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What was your reaction to getting the Pfizer COVID vaccine?
HCWs in my neck of the woods have started getting the first dose of the vaccine. Some report just injection site pain, some report significant symptoms the next day like a bad hangover. What have your reactions been?
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154 Replies
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2 extra bars on my 5G cellphone.
And I signed up for all kinds of microsoft recurring services.-
Sore arm and fatigue same day as injection. All improved day later.
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Still waiting to get it.
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How long does the vaccine last?
What does 95% effective mean? Against death, getting covid, severe Covid?
How will we get back to normal if you can still get it with vaccine and die? Or will those 5% have a less severe case?
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It is very clearly describe what 95 % means if you do 5 seconds of research.
Its pretty scary TBH how so many doctors cannot understand these extremely basic concepts about a vaccine and then we expect laypeople to.-
^^ you couldve told me in 5 seconds instead of typing that bs.
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It meant what it says, 20x less likely to get COVID.
[link=https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577]https://www.nejm.org/doi/.ll/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577[/link]
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If everyone gets the vaccine, the R0 will be less than 1. The virus will eventually be eradicated just like polio.
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Got it this morning
Nothing so far side effect wise ( knock on wood)
I am however swearing allegiance to Bill gates and George soros
The microchip
Is obviously kicking in-
How are you all getting it? Only the ICU and ER staff are getting it at our hospital systems…
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Quote from Drrad123
How will we get back to normal if you can still get it with vaccine and die? Or will those 5% have a less severe case?
The same way we were at “normal” before, despite the fact that people still died of infectious diseases every year, even those for which we have (imperfect) vaccines and/or treatments. Per WHO, in 2018 more than 140,000 people (worldwide) died of measles (mostly children under age 5– how’s that for QALY?).
Pre-covid, plenty of people, even in the US, died of viral pneumonia every year (of course not as many as this year, due to covid, which is far worse than what typically circulates; but not infinitely worse). People are still dying from the 1918 flu.***
If getting back to normal required zero covid deaths, we would never get back to normal. As Fauci said at the beginning of this, we will never completely eliminate this virus.
When the # of serious cases and deaths get to a certain point, people will stop worrying about it so much and will get back to normal, or maybe a slightly altered normal. That’s it. It will still circulate. People will still die. It just won’t be nearly as risky as it is now.
*** a while back I posted a really nice old article from the CDC about how the 1918 flu never really went away. The history channel has a more popularized article on the same thing, “Why the 1918 Flu Pandemic Never Really Ended”, linked below. sars-cov-2 will never really end either. It will just become part of the regular environment of respiratory infections, with most people having some immunity from vaccines/previous exposure.
[link=https://www.history.com/news/1918-flu-pandemic-never-ended]https://www.history.com/n…u-pandemic-never-ended[/link]
[i]”the H1N1 strain that caused the Spanish flu receded into the background and stuck around as the regular seasonal flu”[/i]
“[i]the 1918 flu … started as an avian flu (and) [b]represented a completely new viral strain when it made the leap to humans[/b] shortly before 1918[/i]” (sound familiar?)
“[i]Since the whole world had been exposed to the virus, and had therefore developed natural immunity against it, the 1918 strain began to mutate and evolve in a process called antigenic drift. Slightly altered versions of the 1918 flu reemerged in the winters of 1919-1920 and 1920-1921, but they were far less deadly and nearly indistinguishable from the seasonal flu[/i]”.
“[b][i]But whats truly incredible, according to genetic analyses, is that the same novel strain of flu first introduced in 1918 appears to be the direct ancestor of every seasonal and pandemic flu weve had over the past century[/i][/b].”
“.[i].. 50 to 100 million people died in the 1918 and 1919 pandemic, and tens of millions more have died in the ensuing century of seasonal flus and pandemic outbreaks, then all of those deaths can be attributed to the single and accidental emergence in humans of the very successful and stubborn 1918 virus. [/i]”
[i][b]Were still living in what I would call the 1918 pandemic era 102 years later[/b] says Taubenberger, and I dont know how long it will last.[/i]
We have eliminated smallpox. So far, for human diseases that’s it as far as I know (apparently we have also eradicated rinderpest virus, which affected cattle and some other animals). If you’re waiting for “covid zero” (elimination of covid) you should just try to find a very small island where you can live in isolation, or some other means to completely stop interacting with other humans, because otherwise you will always face some risk from covid (and influenza, and …). Although I suspect your life expectancy would not increase.
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Injection site pain and malaise (like the way you feel before you get sick), day after vaccine.
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The 1918 influenza was not a direct ancestor of all pandemics. That makes no sense. The pandemics have quite different antigenic make-up.
H2 virus caused the pandemic of 1889.
H3 virus caused the pandemic of 1900.
H1 virus caused the pandemic of 1918.
H2 virus caused the pandemic of 1957.
H3 virus caused the pandemic of 1968.
H1 virus caused the mini-pandemic of 1986.
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Flu is a poor comparison because of the way it does antigen swapping. Hence vaccines are unpredictable and frequently ineffective. Despite lots of news of new covid strains, I dont believe the mutations are as pronounced as with flu (and so means we have a more reliable chance of severely reducing the disease prevalence with vaccine). So it could still stick around, but could be more like measles rather than flu as far as disease prevalence, and it isnt out of the question that it could go the way of small pox
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Quote from vonbraun
The 1918 influenza was not a direct ancestor of all pandemics. That makes no sense. The pandemics have quite different antigenic make-up.
H2 virus caused the pandemic of 1889.
H3 virus caused the pandemic of 1900.
H1 virus caused the pandemic of 1918.
H2 virus caused the pandemic of 1957.
H3 virus caused the pandemic of 1968.
H1 virus caused the mini-pandemic of 1986.
Read article from CDC, published in 2006.
[link=https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/12/1/05-0979_article]https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid…e/12/1/05-0979_article[/link]
“[i]The impact of this pandemic was not limited to 19181919. [b]All influenza A pandemics since that time, and indeed almost all cases of influenza A worldwide (excepting human infections from avian viruses such as H5N1 and H7N7), have been caused by descendants of the 1918 virus[/b], including “drifted” H1N1 viruses and reassorted H2N2 and H3N2 viruses. The latter are composed of key genes from the 1918 virus, updated by subsequently incorporated avian influenza genes that code for novel surface proteins, [b]making the 1918 virus indeed the “mother” of all pandemics.[/b][/i]”
“…[i] confirm that the 1918 virus is the likely ancestor of all 4 of the human and swine H1N1 and H3N2 lineages, as well as the “extinct” H2N2 lineage[/i]”-
I dont think we will know the true side effect profile or death rate from taking the vaccine for the same reason we never know how many people were infected. We purposely didn’t test people so that Trump could downplay the problem and hope it would go away and he could win the election. We want everyone to be vaccinated now, the last thing we want to do is report problems from a side effect. If someone dies after receiving the vaccine, you can be sure they are going to look really hard at everything and try to pin it out on something else – oh he just happened to die from cardiac arrest, he had heart problems to begin with. The true profile of side effects wont be known for years I think. I know they’ve already been tested by thousand, but I will let you all trust the data on that. I know the corruption behind phamarceutical studies, the greed in the race to be the first to come out with the drug/vaccine…I will trust the data once all the smoke clears, couple years in my opinion. The little I do know, I’m sure the vaccine does a lot more good than harm and everyone taking it is great for the public health of the world.
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Theres this presumption by governments, especially ours, that we are incapable of acting in the public interest and that we are too dim witted to understand that public and personal interests can occasionally conflict, and so therefore we need to be coddled/manipulated into believing something is in our personal interest.
Im not sure what bothers me more, those cynical practices, or my fear they may actually be correct
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While I’m very pro-vaccine, I definitely respect your right to make your own decision about what to do with your body. Few if any rights more fundamental than that.
Hopefully those who don’t want to take the vaccine now will keep an open mind, and assuming we don’t have any unexpected problems perhaps many will change their minds over time. -
arm pain night of vaccine , 48 hours after vaccine started getting low grade fevers and chills have had these for 16 hours so far
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against getting covid
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Quote from gladrad
Sore arm and fatigue same day as injection. All improved day later.
same
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[:D][:D][:D][:D]
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Got it this morning.
Hospital was supposed to have a “tiered” system for who should get it first. IR in tier 1 but diagnostics in tier 2.
When it came time to actually give the vaccine they sort of gave up and it was first come first serve. Very strange and fairly unorganized.
The US doesn’t do pandemics well….. (aside form the science part).
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Nothing day of. Mild body aches and malaise the evening of the following day but its hard to determine the exact etiology of the symptoms because I skied all day the following day.
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Just arm pain at the sight that resolves after a day or so. 5 of my coworkers I talked to today said the same thing. No fever or headaches for any of us. We range in age from 35 to 64.
They did say the second injection will typically give a more noticeable immune response with fever, aches and chills.-
Mildly sore arm for one day. Nothing else
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The manager told me there have been 3 bad reactions to the vaccine in the US and they all just happened to be in AK. Thinking maybe we got a bad batch. I get mine tomorrow am.
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Soreness at injection site.
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No reaction at all
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Headache and some chills. Pain at injection site.
Honestly, its better to have some sort of immune response, you know that the mRNA is creating an immune response…. You don’t want a vaccine that was not chilled appropriately and the mRNA denatured.-
I can feel my deltoid muscle cell ribosomes cranking out the full spike antigen…..
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Arm hurts more than with other vaccinations I have had. Wonder why?
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Maybe because its super cold?
Im interested to come back to this thread in three weeks to hear how people do with the second dose.
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Good thought.
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Its not super cold by the time its injected. Definitely not the answer.
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It was injected through a normal tb type syringe. Don’t know how much cold those syringes can tolerate.
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got it a week ago. mild injection site pain day after, and gone the day after that.
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Think about how the vaccine is prepared. Vial come out of deep freeze. Pharmacist injects a solution into the vial. The solution is then drawn up into a syringe for administration. It will then be transported to where it is administered. The nurse told me it must be used within 7 hours but its not stored cold at that point.
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Mild ache @ injection site persisting 18 hrs.
Interesting vaccinator observation at our small hospital: all physicians have signed up/received the vaccination. Majority of nurses opted out.
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Zero symptoms and not even pain at the site. Normally flu shot hurts a little, this not at all
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major reaction:
Relief and giddiness
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Quote from Phil Shaffer
major reaction:
Relief and giddinessHope. Hope that this is the beginning of the end of this thing.
As for the physical reaction: Soreness at the injection site in the 24-48hr window.
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Day 1: some skin tingling for maybe 20 minutes
Day 2: sore arm
Day 3: nothing -
inj site pain and then flu like symptoms for 2 days.
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Thank you, guinea pigs
Now tell the central planners to quit the plandemic stuff already, the businesses they wanted destroyed are close to there.-
^ not a physician.
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We can only hope CR is a telerad, lives alone, has no contact with techs, residents, family, or anyone else in society.
Just seems impossible someone like that could have graduated from medical school with his/her views and is actually a respected part of society. -
48 hours of shoulder pain. More than flu vaccine ever was. Felt like I was recovering from a hard punch.
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Im at 72 hrs. Barely getting better and truly painful deltoid at injection site.
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Day of very fatigued by late afternoon, myalgias in my chest and quads.
Day 2, systemic symptoms resolved except new occipital headache. Felt like a deep bruise in my deltoid with reduced rom.
Day 3, mild shoulder pain, back to full rom
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When I sat down, I asked the nurse to show me the injection vial. It was a very small vial, with Pfizer written on it. The nurse who gave me the shot told me that the deltoid area that he got vaccine in, hurts 48 hour post. He rolled up his sleeve. That area was swollen 48 hours post ! and was rock hard with a golf ball size ! I asked the nurse if he moved around his arm much after the shot. He said he didn’t. So, I reminded myself to work out the arm after I get the shot. I sat 20 minutes in the waiting room in case I get a reaction (kept moving my arm). Worked out 3 hours later and did shoulder press with rack and dumbbells ! Got increasing pain around 11 PM. Couldn’t sleep on that shoulder side through the night, got better in AM. No golf ball size rock in the delt. Just a little sore if I touch. Got in more sleep than usual, as if the body was fighting something. So, exercising the arm after injection helped avoiding the rock, but the pain was there the night of (5/10). Was ready to work out in the gym the next day !
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Soreness at the injection site which went away after 1 day, just like a flu shot.
I also got autism a few days later.
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Got first dose of Moderna, today. 28 days to second dose. Seems to be a big operation to organize the vaccination of the willing employees. Should be chaos vaccinating the general pop.
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Runny nose for a couple of hours, later the same day, presumably related.
Shoulder injection site was a little sore, only noticed when I was doing bench press.
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Soreness at the site. Really only when I raise my arm. Never get that with flu. Reminds me of what I was always told would happen with TDAP but never did. A partner said he had chills that night. None for me so far.
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The next full moon is Dec 29, so we won’t know the real side effects thill then…
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I got 1st dose of the Moderna vaccine. The next day, woke up with body chills, body aches, mild headache, severe arm soreness, but no fever. Feel very tired as well. I’m still in the 1st 24 hours.
This has been worse than any vaccine/flu shot I’ve gotten before. I haven’t been diagnosed with COVID before, but work in a setting where 80% of people who worked in close proximity to me came down with COVID a few months ago.-
Shot #1 may have been more like booster shot #2 for you then…
Just an educated guess, but I would think people with significant but expected reactions to the first shot probably have a higher likelihood of previous COVID infection.
What you describe is closer to what people are expecting from the 2nd shot.
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I have not had one message from bill gates or George soros since getting the vaccine 1 week ago
Maybe my microchip was defective
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Chips may take a week to activate. I received the Pfizer vaccine 1 week ago. Santa gave me a laptop with Windows 10 and a free year of Office 360. Thanks Bill…I mean Santa!
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I had very mild pain if I pushed really hard at the injection site from like 12-24 hrs post injection. Way less intense than the flu vaccine. Now I’m worried the nurse screwed it up or I got a dud.
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I didn’t listen to Louis Farrakhan and had the “toxic waste” Pfizer vaccine.
So far so good. My wife has a list of stuff for me to do after the second dose.-
By the way we need celebs to step up and do what Elvis did for polio on the Ed Sullivan Show – getting vaccinated on live TV. He also told teenage boys that girls won’t go out with you if you are not vaccinated!
BTW the virus microchip is much more accurate than my ankle bracelet.
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Quote from mskrads
I got 1st dose of the Moderna vaccine. The next day, woke up with body chills, body aches, mild headache, severe arm soreness, but no fever. Feel very tired as well. I’m still in the 1st 24 hours.
This has been worse than any vaccine/flu shot I’ve gotten before. I haven’t been diagnosed with COVID before, but work in a setting where 80% of people who worked in close proximity to me came down with COVID a few months ago.
I got Moderna Tuesday. Had the same feels the day after, but I had a slight fever at 99.x. normally I’m 97.1. Today i feel totally normal except my shoulder still hurts like a MF’r. Supposedly some of the pharmacists here are saying people who have covid have worse side affects. I’ve never been diagnosed with it or felt like I had it.
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[link=https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9119431/Miami-doctor-58-dies-three-weeks-receiving-Pfizer-Covid-19-vaccine.html]https://www.dailymail.co….-Covid-19-vaccine.html[/link]
58 yo otherwise healthy obstetrician develops ITP several days after the first dose and dies on day 16 from a hemorrhagic stroke
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Also had the moderna vaccine and experienced pretty severe pain at injection site starting about 18 hours after shot was given and then developed malaise, fatigue and some myalgia the next day. All had resolved within 48 hours of the injection, though
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Looking back, I had a few days of just decreased energy level. Felt like I needed a nap in the afternoon. My wife had some myalgias.
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Feel fine, only difference is awesome cellphone reception
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So the Bill Gates’ chip improves cell reception.
Good to know.-
Definitely
Mini antenna in the microscopic microchip
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Ive had about a week now of fairly bad cold/flu symptoms. Maybe just coincidence but started about 3 days after vaccine.
Also had more than usual soreness at injection site that went away after my shoulder workout.
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Quote from tigershark06
Ive had about a week now of fairly bad cold/flu symptoms. Maybe just coincidence but started about 3 days after vaccine.
Also had more than usual soreness at injection site that went away after my shoulder workout.
This might be obvious, but some people are expected to get COVID in the week or two after the vaccine just like they would have normally. There is a sharp increase in protection after about day 12 or so of shot #1.
A week of bad cold/flu symptoms starting day 3 post vaccine isn’t exactly within the typical range of expected post vaccine symptoms, probably should go get tested for COVID.
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I did to be careful and it was negative
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Moderna
Day of – nada. relief!
Day 2 – severe headache, moderate fatigue, feverish/chills. Was really bad. Slept it off, then –>
Day 3 – back to baseline-
Anecdotally from this thread, seems like a fair prevalence of significant side effects. Hope you’re all feeling back to normal soon.
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I’m too lazy to research it. What does the science say about acquiring infection after being vaccinated, and then passing that infection on to your family?
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Quote from Radsoxfan
Quote from tigershark06
Ive had about a week now of fairly bad cold/flu symptoms. Maybe just coincidence but started about 3 days after vaccine.
Also had more than usual soreness at injection site that went away after my shoulder workout.
This might be obvious, but some people are expected to get COVID in the week or two after the vaccine just like they would have normally. There is a sharp increase in protection after about day 12 or so of shot #1.
A week of bad cold/flu symptoms starting day 3 post vaccine isn’t exactly within the typical range of expected post vaccine symptoms, probably should go get tested for COVID.
We had a little covid19 outbreak at our hospital. Some people were recently vaccinated others weren’t. Most likely they were infected before or shortly after getting the vaccine as they didn’t have symptoms until a few days after the vaccine. Mostly respiratory therapists and lab personnel.
I’m getting my second dose next week I hope. They called me today and rescheduled me from Tuesday to Thursday due to “logistical issues”.-
I got the Moderna vaccine.
Day 1, I was fine. Day 2 woke up with headache, sore neck, which got progressively worse throughout the day, along with new onset of chills. I had to go home early. By that night chills got worse, prominent fatigue kicked in. I slept it off, but then had feverish feeling during the night. On Day 3, all of the syptoms gradually resolved. By Day 4, I’m fine.
Oh, and my arm hurt like hell for 3 days. I’ve had a mildly sore arm with the flu shot, but never these flu-like symptoms.-
Moderna.
Moderately sore arm 2 days.
Took a nap on day 2. No ague etc. Basically minimal Sx.
I anticipate shot #2 will be more of an issue.-
What age range are you all in?
Risk analysis is re-surfacing again as not only shocking, but pathetic.-
This is like when Trump goes on an a bizarro rant about some nonsense conspiracy theory.
It makes no sense until you realize he is projecting and describing himself.
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Eh as randy Newman says, short people got no reason to live. Just ignore the little fella.
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Eh as randy Newman says, short people got no reason to live. Just ignore the little fella.
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Pfizer. Nasal congestion for a few days
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You know in the Pfizer vaccine Phase 3 trial after the first shot, 33% reported fatigue, 33% reported HA, 6% reported chills, 1% reported vomiting, 11% reported diarrhea, 10% reported myalgias, and 6% reported new or worse joint pain……
ALL IN THE PLACEBO GROUP. -
Quote from vonbraun
You know in the Pfizer vaccine Phase 3 trial after the first shot, 33% reported fatigue, 33% reported HA, 6% reported chills, 1% reported vomiting, 11% reported diarrhea, 10% reported myalgias, and 6% reported new or worse joint pain……
Ive had one or more of those symptoms every day since the pandemic started. Always wondering if I had been infected. Now that I am day 12 post inoculation #1 they seem to be decreasing… -
Pfizer
Sore arm, chills, body aches night of vaccination, almost a short recapitulation of my covid mild infection 8 months prior, but without the anosmia. -
Quote from spongiform
Pfizer
Sore arm, chills, body aches night of vaccination, almost a short recapitulation of my covid mild infection 8 months prior, but without the anosmia.
Would be interesting to see some studies of shot 1 in people with known or suspected previous COVID infections. Or unsuspected COVID but antibody positive pre shot.
I suspect these people are getting a higher than average side effect profile, more similar to shot 2 for naive patients. Their Ab titers are probably pretty high after shot 1 as well.
If anyone can skip dose 2, its probably people with previous infections and dose 1. Maybe no need for a triple dose. -
Quote from Radsoxfan
Quote from spongiform
Pfizer
Sore arm, chills, body aches night of vaccination, almost a short recapitulation of my covid mild infection 8 months prior, but without the anosmia.Would be interesting to see some studies of shot 1 in people with known or suspected previous COVID infections. Or unsuspected COVID but antibody positive pre shot.
I suspect these people are getting a higher than average side effect profile, more similar to shot 2 for naive patients. Their Ab titers are probably pretty high after shot 1 as well.
If anyone can skip dose 2, its probably people with previous infections and dose 1. Maybe no need for a triple dose.
2.x% were AB positive at enrollment, 0.6% were RT-PCR+. Between the two phase III trials there should be a big enough study group to answer that very question.
Fwiw my BIL who had pcr+ covid in July took the vaccine and had no unusual reaction.
I don’t consider it a given that the reaction to the vaccine is equivalent to the wild type infection. It elicits a robust immune response to a very narrowly specified antigen on the spike protein while the native infection response is a spectrum of ABs to all kinds of sars-cov2 related proteins.
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That’s why they should study it :).
I know a couple of Ab positive who had pretty significant (though still no big deal overall) responses to shot #1. Totally anecdotal, who knows.
The mRNA vaccine antibody response is only to the receptor binding domain (RBD) of the spike protein, so a narrower spectrum than native infection. But this is still a polyclonal response and felt to be broad enough to prevent mutations for allowing escape. I’m sure there is some overlap between native Ab responses and vaccine induced Ab responses.
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Quote from Flounce
I’m too lazy to research it. What does the science say about acquiring infection after being vaccinated, and then passing that infection on to your family?
Doesn’t sound like we know for sure. It makes sense that it’s far less likely to pass it on as a vaccinated person but perhaps not impossible.
Clearly a vaccinated person can be exposed and transiently have active virus in them, but presumably they will fight this off much more quickly than someone that hasn’t been vaccinated.
Is there a chance they could pass it on at some point in that short window? Possible. Regardless, I would be shocked if its anything close to the chances of passing it on as an unvaccinated person. -
Quote from vonbraun
You know in the Pfizer vaccine Phase 3 trial after the first shot, 33% reported fatigue, 33% reported HA, 6% reported chills, 1% reported vomiting, 11% reported diarrhea, 10% reported myalgias, and 6% reported new or worse joint pain……
ALL IN THE PLACEBO GROUP.
Exactly!!
About 10 minutes after I got dose #1 I had some lower back pain (and no the shot was not in that area). This is not a particularly uncommon occurrence for me, but I was thinking, “If I were in a vaccine trial where they are looking carefully for any side effects I would be one of those with myalgia.” Had nothing to do with the vaccine (it was my typical lower back pain, and resolved in typical time frame).
So far we have administered something like 3M doses, and as far as I know no one has died from the vaccine (small # of treated severe allergic reactions). I wonder how many deaths from covid-19 there would be with 3M people of similar age distribution infected?? It ain’t zero. At some point this vaccine paranoia has got to go away.-
Agree BHE.
Having any physician promote anti vaccine policies now is real problem.
Despite being woefully misguided, friends and family actually listen to them based on an assumed knowledge. It just creates micro clusters of insanity making this whole thing more difficult.
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i’d say what you’ve noticed could easily simply be placebo + responder bias.
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Pfizers vaccine is mRNA that codes for the whole spike protein is my understanding.
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Quote from vonbraun
Pfizers vaccine is mRNA that codes for the whole spike protein is my understanding.
I think both Pfizer and Moderna are actually entire spike protein (there was a least one mainstream article months ago saying Moderna was only RBD, but they issued a correction and I assume the correction is correct).
As people said, still very different than actual infection where you have many more proteins.
Definitely some interesting questions as we try to do things like single dose, mix doses of different vaccines, etc.-
Whole virus inactivated vaccines have caused immune related disease enhancement. i.e. early RSV virus vaccine in the late 1960s. The mechanism is not understood, however may have to do with the production of a lot of half ass antibodies.
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Whole virus inactivated vaccines have caused immune related disease enhancement. i.e. early RSV virus vaccine in the late 1960s. It killed RSV vaccine R&D for decades. The mechanism is not understood, however may have to do with the production of a lot of half ass antibodies.
[link]https://cvi.asm.org/content/23/3/189[/link]
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I read awhile back it was only RBD but sounds like that was wrong, thanks for the correction.
Whole protein is probably preferable and I assume will help with a better polyclonal mutation resistant response.
And yes, by no means to I think a few anecdotes mean previously infected people definitely have a worse reaction to shot 1. But it wouldnt surprise me if they are at least partially primed more than a COVID naive person.
Would be interesting to see post shot #1 titers in people with confirmed prior infections vs confirmed no infection.
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thought I’d post this link to discussion about mutations evading the immune system on Twitter. From virology lab at U Michigan, and links to very nice preprint from Bloom lab at U Washington.
[link=https://mobile.twitter.com/LauringLab/status/1346449063315722240]https://mobile.twitter.co…us/1346449063315722240[/link]
good comments by both about what this means
my take: fortunately the immune responses of different people are very heterogenous. So while they did find mutations that can (to varying degrees, almost never completely) evade the Abs of some who were previously infected, the same mutations do not evade the responses of others. i.e. we don’t all generate the same sets of antibodies.
what it presumably means is that some strains could emerge that e.g. decrease vaccine efficacy– maybe goes from 95% to 80% (or some lower value of course), but seems unlikely that there will be a strain that just evades previous immune response in most people.
Interestingly it sounds like the highly transmissible strain that is of major concern now doesn’t do much in the way of evasion of current immune responses, which is very good. Having a strain that has both higher reproduction number and decreased susceptibility to prior immune response would be bad of course.
Similarly for the Ab drugs– they may or may not be less effective for a new strain (as Scott Gottlieb recently suggested they might be), but they aren’t widely used enough at this point for there to be significant selection pressure on the virus to evade them I don’t think. If a strain does it would be at least partly bad luck (see Bloom lab preprint– the “worst” mutation that essentially completely evaded Abs in one set of sera still showed no impact on sera from other people, so basically do the Ab drugs more closely mimic sera A or sera B?)
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Quote from arule2003
[link=https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9119431/Miami-doctor-58-dies-three-weeks-receiving-Pfizer-Covid-19-vaccine.html]https://www.dailymail.co….-Covid-19-vaccine.html[/link]
58 yo otherwise healthy obstetrician develops ITP several days after the first dose and dies on day 16 from a hemorrhagic stroke
Yes that’s bad. I’m never in favor withholding the truth from people, shading the information to get the response you want, etc, and I’m not in this case either.
Be open and honest. Give the public the whole truth. Let people decide what to do with their bodies based on that.
This is a tragic but so far apparently extremely rare case, just like the case reports in the news of healthy children dying of covid are tragic extremely rare cases.
The truth is, I don’t think it changes the risk/benefit of getting the vaccine appreciably. Rare autoimmune things are going to happen. [b]There is no zero-risk approach[/b]. However, I don’t expect discussions of risk, benefits, and tradeoffs to be any more reasonable on this then they have been for several other aspects of this pandemic. Mostly people will shout at those they disagree with and make personal attacks otherwise devoid of content.
What people shouldn’t do is look at this rare (currently possibly unique) case and assume they are at high risk of such serious complications, any more than people should over- or underestimate the risk from covid.
I’m getting my 2nd dose in a few days, and will be very happy to do so.-
58 yo otherwise healthy obstetrician develops ITP several days after the first dose and dies on day 16 from a hemorrhagic stroke .
16 days after my injection, I got a backache.
Temporal association or causative?-
Quote from vonbraun
58 yo otherwise healthy obstetrician develops ITP several days after the first dose and dies on day 16 from a hemorrhagic stroke .
16 days after my injection, I got a backache.
Temporal association or causative?
Come on, can’t we be more reasonable than this?
He developed signs/symptoms of ITP within days of the vaccine. The fact that he didn’t die for 2 more weeks is irrelevant.
Obviously it isn’t proof the vaccine caused the ITP, but it’s fairly likely.
One rare case hasn’t changed my pro-vaccine stance.-
As a physician it is likely that he was exposed to the virus in the hospital during all these months. It is acknowledged that those with a previous SARS CoV-2 infection will have a stronger reaction to the vaccine.
So could antibody testing before the vaccine be used as a way to further inform the risk vs. benefit analysis? If you have a significant antibody response and are otherwise healthy and at low risk for severe disease, forego the vaccine, at least for several months, because the risk goes up while the benefit goes down?
It seems that a high number of healthcare workers in NYC may be thinking along these lines and not rushing to get the vaccine
[link=https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9123231/NYC-Mayor-Blasio-slams-Cuomo-COVID-19-vaccine-use.html]NYC Mayor De Blasio slams Cuomo over COVID-19 vaccine use | Daily Mail Online[/link]-
Second Pfizer dose today
So far nothing at all
Not even arm soreness
Knock on wood
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Healthy people don’t need the vaccine. If you got it, just admit it, like Chiro (I mean kpack)
you’re a fatass-
You owe me 1500$ bucks
Pay my fatasss
Amazon gift card in my pm
Cmon big man pay up
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Aside
No real side effects today after second dose
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Had the pfizer vaccine.
First dose was a cake walk. Just some soreness in the arm.
Second dose kicked my butt. Fever above 100. Chills. Body aches. Migraine.-
When did youre symptoms start
Im about 16 hrs out
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had my second dose vaccine at 5:30 pm.
Symptoms started next morning. But I felt the brunt of it after I got home from work in the evening.
Today’s post vaccination day 2. Most of my symptoms have resolved. Just some mild body aches and a headache.-
24 hours since the second dose. So far just a sore arm like the first injection but I have been developing an increased disappointment in the republican party. Could be circumstantial or the microchip.
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Had mild headache and fatigue from first injection.
2nd injection was body aches starting around 12 hours and chills at 24. Resolved by 36 hours.-
It is acknowledged that those with a previous SARS CoV-2 infection will have a stronger reaction to the vaccine.
What is your data to support this assertion?
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Pfizer
First Dose: moderately sore arm for 24 hours
Second Dose: moderately sore arm for 24 hours (I’m currently 24 hours out)
Haven’t noticed anything else, hope I got the good stuff -
In the vaccine trials the side effects were more frequent after the second dose. Also, they have been less frequent and severe in those over 55.
This indicates that people with the immune system already primed by the contact with the spike protein and who can mount a strong immune response are at higher risk of side effects.-
Does not necessarily apply to people who had wild virus infection.
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Thats a hypothesis.
Does not necessarily apply to people who had wild virus infection.-
Does not necessarily apply to people who had wild virus infection.
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Actually had body aches about 18-20 hours after 2nd Pfizer dose
Advil pretty much knocked it out
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Got the second dose yesterday at 1 PM. Woke up at 1 AM with severe diffuse myalgia. Currently, still experiencing symptoms despite taking NSAIDs.
I dont consider myself being a psychosomatic type of person. Never had a reaction to a vaccine or drug. No health problems. Regularly exercise. 38 years old.
I didnt really have a reaction to the first dose except about a week after I noticed some mildly enlarged supraclavicular lymph nodes on the same side that are big enough to actually see in the mirror. I put a ultrasound down on them, the largest measured 17 x 7 mm. Definitely asymmetric, not present on the other side and new after the vaccine.
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Mild lymphadenopathy and myalgias common with the vaccine, I’m sure it’s related.
These are expected side effects, nothing out of the ordinary. Related to your immune response, take comfort your body is ramping up, many of my colleagues had the same thing. Some with pretty significant fevers for 24 hours.
I got very little other than a sore arm both times. Mild headache and chills in the 24-36 hr window after shot #2.
Edit: Just looking up the lymphadenopathy… it definitely happens though is less common than many of the other side effects. I don’t think all the patients in the study were automatically evaluated so I bet its more common than the numbers suggest. Here is the wording from the CDC.
[b]”Reports of lymphadenopathy were imbalanced with 58 more cases in the vaccine group (64) than the placebo group (6); lymphadenopathy is plausibly related to the vaccine. Lymphadenopathy occurred in the arm and neck region and was reported within 2 to 4 days after vaccination. The average duration of lymphadenopathy was approximately 10 days. Bells palsy was reported by four vaccine recipients and none of the placebo recipients. The observed frequency of reported Bells palsy in the vaccine group is consistent with the background rate in the general population, and there is no basis upon which to conclude a causal relationship.”[/b]
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I know a doc that was in the Moderna phase 3 trial. He had zero reactions to either injection. In fact, he was certain he received the placebo. Turns out, he had the actual vaccine after he asked Moderna to unblind him.
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I know these studies are well run, I’m sure he got the real thing.
But if that was me I would probably get a COVID antibody test just to be on the extra safe side 🙂 -
Quote from vonbraun
I know a doc that was in the Moderna phase 3 trial. He had zero reactions to either injection. In fact, he was certain he received the placebo. Turns out, he had the actual vaccine after he asked Moderna to unblind him.
Both approval studies are now offering the participants the opportunity to un-blind.-
Moderate sore arm and fatigue same day as second shot, next day pretty much normal
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Having some moderate sxs after second shot. Myalgias, headache, chills, feverish. Ugh. Dont feel well.
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Quote from ghostofosler
Having some moderate sxs after second shot. Myalgias, headache, chills, feverish. Ugh. Dont feel well.
No significant reaction to 1st dose. Received 2nd dosage Fri around noon, felt a bit nauseous later in the afternoon but otherwise ok. Woke up around midnight with pretty bad fiver/chills, body aches. Slept like crap and could have stayed in bed all day but had stuff to do. Got through the day with Dayquil but still did not feel well. Symptoms worsened last night and have persisted today but have improved some but basically have been in bed most of the day. Had not looked at this thread before so was a bit caught off guard, and have been trying to make sense of it.-
I had a similar experience to the second dose. Basically felt like the flu but completely resolved within 24 hours.
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Immediate reaction-distracted driving, from singing “Celebration” by Kool And The Gang.
And some resigned anger of how hospital chains in my county are sitting on vaccine doses and not distributing them to the public. Like a store in a mall, hospital execs have to monitor ‘foot-traffic’ coming through their doors, which translates to sales/money per square foot. Execs in these hospitals wont extract enough money from otherwise healthy people going through their campuses just to get a shot.
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Second dose made my arm more sore than the first. Never had a fever or chills but did have a poor nights sleep. Woke up a bit achy all over which resolved once I started moving around and took a couple ibuprofens. Feel fine his afternoon with arm pain going away
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It surprises me how many physicians (not just here) have been surprised by the side effects, particularly of shot #2.
It’s been all over the news and major discussion in our rad group as well as other docs in the hospital.
Clearly better messaging needs to get out there, it’s better to be fully informed and understand what is likely or possible to happen.-
After the first shot, I just felt tired and low-energy the day after the shot (along with arm soreness), then felt completely back to myself the day after.
After the second shot, I felt like I had a very mild case of the flu the day after the shot (malaise, very slight body chills, arm soreness), but then symptoms completely resolved the day after that.
If anything, the symptoms after the second shot were milder than I was expecting given the stories I’d heard.-
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Quote from Radsoxfan
It surprises me how many physicians (not just here) have been surprised by the side effects, particularly of shot #2.
It’s been all over the news and major discussion in our rad group as well as other docs in the hospital.
Clearly better messaging needs to get out there, it’s better to be fully informed and understand what is likely or possible to happen.
I may have not been paying close enough attention. The only thing I got (side effects may be worse), was when I received the 2nd dose. Still, I didn’t think that meant one may experience the flu for the next 24-72 hours. I guess “flu-like symptoms” to me meant intermittent, minor and shorter duration, not what I’ve experienced. What are the chances of coincidentally coming down with some other flu?-
Influenza is extremely rare this year, so that’s pretty unlikely though not impossible I suppose.
You could theoretically just be getting COVID, though protection looks pretty good by 2 weeks after the first dose assuming you get dose #2 on time.
Very good chance your “flu-like symptoms” are just vaccine related. I have heard about a lot of people having a rough time and feel like they have the flu for a couple days.
If you want to play it safe and things don’t improve soon could always get COVID test just to make sure.
Caveat:
***I am a radiologist and only sort of a real doctor***
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My parents (both mid 80s) got their this week. Pfizer.
No reaction. Neither even cited arm soreness.-
I think I read that side effects were less likely in older adults.
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2nd dose this past Saturday … little bit of sore arm … fatigued the next day .. good to go today
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Quote from Radsoxfan
Influenza is extremely rare this year, so that’s pretty unlikely though not impossible I suppose.
You could theoretically just be getting COVID, though protection looks pretty good by 2 weeks after the first dose assuming you get dose #2 on time.
Very good chance your “flu-like symptoms” are just vaccine related. I have heard about a lot of people having a rough time and feel like they have the flu for a couple days.
If you want to play it safe and things don’t improve soon could always get COVID test just to make sure.
Caveat:
***I am a radiologist and only sort of a real doctor***
Thanks for the info…based on my non-reaction to dose #1 and my significant reaction to dose #2, can I assume that it’s unlikely that I would have been non-symptomatic if I had contracted Covid previously?
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No.
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[b]Pfizer injection #1:[/b] Mild pain at injection site the next day.
[b]Pfizer injection #2:[/b] Onset of fatigue/brain fog beginning around 6 hrs post- injection. Next day – residual fatigue and mild myalgia, both dissipating by the evening.-
I have now received both doses and only had mild arm pain with both. Reading this makes me worry whether or not it will be effective. Is there anyone else out there like me that essentially had no symptoms with either dose?
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Had the same thing. Just arm pain for a day. Seems like the majority at my hospital just have arm pain. I only heard of 2 so far that had symptoms other than arm pain.
One of them had a previous COVID-19 infection so that may play a role too.-
Most people Ive talked to had minimal sxs. Some just arm pain both times.
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Quote from miller24
I have now received both doses and only had mild arm pain with both. Reading this makes me worry whether or not it will be effective. Is there anyone else out there like me that essentially had no symptoms with either dose?
Did you get symptoms with the hep b vaccine or MMR or polio?
I am no virologist but I don’t think symptoms after vaccination correlate with efficacy. -
Quote from miller24
I have now received both doses and only had mild arm pain with both. Reading this makes me worry whether or not it will be effective. Is there anyone else out there like me that essentially had no symptoms with either dose?
Both Pfizer doses just gave me moderate arm soreness, gone in less than 48 hours.-
I had moderate shoulder pain for a day after the first dose. After the second dose I had pretty severe fatigue the evening and day after. Very mild shoulder pain with second dose. No fevers for me, but some of the guys in my group said they were feverish the night after the second dose.
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1st Pfizer shot: Usual flu-shot type arm soreness for 2-3 days without any other problems.
2nd Pfizer shot: Received the shot at 5:30 pm. That evening, mild myalgias and feeling under the weather. By 10am the next morning, developed a fever up to 101.5, chills, worsening myalgias, and headache. One episode of nausea. That evening, fevers were a little better but developed a pretty bad headache. Only took 1 500 mg Tyelenol right before going to sleep that night and the next morning I felt much better, just tired from being sick. It was like having the flu for 1-2 days. It wasn’t too bad overall.-
2md shot little soreness nothing else, Pfizer
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