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Sentiment to defund Obamacare grows
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Numbers prove Obama won’t be re-elected in 3 years.
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Quote from Frumious
Numbers prove Obama won’t be re-elected in 3 years.
I think it is probably true that reading the raw politics of the shutdown, team Obama would be willing to take a temporary hit to his polling so long as the GOP is congress is faring even more poorly in popular opinion. Thus far that seems to be the case.
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Republican circular firing squad.
Podhoretz on the Party & the Shutdown, etc.
[link]http://nypost.com/2013/10/08/suicide-of-the-right/[/link]
Every piece of evidence we have so far on the government shutdown shows the public is blaming Republicans most of all for the standoff. On Monday, an ABC poll showed 71 percent fault the GOP; 61 percent fault Congressional Democrats; 51 percent fault President Obama.Yes, Democrats look bad. Yes, Obama is probably doing himself no favors by saying he wont negotiate when the public wants politicians in Washington to work together.But Republicans look considerably worse. And for the Right, the Republican Party is the only game in town.This is what my fellow conservatives who are acting as the enablers for irresponsible GOP politicians seem not to understand. They like this fight,
If ObamaCare had been as unpopular as conservatives believed, their plan for the shutdown that there would be a public uprising to force Democratic senators in close races in 2014 to defund it wouldve worked. It didnt. Not a single senator budged.Their tactic failed, and now what they are left with is House Speaker John Boehner basically begging the president of the United States to negotiate with him. One thing we know for sure is that its not an equal fight, this fight between a man who received 65 million votes nationwide and a man who received 246,000 votes in one congressional district in Ohio.
…the US Congress is viewed favorably by . . . 11 percent of Americans.
Eleven percent.-
This is not a temporary hit. This is a breach in the dam. The benefit of the doubt that automatically went to the Democrats in these shutdown situations is disappearing. Too many indefensible issues, such as the Obamacare debut debacle, the spectacle of the national parks, the Harry Reid “Why would I do that?” NIH comments, the White House stonewalling, the choreographed press conferences, the special exemptions, the IRS tax abuses …etc.
Once the piranhas smell blood in the water and the press shield is dropped, the liberal agenda is going to be a damaged brand for a long time.-
Quote from aldadoc
This is not a temporary hit. This is a breach in the dam. The benefit of the doubt that automatically went to the Democrats in these shutdown situations is disappearing. Too many indefensible issues, such as the Obamacare debut debacle, the spectacle of the national parks, the Harry Reid “Why would I do that?” NIH comments, the White House stonewalling, the choreographed press conferences, the special exemptions, the IRS tax abuses …etc.
Once the piranhas smell blood in the water and the press shield is dropped, the liberal agenda is going to be a damaged brand for a long time.
I hope you realize you are NOT speaking in support of the Republican Party; you are merely speaking in support of the 40-ish rogues in the Terrorist Party. The Republican Party would approve the budget bill if it was actually asked to vote on it.
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Sentiment to Defund Obamacare has peaked …. for now.
[link=http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/09/politics/shutdown-showdown/index.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_allpolitics+(RSS%3A+Politics)]http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/09/politics/shutdown-showdown/index.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_allpolitics+(RSS%3A+Politics)[/link]
On Wednesday, GOP leaders appeared to shift their focus from efforts to dismantle Obama’s signature health care reform, the initial driving force behind the shutdown, to securing spending cuts elsewhere.
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Quote from dergon
Sentiment to Defund Obamacare has peaked …. for now.
[link=http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/09/politics/shutdown-showdown/index.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_allpolitics+(RSS%3A+Politics)]http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/09/politics/shutdown-showdown/index.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_allpolitics+(RSS%3A+Politics)[/link]
On Wednesday, GOP leaders appeared to shift their focus from efforts to dismantle Obama’s signature health care reform, the initial driving force behind the shutdown, to securing spending cuts elsewhere.
They’re eating each other alive:
Quote from Grover Norquist!!!
[i]I think it was very possible for us to delay the implementation of Obamacare for a year until Cruz came along and crashed and burned,[/i] anti-tax activist Grover Norquist said
[link=http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/key-republicans-signal-willingness-to-back-down-on-effort-to-defund-health-care-law/2013/10/09/865b9284-30f6-11e3-89ae-16e186e117d8_story.html?hpid=z1]http://www.washingtonpost…7d8_story.html?hpid=z1[/link]
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Quote from aldadoc
[link=http://washingtonexaminer.com/new-gop-strategy-offer-deal-on-debt-limit-but-keep-shutdown-fight-going/article/2537083]http://washingtonexaminer…-going/article/2537083[/link]
GOP decides to fight on , pushing for Obamacare mandate delay. Cruz was right!As for the Washington Examiner, you call this reporting news?:
[link=http://washingtonexaminer.com/ted-cruz-poll-shows-gop-gained-in-fight-over-obamacare-despite-shutdown/article/2537066]http://washingtonexaminer…utdown/article/2537066[/link]
Cruz paid for the poll HIMSELF, and the guy who conducted the poll is a known conservative apologist! How the hell is that objective reporting? The Examiner’s positioning of that article is extremely disingenuous.
You cannot be serious.
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[link=http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/09/opinion/borger-defund-obamacare-fantasy/index.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_allpolitics+(RSS%3A+Politics]http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/09/opinion/borger-defund-obamacare-fantasy/index.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_allpolitics+(RSS%3A+Politics[/link])
Goodbye to the strategy Republicans knew was a fantasy
……So Obamacare had a crashing start, the government is shut down, and the deadline to raise the debt ceiling is a week away. And the debt ceiling, as you know by now, is the bigger problem: no Social Security checks, no Medicare, high interest rates, and on and on. Everyone — save for some debt ceiling deniers — believes it can’t happen. So what to do?
If you look closely here, you will see that something very profound has changed: Republicans seem to have pressed the delete key on talk of defunding Obamacare. They can’t get it done. Their poll numbers are tanking. They’re panicking. And some cooler heads I have spoken with are privately making the same point: Wasn’t it always unfair to promise people something the Republicans [i]knew[/i] they could never deliver (defunding Obamacare)?
So [b]Boehner, no fool, carefully turned the page on all of this, moving to the terra firma he always wanted to be on in the first place: deficit reduction. [/b] Tie a package of spending cuts to raising the debt ceiling, he says. That’s what has always been done. We are being reasonable about this.
No, says the president. You’re not being reasonable. You tried to kill my health reform bill, so no negotiation until you fund the government and raise the debt ceiling without anything attached.
In the end, they will probably find a short-term way to fund the government and raise the debt ceiling and continue to argue over spending and taxes. [b] But the House GOP scheme, abetted by Cruz and outside conservatives, will become a case for the civics classes. A study of the newly perverse politics of our time, and how a government was brought to its knees over a fight only a few wanted to wage — that everyone secretly knew could never be won. [/b]-
should Cruz step back due to prior representation of the speaker…like ??? conflict of interest
Quote from dergon
[link=http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/09/opinion/borger-defund-obamacare-fantasy/index.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_allpolitics+(RSS%3A+Politics]http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/09/opinion/borger-defund-obamacare-fantasy/index.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_allpolitics+(RSS%3A+Politics[/link])
Goodbye to the strategy Republicans knew was a fantasy……So Obamacare had a crashing start, the government is shut down, and the deadline to raise the debt ceiling is a week away. And the debt ceiling, as you know by now, is the bigger problem: no Social Security checks, no Medicare, high interest rates, and on and on. Everyone — save for some debt ceiling deniers — believes it can’t happen. So what to do?
If you look closely here, you will see that something very profound has changed: Republicans seem to have pressed the delete key on talk of defunding Obamacare. They can’t get it done. Their poll numbers are tanking. They’re panicking. And some cooler heads I have spoken with are privately making the same point: Wasn’t it always unfair to promise people something the Republicans [i]knew[/i] they could never deliver (defunding Obamacare)?
So [b]Boehner, no fool, carefully turned the page on all of this, moving to the terra firma he always wanted to be on in the first place: deficit reduction. [/b]Tie a package of spending cuts to raising the debt ceiling, he says. That’s what has always been done. We are being reasonable about this.
No, says the president. You’re not being reasonable. You tried to kill my health reform bill, so no negotiation until you fund the government and raise the debt ceiling without anything attached.
In the end, they will probably find a short-term way to fund the government and raise the debt ceiling and continue to argue over spending and taxes. [b] But the House GOP scheme, abetted by Cruz and outside conservatives, will become a case for the civics classes. A study of the newly perverse politics of our time, and how a government was brought to its knees over a fight only a few wanted to wage — that everyone secretly knew could never be won. [/b]
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[link=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2013/10/11/20-signs-youve-drunk-the-kool-aid/]http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2013/10/11/20-signs-youve-drunk-the-kool-aid/[/link]
Seems like you can’t go 12 hours without a republican piling on their own these days. This time it’s neocon Jennifer Rubin:
[b]
20 signs youve drunk the Kool-Aid[/b][/h1]There has been, to put it mildly, some mass self-delusion going on in right-wing circles. Heres how to tell if you are suffering from the ill-effects of the echo chamber:
1. You think Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) has it nailed when he tells the Value Voters Summit that the Dems are feeling the heat in the shutdown fight.
2. You think the problem is Ken Cuccinelli isnt conservative enough.
3. You think if only the shutdown went on longer the GOP would win this fight.
3. You think if only the shutdown went on longer the GOP would win this fight.
4. You think poll numbers showing the plummeting favorability of Sen. Mike Lee (R-Utah) and Cruzs 2-to-1 negatives are skewed.
5. You think that if the GOP doesnt win the shutdown fight it will be because of the mainstream media.
6. You think Americans want to shut down the government to get rid of Obamacare.
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17. You think the GOP would have done better with Newt Gingrich, Herman Cain, Rick Santorum or Ron Paul as its 2012 presidential nominee. You think Santorum blew it when he stopped talking about contraception.
18. You think Republicans should run hard at the national level on a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage.
19. You think President Ronald Reagan would decry compromise and support primarying the Senate minority leader.
20. You think right-wing talk radio hosts are a good barometer of American public opinion.
If you answered yes to more than half of these, its time to rethink your political assumptions.
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[link=http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2013/10/15/democrats_raise_their_ante_120328.html]http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2013/10/15/democrats_raise_their_ante_120328.html[/link]
Democrats Raise Their Ante[/h2]
A crazy thing is happening in shuttered, dysfunctional Washington: Democrats are pushing back.
This phenomenon is so novel and disorienting that many Republicans in Congress, especially the tea party bullies, seem unable to grasp what’s going on. They keep expecting President Obama and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid to fold like a cheap suit because, well, such a thing has happened before. I guess it’s understandable that the GOP might have forgotten the difference between bluffing and actually holding a winning hand.
ate last week, Reid began demanding that Republicans not only reopen the government and raise the debt ceiling but that they also make concessions on the draconian, irrational-by-design budget cuts known as sequestration. In political terms, he is demanding that the GOP pay a price for putting the country through all this needless drama.….
Was Reid moving the goal posts? Of course he was. That’s what negotiators do when they have the upper hand.
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Quote from dergon
[link=http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2013/10/15/democrats_raise_their_ante_120328.html]http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2013/10/15/democrats_raise_their_ante_120328.html[/link]
Democrats Raise Their AnteA crazy thing is happening in shuttered, dysfunctional Washington: Democrats are pushing back.
This phenomenon is so novel and disorienting that many Republicans in Congress, especially the tea party bullies, seem unable to grasp what’s going on. They keep expecting President Obama and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid to fold like a cheap suit because, well, such a thing has happened before. I guess it’s understandable that the GOP might have forgotten the difference between bluffing and actually holding a winning hand.
ate last week, Reid began demanding that Republicans not only reopen the government and raise the debt ceiling but that they also make concessions on the draconian, irrational-by-design budget cuts known as sequestration. In political terms, he is demanding that the GOP pay a price for putting the country through all this needless drama.
….
Was Reid moving the goal posts? Of course he was. That’s what negotiators do when they have the upper hand.If I was Reid right about now, I’d stick it to the House GOP and ONLY agree to a 2 year delay on the med device tax, and then tell Boehner to eat static until he puts it up to a House vote.
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Quote from Point Man
Quote from dergon
[link=http://www.gallup.com/poll/165548/approval-affordable-care-act-inches.aspx?utm_source=google&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=syndication]http://www.gallup.com/poll/165548/approval-affordable-care-act-inches.aspx?utm_source=google&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=syndication[/link]
Despite the highly publicized technical issues that have plagued the government’s health insurance exchange website that went live on Oct. 1, Americans’ views of the Affordable Care Act are slightly more positive now than they were in August. Forty-five percent now approve of the law, while 50% disapprove, for a net approval score of -5. In June and August, net approval was slightly lower, at -8.
Not a huge positive, but move is in favor of greater support.
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On a separate note, Obama’s personal approval ticked up slightly as well since the shutdown, with an RCP average of 45% at week’s end.
Also not a big bump, but the economist poll looks more and more like an outlier than an accurrate reflection of trend.
Dergon,
You can’t be terribly smart – either you or your socialistic brethren. What has the liar-in-chief promised you today? Let’s review…..1. You can keep your current health plan 2. You can keep your doctor 3. And the most pinocchio-like of them all, [b]it will cost you less. [/b]It’s lemming time – get ready to plunge off the cliff.How does citing national public opinion polls on support for Obama and the ACA make me not terribly smart?
I don’t understand your reply. You seem to be saying “Obama lied. Therefore the polls you cited don’t exist. ”
What if — Even if some peoples’ plans get changed, some people have to change doctors, and some people pay more — What if – stay with me here — what if even if all those things happen to some people yet overall national support for the ACA and the president stilll go up? Crazy to ponder, isn’t it. But maybe, just maybe, most Americans will come to view the ACA as a net benefit to society despite some issues. Maybe the polls show that is already happening.
It’s really not so hard to believe.-
Quote from dergon
What if — Even if some peoples’ plans get changed, some people have to change doctors, and some people pay more — What if – stay with me here — what if even if all those things happen to some people yet overall national support for the ACA and the president stilll go up? Crazy to ponder, isn’t it. But maybe, just maybe, most Americans will come to view the ACA as a net benefit to society despite some issues. Maybe the polls show that is already happening.
It’s really not so hard to believe.
See, none of that matters, dergon. The people be damned, Point Man’s point is that POTUS “lied” and that’s all that’s important. It makes no difference if we end up being better off (which means POTUS was right), or that the people will love it (which means POtUS was right), or that the increasing cost of healthcare will at least slow down if not reverse (which means POTUS was right). The fact that a few thousand Americans are whining about it makes Obama a complete and utter liar.
See, this is the conservative weapon. They know in any population you cannot please EVERYONE, so they completely ignore population statistics and find the small minority outlier and then claim this is what’s happening “all across America” and try to convince people this is ALL that’s happening.
It’s extremely and deliberately disingenuous, and that makes [u]Point Man[/u] et al. the liar, not POTUS.
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[link=http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/28/21213547-obama-admin-knew-millions-could-not-keep-their-health-insurance#comments]http://investigations.nbc…lth-insurance#comments[/link]
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The article linked by radmike is a devastating indictment of Obamacare. The extent to which the Obama administration lied is jaw dropping and should never be forgotten.
A policy built on lies and mandates will never stand the test of time. ACA is toast. -
Radmike what happens if the Republicans get their revenue neutral tax reform? Or can we not do that because someone will have to pay more.
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Quote from radmike
[link=http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/28/21213547-obama-admin-knew-millions-could-not-keep-their-health-insurance#comments]http://investigations.nbc…lth-insurance#comments[/link]
[blockquote]The law states that policies in effect as of March 23, 2010 will be grandfathered, meaning consumers can keep those policies even though they dont meet requirements of the new health care law. But…if any part of a policy was significantly changed [i][u][b]since that date [/b][/u][/i]– the deductible, co-pay, or benefits, for example — the policy would not be grandfathered.
And because many policies will have been changed since the key date, the percentage of individual market policies losing grandfather status in a given year exceeds the 40 to 67 percent range.
[/blockquote] Since that article only targets individual and not employer-sponsored plans, I guess that means you are agreeing with my original statement that the majority of employer-sponsored plans are just fine and people can, in fact, stick with them.
There was never any doubt that the minimalist catastrophic policies that individuals purchased would be affected by ACA. That’s the whole point of ACA – to get rid of those policies that targeted individuals who were willing to settle for sub-standard health benefits. ACA simply raises the health standards so that each insurance company has to offer a safer, more humane product.
But the article is worded in a way that implies Obama lied, however there is nothing about the policies being “canceled” that contradicts Obama’s original claim that if you like your pre-ACA policy you can stay with it since he clearly was talking only about grandfathered policies up to that point and not new (or changed) policies that were introduced after the fact. For example, there is no contradiction in the statement “Nothing in the Affordable Care Ace forces people out of their health plans”. That statement is true since it clearly was referring to pre-ACA policies. If people get forced out of their health plan it’s because the INSURANCE companies made a decision to change their pre-ACA policies at their own discretion and not because of anything required by ACA. It’s simply an example of the insurance industry asserting its legal rights in a free enterprise system.
The article made it clear that the policies that are being “canceled” are those that became instituted AFTER Congress voted ACA into law in ’10, the date BEFORE which any sub-standard policy would be grandfathered. Therefore, people who go their current sub-standard policies BEFORE 2010 when ACA was voted into law may still keep their policies since they are, in fact, grandfathered in by ACA. But if the insurance companies decide, on their own, that they want to change the terms of their plans, which they’ve always been free to do and have done, then they don’t qualify as being grandfathered. That’s simply the free enterprise system at work. Can’t blame Obama for insurance companies making their own decision to change their product configuration.
Thanks for verifying.
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it will be interesting in Kentucky since K connect(?) IS MOVING RIGHT ALONG(not called ObamaCare) and Mitch has to run for re-election.
does he realize the SCOTUS put the seal of approval on the plan…some of the brightest people in the countryQuote from Lux
Quote from dergon
What if — Even if some peoples’ plans get changed, some people have to change doctors, and some people pay more — What if – stay with me here — what if even if all those things happen to some people yet overall national support for the ACA and the president stilll go up? Crazy to ponder, isn’t it. But maybe, just maybe, most Americans will come to view the ACA as a net benefit to society despite some issues. Maybe the polls show that is already happening.
It’s really not so hard to believe.
See, none of that matters, dergon. The people be damned, Point Man’s point is that POTUS “lied” and that’s all that’s important. It makes no difference if we end up being better off (which means POTUS was right), or that the people will love it (which means POtUS was right), or that the increasing cost of healthcare will at least slow down if not reverse (which means POTUS was right). The fact that a few thousand Americans are whining about it makes Obama a complete and utter liar.
See, this is the conservative weapon. They know in any population you cannot please EVERYONE, so they completely ignore population statistics and find the small minority outlier and then claim this is what’s happening “all across America” and try to convince people this is ALL that’s happening.
It’s extremely and deliberately disingenuous, and that makes [u]Point Man[/u] et al. the liar, not POTUS.
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[b]”it will be interesting in Kentucky since K connect(?) IS MOVING RIGHT ALONG(not called ObamaCare) and Mitch has to run for re-election. [/b]
[b]does realist the SCOTUS put the seal of approval on the plan…some of the brightest people in the country”[/b]
[b] [/b]
You libs are soooooo brainwashed !! Almost all of Kentucky’s sign-ups are Medicaid. Kentucky will not be able to overcome this additional cost since they now are in crisis mode financially and are cutting costs across the board. For example, the Kentucky State Police, which is already critically understaffed, have had to reduce their budget by $5.8 million. So you and the obummer shouldn’t use Kentucky with it’s demo-crite governor as a good example of obummercare success. If you want to spin something try a top.-
Quote from Point Man
Almost all of Kentucky’s sign-ups are Medicaid. Kentucky will not be able to overcome this additional cost since they now are in crisis mode financially and are cutting costs across the board. For example, the Kentucky State Police, which is already critically understaffed, have had to reduce their budget by $5.8 million. So you and the obummer shouldn’t use Kentucky with it’s demo-crite governor as a good example of obummercare success. If you want to spin something try a top.
That’s because Rand Paul’s and Mitch McConnell’s destitute Republican base in KY has turned that state into one of the worst “taker states” in the nation. They get $1.51 from the federal government for every $1 they contribute back. Talk about a redistribution of wealth!
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Quote from Lux
Quote from Point Man
Almost all of Kentucky’s sign-ups are Medicaid. Kentucky will not be able to overcome this additional cost since they now are in crisis mode financially and are cutting costs across the board. For example, the Kentucky State Police, which is already critically understaffed, have had to reduce their budget by $5.8 million. So you and the obummer shouldn’t use Kentucky with it’s demo-crite governor as a good example of obummercare success. If you want to spin something try a top.
That’s because Rand Paul’s and Mitch McConnell’s destitute Republican base in KY has turned that state into one of the worst “taker states” in the nation. They only contribute 61 cents for every dollar they take from the feds. Talk about a redistribution of wealth!
Soapy, you are getting too many rads doing those 5am portables in ICU. Thanks for helping to support my response that the obummercare fiasco is a fiasco, and the sign-up of Medicaid patients is nothing to brag about. Are you ready to admit that this great social experiment is an [b][style=”color: #800000;”]”udder” [/style][/b]failure?
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Quote from Point Man
Quote from Lux
Quote from Point Man
Almost all of Kentucky’s sign-ups are Medicaid. Kentucky will not be able to overcome this additional cost since they now are in crisis mode financially and are cutting costs across the board. For example, the Kentucky State Police, which is already critically understaffed, have had to reduce their budget by $5.8 million. So you and the obummer shouldn’t use Kentucky with it’s demo-crite governor as a good example of obummercare success. If you want to spin something try a top.
That’s because Rand Paul’s and Mitch McConnell’s destitute Republican base in KY has turned that state into one of the worst “taker states” in the nation. They only contribute 61 cents for every dollar they take from the feds. Talk about a redistribution of wealth!
Soapy, you are getting too many rads doing those 5am portables in ICU. Thanks for helping to support my response that the obummercare fiasco is a fiasco, and the sign-up of Medicaid patients is nothing to brag about. Are you ready to admit that this great social experiment is an [b]”udder” [/style][/b]failure?
How you concluded that from my post, I have no idea.
All I confirmed is that Kentucky is messed up. It has nothing to do with Medicaid or ACA and has everything to do with the way extreme conservatives deliberately fool people into voting against their best interests. History clearly shows that Obama has NOTHING to do with how messed up Kentucky has been for many many years.
I have no problem with the sign-up of Medicaid patients if that’s what’s needed.
And so far, based on everything I’ve read so far, ACA will work royally, just as it has in Mass.
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[b]”It has nothing to do with Medicaid or ACA and has everything to do with the way extreme conservatives deliberately fool people into voting against their best interests”[/b]
[b] [/b]
Soapy, again you are delusional. Fooling people to vote against their best interest? What has the obummer talked you lib lemmings into? Voting for the most unqualified person in the history of our great nation. Y’all elected this loser. Please tell us one thing this Kenyan has done for you besides take away your privacy, economy, morality, freedom and self respect. Spin on soap!!!-
Quote from Point Man
[b]”It has nothing to do with Medicaid or ACA and has everything to do with the way extreme conservatives deliberately fool people into voting against their best interests”[/b]
[b] [/b]
Soapy, again you are delusional. Fooling people to vote against their best interest? What has the obummer talked you lib lemmings into? Voting for the most unqualified person in the history of our great nation. Y’all elected this loser. Please tell us one thing this Kenyan has done for you besides take away your privacy, economy, morality, freedom and self respect. Spin on soap!!!Seriously?
I won’t go into the many, many humanitarian and foreign policy examples, but one rather glaring and obvious domestic example that you might actually understand: [u][i]reconciliation of AMT[/i][/u]
You might like that one because it’s an indictment against Clinton’s crappy economic policy.
I made a fortune getting that “tax escrow” back into my own coffers during Obama’s first term.
And thanks for reminding me about that. You made my day.
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[b]”I won’t go into the many, many humanitarian and foreign policy examples” [/b]
[b] [/b]
Now that is funny!!! Let me see now…….Libya, Egypt, et. al. Is he a humanitarian or foreign policy champion, or what? You are truly without a clue. Please cite some of those examples you refer to.-
Quote from Point Man
[b]”I won’t go into the many, many humanitarian and foreign policy examples” [/b] [b] [/b]
Now that is funny!!! Let me see now…….Libya, Egypt, et. al. Is he a humanitarian or foreign policy champion, or what? You are truly without a clue. Please cite some of those examples you refer to.You specifically asked me to name ONE thing.
So I named one thing.
And I made a fortune.
But that’s still not a good enough reason for you.
Get lost, loser.
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Quote from Lux
Quote from Point Man
[b]”I won’t go into the many, many humanitarian and foreign policy examples” [/b][b] [/b]
Now that is funny!!! Let me see now…….Libya, Egypt, et. al. Is he a humanitarian or foreign policy champion, or what? You are truly without a clue. Please cite some of those examples you refer to.You specifically asked me to name ONE thing.
So I named one thing.
And I made a fortune.
But that’s still not a good enough reason for you.
Get lost, loser.Soapy, I forgot to mention the angry Saudis and Merkel. Man this is so easy – like fishing in a barrel. A loser calling me a loser?
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You a fan of the Saudi govt? NSA been spying on Merkel for a decade
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Quote from Thor
You a fan of the Saudi govt? NSA been spying on Merkel for a decade
That was indeed an interesting comment Point Man posted.
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Quote from Point Man
Quote from Lux
Quote from Point Man
[b]”I won’t go into the many, many humanitarian and foreign policy examples” [/b][b] [/b]
Now that is funny!!! Let me see now…….Libya, Egypt, et. al. Is he a humanitarian or foreign policy champion, or what? You are truly without a clue. Please cite some of those examples you refer to.You specifically asked me to name ONE thing.
So I named one thing.
And I made a fortune.
But that’s still not a good enough reason for you.
Get lost, loser.Soapy, I forgot to mention the angry Saudis and Merkel. Man this is so easy – like fishing in a barrel. A loser calling me a loser?
Not sure what your “Saudis” point is, but Egypt and Merkel had it coming.
Merkel should get out of office, stat, or else Germany will get only worse. Merkel’s economic ideology about austerity is a threat to our national security and she deserves to be tapped!!! Are you kidding?
If you think your comment was like shooting fish in a barrel, then you forgot to take off your blindfold first because not only did you miss the fish, you missed the [i]barrel.[/i]
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Quote from Lux
Quote from Point Man
Quote from Lux
Quote from Point Man
[b]”I won’t go into the many, many humanitarian and foreign policy examples” [/b][b] [/b]
Now that is funny!!! Let me see now…….Libya, Egypt, et. al. Is he a humanitarian or foreign policy champion, or what? You are truly without a clue. Please cite some of those examples you refer to.You specifically asked me to name ONE thing.
So I named one thing.
And I made a fortune.
But that’s still not a good enough reason for you.
Get lost, loser.Soapy, I forgot to mention the angry Saudis and Merkel. Man this is so easy – like fishing in a barrel. A loser calling me a loser?
Not sure what your “Saudis” point is, but Egypt and Merkel had it coming.
Merkel should get out of office, stat, or else Germany will get only worse. Merkel’s economic ideology about austerity is a threat to our national security and she deserves to be tapped!!! Are you kidding?
If you think your comment was like shooting fish in a barrel, then you forgot to take off your blindfold first because not only did you miss the fish, you missed the [i]barrel.[/i]
Would love to continue this un-stimulating conversation with you soap, but like the dog who has been having an amorous relationship with a skunk, I have enjoyed about all I can stand. You are delusional and are completely “over the edge”. Get it, over-the-edge? Lemming time. See ya’ captain zero.
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Uh oh once again Pointy stumped when told to defend a view. I am shocked that he flees tail between legs
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Quote from Thor
Uh oh once again Pointy stumped when told to defend a view. I am shocked that he flees tail between legs
Hammerhead, I am tired of communicating with lib lightweights such as yourself. Your “good buddy” soapy was taken to task and he folded like a cheap suit. You lemmings have been taken by your messiah and it is game time for you. Check and mate, inane one. Maybe you can give it a try – name a few of those great accomplishments of the obummer both foreign and domestically. Maybe a little more education at a real school would have helped you two+ pacman stooges. Those distance learning programs really didn’t help y’all. Now go back to sleep and dream of the obummer.
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So I see you still can’t defend or intelligently discuss a view; now go scuttle back under your rock
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Quote from Thor
So I see you still can’t defend or intelligently discuss a view; now go scuttle back under your rock
Hammer, I know that Mjolnir to your forehead plays havoc on your ability to communicate intelligently. Now I will repeat slowly gggggiiiiiiivvvvveee mmmmeeeee ssssoooommmmeee eeeexxxxaaammmpppppllleeesss ooooffff ttttthhhhheeee oooobbbbbuuuuummmmmeeeerrrrsss aaaacccccoooooommmmmpppppllllliiiiissssshhhhhmmmmmeeeeennnnntttttssss. Now that should be easy for an old socialist like yourself. I’m waiting……………… Soapy, you can take a shot at it also.
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Hey Poimty. Don’t expect logic out of the Politbureau. I’m wonderin how they can be on this here board ALL the time an not do any work but when your a member of the ruling elite intellectual class I guess work is beneath you.
Found this on the commies favorite website. Describes them to a T:
[link=http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/10/can_we_finally_stop_pretending_comments.html#disqus_thread]http://www.americanthinke…nts.html#disqus_thread[/link]
Read it and weep. Unless you are a a member of the Politbureau in which case I suggest you don’t read it.
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Quote from Point Man
Quote from Thor
So I see you still can’t defend or intelligently discuss a view; now go scuttle back under your rock
Hammer, I know that Mjolnir to your forehead plays havoc on your ability to communicate intelligently. Now I will repeat slowly gggggiiiiiiivvvvveee mmmmeeeee ssssoooommmmeee eeeexxxxaaammmpppppllleeesss ooooffff ttttthhhhheeee oooobbbbbuuuuummmmmeeeerrrrsss aaaacccccoooooommmmmpppppllllliiiiissssshhhhhmmmmmeeeeennnnntttttssss. Now that should be easy for an old socialist like yourself. I’m waiting……………… Soapy, you can take a shot at it also.
Exhibit A: Damaged goods.
You will soon come to see that ACA will be a prime example of Obama’s success. It makes no sense to debate opinions on the matter; we will soon know for sure.
Otherwise, your childish quip is not worthy of debate.
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Quote from Lux
You will soon come to see that ACA will be a prime example of Obama’s success. It makes no sense to debate opinions on the matter; we will soon know for sure.
Otherwise, your childish quip is not worthy of debate.
“[b][i]If you like your insurance plan, you can keep it. Period.[/i]”[/b] – Barak Obama
I recently ran into the following quote from an infamous Nazi propagandist which basically summarizes Obama’s and Lux’s ruling philosophy:[i][size=”1″][b]It would not be impossible to prove with sufficient repetition and a psychological understanding of the people concerned that a square is in fact a circle. They are mere words, and words can be molded until they clothe ideas and disguise. [/b][/size][/i][size=”0″]-Joseph Goebbels[/size]
[size=”0”].[/size]-
Yes plans issued before passage of PPACA were grandfathered. Plans issued after that staement are not valid. Grandfathered plans that have been cancelled , have been cancelled by the insurance companies, not PPACA. Sure it makes a nice soundbite, but like most refuse emanating from the right it is a patently false statement (but easy for lemmings to repeat)
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Quote from Thor
Yes plans issued before passage of PPACA were grandfathered. Plans issued after that staement are not valid. Grandfathered plans that have been cancelled , have been cancelled by the insurance companies, not PPACA. Sure it makes a nice soundbite, but like most refuse emanating from the right it is a patently false statement (but easy for lemmings to repeat)
As I’ve said several times before, when aldadoc points his finger, he doesn’t even realize he’s pointing it at the mirror.
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Not to mention he seems to favor govt forcing insurance companies to continue to offer those plans. Meanwhile if you really like your plan you can have it again next year as long as you get it before Jan 1. Many insurers will be happy to rip you off again and take your money for an additional year for plans that provide little to no coverage
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Quote from Thor
Not to mention he seems to favor govt forcing insurance companies to continue to offer those plans. Meanwhile if you really like your plan you can have it again next year as long as you get it before Jan 1. Many insurers will be happy to rip you off again and take your money for an additional year for plans that provide little to no coverage
In the very least, aldadoc expects Obama to be able to predict the changes each insurance company will make to their plans.
In truth, there is no lie in Obama’s “if you like your current plan, then you can keep it”. It’s not his fault that insurance companies change what each person’s “current” plan is. And contrary to what many people have been led to believe, insurance companies are under no obligation to cancel such “sub-standard” policies for those who had signed up before ACA was voted into law. But those companies simply cannot offer those policies to anyone [i][u]new[/u] [/i]after the law was enacted. And such restrictions were made clear at that time. There is no “lie” other than this despicable ploy being used by extremists. Once the exchanges are set up, debugged, and start purring like a kitten (as predicted by Cruz, et al.), those red states resistant to the federal plan are going to have a rather rude awakening as each citizen of those states get hit with the full brunt of their state’s destructive ideology.
Of course, insurance companies have assessed their risks and have determined that canceling the sub-standard policies and folding all policies into the current risk pool makes more economic sense (if not more humanitarian sense), and that’s their right in a free market industry. Obama’s truthful “you can keep your current policy” simply refers to fewer people insured by those legacy plans.
Look, you can still play your 33 rpm LPs today, but because music companies have pulled back drastically on LP production, there are fewer people who can enjoy them. But to say someone is lying because a while back they said “If you like buying LPs you can still do that” is misguided and wrong, because music companies made their own more recent unilateral decision to pull back on LP availability. The truth is, the public is still free to purchase LPs if music companies kept printing them.
And so the fact that so many anti-“socialist” maniacs out there claim to advocate “free markets” and yet are making a fortune off our socialistic insurance industry as they complain about all the steps that are being taken to make that industry behave more like other free market companies shows how much hypocrisy is oozing out of every pore in that camp.
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Soapy, you and the hammer are spinning like 2 old crone on a turbo loom.
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Only in Pointy’s world are facts spin and spin “facts” But what else would you expect from a Hannity Limbaugh accolyte
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Latest NBC poll has 24% of Americans favoring repeal given options of “don’t change it”, “slight modification”, “major change”, or “repeal”.
While the rollout is hurting Obama’s poll numbers, there is an opportunity here.
[link=http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/frame_game/2013/10/obamacare_polls_americans_want_to_reform_the_affordable_care_act_not_repeal.html?wpisrc=burger_bar]http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/frame_game/2013/10/obamacare_polls_americans_want_to_reform_the_affordable_care_act_not_repeal.html?wpisrc=burger_bar[/link]
When a reporter asked whether Republicans would like to join in with some Democrats to change the law, Boehner scoffed, There is no way to fix this monstrosity.
The polls dont support that view. Theres a big gap between the publics dissatisfaction and the GOPs full-throated antagonism. Obama is filling that gap.
Hes incorporating the dissatisfaction into his message of fixing, changing, and improving the law. Thats why he [link=http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/10/30/remarks-president-and-governor-deval-patrick-affordable-care-act]went to Boston yesterday[/link] to tout the Massachusetts law on which the Affordable Care Act was modeled. Obama and Gov. Deval Patrick recalled the early flaws in the Massachusetts program and how they were ironed out. Obama also told the story of President Bushs prescription drug program: Once it was the law, everybody pitched in to try to make it work. He conceded Obamacares troubles and promised, We are going to keep working to improve the law.
Obamacares problems could worsen. The public could turn against it. It could be repealed. But if its basic concept is as sound as the Massachusetts programif its addressing a widespread problem and can be cleaned up with technical repairs and policy revisionsthen the public will stick with it. And the GOP, eventually, will become the party of reform, not repeal.-
[i]”The Obama Administration has been claiming that [link=http://health.usnews.com/health-insurance]insurance companies[/link]will be competing for your dollars under the [link=http://health.usnews.com/topics/subjects/affordable_care_act/usnews]Affordable Care Act[/link], but apparently they haven’t surveyed the nation’s top hospitals.[/i]
[i] [/i]
[i]Americans who sign up for Obamacare will be getting a big surprise if they expect to access premium health care that may have been previously covered under their personal policies. Most of the top hospitals will accept insurance from just one or two companies operating under Obamacare.”[/i]
[link=http://health.usnews.com/health-news/hospital-of-tomorrow/articles/2013/10/30/top-hospitals-opt-out-of-obamacare]http://health.usnews.com/…s-opt-out-of-obamacare[/link]
Maybe, just maybe, if you close your eyes really tight and click your heels …-
Goodness
Here is the site for insurance companies accepted by Cleveland Clinic (all four pages)
[link=http://my.clevelandclinic.org/patients-visitors/billing-insurance/accepted-insurance.aspx]http://my.clevelandclinic.org/patients-visitors/billing-insurance/accepted-insurance.aspx[/link]
Here are the insurance companies with plans offered on the exchange
[link=http://www.insurance.ohio.gov/Consumer/Pages/FederalHealthReformFAQs.aspx]http://www.insurance.ohio.gov/Consumer/Pages/FederalHealthReformFAQs.aspx[/link]
Lots of overlap. Yes people will need to comparison shop but that is part of personal responsibility you claim to crave. In network/out of network issues are also nothing new. The critics are really getting lazy-
Hey, Obamacare is really on fire!
We now have evidence that a grand total of 6 people signed up for Obamacare the day of its debut. But I thought the web site was crashing because of the high traffic.
If their lips are moving … Lies, lies, and more lies.
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Quote from aldadoc
Hey, Obamacare is really on fire!
We now have evidence that a grand total of 6 people signed up for Obamacare the day of its debut. But I thought the web site was crashing because of the high traffic.
If their lips are moving … Lies, lies, and more lies.
And where is this “evidence” of which you speak?
[i]”Notes released by the committee’s chairman, Rep. Darrell Issa, R-California, do not include official enrollment statistics and represent an incomplete accounting of the enrollment totals, said Joanne Peters, a Health and Human Services spokeswoman.”[/i]
Aldadoc, are you cherry picking again? Why do you continue to whine like a baby about enrollment numbers when you know full well that a broken web site prevented people from enrolling?
Or are you now in denial that the web site was/is broken?
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What I love about Alda is you show one talking point as patently false and he simply does not defend it, just moves seemlessly on to the next one
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Hammer and soapy, y’all take this stuff way too seriously. This is cyber s$%#, not real life. I have a real life and it does not depend upon the impact of my posts. Y’all should chill out, take a deep breath, and say “I am soapy/hammer and I am a posting addict”. Sitting alone in that big empty house, void of human companionship, pecking out your vile responses is not a healthy thing to do. If you can’t do it alone there is help available. Now to help you “come down” slowly – the obummer is a socialist.
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Can I make an observation? If you have continued this battle over 16 pages of thread, you will never agree. Move on.
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Are you really expecting me to agree with Pointy or Alda. Just need to counter their misinformation and lies with facts
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Quote from Thor
What I love about Alda is you show one talking point as patently false and he simply does not defend it, just moves seemlessly on to the next one
Quote from Thor
Are you really expecting me to agree with Pointy or Alda. Just need to counter their misinformation and lies with facts
The extremists rely on the “let’s see if this one sticks” principle since most of their jibberish has no factual traction to begin with.
Point Man has even gotten to the point where nothing he says ever sticks anymore and so he’s gone on a total fact abstinence diet and now resorts exclusively to name calling and baseless Book of Revelations predictions, relegating himself to mere prodding from the sidelines like a drunken heckler in the back of the audience.
They cite single graphs totally out of context and then completely misinterpret them without realizing the graphs often say the exact opposite of what they claim. They accuse the rest of us of things that, ironically, THEY are guilty of. They complain about policies that help millions of Americans and yet have no other suggestions for an alternate way to solve those same problems other than repeating the same old [i]”every man for himself”[/i] third world philosophy that ends up ruthlessly getting people hungrier, sicker, or dead. They are gullible to the likes of Sean and Rush and consistently vote against their own best interests.
But what astounds me the most is how clueless they are about the error in their ways. Without being able to cite any logic other than blind ideology, they continue to insist they’re right and expect others to just somehow have faith and believe them despite all the facts to the contrary.
Considering the level of education supposedly sitting between the ears of Dubya, Bachmann, Romney, Ryan, and Cruz, etc., along with aldadoc’s infantile perspective of web technology, Point Man’s resorting to name calling, and even Ben Carson’s simple-minded and impossible view of the world, they are all an indictment against our system of education and are the poster children for the Dumbing Of America.
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Quote from Raddocmed
Can I make an observation? If you have continued this battle over 16 pages of thread, you will never agree. Move on.
I think you may be missing the point that it’s very educational to perform a D&C on extremist ideologies. It’s like capturing a zombie and practicing surgery on it instead of using a “viable” organism.
It’s also productive and educational to point out all the holes in the arguments so that the silent readership gets a broader perspective. There is so much cherry picking, spin, fabrication, fear, hate, bigotry, and old fashion paranoia that needs to be pointed out.
Finally, it helps us hone our own perspectives which may start out sketchy but which gain firm conviction the more the debate probes each aspect of an issue.
Frankly, the LAST thing any of us expect to do is convert the other side. Rather, I think most of us are talking to the silent majority in the “audience” more than anyone else. More like two teams of gladiators sparring in the Colosseum, except neither is actually trying to beat the opponent as much as convert the crowd in the sidelines.
At least that’s always been [i]my[/i] main motive in these discussions.
I mean, when has ANYONE ever converted an extremist?
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[b]”I mean, when has ANYONE ever converted an extremist?”[/b]
Soapy,
I bet at least one (1) lib socialist was converted at some time. There is hope for you and hammer yet.-
Yup insurance companies are the good guys here
[link=http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/insurance-companies-misleading-letters-obamacare]http://talkingpointsmemo….ding-letters-obamacare[/link]-
Just keep those myths and faux stories a coming; we’ll keep knocking them back out of the park
[link=http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/11/07/2906471/cancer-patient-wall-street-journal-buy-cheaper-obamacare-policy/]http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/11/07/2906471/cancer-patient-wall-street-journal-buy-cheaper-obamacare-policy/[/link]-
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[link=http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/11/how-states-actively-prevent-people-from-learning-about-healthcare-plans/281227/]http://www.theatlantic.co…althcare-plans/281227/[/link]
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Quote from Raddocmed
Can I make an observation? If you have continued this battle over 16 pages of thread, you will never agree. Move on.
You must be new to OT 😉
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Anyway – That post above got me thinking. My first post in this thread I think stands as pretty darned accurate.
I said:
Linking the ACA funding to debt ceiling or government funding it a high risk political stance that is unlikely to be of net benefit to the GOP.
Yeah, the hard right of the House and guys like Cruz thrive on that stuff, but for their party overall it is a big loser.
[link=http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-26/drop-the-disastrous-plan-to-defund-obamacare.html]http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-26/drop-the-disastrous-plan-to-defund-obamacare.html[/link]
[blockquote][i][/i]
The plan is to oppose any bill to fund the government or increase the debt limit that also provides money for putting the health-care law in place. Because Republicans control the House, Democrats cant continue borrowing or paying for government operations without Republican support. So, conservatives say, Republicans should insist on defunding Obamacare as the price of that support.
The chance that Democrats would go along — would give up on their signature legislative initiative of the last decade soon after having won the presidential election and gained Senate and House seats — approaches zero percent. So if Republicans stay firm in this demand, the result will be either a government shutdown or a partial shutdown combined with a debt default.
Either would be highly unpopular, and each party would blame the other. The public, however, would almost certainly blame Republicans, for five reasons.
First, Republicans are less popular than the Democrats and thus all else equal will lose partisan finger-pointing contests. Second, the executive has natural advantages over a group of legislators in a crisis atmosphere. Third, people will be naturally inclined to assume that the more anti-government party must be responsible. Fourth, some Republicans will say that government shutdowns or defaults are just what the country needs, and those quotes will affect the image of all Republicans. And fifth, the news media will surely side with the Democrats.
[b]Bringing the federal government to a standstill would confirm the Democrats caricatures that conservatives are reflexively hostile to all government. And Republicans would be doing it without proposing a plausible replacement for Obamacare. So Democrats would be able to say that Republicans were crippling the government and credit markets in order to take health insurance away from 30 million people.
While Democrats would stay unified, Republicans would fracture as their standing in the polls dropped and negative news coverage continued.
When they inevitably lost the fight, they would be more divided, unpopular and demoralized than before, and the cause of repealing Obamacare would look more like the hobbyhorse of incompetent fanatics. [/b]
[/blockquote]
Yep — sounds about right.
As for the original topic title “Sentiment to Defund Obamacare Grows”… That has been shown to be an incorrect premise. The sentiment to defund ACA remains strong among a minority of far-right conservatives but is still a minority opinion and is not growing.
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Hey Bandersnatch, the obummer has confirmed our suspicions…..he has now admitted that he is a [b][style=”color: #800000;”]liar[/style][/b]. Anything for a vote from the “entitled ones”. Promise a democrite free stuff and they will be your friend eternally. You already know the dem voting bloc consists of……………………………………………………!!!
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Yes an apology for not allowing you to be swindled by the insurance industry. Why is the right so scared about letting folks have actual acess to data?
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Trade being swindled by the insurance industry to being swindled by the government?
No thanks.
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Quote from Point Man
Promise a democrite free stuff and they will be your friend eternally.
Again you’ve lost track of the simple open fact that red states are, by far, the beneficiaries of “free stuff” from the federal government. And they don’t seem to be complaining about that.
Point Man gives us yet another example of a conservative extremist not realizing he’s shouting into the mirror.
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Soapy, you gotta’ be on food stamps!! You are such a democrite.
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[b]Hey Bandersnatch, the obummer has confirmed our suspicions..[/b]
Reminds me of a line from the water boy………………..Whatsa matta boy you to to st-stupid
WOW Im glad I no longer live in rural america-
[link=http://xpostfactoid.blogspot.com/2013/11/subtext-to-wapo-healthcaregov-disaster.html]http://xpostfactoid.blogspot.com/2013/11/subtext-to-wapo-healthcaregov-disaster.html[/link]
Sabotage and timidity, not a good combination-
[link=http://charlotte.cbslocal.com/2013/11/08/rocky-start-for-north-carolina-health-care-exchanges/]http://charlotte.cbslocal…health-care-exchanges/[/link]
Incompetence and deception, not a good combination for a health care plan or the president.-
Hey Mike why didn’t North Carolina set up its own exchange with the federal funds it could get? Why did so many “state’s rights” Governers submit to the federal government to run their exchanges…why the dependency culture. If you read my link one of the PPACA greatest mistakes was that it did not fund the set-up of the federal exchange, presumably because the assumption was that states would want the freedom to do it themselves and make it work best for their citizens. For political reasons many governers preferred chaos and non-functionality. Moreover, an oversight (or poor planning) like this would have lead to funding measures for the federal exchanges. That is how it has worked in the past. Sadly, it looks like Obama and the Dems were too timid or scared to ask for such funding rather than standing up and demanding that if states did not spend their funds on state exchanges that those funds be re-allocated to setting up the federal exchanges. Republicans are in no position to complain about the outcome if they refused to set up their own exchanges; they are in reality getting exactly what they wanted.
BTW your link shows the following: there are problems with the website (already known); BCBS is working with the govt to fix their specific issues (cooperation-what a novel concept); over 1000 people were able to access and sign up for this one insurer in the first two weeks (enrollment is still a problem); and there are scammers out there trying to cash in (I guess that money you gave to your long lost Nigerian relative is also Obama’s fault).
The solution is to fix in a bipartisan manner and make it work, then again Republicans aren’t interested in a govt that works (and yet Republicans in the House and Senate manage to get paid for doing nothing–usually called freeloading) -
[b]Incompetence and deception[/b]
Thats a description for the entire Healthcare system from the insurance industry to the drug compaies to the Hospital administration
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Quote from kpack123
[b]Incompetence and deception[/b]
Thats a description for the entire Healthcare system from the insurance industry to the drug compaies to the Hospital administrationWhich, of course, is not a reason to defund it or shut it down.
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Sour grapes is all I see from the Obamabots. When will you ever learn?
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[link=http://www.gallup.com/poll/165776/uninsured-americans-ignoring-health-exchange-sites.aspx]http://www.gallup.com/pol…th-exchange-sites.aspx[/link]
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Quote from radmike
[link=http://www.gallup.com/poll/165776/uninsured-americans-ignoring-health-exchange-sites.aspx]http://www.gallup.com/pol…th-exchange-sites.aspx[/link]
I don’t understand your persistence with this. Surely you must know by now that human psychology delays necessity until it is upon us. Time after time humans have shown that they will wait until the last possible moment to engage in something like this. It happened with Romneycare and it will happen with ACA. It’s just too early for people to get motivated to enroll regardless of whether the web site works, simply because it’s still early and the deadline isn’t until next year.
Wake up and stop fabricating your ridiculous fear mongering.
You are coming across very foolish right about now.
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What sour grapes? Why doesn’t the right want to admit they are sabotaging the PPACA if it is for the good of the country? What do they fear?
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Why will you not admit that Obama lied in order to get a bill passed that no one had read which is becoming more and more unpopular?
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What was the lie? That if you liked your insurance you could keep it? Yeah he should have been more nuanced about it. Should have informed Americans that every year insurance companies drop plans. Should have more clearly exposed the pre-existing fraudulent plans. So yeah he tried to keep it a simple soundbite when reality was much more complex. What is striking however is that the people they trot out as having insurance plans they “like” that are dropped are better off in the exchanges and the stories quietly go away with just a little bit of research.
Here I thought Republicans were all about comparison shopping and personal responsibility but I guess they would rather the populace be lazy and accepting that they have a good insurance plan cuz their insurance agent says so-
A lie is a lie (I guess that depends on what the meaning of the word “is” is)
Nanny state do-gooders who think they know what is best for me but are unable to tell the truth is what we got. Yet they exempt themselves.
A treasury sec who doesn’t pay taxes.
An attorney general who lies to congress
IRS officials who plead the fifth
A president who loves himself and takes credit for things he never did and claims ignorance when things go south
And a veep who is dumb as a rock
These qualities seem to describe the low info voters who put them in office.-
Which Bush administration are you referring to; or is this Reagan? Your last entry suggests Bush I with Quayle
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Quote from radmike
Sour grapes is all I see from the Obamabots. When will you ever learn?
You are free to make up whatever faux reality you can conjure up if it reduces your heart palpitations.
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Quote from Thor
Which Bush administration are you referring to; or is this Reagan? Your last entry suggests Bush I with Quayle
Hammerboy, leave President Bush and President Reagan out of it. They actually led the nation as great leaders. Unlike the obummer who without any leadership experience has talked and lied us into a state of confusion, anger, immorality and loss of Constitutional rights. Go bummer!!!
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Quote from Point Man
Quote from Thor
Which Bush administration are you referring to; or is this Reagan? Your last entry suggests Bush I with Quayle
Hammerboy, leave President Bush and President Reagan out of it. They actually led the nation as great leaders. Unlike the obummer who without any leadership experience has talked and lied us into a state of confusion, anger, immorality and loss of Constitutional rights. Go bummer!!!
More fluff from the shadows on the walls of his dark cave.
Is that really all you have left, Pointless?-
Angry angry republicans painting themselves into a smaller and smaller corner
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Why do we even elect a new president if they run on principles to fix things but never actually take responsibility for anything they do? The purpose of the President is to run the country, not to whine and keep pointing to someone other than himself
What a joke that people still defend this bozo-
They defend him to defend their poor choices.
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I don’t know maybe it’s just defense so people can get healthcare coverage and
not be denied if they have a pre existing condition
Not lose their home and go bankrupt if they get a serious illness
I realize there is a lot of angst over this and a lot of politics. The rollout was very inept
But in the end the republicans are playing a losing hand. They look angry selfish and heartless and they are on the wrong side of history
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Quote from kpack123
I don’t know maybe it’s just defense so people can get healthcare coverage and
not be denied if they have a pre existing condition
Not lose their home and go bankrupt if they get a serious illness
I realize there is a lot of angst over this and a lot of politics. The rollout was very inept
But in the end the republicans are playing a losing hand. They look angry selfish and heartless and they are on the wrong side of history
Pacman, admit this social experiment is a miserable disaster. You can’t defend the indefensible. obummercare is imploding… Most intelligent liberals are tired of the obummers lack of leadership and are tired of defending the indefensible.
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The Obamacare dead-enders will never admit defeat. It will have to come in the form of a huge tax bill.
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Quote from aldadoc
The Obamacare dead-enders will never admit defeat. It will have to come in the form of a huge tax bill.
It appears that is the obummers plan since obummercare is such a disaster and will “break the bank”. Apparently ol’ harry, et al. are pushing for a tax increase, but they want to call it usage taxes or other lies. I just hope the Conservatives have enough appendage to say no.
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The Obamacare dead-enders will never admit defeat. It will have to come in the form of a huge tax bill.
We shall see Mr WMD
We will see what happens. In reality obamacare is a means to insure people. Why republicans are against this is beyond me
I understand tweaking it, fixing it, but trying to talk it away is not a good long term strategy
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The Obamacare score card YTD:
Exchanges sign-ups – 49,000
Insurance cancellations: 5,000,000
Net loss: 4,951,000 policies.
This qualifies a man-made disaster. Are you willing to wait until 50 million Americans lose their insurance before admitting being wrong? Are you liberals that ideologically rigid?-
All you need to know…
Medicine is the keystone of the arch of socialism.
[link=http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/104630.Vladimir_Ilyich_Lenin]Vladimir Ilyich Lenin[/link]-
Quote from CardiacEvent
All you need to know…
Medicine is the keystone of the arch of socialism.
[link=http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/104630.Vladimir_Ilyich_Lenin]Vladimir Ilyich Lenin[/link]So you see yourself as part of that keystone???
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BTW, that “quote” sounds invented, something you’d find in some paranoid crazy right-wing email.
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Quote from CardiacEvent
All you need to know…
Medicine is the keystone of the arch of socialism.
[link=http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/104630.Vladimir_Ilyich_Lenin]Vladimir Ilyich Lenin[/link]Oh for God’s sake, talk about cherry-picking half truths taken out of context.
That’s not what Lenin said! He sais “SOCIALIZED medicine is the keystone to the arch of the SOCIALIZED STATE”.ACA is no more socialized than any other form of insurance since its all a simple redistribution of wealth; a redistribution that you extremists seem to have no problem exploiting for your own personal gain.
You’re really digging a very deep hole for yourself here by trying invoke Lenin. What’s next? Stalin? Hitler?
In fact, you’re sounding a bit like Ted Cruz-McCarthy at this point.
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Fact is, even correcting the “quote,” Lenin never said any such thing.
It is an ignorant lie.-
More reasons to shut down Obamacare.
[link=http://www.nationalreview.com/article/363699/truth-about-navigators-john-fund]http://www.nationalreview.com/article/363699/truth-about-navigators-john-fund[/link]-
haha John fund
I saw him on a subway once
What a wormy man-
Can’t dispute the message? Attack the messenger.
That’s all you got?
You are basically conceding the point.-
Didn’t O’Keefe have to pay a $100K fine for lying the 1st time?
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[b]Can’t dispute the message? Attack the messenger. [/b]
[b]That’s all you got? [/b]
[b]You are basically conceding the point. [/b]
I didn’t read it. I know enough about him to know he has a biased agenda so reading his drivel is meaningless to me-
Head in sand syndrome.
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Sorry Mike, but we can’t share in your delusional arguments. Make a cogent argument then we can discuss.
Enjoy your videos. -
[b]Head in sand syndrome. [/b]
More like the cry wolf syndrome
I have seen republicans tell me that Iraq had stockpiles of WMD’s, That we had to fight a 10 trillion dollar war because of Mushroom clouds. I have heard doom and gloom about Obama from day one
And you knowwhat……………..They havent been right about anything in over a 2 decades
So why should I waste a minute on biased drivel
You guys are nuts. -
Quote from kpack123
[b]Head in sand syndrome. [/b]
More like the cry wolf syndrome
I have seen republicans tell me that Iraq had stockpiles of WMD’s, That we had to fight a 10 trillion dollar war because of Mushroom clouds. I have heard doom and gloom about Obama from day one
And you knowwhat……………..They havent been right about anything in over a 2 decades
So why should I waste a minute on biased drivel
You guys are nuts.
[b]Bush’s Fault Syndrome[/b]
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This fraud is merely a microcosm of the Obama administration.
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[b]Bush’s Fault Syndrome[/b]
I guess if thats what you mean by being tired of the manipulations lies and an unnecessary 10 trillion dollar war.
Count me in -
You’ve been sleeping for a long time………its 2013.
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Yeah things are just so much worse arent they
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people expect everybody to be an IT specialists like Obama is one of the few Presidents that use blackberry/ the internet and they had to devote most of their time to make sure that the supreme court upheld the act
the peanut complainers need to give it a rest but then they will drum up some Benghazi problem
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Quote from Lux
Quote from CardiacEvent
All you need to know…
Medicine is the keystone of the arch of socialism.
[link=http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/104630.Vladimir_Ilyich_Lenin]Vladimir Ilyich Lenin[/link]Oh for God’s sake, talk about cherry-picking half truths taken out of context.
That’s not what Lenin said! He sais “SOCIALIZED medicine is the keystone to the arch of the SOCIALIZED STATE”.ACA is no more socialized than any other form of insurance since its all a simple redistribution of wealth; a redistribution that you extremists seem to have no problem exploiting for your own personal gain.
You’re really digging a very deep hole for yourself here by trying invoke Lenin. What’s next? Stalin? Hitler?
In fact, you’re sounding a bit like Ted Cruz-McCarthy at this point.
No, Jack, I think YOU and your Communist buddies just fell into the hole. You’ve just admitted that Lenin’s ideal of Socialized Medicine really, really really important to Socialists. AND that ACA IS a redistribution of wealth. Regular private NON GOVERNMENT FORCED Insurance ISN”T!!!!! Everybody pays in and gambles with the insuranc company that their gonna get sick, and the company is bettin that you won’t! So its redistributing from well to sick, but NOT from rich to poor.
So sorry your commmunist wet dream ACA is impolding in your face.-
Quote from CardiacEvent
You’ve just admitted that Lenin’s ideal of Socialized Medicine really, really really important to Socialists. AND that ACA IS a redistribution of wealth. Regular private NON GOVERNMENT FORCED Insurance ISN”T!!!!! Everybody pays in and gambles with the insuranc company that their gonna get sick, and the company is bettin that you won’t! So its redistributing from well to sick, but NOT from rich to poor.
So sorry your commmunist wet dream ACA is impolding in your face.
Huh? Where have I “admitted” anything about what’s important to socialists?!
And “regular private non government” insurance is most certainly a redistribution of wealth. As a matter of fact, ALL insurance is a redistribution of wealth, BY DEFINITION! It’s disingenuous of you to single out ACA as being somehow unique in that regard. If anything, ACA is LESS of a socialist construct because of the increased emphasis it places on free market competition compared to the traditional insurance industry.
And where do you get your twisted logic that paying for an insurance policy somehow means you are gambling that you are “gonna get sick”. I have insurance not because I expect to get sick. I simply have it IN CASE I get sick, but I certainly don’t expect to get sick. Do you have car insurance because you expect to get into an accident?! In truth, those who choose NOT to have insurance are the ones gambling that they will NOT get sick.
I don’t understand the distinction you are trying to conjure up between “healthy to sick” vs.”rich to poor”. It’s still a redistribution of wealth regardless of how you define the groups that participate in the redistribution.
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didn’t think you would be able to understand. NonSocialists will get it though and that’s whats important.
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Can’t dispute the message? Attack the messenger.
That’s all you got?
You are basically conceding the point.
Again-
I will dispute the message. An allegation of fraud by navigators in a single office is nowhere near justification to eliminate the PPACA.
I also, however, reserve the right to challenge the allegation based on the bias and lack of credibility of the reporter.-
You’ve got it backwards, Mike. You want us to disprove the lie made by a liar.
The messenger is a liar. There is no message beyond that.-
The messenger is a liar? Like Obama. We must now ignore everything he says?
You are pathetic.
Expect more videos.
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Quote from radmike
The messenger is a liar? Like Obama. We must now ignore everything he says?
You are pathetic.
Expect more videos.Hey Mike, do you suppose we might be able to find more than a handful of physician groups that scam Medicare and insurance companies? Does that mean we should shut down the healthcare industry?
Your continued lack of logic is MAYBE worthy in the comment section at the bottom of articles at Faux, but not here.
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Again, you ignore the issue. Please come up to speed. Your defense of the indefensible is absurd but you press on.
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Keep moving. Nothing to see here. Ignore the stench.
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