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Another shooting
Has the country gone totally crazy? Is there a permanent full moon that’s come out over America? Another killing, this time in a church, 26 dead & 20 more injured.
Here come all the prayers & hand-wringing and sympathies, but nothing more. Another “mentally disturbed” individual.
They are coming out of the woodwork these days. -
171 Replies
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White guy shoots people, we need to pray. How about gun reform? Dude had domestic abused his wife and kid. Shouldn’t be allowed to have a gun.
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
White guy shoots people, we need to pray. How about gun reform? Dude had domestic abused his wife and kid. Shouldn’t be allowed to have a gun.
Got a DD from the Air Force, couldn’t legally buy one. Going to be interesting to find out where he acquired it.-
Quote from stir22
Quote from DICOM_Dan
White guy shoots people, we need to pray. How about gun reform? Dude had domestic abused his wife and kid. Shouldn’t be allowed to have a gun.
Got a DD from the Air Force, couldn’t legally buy one. Going to be interesting to find out where he acquired it.
I’m going with gun show.
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
White guy shoots people, we need to pray. How about gun reform? Dude had domestic abused his wife and kid. Shouldn’t be allowed to have a gun.
Location (church) and victim’s demographics (children) are also fueling people’s inability to wrap their heads around this (and their need for comfort/prayor).
With respect to reform, I would start by getting assault rifles off the streets. If you want to own and use one, it has to be stored/used at a firing range. Sorta like wanting to own/use a formula 1 car.
Was listening to local talk radio, someone mentioned that increasing phenomenon of mass shooting was a type of contagious trend/fad. Think they referenced Gladwell who discussed this in one of his books.
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Who has the most mass shootings in the whole world?
Who has the highest rate of gun homicides in the developed world?
What country has the most guns in the world?
How come?-
Angry white guys and muslims
Those are the 2 mass murderers
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and so with all that is going on why do we still have 2 angry white men( DT/BS) that can’t quite HRC
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We have angry white men because trump can’t fix things or make it better for them
All he can do is play on their fears and incite rage and anger to keep them angry
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Another shooting, this time a California. Tried to enter school but fortunately it had gone into lockdown.
Lunatics are armed.
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This guy was a problem and I don’t understand how it got to this point. On NPR they said he was already arrested for stabbing his neighbor and out on bail. Monday apparently the cops were called for a domestic issue on this guy. How the hell did he not get thrown right back in jail Monday? How’s he out on bail? WTF.
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[link=https://www.snopes.com/texas-church-shooter-antifa/]https://www.snopes.com/te.s-church-shooter-antifa/[/link]
Alt-right trying to brand the shooter as Antifa. -
How does he own guns? According to the story his neighbors also complained many times as he would go off & shoot hundreds of rounds off anytime of the day. One of his neighbors, shot dead now, had a restraining order out on him.
A resident, Brian Flint, [link=http://www.kcra.com/article/3-dead-shooter-killed-near-tehama-county-school-3/13600667]told KCRA-TV[/link] that the suspected gunman stole his truck after killing his roommate.
Flint said he and his roommate lived near the suspect, who he only knew as Kevin.
The crazy thing is that the neighbor has been shooting a lot of bullets lately hundreds of rounds, large magazines, Flint said. This guy has been crazy, and hes been threatening us and everything. I just feel like there maybe should have been more effort put into stopping things like this.
One more time, let’s offer up prayers for the murdered and condolences for the families. I’ll buy a candle for them all, just 1, that should be enough, no? Who was it that recently said this is the price we have to pay for 2nd Amendment freedom? Occasional mass murders.
Seems like a small price to pay to avoid discussing anything other than prayers and candles.-
I don’t see this as a second amendment issue. This guy clearly had issues. He could’ve just as easily run a bunch of people over with this stolen truck. The quote starts “this guy is crazy”. Can we not lock up crazy people and get them some help?
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It’s not a 2nd Amendment issue per se except how does someone like this have guns? Before he went on his murder streak, before anyone does, why isn’t there a conversation allowed about keeping guns out of the hands of dangerous and unstable people? The answer invariably is 2 answers, arm everyone in every location; and gun control is “using both hands” as I saw on a truck this morning. Very adult.
Where is the conversation?-
if anything the GOP is making it easier for people who shouldn’t have guns to get them. Agree this person should’ve been dealt with, locked up, no guns. I can’t say if they knew or not that the person had them. I’m all for “extreme vetting” gun purchases.
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They knew he had since complaints were about him shooting at all hours hundreds of rounds.
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OY! The Idiot-in-Chief offers condolences for the wrong mass killing.
What a Twit!-
YAWN!
So boring. Another mass killing in an elementary school. In Texas. 18 y/o murders 14 children + 1 adult.
Oh well, the usual Rx, thoughts and prayers will address the issue.
[link=https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/05/24/us/shooting-robb-elementary-uvalde]https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/05/24/us/shooting-robb-elementary-uvalde[/link]
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Quote from Frumious
YAWN!
So boring. Another mass killing in an elementary school. In Texas. 18 y/o murders 14 children + 1 adult.
Oh well, the usual Rx, thoughts and prayers will address the issue.
[link=https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/05/24/us/shooting-robb-elementary-uvalde]https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/05/24/us/shooting-robb-elementary-uvalde[/link]
Think the 1 adult was his grand-mother.
Wonder what the current “Idiot-in-Chief” will do to address this issue.
Wonder how the ethnicity of the shooter plays a role in how this issue is debated/spun. At the end of the day, it doesn’t really matter-15 dead.-
Yes, how does the role of the ethnicity of the shooter play in all this?
Explain please.-
Quote from Frumious
Yes, how does the role of the ethnicity of the shooter play in all this?
Explain please.
1. Can’t blame this on a white-supremacist/consider this a hate-crime (unless this also applies to targeting elementary school aged children)
2. Republican’s/Fox news will somehow tie this into immigration.
How do you think the current idiot-in-Chef will act differently that the last one??? Explain please.
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Quote from frumious
YAWN!
So boring. Another mass killing in an elementary school. In Texas. 18 y/o murders 14 children + 1 adult.
Oh well, the usual Rx, thoughts and prayers will address the issue.
[link=https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/05/24/us/shooting-robb-elementary-uvalde]https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/05/24/us/shooting-robb-elementary-uvalde[/link]
HAPPY ANNIVERSARY for Uvalde. Thoughts and prayers. Let’s celebrate once again how the murderer’s 2nd Amendment rights were intact when he bought his guns.
I had to turn off the effin news listening to parents remembering their murdered children. This country is going to hell in a handbasket with the gun religion.
It’s our culture, stupid! Our children attend school as if it exists in an active war zone. Just so some can stroke their guns and FORBID! might have some regulations about guns.
[link=https://english.elpais.com/usa/2023-05-23/one-year-anniversary-of-uvalde-school-massacre-marked-by-frustration-were-just-a-number.html]https://english.elpais.com/usa/2023-05-23/one-year-anniversary-of-uvalde-school-massacre-marked-by-frustration-were-just-a-number.html[/link]Anger and disappointment are eating away at the families of the victims, who in the face of loss have become activists for tougher gun laws. This movement has proposed raising the minimum age to buy semi-automatic weapons such as the AR-15 used in the shooting from 18 to 21 years in Texas. The initiative has met with resistance from Republicans, who control the local Congress and oppose the measure, arguing it to be unconstitutional.
Verónica, who is originally from Mexico, but has spent three decades in Texas, says that the massacre changed everything for schools. Her Houston school now has a single front door, monitored throughout the day by a guard. Parents are prohibited from returning once they have dropped off their children. No one goes to the bathroom alone anymore. We have a scheduled time when the whole class goes together, she says, explaining how what happened in Uvalde has affected schools throughout the state. Whats more, teachers carry out two monthly drills where they pretend that a shooter has entered the school. A code is communicated through the speaker system. Door and window curtains are closed. The teachers gather their students in the place furthest from the door and keep quiet. We have not had courses on how to shoot, nor have we discussed it. We dont want it, she says before being asked.
The families of the victims who have been calling for greater gun regulation suffered another blow earlier this month. The initiative to raise the legal age to acquire military-grade weapons in Texas advanced in a legislative commission with the vote of Democratic lawmakers and the support of two Republicans, but it was[link=https://english.elpais.com/usa/2023-04-19/no-vote-after-uvalde-parents-plead-for-tougher-gun-laws.html] left off the legislative calendar[/link] because it arrived minutes after the deadline.
The families of the victims have found little support in the Texas Capitol in Austin. One of the few politicians supporting their cause is Democratic Senator Roland Gutiérrez. They believe that he joined their cause because he is one of the few parliamentarians who watched the complete videos of the massacre from the Department of Public Safety. Last Thursday, in an emotional speech, Gutiérrez admitted that politicians had failed to improve security at schools. They gave me a hard drive this size with two terabytes, he said, holding up a cell phone. What I saw were little children with no faces. What I saw was bodies just riddled, riddled [with bullets]. Blood everywhere. Three piles of kids… Two of them in one room, kids in another Because thats what we train them to do. We trained them to go huddle together. I know you think that we have done some good things on school hardening, and we have […] but it is hardly enough, [link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXiABEu_q7Y&ab_channel=CBSAustin]he declared with a broken voice.[/link]
[link=https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2023/05/uvalde-anniversary-shooting/674154/]https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2023/05/uvalde-anniversary-shooting/674154/[/link]Tomorrow marks one year since a shooter killed 19 students and two teachers at a Uvalde, Texas, elementary schoolthe deadliest school shooting since the one at Sandy Hook a decade prior. Each of these grim American anniversaries raises the same question: Has the country made progress in curbing the likelihood of mass shootings since the tragedy?
In a new [link=https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/05/winnetka-school-shooting-1988-anniversary/674141/]essay[/link], the writer Sarah Churchwell summarizes what America has begun to feel like in 2023: Were at a point of iterated, escalating trauma: the same people being affected by mass shootings across generations. Churchwell writes about her brother, whose elementary school was targeted by a shooter when he was a child, and who, more recently, evaded a mass shooting at a nearby Fourth of July paradeand was then forced to explain the reality of such events to his preschooler.
This morbid mass-shooting tradition can seem particularly intractable because it involves overlapping conflicts in American policy, culture, and society. First, of course, is the matter of guns. As I [link=https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2023/04/gun-control-america-shootings/673712/]wrote[/link] last month, a majority of Americans support gun-control measures such as universal background checks for gun purchases, but the nations political system fails to enact even these popular gun-control policies because of the intense political polarization over the issue and influence of the domestic gun industry.
Gordy notes that many American gun-control advocates are reluctant to blame cultural or psychological causes, rather than the sheer number of guns in the country, for the persistence of mass shootings. But he argues that its worth paying attention to the residents of Serbia who are arguing that eliminating the danger of violence will also require building institutions that are truthful and responsible, and building a culture that is, if not tolerant and understanding, then at least relatively nontoxic.
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Biden condemned the shooting & said something should be done, a 180° change from the Idiot-In-Chief whose solution was thoughts and prayers.
Our thoughts and prayers are with the victims and families of todays murderous attack in Sutherland Springs, Texas.
And why would you bring up White Supremicism in this case?
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Quote from Frumious
Biden condemned the shooting & said something should be done, a 180° change from the Idiot-In-Chief whose solution was thoughts and prayers.
Our thoughts and prayers are with the victims and families of todays murderous attack in Sutherland Springs, Texas.
And why would you bring up White Supremicism in this case?
At times it seems the main issues (firearms + sociopathic behavior=tragic mass killings) gets side-tracked/diluted due to a tangential issue such as racism/white supremacy/fill-in-the blank.
Just wonder what precisely is so unique to the US that this keeps reoccurring. Other countries have access to firearms without similar events. Do we just have an unusually high % of undiagnosed socio-paths living here?
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Quote from jd4540
Just wonder what precisely is so unique to the US that this keeps reoccurring. Other countries have access to firearms without similar events. Do we just have an unusually high % of undiagnosed socio-paths living here?
In the words of James Cromwell playing Dr. Alfred Lanning in the movie, [i]I Robot[/i], Now,”THAT is the right question!”
Except that the answer is no, we do not have more sociopaths in America than anywhere else in the world, diagnosed or not.
Explain all the obviously non-solutions answers to gun violence.
It is culture and history, plain and simple. It is gun worship over lives, even childrens’ lives.
Unless someone can provide a better answer? I’d like to hear it.
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Interesting. Heard BBC this morning interviewing Pete Sessions I believe about the school martyrs. Seems Pete doesnt blame the shooter so much as the shooters friends to whom he told he was going to buy guns. According to Sessions, if these friends only informed the authorities, he could have been stopped.
So it is the friends faults.
Glad we have leaders like Pete Sessions to point us in the right direction on how to correctly address mass murders.-
Quote from Frumious
Interesting. Heard BBC this morning interviewing Pete Sessions I believe about the school martyrs. Seems Pete doesnt blame the shooter so much as the shooters friends to whom he told he was going to buy guns. According to Sessions, if these friends only informed the authorities, he could have been stopped.
So it is the friends faults.
Glad we have leaders like Pete Sessions to point us in the right direction on how to correctly address mass murders.
I don’t know who Sessions is and don’t buy into his statement much. I do agree that this could have been stopped/prevented. There were probably a gazillion opportunities that were missed to intervene with this kid. People just don’t wake up one day and decide that they are socio-paths. Plenty of red flags/warning signs. Clearly not condoning what he did, however this kid was a victim himself (would not be surprised if he had cigarettes put out on his back etc at some point)-
One thing to know jd. We have no idea what Sessions’ actual statement was. We heard an interpretation of the statement from someone listened to an interview and who is wired to be antagonistic to any Republican official.
I agree with you. This is a multi factorial problem and recognizing the responsibility of the community to help this troubled kid and protect themselves is worth discussing. -
Quote from jd4540
I don’t know who Sessions is and don’t buy into his statement much. I do agree that this could have been stopped/prevented. There were probably a gazillion opportunities that were missed to intervene with this kid. People just don’t wake up one day and decide that they are socio-paths. Plenty of red flags/warning signs. Clearly not condoning what he did, however this kid was a victim himself (would not be surprised if he had cigarettes put out on his back etc at some point)
I agree except the gun advocates do not. In that the gun lobby and gun advocates are opposed to background checks so exactly what tests would they and their politicians then support to weed out dangerous people to prevewnt their ability to LEGALLY purchase a gun. The 18 y/o was disturbed obviously but what anything would have prevented the boy from legally purchasing the guns and ammunition?
Nothing.
We are stuck in Groundhog Day repeating episode, round and round decrying the mentally disturbed bought thjose guns and killed those people. But erect barriers to prevent such purchases?
How? Where? Who? Seriously, what test or anything would be supported by the gun lobby or gun advocates?-
Quote from Frumious
I agree except the gun advocates do not. In that the gun lobby and gun advocates are opposed to background checks so exactly what tests would they and their politicians then support to weed out dangerous people to prevewnt their ability to LEGALLY purchase a gun. The 18 y/o was disturbed obviously but what anything would have prevented the boy from legally purchasing the guns and ammunition?
This is obviously the absurd part of their argument and you are right to point that out. If you listen he actually says he should not have been able to purchase that “type” of gun, “maybe”. He knows that’s right. However, he’s being very careful not to upset the NRA and others that will fund future campaigns.
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Just wonder what precisely is so unique to the US that this keeps reoccurring. Other countries have access to firearms without similar events. Do we just have an unusually high % of undiagnosed socio-paths living here?
Dude
Its are laws
Have you ever traveled abroad
You arent allowed to posses assault style weapons
Holy sheet Americans honestly dont know this?
WOW
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Our
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Agree with your post but most USA citizens also dont know about the much more restrictive abortion laws, particulary in Europe. Give up assualt weapons and give up abortion after point of viability. Both great ides I think. One daughter born at 32 weeks. 22, healthy now. Nobody can tell me there is any difference. I was there. 3 lbs 13 oz.
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Quote from Chirorad84
Just wonder what precisely is so unique to the US that this keeps reoccurring. Other countries have access to firearms without similar events. Do we just have an unusually high % of undiagnosed socio-paths living here?
Dude
Its are laws
Have you ever traveled abroad
You arent allowed to posses assault style weapons
Holy sheet Americans honestly dont know this?
WOW
I’m fully aware of the gun laws in our countries (I’m 1st generation and have family in Europe). I could be wrong but guessing there are plenty of Canadians that own hunting rifles, shotguns etc. Other countries across the world have hunters as well. I can’t recall any recent similar type incident abroad (?Australia), where crazy individual goes into public space and starts randomly killing.
As others alluded to, I think it’s bigger than this, largely related to our gun-obsessed cowboy culture. Add in our consumerist tendencies to buy cr*p we don’t need (including firearms, body armor!, cross-bows etc), and then sprinkle in some mental illness/dysfunction.
Aside from essentially banning all firearms and having a massive buy-back for the gazillion of firearms out there (good luck doing this), hard to feel optimistic about the issue.
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[link=https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-horrific-predictable-result-of-a-widely-armed-citizenry/amp?fbclid=IwAR0gjc-R6m0yOqBMoIOwnPrCvPjV5NGR66r3wkNZJPeh7XL8f_5My8t_Ty4]https://www.newyorker.com…kNZJPeh7XL8f_5My8t_Ty4[/link]
[h1]The Horrific, Predictable Result of a Widely Armed Citizenry[/h1]
By having a widely armed citizenry, we create a situation in which gun violence becomes a common occurrence, not the rarity it ought to be and is everywhere else in the civilized world. That this happened amid a general decline in violence throughout the Western world only serves to make the crisis more acute; America’s gun-violence problem remains the great and terrible outlier.
Guns are not merely the instrument; guns are the issue. The more guns there are, the more gun violence happens.
Once again, the difference in policy views is clear, and can be coolly stated: those who insist on the right to concealed weapons, to the open carrying of firearms, to the availability of military weaponsto the essentially unlimited dissemination of gunsguarantee that the murders will continue. They have no plan to end them, except to return fire, with results we know. The people who dont want the regulations that we know will help curb (not end) violent acts and help make them rare (not non-existent) have reconciled themselves to the mass murder of police officers, as well as of innocent men and women during traffic stops and of long, ghostly rows of harmless civilians and helpless children. The country is now clearly divided among those who want the killings and violence to stop and those who dont. In the words of the old activist song, which side are you on?
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What sort of idiots elect these people in so many states and districts? Not even 24 hours & already people reporting this as a staged false flag operation with crisis actors.
Ted out there offering heart felt thoughts and prayers.
Americans really elect these people?
American culture gone insane.
[link=https://www.businessinsider.com/texas-shooting-uvalde-paul-gosar-touts-false-claim-transgender-woman-2022-5?op=1]https://www.businessinsider.com/texas-shooting-uvalde-paul-gosar-touts-false-claim-transgender-woman-2022-5[/link]
Following Tuesday’s [link=https://www.insider.com/children-injured-dead-uvalde-texas-elementary-school-shooting-2022-5]mass shooting at a Texas elementary school[/link], Arizona GOP congressman Paul Gosar spread a false and transphobic claim that the suspected shooter was a “transsexual leftist illegal alien.”
Gosar tweeted the claim even though authorities had already [link=https://www.insider.com/texas-elementary-school-shooting-what-we-know-about-the-suspected-shooter-2022-5]identified the suspect[/link] as an 18-year-old male resident of Uvalde, where the shooting occurred.
This false claim has been proliferating on social media with photos of a transgender person unrelated to the attack. The images appear to have been taken off the [link=https://www.reddit.com/user/Apprehensive_Ad_995/]Reddit account of a transgender artist.[/link]
Among the social media accounts that shared such images is a [link=https://www.facebook.com/northflpats/posts/pfbid056vMeSAKB3GMgMPMHmKpsFtBr2aTdFtDQSMB6hxRrK16c5L5pXdza755C6orVZTal]Facebook page called “North Florida Patriots.”[/link]
The page has since corrected its post, with its operators stating that they “won’t be lectured” by people looking to make the shooting a political issue and turn it into a “gun grab.”
[link=https://www.insider.com/texas-elementary-school-shooting-what-we-know-about-the-suspected-shooter-2022-5]Texas Governor Greg Abbott has identified[/link] the suspected shooter as an 18-year-old male who lived in the Uvalde community. Authorities say he shot his grandmother before heading to the school with two military-style rifles he bought on his 18th birthday.-
This all just shows me that we really need to come together to address the biggest threat to American school children … critical race theory
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NBA Warriors coach on Texas school shooting: ‘When are we going to do something?’
[link=https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-61576574]https://www.bbc.com/news/..orld-us-canada-61576574[/link]-
Hard to tell who are the crazies who allow such evil, the voters electing amoral/immoral people like Gosar & Cruz & Abbot & all the usual suspects or are these politicians merely acting on the behalf of their constituents who believe the murders of children & adults in schools & everywhere are not only the acceptable price to pay for unlimited gun ownership to anyone and every crazy person but is actually desirable over establishing limits? If these murders are dismissed as only by deranged crazy people, why are those gun owners so opposed to keeping guns out of crazies hands?
Consider, most all if not all of these murders were done by people who LEGALLY PURCHASED their guns! How does that compute?
There are more guns than actual people living in America, 330 million, and 1/2 of those guns are owned by 3% of the population!
The states with the highest gun violence stats are the states with the most lax regulations!
The one thing we can absolutely bet on today is that gun sales are today increasing as a result of the latest killings. To any homicidal maniac who wants several; you got the cash, we got the guns and ammunition.
America! Home of the gun nut! [b]Their brag is at least the shooters had their 2nd Amendment rights preserved! [/b]
And great deterrence solution proposed, the death penalty for all those shooters who either off themselves or just plain never plan to leave the scene alive. Thatll learn them! If the Las Vegas shooter knew the death penalty waited for him, why hed never have killed all those people.
[link=https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/crime/more-than-311-000-have-suffered-gun-violence-in-school-since-columbine-report]https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/crime/more-than-311-000-have-suffered-gun-violence-in-school-since-columbine-report[/link]
More than 311,000 children have suffered some form of [u][link=https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/texas-ag-facing-runoff-says-banning-guns-for-public-safety-ridiculous-after-school-shooting]gun violence[/link][/u] during school hours since the Columbine High School shooting in 1999, according to a [u][link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/local/school-shootings-database/?itid=hp-banner-main]database[/link][/u] maintained by the [i]Washington Post.[/i]
[link=https://www.security.org/blog/a-timeline-of-school-shootings-since-columbine/]https://www.security.org/blog/a-timeline-of-school-shootings-since-columbine/[/link]
[link=https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data/]https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data/[/link]
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And just to head things off at the pass in case it is interpreted that I support Sessions’ stance on gun control, I do not. I just listened to the interview and it’s the same “guns kill people, people don’t kill people” BS.
What’s sad is how actual discussion and ideas get lost in the partisanship.-
[link]https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0c97dbm[/link]
Starts at ~4:14 then 7:50 to 10:25 and to the end.
Not that difficult to find.-
Quote from Frumious
[link=https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0c97dbm]https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0c97dbm[/link]
Starts at ~4:14 then 7:50 to 10:25 and to the end.
Not that difficult to find.
I love that “not difficult to find” dig.
Too bad you didn’t read my follow up that I had just listened. The guy is an **hole for a number of reasons. You happened to do a terrible job of making the case with your interpretation of what he said.
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[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/05/26/uvalde-police-response-questions/?itid=hp-banner-main]As new timeline emerges, police criticized for response[/link]
Actions of local law enforcement look to be coming under some pretty rough scrutiny.
(looks like not much actual active response happened until the border patrol unit showed up)
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/05/26/uvalde-police-response-questions/?itid=hp-banner-main]Gunman was inside school for an hour before police killed him, officials say[/link][link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/05/26/uvalde-shooting-official-accounts/?itid=hp-banner-main]How accounts of the shooting have been changed and even withdrawn by authorities[/link]
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/05/26/police-response-uvalde-texas-shooting-families-deserve-answers/?itid=hp_opinions]Families deserve answers about how police responded[/link]
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1999 protocols developed from prior mass school murders say officers should enter & confront shooters immediately from what I understand & yet this & past shootings have seen police huddled outside in safety not attempting to confront the shooters as the killers continued their murdering rampages unopposed. How does that make sense?
And yet we hear new Groundhog Day proposals to address the issue of unopposed murderers by having teachers armed, another responsibility dumped on teachers that society wont address; create a single entrance in and out, but that forgets about fires not to mention creating a single point/gauntlet/bottleneck for future killers to murder children & teachers; provide bullet-proof blankets in schools; etc. Anything but address the single issue of crazy angry people having unlimited easy access to military designed guns.
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[b]Police Didn’t Engage Because They Couldve Been Shot[/b][/h1]
A lieutenant with the Texas Department of Public Safety [link=https://twitter.com/VAKruta/status/1529977770931113987?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1529977770931113987%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fnation%2F2022%2F05%2F27%2Fuvalde-shooting-police-gunman-shot-olivarez%2F]told CNN[/link] that police were reluctant to immediately engage with the gunman who spent an hour inside the elementary school in Uvalde, Tex., where he killed 19 children and two adults because they couldve been shot."They could've been shot. They could've been killed," Texas police lieutenant explains why law enforcement did not go into Uvalde school right away. pic.twitter.com/lfzTtAQqFg
— Virginia Kruta (@VAKruta) May 27, 2022
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Quote from Frumious
1999 protocols developed from prior mass school murders say officers should enter & confront shooters immediately from what I understand & yet this & past shootings have seen police huddled outside in safety not attempting to confront the shooters as the killers continued their murdering rampages unopposed. How does that make sense?
And yet we hear new Groundhog Day proposals to address the issue of unopposed murderers by having teachers armed, another responsibility dumped on teachers that society wont address; create a single entrance in and out, but that forgets about fires not to mention creating a single point/gauntlet/bottleneck for future killers to murder children & teachers; provide bullet-proof blankets in schools; etc. Anything but address the single issue of crazy angry people having unlimited easy access to military designed guns.
Craziness…When I first heard of the delay I thought that the shooter was isolated to a room, and that authorities were aware that he was armed but had not fired. My assumption was they were not confronting him head to head as to avoid blood shed. Guess I was way off. Pretty horrendous.-
Trump awkwardly reads off the names off all the children slaughtered at the start of his NRA address
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Lists a bunch of non-solutions
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Ends by doing a little dance[link=https://twitter.com/acyn/status/1530322212309200896?s=12]https://twitter.com/acyn/…30322212309200896?s=12[/link]
So solemn. So presidential
A speech where Trump read the names of the victims ends like this pic.twitter.com/fQZxrB9OiI
— Acyn (@Acyn) May 27, 2022
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More petulant children interrupted governor Abbott news conference
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[link=https://twitter.com/Angry_Staffer/status/1530234225768771585?s=20&t=8q7qVHIc3SBfSnrJ7olfnw]https://twitter.com/Angry…8q7qVHIc3SBfSnrJ7olfnw[/link]
Yikes. pic.twitter.com/Krd2rH6QC0
— Angry Staffer (@Angry_Staffer) May 27, 2022
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NYT’s Mike Baker reviews Uvalde police training and guidelines.
[link=https://twitter.com/ByMikeBaker/status/1530357140191186944]https://twitter.com/ByMik…us/1530357140191186944[/link]In the past two years, the Uvalde school district has hosted at least two active-shooter training days. One of them was just two months ago. The trainings included both classroom teachings and role-playing scenarios inside school hallways.
The training is clear: Time is of the essence. The first priority is to move in and confront the attacker.
But how should officers confront the gunman? With a tactical team? The training says that’s probably not feasible, because the urgency is so high. A SINGLE OFFICER, the training says, may need to confront the suspect on their own.
The guidelines provide sobering clarity: The first officers may be risking their lives. But, it says, innocent lives take priority. A first responder unwilling to place the lives of the innocent above their own safety should consider another career field.”
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Good guys with the gun
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19 officers standing around for over an hour while an active shooter kills more kids and others bleed out
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[b]The Bulwark[/b]
[link=https://www.thebulwark.com/in-uvalde-the-most-enraging-press-conference-in-american-history/]The Most Enraging Press Conference in American History
[/link]
Texas Department of Public Safety Director Steve McCraw revealed that there were 19 officers in the school hallway for about an hour as small children used their deceased teachers phone to [link=https://twitter.com/ByMikeBaker/status/1530238057454047232]dial 911 and beg for their lives[/link]. He described local police officials preventing border patrol and other federal law enforcement who had arrived on the scene from entering the school and helping these terrorized kids, while their keening parents begged them to act. He acknowledged the school resource officer was not on the scene.
And after admitting this staggering level of incompetence in the face of unimaginable evila failure so immense that it will reverberate for generationsMcCraw said dismissively, If I thought it would help, Id apologize.…
In the coming days there will be a desire to obsess only over the unfathomable failures of those who were charged with keeping these kids safe. The poor teacher who left a door ajar. The MIA resource officer. The cops, excuse methe SWAT Teamthat [link=https://www.vice.com/en/article/wxdwgn/uvalde-swat-team-bragged-about-training-at-schools-on-facebook]posed on Facebook[/link] in tactical gear with weapons of war looking like they were prepared to head to the Donbas, but were apparently unequipped to take on a lone teenager who was slaughtering their towns children.
But the main thing to take away from all of that is not that their failure can be reversed. Its that in a nation with 130,000 schools there will [i]always[/i] be some kind of human error when responding to an active shooter. God willing those errors wont be as catastrophic as they were in Uvalde. But there will always be errors.[/QUOTE]
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No worries Ted Cruz and governor Abbott more concerned about outlawing Dr Seuss and creating a critical race crisis in our schools
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[b]Abbott Now Says He Was Misled When Praising Uvalde Police[/b][/h1]
Texas Gov. Greg Abbott (R) claimed that law enforcement who responded to the scene of the Robb Elementary School shooting provided him with inaccurate information since Tuesday, [link=https://www.insider.com/abbott-said-hes-livid-about-inaccurate-uvalde-shooting-info-from-cops-2022-5]Insider[/link] reports.
Said Abbott: Yes. I was misled. I am livid about what happened. The information I was given turned out, in part, to be inaccurate, and I am absolutely livid about that.
Abbott initially praised the quick response of law enforcement and said it could have been worse without their actions.
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Abbott has also offered a formal apology to Beto O’Rourke saying “I know I’m a terrible governor and am dropping out of the race” as monkeys flew out of his butt. -
Quote from dergon
Trump awkwardly reads off the names off all the children slaughtered at the start of his NRA address
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Lists a bunch of non-solutions
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Ends by doing a little danceIn the category of Irony Is Dead: During his address, all guns, ammo, firearm accessories, knives and other scary items [link=https://www.nraam.org/media/3617/secret-service-notice.pdf]including laser pointers and selfie sticks[/link] were prohibited.
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If the house is on fire with people trapped, once 4 qualified firefighters are on the scene, 2 suit up and go in to do a search or advance a line. You don’t stand outside and look through your policy book to find a reason not to go interior. Yes, you may get burned, but that’s part of the job.
Getting shot at is part of the job description for being a cop. Embarrassing that the border patrol had to bail them out and that local LE unable to bring forward a tactical team within an hour.
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Good guys with guns
Imagine arming out teachers
Yeah that would clearly work
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There was another mass-shooting in Charleston, WV on Wed. Some psycho with an AR-15 opened fire on a birthday party.
Oh you didn’t hear about it ? Yeah, one of the ladies at the birthday party drew her concealed firearm and smoked him before he could do any damage.-
Great thats fantastic news
Perhaps we should arm every teacher so they show students their pieces
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Quote from Chirorad84
Great thats fantastic news
Perhaps we should arm every teacher so they show students their pieces
We should arm those teachers willing and capable to take on that responsibility and have a mechanism in place where LE knows which teachers are armed. Oh wait, that is how some rural districts in the west already do it.
And why would you want them to show it ? Defeats the purpose. That’s dumb.We had a mass shooting at one of the local high schools. Took 90 seconds until the SRO disabled the shooter. 1 dead, 1 graze wound. But that was because the sheriff rotates his swat deputies as SROs, and it’s not some part time gig for retirees.
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Quote from fw
There was another mass-shooting in Charleston, WV on Wed. Some psycho with an AR-15 opened fire on a birthday party.
Oh you didn’t hear about it ? Yeah, one of the ladies at the birthday party drew her concealed firearm and smoked him before he could do any damage.
Does this mean you are all for pychos being able to purchase AR-15s because we can count on a concealed carry law to protect our communities? You truly can play three level chess.-
I am angry. All of the arguments for gun rights break down with each one of these mass shootings. I’m listening to pontificators at the NRA convention say the problem is not the guns but the fact that there are too many kids without two parents.
OK fine. Let’s say those kids are the problem. Should our laws allow them to purchase assault rifles and tactical gear which allows them to be able to go out and kill kids of two parent households?
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Quote from Thread Killer
Quote from fw
There was another mass-shooting in Charleston, WV on Wed. Some psycho with an AR-15 opened fire on a birthday party.
Oh you didn’t hear about it ? Yeah, one of the ladies at the birthday party drew her concealed firearm and smoked him before he could do any damage.
Does this mean you are all for pychos being able to purchase AR-15s because we can count on a concealed carry law to protect our communities? You truly can play three level chess.
I am not in favor of that. I wish we enforced the existing laws and kept psychos, wifebeaters and drug users from buying guns. I am all for universal background checks, right after DOJ actually starts prosecuting more than 0.1% of the illegal purchases the current background check system catches.
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We should arm those teachers willing and capable to take on that responsibility and have a mechanism in place where LE knows which teachers are armed.
How do you distinguish which teachers are worthy of toting a gun?
Football coach?
Gym Teacher?
Guidance counselor?
You honestly dont think that would create issues?
Sounds really great and simple until the first couple incidents occur
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Quote from Chirorad84
We should arm those teachers willing and capable to take on that responsibility and have a mechanism in place where LE knows which teachers are armed.
How do you distinguish which teachers are worthy of toting a gun?
Football coach?
Gym Teacher?
Guidance counselor?
You honestly dont think that would create issues?
Sounds really great and simple until the first couple incidents occur
Why not female civics teacher? Your examples sounds like you believe athletic men are better suited to carry a weapon. Could start with those willing to take on the task and are trained to do so. Might be better than how they select their school police in Uvalde.
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Quote from Chirorad84
We should arm those teachers willing and capable to take on that responsibility and have a mechanism in place where LE knows which teachers are armed.
How do you distinguish which teachers are worthy of toting a gun?
Football coach?
Gym Teacher?
Guidance counselor?
You honestly dont think that would create issues?
I’ll take anyone who does a better job than the Uvalde school district police department.Sounds really great and simple until the first couple incidents occur
Some schools are doing this, none of them has yet been hit by an attack. So no way of telling whether its gonna work or not until that happens. We’ll see. It’s cheap enough to do.-
Which ones?
Are many many people saying this?
I have an idea why dont the current outraged parents groups (predominantly spearhead by people who dont have school age kids) who are currently fixated on critical race theory and banning Dr Seuss express moral outrage?
The bottom line is you either want to solve this or not and when you play this disingenuous mental health card and arm every teacher card its not doing any good
I think at least raising the age to 21 in order to purchase firearms would have an impact on the number of school shootings
If you look most of the school shooters are under the age of 21
Now thats stop the movie theater shooters or the Las Vegas or Orlando shooters but its going to stop the 18 yr old who buys a gun on his 18th bday legally
We are obviously not going to agree on much but
The least we could do is that
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Quote from Chirorad84
I think at least raising the age to 21 in order to purchase firearms would have an impact on the number of school shootings
If you look most of the school shooters are under the age of 21
Agreed. Universal age of majority at 21. Buy a gun, buy alcohol, buy pot, vote. It’ll fix many problems.
Now thats stop the movie theater shooters or the Las Vegas or Orlando shooters but its going to stop the 18 yr old who buys a gun on his 18th bday legally
We are obviously not going to agree on much but
The least we could do is that
You already have to be 21 to buy a handgun.
Doesn’t seem to do us much of good in the inner cities where 15 and 16 year olds off each other with stolen handguns.
But yeah, we can pass another law. Can’t buy a semi-auto rifle or shotgun until you are 21. That’ll fix the problem. -
Every little bit counts.
Just because a new piece of legislation won’t address *all* gun violence doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be adopted.
Take a public health view. If it lowers morbidity by 5%… do it!
We can try to take on the problems of stolen handguns with future laws.
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Quote from dergon
Every little bit counts.
Just because a new piece of legislation won’t address *all* gun violence doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be adopted.
Take a public health view. If it lowers morbidity by 5%… do it!
We can try to take on the problems of stolen handguns with future laws.
Thats right. A little political pragmatism.
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What is your point ?
Under federal law, a gun dealer can only sell a handgun to a person over 21. Even in Texas.
Depending on the state an 18 year old can possess a handgun that he/she received as a gift or inheritance.
My point is you cant legally drink alcohol until you are 21
You cannot legally provide alcohol to anyone under 21
A person under 21 cannot legally possess alcohol
Why not do the same for handguns and assault style weapons
Is this this going to solve all problems?
No
But it will solve some and will also provide a pathway toward accountability
Its a helluva a lot better than crying mental health for 2 weeks after a shooting then putting your head in the sand ( or up your arse) until the next one occurs
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Quote from Chirorad84
My point is you cant legally drink alcohol until you are 21
You cannot legally provide alcohol to anyone under 21
A person under 21 cannot legally possess alcohol
Why not do the same for handguns and assault style weapons
Great. We are on the same page. Brain is not matured until you are 21. Shouldn’t have a semi-auto rifle, a handgun, alcohol, a vote and the right to pickle your brain with pot. -
Quote from dergon
Every little bit counts.
Just because a new piece of legislation won’t address *all* gun violence doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be adopted.
Take a public health view. If it lowers morbidity by 5%… do it!
We can try to take on the problems of stolen handguns with future laws.
Great point -
There are multiple problems
Mass shootings are a problem
School shootings is a subset of the problem
Most school shootings are perpetrated by individuals under 21
Seems to me a reasonable easy fix to solve at least part of the problem
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Von Drehle brings up good points regarding the solution of a good guy/gal with a gun to address mass murderers. Considering this is hardly the 1st time that TRAINED good guys with guns waited timidly outside FOR AN HOUR while children were murdered, how does the untrained armed civilian become the solution?
There is a single reason the military awards medals for valor, its not something that everyone does, it is the exception.
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/05/27/uvalde-shooting-guns-police-no-heroes/]https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/05/27/uvalde-shooting-guns-police-no-heroes/[/link]Still, its important to look unsentimentally at the timid response in Uvalde, which was not so different from [link=https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/15/us/florida-school-shooting-columbine-lessons/index.html]the police response at Columbine High School in 1999[/link], or at [link=https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/12/us/parkland-shooting-florida-commission-report.html]Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in 2018[/link], or at any number of chaotic and dangerous scenes created by murderous narcissists who write their pain in the blood of innocents.
The brand of heroism that enables someone to advance on a gunman is more rare than Hollywood would have us believe. Military historian John Keegan, in his 1978 masterpiece [link=https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Face_of_Battle/tVk4BjsSDXwC?hl=en&gbpv=0]The Face of Battle: A Study of Agincourt, Waterloo, and the Somme[/link], explored the often decisive element of fear in warfare a topic frequently hushed up. The majority of soldiers are unwilling to take extraordinary risks and do not aspire to a heros role, he wrote.
The milling cops outside the school are a strong reply to those who say the solution to mass shootings is to have more people with guns in our schools and churches, our concert venues and grocery stores. Judging from the videos posted to social media by confounded onlookers, there was no shortage of guns in Uvalde only a shortage of officers willing to run inside and attempt to shoot a young man who was shooting back at them.
If they proceeded any further not knowing where the suspect was at, they couldve been shot, Texas Department of Public Safety spokesman Chris Olivarez [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/05/27/uvalde-shooting-police-gunman-shot-olivarez/?itid=lk_inline_manual_18]explained on CNN[/link]. They couldve been killed.
[b]Realistically, how confident can we be that schoolteachers, lunchroom cooks, church ushers or produce stockers will be any better prepared to draw down and do battle than those trained professionals in Uvalde? After all, the mass killers have every advantage: They have their weapons, they have the element of surprise, and theyve decided theyre ready to die, an empowering frame of mind.[/b]A strategy for curing the epidemic of mass shootings that depends on the presence of a calm, collected, gun-slinging hero in every classroom and pew is doomed to fail. Such people are rare even among graduates of police and military training.
[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/12/us/parkland-shooting-florida-commission-report.html]https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/12/us/parkland-shooting-florida-commission-report.html[/link]
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But but but but
It sounds good
Its a great talking point to countering an argument you
Are clearly losing because youre other arguments are sheetAnd its totally unproven so you can advance the argument as absolute fact because many many people are saying this
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Cmon stop playing games
[link]https://guides.sll.texas.gov/gun-laws/buying[/link]
Hey you want to win your petty argument go ahead and tell yourself that you are but you know which states dont follow federal guidelines and which do
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Quote from Chirorad84
Cmon stop playing games
[link=https://guides.sll.texas.gov/gun-laws/buying]https://guides.sll.texas.gov/gun-laws/buying[/link]
Hey you want to win your petty argument go ahead and tell yourself that you are but you know which states dont follow federal guidelines and which do
What is your point ?
Under federal law, a gun dealer can only sell a handgun to a person over 21. Even in Texas.
Depending on the state an 18 year old can possess a handgun that he/she received as a gift or inheritance. -
Quote from fw
You already have to be 21 to buy a handgun.
Doesn’t seem to do us much of good in the inner cities where 15 and 16 year olds off each other with stolen handguns.
But yeah, we can pass another law. Can’t buy a semi-auto rifle or shotgun until you are 21. That’ll fix the problem.
Is the problem limited to under 21 y/o kids? Well if you limit the data to school shootings, yes, they are mostly done by under 21 year olds but the rest are older.
I do not think the answer would be to limit gun ownership to 21 or older.
I am a Boomer and we got the vote at 18 because we were old enough to be drafted to be trained to kill but we were not allowed to vote because we were somehow too immature. It is not a stretch to extend that same argument to guns. The problem is how to limit gun ownership from highly immature and dangerous and mentally ill and disturbed people. You are not cured of gross immaturity or mental illness or hate when you reach the age of 21. Dylan Roof was 21 when he murdered those people in church.
But that said, why exactly does an 18 year old need a rapid-fire large magazine military designed weapon designed to kill people not designed for hunting or even self protection? Are OK Corral shoot-outs a common occurrence to require those specs?
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Quote from fw
There was another mass-shooting in Charleston, WV on Wed. Some psycho with an AR-15 opened fire on a birthday party.
Oh you didn’t hear about it ? Yeah, one of the ladies at the birthday party drew her concealed firearm and smoked him before he could do any damage.
Now THIS is the question. The “good gal with a gun” story leads to a single solution, it should be common for most people to be armed to protect themselves and others from violent crazy people or people who “simply” can’t control their temper without solving their anger with a gun.
This conclusion extends that everyone, anyone can be a shooter & and the situation is common enough that one has to assume no one can be trusted anytime anywhere. And yet the reality lacks that drama. Of all the people who are armed who are not police, how many times on average must they draw their guns to protect themselves or others? Of all the violent crimes, how many times does an armed bystander solve the problem by shooting the shooter? Not many.
And if arming every IS tha actual solution, why not make it mandatory for everyone to be trained in the use of weapons? Why not make it mandatory that all adults should carry? Why not bring back the draft with no deferments so that everyone can learn the use of military weapons? I am not being hyperbolic, a serious question considering if having an armed populace is the solution, why not make it mandatory?
Unless it is already realized that is not the solution to the problem?
We already have problems with people getting shot and killed for legally being in possession of a gun when they present no danger except in the mind of the actual shooter. We have many examples of a person telling an officer they have a permit for a gun only to get shot without further movement or statement. We have people getting shot when the legally have a gun when police accidentally bust into the wrong address. OK, not everyday buty how to solve that if everyone is presumed armed?
We’ve had civilian gun ownership for decades, centuries without mass murders being as common as today. Why suddenly is there a problem? Why suddenly are the gun advocates creating a fantasy of “jack-booted” police kicking down your door to confiscate your guns?
Where is the reality?
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Quote from fw
Quote from Thread Killer
Quote from fw
There was another mass-shooting in Charleston, WV on Wed. Some psycho with an AR-15 opened fire on a birthday party.
Oh you didn’t hear about it ? Yeah, one of the ladies at the birthday party drew her concealed firearm and smoked him before he could do any damage.
Does this mean you are all for pychos being able to purchase AR-15s because we can count on a concealed carry law to protect our communities? You truly can play three level chess.
I am not in favor of that. I wish we enforced the existing laws and kept psychos, wifebeaters and drug users from buying guns. I am all for universal background checks, right after DOJ actually starts prosecuting more than 0.1% of the illegal purchases the current background check system catches.
Good. Thanks for answering honestly despite my sarcastic tone. Your response sounded much like what we hear from those who think there should be no restrictions on gun sales because you know its the next step on the slippery slope to the coming to take all of our guns away.
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You know what
If my 20 yr old wrecks my car and hurts someone I am likely getting sued
Same should happen to the parents who know these kids have weapons
My point-
We have laws and procedures for all this other sheet but somehow to some people guns are off limits
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[uote]Its a helluva a lot better than crying mental health for 2 weeks after a shooting then putting your head in the sand ( or up your arse) until the next one occurs[/quote]
It’s even more asinine this time. This time they’re crying doors.-
Im not sure but it sounds to me like fw, who has pronounced a political stance that is far to the right, agrees that there should be limits on who can buy what in terms of guns. This is good news and I think everyone but the absolute lunatics like the NRA members and Trump agree. Lets use some of this momentum to get something, anything common sense done. Please.
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Yes they want limits until its actually time to have limits
Then they cry mental health and put their head in the sand
Then next month more kids get shot at school
Wash rinse repeat
They dont want to solve the problem
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Or they want to gut the laws the beatch when the laws dont work
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OK. We can say what they want and yell at them on anonymous message boards or we can try to get some of them to own their words and actually accomplish something.
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I mean you cant blame me
Last year fw gave an eloquent defense of while it was perfectly fine and legal for Kyle rittenhouse to have and carry an assault style rifle
Which he was correct in saying that
But today he is trying to basically say that there are laws on the books to prevent 18 yr olds from owning or having a gun
Its a totally disingenuous argument
Furthermore when these incidents arise every few months they follow the same playbook
Basically the laws dont work anyway if they are gutted- and thats their goal
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Quote from Chirorad84
I mean you cant blame me
Last year fw gave an eloquent defense of while it was perfectly fine and legal for Kyle rittenhouse to have and carry an assault style rifle
Which he was correct in saying that
But today he is trying to basically say that there are laws on the books to prevent 18 yr olds from owning or having a gun
Its a totally disingenuous argument
Furthermore when these incidents arise every few months they follow the same playbook
Basically the laws dont work anyway if they are gutted- and thats their goal
Certainly not trying to blame you.
I’m trying to blame the idiots that think it’s all fine and dandy for just about anyone to be able to legally purchase an assault rifle and tactical gear that can have then better armed and protected than the average police officer because of a constitutional amendment that has very little to do with that supposed “right”. All because of course if “they” limit gun purchases in any way, it means the next step is the government coming to take all of their guns away.
fw, has stated, after I asked, that they do not think it is a good idea for just anyone to be able to own these weapons. They say they are in favor of universal background checks. Hopefully they see the wisdom of red flag laws. Will these solve the problem? Of course not. They will help. If fw, given their political persuasions, is willing to show us what enough right leaning people are willing to concede then I say take it while it’s still available. Just like dergon said, there will be time to go further later.-
Treat guns like cars
Each one licensed by the state with a vin number
Mandatory training and testing get a license
Retesting at regular intervals
Mandatory liability insurance
Notice to the state of all transfers/sales
If you want to drive the big rigs you need additional certification
Etc
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Treat guns like alcohol
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Quote from Chirorad84
Treat guns like alcohol
I am good with that. If you are 21 you can go into the liquor store and buy any type of liquor and however much you want. Just show your ID.
Should be the same for guns.
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Quote from Chirorad84
I mean you cant blame me
Last year fw gave an eloquent defense of while it was perfectly fine and legal for Kyle rittenhouse to have and carry an assault style rifle
Which he was correct in saying that
But today he is trying to basically say that there are laws on the books to prevent 18 yr olds from owning or having a gun
Its a totally disingenuous argument
The disingenuous part is to leave out the difference between long guns and handguns. The gun control act restricts the sale of handguns to individuals under 21. Some states regulate Semi-Auto rifles similar to handguns, and doing that nationally could make sense.
The problem with all those rules is that there are idiot adults who will give young men unsupervised access to these items. Adam Lanzas mom, the dad of Rittenhouse’s friend, the girlfriend of one of the Columbine shooters etc.
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Quote from fw
Quote from Thread Killer
Does this mean you are all for pychos being able to purchase AR-15s because we can count on a concealed carry law to protect our communities? You truly can play three level chess.
I am not in favor of that. I wish we enforced the existing laws and kept psychos, wifebeaters and drug users from buying guns. I am all for universal background checks, right after DOJ actually starts prosecuting more than 0.1% of the illegal purchases the current background check system catches.
What laws prevent psychos from purchasing guns? Background checks? So far almost all these mass shootings have taken place with LEGALLY purchased guns.
As for wife beaters and people with known violent past, even that is opposed by the gun lobby.
So what laws would be supported by the gun lobby and gun owners and Republican politicians that would address the problem of virtually unrestricted purchases of guns by unbalanced people? I think that is the starting line for addressing the problem.
And we are not talking about absolutes here. There is not way to guarantee zero shootings everywhere in the US regardless of anything and everything. Even seat belts do not guarantee survival in a bad accident – but they have been shown to significantly reduce fatalities. -
[link]https://youtu.be/yTCXGAeLGHw[/link]
We are not giving the NRA enough credit for all their thoughts and prayers.
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[h2]Donald Trump Jr blames ‘crazy teachers and drug-addict mother’ not guns for Uvalde school massacre where teen armed with AR-15 rifle killed 19 students and two teachers[/h2] [link=https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/redirect-to/?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fnews%2Farticle-10867591%2FDonald-Trump-Jr-blames-crazy-teachers-drug-addict-mother-not-guns-Uvalde-school-massacre.html]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art…-massacre.html[/link]
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Just a thought
Has Donald trump jr ever been in or ever close to an actual public school?
I find it amusing that Beto is a petulant child but this tool who has never eagg egg Ned anything in his life is a new god of conservatives
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