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Another shooting
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[b]Uvalde Police Stop Cooperating with Investigators[/b][/h1]
The official response to the mass shooting at an Uvalde elementary school a response already marred by shifting narratives, finger-pointing and a general lack of timely and accurate information took a further turn toward dysfunction on Tuesday, the [link=https://www.texastribune.org/2022/05/31/uvalde-school-police-chief-investigation/]Texas Tribune[/link] reports.
The Uvalde school districts police chief who made the decision to wait for more resources rather than confront the gunman sooner has stopped cooperating with state investigators and had not responded to requests for information for over two days.-
In theory, 1st responders are supposed to be prepared to protect public lives above their own. Of course the reality we’ve seen with police and the public is exactly the opposite, especially in recent school shootings, innocent unarmed civilians are disposable.
We need better police and policing, not more deadly arms for police.
[link=https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/to-do-the-right-thing-you-might-have]https://frenchpress.thedi…t-thing-you-might-have[/link]
Lets pause right here. [link=https://twitter.com/ByMikeBaker/status/1530357140191186944]According to Uvalde police training documents[/link] obtained by Mike Baker and Dana Goldstein at the [i]New York Times[/i], this moment should have led to an immediate, sustained, and sacrificial engagement with the shooter. Police, including Uvalde police, are taught to engage a police shooter and not to stop, [i]even if it means taking casualties[/i]. Here are some key quotes:
[blockquote]First responders to the active shooter scene will usually be required to place themselves in harms way and display uncommon acts of courage to save the innocent.
[/blockquote] More:
[blockquote]As first responders we must recognize that innocent life must be defended. A first responder unwilling to place the lives of the innocent above their own safety should consider another career field.
[/blockquote] When a man or woman puts on a uniform and straps on a gunwhether theyre a police officer or a soldierthey should be making a profound declaration. Theyre willing to die to protect their community and their nation. They dont want to die, of course. But theyre willing to pay the last full measure of devotion if that moment arrives.
In our culture, we thank soldiers for their service and back the blue because, in theory, theyve placed our lives above their own.
And so, at 11:35 a.m. the seven officers present had but one choicefight to the death to protect and save as many children as they could. They were to emerge from that school [link=https://www.pbs.org/empires/thegreeks/background/8c_p1.html#:~:text=%22Come%20back%20with%20your%20shield,hung%20their%20heads%20in%20shame.]with their shield or on it[/link]. There was no other moral choice.But they waited. And waited. And waited. Two different girls called 911, begging for help. Their classmates were dead and dying all around them. They were in mortal danger. The first call came at 12:03. That same girl called back at 12:10, at 12:13, and 12:16. A different girl called at 12:19. The final call came at 12:36.
At this same time, families were rushing to the school. Police blocked them from trying to reach their children. The result was ultimate anguish. The videos are hard to watch.
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Quote from dergon
[b]Uvalde Police Stop Cooperating with Investigators[/b]
The official response to the mass shooting at an Uvalde elementary school a response already marred by shifting narratives, finger-pointing and a general lack of timely and accurate information took a further turn toward dysfunction on Tuesday, the [link=https://www.texastribune.org/2022/05/31/uvalde-school-police-chief-investigation/]Texas Tribune[/link] reports.The Uvalde school districts police chief who made the decision to wait for more resources rather than confront the gunman sooner has stopped cooperating with state investigators and had not responded to requests for information for over two days.
Their chief just got sworn into their city council also. Which I had no idea how the chief of police can be on the city council. I would think the police would ultimately be responsible the council/mayor/manager government.
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New shooting in Tulsa Medical Center. 4 dead plus gunman who apparently took his own life.
Lets hear a Groundhog Day solution from gun proponents that the death penalty would deter such shooters.
[link=https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/02/us/tulsa-hospital-shooting-thursday/index.html]https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/02/us/tulsa-hospital-shooting-thursday/index.html[/link]
Responding officers who arrived within minutes “were hearing shots in the building, and that’s what directed them to the second floor,” Dalgleish said.The gunman was found dead by police as they worked their way inside the building, Meulenberg said, and has not been publicly identified.
Police suspect the gunman’s fatal wounds were self-inflicted, and two firearms — described by Meulenberg as a semiautomatic rifle and a semiautomatic pistol — believed to have been used in the shooting were found next to him. Two of the deceased were found in the same room as the gunman, the police captain said.
It was unclear whether the four people killed were medical staffers, patients or visitors, said Dalgleish, who said the shooting took place at an orthopedic center in the building.
In addition, fewer than 10 people suffered non-life-threatening injuries, Meulenberg said. Authorities are trying to determine if they were wounded by gunfire or during the chaos of escaping the scene, he said. No officers were injured.
[link=https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/02/us/tulsa-hospital-shooting-thursday/index.html]
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It seems pretty clear based on the messaging coming from Republicans that any bipartisan “solution” will have nothing to do with guns.
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
W
Their chief just got sworn into their city council also. Which I had no idea how the chief of police can be on the city council. I would think the police would ultimately be responsible the council/mayor/manager government.He reports to the school district (and it’s board), not the city of Uvalde.
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As a councilman?
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
As a councilman?
He is not the police chief for the city of Uvalde. He is the police chief for the ‘Independent School District’.
There is no conflict of interest.
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[link=https://nypost.com/2022/06/02/police-in-uvalde-threaten-to-arrest-journalists-in-wake-of-texas-school-shooting/]Uvalde police threaten to arrest journalists [/link]
Police in Uvalde, Texas, threatened to arrest journalists for trespassing at school district headquarters Thursday as top cops face [link=https://nypost.com/2022/05/28/unclear-if-uvalde-swat-team-responded-to-texas-school-shooting/]scrutiny for their response[/link] to the Robb Elementary School massacre.
Uvalde School District Police Chief Pete Arredondo has been holed up in the district offices or in his home under police protection as questions swirl over whether law enforcement cost lives when they [link=https://nypost.com/2022/05/27/a-timeline-of-911-calls-during-the-texas-school-shooting/]waited an hour to take out the gunman [/link]who slaughtered 19 kids and two adults last week.
An Uvalde officer checked press credentials of two Post staff members and an NBC News crew on Thursday, warning them theyd be arrested for trespassing if they didnt leave.
The school district offices are in a private office complex, but other members of the public were allowed to walk into the taxpayer-funded office, including a local poet who dropped off a copy of one of her works.
CNN correspondent Shimon Prokupecz [link=https://twitter.com/ShimonPro/status/1532013417648771072]posted a video[/link] to Twitter of other threats of arrest on Wednesday, with four uniformed police officers seen blocking the way to the offices.
[/QUOTE]
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[link=https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-uvalde-police-scandal-law-enforcement-cops-shooting-victims-officers-11654206409?st=k17usrnxo884scl&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink]Peggy Noonan[/link]:
Uvalde wasnt an apparent law-enforcement failure. It is the biggest law-enforcement scandal since George Floyd, and therefore one of the biggest in U.S. history. Children, some already shot, some not, were trapped in adjoining classrooms. As many as 19 cops were gathered in the hall just outside. The Washington Post timeline has the killer roaming the classrooms: The attack went for so long, witnesses said, that the gunman had time to taunt his victims before killing them, even putting on songs that one student described to CNN as I-want-people-to-die music.
…
What I fear is a final report issued in six months or a year that will hit all the smarmy rhetorical notesa day of epic tragedy for our brothers and sisters in a small Texas townbut fail, utterly, to make clear who was responsible for the lost hour.
We cant let it settle in that the police cant be relied on to be physically braver than other people. An implicit agreement in going into the profession is that youre physically brave. I dont understand those saying with nonjudgmental empathy, Im not sure I would have gone in. It was [i]their job [/i]to go in. If you cant cut it, then dont join and get the badge, the gun and the pension.
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There is only one way to handle such a mistake: know it wont disappear. Lead a swift and brutal investigation, talk about it every day, keep the heat on.
[/QUOTE] -
story just keeps getting worse
[link=https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10884403/Uvalde-mom-handcuffed-coward-cops-trying-rush-save-kids-says-cops-threatened-her.html]https://www.dailymail.co….ps-threatened-her.html[/link]
The Uvalde mother who was handcuffed by the police and then ran to the school says that law enforcement threatened her with a probation violation (and so criminal punishment) if she talked about her story to the media:
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The crazy republicans just spent 2 years disparaging teachers over COVID restrictions/masks and virtual learning and bullied them calling them groomers and now their solution it arming the teachers
And having one door at a school!!! But you cant have one door because that would imply that the door is gender neutral so you technically need two doors one for male and female!!!!
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If there is one thing to learn, it is that we need to get rid of dedicated school police departments. Its a serious job and requires real cops, not a retiree gig for officer friendly who needs a few years to pad up his pension eligibility. There was no shortage of cops ready to bust down that door, there was an epic failure at leadership by one man. Leadership in that situation would have been to hand command to the first captain or shift commander from Uvalde PD who would have had the awareness that there were kids on the phone with the 911 center inside. Silos, lack of communication and an incompetent politician at the helm of a rinky-dink 6 man ‘department’ are what caused the failed response. Once you have 4 equipped (rifle, ballistic vest+helmet) officers on the scene, you go in until you engage the shooter. Every fire truck and ambulance on that scene had the tools to breach a ‘sturdy’ interior door and every cop knows how to use them. Crazy that it took the border patrol to finish off this psychopath.
The things that are coming out now show that as always, the shooter was known as a psychopath. We will find that multiple counselors and school administrators knew he was a time bomb but just shuffled him around afraid to face the problem head on.
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Well said fw. Add in some reasonable methods for limiting access to firearms for a psychopath like that and we could really make a difference.
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If they threatened her for talking to media is that not illegal? Sounds like extortion.
Im not sure how they can continue to operate a department. They must be charted by Texas or their county. Revoke or the feds should shut them down.
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Quote from fw
If there is one thing to learn, it is that we need to get rid of dedicated school police departments. Its a serious job and requires real cops, not a retiree gig for officer friendly who needs a few years to pad up his pension eligibility. There was no shortage of cops ready to bust down that door, there was an epic failure at leadership by one man. Leadership in that situation would have been to hand command to the first captain or shift commander from Uvalde PD who would have had the awareness that there were kids on the phone with the 911 center inside. Silos, lack of communication and an incompetent politician at the helm of a rinky-dink 6 man ‘department’ are what caused the failed response. Once you have 4 equipped (rifle, ballistic vest+helmet) officers on the scene, you go in until you engage the shooter. Every fire truck and ambulance on that scene had the tools to breach a ‘sturdy’ interior door and every cop knows how to use them. Crazy that it took the border patrol to finish off this psychopath.
The things that are coming out now show that as always, the shooter was known as a psychopath. We will find that multiple counselors and school administrators knew he was a time bomb but just shuffled him around afraid to face the problem head on.
All sounds good on paper. But those cops were anything but retired POPS guards standing around not doing anything except stopping everyone else from doing anything outside of threatening arrest if they tried, they were trained police. So the Pops cops doesnt hold any water at all.
Not only were they not Pops cops, this isnt the 1st time the cops were standing around holding their respective putzes stopping anyone from getting involved. The problem is not Pops cops but Putz police.
As for not stopping the shooter before he murdered children, again, this is hardly the 1st time a disturbed angry young man took murderous action on children & society, its the playbook. So why havent any of these men been stopped before they do harm? What threats would remove their 2nd Amendment right to purchase AR15s? Angry Facebook posts? You mean the NRA & gun advocates would support putting people on No Gun purchase lists when they cant even agree on Red Flag laws? Even for known domestic abusers?[link=https://www.nyu.edu/about/news-publications/news/2021/june/red-flag-gun-laws.html]https://www.nyu.edu/about/news-publications/news/2021/june/red-flag-gun-laws.html[/link]
In May 2020, Oklahoma passed the nations first law preempting or blocking local governments from enacting their own red flag laws. The states anti-red flag bill was one of several proposed across the country based on arguments that red flag laws are unconstitutional. Legal scholars have evaluated constitutional arguments supporting and opposing red flag laws, and while lower courts have upheld the laws, to date there is limited case law on their constitutionality.
State legislators had a variety of rationales for wanting to stop local governments from passing red flag laws. The four most common concerns were based on constitutional law:
[ul][*][b]The First Amendment[/b]: State legislators argued that red flag laws violated the First Amendment, which protects against unwarranted government interference with expression; however, threats of violence, intimidation, harm, or death are not protected.[*][b]The Second Amendment[/b]: State legislators also argued that red flag laws violate the right to bear arms for self-defense. If a firearm is removed under a protection order, the respondent would temporarily not be able to exercise this right, but the Supreme Court has confirmed that some people may be disqualified from possessing firearms. [*][b]The Fourth Amendment[/b]: Two states introducing preemptive bills pointed to the Fourth Amendment, which protects against unreasonable searches and seizures and requires probable cause to issue a warrant. All laws required probable cause (or higher) for a warrant; one law allowed for warrantless firearm removal, which the Supreme Court considers reasonable when a person is armed and presently dangerous.[*][b]The Fifth Amendment[/b]: State legislators argued that red flag laws violate the right to due process, which requires procedures that provide notice, an opportunity to be heard, and appeal. However, all existing red flag laws provide these due process protections, including requiring strict or heightened burden of proof standards for final orders removing firearms. [/ul]
So I think Facebook posts might not qualify to deny 2nd Amendment rights.
The majority of guns purchased for or used for mass murder are legally purchased and are as easily purchased as buying a happy meal at McDonalds. Background checks? Not only are the gun advocates & NRA opposed to background checks, most if not all the mass murderers would or have passed any background check required.
A waiting period? Thats unconstitutional. I want my AR-15 now. & you shall have it now.
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And,
if the right wing goes ballistic over denying Trump & his ilk from posting lies on social media, what makes anyone believe there would be support to investigate John Q Citizen for posts? & then not only denying posting rights but reporting posters to some government agency and/or court capable of removing your right to purchase a gun?
1st question, who would be responsible for monitoring posts? The government? Facebook? Twit?
2nd question, what would these laws look like?
3rd Question, who would support laws like these to investigate all your postings?
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There was no shortage of cops ready to bust down that door, there was an epic failure at leadership by one man.
Really?
I dont agree with that at all
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I have been around quite a few tense situations in the Air Force and I know for a fact if this was happening with the men I was involved with it they would all said F it were going in
Guaranteed
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You saw that immediately when the border patrol got there and went right in
There was a total and absolute lack of courage by local law enforcement
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[link=https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/08/uvalde-school-shooting-ag-garland-appoints-team-to-review-police-response.html] AG Garland appoints DOJ team to review police response to Uvalde school shooting
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Holy sheet. The police chief now says that he never considered himself to be the incident commander…..
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Cya
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He says he didn’t bring his phone to the command post because he wanted to “have both hands on my gun”. Therefore, he didn’t get any of the updates about 911 calls coming from inside the classroom.
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Texas Police Want Uvalde Bodycam Footage Suppressed[/h1]
The Texas Department of Public Safety has asked the states Office of the Attorney General to prevent the public release of police body camera footage from the mass shooting at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde in part because, it argues, the footage could be used by other shooters to determine weaknesses in police response to crimes, [link=https://www.vice.com/en/article/jgpe3g/texas-police-say-body-camera-footage-from-uvalde-could-be-used-to-find-weakness-by-other-shooters-ask-ag-to-suppress-it]Vice News[/link] reports.-
“Weakness” as in not responsive. Comatose. Afraid.
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[link=https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2022/06/21/officer-husband-of-slain-uvalde-teacher-was-detained-had-gun-taken-away-after-trying-to-save-wife/?__vfz=medium%3Dsharebar]https://www.ksat.com/news…_vfz=medium%3Dsharebar[/link]
Just when you think it can’t get any worse for the Uvalde LEO response …
[blockquote] Shocking testimony from the Texas DPS director on Tuesday has revealed even more insight into the [link=https://www.ksat.com/news/national/2022/06/21/texas-leader-says-uvalde-police-response-an-abject-failure/]abject failure [/link]of response to the Uvalde shooting that occurred on May 24.
Texas Department of Public Safety Director Col. Steven McCraw revealed that the husband of slain elementary teacher Eva Mireles tried to save her but was barred from doing so.
Ruben Ruiz is a police officer for the school district and was on the scene after the gunman entered the school and opened fire.
McCraw said Mireles called Ruiz and told him that she had been shot and was dying.
And what happened to him, is he tried to move forward into the hallway, McCraw said. He was detained and they took his gun away from him and escorted him off the scene.
[/blockquote]-
Yeah, I had heard about that earlier.
Shameful cowards doesn’t even begin to describe these “Good Guys with Guns” too afraid to go in themselves & stopping anyone else form doing it. Gues the equal fear was that it would make their cowardice apparent.-
Getting monotonous.
Another shooting. In Chicago suburb during July 4 parade. 6 dead, more than 2 dozen wounded at last count. Prep still at large, described as white male, 18-20, long black hair, shooting from rooftop.
Cant wait to find that gun legally purchased.-
Quote from Frumious
Getting monotonous.
Another shooting. In Chicago suburb during July 4 parade. 6 dead, more than 2 dozen wounded at last count. Prep still at large, described as white male, 18-20, long black hair, shooting from rooftop.
Cant wait to find that gun legally purchased.
Bummer that Biden fosters such a ‘climate of divisiveness’ that causes these things to happen.
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Oh Puh-lese.
Thats right up there with Obama being the most divisive president ever because he is Black, a Muslim and born in Kenya and hates White people-
The aunt Minnie constitutional scholar and resident legal expert is owning the libs today
Yay
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Quote from Chirorad84
The aunt Minnie constitutional scholar and resident legal expert is owning the libs today
Yay
Oh cool. You are stalking them.
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Quote from Frumious
Oh Puh-lese.
Thats right up there with Obama being the most divisive president ever because he is Black, a Muslim and born in Kenya and hates White people
You are soo right, it’s not the president who makes nutters do nutter things.
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Quote from fw
Quote from Frumious
Oh Puh-lese.
Thats right up there with Obama being the most divisive president ever because he is Black, a Muslim and born in Kenya and hates White people
You are soo right, it’s not the president who makes nutters do nutter things.
Should I be surprised at how badly they both missed the irony?
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Quote from fw
You are soo right, it’s not the president who makes nutters do nutter things.
Ah, a both sides argument.
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Thats the go to line
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Another white Nationalist decides to shoot people
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Thank God! His 2nd Amendment rights were not interfered with.
Police said they found a second rifle in the car and that both rifles were purchased legally in the Chicago area.
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Quote from Frumious
Thank God! His 2nd Amendment rights were not interfered with.
Police said they found a second rifle in the car and that both rifles were purchased legally in the Chicago area.
I can’t think of any proposal that could survive even a “liberal” SCOTUS that would make buying a rifle a crime in the U.S.
A solution to a case like this will require actually doing something with the discovery of this wack job’s violent online presence. Apparently, he was active in online violent extremist discussion for quite a while from the reporting I’ve heard on NPR. He even rapped and made music videos about it. Did we miss him entirely or did we fail in our ability to control his “right” to purchase a gun once he made it clear what his intentions were? -
Picture on news stations shows the creepy shooter wrapped in a trump flag
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Quote from Chirorad84
Picture on news stations shows the creepy shooter wrapped in a trump flag
Also show him wearing a ‘where’s Waldo’ outfit at a Trump event and fashioned himself as ‘Agent 47’ from the ‘Hitman’ first person shooter game.
Maybe he’s a trumper, with all the other costumes and cosplay it seems more of a sign of his overall confused messed up brain.
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Nice Frumi. An article that would make fw proud. Enforce the laws that are on the books.
The tool to invoke a red flag law existed and nobody took the tool out of the box. -
Quote from Thread Killer
I can’t think of any proposal that could survive even a “liberal” SCOTUS that would make buying a rifle a crime in the U.S.
A solution to a case like this will require actually doing something with the discovery of this wack job’s violent online presence. Apparently, he was active in online violent extremist discussion for quite a while from the reporting I’ve heard on NPR. He even rapped and made music videos about it. Did we miss him entirely or did we fail in our ability to control his “right” to purchase a gun once he made it clear what his intentions were?
This happened in a town with a local ‘assault weapons ban’, a state with rifle purchase restrictions for anyone under 21 and a statewide ‘red flag law’. The perpetrator had prior incidents of threatening family and expressing suicidal ideations.
I think ‘enforcing the gun laws we already have’ would be a good start. -
They did it well in Richmond, VA
[link=https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/police-say-tip-helped-thwart-shooting-allegedly-planned-at-july-fourth-celebration/ar-AAZhJCl]Police say tip helped thwart shooting allegedly planned at July Fourth celebration (msn.com)[/link] -
Quote from fw
This happened in a town with a local ‘assault weapons ban’, a state with rifle purchase restrictions for anyone under 21 and a statewide ‘red flag law’. The perpetrator had prior incidents of threatening family and expressing suicidal ideations.
I think ‘enforcing the gun laws we already have’ would be a good start.
Enforce what exactly? Most importantly, how. How?
Daddy signed and vouched for his ability to purchase guns as I understand it.
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That 4th of July parade obviously had too many doors
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[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/06/us/highland-park-shooting-guns.html]https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/06/us/highland-park-shooting-guns.html[/link]
The Highland Park police had filed a clear and present danger report about Mr. Crimo in September 2019 after seizing 16 knives, a dagger and a sword from his home while responding to reports that he had been making threats. According to the State Police, his father told officers that he owned the knives, and they were all returned the same day. It was the second time that year the police responded to reports about Mr. Crimos behavior; the first involved a report of an attempted suicide.
But Mr. Kelly, the State Police director, said the Highland Park report did not clear the legal threshold to determine that Mr. Crimo, who denied to officers that he wanted to hurt himself or others, was a clear and present danger.
Mr. Kelly said that how well gun laws work rested not only on law enforcement, but on the vigilance and follow-through of family members and friends.
This is so dependent upon the people that may be closest around the individual of concern, the person that may be posing a threat to themselves, or the person that may be posing a threat to others, Mr. Kelly said.
Under the policies in place at that time, Mr. Kelly said the state would not still have had a copy of that report from the Highland Park police when Mr. Crimo sought a Firearm Owners Identification card three months later with the sponsorship of his father. He had no disqualifying convictions, no restraining orders, no psychiatric admissions, no clear and present danger designations when he sought permission to own guns. He was approved.
By the end of 2020, he had bought several guns, including the Smith & Wesson semiautomatic rifle that police say was used in Mondays attack and another rifle found in his car when he was arrested.There is no indication that a firearm restraining order was ever sought in Mr. Crimos case, despite his troubling behavior. This presents one of the difficult realities of legislating for public safety: Red flag laws only come into play when someone who is close to a potentially dangerous gun owner seeks an order.
This was a textbook case of a red flag law that was not used, said John Feinblatt, president of Everytown for Gun Safety, which has called for more restrictive gun laws. The tool to invoke a red flag law existed and nobody took the tool out of the box.
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[link=https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/uvalde-texas-house-representatives-report-1.6523373]
First responders who rushed to Uvalde school shooting did not prioritize saving lives, new report says
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[hr]
[link=https://globalnews.ca/news/8996535/uvalde-families-report-police-failure-elementary-school-shooting/]
[/link]Nearly 400 law enforcement officials rushed to a mass shooting at a Uvalde elementary school, but “egregiously poor decision-making” resulted in more than an hour of chaos before the gunman who took 21 lives was finally confronted and killed, according to a damning investigative report released Sunday.
The [link=https://www.kxan.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/40/2022/07/Robb-Elementary-Investigative-Committee-Report-Fullsize.pdf]nearly 80-page report[/link] was the first to criticize both state and federal law enforcement, and not just local authorities in the Texas town, for the bewildering inaction by heavily armed officers as a gunman fired inside a fourth-grade classroom.
“At Robb Elementary, law enforcement responders failed to adhere to their active shooter training, and they failed to prioritize saving innocent lives over their own safety,” the report said.
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ps — heard on the internetz:
Republicans are the school shooter.
Democrats are the Uvalde police.-
In related news, a shooting in a Indiana mall ended quickly when a legally armed citizen offed the perpetrator. Regrettably, still three fatals, but it could have been worse. Not the first time that has happened.
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Yay
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Just imagine what damage a kid could do with military designed weapons like an AR-15 or Sig Sauer M400 if they were actually trained in urban warfare with these weapons.
The deaths of a few innocents are more than acceptable to preserve our 2nd Amendment freedom as newly defined by the Supreme Court.
Thoughts and prayers. That’s all that’s necessary. That’s all that will be done while waiting for the next mass murder.
YAY! -
Just imagine what damage a kid could do with military designed weapons like an AR-15 or Sig Sauer M400 if they were actually trained in urban warfare with these weapons.
The deaths of a few innocents are more than acceptable to preserve our 2nd Amendment freedom as newly defined by the Supreme Court.
Thoughts and prayers. That’s all that’s necessary. That’s all that will be done while waiting for the next mass murder.
YAY! -
Just imagine what damage a kid could do with military designed weapons like an AR-15 or Sig Sauer M400 if they were actually trained in urban warfare with these weapons.
The deaths of a few innocents, including children, are more than acceptable to preserve our 2nd Amendment freedom as newly defined by the Supreme Court.
Thoughts and prayers. That’s all that’s necessary. That’s all that will be done while waiting for the next mass murder.
YAY! -
Just imagine what damage a kid could do with military designed weapons like an AR-15 or Sig Sauer M400 if they were actually trained in urban warfare with these weapons.
The deaths of a few innocents, including children, are more than acceptable to preserve our 2nd Amendment freedom as newly defined by the Supreme Court. AND the Indiana legislature!
Thoughts and prayers. That’s all that’s necessary. That’s all that will be done while waiting for the next mass murder.
YAY!
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3 dead. 3 more injured. Yeah… I suppose “ended quickly” is nice.
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Yay
Only 3
Yay
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Apparently this judge does not agree to limiting gun ownership to 21 & over, he rules 18 & over, just like the Founders did. Originalism.
Why limit to 18 & over then. Very easy to imagine 14 or 12 or even 10 year olds with guns during the Founders era. We should adopt the identical outlook, 12 year olds with a Glock or AR. Why not? Originalism demands it!
[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/25/us/texas-handguns-under-21.html]https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/25/us/texas-handguns-under-21.html[/link]A federal judge in Fort Worth struck down a Texas law on Thursday that prohibits adults under 21 from carrying handguns, on the grounds that the restriction violated the Second Amendment.
In Texas, 18- to 20-year-olds are generally prohibited from obtaining a license to carry a handgun. But last year, a state law went into effect that made adults in that age group eligible for a license to carry a handgun if they were covered under [link=https://guides.sll.texas.gov/gun-laws/license-to-carry#:~:text=Normally%2C%20Texans%20must%20be%20at,or%20magistrate’s%20emergency%20protective%20orders.]certain protective orders[/link]. Exceptions also exist for military personnel and honorably discharged veterans.
A lawsuit brought against the state [link=https://thetexan.news/lawsuit-aims-to-expand-handgun-carry-in-texas-to-18-to-20-year-olds/]in November 2021[/link] by two adult plaintiffs under 21 and the Firearms Policy Coalition, a gun-rights advocacy nonprofit, challenged the constitutionality of the statute. The lawsuit argued that 18- to 20-year-old adults were fully protected by the Second Amendment at the time of its ratification.[b]In his ruling, U.S. District Judge Mark T. Pittman of the Northern District of Texas wrote that the Second Amendment, as informed by Founding-era history and tradition, did not exclude 18- to 20-year-olds from the right to bear arms.[/b]
His ruling and a statement by the Firearms Policy Coalition were couched in the language of originalism, the theory that the Constitution and other texts must be interpreted the same they would have been at the time they were written. That interpretation is favored by the Supreme Courts conservative majority and groups like the powerful Federalist Society. Judge Pittman is a former vice president and founding member of the Fort Worth chapter of the group.
This decision is a significant victory for the rights of young adults in Texas and demonstrates for the rest of the nation that similar bans cannot withstand constitutional challenges grounded in history, Cody J. Wisniewski, a senior attorney for constitutional litigation at the Firearms Policy Coalition, said in a statement, noting that many people ages 17 to 20 fought in the American Revolution. He added: Texas cannot point to a single Founding-era law that prohibited 18- to 20-year-olds from carrying a functional firearm for self-defense.
Mr. Wisniewski, of the Firearms Policy Coalition, said the group was committed to pressing its aggressive view of gun rights.
We look forward to restoring the right to keep and bear arms throughout the United States in the coming months and years, he said.
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Uvaldes school district suspends entire police force
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Quote from dergon
Uvaldes school district suspends entire police force
A department that shouldn’t exist in the first place.
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took ’em long enough
[link=https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/redirect-to/?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nbcnews.com%2Fnews%2Fus-news%2Fuvalde-schools-police-chief-pete-arredondo-fired-botched-response-shoo-rcna39025]https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news…shoo-rcna39025[/link]
Uvalde schools police chief Pete Arredondo fired over botched response to shooting that killed 19 students and 2 teachers-
I think the dude is still the mayor or something crazy like that.
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
I think the dude is still the mayor or something crazy like that.
Yup. Got elected to the city council right around the time of the shooting. Now the ‘City of Uvalde’ and the countywide ‘Uvalde ISD’ are separate entities, so its not like he got elected to the body that supervised him.-
New York Times does analysis on videos of Uvalde. While the school police chief was singled out for blame, there were 360 officers – “good guys with guns” – who did nothing despite training that they must do something besides holding their putzes.
[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/12/us/uvalde-shooting-police-response-investigation.html?unlocked_article_code=BzpdjlbwPX2suSOUIp_Py1pQksgDBRIjnz6a81esQgKjSIMf-ZV9F30k4gg76hSMowMoQKsy6-QJWw1QJH-Alv7eQmwV6YuqgSvD8j2EYIwKrK7eMDFBUg-_oRffdQ3n3MriTgP5DmxIOiQNdQe_updWqeVJtsOA7472CA_i0xfHIhV8sz5BEJ1LbaO2xvdtGA87PXOFvr3LHApUOscKdT0D8iBZBg5GXgL7iKxWlb1Tl5QjXT8j_e5H5j_dAk8qrVAsxITHRr5YPLGLZXcpQFHHBb34WgJ535VANYpUtY9OmSKokGZ7GjSNkaqwEn_5MRtNT8z5mdcDtuNjDTY2ZSJAHp7HwTZMdWsIlTIysT_Y&smid=share-url]https://www.nytimes.com/2…T_Y&smid=share-url[/link]
Visual evidence from the scene, while limited, indicates the problem was not simply one incompetent school police chief, or officers who knew better, but failed to take action. The available footage shows high-ranking officers, experienced state troopers, police academy instructors even federal SWAT specialists came to the same conclusions and were detoured by the same delays the school police chief has been condemned for causing.
Three days after the shooting, D.P.S.s director, Steven McCraw, announced his investigative team had identified why the police took 77 minutes to kill the gunman. Mr. McCraw said every officer was trained to immediately neutralize active shooters, but they were hamstrung when the incident commander, Pete Arredondo, wrongly determined the gunman was a so-called barricaded subject, which calls for a slower, more deliberate response.
But claims by Mr. McCraw that Mr. Arredondo stymied 360 officers with flawed orders or misinformation are not supported by the available footage, which shows little evidence that commands were issued by the school chief, let alone widely communicated.
The available footage shows the D.P.S. [link=https://www.dps.texas.gov/news/senate-special-committee-protect-all-texans-dps-presentation-materials]timeline[/link] which Mr. McCraw told lawmakers was corroborated by frame-by-frame video analysis miscast Mr. Arredondos role and omitted actions, and inaction, by other officers, especially D.P.S. troopers and federal agents, who were involved earlier or more centrally than it notes.
Footage shows BORTAC, the Border Patrols elite tactical agents, took charge about halfway into the response, and learned right away that children were trapped inside with the gunman. But it took 37 minutes of planning, testing keys and readying equipment before BORTAC breached the classrooms.
In an interview with The Times last week, Mr. McCraw said the response was a multi-agency failure and that no officer would escape scrutiny.
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[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/03/28/nashville-school-shooting-bodycam-footage/]https://www.washingtonpos…oting-bodycam-footage/[/link]
Body cam footage from Nashville school shooting released.
Stark contrast to Uvalde. Team goes right in and makes quick steady progress until the confront the shooter and end it.-
per NYT:
[i]The assailant … had legally purchased seven firearms recently including the three used in the shooting and was being treated for an emotional disorder. The shooter, was under doctors care… Chief Drake added that the shooters parents felt that their child should not own weapons.[/i]
So to me, this is another case where more meaningful background checks could have stopped this. It won’t come close to solving everything, but no excuse not to do that.
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Well, if you dont do background checks and are opposed to such as is Tenn, what should anyone expect?
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it seems like someone who shouldn’t have a gun. Parent’s thought the same. Person had emotional issues. There needs to be common sense legislation that stops this type of person from this BS legally purchasing 7 guns. There’s gun legislation that most Americans support but congress will not do jack squat because they’re owned by lobbyist. I’m not even thinking along the lines of banning AR-15s. Red Flag the bejesus out of this person.
Same BS happened at Sandy Hook. Parents seemed to know thay kid was bat sharts crazy. What’d mom do? Bought him a gun.
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Let’s not blame just Congress. In Tenn alone, LEOs requested that safeguards not be stripped but their legislators believe otherwise.
No restrictions allowed for gns even in the hands of domestic terrorists and known emotionally disturbed people. All that nonsense about the shooter just being crazy & “we need to stop crazy people” while supporting legislation that actually allows crazy people to get as much arms as they desire shows the lie for what it is.-
why not blame congress? They have the power legislate for the whole country. In my mind it’s going to take a national type of background check being done. Something that can comprehensively look into local, state, federal policing records. It probably needs to know if people have been diagnosed with some kind of mental illness that should prevent them from owning a gun. Red flags in the system for abusers. It should also have stiff punishment for people that game the system, or make false claims. Like red flagging someone who shouldn’t have a red flag. It has to be a comprehensive system. I’m not against making people take firearm classes to own a gun either. Penalties for not securing your gun properly at home. Too many kids die from playing with dad’s gun he left out.
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