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Report: Global Democracy Under Threat, US Democracy in “accelerating decline”
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Quote from Cubsfan10
How would you have answered this question in November-December of 2015? Just curious. Because I remember at the time a large (not majority) percentage of Leftists answered a similar question in the affirmative. I tried to find it but its hard to find such things 5 years old. We all remember though a lot of Left-wing people justifying the BLM violence/riots though and that’s quite similar as it is a form of political violence.
And perhaps you can’t find it because it’s only something you imagined, it was never real.
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1) BLM riots [b][/b] political violence meant to overturn the 2020 election. Full false equivalency.
__________
2) I don’t like the wording in the poll. “Sometimes” without further qualification is way to broad. For instance, had Trump declared martial law due to “massive voter fraud” in 2020 and remained in office despite the Biden win would I, dergon, have thought that violent action to remove him was justified? Hell yes.
_________
3) Regarding independents: Don’t confuse “independent” with “non-partisan” or “centrist.” The vast majority of independents have a strong preference for a certain party. Without break down on partisan among those independents the numbers don’t mean a ton in this poll.
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A friend who is a conservative Republican tried to link the 2, Jan 6 and BLM demonstrations as a few crazies dressed in costumes (as if people really trying to overthrow an election would wear, what? Dress suits?) vs every city that has any BLM demonstration was very violent in total lawlessness. Would not hear of it when I said many BLM demonstrations had no violence and ALL those “blue” cities still stand with no burned down areas.
I wondered where he could be getting information 180° from reality and if you google “BLM demonstrations,” you will find most Red media with stories about very violent demonstrations, “hundreds” of violent demonstrations as “studies” show, fully rejecting any peaceful demonstrations happened at all. Like Byron York’s Twit claiming a Princeton study (take that Libs, Princeton says so!) found just such rampant violence.
[link=https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2020/09/08/new-study-shows-majority-of-blm-protests-turned-violent-n2575801]https://townhall.com/tips…urned-violent-n2575801[/link]
For months Democrats and their allies in the media have claimed Black Lives Matter protests in cities across the country have been “mostly peaceful.” Recently, CNN ran a chyron that stated “fiery but mostly peaceful” as a building in Kenosha, Wisconsin burned to the ground.
But contrary to the narrative and according to a new study from Princeton University, over the past four months hundreds of “protests” have turned into violent, destructive riots.
However, if you bother to actually open the study & read it, its conclusions (mere opinion?) are the total opposite.
[link=https://acleddata.com/acleddatanew/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/ACLED_USDataReview_Sum2020_SeptWebPDF.pdf]https://acleddata.com/acl…Sum2020_SeptWebPDF.pdf[/link]
An Overwhelmingly Peaceful Movement
The vast majority of demonstration events associated with the BLM movement are non-violent (see map below). In more than 93% of all demonstrations connected to the movement, demonstrators have not engaged in violence or destructive activity. Peaceful protests are reported in over 2,400 distinct locations around the country. Violent demonstrations, meanwhile, have been limited to fewer than 220 locations under 10% of the areas that experienced peaceful protests.
Yet, despite data indicating that demonstrations associated with the BLM movement are overwhelmingly peaceful, one recent poll suggested that 42% of respondents believe most protesters [associated with the BLM movement] are trying to incite violence or destroy property (FiveThirtyEight, 5 June 2020). This is in line with the Civiqs tracking poll which finds that net approval for the Black Lives Matter movement peaked back on June 3 [the week following the killing of George Floyd when riots first began to be reported] and has fallen sharply since (USA Today, 31 August 2020; Civiqs, 29 August 2020).
Research from the University of Washington indicates that this disparity stems from political orientation and biased media framing (Washington Post, 24 August 2020), such as disproportionate coverage of violent demonstrations (Business Insider, 11 June 2020). Groups like the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) have documented organized disinformation campaigns aimed at spreading a deliberate mischaracterization of groups or movements [involved in the protests], such as portraying activists who support Black Lives Matter as violent extremists or claiming that antifa is a terrorist organization coordinated or manipulated by nebulous external forces (ADL, 2020). These disinformation campaigns may be contributing to the decline in public support for the BLM movement after the initial increase following Floyds killing, especially amongst the white population (USA Today, 31 August 2020; Civiqs, 30 August 2020a, 30 August 2020b). This waning support also comes as the Trump administration recently shifted its law and order messaging to target local Democratic Party politicians from urban areas, particularly on the campaign trail (NPR, 27 August 2020).
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Quote from dergon
1) BLM riots [b][/b] political violence meant to overturn the 2020 election. Full false equivalency.
__________
2) I don’t like the wording in the poll. “Sometimes” without further qualification is way to broad. For instance, had Trump declared martial law due to “massive voter fraud” in 2020 and remained in office despite the Biden win would I, dergon, have thought that violent action to remove him was justified? Hell yes.
_________
3) Regarding independents: Don’t confuse “independent” with “non-partisan” or “centrist.” The vast majority of independents have a strong preference for a certain party. Without break down on partisan among those independents the numbers don’t mean a ton in this poll.
This is how I see it and I almost replied with the same answer as 2).
That poll is a very poor example to support a case of accelerating decline here.
dergon the Bullwark piece is compelling and shows how important it is that there is clarity and common sense in the vote certification process.
Still, I dont think there is any doubt there is a vast majority of people that will fight for our democracy when necessary. Now, in the mean time watching this types of energizing fail, get the things done that dergon suggested in the 2022 election poll. What she said also.-
Again the apples to orangutan arguments
Both sides are the same
No they arent
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Both sides is Putins Russian propaganda argument that only claims Well, your hands arent completely clean, so you cant criticize. As if all dirt is the same.
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There is a difference between dirt and sheet
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on to the “global” front —
[b]Trump Endorses Hungarys Viktor Orbán[/b]
Former President Donald Trump [link=https://twitter.com/ShaneGoldmacher/status/1477997873010819078?s=20]gave[/link] Hungarys Viktor Orbán his Complete support and Endorsement.
Meanwhile, from the [link=https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/03/world/europe/eu-hungary-threat.html]New York Times[/link]: After long indulging him, leaders in the European Union now widely consider one of their own, Prime Minister Viktor Orban of Hungary, an existential threat to a bloc that holds itself up as a model of human rights and the rule of law.I don't typically screenshot Trump endorsements but this merits an exception:
Hungary's Viktor Orbán has Trump's "Complete support and Endorsement" pic.twitter.com/Yymp3uDlOa
— Shane Goldmacher (@ShaneGoldmacher) January 3, 2022
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The new Republican right-wing hero, Viktor Orban, defender of…well, it’s not democracy.
During Obama’s terms, Putin was their pin-up calendar hero. Bare-chested on the horse, leader of the…well, not the free world anyway.-
Chiro. Can you read or was your response not to me? Why bring up the both sides argument again?
The poll was trying to show the sides. It a poor indicator of the health of our democracy. Thats it.
Dergon explained why it was worded poorly and I agree. There are times when violence is necessary. Sometimes is not now.
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My response was to QFan
Phone doesnt let me respond directly
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Yawn…something something billions of dollars of damage and months of violence…not important….
I can’t take any of you seriously honestly. If you want to have a serious discussion about “threats to democracy” then you need to FIRMLY admit that 1. The Russia lie was exposed and was a hugely important attempt to de-legitimize a President (way more dangerous than 1/6) 2. BLM riots were violent, destructive, and a backward step for democracy and freedom of assembly
1/6 was a joke compared to those two things and it’s clear that the Left even knows it which is why they hype it so much to try to hide the real issues.
The Left always accuses the Right of things they are already doing.
Who was authoritarian on covid?
Who was responsible for billions of dollars of damages and months of violence?
Who paid for a smear piece on a sitting President and impeached him essentially because of it?
And yet who screams out the other side is a “threat to democracy”, “authoritarian,” etc.?
It’s actually hilarious and sad at this point.
But hey, that’s what desperation looks like, isn’t it?-
The Russia lie. The Russians are getting exactly what they want via Trump and the maga movement.
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[b]Jimmy Carter: I Fear for Our Democracy[/b][/h1] [link=https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/05/opinion/jan-6-jimmy-carter.html]
Jimmy Carter[/link]: Our great nation now teeters on the brink of a widening abyss. Without immediate action, we are at genuine risk of civil conflict and losing our precious democracy. Americans must set aside differences and work together before it is too late.
I now fear that what we have fought so hard to achieve globally the right to free, fair elections, unhindered by strongman politicians who seek nothing more than to grow their own power has become dangerously fragile at home.
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Carter writes “[color=”#0f1419″]people of all political stripes must agree on fundamental constitutional principles and norms of fairness, civility and respect for the rule of law” …. Unfortunately, the problem is that they don’t. That’s quaint pre-Trump thinking there.[/color]
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[b]The Next Insurrection is Coming[/b][/h1]
[link=https://messagebox.substack.com/p/stopping-the-next-insurrection-starts?token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjoxMTM1MDIsInBvc3RfaWQiOjQ2NjUxMDQ5LCJfIjoibzVQVG8iLCJpYXQiOjE2NDE0NzM2NzMsImV4cCI6MTY0MTQ3NzI3MywiaXNzIjoicHViLTY1MDI2Iiwic3ViIjoicG9zdC1yZWFjdGlvbiJ9.806FI3KQJfr4_mcwyd-9FcScGUiuCu6YM-0vP4F_mPY]Dan Pfeiffer[/link]: The fact Republicans are moving ahead with a plan to steal the election in 2024 without fear of consequence is frightening and depressing. The political winds heading into the midterms are at their backs. Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema remain more interested in protecting their centrist credentials than American democracy. Too much of the political media has normalized election theft as a legitimate political strategy in a fruitless attempt to avoid accusations of bias.
The time, place, and plan for perhaps the greatest crime in American history have been identified. We have three years to stop it. Yet, our political leaders are either unwilling or unable to intervene.-
Joe supposed to address Jan 6th today
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
Joe supposed to address Jan 6th today
Biden just gave the best speech of his Presidency
[link=https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/06/watch-live-president-joe-biden-addresses-jan-6-capitol-riot-anniversary.html]Watch live: President Joe Biden addresses the nation on Jan. 6 Capitol riot anniversary[/link]
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From the newspaper I read after snowblowong the driveways for the second time:
[link=https://saltwire.pressreader.com/the-chronicle-herald-provincial/20220108/page/2/textview]https://saltwire.pressrea…220108/page/2/textview[/link]
Ill be teaching, probably online, my course on Canada U.S. relations this winter semester. And I know exactly where Im going to start as the opening class ice-breaker, if you will.
As we mark the one-year anniversary of the disturbing events of the so-called 1-6 insurrection, when a large mob of Donald Trump loyalists and militia types sought to reverse the results of the 2020 U.S. presidential election, Ill ask my students whether history could repeat itself in 2024. Moreover, if it was successful the next time around, Ill follow up, how do you think that members of the U.S. military would respond?
Recently, three retired U.S. military generals sounded the alarm about the potential for a deadly coup attempt supported by American armed forces personnel. In their mid-december Washington Post op-ed piece, they wrote frighteningly about the possibility of a post-2024 presidential election aftermath of lethal chaos inside our military, which would put all Americans at severe risk.
It is worth recalling that the U.S. military tends to be conservative-leaning as an institution and most likely in terms of its voting preference. Secondly, a group of 124 retired military officials released a letter in May of 2020 calling into question, like Trump himself at that time, the legitimacy of the November 2020 presidential elections (and challenging then-democratic presidential candidate Joe Bidens medical health). Thirdly, some 10 per cent of the Jan. 6 Capitol rioters had military service records and thus were either veterans or active-duty members.
According to the op-ed submission, the commanding officer of the Oklahoma National Guard, Brig.-gen. Thomas Mancino, refused an order from President Joe Biden to inoculate all members of the U.S. National Guard. The authors go on to posit: The potential for a total breakdown of the chain of command along partisan lines from the top of the chain to squad level is significant should another insurrection occur.
They then go on to write alarmingly: The idea of rogue units organizing among themselves to support the rightful commander in chief cannot be dismissed. What would happen, the retired generals wonder, if there were two commanders in chief a newly reelected Biden giving orders, versus Trump (or another Trumpian figure) issuing orders as the head of a shadow government.
Lets assume for the sake of argument that there is an overthrow of a democratically elected government after the 2024 U.S. presidential elections. What would all of this mean for Canada-u.s. relations? The Canadian government, of course, would have no choice but to respond quickly and forcefully.
Bilaterally speaking, official Ottawa would have to condemn publicly the coupplotters and likely withdraw the Canadian ambassador to the United States. It would also have to give some serious thought to severing completely Canadas diplomatic relations with the U.S. Furthermore, commercial interactions and the sanctity of trade agreements may have to be reconsidered.
One obvious area of concern would be predicting how members of the Canadian military would respond to a coup situation south of the border interconnected nature of the two countries militaries. It would be hoped that the military brass in Canada would fall into line and back the federal governments implacable opposition to the coup. But we have had instances in the past where the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) have acted without the approval of its political masters such as during the negotiations of the bilateral NORAD agreement in the late 1950s and the Cuban Missile Crisis of the early 1960s.
From a multilateral standpoint, Canada would need to be active within the halls of the United Nations (UN) in cobbling together a statement of international condemnation. And as a blatant violation of the UN Charter, Canada would have to raise the possibility of imposing tough economic sanctions against the U.S.
Within the leading hemispheric forum, the Organization of American States (OAS), Canadian officials would also need to be fully engaged. The invocation of the OAS Inter-american Democratic Charter, which Canada played a central role in crafting in Quebec City in April of 2001, would be clearly called for. As Article 1 stipulates: The peoples of the Americas have a right to democracy and their governments have an obligation to promote and defend it.
Needless to say, a successful military coup or insurrection in the U.S. would have profound implications for Canada. It would have to immediately reassess the nature and extent of the entire bilateral relationship. Virtually every aspect of Canada-u.s. relations would have to be on the table.
Indeed, there would be no easy or cost-free way for Canada to respond to such a shocking and devastating outcome. It would truly be the worst possible news for Canada and leave us in a highly precarious and vulnerable position. To be prudent, though, Canadian foreign and defence policy officials should be planning for the worst-case scenario in 2024 and praying that the good generals have gotten it wrong.
Peter Mckenna is professor of political science at the University of Prince Edward Island.
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This line of thinking is perhaps the worst of the worry porn. No surprise it come from our esteemed neighbors. Let them know walshnuc we will take care of ourselves and then them just fine when it comes down to it.
I explained before that each of the retired Joint Chiefs and a retired Commander of the Pacific Fleet I have talked to know the chain of command is sound and there is no threat described here, even if a few retired generals think it is worth doing some war games scenarios over. Our military is prepared for this.-
A variation of the nothing-burger argument. Nothing to see, it does not exist. The whole world is panicking over nothing.
Zzzzzzzzz.-
Hahaha. Yep! Youll have to trust me.
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After another read I realized Frumi is just addicted to worry porn. Plus that whole NB argument is absurd. As with every discussion I have in here, my reasoning does not dismiss the reality of the negative outcomes. I merely explain ways to address the problem by acknowledging it and moving forward with a sound plan that will work.
Frumi, do you even realize what you are doing in here? Its honestly sad. You have nothing to share but your addiction.
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I don’t why you want to use “worry porn” as a pejorative. At the bare minimum, concerns over the decline of the state of American democracy are prevalent among many leaders and experts.
You may have a lower level of concern, but to essentially insult people who share the concern of experts is just wrong, imho.
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/06/01/frantic-warning-100-leading-experts-our-democracy-is-grave-danger/]https://www.washingtonpos…cracy-is-grave-danger/[/link]
A frantic warning from 100 leading experts: Our democracy is in grave danger
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Quote from Thread Killer
This line of thinking is perhaps the worst of the worry porn. No surprise it come from our esteemed neighbors. Let them know walshnuc we will take care of ourselves and then them just fine when it comes down to it.
Thanks Uncle TK. That will allay any irrational concerns we might have. We can stop making plans to build a wall to keep illegals from crossing our southern border.
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I knew it would be taken that way. Sorry for that. Every family needs some worriers. Please do continue to share. Its important to know whats needed by the people who will do something about it.
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That’s ok TK, I’m not really worried. Worse case scenario for us would be short term economic implications as the US is our largest traing partner. Since Covid I’m getting used to staycations and not going to Myrtle Beach.
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[link=https://www.thebulwark.com/i-spent-insurrection-week-listening-to-steve-bannon/]Tim Miller
[/link]
[h1]I Spent Insurrection Week Listening to Steve Bannon[/h1] [b]Where the Trump coup is real, spectacular, and ongoing.[/b]
What I found was that their effort to overthrow the government has been undeterred by the initial setback of Joe Biden being inaugurated. While Republican elites try to minimize the events of Jan. 6th, the War Room and their minions have continued to take the coup both [link=https://www.thebulwark.com/trumps-voters-took-the-coup-literally-and-seriously/]literally and seriously[/link]. In their view the Biden regime is illegitimate and the regimes medical establishment has covered up nearly a half a million deaths from the COVID vaccines.
In 2022 they aim to put so many of their people in positions of power throughout state and local governments that next time there will be nothing anyone can do to stop their quest for power. And this crusade is infused with an unmistakable religious fervor and appeal to a [link=https://twitter.com/dukekwondc/status/1479303622697500678]quasi-Christian nationalism[/link] that calls it devotees into action.
As crazy as their show may sound on its faceand let me tell you it seems very crazyanyone who cares about American democracy [link=https://twitter.com/Timodc/status/1479179532594597888]should take that prospect very seriously indeed[/link].[/QUOTE]
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Reading that 11 voters in NC have files suit to keep Cawthorn off the ballot. Saying the 14th amendment section 3 bans him. Actually this is an interesting lawsuit because it sure seems to have merit.
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
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Lol
You guys are becoming a parody.
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US loses its place as oldest democracy & is redefined as anocracy (mezzamezz democracy) instead according to Center for Systemic Peace.
[link=https://www.systemicpeace.org/]https://www.systemicpeace.org/[/link][b]NOTE: The USA dropped below the “democracy threshold” (+6) on the POLITY scale in 2020 and
was considered an anocracy (+5) at the end of the year 2020; the USA score for 2021 returned to democracy (+8).[/b]
Users of the Polity data series should be aware that Polity measures patterns of authority demonstrated and observed in political behaviors involving interaction events between and within state and non-state entities. Polity measures political practices rather than proclamations. In 2016, CSP changed the coding for Political Competition in the USA to Factional Competition (i.e., POLCOMP=7); this coding change dropped the USA’s POLITY score to +8. According to the PITF Global Model, this change to “factional competition” placed the USA at [link=https://www.systemicpeace.org/vlibrary/PITFForecastingInstabilityAJPS2010.pdf]high risk of impending political instability[/link] (i.e., adverse regime change and/or onset of political violence). In 2019, CSP changed the USA code for Executive Constraints (EXCONST) from 7 to 6 due to the executive’s systematic rejection of congressional oversight. In 2020, the coding for Executive Constraints fell another two points due to the executive’s systematic purge of “disloyalists” from the administration, forceful response to protest, villification of the main opposition parties; and undermining public trust in the electoral process, reducing the USA POLITY score for 2020 to +5 (anocracy). The CSP COUP dataset lists an “attempted coup” (COUP=2) for the USA on 6 January 2021. The new executive administration that took office on 20 January 2021 corrected the EXREC deficiencies of the previous administration: the EXCONST code for the USA at the end of 2021 is coded 7 once again; however, the POLCOMP code remains 7 (factional), returning the POLITY score for the USA to +8 in 2021.[link=https://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/25/us-is-no-longer-a-full-democracy-eiu-warns.html]https://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/25/us-is-no-longer-a-full-democracy-eiu-warns.html[/link]
The U.S. has been demoted from a full democracy to a flawed democracy for the first time, according to the Economist Intelligence Unit (EIU).
Every year, the firm’s Democracy Index provides a snapshot of global democracy by scoring countries on five categories: electoral process and pluralism; civil liberties; the functioning of government; political participation; and political culture. Nations are then classified under four types of governments: full democracy, flawed democracy, hybrid regime and authoritarian regime.America’s score fell to 7.98 last year from 8.05 in 2015, below the 8.00 threshold for a full democracy, the EIU announced in a report on Wednesday. That put the world’s largest economy on the same footing as Italy, [link=https://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/08/founder-of-italys-5-star-proposes-divorce-from-ukip-in-eu-parliament.html]a country known for its fractious politics[/link].
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[link=https://rollcall.com/2022/01/05/jan-6-2021-the-new-right-and-a-republic-at-risk/]https://rollcall.com/2022…nd-a-republic-at-risk/[/link]
[h2][b]Jan. 6, 2021, the New Right and a republic at risk[/b][/h2] [h3][b]Once an outlier, the fringe is now in control of the GOP[/b][/h3]
Stuart RothenbergI should have memorized Alan Crawfords 1980 book Thunder on the Right: The New Right and the Politics of Resentment, which warned about the danger that a populist, reactionary movement would pose to the rule of law.
As Crawford wrote:
[i] there appears an alarming impatience with the complex and cumbersome processes of government, an anti-institutionalism that often manifests itself in a frivolous disregard for established channels, a desire as (Pat) Buchanan and (Kevin) Phillips put it, to end-run the bureaucracy, the courts, and even Congress and state legislatures. As such, the politics of the New Right may be more aptly described as radical, or reactionary, populism, seeking to incite a revolt (or many small revolts) of the people against the institutions of representative government.[/i] (pp. 317-318).
[i]Convinced that the political system is corrupt, the New Rightists distrust and resent those who work within it, since those who do must compromise; and cooperation means cooperation with the liberal enemy. Only the loners are pure. Consequently, any right-of-center politician to achieve a truly national stature is automatically suspect. By the time they get into a position to help us, they are no longer one of us, M Stanton Evans has explained. Those who work with the liberals are soft or squishy.[/i] (p. 239).…
The insurrectionists of Jan. 6, 2021 as well as attorneys Sidney Powell, John Eastman and Jeffrey Clark, former Trump national security adviser Michael Flynn, former White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, too many members of Congress, and Trump had a lot in common with the populists of the New Right.
But in 1980, most Republican members of Congress had respect for their institution, for the rule of law and even for their partisan opponents...
Now, unfortunately, the GOP has capitulated to Trump and his allies. There are few, if any, Howard Bakers, Bob Doles or Bob Michels still around. What Alan Crawford warned about has happened. And the Republic is at risk.
[/QUOTE]
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Its a description that acknowledges the reality that whats more important is what to do about it, not that its wrong to be concerned. Every time I make a suggestion you and Frumi come back with another example of experts that are worried.
You and them must have some belief as to why its important to tell us over and over that our democracy is at risk. We know it is and its worth fighting for.
Rather than getting out there and joining forces with those in the rival party to fight for it, you seem more content to point out who the bad guys are.
Im sorry you cant see that.
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It was walshnuc who posted the article, the one you called worry-porn (an improvement from past descriptions of panic-porn articles about COVID?) from his local newspaper in Canada, so that undermines your argument a bit. Id advise you get out of your bubble and also peruse more foreign media. You will see very similar concerns about our hard anti-democracy turn to the Right.
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Undermine my argument? When I heard the term I first thought of you. The Canadian was the first I chose to use it for. It seemed apropos. If you read my response you would know I recognized it wasnt you.
It does bother me when all people do is post others negative takes and then cant engage in any reasoned discussion when someone suggests ways to make it better.
But I know Im a Pollyanna so I just to get to call you an addict.
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Just read the rest of your climax. If you actually read what I wrote you would know that I too am concerned about the hard to to the right. Our democracy is just the way to fix it. Would like to participate in the process? I can tell you its more rewarding than posting in Internet forums, especially here where nobody is watching.
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Irony. Thou have met your match.
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Just read some long thread about how Schumer can get the voting rights legislation to the floor. Something called messages between houses. If it goes back and forth 3 times in the reconciliation process the filibuster cannot be used in the senate. Interesting. Not sure why this hasnt t ever happened before.
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Lets see what the parliamentarian has to say before getting too excited
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….and Biden is part of the decline.
[link=https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-follows-the-trump-playbook-voting-rights-elections-georgia-lies-speech-2022-2020-11642114705]https://www.wsj.com/artic…-2022-2020-11642114705[/link]
(may be paywalled, should come up on a Google search with a incognito browser)Biden Follows the Trump Playbook
His Georgia speechs demagoguery echoes his predecessors from just over a year ago.Like her or not, she is right on the facts.
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One should be highly suspicious about both sides arguments, especially such criticisms from a WSJ editorial board member unfavorably comparing & conflating Biden as no better than Trump. The writer along with other WSJ board members has been a faithful booster & cheerleader of Trump & all his actions including supporting Birtherism & this stolen election mythology. The criticisms she suddenly lists for Trump have been supported for years by the WSJ editorial board. This paragraph is comical in light of prior editorials & their claims.
Mr. Biden ran on a promise to lower the temperature, and what a joke that has been. It turns out Democrats and the media have no real problem after all with a hyperbolic, name-calling, factually challenged president. Just so long as that president is their guy.
This is identical to calling Obama the most racially divisive president by Republicans.
Any accuracy in her opinion is accidental & beside her point.
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I didnt like Bidens speech either.
It wasnt going to move the needle and gave tons of ammo to the both sides people
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Exactly right dergon. It gets pretty difficult when the only defense is their side is worse
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Even if its true.
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Got to wonder whether this was written by staff or whether this was the same as the Afghanistan debacle where he exercised his powers as ‘the decider’.
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Quote from fw
Got to wonder whether this was written by staff or whether this was the same as the Afghanistan debacle where he exercised his powers as ‘the decider’.
It feels like a planned pivot for political purposes.
After a year of trying to keep the high ground, starting around the Jan 6 anniversary Biden took a new more combative and partisan tone.
I think that’s likely them looking at his approval and the fact that the decline is being driven by loss of Democrat support. Feels like it’s a base strategy for the mid-terms.
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I don’t think Biden ever had a chance to overcome Manchin’s and Sinema’s opposition to any bill the pair did not view as bi-partisan for their cover, regardless of everything and anything. The fact that they could not show their rightness in the argument by coming up with Republicans who would join in is irrelevant. I think Biden finally came to the conclusion that his old pals in the Senate would join with Lindsey Graham & burn any and all bridges that might have existed for real or were just ornamental decoration. This “which side are you on?” is his recognition of the reality.
Biden’s speech was for the Democrats disappointed that he cannot pull a magical rabbit out of his hat with 48 votes & declare a Progressive victory with Progressive proposals like voting rights now that we all know that racism is a thing of the past.
It was theater for the core. Biden just does not do the same political rallies that Trump does, he does pressers.
His biggest problem is walking that thin line between reality and inability to grant Progressives their Xmas wish list with his 48 votes while keeping them engaged even though Santa left only 1 present, the actual bilateral infrastructure bill. Meantime the media will definitely daily list his inability to get more than this.
The single thing Manchin is correct in is his admonition, if you want more Democratic proposals to pass, then get some more Democrats elected.
Republicans have the advantage in that they don’t have to do anything except oppose everything proposed by Democrats while Democrats have to show something. -
Quote from dergon
After a year of trying to keep the high ground, starting around the [b]Jan 6 anniversary Biden took a new more combative and partisan tone.[/b]
I think that’s likely them looking at his approval and the fact that the decline is being driven by loss of Democrat support. Feels like it’s a base strategy for the mid-terms.
The key is to take that tone to war against individual people that do bad. Trump and his supporters are a good examples. When that tone becomes universal against all who have been labeled the “other side”, it fails to be a good political strategy. He should remember politics is about getting the most people to vote for you.
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what is the high ground? You have someone like Mitch who complain about eliminating the filibuster and the dems are crazy. He says that now but he’d drop the filibuster in a heartbeat to pass GOP bills. In fact I’m pretty sure they did a whole bunch of times make carve outs.
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Trump had an executive order written up ordering the Secretary of Defense to seize voting machines and appoint a special counsel to probe the 2020 election. It was dated Dec 16, 2020. It was never issued, or if it was, wasnt carried out.
[link=https://www.politico.com/news/2022/0…achines-527572]https://www.politico.com/news/2022/01/21/read-the-never-issued-trump-order-that-would-have-seized-voting-machines-527572[/link]
Its not clear who wrote either document. But the draft executive order is dated Dec. 16, 2020, and is consistent with proposals that lawyer Sidney Powell made to the then-president. On Dec. 18, 2020, Powell, former Trump national security adviser Michael Flynn, former Trump administration lawyer Emily Newman, and former Overstock.com CEO Patrick Byrne met with Trump in the Oval Office.
The order empowers the defense secretary to seize, collect, retain and analyze all machines, equipment, electronically stored information, and material records required for retention under a U.S. law that relates to preservation of election records. It also cites a lawsuit filed in 2017 against Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger.
Additionally, the draft order would have given the defense secretary 60 days to write an assessment of the 2020 election. That suggests it could have been a gambit to keep Trump in power until at least mid-February of 2021.
In that meeting, Powell urged Trump to seize voting machines and to appointher as a special counsel to investigate the election, [link=https://www.axios.com/trump-oval-office-meeting-sidney-powell-a8e1e466-2e42-42d0-9cf1-26eb267f8723.html]according to Axios[/link].-
Also…. straight out of the fascist playbook … the order is titled “Remarks on National Healing”
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One year later, its the [link=https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/redirect-to/?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bostonglobe.com%2F2021%2F01%2F25%2Fopinion%2Ftwo-mobs-stormed-capitol-one-maga-hats-other-expensive-suits%2F]second band of insurrectionists[/link], the ones wearing suits and ties, that pose the most serious threat. The next attempted coup will not be a violent overthrow of the Capitol, but a carefully plotted and even technically legal one, subverting election machinery and exploiting various constitutional loopholes. It is [link=https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/redirect-to/?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theatlantic.com%2Fmagazine%2Farchive%2F2022%2F01%2Fjanuary-6-insurrection-trump-coup-2024-election%2F620843%2F]well under way[/link]. Its plotters have learned important lessons from last years rushed and often-buffoonish dress rehearsal. New laws have been [link=https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/redirect-to/?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fi%2F]passed[/link] by state legislatures under the pretext of halting election fraud that will instead abet the next big lie. Its frighteningly imaginable to see how it succeeds.
[link=https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/redirect-to/?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fcommentisfree%2F2022%2Fjan%2F10%2Frepublicans-election-democracy-seven-ways-trump]https://www.theguardian.com/commenti…ven-ways-trump[/link]
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[link=https://www.newsweek.com/liz-cheney-issues-warning-after-newt-gingrich-says-1-6-committee-members-may-face-jail-1672013]Newt Gingrich Says 1/6 Committee Members May be Put in Prison
[/link]
Gingrich, who served as House Speaker from 1995 to 1999, made the remarks during an interview with [link=https://www.newsweek.com/topic/fox-news]Fox News[/link] on Sunday morning. He predicted what will happened to the January 6 committee if [link=https://www.newsweek.com/topic/republicans]Republicans[/link] take control of [link=https://www.newsweek.com/topic/congress]Congress[/link]. “The wolves are gonna find out that they’re now sheep, and they’re the ones whoin fact, I thinkface a real risk of jail for the kind of laws they’re breaking,” Gingrich said.
Liz Cheney, [link=https://www.newsweek.com/liz-cheney-says-gop-must-loyal-either-trump-constitution-cannot-both-1664868]a staunch Trump critic[/link], serves as the vice-chair of the House select committee investigating the January 6 violence. She tweeted a response to Gingrich’s threat later on Sunday.
“A former Speaker of the House is threatening jail time for members of Congress who are investigating the violent January 6 attack on our Capitol and our Constitution,” the Wyoming Republican wrote. “This is what it looks like when the rule of law unravels.”[/QUOTE]
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[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/01/26/trump-2024-electoral-count-act-reform/]https://www.washingtonpos…oral-count-act-reform/[/link]
What would a 2024 Trump coup look like? A new paper offers a worrying answer.[/h1]
Understanding these weaknesses {in the American electoral system} has concrete utility right now. It will help shape Congresss efforts to shore them up via reform of the Electoral Count Act of 1887, or ECA, which governs how Congress counts presidential electors.
Heres the unsettling reality: If the ECA isnt revised, under certain scenarios, all it would take for a future effort to succeed is a single corrupt GOP governor and a GOP-controlled House of Representatives.
This pathway to a subverted 2024 election is spelled out in the [link=https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4018380]new paper[/link] by legal scholar Matthew Seligman, who has written extensively about [link=https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3283457]the ECAs history and weaknesses[/link], and the ways Trump [link=https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3939020]tried to exploit them[/link] in 2020.[/QUOTE]
paper link:[link=https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4018380 ]https://papers.ssrn.com/s…tract_id=4018380 [/link] A Realistic Risk Assessment of the Presidential Election of 2024
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Greg Sargent adds this note: ‘David Perdue is running for governor in Georgia on t[b]he explicit claim that he wouldn’t have certified Biden’s electors[/b].” All it takes is one governor like him, plus House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, who’s tolerating rampant insurrectionism in his ranks”
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Exactly why everyone should be pushing for electoral count act reform. Stop trying to tie all election reform together.
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[h1][b]Arizona Bill Would Allow Legislature to Overturn Election Results[/b][/h1]
Arizona state Rep. John Fillmore (R) introduced legislation this week that would, among other things, get rid of almost all absentee and early voting in the state and mandate all votes be hand-counted within 24 hours of polling sites being closed, [link=https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/28/politics/arizona-john-fillmore-gop-election-results-bill/index.html]CNN[/link] reports
But Fillmores bill would go even further than putting strictures on when and how you can vote. It would also empower the state legislature to accept or reject election results in the state.
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This is the quiet part out loud. GQP wants to take your voting rights away. Theres a lady running for governor in AZ whos a special brand of crazy too.
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[link=https://twitter.com/BillKristol/status/1487939062363262981]https://twitter.com/BillKristol/status/1487939062363262981[/link]
Trump statement on Electoral Count Reform
Bill Kristol”Talk about saying the quiet part loud. Trump here admits or rather boasts that what he wanted Mike Pence to do was to “overturn the election.”
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See we could do it because now theyre trying to stop us. Although I have trouble drawing a conclusion in Pence not certifying and overturning. The states didnt seem like they were changing votes. So how that equals a Trump win is baffling.
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[h1][b]Two GOP Candidates Encourage Election Interference, Armed[/b][/h1]
Two candidates for state office in Michigan, both Republicans, encouraged supporters to interfere with election processes, and come armed to polling places, in a recent joint appearance, [link=https://www.deadlinedetroit.com/articles/29810/two_michigan_gop_candidates_encourage_election_interference_including_showing_up_armed_at_polls]Deadline Detroit[/link] reports.
Said gubernatorial candidate Ryan Kelley (R): If you see something you dont like happening with the machines, unplug it from the wall.
State Senate candidate Mike Detmer (R) went further, advising the audience to be prepared to lock and load So you ask, what can we do? Show up armed Make sure that justice prevails.
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Has anyone come out and said these two are crazy?
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[h1][b]Trump Had Two Drafted Orders to Seize Voting Machines[/b][/h1]
Former President Donald Trumps advisers drafted two versions of an executive order to seize voting machines one directing the Department of Defense to do so and another the Department of Homeland Security as part of a broader effort to undermine the 2020 election results, [link=https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/31/politics/trump-executive-orders-seize-voting-machines/]CNN[/link] reports.
The idea of using the federal government to access voting machines in states that Trump lost was the brainchild of retired Col. Phil Waldron and retired Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn, Trumps former national security adviser.
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
Has anyone come out and said these two are crazy?
Plenty. Probably not the ones you want but there are plenty. Including the two of us.
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[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/31/us/politics/donald-trump-election-results-fraud-voting-machines.html]https://www.nytimes.com/2…d-voting-machines.html[/link]
[b]Trump Had Role in Weighing Proposals to Seize Voting Machines[/b]
New accounts show that the former president was more directly involved than previously known in plans developed by outside advisers to use national security agencies to seek evidence of fraud.
In the Oval Office, Trump raised possibility with Barr of whether DOJ could seize them. Trump directed Rudy to call DHS about it. -
Stephen Colbert on Trump’s plan to seize voting machines: “Do you know how crazy you have to be to hear you’ve gone too far from Rudy Giuliani?”
[link=https://youtu.be/d5k000XZLVM]https://youtu.be/d5k000XZLVM[/link]
To be clear, the former president, still the leader of one of the two major parties, who has all of the Republicans balls in a little velvet pouch that he wears around his neck like an amulet, wanted U.S. troops to go into your local polling place, grab the machines, throw them in a truck, then God knows what? Waterboard them til they said he won? [b]You should be alarmed, even if you voted for him. Because military coups do not lead to healthy societies.[/b] No one ever says, If only we could emulate the economic miracle that is Myanmar.
Do you know how crazy you have to be to hear that youve gone too far for Rudy Giuliani?! Thats like hearing youve had too much to drink from Rudy Giuliani. Or youve got to get those bottom teeth fixed, from Rudy Giuliani. Or dont try to fish your penis out of your pants in front of a [i]Borat [/i]film crew, from Rudy Giuliani!
