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Sentiment to defund Obamacare grows
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[link=http://www.politicususa.com/2013/08/14/tea-party-republican-senator-admits-impossible-defund-obamacare.html]http://www.politicususa.com/2013/08/14/tea-party-republican-senator-admits-impossible-defund-obamacare.html[/link]
[b]Tea Party Republican Senator Admits That Its Impossible To Defund Obamacare[/b]
Tea Party darling, Sen. Ron Johnson (R-WI) has some bad news for his fellow Republicans. Johnson admitted that as long as Harry Reid is Majority Leader and Barack Obama is president, it will be impossible to defund Obamacare.
According to the [link=http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/ron-johnson-other-republicans-says-government-shutdown-unlikely-b9974939z1-219455251.html]Milwaukee Journal Sentinel[/link], Johnson burst the defund Obamacare bubble, Even if we were to not pass the continuing resolution (to fund the federal government), youre not going to be able to defund Obamacare, absent of President Obama signing a law, which I think is highly unlikely. So I appreciate the fact that theyve raised the issue. But defunding Obamacare, with President Obama in the White House and Harry Reid in the Senate, I think is next to impossible.
Sen. Johnson isnt someone who is prone to bouts of rational and reality based thought, so this admission from him is a bit of surprise.
Ron Johnson was correct. Republicans can huff and puff and stomp their feet all they want, but there is zero chance that they will be able to defund the ACA. The Republicans who are championing the shutdown to defund scheme really want to use a government shutdown as a campaign platform in 2014 and 2016.
People like Sen.Ted Cruz are eyeing a government shutdown as a way to raise his national profile and set himself for a run at the Republican nomination in 2016.
It doesnt matter to these people that there is no chance that the ACA will be defunded. The Republicans who are pushing for a government shutdown think that tying it to defunding the ACA is good politics. Reality doesnt enter into their political calculus.
Republicans need to win both the presidency and capture 60 Senate seats to defund Obamacare. The odds of these two things both happening are slim and none. Even a tea party drone like Sen. Ron Johnson understands that the ACA is here to stay.-
Its not just that….most of the funding for PPACA is not discetionary ie they can’t pass a law funding the govt but not PPACA so the only way to do it is to shut the govt down for a long long time
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Wondering why none of the hard core right wingers are commenting on solutions
I’m thinking probably because no talking points memo out on that topic
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Moving towards, seeking or finding solutions for the Country would reflect well on Obama, therefore there will be no attempt towards solutions, even Republican solutions by the Republican Party.
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bait much?
You are something.-
As we thought no solutions
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Here’s an idea I heard somewhere that would work. Put in tort reform, and indemnify doctors and hospitals that treat poor people for free. I’d sign up. Less CYA medicine, less government, less happy lawyers. Good times all around.
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Quote from CardiacEvent
Here’s an idea I heard somewhere that would work. Put in tort reform, and indemnify doctors and hospitals that treat poor people for free. I’d sign up. Less CYA medicine, less government, less happy lawyers. Good times all around.
OK – So from the right a couple of time now we’ve got tort reform recommendations. I think almost all of us will agree that is important….. but.. it’s not the end of the discussion.
Do you have any policy recommendation to decrease the number of uninsured?
Would you recommend any policy, and if so what, to address americans who cannot afford/obtain health insurance in the market place and do not get health care from their employer?
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I agree with tort reform for lots of reasons, but it will save little money as evidenced in medical cost in states that have adopted caps/medical courts. So it not as solution to health care cost or access.
Do the righties note the irony that everyone of their solutions also “federalize” solutions and allow the federal govt to take over a new segment of the private sector?
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Quote from CardiacEvent
Here’s an idea I heard somewhere that would work. Put in tort reform, and indemnify doctors and hospitals that treat poor people for free. I’d sign up. Less CYA medicine, less government, less happy lawyers. Good times all around.
I’m curious what rationale you have for that stipulation. Are you quite sure the poor patient who couldn’t sue even though the wrong kidney was removed would agree that it’s [i]”good times all around”[/i]?
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Tort reform and ……………………….
Quote from Thor
As we thought no solutions
[image]http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4wvurWv5x1qaisajo1_400.jpg[/image]
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Is this the Rubin (WPs version of Aldadoc) of whom you speak
[i][i]Jennifer Rubin[/i]. Have [b]Fred Hiatt[/b], your editorial page editorwho I like, admire, and respectfire opinion blogger [b]Jennifer Rubin[/b]. Not because shes conservative, but because shes just plain bad. She doesnt travel within a hundred miles of [i]Post[/i] standards. She parrots and peddles every silly right-wing theory to come down the pike in transparent attempts to get Web hits. Her analysis of the conservative movement, which is a worthwhile and important beat that the [i]Post[/i] should treat more seriously on its national pages, is shallow and predictable. Her columns, at best, are political pornography; they get a quick but sure rise out of the right, but you feel bad afterward. [/i]
And she is often wrong, and rarely acknowledges it. She was oh-so-wrong about [b]Mitt Romney[/b], week after week writing embarrassing flattery about his 2012 campaign, calling almost every move he made brilliant, and guaranteeing that he would trounce Barack Obama. When he lost, the next day she savaged him and his campaign with treachery, saying he was the worst candidate with the worst staff, ever. She was wrong about the Norway shootings being acts of al-Qaida. She was wrong about [b]Chuck Hagel[/b] being an anti-Semite. And does she apologize? Nope.
Rubin was the No. 1 source of complaint mail about any single Post staffer while I was ombudsman, and Im leaving out the organized email campaigns against her by leftie groups like Media Matters. Thinking conservatives didnt like her, thinking moderates didnt like her, government workers who knew her arguments to be unfair didnt like her. Dump her like a dull tome on the Amazon Bargain Books page.[i] [/i]
[i][i][link=http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/2013/08/14/ombo-sauce-advice-for-jeff-bezos-from-the-posts-former-in-house-critic/]http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/2013/08/14/ombo-sauce-advice-for-jeff-bezos-from-the-posts-former-in-house-critic/[/link][/i][/i]-
It is just this type of thinking that has brought the Washington Post to the edge of extinction. The leftist editors want the entire editorial staff marching in lockstep with Dear Leader.
Dana Milbank, Eugene Robinson et al are a joke and an embarrassment to journalism. They have one or two lone conservative voices and they want to silence it. George Orwell would have been proud of his predictions.
No mention of how totally wrong the liberal WaPo editorial board has been on almost all issues, including Valery Plame, Obamacare, sequester, stimulus, anthropogenic global warming, liberal solutions etc, etc. The elite, empowered WaPO journalists just got a reprieve from joblessness and irrelevance from Bezos. They should take heed and not blow their second chance, but I have no doubt that they will blow it by reverting to to their partisan ways. The left props up its own, even when they have no real value. They require idealogue sugar daddies like Soros in order to stay afloat and to propagate propaganda. They may not know it, but this is the beginning of the end of their tightly controlled reign of influence by censorship.
BTW, Chuck Hagel really is an incompetent, antisemite idiot.-
Quote from aldadoc
It is just this type of thinking that has brought the Washington Post to the edge of extinction. The leftist editors want the entire editorial staff marching in lockstep with Dear Leader. Dana Milbank,
Eugene Robinson et al are a joke and an embarrassment to journalism. They have one or two lone conservative voices and they want to silence it. George Orwell would have been proud of his predictions.No mention of how wrong the liberal editorial board has been on almost all issues, including Valery Plame, Obamacare, sequester, stimulus, anthreopogenic global warming, liberal solutions etc, etc. The elite, empowered journalists just got a reprieve from joblessness and irrelevance from Bezos. The left props up its own, even when they have no real value. They may not know it, but this is the beginning of the end of their tightly controlled influence and censorship.
BTW, Chuck Hagel really is an incompetent, antisemite idiot.
You’re living in the past, aldadoc.
And I don’t have any problem with that; there’s nothing wrong with us reminiscing.
Just don’t impose it on the rest of us.
And I think it would be the neocons and Tea Partiers that would have Orwell rolling in his grave.
But that’s just my opinion.-
Alda thanks for proving my point
Off the topic of my head Kraut, Will, Gerson, Thiessen, Parker, Diehl, Hiatt all conservatives…so that’s at least 7 along with the worst hack and laughingstock Rubin
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[link=http://www.politico.com/story/2013/08/newt-gingrich-gop-health-care-plan-95540.html]http://www.politico.com/story/2013/08/newt-gingrich-gop-health-care-plan-95540.html[/link]
[h1]Newt Gingrich: No GOP health care plan[/h1]I will bet you, for most of you, you go home in the next two weeks when your members of Congress are home, and you look them in the eye and you say, What is your positive replacement for Obamacare? They will have zero answer,
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Where’d right wing posters go?
Kpack must be right, no new talking points outrage from Fox & Limbaugh. Must be trying to regroup against all the good news.
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They can do nothing but throw stones and complain.
No solutions just complaints-
Wow, Jennifer Rubin on the Heritage poll calling for Republicans to defund Obamacare & shut down the government. She thinks it irresponsible!
[link=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2013/08/15/heritages-junk-poll/]http://www.washingtonpost…5/heritages-junk-poll/[/link]
I have made the case that the Heritage Foundation and its sister institution Heritage Action have left intellectual integrity and political sanity behind in the rush for visibility and fundraising bucks. There is no better example of that than some terribly dishonest polling done to promote the fruitless effort to defund Obamacare by threatening to shut down the government.
Heritage Action polled this question: If there was an effort in Congress to temporarily halt funding for the health care law, which of the following is the president most likely to do. . .? Voters were given two options: President Obama would compromise or hed insist on having it his way. More than 63 percent said hed want to have it his way. Then the poll asked in order to get President Obama to agree to at least have a time out on implementing the health care law and its full effects would you approve or disapprove of a temporary slowdown in non-essential government operations, which still left all essential government services operating Lo and behold with that wording about 59 percent agreed.
This is nonsense of course. Republicans would have to shut down the government and be willing to do it for as long as it took, hoping the president would cave. And of course no definition of non-essential is given. The question asked has nothing to do with reality, yet in its press release Heritage Action pronounced that their polls show the idea of defunding Obamacare is broadly supported. Moreover, the potential of a partial government shutdown does little to dampen the desire to stop the implementation of Obamacare. Um, not really. Government shutdown wasnt part of the question.[b]The poll is a pure advocacy poll, intended to drive a certain result by monkeying around with the question and the pool of respondents.[/b]
[b]If anything it shows that if you ask a distorted question you can get evidence that ultra-safe districts wont flip to the other party. Beyond that, the poll is frankly nonsense.[/b]
When people I thought were crazy Republicans start criticizing the “real” crazy Republicans…
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Quote from Frumious
Wow, Jennifer Rubin on the Heritage poll calling for Republicans to defund Obamacare & shut down the government. She thinks it irresponsible!
[link=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2013/08/15/heritages-junk-poll/]http://www.washingtonpost…5/heritages-junk-poll/[/link]
[b]The poll is a pure advocacy poll, intended to drive a certain result by monkeying around with the question and the pool of respondents.[/b]
Many conservative journalists and academics are very concerned that Jim DeMint is destroying the intellectual reputation of the work of the Heritage Foundation and are actively challenging his positions. Since he took over many of their leading policy people have left the institution due to the turn from conservative thinking to overt political advocacy.
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The Doctor DeMint-o Show!
He’s representing the real lunatic fringe of the GOP. For several decades now (Goldwater?), the GOP thought they could use the lunatics & keep them under control. Except now the lunatics are running the asylums.
Which is more appropo, “Live by the sword…” or “Hoist by their own petard.”
I think the petard is the more appropriate.
[link=http://karws.gso.uri.edu/jfk/conspiracy_theory/the_paranoid_mentality/the_paranoid_style.html]http://karws.gso.uri.edu/…he_paranoid_style.html[/link]
[b] [/b][b]American politics has often been an arena for angry minds. In recent years we have seen angry minds at work mainly among extreme right-wingers, who have now demonstrated in the Goldwater movement how much political leverage can be got out of the animosities and passions of a small minority. But behind this I believe there is a style of mind that is far from new and that is not necessarily right-wind. I call it the paranoid style simply because no other word adequately evokes the sense of heated exaggeration, suspiciousness, and conspiratorial fantasy that I have in mind. [/b]
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[link=http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2013/08/conservatives-revolt-obamacare-shutdown.php]http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2013/08/conservatives-revolt-obamacare-shutdown.php[/link]
[h1]Conservatives Revolt As GOP Tries To Calm Obamacare Shutdown Mania[/h1]
The Senate Conservatives Fund, a tea party group founded by former Sen. Jim DeMint, planned to [link=http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/senate-conservatives-fund-to-make-mcconnell-feel-heat]launch a statewide campaign[/link] targeting Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY), who is up for re-election next year, and aimed at making him feel the heat over Obamacare. The Kentuckian recently [link=http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/mcconnell-government-shutdown-wont-stop-obamacare]observed[/link] that a government shutdown wont stop Obamacare.
Meanwhile, FreedomWorks has been keeping a [link=http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/jwithrow/does-your-senator-stand-with-mike-lee-against-obam]tally[/link] of where GOP lawmakers stand on the issue. And Heritage Actions CEO Michael Needham questioned the fortitude of House Republicans for backing away on the Obamacare shutdown push.
Republican leaders have sought to pull their members back from the brink and impress upon them that the strategy is doomed to fail, and that not even a government shutdown would stop funding for vast chunks of Obamacare that arent subject to the annual appropriations process. And theyre correct: in order to actually postpone or weaken the core elements of law, President Obama would have to sign legislation that was passed by both chambers of Congress. Neither he nor Democrats have any intention of letting that happen. To persuade them to let the shutdown hostage go, senior Republicans have floated the idea of instead [link=http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2013/08/republicans-obamacare-debt-limit.php]taking the debt ceiling hostage[/link] and threatening to let the country default if Democrats dont agree to demands like unwinding Obamacare and dollar-for-dollar spending cuts.
But theyre facing a world of hurt from the conservative base.
All of this makes it harder for Republicans to avoid a shutdown without compromising their standing among the conservative base. If nothing else, it raises the bar on the sorts of demands theyll have to make, and the brinkmanship theyll have to engage in, when it comes time to raise the countrys borrowing limit later this fall. House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) has already made [link=http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2013/08/five-obstacles-shutdown-default.php?ref=fpa]unrealistically high promises[/link] to his members regarding the fiscal battles and the added pressure of the shutdown threat complicates his already tenuous strategy.
This is like an awesome GOP playbook of ineptitude. Wanna make the IRS, NSA, and Benghazi disappear? Come to the brink on a government shutdown.
Wanna lost seats in the 2014 midterms (that you currently have the upper hand on)? Primary the f*ck out of the moderates in a highly publicized intra-party squabble.-
RNC boycotts CNN & NBC. Who is next?
This keeps up the only channel covering the Republicans will be Fox. And whomever the Koch bros can buy.-
What is conservatism these days? What do Republicans stand for.
Anything Obama is for, conservatives and Republicans are against. Period. That includes all the things the Bush Administration put in place that Obama continued.-
Quote from Frumious
What is conservatism these days? What do Republicans stand for.
You are seeing a highly idealistic wing of the GOP come forward over the last few years. It really does feel a lot like the Goldwater era.
William F. Buckley wrote of conservatism “”Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.”That’s pretty much where the GOP is right now. But thus far a big chunk seem willing to pay the cost for their idealism, which is generally [i]not[/i] a poltical winning strategy.
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Quote from dergon
Quote from Frumious
What is conservatism these days? What do Republicans stand for.
You are seeing a highly idealistic wing of the GOP come forward over the last few years. It really does feel a lot like the Goldwater era.
William F. Buckley wrote of conservatism “”Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.”
That’s pretty much where the GOP is right now. But thus far a big chunk seem willing to pay the cost for their idealism, which is generally [i]not[/i] a poltical winning strategy.
Funny you should post that quote. We are now in the thick of Obama and all the other 60’s and 70’s leftist revolutionaries imposing THEIR idealism and ideology on the rest of us and making us pay for it. And for them, at least for now, it IS a politically winning strategy because they can pretty easily find enough doofuses out there who want MY money to pay for THEIR needs, and enough deluded doo-gooders to think that its a good idea to take stuff from me and give to other people as long as the doo-gooders are left alone to bask in their self-deluded goodness. Nice as long as MY money lasts, isn’t it?
I think its time I blow back out of this lovely den of socialist radiology. Are all radiologists and physics-educated PACS administrators communinst? This board is pretty much the Comrade Frumious and Comrade Lux show, and they have vomited hundreds and hundreds of posts even in the coupla weeks I’ve loitered this time. Guess when the whole world is depending on you to push the Socialist cause, you gotta take the time to educate everybody, and your real job just isn’t anywhere near as important. Its become nothing more than the two of them, with the occasional expendable red-shirt, battling the evil forces of Republicanism, capitalism, globalconfusionwarmingphuquedupscience deniars, and racists. And everything ends with the two of them High-Fiving each other as to how well the’ve smacked down the infidel this time.
Enjoy your little delusional world, boys. I’m going back to mine, but at least they all know me there.-
[b]THEIR idealism and ideology on the rest of us and making us pay for it.[/b]
Funny I feel like we are paying for The Republicans Multi trillion dollar was. Just like Vietnam disabled the economy in the early mid 70’s The War for Iraqi freedom funded by US taxpayors and the Financial crisis caused by lax conservative style regulation has caused the collpase of the economy in 2008 under GW Bush and the stagnation that we are just now working out of
The constant reference to communism and socialism are the most amusing. You guys don’t even know what it means
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Note pointy in cardiac cannot defend their side so they simply counter attack “Ideas? we don’t need no stinkin’ ideas”
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just curious but who are the other delusional people in your world
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Anyone who does not agree with him.
Dergon, you are spot on. Argument, except for Monty Python skit, requires some informative exchange of ideas. I can’t recall Cardiac ever making a lucid argument. It’s always communists and conspiracies with him, not an argument to be found. This recent post included where you would think he’d try instead of just hurling ineffective invective.
My kingdom for a nail(ed argument with ideas & facts) from the Right.
Still nothing from the Right but crickets & hot wind.
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Be careful what you ask for in Mistrad. He was becoming a Barely clone when he dropped off. He had a reason to leave.
Maybe the Right is feeling frustrated that reality is not going their way.
Back to Hofstadter & paranoid politics.
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Quote from Noah’sArk
just curious but who are the other delusional people in your world
OMG, you know it’s time to take cover when even the mild-tempered [i]Noah[/i] starts getting feisty!
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wouldn’t you be curious who the peeps are that inhabit his world??? is Karl Rove in there??? I mean at some point you have to say well I have been wrong how many times????? I think Aldi admitted the miss on Obama’s re-election but really who are the people they have in THEIR world.
Did anyone see the new Matt Damon flick with Jodi Foster. It was really not a good feeling to see Foster play such a repugnant character. My mother used to say to me that my generation is the most coddled group of people…where we were brought up with the belief that john and jane should get an award for just showing up. She grew up in the 50’s with segregation..so I thought of her when one of our frequent posters mentioned people growing up in a sheltered environment who seem unable to handle when real life catches up with themQuote from Lux
Quote from Noah’sArk
just curious but who are the other delusional people in your world
OMG, you know it’s time to take cover when even the mild-tempered [i]Noah[/i] starts getting feisty!
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On that note:
[link=http://douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/31/why-republicans-miss-the-realists/]http://douthat.blogs.nyti…ans-miss-the-realists/[/link]So as odd as it is, especially for anyone who experienced the Bush era, to hear a non-interventionist Republican attacking a tough-on-terror Republican for being too liberal, given the current shape of Republican opinion Rand Pauls framing of his debate with Christie is defensible: By invoking 9/11 to defend the N.S.A.s surveillance programs, the New Jersey governor was arguably attacking Paul from the left.
Ron Paul used to be seen as just a nut-job in the Bush era. Now he & son are mainstream.
Christie used to be a Republican. Now he is a RINO “Obama-hugger” and leftist.
The John Birchers are in charge of the GOP now. Once they used to be the nut jobs Buckley feared. Now the ARE the GOP.-
Quote from Frumious
On that note:
[link=http://douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/31/why-republicans-miss-the-realists/]http://douthat.blogs.nyti…ans-miss-the-realists/[/link]
So as odd as it is, especially for anyone who experienced the Bush era, to hear a non-interventionist Republican attacking a tough-on-terror Republican for being too liberal, given the current shape of Republican opinion Rand Pauls framing of his debate with Christie is defensible: By invoking 9/11 to defend the N.S.A.s surveillance programs, the New Jersey governor was arguably attacking Paul from the left.
Ron Paul used to be seen as just a nut-job in the Bush era. Now he & son are mainstream.
Christie used to be a Republican. Now he is a RINO “Obama-hugger” and leftist.
The John Birchers are in charge of the GOP now. Once they used to be the nut jobs Buckley feared. Now the ARE the GOP.
Who are the democrites? Illegals, entitled ones, food stamp dependant voting bloc, abortion activists, gender-benders, Constitution stompers, America haters, old college professors in tweed jackets with leather elbow protectors and adhesive tape holding their broken glasses together, NOW, and Chicago. Now that is an impressive group!!
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Quote from Point Man
Who are the democrites? Illegals, entitled ones, food stamp dependant voting bloc, abortion activists, gender-benders, Constitution stompers, America haters, old college professors in tweed jackets with leather elbow protectors and adhesive tape holding their broken glasses together, NOW, and Chicago. Now that is an impressive group!!
Other than “illegals”, “Constitution stompers”, and “America haters” which you pulled out of thin air just for effect, there is nothing wrong, devious, sinister, or bad about anything in your bigot list. It’s no surprise that you conveniently left out the many millions of Democrats that are professionals, educated, wealthy, charitable, equitable, and patriotic taxpayers from your list.
As if there are no Republicans on food stamps, especially in the impoverished Deep South.
Yeah that’s right, the B-word applies to your post once again, in droves.
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Quote from Point Man
Who are the Republicans [strike]democrites[/strike]? Illegals (like Ted Cruz), entitled ones (our opinions are in the minority, but we want to tell everyone how to live), food stamp depend[strike]ae[/strike]nt voting bloc (Taker states), abortion activists (No Birth Control), gender-benders(Have you seen Marcus Bachmann?), Constitution stompers (The Patriot Act), America haters(Hannity, Rush and the gang who are want to sell their books at the expense of America and the Republican party), old college professors in tweed jackets with leather elbow protectors and adhesive tape holding their broken glasses together (Jonathan Matusitz), NOW(??), and severely gerrymandered districts that is the only way to hold on to the little power they have left [strike]Chicago[/strike] . Now that is an impressive group!!
Republicans need to continue this quest for “purity”. They must [u]not[/u] allow Gays, Hispanics, African American, Welfare recipients, Women, Professors, environmentalists, or anyone from Chicago into their ranks. Education is a plus, but only if it is someone who was a “legacy” candidate; not someone who used government handouts for their education like Paul Ryan.IMHO, if you plan on using medicare and social security in the near future, you are a Socialist! True conservatives need to realize now is the time to dismantle these programs so that we can cut corporate income taxes!
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Quote from Adeelmd
Quote from Point Man
Who are the Republicans [strike]democrites[/strike]? Illegals (like Ted Cruz), entitled ones (our opinions are in the minority, but we want to tell everyone how to live), food stamp depend[strike]ae[/strike]nt voting bloc (Taker states), abortion activists (No Birth Control), gender-benders(Have you seen Marcus Bachmann?), Constitution stompers (The Patriot Act), America haters(Hannity, Rush and the gang who are want to sell their books at the expense of America and the Republican party), old college professors in tweed jackets with leather elbow protectors and adhesive tape holding their broken glasses together (Jonathan Matusitz), NOW(??), and severely gerrymandered districts that is the only way to hold on to the little power they have left [strike]Chicago[/strike] . Now that is an impressive group!!Republicans need to continue this quest for “purity”. They must [u]not[/u] allow Gays, Hispanics, African American, Welfare recipients, Women, Professors, environmentalists, or anyone from Chicago into their ranks. Education is a plus, but only if it is someone who was a “legacy” candidate; not someone who used government handouts for their education like Paul Ryan.
IMHO, if you plan on using medicare and social security in the near future, you are a Socialist! True conservatives need to realize now is the time to dismantle these programs so that we can cut corporate income taxes!
I was just about to sit down for a nice Sunday lunch, but I just read your post and am now suddenly satiated and fully energized to complete the rest of my workday.
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well, I hope Cruz/Rubio/conservative black chick Crystal wright/ Michael Steele/ the young bush running in Texas and that conservative commentator Anna V who got feisty with Rep King on Meet the press are listening to your views
Quote from Adeelmd
Quote from Point Man
Who are the Republicans [strike]democrites[/strike]? Illegals (like Ted Cruz), entitled ones (our opinions are in the minority, but we want to tell everyone how to live), food stamp depend[strike]ae[/strike]nt voting bloc (Taker states), abortion activists (No Birth Control), gender-benders(Have you seen Marcus Bachmann?), Constitution stompers (The Patriot Act), America haters(Hannity, Rush and the gang who are want to sell their books at the expense of America and the Republican party), old college professors in tweed jackets with leather elbow protectors and adhesive tape holding their broken glasses together (Jonathan Matusitz), NOW(??), and severely gerrymandered districts that is the only way to hold on to the little power they have left [strike]Chicago[/strike] . Now that is an impressive group!!
Republicans need to continue this quest for “purity”. They must [u]not[/u] allow Gays, Hispanics, African American, Welfare recipients, Women, Professors, environmentalists, or anyone from Chicago into their ranks. Education is a plus, but only if it is someone who was a “legacy” candidate; not someone who used government handouts for their education like Paul Ryan.
IMHO, if you plan on using medicare and social security in the near future, you are a Socialist! True conservatives need to realize now is the time to dismantle these programs so that we can cut corporate income taxes!
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The right wingers are like bullies
Once you stand them up and make them come up with real solutions to all of their issues they put their tail between their legs and run away
Usually yelling communist and socialists and other stupid names as they run away beaten again-
Look. There are liberals on this board who want to have reasoned debate on the substance of important issues. What I see from the right leaning posters (Alda, mike, point, bill, cardiac) is no effort to discuss policy. With the exception of the occasional Mistrad post the typical “conservative” entry on this board reads like inflammatory deranged ranting detached from political reality. I’m not trying to be insulting with that observation, but come on guys…. Try some substantive debate for a change.
Edit: I’ll even give that aldadoc has occasional moments of lucidity…. When he feels like it.
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[b]Edit: I’ll even give that aldadoc has occasional moments of lucidity…. When he feels like it.[/b]
IDK I used to beleive he was still in there but he may be gone-
Quote from kpack123
[b]Edit: I’ll even give that aldadoc has occasional moments of lucidity…. When he feels like it.[/b]
IDK I used to beleive he was still in there but he may be gone
Aldadoc definitely has crossed the deranged line in recent weeks. Earlier instances of so-called “lucidity” have now dropped below the odds of being objective if one had simply randomly selected a story in any news venue, even Faux. Aldadoc is now going out of the way to surgically select extremist Tea Party / libertarian ideology as his new standard. Alda’s former moments of “lucidity” have now fallen far more often into “foggy” which I believe is more physiological rather than ideological (I.e., perhaps related more to age than reason) which is why I suggested earlier that we should cut that particular user some slack.
My opinion, based on recent trending in forum posts.
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Interesting thing about Cardiac is that “his” $ comes from my taxes, directly and indirectly, even if he takes only cash which is probably not the case since insurance pays so much better than cash paying patients. Then again, does he see patients directly? And what about the equipment that he does his dx on? He paid for it?
Funny thing about markets and money, it’s all fungible. It’s all interconnected.
The Right imagines the individual self against the world, alone against the blood-suckers of the world. I think that’s science fiction. Richard Matheson wrote that in 1953 called, “I am Legend.” It was done in a movie called “The Omega Man with Charlton “You can peel my cold dead fingers” Heston and recently with Will Smith in “I am Legend.”
Actually wasn’t that Ayn Rand who started a cult & lived off all the worshippers? Symbiosis?
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Whats really funny is how they all ran when Dergon asked a basic question and the rest of us especiallyme called a temporary truce to let them respond
Crickets-
After a long week of work and nasty weekend call, I come back to the board to find the liberals going wild patting themselves on the back in a debauchery of self affirmation. You ask why the Republicans don’t “moderate” their views? Well!, let me bring you a dose of reality.
What has the Democrat party given us lately?
-High value weasels, such as Weiner, Filner Jesse Jackson JR, Harry Reed.
-Opposition to a policy of US energy self reliance by blocking fracking and the Keystone pipeline.
-Censorship to the point where even clowns have to be PC, bullying the press (James Rosen)
-Discordant foreign policy and projection of weakness.
-High taxes, joblessness, racial strife, swelling of welfare and disability rolls.
-Weaponizing the IRS as a political arm.
-A lawless justice department
-Obamacare – Implementation through trickery, lies, graft and partisan legislative maneuvers. Cost overruns to the tune of $2 trillion, more taxes, more legislation, unelected death panels, special deals for Congress and for large companies, privacy issues, selective implementations driven by partisan political calculus, loss of freedoms, loss of autonomy, loss of jobs, massive wealth redistribution scheme.
– Climate alarmists
-Opposition to second amendment. Executive usurping powers not granted by the constitution, lack of deference to the courts, inability to generate a budget in four years.
-Creation of a dependent gimme, gimme society full of Julias.
-Loss of moral compass. A society without a moral compass is bound to self destruct.
These are just a few of the reasons for the GOP to have a clear differentiation.-
Quote from aldadoc
These are just a few of the reasons for the GOP to have a clear differentiation.
And yet another example of extremist minority who complain incessantly about the majority but who refuse to offer any solutions of their own. Whiners and terrorists. No clue how to lead.
The crickets are deafening
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Aldadoc, one of the primary issues the ACA was trying to solve was the disintegration of the Employer Sponsored Insurance system.
The number of americans covered by their employer dropped from 66% in 1997 to 54% in 2010. The percentage under ESI fell every year from 2000 to 2010. It is [i]the primary driver[/i] of the uninsured crisis in the US. (Had the rate of coverage held over the last decade 28 million more americans would be covered).
I would like to hear more of how you would incentivize employers to offer coverage for employees without “the application of mandates, taxes, force, penalties, wealth redistribution, regulations, burdensome bureaucracy”, particulary for low wage and unskilled workers.
I know it is tough — but how would address pre-existing conditions particularly? (ie — how do you insure the sick who will never in a free market obtain insurance)
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More than 80% of Americans were happy with the quality of their health care before Obamacare:
[link=http://www.gallup.com/poll/123149/Cost-Is-Foremost-Healthcare-Issue-for-Americans.aspx]http://www.gallup.com/pol…sue-for-Americans.aspx[/link]
80% is a huge number. You never get Americans to agree to anything in such huge numbers. Was there really a good reason to destroy the system, rather than carefully addressing the cost issue?-
Quote from aldadoc
80% is a huge number.
Unfortunately, so was the skyrocketing cost which made that previous system unsustainable, not to mention the increasing poverty level that caused many millions more Americans from getting adequate healthcare services.
I’m sure if everyone got a free house there would be a high satisfaction rating too. But that doesn’t automatically make it a workable solution to the growing problem.
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Quote from aldadoc
More than 80% of Americans were happy with the quality of their health care before Obamacare:
[link=http://www.gallup.com/poll/123149/Cost-Is-Foremost-Healthcare-Issue-for-Americans.aspx]http://www.gallup.com/pol…sue-for-Americans.aspx[/link]
80% is a huge number. You never get Americans to agree to anything in such huge numbers. Was there really a good reason to destroy the system, rather than carefully addressing the cost issue?
if that 80% really true, he would not have been elected… [i]twice. [/i]”Obummer” ran on healthcare, and got elected in part because of it, twice. No other statistic matters.
Regarding corporate America, I really think Theodore Roosevelt did a big disservice to this country by breaking up Carnegie Steel and Rockefeller’s railroads. IF ONLY those companies were allowed to grow, the US would be in a much better place than it is now. I’m glad modern day Republicans find a lot of his ideas repugnant.
[link=http://www.nps.gov/history/logcabin/html/tr3.html]http://www.nps.gov/history/logcabin/html/tr3.html[/link]
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We are a long ways from Carnagie and Rockefeller. You are really reaching here my friend. Hyperbole and faux crises are the best friend of the socialists.
We are talking about takedown by fiat and socialization of a diversified sector of the economy that accounts for 17% of the GDP. Obamacare is a very unpopular plan that was passed under false pretenses. It must be repealed.-
Quote from aldadoc
Hyperbole and faux crises are the best friend of the socialists.
You mean crises like WMDs in Iraq?
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Quote from Adeelmd
if that 80% really true, he would not have been elected… [i]twice. [/i]…
Hey, Adeel-non-MD, You might want to check with your communist superiors on this one. The Chicago Tribune, a paper that endorsed the Bammer twice, is having second thoughts about Obamacare. Guess they didn’t think that one through. Duh!
[link=http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-edit-obamacare-0818-jm-20130818,0,5666959.story]http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-edit-obamacare-0818-jm-20130818,0,5666959.story[/link]-
Lux is sill stuck on WMD’s. Newsflash, it’s 2013.
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Quote from aldadoc
Lux is sill stuck on WMD’s. Newsflash, it’s 2013.
And how dearly the GOP wants us all to forget.
So how old does a “faux crisis” have to be before you’re exonerated from it?
Does the deficit count?
How about the collapse of the institution of marriage?
Trumped up charges with no substance behind them.
Any American citizen who can’t figure out how to survive on their own should simply be left to die. Is that your prescription? Or am I just not getting the “nuances”?The GOP has no tangible argument based on practical outcomes. It’s all fear-based selfishness, pure and simple. Not at all compatible with sustaining a humane, superpower, democratic republic.
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Alda
Im trying to understand what you are saying. Is this a fair assumption
Nothing was really wrong with our old system so all the changes of Obamacare are unnecessary?
Understanding what you guys really mean or want is difficult?
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Well maybe if Obama looked to the Heritage Foundation or a Republican governer for ideas…oh wait…essentially what Alda is pining for is the federalization of healthcare insurance without federalizing it….quite the pretzel he has himself in
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Now Lux….play nice, this is not a fair inference and you know it….!
“Any American citizen who can’t figure out how to survive on their own should simply be left to die. Is that your prescription?”-Peace Out
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Quote from peace
Now Lux….play nice, this is not a fair inference and you know it….!
“Any American citizen who can’t figure out how to survive on their own should simply be left to die. Is that your prescription?”
-Peace OutIt’s just that I’m sick and tired of those clowns telling us ACA is ruining healthcare when healthcare was in such sh;t shape before ACA, with decades of huge increase in costs, 10 of millions of people not covered and increasing, turning anyone with a pre-ex into some kind of second class citizen, and yet they staunchly refusing to present any alternative that remotely resembles something that works better. And so without ACA, my “inference” is the only thing I’m left with. If you’ve gleaned some other meaning from their ramblings, I’m all ears (er, um, eyes).
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The Tribune backed Obama twice, yes. So for a leading Republicans paper that alone well illustrates the health and viability of the platform of the Republican Party & the candidates it’s chosen to run.
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And patient dumping:
[link=http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/06/12/first-lawsuit-filed-against-nevada-psychiatric-hosptial-in-alleged-patient/]http://www.foxnews.com/po…al-in-alleged-patient/[/link]
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
I don’t understand why you put the part about the you liberals at the end when it seems like you’re talking about a liberal value….social responsibility for the community at large.
Fair enough request. Reason begets reason. Conservatives are actually inherently community and socially conscious. We just demand a higher level of self reliance, accountability and responsibility from the receiving end. Trust, but verify.
Give a man a fish … -
Quote from aldadoc
Quote from dergon
Quote from aldadoc
Dergon, this is where you and I differ.
I don’t live with rich people. I live in a small town where community, responsibility and values still count. We have a high quality medical community and probably one of the premier Radiology practices in the country from all perspectives. We always manage to get people the care they need without Big Brother.
This is certainly where you and I differ. And it also shows exactly why there is no current GOP health care plan. Because when it comes down to it, people like Aldadoc well reflect the opinion of the republican party on health care.
“Your healthcare is bad because your community is weak. Fix it yourself and it will fix itslef”. It is the epitome of the attitude that the GOP would apply to virtually all of the social safety net if it could.It’s why Alda voted for Romney and why I (and thankfully the majority of the american people) voted for Obama.
I don’t agree with everyhting Mr. Obama does, but I agree with this part as he comments on the GOP:
“If you’re out of work, can’t find a job, tough luck; you’re on your own. If you don’t have healthcare, that’s your problem; you’re on your own. If you’re born into poverty, lift yourself up out of your own — with your own bootstraps, even if you don’t have boots; you’re on your own. Hey, they believe that’s how America has advanced. That’s the cramped, narrow conception they have of liberty. This is not just your usual run-of-the-mill political debate. This is the defining issue of our time, a make-or-break moment for the middle class.” ~Barak ObamaUnfortunately, yours and Obama’s approach requires usurping people’s rights, confiscation of their private property, mandated to participate in economic activity and dismantling of a system that works 95% of the time. That may work for you, but not for most.
To what “confiscation of private property” are you referring in the healthcare debate? Or is that your dysphemism for “taxes”.
I think we’ve actually had that substantive debate on health care policy over the last couple of pages.
It seems to me that the conservatives (at least the ones on AM) want tort reform, probably because they view that as being in their own self-interest. Otherwise they real don’t feel that access to insurance for the tens of millions uninsured (and growing) in the USA is a problem important enough to address through legislation or at least certainly not if it costs any money to do it. The uninsured can go to emergency rooms or rely on their community for support (but [b]not[/b] the federal government … gods no!) and if their community happens to be one that is subject to grinding poverty due to decades of inequitable policy well…. that’s their problem.
The employer based system, which has been collapsing for 20 years could be incentivized, but not if it costs a red cent of taxpayer money to do it.
It really is no surprise at all why you don’t hear the GOP say anything beyond “Repeal Obamacare!”. If the bulk of americans actually heard their real opinions the republicans would never win another national election.
This is libertarianism taken too far. They would roll back the clock on the majority of the new deal if they could.-
Once you peel pack the layers of confusion and obfuscation, most Americans oppose Obamacare. Just look at the polls. Why? Because it is all about tradeoffs and whose ox is getting gored.
People are figuring out that nothing is really free. Obamacare raises insurance costs to the young working class. Those who don’t work get if for free, or significantly subsidized. The working young don’t want this additional burden. They are already paying for the old and for Medicaid.
Employers have to either provide insurance for their workers (at higher prices) or pay a penalty of $3,000 for those employees who get subsidized care under the Obamacare exchanges. The regulatory burden on business is unbearable and is already having an effect on employment through decreased hiring, shift to part-time workers or [link=http://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypipes/2013/08/05/delay-of-obamacares-employer-mandate-exacerbates-an-already-bad-situation/]not hiring employees who might use the exchange subsidies [/link](the poor). These are all twisted incentives.
Individual mandates require mandated purchase of insurance or the payment of a lower penalty. Which do you think people are going to choose. There is no down side to picking the penalty. The calculus is that if you get sick, you get insured at that time.
Private insurers are dropping out of markets. This essentialy leaves the government as the default insurer. Obama’s claims that [link=http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2013/08/05/airbrushing-away-the-numerous-false-promises-of-obama-care/]”if you like your health plan, you can keep it” or “if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor, period”[/link] have now been exposed as a lies.
Physicians have been hit from several sides, including the shift of Medicare fund into the implementation of Obamacare, and the burdensome and increasing regulatory morass.
Taxes have been increased for the purposes of Obamacare. The mechanism has been put into place for yet another massive redistibution scheme.
Worst of all, Obamacare destroys the concept of people having ownership in their own health. The government regulates the product, the reimbursement, the availability of services, they control your health records, your privacy andyour freedoms.
People are asking themselves if in the end it is really worth it for the sake of protecting Obamas’ legacy and the wet dreams of a handful of kleptomaniac liberals. To more and more people, the answer seems to be NO.
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
Quote from Point Man
Quote from aldadoc
Quote from kpack123
[b]I don’t live with rich people. I live in a small town where community, responsibility and values still count. We have a high quality medical community and probably one of the premier Radiology practices in the country from all perspectives. We always manage to get people the care they need without Big Brother. [/b]
Question alda Is your primary hospital a not for profit or a for profit?
Non-profit (technically), but they are profitable.
Alda, as you stated, there are no not-for-profit hospitals, except for tax evasion purposes. They are more appropriately designated as not-for-loss hospitals. Those so called not-for-profits do have CFO’s, and as I remember those guys are there to count money.
For profit or not for profit, are they not supposed to have some in charge of accounting (the CFO)?
Yes, but the for-profits like HCA take it to a whole new level.
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Agree…for instance they become Republican Governers
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Republicans were not allowed to participate in the drafting of the Obamacare. They were told to shut up and sit in the corner. No amendments were allowed. The bill was not allowed to go to conference. No debates or discussion … nada, nada, nothing but skullduggery, vote buying, deception and arm twisting. This was an ugly spectacle of government at its worst.
Now that everyone sees what a piece of crap this piece of legislation is, they want to blame the Republicans for not participating. Typical kneejerk reaction from the leftist socialists. People want the goodies they were promised, but they don’t want to pay for it. Hence the dilemma. It must be the Republican’s fault, because nothing is Obama’s fault. He promised us goodies for free and its not working out that way. Someone must be blocking it, somehow it’s got to be the Republicans’ fault. Man up and own it Democrats, you hoisted this turd on the American people. You own this bad joke! At this point only you can amend or repeal this, since you control the senate and the empty chair over at the executive.-
As an employer, now finding out what obamacare means for me and my employees.
New rate hike of 13%, 4.5% of which is for
The Health Insurer Tax, The Patient Center Outcomes Research Institute Fee, and the Reinsurance Fee. (all part of obamacare)
If an employee goes online to see if they are eligible for the exchanges, they have to fill out the online application. that info then goes to the IRS, the Dept of Labor, HHS, Office of Homeland Security, and social Security. If we are not meeting requirements, employer penalized $3000. If we are meeting the affordability test for our plan (which we are), employer still gets to respond to an IRS audit questionaire.
Nice huh? Land of the free, home of the brave.-
[b]As an employer, now finding out what obamacare means for me and my employees. [/b]
[b]New rate hike of 13%[/b]
Point of clarrification thats not 13% on the dollar
if you are paying 10cents now you are paying 11.3cents-
Dems wouldn’t care about owning it if the Republicans just got out of the way. Unfortunately, the right needs to resort to sabotage out of fear
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Alda & Seattle,
The ACA was a 100% REPUBLICAN plan hatched by Heritage. Newt, most all Republicans & even (Dr) DeMint(o) loved it until -and only until Obama reduced his single payer plan to adopt/accept the Heritage/Romneycare plan.
Instead of declaring victory, Republicans declared war, went AWOL & disavowed all ideas they had previously supported all in an attempt to deny Obama any credit. One of the primary reasons Romney looked such a fool.
You can run but you can’t hide.
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wow. I would love to see a reference how this plan is 100% republican, or has anything to do with the heritage foundation plan.
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Quote from seattlerad
wow. I would love to see a reference how this plan is 100% republican, or has anything to do with the heritage foundation plan.
[link=http://www.standard.net/stories/2012/03/21/obamacare-demonized-right-had-conservative-roots]http://www.standard.net/s…had-conservative-roots[/link]
What the Republicans and their think-tank idea-feeders hope you don’t remember — or haven’t learned from the news media — is that Obamacare’s mandate grew from roots that were neither liberal nor socialist — but market-based and conservative. One of the early advocates of a market-based mandated health insurance for all was the conservative Heritage Foundation. And its earliest champions included not just Gov. Romney, whose Massachusetts plan had just such an insurance mandate, but also conservative Republicanism’s self-proclaimed thinker of big thoughts, former House Speaker Gingrich.
In 1993, when he was still hatching his master plan that won him a speakership, Gingrich appeared on NBC’s “Meet the Press” and said: “I am for people, individuals — exactly like automobile insurance — individuals having health insurance and being required to have health insurance. And I am prepared to vote for a voucher system which will give individuals, on a sliding scale, a government subsidy so we insure that everyone as individuals have health insurance.”
[link=http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204618704576641190920152366.html]http://online.wsj.com/art…76641190920152366.html[/link]
At last night’s [link=http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1110/18/se.05.html]CNN debate[/link], Mitt Romney and Newt Gingrich sparred over the paternity of the illegitimate child eventually adopted by Barack Obama:
[blockquote][b]Romney:[/b] Actually, Newt, we got the idea of an individual mandate from you.[/blockquote] [blockquote][b]Gingrich:[/b] That’s not true. You got it from the Heritage Foundation.[/blockquote] [blockquote][b]Romney:[/b] Yeah, we got it from you and the Heritage–you got it from the Heritage Foundation and from you [sic].[/blockquote] [blockquote][b]Gingrich:[/b] Wait a second. What you just said is not true. You did not get that from me. You got it from the Heritage Foundation.[/blockquote] [blockquote][b]Romney:[/b] And you’ve never supported?[/blockquote] [blockquote][b]Gingrich:[/b] I agree with that, but I’m just saying, what you said to this audience just now plain wasn’t true.[/blockquote] [blockquote][b]Romney:[/b] OK. Let me ask, have you supported in the past an individual mandate?[/blockquote] [blockquote][b]Gingrich:[/b] I absolutely did, with the Heritage Foundation, against HillaryCare.[/blockquote] [blockquote][b]Romney:[/b] You did support an individual mandate?[/blockquote] [blockquote][b]Gingrich:[/b] Yes sir.[/blockquote] [blockquote][b]Romney:[/b] Oh, OK. That’s what I’m saying. We got the idea from you and the Heritage Foundation.[/blockquote] [blockquote] Whatever the particular differences, the Heritage mandate was indistinguishable [i]in principle [/i]from the ObamaCare one. In both cases, the federal government would force individuals to purchase a product from a private company–something that Congress has never done before and that, according to the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, exceeds its power under the Constitution’s Commerce Clause.
In that 11th Circuit appeal, which is almost certainly headed to the Supreme Court, the Justice Department cited Heritage as an authority in support of its position.[/blockquote]A mirror article reflecting the above in WSJ:
[link=http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2011/10/20/how-a-conservative-think-tank-invented-the-individual-mandate/]http://www.forbes.com/sit…he-individual-mandate/[/link]
[link=http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/06/25/120625fa_fact_klein]http://www.newyorker.com/…25/120625fa_fact_klein[/link]The mandate made its political début in a 1989 Heritage Foundation brief titled Assuring Affordable Health Care for All Americans, as a counterpoint to the single-payer system and the employer mandate, which were favored in Democratic circles. In the brief, Stuart Butler, the foundations health-care expert, argued, Many states now require passengers in automobiles to wear seat-belts for their own protection. Many others require anybody driving a car to have liability insurance. But neither the federal government nor any state requires all households to protect themselves from the potentially catastrophic costs of a serious accident or illness. Under the Heritage plan, there would be such a requirement. The mandate made its first legislative appearance in 1993, in the Health Equity and Access Reform Today Actthe Republicans alternative to President Clintons health-reform billwhich was sponsored by John Chafee, of Rhode Island, and co-sponsored by eighteen Republicans, including Bob Dole, who was then the Senate Minority Leader.
[i]Health Affairs [/i]Jan. 1994 [b]Personal Freedom, Responsibility, and Mandates[/b], by Robert E. Moffitt
“Absent a specific mandate for at least catastrophic health insurance coverage, some persons, even with the availability of tax credits to offset their costs, will deliberately take advantage of their fellow citizens by not protecting themselves or their families, with the full knowledge that if they do incur a catastrophic illness that financially devastates them, we will, after all is said and done, take care of them and pay all of the bills. They will be correct in this assessment…
An individual mandate for insurance, then, is not simply to assure other people protection from the ravages of a serious illness, however socially desirable that may be; it is also to protect ourselves. Such selfprotection is justified within the context of individual freedom; the precedent for this view can be traced to none other than John Stuart Mill.”
[i][/i]-
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[b] That would not have passed muster with the constitutional scholars and with the GOP. [/b]
The Supreme court has a conservative leaning
You have to say they are the constitutional scholars that matter
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Quote from kpack123
Point of clarrification thats not 13% on the dollar
if you are paying 10cents now you are paying 11.3cents
That sounds like 13% on the dollar, no?
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yep
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They blew it. Roberts blinked.
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The republicans should take the hard road in defunding obamacare, no matter what happens. It puts direct pressure on the white house and dems for supporting bad legislation, especially heading into 2014. And no doctor should be satisfied until Kathleen Sebelius is led out of DC on a pike.
Repubs should make dems-obama own up to their modern legacy-PART-TIME AMERICA. The more resistance to Obamacare, the more the president has to voice about supporting it and defending. At the same time, Obama then has to justify and defend his unparalleled poor record on the economy. Obama looks like a dishonest clown, even worse than that rodeo, to any moderate when he tries to defend his economic record. That’s why he doesnt have press conferences.
By the time the 2016 election season comes, America will be getting out of the new recession created by the fed low-interest rate bubble. All a sensible republican would have to do is get on stage and step to the front …look at the audience and say “I want America to be working again…I want to end Obama and the democrats PART-TIME AMERICA”-
doctors probably will salute K. Sebelius for the amount of money she has recovered from the bad apples in our field committing health care fraud
Roberts didn’t blink..he just had enough character to say I don’t want to be a taker and I don’t want to be known for a Plessy vs Ferguson decision..He wanted to move FORWARD!!!Quote from RVU
The republicans should take the hard road in defunding obamacare, no matter what happens. It puts direct pressure on the white house and dems for supporting bad legislation, especially heading into 2014. And no doctor should be satisfied until Kathleen Sebelius is led out of DC on a pike.
Repubs should make dems-obama own up to their modern legacy-PART-TIME AMERICA. The more resistance to Obamacare, the more the president has to voice about supporting it and defending. At the same time, Obama then has to justify and defend his unparalleled poor record on the economy. Obama looks like a dishonest clown, even worse than that rodeo, to any moderate when he tries to defend his economic record. That’s why he doesnt have press conferences.
By the time the 2016 election season comes, America will be getting out of the new recession created by the fed low-interest rate bubble. All a sensible republican would have to do is get on stage and step to the front …look at the audience and say “I want America to be working again…I want to end Obama and the democrats PART-TIME AMERICA”
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will Texas ask for ObamaCare dollars??????
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Quote from RVU
By the time the 2016 election season comes, America will be getting out of the new recession created by the fed low-interest rate bubble. All a sensible republican would have to do is get on stage and step to the front …look at the audience and say “I want America to be working again…I want to end Obama and the democrats PART-TIME AMERICA”
Part time started accelerating under Bush & the Recession & is DEcreasing under Obama.
[attachment=0] -
Loololololool…Are you actually blaming Bush for the en masse creation of part time jobs.!!! Nice. It’s kinda like a current politician reacing back and blaming the Soviets for fluorinated water causing bodily harm. Your worthless chart hasno basis in reality other than to assage libs in this disaster dem/obama economy.
Sorry…75% of the jobs created this year are part time and under 29 hrs. And , YES ,there’s a ABOSLUTE DIRECT link to the 30 hr requirement from Obamacare. Many CEOs have said as much in their shareholders reports. Several other corporate directers dont discuss their contraction in public or the IRS will swing into action against them. This phenomenon occurred recently with”Forever 21″ reducing hrs and yet publically denying its due to Obamacare. Go take a look at the teamsters recent recanting and what they’re saying.
Cause and Effect really clear here–Obamacare has created PART-TIME AMERICA.
By the way, Obama now slips into low 40s in the approval in most polls.
…PSSST-Liberal statism isn’t working and the magical minority is having his clock run out. Will the lemming/low information voters turn to Hillary? How many “Sista Soulja” moments will there be before the old bitty Clinton gets angry and blacks sit it out? And then Obamacare become Hillarycare part deux. Remember how the first Hillarycare ended?
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Quote from RVU
The republicans should take the hard road in defunding obamacare, no matter what happens. It puts direct pressure on the white house and dems for supporting bad legislation, especially heading into 2014. And no doctor should be satisfied until Kathleen Sebelius is led out of DC on a pike.
Repubs should make dems-obama own up to their modern legacy-PART-TIME AMERICA. The more resistance to Obamacare, the more the president has to voice about supporting it and defending.
I think you are a victim of wishful thinking on the political optics. While it is a sizable number of people who want to see Obamacare defunded at 36%, those people skew intensely republican. Like 1995, the american people wuld generally view the GOP as recalcitrant and dysfunctional as mixed messages spill out the WHite House and media pile on. The way the blame would play out would almost certainly [i]not[/i] work to increase the pressure on Obama disproportionately. If you think he would be back on his heels sweating over defending the ACA during a government shutdown you are foolin’ yourself. The GOP is almost certainly likely to take the bulk of the blame, losing all the gains they’ve had going in to the 2014 midterms.
Republican strategsists understand this, the republican mainstream leadership understands (although some are publicly willing to f*ck their own party to position themselves for 2016 so they are saying otherwise), and republican pundits understand this.
Like I said, I welcome a GOP hard line on funding. It’s the best thing the democrats have to increase their chances of holdign hte senate and picking up seats in the house in 2014. -
((disclaimer: I read this article and made a critical analylis before linking it. It was not done blindly. ))
[h1][link=http://www.salon.com/2013/08/20/gop_prepares_to_self_destruct_over_nonsense/]GOP prepares to self-destruct over nonsense [/link][/h1] [h2]The conservative movement seems dead-set on tearing itself apart over “defunding Obamacare,” an imaginary gimmick[/h2]
Call it a kamikaze mission, a circular firing squad, or an escalating civil war, but either way, break out the popcorn and grab a seat as the conservative movement tears itself apart over the doomed scheme to shut down the government unless Obamacare is defunded.
Time is running out to stop the law, with a key provision set to go into effect on Oct. 1, so a handful of Tea Party senators led by Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio and Mike Lee have been engaging in last-ditch brinksmanship to defund it: Refuse to appropriate more money for government operations unless Obama and his fellow Democrats delay the health law. Of course Obama will never do that, but the troika of Republicans are so hell-bent on their plan anyway that theyre accusing their fellow Republicans of ideological treason if they dont clamor on board the ill-fated [link=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_ship]fire ship[/link].
And today thing are getting really ugly as outside groups move in with the artillery. The Washington Posts [link=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/08/19/tea-party-groups-to-target-skeptical-gop-senators-on-defunding-obamacare/]Aaron Blake reports[/link] that Heritage Action, the activist wing of the conservative think tank, along with Tea Party Patriots and another conservative group are starting to run online ads targeting a dozen GOP senators and 100 mostly Republican House members who either oppose or havent signed onto the defund-or-shut down effort. The groups are also launching a bus tour to several of the states represented by the targeted senators. Heritage alone is [link=http://heritageaction.com/press-releases/heritage-action-announces-550000-defund-obamacare-ad-campaign/]putting up $550,000[/link] for the effort a major sum for an non-election political ad campaign.
Never mind that staunch conservatives like Sen. Ron Johnson [link=http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/ron-johnson-other-republicans-says-government-shutdown-unlikely-b9974939z1-219455251.html]have called[/link] the gambit next to impossible, or that Republican Sen. Richard Burr [link=http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/gop-senator-govt-shutdown-threats-over-obamacare-dumbest]called it[/link] the dumbest idea Ive ever heard of. The Tea Partys message remains youre either with us or against us. Dont join the defunding effort? That means you support Obamas health law, they say. Its like healthcare McCarthyism, with communism replaced by Obamacare.
The Tea Party ads today, meanwhile, [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AjZQgjyj3M]call the targeted senators chickens[/link]. In the public option fight, it was a majority (or near-majority) of liberals applying pressure to a small minority of moderate Democrats who had disproportionate leverage on the outcome. On the Obamacare defunding battle, its a minority of hardcore conservatives attacking the majority of conservatives and Republicans because they simply understand the political reality.
Conservatives [are] doing what they do best: Destroying each other via self-defeating circular firing squad, [link=http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2013/08/19/terrific-conservative-groups-bankrolling-obamacare-attack-adsagainst-republicans-n1668037]sighs conservative writer Guy Benson[/link] at TownHall. [b]Its counter-productive madness for conservatives to assail each other at a moment when the other side should be profoundly vulnerable. Strategic disagreement are fine. Foolish litmus tests and ultimatums are destructive.[/b]
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Im hearing the same people talk about defunding obamacare who thought George Bush’s conviction was more important than him being right on things.
Its that delusional stubborness that we see so often from the Republican party -
Frumi’s graph clearly shows part time America begins in 2009 and continuing for Obama’s 5-year tenure . If I remember correctly, Obama got elected in 2008. If you read your own post, you would see that full time employment was level during the Bush tenure. This is an embarrassing graph for Democrats. Hurry Frumi, take it down.
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Roberts did blink. He made a pretzel out of the ruling in order to accommodate Obamacare. He caved into political pressure in trying to get SCOTUS out of the fray. He sold out principles and he knows it. It was clear that he had written a decision against Obamacare and scrapped it with a last minute switch. Gutless!
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Dergon and the entire mainstream political apparatckik is counting on history repeating itself and the people blaming the GOP if a fight for defunding Obamacare shuts down the government. This is why a lot of weak-kneed Republicans are running scared. I think that the Republicans are going to take the blame no matter what happens, so they should buck up and fight back. The GOP is the punching bag for the press. If they cave, they are going to lose the trust of conservative base and threre wil be a serious call for a third party.
If the GOP takes the principled position of defunding Obamacare, and if they go to the mat and actually defund the thing, they will win in the long run. People will be energized by the newfound concept of legislators actually putting country before politics.
The emperor has no clothes. Someone eventually has to point this out to the sheeple.
By the way, have you noticed? The grassroot movement to defund gains steam:
[link=http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/08/22/3578657/town-hall-meeting-to-defund-obamacare.html]http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/08/22/3578657/town-hall-meeting-to-defund-obamacare.html[/link] -
How long you shutting down the govt for Alda? Days? Weeks? Months? Actually the principled position would be to say that this was passed by a majority and the funds should be given to make it work. Then as problems arise, work to correct those problems. If it doesn’t function as allowed to, then hoist it over the Dems, get a majority and change; but the transparent notion of active sabotage is obvious to most. The fear on the right is palpable as they lose relevance through their complete inability to govern and plummet nationally. Why the sudden need to defund if you think the program won’t work? Wouldn’t that be the best from Republicans long term prospects?
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Quote from aldadoc
Dergon and the entire mainstream political apparatckik is counting on history repeating itself and the people blaming the GOP if a fight for defunding Obamacare shuts down the government. This is why a lot of weak-kneed Republicans are running scared. I think that the Republicans are going to take the blame no matter what happens, so they should buck up and fight back. The GOP is the punching bag for the press. If they cave, they are going to lose the trust of conservative base and threre wil be a serious call for a third party.
If the GOP takes the principled position of defunding Obamacare, and if they go to the mat and actually defund the thing, they will win in the long run. People will be energized by the newfound concept of legislators actually putting country before politics.The emperor has no clothes. Someone eventually has to point this out to the sheeple.
By the way, have you noticed? The grassroot movement to defund gains steam:
[link=http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/08/22/3578657/town-hall-meeting-to-defund-obamacare.html]http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/08/22/3578657/town-hall-meeting-to-defund-obamacare.html[/link]
i really, really hope the Republican party takes the position of defunding Obamacare. It will thrill the base beyond belief. The cost of Obamacare is soooooo much more than anyone is anticipating (I expect it will cost a googolplex amount of dollars). Even Obama and democrats are distancing themselves from their own plan, as the recent downturn in the market is reflective of the upcoming depression Republicans are hoping for. Most Americans do NOT want a government bureaucrat deciding their healthcare, that responsibility should be handled by insurance adjusters in a free market. While many liberals claim that the increase in part-time jobs is in part due to the sequester and outright corporate greed, we all know its because companies like Walmart or Mcdonalds can’t make any profit under this 1000 page bill. Anything that is that long and complicated (i.e. War and Peace, Encyclopedia Britannica, Atlas Shrugged) must be full of crap.
I support Arizona governor Jan Brewer’s healthcare plan. That is truly innovative and immediately puts her in the conversation for 2016. States should get to decide on healthcare, not some federal mandate!
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Quote from seattlerad
As an employer, now finding out what obamacare means for me and my employees.
New rate hike of 13%, 4.5% of which is for
The Health Insurer Tax, The Patient Center Outcomes Research Institute Fee, and the Reinsurance Fee. (all part of obamacare)If an employee goes online to see if they are eligible for the exchanges, they have to fill out the online application. that info then goes to the IRS, the Dept of Labor, HHS, Office of Homeland Security, and social Security. If we are not meeting requirements, employer penalized $3000. If we are meeting the affordability test for our plan (which we are), employer still gets to respond to an IRS audit questionaire.
Nice huh? Land of the free, home of the brave.You know at one time a democrat could look at their early 20th century ethos, and boast about their legislative and structural accomplishments with some pride. One accomplishment easily recited endlessly by dems and unionists, was the establishment of the regular 40 hr work. An 8 hr day working 5 days a week (although as for myself or any other working doctor, we have never really come close to enjoying this luxury) to be expected for a man’s or woman’s honest efforts at work. Square Deal.
Now turn to the age of Barack Obama, and Obamacare. Obama, in his zeal for reparations and redistribution mixed with fundamental intransigent arrogance, is quickly making the new norm “part-time’ work. 75% …..THREE-QUARTERS of the 1 million new jobs created this year are part-time.
Barack Obama has created a new norm that will not be forgotten-Part Time America.
The only thing that will stop President obamas new plaque of part time work, is ironically enough supply side economics. Letting all sectors of the economy roar to where there is a natural labor shortage and hours/benefits of workers can be generous out of economic necessity.
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The Heritage Foundation is a think tank. They don’t set policy for the Republican party. My hat is off to them for exploring solutions. The normal progression of a nascent idea would have been to take components of it, debate them, cost model them, discuss them, throw out the bad and keep the good. The plan as a whole, would have never passed the acid test of reality without a whole host of mandates and taxes. That would not have passed muster with the constitutional scholars and with the GOP. There is a huge gulf between, an idea being debated to its unilateral imposition as law. The Democrats took a few concepts out of the Heritage and Massachussetts plans and debased them with a whole host of mandates, taxes and lopsided subsidies. They created a monster bureaucracy that could not garner a single Republican vote. The law as written violates some basic tenets of conservative thought, including significant impingements on individual freedoms, huge costs, forced redistribution of wealth, higher taxes and obligate swelling government powers. It asks conservatives to ignore all that they stand for. The Democrats now want to pass of as a Republican idea, because of a few oblique similarities to an obscure Heritage Foundation think tank concept.
Frumi has been pushing this concept for years. Nobody who can read believes it. Reaching for a deep recycle Frumi. You must be feeling the pressure of losing the argument.-
Quote from aldadoc
The Heritage Foundation[strike] is [/strike] used to be a think tank.
Fixed it for ya’.
It’s now a PAC. -
Quote from aldadoc
The Heritage Foundation is a think tank. They don’t set policy for the Republican party. My hat is off to them for exploring solutions. The normal progression of a nascent idea would have been to take components of it, debate them, cost model them, discuss them, throw out the bad and keep the good. The plan as a whole, would have never passed the acid test of reality without a whole host of mandates and taxes. That would not have passed muster with the constitutional scholars and with the GOP. There is a huge gulf between, an idea being debated to its unilateral imposition as law. The Democrats took a few concepts out of the Heritage and Massachussetts plans and debased them with a whole host of mandates, taxes and lopsided subsidies. They created a monster bureaucracy that could not garner a single Republican vote. The law as written violates some basic tenets of conservative thought, including significant impingements on individual freedoms, huge costs, forced redistribution of wealth, higher taxes and obligate swelling government powers. It asks conservatives to ignore all that they stand for. The Democrats now want to pass of as a Republican idea, because of a few oblique similarities to an obscure Heritage Foundation think tank concept.
Frumi has been pushing this concept for years. Nobody who can read believes it. Reaching for a deep recycle Frumi. You must be feeling the pressure of losing the argument.
Regardless, it WAS developed by Heritage & pushed by Republicans before, during and after Romneycare which itself is the Heritage Plan. Obamacare is a clone on a national scale of Romneycare. Republicans applauded Romneycare when instituted in Mass. Those applauding were Newt and DeMint and most everyone else.
It was marketed as a “market-plan” over the Democrat’s plan of a single payer, the government. It was also touted as eliminating the free-riders, you know, those without insurance who get sick or injured & make the public foot the bill. It was marketed as an individual responsibility program.
Reality
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Even James Taranto, not exactly a liberal, agrees. He softens some areas but essentially agrees it was Heritage & Republicans who supported the plan for several reasons.
[link=http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204369404577211161144786448.html]http://online.wsj.com/art…77211161144786448.html[/link]
[h1][/h1][h1]Heritage Rewrites History[/h1] The think tank proposed the individual mandate years before Clinton took office.[/h2] But here is Butler’s original description of how the mandate would be enforced, from page 51 of the 1989 monograph:
[blockquote]The requirement to obtain basic insurance would have to be enforced. The easiest way to monitor compliance might be for households to furnish proof of insurance when they file their tax returns. If a family were to cancel its insurance, the insurer would be required to notify the government. If the family did not enroll in another plan before the first insurance coverage lapsed and did not provide evidence of financial problems, a fine might be imposed.[/blockquote][blockquote][/blockquote] Shades of using the IRS to check on the mandate! OMG! The Republicans came up with using the IRS to enforce the mandate too!
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Quote from Frumious
Shades of using the IRS to check on the mandate! OMG! The Republicans came up with using the IRS to enforce the mandate too!
Hilarious.
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But he is the constitutional Scholar……………….Right?
