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  • btomba_77

    Member
    March 31, 2022 at 4:30 am

    [link=https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-house-maps-republican-bias-will-plummet-in-2022-because-of-gerrymandering/]The House Maps Republican Bias Will Plummet In 2022 Because Of Gerrymandering

    [/link]

    So while some of the specific numbers will change, we now have a good sense of what the [link=https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-countless-confusing-sometimes-contradictory-takeaways-of-the-2021-22-redistricting-cycle/]big-picture takeaway[/link] from this redistricting cycle will be. No matter which way you slice it, Democrats have gained blue seats from the mapmaking process, making[b] the House playing field between the two parties more balanced than it has been in decades[/b]. But that doesnt mean the 2022 congressional map should be considered fair.

    The tipping-point congressional district the one that theoretically would be the majority-clinching 218th seat for either party should be historically close. [b]Since 1996, the tipping-point House seat has always had a FiveThirtyEight partisan lean of R+2.7 or redder. In recent years, its been closer to R+5 meaning, in theory, Democrats have to win the national aggregate House vote by roughly 5 or more percentage points to win a majority in the House. Depending on how things shake out in the remaining four states, the tipping-point seat could be anywhere from R+1.0 to R+1.9 in 2022.[/b]

    Even in Democrats worst-case scenario at this point, the Houses long-standing (were talking over 50 years) [link=https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/advantage-gop/]bias toward Republicans[/link] would drastically diminish. That would certainly be historic but it wouldnt mean everything is finally hunky-dory with our congressional maps. Some of this increase in balance is thanks to courts striking down Republican gerrymanders in states such as [link=https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/redistricting-2022-maps/north-carolina/]North Carolina[/link], but Democrats achieved this near-parity mostly through gerrymanders of their own in states such as [link=https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/redistricting-2022-maps/new-york/]New York[/link] and [link=https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/redistricting-2022-maps/illinois/]Illinois[/link]. [b]The result is an overall national map that [/b][b][i]looks[/i] fair but individual state maps that are anything but.[/b]
    [/QUOTE]

  • btomba_77

    Member
    March 31, 2022 at 3:27 pm

    [h1][b]Judge Strikes Down New York Maps[/b][/h1]  
     
    A New York judge on Thursday struck down the states new congressional and legislative maps as defying a voter-backed constitutional amendment that aimed to end partisan gerrymandering, dealing a blow to Democrats hoping to hold onto their fragile majority in the House this November, the [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/03/31/new-york-judge-strikes-down-democratic-drawn-maps/?wpmk=1&wpisrc=al_politics__alert-politics&pwapi_token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJjb29raWVuYW1lIjoid3BfY3J0aWQiLCJpc3MiOiJDYXJ0YSIsImNvb2tpZXZhbHVlIjoiNTk2Y2U0M2ZhZGU0ZTI0MTE5ZDhkMjU0IiwidGFnIjoiNjI0NjI3ZmFjMjA5OTM0YjNkMTQxYzBlIiwidXJsIjoiaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cud2FzaGluZ3RvbnBvc3QuY29tL3BvbGl0aWNzLzIwMjIvMDMvMzEvbmV3LXlvcmstanVkZ2Utc3RyaWtlcy1kb3duLWRlbW9jcmF0aWMtZHJhd24tbWFwcy8_d3Btaz0xJndwaXNyYz1hbF9wb2xpdGljc19fYWxlcnQtcG9saXRpY3MifQ.9kQaEH_aQWzuVZtQXu7SV8iFx2D5xBF4wyhPJiyiKSw]Washington Post[/link] reports.
     
    New York Democrats drew a new congressional map with boundaries that could gain their party as many as three new seats, a crucial advantage at a time when the House majority will come down to just a handful of wins.
     

  • btomba_77

    Member
    April 14, 2022 at 4:15 am

    [h1][b]DeSantis Releases New 20/8 Florida Map[/b][/h1]  
    Gov. Ron DeSantis on Wednesday kept his promise and proposed a redistricting map that blows up the states current congressional districts, creates four additional Republican-leaning seats, and eliminates at least two districts now held by Black Democrats in North and Central Florida, the [link=https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2022/04/13/desantis-releases-new-congressional-redistricting-map-with-key-senate-backing/]Tampa Bay Times[/link] reports.
     
    The map would create 20 Republican-performing districts and eight Democrat-leaning districts and is expected to be quickly approved by the Republican-controlled Legislature next week when it meets in a special session called by the governor. The current split of the Florida congressional delegation is 16 Republicans and 11 Democrats, and the state gets an additional district because of its population growth.
     

    • satyanar

      Member
      April 14, 2022 at 12:00 pm

      Why we have a judicial branch.

      • clickpenguin_460

        Member
        April 14, 2022 at 5:31 pm

        I wondered why I hadn’t heard much in the media about gerrymandering going into the ’22 elections.
         
        Now I see why.
         
        [link=https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/redistricting-2022-maps/?cid=rrpromo]https://projects.fivethir…2022-maps/?cid=rrpromo[/link]

        • satyanar

          Member
          April 14, 2022 at 6:14 pm

          Cool site Cub. It’s nice not having a tribe. I can root for more “competitive” districts while others root for the home team. I will say it is disappointing how the “highly competitive” districts dwindle. 

          • btomba_77

            Member
            April 22, 2022 at 5:11 am

            [h1]Appeals Court Rules New York Maps Are Illegal[/h1]  
            A New York appeals court ruled on Thursday that new congressional districts drawn by Democrats violated the states ban on partisan gerrymandering, partially upholding a lower-court ruling that would block the state from using the lines in this years critical midterm elections, the [link=https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/21/nyregion/redistricting-lawsuit-new-york.html?referringSource=articleShare]New York Times[/link] reports.

            ____________

            I hate to admit it … but …. I was wrong.

            I have been a big advocate of non-partisan/citizen redistricting efforts.  But it looks like the net result of those efforts is that only Blue state legislatures adopt them while Red states do not, leaving the overall net effect as a Republican national advantage in the House.

            If California was able to do what Florida just did, they could get to a plausible 50-2 map.   Now NY hamstrung by its own rules. Until there’s some federal legislation forcing every state to play by the same rules, non-partisan redistricting looks like it’s just hindering the Democratic party at the national level.
             

  • btomba_77

    Member
    April 27, 2022 at 2:41 pm

    New York Maps Thrown Out[/h1]  
    New Yorks highest court [link=https://www.nycourts.gov/ctapps/Decisions/2022/Apr22/60opn22-Decision.pdf]has thrown out[/link] the states new congressional and legislative district maps, potentially pushing the 2022 primaries into late summer.
    A special master not the Democratic-controlled legislature will now draw a new House map.

     

  • btomba_77

    Member
    May 26, 2022 at 5:00 am

    [link=https://centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/articles/redistricting-the-overall-picture-plus-a-look-at-ny-and-mo/]Larry Sabatos Crystal Ball[/link]: The book is nearly closed on the decennial redistricting process. And by at least one metric, the new House landscape is very much like the old landscape: It tilts toward Republicans.
     
    However, this GOP bias is not nearly as strong as it was a decade ago.
     

    • satyanar

      Member
      May 26, 2022 at 7:05 am

      Sounds like an incline for our democracy. 

      • btomba_77

        Member
        May 26, 2022 at 7:24 am

        No. Quite the opposite.
         
        It’s just that Democrats decided to be just as aggressive in attempted gerrymandering as Republicans this time around.
         

        • satyanar

          Member
          May 26, 2022 at 12:04 pm

          Good point. “Balanced” can be pretty extreme on the poles.

  • btomba_77

    Member
    June 15, 2022 at 10:31 am

    [h1]New National House Map Is Biased Towards Republicans … But slightly less so[/h1]  
    [link=https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-new-national-congressional-map-is-biased-toward-republicans/]FiveThirtyEight[/link]:

    As has been true for decades, this national congressional map is biased toward Republicans. Assuming Louisianas congressional map is reinstated upon appeal, the 2022 House map will feature 208 congressional districts with a [link=https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-red-or-blue-is-your-state-your-congressional-district/]FiveThirtyEight partisan lean[/link] of R+5 or redder, compared with 187 districts that have a FiveThirtyEight partisan lean of D+5 or bluer. Throw in the highly competitive seats, and 225 districts would be more Republican than the country as a whole, while 210 would be more Democratic.
     
    In other words, if the national House popular vote were perfectly tied, Republicans would theoretically win 225 seats and Democrats would win 210 (ignoring, for now, other factors like candidate quality).
     
    By this measure, however, Democrats are actually in a slightly better position than they were before, having added a handful of Democratic-leaning seats.[/QUOTE]
     

    • btomba_77

      Member
      November 13, 2022 at 6:06 am

      A true *Asterisk mid-term election

      For the first time since 1934 the party in control of the White House did not lose a single state legislative chamber.

      [h1][b]Democrats Surged to Flip State Legislatures[/b][/h1]  
      After years of watching Republicans dominate in down-ballot races, Democrats turned the tables to their own advantage in the midterm elections, flipping some legislative chambers from GOP control and blocking efforts to create veto-proof majorities in others, the [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/11/12/democratic-state-legislatures-midterms/]Washington Post[/link] reports.
       
       
       
       

      • kayla.meyer_144

        Member
        November 13, 2022 at 7:16 am

        “Democrats surged.”
         
        As late as 2000 election, Ralph Nader ran on the platform that both parties are the same. I did not agree at the time and it certainly is not true today as the Republicans have moved so far right as to enter Fascist territory. Even Ralph concedes this fact today.
         
        This opinion piece by Ezra Klein says much about what’s on my mind about voters, especially the swing voters. What do they stand for if they can so easily swing back and forth between the 2 Parties so easily.
         
        Unless the swing voter is largely a myth?
         
        It’s the Democratic voters who care about democratic ideas who turn out to elect Democrats. That’s the way it’s been for the past elections. And the young voters turned out this past election who are largely Democratic and Liberal.
         
        [link=https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/12/opinion/election-midterm-pattern.html?searchResultPosition=3]https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/12/opinion/election-midterm-pattern.html[/link]
         

        After losing in 2012, Republicans knew they needed a kinder, gentler approach to a diversifying America. Then Donald Trump offered exactly the opposite and won. After losing in 2004, Democrats believed they needed a drawling good old boy who could reconnect them with the heartland. Then Barack Hussein Obama ran for president and bent the arc of American history.
         
        In September, John Sides, Chris Tausanovitch, and Lynn Vavreck released [link=https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691213453/the-bitter-end]The Bitter End[/link]: The 2020 Presidential Campaign and the Challenge to American Democracy. The authors, who are all political scientists, spent the last two years gathering, crosschecking, collating and analyzing the data on the 2020 election. What they found clarifies not just 2020, but 2016 and 2022: Because politics is so calcified, virtually nothing matters, but because elections are so close, virtually everything matters.
         
        The cause of this calcification is no mystery. As the national parties diverge, voters cease switching between them. That the Republican and Democratic Parties have kept the same names for so long obscures how much theyve changed. I find this statistic shocking, and perhaps you will, too: In 1952, only 50 percent of voters said they saw a big difference between the Democratic and Republican Parties. By 1984, it was 62 percent. In 2004, it was 76 percent. By 2020, it was 90 percent.

        The yawning differences between the parties have made swing voters not just an endangered species, but a bizarre one. [b]How muddled must your beliefs about politics be to shift regularly between Republican and Democratic Parties that agree on so little?[/b]

        You could see it in this election. Herschel Walker is a terrible candidate. Hes dogged by a history of infidelity, abuse and abortion a problem, you would think, for a candidate running as a social conservative. One of his own advisers said he [link=https://www.thedailybeast.com/herschel-walker-lied-about-his-secret-kids-to-his-own-campaign]lies[/link] like hes breathing. Voters arent stupid: They know Walker is a flawed man. But theres a reason he netted enough support to force a runoff with Raphael Warnock.
         
        Or take it the other way: I am not John Fettermans doctor and I dont know the extent of the damage his stroke inflicted. Still, the impairments it left are visible, and in another era, might have stalled his political career. But if you were supporting Fetterman before, switching your vote to Dr. Mehmet Oz because Fetterman had a stroke is a kind of lunacy. Fetterman, at any level of impairment, will be part of a coalition that protects womens reproductive autonomy and tries to decarbonize the economy and fights to expand health care. Oz would have been part of a coalition that seeks to do the opposite on every count.
         
        Calcification, on its own, would produce a truly frozen politics. In some states, it does, with effective one-party rule leading to a politics devoid of true accountability or competition. But nationally, political control teeters, election after election, on a knifes edge. Thats another strange dynamic of our era: Persistent parity between the parties.
         
        Calcification and parity describe the structure of American politics. But another idea, cultural backlash, describes the substance of not just American politics, but that of many other countries as well.
         
        The cultural backlash theory comes from the political scientists Pippa Norris and Ron Inglehart. Inglehart, who died last year, is famous for tracking the post-materialist turn in global politics. Starting around the 1970s, generations raised in relative affluence began to care less about traditional economic issues and more about questions of personal autonomy and social values. The core fights of politics turned away from the distribution of money to the preservation of the environment and womens bodily autonomy and marriage equality.
         
        These changes were generational, and theyve moved steadily from the margins of politics to the center. Thats led to a backlash among those opposed to, or simply disoriented by, the speed at which social mores are shifting, and the rise, in countries all over the world, of a post-materialist right. Thats led to a slew of right-wing parties that care more about culture and identity than tax cuts and deregulation.

        Compare the Republican Party of 2010 to the Republican Party of 2022. In 2010, Republicans ran on an economic theory I thought was wrong, but was at least clear. The Obama administration was spending too much. The rise in debt was scaring businesses and burdening households. What Washington needed was adults whod tighten the proverbial belt and bring back fiscal discipline. Republicans made their obsession with repealing Obamacare the central fight in American politics for a solid decade. In 2010, voters angry about the economy could vote for a party that was also angry about the economy, and that seemed to have a plan for what to do about it.
         
        Fast forward to 2022. I suspect one reason Republicans werent better able to weaponize inflation is that the post-materialist right is too muddled in its thinking on economic policy to have converged on a clear message. Are Republicans the party of spending more or of spending less? Yes, they are. Do Republicans believe the prices Americans are paying are too high or, as their vows to repeal Medicare drug negotiation and Obamacare subsidies suggest, too low? Yes. Is the economy running too hot because the government has pumped in too much money or does it need yet more support in the form of full extension of the Trump tax cuts? Absolutely.
         
        Inflation may be a problem, but Republicans never credibly presented themselves as a solution. Todays Republican Party is obsessed with critical race theory and whether Dr. Seuss is being canceled. It is not obsessed with economic growth and health care policy.
         
        [b]American politics has become less about which party is good for your wallet and more about whether the cultural changes of the past 50 years delight or dismay you.[/b]

         
         

        • satyanar

          Member
          November 13, 2022 at 8:14 am

          Quote from Frumious

          The yawning differences between the parties have made swing voters not just an endangered species, but a bizarre one. [b]How muddled must your beliefs about politics be to shift regularly between Republican and Democratic Parties that agree on so little?[/b]

           
          And there it is. Frumi’s approach to winning elections. Insult the very voters they should be trying to recruit. Brilliant.
           
          Voters shift because the choices are different. Not every candidate with a party label on their back speaks for the extremes of the party. 
           

           

          • kayla.meyer_144

            Member
            November 13, 2022 at 10:26 am

            There is more to being independent than merely not declaring for one party or the other. In my 50 +/- years of voting, I was an independent not particularly liking either party but holding the lie of Vietnam against the Dems. In that 50 years I watched the GOP become more reactionary, right-wing, religious fundamentalist White Christian, using racial animus to its favor,  becoming even more anti-democratic & starting a war based on a total lie. But it took the election of Trump to make me declare for the Democratic Party. Since then I have watched the Republicans become more anti-democratic & authoritarian & White Christian nationalistic.
             
            No thanks. The choice is extremely clear to me. Republicans deserve years in the wilderness at best.
             
            What do independents actually stand for?
             
             

            • adrianoal

              Member
              November 13, 2022 at 10:38 am

              Quote from Frumious

              What do independents actually stand for?

               
              short answer: at this moment I stand for divided government

              • kayla.meyer_144

                Member
                November 13, 2022 at 4:44 pm

                Quote from BHE

                Quote from Frumious

                What do independents actually stand for?

                short answer: at this moment I stand for divided government

                I recall William Safire recommending dividing your vote for a divided government in the 1990s. Republicans tend to recommend that when their chances of being in charge of all 3 branches is low. In other words a Federal govt that is incapable of doing anything other than military.
                 
                Not my cuppa. I like competent a government that actually works to do something for all of its people.

                • satyanar

                  Member
                  November 13, 2022 at 5:08 pm

                  Typical. Dont answer the response you have no answer for.

                  • kayla.meyer_144

                    Member
                    November 13, 2022 at 6:42 pm

                    Do you have a reading comprehension problem? 
                     
                    Seems you do. 

                    • satyanar

                      Member
                      November 13, 2022 at 7:08 pm

                      Oh so you answered me? I missed it.

                • adrianoal

                  Member
                  November 13, 2022 at 9:37 pm

                  Quote from Frumious

                  Quote from BHE

                  Quote from Frumious

                  What do independents actually stand for?

                  short answer: at this moment I stand for divided government

                  Republicans tend to recommend that when their chances of being in charge of all 3 branches is low. In other words a Federal govt that is incapable of doing anything other than military.

                   
                  Actually not true. The Economist ran an article a few months ago listing a bunch of *bipartisan* things congress has passed during the Biden admin (the point of the article was to explain that the Biden admin had actually gotten quite a lot done, much of it bipartisan). I don’t have the link so can’t give the list, but I was surprised and impressed.
                   
                  Look, if I had to have 1 party in charge right now it would certainly be the Democrats. The Republicans need to fix some serious issues. But I’m pretty annoyed by the spending habits of the Democrats lately (student loan thing without actually addressing the cost problem is only 1 example)– and I say that as someone who would both vote for and strongly support us adopting the social safety net and tax practices of a typical northern European country.
                   
                  Northern Europe spends a lot, but they also care about the cost and get value for the tax money they take from their citizens. We have fallen victim to lobbyists for healthcare, higher education, military, etc, and so spend outrageous amounts on each and say “hey it’s government money don’t worry about the cost”. Student loan BS being only the most recent example.
                   
                  p.s. also, no I don’t want divided government forever. Eventually you do need some big changes to get through that will require either 1 party rule or some massive change in what’s going on in D.C.  However, divided government for 2 years, which hopefully the Republicans will use to fix some of their major problems, is fine with me.

                  • satyanar

                    Member
                    November 13, 2022 at 9:51 pm

                    Sure is nice to read a thoughtful non partisan post. Thanks.

                  • kayla.meyer_144

                    Member
                    November 14, 2022 at 6:28 am

                    Quote from BHE

                    Quote from Frumious

                    Republicans tend to recommend that when their chances of being in charge of all 3 branches is low. In other words a Federal govt that is incapable of doing anything other than military.

                    Actually not true. The Economist ran an article a few months ago listing a bunch of *bipartisan* things congress has passed during the Biden admin (the point of the article was to explain that the Biden admin had actually gotten quite a lot done, much of it bipartisan). I don’t have the link so can’t give the list, but I was surprised and impressed.

                     
                    This was less “divided” government as it was the Dems in charge of all 3 branches, although I was surprised that the Republicans did cross-over. Their stance declared the month before Obama was sworn into office, December 2008, Republicans swore to do nothing, & I mean nothing that would advance anything the Dems tried to do, regardless. Just looking at their antics about the ACA underlines that fact. Or the fact that we were in a Great Recession & they opposed everything the Democrats tried to do to address the recession.

                    Quote from BHE

                    Look, if I had to have 1 party in charge right now it would certainly be the Democrats. The Republicans need to fix some serious issues. But I’m pretty annoyed by the spending habits of the Democrats lately (student loan thing without actually addressing the cost problem is only 1 example)– and I say that as someone who would both vote for and strongly support us adopting the social safety net and tax practices of a typical northern European country.

                    I feel it necessary to point out that Republicans never address the cost of tax cuts ([link=https://www.forbes.com/sites/christianweller/2020/01/29/trumps-wasteful-tax-cuts-lead-to-continued-trillion-dollar-deficits-in-expanding-economy/?sh=be982666c437]https://www.forbes.com/sites/christianweller/2020/01/29/trumps-wasteful-tax-cuts-lead-to-continued-trillion-dollar-deficits-in-expanding-economy/[/link])
                    that cost billions to over $1 trillion of lost revenue. This is a continuation of the myth of Supply Side, cutting taxes will stimulate growth & increase government revenue. We also have VP Cheney’s declaration, “Reagan proved, deficits don’t matter” as Republicans borrowed money from China & elsewhere to pay for Afghanistan and Iraqi wars.
                     
                    Actually the strategy since Reagan by the GOP has been to increase deficits in order to “Starve the Beast” & defund the government & hopefully in their eyes, defund social spending by arguing there “was no money” to do anything.
                     
                    Republicans never cut spending, it’s against their plan.
                     

                    Quote from BHE

                    Northern Europe spends a lot, but they also care about the cost and get value for the tax money they take from their citizens. We have fallen victim to lobbyists for healthcare, higher education, military, etc, and so spend outrageous amounts on each and say “hey it’s government money don’t worry about the cost”. Student loan BS being only the most recent example.

                     
                    I agree, Europe is more capable in doing things America says it is impossible to do. But you need Republicans to sign on to do things. Yes, surprisingly they did with Biden’s “anti-inflation” legislation but that did not last as we’ve seen.
                     
                    You need 2 cooperating parties or single control by Democrats to get those things done you list above.
                     
                    Before Reagan proved that deficits don’t matter, we were paying down our national debt. 
                     
                    We need to get money out of politics. But 2 problems, 1st starting with the Supremes who ruled that money is a 1st Amendment expression; 2nd is that Republicans oppose reducing money in politics and voters have not exactly lined up with the Democrats’ proposals to reduce money in politics.
                     
                    Why not?

                    Quote from BHE

                    p.s. also, no I don’t want divided government forever. Eventually you do need some big changes to get through that will require either 1 party rule or some massive change in what’s going on in D.C.  However, divided government for 2 years, which hopefully the Republicans will use to fix some of their major problems, is fine with me.

                    Unless the Republicans have a change of mind, they are still the party of NO! A reputation they’ve proudly earned since Clinton.

                    • satyanar

                      Member
                      November 14, 2022 at 10:49 am

                      Agree dergon. Split ticket voting is a sign.
                       

                      Quote from dergon

                      The number of people who have strongly formed opinions about the debt ceiling, US foreign policy, gun rights, abortion etc ,etc *and* whose vote is also swinging back and forth between the parties has become [b]very[/b] small in the last decade. And if they have a high enough level of political engagement to be donating to parties, talking politics with their friends, posting on a forum page… they are very, very likely to have a clear party preference.

                      Edit — Maybe this will shift back.  There was more split-ticket voting this year than in prior cycles. Maybe that will hold. But I mostly think that was a unique outcome based on candidate quality in 2022. We’ll see.

                       
                      Thought provoking thanks. I think I am part of the shift.
                       
                      I rarely talked to friends about politics and never posted in forums before Trump.
                       
                       
                       
                       

            • satyanar

              Member
              November 13, 2022 at 3:09 pm

              Quote from Frumious

              What do independents actually stand for?

               
              In my mind we are doing our best to find moderation. Decreasing polarization is extremely important in achieving a functional government.
               
               

              • btomba_77

                Member
                November 14, 2022 at 3:25 am

                Quote from Thread Killer

                Quote from Frumious

                What do independents actually stand for?

                In my mind we are doing our best to find moderation. Decreasing polarization is extremely important in achieving a functional government.

                 
                 
                For the most part “Independent”  “moderate”
                 
                Something like 85% of people who self-identify as independent actually have a defined party preference and clearly lean right or left. And that party preference remains stable over time.
                 
                They mostly don’t like the 2 American political parties for whatever reason and have chosen to dis-identify themselves from the party for whom they still mostly vote anyway.
                 
                The bulk of the few remaining true middle swing voters are low engagement voters who don’t like politics, don’t like thinking about policy ,etc.  These are the people who are up for grabs.  The kind of people who are still undecided about Trump or Clinton on Oct 25th, 2016.
                 
                 The more politically engaged an independent voter gets, the more likely they are to have a lean.
                 
                The number of people who have strongly formed opinions about the debt ceiling, US foreign policy, gun rights, abortion etc ,etc *and* whose vote is also swinging back and forth between the parties has become [b]very[/b] small in the last decade. And if they have a high enough level of political engagement to be donating to parties, talking politics with their friends, posting on a forum page… they are very, very likely to have a clear party preference.
                 
                 
                 
                 
                Edit — Maybe this will shift back.  There was more split-ticket voting this year than in prior cycles. Maybe that will hold. But I mostly think that was a unique outcome based on candidate quality in 2022. We’ll see.
                 

                • kayla.meyer_144

                  Member
                  November 14, 2022 at 5:37 am

                  Quote from dergon

                  For the most part “Independent”  “moderate”  
                     
                  Something like 85% of people who self-identify as independent actually have a defined party preference and clearly lean right or left. And that party preference remains stable over time.  
                     
                  They mostly don’t like the 2 American political parties for whatever reason and have chosen to dis-identify themselves from the party for whom they still mostly vote anyway. 

                  This is precisely both my observation & my personal experience as I posted. Everyone thinks they discovered distrust in government. I was once an Independent too. I did not trust Democrats, due to Vietnam or Republicans, also due to Vietnam, so never declared until I had enough of Republican running very hard to the right-wing reactionary extremist goalposts which finally reached the breaking point in 2016. Republicans have only confirmed my decision as the correct one as Republicans started fashioning themselves as the authoritarian anti-democratic party using race animus & personality worship.
                   
                  So I leaned more and more Democratic as I noted the GOPs Southern Strategy starting with Nixon then freely coasting downhill with Reagan and since.
                   
                  At least the Democrats have been trying to do something constructive; Republicans are trying to turn the clock back.
                   
                   

  • btomba_77

    Member
    January 10, 2023 at 10:15 am

    [link=https://www.cookpolitical.com/analysis/house/redistricting/end-redistricting-didnt-hurt-and-may-have-even-helped-house-democrats]https://www.cookpolitical…helped-house-democrats[/link]
    [link=https://www.cookpolitical.com/]Cook Political Repor[/link]t

    [h1]In the End, Redistricting Didnt Hurt (And May Have Even Helped) House Democrats[/h1]
    “Democrats won 14 seats they might not have won had the lines not changed, one more than the 13 Republican redistricting-attributable flips or holds.”

    ___________

    Important point here: Dems employed a high-risk/reward redistricting strategy. Had they not defied historical norms in November, they might have lost a lot of close calls like [link=https://twitter.com/hashtag/CO08?src=hashtag_click]#CO08[/link], [link=https://twitter.com/hashtag/NM02?src=hashtag_click]#NM02[/link], [link=https://twitter.com/hashtag/NV03?src=hashtag_click]#NV03[/link], [link=https://twitter.com/hashtag/NV04?src=hashtag_click]#NV04[/link], [link=https://twitter.com/hashtag/OR06?src=hashtag_click]#OR06[/link], etc. – rendering a more GOP-friendly redistricting verdict.
     

    • satyanar

      Member
      January 10, 2023 at 11:52 am

      Until the maps are actually fair the Dems should play the same game the Reps do. Good for them for not stooping so low.

      • btomba_77

        Member
        March 30, 2023 at 10:06 am

        [b]New York Democrats Revive Redistricting Case[/b][/h1]  
         
        The battle for control of Congress next year is already being waged in a New York appellate court where Democrats are seeking to revive a case challenging the redrawing of state congressional boundaries after 11 New York Republicans won elections last year helping secure their partys narrow majority in the House, the [link=https://www.timesunion.com/state/article/democrats-revive-ny-redistricting-case-battle-17866301.php]Albany Times Union[/link] reports.
         
        The lawsuit seeks to compel the state Independent Redistricting Commission to submit a new map to the Legislature that would reshape New Yorks congressional boundaries after a series of court rulings scrapped the gerrymandered districts that were created by state Democratic lawmakers. The boundaries were subsequently redrawn by a court prior to last years elections, and those maps are set to remain in place for the next decade.

         

  • btomba_77

    Member
    April 8, 2023 at 10:06 am

    [h1] [link=https://www.politico.com/news/2023/04/07/james-hochul-ny-redistricting-00091082]Politico[/link] [/h1]
    New York Attorney General Tish James and Gov. Kathy Hochul submitted a court brief Friday in support of having new district lines drawn for the U.S. House after the current ones crafted by a judge last year fueled Republican gains.
    The move by the two statewide Democratic leaders helps to reignite the fight over whether the current map that benefited Republicans on Long Island and the Hudson Valley should be redrawn by the states Independent Redistricting Commission ahead of the 2024 elections.
     

    • btomba_77

      Member
      August 25, 2023 at 8:34 am

       [link=https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2023/08/24/judge-raises-questions-he-weighs-arguments-over-desantis-redistricting-map/]Tampa Bay Times

      [/link]
      [h1]Judge raises questions as he weighs arguments over DeSantis redistricting map[/h1] The issue will likely wind up before the Florida Supreme Court.

      TALLAHASSEE A Florida judge signaled skepticism Thursday that he could uphold Gov. [link=https://www.tampabay.com/topics/ron-desantis/]Ron DeSantis[/link] congressional districts after Floridas lawyers admitted the districts violate the state constitution.
      ……………..

      [link=https://www.politico.com/news/2023/08/24/florida-judge-skeptical-of-arguments-to-keep-desantis-map-00112885]https://www.politico.com/…-desantis-map-00112885[/link]

      The back-and-forth reflected the twisted path that led to the courtroom confrontation. Republican legislators initially had proposed keeping intact Lawsons seat but then under pressure from the governor  [link=https://www.politico.com/news/2022/03/04/desantis-florida-congressional-maps-00014213]offered to nix the seat in exchange for a Jacksonville-based seat that still contained a substantial number of minority voters[/link]. They called the governors arguments against retaining the seat a novel legal theory.
      But then, lawmakers retreated from that position [link=https://www.politico.com/news/2022/03/29/florida-redistricting-map-special-session-desantis-00021424]after DeSantis vetoed that map[/link] and instead approved one drawn up by the governors office.
      Floridas Fair Districts provision, approved in 2010, states that congressional districts cannot be drawn in a way that would diminish minority voters ability to elect someone of their choice. Lawyers for the Legislature and the Secretary of State Cord Byrd contended on Thursday that legislators couldnt follow the non-diminishment requirement without running afoul of the U.S. Constitution, which has more authority over state law.

      [/QUOTE]
       

      • btomba_77

        Member
        September 3, 2023 at 4:06 am

        [h1][b]Judge Throws Out DeSantis-Backed Florida Congressional Map[/b][/h1]  
         
        A judge in Florida ruled in favor of civil rights groups on Saturday, throwing out a congressional district map that Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis had backed and deeming it unconstitutional, [link=https://themessenger.com/politics/florida-redistricting-judge-throws-out-desantis-backed-congressional-map]The Messenger[/link] reports.
         
        The ruling, which is likely to be appealed, delivered another redistricting win for Democrats in the Southeast after a series of cases in the region have given the party more opportunities to flip Republican-controlled House seats ahead of what will be a contentious fight for control of the legislative chamber next year.
         

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