[tdetlie_105]

Quote from MISTRAD

I have to say…this is the craziest thing I have ever lived through in my lifetime.

God help us all. 

 yep pretty crazy 

[100574]

I hope Obama withdraws from TPP

[100574]

did not go to any Veteran events today but the military wanted him–

Quote from MISTRAD

I have to say…this is the craziest thing I have ever lived through in my lifetime.

God help us all. 

[kaldridgewv2211]

I was just a pup when Reagan was elected but I sort of wonder if this is just the 2016 version of that. The evolution of celebrity presidents.

[100574]

 I did hope that a Trump loss would fasten the demise of this idiotic reality TV stuff-( yeah I had other hidden agendas beyond having the most prepared person win)-it needs to go like 80’s hair–it has allowed bullying and no talent to get rewards that are not earned
we need to address an issue raised by the birther/SC decision–what is a legitimate President

Quote from DICOM_Dan

I was just a pup when Reagan was elected but I sort of wonder if this is just the 2016 version of that. The evolution of celebrity presidents.

[kaldridgewv2211]

I’m not sure what you mean. What is a legitimate president? Dude got elected. He’s the next POTUS. I hope for the best but be prepared for the worst.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Trump’s trial coming up. Guess he’s going to pardon himself. Or the GOP will clear the decks for President Pence.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Trump is draining the swamp & awarding the reptiles who come out more positions in his Administration.
 
 

[btomba_77]

Quote from MISTRAD

I have to say…this is the craziest thing I have ever lived through in my lifetime.

God help us all. 

Yep.  I hope that the awesome burden and responsibilities of the job quickly become clear to Mr. Trump and he chooses to rule with some degree of measured sobriety for the sake of the nation.
 

Quote from sentinel lymph node

I hope Obama withdraws from TPP

 
I don’t.  Let Trump withdraw and manage the fallout.
 

Quote from DICOM_Dan

I’m not sure what you mean. What is a legitimate president? Dude got elected. He’s the next POTUS. I hope for the best but be prepared for the worst.

 
 
Yep.    I do not wish failure upon the Trump Presidency. He won fairly and deserves a chance to rule.
 
I will oppose him on policy positions I disagree with and will call him out if I believe he denigrates the office of the Presidency, but I do not wish him ill.
 
 

[kayla.meyer_144]

It is not just Trump, there is the Republican Congress that has stated hostility to everything & wants to dismantle everything, including Medicare. Let’s see how the Trump voters support that!

[btomba_77]

Self- quote from 4 years ago this week –  Just a reminder about what we said then:
 

Quote from dergon

Quote from MISTRAD

I have to say…this is the craziest thing I have ever lived through in my lifetime.

God help us all. 

Yep.  I hope that the awesome burden and responsibilities of the job quickly become clear to Mr. Trump and he chooses to rule with some degree of measured sobriety for the sake of the nation.

Quote from DICOM_Dan

I’m not sure what you mean. What is a legitimate president? Dude got elected. He’s the next POTUS. I hope for the best but be prepared for the worst.

Yep.    I do not wish failure upon the Trump Presidency. He won fairly and deserves a chance to rule.

I will oppose him on policy positions I disagree with and will call him out if I believe he denigrates the office of the Presidency, but I do not wish him ill.

[btomba_77]

On Trump’s Legacy —

[link=https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/01/the-legacy-of-donald-trump/617255/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share&fbclid=IwAR0mpnkPF6BcjjAvijHRXW3jyls4Z7qeM3KjYk4bdAKnW8mj1mLHhuUOVqs]https://www.theatlantic.c…k4bdAKnW8mj1mLHhuUOVqs[/link]

[h1]A Political Obituary for Donald Trump[/h1] The effects of his reign will linger. But democracy survived.

[b]America under Trump became less free, less equal, more divided, more alone, deeper in debt, swampier, dirtier, meaner, sicker, and deader[/b]. It also became more delusional. No number from Trumps years in power will be more lastingly destructive than [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/trump-claims-database/?itid=lk_inline_manual_3]his 25,000 false or misleading statements[/link]. Super-spread by social media and cable news, they contaminated the minds of tens of millions of people. Trumps lies will linger for years, poisoning the atmosphere like radioactive dust.

…

For his opponents, the lies were intended to be profoundly demoralizing. Neither counting them nor checking facts nor debunking conspiracies made any difference. Trump demonstrated again and again that the truth doesnt matter. In rational people this provoked incredulity, outrage, exhaustion, and finally an impulse to crawl away and abandon the field of politics to the fantasists.

For believers, the consequences were worse. They surrendered the ability to make basic judgments about facts, exiling themselves from the common framework of self-government. They became litter swirling in the wind of any preposterous claim that blew from @realDonaldTrump. Truth was whatever made the world whole again by hurting their enemiesthe more far-fetched, the more potent and thrilling. After the election, as charges of voter fraud began to pile up, Matthew Sheffield, a reformed right-wing media activist, [link=https://twitter.com/mattsheffield/status/1324908316548493313?s=20]tweeted[/link]: Truth for conservative journalists is anything that harms the left. It doesnt even have to be a fact. Trumps numerous lies about any subject under the sun are thus justified because his deceptions point to a larger truth: that liberals are evil.

…
Trumps legacy includes an extremist Republican Party that tries to hold on to power by flagrantly undemocratic means, and an opposition pushed toward its own version of extremism. He leaves behind a society in which the bonds of trust are degraded, in which his example licenses everyone to cheat on taxes and mock affliction. Many of his policies can be reversed or mitigated. It will be much harder to clear our minds of his lies and restore the shared understanding of realitythe agreement, however inconvenient, that A is A and not Bon which a democracy depends.

[/QUOTE]
 

As a former conservative activist and journalist, it has been so frustrating to see my former compatriots spreading wild and unchecked claims about "voter fraud." @jacknicas of the NYT took a deep look at claims of "dead" people in Michigan voting. Link in next tweet.

— Matthew Sheffield (@mattsheffield) November 7, 2020

[kayla.meyer_144]

Barely survived. And still under attack by Republicans.

[ruszja]

Quote from Frumious

Trump’s trial coming up. Guess he’s going to pardon himself. Or the GOP will clear the decks for President Pence.

It’s a civil suit you doofus.

[Unknown Member]

The US is not a dictatorship and he doesn’t have absolute power. Plus, he’s not really a conservative. He just had to pretend to be one to get elected.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Well he might be a Conservative but there is no one on this board who can intelligently explain exactly what he is either. He has however, made some very hateful statements and does associate with very unlovable people who have said very unlovable statements. And there is Congress who now has a majority to dismantle quite a lot. Would Trump disagree with even a veto? Would Congress care if he vetoed? I’m very sure Pence & all who surround Trump would advise Trump to agree with Congress IF Trump even had an opinion that was different.
 
Trump is not Bush & the Republican Congress was a push-over for Bush/Cheney. I’d bet Trump is a pushover for today’s Republican Congress if not an active participant.
 
In a absolute sense no one knows what tomorrow will bring but as a betting man, I’d say the odds are very good that Trump & Congress is not a good omen for the Country. 
 
You have different odds?
 
I suppose here is test #1 for his supporters.
 
[link=http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/13/business/economy/can-trump-save-their-jobs-theyre-counting-on-it.html]http://www.nytimes.com/20…re-counting-on-it.html[/link]
 

Carriers decision to move the factory to Monterrey, Mexico, will eliminate 1,400 jobs by 2019. Mr. Trump quickly made the factory Exhibit A in his argument against the trade policies of Republicans and Democrats alike.
 
He cited Carrier again and again on the campaign trail, threatening to phone executives at the company and its parent, United Technologies, and to hit them with 35 percent tariffs on any furnaces and air-conditioners they imported from Mexico. To the cheers of his supporters, he predicted at rallies that Carrier would call him up as president and say, Sir, weve decided to stay in the United States.
 
Now his supporters expect action. If he doesnt pass that tariff, I will vote the other way next time, warned Nicole Hargrove, who has worked at Carrier for a decade and a half and is not certain what she will do if and when her job goes to Mexico.
 
Carrier isnt changing its plans. On Friday in a written statement, the company said, We are making every effort to ease the transition for our Carrier colleagues in Indiana. The company pointed out that it will finance four-year retraining and educational programs for employees and provide financial help.
 
For Mr. Trump, now comes the hard part. In interviews in recent days and in March, Trump voters here made clear that if he does not follow through on his promises, they are prepared to turn on him, just as they are seemingly punishing Democrats today for not delivering the hope and change voters sought from President Obama after he won as an outsider in 2008.

 
Trade wars coming?
 
 
 
 
 

[jquinones8812_854]

Trump is the platypus of politics… Nobody knows what he is.

Obama has already basically pulled out of TPP… Ironically it is a position Hillary agreed with publicly.

[Unknown Member]

You guys fail to see who Trump really is – just a political opportunist.
 
He was born into wealth in NYC, attended U Penn Wharton, has lived o the East coast his whole life, has had multiple wives and countless women,  was basically a Dem and pro-choice his whole life.
 
It’s pretty clear he is shocked he won and has nothing in common with the people who elected him in his so-called “movement”.
 
You telling me he would kick out of bed a beautiful Latina? He doesn’t hate anyone – it was all political opportunism.  Kudos to him for pulling it off, proves anything is possible in the good
ol USA.

[henriqueabreu]

Kudos? You’re admitting he’s the worlds biggest Con Artist and he deserves applause?

[kayla.meyer_144]

The question remains, macro, what are the Republicans going to do whether or not under Trump leadership? & would Trump support their moves. I think he’s a con man that found his way up using Birtherism as his foundation & moved out from there on an anti-Obama platform. Does he understand health care ? Doubt it, it was just a ticket. But no one really knows what his personal beliefs are outside of looking out for #1.

[100574]

and Ryan has the votes–he can overide a President veto –that will be interesting to see Trump’s response

Quote from Frumious

The question remains, macro, what are the Republicans going to do whether or not under Trump leadership? & would Trump support their moves. I think he’s a con man that found his way up using Birtherism as his foundation & moved out from there on an anti-Obama platform. Does he understand health care ? Doubt it, it was just a ticket. But no one really knows what his personal beliefs are outside of looking out for #1.

[Unknown Member]

Con artist vs opportunist kinda depends on ur perspective. Politicians in general are far worse than Trump.

[henriqueabreu]

Some good laughs here.   [link=http://www.mediaite.com/online/trump-supporter-goes-nuts-on-nbcs-cal-perry-and-the-media-you-fcking-motherfckers/]http://www.mediaite.com/o…u-fcking-motherfckers/[/link]

[ka.amirzadeh]

By the way….
[link=https://70news.wordpress.com/2016/11/12/final-election-2016-numbers-trump-won-both-popular-62-9-m-62-7-m-and-electoral-college-vote-306-232-hey-change-org-scrap-your-loony-petition-now/]https://70news.wordpress….ur-loony-petition-now/[/link]
 
Now everyone can go home….

[kaldridgewv2211]

Quote from Frumious

Trade wars coming?

 
I think he’ll get reality checked by the glocal economy.  Ford is moving less profitable small cars to Mexico but starting 2 new lines in the US.  So it’ll end up being a wash on jobs.  People won’t be happy when they can’t get a Ford Focus for less than $25k.
 
[link=http://jalopnik.com/ford-mounts-a-defense-on-twitter-following-donald-trump-1787119518]http://jalopnik.com/ford-…onald-trump-1787119518[/link]
 
 

[kayla.meyer_144]

Ryan says there will be no mass deportations.
 
Next, there will be no wall.Next we’ll be told we can’t bring the jobs back! And Muslims are nice people who deserve to stay in America.
 
And Obama care, we’re keeping everything except the mandate. That’ll fix everything that’s wrong with Obamacare!!!
 
Then why the heck did we vote for Trump???
 
Yeah, they will find out that all the reasons they voted for Trump are null and void even before January gets here.

[aryfa_995]

Haha this is great.

[Unknown Member]

How many Presidents actually deliver everything they promise on the campaign?? Zero.

I don’t think his supporters actually expect everything he promised to happen.

[aryfa_995]

The histrionic perpetual whiners in the Breitbart-Limbaugh-Drudge world will certainly turn into careful realists immediately after Obama is out of office, I’m sure.

[100574]

Bannon–if kept is a problem–if dropped is a problem

Quote from deadwing

The histrionic perpetual whiners in the Breitbart-Limbaugh-Drudge world will certainly turn into careful realists immediately after Obama is out of office, I’m sure.

[100574]

but Indianapolis Trump supporters said Trump would call and magic would happen–we keep these jobs here
-Truth:-Carrier says it will continue to relocate 1,400 workers to Mexico( would not see if they speed the process up to be done prior to Trump’s inauguration)

Quote from macrophallus

How many Presidents actually deliver everything they promise on the campaign?? Zero.

I don’t think his supporters actually expect everything he promised to happen.

[btomba_77]

Quote from sentinel lymph node

but Indianapolis Trump supporters said Trump would called and magic would happen–we keep these jobs here
-Truth:-Carrier says it will continue to relocate 1,400 workers to Mexico( would not see if they speed the process up to be done prior to Trump’s inauguration)

Quote from macrophallus

How many Presidents actually deliver everything they promise on the campaign?? Zero.

I don’t think his supporters actually expect everything he promised to happen.

 
 
I think that Trump v. Carrier will be a very telling erly showdown of the Trump Presidency.
 
[url=http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/13/business/economy/can-trump-save-their-jobs-theyre-counting-on-it.html]
Can Trump Save Their Jobs? Theyre Counting on It[/url][/h1]  

Carriers decision to move the factory to Monterrey, Mexico, will eliminate 1,400 jobs by 2019. Mr. Trump quickly made the factory Exhibit A in his argument against the trade policies of Republicans and Democrats alike.
 
He cited Carrier again and again on the campaign trail, threatening to phone executives at the company and its parent, United Technologies, and to hit them with 35 percent tariffs on any furnaces and air-conditioners they imported from Mexico. To the cheers of his supporters, he predicted at rallies that Carrier would call him up as president and say, Sir, weve decided to stay in the United States.
 
Carrier isnt changing its plans. On Friday in a written statement, the company said, We are making every effort to ease the transition for our Carrier colleagues in Indiana. The company pointed out that it will finance four-year retraining and educational programs for employees and provide financial help.
 
For Mr. Trump, now comes the hard part. In interviews in recent days and in March, Trump voters here made clear that if he does not follow through on his promises, they are prepared to turn on him, just as they are seemingly punishing Democrats today for not delivering the hope and change voters sought from President Obama after he won as an outsider in 2008.

 
 
What can/will Trump do stop Carrier?  Will he get support in the form of some protectionist legislation from a GOP congress? (unlikely) … Will he be able to use “the art of the deal” and cajole/pressure Carrier?  
 
I’m doubtful that, beyond infrastructure spending, the GOP congress is going to be particularly amenable to any actual populist action helpful to the working class on the part of President Trump.
 
The working class is likely to get one of the biggest bait-and-switch maneuvers ever seen.  Carrier will probably be a microcosm of that.
 

[kaldridgewv2211]

Quote from dergon

I’m doubtful that, beyond infrastructure spending, the GOP congress is going to be particularly amenable to any actual populist action helpful to the working class on the part of President Trump.

The working class is likely to get one of the biggest bait-and-switch maneuvers ever seen.  Carrier will probably be a microcosm of that.

I think that might be the best way to spend money the government coffers.  Put it work on modernizing, building, fixing infrastructure.  That requires hard choices on how to spend the money, does he want to spend a boat load of money modernizing nucs?  That would create skilled trades jobs, and even professional jobs.
 
I don’t see the Carrier HVACs, or Ford Fiestas getting built in the US anymore either.   
 

[jquinones8812_854]

Trump can’t do anything about most of his promises.

I hate to tell you: his supporters know this and don’t care. 

[Unknown Member]

I bet Trump works like a dog (20 hr days) – he will win the respect of many hardworking Americans through his work ethic and dedication to his job. This is why it’s worth letting an outsider from the private sector give it a shot. I hope career politicians are a thing of the past, those lazy scumbags. They waste our hard earned tax money and do nothing of value, spending their time in the golf course.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Quote from macrophallus

I bet Trump works like a dog (20 hr days) – he will win the respect of many hardworking Americans through his work ethic and dedication to his job. This is why it’s worth letting an outsider from the private sector give it a shot. I hope career politicians are a thing of the past, those lazy scumbags. They waste our hard earned tax money and do nothing of value, spending their time in the golf course.

Bet not.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Quote from MISTRAD

Trump can’t do anything about most of his promises.

I hate to tell you: his supporters know this and don’t care. 

I would bet you are wrong about them not caring that he won’t deliver.
 
I know the Republicans will continue to distract by blaming every non-delivery on the Democrats but with Republicans owning all 3 Branches of government, it is going to have to be a whole new level of paranoia you all push, a level we haven’t seen yet. With Breitbart in a drivers’ seat, I’m sure Stevie will find a new noise level at any rate.

[jquinones8812_854]

Quote from Frumious

Quote from MISTRAD

Trump can’t do anything about most of his promises.

I hate to tell you: his supporters know this and don’t care. 

I would bet you are wrong about them not caring that he won’t deliver.

I know the Republicans will continue to distract by blaming every non-delivery on the Democrats but with Republicans owning all 3 Branches of government, it is going to have to be a whole new level of paranoia you all push, a level we haven’t seen yet. With Breitbart in a drivers’ seat, I’m sure Stevie will find a new noise level at any rate.

I think the test case will be making Mexico pay for the wall.

There was zero chance of that happening; will his voters make him pay for that mistake?
 
I highly doubt it. 

[kaldridgewv2211]

I don’t see any direct way to get money from them other than through tariffs.  I would like to see him take some steps that might have a more immediate impact.  Maybe use some of the advanced drones we have to patrol and then direct resources to catch people sneaking over the border.  There must be known places people are coming across illegally.  
 
Not that it’s the end all to opioid addiction but I do think it’s a step in the right direction to try and stop drugs from coming over by all means necessary.  Way to many times are people overdosing and killing themselves, or getting saved by narcan just to do it again.

[rex.walton_814 rex.walton_814]

Pessimists all. This isn’t the craziest thing in your life.  Its only the craziest thing in your life…so far.  – Homer Simpson.
 
The only thing that amazed me about this election was that Trump was the least qualified of the 14 republicans who threw their names into the hat in the primaries, and yet, even he was still a better choice than Clinton.  That doesn’t say much for Trump, because it was such a low bar to clear.
 
The homosexual couple that successfully sued a Christian bakery, and the HHS suing a bunch of catholic nuns, and Hobby Lobby over birth control coverage under the ACA, frightened Americans into realizing just how big the government has intruded into our lives, and Trump promised a way out.  Those three lawsuits did more to lose the election for Hillary than the Russian hacks, the illegal email server, Benghazi, and Clinton Foundation pay to play put together. IMHO.
You cannot claim to be the party of inclusiveness and tolerance if you have to actively persecute anyone who believes differently than you. When Christ commanded us to turn the other cheek, His heavenly Father was careful to give us only two cheeks to turn, not dozens.
 
 
 

[btomba_77]

Theyll all bend the knee .

Rep. David Joyce (R-OH) declined to denounce former President Trump for suggesting the termination of the Constitutions election provisions over unfounded claims of mass electoral fraud in 2020, The Hill reports.

Said Joyce: He says a lot of things. You have to take him in context I cant be really chasing every one of these crazy statements that come out about from any of these candidates that come out.

However, he added: I will support whoever the Republican nominee is.

[btomba_77]

[link=https://twitter.com/ronfilipkowski/status/1619043904405540864?s=46&t=SjP74csdlW71pXBhk8i2nA]https://twitter.com/ronfi…SjP74csdlW71pXBhk8i2nA[/link]

Trump will build an impenetrable dome to protect the US from WW3

Trump says that since Biden has forced Putin to threaten nuclear war, he will build an “impenetrable dome” to protect the US from missile attacks: “WW3 would make WWI and WWII look like very small battles.” pic.twitter.com/N4BGEbhYcr

— Ron Filipkowski (@RonFilipkowski) January 27, 2023

[btomba_77]

[link=https://twitter.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1699857958555820418]https://twitter.com/RpsAg…us/1699857958555820418[/link]
 
In our nations 246-year history, there has never been an individual who is a greater threat to our republic than Donald Trump.”
 
-Former VP Dick Cheney
 

[100574]

United Technologies profits from moving its Carrier unit to Mexico–it is also a large military contractor.. The Carrier deal per wiki was forcible
 

Quote from dergon

Quote from sentinel lymph node

but Indianapolis Trump supporters said Trump would called and magic would happen–we keep these jobs here
-Truth:-Carrier says it will continue to relocate 1,400 workers to Mexico( would not see if they speed the process up to be done prior to Trump’s inauguration)

Quote from macrophallus

How many Presidents actually deliver everything they promise on the campaign?? Zero.

I don’t think his supporters actually expect everything he promised to happen.

I think that Trump v. Carrier will be a very telling erly showdown of the Trump Presidency.

[link=http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/13/business/economy/can-trump-save-their-jobs-theyre-counting-on-it.html]
Can Trump Save Their Jobs? Theyre Counting on It[/link]  

Carriers decision to move the factory to Monterrey, Mexico, will eliminate 1,400 jobs by 2019. Mr. Trump quickly made the factory Exhibit A in his argument against the trade policies of Republicans and Democrats alike.

He cited Carrier again and again on the campaign trail, threatening to phone executives at the company and its parent, United Technologies, and to hit them with 35 percent tariffs on any furnaces and air-conditioners they imported from Mexico. To the cheers of his supporters, he predicted at rallies that Carrier would call him up as president and say, Sir, weve decided to stay in the United States.

Carrier isnt changing its plans. On Friday in a written statement, the company said, We are making every effort to ease the transition for our Carrier colleagues in Indiana. The company pointed out that it will finance four-year retraining and educational programs for employees and provide financial help.

For Mr. Trump, now comes the hard part. In interviews in recent days and in March, Trump voters here made clear that if he does not follow through on his promises, they are prepared to turn on him, just as they are seemingly punishing Democrats today for not delivering the hope and change voters sought from President Obama after he won as an outsider in 2008.

What can/will Trump do stop Carrier?  Will he get support in the form of some protectionist legislation from a GOP congress? (unlikely) … Will he be able to use “the art of the deal” and cajole/pressure Carrier?  

I’m doubtful that, beyond infrastructure spending, the GOP congress is going to be particularly amenable to any actual populist action helpful to the working class on the part of President Trump.

The working class is likely to get one of the biggest bait-and-switch maneuvers ever seen.  Carrier will probably be a microcosm of that.

[100574]

Pence going to court to keep his own emails private

[kaldridgewv2211]

The whole trade thing swings both ways. He will find that out soon enough if he decides to go bonkers with tariffs etc…

I would like to see some kind of a harder stance of China. They are thiefs of IP and should be treated as such. Logos, technology like cellphone, cars, entire brands. You name it they steal it all. I think I saw something about Trump winning a trademark suit in China.

[kaldridgewv2211]

Quote from macrophallus

How many Presidents actually deliver everything they promise on the campaign?? Zero.

I don’t think his supporters actually expect everything he promised to happen.

speaking of delivering, as I recall Obama started off with a democratic congress and he got nothing done.  So we’ll have to see what exactly Trump can deliver.
 
Day 1 he can deliver in squashing Obama executive orders.

[aryfa_995]

That site is posting made up figures from Twitter, sorry.

[100574]

#notmyPresident hashtag on Twitter
also Comey-President elect

[kayla.meyer_144]

???Nothing done???
 
You need memory pills.
 
Stimulus, Detroit bailout, ACA for a start. Pretty effin substantial, all those losers in auto-land who voted for Trump probably owed their living and what’s left of the economy to Obama. The republicans just wanted to trash the whole auto industry & export the industry to non-American companies.
 
And people wonder how the jobs went to China? Just ask the Republicans.
 
Idiots.

[aryfa_995]

Obama did get little done initially because he thought he farted rainbows and could **~~work across party lines**~~ so he courted GOP votes for little to no reason.
 
GOP is way too smart to waste time talking to dems.

[kayla.meyer_144]

And Dems and pundits who believe the Republicans will try to work across the aisle now have learned nothing about the past 8 years.
 
Interesting in that cigar/F ager/Falala all believed Trump was going to blow up the Establishment Republicans, instead he’s hiring them. Best prediction everrrrr.

[aryfa_995]

Quite cunning of the GOP. Running circles around the dems, who have been asleep at the wheel since 11/9/2008.
 
If they lose a couple more state legislatures GOP can start passing constitutional amendments via conventions! 

[mpezeshkirad_710]

Quote from MISTRAD

I have to say…this is the craziest thing I have ever lived through in my lifetime.

God help us all. 

Greatest 8 years of American history coming up

[100574]

agree–no time for Vets on veteran’s Day
Pence will be working
LAPD says they will not participate with Trump’s deportation–we have prison overcrowding issues to begin with and a melting pot–will not crowd the jails with this junk or with people who protest peacefully
also think CA is getting ready should any fed raid start to occur with respect to cannabis passage and medical cannabis due to some law and order Trump AG

Quote from Frumious

Quote from macrophallus

I bet Trump works like a dog (20 hr days) – he will win the respect of many hardworking Americans through his work ethic and dedication to his job. This is why it’s worth letting an outsider from the private sector give it a shot. I hope career politicians are a thing of the past, those lazy scumbags. They waste our hard earned tax money and do nothing of value, spending their time in the golf course.

Bet not.

[aryfa_995]

Apparently Trump wants to get security clearances for all his children, who he said would run the family “blind trust.” Jesus, talk about amateur hour. 

[Unknown Member]

“I bet Trump works like a dog (20 hr days) – he will win the respect of many hardworking Americans through his work ethic and dedication to his job. This is why it’s worth letting an outsider from the private sector give it a shot. I hope career politicians are a thing of the past, those lazy scumbags. They waste our hard earned tax money and do nothing of value, spending their time in the golf course.”

Macrophallus, I gotta say, you’re a believer, and that’s OK. WSJ just had it the other day that Trump didn’t realize how much work is involved in being president, when he met with Obama he had no idea he’ll have to hire all new white house staff, etc. Look to Trump to be stressed out and not having a good 4 yrs at all.

I didn’t vote for him but of course I want him to be successful for the sake of my adopted country. But I don’t have any illusion that he is in any way prepared for the tsunami that’s about to hit him.

[Unknown Member]

Well, if he is not up for the task he should be done in 4 years anyway. I’m perhaps too optimistic by nature……

[Unknown Member]

A lot of the stuff I’m been reading suggest he really hates doctors. I don’t think the rust belt voters who gave him the election are too keen on doctors hospitals or drug companies

I don’t know what expect from him, he said a lot during the process, what he meant or didn’t mean is anyone’s guess right now
 
I am going to start playing some inflation hedges but other than that Im holding cash for a while at least.
 
Next few months could be a really good time to add commercial real estate to your portfolio
 
 

[jquinones8812_854]

Quote from DICOM_Dan

I don’t see any direct way to get money from them other than through tariffs.  I would like to see him take some steps that might have a more immediate impact.  Maybe use some of the advanced drones we have to patrol and then direct resources to catch people sneaking over the border.  There must be known places people are coming across illegally.  

Not that it’s the end all to opioid addiction but I do think it’s a step in the right direction to try and stop drugs from coming over by all means necessary.  Way to many times are people overdosing and killing themselves, or getting saved by narcan just to do it again.

Newt Gingrich already said it isn’t happening. 

[kayla.meyer_144]

One by one the promises are eliminated. The Establishment stands, only a bit further to the Right & the supporters will be lucky to get as much as status quo.

[jquinones8812_854]

Quote from Frumious

One by one the promises are eliminated. The Establishment stands, only a bit further to the Right & the supporters will be lucky to get as much as status quo.

True. 
 
That said, Trump will definitely disrupt the system far more than Obama or Hillary could have…for better, and for worse. 

[100574]

the media ignored this prior article and Donald never refuted it
=> Vanity Fair:-After the gold rush by by Marie Brenner:
Donald Trump appears to take aspects of his German heritage seriously.  John Walters works for the Trump Organization and when he visits Donald in his office, Ivana told a friend,he clicks his heels and says. “Heil  Hitler”, possibly as a family joke.

[kaldridgewv2211]

The internet shall provide the comedy.

Newest hashtag #PresidentTrumps1stTantrum

“Febrauary is now orange history month”

“LEGO turns out to be the lowest bidder for the wall contract”

[link=http://www.someecards.com/news/politics/president-trumps-first-tantrum-tweets/]http://www.someecards.com…-first-tantrum-tweets/[/link]

[100574]

little Stevie

[kayla.meyer_144]

What kind of Bozos is the Trump team hiring? They have 4,000 positions to fill. That’s a lot of Bozos.
 

One member of the transition team said that at least one reason Mr. Rogers had fallen out of favor among Mr. Trumps advisers was that, as chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, he had overseen a report about the 2012 attacks on the American diplomatic compound in Benghazi, Libya, which concluded that the Obama administration had not intentionally misled the public about the events there. That report echoed the findings of numerous other government investigations into the episode.

The reports conclusions were at odds with the campaign position of Mr. Trump, who repeatedly blamed Hillary Clinton, his Democratic opponent and the secretary of state during the attacks, for the resulting deaths of four Americans.

Eliot A. Cohen, a former State Department official who had criticized Mr. Trump during the campaign but said after his election that he would keep an open mind about advising him, said Tuesday on Twitter that he had changed his opinion. After speaking to the transition team, he wrote, he had changed my recommendation: stay away.

He added: Theyre angry, arrogant, screaming you LOST! Will be ugly.

Mr. Cohen, a conservative Republican who served under President George W. Bush, said Trump transition officials had excoriated him after he offered some names of people who might serve in the new administration, but only if they felt departments were led by credible people.

They think of these jobs as lollipops, Mr. Cohen said in an interview.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Actually winning might be the very last thing DT ever wanted. All he wanted was the adulation and another avenue for making money. Now he’s supposed to run the country & foreign affairs.
 
Schadenfreude! Except we’re all flucked too.
 
Go team Robespierre!

[kaldridgewv2211]

like that someone is starting a don’t do business with businesses that support Trump.  #1 on the list Amazon.com who carries Trump clothes.  Let’s see if Trump hate can stop people from using Amazon, I kind of doubt it.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Why penalize Amazon? Trump already said he’s going after Bezos. Being on Trump’s Enemies List is a good thing.
 
I won’t be buying any Trump clothes from Amazon or anywhere else. Besides, they’re made in China, no American made threads.
 
 

[kaldridgewv2211]

It’s a crazy liberal fad.  Like idiots burning New Balance shoes.  There’s a national temper tantrum going on and Amazon was on the don’t spend money here list.  Like I say, good luck trying to get people to stop using Amazon.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Looks like 1 person behind the hashtag, not exactly a liberal movement or fad near equal to Bannon’s hate or craziness.
 
 

[aryfa_995]

The only temper tantrums going on are in Trump Tower.

[alyaa.rifaie_129]

The tantrums were also going  on w Hillary on election night. The reports indicate that is why Podesta came and spoke.

[100574]

will You HRC hater just move on–give it a rest–it is so pathetic that u always have to fall back on her–look for the future

Quote from Ixrayu

The tantrums were also going  on w Hillary on election night. The reports indicate that is why Podesta came and spoke.

[kayla.meyer_144]

So what anyway. Hillary voters are not happy & showing it. Hillary won over 1 million votes more than Donald. Yes, yes, yes I know, the college determines but still sour milk to swallow.
 
Founding fathers worried that the small states would have no say being swamped by the large states the likes of Virginia. Wouldn’t they be surprised to know that nowadays the tail wags the dog.

[henriqueabreu]

Small states already have equal representation relative to larger states in the Senate.  The Electoral College is outdated.

[ruszja]

Quote from hey

Small states already have equal representation relative to larger states in the Senate.  The Electoral College is outdated.

Had the tables been turned with a close Hillary victory you would claim that it is the best thing since sliced bread.

The electoral college is a reflection of the federal nature of the country. No more, no less.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Quote from fw

Quote from hey

Small states already have equal representation relative to larger states in the Senate.  The Electoral College is outdated.

Had the tables been turned with a close Hillary victory you would claim that it is the best thing since sliced bread.

The electoral college is a reflection of the federal nature of the country. No more, no less.

No. Exactly no. Where do you make this stuff up? Fox & Breitbart? Not surprised.
 
Had the tables been turned it is your side, Trump and Republicans who would have been complaining about the system being rigged. If your memory serves you might actually recall that Trump was calling the election rigged on the assumption that he was going to lose. Now it is twice that Republicans are praising the Electoral College as the greatest thing since sliced bread.

[aryfa_995]

We would be seeing alt right/Teabagger protests everywhere if we had the opposite outcome. And the media and talking heads would call them protesters and patriots instead of whiners and unemployed losers.

[ruszja]

Quote from Frumious

Quote from fw

Had the tables been turned with a close Hillary victory you would claim that it is the best thing since sliced bread.

The electoral college is a reflection of the federal nature of the country. No more, no less.

No. Exactly no. Where do you make this stuff up? Fox & Breitbart? Not surprised.

 
As we didn’t have that outcome, my statement is necessarily speculative. I have no doubt that had Trump won the popular vote and Hillary won with a narrow margin in the electoral college, the same people who now rag on the institution would be saying ‘well that’s the law and it is intended that way’.
 
The electoral college exists in this way not because the founders were bad at math and couldn’t do fractions (to account for slaves). Had they intended to elect the president by popular vote, they would have set up a system where each states elector brings a number of certified votes to the table. But no, that’s not what they did.
 
[i]Each State shall appoint, [u]in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct[/u], a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.[/i]
 
They set it up for the president to be elected by the states and specifically  left it up to the state to allocate their electors any way they deem fit. That’s why Maine and Nebraska allocate electors by congressional district and most other states use winner take all.
 

Had the tables been turned it is your side, Trump and Republicans who would have been complaining about the system being rigged.

 
Oh sure they would have complained. They are subject to the same situational ethics as democrats. It’s always different if its your ox that is being gored.
 
For the likelihood of either outcome, it’s instructive to look at the violent response to the election from the left. For months, there has been hand-wringing about the violence Trump supporters would surely unleash if their candidate lost. Instead we see undemocratic disorder across the country from liberals who can’t accept how the system works.
 
 
 

[kayla.meyer_144]

The sad fact is that due to the distortion of the Electoral College, the minority party owns the government while the majority party is in the minority.

[ruszja]

Quote from Frumious

The sad fact is that due to the distortion of the Electoral College, the minority party owns the government while the majority party is in the minority.

68 out of 99 legislative chambers at the state level are republican controlled, 34 of 55 governors are republican, the house and the Senate are republican. What ‘majority party’ are you talking about?

[100574]

Trump told the rich at 21 club–we will get your taxes down –don’t worry

[tdetlie_105]

Quote from sentinel lymph node

Trump told the rich at 21 club–we will get your taxes down –don’t worry

 
are we considered “rich” or “upper middle class”?

[henriqueabreu]

fw- ever hear of gerrymandering?

[ruszja]

Quote from hey

fw- ever hear of gerrymandering?

 
Look at what happened to the Maryland congressional district map once the dems were in power.  A good illustration that there is no difference between the crooks when it comes to that.

[jquinones8812_854]

Quote from fw

Quote from hey

fw- ever hear of gerrymandering?

Look at what happened to the Maryland congressional district map once the dems were in power.  A good illustration that there is no difference between the crooks when it comes to that.

 
There are several studies showing that if we ended gerrymandering across the country, the Democrats would likely only pick up 5-10 seats, because of their heavy gerrymandering in blue states like CA and NY. 
 
It isn’t as big a problem as many liberals like it to be. I personally prefer a nonpartisan approach to it, but it would change control of Congress. 

[ruszja]

Quote from MISTRAD

Quote from fw

Quote from hey

fw- ever hear of gerrymandering?

Look at what happened to the Maryland congressional district map once the dems were in power.  A good illustration that there is no difference between the crooks when it comes to that.

There are several studies showing that if we ended gerrymandering across the country, the Democrats would likely only pick up 5-10 seats, because of their heavy gerrymandering in blue states like CA and NY. 

It isn’t as big a problem as many liberals like it to be. I personally prefer a nonpartisan approach to it, but it would change control of Congress. 

Yup, there would be a bunch of unemployed inner city democratic reps if the districts were drawn without them receiving ‘protection’. And that includes many red states.

There is no. ‘nonpartisan’ approach. I am for an agnostic computer algorithm. Rank the states cities by size, and plant seeds until you run out of seats. Then grow the seed with census tracts untiil you have equal districts. Cities over 1mil get sectored and receive two seats. Everyone has to run in city and suburbs.

[kayla.meyer_144]

I’d like to see that analysis. It might be true but it also smellls too pat. If it sounds too pat to be true it just might not be. Truth is there are many ways to skin a cat & yes, some algorithms might still favor GOP even though most voters seem Democratic. But some algorithms I think would reflect this minority’s/majority.

[kayla.meyer_144]

From New Yorker but does that make it inaccurate? Even if he did mispredict 2016.
 
[link=http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/gerrymandering-made-impossible-democrats-win-house]http://www.newyorker.com/…le-democrats-win-house[/link]

Although gerrymandering is usually thought of as a bipartisan offense, the outcome in 2012 was highly anomalous: only once since the Second World War did the party that lost the House popular vote end up with control of the chamber. I have previously calculated that, if districting across the country had followed less cynical, normal practices, the seat breakdown would have been approximately two hundred and fifteen Democrats and two hundred and twenty Republicans, a closely divided caucus. Republicans might still have a small majority because of patterns of population clustering, in which heavily Democratic constituencies tend to be clustered in densely populated areas; in any event, with the current arrangement of districts, regaining control is out of Democrats reach.

 
 

[ruszja]

Quote from Frumious

From New Yorker but does that make it inaccurate? Even if he did mispredict 2016.

 
The writer confuses ‘not what I wished for’ with ‘highly anomalous’.
 
All these analyses that try to use the ‘partisanship index’ and normal distributions dont account for the fact that voters do change their mind. And as history shows, frequently as an administration trudges along, more and more voters favor whoever the other side is. Redistricting or not, there can be an increase in support for republicans. I know this is disappointing to believers in the mysterium, but for the time being you’ll just have to put up with what the Trumpists come up with. Not to worry, in 2018 congress will move to split chambers and we will be back to gridlock as usual.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Or they got it wrong in the 1st place. Voters might change their mind or the polls don’t reach them or some just don’t vote at all leaving the decision to those who vote.
 
As for “disappointing” and having to live with the Trumpists, I’m probably a bit older than you & experienced in “not what I wished for.” The real question is what kind of mess will be left over to clean up. We’re still cleaning up Iraq & Afghanistan for instance. Things could make that look like the high point of GOP policy. Then it could be “not what I wished for” on your lips.
 
 

[100574]

NC governor is whining and refusing to concede–look I know u felt the GOP owed u because u closed so many early vote booths to suppress the black vote but to play devil’s advocate u can only Comey so many elections–like u and Kelly lost–I mean like gee whiz can only fix so many results–some one has to go down-

[kayla.meyer_144]

Tweety backs off on putting Hillary in prison and appointing a Special Prosecutor to create another unending GOP investigation of a Democrat. (Chaffetz will be worried he’ll have nothing to do his next term. His next election will show pics of him with Hillary & Obama in a show of support.)
 
I dont want to hurt the Clintons, I really dont, Mr. Trump said during the interview. She went through a lot and suffered greatly in many different ways, and I am not looking to hurt them at all. The campaign was vicious.
 
Supporters are spastic with anger.
 
Suddenly Trump thinks Climate Change [i]might[/i] be a reality, he has an “open mind”; doesn’t think torture really does work; suddenly did disavow white supremacists, and Hillary’s prosecution and other positions, many of the reasons voters in the economic depressed States elected Trump.
 
Does it matter at all what politicians say? Truth or lie or just political expedient, does it matter?

[tdetlie_105]

Quote from Frumious

Tweety backs off on putting Hillary in prison and appointing a Special Prosecutor to create another unending GOP investigation of a Democrat. (Chaffetz will be worried he’ll have nothing to do his next term. His next election will show pics of him with Hillary & Obama in a show of support.)

I dont want to hurt the Clintons, I really dont, Mr. Trump said during the interview. She went through a lot and suffered greatly in many different ways, and I am not looking to hurt them at all. The campaign was vicious.

Supporters are spastic with anger.

Suddenly Trump thinks Climate Change [i]might[/i] be a reality, he has an “open mind”; doesn’t think torture really does work; suddenly did disavow white supremacists, and Hillary’s prosecution and other positions, many of the reasons voters in the economic depressed States elected Trump.

Does it matter at all what politicians say? Truth or lie or just political expedient, does it matter?

 
Maybe it matters when they say it-while campaigning versus governing?….either way, think its wise not to encourage further investigation into Clinton.  Whatever her crimes may or may not be, think losing this election to him is plenty of punishment, post-election she has not been looking all that well. I do feel badly for her

[kayla.meyer_144]

Read Trump’s books where he essentially brags that you tell the audience what they want to hear, a message that can change on a dime within 5 minutes or even in the next adjacent paragraph. Based on Trump’s recent behavior meeting with Obama and the NY Times editors and his re-positioning about Hillary’s corruption and climate change, torture, etc all shows his opinion changes based on the most recent audience, who they are & what they want to hear.

[henriqueabreu]

Classic Con Man. It’s true that most (all?) politicians do this to a certain extent, he takes it to the extreme. And how unabashedly unashamed and in-your-face Trump is about admitting this behavior, is beyond cringeworthy.

[100574]

I am neither
but I am glad Californian’s voted to keep tax on people who make 250,000 and over( it was suppose to be temporary)–like the rich people would be getting a federal and state candy gift
CA learned from Arnold –I almost feel that the medical cannabis bizness kept the coffers from running dry during that time
kinda wonder if Arkansas has studied CA and passed medical cannabis just in case fed money gets cut and the state has to make up for the loss
the bankers are like this is Reagan at the beginning–we are going to raid the candy store ( those suckers ) prior to as we know the 80’s ended with a crash due to greed

Quote from jd4540

Quote from sentinel lymph node

Trump told the rich at 21 club–we will get your taxes down –don’t worry

are we considered “rich” or “upper middle class”?

[tdetlie_105]

Quote from sentinel lymph node

I am neither
but I am glad Californian’s voted to keep tax on people who make 250,000 and over( it was suppose to be temporary)–like the rich people would be getting a federal and state candy gift
CA learned from Arnold –I almost feel that the medical cannabis bizness kept the coffers from running dry during that time
kinda wonder if Arkansas has studied CA and passed medical cannabis just in case fed money gets cut and the state has to make up for the loss
the bankers are like this is Reagan at the beginning–we are going to raid the candy store ( those suckers ) prior to as we know the 80’s ended with a crash due to greed

Quote from jd4540

Quote from sentinel lymph node

Trump told the rich at 21 club–we will get your taxes down –don’t worry

are we considered “rich” or “upper middle class”?

I think most rads are top 5% in terms of income for the US

[ruszja]

Quote from sentinel lymph node

Trump told the rich at 21 club–we will get your taxes down –don’t worry

 
You mean when he went out to get a burger and the press got the vapours because they weren’t told beforehand ?

[100574]

do people really go to the 21 club for the food–do your research—

Quote from fw

Quote from sentinel lymph node

Trump told the rich at 21 club–we will get your taxes down –don’t worry

You mean when he went out to get a burger and the press got the vapours because they weren’t told beforehand ?

[ruszja]

Quote from sentinel lymph node

do people really go to the 21 club for the food–do your research—

 
It’s not my kind of place, but for this Bloomberg writer it qualifies as a ‘fancy dinner’:
 
[i]I’m not a regular at [link=http://www.21club.com/web/onyc/21_club.jsp]21 Club[/link] (pricey place) but my first editor at Bloomberg News has a tradition of taking me and three other reporters out to a fancy dinner once a year.[/i]
 
[link=http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-11-16/when-trump-went-to-21-club-for-a-burger-i-sat-at-the-next-table]http://www.bloomberg.com/…-sat-at-the-next-table[/link]
 
It’s not the Bohemian Grove. Sometimes folks just want to get a burger.

[100574]

well if Trump has time to file lawsuits then he is saying he has time to show up in court

[100574]

people will be watching should DC federal funding go down as he pursues his case

[100574]

so Trump sends out ?incorrect tweet concerning Ford/Kentucky===maybe trying to save face on the Carrier deal

[Unknown Member]

Trump seems to be doing and saying all of the right things. He has made some very good choices. I think that he’s going to be good for the country. At this point, I’m happy to have voted for him. The markets appear to agree.

[100574]

Trump refiles lawsuit against DC to release tax on hotel and request a refund on the tax they already paid—ok folks

[kayla.meyer_144]

I’d like to see that analysis. It might be true but it also smellls too pat. If it sounds too pat to be true it just might not be. Truth is there are many ways to skin a cat & yes, some algorithms might still favor GOP even though most voters seem Democratic. But some algorithms I think would reflect this minority/majority more to Dems’s favor.

[100574]

25 mill settlement in Trump U case–? from a guy who never settles

[jquinones8812_854]

Quote from Frumious

I’d like to see that analysis. It might be true but it also smellls too pat. If it sounds too pat to be true it just might not be. Truth is there are many ways to skin a cat & yes, some algorithms might still favor GOP even though most voters seem Democratic. But some algorithms I think would reflect this minority/majority more to Dems’s favor.

 
Here are a couple analyses. 
 
[link=http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2013/10/11/gerrymandering_isnt_to_blame_for_dc_impasse_120300.html]http://www.realclearpolit…dc_impasse_120300.html[/link]
 
[link=http://themonkeycage.org/2012/11/redistricting-does-not-explain-why-house-democrats-got-a-majority-of-the-vote-and-a-minority-of-the-seats/]http://themonkeycage.org/…minority-of-the-seats/[/link]
 
Let us note one other problem: MINORITY CONCENTRATED DISRICTS? That is also gerrymandering…it is gerrymandering to get a minority elected.

So if we were to get rid of gerrymandering…we would at the same time have to get rid of minority dominated districts, and then just have an even distribution of the population. Liberals often forget this aspect of the gerrymandering phenomenon. 
 
 

[ruszja]

Quote from MISTRAD

Let us note one other problem: MINORITY CONCENTRATED DISRICTS? That is also gerrymandering…it is gerrymandering to get a minority elected.

So if we were to get rid of gerrymandering…we would at the same time have to get rid of minority dominated districts, and then just have an even distribution of the population. Liberals often forget this aspect of the gerrymandering phenomenon. 

 
Here are some doozies drawn to secure african american and hispanic represenation in TX. 
[link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_congressional_delegations_from_Texas#/media/File:Texas_US_Congressional_District_18_(since_2013).tif]https://en.wikipedia.org/…ct_18_(since_2013).tif[/link]
[link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_congressional_delegations_from_Texas#/media/File:Texas_US_Congressional_District_33_(since_2013).tif]https://en.wikipedia.org/…ct_33_(since_2013).tif[/link]

Same in Florida:
[link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_congressional_delegations_from_Florida#/media/File:Florida_US_Congressional_District_5_(since_2013).tif]https://en.wikipedia.org/…ict_5_(since_2013).tif[/link]
 
With a nonpartisan geographic approach, none of these people had a shot.
 
And this one is right from the WTF? files (not a minority, just a really bizarre district that includes a highway bridge):
 
[link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_congressional_delegations_from_Maryland#/media/File:Maryland_US_Congressional_District_3_(since_2013).tif]https://en.wikipedia.org/…ict_3_(since_2013).tif[/link]
 
 

[kayla.meyer_144]

First, it always depends on what is the criteria to determine districting. What is the goal?

Second, “everyone does it” is the lazy excuse for corruption all the time, everywhere. Yes, no one Party is as pure as the driven snow but then both are not equal to what the snow looks like in NYC after a day’s worth of rush hour traffic. Always the argument that both sides are equally corrupt is blatantly untrue. Comparing the few areas of Democrat Gerrymandering to the wholesale Republican gerrymandering is a cheap magician’s trick. 100% purity has been a mainstay of our disagreement for years. Like comparing a jaywalker or illegal alien to an actual swindler, all are criminals. All beagles are dogs but not all dogs are beagles.

Democrats live primarily in urban areas, yes. The Structural argument & “wasted votes.” But if that was the be-all truth, Obama would never have been able to win at all & every election would look like 2016’s. Also, since 2004, Republicans have never been able to muster more than 60 million votes & that number has remained statically consistent each election. It is the Democratic vote turnout that has decided elections in spite of gerrymandering. If the problem were merely structural the Democratic turnout would be an interesting anomaly like Gore’s & Clinton’s win in the popular vote but loss of College. But it’s not the norm in elections.

They all do it ignores the evidence before ones eyes. It is not done equally which & just looking at maps and comparing results shows gerrymandering is much more the tool of Republicans.

[link=http://election.princeton.edu/2012/12/30/gerrymanders-part-1-busting-the-both-sides-do-it-myth/]http://election.princeton…both-sides-do-it-myth/[/link]

[ruszja]

Quote from Frumious

 
First, it always depends on what is the criteria to determine districting. What is the goal? 

 
I forgot, gerrymandering is only bad if it benefits a republican. If the goal is to produce a safe democratic district, it’s a-ok I guess.

[eyoab2011_711]

You forget that by creating a single “safe” Democratic district, you remove Dems from toss up districts. There is a huge difference between creating a single district for minority representation then gerrymandering to assure one party controls a majority of districts.

[100574]

Pence got booed at Hamilton–keep up the fight

[Unknown Member]

Fight for what?  Election results are not gonna change.   Really just starting to look bad on all these liberals.

[Unknown Member]

Idk

The president elect who campaigned on being a tough guy……. is now in a twitter fight with some theater geeks

He is pretty darn thin skinned

[Unknown Member]

This is reality TV bull sheet that we have to put up with for 4 years

Obama had his birth questioned for most of his presidency and barely said a word

Trump gets emotionally damaged by some second rate actors

[Unknown Member]

Twitter may well be Trump’s undoing. Maybe Hillary was right about baiting himvon Twitter. This guy is really too freaking thin skinned.

[eyoab2011_711]

What I am saying is that the goals of redistricting are not always inappropriate. Why did the Texas legislature draw district 33 as they did…to ensure minority representation or two pack all traditional Dems to create more safe GOP districts? Maryland 3 contains Annapolis…not exactly a hotbed of minority activity. This is the constant false equivalence of both sides do it when Republicans do something and the vapors when Dems do something (like exercise free speech at a Hamilton play) or the current pay to play corruption already ongoing with PE Trump

[ruszja]

Quote from Thor

What I am saying is that the goals of redistricting are not always inappropriate. Why did the Texas legislature draw district 33 as they did…to ensure minority representation or two pack all traditional Dems to create more safe GOP districts?

That one is hilarious. Gerrymandering creates a district that is 67% Latino and the democrats turn around and install a black guy to represent it. I guess in their little minds any minority will do.

[100574]

Hamilton actors are Americans and they can exercise their free rights just like Trump did with the birther nonsense but this also help distract from having to answer why he settled—one settlement leads to more lawsuits and more opportunities to get a deposition from him
since Pence is head of the transition and may be another cheney he needs to hear the voices of all

Quote from kpack123

This is reality TV bull sheet that we have to put up with for 4 years

Obama had his birth questioned for most of his presidency and barely said a word

Trump gets emotionally damaged by some second rate actors

[100574]

so he got upset by a bunch of snowflakes in the audience
–snowflakes get into formation and march–embrace your FREE SPEECH rights 
 
we snowflakes condense around a common belief that all men are created equal-then we branch out to encircle the nation to denounce HAte and promote equality for all.

[100574]

is Pence on the phone with Carrier–no he is going to see Hamilton and attempting to block release of his emails–

[kayla.meyer_144]

Quote from fw

Quote from Frumious

 
First, it always depends on what is the criteria to determine districting. What is the goal? 

I forgot, gerrymandering is only bad if it benefits a republican. If the goal is to produce a safe democratic district, it’s a-ok I guess.

Nice and safe having a discussion with yourself where you always win, regardless of the facts.
 
Other than you, who is talking about creating safe Democratic districts.
 
The question is when designing a fair algorithm, what is fair? Is it population and voters or geography? Packed districts are the problem. The goal should be competitive races not safe ones. No incumbent should always feel perfectly safe as so many do now. Safe politicians are politicians who do nothing constructive.

[ruszja]

Quote from Frumious

Nice and safe having a discussion with yourself where you always win, regardless of the facts.

Other than you, who is talking about creating safe Democratic districts.

 
There are two reasons why these packed democratic districts exist:
– as part of the bargain to get redistricting maps approved
– because it’s the law under the voting rights act
 

The question is when designing a fair algorithm, what is fair? Is it population and voters or geography?

 
That’s all that should count. The algorithm should be completly agnostic to party affiliation or race. Political subdivision borders and after that minimization of border length. Let the chips fall wherever they may. 
 

Packed districts are the problem. The goal should be competitive races not safe ones. No incumbent should always feel perfectly safe as so many do now. Safe politicians are politicians who do nothing constructive.

 
Correct. But even if you keep sticking your fingers in your ears, both parties engage in abuse of the redistricting process.
 
 
Btw. This whole redistricting tangent started when one of your iterations claimed that redistricting is the explanation why DT won the electoral college.  As re-districting doesn’t redraw state boundaries and electoral college votes are allocated by state (with the exception of single seats in ME and NE), that excuse is of course not based in facts but rather emotion.

[kayla.meyer_144]

 
 
I don’t believe Democrats living primarily in urban areas says the whole story that they would lose anyway if gerrymandering was not allowed. I think it is a self-fulfilling argument, the “sour grapes” variety. The patriots “Deflate Gate” argument, that cheating doesn’t matter since the Colts would have lost anyway.
 
Maybe, but if true then why is it necessary to cheat so much?
 
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/01/13/this-is-actually-what-america-would-look-like-without-gerrymandering/]https://www.washingtonpos…ithout-gerrymandering/[/link]

But “community of interest” is an incredibly squishy term. You can define it pretty much however you want. As I wrote in 2014, if you’re a politician in search of a figleaf justification for putting voters from disparate corners of the state into the same congressional district, you can always find one. Communities of interest are a great ideal, but in practice they’re so fuzzy that they open the door to all manner of redistricting shenanigans, as we’ve seen.

The main obstacles to automated redistricting are legal. For starters, the Voting Rights Act mandates that in some states, race needs to be a factor in redistricting to ensure that minority voters are represented in Congress. Again: a nice idea. But there’s a tradeoff: packing all your minority voters into one district diminishes their clout everywhere else. We’ve seen this in the real world in Florida: the 5th District was originally drawn as a majority-minority district by Democrats. But Republicans saw fit to keep it that way in subsequent years, because it gave black voters less power in the surrounding districts.

In the end, the prospect of an open, transparent algorithm drawing districts based on population and compactness may be an improvement upon the status quo, where politicians draw the boundaries that best serve their interests.

 
[link=http://election.princeton.edu/2015/12/08/the-net-effect-of-gerrymandering-in-nine-states-exceeds-that-of-population-clustering-in-all-50-states/]http://election.princeton…ring-in-all-50-states/[/link]
 

It is a commonly believed that the predominant force in partisan asymmetry is population clustering: groups that tilt Democratic are clustered into cities, generating a natural packing effect. A clustering effect certainly exists. However, as of 2012-2014, this effect has become secondary to gerrymandering in a handful of states.

Population clustering and partisan actions are not mutually exclusive. In fact, partisan gerrymandering relies on the fact that voters are not distributed perfectly uniformly. Using this fact, redistricters lasso voters into districts to suit political ends. For this reason, it is easy to mix up the two processes.
 
It is possible to quantify the effects of population clustering and partisan redistricting separately. In my SSRN paper, I estimate that population clustering was responsible for a net shift of 9-10 House seats towards Republicans. The total effect of post-2010 redistricting added a net gain of 11 additional seats for Republicans. (this combines 14 seats in seven GOP-controlled states with 3 seats in two Democrat-controlled states). In other words, partisan redistricting in just seven states created a distortion that exceeded the effects of population clustering in all 50 states combined.

 

[ruszja]

You are making my point. The redistricting effect accounts for a small number of seats. The republicans are up by 44 seats. The senate is not affected by redistricting at all and still republicans are ahead.

Sometimes the dog just doesn’t like the dog food.

[ruszja]

Quote from Thor

You forget that by creating a single “safe” Democratic district, you remove Dems from toss up districts. There is a huge difference between creating a single district for minority representation then gerrymandering to assure one party controls a majority of districts.

 
I am [u]saying this[/u], not forgetting it. Yes, packed districts are bad and should be done away with. But you want to be careful what you ask for. Packed districts are what keeps minority democrats in the south elected. If they had to compete on even ground, nobody would buy what they have to sell. So yes, do away with packed districts, but do away with them in all states, including IL, NY, MD as well.
 
Mistrads point was that the net effect of gerrymandering is not as large as you want it to be. Net, the dems would pick up a couple of seats nationwide, not a landslide. Florida is a good example. They passed a constitutional amendment in 2011 that requires districts to be ‘compact’ and follow political boundaries. This year was the first time that the new map applied. No, the dems didn’t win florida by a landslide. They picked up 1 african american congresswoman (Val Demings), one Puerto Rican in central florida and they managed to bump off John Mica using an asian astroturf candidate. The net result however was a only a single seat pickup, not the +3 they were looking for.
 
 

[kayla.meyer_144]

[align=left]Nice try but several of my “iterations” laid the blame squarely at the feet of the Democratic voters who didn’t show this election because they thought Hillary was a shoo-in, they were just plain lazy & “uninspired” or she was not perfect enough, a traditional right-wing disease & then got their panties in a knot .
 
Yes, gerrymandering is a definite problem. As for “both sides,” yes both sides are not perfect but looking at the redistricting map will show gerrymandering a very large tool of the GOP & less so of the Democrats. So I shop lift & you rob a bank at gunpoint, we are both guilty of being criminals in a pure sense but at slightly different degrees in  realistic sense.
 
[link=http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2013/10/gerrymandering]http://www.economist.com/…2013/10/gerrymandering[/link][/align]

[align=left]The authoritative Cook Political Report produces a Partisan Voting Index for each district, showing how strongly it trends towards its preferred party. In 1995, according to the National Journal article, the Cook report’s average Partisan Voting Index score for Republican-held congressional districts was 6.6. Today, the average is 11.1. Further:

[i]Beyond those averages, the PVI data also show that the share of House Republicans in overwhelmingly safe districts has soared, while the portion in even marginally competitive seats has plummeted. In 1995, 12 House Republicans represented ruby-red districts whose index score leaned toward the GOP by at least 20 points; now 24 represent such districts. In 1995, 25 House Republicans represented districts with a Republican-leaning index score of at least 15; now 61 represent such districts.Conversely, back then, more than two-fifths of the Republican caucus (105 members in all) represented at least somewhat competitive seats with a Republican-leaning index score of 5 points or less. Today only about one-fifth of Republicans (53 in all) represent districts so closely balanced. [/i][/align] [align=left][i] [/i]
Republicans have managed to both make their seats safer, and ensure there are more of them, despite the fact that they lost the overall popular congressional vote.
 
By finding the golden mean. The ideal strategy for elections is to make sure your districts have just enough of a partisan tilt to ensure you’ll almost certainly win them, but not so much that you win them overwhelmingly and waste your votes. Meanwhile, you want to cram the opposition’s voters into districts which they win by overwhelming margins and thus waste their votes. Republicans can make sure their seats are both safer and more numerous by achieving lots of districts where they’re likely to win by a safe but not extravagant margin, say 15-30%. If they pursue this strategy, they should wind up with relatively fewer seats that tilt overwhelmingly Republican. Meanwhile for Democrats, whose votes have been “cracked” or “packed” such that they lose more districts, the districts that they do hold would be more likely to be overwhelmingly Democratic than is the case for Republicans.

And this is what the Republicans’ redistricting appear to have achieved. Of members of congress who won their districts with a margin of 60% or more in 2012, 18 were Republicans, while 29 were Democrats. In the crucial safe-but-not-overwhelming zone, with victory margins between 15% and 30%, Republicans won 92 seats while Democrats won 42. The average margin of victory for Republicans was 28.6%; for Democrats, it was 35.7%.[/align]  
[align=left]

[/align] [align=left] [attachment=0][/align] [align=left]
[/align]  

[Unknown Member]

Yeah, Problem is many people just don’t care
 
The dumming down of america

[kayla.meyer_144]

Quote from kpack123

Yeah, Problem is many people just don’t care

The dumming down of america

Just questioning Trump is proof you are biased against Trump. The proof is the question.
 
Major Garrett chief White House correspondent, CBS News on he Diane Rehms Show this past Friday:
 

I’ll just offer one observation as I dealt with this all the time on the campaign trail meeting Trump supporters. Any fact checking I did for them, or for many of them, was prima facie evidence that I was biased. And that I was wrong. So fact checking Trump was proof, not that he was wrong, but that he was right, and that anyone who would raise a question about the underlying relationship between what he said in the facts was biased.

And therefore, legitimately disregarded from the beginning. So it wasn’t as if there was a conversation about this. It wasn’t as if facts were litigated back and forth. The very raising of a question about the factual basis of a Trump assertion was proof you were wrong and biased. And that is the atmosphere that I found myself existing in as a reporter. And to call it challenging would be an understatement.

 
[link=http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2016-11-18/friday-news-roundup-domestic]http://thedianerehmshow.o…-news-roundup-domestic[/link]
 

[eyoab2011_711]

I think Trump recognizes if he pursues a vendetta against Clinton, he risks the same against him and there are far more fertile targets. As Trump continues to flip and flop through his Presidency there are bound to be other olive branches mixed in with his periods of mania

[kayla.meyer_144]

In the end, Trump just wants to be loved. He needs the admiration.

[Unknown Member]

He’s a smart guy — sensed the extreme anger coming from the hard right and rode that to the WH.  Now he will come back to the middle and win another term in 4 years, since he won’t need the hard right any longer.   

[Unknown Member]

You are definitely optimistic

Hope your right

I’m more worried he is going to twitter himself into starting a nuclear war or doing something spontaneously stupid without thinking

A skunk doesn’t change his stripes

[Unknown Member]

Well he used to be pro-choice and a democrat.  He seems to have lived a pretty liberal big-city lifestyle over the years.  If anything I tend to believe that’s who he really is and this hard right stuff was just for political expediency.  But I guess time will tell.

[henriqueabreu]

Being a narcissist, his main concern is his reputation. If he fails to deliver on his hard right promises (pro life, conservative Supreme Court nominations, anti immigration) and doesn’t sign the bills the republican congress put in front of him, rest assured they will turn on him and find a reason to impeach.

He’s too concerned with being perceived as a success, to go back to his old democrat ways.

[ruszja]

Quote from macrophallus

Well he used to be pro-choice and a democrat.  He seems to have lived a pretty liberal big-city lifestyle over the years.  If anything I tend to believe that’s who he really is and this hard right stuff was just for political expediency.  But I guess time will tell.

 
The current president rode into office as this bipartisan unicorn that would fart rainbows end all wars and set the oppressed in Guantanamo free. Oh, and he was a friend of coal.