partners that take anything approaching a 30% hit will hide in their shells until it all comes back to normal…. no hiring at all.-
Dergon is correct.
Remember that options are not binary. Many practices use services like VRad for overnights, sometimes with final reads. VRad, like most places, are telling everyone they have spare capacity.
So instead of hiring a new rad and all the risks that entails (not knowing what salary to offer in a weird market, giving them time to ramp up and move, chances the newbie is a jerk), a practice can wait and see if and when volume returns. And hey if volume snaps back, people can always work hard to make back the money they lost.
Worst case scenario, they get slammed and let VRad eat a bit more for awhile. Which VRad would be thrilled to do.
So where the option is available, temporarily routing stuff to telerad is a superior option is the happy scenario where volume comes screaming back.
The truth is, everyone is hungry for volume right now.
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Quote from ar123
If I’ve learned anything from all this, it’s that I’m going to learn to live on half my income for at least the first half of my career as an attending.
That, and to have enough toilet paper, flour, and ammo, as well as a home gym and hair clippers.
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Our system is asking chairs of all departments to ask new hires to defer on-boarding for three months.
No new positions that weren’t already on the books will be opened.-
This is so disheartening. Not that it matters to any administrator in charge. What a great way to begin a radiologists relationship with a hospital. I’d immediately start working on my exit strategy.
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Quote from Hospital-Rad
Quote from JTG
Look at pictures of California and Florida beaches for how quickly people will resume former activities when permitted (the beaches are packed). This will not be true of all activities but there are many that have been at home suffering due to a multitude of non Covid-19 pathologies that would like to be treated.
Are the beaches in California and Florida packed similar to last year?
Feel free to count the beach traffic and let us know
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Quote from JTG
Quote from Hospital-Rad
Are the beaches in California and Florida packed similar to last year?
Feel free to count the beach traffic and let us know
Doesn’t need to count. Easier than that. You may be different though.
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Quote from dergon
Quote from AKOMAN
We are back to near 100% for what it is worth. I’m tired. I must have gotten soft.
Not even close here.
Read about 30% of my normal MRI.
I did see a few routine pre-op total joint xrays roll through … some starting back slowly.
today’s the day that we’re supposed to start doing cases that don’t require overnight stays so I wonder how much the pre-op stuff will pick up.
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
Quote from dergon
Quote from AKOMAN
We are back to near 100% for what it is worth. I’m tired. I must have gotten soft.
Not even close here.
Read about 30% of my normal MRI.
I did see a few routine pre-op total joint xrays roll through … some starting back slowly.
today’s the day that we’re supposed to start doing cases that don’t require overnight stays so I wonder how much the pre-op stuff will pick up.
I’m looking at the lists as I type this …
pretty much [b]ZERO[/b] across the board.
5 unread MSK MRIs, 4 unread X-rays …. system wide.
(ps — we are a facility that normally does 1.6 million cases per year
edit – And there are only 5 MSK MRIs because they are being politely saved to staff with the fellow and residents)
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Yeah that sucks. You might get some DEXAs to sign off. I know we re-opened schedulign templates on that today. At reduced slots anyway.
We did just upgrade the PACS license to 2 million as part of our coming overhaul.
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Quote from drad123
Quote from Hospital-Rad
70-80% is not “near normal”.
Agree with people who say physicians are terrible when it comes to business stuff.
The initial 50% drop in volume was larger than has probably ever happened in the history of US radiology.
30% drop is still higher than I experienced in the great recession- not considering DRA cuts.I agree. This has been my experience too.
As we discussed before, 5-10% decrease in volume can have huge impact on the job market. We can go from a healthy job market to a terrible job market. I don’t know why this concept is so hard for some people to understand.
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It wasn’t a great job market pre-COVID anyway. Sure, lots of postings but mostly corporate or night stuff. The new market coming out of COVID may be even worse with increase in corporate expansion in rads as they find it easier to hire and staff their sites.
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Sadly, but let’s see what it turns to by next Spring.
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Quote from Hospital-Rad
Quote from drad123
Quote from Hospital-Rad
70-80% is not “near normal”.
Agree with people who say physicians are terrible when it comes to business stuff.
The initial 50% drop in volume was larger than has probably ever happened in the history of US radiology.
30% drop is still higher than I experienced in the great recession- not considering DRA cuts.I agree. This has been my experience too.
As we discussed before, 5-10% decrease in volume can have huge impact on the job market. We can go from a healthy job market to a terrible job market. I don’t know why this concept is so hard for some people to understand.
Health care is inelastic. The volume is coming back already and the job market will follow after a lag.
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Quote from JTG
Health care is inelastic.
No. It’s really not. Life saving emergency healthcare is relatively inelastic. Cancer care for the insured is relatively inelastic.
But there are huge areas of the healthcare system for which outside variables determine consumption.
Take MRI knee for meniscus just as a random example. The demand for that procedure already fluctuates significantly on a seasonal basis with more being done late in the year because people with high deductible plans don’t seek it out until they meet their out-of-pocket max.
Other factors like whether or not you have a job with income to make a co-pay, whether you have health insurance, whether you have access to Medicaid in your state, and currently, whether or not you feel comfortable seeking healthcare at all, can have large effects on the imaging volumes.
The volume is coming back already and the job market will follow after a lag.
Coming back. But to what level?
I don’t know what’s coming, but I would not at all be surprised to see total imaging volumes in the 80-85% pre-covid range for a good long while.
And that level of only a 15-20% drop could have dramatic negative effects on the job market that reverberate for even longer.
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I would welcome 80% of precovid volume.
But no doubt we wont be hiring as we had planned.-
Speaking of which, what would be the most inelastic field in rad?
ED and general inpatient radiology comes to mind.
Most IR practice in an inpatient setting and demand for IR procedures are quite inelastic unless one practice with niche fields like cosmetic vein or womans health.
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Quote from irfellow2019
Speaking of which, what would be the most inelastic field in rad?
ED and general inpatient radiology comes to mind.
Most IR practice in an inpatient setting and demand for IR procedures are quite inelastic unless one practice with niche fields like cosmetic vein or womans health.
Inpatient IR. Oncology.
A few months ago I would have confidently answered ED too … but in March/April our non-Covid ER volumes fell off a cliff. So I’m not so sure about that anymore.
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Dergons analysis is good. Just incomplete.
Similar to COVID affecting different areas to different extents, the radiology comeback will vary significantly in both slope and total upswing depending on where you live, how hard you were hit, what the persisting endemic level of disease looks like and how long COVID leads the local news and keeps people inside.
There will be many places that return to at or near normal in a month. There will be many, particularly in harder hit states, that will be noticeably slower through 2020.
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Quote from radgrinder
Dergons analysis is good. Just incomplete.
Similar to COVID affecting different areas to different extents, the radiology comeback will vary significantly in both slope and total upswing depending on where you live, how hard you were hit, what the persisting endemic level of disease looks like and how long COVID leads the local news and keeps people inside.
There will be many places that return to at or near normal in a month. There will be many, particularly in harder hit states, that will be noticeably slower through 2020.
I agree. Great points
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Quote from JTG
Health care is inelastic. The volume is coming back already and the job market will follow after a lag.
Incorrect statement. Your statement is more of an economic jargon than reality.
Elastic versus inelastic are not zero and one. It is a spectrum from zero to one. We are talking about 10-15% of volume.
I correct you: Healthcare is RELATIVELY inelastic. But it is not perfectly inelastic. It’s elasticity is not zero and is probably something like 0.2-0.3 especially for something like medical imaging.
Example: During my career whenever I brought in a new imaging modality or made that modality more available, the demand went up. This should not happen to a perfectly inelastic demand.
I remember when we went from MRI 7Am to 5PM to 7AM to 10 PM system. The volume went up. The same patient who is managed conservatively for shoulder pain will have an Shoulder MRI because it is “easy to get”. When we went to a 7/24 hour MRI, our number of MRIs for Stroke went up (the same hospital and same ED without change in their patient caseload). Why? Because the same patient who used to be observed for dizziness after a head CT now goes straight to MRI scanner.I have several other stories for US, CTA coronary, Breast MRI, PET-CT and etc.
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Quote from Hospital-Rad
Quote from JTG
Health care is inelastic. The volume is coming back already and the job market will follow after a lag.
Incorrect statement. Your statement is more of an economic jargon than reality.
Elastic versus inelastic are not zero and one. It is a spectrum from zero to one. We are talking about 10-15% of volume.
I correct you: Healthcare is RELATIVELY inelastic. But it is not perfectly inelastic. It’s elasticity is not zero and is probably something like 0.2-0.3 especially for something like medical imaging.
Example: During my career whenever I brought in a new imaging modality or made that modality more available, the demand went up. This should not happen to a perfectly inelastic demand.
I remember when we went from MRI 7Am to 5PM to 7AM to 10 PM system. The volume went up. The same patient who is managed conservatively for shoulder pain will have an Shoulder MRI because it is “easy to get”. When we went to a 7/24 hour MRI, our number of MRIs for Stroke went up (the same hospital and same ED without change in their patient caseload). Why? Because the same patient who used to be observed for dizziness after a head CT now goes straight to MRI scanner.
I have several other stories for US, CTA coronary, Breast MRI, PET-CT and etc.
What data do you have to support a long term 10-15% loss of volume and what forecasting software are you using to predict this (R, SAS,…)? Why isn’t it 37.5 % or 23.4 %? Feel free to provide a link to your GitHub code and data source so you can educate us
Professional economists cannot come to a consensus on the speed of the recovery. There are so many uncertain variables. Forming a precise estimate based on uncertain variables results in a garbage prediction.
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Quote from JTG
What data do you have to support a long term 10-15% loss of volume and what forecasting software are you using to predict this (R, SAS,…)? Why isn’t it 37.5 % or 23.4 %? Feel free to provide a link to your GitHub code and data source so you can educate us
Professional economists cannot come to a consensus on the speed of the recovery. There are so many uncertain variables. Forming a precise estimate based on uncertain variables results in a garbage prediction.
1- When did I say long term?? Why do you put words in my mouth? We were talking about 1-2 years.2- Similarly, you don’t have any data to support full recovery of imaging volumes in short term. But as I mentioned before, imaging business is not perfectly inelastic and the experience of previous economic downturns have shown that the volumes will go down and take time to recover 100%.
3- I agree with you that there are a lot of uncertain variables and that’s the KEY POINT. When there is uncertainty, groups won’t hire. PERIOD. You answered your own question and provided a good evidence against your own argument. It seems you know the facts but your personal biases prevent you from coming to right conclusion.
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Quote from Hospital-Rad
Quote from JTG
What data do you have to support a long term 10-15% loss of volume and what forecasting software are you using to predict this (R, SAS,…)? Why isn’t it 37.5 % or 23.4 %? Feel free to provide a link to your GitHub code and data source so you can educate us
Professional economists cannot come to a consensus on the speed of the recovery. There are so many uncertain variables. Forming a precise estimate based on uncertain variables results in a garbage prediction.
1- When did I say long term?? Why do you put words in my mouth? We were talking about 1-2 years.
2- Similarly, you don’t have any data to support full recovery of imaging volumes in short term. But as I mentioned before, imaging business is not perfectly inelastic and the experience of previous economic downturns have shown that the volumes will go down and take time to recover 100%.
3- I agree with you that there are a lot of uncertain variables and that’s the KEY POINT. When there is uncertainty, groups won’t hire. PERIOD. You answered your own question and provided a good evidence against your own argument. It seems you know the facts but your personal biases prevent you from coming to right conclusion.
This downturn is not like any other in recent history as in this one the economy was healthy before and we turned it off. Therefore extrapolating other significantly different downturns to this one is inaccurate
I never made an exact forecast as you did as that is beyond my capability. I am following the data which shows that we already hit a trough in volumes and it is increasing. I cannot predict the slope or duration of the ascent as you claim you can. The job market will lag this increase.
Please educate us by providing a link to your GitHub account with your data and code that helped you to arrive at a 10-15% radiology volume loss for the next 1-2 years.
[b] [/b][i] [/i][u][/u][strike][/strike]
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CA. Volumes are increasing for us, compared to 2-3 weeks ago; especially noncovid ER.
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Ya. CA too. Seems our regular ER BS is near back too. Was nice when it was at about 20% at its lull. Now probably 80%.
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Forget about the volumes. I need a haircut and my wife won’t do it.
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Quote from AKOMAN
Seems our regular ER BS is near back too. Was nice when it was at about 20% at its lull. Now probably 80%.
Yeah the BS complaints are showing up more. Higher rate of negative stuff.
Nadir of volume was about a month ago. Not sure we’ll ever see anything like this again.-
Interestingly I noticed the ACR job board was down to 702 a couple days ago and now it’s surged to 740 in two days. Goes along with a definite increase in volumes over the past 1-2 weeks.
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Most of the jobs still look corporate, but seeing some academic based positions as well
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Anyone have any data on changes in payer base from insured to self pay, Medicaid, as people become unemployed?
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That data will lag the unemployment rate by a loooonnnnngggg time
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Nice to see most of the recent AM threads about actual Radiology. That means things are getting better — at least on here.
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Goldman Sachs estimating 25% unemployment rate recovering, but still 10% a year out. That’s a stat as bad as the worst of the great recession even a year from now.
KFF estimating that 27 million people are losing their health insurance.
Those things are going to significantly ding both volume and reimbursements for a while.
I think radiology job market for 2021 is going to be pretty bad, maybe 2022 as well. -
Quote from dergon
Goldman Sachs estimating 25% unemployment rate recovering, but still 10% a year out. That’s a stat as bad as the worst of the great recession even a year from now.
KFF estimating that 27 million people are losing their health insurance.
Those things are going to significantly ding both volume and reimbursements for a while.
I think radiology job market for 2021 is going to be pretty bad, maybe 2022 as well.
I appreciate your references above. There are too many variables to have a forecast even 3 months out without a huge range of possible outcomes landing within a 95% confidence interval. Any prediction beyond that time frame is garbage.
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We are a large healthcare system in the epicenter of the epicenter. Our volumes have gone up tremendously and we have started the hiring process just this last week. I don’t know what all this negativity is all about. I get it, it will take some time – months but def not years to come close to where we were in the pre-covid era.
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Quote from Scared!
We are a large healthcare system in the epicenter of the epicenter. Our volumes have gone up tremendously and we have started the hiring process just this last week.[b] I don’t know what all this negativity is all about. [/b]I get it, it will take some time – months but def not years to come close to where we were in the pre-covid era.
Your experience is exception and not the norm. Official numbers (and not anecdotes) are out there that show 50% decline in volume in the last month which has partly recovered. But full recovery takes 1-2 years.
We have beaten this topic to death before. A 10% decline in volume across the board can turn a healthy job market into a bad job market. -
Quote from dergon
Goldman Sachs estimating 25% unemployment rate recovering, but still 10% a year out. That’s a stat as bad as the worst of the great recession even a year from now.
KFF estimating that 27 million people are losing their health insurance.
Those things are going to significantly ding both volume and reimbursements for a while.
I think radiology job market for 2021 is going to be pretty bad, maybe 2022 as well.
I agree with your prediction. It takes 1-2 years for the job market to recover.
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We’re at 72% of volume now. Our hospital administration has temporarily cancelled monthly RVU requirements. (You need to at least make 50th percentile on a monthly basis or you pop up on their radar).
A 10% decrease in total RVUs for our department would, if the compensation plan remains unchanged in 2021, lead to sizable pay cuts for the radiologists. (Same goes for the other specialty groups who are comped similarly).
I won’t really know how this changes our hiring plans into 2021 and 2022 until the late fall. If we’re back to 90-ish percent of our pre-covid levels we’ll likely be OK (we were short-staffed beforehand). If we’re more in the 80s then I am pretty certain we will see a freeze.
I can tell you that, regardless of what leadership wants, if individual rads are slated to take pay cuts in 2021 because their RVU productivity slid in 2020 there is going to be loud wailing to not hire until everyone’s comp gets back up again.
I’ll follow up in October.
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Ohio – we were back to 70% volumes Monday.
