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There’s no way around it, it was a repudiation of Obama
From the time that he took office, to the time he will have left, Obama left the Democratic Party in an exceedingly weakened state — and by any measure, which is the point. From an economy that works only for the elite, to the increasing national debt, to the social and cultural chaos, to border issues and national security (terror attacks only occurred on his watch), I don’t see how you can make an argument against the obvious. Even if you are a Democrat supporter, you have to admit that this leadership has rendered a dramatic weakening.
They gave him 8 years too. With pushover “Republicans”.
I don’t see how you can look at this in terms of a positive legacy, on the merits. That someone wants to use vague or subjective words of emotion, I can’t argue. But results and outcomes are all that matter.
You ask why Trump? All you really need to do is look at yourself in the mirror. It’s really that simple. Real growth and maturity comes from trying to analyze what the problems are. Not denying reality and blaming others ad infinitum. -
51 Replies
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Saying terror attacks only occurred under Obama is false. See 9/11.
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It was a repudiation.
*candidate gets less votes than the craptastic democrat*
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The Obamacare experiment is very expensive for this country.
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It will be more expensive when repealed.
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Good rittance to Obamacare – there are much less complex ways to cover the uninsured
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*riddance
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Expensive to whom? If you are poor enough to have qualified for the Medicaid expansion, repealing the ACA will be more expensive to you. If you are lower middle class and above the threshold to qualify for ACA subsidy, repeal will be less expensive. If you are upper middle class or wealthy, like us, it’s mostly irrelevant.
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More uninsured means higher insurance costs…like it or not the insurance costs under PPACA are lower than what would have occurred without it. I realize most on the right are more interested in staccato talking points rather than thinking…but if they repeal it, they own the consequences
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My cousin posted this today; this is the very definition of repudiation:
Since ACA passage, Democrats have lost net:
12 Senators
65 House
11 Govs
900+ state legislators
12 states to 1 party control
&
Presidency -
Obama was an expensive social experiment. Obamacare cost $$billions and added new taxes. Illegal immigration is sucking the life out of cities. Dodd-Franks has cost the financial sector and the country in general $billions. Stagnant economy has cost $$ trillions. Obama’s effective repeal of welfare reform, swelling of the number of people on the dole, underemployment for 8 years, plummeting labor force participation from 66% to 62%., corporate expatriation costing the country $$billion in lost tax revenues and outsourcing of innovative brainpower. Median household income is down 2.3%. GDP growth well below 2%. National debt doubled from $10 trillion to $20 trillion.
No wonder Bill Clinton referred to it as “The awful legacy of the last eight years”
Enjoy your retirement Mr Obama. I’m sure you will make millions lecturing. Time to move over and unshackle the American engine from the yoke of over-regulation and progressive suffocation.
If the GOP effectively rolls back Obamacare, cancels Obama’s executive orders and creates some type of corporate tax reform/incentives, I would not be surprised to see the economy grow at 4% by year 2 of the Trump administration.-
In terms of regulation what specific regulation is holding back that engine Alda? I’ve never understood the Regulation is stopping small business argument. What regulations are those exactly?
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Are you kidding me? The estimate is that under Obamacare we got a major regulation with an impact of > $100 million every 4 days.
Dodd ranks is a regulatory nightmare. The EPA has virtually regulated the coal industry out of existence through the Clean Power Plan. Obamacare alone has 20,000 pages of regulation and established 159 agencies to implement it. . Net neutrality is full of regulations. The Federal Policy for the Protection of Human Subjects … to name just a few.
[link=http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2016/05/red-tape-rising-2016-obama-regs-top-100-billion-annually]http://www.heritage.org/r…p-100-billion-annually[/link]
[link=http://thehill.com/regulation/290744-study-obama-issued-743b-in-regs]http://thehill.com/regula…ma-issued-743b-in-regs[/link]
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Only looking at one side of any equation will always show the results you want. The question is what was happening in health care costs and coverage before the ACA? What happened with the Banks before Dodd? What happened to consumers getting ripped off ala Wells Fargo? Since when does the Free Market guarantee better results? Than what exactly?
There’s going to be a lot of disappointment when Paradise doesn’t appear & all the Republican voters get is a box of raisins and the bill. Except for the affluent, who will make out very nicely.
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To F ager & Mistrad, et al,
No, this was not a repudiation of Obama as much as the Democratic voters, minorities & women stay home & take things for granted. The Republican votes have been roughly the same for the past couple of Presidential elections, 60 million. It is the Democratic votes that have declined for Hillary. Whether her fault or Democrats staying home due to dissatisfaction or laziness or assuming Clinton was a shoo-in due to polling. So all of this talk about how Obama’s ACA has cost Democrats is about Democrats taking things for granted & staying home, the votes from the Right have been consistent even to the point of Hillary actually winning on number of votes just like Gore. The College is the technical factors of the win but it does not show a repudiation of Obama.
2000 Gore: 50,996,582 Bush:50,456,082
2004 Kerry:57,355,978 Bush:60,693,281
2008 Obama: 69,297,997 McCain: 59,957,520
2012 Obama: 65,444,241 Romney: 60,587,978
2016 Clinton: 60,467,245 Trump: 60,071,650
So since 2004 Republican votes have been consistently the same while Democratic voting has varied from 57 million to 69 million thus determining the results. So don’t credit the Republicans so much as debiting the Democratic voters for their own losses.-
Not really Sure I agree that this is a repudiation of Obama since his popularity is at an all time high.
Although one has to admit the democrats have some soul searching and some major issues you also need to take in account that it is so much easier to criticize policy than it is to make it and enact it
The republicans have all 3 branches now so they will be able to pass legislation.
That leaves open for criticism…………. Which is very easy to do
We shall see how long this lasts-
The Republicans must be given credit for their political maneuvering — they blocked basically everything that Obama wanted to do after the ACA, which made him use executive orders to get stuff done. EO are weak and can be reversed on day 1 by Trump, effectively erasing Obama legacy from the books.
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Their real trick was taking state houses and aggressive gerrymandering. Hence having a 40 seat House advantage while losing the presidential popular vote.
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Quote from kpack123
Not really Sure I agree that this is a repudiation of Obama since his popularity is at an all time high.
Although one has to admit the democrats have some soul searching and some major issues you also need to take in account that it is so much easier to criticize policy than it is to make it and enact it
The republicans have all 3 branches now so they will be able to pass legislation.
That leaves open for criticism…………. Which is very easy to do
We shall see how long this lasts
The popularity is one thing..but not the whole picture.See polling on specific policies. Like ACA…where it is underwater by 20 points.
People like Obama personally…but don’t like his policies.
Again, Obama leaves the Democrats is a dustbin. They are dead on the federal level. They are dead on the state and local level. They are likely to be in bad shape in the courts. He leaves them in arguably as bad position as Bush did in 2008…that is bad.
But here is the key point: is there a single Obama policy change from Bush that survives? Obamacare will at the very least be reformed. The executive orders will be wiped away. Bush’s biggest policy, the war on terror, continued through Obama’s regime and will continue through Trump’s. The Obama Supreme Court is a thing of the past.What legacy will remain of Obama’s will remain in four years? Unlikely to be much left.
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again she won the popular vote
legacy is also determined by how the next President does
so far Trump has a cloud of a Comey President sorta like Bush with Supreme Court
external events will happen–u seem to be assuming that this world will be stagnant for the next 4 years( ain’t going to happen)
when 9/11 happened -it was like the god of luck shined on Bush for a unifying event where he could shake of the shade of how he got elected -, unify the country and look Presidential–a short fix but unfortunately the Iraq war happened/katrina etc
so even with a possible mini 9/11 I am not certain of unity and think here we go again moment will be in the minds of the masses–hope I am wrong but–again this is not a stagnant world( catastrophes, terrorist acts will occur)Quote from MISTRAD
Quote from kpack123
Not really Sure I agree that this is a repudiation of Obama since his popularity is at an all time high.
Although one has to admit the democrats have some soul searching and some major issues you also need to take in account that it is so much easier to criticize policy than it is to make it and enact it
The republicans have all 3 branches now so they will be able to pass legislation.
That leaves open for criticism…………. Which is very easy to do
We shall see how long this lasts
The popularity is one thing..but not the whole picture.
See polling on specific policies. Like ACA…where it is underwater by 20 points.
People like Obama personally…but don’t like his policies.
Again, Obama leaves the Democrats is a dustbin. They are dead on the federal level. They are dead on the state and local level. They are likely to be in bad shape in the courts. He leaves them in arguably as bad position as Bush did in 2008…that is bad.
But here is the key point: is there a single Obama policy change from Bush that survives? Obamacare will at the very least be reformed. The executive orders will be wiped away. Bush’s biggest policy, the war on terror, continued through Obama’s regime and will continue through Trump’s. The Obama Supreme Court is a thing of the past.
What legacy will remain of Obama’s will remain in four years? Unlikely to be much left.
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You guys are making sweeping statements about public sentiment when the country is very divided and a regressive mechanism known as the electoral college is preventing the winner of the most votes from taking office. The reality is much messier.
One thing is clear: democrats are screwed until at least the next census when it comes to state houses and the House of Reps. GOP outflanked them [i]badly[/i] when it comes to gerrymandering. It’s almost comical.-
Couple of my friends are working as locums and independent contractors without health ins from the company. They said Obamacare silver plan (??) for the whole family is more than $14k per year?? They are reasonably healthy and careful people.
Sounds atrocious.-
As for the popular vote…that really is the most meaningless barometer.
Take California. GOP voting there plummeted. Why? Well, first Trump spent no time there. But second, because the runoff system. You had two Democrats running for Senate…no GOP on the ballot.
That probably drove down GOP vote in California alone by 1 million votes.
So, basically, $1 and winning the popular vote gets you a cup of coffee. Congrats.-
no but Messiah Trump said he would win NY and CA which are the most diverse states–and he did not
it is not meaningless when you are carrying red sates
all other countries go by popular voteQuote from MISTRAD
As for the popular vote…that really is the most meaningless barometer.
Take California. GOP voting there plummeted. Why? Well, first Trump spent no time there. But second, because the runoff system. You had two Democrats running for Senate…no GOP on the ballot.
That probably drove down GOP vote in California alone by 1 million votes.
So, basically, $1 and winning the popular vote gets you a cup of coffee. Congrats.
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Quote from Voxel77
Couple of my friends are working as locums and independent contractors without health ins from the company. They said Obamacare silver plan (??) for the whole family is more than $14k per year?? They are reasonably healthy and careful people.
Sounds atrocious.
Exactly how much or cheap do you think health care costs? And again, it depends on which market one is in. The same simple procedure can cost thousands, even tens of thousands different in 2 different hospitals serving the same patient population in the same market. The ACA did not directly address that but it was beginning. But nothing ever proposed by Republicans addressed that, in fact the idea of even thinking about government involvement into the “free market” of charge-what-you-want is anathema. You think Epipen price is a concern to the GOP?
As you might have noted with some poms-poms being brought out even here on AM, the reality is that the costs of health care will increase due to repeal of the ACA. It was increasing much faster before the ACA and the repeal will accelerate the costs again, the ACA was a lull in costs. The way the GOP will address costs if they do will just be to further cut the rolls and reimbursements. ERISA will be the national cure for those who are not covered, as it once was the only solution. So those who supported the GOP will see their support erode even further. They are helping their own destruction as they have since Reagan. The GOP will neither assist with monetary assistance or with jobs for these people because even the GOP believes their poverty is all self-inflicted and therefore a measure of justice. They are not their brothers’ keeper. The GOP solution is to shame the poor out of their poverty. It has worked so well in the Red States, no?
And the reality is that health care is only the start. They are antithetical to science in general and specifically to climate change as a result of burning fossil fuels. And public education is also on the hit list.
It’s a lot more than the ACA. The rubes have no idea.
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Quote from Voxel77
Couple of my friends are working as locums and independent contractors without health ins from the company. They said Obamacare silver plan (??) for the whole family is more than $14k per year?? They are reasonably healthy and careful people.
Sounds atrocious.
Voxel
Do some investigation of present costs & what costs were before in the Paradise time before the ACA. It is Open Enrollment time now & I am reviewing the costs of coverage for my wife and myself & my adult children. My wife works for a very large inter-state hospital system so the costs would be quite low, yes? Well, her out of pocket costs for herself are in line with what mine are with a different employer. But I know the employer subsidizes my insurance to a great degree & the employer is in turn subsidized by the government in tax credits. That said, I am reviewing the costs for a part-timer for family coverage at my wife’s employer. Comes to about about $15,000 per year for family. That is using the corporation’s ability to purchase cheaper insurance but likely the corporation provides only a small subsidy for that coverage. None of this goes into any detail of real coverage & co-pays, etc.
Again, what did you think the cost of health care was? What do you think it was in 2008 & before? What do you think the trend was in costs & coverage before 2008? Analyze it & prepare to be surprised that the ACA didn’t destroy anything for anyone. And that includes reimbursement.
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All of this is fine and dandy but it doesn’t matter a damn .
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well, is the ACA going to be repealed completely? Then 11 mil people are dumped & the market is pre-ACA; they are not dumped but no requirement to purchase insurance, prices will certainly increase & not by a little. What’s “replacement” mean? Privatize Medicare? Wow! Talk about increasing costs!
Yes , it most certainly matters.
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It’s also important whether one wants to believe false information or real information about health care costs. Was the world really a better place for everyone pre-ACA?
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Quote from Frumious
well, is the ACA going to be repealed completely? Then 11 mil people are dumped & the market is pre-ACA; they are not dumped but no requirement to purchase insurance, prices will certainly increase & not by a little. What’s “replacement” mean? Privatize Medicare? Wow! Talk about increasing costs!
Yes , it most certainly matters.
Trump has many times said he agrees with major portions of the ACA.
He said so on 60 minutes last Sept, again last night.
ACA is going to change dramatically, but large portions of it may remain (say, Medicaid expansion).Trump is not as right wing on this than people make him out to be.
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Change? Isn’t that all that Democrats & Obama wanted? But the GOP platform, including Trump’s was “repeal” and only repeal with some vague unexplained outside of a single word, “replace.” Now we have fudging.
Shades of Ronnie! “What the President-elect really meant to say, in spite of what he actually said as shown in recordings is…”
So other than the mandate, what else will be gone? On-line insurance shopping? Hardly a major repeal. Removing the mandate is a guaranteed formula for making insurance even more expensive unless a lot of people are dropped from the rolls. -
It doesn’t matter what he does now. Most politics is tribal and he won, his supporters are going to be doing victory laps for years.
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Quote from Frumious
Change? Isn’t that all that Democrats & Obama wanted? But the GOP platform, including Trump’s was “repeal” and only repeal with some vague unexplained outside of a single word, “replace.” Now we have fudging.
Shades of Ronnie! “What the President-elect really meant to say, in spite of what he actually said as shown in recordings is…”
So other than the mandate, what else will be gone? On-line insurance shopping? Hardly a major repeal. Removing the mandate is a guaranteed formula for making insurance even more expensive unless a lot of people are dropped from the rolls.
Not really true.
I think Trump has been all over the place, but on several occasions he said in the last year that he wanted to keep the age 26 rule, and protect people with pre-existing conditions, among other things.
I think the problem obviously is you have no idea if Trump actually understands the repercussions of his own positions. -
As for his followers…I bet many will ultimately be angry when Trump retains large portions of the ACA.
Just watch. -
If history serves, I think Trump’s MO is going to be to change Obamacare at the margins and change the name to Trumpcare.
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Some of the good things in the ACA can be put on a one page bill and passed.
I’d rather see him build a new school, interstate, bridge, dam, airport, than build a wall to Mexico.
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
Some of the good things in the ACA can be put on a one page bill and passed.
I’d rather see him build a new school, interstate, bridge, dam, airport, than build a wall to Mexico.
Stop drinking the Kool-aid, Dan. There is no such thing as an ACA on a single page. Read Romneycare. Even Heritage’s original plan is more than a single page.
As for infrastructure, pay up with what exactly with stated plans for deep income tax cuts? How does that math work? Reagan tried & started the trend of increasing deficits that only Clinton reversed. -
GOP is fine using the national credit card when they’re in power, don’t worry about that.
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I’m very sure of that. But the Republicans have not believed it is the government’s job to pay for infrastructure, at least they have been opposed to repairing infrastructure since at the very least, Bush.
The other thing we can be sure of is that government will grow under Republicans and for all the talk about the Executive being too powerful over Congress, watch nothing substantial change except the Executive get more powerful with Congress’s full participation. The caveat being unless Trump begins doing things like cooperating with Democrats or other decisions Congress can’t explain away with other sleight-of-hand distractions. -
Naw, no racism here.Just a misunderstanding.
These people think it’s OK to make hate statements in public? On social media? And complaining about the statement is a hate crime in itself. Poor dears.
A nonprofit groups director and a mayor in a small town in West Virginia have been swept up in a firestorm surrounding comments about Michelle Obama that have been perceived as blatantly racist.
After Donald Trumps election as president, Pamela Ramsey Taylor, who was director of Clay County Development Corp. in Clay, a tiny town outside Charleston, reportedly posted about the move from Michelle Obama to Melania Trump on Facebook, saying: It will be so refreshing to have a classy, beautiful, dignified First Lady back in the White House. Im tired of seeing a Ape in heels, according to NBC affiliate WSAZ.
The news station reported that the towns mayor, Beverly Whaling, then replied, Just made my day Pam.
The comments were later deleted, but images of the post have been shared widely on social media. As of Monday afternoon, an online petition calling for the womens terminations had garnered more than 14,000 signatures.
The two women have apologized for their remarks.[b]My comment was not intended to be racist at all, Whaling said in a statement to The Washington Post.[/b]
Taylor could not be reached for comment, but WSAZ reported that she had issued an apology on Facebook.[b]However, Taylor told the news station that the public response had become a hate crime against me.[/b]
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Quote from Frumious
Naw, no racism here.Just a misunderstanding.
These people think it’s OK to make hate statements in public? On social media? And complaining about the statement is a hate crime in itself. Poor dears.
A nonprofit groups director and a mayor in a small town in West Virginia have been swept up in a firestorm surrounding comments about Michelle Obama that have been perceived as blatantly racist.
After Donald Trumps election as president, Pamela Ramsey Taylor, who was director of Clay County Development Corp. in Clay, a tiny town outside Charleston, reportedly posted about the move from Michelle Obama to Melania Trump on Facebook, saying: It will be so refreshing to have a classy, beautiful, dignified First Lady back in the White House. Im tired of seeing a Ape in heels, according to NBC affiliate WSAZ.
The news station reported that the towns mayor, Beverly Whaling, then replied, Just made my day Pam.
The comments were later deleted, but images of the post have been shared widely on social media. As of Monday afternoon, an online petition calling for the womens terminations had garnered more than 14,000 signatures.
The two women have apologized for their remarks.
[b]My comment was not intended to be racist at all, Whaling said in a statement to The Washington Post.[/b]
Taylor could not be reached for comment, but WSAZ reported that she had issued an apology on Facebook.
[b]However, Taylor told the news station that the public response had become a hate crime against me.[/b]
Karma …
Pamela Taylor, racist Republican infamous for calling First Lady Michelle Obama “an ape in heels” …
She just pleaded guilty for defrauding FEMA and is facing up to 30 years in prison.
[link=https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/redirect-to/?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FTomthunkitsMind%2Fstatus%2F1652263284559736835%3Fs%3D20]https://twitter.com/TomthunkitsMind/…559736835?s=20[/link]
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Interesting reading the beginning of this thread that argues Trumps win (with less votes than that craptastic Democrat, Hillary) was a repudiation of Obama & that craptastic legislation failure, the Affordable Care Act, AKA Obamacare.
We are still picking up the pieces.
Conservatives still showing a strong belief in crazy. Where does one even start -
Quote from Frumious
Quote from DICOM_Dan
Some of the good things in the ACA can be put on a one page bill and passed.
I’d rather see him build a new school, interstate, bridge, dam, airport, than build a wall to Mexico.
Stop drinking the Kool-aid, Dan. There is no such thing as an ACA on a single page. Read Romneycare. Even Heritage’s original plan is more than a single page.
As for infrastructure, pay up with what exactly with stated plans for deep income tax cuts? How does that math work? Reagan tried & started the trend of increasing deficits that only Clinton reversed.
So you can’t have a one page bill that says children an stay on parents healthcare until they’re 26. Or abolishing pre-existing conditions. That fits on a post it note. But by the time our wonderful government gets done it’s 2000 pages.
I think there’s difficult choices on how to spend. Like Trump wanted to upgrade the nucs right. Do you put a bunch of money there, or do you build infrastructure? I do think the way we tax and spend needs a major overhaul. -
It fits on a post-it note until you ask an attorney about it.
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It’s absurd that people on the left actually count the votes of illegals and recent immigrants as somehow forming the basis of an argument against the Electoral College.
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What are you mumbling about?
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Quote from MISTRAD
As for his followers…I bet many will ultimately be angry when Trump retains large portions of the ACA.
Just watch.
I agree, a bind. If he repeals the Trump voters will be thrown under the bus for health care, if he makes minor changes, the more partisan will become angry. The regular voters will not really understand & the new coat of paint will suffice. However I think McConnell will back up minor changes in the rearranging of the chairs as somehow life-changing. They have no replace or anything else and artifice works very well for most people. And the issues of increasing health care costs will be swept under the rug. The media will limply go along as usual. Fact-checkers might point out the discrepancy but who cares? Who listens to facts nowadays, reality is such a bummer.
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Quote from Voxel77
Couple of my friends are working as locums and independent contractors without health ins from the company. They said Obamacare silver plan (??) for the whole family is more than $14k per year?? They are reasonably healthy and careful people.
Sounds atrocious.
It is. And remember, the ‘silver’ plan is internally subsidized by the carrier as it is the one being used by the government to publish state by state prices.
I used to buy 80/20 coverage with a $500 deductible for around 10k. Now I can’t even get that coverage for any amount of money.
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Quote from deadwing
You guys are making sweeping statements about public sentiment when the country is very divided and a regressive mechanism known as the electoral college is preventing the winner of the most votes from taking office. The reality is much messier.
One thing is clear: democrats are screwed until at least the next census when it comes to state houses and the House of Reps. GOP outflanked them [i]badly[/i] when it comes to gerrymandering. It’s almost comical.
This is true, but…even if you used the Congressional districts before the last census, the GOP would have a 40 seat advantage.
This is more than gerrymandering…Democrats have serious problems in the fly over states.
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Quote from Frumious
To F ager & Mistrad, et al,
No, this was not a repudiation of Obama as much as the Democratic voters, minorities & women stay home & take things for granted. The Republican votes have been roughly the same for the past couple of Presidential elections, 60 million. It is the Democratic votes that have declined for Hillary. Whether her fault or Democrats staying home due to dissatisfaction or laziness or assuming Clinton was a shoo-in due to polling. So all of this talk about how Obama’s ACA has cost Democrats is about Democrats taking things for granted & staying home, the votes from the Right have been consistent even to the point of Hillary actually winning on number of votes just like Gore. The College is the technical factors of the win but it does not show a repudiation of Obama.
2000 Gore: 50,996,582 Bush:50,456,082
2004 Kerry:57,355,978 Bush:60,693,281
2008 Obama: 69,297,997 McCain: 59,957,520
2012 Obama: 65,444,241 Romney: 60,587,978
2016 Clinton: 60,467,245 Trump: 60,071,650So since 2004 Republican votes have been consistently the same while Democratic voting has varied from 57 million to 69 million thus determining the results. So don’t credit the Republicans so much as debiting the Democratic voters for their own losses.
By that argument, because GOP voters didn’t show up for Romney, Romney was not repudiated.
I don’t buy that.
From 2008, NINE MILLION voters decided that Democrats had not earned their vote, and defected. NINE MILLION.You don’t get a clearer repudiation than that.
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Quote from Dr. ****er
From the time that he took office, to the time he will have left, Obama left the Democratic Party in an exceedingly weakened state — and by any measure, which is the point. From an economy that works only for the elite, to the increasing national debt, to the social and cultural chaos, to border issues and national security (terror attacks only occurred on his watch), I don’t see how you can make an argument against the obvious. Even if you are a Democrat supporter, you have to admit that this leadership has rendered a dramatic weakening.
They gave him 8 years too. With pushover “Republicans”.
I don’t see how you can look at this in terms of a positive legacy, on the merits. That someone wants to use vague or subjective words of emotion, I can’t argue. But results and outcomes are all that matter.
You ask why Trump? All you really need to do is look at yourself in the mirror. It’s really that simple. Real growth and maturity comes from trying to analyze what the problems are. Not denying reality and blaming others ad infinitum.
Obama’s entire legacy will be undone by Trump within months–some by the stroke of the pen and some by Congress. His legacy was “on the ballot” and was blown to smithereens.
