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So Radiology is now Woke?
The RSNA Board of Directors just published an editorial apologizing for “structural racism”. Really? Who was racist? Dr. Felson? Dr. Amis? Dr. Margolis? Dr. Dotter? I don’t see any names attached to these accusations. Is it the “system”? How so? It seems to me that minorities are given every opportunity to excel. Is the apparent lack of representation due to discrimination or is it a lousy public education and poor study habits? As to the increased rates of illness and poor outcomes in minority communities: Is it racism or is it poverty? Being poor is almost always bad for ones health. None of these issues are meaningfully addressed.
Are we seriously going to go down the road of woke? Racial discrimination has been illegal since 1964. The ONLY criteria that should pertain to resident selection is excellence. There is no systemic racism in this country. There are bad public education systems, there is serious cultural rot and there is a great deal of unseriousness in our society, but racial discrimination isn’t one of our problems. Going down the intersectional neo-Marxist deconstructionist road of woke will destroy our profession. I’d want an interventionalist hired because of his or her skin color as much as I’d want that in an airline pilot, which is to say not at all. -
346 Replies
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I had a whole reponse, but no useful discussion ever comes when arguing with someone who whines about “woke” and thinks racism is a thing of the past.
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Same. As soon as you read “There is no systemic racism in this country.” you can hit delete and move on.
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Merge it with the other pre-existing “woke” screed in off-topic
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Quote from dergon
Merge it with the other pre-existing “woke” screed in off-topic
Except that this one concerns radiology and as such is ‘on topic’.
Even if you dont like the message or the messager.
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Quote from UncleMinnie
I had a whole reponse, but no useful discussion ever comes when arguing with someone who whines about “woke” and thinks racism is a thing of the past.
this was my exact response
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Quote from UncleMinnie
I had a whole reponse, but no useful discussion ever comes when arguing with someone who whines about “woke” and thinks racism is a thing of the past.
Yes, you are part of the problem. Wake up, wokester. Unreal.
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Quote from DocinPA
Going down the intersectional neo-Marxist deconstructionist road of woke will destroy our profession.
lol
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Quote from DocinPA
Is it the “system”? How so? It seems to me that minorities are given every opportunity to excel. Is the apparent lack of representation due to discrimination or is it a lousy public education and poor study habits? As to the increased rates of illness and poor outcomes in minority communities: Is it racism or is it poverty? Being poor is almost always bad for ones health. None of these issues are meaningfully addressed.
Here’s the article referred to in the editorial:
[link=https://pubs.rsna.org/doi/epdf/10.1148/rg.220112]https://pubs.rsna.org/doi/epdf/10.1148/rg.220112[/link]
(1 hr CME credit for RSNA members)Here’s the editorial:
[link=https://pubs.rsna.org/doi/10.1148/ryai.239001]https://pubs.rsna.org/doi/10.1148/ryai.239001[/link]
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Uh oh, the wokes ate going to eat you alive for this. You must not only accept their religion, but you must participate. Bend the knee and apologize.
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Thanks for sharing the articles.
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“”Being poor “”: All of us capitalist rads agree on one thing that money begets money. There is ONE race in USA that used another race to MAKE more money off their backs for hundreds of years and their progeny has compounded that wealth.
“The only criteria should be excellence”: thats why Trump appointed the most people that ” looked like the part ” they are playing and sycophants who can take a bow to the mob leader or leaders of Saudi Arabia. Hope Hicks ! Jarred Kushner !!-
Quote from RADD2010
“”Being poor “”: All of us capitalist rads agree on one thing that money begets money. There is ONE race in USA that used another race to MAKE more money off their backs for hundreds of years and their progeny has compounded that wealth.
Not to mention influence. I personally know a horribly dangerous oncologist who failed his boards multiple times (still hasn’t passed), but his daddy is friends with the president of the group, so they keep him on and give him easy cases while they overwhelm the competent minority woman in their group with the hard cases (she just quit). And you’d better believe his daddy benefited from multigenerational racism (Hell, he was a student during segregation in the 1960’s).
… and my god is that guy annoyingly confident about things he’s absolutely wrong about. -
Put your money where your mouth is and donate your salary, RADD.
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Can someone define Woke for me
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Quote from Chirorad84
Can someone define Woke for me
here ya’ go
[link=https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/woke-meaning-word-history-b1790787.html] What is the history of the word ‘woke’ and its modern uses?[/h3] [/link]
[link=https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/woke-meaning-word-history-b1790787.html] The phrase originated from African American Vernacular English but has been gradually co-opted by right wing players to be used as an insult[/h3]
[/link]The phrase woke and to stay woke is not new it began appearing in the 1940s and was first used by African Americans to literally mean becoming woken up or sensitised to issues of justice, says linguist and lexicographer Tony Thorne.
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It started becoming a politicised word in 2014, after the death of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri, sparked the Black Lives Matter (BLM) movement.
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It was only in 2017 that the word woke was added to the Oxford English Dictionary, and was defined as being aware or well-informed in a political or cultural sense.
It evolved into an all-encompassing term to describe leftist political ideology, used as a shorthand for people on the left to signal progressiveness, but weaponised by those on the right as a sneering, jeering dismissive term to denigrate those who did not agree with their beliefs.
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Like phrases before it – such as politically correct, social justice warrior and cancel culture – woke has become a toxicised term used by alt-right and politically conservative groups to insult people on the left.
People who are woke simply cant use the word anymore, explained Mr Thorne. Its been appropriated, co-opted and toxicised by the alt-right and right-wing speakers. Those who are woke can still talk about empathy and compassion and social justice, but I think theyve had to abandon the neat, snappy slang words and go back to explaining what they really believe.
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People who actually identify as woke no longer use the word to describe themselves, preferring to use more complex language such as empaths or social justice instead of woke due to its current negative connotations.
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{A}ny word that crops up to replace woke could easily be co-opted once again by those with opposing ideologies.-
Interesting
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In before all the rule-following weak and meek men who just listen to their spouse and government come in and start defending
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Hahaha hahahaha Says the 165lb guy
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Ahhhwhite shaming – the race that took advantage of another race. Some of our ancestors fought to fix it.
Most of my white ancestors were Quakers and lobbied for women and black rights. My ancestors were poor and prosecuted by other whites, including being booted out of England. No, I dont expect England to apologize or pay me anything. My father worked his blue collar ass off to provide for us in rural America. I vividly recall my Georgetown medical school interview in my hand me down suit. We paid our dues and now get shamed? Bullsh1t. I am not apologizing to anyone for my white rural Quaker privilege.
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No, you got shafted. The English taxpayers were still paying off reparations for slavery until 2015.
… and, that was reparations to decendants of slave owners for losing their “property” when England outlawed slavery in 1835.
Btw – no one is shaming you. If discussion about racism, equality and equity makes you feel shamed, that’s your problem. Lots of medical schools give extra points for admission for people with rural or blue-collar backgrounds, so they’re benefiting from “woke” also.
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Quote from Chirorad84
Can someone define Woke for me
anything a certain political orientation doesn’t like.
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I read somewhere that younger people basically under 40 are getting sick of the term WOKE
Seems strange when a party that already has a huge problem with the younger demographic would further double down on something that ticks them off
Like a modern version of the old guy yelling get off my lawn
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Quote from 67ED5CC042435
I am woke.
I would never use the term “woke” to describe myself. … But I can appreciate others who do.
I proudly own both “progressive” and “liberal” labels, although to be honest my policy positions, preference for incrementalism, and pragmatic “you have to win elections before you can govern” approach has many of my more left-leaning acquaintances considering me a moderate.
I’ll also accept “anti-racist” as a label which many might equate with “woke.”
I do like the term “social justice” but don’t like to append “warrior” to it. That seems more intense than my actions would rate.
I prefer “social justice advocate.”
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I used to be a Bill Maher type liberal. Now Im just independent because both republicans and democrats are both too divisise, partisan and stuck in groupthink.
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It amazes me how many physicians fall in line with all these violent left wing extremists yet fail to recognize that they fit the definition of everything they claim is wrong. Do something about it: donate your assets and future income to reparations, give up your kids university seat to a minority, volunteer in the inner city. But you wont. Hypocrites one and all. America isnt perfect, but its not systemically racist, misogynistic, transphobic are any other -phobic. Failure lies mainly with the individual and to a much lesser degree, external factors. Im so sick of this ding dang flippin flim flam!
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Spot on.
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Every woke liberal should read the book Collective Illusions. Basically in this book they reveal the results of how peoples opinions are vastly different if anonymous or in a group setting. Too many people are afraid to speak out against the authoritarian mob or even to hold a different opinion in public. Quite sad.
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Quote from sartoriusBIG
Every woke liberal should read the book Collective Illusions. Basically in this book they reveal the results of how peoples opinions are vastly different if anonymous or in a group setting. Too many people are afraid to speak out against the authoritarian mob or even to hold a different opinion in public. Quite sad.
great book
i thought point re electability and mind reading was interesting
eg someone thinking Im not racist but of course this country is very racist, therefore Barack obama isnt electable therefore I wont vote for him-
Wokeness is othering people, divisive virtue signaling, and blame shifting.
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I think most of us are sympathetic with many of the hardship everyone has to endure, but I think the guilt trip, the how can you not see it, how can you not feel bad, type of attitude is the issue.
There is racism everywhere, it isnt just whites towards blacks. Some blacks are racist. Heck, some Asians are racist etc.. But to apologize or offer reparation for things that a small percentage of people did and historically was accepted is hard to swallow.
Rome should apologize for things that they. Egypt should apologize. African lords who sold their own kinds should apologize. But I dont expect them to as we have to look at these things in historical context of what was acceptable at the time.
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Wokeness is othering people, divisive virtue signaling, and blame shifting.
That is the definition of todays Republican Party
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Quote from peehdee
Heck, some Asians are racist etc..
You think?
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Yep, Arabs are VERY RACIST towards people from Indian subcontinent.
Within Indian subcontinent, Indians are VERY RACIST towards blacks and East Asians.
So, yes, there is systemic racism all over Asia also and needs condemnation. -
You want to see racism? Just google honor killing. People literally kill their daughters because they dated someone from a different race or hung out with the wrong crowd. You think all Indian parents like when their daughter brings home a white guy or guy that is not indian. I have seen tragic ends to relationships because their parents would not accept a white, black or east asian son-in-law. Racism is everywhere whether the left wants to admit it or not. But luckily its rare. The vast majority of people arent racist. And the US has most certainly become less racist over time, to the point that you really only hear of cases on the news, and particularly liberal news because an agenda has to be pushed. Its like plane crashes- if you put them all over the news everyday and asked someone how common they are- everyone would overestimate it by a factor of 10 or more.
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That’s well said (and the subject of Nicholas Taleb’s upcoming book too). Essentially, Taleb states that the less racist and more fair a society is, then the more people complain about how unfair or racist it is. That describes the US and this overall thread now exactly. It’s almost like the left expects people who look like people who committed atrocities hundreds of years ago to have collective guilt over what happened in the past.
White people shouldn’t feel any guilt about past events. If anything, they should be proud that they ended those practices (that are STILL going on today in other parts of the world, by the way. Where’s the outcry for current slaves in Africa?).
And, I also hate grouping people, as the prior poster on this topic stated. Who do you even include in the ‘white’ category these days? There are A LOT of mixed race people anyway in the US, and the amount of mixed race couples keeps growing. How are these individuals going to be categorized by the left?
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So, you’re arguing that since there are a very small number of millionaires in a predominantly white country that inherited their wealth over other minority groups that we should somehow give a $hit, even though the overwhelming majority of millionaires in this country of all races are truly self made (further strengthening the meritocracy argument in this thread).
That’s really your argument?
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Quote from DOCDAWG
So, you’re arguing that since there are a very small number of millionaires in a predominantly white country that inherited their wealth over other minority groups that we should somehow give a $hit, even though the overwhelming majority of millionaires in this country of all races are truly self made (further strengthening the meritocracy argument in this thread).
That’s really your argument?
Whut ?
The data shows that as a group, whites derive a substantial portion of their static wealth from inter-generational transfers. Inheritance, gifting, grandparents paying for college etc. With black americans until recently severely restricted in the economic opportunities open to them, the proportion of black households that receive wealth through inheritance is much smaller and the amounts transferred are lower. For first and second generation immigrants, the role of intergenerational wealth is negligible. -
Quote from drad123
Quote from peehdee
Heck, some Asians are racist etc..
You think?
By all means, take a jab at Asians, they usually wont say anything.
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I still don’t know what the point is.
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[ul][*]All the extremist-related murders in 2022 were committed by right-wing extremists of various kinds, who typically commit most such killings each year but only occasionally are responsible for all (the last time this occurred was 2012). Left-wing extremists engage in violence ranging from assaults to fire-bombings and arsons, but since the late 1980s have not often targeted people with deadly violence. The same cannot be said for domestic Islamist extremists, but deadly incidents linked to Islamist extremism have decreased significantly in the U.S. over the past five years. [*]White supremacists commit the greatest number of domestic extremist-related murders in most years, but in 2022 the percentage was unusually high: 21 of the 25 murders were linked to white supremacists. Again, this is primarily due to mass shootings. Only one of the murders was committed by a right-wing anti-government extremistthe lowest number since 2017. [/ul]
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Quote from RADD2010
[ul][*]All the extremist-related murders in 2022 were committed by right-wing extremists of various kinds, who typically commit most such killings each year but only occasionally are responsible for all (the last time this occurred was 2012). Left-wing extremists engage in violence ranging from assaults to fire-bombings and arsons, but since the late 1980s have not often targeted people with deadly violence. The same cannot be said for domestic Islamist extremists, but deadly incidents linked to Islamist extremism have decreased significantly in the U.S. over the past five years. [*]White supremacists commit the greatest number of domestic extremist-related murders in most years, but in 2022 the percentage was unusually high: 21 of the 25 murders were linked to white supremacists. Again, this is primarily due to mass shootings. Only one of the murders was committed by a right-wing anti-government extremistthe lowest number since 2017. [/ul]
Extremists are extremists for a reason. They dont reflect the thoughts and feelings of the vast majority. Sure the woke left may not have been as violent but thats really just you creating a strawman argument. The far left mob has been just as insidious as the right in 2022 just perhaps violence is not the appropriate measure. Typical liberal ploy is to present arguments as binary and to present tangential problems that really have nothing to do with the root of the problem.
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Strawman argument?
In the USAHow many mass shootings, synagogue massacres or Oklahoma style bombings were caused by left wing extremist
You are correct its not a strawman argument its a non-argument
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Yes. Violence is the worst outcome. But it is not the only measure of corruption and degradation of society. Hence, strawman. Glad I could educate you.
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Oh, let’s not talk about right-wing violence – it tilts the argument against the Right that some want to make. Let’s pretend the left is as violent.
Still waiting for someone to define “woke” that makes it so evil. I mean I’m still floored by DeSantis’s lawyer accidentally being “woke” by actually correctly defining woke as the desire to address actual systemic problems.
Somehow everyone on the Right is missing that apparent honest slip.
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Will be interesting to see specifically how the RSNA will execute their stated changes. Ensuring diversity in RSNA leadership is extremely vague. Will there be at least one Native American in an RSNA leadership position? If not, wont this stated endeavor be a failure? Will there be Laoatians in leadership? Neo-Nazis? What does diversity mean, exactly?
Because an apology without action and sustained commitment has little meaning, our future actions will reflect the authenticity of this statement and our commitment to listening and learning. RSNAs strategic plan includes the crucial goal of promoting diverse representation within the profession and ensuring diversity in RSNA leadership. But more must be done to reconcile the past and create a better future.
With the help of two key RSNA groups, the Committee on Diversity, Equity and Inclusion, and the Health Equity Committee, as well as through the work of all parts of the organization, RSNA commits to the following actions:
[*] Ensure that RSNA bylaws, policies and programs are free from discriminatory practices and unconscious biases.
[*] Prioritize RSNAs diversity, equity, and inclusion values and goals throughout the organization.
[*] Continue our assessment of gaps within RSNA leadership and volunteers, including board governance, speaking opportunities, and committee service.
[*] Identify areas of need and increase RSNAs recognition opportunities, including awards and grant funding.
[*] Establish more equitable pathways to build diversity and address gaps within the radiology profession.
[*] Collaborate with organizations focused on improving the field of medicine for Black physicians and communities of color.
[*] Continue our commitment to reducing health care disparities and inequities within North America and throughout the world.
[/ul]
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Timely poll just out-
[b]Most Americans See Woke as a Positive[/b][/h1]
A new [link=https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2023/03/08/gop-war-woke-most-americans-see-term-positive-ipsos-poll/11417394002/]USA Today/Ipsos poll[/link] finds that by a 56% to 39% margin, Americans say the term woke means awareness of social injustices, not excessive political correctness.
The findings raise questions about whether Republican campaign promises to ban policies at schools and workplaces they denounce as woke could boost a contender in the partys primaries but put them at odds with broader public opinion in the general election.-
OP sounds like a racist POS
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My older partners white boomer types also talk negative about woke generation- personally I think the US is undeniably racist country but many others are too. Look at India all brown but still extremely caste-ist.
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The wokeness creeping into US medicine is destructive hokum.
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The wokeness creeping into US medicine is a destructive distraction. and The feel good apologies are useless and inappropriate by professional medical organizations.
A greater problem is the percentage of illegitimate births of black Americans who grow up without a father in the house.-
For me, there’s no question there’s racism in our society. But I don’t know about the term Woke, some of it’s too much. Better to focus on the particular issues instead of identity labels and politics. Woke is like MAGA in that forces you to pick sides and take part in partisan fights instead of just wanting the right thing done and being sensible.
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Quote from Flounce
For me, there’s no question there’s racism in our society. But I don’t know about the term Woke, some of it’s too much. Better to focus on the particular issues instead of identity labels and politics. Woke is like MAGA in that forces you to pick sides and take part in partisan fights instead of just wanting the right thing done and being sensible.
Obviously, the framing of the OP with the word “woke” in the thread title was intentionally inflammatory/ pejorative.
So, taking “woke” out of it, we can discuss the role of medical societies in addressing structural racism and issues of diversity, equity, and inclusion.
To the OP who asked which radiologist was the racist I would note that an individual existing in and benefitting from systemic racism in an organization, caste system, or society need not be actively racist themselves.
Part of being socially conscious (hopefully that term is not yet co-opted) is to be aware that the societal structures can produce systemic racism. That may indeed be the case with the societal structure of American radiology.
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Wokeness is othering people, divisive virtue signaling, and blame shifting.
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Define illegitimate birth !
Majority of Women in US of A are now single !! ( 52 percent in 2022 ). Family as defined by republicans is defunct and doesn’t work. You cannot force human beings to sleep with the same for 50-60 years , after exchanging rings !!
All births are legitimate. The woke right wing FORCES poor women to not use planned parenthood and makes sure with punitive laws that poor women don’t get their hands on contraceptives/ birth control pills.
Absent fathers in black households: Very true but again poverty and excessive jail time are likely contributors. Blacks seem to have compounded poverty over generations.
Quote from vonbraun
The wokeness creeping into US medicine is a destructive distraction. and The feel good apologies are useless and inappropriate by professional medical organizations.
A greater problem is the percentage of illegitimate births of black Americans who grow up without a father in the house.-
Wokeness is othering people, divisive virtue signaling, and blame shifting.
Donald Trump and todays Republican Party must be the wokest of the woke
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It is the best business to be in. Divide, shift blame and sell lies to the “non woke” :
Annual salary of Sean Hannity : 45 million USD
Tucker Carlson: 35 million annual USD
Alex Jones: Alex Jones is an American far-right political extremist and conspiracy theorist who has a net worth of -$900 million. Over a several year period after Sandy Hook, Jones repeated lies about the shooting, namely that the shooting was staged by the government as a plot to restrict Americans’ access to guns. According to the Connecticut jury, Jones used those lies to drive traffic to his website and increase merchandise sales.
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Wow. This discussion is disheartening.
I knew once that once all of this race division discussion started that there was no good ending.
Oh well, America as an idea/ideal (and individualism) was worth a shot. Tribalism is back in full force, it seems.
The funny thing is that the left wing in this country really think that people who worked hard for their positions are just going to ‘roll over’ and let others have their positions without a fight.
Good luck with that!
Also, I still haven’t heard a great definition of ‘systemic racism.’
Please enlighten us all.
With affirmative action, it seems like the government and academia can actively discrimnate against Asians and whites now (although the upcoming Supreme Court case against Harvard and UNC might axe that. We shall see).
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Only a fool would believe systemic racism doesnt exist. The truth is the USA is great but has extremely racist history.
The colonial period also is also a stain on history.
However, slavery is occurring right now in the Middle East.
History of humanity is ugly.
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Give me an example of systemic racism then, a$$hat.
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The concept of ‘woke ideology’ in our current time is a combination of political correctness, cancel culture, suppression of independent thought, and suppression of free speech, mixed with censorship and compelled compliance enforced by threats of isolation, ridicule, a loss of professional opportunities including loss of professional licensure, intimidation and at times threats of violence. Many of the concepts of ‘woke ideology’ have infiltrated all of medicine, and now are seeping into radiology. One is illustrated above. Another was the forced inclusion of education sessions and use of the Implicit Bias Test to attend the 2021 and 2022 RSNA as a presenter, vendor, or staff. For any attendee no matter nation of origin. Another is the ACR / JACR use of the word ‘latinx’, favored by ‘woke editors’ and only accepted by less than 4% of Latinos, and considered insulting by over 80% of Latino readers.
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One way to analyze the process:
Stages of Wokism (the ‘Wokist Descending Staircase’)
A-entity actively opposed to Wokism
B-entity attempts to be neutral to Wokism
I-sympathetic, adopts the language of the Wokist
II-hires individual Wokist employees, ‘DIE’ coordinator
III-forces participation in Woke activities, banners, and struggle sessions and re-education seminars
IV-actively changes the business or corporation according to Wokist principles and at their direction and control
V-end stage, devaluation of the company and death spiral toward destruction of the company, corporation, or business, or government agency due to lack of support from the majority of their customers, patrons, or supporters or voters. (Disney = Stage V) -
nevermind… I had a response, but then I saw your follow up post. There’s no reasoning with this.
Guy says woke like a million times then whines about losing “independent thought” and “free speech.” [8|]-
I agree with the OP.
If you start looking for unfairness in everything, there will be something that seems unfair! Being male, being born into a family with wealth, being better looking, being better at speaking, being tall, being naturally skinny, having bigger boobs, etc
At what point do we start looking for unfairness?
I dont think RSNA should apologize. Whos next? ACR? AMA??
Remember a who half of the nation sent their children, brothers (maybe sisters?) fathers to fight end slavery. Thousands of whites have given their lives for equality and justice. Where is the thank you for that?
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Hey, if someone calls me a ‘fool’ for not following their beliefs or ideology (and then doesn’t even have the decency to provide an example), then I think the gloves can come off a bit.
But, if you (or anyone for that matter) have an example of systemic racism in 2023 with all of the Civil Rights laws that we have on the books, then I’d love to hear it. We have laws against that these days.
Actually, to think of it, now we have regressive laws that discrimate against those who score the highest on standardized tests, just because of their skin color or ethnicity. THAT is actually systemic racism, by definition. How am I wrong?
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So, you give me an example of differential sentences between drug/coke offenders and an anecdotal example between 2 professors in Baltimore as your smoking gun examples of systemic racism? That’s THE BEST you’ve got?
If true, I would actually agree with the first example and would support equal sentencing for both types of offenders, regardless of race. Plus, I would encourage/support those criminals who were sentenced to longer terms to sue the crap out of the judges who gave out these differing sentences (assuming that is actually true AND that the journalists’ writing the story weren’t fabricating the situation, facts, and events to make their story look more discriminatory, which is a BIG assumption these days).
The second example (N of 2) doesn’t fly. Sorry. Others have done more rigorous statistical analysis and proven that Baltimore example false. I’d heard about that one too but good try.
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Actually, I was just verbally poking you a bit to see if you could take it / an insult (which you did). And, to see if you could give me a legitimate example (which you DIDN’T).
But, don’t take it personally. No hate here, etc.
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Quote from 67ED5CC042435
[link=https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/16/politics/crack-powder-cocaine-sentencing-disparities/index.html]https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/16/politics/crack-powder-cocaine-sentencing-disparities/index.html[/link]
Possession of crack cocaine carries 100x the punishment for carrying the equivalent cocaine.
[link=https://www.tbf.org/news-and-insights/press-releases/2020/july/housing-voucher-discrimination-report-20200701]https://www.tbf.org/news-and-insights/press-releases/2020/july/housing-voucher-discrimination-report-20200701[/link]
The discrimination testing study revealed that housing providers, mostly real estate brokers, showed Black testers about half the number of apartments they showed to white testers. They told white testers that more units were available, showed them more units, offered them more incentives to rent, and made more positive comments about the units.
[link=https://www.baltimoresun.com/education/bs-md-hopkins-professors-lawsuit-discrimination-20220819-z4blemzckrg3ri76qatt536woy-story.html]https://www.baltimoresun.com/education/bs-md-hopkins-professors-lawsuit-discrimination-20220819-z4blemzckrg3ri76qatt536woy-story.html[/link]
Two Black Johns Hopkins University professors took down family photos and replaced them with pictures of white faces in an effort to increase the value of their home after an initial appraisal fell short of expectation, an outcome they believed was due to race and not the propertys condition.
A different appraisal company valued the house at nearly 60% more when the home appeared to be owned by white people. Now, Hopkins professors Nathan Connolly and Shani Mott are suing the appraisal company for damages citing racial discrimination.These are three easy to process examples of systemic racism.
Funny you mention the crack cocaine example. Biden helped craft that particular turd legislation. Biden therefore is part of the problem. We should cancel him.
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Do people really think that America is getting more racist? If you read or watch liberal news, you’d think we had regressed 100 years.
The unfortunate fact is that there is racism and sadly always will be, but we have progressed to the point where the vast majority of people are color blind. I am proud to live in a country where everyone has equal opportunity. Crying systemic racism all the time is just a liberal ploy to silence any opposition to bad policies. -
Asians are discriminated against in college admissions, because liberals hate merit based admission. Period. Full stop. Well guess what, don’t wonder what happened when your parent or loved one has a bad outcome courtesy of an incompetent surgeon/clinician who got a 20 on their MCAT, barely passed their USMLEs and barely passed or didn’t pass their specialty board exam. Why even test people? We should just assume they have the medical knowledge and skillset to do whatever they want. Just let anyone do brain surgery. I’m sure it’ll turn out fine.
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[link=https://www.ama-assn.org/practice-management/digital/ehr-gender-gap-widens-women-physicians-spend-more-time-task?utm_source=BulletinHealthCare&utm_medium=email&utm_term=031823&utm_content=physicians&utm_campaign=article_alert-morning_rounds_weekend&utm_effort=DAMR01]https://www.ama-assn.org/…kend&utm_effort=DAMR01[/link]
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So now even EHR is gender bias??
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Quote from peehdee
[link=https://www.ama-assn.org/practice-management/digital/ehr-gender-gap-widens-women-physicians-spend-more-time-task?utm_source=BulletinHealthCare&utm_medium=email&utm_term=031823&utm_content=physicians&utm_campaign=article_alert-morning_rounds_weekend&utm_effort=DAMR01]https://www.ama-assn.org/…kend&utm_effort=DAMR01[/link]
for those who didn’t click, the title is: [size=”2″]EHR gender gap widens as women physicians spend more time on task[/size]
[size=”3″]To me, how someone reacts to that says a lot. I see it and think, “hmm, ok, probably true that women on average take a little more time writing notes, etc. Honestly my male colleagues probably more often cut a few too many corners, so not sure this needs to be fixed. But, everyone spends too much time in the EHR so anything that reduces that is good”[/size]
[size=”3”]My impression is that *some* (and yes could be a straw man; just my impression) see this and think: “Ok, clearly this is because of sexism. Maybe it’s male programmers who write the EHR with their subconscious bias against women. Maybe the workflow is “male-optimized”. But, any difference between men and women is proof of sexism.”[/size]
[size=”3″]To me that’s one aspect of “woke” that I reject: that every group difference is proof of systemic prejudice.[/size] -
Bill Gates and Steve Jobs started this whole thing. Both males. Structural sexism. Only half joking.
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This thread is not going to end well
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Woke training leads to dehumanizing others leading to violence against those dehumanized. Same story as 1930s Germany.
Example:
Good friend works on road crew for the state and must attend HR diversity training. 90% of those attending the training were in government white collar jobs. During the training you are given beads for a bracelet for triggers. The one with the most beads is then shamed, being told that they can learn what it feels like to be bullied. My friend won – beads in every category: white, male, straight, married only once, kids, prior military, law enforcement (military police), hunter, gun owner, drinks beer (woke folks drink fancy drinks), facial hair, non smoker, no drugs and Christian. Just let that sink in. State sponsored.-
Some would say that the rich use other cards to distract from the real issue money privilege.
Divide and conquer. Nah, that sounds like a Qanon conspiracy theory. Gotta get back to msnbc and Rachel who makes only $20M per year.
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Colorado, a supposedly purple state. HR was the state government person, no firm.
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Quote from xraygiggles
Some would say that the rich use other cards to distract from the real issue money privilege.
Divide and conquer. Nah, that sounds like a Qanon conspiracy theory. Gotta get back to msnbc and Rachel who makes only $20M per year.
At least a small number of people [i][b]actually get it[/b][/i]. Kudos, xray
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Quote from Chirorad84
This thread is not going to end well
It didn’t start well.
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Everything need not be taken to the extreme.
Take meritocracy for example.
Does admissions into a top medical school HAVE to be either race blind / economic-blind OR be necessarily graduating poorly trained physicians who can’t spot a small bleed or infarct? Certainly not.
Instead of saying that we at XYZ Top University School of Medicine are only looking at merit because it some sort of religion, we can say that we have merit standards that if you surpass 95th percentile in grades, standardized testing, etc, you are considered to be an outstanding applicant that is good enough for us, good enough for anyone. Because really, one person had a few points higher on that MCAT, is that the only thing worth considering?
From that pool of selected top applicants, using other factors like life experiences (the mother who went back to school, the ex military veteran, etc) , you could pick the type of med school class you want. Some researchers and academics, so more into clinical medicine, etc. One factor could be the fact that the state of which this university is in and receiving taxpayer funding has 30% African Americans living there and the state might want to get 12% of the class to be African American – again, only picking from the top 95 percentile of applicants that have passed muster. Maybe you don’t get there and have 8% of the class African American, that is better than the only 2% that was the historical trend when only merit was used. “Why only 2% if they make up 30% of the population, are they dumb or lazy? Well that’s their fault.” Perhaps African Americans statistically are more likely to come from poorer school districts with larger class sizes, without AP programs and debate teams and orchestras etc, and because [fill in the blank with whatever reasoning you want, say you like to imply they are genetically or culturally inferior, whatever]. It doesn’t matter. Point is that when 30% of the population is, say, African American such in Georgia – it’s not healthy if only 2% of doctors and lawyers are black. The rich do get richer and are able to confer advantages to their families to live in better school districts and get after school tutors and find research opportunities and get a leg up, we all do that for our children as physicians. People of all races – society at large – benefits from not having an apartheid-like situation where so many of X race remains poor (“they need to try harder and not have absentee fathers and save money to pull themselves up by the bootstraps” yada yada). Even if the cost is that some Asian or white or indian or jewish kids end up going to their 2nd or 3rd choice med school because a black with a bit lower MCAT and GPA – say 3.90 instead of a 3.94 – were preferred over them. Oh well, I can live with that, I do not think merit is the only important thing in life. Sometimes I tell my daughter to give her younger sisters a break when playing board games, let them win once in a while, it’s more fun for everyone, the goal of spending an hour playing board games (yes we still play board games in my house, no video games) on a rainy day is not a rigorous process of finding and rewarding The BEST Scrabble PLAYER (who is always the same daughter of mine), but we also appreciate having fun and letting her younger siblings score some points here and there so everyone is smiling at the end. Yeah we could tell the little ones to suck it up and if they don’t win then they should have tried harder or prepared better or been born a few years earlier but that is silly. Because if they lose all the time, for whatever reason, they may refuse to play a game they rarely win. And if they refuse to play the game, my other daughter can’t enjoy playing either, because she can’t really enjoy playing (and winning) if her siblings don’t take part.
I have the same feelings about guns and other things. We can give and take a little bit and say, “you know what, I don’t entirely agree but that’s okay, I can be generous on account of my having more and because I care about you and need to live with you and want you to be happy, too.”
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Im white. And I agree with critical race theory and all that goes with it. I would go so far as to say that all white people should have at least 50% of their assets seized and immediately redistributed to all POCs and LGBTQIAA2S until each marginalized person has at least $5 million, as determined by the San Francisco study. Any resistance or protest should be met with immediate full seizure of assets and imprisonment of the entire family. Those under legal age should be placed in the states care to ensure proper education and mindset. Anything less than this perpetuates a heteronormative, nonneurodivergent, Christian patriarchy that is above all systemically racist. Anyone who argues against this is guilty of genocide.
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Woah whats with the name calling? Are we in elementary school
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Disney, stage V ?
Disney is govt. controlled now ( board appointees are by De Saint), one step away from a complete communistic style take over in the banana land.
Quote from MSK/SW
One way to analyze the process:
Stages of Wokism (the ‘Wokist Descending Staircase’)
A-entity actively opposed to Wokism
B-entity attempts to be neutral to Wokism
I-sympathetic, adopts the language of the Wokist
II-hires individual Wokist employees, ‘DIE’ coordinator
III-forces participation in Woke activities, banners, and struggle sessions and re-education seminars
IV-actively changes the business or corporation according to Wokist principles and at their direction and control
V-end stage, devaluation of the company and death spiral toward destruction of the company, corporation, or business, or government agency due to lack of support from the majority of their customers, patrons, or supporters or voters. (Disney = Stage V)-
examples of systemic racism –
black men get arrested and jailed for same crimes at a much higher rate than others (often for minor drug offenses for which others get a slap on the wrist)… their kids grow up with a single parent and have much less opportunities… they don’t have money or time for the tutors, courses and books that will get you the better standardized test scores… they don’t have the connections that get you into a good college, interviews and a job.
Black neighborhoods got redlined to the 1990’s, even today, black people (with the same financials) are more likely to have their home loan appliciations rejected… they end up living in a worse neighbhorhood and since schools are funded by local districts, their schools are crappy with fewer opportunities… same result as above.
People don’t have to shout out the N-word for racism to exist.
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Quote from DOCDAWG
Plus, I would encourage/support those criminals who were sentenced to longer terms to sue the crap out of the judges who gave out these differing sentences
Look up “judicial immunity”… it’s not easy to sue a judge for discrimination and even if you do, they got other judges protecting them. And no one is going to jail for judges sending a black guy with crack to prison for decades and a white guy with the same amount of cocaine to jail for a week, because it was literally law until very recently. That’s systemic racism.-
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Racism exist, period.
I dont think anyone would argue about that.
It probably exist in sports, but no one talks about it. Why arent we studying? and Im sure intelligence, work ethic, musical ability, dance skills, athleticism all have some racial predilection. Why arent we talking about that?
But I think most of us are tired of talking about having to feel guilty about the black race or minority group X. Stop trying to find a nail to hammer. Life is not fair from many perspective, race, gender, height, talent, built etc.. but we move on.
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Almost all of those examples are journalistic and not scientific, meaning that you are pulling from highly biased journals that would do anything to promote their own agenda.
Care to site sources from any unbiased or scientific sources?
I doubt you can find any…
Plus, most of those examples are marginal at best.
Do the black students who graduate from Harvard not get equivalent jobs because they have been over-placed at Harvard due to affirmative action and are just not as capable as their classmates, so they chose easier majors (Non STEM) in order to pass? Or have the students in ‘state’ schools been underplaced (ie. discriminated against) in schools due to AA and thus excelled there; giving them a better chance to land that good job.
Are some groups just better academically than others (Asians, etc)? Why should we be surprised if they succeed, if so.
Also, regarding refinancing, I’m pretty sure that whole article is BS because ANY BANK will lend to you $$$, if you have enough assets and a high enough credit score. Trust me. It seems to me the sample in that article just didn’t have a high enough credit score to warrant refinancing of said loans. Plus, there are banking laws on the books that preferentially give loans to minorities over others, even if they have a poor credit score. I know this for sure.
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Uncle, maybe the white guys who could buy cocaine just had more cash than the crackheads, and, hence could hire better lawyers who kept them from going to jail for as long?
That would then be more of an economic discrepancy than racial (which I’d buy a whole lot better than this BS systemic racial stuff you bleeding hearts are continually dribbling over).
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Well, the examples you gave me look more like OP-EDS than true science or data. If Roland Fryer, who I think is actually racist against whites, publishes something on the topic (as he has in the past), then I would tend to agree with it.
Not because he likes whites, but because he has such integrity to the data and economic method. I’d believe Coleman Hughes too. Most of these other people are just activists or ideological ‘preachers,’ in my experience/opinion.
Plus, look, if you are a minority and someone is truly discriminating against you based on your color or ethnicity, then sue them back to the stone age. Thousands of people fought for civil rights in the 1960s to prevent that from happening again.
However, those same rights should also apply to whites, Jews, and Asians. And, in recent times, we have actually laws and practices in place that actively discriminate against those groups. How in the world is that even fair? I think the Supreme Court is about to put a stop to some of this nonsense. I hope, at least.
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Quote from DOCDAWG
Uncle, maybe the white guys who could buy cocaine just had more cash than the crackheads, and, hence could hire better lawyers who kept them from going to jail for as long?
That would then be more of an economic discrepancy than racial (which I’d buy a whole lot better than this BS systemic racial stuff you bleeding hearts are continually dribbling over).
No. It was literally law that the same amount of crack got you a ridiculous amount of jail time compared to cocaine. Crack was predominately used by black people, cocaine by white people. There is no other explanation for why there would be such a disparity in sentencing laws.
I’m kind of done with you. I mean you literally just said “any bank will give you a loan” if you have assets and credit score. There have been studies and investigations that corrected for all that and [link=https://apnews.com/article/lifestyle-technology-business-race-and-ethnicity-racial-injustice-b920d945a6a13db1e1aee44d91475205]all it came down to was race[/link] . I mean, if you’re going to ignore facts, there isn’t much we could discuss.
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Uncle, you’re just wrong on that.
Maybe back in the 1930s that could be found with banks, but in the modern US? That’s just BS. My family is heavily involved in banking, and the Feds would crucify any bank that discriminated based on race. So, you may go now…
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NYK, that’s completely absurd. Affirmative action, by LAW, actively excludes Jews, whites, and Asians from the top colleges, in favor of other minorities, simply based on their group identity.
How is that controversial? It’s actually A LAW.
Sadly…but it is nonetheless.
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Not to nitpick, but affirmative action also adversely affects South Asians (of which there are a lot in medicine/radiology) in addition to East Asians.
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Your family’s anectodal experience means nothing. I showed you real data that it’s real and there have been many other investigations with the same results. If you’re ignoring actual facts, then there’s nothing more to say.
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There are similar policies favoring those from rural backgrounds, but I never see you guys complaining about that.
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It’s not anecdotal. It’s the law that you can’t discriminate in lending. So, does your one crappy example really assume that all things were equal across the board including: employment history, income, credit reports, assets vs. liabilities, etc?
I HIGHLY doubt it. That’s why I dismissed your example immediately because it didn’t describe or account for all of the variables involved in issuing a loan.
Trust me on this, the overwhelming majority of banks only see one color: GREEN. And if you can fog a mirror and have a good income and good credit, then you will get a loan. No problem.
If you don’t get the loan, then was your income, credit, and employment really that reliable? In cases of denial, the answer is usually no, regardless of race. Again, you can and should file suit if a bank denies you a loan truly based on ethnicity.
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Good point joeblow. Well said. We hear you & agree, etc.
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Look NYK, you’re right.
We just aren’t ever going to agree on this.
I would simply ask you this: if there is SO MUCH systemic racism in medicine or society, then why is the world’s leading academic institution (for the moment at least) being sued by Asian students (a minority) for discrimination because they are just too damn smart (and hence must be excluded from entry to make way for other minorities who have lesser academic credentials).
I mean, if anything, Asians should be protesting in the streets over this atrocity. And, yet, I don’t hear much at all.
So, if you want to make the argument that the US discriminates against Asians, then I’ll buy that. But, that’s not what you’ve said.
And, I’m just not buying the argument that there’s that much discrimination against other groups anymore. Sorry.
Laws prohibit that. If you have an issue, then go to court.
Simple as that.
I do appreciate your good faith attempts to argue, though, and you at least provided some examples; one of which I actually gave credence to. So, thanks for being cordial and respectful.
We can simply agree to disagree.
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I believe systemic racism exists. However I am also against the corrective policies implemented like AA, which are also a form of discrimination imo. AA will be struck down by scotus and Im fine with that.
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Nyk,
Sowhy did the state HR rep do it?Yes, it is malicious and an attempt to shame/dehumanize. Yes, it can and does lead to hate, and hate leads to violence. It is however blunted by the facts that the majority of our population is white and that my friend laughed it off due to the pansy ass approach to make him feel shamed.
AA benefited a rural poor white guy? Odd, its never benefited me nor any of the people I grew up with. What program did you benefit from? How?
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Someone here mentioned Affirmative action likely getting the boot from SCOTUS?
If so, I would agree with that 100 %.
Never made sense to me why my friends of hispanic or african (I’m talking doctors kids from rich families, parents from Kenya, Argentina, etc) Got into much much better schools than I did with far lesser credentials. One of my best friends got into A state medical school with a 23 MCAT and a 2.7 gpa. I kid you not.
I DO Think there should be affirmative action made for people from lower socioeconomic backgrounds – and in large cities this is a disproportionately hispanic and african american population. That being said – Poor white people, asian people, whatever, should also have these opportunities. Shouldn’t just rely on race entirely is my point.
For what it’s worth, i’m not white either.
As far as racism in radiology…..I can say half my residency program was asian / south asian and middle eastern. I can also say I don’t know many african american or hispanic radiologists. That’s certainly a fact. Not sure why, just an observation.
Our private group has asians, indians, pakistanis, eastern europeans, and white people. Not everyone sees eye to eye on politics, but can say I never got a racist vibe from anyone. Heck, one of our main IR’s is a minority female also.
During fellowship, the department was actively trying to recruit both female and minority candidates to improve diversity. I didn’t see harm in that whatsoever – but to be honest, both non asian minorities and females were few in our applicant pool. Indian dudes on the other hand….lol.
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DOCDAWG said: I would simply ask you this: if there is SO MUCH systemic racism in medicine or society, then why is the world’s leading academic institution (for the moment at least) being sued by Asian students (a minority) for discrimination because they are just too damn smart (and hence must be excluded from entry to make way for other minorities who have lesser academic credentials).
Herein lies they newly stressed importance of equity rather than equality.
Equal opportunity is no longer good enough. If there arent equal outcomes, it is systemically racist.
Thats how they get away with openly discriminating against certain races (Asians) in academia. .
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I’ve already lived in a Soviet dictatorship with similar goals and endpoints and I ain’t doing it again. glhf (good luck have fun)
Luckily as free and sovereign individuals we have the power to go where we are treated best.
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Nothing like constant hyperbole comparing equality to Soviet dictatorship.
Never, ever got a clear answer how things like Social Security, Medicare, consumer fraud protection & leveling the playing field so opportunity is somewhat similar for all regardless of race & poverty is the same thing as Soviet dictatorship. Socialist Europe was never the equivalent of Soviet dictatorship which is why they literally built a wall to keep their people from running to Socialist Europe.
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Quote from 67ED5CC042435
However, I disagree with this premise. It is not a zero sum game. There will always be people above average, average, and below average. But that position should not be based on ones skin color or where ones ancestors came from.
I certainly agree that one’s economic opportunities shouldn’t be based on skin color/etc. There is racism, obviously, etc etc. But that’s different from some of the stronger statements about race that are meant to drive policy.
One of the tenets of anti-racism (or at least some “anti-racists”) is that all differences in wealth/status/outcomes are due to racism, period. I don’t pretend to understand all the reasons for differences, and undoubtedly some of the differences in the US *are* due to racism, however this simplistic explanation cannot explain the success of e.g. brown skinned Indian Americans. Also, if you agree with the statement that *all* differences between races (or genders, or rural vs urban, or whatever other division you care to make) *must* be due to discrimination, then logically the success of e.g. some Asian American groups *must* be due to them getting preferential treatment. Which is implausible.
Also, another statement of anti-racism is that “the only solution to past discrimination is future discrimination.” And that we must favor one race over another until there is equality (however defined– is it just average income?). Well, that’s absolutely a zero sum game.
And you’re already seeing it in college admissions, with many Asian Americans fighting against it b/c they are the ones being penalized. There’s your zero sum game in action.
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No one is saying that about blacks NYK.
But, one must ask this question: How is it that immigrants from other regions of the globe can come to this country and thrive (and even significantly out-earn and out-produce many native born Americans), if, as you say there are clearly systemic factors in their way.
If there are clear systemic factors in their way, then, by their outcomes at least, you would have to question how significant those systemic factors were/are.
Or, maybe, these immigrants are JUST THAT GOOD that they can overcome those obstacles and still achieve success.
To me, it seems more likely that while some obstacles to achievement for some groups ‘may’ exist, these obstacles are insignificant compared to both the inherent talent and drive of those individuals who come to the US and ‘win.’
Perhaps as importantly, could the culture of these groups (and their families) just be superior to our own culture(s)? If so, instead of letting AA discriminate against these groups of people who achieve greatly, we should all EMULATE THEM. Truly, if you can’t beat them, then either join them, get out of their way, or try to out-work them. Good luck…lol -
Funny you should ask that dawg, Times has article on just that, intractable poverty.
[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/09/magazine/poverty-by-america-matthew-desmond.html?unlocked_article_code=X-NNLjbwUfUt3xdKFxc0l4DE8kFEyWjOJW7jurNm3TxwLvBDO4zwBSrMHBu4sp1LKmwXSKN2qG3HjUlcbUvEnqWwjN_EADtMcbBoEs0SQ9dqxr2W8KEtWYe4GtA7zjxsqy9aoBc8N3qODp5PV59bYGKF1tQ4bFJafYavkA6p3PAFQ6SfE9f4vPe5OwlthZ4K0efh6Coy280cl0_Tmq-zgHhIywthSSiivViTKm3d9_Wq60AM-iLJAXOk5jsqD45iBRZKRbCsaCt6vs4PxxntsKCwaO2qx3uvnrKAYyDujlsNE1cmUptS6iJotSTlJYhuzwd_koxz_a6uo8-4DjtcpAzJGO1AEUsds8XUyg&smid=url-share]https://www.nytimes.com/2…ds8XUyg&smid=url-share[/link]
As Michael Harrington put it 60 years ago: It is much easier in the United States to be decently dressed than it is to be decently housed, fed or doctored.
There are, it would seem, deeper structural forces at play, ones that have to do with the way the American poor are routinely taken advantage of. The primary reason for our stalled progress on poverty reduction has to do with the fact that we have not confronted the unrelenting exploitation of the poor in the labor, housing and financial markets.
As a theory of poverty, exploitation elicits a muddled response, causing us to think of course and but, no in the same instant. The word carries a moral charge, but social scientists have a fairly coolheaded way to measure exploitation: When we are underpaid relative to the value of what we produce, we experience labor exploitation; when we are overcharged relative to the value of something we purchase, we experience consumer exploitation. For example, if a family paid $1,000 a month to rent an apartment with a market value of $20,000, that family would experience a higher level of renter exploitation than a family who paid the same amount for an apartment with a market valuation of $100,000. When we dont own property or cant access credit, we become dependent on people who do and can, which in turn invites exploitation, because a bad deal for you is a good deal for me.
Our vulnerability to exploitation grows as our liberty shrinks. Because undocumented workers are not protected by labor laws, more than a third are paid below minimum wage, and nearly 85 percent are not paid overtime. Many of us who are U.S. citizens, or who crossed borders through official checkpoints, would not work for these wages. We dont have to. If they migrate here as adults, those undocumented workers choose the terms of their arrangement. But just because desperate people accept and even seek out exploitative conditions doesnt make those conditions any less exploitative. Sometimes exploitation is simply the best bad option.
Consider how many employers now get one over on American workers. The United States offers some of the lowest wages in the industrialized world. A larger share of workers in the United States make low pay earning less than two-thirds of median wages than in any other country belonging to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. According to the group, nearly 23 percent of American workers labor in low-paying jobs, compared with roughly 17 percent in Britain, 11 percent in Japan and 5 percent in Italy. Poverty wages have swollen the ranks of the American working poor, most of whom are 35 or older.
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It is not just minorities who remain intractably poor, its mostly Whites. Johnson started his war on Poverty in the 1960s with poor Whites in Appalachia in mind. They remain poor today as J.D.Vances Hillbilly Elegy shows us.
The poor made lucrative victims to exploit. Even government exploits them as the poor accumulate government fines that pay for this oppressive government instead of running government on taxes.
Read Nickel & Dimed. -
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So many Asian American groups are more successful than white Americans despite the fact that they are discriminated against b/c they are consciously making an effort to succeed?
If you believe that, then apparently you are saying that some ethnic groups in the US are more focused on success than others. And, it works. If so, why is that not the answer to the whole situation? -
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I used to buy into all the mythology around America when I was a kid and young man. The “American dream” etc blah blah. Real life has taught me a lot of lessons and also how naive I was back then. I think today I have a realistic view of American society and what it is all about. America is only about 250 years old and a lot of the so-called “culture” revolves around consumerism and other dumb pursuits that enrich the business class and owners of capital.
However – I also examine other countries and cultures through the same lens…. Lots of country are extremely screwed up while in the US we are probably only mildly screwed up. -
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Multiculturalism and diversity are the religion of the left, and they are bankrupt concepts. That’s why they need force and cancelling in order to (try to) keep them going. The only thing holding America together at this point, of course, is the money.
No one cares about exceptions, by the way, that’s a common lefty talking point to distract from world realities. For a society, exceptions mean nothing. There’s no such thing as kumbaya, and there’s no such thing as equality in this world. Equity is the most evil concept going, and it is pushed by all the (almost) dead or demonic politicians a lot on this board know and love.
The Frankfurt school is laughing at you all while they continue to rake in the dough, and you fight one another. -
Darwin rules. Cooperation is a lefty idea.
Got it -
Calling something ‘woke’ has lost its power now that the collectivists have moved away from the term. It’s like a kid using some antiquated term to call another kid stupid.
That said, the type of self-flaggelating statements from organizations like RSNA are stupid and ineffective. It certainly worth investigating what racist and exclusionary policies the organization may have engaged in at one point, but apologizing for something if you dont know what it is is stupid. -
Reality. Government as in democracy is a collective institution. If its not a collective it does not represent its citizens.
So far the libertarian sovereign citizens havent shown the better way while claiming the football is theirs alone.
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What could it all mean? Hmmmmm…. Interesting correlation.
[image]https://i.ibb.co/nbGh7sL/51-AB27-E1-792-D-441-C-9-D14-D8-C197188-FAC.jpg[/image]
[image]https://i.ibb.co/sJ11g0p/D08-C18-B7-D3-B0-4687-82-F9-2497-B2-D715-AF.jpg[/image] -
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Quote from 67ED5CC042435
Quote from acpce1
What could it all mean? Hmmmmm…. Interesting correlation.
[image]https://i.ibb.co/nbGh7sL/51-AB27-E1-792-D-441-C-9-D14-D8-C197188-FAC.jpg[/image]
[image]https://i.ibb.co/sJ11g0p/D08-C18-B7-D3-B0-4687-82-F9-2497-B2-D715-AF.jpg[/image]
It looks the catalyst was Trayvon Martin being killed.
It is the mainstream media dividing the country for ad clicks. Fear and division sells! Think how much money CNN made in ads during the BLM riots! Fan those metaphorical (and real!) flames! And leftists politicians love to divide the country similarly because affluent liberal virtue signalers eat that sh!t up. -
The woke crew is out in full force posting articles from liberal journalists because they cant think for themselves and just parrot liberal talking points. Not suprised. Some people just like the comfort of identity politics because it makes them feel all warm and fuzzy.
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So many words here, and so much conflation and deliberate misinterpretation of others responses and motives, and not in equal measure from right left and center is what I would say if I were going to jump in, which Im not.
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Jeez, the arguments are all over the place pulling in every bit of nonsense there is including about Whites being the real victims of racism, etc. despite evidence to the contrary. And suddenly the Right is worried about Asians being the smartest people in the world and being denied admission to Harvard for mediocre Whites and others being placed ahead of the more deserving Asians.
It’s all so parochial.
What’s any of this to do with “woke” besides “woke” being some trigger dog-whistle for those in the club,, the secret handshake. -
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Look, I don’t pretend to know why Asian american students outperform, but it’s real, and it’s not any of the things mentioned here. Low and middle income Asian American kids, born and raised in the US and attending urban public schools where they are a minority, routinely outperform academically, leading to widespread and well-documented overrepresentation at highly selective public schools, etc, and the current lawsuits (one POV on the issue summarized below).
It’s real, and it shouldn’t be ignored because it doesn’t fit with the simplistic theory that all group differences in America, or the world, are due to discrimination or favoritism.
[link=https://pacificlegal.org/officials-spread-myth-asian-students-are-test-taking-robots/]https://pacificlegal.org/officials-spread-myth-asian-students-are-test-taking-robots/[/link] -
Also, FWIW, here are US government figures for income by race. Asian American men and women markedly outperform other ethnic groups (including white), and it’s not close. There’s nothing *mythical* about it. It’s just reality.
Again, I don’t know why, but denying reality is rarely helpful in the long run.
[link=https://www.dol.gov/agencies/wb/data/earnings/median-annual-sex-race-hispanic-ethnicity]https://www.dol.gov/agencies/wb/data/earnings/median-annual-sex-race-hispanic-ethnicity[/link] -
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Quote from 67ED5CC042435
A nationwide 2013 report shows that the median Asian wealth was $91,440, higher than the wealth of Blacks and Latinos, but still less than White Americans median wealth of $134,008.[21] Additionally, Asian Americans at the bottom of the income distribution have less wealth than Whites similarly located.
That’s the effect of inherited wealth which plays a negligible role for first gen immigrants. And this isn’t Sackler level money, just splitting a paid off suburban home and a few $$ in an IRA with your 1.3 siblings and you are ahead without having done anything for it.
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Quote from 67ED5CC042435
According to various sources¹²³45, some of the demographics and characteristics of Indian immigrants are:
– They are the second-largest immigrant group in the United States, with about 4 million residents as of 2020².
– They are highly educated, with 77 percent of Indian adults having a bachelors degree or higher, compared to 31 percent of native-born adults4.
Ok, just a thought experiment on this to illustrate why I’m uncomfortable dividing people into groups and then forcing equality in whatever outcome you choose between those groups. Aside from the fact that there is no end to this (race? how many races? White isn’t homogeneous, nor is Asian, nor obviously is black. Sex? Sexual orientation? Family wealth? Parental education? Foster kid? Tall? Bald? Obese?).
For the sake of this argument, and relevant to the debate/lawsuits about affirmative action in college admission, assume Asian Americans, on average, outperform the average and black Americans underperform (in, say, ACT/MCAT). Hence where we are with the current lawsuits where Asians have to meet higher academic standards on average to be accepted and blacks can meet lower standards.
The issue is that Asian Americans are “overrepresented” at competitive schools– they are (say) 10% of population but make up 20% of admissions. And black Americans are underrepresented at same. That’s the core issue- if Asian Americans were 10% of population and 10% of admissions without any manipulation of the standards, and similarly for all other races, we wouldn’t have an issue, right? We’d say each race is fairly represented, the student body reflects the population, etc. Fine.Ok, here’s a solution: Allow a bunch of academically unpromising/uneducated Asian families to immigrate to the US. Using family education level and testing you can do a pretty good job identifying people who, *on average*, aren’t going to excel academically. Similarly, allow a large number of highly educated/academically successful families from Africa to immigrate to the US. If enough of both groups come, no more “imbalance” in college admissions. You get “fair” % of both races with high ACT/MCAT etc scores, and so on.
Now, what has this fixed? It hasn’t helped *current* black Americans at all, b/c they aren’t getting into Harvard, the new arrivals from Africa are. But the group we’ve placed them in is indeed doing better, so we “fixed” the race problem. Things like this can happen when you view people as a group and not as individuals.
Basically, I’m all for including *on an individual basis* factors that made achievement more difficult for someone, *including race* (although I think generally growing up in extreme poverty is more impactful than race; look at children of doctors of any race vs people growing up in trailer parks or housing projects, also any race. But yes I do think race still has an impact in the US). But going from that to forcing equal outcomes between all groups, that seems problematic.
But admittedly there’s personal philosophy in there too. I’ve never been a fan of collectivism.
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Which Asians are being talked about regarding discrimination? Chinese only? Japanese? Indians? Pakistanis? Vietnamese & other SE Asians? Jews? Turks? Others? There are more than 1 Asian country and nationality & customs.
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Which whites are we talking about? English, French, German, Italian, Greek, Bosnian, Romanian, Norwegian
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The inherited wealth argument above is complete BS by the way.
This has been debunked numerous times. But, this is AM after all.
Great post btw acpce1. Hadn’t seen that data displayed that transparently before. Well done.
Flounce makes a decent argument about medical school admissions if certain metrics are met. That makes sense, BUT what if a lot of minorities DON’T hit those said metrics.
Then what are schools going to do? My guess is what they do now – lie about it or claim that they take a more ‘holistic’ approach to their admissions process, which we all know really means that we handicap some groups based on race and ethnicity.
And that is why Harvard is getting sued…
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We found out that 74% of millennials believe millionaires inherited their money and more than half (52%) of baby boomers think the same thing.1
But our study of millionaires blows that theory out of the water. Here are the facts:
Only 21% of millionaires received any inheritance at all.
Just 16% inherited more than $100,000.
And get this: Only 3% received an inheritance at or above $1 million!2
Think about that: Most folks believe millionaires simply inherited their wealth, but the vast majority of millionaires didnt get any inheritance at alland those who did certainly didnt get enough to make them millionaires! -
It looks like, based on the acpce1 post, that if you have a failing mainstream media company then the best way to put off your future insolvency is to stir up hatred amongst the races in a multicultural country, especially in a time where people seemed to be getting along better than in the past. Thanks media outlets!
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Modern America is legally racist against whites and asians, period. It is legally sexist against men. Period.
Those are the laws. The people that are discriminated against, by law, still outachieve the other groups. Period.
You can’t solve anything without telling the truth, which is the reason the left of course never solves anything. To think they are trying means you are as dumb as they think you are. -
Somehow thats important? What difference does it make whether millionaires inherited millions or saved/earned it? Who cares.
Thats a mere distraction from the real issues. Squirrel!
The problem is the smaller middle class. The problem is smaller earnings & income of the middle class. The problem is the large number of people who live paycheck to paycheck, even as they work multiple jobs. The problem is the inability for many people to have savings sufficient for an emergency much less just a savings account. The problem is a very few at the top owning most of Americas resources. The problem is those people at the top income brackets paying lower taxes than middle class Americans earning a fraction of the affluents earnings. The problem is millions being unable to afford healthcare. Etc, etc, etc.
The list of inequality is very very long. -
Quote from Frumious
The problem is a very few at the top owning most of Americas resources. The problem is those people at the top income brackets paying lower taxes than middle class Americans earning a fraction of the affluents earnings. The problem is millions being unable to afford healthcare. Etc, etc, etc.
Sorry Frumious, but respectfully these are not true. I used to think this way when I had nothing, and saw that others who were less smart and hard working had more. But I realize now I had nothing because I brought nothing to the table.
Very few at the top don’t own most of America’s resources. And more importantly America’s primary resource is its intellectual resource. Amazon, MSFT, Google, Tesla all started with ideas, not because someone owned all of the timber or mines. The fact that there are laws that protect the ideas people create and their businesses functionaries, and let people keep the fruits of their labor is what allows these intellectual resources to flourish. These companies could not be built by exacting taxes and fuding some sort of agency. There is a reason why all of these tech companies have started in the US and not Europe. We are way more well off as a result.
Finally, the middle class in America makes more after taxes than the middle class in Europe. Not as a ratio of the upper class, but why should that matter? Is it then really jealousy we are speaking of when we talk of the ills of inequality? -
I’m not sure that Frumi is big on logic, in general, but I appreciated your post. I think NYK’s best skill is copying and pasting media articles from questionable sources that initially sound legitimate.
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To summarize so far:
1) Structural racism in Merica education has failed. Its clearly created by the whites to keep other races down, but the Asians now excel > whites. The whites who engineered the system failed or the system created was actually designed to allow for anyone to succeed. If the second, then perhaps our white overlords actually had benevolent intentions.
2) structural racism in radiology is the cause of decline of the middle class, why media bias happens, and the motivation for millionaires to work. Id also suggest that radiology racist policies have negatively impacted my $/rvu ratio.
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I’m not sure that I would have summarized this discussion similarly, but if that’s what you think, then so be it.
I think that after 1960s that systemic racism was made illegal, and subsequently the meritocracy, in large part, was the dominant force/norm in American elite institutions, business, and jobs.
Until, of course, the leftists start manipulating the ‘game’ and institutions again so that the ‘disaffected’ would be given a larger portion of the opportunity and resource ‘pie;’ meritocracy be damned. That’s how I see it at least.
And then a lot of copy and pastes ensued too…
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Liberals are the biggest hypocrites. They dont fight for minorities or for social justice. They fight for votes. They are more than happy to throw aside inconvenient successful minorities to achieve their goals of as many votes as possible to stay in power. Asians are not a massive voting block so dont matter. In fact its to dems advantage if they keep the poor as poor as possible. People doing well and rising in the world Dont tend to vote for top down govt whose focus is handouts to the poor. This had been happening since the roman times. Appeal to the masses regardless of whether it is morally or logically correct
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They don’t really fight for votes, because US is not 1 person 1 vote. in US, The rural America rules over the majority of people. If they wanted wins, they would pander to rural America. Rural votes count more than their numbers.
But Republicans talk about God and then distribute guns. They talk about God and give zero sick days to workers. They talk about God and give zero child care.
They just keep talking about God all day long. I would like to meet this God of yours and have a frank chat with him/her. -
They talk about god but lie to migrant families on Christmas Eve and put them on buses to go to Washington DC or tell them they have jobs waiting and put them on a plane to Marthas Vineyard
Owning the libs is not hypocritical and is very very very Christlike
Bad part is I can give you 100s more examples of Republican hypocrisy and ant Christian behavior
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Ahh, the sons of the Father of lies again talking about how Christian others aren’t … ironic
That’s what we expect of them. And why their political religion is based on covetousness. -
You are a fng nut job
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Quote from Chirorad84
You are a fng nut job
Another informative post from the coveter general. But you’re a “good person” right? -
Frumious, your problem is that you are looking at the bigger picture and trying to be considerate about how your fellow Americans are faring. This stuff about middle and lower socioeconomic class, whether they have health care and such. It’s like you have this vision of America as a great nation for all its people or something.
You are supposed to worry only about your own success and whether the people of your race are being restricted from gaining your piece of the pie. All others, let them eat cake.
———–“And think of all the hate there is in Red China
Then take a look around to Selma, Alabama
Ah, you may leave here for four days in space
But when you return, it’s the same old place
The poundin’ of the drums, the pride and disgrace
You can bury your dead, but don’t leave a trace
Hate your next door neighbor but don’t forget to say grace
And you tell me
Over and over and over and over again, my friend
You don’t believe we’re on the eve of destruction
No no, you don’t believe we’re on the eve of destruction.” -
Quote from DOCDAWG
We found out that 74% of millennials believe millionaires inherited their money and more than half (52%) of baby boomers think the same thing.1
But our study of millionaires blows that theory out of the water. Here are the facts:
Only 21% of millionaires received any inheritance at all.
Just 16% inherited more than $100,000.
And get this: Only 3% received an inheritance at or above $1 million!2
Think about that: Most folks believe millionaires simply inherited their wealth, but the vast majority of millionaires didnt get any inheritance at alland those who did certainly didnt get enough to make them millionaires!
Nobody talked about millionaires.
None of this disproves that as a group, whites receive more inherited wealth than both native blacks and immigrants. Some researchers claim that inherited wealth [i]’account for more of the racial wealth gap than any other demographic or socioeconomic indicator’ [/i]
Differences in income may be the result of how hard different groups work and how well they are able to take advantage of the US educational system. Differences in wealth are confounded by the inherited wealth factor.
Not gonna write a paper for you, but this is from the fed, comes with references:
[link=https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/notes/feds-notes/disparities-in-wealth-by-race-and-ethnicity-in-the-2019-survey-of-consumer-finances-20200928.html]https://www.federalreserv…finances-20200928.html[/link] -
Quote from 67ED5CC042435
Quote from BHE
Also, FWIW, here are US government figures for income by race. Asian American men and women markedly outperform other ethnic groups (including white), and it’s not close. There’s nothing *mythical* about it. It’s just reality.
Again, I don’t know why, but denying reality is rarely helpful in the long run.
[link=https://www.dol.gov/agencies/wb/data/earnings/median-annual-sex-race-hispanic-ethnicity]https://www.dol.gov/agencies/wb/data/earnings/median-annual-sex-race-hispanic-ethnicity[/link]
It would be helpful to view the data by geography. 80k income is a lot in central Arkansas but not New York City or San Francisco. But Asians dont live in central Arkansas. I bet the gap between Asians and their white peers would disappear when comparing to their geographic peers rather than the nation as a whole.
That’s a good point and I’m sure that’s a factor, but don’t think it’s so simple: The white people who leave rural Arkansas for NYC/SF probably on average make a lot more $$ than those who stay on the farm. But, those who move are also, I think, more highly educated etc. So, it’s not just the fact that they live somewhere else dictating difference in income. It’s also being someone from rural Arkansas who can get an engineering job at google, for example.
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Indians have the highest income of any ethnic group in the US.
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Quote from BHE
Also, FWIW, here are US government figures for income by race. Asian American men and women markedly outperform other ethnic groups (including white), and it’s not close. There’s nothing *mythical* about it. It’s just reality.
Again, I don’t know why, but denying reality is rarely helpful in the long run.
[link=https://www.dol.gov/agencies/wb/data/earnings/median-annual-sex-race-hispanic-ethnicity]https://www.dol.gov/agencies/wb/data/earnings/median-annual-sex-race-hispanic-ethnicity[/link]
Yeah, can’t deny that…While I don’t think children need a traditional nuclear family (eg. heterosexual male dad, female mother etc) to be “successful”, growing up in an unstable environment (eg. one parent, never married, multiple siblings, economic stress etc), certainly stacks the cards against one from the get-go -
East Asian parents prioritize their children’s educational and career success above all else… above the parents’ career aspirations, personal development, relationship, love life, finances, retirement, everything, even above the children’s emotional or physical development or joy or character. The Confucian ethic of the pre-Communist “middle earth” (China’s name for itself in chinese) has been re-channeled in the west and even in the east e.g. modern day South Korean, Japan, and Taiwan – into capitalism and consumerism. I’m not saying it’s a good thing or a bad thing, it’s just the metric that Americans also like to look at – money – and this is the metric East Asian parents have a laser-like focus on.
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I don’t want to stereotype, but my generic asian friends have least sex and least fun ( not by choice) as compared to my latino or white or some black friends. I would rather earn less money and have more sex.
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Quote from Flounce
East Asian parents prioritize their children’s educational and career success above all else… above the parents’ career aspirations, personal development, relationship, love life, finances, retirement, everything, even above the children’s emotional or physical development or joy or character. The Confucian ethic of the pre-Communist “middle earth” (China’s name for itself in chinese) has been re-channeled in the west and even in the east e.g. modern day South Korean, Japan, and Taiwan – into capitalism and consumerism. I’m not saying it’s a good thing or a bad thing, it’s just the metric that Americans also like to look at – money – and this is the metric East Asian parents have a laser-like focus on.
So what about Non-East Asians? What about Native Americans?
Wheres the How We Got Here: The Legacy of Anti-Native American Discrimination in Radiology article?
Ive never met a Native American radiologist. So theyre just forgotten and disposable as far as the woked are concerned?
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Quote from 67ED5CC042435
That is not to say they dont receive discrimination once they get her either. But it is different than what Black Americans have and do endure.
You give the racists too much credit. I dont think they make a difference whether they encounter a native born black american vs. an immigrant from lets say Nigeria or Trinidad.
The biggest difference I see is that the high achieving immigrants for the most part had the benefit of an education in the british education system. Also, if everyone in your school including the teachers looks like you (save for some expat kids), there is no risk of attributing individual failure on lets say a standardized test to something as minor as melanin expression. -
Immigrants come believing they can do something here to improve their lot. Many born-here Americans think their advancement is next to impossible even as they have a dream to advance. Its not color so much as hopelessness & being exploited.
The believe part is missing in many Americans while believe is what drives immigrants.
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For those wondering what the definition of woke is, DeSantiss lawyer provided the definition:
In the trial challenging Florida Governor Ron DeSantis suspension of Hillsborough County State Attorney Andrew Warren, DeSantis lead lawyer said that woke means:
[blockquote] [b]it would be the belief there are systemic injustices in American society and the need to address them.[/b]
[/blockquote] That says it all.
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Quote from 67ED5CC042435
I think the faculty at liberal arts and medical colleges and by extension leadership at most major medical societies believe in that racial equality is achievable. But these same groups are not the drivers of inequality. Its the general populace itself. I am not convinced equality will be achieved in my lifetime, but I also think we should as a society be egalitarian and skin color should not determine ones class or final station in life. But history shows colorism transcends cultures. And I believe at our core we are still tribal and skin color is an intrinsic differentiator.
If we’re going to have racial equality, jewish and many East Asian groups, esp Indian Americans, are going to need to make a good bit less. Or are we hoping for a Lake Wobegon situation where everyone is above average?
Also, I find these discussion tend to take a very myopic view of race and geography. Need to consider all the data– including all races, and all parts of the world (taking account of obvious historical differences in different places).
Certain ethnic groups have thrived around the world, not just in the US. They seem to be doing something right.-
Why do Jewish & East Indian groups need to make a good bit less in order to establish racial equality? Jews & Indians are preventing equality by earning too much?
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I agree that poverty and not race should determine some seats in admission. Similarly, just because your granddad went to Ivy , you should not get that privilege because of that. It could also be a lottery system with only 1 family member availing it on the basis of economic hardship per family in a lifetime.
Meanwhile, In a deposition released on Tuesday, an executive at Fox News Media, David Clark, who previously oversaw Fox Newss weekend programming, said he did not consider Mr. Carlsons program or the program hosted by Sean Hannity to be a credible source of news.
Liars, Lies and making money off of lies. Raking 45 million USD a year in salaries off of the lies ! AntiWoke my foot.
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RADD2010 said: Meanwhile, In a deposition released on Tuesday, an executive at Fox News Media, David Clark, who previously oversaw Fox Newss weekend programming, said he did not consider Mr. Carlsons program or the program hosted by Sean Hannity to be a credible source of news.
Liars, Lies and making money off of lies. Raking 45 million USD a year in salaries off of the lies ! AntiWoke my foot.
What does this have anything to do with anything we are talking about? Did you post this in the wrong thread?
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It is perfectly apt.
OP is extrapolating Fox News propaganda and their Antiwoke lying warriors ( Sean Hannity and Tucker C) who are making 45 million USD a year by selling lies; to Radiology.
The Antiwoke rant that is raking millions for Fox News ( just like Antivaccination news was) has polluted OP’s mind. Same arguments are being applied to radiology ( as being woke)
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Mkay..
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Funny you should ask that dawg, Times has article on just that, intractable poverty.
[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/09/magazine/poverty-by-america-matthew-desmond.html?unlocked_article_code=X-NNLjbwUfUt3xdKFxc0l4DE8kFEyWjOJW7jurNm3TxwLvBDO4zwBSrMHBu4sp1LKmwXSKN2qG3HjUlcbUvEnqWwjN_EADtMcbBoEs0SQ9dqxr2W8KEtWYe4GtA7zjxsqy9aoBc8N3qODp5PV59bYGKF1tQ4bFJafYavkA6p3PAFQ6SfE9f4vPe5OwlthZ4K0efh6Coy280cl0_Tmq-zgHhIywthSSiivViTKm3d9_Wq60AM-iLJAXOk5jsqD45iBRZKRbCsaCt6vs4PxxntsKCwaO2qx3uvnrKAYyDujlsNE1cmUptS6iJotSTlJYhuzwd_koxz_a6uo8-4DjtcpAzJGO1AEUsds8XUyg&smid=url-share]https://www.nytimes.com/2…ds8XUyg&smid=url-share[/link]
As Michael Harrington put it 60 years ago: It is much easier in the United States to be decently dressed than it is to be decently housed, fed or doctored.
There are, it would seem, deeper structural forces at play, ones that have to do with the way the American poor are routinely taken advantage of. The primary reason for our stalled progress on poverty reduction has to do with the fact that we have not confronted the unrelenting exploitation of the poor in the labor, housing and financial markets.
As a theory of poverty, exploitation elicits a muddled response, causing us to think of course and but, no in the same instant. The word carries a moral charge, but social scientists have a fairly coolheaded way to measure exploitation: When we are underpaid relative to the value of what we produce, we experience labor exploitation; when we are overcharged relative to the value of something we purchase, we experience consumer exploitation. For example, if a family paid $1,000 a month to rent an apartment with a market value of $20,000, that family would experience a higher level of renter exploitation than a family who paid the same amount for an apartment with a market valuation of $100,000. When we dont own property or cant access credit, we become dependent on people who do and can, which in turn invites exploitation, because a bad deal for you is a good deal for me.
Our vulnerability to exploitation grows as our liberty shrinks. Because undocumented workers are not protected by labor laws, more than a third are paid below minimum wage, and nearly 85 percent are not paid overtime. Many of us who are U.S. citizens, or who crossed borders through official checkpoints, would not work for these wages. We dont have to. If they migrate here as adults, those undocumented workers choose the terms of their arrangement. But just because desperate people accept and even seek out exploitative conditions doesnt make those conditions any less exploitative. Sometimes exploitation is simply the best bad option.
Consider how many employers now get one over on American workers. The United States offers some of the lowest wages in the industrialized world. A larger share of workers in the United States make low pay earning less than two-thirds of median wages than in any other country belonging to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. According to the group, nearly 23 percent of American workers labor in low-paying jobs, compared with roughly 17 percent in Britain, 11 percent in Japan and 5 percent in Italy. Poverty wages have swollen the ranks of the American working poor, most of whom are 35 or older.
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Quote from peehdee
I agree with the OP.
If you start looking for unfairness in everything, there will be something that seems unfair! Being male, being born into a family with wealth, being better looking, being better at speaking, being tall, being naturally skinny, having bigger boobs, etcAt what point do we start looking for unfairness?
I dont think RSNA should apologize. Whos next? ACR? AMA??
Remember a who half of the nation sent their children, brothers (maybe sisters?) fathers to fight end slavery. Thousands of whites have given their lives for equality and justice. Where is the thank you for that?
There is none. It doesn’t matter what one does, or says. Of course, this is all part of the plan. The statute of limitations on slavery, for example, or the Holocaust, for that matter, never ends – even when no one is around anymore that has the faintest clue of what happened, or what was reported about what happened. Why? Victimhood pays, or it still does at this point, so what interest is there in stopping complaining? None.
The sooner the boomers and older pass on, the better. Enough is enough. The good thing is, these kinds of things take care of themselves (the money runs out eventually, then no one has the time to act like they care about BS anymore). The problem is we have to deal with lies and racism against the actually competent groups in the meantime. -
What could it all mean?
