[Unknown Member]

I think it safe to safe it has been a cluster F of multiple administrations

[amyelizabethbarrett28_711]

U.S. Army veteran Matt Zeller goes off on MSNBC about Bidens remarks on Afghanistan:

Zeller: I feel like I watched a different speech than the rest of you guys. I was appalled.

[link=https://twitter.com/whitneyleerob/status/1427386966685913092?s=21]https://twitter.com/whitn…27386966685913092?s=21[/link]

Jake Tapper slams Biden: “The president said that the buck stopped with him but, in fact, this speech was full of finger pointing and blame.”

[link=https://twitter.com/thefirstontv/status/1427373108650987524?s=21]https://twitter.com/thefi…27373108650987524?s=21[/link]

U.S. Army veteran Matt Zeller goes off on MSNBC about Biden’s remarks on Afghanistan:

Zeller: “I feel like I watched a different speech than the rest of you guys. I was appalled.” pic.twitter.com/eGC5tMBvy4

— Whitney Patin (@whitneyleepatin) August 16, 2021

[btomba_77]

Quote from acpce1

U.S. Army veteran Matt Zeller goes off on MSNBC about Bidens remarks on Afghanistan:

Zeller: I feel like I watched a different speech than the rest of you guys. I was appalled.

[link=https://twitter.com/whitneyleerob/status/1427386966685913092?s=21]https://twitter.com/whitn…27386966685913092?s=21[/link]

Jake Tapper slams Biden: “The president said that the buck stopped with him but, in fact, this speech was full of finger pointing and blame.”

[link=https://twitter.com/thefirstontv/status/1427373108650987524?s=21]https://twitter.com/thefi…27373108650987524?s=21[/link]

 
Agree with the Tapper take.
 
Biden is generally empathic and takes responsibility and truth tells…
 
 
none of that in this address.  He was defensive, deflecting, finger pointing, and brittle.
 
His worst major public appearance I can think of.

U.S. Army veteran Matt Zeller goes off on MSNBC about Biden’s remarks on Afghanistan:

Zeller: “I feel like I watched a different speech than the rest of you guys. I was appalled.” pic.twitter.com/eGC5tMBvy4

— Whitney Patin (@whitneyleepatin) August 16, 2021

[kaldridgewv2211]

Quote from dergon

Quote from acpce1

U.S. Army veteran Matt Zeller goes off on MSNBC about Bidens remarks on Afghanistan:

Zeller: I feel like I watched a different speech than the rest of you guys. I was appalled.

[link=https://twitter.com/whitneyleerob/status/1427386966685913092?s=21]https://twitter.com/whitn…27386966685913092?s=21[/link]

Jake Tapper slams Biden: “The president said that the buck stopped with him but, in fact, this speech was full of finger pointing and blame.”

[link=https://twitter.com/thefirstontv/status/1427373108650987524?s=21]https://twitter.com/thefi…27373108650987524?s=21[/link]

Agree with the Tapper take.

Biden is generally empathic and takes responsibility and truth tells…

none of that in this address.  He was defensive, deflecting, finger pointing, and brittle.

His worst major public appearance I can think of.

It’s almost like he has blinders on.  I think almost anyone and everyone except for maybe people advising him saw this coming.  If you look back in this thread I think the sentiment is the Taliban would run through that country like poop through a goose.  
 
One of the things that is maybe most surprising is that there was no plan to remove people that helped the USA and are going to be cannon fodder for the taliban.  I feel like we probably could’ve secures an area around the airport to get people out in an orderly manner.  There’s like this big think about the taliban would start attacking our troops.  Give the military an ROE of kill taliban on site.

U.S. Army veteran Matt Zeller goes off on MSNBC about Biden’s remarks on Afghanistan:

Zeller: “I feel like I watched a different speech than the rest of you guys. I was appalled.” pic.twitter.com/eGC5tMBvy4

— Whitney Patin (@whitneyleepatin) August 16, 2021

[amyelizabethbarrett28_711]

DICOM said One of the things that is maybe most surprising is that there was no plan to remove people that helped the USA and are going to be cannon fodder for the taliban. I feel like we probably could’ve secures an area around the airport to get people out in an orderly manner. There’s like this big think about the taliban would start attacking our troops. Give the military an ROE of kill taliban on site.

Agree with this. Its almost like they shouldve brought in a lot more troops right at the beginning to secure the area, get everyone out who wants/needs/deserves to get out, and then have the skilled military close the doors behind them on the way out.

[amyelizabethbarrett28_711]

Having desperate Afghan civilians/allies running after and jumping on American cargo planes at they takeoff is about as bad as you can get as far as optics. Disgraceful.

[Unknown Member]

What would you do at this point?

[kayla.meyer_144]

It would have been Saigon 1975 all over again regardless even if every person and family was brought out who helped us. So many others would have wanted to escape. You can’t tell me all of those people crowding were only those who helped us and worried about being found out by the Taliban. There are a lot of people who fear the Taliban’s fundamentalist rule.

[kaldridgewv2211]

Quote from Frumious

It would have been Saigon 1975 all over again regardless even if every person and family was brought out who helped us. So many others would have wanted to escape. You can’t tell me all of those people crowding were only those who helped us and worried about being found out by the Taliban. There are a lot of people who fear the Taliban’s fundamentalist rule.

the south Vietnamese fought for something like 2 or 3 years post Saigon.  The Afghans rolled over.  I get that most of them fear the taliban.  They’re saying store owners won’t open without getting taliban permission.  Any pictures of women are being painted over.  You’re seeing Sharia barbarism go back into full implement.  

[kayla.meyer_144]

I don’t understand either.
 
And yet Biden is being criticized for noting the Afghans did not have the stomach to fight the Taliban as blaming the victim.
 
South Vietnam surrendered April 30, 1975, the reason everyone was so desperate to get on those helicopters in those photos.
 
[link=https://www.upi.com/Archives/1975/04/30/Vietnam-surrenders-Americans-gone/8078951242093/]https://www.upi.com/Archi…ns-gone/8078951242093/[/link]
 
[link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind ]https://en.wikipedia.org/…on_Frequent_Wind [/link]
 
 

[kaldridgewv2211]

Quote from Frumious

I don’t understand either.

And yet Biden is being criticized for noting the Afghans did not have the stomach to fight the Taliban as blaming the victim.

South Vietnam surrendered April 30, 1975, the reason everyone was so desperate to get on those helicopters in those photos.

[link=https://www.upi.com/Archives/1975/04/30/Vietnam-surrenders-Americans-gone/8078951242093/]https://www.upi.com/Archi…ns-gone/8078951242093/[/link]

[link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind]https://en.wikipedia.org/…on_Frequent_Wind [/link]

I’m probably mis-phrasing.  America withdrew earlier.  The south Vietnamese fought for 2 years before surrendering.
vs the Afghans who lasted about a week.

[kaldridgewv2211]

Quote from acpce1

Having desperate Afghan civilians/allies running after and jumping on American cargo planes at they takeoff is about as bad as you can get as far as optics. Disgraceful.

2 sides of the coin.  Some of the globemasters are loaded with 800 people I’ve heard.  Way past what it’s rated to fly but the Air Force did it anyway.

[kayla.meyer_144]

As John Kerry said in 1971, “[b]How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?[/b]”
 
I do NOT agree with Tapper and all the other critics. Yeah, Biden sounded defensive but under the circumstances, how well would any of us, including Tapper do? What is the critics’ solution, more of the same? 20 more years of supporting a government that can’t stand on its own? 20 more years of supporting a military that can’t stand on its own even though it outnumbered the Taliban, 180,000-307,000 Afghan military troops vs maybe 55,000-85,000 Taliban? And the Afghanis with American weapons, at least before they left them in the field to arm the Taliban?
 
I do blame the politicians including Biden for not evacuating the Afghani who helped us who now are targets for revenge killings by the Taliban. But this war was a disaster from the start having proxy warlords “win” the war for us while allowing bin Laden to escape to Pakistan and we moved our actual efforts to Saddam and Iraq, another disastrous circle jerk of failure.
 
No, the reality was this was Vietnam Redux, unwinnable. This was not WWII and an unconditional surrender of the enemy. We flucked up for 20 years. Again, when many in Afghanistan say it’s a coin toss about trusting the Afghani
government or the Taliban, you know we have lost. Badly.
 
I feel sorry for the private contractor companies who will lose so much income as they gouged the American government for enormous profits in the pockets of their C-suite all these 20 years and theaters.
 
[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/16/opinion/afghanistan-war-veteran.html]https://www.nytimes.com/2…istan-war-veteran.html[/link]
 

Decades of war are dissolved in weeks. [b]The Taliban advance with a speed that reminds me of the American conquest of Baghdad. There are other similarities: Taliban troops enter the gilded compounds of our corrupt Afghan allies and marvel at the evidence of years of American aid stolen by their former government leaders.[/b]
 
The hawks still circle and screech. The voices from the past 20 years who prodded us forward into battle return to the evening news to sell us on staying. Its not too late, the former generals, secretaries and ambassadors say. More troops can hold the line. Victory is just around the corner.
 
[b]But the speed of the Talibans advance makes clear that this outcome was always inevitable. The enemy had no reason to negotiate, and no reputation for restraint. The only question before President Biden was how many American soldiers should die before it happened.[/b] But if leaving now was the right decision for America, it is a catastrophe for the Afghan people whom we have betrayed.
 
The Afghans are forced back into living under religious tyranny, an existence made all the more painful by their brief experience with freedom. Now they see the light from the far end of a dark tunnel. 
 
There is more than enough blame to go around. After all, without those of us who volunteered thered be nobody to fight these wars. I long to appear before the young man I was, to slap his face, and tell him to take a different course. Youre going to die over there, I want to say. Not in body, but in spirit. But he is gone, and I will spend the rest of my life staring at his shadow.
 
And finally, there are my fellow Americans, Republicans, Democrats and independents alike, who voted repeatedly over 20 years for those presidents and members of Congress to mislead and mismanage us to defeat. This national shame is a millstone around all our necks.

 
 
 

[kayla.meyer_144]

My question is when do we see the next installment of Rambo movies, this time about Afghanistan? 
 
Rambo goes into Afghanistan to do what the American & Afghan militaries could not, would not do – get the bad guys.
 
[attachment=0]
 

[satyanar]

Quote from Frumious

I do blame the politicians including Biden for not evacuating the Afghani who helped us who now are targets for revenge killings by the Taliban. 

 
This is the part that really bothers me. How can he justify not working through  the backlog of visa requests for these people before pulling out? Where is the compassion Joe is so proud of?

[satyanar]

Quote from Frumious

It would have been Saigon 1975 all over again regardless even if every person and family was brought out who helped us. So many others would have wanted to escape. You can’t tell me all of those people crowding were only those who helped us and worried about being found out by the Taliban. There are a lot of people who fear the Taliban’s fundamentalist rule.

How about starting with the ones we made direct promises to? The ones our soldiers worked directly with and assumed would have been taken care of? Stop with the slippery slope BS. And yes, I realize DJT would not have cared one bit. But Joe! Say it ain’t so Joe!

[Unknown Member]

Again what do you do now

We have had complaints and suggestions from 4 administrations

For the past 5-6years the republicans have been a louder voice than the democrats for us to get out.

So what
Do you now?

Last fall Trump and Pompeo thumped their chest about a deal with the Taliban and said Afghans would decide their own destiny

Trump administration drew down our troops to around 2000 January 17 before Biden took office

I totally agree the final pullout has been a clusterF that is on
Biden but

What
Do you
Do now?

Again Ive been there and I have
Always had my doubts about the Afghans formation of a country to our liking

Unfortunately the taliban is what the majority of the Afghans want or else theyd fight for it

I see no other option but immediately withdraw

Just my 2 cents

I know a lot of guys I did my tour with feel the same

[satyanar]

Fine. Withdraw immediately but at least figure out how to bring those we promised visas to (and their families) to come with us.
 
You’ve been there. Did you forge any relationships with Afghans that helped keep you informed and maybe even keep you alive?

[kayla.meyer_144]

Funny. All the anti-immigration attitudes from the Right and about keeping Muslims out of the country for a couple of years now and now suddenly the solution is to open the US to all those Afghan refugees!
 
Yes, I am sure they would all have been welcomed with open arms as we have welcomed the Iraqi and Syrian refugees fleeing terror.

[satyanar]

Quote from Frumious

Funny. All the anti-immigration attitudes from the Right and about keeping Muslims out of the country for a couple of years now and now suddenly the solution is to open the US to all those Afghan refugees!

Yes, I am sure they would all have been welcomed with open arms as we have welcomed the Iraqi and Syrian refugees fleeing terror.

 
Frumi you are a miserable suffering ****. I already said there is no way DJT would have fixed that problem. I have supported welcoming them for years. I thought it was your job as a liberal to fight those that won’t welcome them.
 
I honestly thought that moderate Joe would help them, not turn his back on them. Believe it or not I voted for the guy.

[Unknown Member]

You’ve been there. Did you forge any relationships with Afghans that helped keep you informed and maybe even keep you alive?

Honestly not really. I was mainly involved in medical triage and supply chain maintenance more on the infrastructure side

The locals we dealt with to be honest were trying to extort us for anything they could

Im not discounting what you are saying and Im sure many we’re helpful to the guys directly in the line of fire but honestly from my perspective the Afghans I personally dealt with were looking for ways to make money off us

[satyanar]

Quote from Chirorad84

You’ve been there. Did you forge any relationships with Afghans that helped keep you informed and maybe even keep you alive?

Honestly not really. I was mainly involved in medical triage and supply chain maintenance more on the infrastructure side

The locals we dealt with to be honest were trying to extort us for anything they could

Im not discounting what you are saying and Im sure many we’re helpful to the guys directly in the line of fire but honestly from my perspective the Afghans I personally dealt with were looking for ways to make money off us

 
Thanks. I get that. Good reason to withdraw. 
 
I keep hearing from those that did work closely with Afghans that were literally putting their life on the line. We made promises to them. Other administrations would not honor the promises. I honestly thought Joe would. Sorry for my disappointment.

[Unknown Member]

I was there early on

Things may have been different lately but according to my friends who were still involved it doesnt seem that way

Also Im sure everyones experience was different

I wasnt on the ground getting sniper fire much so I cant speak for those people

But 20 years, I think is enough and getting out of an unwinnable conflict was probably never going to end well

Just my 2 cents

[amyelizabethbarrett28_711]

Abandonment. Ordered by the President of the United States.  

The below note went out this afternoon to American citizens requesting to be evacuated from Afghanistan,
@alanacbs
reports. It instructs people to come to Hamid Karzai Intl Airport in Kabul, but says the US govt cannot guarantee their safety as they make the trip.
@CBSNews

[link=https://twitter.com/saraecook/status/1427693329249099795?s=21]https://twitter.com/sarae…27693329249099795?s=21[/link]

The below note went out this afternoon to American citizens requesting to be evacuated from Afghanistan, @alanacbs reports. It instructs people to come to Hamid Karzai Intl Airport in Kabul, but says the US govt cannot guarantee their safety as they make the trip. @CBSNews pic.twitter.com/rgEyjGup4K

— Sara Cook (@saraecook) August 17, 2021

[kayla.meyer_144]

When does RAMBO AFGHANISTAN! open in theaters?

[amyelizabethbarrett28_711]

glad you find it amusing.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Quote from acpce1

glad you find it amusing.

I am curious, please explain your plan for how Biden should have proceeded.

[amyelizabethbarrett28_711]

Increase troop presence before the withdrawal. Create a safe perimeter around Bagram air base. If Taliban resistance occurs during this, squash it. Military escort of all those who need to leave the country to the base. Escort all the necessary individuals out before the military leaves. Have the military close the door on the way out.

[amyelizabethbarrett28_711]

By the way I didnt make this up. Read it from a former Secret Service agent and thought it sounded reasonable.

[Unknown Member]

I agree the final withdrawal was totally blown by us

And Biden is responsible for most of it

What Im hearing is someone really thought the Afghan army
Would at least try to defend the
Capital

They were
Wrong

[satyanar]

I’m hearing everything is going to be OK because the Taliban has “changed”.

[clickpenguin_460]

Quote from Chirorad84

I agree the final withdrawal was totally blown by us

And Biden is responsible for most of it

What Im hearing is someone really thought the Afghan army
Would at least try to defend the
Capital

They were
Wrong

 
There are a lot of things that make me mad across 20 years and 4 presidents but man…how can you waste billions of dollars training and equipping an army for that amount of time that just caves in a weekend?
 
Total failure.  Honestly, it exposes the waste of resources and money into the military that funds nonsense stuff we don’t need as well as a complete lack of actual leadership as opposed to “political favor” leadership (aka lack of promotion because you’re good at military stuff in favor of you’re good at kissing D or R butt)
 
The whole leadership need to be questioned in exit interviews and fired if needed.  The whole budget needs to be audited.
 
 

[btomba_77]

Its going to be a catastrophe

It was always going to be a catastrophe

Maybe the Afghan army held Kabul and it turned into a brutal civil war

Maybe the Taliban took over

But the pictures of chaos and death and evil were *always* going to come

[kaldridgewv2211]

They risk any shot at legitimacy if they go on a killing spree. However, its being reported theyre door to door looking for people.

Another good listen. Foereign Office with Michael Weiss. He had on Thomas Johnson who is an Afghanistan scholar at the Naval Institute. Seems like a educated opinion.

[satyanar]

Quote from dergon

Its going to be a catastrophe

It was always going to be a catastrophe

Maybe the Afghan army held Kabul and it turned into a brutal civil war

Maybe the Taliban took over

But the pictures of chaos and death and evil were *always* going to come

 
Yes, of course they were to some degree. However, why not listen to your intelligence community to come up with a reasonable plan to avoid this absolutely chaotic scenario? I mean even the idiot DJT listened to his advisors on this one when told what would happen.

[ruszja]

I don’t believe that there was ‘no alternative’ to this hasty retreat. The US has maintained bases in south Korea and Europe for the past 70 years and has provided ongoing military aid to various ‘partners’ to support an objective of just ‘being there’. The posture in south Korea is a defensive one, we are not there to invade the PRK.

There would definitely have been the alternative of maintaining a presence in Bhagram, funding a contractor force to train and maintain the afghan air force and support the ANA with training and supplies. Would the ongoing expense be worth it ? The alternative is a return to the 1996-2001 situation we are now observing. We’ll see in 10 years whether the cost of that alternative is higher or lower than maintaining a base and military aid to the ‘mayor of Kabul’.

[btomba_77]

Of course there was an alternative.  
 
Biden wanted all the way out. (So did Trump)  …    “We’ll see in 10 years” indeed.

[amyelizabethbarrett28_711]

This is going to be the biggest hostage situation in history. Our defense secretary just said that we do not have the capability of extracting large numbers of individuals from Afghanistan.

This is really really bad.

From what I read, Afghanistan has $10 billion, including 22 tons of gold here in the US that the Taliban cant touch. But theyve got some negotiating chips in the corner.

I feel so sad for those affected.

[btomba_77]

[h1][b]Trump Ex-Defense Chief Says Administration Pledge to Withdraw Was a Ruse[/b][/h1]  
President Donald Trumps top national security officials never intended to pull all U.S. troops out of Afghanistan, according to new statements by Chris Miller, Trumps last acting defense secretary, [link=https://www.defenseone.com/policy/2021/08/trumps-pledge-exit-afghanistan-was-ruse-his-final-secdef-says/184660/]Defense One[/link] reports.
 
 
Miller said the presidents public promise to finish withdrawing U.S. forces by May 1, as negotiated with the Taliban, was actually a play that masked the Trump administrations true intentions: to convince Afghan President Ashraf Ghani to quit or accept a bitter power-sharing agreement with the Taliban, and to keep some U.S. troops in Afghanistan for counterrorism missions.
 
Said Miller: We werent just going to head for the door We were going to jam Ghani hard and make him cut a deal with the Taliban. It would have been ugly. It wouldnt have been great. But there was no plan to just leave.
 
 
_____
 
(( I don’t buy it … smells like revisionist history.  Trump always wanted out for real))

[Unknown Member]

He was just kidding

[kaldridgewv2211]

Quote from acpce1

Our defense secretary just said that we do not have the capability of extracting large numbers of individuals from Afghanistan.

At Wright-Patterson in Ohio I believe we have the air force extraction teams.  It’s hard for me to buy that.  We can fly in X number of tanks, vehicles, supplies but we can’t extract people.
 
We certainly have the ability to go taliban hunting.

[satyanar]

Quote from dergon

[h1][b]Trump Ex-Defense Chief Says Administration Pledge to Withdraw Was a Ruse[/b][/h1]  
President Donald Trumps top national security officials never intended to pull all U.S. troops out of Afghanistan, according to new statements by Chris Miller, Trumps last acting defense secretary, [link=https://www.defenseone.com/policy/2021/08/trumps-pledge-exit-afghanistan-was-ruse-his-final-secdef-says/184660/]Defense One[/link] reports.

Miller said the presidents public promise to finish withdrawing U.S. forces by May 1, as negotiated with the Taliban, was actually a play that masked the Trump administrations true intentions: to convince Afghan President Ashraf Ghani to quit or accept a bitter power-sharing agreement with the Taliban, and to keep some U.S. troops in Afghanistan for counterrorism missions.

Said Miller: We werent just going to head for the door We were going to jam Ghani hard and make him cut a deal with the Taliban. It would have been ugly. It wouldnt have been great. But there was no plan to just leave.

_____

(( I don’t buy it … smells like revisionist history.  Trump always wanted out for real))

 
I find it amusing to say “my sources” but listening to one of his previous national security advisors talk about it, it didn’t really matter what DJT “wanted”. If he was fed the information properly he would go along. This was probably an intelligence/military plan that he agreed to behind closed doors. He clearly is not smart enough to come up with himself.

[kaldridgewv2211]

The GOP is trying hard to scrub Trumps history on Afghanistan. Unfortunately hes on YouTube one too many times saying the stuff out loud.

[satyanar]

Quote from DICOM_Dan

The GOP is trying hard to scrub Trumps history on Afghanistan. Unfortunately hes on YouTube one too many times saying the stuff out loud.

 
Trump said a lot of stuff out loud that was then contradicted by his advisors and even himself. Trying to cover that up is of little value. Everyone knows he did no better than the rest but at least he listened to his advisors when they said it would not be a good idea to withdraw rapidly and completely. 
 
Biden and his advisors just seem to have made a complete mockery of the situation. I guess you can give them credit for doing what they said they were going to do. Got to love honesty. I know the Taliban sure were happy to be given the information. They certainly were ready to go once it happened.

[fahma066_701]

Blame Trump all you want. This was Bidens call. Just own it and stop pointing the finger.

[fahma066_701]

Blame Trump all you want. This was Bidens call. Just own it and stop pointing the finger.

[fahma066_701]

Blame Trump all you want. This was Bidens call. Own it. Stop pointing fingers.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Both sides, mrctus, both sides.

[fahma066_701]

Blame Trump all you want. This was Bidens call. Own it. Stop pointing fingers.

[ruszja]

Quote from Nutty Buddha

Biden and his advisors just seem to have made a complete mockery of the situation. I guess you can give them credit for doing what they said they were going to do. Got to love honesty. I know the Taliban sure were happy to be given the information. They certainly were ready to go once it happened.

Bidens advisors told him not to do this but I guess he wanted to appear decisive.

The US has maintained ‘Camp Bondsteel’ in Kosovo since 1999. There was no reason to give up Bagram.

[btomba_77]

[b]Bidens Approach to Afghanistan Was Sealed In 2009[/b][/h1]  
 
To understand President Joe Bidens decision to withdraw troops from Afghanistan against the advice of the US military establishment, you need to go back to a debate that played out more than a decade ago, during the early years of Barack Obamas presidency, [link=https://www.vox.com/2021/8/18/22629135/biden-afghanistan-withdrawal-reasons]Vox[/link] reports.
In 2009, the new Obama administration debated whether to surge troop levels in Afghanistan after nearly eight years of war had failed to quell the insurgency from the overthrown Taliban forces. Top generals asked early that year for 17,000 more US troops and then, having gotten those, asked for an additional 40,000 to try to weaken the Taliban and strengthen the Afghan government.
 
Then-Vice President Biden was consistently one of the biggest skeptics of the militarys recommendations. Throughout months of debate, he repeatedly raised the inconvenient point that the generals preferred strategy seemed extremely unlikely to lead to actual victory.

 

[kaldridgewv2211]

disappointing seeing the TAliban getting hands on all that american equipment like Humvees abondonded by the afghan army.  We really should consider bombing that stuff to deprive them from it.

[amyelizabethbarrett28_711]

Biden, just lying through his teeth to the entire World on live TV about something as critical as American hostages. The media is done covering up for him.

.
@DavidMuir
: “The president said he has no intelligence that the Americans have not been able to get [to the Kabul airport]. The question, obviouslydoes that square with reporting on ground?”

@IanPannell
: “I meanjust totally not.”

[link]https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1428786222990778370[/link]

[Unknown Member]

If its on Twitter

It mustve true

I get my news from social fng media

[clickpenguin_460]

Honestly, it’s not Biden’s fault.  He’s clearly lost in the world of dementia.
 
I have no idea what KHarris is doing though or why his generals are all “yes men.”

[kaldridgewv2211]

Ever known anyone with dementia. He must be the highest functioning dementia patient in the history of the disease.

[clickpenguin_460]

Quote from DICOM_Dan

Ever known anyone with dementia. He must be the highest functioning dementia patient in the history of the disease.

 
You know they have lucid intervals.  That’s why he is hiding all the time.  It’s also early stage clearly.   I mean even if you support the guy, you must think it’s not appropriate for him to not take questions, always be scripted, hide away all the time, etc. 
 
Perhaps ABC should release the entire footage of the George Steph. interview and we can both watch every second of it and then we can decide what we think of Biden’s condition?  Would that be fair?
 
Heck I support him because he is our President, but I want to know where his head is at.  Trump was always forced to talk, give interviews, etc. and he did them anyway knowing he would stay stupid stuff and people would attack him relentlessly – remember Sarah Sanders too? geez.  Talk about pig to the slaughter.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Could have been done better right up there with Mistakes were made after 20 years of somehow not able to do better.
 
20/20 armchair quarterbacking hindsight.
 
If Afghan could not, WOULD NOT defend their own country against the Taliban, why are we to blame as if we did not try? We are at the point of arguing that we should have got every single Afghan out of there who wanted to leave before the Afghans allowed the Taliban to literally walk in.
 
How does that make sense.
 
I give Biden credit for biting the bullet instead of lingering on or evacuating the country, as if that was a rational alternative.

[amyelizabethbarrett28_711]

Chiro rad said If its on Twitter

It mustve true

I get my news from social fng media

The Twitter link is to a ABC news story of an ABC international news reporter on the ground in Afghanistan contradicting exactly what Joe Biden just lied about.

You are ignorant and incorrigible, Chiro.

[clickpenguin_460]

They are shouting death to America but at the same time they seem to be good friendly people!

[kayla.meyer_144]

Quote from Cubsfan10

They are shouting death to America but at the same time they seem to be good friendly people!

You left out the rest of the quote.

[ruszja]

Quote from DICOM_Dan

Ever known anyone with dementia. He must be the highest functioning dementia patient in the history of the disease.

It’s not dementia. He was just never that bright to start with. Then add some loss of frontal cortex due to subarachnoid hemorrhage and retraction injury and the end result is ‘stable functional’.

[btomba_77]

[link=http://rssfeeds.usatoday.com/~/663320732/0/usatodaycomwashington-topstories~Pence-aide-blames-Stephen-Miller-for-devastating-visa-system-for-Afghans/]Pence aide blames Stephen Miller for ‘devastating’ visa system for Afghans[/link]

A former aide to former Vice President Mike Pence blamed racist views of a top Trump administration official for the inability of many translators and other allies to get out of Afghanistan before the U.S. withdrew troops.
 
[link=https://twitter.com/OliviaTroye/status/1428740865665679361]Olivia Troye tweeted that Stephen Miller[/link], a senior adviser to former President Donald Trump, teamed up with enablers to undermine anyone trying to get the allies out by devastating the special immigrant visa system at the departments of State and Homeland Security.
 
Stephen Miller would peddle his racist hysteria about Iraq & Afghanistan, tweeted Troye. She described Pence as fully aware of the problem.

 

[kayla.meyer_144]

2 takeaways from the Iraq/Afghanistan wars, trusting the militarys assessments alone that we are always winning & on the verge of a total win, if only they had a little more time and men is a recipe for total failure.
 
Further, the lack of a draft & public participation leaves the public largely ignorant & indifferent to the issues concerning wars where the vast majority are isolated from such wars.

[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/22/us/afghanistan-war-us-reaction.html]https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/22/us/afghanistan-war-us-reaction.html[/link]

There will almost certainly be soul searching in military think tanks and war colleges, just as there was after the Vietnam War, said Jason Dempsey, a retired Army lieutenant colonel who deployed twice to Afghanistan, and wrote [link=https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691142258/our-army]a book[/link] about military and civilians relations. But one unintended lasting lesson, he added, may be the military now knows how to conduct a war that can go on indefinitely, what he called the upper limit of how much you can spend on a war indefinitely, both in cash and lives, without people paying too much attention.
 
One lasting impression the public may take away from Afghanistan, he said, is that the military is not so much a heroic problem solver as a vast federal bureaucracy that doesnt always do well when its generals are allowed to assess their own performance.
 
For years the military graded its own homework and said it was winning, said Mr. Dempsey And civilians started wondering if we should be in Afghanistan, but did they call their congressmen? Did they protest in the street? No. Because there is no personal sacrifice. [b][i]Its easy to ignore a catastrophe when it isnt yours[/i][/b].
 
At the Army posts museum, Afghanistan is already [link=https://twitter.com/David_Philipps/status/1428757784997376011]an exhibit[/link], complete with oil paintings of notable battles, showing uniforms already quaintly dated. The ground fought over in places like [link=https://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/05/world/asia/05afghan.html]Kamdesh[/link], recounted in that history, is already as unfamiliar to young soldiers as names like [link=https://www.nytimes.com/1916/09/13/archives/french-make-wide-sweep-strong-thrust-on-4mile-front-has-combles.html?searchResultPosition=3]Somme[/link] or [link=https://www.nytimes.com/1968/03/12/archives/airdrops-are-khesanhs-lifeline-airdrops-supply-base-at-khesanh.html?searchResultPosition=1]Khe Sanh[/link].
 

[clickpenguin_460]

Quote from Frumious

2 takeaways from the Iraq/Afghanistan wars, trusting the militarys assessments alone that we are always winning & on the verge of a total win, if only they had a little more time and men is a recipe for total failure.

Further, the lack of a draft & public participation leaves the public largely ignorant & indifferent to the issues concerning wars where the vast majority are isolated from such wars.

[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/22/us/afghanistan-war-us-reaction.html]https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/22/us/afghanistan-war-us-reaction.html[/link]

There will almost certainly be soul searching in military think tanks and war colleges, just as there was after the Vietnam War, said Jason Dempsey, a retired Army lieutenant colonel who deployed twice to Afghanistan, and wrote [link=https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691142258/our-army]a book[/link] about military and civilians relations. But one unintended lasting lesson, he added, may be the military now knows how to conduct a war that can go on indefinitely, what he called the upper limit of how much you can spend on a war indefinitely, both in cash and lives, without people paying too much attention.

One lasting impression the public may take away from Afghanistan, he said, is that the military is not so much a heroic problem solver as a vast federal bureaucracy that doesnt always do well when its generals are allowed to assess their own performance.

For years the military graded its own homework and said it was winning, said Mr. Dempsey And civilians started wondering if we should be in Afghanistan, but did they call their congressmen? Did they protest in the street? No. Because there is no personal sacrifice. [b][i]Its easy to ignore a catastrophe when it isnt yours[/i][/b].

At the Army posts museum, Afghanistan is already [link=https://twitter.com/David_Philipps/status/1428757784997376011]an exhibit[/link], complete with oil paintings of notable battles, showing uniforms already quaintly dated. The ground fought over in places like [link=https://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/05/world/asia/05afghan.html]Kamdesh[/link], recounted in that history, is already as unfamiliar to young soldiers as names like [link=https://www.nytimes.com/1916/09/13/archives/french-make-wide-sweep-strong-thrust-on-4mile-front-has-combles.html?searchResultPosition=3]Somme[/link] or [link=https://www.nytimes.com/1968/03/12/archives/airdrops-are-khesanhs-lifeline-airdrops-supply-base-at-khesanh.html?searchResultPosition=1]Khe Sanh[/link].

 
I agree with you, Frumi.
 
While I am a huge supporter of the military in general and want us to have the best/strongest military – there is a huge amount of waste, poor promotions, and little accountability within our current military.  The lack of resignations/firings currently really shows you how screwed up things are.
 
As one article put it, no one pushed back against Biden at the table…why didn’t they?  Mattis put his stars on the table and quit when Trump wanted to pull out.  Trump made a bunch of bad decisions but at least he had people around him who weren’t afraid to disagree with him.

[btomba_77]

[link=https://www.wsj.com/articles/in-kabul-private-rescue-efforts-grow-desperate-as-time-to-evacuate-afghans-runs-out-11629875097?reflink=share_mobilewebshare]https://www.wsj.com/artic…k=share_mobilewebshare[/link]

Blackwater Founder Erik Prince steps up to help his fellow contractors in need in Afghanistan by providing them seats on charter flights … for only $6500 a head.

[kayla.meyer_144]

What a humanitarian.

[satyanar]

I’m feeling really good because the Taliban promised safe passage through 8/31.
 
 
Is this Biden’s Chamberlain moment?

[kaldridgewv2211]

unfortunately it sounds like an explosion of some sort has killed Americans and Afghanistans at the airport.  Still sounds to early to know what’s up.

[amyelizabethbarrett28_711]

At least 10 members of the US military have been killed in the bombings today.

Biden administrations immediate response? Crickets

JUST IN: US State Dept. says there will be no news briefing today

[clickpenguin_460]

Quote from Frumious

Quote from Cubsfan10

They are shouting death to America but at the same time they seem to be good friendly people!

You left out the rest of the quote.

 
lol wow.

[kaldridgewv2211]

They should probably say something. I do get that its hard to just go shooting off the cuff responses. Who did the bombing? Taliban or ISIS.
 
Supposedly Biden to address later today.  12 service members killed by someone coming to a checkpoint.  Seriously time to consider fudging some people up on the way out.

[satyanar]

Quote from DICOM_Dan

Who did the bombing? Taliban or ISIS.

 
Does it really matter? 

[btomba_77]

I’m sure the statement the White House would like to release is —
 
“Our troops as well as civilians have been getting shot, blown up, maimed, and murdered for 20 years now. This happens every week. We’re getting the f*ck out.”

[btomba_77]

But without snark … yes, when this many service members are killed it should be addressed.  Doesn’t need to be on an emergent basis, but at some point today there should be a presser.

[satyanar]

Quote from dergon

This happens every week.

 
It doesn’t anymore. Well at least not until this poorly managed withdrawal. Get out, fine. Was there really no way to do it safely? 

[Unknown Member]

At least Biden took full responsibility except for the fact that he then blamed Trump for these deaths…..thank God that the USA is safe and stable again. Remember the thousands of US casualties in Afghanistan over the prior administration.

[amyelizabethbarrett28_711]

Stephanopoulos says there’s still a lot of pandemonium at the Kabul airport.

Biden: “But look, no one’s being killed right now,” then *literally knocks on wood!*

[link=https://twitter.com/thejcoop/status/1428350736459603969?s=21]https://twitter.com/thejc…28350736459603969?s=21[/link]

[Unknown Member]

I see a lot of dementia in Bidens eyes…..

[btomba_77]

President Biden [link=https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/26/biden-delivers-remarks-on-deadly-terror-attack-near-kabul-airport.html]will give a national address[/link] about the attack at the Kabul airport in the White House East Room just after 5 p.m. ET.
 
 

[btomba_77]

Josh Hawley calls for Biden to resign over Afghanistan.   ( Recall that Josh Hawley wrote a formal letter to Trump in November of 2020 calling for the prompt withdrawal from Afghanistan)
 
Marsha Blackburn also calling for resignation.
 
Lindsey Graham calling for impeachment.
 
 

[alyaa.rifaie_129]

Interesting – Cognitively impaired Biden is responsible for one of the worst foreign policy debacles in recent times and libs post anything but criticism  of him. We copy paste anything we can find that goes back to Trump (hint he is no longer President), you post how you wish this happened to Trump, and you post about GOP criticism of  Biden but never a post that he now has the blood of 13 military’s personal on his hands and lies/false statements he perpetuates. 
 
If this happened under Trump you guys would have copied pasted anything and everything & the circle jerk members would be posting non stop. 

[Unknown Member]

What would you have done differently

[satyanar]

I find these “what would you have done differently” questions silly. I thought we were supposed to “follow the experts!”
 
I voted for Biden because he was the better alternative to the idiot who was there before. I didn’t expect him to have the answers himself. I hoped Biden would show good judgment and follow advice from a carefully selected group of foreign policy, intelligence and military experts. It’s hard for me to believe a group of these experts could not have come up with a better plan.

[Unknown Member]

Why is it silly?

The vast majority of people in both parties wanted out

Trump instructed Pompeo to get us out

Pompeo signed a peace agreement with the taliban

I do think things could have been done better bi
Biden. But what?

What could have been done without committing more troops and money

I mean seriously we spent 20 years trying to build an Afghan army only to watch them fall apart in
Days

What else would you or anyone else done

Personally If I wasnt going to commit more troops or money I would have tried to get as many Afghans who helped out then blew up the equipment we gave them that we could not get out and just left in the middle of the night

We probably wouldnt have lost 12 brothers

[satyanar]

Quote from Chirorad84

Why is it silly? 
  
 [i]Because you are asking a non expert.[/i]
[i] [/i]
Personally If I wasnt going to commit more troops or money I would have tried to get as many Afghans who helped out then blew up the equipment we gave them that we could not get out and just left in the middle of the night 
  
 [i]Yes, this is a basic plan that I had concocted in a few minutes of thought. Seems silly to think you and I could do a better job than Biden and his consultants.[/i]

 
The other thing that is silly is the fact that the tribalism is so strong that people continue to defend Biden by asking the question. He was supposed to better, not make the same mistakes.
 
Of course it is all sport in here which is fine. There are those that enjoy talking stats and theory and those that are major homers and have nothing to say but “we’re #1!” and “you suck!”

[kaldridgewv2211]

lots of revisionist history going on.  It’s not like the state department didn’t tell people to get out before this week.  Wasn’t it Trump who made it impossible for the Afghans to get Visas?  Trump let the 5000 Taliban go, one of whom is now their leader.  
 
You can fault the Biden admin for not having a better withdraw plan.

[satyanar]

Quote from DICOM_Dan

 
  
“revisionist history”. 

That’s another term used when defending one’s tribe. Nobody said Trump didn’t screw up badly. However, I’m still pretty sure the current administration knew about everything you describe. Are they supposed to formulate a plan that works in the current condition or just come back later and blame it on the past? It’s a pretty sad day when Biden uses the “he started it and he would have continued doing it that way” excuse.
 
 

[satyanar]

Quote from DICOM_Dan

 
  
You can fault the Biden admin for not having a better withdraw plan.

 
That’s all I am trying to do. Nothing revisionist about it.

[btomba_77]

Yep.

I think there is pretty broad agreement from most that we should be out (except for the traditional hawks)

But there is plenty of fair criticism that can be laid on Biden due the mess of the withdrawal

[kayla.meyer_144]

I think it would have been a sh1tshow no matter what Biden tried to do.
 
The primary problem now is the Afghan allies who worked with us, getting them out? Fast tracking the visas would have been good but not exactly have been a non-issue as you can see now with Republicans falling all over themselves objecting to the “terrorists” coming into ‘your community.’ They’re all Muslims! They’re all Ilhan Omars! They’re all non-White! A Berlin airlift but instead of dropping off food and supplies we are flying out thousands of Afghans. I’m sure it would have been with the full cooperation of the Afghan government and all that fleeing would have further stabilized the government even as events proved there was no stable government outside of graft and corruption.
 
As for the Afghans who ran off the field of battle without firing a shot? Leaving all their equipment on the field for the Taliban to collect for free? That debacle was clearly foreseen by all but Biden chose to ignore the Cassandras? I don’t think so. The projections was weeks before Kabul would fall. And if there was agreement that this was the likely scenario, then what? What should we have done?
 
I have not heard an alternative viable plan that also in hindsight would have done better. Yes, things are a sh1tshow now but what “plan” would have prevented any of this from happening? Put back thousands of US soldiers into Afghanistan to do what? Fight the Taliban? While we evacuate the country?
 
The allies were caught off guard, that should not have happened. Other than that, I can’t think of a good plan that would have been seamless. It still would have been a sh1tshow, just a little bit different. 
 
Maybe.
 
 

[satyanar]

Quote from Frumious

I think it would have been a sh1tshow no matter what Biden tried to do.

The primary problem now is the Afghan allies who worked with us, getting them out? Fast tracking the visas would have been good but not exactly have been a non-issue as you can see now with Republicans falling all over themselves objecting to the “terrorists” coming into ‘your community.’ They’re all Muslims! They’re all Ilhan Omars! They’re all non-White! A Berlin airlift but instead of dropping off food and supplies we are flying out thousands of Afghans. 
    
  

 
We would fly out those we made promises to and their families. No need for more. There is no doubt many Republicans would make it difficult. Isn’t that the point of your side winning? To give them a big “FU”?
 
And yes it would have been a “s*** show. However, I find it troubling that both Chiro and I had a basic plan that would have looked better in retrospect than what we got.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Who had a better plan?
 
52 seconds into the video, Former CIA Agent Phil Mudd:  [link]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=df7uruDM1YU[/link]
 
[link=https://transcripts.cnn.com/show/cg/date/2021-08-26/segment/01]https://transcripts.cnn.c…/2021-08-26/segment/01[/link]
 

Lets look at characteristics. The Americans say they are going to get out. Could you have bombed American military posts before you got out to ensure that the Taliban couldnt access weapons a explosives. The Taliban then knows youre leaving. The Taliban going to surge if they see that youre leaving. That happened in this circumstance. The Afghan National Army is going to see youre leaving. They are going to fold. As soon as you start leaving the airport American citizens and people affiliated with the Americans are going to surge the airport because they know their throats are going to get slit by the Taliban. Thats what happening in this circumstance and the biggest question, Jake, you can surge in the American military to get aircraft to take people out and theres a big footprint and you tell me whether you like Obama or Trump or Biden. You give me a better plan, I dont see it, Jake.

[kayla.meyer_144]

The Proud Boys and other extremist, Fascist(?) Right-wingnut groups support and cheer on the Taliban.
 
“They hate us for our freedoms!” might just be directed against the wrong people. It just might be Americans who hold this opinion.
 
[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/27/opinion/alt-right-taliban.html]https://www.nytimes.com/2…alt-right-taliban.html[/link]
 

As the Taliban swept through Afghanistan in August, a Gen Z alt-right group ran a Twitter account devoted to celebrating their progress. Tweets in Pashto juxtaposed two laughing Taliban fighters with pictures meant to represent American effeminacy. 
 
The account, now suspended, was just one example of the open admiration for the Taliban thats developed within parts of the American right. The influential young white supremacist Nick Fuentes  [link=https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/05/us/politics/paul-gosar-republicans-congress-extremism.html]an ally[/link] of the Arizona Republican congressman Paul Gosar and the anti-immigrant pundit [link=https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-trump-retweets-right-wing-activist-associated-with-white-nationalist-group-1.8852355]Michelle Malkin[/link]  [link=https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/live-afghanistan-taliban-news/card/hv1U2m0zceuobgYAiwiR]wrote[/link] on the encrypted app Telegram: The Taliban is a conservative, religious force, the U.S. is godless and liberal. The defeat of the U.S. government in Afghanistan is unequivocally a positive development. An account linked to the Proud Boys [link=https://www.vice.com/en/article/qj8apw/the-far-right-is-celebrating-the-taliban-takeover-of-afghanistan]expressed respect[/link] for the way the Taliban took back their national religion as law, and executed dissenters.
 
On Twitter earlier this month, Gaetz [link=https://twitter.com/RepMattGaetz/status/1428056066269581313?s=20]described[/link] the Taliban, like Trump, as more legitimate than the last government in Afghanistan or the current government here.
 
Foxs Tucker Carlson, the most important nationalist voice in America, seemed to sympathize with the gender politics of Taliban-supporting Afghans. They dont hate their own masculinity, [link=https://theweek.com/fox-news/1003818/fox-news-tucker-carlson-blames-taliban-gains-on-grotesque-gender-studies]he said[/link] shortly after the fall of Kabul. They dont think its toxic. They like the patriarchy. Some of their women like it too. So now theyre getting it all back. So maybe its possible that we failed in Afghanistan because the entire neoliberal program is grotesque. 
 
One neo-Nazi website, which I wont link to, has a tract hailing the Taliban victory in part for showing that a small band of armed fundamentalists can defeat the American empire.

 
 
 

Taliban and Trump should both be on Twitter.

More legitimate than the last government in Afghanistan or the current government here. https://t.co/VN7oxtCHk8

— Former Congressman Matt Gaetz (@FmrRepMattGaetz) August 18, 2021

[kayla.meyer_144]

What’s going to happen with Afghanistan when this is all over & the last US plane leaves with its human cargo? It reminds me of all the people running for their lives when the Soviets erected their wall in Europe, very embarrassing that so many people wanted to leave their Communist paradise. Now people want to leave the Islamic fundamentalist paradise on Earth.
 
All that US equipment left behind. Who among the Taliban has the knowledge to maintain the equipment? Not to mention running a country. Will Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, China or Russia be able to plug the holes and exploit Afghanistan under the Taliban for an exchange of their money and knowledge?

[btomba_77]

[link=https://www.ktsm.com/news/sen-ted-cruz-has-security-concerns-about-afghan-refugees-at-fort-bliss-after-visit/?utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_source=t.co]https://www.ktsm.com/news…ow&utm_source=t.co[/link]
 
Ted Cruz doesn’t want Afghan refugees at Ft. Bliss.
 
 
Republican anti-immigrant sentiment quickly bubbling up over Afghan immigration –
 
[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/25/us/politics/republicans-afghan-refugees.html]https://www.nytimes.com/2…s-afghan-refugees.html[/link]
 
[b]GOP schism on AFghan immigrants [/b]
 
[b]______[/b]
 
[link=https://lacrossetribune.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_4706ceca-133e-5e91-a9b8-5e4745561b71.html]State Rep. Loren Oldenburg, R-Viroqua, said school-aged refugees wont be attending local public schools.[/link]
 
____________
 
Kevin McCarthy warned on Fox that there are 5,000 prisoners who just left Afghanistan and are hoping to cross US borders.  (lie)
 
__________
 
(notable exceptions to the FL Republicans … much more welcoming )

[kayla.meyer_144]

Any moment now, NuttyBudda (ADHD) will interject how you are being tribal by pointing out Republican animus to immigrants and refugees. 
 
Shame for pointing that out.

[satyanar]

Not a shame. Its exactly what I said you should do. Acknowledge the hypocrisy that exists in that part of the right. KM is an ***hole. Alt right terrorists groups are a bigger threat to the US than the Taliban at the moment. 
 
My point to you was take it head on as someone whos tribe won the last battle. That is honorable. Unfortunately, your method is try to lump everyone in a tribe with the most extreme of their members. It only causes more polarization. 
 
If polarization is what you want then you are winning.  

[satyanar]

I used to avoid the politics board because I do not like the tribalism. I once described myself as “right leaning”, but now realize it is not accurate. I quit the Republican party when DJT won and have become more and more disappointed with certain factions. I find it best to evaluate each situation on it’s own and decide what to do after becoming educated. I am always happy to be challenged on the merits of my analysis. I do not find it helpful to be criticized based an an assumed tribal affiliation. Following a tribe is not very productive. I think we would all be better off if there were more people with my approach. 

[btomba_77]

Its over.

the withdrawal from Afghanistan has completed at 3:29pm ET

[satyanar]

 
 
Yep, it’s over.
 
“The veterans and groups who couldnt get their Afghan partners out are now coaching them on how to stay alive.  
 
Don’t dress like westerners but instead, look like the Taliban and blend in, one rescue group advised in an alert it sent out to multiple networks Saturday. 
 
You need to hide in plain sight to survive, the group advised. There is talk about an Afghan Resistance as well as getting people out across the border.  That will take shape over the next few months.  As much as we hope for this, you need to think about surviving with the Taliban starting THIS WEEKEND. 
 
Right now, do not count on Americans to save you.””
 

[satyanar]

I’m sorry for the sarcasm. It just seems hollow to say it’s over.
I will say that in reading the article I quoted from I was pleased to see how many were evacuated in a short time. 122,300. That includes U.S. citizens and Afghans who helped us and them. I am thankful for everyone.

[ruszja]

If you are the last one out,
turn off the lights
 
[attachment=0]

[btomba_77]

The Afghanistan War In One Sentence[/h1]  
 
 
[link=https://apnews.com/article/afghanistan-islamic-state-group-e10e038baea732dae879c11234507f81]Associated Press[/link]: The United States completed its withdrawal from Afghanistan late Monday, ending Americas longest war and closing a chapter in military history likely to be remembered for colossal failures, unfulfilled promises and a frantic final exit that cost the lives of more than 180 Afghans and 13 U.S. service members, some barely older than the war.