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The non-viability and fraud of the ‘electric car’
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[b]Biden to Announce Electric Vehicle Charging Network[/b]
The Biden administration is set to release a federal strategy Monday to implement an ambitious plan to build 500,000 charging stations for electric vehicles across the country and ultimately transform the U.S. auto industry, the [link=https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-technology-business-electric-vehicles-ee21590eee61025fa149549b61e19433]AP[/link] reports.
Buttigieg pitching EV conversion as a major benefit for rural Americans, who tend to consume more gas b/c of long distances and need for/preference for trucks. -
Quote from RVU
[link=http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/charles-lane-obamas-electric-car-mistake/2013/02/11/441b39f6-7490-11e2-aa12-e6cf1d31106b_story.html]http://www.washingtonpost…6cf1d31106b_story.html[/link]
[link=http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/10/automobiles/stalled-on-the-ev-highway.html?ref=johnmbroder&_r=0]http://www.nytimes.com/20…f=johnmbroder&_r=0[/link]
[link=http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-01-10/politics/36272468_1_loan-program-energy-department-secretary-steven-chu]http://articles.washingto…t-secretary-steven-chu[/link]
[link=http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/08/a-detour-on-the-road-to-an-electric-future/?ref=johnmbroder]http://wheels.blogs.nytim…uture/?ref=johnmbroder[/link]
With the President blathering on tonight about the electric cars/green economy of the future, here are multiple sobering realistic articles about electric cars non-feasible future that have been in the liberal papers of record in the last few days. It states the obvious. The electric car fails to deliver and is quickly becoming a liberal/democrat-exclusively held delusion-that billions of tax dollars are being wasted on.
The electric car is not feasible under modern society circumstance and need. In the story, a 250 mile trip turned into a unsafe nightmare and was truncated several times for the person testing it. Whose bright or justifiable idea in government is to provide companies (with direct subsidies and buyer’s incentives) with billions in subsidies for a $100,000 car that cant go 100 miles!?
key quotes: “[i]American Physical Society symposium on battery research concluded last June: “…… all-electric vehicles will not replace the standard American family car in the foreseeable future.”[/i]
[i]I began following Teslas range-maximization guidelines, which meant dispensing with such battery-draining amenities as warming the cabin and keeping up with traffic. I turned the climate control to low the temperature was still in the 30s and planted myself in the far right lane with the cruise control set at 54 miles per hour (the speed limit is 65). Buicks and 18-wheelers flew past, [/i]…[i]..my feet were freezing and my knuckles were turning white……Car is shutting down, the computer informed me. My high-tech Model S test car ended up stranded off Interstate 95,… I was able to coast down an exit ramp in Branford, Conn., before the car made good on its threat.[/i]
WTF??!. Is this the 1920s model T without the ability to crank some more into it?! Why on earth would we be forced to regress on technology except in a open lie/ non-scientific fairytale liberals keep force feeding us to accept?
Etsell…begat the Pinto begat Yugo and now Tesla/Volt.
Why would anybody of reason support this waste of time? What strategic advantage does could it provide with all the resources in North America with enough fossil fuel in North America to last 150 years? There is no justification. Its the pure definition of a liberal boondoggle.
Stick Dr. Chu in one of them. Oh yeah, he doesnt drive. But he offers a lot of uninformed and worthless negative opinions about other people, families and just about everything else in a macroeconomy who needs to drive.
This was so well researched and written it should get a bump.-
Its also nearly a decade old
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Quote from dergon
Its also nearly a decade old
And the anti-arguments are still the same despite seeing more and more Teslas on the road. They seem to be getting as ubiquitous as Hondas around here.
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Quote from Frumious
Quote from dergon
Its also nearly a decade old
And the anti-arguments are still the same despite seeing more and more Teslas on the road. They seem to be getting as ubiquitous as Hondas around here.
That was the point. Just shows how difficult it is to predict the future. I highly doubted the capabilities of Tesla back then. Now I own two of them and they are great…-
Quote from Thread Killer
Quote from Frumious
Quote from dergon
Its also nearly a decade old
And the anti-arguments are still the same despite seeing more and more Teslas on the road. They seem to be getting as ubiquitous as Hondas around here.
That was the point. Just shows how difficult it is to predict the future. I highly doubted the capabilities of Tesla back then. Now I own two of them and they are great…
The take-home lesson though is how universally and totally wrong the fear-monger nay-sayers have been all this time. The economy ruined into bankruptcy due to alternative energy and electric cars? That’s fear-mongering on an extremist level. We’re still here, the economy is growing with new alternate energy jobs that’s increasing daily to everyone’s benefit.
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Quote from Frumious
Quote from Thread Killer
Quote from Frumious
Quote from dergon
Its also nearly a decade old
And the anti-arguments are still the same despite seeing more and more Teslas on the road. They seem to be getting as ubiquitous as Hondas around here.
That was the point. Just shows how difficult it is to predict the future. I highly doubted the capabilities of Tesla back then. Now I own two of them and they are great…
The take-home lesson though is how universally and totally wrong the fear-monger nay-sayers have been all this time. The economy ruined into bankruptcy due to alternative energy and electric cars? That’s fear-mongering on an extremist level. We’re still here, the economy is growing with new alternate energy jobs that’s increasing daily to everyone’s benefit.
One might call this reply “extremist”
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Electric cars do have their place. But they are not the silver lining government and others claim as stated in the post, societal life styles do not make it for everyone.
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It’s not the silver lining? How so? Gasoline forever or bicycles are the only alternative options?
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Harley Davidson will spin off its electric unit and give it its own stock ticker
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[b][link=https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2022-01-05/toyota-vw-are-plotting-to-beat-tesla-pour-billions-into-electric-cars?srnd=premium]Titans of Carmaking Are Plotting the Overthrow of Elon Musk[/link][/b]
In the other corner are giants of scale: [link=https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/VOW:GR]Volkswagen AG[/link] and [link=https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/7203:JP]Toyota Motor Corp.[/link] The worlds two biggest automakers each sold roughly 10 or 11 cars for every one Elon Musk did [link=https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-03/tesla-set-for-record-start-to-new-year-after-blowout-deliveries]last year[/link] realize the age of the battery-powered vehicle is here and are gaming out how to stay on top.
Within five days of one another last month, these masters of mass production laid out plans to splurge $170 billion over the coming years to preserve their claim on an industry theyve dominated for decades.
…When the two biggest car companies in the world decide to go all-in on electric, then there’s no longer a question of speculation the mainstream is going electric, said Andy Palmer, the former chief of Aston Martin and ex-Nissan Motor Co. executive often referred to as the godfather of EVs after being instrumental in developing the Japanese carmakers battery-powered Leaf. I expect the shift to electric to be faster than everyone expects.
[/QUOTE]
[link=https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-05/gm-enters-electric-pickup-battle-with-400-mile-silverado-ev?srnd=premium]GM Enters Electric Pickup Battle With 400-Mile Silverado EV
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And this one I find the most interesting:[h3][link=https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1134598_report-hyundai-stops-developing-internal-combustion-engines#:~:text=Hyundai%20Motor%20Group%20is%20winding,sources%20familiar%20with%20the%20matter.]Report: Hyundai stops developing internal combustion engines[/link][/h3]
Hyundai Motor Group is winding down development of internal combustion engines, [link=https://www.kedglobal.com/newsView/ked202112230013][i]The Korea Economic Daily[/i][/link] reported last week.
The automaker closed its research and development center for combustion engines in Namyang, South Korea, according to the report, which cited industry sources familiar with the matter.
“Now, it is inevitable to convert into electrification,” newly appointed Hyundai R&D boss Park Chung-kook said in an email to employees quoted by [i]The Korea Economic Daily[/i]. He said Hyundai “must change the system” by shifting its R&D resources away from combustion engines.
[/QUOTE]Bloomberg did a long radio segment on the current status of electric cars versus the ICE …. like Hyundai, it sounds like the german high end automakers are also giving up on seeking any improvement in gas engines. What we have now is the top. They’ll keep making them for the market (in fewer and fewer numbers) but all the new R&D money is going into electric.
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I sure hope we get a decent competitor with Tesla. Signs are promising.
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My suspicion is that these companies will roast Tesla. Ever see videos of people showing all the stuff wrong with their new $100k Tesla. The quality is very bad. GM as an example also has SuperCruise which I think was actually rated higher than Tesla autopilot. So just guessing. Better quality, price, service is gonna win out.
On the EV front Lucid, Rivian, Mercedes, Ford, VW, Hyundai all looks like they have some sweet rides coming out soon or already.
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
My suspicion is that these companies will roast Tesla.[b] Ever see videos of people showing all the stuff wrong with their new $100k Tesla. The quality is very bad[/b]. GM as an example also has SuperCruise which I think was actually rated higher than Tesla autopilot. So just guessing. Better quality, price, service is gonna win out.
On the EV front Lucid, Rivian, Mercedes, Ford, VW, Hyundai all looks like they have some sweet rides coming out soon or already.
Not my experience with ours and those of every friend and colleagues who has one. Are there issues and do some like to share on YouTube? Of course. Still most that do still love their car. I do, both of them.
Does that mean tesla won’t get roasted? Whatever that means. Not at all. Tesla has a very small share of the overall car market and I don’t think they need to be much bigger to be very successful and keep their base happy.
In the short run the thing keeping me from seriously looking at another EV maker is the lack of charging infrastructure. Super Charger stations are not perfect, but I can be pretty sure I will be able to find one if I take a trip out of town and beyond range. Every long range trip I have taken has been pretty fun.
This should get sorted out at some point but it doesn’t look like very soon.-
Tesla stock is $1000 a share. Explain that to me. There is plenty of videos if you want to look at people with wonky Teslas. Panel gaps, windows that dont fit right, bad weather stripping, just all kind ms of crazy things you wont see on other new cars. They also rank low in reliability. Thats not to say people dont like them.
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
Tesla stock is $1000 a share. Explain that to me. There is plenty of videos if you want to look at people with wonky Teslas. Panel gaps, windows that dont fit right, bad weather stripping, just all kind ms of crazy things you wont see on other new cars. They also rank low in reliability. Thats not to say people dont like them.
Ah, I actually had a premonition that you might bring up that point. I’ve never owned Tesla stock although in hindsight I clearly should have, at least at the beginning. Yes, the stock price is completely detached from reality. I wouldn’t be surprised if Tesla levels off in production and everyone learns that earnings can never meet expectations. I don’t care, as long as they remain viable enough to maintain service and charging stations for the life of my two.
Or, we will find out what lots of people who own Tesla stock tell me. “Tesla is not a car company, it’s a software company”.
LOL-
So they license the software?
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I have no clue. This is just the silly response when Tesla the company sycophants talk about why the valuation is absurd based on car production, say compared to GM.
I think the stock price is an absurd over valuation and should collapse at some point. Ive been wrong for a long time though. Certainly never would try to short the thing.
I am a fan of the car though.-
It is absurd. It trades at like 350x price to earnings. It’s worth way 5+ what Toyota is. and Toyota is a well run company that makes quality cars. Toyota also stayed ahead of the competition by stocking chips which is a lesson they learned from the Fukushima disaster.
I’m not saying I wouldn’t drive a Tesla. I don’t have the money anyway. If I had the $ and wanted an electric car I’d probably be looking at a Lucid. That thing looks delightful.-
[link=https://www.bmwblog.com/2022/01/14/bmw-working-on-new-combustion-engines/]https://www.bmwblog.com/2…ew-combustion-engines/[/link]
BMW seems to be one of the few automakers that plans to continue to work on improving internal combustion engines
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It seems sensible. Internal combustion seems like it has room for improvement while the work is still ongoing with electric. Keep trying to get the MPG up. The government could help with that if they mandated 89 octane as the bottom barrel fuel.
Well probably see v8 engines go first.
One surprise to me about Toyota. I was reading about the new Tundra truck. It was a long time in the making. Its still not up to par with the competition in towing/fuel economy/payload.
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Quote from dergon
[link=https://www.bmwblog.com/2022/01/14/bmw-working-on-new-combustion-engines/]https://www.bmwblog.com/2…ew-combustion-engines/[/link]
BMW seems to be one of the few automakers that plans to continue to work on improving internal combustion engines
Probably already discussed on this thread but seems to me the rate-limiting factor is charging stations. CA has this infrastructure in place but many places do not. I guess if mileage/charge at home is sufficient then this becomes a moot point. I will likely need a new vehicle in the next 2-3 years, still on the fence about electric-
Its a lot of electrical work needing done. Think of the amount of older homes that have 100amp or maybe less service. We had to change out a federal pacific panel at my grandmothers when that house was sold. Or wiring that that isnt up to modern standards. Like 2 wires instead of 3 hot/ground/neutral.
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[h1]General Motors planning to spend $6.5B, add 4,000 jobs at Michigan electric vehicle factories[/h1] LANSING, MI (WXYZ) General Motors will be announcing a new plant in Orion and Delta Township near Lansing that will create up to 4,000 new jobs for Michiganders.
GM teased this announcement Monday afternoon on Twitter.
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[h3][link=https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-26/ev-market-older-americans-prefer-to-get-ev-cars-from-legacy-automakers]Older Americans Prefer to Get Electric Vehicles From Legacy Automakers[/link][/h3]
A Morning Consult survey shows a generational divide in EV preferences.Baby Boomers could provide legacy automakers an advantage as they ramp up competition with Tesla Inc. in the electric vehicle market, according to a recent [link=https://morningconsult.com/2022/01/26/roadblocks-for-all-ev-future/]poll[/link] conducted by Morning Consult.
In the survey of 2,200 U.S. adults, 38 percent of those born between 1946 and 1964 said they would prefer to buy an EV from a company that traditionally has produced gas-powered cars, while only 12 percent said they would prefer a manufacturer that offers only electric options. The survey showed a generational divide in the EV market, with both Baby Boomers and members of Generation X leaning toward legacy automakers, while Millennials and Gen Z preferred pure-play electric manufacturers.…
The research also reveals that many Americans are eager for EVs to overtake combustion engines, with 19 percent of respondents saying that excited best describes their feelings about a future with predominantly electric vehicles. Still, carmakers have fears to overcome, with 14 percent reporting feeling anxious about the prospect.
[/QUOTE]
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[link=https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-01/ford-to-spend-up-to-20-billion-reorganizing-for-shift-to-evs?srnd=premium]Ford to Spend Up to $20 Billion Reorganizing for Shift to Electric Cars[/link]
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Super Bowl auto ads [b]very[/b] heavily tilted towards EVs.
I enjoyed the direct swipe at Musk from Polestar
[h3][link=https://fortune.com/2022/02/14/polestar-super-bowl-ad-tesla-elon-musk-volvo-china/]Polestar Super Bowl ad that ribs Tesla, Elon Musk[/link][/h3]
(and the jab at VW over the diesel scandal a nice touch)
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I just enjoy how Elon is anti-woke and remains and is ruffling the feathers of the SJWs. They cant bring themselves to try to cancel him yet haha.
[link=https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews4.com/amp/news/nation-world/elon-musk-says-wokeness-is-divisive-exclusionary-and-hateful]https://www.google.com/am…clusionary-and-hateful[/link]
The moment they try to cancel Elon, the wokesters have put the nail in the coffin of their movement. We can return to a rational color-blind society that is free of divisive identity politics
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probably his shareholders would be his worst enemy.
That being said if anyone cancels him I’d like it to be the SEC or IRS. He is what I would call a price manipulator. If there was any regulation around crypto stuff he should be in jail.
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[link=http://m.koreaherald.com/amp/view.php?ud=20220222000970] Volkswagen plans IPO of Porsche to ignite EV shift momentum
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
probably his shareholders would be his worst enemy.
That being said if anyone cancels him I’d like it to be the SEC or IRS. He is what I would call a price manipulator. If there was any regulation around crypto stuff he should be in jail.
Don’t talk about jail until the people you support (Pelosi, Biden, et al) are in there, because they have committed crimes against the law and humanity.-
Quote from Intermittent Blasting
Quote from DICOM_Dan
probably his shareholders would be his worst enemy.
That being said if anyone cancels him I’d like it to be the SEC or IRS. He is what I would call a price manipulator. If there was any regulation around crypto stuff he should be in jail.
Don’t talk about jail until the people you support (Pelosi, Biden, et al) are in there, because they have committed crimes against the law and humanity.
Thank you, Ivan.
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[h3][link=https://www.forbes.com/sites/samabuelsamid/2022/04/05/gm-and-honda-expand-partnership-to-create-sub-30k-evs-from-2027/]GM & Honda Joint Venture To Create Electric Vehicles Sub-$30,000[/link][/h3]
General Motors and Honda are expanding their collaboration on electric vehicles with a goal of launching new affordable EVs by 2027. Honda is already relying on its GM relationship for its first two purpose-built EVs for the North American market set to debut in 2024 as the Honda Prologue and a yet to be named Acura crossover. The new announcement today marks a significant expansion of that collaboration.
The first two Honda/Acura EVs are built on the first generation of the Ultium electric platform that GM developed but no other details have yet been announced. The new program will see the two automakers collaborate on the development of a next-generation of the architecture with new battery technology.
So far, all of the Ultium-based products revealed by GM are more premium models. Drawings of a $30,000 Equinox EV have been shown, but no range specifications have been announced for that vehicle. Among the products planned from the partnership are electric compact crossovers that sit below the Equinox. While the first two crossovers coming in 2024 will be built by GM in its plants, the next-generation Honda/Acura branded vehicles will be built in both GM and Hondas own factories in millions of units per year.
[/QUOTE]
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Honda has one cool EV but it didnt have a ton of range and never made it to the US.
Retro styling with a nice looking interior.
[link=https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a30690248/honda-e-u-s-market-why/]https://www.caranddriver….onda-e-u-s-market-why/[/link]
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[link=https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-04-13/mercedes-ev-breaks-1-000-kilometer-range-barrier-to-outdo-tesla?utm_medium=social&cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business&utm_content=business&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic]https://www.bloomberg.com…ign=socialflow-organic[/link]
[h1]Mercedes EV Breaks 1,000-Kilometer Range Barrier to Outdo Tesla[/h1] [ul][*]EQXX prototype rides from Germany to France on a single charge[*]Automaker pushing to wrestle technology lead from U.S. rival [/ul]
Mercedes-Benz’s latest electric concept car drove 1,008 kilometers 626 miles on a single charge of its battery pack, a feat that could signal a future free from range and charging anxiety.
The company [link=https://media.mbusa.com/releases/mercedes-benz-vision-eqxx-demonstrates-its-world-beating-efficiency-in-real-world-driving-over-1000-km-on-one-battery-charge-and-average-consumption-of-87-kwh100-km]said Thursday[/link] that its Vision EQXX traveled more than twice the distance the typical electric car sold today can cover between fill-ups, generally 200-300 miles.
The test trounced even the most advanced and expensive battery-powered vehicles on the market. Tesla’s longest-range model, the $100,000 Model S sedan, is rated by the Environmental Protection Agency for up to 405 miles of range. The [link=https://www.businessinsider.com/lucid-motors-air-dream-ev-range-tesla-model-s-2021-9]$170,000 Lucid Air[/link], the current range king, has an EPA rating of 520 miles.
[/QUOTE]
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I thought Mercedes also poo-pood the idea of a cheap EV.
I did see a Hyundai Ioniq5 on the road. Its pretty cool looking. I dig the retro-gaming lights.
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[link=https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-04-28/manchin-says-ludicrous-electric-vehicle-tax-credit-not-needed?srnd=premium]Manchin Rejects Bidens EV Tax Credit as Ludicrous[/link][/h3] The U.S. senators remarks come as Democrats seek to expand the incentive.
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Cling onto the coal until the last person in WV dies of black lung.
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Wonder if I can get a cheap Tesla soon when all the radical lefties have to sell theirs to protest againt evil Elon Musk. Or will they continue to support Elon Musk and buy his products? What happened to boycotting?
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You dont have to buy a Tesla. MB, VW, Hyundai, Porsche,Lucid.all have EVs.
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Why are we supposed to boycott Elon? To satisfy right-wing nutz so they can complain about Elon getting cancelled?
I guess you have to imbibe the Kool-aid in order to hear and understand the dog whistling arguments?
I’ll stay sober. No Kool-aid for me thanks.-
You prefer the woke Koolaid? Koolaid is still Koolaid.
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Quote from sartoriusBIG
Wonder if I can get a cheap Tesla soon when all the radical lefties have to sell theirs to protest againt evil Elon Musk. Or will they continue to support Elon Musk and buy his products? What happened to boycotting?
Boycotting is only fun if one doesn’t want the product. -
Quote from sartoriusBIG
Wonder if I can get a cheap Tesla soon when all the radical lefties have to sell theirs to protest againt evil Elon Musk. Or will they continue to support Elon Musk and buy his products? What happened to boycotting?
Still trying to figure out why anyone, especially “radical lefties” are supposed to boycott “evil” Elon. But only his Tesla business???
Why do you think he’s evil again?-
Price hikes on Lucids. These cars look really good IMO.
[link=https://www.engadget.com/lucid-is-boosting-the-prices-of-its-already-expensive-air-e-vs-102548042.html]https://www.engadget.com/…ir-e-vs-102548042.html[/link]
“In its earnings report, Lucid has [link=https://ir.lucidmotors.com/news-releases/news-release-details/lucid-reports-first-quarter-2022-financial-results]announced[/link] that it’s boosting the prices of its luxury Air EV lineup as much as 13 percent, [link=https://techcrunch.com/2022/05/05/lucid-is-raising-prices-on-its-luxury-air-ev-by-as-much-as-13/][i]TechCrunch[/i][/link] reported. The Air Grand Touring model will rise $15,000 to $154,000, the Air touring will jump $12,400 to $107,400 and the cheapest Air Pure model will go up $10,000 to $87,400. The new prices will not affect the 30,000 current reservation holders.”
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Quote from sartoriusBIG
You prefer the woke Koolaid? Koolaid is still Koolaid.
Exactly. And drug dealers should understand never to use their own product. You havent learned that.
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Hyundai to announce $7B, 8,500-job electric vehicle plant in Georgia during Joe Biden’s visit to South Korea.
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Saw one of these Ioniq 5s tonight. Sharp car from Hyundai. The lights look awesome
[link]https://www.hyundaiusa.com/us/en/vehicles/ioniq-5[/link]
One thing I dont get with Elon Musk and Tesla. He seems to be trying to make half the population dislike him with his whole Twitter fiasco. Does he not realize the people hes trying to troll are going to be able to buy electric cars from the fleets of various manufacturers. Ones that are most likely better made than his notoriously bad quality.
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Maybe he cares more about freedom of speech and than money.
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LOL.
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Fine then. Maybe he wants to make more money by opening up the other half of the country to twitter?
Same “argument” you made.
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Elon doesnt mind excluding half the population as his customers. Hed probably like to exclude even more than that. He needed a tiny fraction of the car buying public to build Tesla to what it is. Pretty crazy how the market values that.
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I had no intention of making this an Elon thread. Just that people can have options when car buying electric if they dont like Elon.
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This became the “Musk” thread due to posts that somehow “lefties” were apoplectic over Musk bidding for Twit and the answer was for “Lefties” to boycott Musk’s Tesla business.
Somehow that made perfect sense to some posters.
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
I had no intention of making this an Elon thread. Just that people can have options when car buying electric if they dont like Elon.
I’m not that aware of the car buying decisions being tied to how much people like the owner of the company. Agree that there are more and more choices for EV customers. This is good news, particularly for those of us that like theirs now and want to have more options.
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Ah-ha. Why out of all the car companies is Elon the one who sticks out as being a grade A arsehole?
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
Ah-ha. Why out of all the car companies is Elon the one who sticks out as being a grade A arsehole?
Why would I care? His cars are a joy to drive. Our family has two. Our group probably has 20. He created a product people want. Have to give him that credit.
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Kia, Hyundai, VW, Volvo, Mercedes, Porsche, BMW, Chevy, Nissan, Ford, Mini, Lucid, Hummer all brands that look to have competitive alternatives to Tesla.
