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  • UPS to 170K driver pay…. in response to WaPo thread

    Posted by kiqbns_134 on August 9, 2023 at 1:46 pm

    [link=https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/09/ups-drivers-to-average-170000-in-pay-benefits-at-end-of-5-year-deal.html]https://www.cnbc.com/2023…nd-of-5-year-deal.html[/link]
     
    350k to go through med school and not earn till 30 or just start driving trucks at 18?
     
    This does prove the necessity for us to unionize against medicare and insurance

    smfst7_929 replied 10 months, 2 weeks ago 13 Members · 22 Replies
  • 22 Replies
  • mircea.cg_544

    Member
    August 9, 2023 at 2:10 pm

    Union power in full display. Happy for the ups folks. Why do I think shipping prices will go up?

    • Zuleyka

      Member
      August 9, 2023 at 3:09 pm

      Agree with unionizing.
       
      I think many of us would agree it is far better in many ways to be a doctor than a UPS driver, regardless of pay. But maybe not everyone feels that way.

      • Unknown Member

        Deleted User
        August 9, 2023 at 5:17 pm

        this was based on a UPS salary of 60k

        [link=http://www.er-doctor.com/doctor_income.html]http://www.er-doctor.com/doctor_income.html[/link]
         

        • ruszja

          Member
          August 9, 2023 at 5:26 pm

          You do know how hard these guys actually work ?

          • Patrick

            Member
            August 9, 2023 at 5:56 pm

            Agree with Fwd: Not all hard work is cognitive!

            • adrianoal

              Member
              August 9, 2023 at 6:07 pm

              Quote from NYC

              Agree with Fwd: Not all hard work is cognitive!

               
              should pay be based on effort? if so, should anyone make more than $1M/year?

            • Unknown Member

              Deleted User
              August 9, 2023 at 6:16 pm

              I had a friend who was a ups driver. 
              He was pushed hard, the trucks apparently suck, especially in bad weather, and if anything goes wrong the drivers are always to blame.
              The Holidays were particularly stressful.
              I have no comment on the wages, but it was no cake walk.
               
              I was in a long line at a subway shop recently, and a young kid was the only employee working. Lots of demanding folks. Seemed very stressful to me; but he was so composed; impressed me. I told him so and gave him a big tip. That kid was only about 17, he is gong to be successful in something one day.
               
              A lot of “menial” jobs, especially service jobs, can be stressful. 

              • Patrick

                Member
                August 9, 2023 at 6:43 pm

                Just like medicine, I promise most people cant ring the gauntlet of working for UPS. Medicine is hard work. Long training. A lot of BS! But, I dont begrudge the UPS gang anything. Most people would quit after a few weeks based on what I have seen.

                • benoit.elens

                  Member
                  August 9, 2023 at 7:34 pm

                  You couldn’t pay me enough to do any kind of delivery.  It’s a dangerous job.  Postal workers getting killed by dogs, Uber Eats deliverers getting killed and dismembered, DoorDashers getting shot.  There are so many nut jobs and meth heads with guns, knives, and pitbulls – just ain’t worth it.  I salute all those in the industry.
                   
                  If you get to sip on your americano while scrolling with your mouse, and talking into the ether – count your blessings.

                  • Unknown Member

                    Deleted User
                    August 10, 2023 at 1:28 am

                    To be clear – I don’t think we are saying UPS drivers are not worth 170k.

                    CLEARLY – they are. The company can pay it, and the company makes it work.

                    Point it (of course)  the company will keep whatever it can unless forced.
                    And companies employing physicians are no different.
                     

                    • DanielQuilli

                      Member
                      August 10, 2023 at 2:53 am

                      The number includes health care costs and pension and (probably) lots of overtime pay, attention grabbing headline that is misleading. Their actual take home pay is probably very fair and in-line with a physically demanding job.
                       
                      its very expensive to employ people in the US, take an MR tech for example, if you add in all the benefits and overhead and overtime you would get a similar or higher omg number.

                    • adrianoal

                      Member
                      August 10, 2023 at 6:06 am

                      Quote from Rolf Rad

                      To be clear – I don’t think we are saying UPS drivers are not worth 170k.

                      CLEARLY – they are. The company can pay it, and the company makes it work.

                      Point it (of course)  the company will keep whatever it can unless forced.
                      And companies employing physicians are no different.

                       
                      I’m all for UPS drivers making whatever they can. If we can figure out a way that everyone can be rich I’m all for that too. Would love to live in a Star Trek-ish post-scarcity society.
                       
                      But, there is something odd about the way most people celebrate UPS drivers getting what seems like solid pay (“yeah, stick it to the man!”) and yet every time MD pay is discussed the internet is full of “greedy doctors!!”. 
                       
                      It’s like the acceptable pay range, for any profession, is $100k-$200k.

                    • jeevonbenning_648

                      Member
                      August 10, 2023 at 6:26 am

                      That’s called communism. aka the final stages of capitalism.

                    • ruszja

                      Member
                      August 10, 2023 at 7:03 am

                      As non-college jobs go, its one of the better ones out there. The drivers work a very regular schedule. You have your route and that is what you do (unless you bid on additional shifts to fill in for someone on vacation). There are other gigs that pay well like lineman for the power company or conductor for the railroad. But those jobs come with shitty schedules, on-call, middle of the night call-outs, overnight travel, stay at cheap motels etc. In addition, they can be physically demanding and come with the dangers of high voltage electricity and heavy equipment.

                    • joshua.glaze_811

                      Member
                      August 10, 2023 at 8:50 am

                      FYI
                      It’s 170k total comp.
                      100k salary and 70k benefits.
                       
                       

                    • ruszja

                      Member
                      August 10, 2023 at 9:58 am

                      Quote from NYPhD

                      FYI
                      It’s 170k total comp.
                      100k salary and 70k benefits.

                      Gold plated union healthcare, 25k tuition assistance and a pension after 25 to 30 years. The current average ‘package’ is 145k btw.

                      Like any seniority based job, the younger kids work harder for their money and the older drivers hold the cush routes. According to my neighbor, those are the residntial routes with a lot of driving or multiple stops at office buildings with central receiving (where one clerk signs for multiple parcels).

                      It’s a time value of money thing. You get on board at 19 or 20 you are ready to buy a house by 23. Even if your lifetime earnings still lag behind someone who gets a graduate degree, the early start and continuing ramp up keep you ahead for a long time.

                      And chicks dig ‘the man in brown’ with muscular calves.

                    • tdetlie_105

                      Member
                      August 10, 2023 at 4:17 pm

                      Quote from fw

                      Quote from NYPhD

                      FYI
                      It’s 170k total comp.
                      100k salary and 70k benefits.

                      Gold plated union healthcare, 25k tuition assistance and a pension after 25 to 30 years. The current average ‘package’ is 145k btw.

                      Like any seniority based job, the younger kids work harder for their money and the older drivers hold the cush routes. According to my neighbor, those are the residntial routes with a lot of driving or multiple stops at office buildings with central receiving (where one clerk signs for multiple parcels).

                      It’s a time value of money thing. You get on board at 19 or 20 you are ready to buy a house by 23. Even if your lifetime earnings still lag behind someone who gets a graduate degree, the early start and continuing ramp up keep you ahead for a long time.

                      And chicks dig ‘the man in brown’ with muscular calves.

                       
                      Whats the pension like?  My mother in-law retired from teaching about 3 years ago. She put in 30 years and now gets around 80% her former salary in pension (thats my understanding at least).  Clearly new/current teachers are not getting this deal but pretty nice. 

                    • adrianoal

                      Member
                      August 10, 2023 at 4:27 pm

                      state sponsored pensions are solid gold, esp if you can start working ~age 20
                       
                      retire at 50 with nearly same income, inflation adjusted, for life, plus health insurance
                       
                      if you took reasonable care of yourself you have a good shot at 30-40 years to enjoy it
                       
                      you do apparently take a hit on social security though, but still very sweet deal

                    • smfst7_929

                      Member
                      August 11, 2023 at 10:21 am

                      I’d like to see an article about health care administrator salaries and also about the sheer increased number of hospital administrators over time. I would like to see that contrasted with the “growth” in physician salaries.  That would truly be eye opening.  Do we really need all the presidents, VPs, directors, subdirectors etc that we have in current hospital systems? Does the chief nursing officer really deserve 300-500k?  If so, what about chief nursing officers in other countries? Does that even exist?  And do they get paid anywhere close to that?   
                       
                      The WaPO article seems to imply that compared to other countries, doctors here are greedy.  So ridiculous.  Take a doctor salary in Portugal and compare it to the average salary of the country.   They make 4-5 times the average salary and have zero debt and work half as hard. Just recently they threatened to strike to ensure 35 hour workweeks.  How many docs here do you know making 5x the average US salary and working 35 hour workweeks?  Also keep in mind european docs have basically zero student loan debt.  Sure it does exist for some part timers in some specialties, but not the norm.
                       
                      They love comparing apples to oranges saying how we make multiples of docs in other countries.  Funny how they don’t also say that a truck driver here vs. there also makes many more multiples in terms of salary. Anyone think truck drivers are making 170k in europe? The answer is no.  For most jobs in the US, we make multiples of other countries. Ever seen the publicly listed salaries of police officers, fire fighters etc?  A lot of them make over 100k.  I say money well spent.  But in other countries- try maybe 30k a year in Portugal for a police officer. 
                       
                      Overall just dishonest reporting plain and simple.  Cherry pick your own “facts” and present it in a way to demonize “greedy” docs.  Typical of WaPo journalism though.  Eat the rich is their motto.     

                  • jeevonbenning_648

                    Member
                    August 10, 2023 at 5:33 am

                    Fake news.

              • ruszja

                Member
                August 10, 2023 at 5:07 am

                Quote from boomer

                I had a friend who was a ups driver. 
                He was pushed hard, the trucks apparently suck, especially in bad weather, and if anything goes wrong the drivers are always to blame.
                The Holidays were particularly stressful.

                Well, UPS just agreed with the union to install AC in the next generation of trucks. Doesn’t do the driver much good while he humps carts with packages up and down ramps into office buildings or stands out in the heat arguing with some Karen over unmet delivery timelines he has no control over.

                I am afraid this is going to be a pyrrhic victory for the union. Amazons delivery is subcontracted and non-union. If UPS personnel cost runs away like that, someone is going to undercut them.

        • kiqbns_134

          Member
          August 9, 2023 at 6:13 pm

          Quote from Rolf Rad

          this was based on a UPS salary of 60k

          [link=http://www.er-doctor.com/doctor_income.html]http://www.er-doctor.com/doctor_income.html[/link]

           
          Great read. Funny it has addendums at 2008 and 2020.
          IF we could get a nice recession, it might make being a physician seem worth it again. We’ll see if the guberment will allow it to happen sometime soon