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President Elect Donald Trump?
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I think it was “clean” coal, that was the unicorn.
Closing Guantanamo isn’t such a rainbow fart. Red America afraid of terrorists and terrorists in our prisons? We seem to have done OK with the terrorists we’ve tried & imprisoned in Liberal New York. And remember, Red America never got attacked.
The “bi-partisan” was always a joke that Obama never understood as the GOP swore an oath of total war and spit on him. Obama was wrong, we are not all Americans, at least not “real Americans” as Sarah and her followers constantly remind and reminded us. The politics of resentment, the anti-rainbow.
Happy Thanksgiving anyway. Things will get worse before long spreading joy and good cheer.-
hustling $ 124 christmas ornament and our tax dollars will pay Trump tower 1 mill per month for secret service protection
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[url=http://www.cbsnews.com/news/jerry-falwell-jr-offered-secretary-of-education-he-says/]Jerry Falwell Jr turned down Trump offer to be Secretary of Education[/url]
Panderriffic. -
Quote from sentinel lymph node
hustling $ 124 christmas ornament and our tax dollars will pay Trump tower 1 mill per month for secret service protection
Well at least he is not charging the occassional vacations to Hawaii to the American taxpayer like The Evil Obama did!
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Or playing golf OMG
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Quote from sentinel lymph node
hustling $ 124 christmas ornament and our tax dollars will pay Trump tower 1 mill per month for secret service protection
The secret service pays rent to the Clintons and Carters. They have to. Don’t want the secret service to pay rent, change the regulation that requires them to do so.
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the big whiny baby is claiming voter fraud because he lot big time the popular vote–and #notmyPresident lives on along with#illegitimatePresident–karma rips back at the king of birther
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saw the movie Nocturnal animals here in LA,cali and when the lead character Amy Adams tells her mother in the move that she does not want to be like her -a racist narrow minded conservative-there was a collective moment of hate in the audience against the mother and a collective feel of grief concerning the election outcome with one saying still with her
–we Snowflakes are getting into formation–we will never quit on justice-
Trump’s bizness –he needs to divest–look at India-hello Nicki
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we will have to watch to see if Utec gets a large military contract in the future–follow the money for the next 4 years
the snake know as Bernie imho needs to devote energy to release his finance report
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twitter madness continues on in his mind the start date of his Trump U cases and the 25 mill settlement he had to make
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now Chaffetz–get ready to address Trump bizness with hearings–US embargo in 1998
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why does Trump protest so much the recount–he won so why waste time on twitter—not kosher but NC gov needs to concede -he got a big diss in court–your party is dismissing u
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he lost the popular vote–why be so thin skinned if someone says u are an illegitimate winner when u played with the birther nonsense for years–what’s good for the goose–don’t be a hypocrite
–if u win the demand a recount-
wonder if Utech–gets large military deal cause will it be used to get that oil in the middle east or could they sue for blackmail if they are aggressively pushed–per romney corporations are people too
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follow-the money
who is staying in Trump’s DC hotel
why has Chaffetz not announced an investigation into Trump-
That’s gonna be awkward.
[link=http://www.heritage.org/research/commentary/2009/04/anti-trade-agenda-a-real-economy-killer]http://www.heritage.org/r…-a-real-economy-killer[/link]-
oh Trump –Carrier announce reduction in employment in Dewitt NY, Jan 2016—what are u going to do for them
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we need keith olberman back on MsNBC to redo his bush thing with Trump-one German against another
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oh President elect–Rexnord announces leaving Indy for Mexico–moving jobs to Mexico–now with Carrier every company will look for candy
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our country is a laughing joke with Trump by other countries–they love to see how Romney and others claim Trump is competent but before said worst—we have lost stature because many felt romney and other wher e on point
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I think we should just outsource the entire treasury department to Goldman Sachs.
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Quote from fw
I think we should just outsource the entire treasury department to Goldman Sachs.
Agreed. To be administered by the Rotchschild’s.
/what could possibly go wrong?-
Economy grew at 3.2% last quarter with wage growth and 4.9% unemployment
We really need Trump to fix things
Maybe things weren’t as bad as we were constantly being told-
Quote from kpack123
Economy grew at 3.2% last quarter with wage growth and 4.9% unemployment
We really need Trump to fix things
Maybe things weren’t as bad as we were constantly being told
The numbers are kind of meaningless.
We live in a country of two Americas.
People like us are doing great; I personally have done fantastic under Obama.
People like my handyman that does work on my office and at home? He is worse off. By a large margin. His income is stagnant, his costs are up, his taxes are up.
People like us have stock accounts with Dow surging; people like him can’t pay to get their kids into college.
That is the reality. The country, overall, is doing ok. But subsets are really struggling.-
That’s pretty much it, there are two economies. There’s such a vast difference between the top and bottom. Trump tapped into that.
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Yes Trumped tapped into that………………. But will he make it better for those who are struggling by cutting taxes for guys like me?
Actually the most important point of the new data is the Wage Growth, that is essentially what was the main issue with the Obama economy.
Seems like now that may be heading up………………. Will Tax cuts for the Wealthy and Increasing interest rates help or hurt?
I guess we find out
But the 2 Americas are largely a byproduct of Education……………… Those with college degrees are doing OK
Those without are angry because they no longer have those nice paying union jobs their Fathers and Grand fathers had
Im not seeing Trump fixing that by bringing back coal jobs (especially considering most power plants are converting to Natural gas or other sources) and I don’t steel the Steel mills firing up in the near future since China is sitting on a 2 year world supply that they can dump on the market as they please.
I guess we just wait-
Quote from kpack123
But the 2 Americas are largely a byproduct of Education……………… Those with college degrees are doing OK
Those without are angry because they no longer have those nice paying union jobs their Fathers and Grand fathers had
Im not seeing Trump fixing that by bringing back coal jobs (especially considering most power plants are converting to Natural gas or other sources) and I don’t steel the Steel mills firing up in the near future since China is sitting on a 2 year world supply that they can dump on the market as they please.
I guess we just wait
I’d agree but not everyone is cut out for college so if you don’t go into some other skilled labor what do you do? In Ohio those minimum wage is $8.10, my employer actually just came out and bumped every starting position to $12. I think the difference is minimum wages haven’t really kept up, maybe there should be a minimum living wage for people.
I don’t see coal necessarily coming back either but Trump can keep that low quality garbage steel out of the US.-
Quote from DICOM_Dan
Quote from kpack123
But the 2 Americas are largely a byproduct of Education……………… Those with college degrees are doing OK
Those without are angry because they no longer have those nice paying union jobs their Fathers and Grand fathers had
Im not seeing Trump fixing that by bringing back coal jobs (especially considering most power plants are converting to Natural gas or other sources) and I don’t steel the Steel mills firing up in the near future since China is sitting on a 2 year world supply that they can dump on the market as they please.
I guess we just wait
[b][i]I’d agree but not everyone is cut out for college[/i][/b] so if you don’t go into some other skilled labor what do you do? In Ohio those minimum wage is $8.10, my employer actually just came out and bumped every starting position to $12. I think the difference is minimum wages haven’t really kept up, maybe there should be a minimum living wage for people.
I don’t see coal necessarily coming back either but Trump can keep that low quality garbage steel out of the US.
Totally agree, Dan. What we need to do is change our education system, and model it more after what the Germans do. I spent almost 3 weeks there last year, and was amazed at certain sects of their society. They realize that not everyone goes to college, or wants to…so they put a very real emphasis on trade and technical schools. Over here, the folks that want to be welders, mechanics, carpenters have somewhat of a stigma attached to them. Not over there. They value the folks that eschew formal college for technical training, and realize that they are a super valuable part of their economic system. Until we treat all people pursuing their particular dream of higher education, be it medicine, engineering, welding, mechanicry or carpentry I don’t see it changing.-
Quote from stir22
Totally agree, Dan. What we need to do is change our education system, and model it more after what the Germans do. I spent almost 3 weeks there last year, and was amazed at certain sects of their society. They realize that not everyone goes to college, or wants to…so they put a very real emphasis on trade and technical schools. Over here, the folks that want to be welders, mechanics, carpenters have somewhat of a stigma attached to them. Not over there. They value the folks that eschew formal college for technical training, and realize that they are a super valuable part of their economic system. Until we treat all people pursuing their particular dream of higher education, be it medicine, engineering, welding, mechanicry or carpentry I don’t see it changing.
Yes and no. Germany has its ‘rust belt’ areas just like the US. The end of mining and the exodus of lower value manufacturing from germany happened 20 years earlier and there has been outmigration and some modest recovery in the decades since. -
Quote from fw
Quote from stir22
Totally agree, Dan. What we need to do is change our education system, and model it more after what the Germans do. I spent almost 3 weeks there last year, and was amazed at certain sects of their society. They realize that not everyone goes to college, or wants to…so they put a very real emphasis on trade and technical schools. Over here, the folks that want to be welders, mechanics, carpenters have somewhat of a stigma attached to them. Not over there. They value the folks that eschew formal college for technical training, and realize that they are a super valuable part of their economic system. Until we treat all people pursuing their particular dream of higher education, be it medicine, engineering, welding, mechanicry or carpentry I don’t see it changing.
Yes and no. Germany has its ‘rust belt’ areas just like the US. The end of mining and the exodus of lower value manufacturing from germany happened 20 years earlier and there has been outmigration and some modest recovery in the decades since.
Germany is far from perfect.
But for 3 decades, American education has been about prioritizing ‘going to college’. That was actually a major platform for many educators in the 70s and 80s.
That was a major mistake.
The US should learn what Germany does right: put some kids on vocational tracks. Make high schools much more open to such education. Promote 2 year post secondary education to educate these kids in those fields.
Putting kids on various tracks earlier makes a lot of sense, and can elevate blue collar jobs through out the economy.
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Quote from MISTRAD
Quote from kpack123
Economy grew at 3.2% last quarter with wage growth and 4.9% unemployment
We really need Trump to fix things
Maybe things weren’t as bad as we were constantly being told
The numbers are kind of meaningless.
We live in a country of two Americas.
People like us are doing great; I personally have done fantastic under Obama.
People like my handyman that does work on my office and at home? He is worse off. By a large margin. His income is stagnant, his costs are up, his taxes are up.
People like us have stock accounts with Dow surging; people like him can’t pay to get their kids into college.
That is the reality. The country, overall, is doing ok. But subsets are really struggling.
That is exactly true, the inequality thing. Upper income groups have been and are doing much better and the middle and lower income groups are stagnant at best. this has been the dynamic since the 1980’s through the present as jobs were and are shipped to countries with lower labor costs and no unions as Wall Street kept telling American workers they were overpaid. Lowering the taxes on these middle and lower income groups as a compensation can only do so much & doesn’t substitute for actual living wages. The tipping point was the great recession as the middle and lower income groups had no cushion when the bottom fell out.
I just find it ironic that Republicans have been rewarded by these people who suffered the most for doing their Republican best to oppose any solutions to improve the economy. Schadenfreude is what they deserve but it will hurt many of us in the long run as we all get taken down the garden path.
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So The Donald will improve workers’ lives by lowering their wages? That wages are too high has been the opinion of the affluent and Wall Street for decades now.
[link=http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-wages-too-high-2015-11]http://www.businessinside…wages-too-high-2015-11[/link]In his opening statement at Tuesday night’s Republican debate on Fox Business, presidential hopeful Donald Trump said he would not raise the minimum wage and that wages were “too high.”
Trump made his comments in response to a question about whether he had sympathy for protesters who wanted to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour. Tuesday night’s debate was focused on the economy.
“We are a country that is being beaten on every front economically, militarily,” Trump said. “Taxes too high, wages too high, we’re not going to be able to compete against the world … People have to go out, they have to work really hard, and they have to get into that upper stratum.”
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good quote from Sherrod Brown today. Something like “he’s not draining the swamp, he’s stocking it with alligators”
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Miami Herald-court ruling that Trump must pay 300,000 in attorney fees;-the paint shop had sued for 34,000
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IvankA Trump hubby sued per TMZ
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Congress has to hold hearings on Trump’s DC hotel–he will be violating the constitution
the GOP always call people anti-american–they have to honor the constitution -
The Gift protocol:-all gifts given to the President, Vice President, Secretary of state and spouses from foreign governments are handled by the gift unit in the office of the Protocol( State Department)
This should include Trump’s kids if they keep in charge of the bizness -
all those gifts Condi got from Qadhafi were to be given to the US government
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Germany does look out for its future and its people but here in America that’s akin to Socialism. And working with ones hands and other blue-collar jobs is not exactly enshrined in American society where paying cheaper is better is the goal.
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I actually think the education system has changed quote a bit since I’ve been out of school. I graduated in 98 from high school and it was like Math class, science class, biology, physics, chemistry, religion, gym, study hall, social studies. Now my niece and nephew are in high school and middle school. They get issued a Mac book. They get to take electives like engineering, robotics, carpentry, music, programming. It’s come a long way from typing class. They’re definitely getting exposure to valuable learning/career tracks.
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This sounded like it was a hoot. Shouting match between Clinton team and Trump team.
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/shouting-match-erupts-between-clinton-and-trump-aides/2016/12/01/7ac4398e-b7ea-11e6-b8df-600bd9d38a02_story.html?wpisrc=al_alert-COMBO-politics%252Bnation]https://www.washingtonpos…BO-politics%252Bnation[/link]
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S.E. Cupp with a great quote about the Romney-Trump public courtship as [url=http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/01/opinions/trump-romney-romance-setup-cupp/index.html]one big set-up[/url]
“The non-cynical answer would be that Trump is seriously considering Romney and wants to signal publicly that he’s leaning in his direction while calming the detractors who think they couldn’t possibly get along.
But I’m not buying it. The whole thing reeks of a Stephen King prom night setup that ends with Trump dumping a bucket of pig’s blood onto Romney’s head.”
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Quote from dergon
S.E. Cupp with a great quote about the Romney-Trump public courtship as [link=http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/01/opinions/trump-romney-romance-setup-cupp/index.html]one big set-up[/link]
“The non-cynical answer would be that Trump is seriously considering Romney and wants to signal publicly that he’s leaning in his direction while calming the detractors who think they couldn’t possibly get along.
But I’m not buying it. The whole thing reeks of a Stephen King prom night setup that ends with Trump dumping a bucket of pig’s blood onto Romney’s head.”
Hope not, Mittens seems more level-headed than someone like Rudi
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I thought I heard David Petraeus was being considered for Sec of State.
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My kids were being introduced to robotics in elementary school. Of course, STEM is still what most parents push for their kids to excel in, but education in the US has changed and evolved a lot since when I was in school for sure.
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General Mattis for Sec Def. I like it but he will need an exemption to be confirmed. From what I’ve read he’s a stand up Marine and respected by men in his command.
I believe this is him represented in the HBO show Generation Kill.
[link]https://youtu.be/fTXzcILPPp8[/link]
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Quote from hey
I thought I heard David Petraeus was being considered for Sec of State.
Considering that he was convicted of exactly the charge that Hillary should have been convicted of, this would be pretty rich.-
Quote from fw
Quote from hey
I thought I heard David Petraeus was being considered for Sec of State.
Considering that he was convicted of exactly the charge that Hillary should have been convicted of, this would be pretty rich.
Just illustrates how squishy the whole topic is in the 1st place & the caressness of those making flying accusations. There is no black and white in spite of partisans saying so, it is gray.
So Hillary deserves to be hung in the public square or at least imprisoned before a trial for squishy accusations about supposed secrets not being exposed but a possibility of being exposed, those so-called secrets not being easily defined or agreed upon by separate agencies vs an actual person convicted of exposing actual secrets being considered for a Cabinet position by the person making the accusations against Hillary.
Rich indeed.-
Quote from Frumious
Just illustrates how squishy the whole topic is in the 1st place & the caressness of those making flying accusations. There is no black and white in spite of partisans saying so, it is gray.
Nothing squishy about it. There are federal laws about records, and if you violate them, you can get prosecuted. Every year, soldiers, government contractrors and civilian employees get prosecuted for things like taking a work laptop home or downloading some emails onto a thumbdrive. Sandy Berger removed classified documents from the library of congress, he paid a 50k fine and got probation. David Petraeus mishandled classified information, paid a 100k fine and got probation.
No Hillary shouldn’t have gone to jail. She should have received the same consequences any other federal employee or soldier would have been subject to. Typically a fine and probation. That type of conviction should disqualify Petraeus from a a cabinet position and it certainly disqualified Hillary from the presidency.-
The 1st issue is still that you and Dan have found her guilty before any evidence or trial.
The 2nd issue is that Patraeus was convicted & is being considered for a Cabinet position. Forget Hillary, yes fw, many have been convicted for less and/or lost their careers, fined and actually imprisoned. So the question is did they deserve the treatment or is the application applied non-uniformly, meaning 2 prosecutors will look at the same evidence very differently, one prosecuting the other not and the accused being treated based on who they are, who they know, their knowledge of fighting the accusations including threatening to open more secrets in their defense. Many low-level accused have no resources to do that as Patraeus did.-
Quote from Frumious
The 1st issue is still that you and Dan have found her guilty before any evidence or trial.
Well, the FBIs report is out there, at least the parts that didn’t contain classified information and had to be redacted. The FBI director stated that the law was violated but that he did not expect the prosecutor would file charges and as such he didn’t recommend them. A bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy and a departure from how the relationship between police and prosecutors works in a normal case.
The 2nd issue is that Patraeus was convicted & is being considered for a Cabinet position. Forget Hillary, yes fw, many have been convicted for less and/or lost their careers, fined and actually imprisoned. So the question is did they deserve the treatment or is the application applied non-uniformly, meaning 2 prosecutors will look at the same evidence very differently, one prosecuting the other not and the accused being treated based on who they are, who they know, their knowledge of fighting the accusations including threatening to open more secrets in their defense. Many low-level accused have no resources to do that as Patraeus did.
I wish a career prosecutor at the US attorneys office would have received the sealed FBI investigative report and arrived at a decision whether to prosecute her. That’s how it normally works, that’s how it worked for Petraeus. While he was politically connected, apparently he wasn’t connected enough.
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With Petraeus they can also re-open Benghazi from the CIA side…so there is that advantage too
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he was connected enough to have holder, etc let him end with a misdemeanor
can see him call up Paula–get rid of the rad hubby –we are back in bizness-u can write a new book on me and be my assistantQuote from fw
Quote from Frumious
The 1st issue is still that you and Dan have found her guilty before any evidence or trial.
Well, the FBIs report is out there, at least the parts that didn’t contain classified information and had to be redacted. The FBI director stated that the law was violated but that he did not expect the prosecutor would file charges and as such he didn’t recommend them. A bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy and a departure from how the relationship between police and prosecutors works in a normal case.
The 2nd issue is that Patraeus was convicted & is being considered for a Cabinet position. Forget Hillary, yes fw, many have been convicted for less and/or lost their careers, fined and actually imprisoned. So the question is did they deserve the treatment or is the application applied non-uniformly, meaning 2 prosecutors will look at the same evidence very differently, one prosecuting the other not and the accused being treated based on who they are, who they know, their knowledge of fighting the accusations including threatening to open more secrets in their defense. Many low-level accused have no resources to do that as Patraeus did.
I wish a career prosecutor at the US attorneys office would have received the sealed FBI investigative report and arrived at a decision whether to prosecute her. That’s how it normally works, that’s how it worked for Petraeus. While he was politically connected, apparently he wasn’t connected enough.
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Slightly different issue trying to conflate Hillary’s accused mishandling with Patraeus’s conviction. Patraeus was actually convicted of giving classified material to someone with no security clearance. There was no, zero discussion after the fact of questioning whether the material was really classified and there was no finding that she did actually share classified material with someone with no security clearance.
Apples and oranges & inventive rationalizing. -
Quote from Frumious
Slightly different issue trying to conflate Hillary’s accused mishandling with Patraeus’s conviction. Patraeus was actually convicted of giving classified material to someone with no security clearance. There was no, zero discussion after the fact of questioning whether the material was really classified and there was no finding that she did actually share classified material with someone with no security clearance.
Apples and oranges & inventive rationalizing.
I will never understand how rational thinking human beings still say things like “accused of mishandling” when the director of the FBI basically laid out an indictment on her carelessness. There’s proof of what she did, it’s not an accusation. Not punishing her is a different story. You might as well try and argue that 2 + 2 = 17.
I think that’s largely why we have a president Trump thread. Hillary is totally un-relateable. She does something that would get everyone else fired but somehow she was still presidential. Like all the sudden she’s randomly popping up in grocery stores, and nature walks. Like she’s bought groceries in the last 30 years.
Mind you, I’m not really a Trump fan. -
Comey’s behavior–?–one of the reason some say we now have an illegitimate President
Quote from DICOM_Dan
Quote from Frumious
Slightly different issue trying to conflate Hillary’s accused mishandling with Patraeus’s conviction. Patraeus was actually convicted of giving classified material to someone with no security clearance. There was no, zero discussion after the fact of questioning whether the material was really classified and there was no finding that she did actually share classified material with someone with no security clearance.
Apples and oranges & inventive rationalizing.
I will never understand how rational thinking human beings still say things like “accused of mishandling” when the director of the FBI basically laid out an indictment on her carelessness. There’s proof of what she did, it’s not an accusation. Not punishing her is a different story. You might as well try and argue that 2 + 2 = 17.
I think that’s largely why we have a president Trump thread. Hillary is totally un-relateable. She does something that would get everyone else fired but somehow she was still presidential. Like all the sudden she’s randomly popping up in grocery stores, and nature walks. Like she’s bought groceries in the last 30 years.
Mind you, I’m not really a Trump fan.
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
I will never understand how rational thinking human beings still say things like “accused of mishandling” when the director of the FBI basically laid out an indictment on her carelessness. There’s proof of what she did, it’s not an accusation. Not punishing her is a different story. You might as well try and argue that 2 + 2 = 17.
I think that’s largely why we have a president Trump thread. Hillary is totally un-relateable. She does something that would get everyone else fired but somehow she was still presidential. Like all the sudden she’s randomly popping up in grocery stores, and nature walks. Like she’s bought groceries in the last 30 years.
Mind you, I’m not really a Trump fan.
“Indictment: An indictment, in the common law system, is a formal accusation that a person has committed a crime
Law A written statement charging a party with the commission of a crime or other offense, drawn up by a prosecuting attorney and found and presented by a grand jury.”
An “indictment” is a right-wing fiction. There was no indictment. There was an investigation, there was criticism, there was a statement by Comey. There was no indictment.
You don’t have to like her & it is obvious you don’t. However, dislike, no matter how intense, even hatred, especially hatred, is never a good enough reason to indict anyone of a crime.
The FBI concluded she committed no crime and recommended no indictment.
[link=https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/statement-by-fbi-director-james-b-comey-on-the-investigation-of-secretary-hillary-clinton2019s-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system]https://www.fbi.gov/news/…personal-e-mail-system[/link]
Although we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.
For example, seven e-mail chains concern matters that were classified at the Top Secret/Special Access Program level when they were sent and received. These chains involved Secretary Clinton both sending e-mails about those matters and receiving e-mails from others about the same matters. There is evidence to support a conclusion that any reasonable person in Secretary Clintons position, or in the position of those government employees with whom she was corresponding about these matters, should have known that an unclassified system was no place for that conversation.
Although there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case.
In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.
As a result, although the Department of Justice makes final decisions on matters like this, we are expressing to Justice our view that no charges are appropriate in this case.
I know there will be intense public debate in the wake of this recommendation, as there was throughout this investigation. What I can assure the American people is that this investigation was done competently, honestly, and independently. No outside influence of any kind was brought to bear.
As for this thread being about Trump and these couple of posts being about Hillary, they emanated from the ironic fact, pointed out by fw & agreed with by me, of Patraeus’s consideration for a Cabinet position while not only actually indicted of but actually convicted of mishandling classified information & actually passing it to a person who had no security clearance.
Now that’s irony that specifically points out the capriciousness of life and people’s prejudices.
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Quote from Frumious
“Indictment: An indictment, in the common law system, is a formal accusation that a person has committed a crime
Law A written statement charging a party with the commission of a crime or other offense, drawn up by a prosecuting attorney and found and presented by a grand jury.”An “indictment” is a right-wing fiction. There was no indictment. There was an investigation, there was criticism, there was a statement by Comey. There was no indictment.
You don’t have to like her & it is obvious you don’t. However, dislike, no matter how intense, even hatred, especially hatred, is never a good enough reason to indict anyone of a crime.
………………..
As for this thread being about Trump and these couple of posts being about Hillary, they emanated from the ironic fact, pointed out by fw & agreed with by me, of Patraeus’s consideration for a Cabinet position while not only actually indicted of but actually convicted of mishandling classified information & actually passing it to a person who had no security clearance.Now that’s irony that specifically points out the capriciousness of life and people’s prejudices.
No indictment in the legal meaning but indictment in the sense of doing a bad thing. I think that it is legit to say he laid out and indictment on her behavior. I don’t feel like I’ve given either HRC or Trump any love. Simply pointing out a way that I feel Hillary delivered Trump. I also said Petraues shouldn’t get the cabinet spot. My prejudice is against the terrible candidates we had run from POTUS. I’m not with her, and I’m not a big fan of him.
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meanwhile Russia is accusing Ukraine of hurting Trump==oh the dumb naive Trump voters–pathetic
and Trump on day one of his presidency will be violating the lease of the DC hotel owned by the US government which belongs to us as he sues to get the tax payment reduce–he calling everyone a sucker and mocks us that we let the snake in -
the ? idiot -elect has call with Taiwan’s President–China probably will be like ok lets call up our buddy in North Korea to teach this novice a lesson
wonder if this is to help his China bizness–lean on them like I am talking to this country( oh I might get a Trump tower in Taiwan)–very dangerous folks
novice with Pakistan and philippines–allies won’t stick around if they can’t trust us -
Quote from DICOM_Dan
No indictment in the legal meaning but indictment in the sense of doing a bad thing. I think that it is legit to say he laid out and indictment on her behavior. I don’t feel like I’ve given either HRC or Trump any love. Simply pointing out a way that I feel Hillary delivered Trump. I also said Petraues shouldn’t get the cabinet spot. My prejudice is against the terrible candidates we had run from POTUS. I’m not with her, and I’m not a big fan of him.
The email issue is still small ball. It’s mostly a manufactured issue.
Welcome to the future, the Trump Era where facts don’t get in the way. The only thing is who believes, not what the facts are.
When will Alex Jones get a Cabinet position? Maybe a new position made for his talents?
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/the-post-truth-world-of-the-trump-administration-is-scarier-than-you-think/2016/12/02/ebda952a-b897-11e6-b994-f45a208f7a73_story.html]https://www.washingtonpos…45a208f7a73_story.html[/link]
You may think you are prepared for a post-truth world, in which political appeals to emotion count for more than statements of verifiable fact.
But now its time to cross another bridge into a world without facts. Or, more precisely, where facts do not matter a whit.
On live radio Wednesday morning, Scottie Nell Hughes sounded breezy as she drove a stake into the heart of knowable reality:
Theres no such thing, unfortunately, anymore, of facts, she declared on The Diane Rehm Show on Wednesday.
What matters now, Hughes argued, is not whether his fraud claim is true. No, what matters is who believes it.
Mr. Trumps tweet, amongst a certain crowd, a large a large part of the population, are truth. When he says that millions of people illegally voted, he has some in his amongst him and his supporters, and people believe they have facts to back that up. Those that do not like Mr. Trump, they say that those are lies, and theres no facts to back it up.
There was more from the Harvard event. When CNNs Jake Tapper asked Trump senior adviser Kellyanne Conway about the same election-fraud claim discussed above specifically, whether disseminating misinformation was presidential it was clear that she and Hughes got the same memo.
[b]Hes the president-elect, so thats presidential behavior, Conway said, using mind-bending pseudo-logic, reminiscent of the Nixonian When the president does it, that means that its not illegal.[/b]It doesn’t get any clearer than that.
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Facts
[attachment=0]
[i]Im sorry, Jeannie, your answer was correct, but Kevin shouted his incorrect answer over yours, so he gets the points.[/i]
[i]
[/i] -
Kinda like “hands up don’t shoot”–lol
-Peace out -
NC Governor bites the dust and says he lost
Ben Carson do us a favor –reject being the black face and say no to HUD–u are unqualified -
will the Senate also question General P about his health like he did faint on camera or will they ask him about him being in charge of the CIA during Benghazi or the reported way he liked to have his water handed to him during his jog
Quote from Frumious
Quote from DICOM_Dan
I will never understand how rational thinking human beings still say things like “accused of mishandling” when the director of the FBI basically laid out an indictment on her carelessness. There’s proof of what she did, it’s not an accusation. Not punishing her is a different story. You might as well try and argue that 2 + 2 = 17.
I think that’s largely why we have a president Trump thread. Hillary is totally un-relateable. She does something that would get everyone else fired but somehow she was still presidential. Like all the sudden she’s randomly popping up in grocery stores, and nature walks. Like she’s bought groceries in the last 30 years.
Mind you, I’m not really a Trump fan.
“Indictment: An indictment, in the common law system, is a formal accusation that a person has committed a crime
Law A written statement charging a party with the commission of a crime or other offense, drawn up by a prosecuting attorney and found and presented by a grand jury.”An “indictment” is a right-wing fiction. There was no indictment. There was an investigation, there was criticism, there was a statement by Comey. There was no indictment.
You don’t have to like her & it is obvious you don’t. However, dislike, no matter how intense, even hatred, especially hatred, is never a good enough reason to indict anyone of a crime.
The FBI concluded she committed no crime and recommended no indictment.
[link=https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/statement-by-fbi-director-james-b-comey-on-the-investigation-of-secretary-hillary-clinton2019s-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system]https://www.fbi.gov/news/…personal-e-mail-system[/link]
Although we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.
For example, seven e-mail chains concern matters that were classified at the Top Secret/Special Access Program level when they were sent and received. These chains involved Secretary Clinton both sending e-mails about those matters and receiving e-mails from others about the same matters. There is evidence to support a conclusion that any reasonable person in Secretary Clintons position, or in the position of those government employees with whom she was corresponding about these matters, should have known that an unclassified system was no place for that conversation.
Although there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case.
In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.
As a result, although the Department of Justice makes final decisions on matters like this, we are expressing to Justice our view that no charges are appropriate in this case.
I know there will be intense public debate in the wake of this recommendation, as there was throughout this investigation. What I can assure the American people is that this investigation was done competently, honestly, and independently. No outside influence of any kind was brought to bear.
As for this thread being about Trump and these couple of posts being about Hillary, they emanated from the ironic fact, pointed out by fw & agreed with by me, of Patraeus’s consideration for a Cabinet position while not only actually indicted of but actually convicted of mishandling classified information & actually passing it to a person who had no security clearance.
Now that’s irony that specifically points out the capriciousness of life and people’s prejudices.
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Voter fraud preventing the Untermensch from voting, Clinton involvement in child sex slave operations operating out of a pizzeria, Benghazi & other false “factoids” are what keep the GOP alive. And the media knows where to make money, the point of “news” operations on the Right.
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I saw a funny headline somewhere that Ivanka and Jarrod are separating the business ties by moving to DC.
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
I saw a funny headline somewhere that Ivanka and Jarrod are separating the business ties by moving to DC.
sorta like separating the marriage ties (divorce) by moving into separate bedrooms
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This is an interesting tid bit. The numbers pointed out in the WaPo article sound more like Dergon’s walking around money than investments of a supposed Billionaire. Like Warren Buffett doesn’t own 1000 shares of Boeing, he’d buy the company.
“Trump reported owning between $50,000 and $100,000 of Boeing stock in the May filing.”
“The sell-off could help address conflict-of-interest worries about his stock portfolio, a sizable part of Trumps financial life that was worth roughly as much as $40 million as of December 2015, a May disclosure filing shows.”
“Trump said in a financial filing released in May 2015 that he owned between $500,000 and $1 million worth of stock in Energy Transfer Partners. By May 2016, when Trump updated his annual filing, the value of the holding had fallen to less than $50,000”
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/trump-sold-all-shares-in-companies-in-june-spokesman-says/2016/12/06/55419d44-bbcf-11e6-94ac-3d324840106c_story.html?utm_term=.adfcce2a6850]https://www.washingtonpos…utm_term=.adfcce2a6850[/link] -
I will believe the selloff when papers are released
on a side note–> Carrier union leader on Trump :-he got up there and lied his a$$ off
I can see the upcoming books that will be written with one titled -American LiarQuote from DICOM_Dan
This is an interesting tid bit. The numbers pointed out in the WaPo article sound more like Dergon’s walking around money than investments of a supposed Billionaire. Like Warren Buffett doesn’t own 1000 shares of Boeing, he’d buy the company.
“Trump reported owning between $50,000 and $100,000 of Boeing stock in the May filing.”
“The sell-off could help address conflict-of-interest worries about his stock portfolio, a sizable part of Trumps financial life that was worth roughly as much as $40 million as of December 2015, a May disclosure filing shows.”
“Trump said in a financial filing released in May 2015 that he owned between $500,000 and $1 million worth of stock in Energy Transfer Partners. By May 2016, when Trump updated his annual filing, the value of the holding had fallen to less than $50,000”
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/trump-sold-all-shares-in-companies-in-june-spokesman-says/2016/12/06/55419d44-bbcf-11e6-94ac-3d324840106c_story.html?utm_term=.adfcce2a6850]https://www.washingtonpos…utm_term=.adfcce2a6850[/link]
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Kathleen Parker, Republican columnist on Washington Post calling for 37 Republican electors to defect.
Wow!
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-electoral-college-should-be-unfaithful/2016/12/06/360f8f2c-bbfb-11e6-ac85-094a21c44abc_story.html]https://www.washingtonpos…94a21c44abc_story.html[/link]
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HRC ahead by 2.7 million votes
Quote from Frumious
Kathleen Parker, Republican columnist on Washington Post calling for 37 Republican electors to defect.
Wow!
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-electoral-college-should-be-unfaithful/2016/12/06/360f8f2c-bbfb-11e6-ac85-094a21c44abc_story.html]https://www.washingtonpos…94a21c44abc_story.html[/link]
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wonder if Kelly Ann Conway heard of Madeline Albright’s comment-special place in H#ll–wonder when her kids are older she will be able to explain her support for the p***Y grabber
Quote from DICOM_Dan
This sounded like it was a hoot. Shouting match between Clinton team and Trump team.
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/shouting-match-erupts-between-clinton-and-trump-aides/2016/12/01/7ac4398e-b7ea-11e6-b8df-600bd9d38a02_story.html?wpisrc=al_alert-COMBO-politics%252Bnation]https://www.washingtonpos…BO-politics%252Bnation[/link]
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DP just wasn’t connected enough to get the same special treatment as HRC. Although he got better treatment than other people who faced the UCMJ for leaking documents. I think it disqualifies him for a cabinet post. I’d like to see Romney but like Dergon says I think Trump might want him but also wants to embarrass him. I think I read something about Trump would want an apology. I don’t see Mitt doing that.
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She does something that would get everyone else fired but somehow she was still presidential.
Did you really write that with a straight face given the election of Trump? You conflate Clinton’s email practices (and btw use of private email is rampant in the govt…or do you believe yahoo’s servers are magically more secure and govt computers and servers have never been hacked) with all the garbage Trump has pulled over the years?
So here are the questions…will you recommend impeaching Trump the first time he deletes a tweet as President for violating the record retention rule? Should we ban all use of private email by federal employees? Should every email be printed and stored in a drawer like records prior to computers? What if the email is just an acknowledge of receipt of another email or simply says “ok”? Perhaps we should also record and transcribe every telephone conversation since they are a form of govt communication…or should e-mails which tend to replace oral communication be considered similar to a phone call? And if so why isn’t Clinton’s treatment of email any different than hanging up after a phone call or scratching a few words on a sticky note as a reminder?
Sorry I am just tired of this bogus email stuff-
Quote from Thor
Did you really write that with a straight face given the election of Trump? You conflate Clinton’s email practices (and btw use of private email is rampant in the govt…or do you believe yahoo’s servers are magically more secure and govt computers and servers have never been hacked)
On the whole, they are. The hillary server had initially no intrusion protection and was directly exposed to the internet. Only later, when the management was moved from some intern to a professional IT contractor, a firewall and intrusion protection were installed. Even then, IPS logs were only reviewed once a month to counteract the attempts on the system. That servers run by professional email providers have been hacked before are just anecdotes that don’t prove that they are not safe. Kind of like election fraud, right ?
So here are the questions…will you recommend impeaching Trump the first time he deletes a tweet as President for violating the record retention rule?
I suspect there will be someone in the whitehouse whose only job will be to create paper copies of each tweet he twitters.
Should we ban all use of private email by federal employees?
For business use yes. Most agencies already do (my brother in law wrote the electronic records retention and discovery policy for DOT).
Should every email be printed and stored in a drawer like records prior to computers?
Well, that’s what Hillary did when she was told to hand over the emails. Rather than giving them to State as electronic files, Cheryl Mills sat down and engaged in the ‘great email delete-o-rama’. What she deemed work related, she printed, the rest was deleted.
So no, they shouldn’t be printed. They should be electronically archived using a commercial e-discovery system like the ones every publicly traded company and every federal contractor has to use.
What if the email is just an acknowledge of receipt of another email or simply says “ok”?
Needs to be retained.
Perhaps we should also record and transcribe every telephone conversation since they are a form of govt communication…or should e-mails which tend to replace oral communication be considered similar to a phone call?
Apples are not oranges.
And if so why isn’t Clinton’s treatment of email any different than hanging up after a phone call or scratching a few words on a sticky note as a reminder?
That sticky note is a government record and subject to retention and open records laws.
Sorry I am just tired of this bogus email stuff
I know you are. It is at the root of why your girl lost. That can be hard to accept.-
Quote from fw
Sorry I am just tired of this bogus email stuff
I know you are. It is at the root of why your girl lost. That can be hard to accept.
thought root cause was that middle america is racist/sexist/xenophobic etc-(“white-lash against a changing country”)-
play devil’s advocate–tHE angry white last gasp??–kill the country if we are not the majority–lets bankrupt this country and leave the crumbs to the 47% —
lone white male juror hold out in SC–1 back juror in a 28% black district–we have not learned from America’s original sinQuote from jd4540
Quote from fw
Sorry I am just tired of this bogus email stuff
I know you are. It is at the root of why your girl lost. That can be hard to accept.
thought root cause was that middle america is racist/sexist/xenophobic etc-(“white-lash against a changing country”)
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Quote from fw
I know you are. It is at the root of why your girl lost.
Girl?
Criticism from a boy?
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Quote from jd4540
thought root cause was that middle america is racist/sexist/xenophobic etc-(“white-lash against a changing country”)
I forgot. It’s all racism.
Watching CNN on election night was a good reminder that the ‘fake news’ issue goes beyond some fringe websites. If the head of a political party is also an employee of the central news network, the totalitarian state has moved beyond what Goebbels could have ever imagined.
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Quote from fw
Quote from jd4540
thought root cause was that middle america is racist/sexist/xenophobic etc-(“white-lash against a changing country”)
I forgot. It’s all racism.
But racism has nothing at to do with anything since we live in a post-racial society since the end of the Civil War. Proof being a black President.
If only the Democrats would stop bringing up race all the time everyone would look white. People are naturally color-blind.-
Quote from Frumious
But racism has nothing at to do with anything since we live in a post-racial society since the end of the Civil War. Proof being a black President.
Correct, and as he was truly the president of ‘all americans’ and did such a great job at uniting the country, we finally managed to move past all of this.
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How absurd to expect one person to unite hundreds of millions of people.
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Quote from hey
How absurd to expect one person to unite hundreds of millions of people.
If Obama couldn’t unite us, how could Trump possibly divide us?
This is not quantum physics.
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Trump says Taiwan called him but Taiwan says called was arranged–ok like the code for Nucs was put in by my finger print but I didn’t mean it
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Quote from fw
Quote from hey
How absurd to expect one person to unite hundreds of millions of people.
If Obama couldn’t unite us, how could Trump possibly divide us?
This is not quantum physics.
It’s basic math, divide and conquer. Obama was all about addition butTrump’s campaign was all about division!
The politics of resentment. A blond Sarah Palin.-
Austria rejects populism.far right–winner says the world has change with BREXIT and Trump—no all we need is England to change up with BREXIT–an America will look like the naive idiot that elected Trump
the world is reacting to Trump–Austria-Italy
not certain what to make of NZ Prime Minister resignation
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Quote from sentinel lymph node
Ben Carson do us a favor –reject being the black face and say no to HUD–u are unqualified
Is he any more unqualified than Trump is to be POTUS?-
Yes–per Trump he is psychological
we will have to see what effect this country will face when foreign leaders feel that U may not be able to trust the word of the President or some of his enablers(
again–Ivanka’s licensing Japan deal–how can we not say that a gift was given and since there is no separation between the kids and bizness then the state department should confiscate this as a gift and assume the proper ownership to the US.Quote from jd4540
Quote from sentinel lymph node
Ben Carson do us a favor –reject being the black face and say no to HUD–u are unqualified
Is he any more unqualified than Trump is to be POTUS?
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Quote from sentinel lymph node
HRC ahead by 2.7 million votes
Quote from Frumious
Kathleen Parker, Republican columnist on Washington Post calling for 37 Republican electors to defect.
Wow!
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-electoral-college-should-be-unfaithful/2016/12/06/360f8f2c-bbfb-11e6-ac85-094a21c44abc_story.html]https://www.washingtonpos…94a21c44abc_story.html[/link]
How many popular votes does she need to reach so that the electoral college vote is nullified and she becomes POTUS?
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It’s funny you mention the electoral college since they haven’t actually voted yet.
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Michigan recount is halted. Federal judge told Stein that she doesn’t have a case.
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This whole recount business makes a mockery out of the whole election process. Not to mention hypocritical given Hillary’s comments in regards to accepting the election result. I voted in CA and what would be interesting is if they did a recount here. I know many undocumented people who vote and have done so for many years.
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lie lie pants on fire–I voted in CA and it was a 2 step check process after waiting 20 minutes
your guy lost the popular vote and is showing how nasty and petty he can be by getting in a twitter fight with the Union President who told Carrier workers the true number of jobs that were staying–no what a nasty grinch heartless person would sit up there and let workers think that their job was safe only to find out that the President elect lied about the true count and would later blame the workers for their job lost
-what a nasty Grinch–the Grinch who stole Christmas 2016-
Quote from 1faztnsx
This whole recount business makes a mockery out of the whole election process. Not to mention hypocritical given Hillary’s comments in regards to accepting the election result. I voted in CA and what would be interesting is if they did a recount here. I know many undocumented people who vote and have done so for many years.
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the Grinch who stole carrier worker’s christmas and then got in a twitter spat –not very Presidential
#notmyPRESIDENT–#Comey-electPresident-#illegitamitePresident–#SnowFlakesGetInFORMATION-
Linda McMahon for SBA administrator !
Maybe Trump can set up a grudge match between her and Nancy Pelosi. Put it on pay per view.-
Quote from fw
Linda McMahon for SBA administrator !
Maybe Trump can set up a grudge match between her and Nancy Pelosi. Put it on pay per view.
She might be a good pick. They took a bunch of guys performing wrestling in high school gyms and made it huge. Now if he appoints the Million Dollar Man Ted DiBiase and Irwin R Schyster “IRS” to lead the actual IRS, we might have a problem.
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Generals and Billionaires–oh what a toxic web that is weaved
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HRC-65,476,535
Trump-62,821,935
The HRC/ independent voters are not going anywhere and will be a constant roar against tyrants -
Quote from sentinel lymph node
HRC-65,476,535
Trump-62,821,935
That’s all California. -
Quote from sentinel lymph node
Generals and Billionaires–oh what a toxic web that is weaved
Look forward to life under a military junta. A general in charge of ‘homeland security’, what could possibly go wrong ?
If the current yahoo had been interested in reigning in the military industrical complex, he would have dissolved DHS and moved the coasties back to the navy. But he didn’t.
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This administration is shaping up to be real fun. A religious zealot as attorney general and now a flatearther as EPA administrator. I am sure Trump sits at his desk and goes down a list of name until he finds the one that can get the dems most riled up with.
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Ah, the return of polluted air and water in the name of increased profits.
How is Trump going to help W. Virginia and Kentucky win coal over natural gas? He did promise to bring coal and all the jobs back.
Reagan did the same thing and we survived his Administration. And hardly surprising considering Trump’s campaign.
So much for those who thought Trump was a moderate in reactionary clothing. What is David Duke’s cabinet position?
But no matter what happens, & it won’t be good, it will be the Republican & Trumpests’ government.
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Quote from jd4540
Quote from sentinel lymph node
HRC ahead by 2.7 million votes
Quote from Frumious
Kathleen Parker, Republican columnist on Washington Post calling for 37 Republican electors to defect.
Wow!
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-electoral-college-should-be-unfaithful/2016/12/06/360f8f2c-bbfb-11e6-ac85-094a21c44abc_story.html]https://www.washingtonpos…94a21c44abc_story.html[/link]
How many popular votes does she need to reach so that the electoral college vote is nullified and she becomes POTUS?
LOL she is not going to win. That cheating bag of dirt and the DNCs nonsense antics are the reason we are in this situation to begin with. The party as a whole needs a reboot. DWS stepped down for cheating and then they replace with Donna Brazile who engaged in the same unethical behavior? What were they thinking?
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Quote from Frumious
Ah, the return of polluted air and water in the name of increased profits.
And dergon can watch the river burn right from his living room window !!
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You’ll bring the marshmallows, I’m sure. I’ll pass on eating one, thanks, they’re all for you.
So much for any moderate fantasies of Republicans wanting to reach across the aisle in a new Republican Trump Administration.
Burn, baby burn!-
Quote from Frumious
So much for any moderate fantasies of Republicans wanting to reach across the aisle in a new Republican Trump Administration.
the whole reach across the aisle/bi-partisanship seems to be campaigning rhetoric for both parties…looks like the republicans are going to go apesh*t and ram things through, I image most mod-republicans will happily go with the flow. May even be able to get some of those dem senators that are up for re-election in red states 2018
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Quote from fw
Quote from Frumious
Ah, the return of polluted air and water in the name of increased profits.
And dergon can watch the river burn right from his living room window !!
I wouldn’t worry about that. Nothing coming in or out of the cuyahoga due to the fact that the Government has already fudged the Cuyahoga river. They won’t dredge because no wants them to dump the toxic sludge in the lake. Which makes total sense to me, but not to the Army Corp of Engineers who want to open dump toxins into the lake.
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The sludge is not to be dumped into any lakes, it’s to be on shore, no? The EPA has said the sludge is too polluted with PCPs to dump into the lakes. And the Army Corps said it doesn’t have the funds for land disposal.
So how is this the government’s fault? Now with the new EPA head, this sludge can be dumped into the lakes, no? Case solved. No need for additional funds for safe disposal.
And dredging is also for shipping and business so the cargo ships don’t have to lighten their loads. Without dredging the smelter plants could close down, no?-
Quote from Frumious
The sludge is not to be dumped into any lakes, it’s to be on shore, no? The EPA has said the sludge is too polluted with PCPs to dump into the lakes. And the Army Corps said it doesn’t have the funds for land disposal.
So how is this the government’s fault? Now with the new EPA head, this sludge can be dumped into the lakes, no? Case solved. No need for additional funds for safe disposal.
And dredging is also for shipping and business so the cargo ships don’t have to lighten their loads. Without dredging the smelter plants could close down, no?
the Army Corp want to dump the sediment into the Lake and Ohio EPA won’t allow. Actually I didn’t realize this but Portman and Brown got a ban into a senate bill.
[link=http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2016/05/us_senate_passes_bill_barring.html]http://www.cleveland.com/…sses_bill_barring.html[/link]
How it this the government fault? It’s the government spending time and money fighting another government agency. The Army corp wanted to do something that, while less costly, seems like it would be terrible for the environment. Why purposefully dump that garbage into the the Lake.
As far as the closing of plants that’s what I mean. If no business is going on near or on the river, it won’t be getting polluted, and catching on fire. The whole dredging thing is the government vs the government (although I think those businesses should be chipping in to if they aren’t).
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
I wouldn’t worry about that. Nothing coming in or out of the cuyahoga due to the fact that the Government has already fudged the Cuyahoga river. They won’t dredge because no wants them to dump the toxic sludge in the lake. Which makes total sense to me, but not to the Army Corp of Engineers who want to open dump toxins into the lake.
Well, then bring in the EPA. I am sure they can come up with a way to release a couple of million gallons of toxic sludge into the lake.
Most of the industry that used to make the Cuyahoga burn now produces burning rivers in Gjiina.
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Quote from sentinel lymph node
HRC-65,476,535
Trump-62,821,935
The HRC/ independent voters are not going anywhere and will be a constant roar against tyrantsRegardless of the roar, Republicans will ram through tons of legislation and depending on your point of view, do tons of good or damage…on the upside, you will have an endless supply of rich material to inspire new posts!
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yeah because the lies will continue
Quote from jd4540
Quote from sentinel lymph node
HRC-65,476,535
Trump-62,821,935
The HRC/ independent voters are not going anywhere and will be a constant roar against tyrantsRegardless of the roar, Republicans will ram through tons of legislation and depending on your point of view, do tons of good or damage…on the upside, you will have an endless supply of rich material to inspire new posts!
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Quote from sentinel lymph node
yeah because the lies will continue
Quote from jd4540
Quote from sentinel lymph node
HRC-65,476,535
Trump-62,821,935
The HRC/ independent voters are not going anywhere and will be a constant roar against tyrantsRegardless of the roar, Republicans will ram through tons of legislation and depending on your point of view, do tons of good or damage…on the upside, you will have an endless supply of rich material to inspire new posts!
Yes lies/propaganda will continue but thats par for the course but elections have consequences and we are about to find out what exactly they are
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Chuck Jones exposed the lie–now Trump says well it hard when the execs say well we have already built the building in Mexico
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now the middle wage con has been exposed
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New labor secretary opposed to all labor & consumer protections as well as higher wages. As Trump has stated several times, American workers are over-paid.
The joke is on Trump voters.
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Quote from Frumious
New labor secretary opposed to all labor & consumer protections as well as higher wages. As Trump has stated several times, American workers are over-paid.
The joke is on Trump voters.
unfortunately joke will be on everyone
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I hope dems weigh very carefully before getting total on board with Mattis–I did not like when they initially came out in support of Comey when he did the press conference–seeing General come out as a prop at a Trump rally is not a good optic.. Green Beret Jason Amerine has reported an incident when he requested aid for his men while in Afghanistan( questions should be asked since the GOP was so Benghazi crazy and questions should be asked concerning Iran)
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Quote from fw
That’s all California.
What is this even supposed to mean? Love people discounting the coasts when they are the ones always whining about middle America getting ignored. Certainly not ignored by federal government transfer payments from the coasts, that’s for sure.
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Amen–both coast support the middle
Now let’s spread the word–Boycott Celebrity Apprentice–don’t put money in Trump’s pocket–send Burnett and NBC a messsage–Just watch something else
Quote from deadwing
Quote from fw
That’s all California.
What is this even supposed to mean? Love people discounting the coasts when they are the ones always whining about middle America getting ignored. Certainly not ignored by federal government transfer payments from the coasts, that’s for sure.
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Quote from deadwing
Quote from fw
That’s all California.
What is this even supposed to mean?
That all the crowing about how Hillary won the popular vote ignores the fact that this is simply a reflection of the lopsided result in one state. A state that through an accident of history is much larger than other states. Back when the constitution was written, Virginia was that state and everything was designed in a way that one big state can’t push the little states like Rhode Island and Delaware around. It still works that way.-
Quote from fw
Quote from deadwing
Quote from fw
That’s all California.
What is this even supposed to mean?
That all the crowing about how Hillary won the popular vote ignores the fact that this is simply a reflection of the lopsided result in one state. A state that through an accident of history is much larger than other states. Back when the constitution was written, Virginia was that state and everything was designed in a way that one big state can’t push the little states like Rhode Island and Delaware around. It still works that way.
It was designed so that slaves counted as voters, even if only 3/5, so that the less populated slave states would have more or equal say, based on population, than the more populous northern states that did not depend on the free labor of slavery.
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Quote from Frumious
It was designed so that slaves counted as voters, even if only 3/5, so that the less populated slave states would have more or equal say, based on population, than the more populous northern states that did not depend on the free labor of slavery.
You keep repeating that claim like it is true. Virginia was considerably larger than all of the other states but saw its representation further strengthened by the 3/5th rule. Your argument make no sense.-
Because there are multiple reasons for the whole Constitution. The smaller states liked the New Jersey plan which gave equal representation to all states – the Senate.
One of the most divisive issues facing the Convention was the structure of Congress. James Madison’s Virginia Plan called for a bicameral Congress; the lower house would be elected directly by the people, and the upper house would be elected by the lower house. The plan drew the support of delegates from large states such as Virginia, Massachusetts, and Pennsylvania, as it called for representation based on population. The smaller states, however, favored the New Jersey Plan, which called for a unicameral Congress with equal representation for the states. Eventually, a compromise, known as the Connecticut Compromise or the Great Compromise was reached; one house of Congress (the House of Representatives) would provide proportional representation, whereas the other (the Senate) would provide equal representation.
Regarding the 3/5 compromise, read on:
[link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-Fifths_Compromise]https://en.wikipedia.org/…hree-Fifths_Compromise[/link]The Three-Fifths Compromise was a compromise reached between delegates from southern states and those from northern states during the 1787 United States Constitutional Convention. The debate was over whether, and if so, how, slaves would be counted when determining a state’s total population for legislative representation and taxing purposes. The issue was important, as this population number would then be used to determine the number of seats that the state would have in the United States House of Representatives for the next ten years. The effect was to give the southern states a third more seats in Congress and a third more electoral votes than if slaves had been ignored, but fewer than if slaves and free persons had been counted equally, allowing the slaveholder interests to largely dominate the government of the United States until 1861.
So explain to historians how it makes no sense to you. -
The big problem now is that the number of Representatives in the House is weighed in favor of the less populous states. So it originally was that a specific number of the population determined a representative which would give more populous states “equal” representation, now it’s determined that the House will have no more than 435 seats which is greatly in favor of states with small populations ignoring the will of the majority of voters in the more populous states.
[link=http://history.house.gov/Institution/Apportionment/Determining-Apportionment/]http://history.house.gov/…rmining-Apportionment/[/link]
Up to and including the 13th Census in 1910, Congress enacted a law designating the specific changes in the actual number of Representatives as well as the increase in the representation ratio. In 1941, Congress permanently adopted the Method of Equal Proportion to determine apportionment.
In order to keep the House at a manageable number, Congress twice set the size of the House at 435 voting Membersthe then-existing number of Representatives.
The total membership of the House of Representatives is 441 Members. There are 435 Representatives from the 50 states. In addition, five, non-voting Delegates represent the District of Columbia and the U.S. territories of Guam, the U.S. Virgin Islands, the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands, and American Samoa.
[link=http://www.census.gov/topics/public-sector/congressional-apportionment/about.html]http://www.census.gov/top…portionment/about.html[/link]
“Apportionment” is the process of dividing the 435 memberships, or seats, in the House of Representatives among the 50 states.
The Constitution provides that each state will have a minimum of one member in the U.S. House of Representatives, and then the apportionment calculation divides the remaining 385 seats among the 50 states. Congress decides the method used to calculate the apportionment.
Adopted by Congress in 1941 and used each census thereafter, the method of equal proportions also results in a listing of the states according to a priority value–calculated by dividing the population of each state by the geometric mean of its current and next seats–that assigns seats 51 through 435.
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So basically the representation is in a way, artificial and arbitrary and can be changed. Only the fact that it advantages the GOP means it will not become more representative.
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Quote from deadwing
Quote from fw
That’s all California.
What is this even supposed to mean?
Hillary won CA by ~4.3M votes and leads nationally by ~2.5M votes. So without CA, she lost 49 states by an aggregate ~2.0M votes. Taking it further, remove NY and she lost 48 states by about ~4.0M.
Oddly, while underperforming Obama for the most part elsewhere, she beat out even Obama here. -
Quote from deadwing
Quote from fw
That’s all California.
What is this even supposed to mean? Love people discounting the coasts when they are the ones always whining about middle America getting ignored. Certainly not ignored by federal government transfer payments from the coasts, that’s for sure.
seems like the whole point of the electoral college. California get’s 55 electoral votes. So they’re getting a far say.
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So in essence fw believes that a California voter should mean less than an Iowa voter. The location of where votes comes from is irrelevant when discussing the popular vote
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Love arguments regarding vote totals that start with “if we ignore California.” Followed by, “if we ignore New York.” Haha, that’s like over sixty million people.
How about if we could start ignoring vast swaths of farm country or oil drilling hellscapes or redneck swamp country, thanks.-
..the point is popular vote wouldn’t be fair because it doesn’t account for different needs of different geographical regions as the population is concentration in certain areas (i.e. NY, CA, etc). Dems would sweep every time with todays population distribution. If we are going to make the argument for popular vote being the one that counts, why have states at all?
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Feudal system
Big Landowners should have more of a vote than smaller landowners
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haha
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It’s not fair because vast swaths of farmland need more of a say? Seems like the fair thing to do would be to have each vote be equal. But hey, let’s agree to disagree.
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Quote from Thor
So in essence fw believes that a California voter should mean less than an Iowa voter. The location of where votes comes from is irrelevant when discussing the popular vote
California voters do count less than Iowa voters. As do New Jersey voters as do New York voters, as do Connecticut voters, as do Massachusetts voters, etc.
The calculations for representation are rigged in favor of the under populated regions of the US in order to reach the maximum number of allowed House seats as opposed to have a representative per x number of population.
So yes, the system is rigged. And deadwing is correct, farms of several hundred acres and a family of 4 living on each has more voting power than those hundreds of acres in Manhattan with millions of people based on the math of calculating representatives and Electors.
Hell, forget farmland, just look at unpopulated land anywhere.
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so Rudy has now been dumped–wonder if pending investigation by Comey/ NY FBI office played a roll
and Christie–good bye RNC
so much for Trump loyalty-
so Rudy Christie and Newt were given the boot and Sarah would complained about the Carrier deal
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Well, Kennedy got elected in Louisiana to replace ‘little black book Vitter’.
So its now a firm 52:48 in the senate. It’ll be grand !!
Oh, and the runoff in LA also elected Clay Higgins to the house:
[link]https://youtu.be/m1lc7i7BaG8[/link]
I can’t wait for the first time he addresses the full assembly.
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Rick Perry for energy, which is a what he wanted to get rid of. The Trump theme for his picks continues.
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Too bad Bernie Madoff is in prison, he could be in charge of Treasury.
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Quote from Frumious
Too bad Bernie Madoff is in prison, he could be in charge of Treasury.
Well, he is an expert on the way treasury has been run for the last couple of years. Trump could pardon him on day 1 in office, sort of an ‘Inverse Marc Rich’.
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Trump’s new head of the DEA:
[link]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4B49XZYBzE[/link]
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the same Rick Perry who said have u decency–then came dancing with the stars
Quote from DICOM_Dan
Rick Perry for energy, which is a what he wanted to get rid of. The Trump theme for his picks continues.
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Trump stands by his B list celeb list====cra cra Kanye had a meet –Kanye looked sedated–released recently from the hospital
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Trump bizness partner arrested in Turkey–already foreign countries are pulling levarge–the dumb Trump voters don’t realize u can’t put lipstick on crap
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billionaire-generals-oil men—get ready for gas price to rise and rise–Russia desperate for price to go up–so agree to cut production
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Quote from sentinel lymph node
billionaire-generals-oil men—get ready for gas price to rise and rise–Russia desperate for price to go up–so agree to cut production
Actually, get ready for obstacles to production to fall and prices to drop.-
Jim Brown on Hannity, one of the greatest athletes of all-time, still seems sharp at 80 years of age
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