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To job applicants you need to talk and be personable
Just thought I’d put it out there, as it appears this is not obvious, and I feel bad that some strong applicants are hurt by this.
We are currently interviewing people and have come across applicants with great training, great letters, etc, only thing is that in an interview they don’t say anything unless they are asked. Sometimes it’s obvious they are nervous.
Even if the responses to questions are great, people generally like someone who smiles and makes small talk and shows they can make an effort to form a bond / develop rapport.
Asides from not seeming like a black box that’s hard to penetrate (and relatively cold compared to someone who smiles more and talks), being personable is helpful with clinicians, hospital administrators, and the occasional patient we radiologists deal with directly.
Just an FYI to those who need it. -
111 Replies
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And don’t be stingy with the hugs.
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Stares into space…….
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[:D]
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In keeping with the OP’s admonitions, I would encourage the following:
Put away your cell phone during the interview. Don’t bring it out. Don’t text while interviewing.
Although this may sound obvious, it’s not, as I have seen a candidate doing it. Although this may be perfectly acceptable in some circles, I would encourage against it during an interview. We didn’t offer the job to the candidate who did so (he was highly qualified, good recommendations, etc.), and he was devastated.
One other comment regarding recommendations:
We pay no attention to the letters written by the attendings at a residency / fellowship (unless you know them personally as above). All glow with BS. Rather try to contact a candidate’s colleagues during residency (i.e. co-residents) and the residency program coordinators. Here you get the skinny. Did they leave early? Did they stay late? Did they attend conferences? Etc.-
If a resident left early, what exactly does that tell you? Maybe they were a “list crusher”?
And if they stayed late regularly? Hard worker or “slow reader”?-
I would just like to add as a recently graduated fellow with very poor social skills. I landed a job along with a more seasoned radiologist with more wit and piz-zaz than I will ever have. He was on first name basis with ceo of the hospital week one. I average 150 studies a day, he averages 40-50 studies a day and takes about an 45 minute to an hour lunch. I eat at my station, usually a sandwich that I packed and a cookie with a three minute walk to the free coffee station. He has been warned twice within three month about his productivity. He probably will not make through the year. To all new fellows- if you interview at a job and they’re judging you based on how much “you smile” after 16 years of education and $300,000 grand in debt tell the old farts to go to hell, and take your expertise elsewhere!!!
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A 15 or 20 minute interview is not a good indicator of how people will act in the future. Similar to the interview attire which is usually different from what people wear on their day to day practice, people’s behavior may be more formal and more serious during the interview day.
I’m not talking about people who are weird or who behave awkward. I am talking about someone who may seem a little serious and less friendly during the 15 minute interview. After doing it for 10 years, I have found out that depending on people’s background they may act more serious or more friendly during their first encounter on interview day and this does not necessarily mean it is how they behave in their day to day practice.
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MR_CT:
Thanks, and I agree.Quote from Flounce
Totally agree.
Compared to the other parts of the application, I place very little weight on the interview because anyone should be able to fake it for a day, and I expect them to be able to put on a nice face for even longer than a day. I rely a lot more on word of mouth recommendations of people who have worked alongside the person for years.
The subject of my post was how applicants could easily improve the impression they make on interview day, not how an interviewer can best evaluate an applicant for long term fit/behavior. Despite how poor a predictor interview skills are of a future partner, the reality is that applicants will continue to be judged on their interview, and it is in their best interest to put their best foot forward like everyone else.
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It’s a fine line. I can’t wait for some people I know to shut up.
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Quote from icthrewu
I landed a job along with a more seasoned radiologist with more wit and piz-zaz than I will ever have. He was on first name basis with ceo of the hospital week one. I average 150 studies a day, he averages 40-50 studies a day and takes about an 45 minute to an hour lunch. I eat at my station, usually a sandwich that I packed and a cookie with a three minute walk to the free coffee station. He has been warned twice within three month about his productivity. He probably will not make through the year.
Ha, he’ll probably end up being chairman or CMO somewhere and make twice what you do for a third of the work, if he even touches a mic.
The abrasive/ awkward / pri$kly rad is obvious to everyone. The slow rad is usually only obvious to the other rads, who paper over the issue by working harder. Personally, I’d rather have a crusher. It’s ugly out there.
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Disagree.
Give me a smart, competent, and decisive radiologist who can crush a list with quality reports and is versatile – that’s my guy.
I don’t want the talker who is slow and makes frequent errors.
I work with residents at a “top” program and at least 70% of them fall into the latter category. I wouldn’t hire any of them.
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Quote from bascule32
Disagree.
Give me a smart, competent, and decisive radiologist who can crush a list with quality reports and is versatile – that’s my guy.
I don’t want the talker who is slow and makes frequent errors.
I work with residents at a “top” program and at least 70% of them fall into the latter category. I wouldn’t hire any of them.
+ a million. -
What you’re presenting is a false dichotomy.
Being smart, decisive, and hard working does not require one to be a robot that can’t smile or is socially awkward.
Similarly, being friendly and able to communicate well with others does not make a radiologist slow or error-prone.
They are entirely different skill sets.
Diligence and smarts are present in abundance in the medicine. Having trained at so-called top 3 programs for both med school and residency myself, it seems to me that the social/emotional IQ of the individuals who get to those place are well above average and contribute to their ability to move ahead in the world. Being technically strong is a given.
Whatever one’s opinion – and I accept that (though not understand why) some rads might prefer an applicant who doesn’t say much in an interview – I can report that every applicant we’ve chosen to interview over the past few weeks has had great CVs / letters / word of mouth recommendations, but the ones that were rated lower by many us were the ones who didn’t talk much, smile, or didn’t seem to try to socially connect with our group members, and that led to a less positive impression – call it a not-as-warm feeling – than the other applicants.
Which is the reason for my original post, i.e. these radiologists were clearly well-trained, high-achieving, and well-liked by those who wrote them letters. It is a shame that the reason they came up short might have easily improved if they simply made more of an effort to say something and be personable.-
I’m actually in agreement with you Flounce.
There’s a small kernel of truth to the stereotype of the “socially awkward” radiologist/pathologist.
It truly does boggle my mind how someone can go through the trouble of taking the day off to interview with you, and then can’t muster the energy to at least act enthusiastic.
I also think interviewing a skill many people take for granted. Most people think they can just “wing it” and don’t realize how their body language or monotone voice can come across. Or simply just have a few questions to ask to fill in the silence.
You’d think those skills would be honed by now, after having to interview for med school and residency previously.
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On the other side of the coin, it’s hard to generalize based on an interview day how someone will turn out as a colleague. Some people may come across like superstars on an interview day, super charismatic, great conversationalist, and turn out to not be a great worker. The narcissistic charmer doesn’t always want to work hard.
In the end it can be a crapshoot.-
Totally agree.
Compared to the other parts of the application, I place very little weight on the interview because anyone should be able to fake it for a day, and I expect them to be able to put on a nice face for even longer than a day. I rely a lot more on word of mouth recommendations of people who have worked alongside the person for years.
Furthermore, if that person who is giving the recommendation is someone who I or a member of our group has known for a longer period of time (e.g. we trained with them or under them), then we really trust their recommendation because they are likely more loyal to us than the person they are recommending and will lose credibility if they fail to disclose some weakness in the applicant.
But back to the original point, if someone is either unable or unwilling to make the effort to be personable and pleasant even for a single interview day, it is hard to consider them when there are other qualified applicants who are able to act more normal. Which, again, I find a shame because they have worked so hard to get where they are and taken the time off from work/fellowship to fly out and and visit us.
My purpose was not to talk smack about some job applicants, as I respect and was impressed with everyone who we interviewed. I just wanted to give a helpful reminder for those trainees who will be interviewing on how they can make a better impression by being a little more expressive on interview day.
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Trump would call these types “low, energy” and dispense with them (eg., see Jeb Bush). OK wrong forum but you get my point.
I think the subtext is that the socially “not awkward” highly qualified candidate will help elevate your radiology practice within the hospital body politic down the road.
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Remember, you will have to work with these guys for the next umpteen years. You might spend more time with them than with your own family. Make sure they mesh with the personality, ethics, flavor, whatever, of your group.
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Flounce is right –
“crushing lists” is a skill that you can’t determine from the interview. Also, the “list crushers” in our department – maybe not typical – but they are just jerks.
The real serious problems in the group emanate from those who are difficult people as a direct result of their difficult personalities. A couple of them I could tell from the interview were prickly, and I didn’t want them. Over-ruled.
I can tolerate average skilled radiologists, but if a supposed super star is pissing off admin, attendings, partners, and causing constant problems with regard to complaints about everything, then they have negated their productivity gains.
We had a guy few years back who was IR, and I guess pretty good, but kept getting into fights with referrings about who owned the patient. He would write orders on patients that contradicted the attendings wishes. I guess he had a career death wish.
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Hmm. The “***” above came from the word “p.r.i.c.k.l.y” odd, that
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Looking back over the years at those who I interviewed/hired the absolute worst pains in the arse were those who showed an early fixation with dollar signs
Worse yet the greedy spouse if the wife quizzed your wife about money at the interview….major red flag…..if we hired a female and her husband was asking about money early on
The greedy ones and particularly those with greedy spouses are the ones to avoid
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Dr S
Do you see a way around this ? Clearly money matters and while I believe it should not feature prominently during the first interview, a group clearly needs to be up front w the direction of income and what to expect going forward. I was lied to about income potential during my first PP job on the order of 20 percent (along with a multitude of other group issues)
I think it’s good to have some go getters when it comes to pursuing new business or seeing how to maximize profit (not at the back of quality , pt care , etc) in every group. -
My experience with a few individuals who were consumed with the money is …… They wanted a short term low buy in fair and equal practice…….. When they were starting out
But once they became partners, they didn’t want to share with the new guys…….. They wanted to increase the buy in and increase the years to partnership
I’m all for make money…….. But to fleece those you work with is not solo have or had the appetite for
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I have seen two recent examples where personable and warm radiologists who have sub optimal productivity (I have find them someone painful to work with as it is a 75%/25% split with me doing more of the work) received competitive job offers over those who are less warm and fuzzy, socially appropriate, and very productive. The quality of all of these radiologists reports are equal. I was amazed at the poor business sense or lack of due diligence by the hiring practices. I do not need warm and fuzzy colleagues but I do need colleagues that can get the work done so that I can do other things.
I also think it is completely appropriate to inquire about money. I can find a lot of more personally fulfilling ways to spend my time helping others for free. -
After 30+ years of doing this, the radiologists who have been problems for the group were almost always due to personality issues. Can’t think of one who caused real problems due to lack of imaging acumen. There have been a couple who simply couldn’t keep pace with a normal private practice setting and moved on eventually. They caused some headaches for the group, but nothing like the ones with problem personalities.
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JTG – have to say- I think you have erected some false dichotomies and straw men.
You can, in this day of excess candidates, have people who are good human beings and productive. My comment about the list crushers in our group was touched on by the other comments – our list crushers are, by and large, the ones who bought the biggest homes, have many kids in private schools, a second home in a resort town, and have very expensive hobbies. They are intensely focused on squeezing the last dime out of any situation. They provoke fights over money, and so on. They will not take 5 minutes to interact with you on a human level (“Your daughter was in the hospital. How is she doing?”) You can be both Human and Productive.
And of course it is appropriate to inquire about money. Who would ever take a job without knowing what you will be paid? That is not the issue. The issue is an inordinate focus on money, to the exclusion of quality medical practice.
and I agree with ARROW – the real problems are the ones with personality problems. -
“Diligence and smarts are present in abundance in the medicine. Having trained at so-called top 3 programs for both med school and residency myself, it seems to me that the social/emotional IQ of the individuals who get to those place are well above average and contribute to their ability to move ahead in the world.”
Haha
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I will gladly work with a “list crusher” any day of the week. There is nothing more painful then working with a “slow” coworker when the list is long and the STAT/ED cases keep piling up.
The vast majority of the “fast” coworkers I’ve worked with are very team oriented and have the mentality of covering each others backs in order to just getting $hit done.
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How can you tell if the radiologist is “fast” just from the interview? Can not…Need reliable sources or have to vet the rad during the work up period.
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Quote from Rad8tr
[b]There is nothing more painful then working with a “slow” coworker when the list is long and the STAT/ED cases keep piling up[/b]. The vast majority of the “fast” coworkers I’ve worked with are very team oriented and have the mentality of covering each others backs in order to just getting $hit done.
Truer words have never been spoken. Sharing your exploding list with a colleague who spends 25 minutes on a routine spine MRI pontificating whether he should call it a protrusion or extrusion. I had to deal with this for 3-4 months…before he left for a different job thank goodness. We were friends before and by week 3 we weren’t talking anymore. So glad that guy left. -
My point exactly.
Get the $hit done. Be accurate and available. Have a broad skill set. I could care less to make small talk about the weather, this is not a book club.
At my institution the graduating residents are mostly weak – reports rife with errors, grammatical mistakes, failure to compare to prior studies. I spend my days correcting their crap reports. When PP groups inquire about these residents for potential hire, the other faculty give them glowing recommendations. It is complete BS.
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Yup, many of the other attendings at my hospital do the same. Give glowing recommendations to all residents regardless. Really bothers me.
Quote from bascule32
My point exactly.
Get the $hit done. Be accurate and available. Have a broad skill set. I could care less to make small talk about the weather, this is not a book club.
At my institution the graduating residents are mostly weak – reports rife with errors, grammatical mistakes, failure to compare to prior studies. I spend my days correcting their crap reports. When PP groups inquire about these residents for potential hire, the other faculty give them glowing recommendations. It is complete BS.
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Because if you tell the truth out loud it suddenly makes your program look like sh*t which reflects badly on you.
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Quote from deadwing
Because if you tell the truth out loud it suddenly makes your program look like sh*t which reflects badly on you.
Or you could just be honest and say something like “On a scale of 1-10, based on the other residents I’ve trained over the years he’s a 3 or 4. Unfortunately most people say everyone’s a superstar. Which is why LORs are useless unless you know the reference personally. -
One of my favorite “recommendation” stories: where I did my first fellowship, the attendings would take the fellows out to dinner at the end of the year. Everyone socializes and says nice things about how great it’s been working with each other, etc. End the year on a happy note.
One of our attendings – academic, ex-military, straight to the point kind of guy – walked up to a graduating fellow at this dinner one year (not my year) and told him, “Don’t you ever say to anyone that I trained you.”
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Odd. I frankly tell ppl that the particular resident is weak or lacks work ethic. It does not reflect poorly on me Bc I can’t force someone to read, pay attention or be a good radiologist. I can inu provide advice and point out deficiencies.
So yes. I do give crappy recs to residents who deserve it.
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Quote from bascule32
At my institution the graduating residents are mostly weak – reports rife with errors, grammatical mistakes, failure to compare to prior studies. I spend my days correcting their crap reports. When PP groups inquire about these residents for potential hire, the other faculty give them glowing recommendations. It is complete BS.
Jeez…and who’s fault is that? If they are doing poorly, perhaps they need guidance. After all, isn’t that the purpose of a residency? Sorry bascule32, seems somehow like you are a nonparticipating commentator.
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This thread is entertaining, would make a funny snl type spoof on YouTube.
The abrupt list crusher, the long winded chatter, the passive aggressive one who can’t help ticking off the clinicians, the one who’s always late and disheveled, the stealth one who is very quiet, the one who likes to raise his voice when dictating a difficult case to show off, the politician who would rather be in a meeting than be at the workstation, the one with Asperger’s who doesn’t like change, the cowboy IR guy..
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Quote from IGotKids2Feed
This thread is entertaining, would make a funny snl type spoof on YouTube.
The abrupt list crusher, the long winded chatter, the passive aggressive one who can’t help ticking off the clinicians, the one who’s always late and disheveled, the stealth one who is very quiet, the one who likes to raise his voice when dictating a difficult case to show off, the politician who would rather be in a meeting than be at the workstation, the one with Asperger’s who doesn’t like change, the cowboy IR guy..
Only the 20% radiologists with a sense of humor would get the joke. -
Exactly! Residents are adult learners and obviously have to be self-motivated, but one can’t learn this profession just by self-study and reading books. That’s why we have residencies.
There are too many “volunteer” faculty out there who are happy to collect a bonus for teaching residents but think that the difficult parts of teaching and mentoring trainees are somehow someone else’s problem.
Quote from HuggyBear
Quote from bascule32
At my institution the graduating residents are mostly weak – reports rife with errors, grammatical mistakes, failure to compare to prior studies. I spend my days correcting their crap reports. When PP groups inquire about these residents for potential hire, the other faculty give them glowing recommendations. It is complete BS.
Jeez…and who’s fault is that? If they are doing poorly, perhaps they need guidance. After all, isn’t that the purpose of a residency? Sorry bascule32, seems somehow like you are a nonparticipating commentator.
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Have found old threads like this one helpful. Question, besides talking and being personable, any advice for full day interviews with a dinner? What questions to ask in which setting? I imagine dinner is mostly social in nature, do you expect business related questions to be asked at dinner? Is it perfectly acceptable to ask some of the same questions to different partners, i.e if you meet with 10 different partners in the day? I want to look for some consistency in answers but dont want them to think i was robotic about it, if they all discuss after. Thanks for any advice.
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Quote from InsertNormalChest
Have found old threads like this one helpful. Question, besides talking and being personable, any advice for full day interviews with a dinner? What questions to ask in which setting? I imagine dinner is mostly social in nature, do you expect business related questions to be asked at dinner? Is it perfectly acceptable to ask some of the same questions to different partners, i.e if you meet with 10 different partners in the day? I want to look for some consistency in answers but dont want them to think i was robotic about it, if they all discuss after. Thanks for any advice.
Dinner:
– yes, mostly social
– you may ask business-related questions if you wish, particularly if it’s to clarify something earlier in the interview day
– if possible, wait for one of the partners to ask a business-related question first. This way they are introducing business into a social setting, and you may follow their lead in the dance. This is the optimal way
Interview questions:
– you may ask the same questions to everyone. If it makes you feel comfortable, you can phrase the question as “what do you think about X?” The truth is people discuss the questions you asked in a very general sense if at all, and you can ask everyone the same questions and no one will care.
– Ask “what’s important to you in a colleague?”
Big advice
– Bring enthusiasm. Radiate positive energy.
– Do not try humor or sarcasm. Too easy to be taken the wrong way.
– Be positive, enthusiastic, happy. Smile. Be someone people wish to be around. -
^^ good stuff; great guidance.
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A few glasses of cab at dinner may loosen things up. Maybe some after dinner port? LOL
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Quote from drad123
A few glasses of cab at dinner may loosen things up. Maybe some after dinner port? LOL
Alcohol is a mine field in an interview situation. Have to know your audience, which is admittedly difficult in a typical interview situation.
If you know you can’t handle alcohol, then definitely stay away from it during the interview.
If no one else is having alcohol, you don’t want to be the outlier and order a double Scotch.
If alcohol seems appropriate (e.g. others are having it), limit yourself to one drink.
As for the financials, it really helps to have a wife who can work a room with grace and subtlety. My experience was that the partner’s wives were more than willing to volunteer surprisingly detailed financial information to my (now ex) wife way back when during the job hunting phase. It’s like women are wired that way with the whole provision and security thing. Obviously won’t work for a male partner of a female rad. I know, I know….. I’m an <expletive deleted>, part of the patriarchy and JUST DON”T GET IT. Guilty as charged but to metaphorically paraphrase Galileo at his church trial…. “But the world spins nonetheless.”
Don’t have a wife that can handle the above? Take a stroll through the doctor’s parking at the hospital and see what the local quacks and barbers are driving.
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Quote from Dr. Joseph Mama
Quote from drad123
A few glasses of cab at dinner may loosen things up. Maybe some after dinner port? LOL
Alcohol is a mine field in an interview situation. Have to know your audience, which is admittedly difficult in a typical interview situation.
If you know you can’t handle alcohol, then definitely stay away from it during the interview.
If no one else is having alcohol, you don’t want to be the outlier and order a double Scotch.
If alcohol seems appropriate (e.g. others are having it), limit yourself to one drink.
As for the financials, it really helps to have a wife who can work a room with grace and subtlety. My experience was that the partner’s wives were more than willing to volunteer surprisingly detailed financial information to my (now ex) wife way back when during the job hunting phase. It’s like women are wired that way with the whole provision and security thing. Obviously won’t work for a male partner of a female rad. I know, I know….. I’m an <expletive deleted>, part of the patriarchy and JUST DON”T GET IT. Guilty as charged but to metaphorically paraphrase Galileo at his church trial…. “But the world spins nonetheless.”
Don’t have a wife that can handle the above? Take a stroll through the doctor’s parking at the hospital and see what the local quacks and barbers are driving.
^^^ This is good.
Dinner etiquette:
– You may have ONE alcoholic drink, and you may order this AFTER one of the partners orders a drink or otherwise offers it. After your drink is done, tea, water, or soda.
– Let the group order whatever appetizers they wish. They will usually know what is good. Be enthusiastic about the choices and sample them.
– For the main entree, go with one of the specials that the waiter describes. This way you (1) avoid staring at the menu when you could be being social, (2) avoid having to think about whether what you’re ordering is too pricey or whatever, (3) demonstrating openness and an interest in the area since the specials are usually suited to local cuisine.
– This also gives you an easy conversation topic. For instance if the special is a type of local fish, then the fishermen in the group will start talking to you about their fishing hobby. Engage with this even if you know nothing about fishing. People love talking with people who are interested. Ask questions about how they got into the hobby. This is usually a good story.
– Dessert – less important, ok not to order. Can follow the group’s lead on this. Desserts are usually too big, and you can split this with your spouse.
– Send a followup email the next day thanking the group. Send a thank you to the practice manager or whoever set it up as well. -
Quote from Nickelresearcher
Big advice
– Bring enthusiasm. Radiate positive energy.
– Do not try humor or sarcasm. Too easy to be taken the wrong way.
– Be positive, enthusiastic, happy. Smile. Be someone people wish to be around.
Well, yes and no. Be careful not not put on a happy and cheerful act if that is not who you are. Doesn’t mean you should sit there like lump and not ask any questions (as it was noted in the now 6 year old OP), but there is nothing wrong with coming across as a serious focused individual if that happens to be your personality. It’s a job interview, not a tinder date. -
Quote from fw
Quote from Nickelresearcher
Big advice
– Bring enthusiasm. Radiate positive energy.
– Do not try humor or sarcasm. Too easy to be taken the wrong way.
– Be positive, enthusiastic, happy. Smile. Be someone people wish to be around.Well, yes and no. Be careful not not put on a happy and cheerful act if that is not who you are. Doesn’t mean you should sit there like lump and not ask any questions (as it was noted in the now 6 year old OP), but there is nothing wrong with coming across as a serious focused individual if that happens to be your personality. It’s a job interview, not a tinder date.
Haha, well now I want to hear more of your Tinder dating advice!
This is probably a philosophical difference, and that’s OK. The usual advice is “be yourself”; my recommendation is “be your best self”. One can be a bright and positive person while being serious and professional. -
I just want to remind all future applicants not to forget that you’re interviewing the group too – if the partners are also stiff, negative, unenthusiastic, uninterested, etc, take note and factor that into your decision if you get an offer. Obviously (or perhaps not), don’t let that be a reason to act the same way during the interview or dinner.
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At my interview dinner, the mood immediately changed to a much more relaxed tone when the CMO accidentally dropped the F-bomb casually during a joke. The table included rads, myself, CEO of hospital, two VPs, two boards members, wives… I took the job. The only job so far.
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Must be a small town / city? At none of my interviews did they invite CEO of the hospital.
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Or maybe they are simply friends with their hospital CEO, and your group is not.
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Quote from Flounce
Must be a small town / city? At none of my interviews did they invite CEO of the hospital.
It is a small town. CEO was involved since my wife also interviewed on the same day for a hospital job there. Along the way, the two VPs are gone. CEO, CMO and all the rads at the dinner are retired. One of the board member is now dead.
Just stating what happened to me on my interview. Gave zero buck about who was friend with who.
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I think the best way to hire to offer a “working interview”. Pay someone locums or above locums rates for two weeks to see if that person will work out on all the dimensions that matter like personality, productivity with little errors, and being willing to do things outset their narrowly defined fellowship training. Seems also low risk for everyone than the traditional hiring model.
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Quote from Gotham
I think the best way to hire to offer a “working interview”. Pay someone locums or above locums rates for two weeks to see if that person will work out on all the dimensions that matter like personality, productivity with little errors, and being willing to do things outset their narrowly defined fellowship training. Seems also low risk for everyone than the traditional hiring model.
Agree. Strongly encourage this when possible.
It works out great for fellows too, as those two weeks of locums pay are 6-10 months of fellow pay. -
I agree as well. I did this with two groups that interviewed me, i.e. per diem gigs during my fellowship.
One group had me sit next to one of their radiologists who was working. He’d listen to me dictating and stop me and say, “why are you saying that? Why don’t you just say blah blah blah.”
I’d say, “Because I’m not a jackass community radiologist at St. Elsewhere.”
Actually, I would not say that, I would say, “thanks, that’s a really good point. I appreciate the feedback, and I’m going to say exactly that…. (begins dictating) ‘there is 2.3cm lung nodule next to the hazy RML infiltrate, cannot exclude pneumonia, edema, and lung cancer., please correlate clinically.'”
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In 2021, having a personality in the hospital can get you in trouble.
One off color joke, off hand remark, or someone feeling “offended” for whatever reason can get you called down to HR. -
I think this is the point of an interview; to see if someone is able to talk like a normal person without saying offensive things for just 3-4 hours.
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Quote from Flounce
I think this is the point of an interview; to see if someone is able to talk like a normal person without saying offensive things for just 3-4 hours.
Exactly –
“Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt”
-Shakira -
Quote from Flounce
I agree as well. I did this with two groups that interviewed me, i.e. per diem gigs during my fellowship.
One group had me sit next to one of their radiologists who was working. He’d listen to me dictating and stop me and say, “why are you saying that? Why don’t you just say blah blah blah.”
I’d say, “Because I’m not a jackass community radiologist at St. Elsewhere.”
Actually, I would not say that, I would say, “thanks, that’s a really good point. I appreciate the feedback, and I’m going to say exactly that…. (begins dictating) ‘there is 2.3cm lung nodule next to the hazy RML infiltrate, cannot exclude pneumonia, edema, and lung cancer., please correlate clinically.'”
It would be really funny if that first response was picked up by voice recognition and forever signed into a report as a reminder to the rad of what you thought of him [:D]
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This thread makes me feel like I’m going to be fired any day now
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Quote from Flounce
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One group had me sit next to one of their radiologists who was working. He’d listen to me dictating and stop me and say, “why are you saying that? Why don’t you just say blah blah blah.”I’d say, “Because I’m not a jackass community radiologist at St. Elsewhere.”
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I actually did say that (well, something like that) during residency.
One attending would correct grammar, punctuation, phrasing in resident’s reports. We were going through reports once and he came across a sentence of mine, something like: “Vague opacity left lung base, without a definite nodule/mass identified.” He said: “Why did you join the opacity and mass in one sentence? They’re unrelated and need to be separated.” So he redid the phrasing the way he liked it, then asked me “See, doesn’t that look better?” To which I replied: “Well, Dr. <self important buffoon> the Russians have a saying that translates as ‘People always prefer a pretty lie to the ugly truth.’ so with that in mind, I think it looks wonderful.”
Felt good for about an afternoon, then didn’t feel so good when the residency program director called me into his office for a talk about my ‘attitude.’ Fortunately, I wasn’t the first resident to butt heads with Dr. <self important buffoon> so it ended up that I never worked with the jacka$$ again.
Learning experience for me though. Certainly not about phrasing, but about raising the activation energy required to get me to respond provocatively to asinine, capricious jerks, especially those higher up the institutional food chain than myself. Should’ve just kept my trap shut and nodded along, like everyone else.
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Quote from Dr. Joseph Mama
Learning experience for me though. Certainly not about phrasing, but about raising the activation energy required to get me to respond provocatively to asinine, capricious jerks, especially those higher up the institutional food chain than myself. Should’ve just kept my trap shut and nodded along, like everyone else.
I know what you are talking about. But if you want to keep this behavior, then you have to make yourself a zombie who doesn’t express his opinion at all and just keeps everything to himself. Keep it shut at workplace. Keep it shut at home. Keep is shut in front of old friends, etc. Then people will applaud you for having high EQ. lol. But we are not robots. We are human beings with emotions. At many times, it is very hard to keep it shut.
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I know what you are talking about. But if you want to keep this behavior, then you have to make yourself a zombie who doesn’t express his opinion at all and just keeps everything to himself. Keep it shut at workplace. Keep it shut at home. Keep is shut in front of old friends, etc. Then people will applaud you for having high EQ. lol. But we are not robots. We are human beings with emotions. At many times, it is very hard to keep it shut.
I get it.
The Tao; keep quiet.
Buthard.to..do.In particular, when in doubt, dont respond to stupidity or aggression.
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I keep it shut in real life, I save the provocative stuff for AuntMinnie. Isnt that why most of us are posting under pseudonyms?
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I bet it is not only auntminnie. Many people save provocative stuff for AuntMinnie/online postings and also for situations that don’t effect them.
I remember in residency we had an attending who used to be a jerk to all residents but took a lot of crap and kept it shut when it came to the chair of department, some politically strong attendings and off course his wife.
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Quote from Dr. Joseph Mama
“Well, Dr. <self important buffoon> the Russians have a saying that translates as ‘People always prefer a pretty lie to the ugly truth.’ so with that in mind, I think it looks wonderful.”
[:D][:D] I wish I were brave enough to say this to a select few attendings when I was in training!
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Responding to baffoons is more about our fragile ego than anything else. In general, just best to move on.
Occasionally I have had to confront such people while in leadership positions; so be it. But mostly, just ignore them. -
Responding to buffoons is more about our fragile ego than anything else. In general, just best to move on.
Occasionally I have had to confront such people while in leadership positions; so be it. But mostly, just ignore them. -
Quote from boomer
Responding to buffoons is more about our fragile ego than anything else. In general, just best to move on.
Occasionally I have had to confront such people while in leadership positions; so be it. But mostly, just ignore them.
Yes, exactly.
Smile, nod, and agree. On non-clinical matters of course; if someone is misinterpreting a finding, politely point it out.
If your partners took a quiz where they had to guess what your political views were after you’d practiced with them for 10 years, their answers should be either “no idea” or “same as me” for every Republican, Democrat, libertarian or Wiccan within the group.
Not coincidentally, if you accomplish this you will also likely be in a senior leadership position. -
If you want to get stuff done in the group, it helps to be able to corral all the grouchy and selfish radiologists the way a cowboy might corral cattle and get them to stay together as you cross the plain. You gotta stroke egos a bit and tolerate their beetching and make them understand and believe that even if you are a very different person than them, you care about them and are looking out for their best interest on some level. That your are magnanimous and not petty, and wont hold it against them that they used to dump on you when you were an associate or that one Sunday they kinda screwed you by taking that extra long dinner when it got busy. Or that you wont be tribal or cliquish, such that you would make a decision that favors the breast imagers because you are a breast imager or that favors the IRs because you are an IR, but that you try to do whats fair and best for the group as a whole regardless of how it benefits or hurts your own schedule as an individual radiologist. Its not so much about holding your tongue all the time, but more about being reasonable and level-headed when others are losing theirs, and not making them look bad when you have the opportunity to do so but covering their faults and making them look good. You build your emotional capital with all of them and then when you need their support for some initiative or vote they dont agree with or understand, and you say trust me on this, they will hopefully willing to go along with you.
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Flounce, you are talking about the politics of leadership; and well said.
But I think we are really talking about ignoring the rogue a$$hole.
As far as internal politics, thats a complicated subject. One of the young rads on the forum started quoting the limitations of bylaws regarding pp leadership; thats when you know a group has gone off the rails. Its about corralling and leading; its frustrating and at times painful. But thats the deal. Well described.
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As for some rogue a$$hole – let’s say a GI doc – who thinks he knows how to read MRCP better than you – is going off on something lame and it’s totally unfounded.
One approach is to just listen and let them talk and talk and pretend you are listening even after you get bored, like look at one eye then the other eye, and you can be thinking about what you’re going to be doing after work but still give the appearance like you are listening dispassionately, i.e. don’t look down at your watch or look restless. Nod once in a while if they say something that has an element of truth as if to say ‘yup yup I’m with you’, and if they say something abjectly stupid then tilt your head a bit and furrow your brow a bit and make the noise “hmmmm”. Just keep track of the most ridiculous and weakest thing they have said so far. At some point when they run out of steam, and they notice that you are still silent and listening, it’ll be your turn to speak and you can bring up the most ridiculous thing they said by saying, “Do you really think [whatever it was they said]? Does that sound reasonable to you? I don’t think many would find that reasonable.” Focus on overturning that point while seeming the guy who is very reasonable and appreciates others who will be reasonable. Whether they acknowledge the falseness of their statement or not, you can wrap it up by just saying, ” In any case [despite the fact that we’ve seen you are spewing stuff that isn’t really valid]…. I feel your frustration and [regurgitate one or two of his statements that contained something true], there’s no doubt about that, that bugs the hell out of me as well. Let me talk to X Y Z and see what we can do about that. But as far as [the main thrust of their nutty diatribe], I’m not sure there’s grounds for making any change but you know what, let me think about this a little more” and then send them on their way.
Most people just want to be listened to, and other people need another person to argue with them to fan the flames of their argument and when no such person is present, the embers of their fire kind of peters out and then when you reflect back to them the most ridiculous thing they’ve said, it’s like dousing water on those last embers and they might become kinda embarrassed by that and realize they went kinda overboard. -
It all comes down to ego.
When your ego becomes involved, it no longer is about the issue or process, and things devolve.
Solve the problem, help the patient, but dont make it about you. -
Quote from boomer
It all comes down to ego.
When your ego becomes involved, it no longer is about the issue or process, and things devolve.
Solve the problem, help the patient, but dont make it about you.
Exactly.What is described above by Flounce is the textbook Rational way of dealing with people. Much much much easier said that done.
We are emotional creatures. Studies after Studies have proven that human beings are more emotional than rational. It is very hard to control your emotion at times.
What if the same GI doctor keeps giving you crap everyday. Then he talks behind your back in the physician lounge and tells every other physician that Dr. Flounce is very incompetent. Then you go to tumor board, he shows up and he keeps saying the same BS. Then he goes to the hospital admin and claims that radiology department provides terrible service and etc. And even if you show him lots of evidence, still he keeps repeating the same BS.
At some point, you can not just nod and move on.You have to be lucky to not get involved with an uber stupid person in your personal life or at work place. Otherwise, it is a very hard task to deal with them.
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Quote from Hospital-Rad
Quote from boomer
It all comes down to ego.
When your ego becomes involved, it no longer is about the issue or process, and things devolve.
Solve the problem, help the patient, but dont make it about you.Exactly.
What is described above by Flounce is the textbook Rational way of dealing with people. Much much much easier said that done.
We are emotional creatures. Study after study has proven that human beings are more emotional than rational. It is very hard to control your emotion at times.
What if the same GI doctors keep giving you crap everyday. Then he talks behind your back in the physician lounge and tells every other physician that Dr. Flounce is very incompetent. Then you go to tumor board, he shows up and he keeps saying his the same BS. Then he goes to the hospital admin and claims that radiology department provides terrible service and etc. And even if you show him lot of evidence, still he keeps repeating the same BS.
At some point, you can not just nod and move on.You have to be lucky to not get involved with an uber stupid person in your personal life or at work place. Otherwise, it is a very hard task to deal with them.
You only get a certain amount of heartbeats. How much of your life do you really want to spend with squabbles with people who are not going to listen, change, or provide any value to your life?
Nod, smile, agree. Ghost negative or unproductive people. -
Quote from Flounce
If you want to get stuff done in the group, it helps to be able to corral all the grouchy and selfish radiologists the way a cowboy might corral cattle and get them to stay together as you cross the plain.
Cows are herd animals, they will cross the plain with just a bit of leadership and protection. Leading radiologists is more like having a mixed gaggle of cats, sloths and a few of those little yappy lap dogs.
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Quote from fw
Cows are herd animals, they will cross the plain with just a bit of leadership and protection. Leading radiologists is more like having a mixed gaggle of cats, sloths and a few of those little yappy lap dogs.
lol, true that.
The ratio of soft power to hard power of a radiology group leader varies from group to group, but it helps when you are the one who regularly makes adjustments to the work schedule and assigns rotations when someone calls out sick. The fear of getting on your sh*t list and winding up staffing the imaging center on Siberia Avenue more often, slinging barium in between diagnostic mammo cases with no good restaurants around for lunch is the equivalent of a cattle prod that is persuasive without ever being used. We hope to motivate primarily through cultivating their sense of personal and communal responsibility, but no one is immune to carrots and sticks and using carrots is better but the stick is always lurking in the background.
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The scheduler holds all the cards.
A bad one, whether it be self interest or cluelessness about the needs of a practice, can destroy a group.It needs to e transparent and inclusive process, or at least as much as possible.
It can be a thankless job. When done well, not noticed, when done poorly, infuriating. Like a referee.
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I like the term soft power vs hard power. If you dont occasionally use the latter; you will never be taken seriously.
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My paradigm is that hard power is best used like the screw of an ORIF across a syndesmosis: it provides the initial scaffolding and stability for your ligaments or scar to grow back – the equivalent of healthy group culture, personal responsibility, good citizenship and soft power – to develop and become robust.
In a functioning and healthy group dynamic, it is the latter that provides both the strongest support and flexibility for a group that optimizes performance.
Continuing with (and possibly straining) this orthopedic analogy, if you rely on that screw (your hard power) to hold together a syndesmosis or joint, yes it will hold in place, but the lack of flexibility results in two things: early arthritis in adjacent articulations (strained relationships) and ultimately failure of the screw.
Ideally, a healthy group has no need for hard power, the relationships are strong, natural, self-healing, and flexible.
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Quote from boomer
The scheduler holds all the cards.
A bad one, whether it be self interest or cluelessness about the needs of a practice, can destroy a group.It needs to e transparent and inclusive process, or at least as much as possible.
It can be a thankless job. When done well, not noticed, when done poorly, infuriating. Like a referee.
Buy a scheduling software program and the accompanying help sessions that the vendor provides. A couple thousand bucks.
They help you set up your schedule slots, vacation time, the rules for filling them, and the various other secondary rules (“Bob coaches soccer on Thursdays and thus can only work XYZ shift, etc.).
Engage everyone in the group on the rule-making process. Once everyone’s preferences are programmed, run the program.
The algorithm will create a schedule according to the rules the group created.
Once you’ve put in the work on the front end, you save an enormous amount of time because no one has to build a schedule. It’s just tweaking rules from there.
You have also made the process transparent. Everyone has input, access, and can view at any time the rules used to create the schedule.
Automate this thankless job and mitigate the associated politics and hard feelings regarding scheduling. This is some of the best money your group will ever spend.
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This sounds great! Manually scheduling rotations is absolutely one of the most thankless, time-consuming, and hotly political jobs in a group.
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Quote from Flounce
This sounds great! Manually scheduling rotations is absolutely one of the most thankless, time-consuming, and hotly political jobs in a group.
Do it!
We went from spending untold hours of work and frustration on scheduling to spending 1 hour a month on it. That hour is spent toggling seasonal preferences on and off (Bob’s soccer coaching season is over, can work anywhere on Thursdays), and updating the schedule for occasional shift trades.
It is a revelation. -
What’s the name of the software / brand?
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Quote from Flounce
What’s the name of the software / brand?
We use Qgenda. Good setup crew, robust software. Probably the most experiences with the widest variety of practices so highly likely to have dealt with and already solved whatever scheduling idiosyncrasies a particular group has.
[link]https://www.qgenda.com/[/link] -
Quote from Nickelresearcher
Quote from Flounce
What’s the name of the software / brand?
We use Qgenda. Good setup crew, robust software. Probably the most experiences with the widest variety of practices so highly likely to have dealt with and already solved whatever scheduling idiosyncrasies a particular group has.
[link=https://www.qgenda.com/]https://www.qgenda.com/[/link]
Qgenda is one of the best scheduling softwares out there. I have tried at least 4 different apps and nothing gets even close. -
The issue comes down to:
Who controls QGenda?
Who makes the rules?
Are the rules fair?If not set right at the foundation; it simply propagates a asymmetric schedule not necessarily in the interest of the whole, but for the few who set it up.
Again, transparency and inclusiveness.
If everyone is occasionally doing something they would rather not; its probably a good schedule. If some always get what they want; probably not.
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Quote from boomer
The issue comes down to:
Who controls QGenda?
Who makes the rules?
Are the rules fair?If not set right at the foundation; it simply propagates a asymmetric schedule not necessarily in the interest of the whole, but for the few who set it up.
Again, transparency and inclusiveness.
If everyone is occasionally doing something they would rather not; its probably a good schedule. If some always get what they want; probably not.
Yes. Important to involve everyone at setup.
Everyone should have viewing access to the rules implemented in the system.
It’s a great tool. It will cause a massive reduction in the man-hours required to create and update schedules. It can encourage group cohesiveness and a sense of fairness by allowing people to rapidly view, implement, and track schedule changes.
It’s not a magic wand that will cure jerks of being jerks. -
Is the 2K a yearly fee for qgenda?
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Quote from rayZor
Is the 2K a yearly fee for qgenda?
I believe that’s what we pay. Recommend you call or email them for pricing tiers. -
Quote from Flounce
I agree as well. I did this with two groups that interviewed me, i.e. per diem gigs during my fellowship.
One group had me sit next to one of their radiologists who was working. He’d listen to me dictating and stop me and say, “why are you saying that? Why don’t you just say blah blah blah.”
I’d say, “Because I’m not a jackass community radiologist at St. Elsewhere.”
Actually, I would not say that, I would say, “thanks, that’s a really good point. I appreciate the feedback, and I’m going to say exactly that…. (begins dictating) ‘there is 2.3cm lung nodule next to the hazy RML infiltrate, cannot exclude pneumonia, edema, and lung cancer., please correlate clinically.'”
Well well well.
If a group asks me to work for them as a per diem for 2 week and then hire me, that’s a different story. I will definitely accept it. It is a great way to hire a new person for both parties. The applicant will also get to know the group well.
But what you are describing is stupid. I’ve heard of a few groups that show cases to the applicants or ask them radiology questions during interview session. Daaaaaah. Crazy. Esp these days, if I go to an interview and the person asks me such questions, I will politely leave the interview and will never look back.
What do these groups think about themselves? Come on. Radiology is not rocket science. Anybody will average IQ and 5 years of training can generate a good report. Now if people are overwhelmed by work, burnt out or are under constant pressure to the point that they miss a tension pneumothorax, it does not have anything to do with their imaging skills.
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I agree with Flounce. There is a certain degree of nervousness to be expected, but if you are interviewing (for the most part anytime I interviewed it took most of the day and was followed by dinner with partners), you should at least be able to relate to people on some level. Of the people I have known who I would consider “list-crushers”, most were solid A-holes. They were competent, but no one liked them, they caused problems with admin and referring docs because of arrogance, etc. Now, there is a caveat here; what exactly constitutes a list-crusher? I am a fast reader and I hope accurate, but I don’t consider myself a list-crusher. I drink a shitload of coffee and frequently talk to techs, nurses, docs throughout the day. And I have time to post this BS too. I prefer to work with people who enjoy their work and relate to other docs and support staff well. I’m jaded by past experience, but I have no interest in working with a “list-crusher” for more than a day.
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Quote from dysdiadochokinesia
I prefer to work with people who enjoy their work and relate to other docs and support staff well.
Yes, my experience tells me that this is key. I want to work with colleagues who enjoy their work and have some baseline passion for continuously improving their knowledge and skills, not those who show up for their daily paycheck and work only to get all their fulfillment from life outside of work (and none from the work itself). I find work a lot more fun when I can geek out over a cool case or interesting finding with someone, not a jaded colleague who just shrugs and moves on to dictate the next case without a second thought. I like it when someone tells me a finding that I missed, because it’s a great opportunity to learn something new or add something to my search pattern.
Unfortunately, that kind of mindset seems to be less common than the show-up-for-a-paycheck mentality, at least out in community practice. I’ve moved on to another practice in a highly desirable location, and although I’ve had quite a few former colleagues ask me to give them a heads up if an opening appears, I already have a couple people in mind with that love-for-learning mindset that I’d like to recruit when we have an opening. -
Quote from qxrt
Unfortunately, that kind of mindset seems to be less common than the show-up-for-a-paycheck mentality, at least out in community practice. I’ve moved on to another practice in a highly desirable location, and although I’ve had quite a few former colleagues ask me to give them a heads up if an opening appears, I already have a couple people in mind with that love-for-learning mindset that I’d like to recruit when we have an opening.
I know what you are talking about.As I mentioned in another threat, I think there are lots of people in the field of radiology these days who chose the field either for the perceived salary/lifestyle or as a way to escape from the rest of medicine.
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It is sad to see that young physicians including radiologists constantly talk about FIRE even before finishing training as though the main goal of choosing the field was to make enough money and then retire at the age of 45.
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I totally agree.
I wonder if this speaks to a big-picture issue, the perspective that the only benefit one derives from a career is the dollars earned. -
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FI is a sound approach for everyone.
When I see talk about FIRE, I perceive the emphasis as being on the RE part of it, because the FI goes without saying. -
If the goal of FI is to have more options so you can get a job that fits your intellectual /academic interests better, serving the community better and improves your personal and family life by having better hours or living in the location that you want, then it is a great idea.
One of my co-residents was from a very wealthy family. He really didn’t need the money. He joined academics and has done a great job both on the research side and on the educational side.
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In what scenario is FI not a great idea?
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The following scenario:
My job is crappy. I dislike it. There is no reward in my job other than money. So I have to achieve FI to get out as soon as I can. -
Quote from Hospital-Rad
The following scenario:
My job is crappy. I dislike it. There is no reward in my job other than money. So I have to achieve FI to get out as soon as I can.+1 agree.
A rewarding career in medicine – I’m not talking about financial reward – is a major goal in and of itself. The fact that you happen to make a comfortable living while doing so is a separate and important goal. You can choose a job/practice setting where you reduce the stimulating and rewarding parts of the job in order to increase the monetary compensation, but at some point you are making yourself more miserable in order to get out faster and have abandoned the idea that a career should be rewarding on some level other than the paycheck you get. I feel like the FIRE mentality makes one view a career as something to hasten and get out of ASAP, rather than it being something meaningful and worth practicing for the sake of doing it, and worth tweaking in a way to make it more enjoyable or stimulating.
For me, chatting with the mammo techs, breast sonographers, the other radiologist who works down the hall, explaining things to patients, and doing procedures, is fairly enjoyable even when it is more hectic and more physically exhausting than reading 40 MRIs in a quiet room. I wouldn’t trade it for a job where I just sat in room and talked to myself nonstop, even if it made me more money. Same with the cross sectional studies: if I didn’t have the time to occasionally look up some article, or read up on some history in the EMR, or curbside some other radiologists while asking them how their vacation was… simply pumping out neg acute r/o PEs and trauma noncon heads would be deadening and would not be worth it to get to FI faster. -
I agree with all the things Flounce said above. In addition, even the most mundane and boring exam, r/o this and that, negative findings do add value to the clinicians and patients. We do answer their diagnostic questions better than most and will help pushing the working diagnosis in the right direction.
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I think we are interpreting things differently. FI and working at an unrewarding workplace are mutually exclusive. Having a shitty job to get FI is a different story, but that’s a qualifier independent to the concept of FI.
I enjoy Radiology and it is rewarding. I think it would be even more rewarding if I had to do less of it and at my discretion.
In terms of RE, I have no issue with it. In fact, it’s great if that’s what you want. We only have so many heartbeats on this planet and we have no idea when the last one will be. Optimizing time to do what you want is really the key.
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Quote from Dr.Sardonicus
Flounce is right –
“crushing lists” is a skill that you can’t determine from the interview. Also, the “list crushers” in our department – maybe not typical – but they are just jerks.
The real serious problems in the group emanate from those who are difficult people as a direct result of their difficult personalities. A couple of them I could tell from the interview were ****ly, and I didn’t want them. Over-ruled.
I can tolerate average skilled radiologists, but if a supposed super star is pissing off admin, attendings, partners, and causing constant problems with regard to complaints about everything, then they have negated their productivity gains.
We had a guy few years back who was IR, and I guess pretty good, but kept getting into fights with referrings about who owned the patient. He would write orders on patients that contradicted the attendings wishes. I guess he had a career death wish.
Another great comment. Having both academic experience and PP partner experience, I totally agree with the above!! Bad attitude negates all the aptitude!!
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I agree with these concepts in theory. It goes without saying that a well spoken and poised radiologist is the preferred representative of your group.
However after supervising residents at a very well known institution for the last few years, I can say that pedigree nowadays does not in any way correlate with job performance.
The residents I work with, at a well known top 20 program, read a low volume at a snails pace. The reports they generate are littered with errors, grammatical mistakes, failure to compare to prior studies, and other garbage – I spend most of my day correcting these reports. These same residents have very high USMLE scores, however I would not want any of them in my private practice.
Interestingly, when private practice groups call to inquire about these same residents for potential hire, the other faculty give glowing recommendations. It is complete BS.
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Quote from Flounce
Compared to the other parts of the application, I place very little weight on the interview …
Not disagreeing with this post (nor anyone elses for that matter; everyone’s entitled to their opinion) but I’ve noticed the opposite over the years, i.e. I place less and less emphasis on [i]objective [/i]factors (e.g. med school, residency, etc.) and more on [i]subjective [/i]factors (e.g. interview impression) when deciding to offer an applicant a position. More specifically, I’ve found that if my interview impression is positive, it’s almost a crap shoot (50/50) as to whether the prospect will work out but if my initial interview impression is negative it has NEVER worked out.
Have been doing this gig long enough that I’ve seen a multitude of styles, types, etc. The “list crusher” with the personality of a venomous tree frog. The “good ole boy” who takes 20 minutes to read out a routine CXR. And many others. Which is worse/more irritating? Take your pick.
Reminds me of back in the day when i was doing a psych clerkship and asked an attending about the nuances of the myriad personality disorders. She rolled her eyes and said “Look, there’s only two things you need to know about personality disorders: First, if someone pisses you off within the first 5 minutes of meeting them, they’ve almost assuredly got one. Second, patients with personality disorders NEVER get over them.”-
There are plenty of radiology residents out there who are quiet but affable, Smart but efficient, reliable but not a robot. If I was hiring I would be looking for someone for all these qualities.
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Quote from Flounce
Just thought I’d put it out there, as it appears this is not obvious, and I feel bad that some strong applicants are hurt by this.
We are currently interviewing people and have come across applicants with great training, great letters, etc, only thing is that in an interview they don’t say anything unless they are asked. Sometimes it’s obvious they are nervous.
Even if the responses to questions are great, people generally like someone who smiles and makes small talk and shows they can make an effort to form a bond / develop rapport.
Asides from not seeming like a black box that’s hard to penetrate (and relatively cold compared to someone who smiles more and talks), being personable is helpful with clinicians, hospital administrators, and the occasional patient we radiologists deal with directly.
Just an FYI to those who need it.
That’s a great advise Flounce! -
Quote from Flounce
Just thought I’d put it out there, as it appears this is not obvious, and I feel bad that some strong applicants are hurt by this.
We are currently interviewing people and have come across applicants with great training, great letters, etc, only thing is that in an interview they don’t say anything unless they are asked. Sometimes it’s obvious they are nervous.
Even if the responses to questions are great, people generally like someone who smiles and makes small talk and shows they can make an effort to form a bond / develop rapport.
Asides from not seeming like a black box that’s hard to penetrate (and relatively cold compared to someone who smiles more and talks), being personable is helpful with clinicians, hospital administrators, and the occasional patient we radiologists deal with directly.
Just an FYI to those who need it.
This post is more than 5 years old.
The first thing that come to my mind by reading this post is that the applicant was not interested in your group. They might have liked the group on paper but didn’t like it when saw your group in person.
Anyway, I won’t put too much weight on how extroverted an applicant is. Afterall it is radiology and not marketing managing of a fashion company.
