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Coronavirus, politicaleconomic discussion
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
Quote from Cubsfan10
If masks truly stopped 65% of all infections then why don’t places without mask mandates have the most cases and deaths? 65% increase in transmission would result in orders of magnitude higher cases and deaths if that was true. We aren’t seeing that.
they do have the most, right? Mississippi just finally did one of the 4th. Florida doesn’t have one. Georgia’s governor tried to forbid mandates. The area of the country that seems to be the hotbed is the southeast.
it seems a combination of things can possibly keep people safer. Wear a mask, socially distance, don’t touch your eyes/mouth/nose, wash your hands well.
All the cases everywhere are coming down now. But, no Georgia doesn’t have the most. Florida doesn’t even have the most per capita. The states who are having their wave now are all pretty close per capita whether they wear masks or not. The point is that if it stops 65% spread, then states that don’t have mask mandates should have WAY higher numbers…not just “in the ballpark” type numbers.
The question that dergon asks is the relevant one. That’s why I keep saying its either that 1) the masks do make a little difference and enough people are just voluntarily wearing them or 2) they don’t make a lick of difference-
Quote from Cubsfan10
The question that dergon asks is the relevant one. That’s why I keep saying its either that 1) the masks do make a little difference and enough people are just voluntarily wearing them or 2) they don’t make a lick of difference
How many times do you need to have this question answered? Its been answered umpteen times now. You arent bothering to read them or prefer to ignore them because they dont support your needs? You even stated masks work. So whats your point other than wasting everyones time & efforts to explain to you?
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Because we actually don’t know?
What’s the answer? How many people are wearing them in voluntarily states and how many people are wearing them in mask mandate states? Whats the statistical difference between the death rate in those states? Is it statistically significant enough to require an entire population to do something? Is the same justification going to be applied when we are asked to stay at home again?
Since these have been answered multiple times before maybe you can tell me. I haven’t seen those answers anywhere so you must have info I don’t have.-
I love being given homework assignments by strangers on the internet
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While this does not happen routinely everyday that I am aware, the public has a persona fear of violence from nutjobs who are militantly against masks. There have been too many stories of retail workers getting attacked verbally or even physically by anti-mask nutjobs.
[link=https://www.wfmz.com/news/area/lehighvalley/police-searching-for-man-accused-of-firing-shots-outside-cigar-store-they-believe-him-to/article_025dafaa-d354-11ea-b918-fb68bdeeced9.html]https://www.wfmz.com/news…b918-fb68bdeeced9.html[/link]
the video:
[link=https://www.mcall.com/news/police/mc-nws-cigar-store-video-20200803-36ypltrbevethl7mgabmvebqwi-story.html]https://www.mcall.com/new…mgabmvebqwi-story.html[/link]
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I do not condone violence, especially over masks.
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No doubt there are plenty of nut jobs around.
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Quote from Cubsfan10
Quote from DICOM_Dan
Quote from Cubsfan10
If masks truly stopped 65% of all infections then why don’t places without mask mandates have the most cases and deaths? 65% increase in transmission would result in orders of magnitude higher cases and deaths if that was true. We aren’t seeing that.
they do have the most, right? Mississippi just finally did one of the 4th. Florida doesn’t have one. Georgia’s governor tried to forbid mandates. The area of the country that seems to be the hotbed is the southeast.
it seems a combination of things can possibly keep people safer. Wear a mask, socially distance, don’t touch your eyes/mouth/nose, wash your hands well.
All the cases everywhere are coming down now. But, no Georgia doesn’t have the most. Florida doesn’t even have the most per capita. The states who are having their wave now are all pretty close per capita whether they wear masks or not. The point is that if it stops 65% spread, then states that don’t have mask mandates should have WAY higher numbers…not just “in the ballpark” type numbers.
The question that dergon asks is the relevant one. That’s why I keep saying its either that 1) the masks do make a little difference and enough people are just voluntarily wearing them or 2) they don’t make a lick of difference
We already know from studies and the numbers, as you state, that they don’t make a lick of a difference.
The hick from French Lick could have told ya that
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Ah, an Executive Ordered tax cut! Just what the ocuntry needs to combat COVID’s effects on the economy. All those unemployed people will cheer the tax cut! All those “essential workers” earning minimum wages of $9 per hour will cheer the tax cut!
Amazing what you can do to alleviate the economic harm of a pandemic just with tax cuts.
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So you would rather give people doing nothing at home free money then give a break to people out there working everyday? I thought covid was a preternatural danger to you? Shouldn’t workers be compensated since they are risking their lives?
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???
You just want to throw people under the bus? Screw them, get a job?Where?
All because why they deserve to be under the bus because they are lazy leeches?
Moral hazard only works as an excuse when there are jobs available.
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Its actually not a tax cut
The plan is basically a pause in paying/collecting
You will still owe the money next April when you file
Total smoke and mirrors
Anyway only congress can institute a tax cut
Basics high school civics
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Jeez, thats even more of a scam.
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Chiro, you’re right about both of those points. I don’t support what Trump did. I want a Congressional tax cut as you’ve mentioned.
Frumi, there are jobs available now unless we shutdown again (hopefully not). There are many stories out there about businesses being unable to hire because their workers were getting more money from the unemployment benefits than when they were working.
[link=https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/2020/06/25/businesses-say-extra-unemployment-money-makes-hard-find-workers/3224316001/]https://www.detroitnews.c…nd-workers/3224316001/[/link]
[link=https://www.winknews.com/2020/07/24/employers-are-having-trouble-hiring-they-blame-the-federal-600-unemployment-bump/]https://www.winknews.com/…600-unemployment-bump/[/link]
[link=https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/24/politics/jobs-congress-unemployment-benefits-600-dollars/index.html]https://www.cnn.com/2020/…600-dollars/index.html[/link]
[link=https://www.npr.org/2020/05/26/861906616/when-returning-to-your-job-means-a-cut-in-pay]https://www.npr.org/2020/…job-means-a-cut-in-pay[/link]
And yeah, able-bodied working age people should work just as you and I do. Otherwise, they are not contributing to society and should not be given the same benefits in return. That’s the “societal contract” we enter in as humans in modern society. If you want to argue that, that’s a different topic.-
College football season on the verge of being cancelled.
Maybe that will wake some of the neckbeards up
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Dan Patrick: “was told an hour ago that the Big 10 and Pac 12 will cancel their football seasons tomorrow… The ACC and the Big 12 are on the fence.. And the SEC is trying to get teams to join them for a season.”
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It would seem to me that 1. if the school is open then they can play and 2. the NFL is playing, what’s the difference and 3. These are college aged, healthy people with a > 99.99% covid survival rate
Am I missing something? I’m actually surprised by this since football brings in so much money for schools.-
Key difference between NCAA and NFL —
players union in pro sports can agree to liability waivers for teams as long as they take appropriate measures to mitigate Covid risk.
The colleges are potentially taking on a huge legal risk for negligence.
And then there’s money …. NFLPA can negotiate increased revenue based on player risk and stipends for players who opt out or who are a high risk.
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Fair enough. I could honestly care less if they play. It’s pretty low down on my list of societal things that need to come back.
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Quote from Cubsfan10
Fair enough. I could honestly care less if they play. It’s pretty low down on my list of societal things that need to come back.
I’m sorry CF but I’m going to have to call you out here. You should say “honestly [i]couldn’t[/i] care less” if you don’t care about something very much.
Grammar police out. Carry on…-
[link=https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/29599225/colorado-state-investigating-alleged-neglect-coronavirus-protocols]https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/29599225/colorado-state-investigating-alleged-neglect-coronavirus-protocols
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[h1][b]Colorado State investigating alleged neglect of coronavirus protocols[/b][/h1]Joyce McConnell, president of [link=https://www.espn.com/college-football/team/_/id/36/colorado-state-rams]Colorado State[/link] University, said Tuesday she was launching an “immediate and objective” investigation into the athletic department following allegations that student-athletes have been intimidated and threatened as leaders sought to disregard COVID-19 protocols.
Coaches, players and sports medicine staff at Colorado State University told ESPN that athletic department leaders are discouraging athletes from being tested for COVID-19, are failing to provide accurate information to local and state health officials and are ignoring guidelines to quarantine athletes who might have been exposed.
Football players have also been told their playing time could be affected by a positive test and an extensive absence due to COVID-19, according to multiple sources.
[/QUOTE]
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[link=https://twitter.com/WalshFreedom]Joe Walsh[/link] [link=https://twitter.com/WalshFreedom]@WalshFreedom[/link]
Pissed off about schools? Blame Trump.
Pissed off about college football? Blame Trump.
Pissed off about 165,000 dead? Blame Trump.
Pissed off about an economy still on its back? Blame Trump.He didnt listen, didnt prepare, didnt lead. He lied. He f*cked up. Blame him.
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Ha
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The issue with college athletes and young adults in general is morbidity not mortality
There are multiple reports of players unable to return to sports for the year due to cardiac complications related to Covid
A 27 year old former college basketball player just dropped dead literal weeks after recovering from Covid. Could be coincidental, but seems reasonable to approach amateur sports with caution in the peak of the pandemic
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How many? What percent?
507 kids have have MIS with 23% having myocarditis (~103). There have been like 400,000 kids diagnosed with covid so 5-10x more than that have probably had it.
You’re talking about 103 / 2,000,000-4,000,000.
Bump it up to young adults? even if the risk is 2-5x more (unknown), you’re talking about something extremely rare. It’s actually so rare, it’s actually not worth even mentioning as a serious risk to not do something.
[link=https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6932e2.htm]https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/.lumes/69/wr/mm6932e2.htm[/link]-
So why are colleges canceling fall sports?
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Same reason we waste so much money on medical imaging. Liability concerns and lack of understanding of risk. Might as well throw in a dose of politics. But I suspect you already know this. Its quite similar to how you constantly ask why the economy is such a mess.
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Frumi you once asked some good questions about why we see what happened in NYC and yet others are suggesting the IFR for SARS-COV2 is low. It would be worth your while to spend some time reading Youyang Gus Twitter feed.
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Looks like Georgias school reopening is an unmitigated disaster. I for one am shocked I tell you
[link=https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/coronavirus-prompts-closing-georgia-high-school-district-over-1k-quarantine-n1236492]https://www.nbcnews.com/n…1k-quarantine-n1236492[/link]
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That’s a stupid story. They all went to school together so of course a lot of the students will have to “quarantine.” It’s the loose association tactic we knew teachers were going to take.
No mention of how many people are actually sick, how many are hospitalized, etc.
Stupid.-
But oh so tantalizing to open.
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Selfish teachers not wanting to die
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They are more likely to die driving into work.
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Are they though?
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Yes. Maybe not if they are over 65 but I doubt few teachers are…
[link=https://www.apmresearchlab.org/covid/deaths-by-race]https://www.apmresearchlab.org/covid/deaths-by-race[/link]
[link=https://www.statista.com/statistics/524322/passenger-vehicle-occupant-deaths-by-age-and-gender-united-states/]https://www.statista.com/statistics/524322/passenger-vehicle-occupant-deaths-by-age-and-gender-united-states/[/link]-
Yeah. Lots of people die in cars.
That’s one of the reasons that US has trillions of dollars of infrastructure dedicated to improving road safety and why there are massive regulations to make cars more safe.
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Okay?
Doesn’t change the fact that the teachers are still more likely to die driving to work everyday than from covid over the course of the year.-
Cant see your link
But 30-35k deaths per year in USA with driving.
We have 5x Covid deaths in not even half of a year.
And your typical teacher has probably cut back on his/her driving 10fold since the pandemic…I know I have
So Im gonna say probably not
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Quote from AngryBirds
Cant see your link
But 30-35k deaths per year in USA with driving.
We have 5x Covid deaths in not even half of a year.
And your typical teacher has probably cut back on his/her driving 10fold since the pandemic…I know I have
So Im gonna say probably not
30% of road fatalities in the US are alcohol related, 5000 or so are motorcycles. Unless you are a drunk motorcyclist, driving to work is very unlikely to get you killed.
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And unless you’re obese or over 80, covid is unlikely to get you killed.
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Good visual tool here. Top 7 counties accounting for a quarter of the Covid deaths are all blue run counties. Not sure why they blame trump for all their deaths. Especially that Cuomo guy.
But hey, personal responsibility was never a key value of the left.
[link=https://www.heritage.org/data-visualizations/public-health/one-percent-of-us-counties-account-for-bulk-of-covid-19-deaths/]https://www.heritage.org/…lk-of-covid-19-deaths/[/link]
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Yeah. I’m sure it has nothing to do with population, density, mass transit, and international airports.
*rolls eyes* -
Quote from dergon
Yeah. I’m sure it has nothing to do with population, density, mass transit, and international airports.
*rolls eyes*
Considering how this has hit rural Hidalgo county in TX and Imperial Co in California, I don’t consider any of these items a good excuse.
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Nursing home deaths are a major part of COVID fatalities. All we have to do is care for them & isolate them from danger. EZ, right?
Maybe not if the nursing home’s first priority is asking, “What’s in it for the investors?, the American way of health. Profits always getting in the way of care.
[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/05/opinion/sunday/coronavirus-nursing-homes-deaths.html]https://www.nytimes.com/2…sing-homes-deaths.html[/link]The facility had a bad safety record, according to the lawsuit, was chronically understaffed, had received citations for failing to carry out basic infection-control programs and, in the months after the coronavirus erupted, its operators did not heed state guidelines for keeping the virus in check. At least 18 residents and one staff member have died from the virus at the nursing home more than at any other nursing home in San Antonio, according to an [link=https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/16/business/nursing-home-safety-trump.html]analysis by The New York Times[/link]; other homes owned by the same company have lost at least 43 more people.
Thats not surprising. Around 40 percent of all coronavirus-related deaths in the United States have been among the staff and residents of nursing homes and other long-term care facilities totaling some 68,000 people.
Those deaths were not inevitable. The novel coronavirus is adept at spreading in congregant living facilities, and older people face an increased risk of contracting and dying from it. But most of the nations nursing homes had months of warning about the coming threat: One of the first coronavirus outbreaks in the country was in a nursing home near Seattle, making it clear that such facilities ought to prepare.
[b]Some [link=https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/07/business/coronavirus-nursing-homes.html]70 percent[/link] of Americas long-term care facilities are run by for-profit companies, including private investment firms. Those companies have squeezed profits out of these facilities by forcing them to skimp on care. As a result, per-patient staffing hours have fallen and staff quality has suffered. A [link=https://www.gao.gov/assets/710/707069.pdf]recent report[/link] from the Government Accountability Office found that almost half of American nursing homes routinely violate infection-control standards, including those involving the isolation of sick residents, and a ProPublica investigation found that roughly [link=https://www.propublica.org/article/nursing-homes-fought-federal-emergency-plan-requirements-for-years-now-theyre-coronavirus-hot-spots]43 percent[/link] of such facilities did not have a legally mandated emergency response plan at the start of this pandemic.[/b]Since the start of the pandemic, the industry has received billions of dollars in emergency aid hundreds of thousands of which has gone to companies with terrible safety records. Rather than focus on improving those records, operators of private nursing homes have deployed an [link=https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/16/business/nursing-home-safety-trump.html]army of lobbyists[/link] to press for even more funding and favorable policies.
Among the most alarming of those policies is [link=https://www.motherjones.com/coronavirus-updates/2020/08/nursing-home-immunity-republicans-mcconnell/]total immunity[/link] from wrongful death and other malpractice lawsuits including those pertaining to the coronavirus from 2019 through at least 2024.Nursing home staffing shortages also need to be addressed. As [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/07/28/nursing-home-workers-now-have-most-dangerous-jobs-america-they-deserve-better/]Mr. Grabowski and others[/link] have noted, certified nursing assistants, who make up the bulk of nursing home workers, have one of the most dangerous jobs in America right now. Their work is more deadly than logging or deep sea fishing more than 700 nursing home workers have died from the coronavirus so far and most earn minimum wage or close to it. As certified nursing assistants get sick or quit, staff shortages are approaching crisis levels.
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So whats your solution Frumi? Maybe we should put the VA in charge? Since the government isnt as corrupt as for profit companies huh? I think its terrible that these companies dont have higher quality care. But I dont think our government does any better. Theres no perfect solution. I personally prefer the free market to control for these low quality places, but unfortunately the way our healthcare system works its anything but a free market.
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I think maybe you have to answer your own question and not me. You are not disputing private ownership of nursing homes for example putting profits over care but you say government is no better. So by your own argument youll have to answer the question, what do we do? If private corporations cant be trusted and government cant be trusted what is your solution?
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Northeastern Univ just dismissed 11 first year students for gathering in a hotel room against the school’s COVID policies & also will not refund tuition of $36,500. They can return in the Spring. The school will provide an expedited appeal hearing.
I think a bit extreme if upheld; it’s a lot of $ & they are 1st year students, so basically still children. That said these children need to realize COVID is not a hoax.
That said, “children” their age go to war & are able to function unlike children.
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Ha! Nah, teenagers in the military still goof off a lot. Thats why they have sergeants to keep them in line.
I agree with you Frumi. This is unnecessarily harsh and possibly fraudulent.
If they want to send the kids home for the semester and tell them that they have to take their classes for the semester online instead, I think that would be OK.
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Quote from Frumious
Northeastern Univ just dismissed 11 first year students for gathering in a hotel room against the school’s COVID policies & also will not refund tuition of $36,500. They can return in the Spring. The school will provide an expedited appeal hearing.
I think a bit extreme if upheld; it’s a lot of $ & they are 1st year students, so basically still children. That said these children need to realize COVID is not a hoax.
That said, “children” their age go to war & are able to function unlike children.
That’s crazy. They could have gone to a person’s house, a restaurant, a store, etc. but they couldn’t gather in a hotel room? For a disease that poses no threat to them? AND the school isn’t going to refund the money! No way that gets upheld. Are colleges fascist dictatorships now? I guess I don’t even know. -
Interesting finding the first mentioning of COVID on AM. This thread started by dergon is one of the earliest.
Also:
[link]https://www.auntminnie.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=600636[/link]
[link]https://www.auntminnie.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=601451[/link]
Quote from Adahn
Current mode of thinking is ‘don’t test, don’t tell’.
Ultimate infection rate estimates range from 20 to 70% with an incubation period estimates ranging from 2 to 28 days. CFR around 2%. 20% needing ICU treatment. Extrapolate up and that’s 1/10th of current US capacity.China is reporting healthcare worker infection rate at over 50% and about 90% of general medical supplies are sourced from there in whole or in part.
The only move I’ve seen locally is to put the n95s on lockdown and get fit testing up to date.
Buckle up.
And of course, jimbo was skeptical about COVID:Quote from Jimboboy
My prediction is that it will go dormant as the weather warms up. There will be a resurgence in autumn but the vaccine will be out by then.
And the earliest thread about COVID was way back in Feb 5.
[link]https://www.auntminnie.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=600046[/link]
A lot of mild concern then.
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Covid deaths are so heavily weighted to those 65 and older, it’s true. And they aren’t going to drive less if they are driving to work.
The links show:
– Covid: 2/100,000 in age < 45, 16.6/100,000 in age 45-54, 39.4/100,000 in 55-64
– Car accidents: 20-60/100,000 from ages 1-64
Plus, I would say most teachers are relatively healthy if they are working so their risk is even less. You can’t just take the total covid deaths.
Basically, dying from either cause is extremely rare and for covid to even be close to car accident deaths shows that and shows the ridiculousness of teachers writing their own obituaries, not wanting to go into work, etc.-
are there any good examples of schools starting back up?
All I’ve seen is negative. UNC is now closing back up after getting clusters in the dorms. I know some secondary and elementary schools have also had to immediately close back up.-
Im sure there are plenty …
In places where there is good testing, the positivity rate is 1-2%, the students arent coming from other places with high rates of infection, and the will and resources exist to mask and social distance….
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Its August
Most schools havent even opened yet
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Day one is way too late.
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Syracuse freshman had a rager in the quad. Now they might be sending everyone home. Selfish.
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
Syracuse freshman had a rager in the quad. Now they might be sending everyone home. Selfish.
Purdue suspend 36 kids who went to an off-campus party.
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Florida cases going down but school opening back up
Dohhhhhh
Looks like they didnt learn their lesson from May/June
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Penn State putting Phi Kappa Psi fraternity under interim suspension.
Combinations of youthful stupidity, youthful belief in personal invulnerability & who knows what they’ve heard at home about COVID being a hoax and/or just a flu.
Some AM posters who are eager to get COVID themselves & for their children should visit some campuses since they can’t seem to find patients from whom to self-infect.-
Turns out I already had it.
Colleges are being harsh because they have to from a political/liability standpoint.
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FWIW since the mask mandate in Ohio my county went from level 2 advisory (nearly level 3) back to level 1. So I’m wondering if masks are working. That being said I still people all the time that are not wearing them. Places like Sheetz are still serving people without masks even though it says required on the door. At work I see a lot of construction hires that will take them off.
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I’ve done so many deep dives on masks it’s ridiculous but I just get flamed on by people on here so I’m not sure why I even try, but it’s just not a “cut and dry” thing.
Masks can stop some droplets (20-95% depending upon the type of mask), so they have a theoretical benefit of stopping covid.
The issue is that there’s really no correlation anywhere of masks actually altering the course of covid spread. The peak rises and falls in a similar pattern everywhere regardless of how harsh their mask mandate is. There is also probably some secondary effect of people being more cautious when a mask mandate is put in place because of fear and concern that helps – but difficult to say the masks actually do from the data.
If you’re indoors in a close space with poor ventilation near several strangers, you likely need a mask. Other situations are less clear.
– Walking from the door to a table in a restaurant
– Going into a gas station by yourself when no one is within 6 feet of you and there is plexiglass and a masked cashier
– Shopping in a big store/mall with no one near you
There’s no indication that they are needed outdoors at all, even in close groups – see crowded beaches, Ozarks party, BLM protests, etc.
It’s become a policy that is an “overshoot” for the majority of instances to cover those few instances where it might help.
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Quote from Cubsfan10
It’s become a policy that is an “overshoot” for the majority of instances to cover those few instances where it might help.
You know what CF. I can’t fault much of what you are saying from a scientific standpoint but because the cost of over shooting on the mask topic is so low it makes sense to me to do it. The problem is it has become a political weapon as much of everything else has.
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Yeah that’s my issue with it. Weaponizing the masks to publicly shame people who don’t wear them outside/when they don’t need to.
I don’t have a problem with the way they are now (wearing them indoors essentially). I just wish people understood that they are not some sort of shield of covid armor and a lot of instances where you wear them don’t matter.
It’s the attitude/political weaponry that annoys me, as you said.
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
FWIW since the mask mandate in Ohio my county went from level 2 advisory (nearly level 3) back to level 1. So I’m wondering if masks are working. That being said I still people all the time that are not wearing them. Places like Sheetz are still serving people without masks even though it says required on the door. At work I see a lot of construction hires that will take them off.
There is some potential insight in this post.
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Imperial county death rate is far lower than national average and blue counties.
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And thats a county that has really terrible healthcare access and quality.
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And a population where the virus is more likely to be truly novel.
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[link=https://www.newsweek.com/pelosi-trump-downplayed-coronavirus-threat-backed-chinatown-visits-1531001]https://www.newsweek.com/…inatown-visits-1531001[/link]
[link=https://www.nydailynews.com/coronavirus/ny-coronavirus-bill-de-blasio-coronavirus-subway-20200305-vmjdxjudbndlrjekashqs3hfou-story.html]https://www.nydailynews.c…kashqs3hfou-story.html[/link]
Feel free to check the dates on those.-
What happens when you have a federal government that knows the risks but doesnt tell the public
Of course Pelosis Chinatown comments were very poor in timing
Of course Deblasios comments on the subway look horrendously bad right now
But when there is no national policy is no one knows what to do
And when the federal leadership knows but doesnt inform
And warn our state and local leaders then we have a national clusterckuckAgain deriliction of duty at the federal level
If you or I failed to inform a pay that they have breast cancer because we didnt want to panic them uhhhhhh wed be sued
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Hahahaha
Had to laugh at jimbos prognostication skills
Funniest thing Ive seen on here in a while
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#BlameTrump
#Orangemanbad-
Thanks but we already know he’s bad for the country, cub.
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Not saying this would happen with Biden, but nothing would be more dangerous to the country than the Left wing ideals like the Green New Deal. That’s a whole level of magnitude higher than any damage covid or Trump could ever hope to accomplish.
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[link=https://www.cbsnews.com/video/why-did-president-trump-speak-to-bob-woodward/]https://www.cbsnews.com/v…speak-to-bob-woodward/[/link]
[link=https://twitter.com/60Minutes/status/1305284657806807041]https://twitter.com/60Min…us/1305284657806807041[/link]
[i]60 Minutes[/i] not good for Trump to put it mildly.
Woodward and the presidential audio.
“Nothing more could have been done” was Trump’s conclusion in August.-
[link=https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-09-15/trump-less-popular-in-michigan-wisconsin-pennsylvania-than-governors?srnd=opinion]Trump Confronts a Blue Wall of Governors
[/link][b]In Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, the president is less popular than the Democratic governor.[/b]
Three crucial states that swung the 2016 election to Donald Trump could also be the hinge that dislodges him in 2020. Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin share many characteristics, from Big Ten football programs to post-industrial small-town [link=https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-09-02/u-s-election-how-will-ambridge-pennsylvania-vote-in-2020?sref=MsfQQ8WD]desolation[/link]. But in this years election they share another attribute: Democratic governors who have worked to mitigate the coronavirus contagion in the face of opposition from Trump and sometimes hysterical attacks from Republican state legislators.
It seems significant, then, that in this era of extreme polarization, each of those governors remains consistently more popular in their respective states than the president.
The most popular among the three is Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer, whose approval/disapproval rating among likely voters is [link=https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2020/09/09/michigan-voters-approve-gretchen-whitmer-handling-pandemic-poll-finds/5750849002/]59% to 38% [/link]in a September [link=https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-09-15/poll]poll[/link]. Whitmer has faced pointed [link=https://www.vox.com/2020/3/27/21197647/governor-michigan-trump-supplies-coronavirus-briefing]attacks[/link] from Trump, right-wing militants [link=https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-05-14/michigan-lockdown-protests-show-how-far-trump-s-followers-will-go?sref=MsfQQ8WD]storming[/link] the state capitol and a Republican-dominated legislature that has aggressively sought to [link=https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/21/politics/michigan-lawsuit-dismisse-whitmer-order/index.html]undermine[/link] her authority, policies and political standing. She has emerged from such battles more popular than she was at the beginning of this year and far more popular than Trump, whose approval/disapproval numbers in the same poll were 44%/53%.…
In Pennsylvania, Governor Tom Wolf has a 55% approval rating and a 38% disapproval rating, according to a [link=https://poll.qu.edu/images/polling/fl/fl09032020_bgic42.pdf]poll[/link] taken in late August and early September. Trump is at 43%/54%. The overall approval rating of each man matches that of his approval rating on his response to coronavirus.
…
Wisconsin Governor Tony Evers is the least popular of the three governors. That might say something about Evers soft style of politics in a hard, ugly era. Or it could be a signal that Wisconsin, which has the highest share of non-Hispanic Whites, 81%, of the three states, remains more committed to Trumpism than its swingy neighbors. According to a [link=https://law.marquette.edu/poll/]poll[/link] taken in late August and early September, Evers has a 51% job approval rating, with 43% disapproving. Trumps numbers are 44% and 54%.
[/QUOTE]
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Scientific explains its reasons for endorsing Biden.
[link=https://www.npr.org/2020/09/17/913881019/scientific-american-breaks-tradition-endorses-a-presidential-candidate]https://www.npr.org/2020/…presidential-candidate[/link]
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[h2][link=https://politicalwire.com/2020/09/17/when-trump-talks-about-the-virus-biden-wins/]When Trump Talks About the Virus, Biden Wins[/link][/h2]
The Biden campaign really couldnt have scripted it better.
In a speech on how he would handle the coronavirus pandemic, Joe Biden accused President Trump of overruling the judgement of government scientists and other public health experts.
Said Biden: I trust vaccines, I trust scientists, but I dont trust Donald Trump.
…
Then, just a few hours later at a White House news conference, Trump contradicted CDC chief Robert Redfield who had testified that a vaccine would almost certainly not be ready before the November election and would not be available to the wider public until late in the summer of 2021.
Said Trump: I think he made a mistake when he said that. Its just incorrect information. And I called him, and he didnt tell me that, and I think he got the message maybe confused.
He added: No, were ready to go immediately as the vaccine is announced, and it could be announced in October. It could be announced a little bit after October. But once we go, were ready.
Trump did exactly what Biden said.
This comes just days after audio tapes of interviews with Bob Woodward show Trump admitting he downplayed the severity of the virus, even though he knew it was deadly.
By the end of the week, more than 200,000 Americans will have died from the coronavirus. Models forecast deaths may reach 400,000 by January.
The polling on Trumps handling of the pandemic is brutal: A new [link=https://navigatorresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Navigating-Coronavirus-Update-09.16.2020.pdf]Navigator Research poll[/link] finds that 61% of Americans believe Trump has given up fighting the virus. And a new [link=https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/poll-majority-adults-don-t-trust-trump-s-comments-covid-n1240080]NBC News/Survey Monkey poll[/link] finds just 26% trust Trump on the issue.
[b]Every day that Trump talks about the virus and dismisses the experts is a very good day for Joe Biden.[/b]
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Hey look another article parroting the 400k deaths by January garbage.
Cool.
Also yes if trump wants to win, he should focus on the economy almost 100%
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1 site is saying possible 400K deaths by Jan. Who else?
Talk about making a molehill into a mountain to distract.-
So the American Nomenclatura wrote the CDC recommendations but CDC gets the criticism and “can we trust the “experts”” questions.
Good setup to undermine reality and non-“alternate facts.”A heavily criticized recommendation from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention last month about who should be tested for the coronavirus was not written by C.D.C. scientists and was posted to the agencys website despite their serious objections, according to several people familiar with the matter as well as internal documents obtained by The New York Times.
The guidance said it was not necessary to test people without symptoms of Covid-19 even if they had been exposed to the virus. It came at a time when public health experts were pushing for more testing rather than less, and administration officials told The Times that the document was a C.D.C. product and had been revised [link=https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/26/us/politics/coronavirus-testing-trump-cdc.html]with input from the agencys director, Dr. Robert Redfield[/link].
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Quote from Frumious
1 site is saying possible 400K deaths by Jan. Who else?
Talk about making a molehill into a mountain to distract.
1 model has published it but it’s been repeated in mainstream news articles multiple times. Heck, I’ve pointed it out in 3 articles on this forum even. -
Quote from Frumious
1 site is saying possible 400K deaths by Jan. Who else?
Talk about making a molehill into a mountain to distract.
I guess I never thought I would see the day when Frumi would agree using the 400K number is turning a mole hill into a mountain.-
this caught my eye. Wynn Resort Vegas had 548 employees test positive and 3 are dead after reopening
[link=https://www.khon2.com/news/national/wynn-resorts-reports-more-than-500-employees-have-tested-positive-for-covid-19/]https://www.khon2.com/news/national/wynn-resorts-reports-more-than-500-employees-have-tested-positive-for-covid-19/[/link]-
Quote from DICOM_Dan
this caught my eye. Wynn Resort Vegas had 548 employees test positive and 3 are dead after reopening
[link=https://www.khon2.com/news/national/wynn-resorts-reports-more-than-500-employees-have-tested-positive-for-covid-19/]https://www.khon2.com/news/national/wynn-resorts-reports-more-than-500-employees-have-tested-positive-for-covid-19/[/link]
Good one to actually read. “98% of the infections were contracted outside of work”. Extensive testing and contact tracing being done with a positive rate of 3.6%. 500,000 guest at the property since reopening and six tested positive. Sounds exactly like what many here wished our government would do.
Oh, and for some reason there is no mention of the “3 are dead” in the article itself.
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Quote from Thread Enhancer
Quote from DICOM_Dan
this caught my eye. Wynn Resort Vegas had 548 employees test positive and 3 are dead after reopening
[link=https://www.khon2.com/news/national/wynn-resorts-reports-more-than-500-employees-have-tested-positive-for-covid-19/]https://www.khon2.com/news/national/wynn-resorts-reports-more-than-500-employees-have-tested-positive-for-covid-19/[/link]
Good one to actually read. “98% of the infections were contracted outside of work”. Extensive testing and contact tracing being done with a positive rate of 3.6%. 500,000 guest at the property since reopening and six tested positive. Sounds exactly like what many here wished our government would do.
Oh, and for some reason there is no mention of the “3 are dead” in the article itself.
“One Las Vegas Strip casino company said Thursday that it tallied 548 positive tests for COVID-19 among its 12,000 employees since May, and three workers have died.”
[link=https://www.staradvertiser.com/2020/09/17/breaking-news/las-vegas-resort-tallies-548-coronavirus-positives-3-worker-deaths/]https://www.staradvertiser.com/2020/09/17/breaking-news/las-vegas-resort-tallies-548-coronavirus-positives-3-worker-deaths/[/link]-
Ill read the entire article and see. I have found reading snippets pasted here can be misleading.
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Quote from Thread Enhancer
Ill read the entire article and see. I have found reading snippets pasted here can be misleading.
I was thrown off by google news as it was the sub-heading which linked to a different article but that quote is the very top of the second one I posted.
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Yes. I read the other one. basically the same but the 3 deaths are reported there. They don’t say where they were infected other than the fact that 98% of infections were outside of work.
The way it reads to me it sounds like the WYNN Resorts are doing a better job than the country as a whole, all the while providing a safe place for people to visit and improve the economic environment for Las Vegas and the state of Nevada.
Is that how you read it? They seem to be doing all of the important mitigation efforts asked for like lots of testing and contact tracing. There infection rates and percentages are low. six gusts infected out of 500,000 visitors. They are also reported to be “open” with their data. Sounds like a WYNN win.
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[link=https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1308793235805007874?s=21]https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1308793235805007874?s=21[/link]
The Randstander is randstanding again…. and Fauci schools him in testimony.
“No, no, you misconstrue that, Senator, and you’ve done that repeatedly in the past.”
“”I challenge that Senator” … “Please sir, I would like to be able to do this, because this happens with Sen. Rand (sic) all the time,” Fauci said as committee chairman Sen. Lamar Alexander, R-Tenn., tried to move proceedings on. “You are not listening to what the director of the CDC said.”
"You misconstrued that, Senator. And you've done that repetitively in the past." -- Fauci is out of patience with Rand Paul pic.twitter.com/6xRoO19ZYL
— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) September 23, 2020
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The video is satisfying to watch.
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Hope Hicks tests positive… been in close proximity to Trump and other advisers in recent days
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[h2][link=https://politicalwire.com/2020/10/02/what-happens-if-the-party-nominees-die/]What Happens If the Party Nominees Die?[/link][/h2]
President Trump tested positive for the novel coronavirus just a couple of days after he spent nearly two hours within 8 to 10 feet of Joe Biden. While Biden hasnt tested positive, it seems certain the presidential campaign will be disrupted regardless with Trump in quarantine.
And if either candidate were to get very sick, it could certainly impact the election.
Not to be grim, but both men are in the high risk category for the disease and are running for the most powerful office in the world, so its worth considering what happens if one or both died or were no longer able to run.
The national parties have rules for such an occurrence, as law professor Richard Pildes told the [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/05/16/what-else-happens-if-us-presidential-candidate-withdraws-or-dies-before-election-is-over-part-2/]Washington Post[/link] earlier this year:
[i]The Democratic National Committee has a clear rule for this situation. The 447 members of the Democratic National Committee, the entity that formally hosts the convention, would choose the new nominee. The DNC chair, currently Tom Perez, is required to consult with the Democratic leadership in Congress and with the Democratic Governors Association. After the consultation, the chair provides a report to the DNC members, who then make the choice.
The Republican National Committees rules are similar. The RNC has 168 members three from each state, plus three from six territories. The RNCs rules provide that the three members from each state cast the same number of votes that their state or territory is entitled to at the convention. So Alaskas three members get to cast a total of 28 votes, for example. If those three members disagree, they each get to cast one-third of those votes.[/i]
[i] [/i]
The parties would then have to replace the name of their candidate on each states ballot with that of the new candidate.But as law professor [link=https://electionlawblog.org/?p=116098]Rick Hasen[/link] points out, thats not so simple:
[i]The problem here is that ballots are already out and hundreds of thousands of people have already voted. At this point it seems impossible for candidates to come up with a new name to replace a name on the ballot without starting the whole election process over, which is not possible in the 30+ days before election day. Congress could pass a bill delaying the election but I find it hard to believe it would do so.
While things are not certain, whats most likely that the election would take place on time with the deceased or incapacitated candidates name on the ballot, and then there would be a question if legislatures would allow presidential electors of each state to vote for someone other than the deceased candidate. Only some state laws provide for this eventuality. Or perhaps the legislatures would seek to appoint electors directly. This could lead to a whole lot of mischief[/i]
In short, it would be a real mess. And quite an October surprise.
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Must be some good drugs Trump is on. On Twitter he announces hes cutting off talks with the dems on stimulus. Wait till after the election. Even if he wins what happens if/when the dems control all of congress. Also making bold claims like we have the best recovery and jobs are coming back at record levels. Stock market is all time high. People are hurting out there and stocks aint helping most people. The fed even said things are getting dicey.
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Never mind 400 point fall post Trump tweet. Hes the orange menace.
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Stephen Miller has it.
Havent heard much about Jared and Ivanka.
Its kind of surprising they dont have Pence wrapped up in bubble wrap and stashed away.
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Stephen Miller has it.
Well, at least we now have confirmed that Covid can jump between species.
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What species is he?
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Non human, cold blooded.
I think hes one of those reptile people Qs talk about.
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[link=https://www.vox.com/2014/11/5/7158371/lizard-people-conspiracy-theory-explainer]https://www.vox.com/2014/…iracy-theory-explainer[/link]
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Quote from Cubsfan10
What species is he?
Bat.-
Quote from fw
Quote from Cubsfan10
What species is he?
Bat.
No. That’s Rudy. Miller certainly reptilian.
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A regular zoo menagerie
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And now for your projection of the day …
[h1][link=https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/10/donald-trump-joe-biden-masks]Donald Trump: Biden Better Take COVID-19 More Seriously or He Might Get It and Infect a Bunch of People[/link][/h1] -
Biden did take it seriously, leaving Trump’s efforts in the dust as Biden on track to reach 100,000,000 vaccines within his projected time period goal.
[link=https://www.politico.com/news/2021/03/18/biden-100-million-covid-vaccinations-476956]https://www.politico.com/…id-vaccinations-476956[/link] -
CDC advises today that only 3 feet of separation is required for students in schools.
[link=https://www.npr.org/2021/03/19/978608714/cdc-says-schools-can-now-space-students-3-feet-apart-rather-than-6]https://www.npr.org/2021/…et-apart-rather-than-6[/link]
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Thanks. Funny reading.
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I assumed he was a vampire but now lizard person makes much more sense.
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[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/04/us/politics/covid-commission.html] Covid-19 Commission Modeled on 9/11 Inquiry Draws Bipartisan Backing
[/link]
A broad, bipartisan group of senators is coalescing around a plan for an independent panel to investigate the origins of the coronavirus and the U.S. response.-
My money says this investigation will be pulled by the Fire-Eaters into politics and strict litmus-paper political interpretation with any Republicans actually looking for answers denigrated as newly minted RINOs.
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Quote from Frumious
My money says this investigation will be pulled by the Fire-Eaters into politics and strict litmus-paper political interpretation with any Republicans actually looking for answers denigrated as newly minted RINOs.
Well… if it’s structured like the 9/11 Comm then the extremists willl be sidelined and it will be a bunch ex-politicos and experts.
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Quote from dergon
Well… if it’s structured like the 9/11 Comm then the extremists willl be sidelined and it will be a bunch ex-politicos and experts.
“If” is the question. Maybe McConnell, maybe not. It all depends on what he sees as a larger threat to his and Republican power. He’s never been shy before to allow the Fire-Eaters to prevail, regardless of anything. The Fire-Eaters still have big sway in how events must be interpreted. Kinzinger & Cheney can testify to that and I have not seen a lot of Republican backbone in the Senate to prove otherwise.
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Quote from dergon
Quote from Frumious
My money says this investigation will be pulled by the Fire-Eaters into politics and strict litmus-paper political interpretation with any Republicans actually looking for answers denigrated as newly minted RINOs.
Well… if it’s structured like the 9/11 Comm then the extremists willl be sidelined and it will be a bunch ex-politicos and experts.
Hope so. It would be nice to see a group of reasonable people, sponsored by our federal government, working together on something. sponsored by our federal government.
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There’s a advatange for both sides in that structure.
For the Right: Even though the GOP base hate Fauci and wants to send him to jail, he is stilll overall a highly respected public figure. McConnell gets to sideline Rand Paul and avoid Republicans looking like petty conspiracy theorists ahead of a mid-term that should allow Mitch to retake power unless they do something stupid.
For Dems/Biden it allows them to say they’re taking action on the origins and also use the commission to prepare for the *next* pandemic to give them a bit of sheen of competence.
