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Time for a Third Party?
Everyone was concerned that Donald Trump would spur a third party candidacy that would splinter the GOP. The more likely scenario is the rise of a third party to challenge the Democrat party.
Democrats have lost control of their party. They allowed Obama to drag them into a hole. With Hillary tanking, Debbie Wasserman-Schultz is furiously trying to plug the dike (no pun intended) by limiting debate and dialog. O’Malley is screaming FOUL! Sanders is proudly wearing the socialist badge. Crazy uncle Biden is waiting in the wings as the designated savior. A radicalized Democrat Congressional caucus has sided with every radical and divisive liberal cause, such as Black Lives Matter, Planned Parenthood, Occupy Wall Street, abdication of US power, war on the wealthy, war on business, Obamacare, Ayatollah worship, support of illegal immigration, support of the welfare state… etc. Democrats have abandoned middle America. Blue collar America is leaving the Democrat party in droves. There is no longer room in the Democrat party for Thomas Jefferson, John F Kennedy or Daniel Moynihan. The kooks are now firmly in charge.
I see a third party challenge to the Democrats. It may happen sooner than we think. -
149 Replies
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As Harry said to Lloyd
[i]Just when I think you couldnt possibly get any dumber………………………[b]You totally redeem yourself[/b][/i] -
Likelihood of a third party run that gets more than 3% of the vote in order of most to least 2016:
1) Trump
2) Libertarian
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3) Anything from the left.
Sanders is actually doing a great service to Hillary. He will keep the far left energized, but in the end he will 100% without a doubt give a full throated endorsement to the Democratic Presidential nominee.
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Maybe in a time frame of 5-15 years the US might see a third party coming from the left on some big issue, but not this campaign.
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Quote from dergon
Sanders is actually doing a great service to Hillary. He will keep the far left energized, but in the end he will 100% without a doubt give a full throated endorsement to the Democratic Presidential nominee.
NOT! In the absence of a third party, they will go to Trump. Many of those Sanders voters are the disaffected know-nothing vote. Now they have the excuse that Trump is not really a conservative, so they will flock to “the strong horse”
As per kpack’s comment… don’t let frustration get the better of you. Harness that anger for something productive.-
I’m going to go with dergon on this one. (Someone get the smelling salts.)
I don’t think people who support a Socialist will be able to stomach the epitome of capitalists.
A Trump third party run would guarantee a Democrat win. IF the Republican establishment forces him out of the party, Trump might pull a Ross Perot just to spite them, which would hurt the country he wants to make great again. But I think if he legitimately falls behind, he will back the Republican nominee.
We have a long way to go before any of this will shake out.
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This seems like an interesting candidate…
[link=http://m.eonline.com/news/674200/dan-bilzerian-running-for-president-and-his-first-campaign-video-features-boobs-butts-and-wild-pool-parties]http://m.eonline.com/news…-and-wild-pool-parties[/link]
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Quote from aldadoc
Quote from dergon
Sanders is actually doing a great service to Hillary. He will keep the far left energized, but in the end he will 100% without a doubt give a full throated endorsement to the Democratic Presidential nominee.
NOT! In the absence of a third party, they will go to Trump. Many of those Sanders voters are the disaffected know-nothing vote. Now they have the excuse that Trump is not really a conservative, so they will flock to “the strong horse”
Quote from DoctorDalai
I’m going to go with dergon on this one. (Someone get the smelling salts.)
I don’t think people who support a Socialist will be able to stomach the epitome of capitalists.
It’s happening …Sanders supporters coming over to Clinton quickly.[url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/06/26/donald-trumps-bad-month-just-got-worse-because-bernie-backers-just-rallied-to-clinton/]Donald Trumps bad month just got worse, because Sanders backers just rallied to Clinton[/url]
A new Washington Post-ABC News poll shows that Sanders backers, who polls have shown were reluctant to jump over to Clinton and even flirted with supporting Trump, are coming home faster than we might have expected.
Last month, 20 percent of Sanders supporters said they would back Trump over Clinton in the general election. This month, that figure is down to 8 percent.
And the poll was conducted before, we would note, Sanders began saying last week that he would support Clinton over Trump in the general election. (Even as he’s not endorsing Clinton and is still technically a candidate, Sanders said his supporters would and should not vote for a “bigot” like Trump.)-
Gary Johnson: [url=http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/07/trump-vp-gary-johnson-bill-weld-libertarian-214069]The GOP Is a Dying Party. Thats Why Im Running Against Trump.[/url]
s a former Republican, Im shocked that the party of Abraham Lincoln is nominating a man with a vision of America that doesnt even resemble that of the party I once knew. And his vice presidential pick, Mike Pence, who as governor of Indiana has left a record of division in his state, only makes matters worse.
Despite the calls at the GOP convention in Cleveland for national unity, Donald Trump sees our country as a land of exclusion. He wants Americans to act as powerless serfs bullied by someone who says he will protect them. Throughout world history, that has been the calling card of Big Government autocrats.
The Republican Party is on its way to becoming like the Whigs. The Whigs died, then a new party came forward with an inspiring and positive vision for America … We in the Libertarian Party hope to do the same. We start out from a fundamental premise: As Americans, we believe in freedom. Every individual has dignity and is worthy of civility and respect. The core of our character is one of generous and enlightened self-interest: Every man and woman has the right to choose what to do with their time, their talents and their lives.
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Maybe Dergon was right and I was wrong. It sure looks as if Trump successfully killed the GOP. I can’t see how they recover from this debacle. Im hoping for a new Conservative party to form.
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I’m personally hoping for a new center party
Let the extremist on both sides hose themselves instead of commanders have the party
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The GOP got caught up on being against things and forgot what principles they used to stand up for. The boos that Cruz got at the convention on the behest of the Trumpist organizers are a scary thing. Those who would boo the founding principles of the GOP, scoff at small government and personal freedom and hiss when asked to vote their conscience are not worthy of my support. I’m aghast at the massive sellout in favor of a know-nothing narcissist charlatan.
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Still supporting the sore loser, even with the risk of getting HRC, the most corrupt of them all, elected, alda? It’s sad.
Cruz has no class and showed he was the whiny, self serving preacher type we all thought he was.
Did he give a good speech? I think he did. He just keeps carving out this very thin section of impossible to win constituency, and doesn’t realize that the only chance you have bringing this ever expanding gov’t is to elect Trump. If you don’t win, you can’t do jack squat. If you let HRC win, the country is lost for certain.
The country hasn’t paid attention to the Constitution for 30 years, and actually most of the 20th century it didn’t either.
Trumps policies are, and have been, among the most conservative around. What’s more? He won’t back down and he plays by THEIR rules, whereas every other “Republican” in recent memory was just fine with losing (to enrich and keep the elite game going).
Start thinking big picture, not small picture snake oil salesman, man.
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Quote from aldadoc
Quote from dergon
Sanders is actually doing a great service to Hillary. He will keep the far left energized, but in the end he will 100% without a doubt give a full throated endorsement to the Democratic Presidential nominee.
NOT! In the absence of a third party, they will go to Trump. Many of those Sanders voters are the disaffected know-nothing vote. Now they have the excuse that Trump is not really a conservative, so they will flock to “the strong horse”
I hardly know what to say. It seems laughably detached from reality to believe that any significant percentage of Sanders supporters would somehow find attractive a Donald Trump Presidency.
There is virtually zero cross-over appeal on either issues or persona.
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Kool Aid is not generally served at Sanders’ events but is freely given and taken at Trumps’. That might be a factor.
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Ross has some observations about the Trump campaign & support.
[link=http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/30/opinion/sunday/ross-douthat-donald-trump-traitor-to-his-class.html]http://www.nytimes.com/20…itor-to-his-class.html[/link]
Trump is essentially using the Republican primary to run a third-party campaign, not a right-wing insurgency.
So far hes running against the Republican establishment in a more profound way than the Tea Party, challenging not just deviations from official conservative principle but the entire post-Reagan conservative matrix. He can wax right wing on immigration one moment and promise to [link=http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2015/08/24/trump-assails-hedge-fund-guys/32254433/]tax hedge fund managers[/link] the next. Hell [link=http://www.nytimes.com/live/republican-debate-election-2016-cleveland/trump-on-political-correctness/]attack political correctness[/link] and then [link=http://dailysignal.com/2015/05/21/why-donald-trump-wont-touch-your-entitlements/]pledge to protect entitlements[/link]. He can sound [link=http://www.forbes.com/sites/doliaestevez/2015/06/19/donald-trumps-threat-to-force-ford-to-scrap-expansion-plan-in-mexico-very-unlikely-under-nafta/]like Pat Buchanan on trade[/link] and [link=http://reason.com/blog/2015/08/07/that-time-when-donald-trump-praised-sing]Bernie Sanders on health care[/link]. He regularly attacks [link=http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/08/16/donald_trump_puppet_jeb_bush_should_apologize_for_defending_iraq_war.html]the entire Iraq misadventure[/link], in its Bush-era and Obama-era manifestations alike, in a way that neither mainstream Republicans nor Hillary Clinton can plausibly manage.
He wont [i](win)[/i], of course, but it matters a great deal how he loses. In a healthy two-party system, the [link=http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/r/republican_party/index.html?inline=nyt-org]G.O.P.[/link] would treat Trumps strange success as evidence that the partys basic orientation may need to change substantially, so that it looks less like a tool of moneyed interests and more like a vehicle for [link=http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/why-donald-trump-makes-sense-to-a-lot-of-voters–even-some-democrats/2015/08/15/cee648f0-42bf-11e5-8ab4-c73967a143d3_story.html]middle American discontent[/link].
In an unhealthy system, the kind I suspect we inhabit, the Republicans will find a way to crush Trump [i]without [/i]adapting to his message. In which case the pressure the Donald has tapped will continue to build and when it bursts, the G.O.P. as we know it may go with it.
Trump’s campaign is not attractive to Sanders’ supporters. Trump is anathema in spite of saying some things that many on the Left support. Overall Trump is anything but a cross-over candidate.
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Trump is the ultimate candidate troll, proving just how out of touch with reality the Republican base is. Colbert must be proud
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Alda lives in another universe
Totally detached from reality
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The one thing Trump and Sanders have in common is that they’re tapping into the feeling that the middle class isn’t doing that well. Trump will bring back jobs from China, Bernie wants to give away some higher ed.
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Even Democrats loyalists are uncomfortable with the coronation of Hillary. A hapless candidate in the middle of an FBI investigation is not a winning formula.
Debbie Wasserman Shultz has shut down Democrat candidates’ debates. She just shut down any discussion of the Iran deal by blocking a resolution at the DNC meeting. She is clearly clearly afraid to have Democrats discuss any substantial issues. Biden is wavering and probably too late to the party.
Democrats are living in a glass bubble that is on the verge of an internal explosion. O’Malley and Webb are pissed off. Anxiety and angst reigns in the Democrat ranks. Axelrod is losing his hair. This is a classic tug-of war between the Socialists, the Party Elite and the working class Democrats, the perfect scenario for a third party. Why don’t we help them pick a name. How about the “Libertarian Party” or the “New Democrats” or the “American Party”.-
OK
You can get off the ledge now -
and wait a minute
Hasn’t axlerod been bald for years? -
Seriously hasn’t Axlerod been doing the comb over as long as trump has been doing the [b]heat mizer [/b]hair doo
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He is losing his one combover hair. Not his hairs.
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The Combover Party has a nice ring to it.
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Kenye West announced his 2020 candidacy
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another moron who doesn’t know anything
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Quote from fireworksboy;25332719
Rumors have Trump committing to NOT make a third party run should he not get the GOP nomination. 😡 Dang it.[/QUOTE]
Trump doubles back — [url=http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trump-isnt-ruling-independent-run/story?id=35335721] Isnt Ruling Out Independent Run[/url]
Republican presidential frontrunner Donald Trump would not rule out making a run for president as an independent despite signing a pledge over the summer saying he would support the eventual GOP nominee instead of running a third-party bid.
Im going to have to see what happens. I will see what happens. I have to be treated fairly, Trump said Sunday on ABCs This Week when asked about a new guerrilla effort by operatives within the Republican Party to derail Trumps candidacy. When I did this, I said I have to be treated fairly. If Im treated fairly, Im fine. All I want to do is [have] a level playing field.”
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and he is defining what he considers fair
Quote from dergon
Quote from fireworksboy;25332719
Rumors have Trump committing to NOT make a third party run should he not get the GOP nomination. 😡 Dang it.[/QUOTE]
Trump doubles back — [link=http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trump-isnt-ruling-independent-run/story?id=35335721] Isnt Ruling Out Independent Run[/link]
Republican presidential frontrunner Donald Trump would not rule out making a run for president as an independent despite signing a pledge over the summer saying he would support the eventual GOP nominee instead of running a third-party bid.
Im going to have to see what happens. I will see what happens. I have to be treated fairly, Trump said Sunday on ABCs This Week when asked about a new guerrilla effort by operatives within the Republican Party to derail Trumps candidacy. When I did this, I said I have to be treated fairly. If Im treated fairly, Im fine. All I want to do is [have] a level playing field.”
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Quote from sentinel lymph node
and he is defining what he considers fair
Quote from dergon
Quote from fireworksboy;25332719
Rumors have Trump committing to NOT make a third party run should he not get the GOP nomination. 😡 Dang it.[/QUOTE]
Trump doubles back — [link=http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trump-isnt-ruling-independent-run/story?id=35335721] Isnt Ruling Out Independent Run[/link]
Republican presidential frontrunner Donald Trump would not rule out making a run for president as an independent despite signing a pledge over the summer saying he would support the eventual GOP nominee instead of running a third-party bid.
Im going to have to see what happens. I will see what happens. I have to be treated fairly, Trump said Sunday on ABCs This Week when asked about a new guerrilla effort by operatives within the Republican Party to derail Trumps candidacy. When I did this, I said I have to be treated fairly. If Im treated fairly, Im fine. All I want to do is [have] a level playing field.”
Yes, because there is no fair person who can say right now that anyone other than he should be the Republican nominee. I don’t trust the Republicans either.
Only they can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Trump is the only one who will win, and they might sabotage him still. -
Trump’s spokesman Corey Lewandowski on Bloomberg right now saying Trump leaning more toward independent run.
Basically (paraphrase) Trump has [i]already[/i] been treated unfairly by Priebus andthe GOP and that is leaning him closer and closer to going independent.
(btw — Mark Halperin also says that if Trump gets the GOP nomination somehow, one (or more) of the mainstream GOP establishment will run as a third party candidate.)
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[url=http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2015/12/08/poll-trump-cruz-rubio-clinton-sanders/76948760/]Poll finds that 68% of Trump supporters would follow him for an independent candidacy .. Trump instantly tweets it[/url]
That’s right around 10% of the total electorate.
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What exactly has Priebus done to Trump? If Trump falters, it is only because his mouth finally caught up with him or because he didn’t measure up to the other candidates. I have never seen somebody get so much free press. I do have to give him credit for saying what everybody else is thinking but are afraid to say.
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Priebus is being mean to Trump
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Quote from kpack123
Priebus is being mean to Trump
Yes. I mean, listen to this terrible unfair personal attack on Trump’s comments issued by the RNC chair:
“We need to aggressively take on radical Islamic terrorism but not at the expense of our American values.”
I mean, obviously that can only be seen as an unfair personal attack, right? #rollseyes -
So are you saying that the polls that Trump cites are wrong? Forget worldwide, which are atrocious. Our “fellow Americans” don’t share American values.
I’m sick of the lies. Anyone even sympathetic to Shari’a is by definition Anti-American.
When are you guys gonna wake up? This “religion” has been cloaked in deception since its origin. It has never been a “religion” in the way you look at it. It is a political system first and foremost, with invocation of God. People better wise up to it because it is the truth.
Do you even know what the “Sunna” is that makes one a “Sunni” muslim? I hear that there are 1.5 billion muslims in the world. Do you know how many claim to be “Sunnis” and what that means?
I’m exposing all of the lies. The sad thing is that if anyone cared to pay attention, this wouldn’t be necessary. -
[b]I’m exposing all of the lies. [/b]
Gold 3500$
Nothing else to say -
Perhaps Cigar you would like to define for us “American” values
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Think about it… [size=”0″]If Trump really does not want to be President…what would you advise him to do?[/size]
[size=”0″]Probably exactly what he is doing.[/size]
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[url=http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/first-read-why-gop-will-fight-trump-until-bitter-end-n476866] why the GOP will fight to the bitter end to stop Trump[/url]
Republicans face this choice 50-plus days until Iowa: Do they fight Trump? Or do they surrender? According to the Republicans who are in charge of retaining control of the House and Senate, they are looking to fight. (Cleveland, here we come?) The only question is — how? Rep. Greg Walden (R-OR), chairman of the National Republican Congressional Committee, told Politico that Trump and his rhetoric could cost the GOP, big time. “It puts, certainly, competitive seats in jeopardy. We’ll have a much more difficult time.” Walden’s deputy, Rep. Steve Stivers (R-OH), was more pointed, telling Politico: “There are people that couldn’t win if he was our nominee.” And that’s from House Republicans — not Senate Republicans, who are much more in danger of losing their majority. Our prediction: The Republican Party will not surrender and let Trump be its nominee without a protracted fight. The reason: The GOP’s majorities hang in the balance. While none of these folks in charge of winning House/Senate elections want Trump at the top of the GOP ticket, many MIGHT welcome a Trump independent candidacy. Why? It might giftwrap the presidency for the Democrats, but it would potentially bring more right-leaning folks to the polls, and there aren’t many three-way races down the ballot. Could a Trump indie candidacy save the Senate for the GOP?
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Interesting idea. We’ll see how the GOP handles this, if they still insist on no independent run or start talking about almost encouraging an independent run.
The other possibility is Trump wins the candidacy. Will there be an independent run by a more mainstream or any of the other candidates? A Trump running still seems to interfere with GOP holding the majority even if another GOP runs independent.
Popcorn. -
Yes it will be interesting.
[i][b]As interesting as no one on this board ever answering my questions about Muhammad, Sunni Islam, or Shari’a. These are all the basis for mainstream Islam.[/b][/i]
Crickets again. The truth will not be hidden, though indeed we can ignore it by our own will. -
Quote from kpack123
[b]I’m exposing all of the lies. [/b]
Gold 3500$
Nothing else to say
You have nothing else to say because you are a distractor, a deceiver, and a political hack not interested in representing reality. You can’t answer certain questions or topics so you start talking about other things, other people, which is straight from the playbook of the original liar.
When we don’t want to face the truth, we distract.
You’re not fooling anyone, kpack. Just yourself. -
No
You were absolutely and undeniably convinced about that prediction too
and we see how that turned out
Did you ever think you might be wrong………………again
or at least not 1000% right
because you were pretty darn sure Gold was going to 3500…………….and im guessing you are stubborn enough and delusion to stilll think it is -
A prediction is a prediction.
What I’m saying about what Islam teaches is a fact.
Is logic or reasoning, truthful reporting hard for you?
What Islam teaches, what Muhammad did, and what the Sunna are … are not equivalent to who is going to win the super bowl.
Are you brain dead? -
I don’t care about sky fairies or some 4000 yr old text. Should I say that all Christian theology is based out of the Book of Revelations? Your projection based out of ignorance and hatred of Muslims is irrelevant anyway. More concerned with the here and now so want to tell me what you think are current American values???
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Maybe you’ll get your wish for a 3rd Party, Alda. At least Politico is considering the possibility.
[link=http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/12/donald-trump-2016-third-party-bid-213449]http://www.politico.com/m…third-party-bid-213449[/link]
Donald Trump may have eased some Republican fears Tuesday night when he declared his intention to stay inside the party. But if their angst has been temporarily eased at the prospect of what he would do if he loses, they still face a far more troubling, and increasingly plausible, question.
What happens to the party if he wins?
With Donald Trump as its standard-bearer, the GOP would suddenly be asked to rally around a candidate who has been called by his once and former primary foes a cancer on conservatism, unhinged a drunk driverhelping the enemy. A prominent conservative national security expert, Max Boot, has labeled him flatly a fascist. And the rhetoric is even stronger in private conversations Ive had recently with Republicans of moderate and conservative stripes.
This is not the usual rhetoric of intra-party battles, the kind of thing that gets resolved in handshakes under the convention banners. These are stake-in-the-ground positions, strongly suggesting that a Trump nomination would create a fissure within the party as deep and indivisible as any in American political history, driven both by ideology and by questions of personal character.
Indeed, it would be a fissure so deep that, if the operatives I talked with are right, a Donald Trump running as a Republican could well face a third-party runfrom the Republicans themselves.-
I read that [i]Politico[/i] piece. That would sure make it exciting.
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Not going to happen. This is a liberal fantasy. Keep dreaming.
Cruz will win this thing anyways, but even if Trump won, there will not be a third party split.
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While the likelihood of any one single GOP chaos event might not be high, the probability of [i]something[/i] drastic happening is higher than it has been for any race in decades.
In order for normal order to be restored either a) Donald Trump will have to fade, and do so quietly and with some graciousness in order to bring his supporters back into the fold and hold to his pledge not to run or b) Trump will have to become the nominee and the GOP will have to fall in line behind him.
I think the former is still a lot more likely. Trump will at some point see the value in getting out and will accept something from the RNC in exchange for (somewhat) quietly exiting the stage.
But there’s still a lot of messiness to go and the possibility of a real rupture remains.-
Secretary of State Donald Trump?
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Quote from dergon
While the likelihood of any one single GOP chaos event might not be high, the probability of [i]something[/i] drastic happening is lower than it has been for any race in decades.
In order for normal order to be restored either a) Donald Trump will have to fade, and do so quietly and with some graciousness in order to bring his supporters back into the fold and hold to his pledge not to run or b) Trump will have to become the nominee and the GOP will have to fall in line behind him.
I think the former is still a lot more likely. Trump will at some point see the value in getting out and will accept something from the RNC in exchange for (somewhat) quietly exiting the stage.
But there’s still a lot of messiness to go and the possibility of a real rupture remains.
Given his lead, and your presumed thoughts on his ego, what would be the “value” for him getting out?
Just wondering. Doesn’t make much sense even if we entertain your ideas.-
Tough to see the end game, I admit. But at some point he might see the writing on the wall and accept a headline speech at the RNC convention or something.
But you are right, his ego and narcissism makes finding a compromise with the GOP that involves Trump [i]not[/i] being the candidate a hard thing to do. Equally hard is believing that the GOP establishment will get in line behind nominee Trump.
Hence why people think [i]something[/i] chaotic could happen.-
to play devil’s advocate–all this talk about female bodily functions, I hope we don’t have male candidates running for president who enjoy golden showers..like yuck
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[link=http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/23/politics/michael-bloomberg-president-2016/]http://www.cnn.com/2016/0…omberg-president-2016/[/link]
Michael Bloomberg said to be considering a run, particularly if the extremes in each party get the nomination. If it’s Cruz/Trump v. Sanders then Bloomberg might get in.
And then the political chatter after that is the possibility that it encourages a mainstream GOP candidate to go 4th party since there would be a likelihood of a deadlocked electoral college in which no candidate gets to 270. In the electoral deadlock scenario the vote would then transfer to the House of Representatives where an establishment GOP candidate would have the inside lane.-
My feeling would be that Bloomberg is DOA. I find him abhorrent and I don’t even live in NYC. Banning sugary drinks, stop and frisk, he’s a tool. although I didn’t think Trump would have made it this far either.
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Sander’s is not a dem ..he is a socialist and has no concept that the dem superdelegates are already with HRC
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dergon, you ready to admit yet that you were wrong and that Donald is in it to win it and he will … win it?
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Not yet on either point.
I am very interested to see how it plays if he doesn’t win Iowa and/or New Hampshire. …. and hoe the establishment GOP responds if he does. -
Even if Trump goes to the convention with a delegate lead, he will not be the Republican nominee. I think they even find a way to pull it from him if he has enough first ballot delegates. The choice of the nominee is the discretion of the party and they can choose their nominee by whatever means they like; sure it would be chaos, but I don’t think you see Trump (R) on a presidential ballot this November
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Thor, anything is posssible, but even with the recent admission by the repub insiders that they’d much rather deal with Trump than Cruz?
The suggestion seemed to be that they would be ok with it, albeit begrudgingly, given the alternative.
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Dan Senor, Romney’s prior campaign chair, says that if Trump gets the nomination then a “conventional republican” will run as 3rd party.
(Although he still says Rubio most likely to win the nomination)
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Interesting. I was thinking there may be a establishment type conservative challenge given the Recent Comments by Romneym Whitman and McConnell
Assuming Trump is the nominee then there is no Conservative on the Ticket. He is been moderate to liberal on most issues throughout his life and some of the Whacko stances he has taken recently are just pandering to Nut jobs or pandering to those who just want to blow up their party and start over.
Could be 1992 with a different spin all over again.-
Why is Romney all of a sudden so invested?
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One reason would be because Romney has an endearing love of the Republican Party and wants to see it saved from it’s potential construction by Donald Trump. There are a number of people in the establishment truly believe that the Trump candidacy poses and exit stencil threat to the party.
Then again, there is the The more simple thought He still wants to be president.
You know what they say: the only cure for wanting to be president is embalming fluid.
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LOL
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I’m watching [i]With All Due Respect[/i] again.
The idea that some mainstream republican will run as an independent should Trump win the nomination is gaining steam.-
Of course it would be harder, but given the lack of trustworthiness and pure treason of the GOP regarding Trump (they were worried HE wouldn’t abide by the pledge, LOL), the emboldening of the current movement with a very unfavorable opinion of Clinton — STILL could make Trump the most awesomely unlikely winner in American history.
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[url=https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2016/02/09/bloomberg-run-would-break-two-party-tyranny/ULrRvb0aSgzKcH5ExWBf0I/story.html]Bloomberg run would break up the two-party tyranny[/url]
Interesting opinion piece. Full disclosure: Yes, the author is Ralph Nader.
Hell emphasize his ability to get things done starting with founding the giant Bloomberg News Company on a shoestring investment 35 years ago. Hell recount his mayoral achievements and the absence of any personal scandals in the snakepit known as New York City politics. But his Wall Street boosterism may not go down well with many potentially defecting voters.
Hell reassure independent and partisan voters that he is the heavyweight in the race who can fix broken politics in Washington. After all, he has been a registered Democrat and Republican, and is presently an independent the ultimate hybrid candidate who knows how to bring people together, as he often did in fractious New York City.Will it work to meet his bottom line that he has a chance to win and avoid being stereotyped with that politically-bigoted word spoiler? His biggest procedural problem is time. The outcomes of the Republican and Democratic party race may not be known until well beyond March, as many had expected.
In addition, it is difficult to perceive what bundle of goals, what exciting horizons, can emanate from a noncharismatic personality who projects a dutiful managerial image but is not about to start shifting power and freedom from the few to the many.
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I think he’s got a reasonable shot. He has money. Money wins elections.
Historically I think it’s almost always been the person spending the most in the presidential race being elected. kind of an interesting chart from NYT as money raising and spending. Hillary’s spent a lot and she’s seemingly the front runner. Whereas Ben Carson’s spent a lot and is clinging on.
[link=http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/us/elections/election-2016-campaign-money-race.html?_r=0]http://www.nytimes.com/in…n-money-race.html?_r=0[/link]-
[url=http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/02/15/trump-warns-rnc-isnt-honoring-pledge-again-floats-independent-bid.html]Trump warns that RNC isn’t honoring it’s side of the deal. Threatens at independent run… again [/url]
Despite taking the pledge five months ago that hed stick with the Republicans regardless of the nominee, Donald Trump nevertheless fired a warning shot Monday at the Republican National Committee with the threat yet again of an independent run for the White House.
The Republican presidential front-runner also threatened to sue rival candidate Ted Cruz regarding his Canadian birth if the Texas senator does not retract alleged lies about Trumps policy positions. Further, Trump called on the RNC to intervene in that fight, and said theyd be violating the pledge if they dont.The RNC better get its act together, Trump said at an earlier campaign stop in South Carolina. I signed a pledge. But the pledge isnt being honored by them.
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clearly they are stacking the audience against him…I was like after SC debate…third party here we come
Quote from dergon
[link=http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/02/15/trump-warns-rnc-isnt-honoring-pledge-again-floats-independent-bid.html]Trump warns that RNC isn’t honoring it’s side of the deal. Threatens at independent run… again [/link]
Despite taking the pledge five months ago that hed stick with the Republicans regardless of the nominee, Donald Trump nevertheless fired a warning shot Monday at the Republican National Committee with the threat yet again of an independent run for the White House.
The Republican presidential front-runner also threatened to sue rival candidate Ted Cruz regarding his Canadian birth if the Texas senator does not retract alleged lies about Trumps policy positions. Further, Trump called on the RNC to intervene in that fight, and said theyd be violating the pledge if they dont.
The RNC better get its act together, Trump said at an earlier campaign stop in South Carolina. I signed a pledge. But the pledge isnt being honored by them.
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Look forward to Trump’s 3rd party run.
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Trump and Bloomberg might be a good slug fest.
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Quote from aldadoc
Everyone was concerned that Donald Trump would spur a third party candidacy that would splinter the GOP. The more likely scenario is the rise of a third party to challenge the Democrat party.
Democrats have lost control of their party. They allowed Obama to drag them into a hole. With Hillary tanking, Debbie Wasserman-Schultz is furiously trying to plug the dike (no pun intended) by limiting debate and dialog. O’Malley is screaming FOUL! Sanders is proudly wearing the socialist badge. Crazy uncle Biden is waiting in the wings as the designated savior. A radicalized Democrat Congressional caucus has sided with every radical and divisive liberal cause, such as Black Lives Matter, Planned Parenthood, Occupy Wall Street, abdication of US power, war on the wealthy, war on business, Obamacare, Ayatollah worship, support of illegal immigration, support of the welfare state… etc. Democrats have abandoned middle America. Blue collar America is leaving the Democrat party in droves. There is no longer room in the Democrat party for Thomas Jefferson, John F Kennedy or Daniel Moynihan. The kooks are now firmly in charge.
I see a third party challenge to the Democrats. It may happen sooner than we think.
Wow. I went back to look at this OP. The mirror image is pretty much true. Just rewrite the names and switch the parties.
“Republicans have lost control of their party. They allowed Trump to drag them into a hole. With Rubio tanking, Reince Priebus is furiously trying to plug the dike (no pun intended) by limiting debate and dialog. Carson is screaming FOUL! Cruz is proudly wearing the evangelical badge badge. Crazy uncle Mitt is waiting in the wings as the designated savior. A radicalized Republican Congressional caucus has sided with every radical and divisive conservative cause, such as DOMA, Defunding Planned Parenthood, the Tea Party,overagressive use of US power, war on brown people and women, war on workers, Obsession with repealing Obamacare, Israel worship, hostility on immigration, dismantlingthe welfare state… etc. Republicans have abandoned middle America. Blue collar America is leaving the Republican party in droves and going to Trump. There is no longer room in the Republcian party for Reagan,George HW Bush. The kooks are now firmly in charge.
I see a third party challenge to the Republicans. It may happen sooner than we think. ”
And the sooner than you think may be darned soon:
[url=http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/03/us/politics/anti-donald-trump-republicans-call-for-a-third-party-option.html]
Anti-Trump Republicans Call for a Third-Party Option[/url][/h1]
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Well you can always bet on the exact opposite when it comes to Aldadoc
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Amazing dergon!
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I am thinking how amazing it is that no one seems to figure it out. The Republicans have so blended with the Dems over the past decade and each of them have been bought (yes, even by Trump) so they act in the same manner for the same gains. Right now due to lack of leadership from the top, they just can’t get anything through Congress. People are sick and tired of this. What Romney did was worsen the situation by making a ridiculous speech hurling insults from a failed candidate. The “establishment” is in utter shock and terror that they may lose control and that includes Fox News, CNN and all the other outlets. The more they do to try to derail him, the more strong Trump gets. Cruz and Rubio sideshow is distracting, but does not do anything to directly harm Trump’s march. This is something that has been brewing for years and the Donald timed his entrance perfectly. I suspect Trump will win MS, Probably MI, I hope FL so big eared little Marco gets out. The biggest mistake the Republicrats could do is broker a convention. Then for sure Trump wins. If you really don’t think Trump will cross the divide and get Democrat votes, you have the same lack of insight as the rest. Why wouldn’t the unions vote for Trump?
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Donald Trump’s problem is that there aren’t enough white men to overcome the losses elsewhere. He will get a fair number of Reagan Democrats ( “lunchpail republicans”) but not enough to make up for black, latinos, and the loss of traditional republican conservatives. Estimates now that he would need 70% of all white men in order to win. That is a historic number, 6 point higher than Reagan’s 1984 landslide.
I suppose it could happen with massive defections of the white working class. But the for every state that Trump as GOP nominee puts in play (MI, OH) he costs even more with loss of Latinos (NV, CO …… 270toWin.com has even Texas in play if Trump Latino support ends as low as he is polling right now).
In a 2-person race Trump v. Clinton it will be very interesting. Both parties will have to attack and defend in parts of the map than in the past. And Trump is very skilled. But it still leans Clinton unless there is a masterful Trump rebrand that ups his non-white support.
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As for the 3-person race —–
Neither the establishment conservative 3rd party effort nor brokering the convention would be about [i]winning[/i] 2016. Sure it would be nice to win, but this is about preserving the Republican brand and not ceding control of the party to a social liberal trade protectionist who favors a large welfare state and whose nativistic anti-immigrant views might negatively brand the party for decades going forward should he be allowed to carry the GOP banner forward throughout an entire general election campaign.
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Are you sure? The Latinos and Blacks love him. He’s hired many, many, many Latinos and blacks. He gets along with everybody.
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The level of Republican dissatisfaction with Trump as potential candidate is unprecedented
[link=http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/republican-voters-kind-of-hate-all-their-choices/]http://fivethirtyeight.co…ate-all-their-choices/[/link]
[img]http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p291/Dergon_Darkhelm/satisfaction_zpsdvzt0jqy.jpg[/img]
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Blomberg is out.
[url=http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-03-07/michael-bloomberg-says-he-won-t-run-for-president-in-2016]Michael Bloomberg Says He Won’t Run for President in 2016[/url]
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He may not run but he can still influence with his $
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
He may not run but he can still influence with his $
He just put out his statement — Clearly anti-Trump (and Cruz)[url=http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2016-03-07/the-2016-election-risk-that-michael-bloomberg-won-t-take]The Risk I Will Not Take[/url]
The fact is, even if I were to receive the most popular votes and the most electoral votes, victory would be highly unlikely, because most members of Congress would vote for their partys nominee. Party loyalists in Congress — not the American people or the Electoral College — would determine the next president.
[b]As the race stands now, with Republicans in charge of both Houses, there is a good chance that my candidacy could lead to the election of Donald Trump or Senator Ted Cruz. That is not a risk I can take in good conscience.[/b]
I have known Mr. Trump casually for many years, and we have always been on friendly terms. I even agreed to appear on The Apprentice — twice. But he has run the most divisive and demagogic presidential campaign I can remember, preying on peoples prejudices and fears. Abraham Lincoln, the father of the Republican Party, appealed to our better angels. Trump appeals to our worst impulses.
Threatening to bar foreign Muslims from entering the country is a direct assault on two of the core values that gave rise to our nation: religious tolerance and the separation of church and state. Attacking and promising to deport millions of Mexicans, feigning ignorance of white supremacists, and threatening China and Japan with a trade war are all dangerously wrong, too. These moves would divide us at home and compromise our moral leadership around the world. The end result would be to embolden our enemies, threaten the security of our allies, and put our own men and women in uniform at greater risk.
We cannot make America great again by turning our backs on the values that made us the worlds greatest nation in the first place. I love our country too much to play a role in electing a candidate who would weaken our unity and darken our future — and so I will not enter the race for president of the United States.-
[i]Politico[/i]: [url=http://www.politico.com/story/2016/03/top-conservatives-gather-to-plot-third-party-run-against-trump-220786]Top conservatives gather to plot third-party run against Trump[/url]
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I feel like they could pull the money together, clone Reagan, and Reagan would lose to Trump.
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[url]http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-05-31/kristol-eyes-conservative-lawyer-for-independent-presidential-run]Bloomberg [i]With All Due Respect[/i] reporting that Bill Kristol’s choice for the conservative alternative candidate is David French.[/url]
David French is a staff writer at National Review, an attorney (concentrating his practice in constitutional law and the law of armed conflict), and a veteran of Operation Iraqi Freedom. He is the author or co-author of several books including, most recently, the No. 1 New York Times bestselling [i]Rise of ISIS: A Threat We Cant Ignore.[/i]
He is a graduate of Harvard Law School, the past president of the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education (FIRE), and a former lecturer at Cornell Law School. He has served as a senior counsel for the American Center for Law and Justice and the Alliance Defending Freedom. David is a major in the United States Army Reserve (IRR). In 2007, he deployed to Iraq, serving in Diyala Province as Squadron Judge Advocate for the 2nd Squadron, 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment, where he was awarded the Bronze Star. He lives and works in Columbia, Tennessee, with his wife, Nancy (who is also a New York Times bestselling author), and three children.
Read more at: [url]http://www.nationalreview.com/author/david-french[/url]
He has never held elective office. He has no national name recognition. He has no personal wealth to put into the race. Pretty much a complete unknown. (Wealth, fame, and political experience were the attributes the #NEverTrump folks were looking for. David French has none.
Thus far he has not officially declared, but apparently this is the guy Kristol was talking about.
I suppose anything can happen… maybe he’ll get a sugar daddy who gives hims a couple hundred million dollars… but I can’t see this making a dent.
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I think enough traditional republicans have fallen in with Trump at this point that the idea of an independent party is over on the republican side. The GOP will back Trump while secretly hoping for a loss so they can try again with Ryan in four years. Sanders is the only wildcard left who could potentially try a third party run. He won’t win but could hurt Hillary in so doing.
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Trump’s got it, it’s so early, HRC is corrupt, she’s an absolute embarrassment and this will become clearer and clearer over time
Dems love an idiot who can’t get the nomination in large part, and that means turnout seals Trump as the next President. No one is going to be excited for corrupt Hillary, they’ll just stay home-
HRC is corrupt. Trump is a fraud. Great choices for POTUS.
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Ken Starr tried very hard to prove the Clintons corrupt & did not & now he’s the target of covering up rape charges in defense of football.
The Gods sometimes have an ironic sense of humor. -
Couple more days like today and it isn’t clear that Trump even makes it to the convention
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bad week…becoming more unhinged each day….needs psych hold imho…Crazy…manic(imho)Warren and HRC and the judge(oh the irony appointed by Obama) are in his head/under his skin
Quote from Thor
Couple more days like today and it isn’t clear that Trump even makes it to the convention
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CNN interviewed this woman who was successful in getting her money back from Trump University…like in NY you can’t just say Noah’s University….pathetic..delusions of grandeur/manic imho
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Quote from dergon
Blomberg is out.
[link=http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-03-07/michael-bloomberg-says-he-won-t-run-for-president-in-2016]Michael Bloomberg Says He Won’t Run for President in 2016[/link]
Quote from DICOM_Dan
He may not run but he can still influence with his $
[url=http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-07-24/michael-bloomberg-to-endorse-hillary-clinton-in-speech-this-week]Bloomberg will endorse Hillary Clinton in prime time speech at Democratic Convention[/url]
As the nations leading independent and a pragmatic business leader Mike has supported candidates from both sides of the aisle, said Howard Wolfson, an adviser to Bloomberg and a former spokesman for Clintons 2008 campaign. This week in Philadelphia he will make a strong case that the clear choice in this election is Hillary Clinton.
The endorsement from the former mayor of New York City could resonate with swing voters and Republicans who havent warmed to their partys nominee, Donald Trump.
Bloomberg, 74, has been critical of fellow New York billionaire Trump and earlier this year mulled an independent run for the White House.-
No third party on the debate stage:
POLITICO: [url=http://www.politico.com/blogs/under-the-radar/2016/08/judge-rejects-suit-against-presidential-debate-commission-226720]Judge rejects third parties suit against debate commission[/url]In a ruling Friday, U.S. District Court Judge Rosemary Collyer dismissed a suit filed last year by the Libertarian and Green parties as well their respective 2012 presidential nominees, former New Mexico Republican Gov. Gary Johnson and Jill Stein. Each also happens to be his or her party’s presidential nominee again this year.
Collyer’s ruling found little, if any, merit in the suit. She said antitrust law had no relevance to the situation and many of the ills the plaintiffs complained of were of their own making, not the debate commission.
“Plaintiffs in this case have not alleged a non-speculative injury traceable to the Commission,” wrote Collyer, who was appointed by President George W. Bush. “Plaintiffs alleged injuries are wholly speculative and are dependent entirely on media coverage decisions. The alleged injuriesfailure to receive media coverage and to garner votes, federal matching funds, and campaign contributionswere caused by the lack of popular support of the candidates and their parties sufficient to attract media attention.”
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Go figure. Only republicans and democrats will be heard. Let’s do it on CSPAN and have three parties.
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538 (‘Whiz Kid’ Harry Enten): [url=http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/gary-johnson-isnt-fading/]Gary Johnson isn’t fading[/url]
Johnson is pulling in about 9 percent in the national polls, according to the FiveThirtyEight polls-only average. And his share in national polls has not fallen as weve gotten closer to the election. Indeed, Johnsons support right now is higher than many other viable third-party candidates at a similar point in campaigns since 1948.
Johnson is pulling in at least twice as much of the vote as Henry Wallace or Strom Thurmond was in late August 1948, as Ralph Nader was in 2000 and certainly as Johnson himself was four years ago. Perhaps even more impressive is that Johnson is polling right about where Ross Perot was in 1996, when Perot had a nationally known name after his strong 1992 run. That said, Johnson is nowhere near the success of that 1992 campaign: Perot was pulling in 20 percent as a hypothetical candidate after leaving the 1992 campaign in July but before re-entering the race in October.
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There is, however, some bad news for Johnson in his steady numbers: Theyre not going up either. Hes showing no signs of reaching 15 percent in national polls, the threshold necessary to get into the debates. Still, if he ends up with 7 percent of the vote as wed expect based upon history and the current polls the Libertarian Party will qualify for federal campaign funding in 2020, and Johnson will claim the highest share of the vote of any non-major party nominee in 20 years.-
[link=http://www.unionleader.com/An-Editorial-Joseph-W-McQuaid-Publisher-A-better-choice-for-President-No-need-to-hold-your-nose-09142016]http://www.unionleader.co…old-your-nose-09142016[/link]
The new Hampshire [i]Union Leader[/i], who have endorsed the Republican candidate for President for 100 years, decides to endorse Gary Johnson and Bill Weld.
Voters leaning toward Trump are understandably fed up with the status quo, of which Clinton is a prime example. But they kid themselves if they think Trump isnt pretty much a part of that status quo as well, or that he is in any way qualified to competently lead this nation.
The man is a liar, a bully, a buffoon. He denigrates any individual or group that displeases him. He has dishonored military veterans and their families, made fun of the physically frail, and changed political views almost as often as he has changed wives.
Americans are being told that we have to choose the lesser of two evils. No, we dont.
Libertarians Gary Johnson and Bill Weld are on the ballot in all 50 states. Their records (as Republican governors in politically-divided states) speak well of them. They would be worth considering under many circumstances. In todays dark times, they are a bright light of hope and reason. The Union Leader and Sunday News endorse them.
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New Hampshire. “Live Free or Die, and the keg’s over there”. Kasich was campaigning there for Chris Sanunu. Kasich/Sanunu 2020.
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3rd Party won’t make a difference. It’s hopeless regardless.
[link=http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/scientists-earth-endangered-by-new-strain-of-fact-resistant-humans]http://www.newyorker.com/…-fact-resistant-humans[/link]Scientists have discovered a powerful new strain of fact-resistant humans who are threatening the ability of Earth to sustain life, a sobering new study reports.
The research, conducted by the University of Minnesota, identifies a virulent strain of humans who are virtually immune to any form of verifiable knowledge, leaving scientists at a loss as to how to combat them.
These humans appear to have all the faculties necessary to receive and process information, Davis Logsdon, one of the scientists who contributed to the study, said. And yet, somehow, they have developed defenses that, for all intents and purposes, have rendered those faculties totally inactive.
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Did anyone catch the CBS show brain dead…it is a black satire on DC derangement..starts with the government shutdown so one of the scientist government funded labs is shut down and a box with bugs has a hole in it and they are from outer space and escape to hibernate in cherry blossoms and infect members of congress that both sides fight and the purpose is to shut down the government do both party extremism..the best part is that some have their heads explode from the infection..really great too bad it was on in the summer with no true publicity
Quote from Frumious
3rd Party won’t make a difference. It’s hopeless regardless.
[link=http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/scientists-earth-endangered-by-new-strain-of-fact-resistant-humans]http://www.newyorker.com/…-fact-resistant-humans[/link]
Scientists have discovered a powerful new strain of fact-resistant humans who are threatening the ability of Earth to sustain life, a sobering new study reports.
The research, conducted by the University of Minnesota, identifies a virulent strain of humans who are virtually immune to any form of verifiable knowledge, leaving scientists at a loss as to how to combat them.
These humans appear to have all the faculties necessary to receive and process information, Davis Logsdon, one of the scientists who contributed to the study, said. And yet, somehow, they have developed defenses that, for all intents and purposes, have rendered those faculties totally inactive.
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At the MSNBC Libertarian town hall this evening:
[b]Matthews:[/b] “Who’s your favorite foreign leader? Just name one foreign leader you respect.”
[b]Johnson:[/b] “Oh, I dunno. Shimon Peres I guess.”
[b]Matthews:[/b] “I mean someone who is still alive.”
[b]Johnson:[/b] “[stutters] Gee, I guess the former President of Mexico [?].”
[b]Matthews:[/b] “Which one?”
[b]Jonhson:[/b] “I dunno. I guess I am having another Aleppo moment.”
[b]Weld:[/b] “[sotto voce] Just say Fox.”
[b]Johnson:[/b] “Fox.”
*****
Wow. [image]http://cdn.flyertalk.com/forum/images/smilies/eek.gif[/image]
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kinda left out that his VP weld said Peres first then his VP yelled out Fox for him and then Weld supplied Merkle
Quote from dergon
At the MSNBC Libertarian town hall this evening:
[b]Matthews:[/b] “Who’s your favorite foreign leader? Just name one foreign leader you respect.”
[b]Johnson:[/b] “Oh, I dunno. Shimon Peres I guess.”
[b]Matthews:[/b] “I mean someone who is still alive.”
[b]Johnson:[/b] “[stutters] Gee, I guess the former President of Mexico [?].”
[b]Matthews:[/b] “Which one?”
[b]Jonhson:[/b] “I dunno. I guess I am having another Aleppo moment.”
[b]Weld:[/b] “[sotto voce] Just say Fox.”
[b]Johnson:[/b] “Fox.”
*****
Wow. [image]http://cdn.flyertalk.com/forum/images/smilies/eek.gif[/image]
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VP Weld questions Trump’s sanity and Gary is out there with press the button
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Governor of New Mexico & he can’t name a Mexican President without being given the answer?
Total idiot. Only 2nd to Trump. -
Saw that
I genuinely felt Chris Matthews felt bad for the go and THrew him a total soft ball
Then when He whiffed Matthews felt even worse and totally tried to downplay it
I heard someone today say
THis years Election is like a story out of the Onion -
The follow-up question to Johnson should be, “Where’s Mexico?”
But then maybe that’s Johnson’s answer. -
This morning on MSNBC they busted on him for 20-30 minutes.
You also need to see him talking with his tongue out to an MSNBC reporter.
Only better segment on MSNBC was after Trump called Mika “off the wall, a neurotic and not very bright mess!”.
They reported on it right in front of her. -
Nice to see Donald Reaching to white Suburban women
What a tool -
As a libertarian he could’ve toked a big bowl before the town hall. I think it’s time for a Turd Party. We’ll lump all of the 2016 candidates into the Turd Party and flush them.
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Gotta flush a lot of voters w them who created both them & conditions for their rise; the anti people who like nothing. Kennedy asked, “Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for you country.”
We now live in a opposite time. “what’s in it for me?”
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Chris threw out every country for him starting with Canada–HRC would slaughter him in a debate( a repeat of the first Dem Primary debate where she dropped Webb and all the others)
saw this on the web
in NY….as one top model said u have to just do the model diet to drop the pounds:-cocaine,coffee and cigarettesQuote from kpack123
Saw that
I genuinely felt Chris Matthews felt bad for the go and THrew him a total soft ball
Then when He whiffed Matthews felt even worse and totally tried to downplay it
I heard someone today say
THis years Election is like a story out of the Onion
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[link=https://thebulwark.com/spoilers-no-more-the-decline-and-decline-of-third-party-candidates/]https://thebulwark.com/sp…hird-party-candidates/[/link]
Spoilers No More: The Decline and Decline of Third-Party Candidates [/h1]There are a number of other factors at play, but all indicate there will be less third party voters in 2020 than in 2016. The death of U.S. Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg will likely push most voters into voting for either Biden or Trump, rather than voting for the Libertarian or Green Party candidate to make an ephemeral statement.
The bigger reason, perhaps, is that the like or dislike is definitely centered more on Trump and less on Biden. There seems to be little appetite for middle-ground undecided voters seeking out a third-party candidate as a protest vote. There is also far less serious organizing, and [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/09/08/trailer-it-not-2016-third-party-candidates/]far less money being spent[/link] by both the Libertarian and Green Party in this environment. The Green Party is not on the ballot this time around in some important states. In the last week or so, courts in both [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/green-party-pennsylvania-ballot-election/2020/09/17/666db0c4-f8f9-11ea-a275-1a2c2d36e1f1_story.html]Pennsylvania[/link] and [link=https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2020/09/14/wisconsin-supreme-court-keeps-green-party-off-ballot-absentee-ballots-mailed-on-time/5796737002/]Wisconsin[/link] knocked the Green Party off the ballot. Nor are they on the ballot in the influential swing states of Nevada and Arizona either.
The recently released [link=https://www.bw.edu/Assets/stories/2020/fall/2020_glp_3%20final-1.pdf]Great Lakes Poll[/link] a survey of voters in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, and Wisconsin asked the voters if they were voting for Libertarian or Green Party candidates in November. Those who said they would go third-party were much smaller compared to 2016. Libertarian Party candidate Gary Johnson took between 2.5% and 3.5% in the 2016 election in those states, while current Libertarian candidate Jo Jorgensen was listed as their voting preference by less than 2% in all four states.
…
Given this history of third-party candidate impact, and with the numbers as close and uncertain as they are, one might have expected the wild card entry of musician/entrepreneur Kanye West to make more of a difference. His candidacy, however, will have no importance on the outcome of the election in spite of his name recognition and the [link=https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/16/us/politics/kanye-west-president-2020.html]chaotic [/link]news cycles he briefly commanded.
West will only make it on the ballot in 12 states: Idaho, Minnesota, Tennessee, Iowa, Arkansas, Colorado, Oklahoma, Vermont, Mississippi, Louisiana, Utah, Kentucky. Of those states, nine of them voted for Trump in 2016 by large margins. The only state really in play on this Kanye West ballot list is Iowa, where Trump is up in the polls by about 2 points right now.
Mr. West and his foray into national politics join the long line of ill-fated third-party candidacies with little to show for their efforts. As the country heads to the polls and mails in ballots over the coming weeks, America will see whether or not the candidates challenging the two-party rule can make more than a marginal difference.
What that means in that many crucial Midwest swing states voters who went third-party in 2016 will be free agents this time around. In the states of Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin which Trump won by only about 77,000 combined votes in 2016 roughly 425,000 voted Libertarian four years ago. The Great Lakes Poll results indicate that only about 191,000 will vote for that party in November. That means around 234,000 voters in those three states will likely be going with Trump or Biden this time around, about three times the number that Trump won by. -
[h1][b]Trump Has Discussed Starting the “Patriot” Party[/b][/h1]
President Trump has talked in recent days with associates about forming a new political party, an effort to exert continued influence after he leaves the White House, the [link=https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/trump-impeachment-biden-inauguration/card/90pPMzFPqr5fMzg1Bkbs]Wall Street Journal[/link] reports.
Mr. Trump discussed the matter with several aides and other people close to him last week The president said he would want to call the new party the Patriot Party.’
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I hope that some of the more engaged folks jump all over that trademark and snap up all the domain names.
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[b]Trump Threatens to Start MAGA Party[/b][/h1]
Former president Donald Trump threw himself back into politics this weekend by publicly endorsing a devoted and divisive acolyte in Arizona who has embraced his false election conspiracy theories and entertained the creation of a new MAGA Party,’ the [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-republican-split/2021/01/23/d7dc253e-5cbc-11eb-8bcf-3877871c819d_story.html]Washington Post[/link] reports.
In a recorded phone call, he offered his complete and total endorsement for another term for Arizona state party chairwoman Kelli Ward, a lightning rod who has sparred with the states Republican governor, been condemned by the business community and overseen a recent flight in party registrations. She narrowly won reelection, by a margin of 51.5 percent to 48.5 percent, marking Trumps first victory in a promised battle to maintain political relevance and influence after losing the 2020 election. -
Trump ‘is drafting an enemies list of Republicans for his Patriot Party to challenge in primaries’
(someone needs to tell him that’s not how ‘primaries’ work when you start your own party)
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Everyone knows a third party makes the leftists victors in perpetuity. The dems divide and conquer tactics are the only means to their control.
I think those supporting Trump-like populist policies make up a larger chunk of Republican voters these days than most people realize and certainly more than those supporting the old McConnell-like imbedded bureaucrats.
I think there will be a major backlash against GOPs supporting impeachment, etc., not for some blind love of the orange bad man, but for love of freedom and country above bureaucracy and BS.
I think most will come around to embrace the populist movement under the Republican banner and obviate the need for political harikari via a third party.
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Wait
You think most republicans will eventually come around and buy into the conspiracies and disinformation of the trump base?
Is that what you are saying?
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American third parties tend to not last.
If Trump (or Trumpist under the banner) do indeed form a third party, then it will be an edge to Democrats for some period of time… until they settle it out and one of the wings burns out.
This is a not uncommon story in American politics. Realignments happen.
The real question on the division in the GOP is how long it takes to play out.
McConnell thinks he can rip off the band-aid now, sever Trump, and have the GOP back on the mend in time for 2022 and 2024.
If the Trumpists don’t let that happen then the schism will remain. (I don’t see the never-Trumpers who *finally* cut the cord coming back into the Trump fold)
Whether that schism plays out within the Republican party with internal primaries and sniping etc or whether it actually breeds a new party remains to be seen
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Again, a third party is not going to happen despite the leftists fantasies.
McConnell is a delusional dinosaur and doesnt represent American interests.
Populism will rule the GOP in the coming years. My preference would be for a more identity-politics friendly figurehead than Trump, but if not so be it.
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Where do the Chamber of Commerce/Lincoln Project/Romney-Sasse-McConnell types (let’s say 30% of the GOP) go in your vision? They just stfu and get on board with right wing populism?
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ps -if I was a Democratic activist I would already be doing signature gathering to get the “MAGA Patriot” party on the ballot in toss-up house districts and purple/slightly-red Senate race states.-
Yes, in my mind and many I know these establishment republicans are no better than democrats.
I think theyre either going to be marginalized and become a quiet minority as their careers wind down, be voted out in primaries or retire as outcasts.
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Well… that’s fine.
But that leaves the GOP as a 40% national party whose only path to winning elections is voter suppression and the gerrymander. It’s not sustainable in the long term.
Those “democrats” in the Chamber of Commerce represent a huge chunk of the electorate. If Democrats peel off even 1/3 of them over multiple cycles, that is an electoral catastrophe for the Republicans.-
Republicans only win when the wrong people are prevented from voting. They have been preaching that since the 1980’s and we have that reality today as Republicans tighten down on disenfranchisement and gerrymandering to exclude more than 1/2 of voters in their states.
Realize that Republicans have not won a national election by popular votes since 1992 except for 1 election in 2004. That’s 28 years now and 1 out of 8 elections with Democrats winning 7 out of 8 elections since 1992.-
Yes thank gosh the founding fathers had the foresight to avoid our countrys fate being left in the hands of California and NY every time
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Quote from irfellowship2020
Yes thank gosh the founding fathers had the foresight to avoid our countrys fate being left in the hands of California and NY every time
Things could be worse. We could have government in the hands in the likes of of Kansas or Mississippi or Alabama.
But on the subject of California’s shooting itself in the foot, causing fainting & pearl clutching in the FOX studios, Progressives are definitely NOT immune to stupid “thinking” & actions.
[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/11/opinion/california-san-francisco-schools.html]https://www.nytimes.com/2…francisco-schools.html[/link]File under “WTF!?” are you thinking???
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Quote from irfellowship2020
Everyone knows a third party makes the leftists victors in perpetuity. The dems divide and conquer tactics are the only means to their control.
No Democrats did this all on your own. This is all Republicans & Trumpets shooting themselves in the feet by believing absolute lies like a stolen election.
You all have no one to blame except yourselves.
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[h1]Trump Sends Message to Senate Republicans: We won’t start a Third Party, He’ll make GOP Primary Challenges[/h1]
[link=https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/25/trump-senate-republicans-impeachment-trial-462420]Politico[/link]: A top political aide to former President Donald Trump spent the weekend quietly reassuring Republican senators that the president has no plans to start a third party and instead will keep his imprint on the GOP.
The message from Brian Jack, Trumps former political director at the White House, is the latest sign that Republicans considering an impeachment conviction will do so knowing that Trump may come after them in upcoming primaries if they vote to convict him for incitement of insurrection.
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[link=https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-party-exclusive-idUSKBN2AB07P]https://www.reuters.com/a…xclusive-idUSKBN2AB07P[/link]
[h1] Dozens of former Republican officials in talks to form anti-Trump third party[/h1]
Dozens of former Republican officials, who view the party as unwilling to stand up to former President Donald Trump and his attempts to undermine U.S. democracy, are in talks to form a center-right breakaway party, four people involved in the discussions told Reuters.
The early stage discussions include former elected Republicans, former officials in the Republican administrations of Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush, George W. Bush and Trump, ex-Republican ambassadors and Republican strategists, the people involved say.
More than 120 of them held a Zoom call last Friday to discuss the breakaway group, which would run on a platform of principled conservatism, including adherence to the Constitution and the rule of law – ideas those involved say have been trashed by Trump.
The plan would be to run candidates in some races but also to endorse center-right candidates in others, be they Republicans, independents or Democrats, the people say.[/QUOTE]
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[h1]Support for Third Party at High Point[/h1]
A new [link=https://news.gallup.com/poll/329639/support-third-political-party-high-point.aspx]Gallup poll[/link] finds 62% of U.S. adults say the parties do such a poor job representing the American people that a third party is needed.The survey found [link=https://news.gallup.com/poll/329561/gop-image-slides-giving-democrats-strong-advantage.aspx]Americans’ favorable opinion of the Republican Party[/link] has declined to 37%, while 48% view the Democratic Party positively. The poll also shows 50% of U.S. adults [link=https://news.gallup.com/poll/15370/Party-Affiliation.aspx]identifying as political independents[/link], the highest percentage Gallup has ever measured in a single poll.
[img]https://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/u8pctpnlyu6ryxkysamptq.png[/img]
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Quote from dergon
[h1]Support for Third Party at High Point[/h1]
A new [link=https://news.gallup.com/poll/329639/support-third-political-party-high-point.aspx]Gallup poll[/link] finds 62% of U.S. adults say the parties do such a poor job representing the American people that a third party is needed.The survey found [link=https://news.gallup.com/poll/329561/gop-image-slides-giving-democrats-strong-advantage.aspx]Americans’ favorable opinion of the Republican Party[/link] has declined to 37%, while 48% view the Democratic Party positively. The poll also shows 50% of U.S. adults [link=https://news.gallup.com/poll/15370/Party-Affiliation.aspx]identifying as political independents[/link], the highest percentage Gallup has ever measured in a single poll.
[image]https://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/u8pctpnlyu6ryxkysamptq.png[/image]
Interesting concept. I consider myself independent. Moderate R’s and moderate D’s appeal to me, particularly if they show a willingness to reach across the aisle. At the end of the day though, they would still be R’s or D’s. Not sure if it’s feasible for a true Independent to raise enough campaign funds to be competitive.-
[i]More than 100 Republicans, including some former elected officials, are preparing to release a letter this week threatening to form a third party if the Republican Party does not make certain changes, according to an organizer of the effort.
The statement is expected to take aim at former President Donald J. Trumps stranglehold on Republicans, which signatories to the document have deemed unconscionable.
When in our democratic republic, forces of conspiracy, division, and despotism arise, it is the patriotic duty of citizens to act collectively in defense of liberty and justice, reads the preamble to the full statement, which is expected to be released on Thursday.[/i]
[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/11/us/politics/republicans-third-party-trump.html]https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/11/u…rty-trump.html[/link]
( I would love to see it. But we’ve been hearing the same rumblings for years now. We’ll see if anything comes of it.The only thing that will force the GOP to change course is consistent electoral loss. If these people can make it happen… more power to them. )
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Trump says reports that he is forming a third party are “Fake News.”
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[h1][b]Anti-Trump Group May Create New Party[/b][/h1]
A group of Republicans unhappy with the course of the GOP is forming the Renew America Movement organization to recruit and support candidates in the most competitive 2022 House and Senate races, [link=https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-24/disaffected-republicans-launch-new-group-to-impact-2022-midterms]Bloomberg[/link] reports.
The group plans to raise tens of millions of dollars to support or oppose candidates, regardless of party, to defeat radical Republicans who support former President Donald Trump in four to five Senate races and about two dozen House races in next years midterm elections. It will also recruit candidates to run in GOP primaries or as independents under the Renew America Movement banner.
Evan McMullin, who unsuccessfully ran for president in 2016 as an independent and is a leader of the effort, said the group wants to push the GOP back to its traditional principles and create a new party if necessary for those conservatives who believe the Republican Party has become too extreme.
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I like the idea. Fracture the party. Split the vote.
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[h1][b]Andrew Yang to Launch Third Party[/b][/h1]
Andrew Yang, who unsuccessfully sought the presidency and the New York City mayoralty as a Democrat, will launch a third party next month, [link=https://www.politico.com/news/2021/09/09/andrew-yang-third-party-511033]Politico[/link] reports.
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Teagan Goddard – [link=https://politicalwire.com/2021/11/10/why-a-third-party-isnt-happening/]Why a Third Party Isnt Happening
[/link][b]A new Pew Research study shows pretty clearly why a Third Party is unlikely to gain traction.[/b]
[b] [/b]
[img]https://1lme911nv0cg3ned26127983-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/PP_2021.11-1.png[/img]The three least partisan groups the Outsider Left, the Ambivalent Right and the Stressed Sideliners make up 37% of the electorate a seemingly solid base for a third party. The problem is they have very little in common politically.
In fact, the only thing this group has in common is little interest in politics: They had the lowest rates of voting in the 2020 presidential election and are less likely than other groups to follow government and public affairs most of the time.
That makes it nearly impossible for a centrist third party candidate to mobilize voters. Heck, they might not even notice.[/QUOTE]
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Plus the fact that the large majority of the Right still supports Trump and what the Republican leadership is doing. Meaning, there are not sufficient numbers of disaffected Republicans who would support and migrate to a 3rd party, they are happy with Trump and the leadership.
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Yeah… that disaffected group where most Republicans who don’t like Trump fall is the “ambivalent right” type.
They are about 12% of the population, but as pointed out by Goddard, the numbers aren’t big enough and they have the lowest level of political engagement of all right-leaners.-
Hahaha. They are using a typology assignment that failed miserably in typing three of us in the treehouse to then predict something?
This is as big a failure as their polling.
I’m hoping to grow the ranks of the energized moderates.
Just look at those numbers in the middle. That’s what will win you elections. Best to listen to what they want.-
A third party is unnecessary. It’s a primary problem.
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Kanye Wests Campaign Was Secretly Run by GOP Elites:
Daily Beast: New documents show Kanye Wests doomed White House campaignstyled as an independent third-party effortappears to have disguised potentially millions of dollars in services it received from a secretive network of Republican Party operatives, including advisers to the GOP elite and a managing partner at one of the top conservative political firms in the country.
Potentially even more alarming? The Kanye 2020 campaign committee did not even report paying some of these advisers, and used an odd abbreviation for anothermoves which campaign finance experts say appear designed to mask the association between known GOP operatives and the campaign, and could constitute a violation of federal laws.
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