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CNN reporting on document detailing Trumps campaign’s colloboration with Russian operative
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[url=http://time.com/4828306/russian-hacking-election-widespread-private-data/]Election Hackers Actually Altered Voter Rolls[/url]
The hacking of state and local election databases in 2016 was more extensive than previously reported, including at least one successful attempt to alter voter information, and the theft of thousands of voter records that contain private information like partial Social Security numbers, current and former officials tell TIME.
The fact that private data was stolen from states is separately providing investigators a previously unreported line of inquiry in the probes into Russian attempts to influence the election. In Illinois, more than 90% of the nearly 90,000 records stolen by Russian state actors contained drivers license numbers, and a quarter contained the last four digits of voters Social Security numbers, according to Ken Menzel, the General Counsel of the State Board of Elections.
Congressional investigators are probing whether any of this stolen private information made its way to the Trump campaign, two sources familiar with the investigations tell TIME.
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Putin’s puppets, the American voters who voted for Trump.
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/world/national-security/obama-putin-election-hacking]https://www.washingtonpos…putin-election-hacking[/link]But it went further. The intelligence captured Putins specific instructions on the operations audacious objectives defeat or at least damage the Democratic nominee, Hillary Clinton, and help elect her opponent, Donald Trump.
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/intelligence-chiefs-expected-in-new-york-to-brief-trump-on-russian-hacking/2017/01/06/5f591416-d41a-11e6-9cb0-54ab630851e8_story.html]https://www.washingtonpos…4ab630851e8_story.html[/link]The 14-page document made public also serves as an explicit rebuttal to Trumps repeated assertions that U.S. spy agencies cannot determine who was responsible for a hacking operation that extracted thousands of emails from Democratic Party computer networks and dumped them into public view via the WikiLeaks website.
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Blame Trump and supporters? Both sides look pretty bad in this. The article does not bode well for the Obama Administration. Total incompetence.
[i]The CIA breakthrough came at a stage of the presidential campaign when Trump had secured the GOP nomination but was still regarded as a distant long shot. Clinton held comfortable leads in major polls, and Obama expected that he would be transferring power to someone who had served in his Cabinet. [/i]
[i]Suddenly, Obama faced a successor who had praised WikiLeaks and prodded Moscow to steal even more Clinton emails, while dismissing the idea that Russia was any more responsible for the election assault than somebody sitting on their bed that weighs 400 pounds.[/i]
[i]The White House was mortified and shocked, said a former administration official. From national security people there was a sense of immediate introspection, of, Wow, did we mishandle this. [/i]
[i]The operation was described as long-term, taking months to position the implants and requiring maintenance thereafter. Under the rules of covert action, Obamas signature was all that was necessary to set the operation in motion.[/i]
[i]U.S. intelligence agencies do not need further approval from Trump, and officials said that he would have to issue a countermanding order to stop it. The officials said that [b]they have seen no indication that Trump has done so[/b].[/i]
[i]
[/i]-
Gullible Trump supporters who bought the propaganda goods from Trump & Putin & Fox & Wikileaks as directed instead of thinking.
Obama misunderestimated the hostility & gullibility of the voters but it was the voters who did the dumb thing & elected Trump. -
Incompetence, no. Timid, yes. Always been Obama’s problem expecting KUMBAYA from the Republicans & getting spat upon instead.
Here’s an article that reflects my feelings about Obama & the Democrats.
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2017/06/23/how-democratic-timidity-may-have-helped-trump-get-elected]https://www.washingtonpos…lped-trump-get-elected[/link]
Today, Greg Miller, Ellen Nakashima and Adam Entous have [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/world/national-security/obama-putin-election-hacking]a blockbuster behind-the-scenes story[/link] about how the Obama administration handled the Russian effort to manipulate the 2016 presidential election, one that is both shocking and maddening. Reading it, one cant avoid the conclusion that if it had happened during a Republican administration, things would have gone very differently.
What comes through again and again is that the Obama administration was terrified of looking partisan or doing anything that might seem like it was putting a thumb on the scale of the election, and the result was paralysis. This is a manifestation of what [link=http://prospect.org/article/yes-they-can]some years ago[/link] I began calling the Audacity Gap.
Democrats are forever worried about whether they might be criticized, whether Republicans will be mean to them, whether they might look as though theyre being partisan, and whether they might be subjected to a round of stern editorials. Republicans, on the other hand, just dont care. What theyre worried about is winning, and they dont let the kinds of criticism that frightens Democrats impede them. It makes Republicans the party of Yes we can, while Democrats are the party of Maybe we shouldnt.
So as the full scope of the Russian assault on the American election became clear, two things happened again and again. First, whenever the Obama administration would approach Republicans to try to issue some kind of bipartisan condemnation or coordinate efforts to minimize the effects of the attack, the GOP response was essentially, To hell with you, Democrats, after which the administration would slink back and do little or nothing. And second, even when they were deliberating on their own, the administration kept pulling back from responses it might take out of fear that someone might call them partisan.
Democrats have problems recognizing the extremist partisanship and hate developed by Right-wing media against them. They are always asking, “Why do they hate us?” instead of fighting back,
“the punishment must match the injury: a life for a life, [link=http://biblehub.com/exodus/21-24.htm][b]24[/b][/link]an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a hand for a hand, a foot for a foot, [link=http://biblehub.com/exodus/21-25.htm][b]25[/b][/link]a burn for a burn, a wound for a wound, a bruise for a bruise.”
Better yet, 2 eyes for an eye and so on.
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I believe it–that crap in MI–that 80, 000 voted but did not bother to vote for President –in a state with a Governor as popular as the NC defeated Governor
please
President Obama’s hands were tied because people would shout he was trying to sway the election—look at the idiot Trump voters who still believe the birther lie from John Miller–that reporter caught his shenanigans with Marla and he has exemplified the same pattern of behaviorQuote from dergon
[link=http://time.com/4828306/russian-hacking-election-widespread-private-data/]Election Hackers Actually Altered Voter Rolls[/link]
The hacking of state and local election databases in 2016 was more extensive than previously reported, including at least one successful attempt to alter voter information, and the theft of thousands of voter records that contain private information like partial Social Security numbers, current and former officials tell TIME.
The fact that private data was stolen from states is separately providing investigators a previously unreported line of inquiry in the probes into Russian attempts to influence the election. In Illinois, more than 90% of the nearly 90,000 records stolen by Russian state actors contained drivers license numbers, and a quarter contained the last four digits of voters Social Security numbers, according to Ken Menzel, the General Counsel of the State Board of Elections.
Congressional investigators are probing whether any of this stolen private information made its way to the Trump campaign, two sources familiar with the investigations tell TIME.
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That’s exactly the problem, Democrats are worried about appearing too partisan & bending the rules. The result is that Republicans think that is wimpy behavior cheering on a McDonnell who not only bent the rules but broke them in the Supreme Court nomination taken away from Obama. Obama is seen as a wimp even as he tried to select a moderate, proof of his wimpiness to them.
Democrats need stop being timid and to learn to fight like Republicans just not be corrupt like Republicans. Obama won quite a few fights with Republicans but Democrats staying home during elections create the timidity of the Democratic caucus when it comes to standing up & fighting.
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2017/06/23/how-democratic-timidity-may-have-helped-trump-get-elected]https://www.washingtonpos…lped-trump-get-elected[/link]
What comes through again and again is that the Obama administration was terrified of looking partisan or doing anything that might seem like it was putting a thumb on the scale of the election, and the result was paralysis. This is a manifestation of what [link=http://prospect.org/article/yes-they-can]some years ago[/link] I began calling the Audacity Gap.
Democrats are forever worried about whether they might be criticized, whether Republicans will be mean to them, whether they might look as though theyre being partisan, and whether they might be subjected to a round of stern editorials. Republicans, on the other hand, just dont care. What theyre worried about is winning, and they dont let the kinds of criticism that frightens Democrats impede them. It makes Republicans the party of Yes we can, while Democrats are the party of Maybe we shouldnt.
So as the full scope of the Russian assault on the American election became clear, two things happened again and again. First, whenever the Obama administration would approach Republicans to try to issue some kind of bipartisan condemnation or coordinate efforts to minimize the effects of the attack, the GOP response was essentially, To hell with you, Democrats, after which the administration would slink back and do little or nothing. And second, even when they were deliberating on their own, the administration kept pulling back from responses it might take out of fear that someone might call them partisan.
In July, during the Democratic convention, Wikileaks released internal DNC emails and those of John Podesta, who was chairing Hillary Clintons campaign, in an attempt to embarrass them and sow division within the Democratic Party (which turned out to be highly successful). In August, the intelligence services determined that there was a coordinated attack underway and that it was likely being directed by Vladimir Putin himself.
In other words, Republicans acted like partisans, and successfully rolled over Democrats who didnt want to seem like partisans. Within weeks, the administration decided not to take any action against Moscow before the election.
The election was already over, and they were still worried that something as obviously necessary as [i]a bipartisan commission[/i] would be perceived as partisan. Savor that one for a moment.[b] [/b]
[b]Theres no way to know whether the election might have turned out differently if the Obama administration had reacted more aggressively to the Russian assault. What we do know is that once again, Democrats were paralyzed by their worries about how things might look. Its not something Republicans ever concern themselves with and all you have to do is look at whos in charge in Washington to see the results.[/b]
To paraphrase Clausewitz, “Politics is war by other means.”
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the poor turn out is where the Russian robots/media and Comey really had an effect-by constantly bringing up the negative on HRC
the misogyny was really evident with the commercials on the military channel selling a lying HRC doll–like with his tweets and russia there should have been a lying Trump russia doll being advertised on that same channel
this demoralize the dem vote who stayed home or voted third part and the GOP base was inspired to vote
Trump makes no sense when he says Obama should have handled that when he has always said he felt President Obama was a disaster–so let’s turn the JFK lens on Trump and make him reflect ask not what President Obama has done about Russia but what have U done specifically on Russia
Quote from Frumious
That’s exactly the problem, Democrats are worried about appearing too partisan & bending the rules. The result is that Republicans think that is wimpy behavior cheering on a McDonnell who not only bent the rules but broke them in the Supreme Court nomination taken away from Obama. Obama is seen as a wimp even as he tried to select a moderate, proof of his wimpiness to them.
Democrats need stop being timid and to learn to fight like Republicans just not be corrupt like Republicans. Obama won quite a few fights with Republicans but Democrats staying home during elections create the timidity of the Democratic caucus when it comes to standing up & fighting.
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2017/06/23/how-democratic-timidity-may-have-helped-trump-get-elected]https://www.washingtonpos…lped-trump-get-elected[/link]
What comes through again and again is that the Obama administration was terrified of looking partisan or doing anything that might seem like it was putting a thumb on the scale of the election, and the result was paralysis. This is a manifestation of what [link=http://prospect.org/article/yes-they-can]some years ago[/link] I began calling the Audacity Gap.
Democrats are forever worried about whether they might be criticized, whether Republicans will be mean to them, whether they might look as though theyre being partisan, and whether they might be subjected to a round of stern editorials. Republicans, on the other hand, just dont care. What theyre worried about is winning, and they dont let the kinds of criticism that frightens Democrats impede them. It makes Republicans the party of Yes we can, while Democrats are the party of Maybe we shouldnt.
So as the full scope of the Russian assault on the American election became clear, two things happened again and again. First, whenever the Obama administration would approach Republicans to try to issue some kind of bipartisan condemnation or coordinate efforts to minimize the effects of the attack, the GOP response was essentially, To hell with you, Democrats, after which the administration would slink back and do little or nothing. And second, even when they were deliberating on their own, the administration kept pulling back from responses it might take out of fear that someone might call them partisan.
In July, during the Democratic convention, Wikileaks released internal DNC emails and those of John Podesta, who was chairing Hillary Clintons campaign, in an attempt to embarrass them and sow division within the Democratic Party (which turned out to be highly successful). In August, the intelligence services determined that there was a coordinated attack underway and that it was likely being directed by Vladimir Putin himself.
In other words, Republicans acted like partisans, and successfully rolled over Democrats who didnt want to seem like partisans. Within weeks, the administration decided not to take any action against Moscow before the election.
The election was already over, and they were still worried that something as obviously necessary as [i]a bipartisan commission[/i] would be perceived as partisan. Savor that one for a moment.
[b] [/b]
[b]Theres no way to know whether the election might have turned out differently if the Obama administration had reacted more aggressively to the Russian assault. What we do know is that once again, Democrats were paralyzed by their worries about how things might look. Its not something Republicans ever concern themselves with and all you have to do is look at whos in charge in Washington to see the results.[/b]
To paraphrase Clausewitz, “Politics is war by other means.”
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CNN retracts story on meeting w Russian investment fund w ties to Trump. Three journalists leaving.
The jig is up. Remember Mika – it is the media’s job to control your thoughts.
The collusion is an illusion put out by the media. The one that knew was Obama. Do not worry Hillary on her Tour of Blame will be adding Obama to the list as to why she lost for the second time.-
Yawn–the alternative facts believers but fat Serge is going back to Russia
Quote from Ixrayu
CNN retracts story on meeting w Russian investment fund w ties to Trump. Three journalists leaving.
The jig is up. Remember Mika – it is the media’s job to control your thoughts.The collusion is an illusion put out by the media. The one that knew was Obama. Do not worry Hillary on her Tour of Blame will be adding Obama to the list as to why she lost for the second time.
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Jared get a new layer and fat Serge , the Ambassador is going back to Russia
still has another Serg to worry about( VEB–per financial times–are they a bank??????–why meeting with Jared and not initially disclosed)-
Haha SLN, still waiting? Maybe by Christmas? Not.
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Collusion starting to shape up
[link=https://www.lawfareblog.com/time-i-got-recruited-collude-russians]https://www.lawfareblog.c…uited-collude-russians[/link]-
Quote from Nice Guy
Collusion starting to shape up
[link=https://www.lawfareblog.com/time-i-got-recruited-collude-russians]https://www.lawfareblog.c…uited-collude-russians[/link]
Yep:
WSJ follow up:
[url=https://www.wsj.com/articles/gop-activist-who-sought-clinton-emails-cited-trump-campaign-officials-1498872923]Peter W. Smith listed Bannon, Conway and Clovis, besides Flynn, in a recruiting document; his purpose isnt clear and theres no indication he asked for or received any coordination with them[/url]A longtime Republican activist who led an operation hoping to obtain Hillary Clinton emails from hackers listed senior members of the Trump campaign, including some who now serve as top aides in the White House, in a recruitment document for his effort.
The activist, Peter W. Smith, named the officials in a section of the document marked Trump Campaign. The document was dated Sept. 7, 2016. That was around the time Mr. Smith said he started his search for 33,000 emails Mrs. Clinton deleted from the private server she used for official business while secretary of state. She said the deleted emails concerned personal matters. She turned over tens of thousands of other emails to the State Department.
Jonathan Chait: [url=http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/07/now-we-have-a-roadmap-to-trump-campaigns-russia-collusion.html?utm_source=tw&utm_medium=s3&utm_campaign=sharebutton-b]Now We Have a Roadmap to the Trump Campaigns Collusion with Russia[/url]The key to understanding the significance of this {follow-up WSJ} report is to put it together with a sentence from Harriss first story on this in the Journal, which reports that U.S. investigators have examined reports from intelligence agencies that describe Russian hackers discussing how to obtain emails from Mrs. Clintons server and then transmit them to Mr. Flynn via an intermediary.
So, according to Harriss reporting, Russians were trying to transmit emails from Clintons server. Tait is describing in detail a Republican operative trying to obtain stolen emails from Russia. So we have evidence both of the campaigns request and Russian efforts to fulfill the request.
Smith is deceased (at an old age; there is no grounds for suspicion about the cause of his death.) But Michael Flynn, a figure he reportedly worked for, is very much with us, and facing significant legal jeopardy. Flynns lawyer has said he has a story to tell. This might be part of the story.
[/QUOTE]-
What was all that collusion and obstruction of justice?
Still waiting….
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Quote from dontmindme
What was all that collusion and obstruction of justice?
Still waiting….
Now that the Special investigator has the investigation under control the stream of leaks out of the IC has stopped.
The House investigation is worthless.
The Senate investigation [i]may[/i] be getting something but we don’t know because all the good stuff seems to be happening in closed session while the public session portion is useless grandstanding and stonewalling.
Then on the Mueller side …There is no reason to expect formal updates, communication, etc until the special investigator is ready to issue a report …. that probably won’t be until mid to late 2018.
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Here’s a nice little investigative reporting piece ….. just to whet your whistle.
[url=https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/08/us/politics/trump-russia-kushner-manafort.html?_r=0]
Trump Team Met With Lawyer Linked to Kremlin During Campaign[/url][/h1]The previously unreported meeting was also attended by Mr. Trumps campaign chairman at the time, Paul J. Manafort, as well as the presidents son-in-law, Jared Kushner, according to interviews and the documents, which were outlined by people familiar with them.
While President Trump has been dogged by revelations of undisclosed meetings between his associates and Russians, this episode at Trump Tower on June 9, 2016, is the first confirmed private meeting between a Russian national and members of Mr. Trumps inner circle during the campaign. It is also the first time that his son Donald Trump Jr. is known to have been involved in such a meeting.
Representatives of Donald Trump Jr. and Mr. Kushner confirmed the meeting after The Times approached them with information about it. In a statement, Donald Jr. described the meeting as primarily about an adoption program. The statement did not address whether the presidential campaign was discussed.
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Quote from dontmindme
What was all that collusion and obstruction of justice?
Still waiting….
[url=https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/09/us/politics/trump-russia-kushner-manafort.html?action=Click&contentCollection=BreakingNews&contentID=65549760&pgtype=Homepage&_r=0][B]Donald Trump Jr. was promised damaging information about Hillary Clinton before agreeing to meet with a Kremlin-connected Russian lawyer during the 2016 campaign[/B][/url]
President Trumps eldest son, Donald Trump Jr., was promised damaging information about Hillary Clinton before agreeing to meet with a Kremlin-connected Russian lawyer during the 2016 campaign.
The meeting was also attended by his campaign chairman at the time, Paul J. Manafort, and his son-in-law, Jared Kushner The meeting at Trump Tower on June 9, 2016, two weeks after Donald Trump clinched the Republican nomination points to the central question in federal investigations of the Kremlins meddling in the presidential election: whether the Trump campaign colluded with the Russians.
It is unclear whether the Russian lawyer, Natalia Veselnitskaya, actually produced the promised compromising information about Mrs. Clinton. But the people interviewed by The Times about the meeting said the expectation was that she would do so.[/QUOTE]
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If the headline is correct this is a smoking gun, right?
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Melania tweeted out-hope everyone [b][i]sta[u]y[/u][/i][/b] safe
giving an order you would say stay but
would it not be better if she tweeted hope everyone stays safe…?????
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dummies make nice escape goats but sometimes they can become liabilities as well imho
Quote from dergon
Quote from dontmindme
What was all that collusion and obstruction of justice?
Still waiting….
[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/09/us/politics/trump-russia-kushner-manafort.html?action=Click&contentCollection=BreakingNews&contentID=65549760&pgtype=Homepage&_r=0][b]Donald Trump Jr. was promised damaging information about Hillary Clinton before agreeing to meet with a Kremlin-connected Russian lawyer during the 2016 campaign[/b][/link]
President Trumps eldest son, Donald Trump Jr., was promised damaging information about Hillary Clinton before agreeing to meet with a Kremlin-connected Russian lawyer during the 2016 campaign.
The meeting was also attended by his campaign chairman at the time, Paul J. Manafort, and his son-in-law, Jared Kushner The meeting at Trump Tower on June 9, 2016, two weeks after Donald Trump clinched the Republican nomination points to the central question in federal investigations of the Kremlins meddling in the presidential election: whether the Trump campaign colluded with the Russians.
It is unclear whether the Russian lawyer, Natalia Veselnitskaya, actually produced the promised compromising information about Mrs. Clinton. But the people interviewed by The Times about the meeting said the expectation was that she would do so.[/QUOTE]
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so I guess the Patriot’s owner won’t be getting that superbowl ring back anytime soon now that Trump is President
–4Trump and Putin working on cybersecurity is like Melania’s cyberbully campaign–not only was she radiosilent on the blood coming from Minka’s face but she was like he punches back -
Presidential planning strategy meeting??????
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all plans to influence 2016????
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?treason
Quote from dergon
Quote from dontmindme
What was all that collusion and obstruction of justice?
Still waiting….
[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/09/us/politics/trump-russia-kushner-manafort.html?action=Click&contentCollection=BreakingNews&contentID=65549760&pgtype=Homepage&_r=0][b]Donald Trump Jr. was promised damaging information about Hillary Clinton before agreeing to meet with a Kremlin-connected Russian lawyer during the 2016 campaign[/b][/link]
President Trumps eldest son, Donald Trump Jr., was promised damaging information about Hillary Clinton before agreeing to meet with a Kremlin-connected Russian lawyer during the 2016 campaign.
The meeting was also attended by his campaign chairman at the time, Paul J. Manafort, and his son-in-law, Jared Kushner The meeting at Trump Tower on June 9, 2016, two weeks after Donald Trump clinched the Republican nomination points to the central question in federal investigations of the Kremlins meddling in the presidential election: whether the Trump campaign colluded with the Russians.
It is unclear whether the Russian lawyer, Natalia Veselnitskaya, actually produced the promised compromising information about Mrs. Clinton. But the people interviewed by The Times about the meeting said the expectation was that she would do so.[/QUOTE]
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[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/07/business/energy-environment/trump-organization-titan-environmental-cleanup.html]https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/07/business/energy…[/link]
FYI on Don jr
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did u hear the pathetic response–the meeting was a set up –well then imho dumb dumb Don, Jr fell right into the trap
Quote from dergon
Here’s a nice little investigative reporting piece ….. just to whet your whistle.
[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/08/us/politics/trump-russia-kushner-manafort.html?_r=0]
Trump Team Met With Lawyer Linked to Kremlin During Campaign[/link]The previously unreported meeting was also attended by Mr. Trumps campaign chairman at the time, Paul J. Manafort, as well as the presidents son-in-law, Jared Kushner, according to interviews and the documents, which were outlined by people familiar with them.
While President Trump has been dogged by revelations of undisclosed meetings between his associates and Russians, this episode at Trump Tower on June 9, 2016, is the first confirmed private meeting between a Russian national and members of Mr. Trumps inner circle during the campaign. It is also the first time that his son Donald Trump Jr. is known to have been involved in such a meeting.
Representatives of Donald Trump Jr. and Mr. Kushner confirmed the meeting after The Times approached them with information about it. In a statement, Donald Jr. described the meeting as primarily about an adoption program. The statement did not address whether the presidential campaign was discussed.
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Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
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saw this on the wapo discussion site
Veselnitskaya client, Prevezon helped launder money linked to the $230 million corruption scheme exposed by Mr. Magnitsky by putting it in real estate and bank accounts.-
Seen on twitter.
Bin Laden: I had nothing to do with bringing down the twin towers.
Bush: are you sure? My intelligence people say you planned.
Bin Laden: nope
Bush: ok, how’d you like to partner with me to do all of our terror defense?-
Chapter 1, The Art of the Steal( by RV):
“The drawbacks of nepotism.”-
The Gang that Couldn’t Lie Straight.
Not just traitors. Really stupid traitors.
on WAPO discussion board-
?treason?
George Bush’ ethics lawyer thinks it’s close:
[url=http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/341223-ex-bush-ethics-lawyer-on-trump-jr-meeting-with-russian-lawyer-this]Ex-Bush ethics lawyer on Trump Jr: ‘This borders on treason'[/url]
An ethics lawyer under former President George W. Bush blasted Donald Trump Jr. for meeting with a Russian lawyer who claimed to have compromising information on Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton during the campaign, saying it borders on treason.
This was an effort to get opposition research on an opponent in an American political campaign from the Russians, who were known to be engaged in spying inside the United States, Richard Painter said Sunday on MSNBC.
We do not get our opposition research from spies, we do not collaborate with Russian spies, unless we want to be accused of treason.
[/QUOTE]
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Making America Great again.
To paraphrase Goldwater, “Treason in the pursuit of Making America Great again is no vice.”-
They’re trying to play this like Trump knew nothing about this meeting. He’s so close to his kids but doesn’t know Donny Jr went to Russia for this meeting, and Donny Jr says nothing about it to Trump Sr.
“I’ve got a bridge I’d like to sell you” – Donald Trump probably.-
Nice legal analysis on how this is all illegal based on campaign finance law.
[link=https://www.justsecurity.org/42956/open-door-moscow-facts-potential-criminal-case-trump-campaign-coordination-russia/]https://www.justsecurity….n-coordination-russia/[/link] -
and Jared and Manafort just happened to be there
so is Flynn or Manafort talking–both have been allowed to retroactively register
and littl Jared he is redoing those federal disclosure forms over and over again–Sessions he got one do over on papers and blew thatQuote from DICOM_Dan
They’re trying to play this like Trump knew nothing about this meeting. He’s so close to his kids but doesn’t know Donny Jr went to Russia for this meeting, and Donny Jr says nothing about it to Trump Sr.
“I’ve got a bridge I’d like to sell you” – Donald Trump probably.
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folks–recall Pence prior interviews
Nixon used to joke they won’t get rid of me because Agnew is there–but with Trump–Pence is there
nevertheless–both Nixon and Agnew left in the end-
recall the Petraeus scandal started when Jill Kelley complained to the FBI about emails–Don Jr did not call the FBI-he met with the Russian and brought Manafort and Jared along
interesting fact-Jill Kelley was the first honorary Ambassador to General Mattis at United States Central Command-
folks–this is how Russia works–U want info then come meet with us–Marie Le Pen( no one will give u money well come over here)
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the totality of the circumstances here is an insurmountable mountain of problems for team Trump.
– Ammended filings about Russian meeting
– We didn’t meet with Russians, oh yes you did.
– Email with pretext of the meeting being Clinton info
– Russian lawyer says heck yes they wanted damaging info on Clinton
– 3 top Trump people at the meeting.
– Kellyanne looking like a buffoon on TV trying to explain this one away as “people don’t trust Clinton”
– Trump tweets not helping
and now Don Jr. says “hold my beer”. Holy cow. His lawyer must’ve just reached for a bottle of Advil.
[link=http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/07/11/donald-trump-jr-releases-alleged-email-chain-regarding-russian-meeting.html]http://www.foxnews.com/po…g-russian-meeting.html[/link] -
Trump supporters don’t care, it’s all proof of enemies undermining the duly elected President with “fake news” from “fake news media.”
Republicans will do nothing about any of it. The real “different strokes” example. -
Quote from Frumious
Trump supporters don’t care, it’s all proof of enemies undermining the duly elected President with “fake news” from “fake news media.”
Republicans will do nothing about any of it. The real “different strokes” example.
This all started from a NYT story so imagine what Mueller can get his hands on.
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I’m not holding my breath that something comes from any of this. Not that nothing is discovered that’s impeachable or prosecutable, just that nothing will happen as it gets ignored and quashed for political reasons. The best part is that it’s all happening out i the sunshine for everyone to see & still nothing will likely happen.
Looks like Trump’s brag about shooting someone at noon in broad daylight on New York City’s 5th Avenue & not losing supporters is just too true.
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wonder if someone has a tape of the meeting–either way he looks like he met with a foreign entity to meddle in the election–everyone in that room is guilty imho
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Kushner’s security clearance should be rescinded immediately
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Literally no evidence of collusion.
You guys would probably come across as saner if you huffed paint before you posted.
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Depends on what the meaning of is, is. In regards to collusion that is.
“The Russians didn’t have anything new not already released so therefore we didn’t have to collude, although we wanted to.” doesn’t count.
“If it’s what you say, I love it!”-
Let’s see some of the idiocy that’s been written in this thread:
Frumious: “To paraphrase Goldwater, ‘Treason in the pursuit of Making America Great again is no vice.'”
DICOM_Dan: “‘I’ve got a bridge I’d like to sell you’ – Donald Trump probably.
Sad.-
Lemme tell you…Dishonest Donald is A DISASTER! So sad.
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Quote from Jan the Third
Let’s see some of the idiocy that’s been written in this thread: …………….
DICOM_Dan: “‘I’ve got a bridge I’d like to sell you’ – Donald Trump probably.
Sad.
It’s sad the some people can’t see the lies for what they are. It’s been a stream of lies since the swearing in starting with silly things like crowd size. Voter fraud commissions, everyone was talking about Podesta&email, hope there’s not tapes of Comey, constant contradictions.
unfortunately if Donald was a wooden puppet he’d have nose that could touch the moon. That’s just off the cuff way of saying he’s massively FoS.-
a liar staffed with a team of liars–God help this country–this is on the GOP who I believe would do anything to win–look at the Iranian hostages and the selling of weapons to Iran by their precious Reagan
Quote from DICOM_Dan
Quote from Jan the Third
Let’s see some of the idiocy that’s been written in this thread: …………….
DICOM_Dan: “‘I’ve got a bridge I’d like to sell you’ – Donald Trump probably.
Sad.
It’s sad the some people can’t see the lies for what they are. It’s been a stream of lies since the swearing in starting with silly things like crowd size. Voter fraud commissions, everyone was talking about Podesta&email, hope there’s not tapes of Comey, constant contradictions.
unfortunately if Donald was a wooden puppet he’d have nose that could touch the moon. That’s just off the cuff way of saying he’s massively FoS.
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There’s a quote going round from the emails he release “The Russian government may have dirt on Hillary. Do you want it?” Don Jr replies “yes”
enough said. I sort of wonder if this is playing into something like Don Jr and maybe a few others fall on the sword to save Trump. Go to jail, maybe serve a short time or get pardoned in an attempt to move on from Russia. It’s like all the sudden he’s coming out and saying “I did it”.-
“There’s a quote going around…”
Weak. But that’s all I’ve come to expect from the Left.-
Quote from Jan the Third
“There’s a quote going around…”
Weak. But that’s all I’ve come to expect from the Left.
it was in the emails released by Don Jr, it’s quoted from his emails. Keep on spinning and you might fly off the planet.
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I didn’t say that it wasn’t. But without links, your posts are worthless. (I mean, apart from entertainment value.)
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As if the left doesn’t have their own liars. It’s the rights turn to be accused. The Clintons and Obamas (yes, even liberal Mama Michelle is a liar for her man). They all lie, everyone here on this forum lies at times to get information or to skew an outcome for their own benefit. Trump just happens to be the one in office and fresh meat for the media left. No doubt soon, MSNBC will be saying that Trump lifts his left cheek up when he farts, meaning… he’s leaning to our side.
I just amazes me how media just makes sh*t up for a buck.. both sides actually. [b][i]We need another reality program called “Real Housewives (or domestic partners) of District of Columbia”[/i][/b]. That program would probably tells us more truth then what’s coming out from the current Media.
Really… who give a-
no one lied about treason until now–divert if u must but if u start with a birther lie and then the crowd size lie–
liars and christian hypocrite huckaberry
Don Jr likes to talk all that smack–it is nice to see his Fredo weakness come shining bright
how did Petraeus blow up after being mum on an affair–kelly called the FBIQuote from CudaRad
As if the left doesn’t have their own liars. It’s the rights turn to be accused. The Clintons and Obamas (yes, even liberal Mama Michelle is a liar for her man). They all lie, everyone here on this forum lies at times to get information or to skew an outcome for their own benefit. Trump just happens to be the one in office and fresh meat for the media left. No doubt soon, MSNBC will be saying that Trump lifts his left cheek up when he farts, meaning… he’s leaning to our side.
I just amazes me how media just makes sh*t up for a buck.. both sides actually. [b][i]We need another reality program called “Real Housewives (or domestic partners) of District of Columbia”[/i][/b]. That program would probably tells us more truth then what’s coming out from the current Media.
Really… who give a
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snot nosed brat–we have seen this over and over–the children of a bully who think they can do the same but quicker and more outrageous–only to have reality come crashing down as they head to the pen
will this apply to Jared???-
notice how Spicey has gone awol and dump that job on Huckaberry–he probably has found an attorney and is counting his pennies while heading the advice “Don’t get caught on camera stating a lie”
Boycott all Trump hotel, etc
let them spend their money on lawyers-
Russia if u are listening I hope you are able to find all of the emails–and now Donnie Jr which proves Trump lies and project–when he said Russia is a Ruse–the actual truth is that it is not and is very revelent concerning his win ( believe me)
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Is there a reason why she had all this hanging out at a professional hearing
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All the world is st1te, cuda, everyone is equally a liar and bad. No one is without sin and the sins all weigh equally heavy on every individual, Obama & Michelle are equally as bad as Trump.
So believing that, how do you take sides on anything when all is corrupt and equally corrupt.
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divert–do anything but address the lies and deception and treason before u–handle this immediate clear and present danger known as the Trump administration first and then we can go after others but I do believe Jane Sanders is getting her nastiness investigated as well
Quote from Frumious
All the world is st1te, cuda, everyone is equally a liar and bad. No one is without sin and the sins all weigh equally heavy on every individual, Obama & Michelle are equally as bad as Trump.
So believing that, how do you take sides on anything when all is corrupt and equally corrupt.
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the fat Russian got a send off party tonight–so as the Don Jr shoe drops- a questionable spy returns home–never to have to face questioning by US–
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Frumi you are right…..republicans don’t care about all the useless noise about Russia. I doubt that middle America democrats trying to feed their families and pay their bills care either. Infatuation with Russia is how mainstream media suckers you into helping their ratings. Nothing more.
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Quote from sentinel lymph node
divert–do anything but address the lies and deception and treason before u–handle this immediate clear and present danger known as the Trump administration first and then we can go after others but I do believe Jane Sanders is getting her nastiness investigated as well
Quote from Frumious
All the world is st1te, cuda, everyone is equally a liar and bad. No one is without sin and the sins all weigh equally heavy on every individual, Obama & Michelle are equally as bad as Trump.
So believing that, how do you take sides on anything when all is corrupt and equally corrupt.
I don’t take sides but rather choose the lesser hypocrite in our political spectrum. Sure, Trump is loud, snarky, a show boat but he’s new in the office. But treasonous acts? You’re sounding like the little Rachael show. Please… google treason for the correct meaning, but of course… it’s the buzz word in the media. Obama was arrogant, smooth talker, didn’t take ownership of his actions and yes… did not improve race relationships that the left said we would do. Hilary, gave away a bunch plutonium, her husband got paid for speaking in Russian (Putin?), her administrative campaign expertise got her personal server with top secret information hacked.
So how do you take sides? Led blindly by the media and your own hatred for Trump?-
the truth is there for the blind to see–more shoes to drop–the blind support for a draft dodger–God help this country and the blind sheep held in a captive denial befor them
Quote from CudaRad
Quote from sentinel lymph node
divert–do anything but address the lies and deception and treason before u–handle this immediate clear and present danger known as the Trump administration first and then we can go after others but I do believe Jane Sanders is getting her nastiness investigated as well
Quote from Frumious
All the world is st1te, cuda, everyone is equally a liar and bad. No one is without sin and the sins all weigh equally heavy on every individual, Obama & Michelle are equally as bad as Trump.
So believing that, how do you take sides on anything when all is corrupt and equally corrupt.
I don’t take sides but rather choose the lesser hypocrite in our political spectrum. Sure, Trump is loud, snarky, a show boat but he’s new in the office. But treasonous acts? You’re sounding like the little Rachael show. Please… google treason for the correct meaning, but of course… it’s the buzz word in the media. Obama was arrogant, smooth talker, didn’t take ownership of his actions and yes… did not improve race relationships that the left said we would do. Hilary, gave away a bunch plutonium, her husband got paid for speaking in Russian (Putin?), her administrative campaign expertise got her personal server with top secret information hacked.So how do you take sides? Led blindly by the media and your own hatred for Trump?
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CT genius liberal Sen Richard “sue them all” Blumenthal on CNN Werewolfe Blitzer says Trump Jr shows intent and potential for treason and espionage. Espionage
LOL. The left is losing it with these stupid comments coming from a former atty general. No wonder democratic controlled CT has no budget and is one of the worst states w financial issues when you have geniuses like him being elected. Espionage! What a stupid thing to say. Fortunately for him everyone is watching everything but CNN. -
CT genius liberal Sen Richard “sue them all” Blumenthal on CNN Wolfe Blitzer says Trump Jr shows intent and potential for treason and espionage. Espionage
LOL. The left is losing it with these stupid comments coming from a former atty general. No wonder democratic controlled CT has no budget and is one of the worst states w financial issues when you have geniuses like him being elected. Espionage! What a stupid thing to say. Fortunately for him everyone is watching everything but CNN. -
Quote from sentinel lymph node
the truth is there for the blind to see–more shoes to drop–the blind support for a draft dodger–God help this country and the blind sheep held in a captive denial befor them
Quote from CudaRad
Quote from sentinel lymph node
divert–do anything but address the lies and deception and treason before u–handle this immediate clear and present danger known as the Trump administration first and then we can go after others but I do believe Jane Sanders is getting her nastiness investigated as well
Quote from Frumious
All the world is st1te, cuda, everyone is equally a liar and bad. No one is without sin and the sins all weigh equally heavy on every individual, Obama & Michelle are equally as bad as Trump.
So believing that, how do you take sides on anything when all is corrupt and equally corrupt.
I don’t take sides but rather choose the lesser hypocrite in our political spectrum. Sure, Trump is loud, snarky, a show boat but he’s new in the office. But treasonous acts? You’re sounding like the little Rachael show. Please… google treason for the correct meaning, but of course… it’s the buzz word in the media. Obama was arrogant, smooth talker, didn’t take ownership of his actions and yes… did not improve race relationships that the left said we would do. Hilary, gave away a bunch plutonium, her husband got paid for speaking in Russian (Putin?), her administrative campaign expertise got her personal server with top secret information hacked.So how do you take sides? Led blindly by the media and your own hatred for Trump?
SLN – you ramble with words like the side of a Dr Bronners castile soap bottle. If your metaphor is that more things will happen, I’m sure it will because the left can’t do CaCa for the people and all the do is Biotch and complain. So keep going, It will open up the door for further Hilary and Bill investigations as well and possible new Obama dirt. You guys can’t do the same thing and then cry foul when the other side does it as well. It just shows how desperate your are and how you’re trying to hoodwink the public. You’ll get caught. Remember… Money was given to Iran.. a terrorist supporting regime and then… all of a sudden… a prisoner is released. How convieeeenent. We don’t negotiate with terrorist remember. You guys make false statements based on 3rd party yahoo or hearsay and then start to believe it. Fix your team and get your sheeat together. It’s sad. All I hear on MSNBC / CNN / ABC is the Russian stuff. Hell RT thinks it’s bogus now. Oh wait, that’s Russian TV that Al’s on now?
Sad… so sad for the left. -
Even John McCain talks about another shoe dropping from the Rump centipede.
As for Hillary & Bill, you are proposing re-opening the murder investigation of Vince Foster by the Clintons? Based on what evidence?
As for Trump & Russia, it was Trump Jr. who provided the conclusive evidence of wanna-be colluders. Thems are the facts, no alternative anything there.
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[url=http://www.nationallawjournal.com/id=1202793078879/Jamie-Gorelick-Retreats-from-Russia-Probe-Will-Counsel-Kushner-on-Ethics-Disclosures?cmp=share_twitter&slreturn=20170614170038]Kushner’s lawyer on the Russia probe dumps him[/url]
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don’t u just love the irony
that e-mail would lead straight to the Trump campaign–KARMA –it’s a B–look at Flynn and his lock her up( he and the son may have legal issues in the future)Quote from dergon
[link=http://www.nationallawjournal.com/id=1202793078879/Jamie-Gorelick-Retreats-from-Russia-Probe-Will-Counsel-Kushner-on-Ethics-Disclosures?cmp=share_twitter&slreturn=20170614170038]Kushner’s lawyer on the Russia probe dumps him[/link]
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Quote from CudaRad
So how do you take sides? Led blindly by the media and your own hatred for Trump?
Trump has been doing his carnival barker and bankruptcy act in New York since the 1980’s. His act is only new to you.
As for “hypocrites,” same question I asked elsewhere, where are Republicans more honest & what are their accomplishments? All I see are obvious contradictions, you claimed in the past of the GOP improving the ACA? Really? Jan III says he supports liberal policies like Roosevelt but then supports the anti-liberal policies of the GOP. What’s not hypocritical about those? Jan’s whole world revolves around preventing the immigration of non-Europeans or of people who don’t “look European.”
What’s your bias? -
Quote from Frumious
Quote from CudaRad
So how do you take sides? Led blindly by the media and your own hatred for Trump?
Trump has been doing his carnival barker and bankruptcy act in New York since the 1980’s. His act is only new to you.
As for “hypocrites,” same question I asked elsewhere, where are Republicans more honest & what are their accomplishments? All I see are obvious contradictions, you claimed in the past of the GOP improving the ACA? Really? Jan III says he supports liberal policies like Roosevelt but then supports the anti-liberal policies of the GOP. What’s not hypocritical about those? Jan’s whole world revolves around preventing the immigration of non-Europeans or of people who don’t “look European.”
What’s your bias?
As is stated… the lesser of Hypocrites is my Bias of sway. ACA? Who benefits from it now? Less people… because the term “Affordable” was a lie. Not thought through very well. But Pelosi stated… “You have to pass it first before you know what’s in it.” How brilliant! You guys took that hook line and sinker and trusted a wealthy west coast liberal to guide you to promise land of universal healthcare and where is it now? Almost unavailable except to the inner big Liberal cities. If the republicans do the same thing, I won’t be very happy about it at all. At least, I’ll admit to that. However, some on the right have said no to the current “draft”. Maybe, the left should have had the balls to say that in their own party. And yet, here we are.
Here’s the difference between Trump and Prior Presidents. He’ made money, lost money, created businesses and lost businesses. That’s how it works when you expand. I can speak that because myself and family have gone through that for over 60 years. You expand, reduce, let go, close and sell. So Wow, a few of his many…many… businesses went bankrupt. So did Delta Airlines, WorldCom, Delphi, Enron, GM, PG&E and Lehman Brothers. So it’s Trump the business.. and not Trump the person that actually went bankrupt, but of course the left never explains how business really works to the less educated. Just that big bad Republicans are going to work you to death and never let you grow as an individual.
I can’t speak for Jan III except that Democrats of the FDR era (including Johnson and Kennedy) had a passion for liberal Moral values and work ethics. The liberal values the current left promotes now are not the same ones. “Violence to others, destruction of other peoples property, silencing of free speech (except their own), Life sentences for mass murderers and child rapist and yet… death to the unborn innocent for selfish convenience. Shaming their own kind because they chose life. These are just a few of your parties values… not FDR’s.
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is this The Bad son??
He set up the meeting so the heat starts with him but Jared has the most legal jeopardy
-in the mob who ever let the informer in first has the blame -
the ?Good son but with most legal troubles
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Hard-liner Krauthammer even believes there was collusion.
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/bungled-collusion-is-still-collusion/2017/07/13/68c7f72a-67f3-11e7-8eb5-cbccc2e7bfbf_story.html]https://www.washingtonpos…bccc2e7bfbf_story.html[/link]
My view was: Collusion? I just dont see it. But Im open to empirical evidence. Show me.
The evidence is now shown. This is not hearsay, not fake news, not unsourced leaks. This is an email chain released by Donald Trump Jr. himself. A British go-between writes that theres a Russian government effort to help Trump Sr. win the election, and as part of that effort he proposes a meeting with a [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/donald-trump-jr-was-told-campaign-meeting-would-be-with-russian-government-lawyer-according-to-emails/2017/07/11/70b957e2-664c-11e7-9928-22d00a47778f_story.html?utm_term=.4db64c472e56]Russian government attorney[/link] possessing damaging information on Hillary Clinton. Moreover, the Kremlin is willing to share troves of incriminating documents from the Crown Prosecutor.
Once youve said Im in, it makes no difference that the meeting was a bust, that the intermediary brought no such goods. What matters is what Donald Jr. thought going into the meeting, as well as Jared Kushner and then-campaign manager Paul Manafort, who were forwarded the correspondence, invited to the meeting, and attended.
It turned out to be incompetent collusion, amateur collusion, comically failed collusion. That does not erase the fact that three top Trump campaign officials were ready to play.
Its rather pathetic to hear Trump apologists protesting that its no big deal because we Americans are always intervening in other peoples elections, and they in ours.
This defense is pathetic for two reasons. First, have the Trumpites not been telling us for six months that no collusion ever happened? And now they say: Sure it happened. So what? Everyone does it.
Whats left of your credibility when you make such a casual about-face?
Second, no, not everyone does it. Its one thing to be open to opposition research dug up in Indiana. But not dirt from Russia, a hostile foreign power that has repeatedly invaded its neighbors (Georgia, Crimea, eastern Ukraine), that buzzes our planes and ships in international waters, that opposes our every move and objective around the globe.
There is no statute against helping a foreign hostile power meddle in an American election. What Donald Jr. and Kushner and Manafort did may not be criminal. But it is not merely stupid. It is also deeply wrong, a fundamental violation of any code of civic honor.
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[b]
Once youve said Im in, it makes no difference that the meeting was a bust, that the intermediary brought no such goods. What matters is what Donald Jr. thought going into the meeting, as well as Jared Kushner and then-campaign manager Paul Manafort, who were forwarded the correspondence, invited to the meeting, and attended. [/b]
Yep.
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Quote from Ben Casey
Russia is how mainstream media suckers you into helping their ratings. Nothing more.
… or treason
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Yes treason in the far left wacky mind…..
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All the crybabies in this thread speaking of “treason”, as though they even know what it means.
Pull your thumbs out of your mouths and point to laws that were broken – or be exposed (well, not exposed as much as further perceived) as the intellectual lightweights (not to mention liars) that you are. -
You may want to Google the definition of treason……or you could just continue to live in your liberal fantasy world.
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What now passes for political discourse on the Left is a putrid mash of intrigue, implication, and rumor-mongering. The Left is like a cadre of gossiping housewives who appear to have nothing better to do with their time than create drama. Or, better still, a group of geriatrics still chortling at the same old jokes about classmates they haven’t seen since high school.
Cue incoherent stream-of-consciousness post by SLN.-
Bye Felicia–twirl troll back to FOX-the drip drip drip will only get worse or go see if u can get Kraft’s superbowl ring back from Putin-lol
We know what Don Jr aka as Fredo and Jared and Manafort did last Summer–read about it and weepQuote from Jan the Third
What now passes for political discourse on the Left is a putrid mash of intrigue, implication, and rumor-mongering. The Left is like a cadre of gossiping housewives who appear to have nothing better to do with their time than create drama. Or, better still, a group of geriatrics still chortling at the same old jokes about classmates they haven’t seen since high school.
Cue incoherent stream-of-consciousness post by SLN.
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Ross Douthat’s take has never exactly been a RINO cheerleader although criticism of any sort puts him in that category to the GOP beliebers. But even Douthat is holding his nose and taking a mea culpa on Trump. And his take is not complementary, as he calls the Trump Administration, “A Confederacy of Dunces.”
Hard if not impossible to find evidence to the contrary.
The “It’s not illegal” is hardly a defense for amoral corruption for the Trump Administration.
[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/11/opinion/trump-russia-collusion.html]https://www.nytimes.com/2…-russia-collusion.html[/link]
Here is a good rule of thumb for dealing with Donald Trump: Everyone who gives him the benefit of the doubt eventually regrets it.
This was true of clients and contractors and creditors throughout his business career. It was true of the sycophants and opportunists before whom he dangled cabinet appointments during the campaign and then, oh, never mind. It has been true of his cabinet members and spokesmen, whose attempts to defend and explain their bosss conduct are gleefully undercut by the boss himself. And it should be true for the sake of their souls, I sincerely hope its true of the Republican leaders whose reputations for probity and principle he has stomped all over since winning their partys nomination.
And now its true of me.
The benefit of the doubt I extended to Trump was limited, but on a rather important subject: I thought that direct collusion between his inner circle and Russian officialdom during the 2016 campaign was relatively unlikely and the odds of ever finding proof of such a conspiracy vanishingly low.
You can read my argument in full [link=https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/31/opinion/manchurian-president-trump-russia.html?_r=0]here[/link]; its a mere six weeks old. Its also no longer operative, because [b]we know now that Donald Trumps son, his son-in-law and his campaign manager all took a meeting in which it was explicitly promised that damaging information on Hillary Clinton would be supplied as part of Russia and its governments support for Mr. Trump.[/b] [/style]
[b]As the hapless Don Jr. the Gob Bluth or Fredo Corleone of a family conspicuously short on Michaels[/b] protested in his own defense[/style], [style=”color: #000000;”]the Russian rendezvous we know about came before (though only slightly before) the WikiLeaks haul was announced. So the Trump team presumably assumed that it involved some other Hillary-related dirt some of the missing Clinton server emails that Trump himself jokingly (jokingly?) urged Russian hackers to conjure and release, or direct evidence of Clinton Foundation corruption in its Russian relationships. [/style]
[style=”color: #000000;”] With that semi-exculpatory explanation in hand, you can grope your way to the current anti-anti-Trump talking point that Don Jr. and company were just hoping to gather oppo [/style]
[style=”color: #000000;”] But even if accepting oppo from a foreign government is technically legal it probably is, but I leave that question to campaign finance lawyers to work out this talking point takes you only so far. I am not a particularly fierce Russia hawk,[/style] [b]but the Russians are still a more-hostile-than-not power these days, with stronger incentives to subvert American democracy than the average foreign government. So taking their oppo has a gravity that should have stopped a more upright and patriotic campaign short.[/b]
Instead, [b]the mix of inexperience, incaution and conspiratorial glee on display in the emails suggests that people in Trumps immediate family[/b] not just satellites like Roger Stone [b]would have been delighted to collude if the opportunity presented itself.[/b] Indeed, [u][i][b]if the Russians [i]didnt[/i]approach the Trump circle about how to handle the D.N.C. email trove, it was probably because they recognized that anyone this naïve, giddy and [link=https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/09/30-years-of-coens-burn-after-reading/380666/]Burn After Reading-level stupid[/link] would make a rather poor espionage partner.[/b][/i][/u] [/style]
[style=”color: #000000;”][i]Then keep in mind, too, that all of this has come out (relatively) easily, thanks to digging by this newspapers reporters and leaks from the various factions in and around the White House, without the subpoenas and immunity deals that the formal investigations have at their disposal[/i]. [i]That means there is probably more and worse to come, and the more there is, the worse the presidents dealings with James Comey look.[/i] [/style]
[b]In the end, impeachment is political, not legal, and the House G.O.P. probably wont impeach for anything short of a transcript of a call between Trump and Putin in which the words yes, I want you to hack their servers big-league, Vladimir appear in black-and-white. And even then .[/b] [/style]
[style=”color: #000000;”]And as for the president himself well, to conclude where I began, anyone presuming his innocence at this point should have all the confidence of Chris Christie awaiting his cabinet appointment, or Sean Spicer reading over the days talking points. [/style]
[style=”color: #000000;”] It all depends on what the definition of “stupid” is. Not treasonous, just outright stupid and unpatriotic – and greedy, all in the name of what they calculated was good for the Trump brandname. [/style]
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As for illegal, yes, very possibly. Certainly not ethical in any small degree. Such a high bar supporters now place on the office of the presidency. How low can you go?
[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/11/opinion/donald-trump-jr-treason-emails-russia.html]https://www.nytimes.com/2…son-emails-russia.html[/link]
The revelation that Donald Trump Jr. enthusiastically accepted an offer to meet with an individual described as a Russian government attorney bringing official documents and information to help the Trump campaign and injure the Clinton campaign is a bombshell.
It raises a host of potential criminal and other legal violations for Donald Jr. and others involved, including his brother-in-law Jared Kushner; Paul Manafort, the campaign chairman at the time; and perhaps the president himself.
The defense that this was a routine meeting to hear about opposition research is nonsense. As ethics lawyers, we have worked on political campaigns for decades and have never heard of an offer like this one. If we had, we would have insisted upon immediate notification of the F.B.I., and so would any normal campaign lawyer, official or even senior volunteer.
That is because of the enormous potential legal liability, both individually and for the campaign. The potential offenses committed by Donald Jr., his colleagues and brother-in-law who attended the meeting, and the campaign itself, include criminal or civil violations of campaign finance laws. These laws prohibit accepting anything of value from a foreign government or a foreign national. The promised Russian documents and information would have been an illegal campaign contribution from a foreign government and a priceless one.
Welcoming the information and taking the meeting can reasonably be understood to signal a broader receptivity to Russian aid. This is even more serious than the campaign finance violation because it brings conspiracy law into play. That could make Donald Jr. and others liable for all of the Russian dirty tricks that followed, including any Russian cybercrimes or other crimes targeting the Clinton campaign.
[b]Prosecution under the federal treason statute is ultimately unlikely because we are not at war with Russia. But during the Cold War, treasonous conduct was often prosecuted under other statutes. (Alger Hiss was sentenced to four years in prison for forgetting in sworn testimony that he had met with Whitaker Chambers, an American working for the Russians.)[/b][b][/b]
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You’re right that “treason” (as a legal definition) isn’t the right word.
We need some mash-up that blends “Un American”, “Criminal”, and “duplicitous” into one nice term.
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Another shoe drops from the centipede every few days. I can assure you the people around me would not be inclined to do that kind of thing, especially not one of my sons. Cause my sons theyre in the military. You know, theyd probably be court-martialed.
Sen. John McCain (R-AZ), quoted by the [link=http://www.weeklystandard.com/print/senate-republicans-eager-to-hear-from-donald-trump-jr./article/2008785]Weekly Standard[/link].
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just a side note but do any of these scum still have security clearance? That should be gone right away. Probably be pretty tough for Kushner to bring peace to the middle east with out it.
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
just a side note but do any of these scum still have security clearance? That should be gone right away. Probably be pretty tough for Kushner to bring peace to the middle east with out it.
[link=http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/are-donald-trump-jrs-e-mails-about-meeting-with-a-russian-lawyer-evidence-of-a-crime?mbid=nl_TNY%20Template%20-%20With%20Photo%20(30)&CNDID=21493341&spMailingID=11459943&spUserID=MTMzMTc5NzcyNzUwS0&spJobID=1201073735&spReportId=MTIwMTA3MzczNQS2]Jeffrey Toobin[/link]:
In some respects, the person most exposed by the released e-mails is not Trump, Jr., but Jared Kushner, who continues to serve as a high-ranking White House adviser. More to the point, under penalty of law, Kushner filed an application to receive a security clearance, which was supposed to list all his foreign contacts. He did not initially disclose the June meeting, and congressional Democrats have been calling for his security clearance to be revoked. Inadvertence and bad memory are valid defenses in false-statement cases, but could Kushner seriously contend that a meeting set up with an e-mail heading Russian Clinton private and confidential simply slipped his mind?
Shortly after the election, Kushner, a novice in government, allegedly set up a back channel to communicate with the Russian government, using communication facilities operated by the Putin regime. At a minimum, this is deeply naïve on Kushners part; whether something more sinister was afoot is worthy of investigation.
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These “scum” are the “real Americans!”
Didn’t you know?
It doesn’t matter if you are scum, so long as you are on the “right” side.”
I am not on the “right” side.-
Complete and utter bull**** from the screeching AM Left. You have conceded that nothing illegal has been demonstrated to have taken place. What you provide are appeals to outside authorities (“[X] isn’t a RINO, and even HE doesn’t like Trump!!1!”), further intrigue and questions that are intended to be arguments on their own merits (but fail miserably, as usual), and lecturing (from the NYT – why is it that Leftists can seldom make their own, original points?) about how bad Russia is. I mean, I guess it’s OK for Clinton to have taken millions of dollars from Arab states… and I guess Russia is deserving of censure for having Trump – that’s the candidate who [i][b]didn’t [/b][/i]want to start a war with Russia – to win.
Boo-freaking-hoo.
Nothingburger with extra nothingsauce. You guys are pathetic.-
Quote from Jan the Third
Nothingburger with extra nothingsauce. You guys are pathetic.
I guess we disagree.
But someone is, at the very least, going to be criminally charged and it is quite likely that someone is going to jail (and/or will be pardoned shortly before going to jail)-
Criminal charges mean little – I could charge you, if I wanted to. If he is deemed *guilty* of anything, a discussion will be appropriate.
Off the bat, I can say that if the charges relate to this issue, my view of DT Jr. won’t be affected very much. The West is being subverted and destroyed every day through “legal” processes, and count me a member of the “resistance” to that (actual) treason.-
Quote from Jan the Third
Criminal charges mean little – I could charge you, if I wanted to. If he is deemed *guilty* of anything, a discussion will be appropriate.
Off the bat, I can say that if the charges relate to this issue, my view of DT Jr. won’t be affected very much. The West is being subverted and destroyed every day through “legal” processes, and count me a member of the “resistance” to that (actual) treason.
No … you could not charge me criminally.
And, man …. doesn’t your rationalizer get sore after such a work out?-
Quote from dergon
Quote from Jan the Third
Criminal charges mean little – I could charge you, if I wanted to. If he is deemed *guilty* of anything, a discussion will be appropriate.
Off the bat, I can say that if the charges relate to this issue, my view of DT Jr. won’t be affected very much. The West is being subverted and destroyed every day through “legal” processes, and count me a member of the “resistance” to that (actual) treason.
No … you could not charge me criminally.
And, man …. doesn’t your rationalizer get sore after such a work out?
I’m buddies with a prosecutor, and I get him to charge you with committing murder. Case is taken to court, where the utter lack of evidence causes the case to be dismissed. Doesn’t matter – the charge was brought.
I do sometimes rationalize, but I have rather off-the-beaten-track political views, and given that one cannot make an omelette without breaking a few eggs…-
The [i]prosecutor[/i] makes the charges. In order for your claim to make any sense you must assume corruption of the prosecutor.
Or in other words… [b]FAKE NEWS![/b] … [b] THE DEEP STATE![/b]
And you claim that the [i]left[/i] is full of screeching bs?!
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I can’t believe that a radiologist is too dim to understand that point here. I’m actually shaking my head.
[b]The charge doesn’t prove anything[/b]. To put it in medical terms, it’s like walking up to a person on the street and saying matter-of-factly, “You have Grade 4 GBM.” Perhaps they do, and perhaps they don’t. But your statement means nothing without corroborating evidence and consequent diagnosis.-
Your whole rationalization is just plain stupid and irrelevant, Jan. If we “lefties” on AM were the only ones complaining about the “Lyin donald” Administration, then you’d have an argument. But a special prosecutor has been appointed to investigate & these revelations are not the fevered imaginings of the anti-Trump left, they are leaks coming directly from Trump’s own people and Trump’s son himself posted the emails certifying the lies and expectations & hopes of collusion.
The problem is your cheerleading for your tribe excuses possibly criminal behavior or at the very least highly unethical behavior for an Administration. This is the government you want shows the low bar of your beliefs.-
Quote from Frumious
Your whole rationalization is just plain stupid and irrelevant, Jan. If we “lefties” on AM were the only ones complaining about the “Lyin donald” Administration, then you’d have an argument. But a special prosecutor has been appointed to investigate & these revelations are not the fevered imaginings of the anti-Trump left, they are leaks coming directly from Trump’s own people
Trump surrounded himself with neocons – an extraordinarily stupid move. I judge people on individual bases.
and Trump’s son himself posted the emails certifying the lies and expectations & hopes of collusion.
What lies? And even if there were hopes of collusion, no collusion [i][b]actually [/b][/i]took place. IOW – you Leftists have failed. Again. Pathetic.
Even if something criminal [i][b]is [/b][/i]unearthed at this point, it would sort of be like a deranged man who has a habit of creating six-foot craters to remove acorns, then one day chances upon a gold coin in the dirt. You, Frumious, have no credibility. Like CNN, feeding HRC’s campaign debate questions.Quote from Frumious
The problem is your cheerleading for your tribe [b]excuses possibly criminal behavior[/b]…
Highlighted for posterity, to demonstrate the utter speciousness of your talking points. I’m going to use simple words for you, Frumious, as I don’t want you to spend your afternoon with a dictionary: behavior that is “possibly criminal” does not… need… excusing.
Left-wing intellectualism is dead. -
Coincidences just keep bubbling up…but sure completely unrelated…
[link=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/topic/donald-trump]Donald Trump[/link] promised a major speech attacking campaign rival Hillary Clinton last June, just hours after his son, Donald Trump Jr., set up a meeting with a Russian lawyer he was told had compromising information on the Democratic candidate.In a speech on June 7, 2016, first [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/07/11/what-happened-and-when-the-timeline-leading-up-to-donald-trump-jr-s-fateful-meeting/]flagged[/link] by Washington Post reporter Philip Bump, then-candidate Trump promised vaguely to discuss all the things that have taken place with the Clintons.
[link=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-clinton-don-jr-russia_us_596562fee4b09b587d633d10]http://www.huffingtonpost…6562fee4b09b587d633d10[/link] -
What? A COINCIDENCE?! Stop the presses!
What a cult the Left is. Not surprising that the people who eat this up are the ones who don’t vaccinate their kids, and spend $8/lb on organic apples and the like.
SAD! -
Good Tomi Lahren impersonation.. People that still have a grasp on reality are Lefty Cult members who buy $8 apples and hate vaccines.
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Don Jr was part of a failed Moscow Trump tower–but note the family bizness just renewed TrumpTowerMoscow
the meeting did hit on sanctions which is another reason why at the time the property did not succeed–follow-the money -
lies lies and more lies after months of blanket denials with this is hysteria ridiculous–preposterous–all a bunch of liars even under oath with I swear to tell the truth–GOd Help this country-to be sold out by Russian trash for a freaking tower
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Axios: [url=https://www.axios.com/trump-lawyers-demand-wall-between-kushner-president-2458146483.html?utm_medium=linkshare&utm_campaign=organic]Trumps Lawyers Want to Wall Off Kushner[/url]
The team contends that it isn’t out to get Kushner, but just wants to protect the president because his son-in-law is so wrapped up in the investigation. He had three meetings with Russians that special counsel Bob Mueller is sure to investigate.
Members of Trump’s legal team are frustrated that Kushner has been discussing the investigation with the president, according to the sources.
Why it matters: The demand could exacerbate tensions between Trump’s team and Kushner’s high-profile lawyers, Jamie Gorelick and Abbe Lowell. A fractured team, either because of boundaries or personal differences, could make it even harder for Trump to defend himself and at the same time pass parts of his agenda.[/QUOTE]
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Quote from Jan the Third
Complete and utter bull**** from the screeching AM Left. You have conceded that nothing illegal has been demonstrated to have taken place. What you provide are appeals to outside authorities (“[X] isn’t a RINO, and even HE doesn’t like Trump!!1!”), further intrigue and questions that are intended to be arguments on their own merits (but fail miserably, as usual), and lecturing (from the NYT – why is it that Leftists can seldom make their own, original points?) about how bad Russia is. I mean, I guess it’s OK for Clinton to have taken millions of dollars from Arab states… and I guess Russia is deserving of censure for having Trump – that’s the candidate who [i][b]didn’t [/b][/i]want to start a war with Russia – to win.
Boo-freaking-hoo.
Nothingburger with extra nothingsauce. You guys are pathetic.
That’s weak sauce if your argument is to whine about the lefties. Minimally it looks like they’ve violated campaign laws, and add in a touch of perjury. Like I forgot about that meeting with the Russians when I signed my security clearance form. We’ll have to wait and see what Mueller comes up with.
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
Quote from Jan the Third
Complete and utter bull**** from the screeching AM Left. You have conceded that nothing illegal has been demonstrated to have taken place. What you provide are appeals to outside authorities (“[X] isn’t a RINO, and even HE doesn’t like Trump!!1!”), further intrigue and questions that are intended to be arguments on their own merits (but fail miserably, as usual), and lecturing (from the NYT – why is it that Leftists can seldom make their own, original points?) about how bad Russia is. I mean, I guess it’s OK for Clinton to have taken millions of dollars from Arab states… and I guess Russia is deserving of censure for having Trump – that’s the candidate who [i][b]didn’t [/b][/i]want to start a war with Russia – to win.
Boo-freaking-hoo.
Nothingburger with extra nothingsauce. You guys are pathetic.
That’s weak sauce if your argument is to whine about the lefties. Minimally it looks like they’ve violated campaign laws, and add in a touch of perjury. Like I forgot about that meeting with the Russians when I signed my security clearance form. We’ll have to wait and see what Mueller comes up with.
“Meeting with the Russians…” This is an embarrassing – if not surprising – simplification, even for a Leftist. Which “Russians”? Is it illegal to meet with any “Russian”?
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Just so that Fredo doesn’t have all the fun in the barrel…
McClatchy: [link=http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article160803619.html]Trump-Russia investigators probe Jared Kushner-run digital operation[/link]
Investigators at the House and Senate Intelligence committees and the Justice Department are examining whether the Trump campaigns digital operation overseen by Jared Kushner helped guide Russias sophisticated voter targeting and fake news attacks on Hillary Clinton in 2016.
Congressional and Justice Department investigators are focusing on whether Trumps campaign pointed Russian cyber operatives to certain voting jurisdictions in key states areas where Trumps digital team and Republican operatives were spotting unexpected weakness in voter support for Hillary Clinton, according to several people familiar with the parallel inquiries.
Also under scrutiny is the question of whether Trump associates or campaign aides had any role in assisting the Russians in publicly releasing thousands of emails, hacked from the accounts of top Democrats, at turning points in the presidential race, mainly through the London-based transparency web site WikiLeaks, .
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Quote from Jan the Third
Quote from DICOM_Dan
Quote from Jan the Third
Complete and utter bull**** from the screeching AM Left. You have conceded that nothing illegal has been demonstrated to have taken place. What you provide are appeals to outside authorities (“[X] isn’t a RINO, and even HE doesn’t like Trump!!1!”), further intrigue and questions that are intended to be arguments on their own merits (but fail miserably, as usual), and lecturing (from the NYT – why is it that Leftists can seldom make their own, original points?) about how bad Russia is. I mean, I guess it’s OK for Clinton to have taken millions of dollars from Arab states… and I guess Russia is deserving of censure for having Trump – that’s the candidate who [i][b]didn’t [/b][/i]want to start a war with Russia – to win.
Boo-freaking-hoo.
Nothingburger with extra nothingsauce. You guys are pathetic.
That’s weak sauce if your argument is to whine about the lefties. Minimally it looks like they’ve violated campaign laws, and add in a touch of perjury. Like I forgot about that meeting with the Russians when I signed my security clearance form. We’ll have to wait and see what Mueller comes up with.
“Meeting with the Russians…” This is an embarrassing – if not surprising – simplification, even for a Leftist. Which “Russians”? Is it illegal to meet with any “Russian”?
if the pretext is getting dirt on HRC appears to be squarely against Federal campaign laws. You should perhaps take a break from shaking your head and read the Don Jr email release.
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“Someone close to the president needs to get everyone connected with that campaign in a room and say, ‘From the time you saw Dr. Zhivago until the moment you drank vodka with a guy named Boris, you list every single one of those and we’re going to turn them over to the special counsel,’ because this drip, drip, drip is undermining the credibility of this administration,” said Gowdy, R-S.C
the ? hypocritical christians–prayers for him but nada for the poor and middle class families that will literally have family members die if the ACA is passed
birther lie/wire tap lie–Thy shall not bear false witness against they neighbor
Trump has always been consistent–I was going to fire Comey because of Russia-
Someone should be looking into the Clinton Ukraine arrangement during her campaign.
How about John Podesta’s dealings with Russian companies and then transferring stock to his kids when he needed security clearance?
How about Claire Maccaskill saying she never met the Russian ambassador in the 10 years she was on armed services committee when in fact she was at his house.
How about answers on Natalia Veselnitskaya getting into the USA after being denied a visa. Who in the Obama administration let her into the country. Reports indicate she was anti-Trump
Both sides are messing around. Donald Trump Jr was plain stupid for what he did but it wasn’t a crime. For all you collusion conspiracy theorists I suggest you read Politico’s article on what legally constitutes collusion. Great article with some great legal minds not the like of legal left wing CNN hack man Jeffrey (cheated on his wife and had a baby out of wedlock) Toobin.-
it was criminal–treason–a pack of lies thru and thru
-someone sends an email–have bag of coke/ let’s meet and u respond love it and then meet–u are guilty
Eric Gardner–a poor brother selling loose cigs but a white male cop chose to be jury, judge and executioner–
DON jR–total white male priv–affluenza defense –white male lies
Trump in pure projection imho–U let the snake inQuote from Ixrayu
Someone should be looking into the Clinton Ukraine arrangement during her campaign.
How about John Podesta’s dealings with Russian companies and then transferring stock to his kids when he needed security clearance?
How about Claire Maccaskill saying she never met the Russian ambassador in the 10 years she was on armed services committee when in fact she was at his house.
How about answers on Natalia Veselnitskaya getting into the USA after being denied a visa. Who in the Obama administration let her into the country. Reports indicate she was anti-TrumpBoth sides are messing around. Donald Trump Jr was plain stupid for what he did but it wasn’t a crime. For all you collusion conspiracy theorists I suggest you read Politico’s article on what legally constitutes collusion. Great article with some great legal minds not the like of legal left wing CNN hack man Jeffrey (cheated on his wife and had a baby out of wedlock) Toobin.
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Jared is alleged to have encourage Comey’s firing–?obstruction and not filling out federal forms truthfully
also recall Preet was fired–turns out this NY Russian money laundering case (underlying fraud uncovered by Sergei Magnitsky, died suspiciously in Moscow jail was settled by–AG Sessions
–is this the biggest infiltration in history–get Flynn in –control of the AG office-Nunes in congress who was head of investigation committee-fire Comey-Trump appoints head of CIA/get SC judge placed via Trump-entwine Pence with the lies well thought out plan to skate for 4 years and make money/turn up Syria and destroy the democracy of the USA????-
did Don Jr tweet about Moscow as best city/–will we get a trove of prior tweets Of Don Jr concerning Russia–get ready for another drip
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[url=http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/07/13/536982193/justice-department-defies-court-deadline-to-release-sessions-contacts-with-russi]Trump White House defies court order, will not turn over Jeff Sessions Security disclosure form[/url]
In defiance of a court order, the Justice Department is refusing to release part of a security form dealing with Attorney General Jeff Sessions’ contacts with the Russian government.
On June 12, a judge had ordered the agency to provide the information within 30 days, a deadline which passed on Wednesday.
A recently-launched ethics watchdog group called American Oversight filed a Freedom of Information Act request in March for sections of the Standard Form 86 relating to Sessions’ contacts “with any official of the Russian government.”
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there is something to hide–Sessions needs to go
Quote from dergon
[link=http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/07/13/536982193/justice-department-defies-court-deadline-to-release-sessions-contacts-with-russi]Trump White House defies court order, will not turn over Jeff Sessions Security disclosure form[/link]
In defiance of a court order, the Justice Department is refusing to release part of a security form dealing with Attorney General Jeff Sessions’ contacts with the Russian government.
On June 12, a judge had ordered the agency to provide the information within 30 days, a deadline which passed on Wednesday.
A recently-launched ethics watchdog group called American Oversight filed a Freedom of Information Act request in March for sections of the Standard Form 86 relating to Sessions’ contacts “with any official of the Russian government.”
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NBC News: [url=http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/russian-lawyer-brought-ex-soviet-counter-intelligence-officer-trump-team-n782851]
[h1]Former Soviet Counter Intelligence Officer also at Meeting With Donald Trump Jr. and Russian Lawyer[/url][/h1]
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Listened to NPR this morning & Jonah Goldberg of the National Review had a spot on analogy for the “non-collusion” argument because “nothing happened.” According to Jonah, it’s like being invited to an orgy, so you go, & then get there & find out it there is no orgy, it was just people trying to sell you condo shares, as you explain to your wife who has pointed questions about your attendance. Somehow she doesn’t accept your explanation that you’ve done nothing wrong.
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So the people who distributed this FSB ‘compromat’ dossier about Trump are now outraged that Trump Jr was seeking dirt on Hillary from the Russians. Oh the irony.
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The Republicans distributed the FSB compromat dossier about Trump?
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Quote from fw
So the people who distributed this FSB ‘compromat’ dossier about Trump are now outraged that Trump Jr was seeking dirt on Hillary from the Russians. Oh the irony.
Oh the irony, indeed. Even Fox is having problems defending the Administration over the Russia lies.
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/07/14/lie-after-lie-after-lie-fox-news-shepard-smith-has-a-cronkite-moment-on-russia]https://www.washingtonpos…nkite-moment-on-russia[/link]
Between its Fox and Friends morning show and Sean Hannity at night, Fox News has become a haven for those who think this whole Russia thing is nonsense. On Friday morning, Steve Doocy even declared that [link=https://twitter.com/AaronBlake/status/885881755198078977]the Russia story is starting to fall apart[/link].
But on Friday afternoon, a Fox host went off on the Trump administration’s handling of Russia in a way we’ve rarely seen.
Shepard Smith is no stranger to challenging the administration and occasionally launching into personal editorials including [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/11/17/an-impassioned-call-for-accepting-syrian-refugees-from-fox-news-video/]one about refugees back in 2015[/link]. But on Friday afternoon, he took it a step further, repeatedly accusing the administration of lying, deception and a coverup.
Here’s the transcript:
[blockquote] Were still not clean on this, Chris [Wallace]. If theres nothing there and thats what they tell us, they tell us theres nothing to this and nothing came of it, theres a nothingburger, it wasnt even memorable, didnt write it down, didnt tell you about it, because it wasnt anything so I didnt even remember it with a Russian interpreter in the room at Trump Tower? If all of that, why all these lies? Why is it lie after lie after lie? If you clean, come on clean, you know? My grandmother used to say when first we practice to Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive. The deception, Chris, is mind-boggling. And there are still people who are out there who believe were making it up. And one day theyre gonna realize were not and look around and go, Where are we, and why are we getting told all these lies?
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Drip Drip Drip
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Many people can’t tell the difference between real and fake news and how they are being manipulated by fake news sites because they just can’t tell the difference between real facts and partisan fantasy. When cornered they fall back to a defensive crouch of, “They’re all corrupt, they all lie” or some such excuse for intellectual laziness. The fact is these people can’t tell the difference anyway so the fault is with others.
What is real news using real facts vs alternative facts when so many get their “news” from known propaganda sites or social media with an agenda that is not about facts but about deliberately manipulating the audience?
[link=https://datasociety.net/output/media-manipulation-and-disinfo-online/]https://datasociety.net/o…on-and-disinfo-online/[/link]The medias dependence on social media, analytics and metrics, sensationalism, novelty over newsworthiness, and clickbait makes them vulnerable to such media manipulation.
The far-right exploits young mens rebellion and dislike of political correctness to spread white supremacist thought, Islamophobia, and misogyny through irony and knowledge of internet culture.
Media manipulation may contribute to decreased trust of mainstream media, increased misinformation, and further radicalization.Internet subcultures take advantage of the current media ecosystem to manipulate news frames, set agendas, and propagate ideas.
Far-right groups have developed techniques of attention hacking to increase the visibility of their ideas through the strategic use of social media, memes, and botsas well as by targeting journalists, bloggers, and in uencers to help spread content.
In early October 2016, Wikileaks posted a dump of 20,000 hacked emails from the Gmail account of John Podesta, Hillary Clintons campaign chairman. Users on an internet message board called 8chan/pol/short for politically incorrectimme- diately began combing through the emails looking for damaging material about Hillary Clinton. Using social media, they spread allegations that George Soros was funding liberal protesters to disrupt Trump rallies, that a vast ring of pedophiles was operating out of a Chevy Chase, Maryland pizza parlor, and that Clinton had a secret desire to assassinate Julian Assange. Despite the spurious, even fantasti- cal nature of such allegations, they spread through social media to far-right blogs and eventually to the mainstream media. As one 8chan poster wrote: The media isnt doing their job. With thousands of emails released, the only things theyve reported on even marginally has been what WEVE dug up. They literally cant be bothered to do any digging at all.
In the months leading up to the 2016 U.S. election, a number of subcultural groups who organize online made a concerted effort to manipulate the existing media infra- structure to promote pro-Trump, populist messages. These messages spread through memes shared on blogs and Facebook, through Twitter bots, through YouTube channels, and even to the Twitter account of Trump himselfand were propagated by a far-right hyper-partisan press rooted in conspiracy theories and disinformation. They in uenced the agenda of mainstream news sources like cable television, The Washington Post, and the New York Times, which covered Clinton conspiracy theo- ries more than Trumps alleged sexual assaults and ties to Russia.
Many of these far-right online groups consider themselves members of a new alt- right movement, and have even claimed credit for meme-ing Trump into the White House.2 Provocateurs like Milo Yiannopolous have explicitly linked the alt- right to the methods of online trolling, and the underground imageboards 4chan and 8chan:
The alt-right is a movement born out of the youthful, subversive, underground edges of the internet. 4chan and 8chan are hubs of alt-right activity. For years, members of these forums political and non-political have delighted in atten- tion-grabbing, juvenile pranks. Long before the alt-right, 4channers turned trolling the national media into an in-house sport.
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“The far-right exploits young mens rebellion and dislike of ‘political correctness’…”
Funny, because that’s exactly what Leftism has used as fuel for centuries. Hence, Leftist indoctrination from pre-K to grad school.-
But you are deliberately missing all the vital points. You can’t tell what is a lie and what is the truth.
[link=https://www.ft.com/content/5d95eadc-6691-11e7-8526-7b38dcaef614]https://www.ft.com/conten…11e7-8526-7b38dcaef614[/link]has depicted the media as the enemy and tried to weaken it with a campaign that I have described as the curse of the three Ds: disintermediation (tweeting directly to his followers); distraction (using eye-catching tweets to draw attention away from bad news); and destabilisation (issuing tweets unexpectedly, to leave journalists on the back foot). Taken together, these have produced a fourth D: disorientation, on the part of both journalists and media consumers alike. So it is not surprising that all sides are lashing out in anger. In these strange times, it is temptingly easy to shoot the messenger which, in this case, is the media. But there is another way to make sense of what is going on to look at some of the underlying structural shifts in the media today. When audiences at conferences such as Aspen start complaining about the media, they tend to compare it with idealised memories of how journalism operated 50 years ago.
Back then there was a thriving local market, a few healthy national papers and three main television channels. In that era, as Steve Coll, dean of Columbia Journalism School points out, television and print outlets had a strong commercial incentive to produce bipartisan coverage. In the television world, this neutrality was imposed by the Federal Communications Commission. In print journalism, most papers were operating in one-paper towns and since local newspapers could not afford to alienate any readers, they had to be bipartisan. Today the landscape is utterly different. The local newspaper industry has declined as advertising has collapsed, and the FCC has lost most of its regulatory power.
Meanwhile, the internet has enabled the launch of numerous media start-ups and, in the competitive world of cable TV, channels need to create loyal niche audiences rather than placate the FCC. As a result, many media outlets now have a stronger commercial incentive to be partisan, since they need a passionate audience. Hence the fact that Fox (which makes about $2.3bn in revenue a year) is so clearly rightwing and MSNBC (which has about $518m annual revenue) is leftwing; and hence the rise of sites such as Breitbart, the far-right network formerly chaired by Steve Bannon, now Trumps adviser, which has 45 million unique page views each month. As extremist, anti-establishment groups launch social media platforms that pump out highly partisan and sometimes fake news, the sense of disorientation for consumers grows. Fake news is seeping into the mainstream press on occasion, partly because it makes such compelling clickbait.The result is a cacophony of competing voices, more akin to the pamphleteering of the 19th century than the media of 50 years ago. It is thus little wonder that an Edelman poll shows that more Americans trust search engines than the media,
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Quote from Jan the Third
“The far-right exploits young mens rebellion and dislike of ‘political correctness’…”
Funny, because that’s exactly what Leftism has used as fuel for centuries. Hence, Leftist indoctrination from pre-K to grad school.
“for centuries?” I didn’t realize “Leftism” was around “for centuries.” How far back does it go? Jesus was a Socialist, that far? And Political Correctness was also something Jesus did “centuries” ago? Can you elaborate?
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