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Report: Global Democracy Under Threat, US Democracy in “accelerating decline”
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Andrew Weissmann, the lead prosecutor on Special Counsel Robert Muellers investigation of Russia interference in the 2016 election, was interviewed by Charlie Sykes on the [link=https://www.thebulwark.com/podcast-episode/andrew-weissmann-trump-acted-with-premeditation-2/]Bulwark Podcast[/link]:
SYKES: If they dont go forward with charges, if they decide that its just too heavy a lift, and Trump is returned to the presidency, what would Trump 2.0 look like, do you think?
WEISSMANN: I dont know that I have enough alcohol at home to even fathom that.
The abuse of the pardon power, I think would, which we already saw, I think would create a completely lawless society. He could essentially engage in crime and have other people engage in crime, and then pardon them.
I think he has learned to make sure hes surrounded by lackeys. The article recently in Axios about essentially getting rid of civil service, which is to put in only political appointees, and various agencies, I think would be incredibly harmful, so that you dont have a sense of people being loyal to the law and the Constitution as opposed to a person. It would be truly frightening.
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[h1][b]There’s a Storm Coming[/b][/h1] [h3]Enforcing the rule of law might be the best option. But it, too, carries risks.[/h3] [link=https://thetriad.thebulwark.com/p/theres-a-storm-coming?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email]Jonathan Last[/link]:
[b](1) No one is asking if [/b][i][b]this[/b][/i][b] will be the thing that finally pries Republicans away from Trump.[/b] For seven years we had a series of episodesmocking John McCain, grab em by the p*ssy, Charlottesville, the Ukraine blackmail, January 6at which point non-believers honestly thought that the latest outrage would be a bridge too far and that some Trump supporters would turn on him.
Well, we seem to have finally touched bottom on reality. No one anywhere in America believes that the potential criminal prosecution of Donald Trump could move a single one of his followers, either at the popular or elite levels.
Thats progress, of a sort. It means that supporters of democracy finally understand the realities of what they are facing.
[hr] [b](2) The potential for more political violence is real.[/b][/QUOTE]
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I would not be surprised at all of the same types who led the January 6th attempted coo tried something else
These are mainly disgruntled middle men who want play army during the day and go have a few beers at Applebees before it closes
In short they can start a fight again
But they cant finish it
Problem is they arent thinking about finishing it
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Quote from dergon
[h1][b]There’s a Storm Coming[/b][/h1] [h3]Enforcing the rule of law might be the best option. But it, too, carries risks.[/h3] [link=https://thetriad.thebulwark.com/p/theres-a-storm-coming?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email]Jonathan Last[/link]:
[b](1) No one is asking if [/b][i][b]this[/b][/i][b] will be the thing that finally pries Republicans away from Trump.[/b] For seven years we had a series of episodesmocking John McCain, grab em by the p*ssy, Charlottesville, the Ukraine blackmail, January 6at which point non-believers honestly thought that the latest outrage would be a bridge too far and that some Trump supporters would turn on him.
Well, we seem to have finally touched bottom on reality. No one anywhere in America believes that the potential criminal prosecution of Donald Trump could move a single one of his followers, either at the popular or elite levels.
Thats progress, of a sort. It means that supporters of democracy finally understand the realities of what they are facing.
[hr] [b](2) The potential for more political violence is real.[/b]
[/QUOTE]
The left has no idea how to deal with a bully? Enforce the rule of law. It’s the right thing to do.
Are people cowering in front of Putin and Xi? I sure hope not. Why would they do that with Trump? Afraid of political violence as a result? Step up and confront the man. He will go cowering into a corner as soon as it happens.-
I agree
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Step up and confront the man. He will go cowering into a corner as soon as it happens.
Concerning Trump, I think that is wishful thinking.
I think it is more likely that he would go down swinging to the very end, playing the victim, and marshaling every lever of power available to him, including mob violence (if out of power) and military violence via agents of the State (if in power)
I think that charging Trump criminally is the right decision if there is appropriate evidence of felonies, but lets not delude ourselves into thinking that will go smoothly.
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Also, even if Trump is prosecuted dotting every I and crossing every T with the DOJ playing by the book and right down the middle, there is a very real possibility that if the next Republican is in the autocratic mold of Trump, they use the Trump prosecution as a justification for unwarranted political persecution of their enemies-
I never said it would go smoothly
What Im
Saying is a mob of 40 to 50 yr old out of shape men playing army is absolutely no match for a trained national Guard or any branch of our militaryIf they think they are going to take things over they are delusional
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Im not just talking about criminal prosecution. Im talking about all of the people opposed to Trump, people like his own generals when he was still President. Stop with this oh no, he might do something bad again if we upset him too much.
Chiro is right. The power of Trump right now is controlled by a bunch of stupid white rednecks. That is a political weapon but has no chance of succeeding in an open confrontation based on the rule of law. Stop being afraid and do the right thing. Its no different with Putin and Xi. Whats happened to the threats of escalation with more military support for Ukraine and Pelosi going to Taiwan?
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[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/08/10/biden-us-historians-democracy-threat/]Historians warn Biden: Americas democracy is on the brink
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[h2]When Biden met with historians last week at the White House, they compared the threat facing America to the pre-Civil War era and to pro-fascist movements before World War II[/h2]Comparisons were made to the years before the 1860 election when Abraham Lincoln warned that a house divided against itself cannot stand and the lead-up to the 1940 election, when President Franklin D. Roosevelt battled rising domestic sympathy for European fascism and resistance to the United States joining World War II.
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Most of the experts in attendance have been outspoken in recent months about the threat they see to the American democratic project, after the attack on the Capitol on Jan. 6, the continued denial by some Republicans of the 2020 election results and the efforts of election deniers to seek state office.
I think he has got to talk tonight about the fact that we are all in existential danger of having our democracy and democracies around the world destroyed, Beschloss [link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mWDYrSatLA]said in March[/link] on MSNBC, before Biden delivered the State of the Union address.
Wilentz, prizewinning author of The Rise of American Democracy: Jefferson to Lincoln, has also voiced alarm in recent months about the state of the country. Were on the verge of what Hamilton in The Federalist called government by brute force, Wilentz told [link=https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/3571998-trumps-enablers-should-not-get-a-pass/]the Hill[/link] last month.
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You cant be pro-insurrection and pro-democracy, Biden told the National Organization of Black Law Enforcement Executives. You cant be pro-insurrection and pro-American.
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[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/11/opinion/fbi-trump-mar-a-lago-raid.html]David Brooks[/link]:[b]Did the F.B.I. Just Re-Elect Donald Trump?[/b]
[b] [/b]America absolutely needs to punish those who commit crimes. On the other hand, America absolutely needs to make sure that Trump does not get another term as president. What do we do if the former makes the latter more likely? I have no clue how to get out of this potential conflict between our legal and political realities.
Were living in a crisis of legitimacy, during which distrust of established power is so virulent that actions by elite actors tend to backfire, no matter how well founded they are.
My impression is that the F.B.I. had legitimate reasons to do what it did. My guess is it will find some damning documents that will do nothing to weaken Trumps support. Im also convinced that, at least for now, it has unintentionally improved Trumps re-election chances. It has unintentionally made life harder for Trumps potential primary challengers and motivated his base.
It feels as though were walking toward some sort of storm and theres no honorable way to alter our course._____________
[link=https://www.ft.com/content/bfc7b490-57e1-4fe6-87d0-2ac1f5a55568]Edward Luce[/link]: [b]Trump versus the rule of law in 2024.[/b]
His goal would be to abolish the guardrails, which is a posh way of saying he will end the US republicStripped to its essence, Trump and his furies are vowing to use the machinery of federal law enforcement to punish their political enemies. To be sure, Trump tried, and mostly failed, to do that in his first term in office. His Don Corleone instincts bumped up against too many resignation threats and were hemmed in by too much adult supervision to prevail.
His second term would be no dress rehearsal. From day one, Trump would have ultra-loyalists in position to give form to his reptilian soul. No more Chris Wrays, or Jeff Rosens, or even Bill Barrs. On the military side, no more Mark Milleys or Jim Mattises. Think of Richard Grenell as secretary of state, Jeff Clark as attorney-general and Mike Flynn as secretary of defence. These are the types of thugs who Trump knows will broach no dissent. In 2016, Trump rhetorically ran against the deep state.
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I draw two conclusions from this weeks evidence of the gathering investigations into Trump. First, his party is with him. The alacrity with which figures such as Kevin McCarthy, the possible (indeed, still likely) next Speaker of the House of Representatives, and Marco Rubio, the shape-shifting Floridian senator, echoed Trumps rhetoric made that very clear. His party is too cowed to take on the Maga mob. They have signed up to a tit-for-tat view of the rule of law in which revenge will be theirs. This is beyond bleak. Second, Trumps rebooted sense of victimhood has made him the overwhelming favourite to be the 2024 Republican nominee. He could announce his candidacy at any point. A few months ago, there were telling signs that Trumps stranglehold over the party was weakening, which I wrote about here. But in this perverse world the wheels of justice are Trumps friend. The more thoroughly Garland does his job, the clearer the 2024 battle lines will be: Trump versus the rule of law
[/QUOTE]
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The arguments from Brooks & Yang, etc are we should not seek & discover, much less prosecute crimes committed by Trump because of fear of his supporters of committing crimes against police, FBI, judges & anyone else involved in the investigations and/or of motivating his supporters to re_elect Trump in 2024!
Welcome to Merca as the Republican Party & Trumpers see it. The end of Rule of Law or rather the political application of it only against Trumps enemies.
[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/11/opinion/trump-fbi-raid.html]https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/11/opinion/trump-fbi-raid.html[/link]We do not know the scope of the investigation that led a judge to authorize the search of Mar-a-Lago, though it reportedly involves classified documents that Trump failed to turn over to the government even after being [link=https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/11/us/politics/trump-fbi-subpoena.html]subpoenaed[/link]. More could be revealed soon: Attorney General Merrick Garland announced on Thursday that the Justice Department had filed a motion in court to unseal the search warrant.
It should go without saying that Trump and his followers, who howled Lock her up! about Clinton, do not believe that it is wrong for the Justice Department to pursue a probe against a presidential contender over the improper handling of classified material. What they believe is that it is wrong to pursue a case against Trump, who bonds with his acolytes through a shared sense of aggrieved victimization.
The question is how much deference the rest of us should give to this belief. No doubt, Trumps most inflamed fans might act out in horrifying ways; many are heavily armed and speak lustily about civil war. To let this dictate the workings of justice is to accept an insurrectionists veto. The far right is constantly threatening violence if it doesnt get its way. Does anyone truly believe that giving in to its blackmail will make it less aggressive?It was Trump himself who [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/08/10/trump-fbi-search-surveillance-law/?request-id=268c90d2-8be2-4c8f-8985-c3a21d7172dc&pml=1]signed a law[/link] making the removal and retention of classified documents a felony punishable by up to five years in prison. Those who think that it would be too socially disruptive to apply such a statute to him should specify which laws they believe the former president is and is not obliged to obey. And those in charge of enforcing our laws should remember that the caterwauling of the Trump camp is designed to intimidate them and such intimidation helped him become president in the first place.
Trump shouldnt be prosecuted because of politics, but he also shouldnt be spared because of them. The only relevant question is whether he committed a crime, not what crimes his devotees might commit if hes held to account.
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Quote from dergon
[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/11/opinion/fbi-trump-mar-a-lago-raid.html]David Brooks[/link]:[b]Did the F.B.I. Just Re-Elect Donald Trump?[/b]
[b] [/b]Me: Is David Brooks slow in the head.
The only people getting galvanized by the FBI serving a warrant is the crazies. There’s no walking back those people.-
Do you agree tht it has made Donald Trump more likely to be the GOP nominee than before the search?
If he is the nominee, there is a real chance that he becomes President again. Depends on a lot of factors of course, but once he has the GOP nomination he can win the EC with the right environment.-
IMO, it’s too early to decide. Trump will try to become candidate in order to protect himself from prosecution but there is a lot of time to go between the POTUS primary and what the Jan 6 committee reveals as well as the DOJ and other circumstances. He could even choke on a McDonald’s burger.
And what happes this election day will directly influence what happens next. The Dem voters need to get out there an continue voting like last midterm & 2020.-
A few points/observations
1. At what point do republicans get tired of the same old same Trump bullsheet and lies. He is getting awfully predictable to the point its like watching a rerun of the show Cheers for the 78th time
2. Is there anyone that is actually looking forward to hearing trump banking for 2 more years?
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A few points/observations
1. At what point do republicans get tired of the same old same Trump bullsheet and lies. He is getting awfully predictable to the point its like watching a rerun of the show Cheers for the 78th time
2. Is there anyone that is actually looking forward to hearing trump rambling and yelling for 2 more years
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Im usually a fan of David Brooks. However, he is horribly wrong on this take.
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Quote from dergon
[b]The Arizona GOPs Anti-Democracy Experiment[/b]
[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/15/magazine/arizona-republicans-democracy.html]New York Times[/link]: Arizona has become a bellwether for the rest of the nation, and not just because of its new status as a swing state and the first of these to be called for Joe Biden in the 2020 presidential election. It was and has continued to be the nexus of efforts by former President Donald Trump and his Republican allies to overturn the 2020 election results. At the same time, party figures from Trump down to Rose Sperry have sought to blacklist every Arizona G.O.P. official who maintained that the election was fairly won from Gov. Doug Ducey to Rusty Bowers, speaker of the states House of Representatives. Such leaders have been condemned as RINOs, or Republicans in name only, todays equivalent of the McCarthy eras fellow travelers.The aggressive takeover of the Arizona G.O.P. by its far-right wing was made manifest on primary night earlier this month, when a slate of Trump-endorsed candidates the [b]gubernatorial candidate Kari Lake, the U.S. Senate candidate Blake Masters, the state attorney general candidate Abraham Hamadeh and the secretary of state candidate Mark Finchem [/b] all prevailed. As a group, they maintain that the 2020 election was stolen, have promoted conspiracy theories about Covid and have vowed to protect Arizonas schools from gender ideology, critical race theory and what McCarthyites denounced 70 years ago as godless communism. They have cast the 2022 election as not just history-defining but potentially civilization-ending.
Well. So far so good. Masters defeated. Finchem defeated.
Hobbs has opened up a slight lead on Kari Lake but race still too close to call.
Abe Hamadeh is out there calling mail-in voting a “disenfranchisement of Republican voters”
[link=https://twitter.com/AbeWarRoom/status/1591544669611360257]https://twitter.com/AbeWa…us/1591544669611360257[/link]
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Turns out that the translation for ‘democracy in deccline’ is ‘leftists don’t like to lose’.
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Good to see that when the righties showed their true fascist nature to the nation & the world, the lefties voted to maintain and reestablish American democracy.
Now we need to continue to repair the Democratic foundations damaged all these years by the righties.-
Thank Trump for GOP not wanting to vote by mail. Im not sure why they wont wholesale dump him and move on. Its like half measures. I think you have a few people who still think they can ride his coat tails.
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
Thank Trump for GOP not wanting to vote by mail. Im not sure why they wont wholesale dump him and move on. Its like half measures. I think you have a few people who still think they can ride his coat tails.
The problem is that the GOP probably has to pay the price for dumping him for at least one election cycle.
If they kick Trump to the curb he will actively sabotage the Republican party and likely decrease base turnout to the point that the GOP suffers a blow out.
It’s just a hard pill to swallow.-
I don’t think Trump is dead just yet. To paraphrase Samuel Clements’s paraphrasing,
“The news of Trump’s death might be greatly exaggerated.”
They have been before but his core is loyal if anything. But he’s been wounded and worst of all for him, ridiculed, even by some Republicans.
I agree, he’ll be hanging around for awhile breaking the china shop as much as he can.
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Quote from Frumious
I don’t think Trump is dead just yet. To paraphrase Samuel Clements’s paraphrasing,
“The news of Trump’s death might be greatly exaggerated.”
They have been before but his core is loyal if anything. But he’s been wounded and worst of all for him, ridiculed, even by some Republicans.
I agree, he’ll be hanging around for awhile breaking the china shop as much as he can.
I agree …
Trump incited Jan 6. It was a horrible act of violence that show Trump as a fascist autocrat willing to destroy US democracy to serve his own desires… [b]and the GOP broke with him … for about 48 hours.[/b]Take McConnell for instance: He*very* much wants Trump gone. But now, instead of the other GOP Senators rallying around Mitch who, like him or hate him, has been one of the most effective politicians on either side of the aisle in US history, they are trying to oust him…. all because Trump doesn’t like him.
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Quote from Frumious
Good to see that when the righties showed their true fascist nature to the nation & the world, the lefties voted to maintain and reestablish American democracy.
Now we need to continue to repair the Democratic foundations damaged all these years by the righties.
So blind. This didnt come from the right or the left. It came from the middle. The strong majority that will always save democracy in this country, no matter what party affiliation they have, or dont.
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[b]The Arizona GOPs Anti-Democracy Experiment[/b][/h1]
[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/15/magazine/arizona-republicans-democracy.html]New York Times[/link]: Arizona has become a bellwether for the rest of the nation, and not just because of its new status as a swing state and the first of these to be called for Joe Biden in the 2020 presidential election. It was and has continued to be the nexus of efforts by former President Donald Trump and his Republican allies to overturn the 2020 election results. At the same time, party figures from Trump down to Rose Sperry have sought to blacklist every Arizona G.O.P. official who maintained that the election was fairly won from Gov. Doug Ducey to Rusty Bowers, speaker of the states House of Representatives. Such leaders have been condemned as RINOs, or Republicans in name only, todays equivalent of the McCarthy eras fellow travelers.
The aggressive takeover of the Arizona G.O.P. by its far-right wing was made manifest on primary night earlier this month, when a slate of Trump-endorsed candidates the gubernatorial candidate Kari Lake, the U.S. Senate candidate Blake Masters, the state attorney general candidate Abraham Hamadeh and the secretary of state candidate Mark Finchem all prevailed. As a group, they maintain that the 2020 election was stolen, have promoted conspiracy theories about Covid and have vowed to protect Arizonas schools from gender ideology, critical race theory and what McCarthyites denounced 70 years ago as godless communism. They have cast the 2022 election as not just history-defining but potentially civilization-ending.-
A telling quote from the article:
[b]We are not a democracy. Nowhere in the Constitution does it use the word democracy. When I hear the word democracy, I think of the democracy of the Democratic Republic of the Congo. [/b]
The ignorant fool is totally missing that republic is also in that misnomer of a name.
But there is more at stake than the health of the Republican Party when its core activists, as well as a growing number of officials and those campaigning for governmental positions, openly espouse hostility not just to democratic principles but, increasingly, to the word democracy itselfBut until very recently, democracy has been championed on the right: President George W. Bush, a subject of two books Ive written, famously promoted democracy worldwide (albeit through military aggression that arguably undermined his cause). For that matter, in Trumps speech at the rally on Jan. 6, he invoked the word democracy no fewer than four times, framing the attempt to overturn the 2020 election as a last-ditch effort to save our democracy.
But most of the G.O.P. candidates seemed to share Blisss fears of majority rule as well as a desire to inflict harsh punishment on those they perceive as threats, deviants and un-American. Possibly the most notorious Arizona Republican to appear on the primary ballot was State Senator Wendy Rogers. She was censured in March by her fellow state senators for telling a white-nationalist group, [link=https://twitter.com/BenLorber8/status/1497434562237980672?s=20&t=Fc9-WPI-z8UDQFe1LaFpVw]referring to state and federal officials who had enacted Covid vaccine mandates[/link], If we try some of these high-level criminals, convict them and use a newly built set of gallows, itll make an example of these traitors who betrayed our country.
Yet Rogers would go on to win her primary, easily defeating a fellow G.O.P. state senator, [link=https://www.azmirror.com/2022/06/30/the-fbi-subpoenaed-karen-fann-and-kelly-townsend-for-information-on-the-january-6-insurrection/]Kelly Townsend, whose communications with Trump lawyers have been subpoenaed by the F.B.I.,[/link] presumably for information she might have about the plot by Trump allies to replace Arizonas legitimate electors with fake ones. No moderate herself, [link=https://www.12news.com/article/news/politics/elections/kelly-townsend-encourages-vigilantes-camp-outside-ballot-drop-off-boxes-is-that-legal/75-3395bf65-7624-4ee5-a447-241b05c9da1f]Townsend recently vowed that vigilantes at primary polling stations[/link] would monitor voters they deemed suspicious: Were going to have people parked out there watching you, and theyre going to follow you to your car and get your license plate.
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[b]Another Trump Search Warrant?[/b][/h1]
A [link=https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1559167998971224066?s=21&t=A3WDsHTnhSwm62vCm4v7aQ]Department of Justice filing[/link] this morning indicates that the other search warrant signed by Magistrate Judge Bruce Reinhart on August 5 is not related to the search of Mar-a-Lago.INTERESTING: DOJ indicates in a filing this AM that the *other* search warrant signed by Magistrate Reinhart on Aug. 5 is NOT related to the search of Mar-a-Lago. pic.twitter.com/vyUavHZ0GO
— Kyle Cheney (@kyledcheney) August 15, 2022
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[link=https://thehill.com/homenews/3605078-former-romney-strategist-gop-is-lost-has-become-autocratic-party/]https://thehill.com/homen…come-autocratic-party/[/link]
[h1][b]Former Romney strategist Stuart Stevens: GOP has become autocratic party[/b][/h1]
“I think its a big mistake if we make this too much about Trump, because really this is about the complete abandonment of a Republican Party, a major political party and one of the two major political parties in America, abandoning the concept of what it means to operate within a democratic system.”Jan. 6 was not just an isolated event. It wasnt some rave. It is part of a calculated, very patient effort by Republicans to change the way that we vote in America, change the way that we count votes in America, and they are doing that because they know that as America changes, they are losing a majority support of Americans and they have to do something. It has become an autocratic party.”
To be an American you have to exist in a system in which you believe both sides can have merit. And if the other side wins, you are willing to lose. Thats the essence of it. And thats the difference between us in what happens in Russia, us and what is now happening in Hungary.”
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[link=https://www.thebulwark.com/the-problem-with-right-wing-regime-talk/]The Problem With Right-Wing Regime Talk
[/link]What the new paranoid buzzword reveals about the New Right.
Slangy and cynical, the term the Regime is freighted with meaning. It demonstrates to the very online Gen Z New Right that the user is [i]based[/i]. (Its no coincidence that many of the writers throwing the term around are recent college graduates.) It signals a rejection of the premises and the defeatism of the postwar conservative movement. Its more encompassing than the Deep State and more militarized than the Swamp, but like those terms has the effect of conjuring a faceless [i]other[/i] to opposethereby allowing conservatives to stay in the familiar stance of a persecuted minority opposing powerful, pernicious forces.
The emergence of Regime talk shows how ideas once on the fringe of the American right are becoming received wisdom. Above all, it demonstrates the rights dangerous lack of commitment to democracy and the rule of law.
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{T}he mainstreaming of the Regime shows an alarming loss of trust in the foundations of liberal democracy.
At the most basic level, calling the stable, democratically elected Biden administration the regime demonizes the rights political opponents. The United States isnt behind the Iron Curtain. The only other article with the [i]Federalist[/i]s [link=https://thefederalist.com/tag/regime/]The Regime tag[/link] is about Venezuelas Maduro regime. You get the point. In Americas increasingly polarized environment, the rights use of Regime talk further divides by refusing to acknowledge the Democratic party as legitimate.
In functioning democracies, it is vital that political blocs accept their opponents electoral victories as definitive and their existence as licit. … Mainstreaming Regime talk is mainstreaming the end of democratic trust.
Regime rhetoric doesnt just undermine trust in democratic opponents. It undercuts faith in public information and the rule of lawboth critical foundations of modern democracy.[/QUOTE]
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This also, justifying right-wing allegiance to conservative media bubble rejecting any & all other.
Media bias no doubt exists. But the Regime treats the Fourth Estateand academiaas apparatchiks of the state allegedly fabricating stories to tarnish the right. [b]When this becomes common practice on the right, as if journalistic commitment to facts or genuine expertise dont exist, we reach a point where the only sources of information that segments of the right-wing base will trust are conservative media and conspiratorial influencers.[/b]
Likewise, if the U.S. government really is merely elites wielding the state against its enemies, theres no reason to trust that the enforcement of any federal law could be impartial. (See, for instance, [link=https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/1557846239646871552?s=20&t=UWIHTFLOud55qWxfSx3XoQ]Donald Trump Jr.s reaction to the news that Merrick Garland approved the Mar-a-Lago search[/link].) The rights erosion of trust in the rule of law encourages grievances, sets the stage for future flashpoints, and risks [link=https://twitter.com/josh_hammer/status/1556798218754736128?s=20&t=UWIHTFLOud55qWxfSx3XoQ]right-wing retribution[/link] for perceived attacks.
So the FBI was not acting alone as everyone was told… As usual allies never had up and the “conspiracy theorists” were right yet again.
You can’t trust a single thing these people tell you!!! https://t.co/9Bd3taMC90— Donald Trump Jr. (@DonaldJTrumpJr) August 11, 2022
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[h1]Biden: MAGA Republicans a Threat to Democracy, Has Turned Toward Semi-Fascism[/h1] [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/08/25/fiery-midterm-speech-biden-says-gops-turned-toward-semi-fascism/]Washington Post[/link]: President Biden on Thursday night launched a push toward the midterm elections with a fiery speech in Rockville, Md., in which he cast the Republican Party as one that was dangerously consumed with anti-democratic forces that had turned toward semi-fascism.
It was some of the strongest language used by Biden, a politician long known and at times criticized for his willingness to work with members of the opposite party.
Said Biden: The MAGA Republicans dont just threaten our personal rights and economic security. Theyre a threat to our very democracy. They refuse to accept the will of the people. They embrace embrace political violence. They dont believe in democracy.
What were seeing now is either the beginning or the death knell of an extreme MAGA philosophy. Its not just Trump, its the entire philosophy that underpins the Im going to say something its like semi-fascism.
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Now THAT is a huge mindset change for Biden!
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Well done. Take the war right to them. Finally someone on that side made sure to isolate the offenders. Maga Republicans.
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Quote from Thread Killer
Well done. Take the war right to them. Finally someone on that side made sure to isolate the offenders. Maga Republicans.
You’re right. Al least he did not criticize any Republican who voted in support of Biden’s & Democrats’ legislation.
Um, who exactly were the Republicans not at least passively supporting Trump & MAGA & Trumpism?
OK, Cheney, Kinzinger on the Committee. Anyone else?-
Im talking about voters. Frumi. Youll never understand but at least maybe Biden does.
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Your “Republicans-forBiden/Democrats” voters are not reliable by any stretch of the imagination. Anymore than Nixon’s “Democrats for Nixon” were for his campaigns in 1968 and 1972. Or Republican support for Democrat candidates were in 2020.
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Well they and independents like me are very important. There are more than you like to admit. I can tell you for sure we are much more likely to be reliable if we aren’t called deplorable and lumped in with the MAGA types.
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[link=https://www.npr.org/2022/08/22/1118768047/this-former-gop-hatchet-man-didnt-support-trump-but-still-enabled-him]https://www.npr.org/2022/08/22/1118768047/this-former-gop-hatchet-man-didnt-support-trump-but-still-enabled-him[/link]
[link=https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/fresh-air/id214089682?i=1000576982131]https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/fresh-air/id214089682?i=1000576982131[/link]
[link=https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/06/30/tim-miller-republican-campaigns-00043250]https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/06/30/tim-miller-republican-campaigns-00043250[/link]
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LOL
As Tim Miller observed in his self and GOP analysis, there is little difference between your “independents” and republicans who dislike Trump and Trumpism and MAGA with those who actively support Trump, Trumpism and MAGA. Holding your nose while voting is at best empty virtue signaling; it weighs zero on the actual vote they/you cast. Tim Miller’s book is all about holding his nose while supporting the Trump-supporting RNC.
As for supporting Republicans because you feel defensive because Democrats look down on you for voting for Trump & Trump-supporting Republicans, well… That’s on you entirely.
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Quote from Frumious
LOL
As Tim Miller observed in his self and GOP analysis, there is little difference between your “independents” and republicans who dislike Trump and Trumpism and MAGA with those who actively support Trump, Trumpism and MAGA. Holding your nose while voting is at best empty virtue signaling; it weighs zero on the actual vote they/you cast. Tim Miller’s book is all about holding his nose while supporting the Trump-supporting RNC.
As for supporting Republicans because you feel defensive because Democrats look down on you for voting for Trump & Trump-supporting Republicans, well… That’s on you entirely.
Again you don’t get it. I’m not suggesting we will “hold our nose and vote Republican”. I am suggesting if you give us a better option and don’t insult us we will help your team.
We are the people that voted for Obama and anyone other than Trump in ’16. There are many more now than in even ’20.
Are you pleased with yourself for insulting us because you know what we think despite telling you the opposite? Just the way Hillary did?
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2 things:
” The lady doth protest too much, methinks ”
and as Tywin Lannister told his nephew in GOT, you are not the king if you have to keep telling everyone you are.
So if you or anyone vote for Trump or Trumpers because of paranoid defensiveness about being looked down upon for such support, well whose fault is that exactly???
And Hillary? Really???
You mean Hillary lost in 2016 because she called 1/2 of Trump supporters deplorables? You are actually trying to argue that these Trump supporters would have voted for her had she not described their support of Trump deplorable?
How exactly does that make sense? Trump voters would have voted for her had she not?
Its an idiotic argument.
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Nobody I know is voting for Trump or Trumpers. Get over it.
Not me, but millions that would never vote for him now did in 16 and 20. Many because they couldnt stomach Hillary the person, even if her policy positions were moderate.
Amazingly that deplorables comment was incredibly damaging. You know nothing about voting habits.
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You might as well argue that one votes for fascists because Liberals & Democrats make fun of people who support fascists.
Yes, makes total sense.
The real argument is if you dont support Trump & Trumpism in your voting, why do you assume you are one of the deplorables being criticized?
I might as well argue that I vote liberal Democratic because Tucker & Hannity & Trump & all the Trumper Republicans & all the rest are mean to me. I want to cry when I listen to Trump & Tucker say mean things about me. Thats why I vote Democratic, out of resentment. If you people werent so mean, Id vote Trump & Gaetz & Greene, etc.
Yeah, stop bogarting the doobie.
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Another perfect Frumi argument. Make up an absurd example of what you think the other person is saying and then tear it down as absurd. Brilliant.
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Quote from Frumious
You mean Hillary lost in 2016 because she called 1/2 of Trump supporters deplorables? You are actually trying to argue that these Trump supporters would have voted for her had she not described their support of Trump deplorable?
How exactly does that make sense? Trump voters would have voted for her had she not?
Its an idiotic argument.
If you dont recognize the voting dynamics at play in 16 you are doomed to repeat the failure. You and I want the same outcome now and in 24. Are you that ignorant that you wont listen to or accept help from someone on another team. You can keep misrepresenting my argument and goals if you like. I hope it gives you some solace as you watch your team get beaten over and over.
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Lick your wounds. You have my sympathy.
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LOL. No wounds here.
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Wasnt that a jimbo argument
Im voting for trump just to make the aunt Minnie libs mad
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Still wondering why ADHD/Killer’s rationale argument form Trump support does not hold for Liberals/Democrats. Forget making fun, the vitriol from the Right is more than palpable & yet any Liberal/Democrat saying they vote Democrat because of right-wingnut resentment is ridiculous and they would be laughed out of whatever bar they were drunk in.
[link=https://www.npr.org/transcripts/1118768047]https://www.npr.org/transcripts/1118768047[/link]
This from the Tim Miller interview on Fresh Air answers ADHD/Killer’s complaint regarding resentment as the cause for Trump support:MILLER: I started doing these interviews with only people who I knew knew better – right? – friends of mine who had told me they didn’t like Trump at some point over history. And so I thought they were much more interesting than – you know, we know that Stephen Miller hates the left, right? You know that there are all these – that there’s a handful of sociopaths, a handful of bigots, a handful of idiots that work for Donald Trump. I didn’t find any of those people interesting. This book is about the people who knew better but went along anyway.
And so that’s why I was surprised when, repeatedly, kind of otherwise gentle people, people that I knew to be, you know, volunteers in their community and, you know, people who I did not think of as jerks – right? – would get a couple of beers in them, [b]and then they would start ranting to me about how mad they are at us Never Trumpers and The Lincoln Project and The Bulwark and the media and how the media is out to get them and how woke culture is out to get them and how their wife’s friend called them a racist at a dinner party. And this was repetitive and many of the conversations that were on background.[/b]
And then my friend Caroline, who I end the book with, said this to me on the record. I asked her, you know, at the end, [b]what was it she liked about Trump? And she literally said, I actually think it’s all negative. I’m just so sick of the people with their Priuses and their coexist stickers drinking their coffee coladas and wagging their finger at me[/b]. And I was like, this is preposterous. I don’t – you know, she mentioned plastic – or paper straws. [b]I was like, I don’t like paper straws, either, but voting for Donald Trump over it?[/b]
[b]But what I realized was, in this D.C. culture that I’m now separate from, having been cast out of the party, that is – at dinner parties, that is what they do to comfort themselves, right? They talk about all the things that have made them mad about the left, and they have this deep-seated anger and hatred towards the left and towards Obama and towards the media[/b] that I never really had. I was playing this game the whole time, which has its own problems, as we’ve been discussing. [b]But they were developing a real-life anger that allowed them to justify working for somebody they knew was dangerous.[/b]
Idiocy in any language, no matter how it’s spun.
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Quote from Frumious
Still wondering why ADHD/Killer’s rationale argument form Trump support does not hold for Liberals/Democrats. Forget making fun, the vitriol from the Right is more than palpable & yet any Liberal/Democrat saying they vote Democrat because of right-wingnut resentment is ridiculous and they would be laughed out of whatever bar they were drunk in.
[link=https://www.npr.org/transcripts/1118768047]https://www.npr.org/transcripts/1118768047[/link]
This from the Tim Miller interview on Fresh Air answers ADHD/Killer’s complaint regarding resentment as the cause for Trump support:
MILLER: I started doing these interviews with only people who I knew knew better – right? – friends of mine who had told me they didn’t like Trump at some point over history. And so I thought they were much more interesting than – you know, we know that Stephen Miller hates the left, right? You know that there are all these – that there’s a handful of sociopaths, a handful of bigots, a handful of idiots that work for Donald Trump. I didn’t find any of those people interesting. This book is about the people who knew better but went along anyway.
And so that’s why I was surprised when, repeatedly, kind of otherwise gentle people, people that I knew to be, you know, volunteers in their community and, you know, people who I did not think of as jerks – right? – would get a couple of beers in them, [b]and then they would start ranting to me about how mad they are at us Never Trumpers and The Lincoln Project and The Bulwark and the media and how the media is out to get them and how woke culture is out to get them and how their wife’s friend called them a racist at a dinner party. And this was repetitive and many of the conversations that were on background.[/b]
And then my friend Caroline, who I end the book with, said this to me on the record. I asked her, you know, at the end, [b]what was it she liked about Trump? And she literally said, I actually think it’s all negative. I’m just so sick of the people with their Priuses and their coexist stickers drinking their coffee coladas and wagging their finger at me[/b]. And I was like, this is preposterous. I don’t – you know, she mentioned plastic – or paper straws. [b]I was like, I don’t like paper straws, either, but voting for Donald Trump over it?[/b]
[b]But what I realized was, in this D.C. culture that I’m now separate from, having been cast out of the party, that is – at dinner parties, that is what they do to comfort themselves, right? They talk about all the things that have made them mad about the left, and they have this deep-seated anger and hatred towards the left and towards Obama and towards the media[/b] that I never really had. I was playing this game the whole time, which has its own problems, as we’ve been discussing. [b]But they were developing a real-life anger that allowed them to justify working for somebody they knew was dangerous.[/b]
Idiocy in any language, no matter how it’s spun.
This one makes me laugh. You really don’t get it. I listened to that interview live on NPR. Tim and I see it exactly the same. I even got to it before he did. I’ve been at those same cocktail parties. I pity him for not seeing it sooner. Who knows what kept him from recognizing how absurd his position was at the time.
I thought by participating here I could share with you just as I shared other Democrat friends the same things he just did, years earlier. Oh well, not everyone is capable of listening.
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A basket of deplorable semi-fascists.
A move ensuring MAGApublicans wont vote Democratic because their feelings are hurt being called out.
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/08/26/biden-midterms-rhetoric-strategy-campaign/]https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/08/26/biden-midterms-rhetoric-strategy-campaign/[/link]On Thursday night, he used [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/08/25/fiery-midterm-speech-biden-says-gops-turned-toward-semi-fascism/?itid=lk_inline_manual_5]newly ramped-up rhetoric[/link] in ways that the White House and Bidens political advisers are signaling will be part of a no-holds-barred strategy for the midterms. The president accused the GOP of semi-fascism and said he doesnt respect, and cant work with, MAGA Republicans who he said embrace political violence. He hardened his assertion that democracy is under threat, and said the country could be facing the sort of test that comes every few generations, one of the moments that changes everything.
From a high school auditorium in Rockville, Md., Biden also mocked Rep. Andy Harris (R-Md.) for touting a local project he had voted against. White House aides spent the late afternoon using the official Twitter account normally reserved for policy charts, press releases and fact sheets to go on the attack. They went viral by naming Republicans, like [link=https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/1562916200866267138]Marjorie Taylor Greene[/link] and [link=https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/1562916212841103360]Matt Gaetz[/link], who had criticized student loan forgiveness while benefiting from their own business loan forgiveness.
Its not hyperbole, Biden said. Now you need to vote to literally save democracy again.
Republicans criticized Biden for some of his rhetoric, with the Republican National Committee calling it despicable and others saying it was out of line. Pointing to the large number of Americans who voted for Trump, some suggested that Bidens dismissing the Republican philosophy as like semi-fascism was similar to Hillary Clintons aside in 2016 that half of Trumps supporters were a basket of deplorables.
But it was clear that Bidens comments a portion of which were made at a fundraiser where reporters were present, but TV cameras were not on were delivered as intended. The White House defended the remarks Friday, including the line that much of the GOP has descended into semi-fascism.
You look at the definition of fascism and you think about what theyre doing in attacking our democracy, what theyre doing and taking away our freedoms, wanting to take away our rights, our voting rights I mean, that is what that is, White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre said. It is very clear.
Biden himself, asked Friday what he had meant by semi-fascism, smiled broadly. You know what I mean, he said.
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[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/08/26/white-house-twitter-megan-coyne/]https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/08/26/white-house-twitter-megan-coyne/[/link]
But the White House tweets have succeeded in changing the conversation, and they did not go unnoticed. Democrats responded with enthusiasm, with nearly 200,000 people retweeting the thread and more than 700,000 liking it as of Friday afternoon, making it one of the White Houses highest engagement tweets ever. The White House account gained more than 49,000 followers Thursday and more than 71,000 on Friday, far more than the couple thousand it generally gains per day, according to data from Social Blade.
[b]Hey, WH staff, just so you know, if youre going to continue to drag these hypocrites with clear and hard-hitting messaging, you run a serious risk of surging enthusiasm, electoral success, and continued improvements to the lives of millions of Americans, author Scott Lynch wrote in response to the tweet.[/b]
Democratic strategists said they welcomed the fiery new approach to the White Houses Twitter account.For a really long time now, so many activists within the Democratic Party have wanted to see Democrats and obviously the president in terms of just tone and directness, start fighting fire with fire, said Kurt Bardella, a former Republican who now consults for Democrats.
The White House account, Bardella added, is showing a certain personality that we havent seen yet from this administration, and it was incredibly effective. We saw it had a very galvanizing impact in terms of how the Democratic apparatus responded to it. There was an enthusiasm there that also matches the moment that were in right now.
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Hearing Rocky music in the background
And mick in the corner yelling
go to the body Rock -
I love how these two freak out at my suggestions and then give examples of how Im right.
Frumi you do realize your last few links have shared exactly what I was warning you was going on and how to deal with it?
Yesterday I applauded Biden for finally taking the right approach. For some reason it lead to you and chiro working on the Frumi proof. Thankfully it ended up proving how right I am over and over.
Brilliant. I couldnt have done it better myself.
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You are truly a man ahead of your time
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Quote from Chirorad84
Wasnt that a jimbo argument
Im voting for trump just to make the aunt Minnie libs mad
Could be. JBB was pretty pathetic when it came to arguments.
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I can understand why you keep flailing away defending your losing strategy though. You cant argue on a pure policy basis. You should back to the student debt thread.
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Funny though yesterday you scolded me by saying that I was playing into the the other side is worse argument
Must be nice to sit on all sides of the fence
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Yes. The other side is worse argument should be avoided and I point that out every time I see it.
That has never been my argument but I know you and Frumi like to try to prove it is so you can tear it apart.
Ill now watch as you two try to do it again.
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Looks like I struck a nerve chiro. Im sorry.
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[link=https://warontherocks.com/2022/09/to-support-and-defend-principles-of-civilian-control-and-best-practices-of-civil-military-relations/]An open letter[/link]
[i]Signatories:[/i]Former Secretaries of Defense
Dr. Ashton Baldwin Carter
William Sebastian Cohen
Dr. Mark Thomas Esper
Dr. Robert Michael Gates
Charles Timothy Hagel
James Norman Mattis
Leon Edward Panetta
Dr. William James PerryFormer Chairmen of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Gen. (ret.) Martin Edward Dempsey
Gen. (ret.) Joseph Francis Dunford Jr.
Adm. (ret.) Michael Glenn Mullen
Gen. (ret.) Richard Bowman Myers
Gen. (ret.) Peter Pace
[h1]Former Pentagon Leaders Warn of a Dangerous Era[/h1]
[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/06/us/politics/trump-military-letter.html]New York Times[/link]The challenge to a peaceful transfer of power after President Donald Trump lost the 2020 election has worsened an extremely adverse environment for the U.S. military, [link=https://warontherocks.com/2022/09/to-support-and-defend-principles-of-civilian-control-and-best-practices-of-civil-military-relations/]according to an open letter[/link] signed by several top generals and former defense secretaries
The letter does not mention Mr. Trump by name. But in 16 points on the principles that are supposed to define civil-military relations, the signatories issued a thinly veiled indictment of Mr. Trump and the legions of his followers who called on the military to support his false claim that the election was stolen from him.
Two former defense secretaries who served under Mr. Trump, Jim Mattis and Mark T. Esper, were among those who signed the letter.
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Those military professionals are why I scoffed at the idea that our democracy was in an accelerating decline. Two of those names I spoke with directly. This contributed to my optimism.
Under threat? Sure. Thankfully we have plenty of people who are willing to step up and do the right thing.
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And the *next* time Trump wins (or some other autocrat who learned from Trump’s first failed attempt), those signatories above won’t be there.
Trump will fill the upper ranks of the military with toadies and sycophants (say hello to Joint Chief of Staff Michael Flynn). He will do the same on the civilian side in the DOJ and FBI and other agencies.
For more: [link=https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/08/trump-2024-reelection-viktor-orban-hungary/671264/]https://www.theatlantic.c…-orban-hungary/671264/[/link]-
Im going to assume you are being facetious with the Trump wins part.
Sure that would be his plan. There isnt a snowballs chance in hell of that happening.
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