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Special Counsel investigation of Trump Mar-a-Lago and 2020 Election federal probes
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[h1][b]Trumps Delusion Defense[/b][/h1] [link=https://www.axios.com/2023/08/02/trump-legal-lawyer-defense-2020-post-election-delusion]Axios[/link] –
Former President Trumps legal team is teasing a risky defense to his historic third indictment: that Trump genuinely believed his own lies about election fraud despite being told by dozens of his closest advisers, allies and agencies that they were baseless.
If they proceed to trial, Trumps lawyers effectively could be asking a jury to believe that the former president was delusional undermining special counsel Jack Smiths core thesis that Trump knowingly sought to defraud the country.Politically, however, the delusion defense would force Republicans into the uncomfortable position of defending a candidate who cant be trusted to distinguish reality from conspiracy and who now wants to be president again.
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Mona Charen with a good read on the Trump legal defense challenges
[link=https://plus.thebulwark.com/p/trump-usual-defenses-wont-work-new-indictment?r=2jt0v&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web]https://plus.thebulwark.c…ost&utm_medium=web[/link]
Trumps two stock legal defensesthat he sincerely believed he had won the 2020 election and that he relied on the advice of counsel in his post-election activitieswill be very much in play.
How is Trump to convince a jury that he relied on such legal advice? If Trump doesnt testifywhich seems near-certainwho will supply the evidence of this? The attorneys on whom he might claim to have reliedRudy Giuliani, John Eastman, Jenna Ellis, Sidney Powellare unlikely to testify because they are either named or unnamed co-conspirators with potential criminal liability of their own. If any of them do testify, they risk being exposed as liars and frauds who can be torn to shreds on the witness stand.
The attorneys who [b][i]will[/i][/b] testify, on the other hand, are credible professionalsmany of whom, like Bill Barr and Pat Cipollone, were appointed by Trump himselfwho will establish that Trump did [i]not[/i] rely on the advice of counsel. Based on what they told the House January 6th Committee, we know they will testify that they advised Trump that they had seen no evidence of outcome-determinative fraud in the 2020 election, and that the vice president did not have constitutional authority to reject singlehandedly the slates of electors that had been officially certified.…
TRUMP AND HIS ATTORNEYS obviously know that neither a supposedly sincere belief that the election was stolen nor the claim that he relied on the advice of counsel will be an effective defense if it comes down to a criminal trial.
Trumps ultimate defense will have nothing to do with the facts, the law or the judicial system.
It will revolve around only one thing: getting re-elected so that Trump can either pardon himself or, more likely, rely on a carefully chosen attorney general to drop the charges.[/QUOTE]
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What a time we live in! The options at the next election are:
– candidate A who is in mental decline and was probably complicit in a scheme where a relative sold access to him in exchange for investments.
– candidate B who claims not to be criminally responsible for a coup attempt because he is delusional
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But its mountains to molehills.
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How did Kushner get 2 billion. Candidate B is both A and B
Quote from fw
What a time we live in! The options at the next election are:
– candidate A who is in mental decline and was probably complicit in a scheme where a relative sold access to him in exchange for investments.
– candidate B who claims not to be criminally responsible for a coup attempt because he is delusional
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[link=https://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trump-indictment-2020-election-jack-smith-january-6-fraud-e0068c4f]https://www.wsj.com/artic…nuary-6-fraud-e0068c4f[/link]
WSJ Editorial Board -[b] Another Troubling Trump Indictment[/b]
Ryan Goodman the editor of [i]Just Security[/i], dismantles the arguments tweet-by-tweet:
[link=https://twitter.com/rgoodlaw/status/1686829362807525376]https://twitter.com/rgood…us/1686829362807525376[/link]
1/ The WSJ Editorial has a fundamental flaw. I would agree with them that Indictment uses a dangerously “broad theory” of criminal conspiracy if the allegations they describe in the indictment were, indeed, in the indictment. But they are not.
2. On left: WSJ says Indictment is about a president “lobbying his own Justice Department to investigate voter fraud.” On right: What Indictment, actually, alleges Trump pressured Justice Department to conduct sham investigations and issue false statements on finding fraud.
3/ On left: WSJ says Indictment is about Trump “lobbying state officials to hunt for voter fraud.” On right: Indictment, actually, alleges Trump lied to and threatened Georgia official with criminal prosecution and solicited Arizona official to exceed his lawful authority.
4/ On left: WSJ suggests Indictment is about Trump (publicly?) “lying, and then tak[ing] action on that lie.” WSJ equates with simple “election challenges” in courts. On right: Indictment, actually, alleges Trump himself knowingly lied to courts in key fraud allegations.
5/ On left: WSJ suggest Indictment does not connect Trump to the rioters at the Capitol On right: Indictment, actually, does make the nexus. Correct, it is not new evidence per se (and Smith may have more evidence). But the Indictment, in legal terms, does go there.
6/6 As I noted in different thread, Indictment is no bizarro legal theory. Federal district court judge held Trump-Eastman likely engaged in criminal conspiracy under same 2 key statutes. So did bipartisan model prosecution memos by top legal experts.
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[link=https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-lawyer-john-lauro-charges-interview-1817439?amp=1]https://www.newsweek.com/…nterview-1817439?amp=1[/link]
Donald Trump Lawyer Appears To Admit to One of Jack Smith’s Charges-
“President Trump wanted to get to the truth. He desperately wanted to get to what happened during the 2020 cycle. He did it in the courtroom. He did it in lobbying legislatures, that’s all First Amendment,” Lauro said.
“And then at the end, he asked Mr. Pence to pause the voting for 10 days, allow the state legislatures to weigh in, and then they could make a determination to audit, or re-audit, or recertify. But what he didn’t do is send in the tanks, tell Mike Pence don’t go to Capitol Hill, or do anything that would obstruct the due process of government.”
On page 34 of the indictment, there is a section which details how Trump and Eastman met with Pence on January 4, 2021, two days before the Capitol riot, to try and convince Pence that he should “reject or send to the states Biden’s legitimate electoral votes, rather than count them.”
On page 42, there is a section which states that hours after the January 6 attack took place, Eastman wrote to Pence to “implore you to consider one more relatively minor violation” of the Electoral Count Act and “adjourn for 10 days to allow the legislatures to finish their investigations, as well as to allow a full forensic audit of the massive amount of illegal activity that has occurred here.”
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This happened in full sight. They are happy to admit to anything as they think the law doesn’t apply to them.
Meadows and Eastman are the people I wan to see locked up.
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[link=https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1687642534804127744?s=20]Politico[/link]
Prosecutors just proposed a protective order referencing Trumps Truth Social post from earlier tonight, saying it clearly references other parties/participants in the case.
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Trump posted on Truth Social: IF YOU GO AFTER ME, IM COMING AFTER YOU!
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Trump swore in court Thursday he would not attempt to influence or intimidate witnesses, retaliate against anyone, or in any other way attempt to obstruct the administration of justice.
[link=https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23898465/protectiveorder.pdf][u]Link to the court filing
[/u][/link]
The Governments proposed order is consistent with other such orders commonly used in this District and is not overly restrictive. It allows the defendant prompt and effective use of discovery materials in connection with his defense, including by showing discovery materials to witnesses who also agree to abide by the orders terms. All the proposed order seeks to prevent is the improper dissemination or use of discovery materials, including to the public. Such a restriction is particularly important in this case because the defendant has previously issued public statements on social media regarding witnesses, judges, attorneys, and others associated with legal matters pending against him. And in recent days, regarding this case, the defendant has issued multiple postseither specifically or by implicationincluding the following, which the defendant posted just hours ago:
If the defendant were to begin issuing public posts using detailsor, for example, grand jury transcriptsobtained in discovery here, it could have a harmful chilling effect on witnesses or adversely affect the fair administration of justice in this case.
[/QUOTE]
👀 Prosecutors just proposed a protective order referencing Trump’s Truth Social post from earlier tonight, saying it clearly references other parties/participants in the case pic.twitter.com/COz6jB2P06
— Kyle Cheney (@kyledcheney) August 5, 2023
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Judge Chutkan has ordered Trump to respond to the special counsels protective order request by 5pmET Monday
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With any luck we will see him jailed on a contempt charge.
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Quote from fw
With any luck we will see him jailed on a contempt charge.
A girl can dream.
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Trump legal team wants a delay.
And they’re already lying in their brief …
[link=https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23898624-11-trump-mt-delay]https://www.documentcloud…8624-11-trump-mt-delay[/link]
“Defendant is prepared to confer in good faith”
…Trump doesn’t do “good faith”
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Judge: ” Nope.”
[link=https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/04/polit…020/index.html]https://www.cnn.com/2023/…polit…020/index.html[/link]
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[b]Pence Refutes Trump Legal Teams Claims[/b]
Mike Pence refuted the notion that former President Donald Trump only asked him to delay the counting of electoral votes on Jan. 6, 2021, to allow for audits of state election results, disputing the characterization of their interactions made by some members of Trumps legal team, CBS News reports.
Said Pence: Thats not what happened.
He added: From sometime in the middle of December, the president began to be told that I had some authority to reject or return votes back to the states. I had no such authority.
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Nixon: “Well, when the president does it, that means that it is not illegal”
Trump attorney today: “Everything that President Trump did was while he was in office, as a president. He is now immune from prosecution for acts that he takes in connection with those policy decisions.”
Complete presidential immunity.
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The Unitary Executive. The American version of a Monarch, just what the founders wanted and designed. “Originallism”
Yes, Nixon used it as a defense against Watergate as does Trump as a defense against his abuses but the belief of the Unitary Executive was advanced by Reagan in practice and expanded further by Bush/Cheney.
[link=https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/cheney/themes/believers.html]https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/cheney/themes/believers.html[/link]
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I may not like Trump, but I love our Constitution, so I feel compelled to speak out.
The latest indictment, which I encourage everyone to read, attempts to criminalize Trumps routine misstatements of fact and law in connection with the 2020 election.
But this is precisely the sort of wrong that must be addressed politically under our Constitution, not criminally.
Our system cant survive if political disputes are removed to the criminal realm. Theres no limiting principle to such an approach.
Remind me again which former presidents have been indicted for going to war without congressional approval, spying on Americans in violation of the Fourth Amendment, abusing emergency declarations to bypass checks and balances, or ignoring legal advisers to pursue a clearly unlawful policy.
We dont criminalize these actions, egregious as they are, because they are matters of political contention. Were allowed to disagree about the workings of our constitutional system without fear of criminal reprisal.
Politicians are constantly misguided and just plain mistaken about a lot of thingsoften remarkably so. It endangers all Americans to begin treating politicians false beliefs regarding political or constitutional matters, even when theyre obviously wrong, as criminal offenses.
We impeach people for violating the public trustfor political misconduct or serious incompetence. We reject them. We vote them out. We never again elect them.
We dont imprison them.
Justin Amash
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The criminal case is definitely NOT about Trump’s 1st Amendment rights no matter how hard conservatives try to justify Trump’s actions as mere free speech prosecution.
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I think his lawyer went on TV and called the “mistatements” technical violations of the constitution.
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
I think his lawyer went on TV and called the “mistatements” technical violations of the constitution.
Yep. “Technical violations” is the new “process crimes”
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the street in front of the Fulton County. GA courthouse now closed
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[h1][b]Former Georgia Lt. Governor Subpoenaed in Fulton County Probe[/b][/h1]
Former Lt. Gov. Geoff Duncan (R) has received a subpoena to testify as a witness before a Fulton County grand jury that could deliver indictments against former President Donald Trump and his allies this month, the [link=https://www.ajc.com/politics/geoff-duncan-subpoenaed-in-fultons-trump-probe/C4UZWTCSPJGU5HNRX4IHP4Z5DQ/]Atlanta Journal Constitution[/link] reports.
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NBC News confirms: Bernie Kerik, ex-NYPD commissioner and longtime Giuliani associate, met with investigators in the Special Counsel’s office today.
No pardon on the horizon for Bernie this time around.
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[link=https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1688993477827219456?s=20]https://twitter.com/atrup…88993477827219456?s=20[/link]
Trump claims Fani Willis is racist against white people like him and spreads rumors about her sex life
Trump claims Fani Willis is racist against white people like him and spreads rumors about her sex life pic.twitter.com/DJu4XWCang
— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) August 8, 2023
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[link=https://twitter.com/MuellerSheWrote/status/1688986290304552960]https://twitter.com/Muell…us/1688986290304552960[/link]
despite the judge ordering a hearing on the protective order take place before Friday, and despite trump not being required to appear, trump wants to delay the hearing until next week.
… judge denies trump request
[link=https://twitter.com/MuellerSheWrote/status/1689027591158865924]https://twitter.com/Muell…us/1689027591158865924[/link]
chedules the protective order hearing for Friday, denying team trumps request to hold the hearing next week. She doesnt mention the fact that trumps lawyers said Friday was lost as an option.-
Getting “This thing is going to trial before the election come hell or high water” vibes
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Be there or be square. Chutkan seems pretty no nonsense.
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