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The non-viability and fraud of the ‘electric car’
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Quote from RVU
[link=http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/charles-lane-obamas-electric-car-mistake/2013/02/11/441b39f6-7490-11e2-aa12-e6cf1d31106b_story.html]http://www.washingtonpost…6cf1d31106b_story.html[/link]
[link=http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/10/automobiles/stalled-on-the-ev-highway.html?ref=johnmbroder&_r=0]http://www.nytimes.com/20…f=johnmbroder&_r=0[/link]
[link=http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-01-10/politics/36272468_1_loan-program-energy-department-secretary-steven-chu]http://articles.washingto…t-secretary-steven-chu[/link]
[link=http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/08/a-detour-on-the-road-to-an-electric-future/?ref=johnmbroder]http://wheels.blogs.nytim…uture/?ref=johnmbroder[/link]
With the President blathering on tonight about the electric cars/green economy of the future, here are multiple sobering realistic articles about electric cars non-feasible future that have been in the liberal papers of record in the last few days. It states the obvious. The electric car fails to deliver and is quickly becoming a liberal/democrat-exclusively held delusion-that billions of tax dollars are being wasted on.
The electric car is not feasible under modern society circumstance and need. In the story, a 250 mile trip turned into a unsafe nightmare and was truncated several times for the person testing it. Whose bright or justifiable idea in government is to provide companies (with direct subsidies and buyer’s incentives) with billions in subsidies for a $100,000 car that cant go 100 miles!?
key quotes: “[i]American Physical Society symposium on battery research concluded last June: “…… all-electric vehicles will not replace the standard American family car in the foreseeable future.”[/i]
[i]I began following Teslas range-maximization guidelines, which meant dispensing with such battery-draining amenities as warming the cabin and keeping up with traffic. I turned the climate control to low the temperature was still in the 30s and planted myself in the far right lane with the cruise control set at 54 miles per hour (the speed limit is 65). Buicks and 18-wheelers flew past, [/i]…[i]..my feet were freezing and my knuckles were turning white……Car is shutting down, the computer informed me. My high-tech Model S test car ended up stranded off Interstate 95,… I was able to coast down an exit ramp in Branford, Conn., before the car made good on its threat.[/i]
WTF??!. Is this the 1920s model T without the ability to crank some more into it?! Why on earth would we be forced to regress on technology except in a open lie/ non-scientific fairytale liberals keep force feeding us to accept?
Etsell…begat the Pinto begat Yugo and now Tesla/Volt.
Why would anybody of reason support this waste of time? What strategic advantage does could it provide with all the resources in North America with enough fossil fuel in North America to last 150 years? There is no justification. Its the pure definition of a liberal boondoggle.
Stick Dr. Chu in one of them. Oh yeah, he doesnt drive. But he offers a lot of uninformed and worthless negative opinions about other people, families and just about everything else in a macroeconomy who needs to drive.
This didn’t age very well. At least in terms of people wanting to drive electric, in particular Tesla.
Are electric cars the savior for the environment? I doubt it. Still, it is nice owing and driving them. -
from my neck of the woods …
[link=https://www.cleveland.com/business/2022/06/ford-to-build-electric-vehicle-at-ohio-assembly-plant-in-lorain-county-invest-15-billion-in-plant.html?utm_campaign=clevelanddotcom_sf&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR0s_5jxIFPcO43iUQzucJlNOBu0uCHisS4_FaGtZRNiu5A4zdLk3aEtGdk]https://www.cleveland.com…aGtZRNiu5A4zdLk3aEtGdk[/link]
Ford to build electric vehicle at Ohio Assembly Plant in Lorain County, invest $1.5 billion in plant[/h1]The Ford Motor Co. announced on Thursday plans to build an all-electric vehicle at the Ohio Assembly Plant in Lorain County. The move would create 1,800 new union jobs, doubling the workforce at the plant, and comes with a $1.5 billion investment.
Kumar Galhotra, president of Ford Blue, said Ohio offered $200 million in incentives for Ford to make the investment, though Gov. Mike DeWine declined to provide specifics.
The news isnt entirely unexpected. In a contract with the UAW in 2019, Ford committed to bringing a new product to the Ohio Assembly Plant by 2023. At the time, [link=http://%24900%20million%20of%20investment%20and%20at%20least%201%2C500%20jobs%20to%20the%20ohio%20assembly%20plant/]Ford was promising $900 million of investment and at least 1,500 jobs.[/link]
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[link=https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a40543385/north-carolina-wants-remove-free-public-ev-chargers/]https://www.caranddriver….ee-public-ev-chargers/[/link]
North Carolina state legislators are demanding free gas pumps next to public EV chargers, or the chargers will be destroyed.
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There is a reason they are called the Party of Stupid!
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[link=https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/14/gm-evgo-and-pilot-company-to-build-network-of-us-highway-ev-chargers.html]General Motors will build a network of EV fast chargers at Pilot travel centers along U.S. highways
[/link]
[link=https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/GM]General Motors[/link] is building out a new network of EV fast chargers in partnership with Pilot Co., owner of the Pilot and Flying J highway travel centers, and EV charging network [link=https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/EVGO]EVgo[/link].
The companies will install a total of 2,000 fast chargers at 500 of Pilots locations along American highways at intervals of approximately 50 miles, they said Thursday. The partners expect to have a significant portion of those chargers installed and operating by the end of 2023.
…
The deal, which is expected to benefit from grants made available by the U.S. government, is part of a broader $750 million effort by GM to build out an accessible fast-charging network as it gears up to launch a series of new electric vehicles over the next few years.[/QUOTE]
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Solar baby, solar.
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Saw a Rivian coming down Tyler Blvd Tuesday. Didnt realize there were any floating around in the wild yet. It is a cool looking truck.
Im seeing more Hyundai Inoniq. I love the tail lights.
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Do large solar panels really only last 25 years? How toxic is the waste produced by dead solar panels? Why are some dead panels being classified as hazardous waste and other nearly exactly similar dead panels are not classified hazardous?
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Solar panels do not stop generating electricity & become dead after 20-30 years, they just generate less efficiently over time. Warranties can cover for 20 years.
Some panels contain cadmium & lead & as such are hazardous & should not be disposed of in landfills along with the detritus & jetsam of our disposable society.
Neither longevity or hazardous waste place solar as inferior to using fossil fuels in any way.
[link=https://news.energysage.com/how-long-do-solar-panels-last/]https://news.energysage.com/how-long-do-solar-panels-last/[/link]
[link=https://www.epa.gov/hw/end-life-solar-panels-regulations-and-management#Are%20Solar%20Panels%20Hazardous%20Waste?]https://www.epa.gov/hw/end-life-solar-panels-regulations-and-management[/link]
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[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/25/business/energy-department-gm-lg-battery-loan.html]Energy Department will lend G.M. and LG $2.5 billion to build battery factories.[/link]
New York TimesThe loan will help the automaker and its supplier build electric vehicle battery factories in Ohio, Tennessee and Michigan.
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this should be happening for every industry that we have shortage on. Anything we can make here lets go do it. and let people into the country that want to take the jobs. 0% interest government loan. Saw something about a make the chips here act.
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
this should be happening for every industry that we have shortage on. Anything we can make here lets go do it. and let people into the country that want to take the jobs. 0% interest government loan. Saw something about a make the chips here act.
on that topic …
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/07/24/chips-act-senate-vote/]https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/07/24/chips-act-senate-vote/[/link]Chips Act voted cleared 60 vote threshold in the Senate just this morning
After months of [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/06/22/chips-act-funding-congress/?itid=lk_inline_manual_5]debate and setbacks[/link], the legislation resembles the United States Innovation and Competition Act, the original form of the bill intended to boost U.S. competitiveness against China, which cleared the Senate last year but ran aground in the House.
Much of the $52 billion would go to chip manufacturers to incentivize construction of domestic factories to produce the components, which are [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/05/02/chip-semiconductor-shortage-impact/?itid=lk_inline_manual_10]the brains[/link] that power all modern electronics.The bill also includes about $100 billion in authorizations over five years for programs including expanding the National Science Foundations work and establishing regional technology hubs to support start-ups in areas of the country that havent traditionally drawn big funding for tech.
[/QUOTE]
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Ford Motor said Thursday that it has secured 100% of the battery supplies needed to deliver electric vehicles at a rate of 600,000 per year by the end of 2023.
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this is all you need to know about the US government.
“After months of [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/06/22/chips-act-funding-congress/?itid=lk_inline_manual_5]debate and setbacks[/link], the legislation resembles the United States Innovation and Competition Act, the original form of the bill intended to boost U.S. competitiveness against China, which cleared the Senate last year but ran aground in the House.”
This type of stuff should get worked out ASAP and pass with 100% of both houses. Make stuff in the US should not debatable after seeing the havoc from Covid supply chain issues. Get them the money, clear the hurdles and get construction rolling 24/7.
It’s like watching road work. Let take 120 days to complete something that should be done post haste. Why’s it take that long? We work from 7a-3p only.
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[link=https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-18/rivian-cancels-least-expensive-version-of-electric-pickup-truck?srnd=premium]Rivian Cancels Least-Expensive Version of Electric Pickup Truck[/link][/h3] It’s effectively raising the price of its entry-level model.
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[b]California to Ban Gas-Powered Cars[/b][/h1]
California is expected to put into effect on Thursday its sweeping plan to prohibit the sale of new gasoline-powered cars by 2035, a groundbreaking move that could have major effects on the effort to fight climate change and accelerate a global transition toward electric vehicles, the [link=https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/24/climate/california-gas-cars-emissions.html]New York Times[/link] reports.-
intrigue. I guess that’ll mean a lot of electric car infrastructure going in. Guess Elon gonna need to work on electric tow truck.
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[link=https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/10/28/electric-vehicles-fueling-station-gas-utilities-infrastructure-00063398]https://www.politico.com/…nfrastructure-00063398[/link]
[h2]Will Electric Vehicles Kill the Gas Station?[/h2] Theres a hidden battle between electric utilities and gas pump owners that is going to change everything about the way we fuel up.
Crucial to that future is a nationwide network of charging stations. Who controls those stations and the fuel coursing through them is the flash point of a fight between the electric utility and the convenience store. The outcome will impact where Americans charge their EVs and how much they pay.
As both gas stations and power companies hang their future on the electric vehicle, the fight has gotten ugly. In fact, heads have already rolled. One electric utility, Southern California Edison, forced the resignation of a key lobbyist in order to kneecap the gas station industry as Congress considered President Joe Bidens bipartisan infrastructure bill, which included $7.5 billion for electric-vehicle charging stations. The spigot of federal dollars only increased with the passage in August of the big federal climate-energy bill, stuffed with incentives to restructure the auto industry around EVs.
…The supply chain that underpins the gas station starting in the oil fields of Saudi Arabia or Texas and flowing through intermediaries to that big price on the sign becomes something else entirely in the EV age. What replaces it is a system of stupefying complexity. The price a station host pays for the new fuel is determined by which of Americas 3,000 electric utilities the plugs happen to be connected to. This pricing system is invisible to the driver but presents an existential dilemma for gas station owners. They find themselves at the mercy of an opaque, highly regulated and monopolistic electricity system that is the exact opposite of the one they have thrived on for decades.
[/QUOTE]
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Who moved my cheese? I think gas stations that want to continue th thrive will need to move twards installing some chargers, and then maybe eventually it’ll be all chargers. I kind of think over that period of time the charging and battery tech will change too. So I don’t think you can go full tilt on chargers.
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[link=https://www.axios.com/2022/11/02/solar-electric-car-suv?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_source=twitter]https://www.axios.com/202…amp;utm_source=twitter[/link]
[h1]Coming soon: A $25,000 solar-powered electric SUV[/h1]
Germanys Sono Motors, which went public on the Nasdaq last year, may have cracked the code with a $25,000 electric SUV called the Sion that’s covered pretty much bumper to bumper in solar cells.
Instead of a solar glass roof, the Sion’s 456 cells are integrated seamlessly into its plastic hood, fenders, sides, roof and rear panels.Together, they provide enough energy to extend the car’s 190-mile battery range by an average of 70 miles a week or up to 150 miles per week in perfect conditions.
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The title of this is appropriate, the non-viability & fraud of the electric car.
RVU was dead wrong as are many of these predictions about so many things relating to fossil fuels replacement by those who are pro-fossil fuel & anti environment. And yet the anti faction continues their opposition with gloom & doom.
[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/11/opinion/electric-vehicles-sales-growth-tesla.html]https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/11/opinion/electric-vehicles-sales-growth-tesla.html[/link]It is striking that in the same year that Teslas stock price dropped by about two-thirds, destroying more than $700 billion in market value, the global market for electric vehicles which for so long the company seemed almost to embody actually boomed.
Boom may not even adequately communicate what happened. Around the world, E.V. sales were projected to have grown 60 percent in 2022, according to a BloombergNEF report prepared ahead of the 2022 U.N. climate conference COP27, bringing total sales over 10 million. There are now almost 30 million electric vehicles on the road in total, up from just 10 million at the end of 2020. E.V. market share has also tripled since 2020.
The pandemic years can feel a bit like a vacuum, but there are almost three times as many E.V.s on the worlds roads now as there were when Covid vaccines were first approved, and what looked not that long ago like a climate pipe dream is now undeniably underway: a genuine transition away from fossil-fueled transportation. This week, the Biden administration [link=https://www.energy.gov/articles/biden-harris-administration-releases-first-ever-blueprint-decarbonize-americas]released[/link] a [link=https://www.energy.gov/sites/default/files/2023-01/Factsheet_TransportationDecarbBlueprint2023.pdf]blueprint[/link] toward a net zero transportation sector by 2050. Its an ambitious goal, especially for such a car-intoxicated culture as ours. But its also one that, thanks to trends elsewhere in the world, is beginning to seem more and more plausible, at least on the E.V. front.
Rapid growth also opens up a new landscape of challenges. We used to worry whether there would be sufficient demand for electric vehicles, particularly given their cost and range limitations. But demand already [link=https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/14/business/electric-car-sales.html]outstrips supply[/link], which, in addition to driving up the cost of E.V.s and creating manufacturing and delivery delays, has given rise to anxiety over the next roadblock: the empire of mineral extraction, refinement and production that has to be built to meet that. That obstacle may be in some ways smaller than it appears, as Hannah Ritchie, among others, [link=https://hannahritchie.substack.com/p/lithium-electric-vehicles]has emphasized[/link]: We are not yet mining enough lithium to meet demand, but its not exactly a scarce resource, and even Ritchies relatively conservative estimates suggest there is more than enough for a battery vehicle revolution.-
DETROIT (AP) The head of the National Transportation Safety Board expressed concern Wednesday about the safety risks that heavy electric vehicles pose if they collide with lighter vehicles.
Im concerned about the increased risk of severe injury and death for all road users from heavier curb weights and increasing size, power, and performance of vehicles on our roads, including electric vehicles, Homendy said in remarks prepared for the group.
The extra weight that EVs typically carry stems from the outsize mass of their batteries. To achieve 300 or more miles (480 or more kilometers) of range per charge from an EV, batteries have to weigh thousands of pounds.
she said she still worries about safety risks resulting from a proliferation of EVs on roads ands highways.
We have to be careful that we arent also creating unintended consequences: More death on our roads, she said. Safety, especially when it comes to new transportation policies and new technologies, cannot be overlooked.
Michael Brooks, executive director of the nonprofit Center for Auto Safety, said he, too, is concerned about the weight of EVs because buyers seem to be demanding a range of 300 or more miles per charge, requiring heavy batteries.
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That weight & size issue has been a concern for gas powered vehicles since forever. And yet big monster cars & trucks are not banned from the roads.
This is a non-issue red herring.
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there was a Tesla video showing the Cybrer Truck and how the exterior is indestructible. People aptly point out that you really want the car your in to crumple up and dissipate the force in an accident. Not sure how that safety design technique is applied in EVs.
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Theres some info that shows that even if everyone does their part say everyone recycles and gets and EV that it wont matter so much as most of the actual pollution is from large corporations/chemical plants. I have yet to see any solid evidence that saysif everyone gets an EV, X will change by year Xthats because it seems theres no real substantial research being done on thisthats the real fraud. Lets make a rule everyone has to have an EV then we ship our garbage to China, the eastern seaboard states ship their garbage and recyclables to more southern states on large barges-in some type of Circle of Garbage. Sorry, but theres a lot going on here that makes absolutely zero sense.
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Every bit helps. “Build it and they will come” has some merits. I people start thinking about not defecating in our nests they will be compelled to tell comapnies they must do the same. The argument that my part is so little as to be insignificant when those guys over there aren’t doing anything to help is the way to get nowhere & why America hasn’t done much as our excuse is that we’re waiting for China to be the leader.
Now really, suddenly America is waiting for China to be the leader? Unfortunately this has been the excuse for doing nothing for decades.
As the Exxon issue shows, the problem of anthropomorphic warming and polluting has been known for over 40 years now. I clearly recall Bush I, who knew the problem kicking the can down the road because “We need more study.” But what do you expect from an oil guy form Texas anyway other than to do nothing?
And regarding garbage and our throwaway economy, I’ve posted before that I used to earn spending change by returning bottles for recycling. Maybe kids and adults are above doing menial things like that again but why can’t we recycle?
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In this respect the if you build it they will come mentally is a seriously flawed gamble that may be responsible for major unforeseen damage and unexpected consequences.
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Actually, one of the biggest frauds of recent ages is called The Giving Pledge.
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[link=https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/redirect-to/?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.teslarati.com%2Fwyoming-phase-out-evs-2035%2F]Wyoming wants to phase out sales of EVs by 2035 to (teslarati.com)[/link]
The State of Wyoming is considering phasing out the sales of electric vehicles by 2035 to ensure the stability of its oil and gas industry. Senators Jim Anderson, Brian Boner, Ed Cooper, Dan Dockstader, Representatives Donald Burkhart, Jr, and Bill Henderson sponsored the bill SJ0004.
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Because I question things I am apparently George Bush.
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Ford cut the price on the Mach E Mustang. I actually think it’s a sharp looking car. Get in on the $7500 federal tax credit.
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Quote from Picasso01
Because I question things I am apparently George Bush.
As we know from the Exxon studies recently re-exposed & as I know from living at the time, George H W Bush knew the effects of fossil fuels back in 1990 and before as did Exxon before 1990. But it became political, so here we are today.
[link=https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/bush-had-a-lasting-impact-on-climate-and-air-policy/]https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/bush-had-a-lasting-impact-on-climate-and-air-policy/[/link]
[link=https://time.com/6169294/climate-change-politicized-in-1990s/]https://time.com/6169294/climate-change-politicized-in-1990s/[/link]
[link=https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/exxon-knew-about-climate-change-almost-40-years-ago/]https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/exxon-knew-about-climate-change-almost-40-years-ago/[/link]
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How about all those EV ads on Super Bowl?
GM & Jeep? Electric? Not even hybrid.
GO BRANDON!
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Yeah how about the image of the Hummer. Prices start at $108,000. The Jeep Grand Cherokee starts at $60k Every American should have no trouble buying it. Priced just right for the average family of four.
You are doing a heck of a job there Brandon. LOL
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Oh and the lowest price jeep wrangler ev starts at $54k and it is not what most families would even consider practical to haul everyone around, not to mention the reliability of jeep vehicles.
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1step at a time. Time was no one but the rich could afford gas cars, now almost everyone can get one.
& Elon even brought down his price substantially.
& considering Elons pricing before the reduction, I am very amazed how many unaffordable EV cars I see on the road.
Theyre almost the Chevy of my youth theyre so ubiquitous-
And there are the rebates from Brandons Anti Inflationary Act to help purchase one.
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Not really sure where your expectations came from that electric vehicles would hit the ground being cheap with all the kinks worked out
1. Pretty much a disruptive technology so there will be hiccups
2. The big 3 have invested billions to transform their fleets and designs to be pretty much all
Electric by 20353. They will go down in price fairly quickly
4. Battery technology will improve
5. Where I live they are ramping up charging stations
You can yappp and scream all you want but the electric vehicle is coming
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Republicans are so Fd up right now because of all the crazy people in their party that they dont know what to be mad about
Reminds me of the movie anchorman when Steve Carrells character just started yelling I am yelling and I dont know why
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Or
Like screaming about the slowness of dial-up internet in 1998 when 2 years earlier you didnt have it at all
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Dude in my neighborhood bought a Rivian R1S … good lookin’
[link=https://rivian.com/r1s] R1S[/h3] [/link]
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Ive seen a couple of the trucks around. I think they were facing a massive recall like all their cars.
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Quote from dergon
Dude in my neighborhood bought a Rivian R1S … good lookin’
[link=https://rivian.com/r1s] R1S [/link]
yeah, there are some very good looking EV’s out now (not Tesla, which are either boring or dated)
starting to begin thinking about replacing 10 year old car. Actually more and more preferring an EV for daily driving: no gas station stops. Like the acceleration.
But, at this point (no longer commuting) about 30% of miles driven are trips > 300 miles. I do not want the hassle of an EV for those. One option I’ve seen is one partner has EV, other has gas vehicle for longer trips. That won’t work for us. So my options are ICE alone, or ICE + EV. Not sure getting an EV as a second car makes sense environmentally (probably a small hybrid makes the most sense for me environmentally), and definitely does not make sense financially.
So, will probably sit on the fence a while longer and see how the charging infrastructure/battery technology shakes out over the next 5 years.
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There’s still better prices to be had. $38,995 gets a VW ID4 which looks nice. Looks like it would handle a family. Has some utility. Plus you get a $7500 tax credit which moves it down to closer to $30k. IMO that’s a reasonable car price at this point in time.
We’re moving into a different stratosphere of car prices. Trucks are luxury items, a lot of SUV prices are getting up there. JGC is a luxury brand.
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I actually think the Hyundai Inoniq5 and the VW ID.4 are both nice looking vehicles. I dig the retro video game kind of look on the Hyundai. Lucid is really nice looking but they appear to be going through some troubles too. Some big company should snap them up and right the ship.
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Ive been really happy with my 2020 Highlander hybrid. Doesnt do as well on gas in the winter but Ive still gotten some pretty huge mpgs out of it. Its comfortable, drives nice, reliable, safe, has a lot of nice features, holds value, cheap to operate/maintain.
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Toyota has an electric now. Im surprised Ive not seen commercials for it. I was getting maintenance done and walked through the showroom. Every car in there was marked up from msrp. Its a BZ4X or something like that.
[link]https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna78377[/link]
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The Biden administration will propose strict new automobile pollution limits this week that would require at least 54% of new vehicles sold in the U.S. to be electric by 2030 and as many as two of every three by 2032, according to industry and environmental officials briefed on the plan.
[link=https://apnews.com/article/biden-electric-vehicles-epa-tailpipe-emissions-31bf8104f44d81b988249483f1a79117]https://apnews.com/articl…4d81b988249483f1a79117[/link]
They can probably make a difference too if they just made a move to 89 octane. Burns better, manufactures can then design motors for it, production moves to 89 making it cheaper.-
why not just say total environmental impact of vehicles has to be less than X? (that’s soup to nuts, including manufacturing)
then let people decide which option works best for them. Might be a small-mid plug in hybrid. If you want a lot of power, might need to be full EV. If industry can develop clean fuels (the Germans are working on it) and those are environmentally equivalent to EV (again, soup to nuts), maybe those.-
I wonder what politicians own stock or have financial interest in EVs, their batteries, their chips, their making etcmight be interesting to see.
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Quote from BHE
why not just say total environmental impact of vehicles has to be less than X? (that’s soup to nuts, including manufacturing)
then let people decide which option works best for them. Might be a small-mid plug in hybrid. If you want a lot of power, might need to be full EV. If industry can develop clean fuels (the Germans are working on it) and those are environmentally equivalent to EV (again, soup to nuts), maybe those.
Yeah. There has been some push towards TLE/ LAC (Total Lifecycle Emissions and Life Cycle Assessment ) as a measure of net environmental impact.
It would be a great standard to have.
But overall it’s pretty clear that ICE worse than hybrid worse than EV for total environmental impact. The hydrocarbon emissions pretty quickly trump everything else ( digging up metals, production, disposal/recycling)-
yeah, what I’ve read is that ICE always the worst, but hybrids can equal or even be slightly superior to pure EV depending on how power is generated locally (and driving patterns, so how much time on gas vs battery, etc)
Not sure how it works out for a small hybrid vs a much larger and heavier EV. My guess would be that a small hybrid might do better than a 5,000 lb EV (like some Teslas).
That’s why I’m saying the math might work out to: you want a big, powerful car? that has to be EV. You’re fine with a small less powerful car but want to save money and not worry about range/charging? Maybe something like a Prius will work fine. -
EVs are cheaper & better for the environment both in short-term and long, exp long.
[link=https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/are-electric-vehicles-definitely-better-climate-gas-powered-cars]https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/are-electric-vehicles-definitely-better-climate-gas-powered-cars[/link]
And while internal combustion engines are getting more efficient, EVs are poised to become greener by leaps and bounds as more countries add more clean energy to their mix. MITs report sees gasoline cars dropping from more than 350 grams of CO2 per mile to around 225 grams by the year 2050. In that same span, however, battery EVs could drop to around 125 grams, and perhaps even down to 50 grams if the price of [link=https://climate.mit.edu/explainers/renewable-energy]renewable energy[/link] were to drop significantly.
Once we decarbonize the electric gridonce we get more and more clean sources to the gridthe comparison is getting better and better, Paltsev says.
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[link=https://www.treehugger.com/electric-vs-plug-in-hybrid-5197746]https://www.treehugger.com/electric-vs-plug-in-hybrid-5197746[/link]
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A 2020 study from the International Council on Clean Transportation (ICCT) found that the majority of miles driven in a PHEV are extra-urban driving, where the gasoline engine is used. Moreover, the same study found that PHEV owners do not charge their vehicles often enough to take advantage of their greater fuel efficiency. As a result, in real-world driving, PHEVs’ electric motors are used for only half the expected amount of time. Their CO2 emissions are thus two to four times higher than regulations allow.
The design intention of most plug-in hybrids is to last about 200,000 miles or 15 years. The design intention of most EVs is to last up to 500,000 miles and/or 20-plus years.-
I kind of wish I had a PHEV and could plug in at work. We have some spots that have chargers in the garage. Drive to work and charge, drive home charge. I could likely go all electric for to and from work. I thought about trading in my ’20 highlander Hybrid on a Prius Prime. They’re hard to get, and they’re marked up over MSRP. Also I’m on the list for a new puppy pending fall breeding. So the highlander stays for now.
On the Yota the powertrain and battery are warrantied to 150k miles. So it’s designed to last a good long time.-
Quote from DICOM_Dan
I kind of wish I had a PHEV and could plug in at work. We have some spots that have chargers in the garage. Drive to work and charge, drive home charge. I could likely go all electric for to and from work. I thought about trading in my ’20 highlander Hybrid on a Prius Prime. They’re hard to get, and they’re marked up over MSRP. Also I’m on the list for a new puppy pending fall breeding. So the highlander stays for now.
On the Yota the powertrain and battery are warrantied to 150k miles. So it’s designed to last a good long time.
yeah, I really like the Prius Prime.-
the new Prius model is sharp.
I saw my first Lucid Air in the wild when I driving home yesterday. I don’t think it looked as good to me in person as the photos as I’ve seen. Still a relatively good looking car. Also the color the person bought was not great. It was painted Grandma’s 1987 Oldmobile Cutlass Maroon with a silver roof. Woof.-
[link=https://www.axios.com/local/san-francisco/2023/04/07/evs-tesla-dominate-san-francisco-market-brand-choices-expand]https://www.axios.com/loc…t-brand-choices-expand[/link]
[h1]EVs dominate San Francisco market as choices expand[/h1]
[link=https://www.axios.com/energy-environment/electric-vehicles]Electric vehicles (EVs)[/link] accounted for 32.9% of monthly new vehicle registrations in the San Francisco metro[b] [/b]area in January 2023 up from 26.7% in January 2022.Nationally, EVs accounted for 7% of new vehicle registrations in January, up from 4.1% in January 2022. Options are also expanding.
Nationally, Tesla’s market share continues to shrink from 72% in January 2022 to 54% this year as competitors roll out new models. Despite [link=https://www.axios.com/2023/01/16/tesla-price-cuts-elon-musk]cutting prices in January[/link], that share will likely slide below 50% in the next month or two, Tom Libby, associate director of industry analysis at S&P Global Mobility, told Axios.
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[link=https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20230525005863/en/Ford-EV-Customers-To-Gain-Access-to-12000-Tesla-Superchargers-Company-to-add-North-American-Charging-Standard-Port-in-Future-EVs] [b]Ford EV Customers To Gain Access to 12000 Tesla Superchargers; Company to add North American Charging [/b]
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[*]Starting early next year, Ford EV customers will have access to more than 12,000 Tesla Superchargers across the U.S. and Canada, in addition to the over 10,000 DC fast-chargers that are already part of the BlueOval Charge Network. This will give Ford EV customers unprecedented access to fast-charging [/ul] [*]Mustang Mach-E, F-150 Lightning and E-Transit customers will be able to access the Superchargers via an adapter and software integration along with activation and payment via FordPass or Ford Pro Intelligence [/ul] [*]In 2025, Ford will offer next-generation electric vehicles with the North American Charging Standard (NACS) connector built-in, eliminating the need for an adapter to access Tesla Superchargers [/ul] [*]The reliable Tesla Supercharger network has already established charging corridors across the U.S. and Canada [/ul]-
[b]Tesla offers China-made electric vehicles for sale in Canada[/b]
[link=https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-offers-china-made-electric-vehicles-sale-canada-2023-05-23/]https://www.reuters.com/b…ale-canada-2023-05-23/[/link]
After the Reuters report was published, Tesla CEO Elon Musk, in a Twitter post, had said False, without elaborating.
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mrs_dergon had a corporate dinner with a rich owner the other night … guy collects cars and has 3 EVs.
ranked in order from least to most favorite:
Tesla –> Rivian –> Ford F150 lighting
(he loves his Ford EV)
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I mean the Tesla truck looks like they didnt consult any actual truck drivers.
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Charging while driving.
[link=https://www.extremetech.com/cars/sweden-to-unveil-ev-charging-road-in-2025]https://www.extremetech.com/cars/sweden-to-unveil-ev-charging-road-in-2025[/link]To make electric vehicle ownership easier, Sweden is building a road that charges [link=https://www.extremetech.com/cars/are-electric-vehicles-better-or-worse-for-the-environment]EVs[/link]on the go. The electrified road, also known as an e-motorway, is the first in the world to power personal vehicles that drive along the roads surface.
The road will stretch 21 kilometers (13 miles) along European route E20 between the cities of Hallsberg and Örebro. This location was selected because its a popular motorway for drivers passing between Stockholm, Gothenburg, and MalmöSwedens three most populated cities. Rather than depending entirely on conventional plug-in EV chargers, EV drivers can passively charge their vehicles while commuting as early as 2025.
Trafikverket, Swedens transportation office, is still figuring out whether it wants the road to use a conductive or inductive charging system. While a conductive charging system would use a built-in plate to wirelessly charge cars overhead (kind of like your wireless smartphone charger), an inductive system would use underground cables to send electricity to pickup coils within each car. Neither option would negatively impact gas-powered vehicles that drive the same road.
There are signs, however. [b]In 2013, we [link=https://www.extremetech.com/cars/163171-worlds-first-road-powered-electric-vehicle-network-switches-on-in-south-korea]shared[/link] that South Korea had unveiled the worlds first-ever EV-charging road. While the 24-kilometer (15-mile) stretch is explicitly reserved for the city of Gumis public buses, the project served as a proof-of-concept for other electrified roads.[/b] Indianas Department of Transportation is also looking to install a [link=https://engineering.purdue.edu/CE/AboutUs/News/Transportation_Features/indot-purdue-to-develop-wireless-electric-vehicle-charging-solution-for-highway-infrastructure]similar system[/link] in the US, where a quarter-mile test bed will power heavy trucks. Success in that small area will ideally pave the way for further electrification, though [link=https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/29/technology/electric-cars-magnetic-roads.html]regulatory hurdles[/link] abound.-
1,000 mile trips without stopping to recharge?
[link=https://www.wsj.com/articles/ultralong-range-electric-cars-are-arriving-say-goodbye-to-charging-stops-a5cf4390?mod=hp_lead_pos7]https://www.wsj.com/articles/ultralong-range-electric-cars-are-arriving-say-goodbye-to-charging-stops-a5cf4390[/link]In a [link=https://www.wsj.com/market-data/quotes/LCID]Lucid[/link] Air Grand Touring, I was able to go from New York City to Montreal and back while only charging overnight. Because my itinerary allowed it, I was able to do so on the kind of slower, widely-available chargers that are increasingly plentiful in the U.S., and seemingly ubiquitous in EV-obsessed Canada.
A road trip with this itinerary, and no daytime stops to charge, would have been impossible before last year. Thats when a new class of ultralong-range EVs debuted, including the [link=https://www.wsj.com/market-data/quotes/TSLA]Tesla[/link] Model S Long Range, which reached an Environmental Protection Agency-estimated range of 405 miles, and the Lucid Air Dream Edition, with an EPA range of 520 miles (the model I drove is rated at 516 miles). For perspective, even an efficient conventional auto like the Honda Civic has an EPA estimated city/highway combined range of about 450 miles on a tank of gas.
For now, this kind of charging stop-free road trip is solely the privilege of those able to pay for iteven the less expensive long-range Tesla starts at around $89,000.
Part of the reason it can achieve such extreme range is that its entire electric powertrain is so efficientsignificantly more than rivals like, say, the [link=https://www.wsj.com/market-data/quotes/POAHY]Porsche[/link] Taycan.
A spokesperson for Porsche says the Taycan is engineered for a compelling driving experience, as opposed to extreme efficiency.
The other key is aerodynamics. One of the biggest thieves of efficiency in any vehicle is aerodynamic drag, says James Hawkins, senior director of engineering at Lucid. The Lucid Air Grand Touring is the most aerodynamic vehicle you can buy, edging out the Mercedes EQS, which only has a 350 mile range, compared with more than 500 miles on my Lucid, according to the manufacturers and the EPA.
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[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/08/business/energy-environment/norway-electric-vehicles.html]https://www.nytimes.com/2…electric-vehicles.html[/link]
About 80 percent of new cars sold in Norway are battery-powered. As a result, the air is cleaner, the streets are quieter and the grid hasnt collapsed.
The country will end the sales of internal combustion engine cars in 2025.
Norways experience suggests that electric vehicles bring benefits without the dire consequences predicted by some critics. There are problems, of course, including unreliable chargers and long waits during periods of high demand. Auto dealers and retailers have had to adapt. The switch has reordered the auto industry, making Tesla the best-selling brand and marginalizing established carmakers like Renault and Fiat.
But the air in Oslo, Norways capital, is measurably cleaner. The city is also quieter as noisier gasoline and diesel vehicles are scrapped. Oslos greenhouse gas emissions have fallen 30 percent since 2009, yet there has not been mass unemployment among gas station workers and the electrical grid has not collapsed.
Some lawmakers and corporate executives portray the fight against climate change as requiring grim sacrifice. With E.V.s, its not like that, said Christina Bu, secretary general of the Norwegian E.V. Association, which represents owners. Its actually something that people embrace.
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[link=https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/02/cars/volkswagen-id-buzz-vw-bus/index.html] Volkswagen reboots its groovy 60s-era VW Bus. This time its faster, roomier and electric
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VW is fast becoming the leader in the “which EV will I chose to replace my Tesla?” game I am playing in my head right now. So far I have not made a decision and the Tesla is long gone.
Ford jumped up a notch with the charging station announcement. -
And VW is planning to re-introduce the Scout and this time as an EV vehicle.
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VW was my first car. Might well be my last car.
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The retro-mod looks are cool. I dig the Ioniq. Also the VW bud is cool. Honda One is cool.
[link=https://global.honda/innovation/design/topics/TMS2017/Honda-Urban-EV-Concept.html]https://global.honda/inno…-Urban-EV-Concept.html[/link]
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