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Bitcoin
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I think his investment strategy is sound. Tesla stocks are good to own.
But as the CFO of a charitable foundation, he might be selected because of his conservative investment strategies? His job is to preserve capital, less so to maximize returns.
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Tesla stock approaching 800$ with signs of decelerating growth and major competition from GM is good to own?
Good but not at these prices
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Meanwhile
Apple just blew out earnings plus buying back 90 billion in stock and increasing their quarterly dividend 7%
Im the dumb one I guess
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Dont want to derail the topic. And yes Tesla is a bit expensive now, But I think it has good growth potential, and way ahead of everyone in terms of self driving technology, ahead in developing infrastructures.
And give the CFO some credit. He bought before the boom.
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Noone says youre dumb. I have quite a bit of apple too.
The topic here is whether Bitcoin is worth buying. I think it is. You might get rich.
More importantly, it alleviates some major flaws in our financial system unless you like a crisis similar to 2007 every two decades. Many people lost entire savings then. The world will be a better place if we accept it.
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Yes something based on nothing is going to prevent banks from packaging junk mortgages into something billed as safe investments forcing a global banking and insurance crisis
Yes Bitcoin is GOD
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With Bitcoin, you don’t need a bank to save money. Problem with banks is that they are motivated by profits. Can’t blame them, they have to to be competitive. But that means being risky with people’s money entrusted to them. This is why they buy derivatives, derivatives of those derivatives. All is fine and dandy till the market crash. Then either peoples’ savings go to sheet or the government has to bail them out.
If Bitcoin is universally accepted, you can still store them in banks and banks can still lend them out to spur the economy. That comes with known risks. But at least its the customers who decide to assume that risk.-
Bitcoin is not GOD. But one similarity. Just as state and religion should be separate, state shouldn’t be the one minting money. There’s an obvious conflict of interest.
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The financial crisis had nothing to do with currency
You understand that the financial near collapse occurred because investment were fraudulent packaged as safe investments backed by mortgage securities that were supposed to be highly rated
Banks were lending money to individuals who couldnt afford to make the payments
When they all defaulted these investments essentially collapsed and that triggered the run on some of the banks and big investment firms, then the insurance industry got overextended and the dominoes were set to fall until they got bailed out
But I digress
Please tell me how Bitcoin would have prevented the financial crisis as you said above?
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If anything if the shell of Bitcoin collapses it will send ripples through the markets because of the dumbarses who will lose their shirts
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[link=https://analyticsindiamag.com/origin-bitcoin-brief-history/]https://analyticsindiamag…bitcoin-brief-history/[/link]
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If one thinks it’s going from $55K to zero, that’s an insanely promising short opportunity. Make some money off your conviction.
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Chiro,
Just dont own it then. No one here will convince you otherwise. I sure as hell wont waste my time.Youve clearly made up your mind before researching the topic.-
Just wondering how Bitcoin could have averted the financial crisis of2008
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Basically the article you posted in a some Indian guy who wrote a blog post
Its just garbage
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We’ll just get used to the new world where money appreciates in value instead of inflation.
Thats called deflation. Usually doesnt end well
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Yes
Basically it would be a battle to see who controlled the Bitcoin supply
I can see wars starting over stuff like that
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Whats funny is Bitcoin seems to be driven by the anti government types who dont want to be constrained by governments but the end game of there system is to be controlled by a worldwide cabal
Basically they are just swearing allegiance to a new master
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Why do you accuse us of being anti-government? We’ll still need the government. We need the government more than ever. To make laws, even new ones to keep up with the times. Especially with new technologies AI, fintech, social media changing the world at a blazing speed. But we let them do what they do best- to govern. I merely said they shouldn’t control the supply of money. It is a bad practice that had persisted through history because we have no other alternatives before Bitcoin. Prime time for some major reforms, don’t you think?
Quote from Chirorad84
Whats funny is Bitcoin seems to be driven by the anti government types who dont want to be constrained by governments but the end game of there system is to be controlled by a worldwide cabal
Basically they are just swearing allegiance to a new master
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You are being extremely naive
If you have a fixed number of anything and there is presumed value
there will be those that attempt to control it and corner the market
As far as the Bitcoin types being anti government just look around. Its pretty blatant anti government control anti government fiscal policy etc
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if one day Bitcoin comes under control by a rogue dictator, the rest of the world will trade with its alternative (likely created out of the same blueprint as Bitcoin).
Uuhhhmmmmmmm and what happens when the dictator controls the worlds supply of Bitcoin?????
Naive. Very very very naive
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Well be in this same forum arguing.
Ill be proposing Bitcoin version 2.0. Lets call it Bitcoin Cash.
Youll be defending Bitcoin 1.0 and the rogue dictator.
Change is inevitable. Embrace it.
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Bitcoin can’t be controlled. It’s owned by no entity that can be defined. It is co-owned by everyone.
The three pillars of influences are the developers, miners, and users. Each group keep one another in check.
The analogy between Bitcoin and internet is so apt. I’m not saying Bitcoin impact is as big as the internet. But focus on the point that you can’t buy the internet. If someone controls the internet, the technology is there for everyone else to create a new realm. Likewise if one day Bitcoin comes under control by a rogue dictator, the rest of the world will trade with its alternative (likely created out of the same blueprint as Bitcoin).
Quote from Chirorad84
Yes
Basically it would be a battle to see who controlled the Bitcoin supply
I can see wars starting over stuff like that
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Inflation is equally bad. Best state is a balance. That’s why we need a decentralized, self-regulating system.
Quote from AngryBirds
We’ll just get used to the new world where money appreciates in value instead of inflation.
Thats called deflation. Usually doesnt end well
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[link=https://www.bloomberg.com/features/bitcoin-bulls-bears/?utm_source=twitter&utm_content=business&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_medium=social&cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business]https://www.bloomberg.com…lflow-twitter-business[/link]
Nice little piece on [i]Bloomberg[/i]
[h1]BITCOIN BULLS AND BEARS[/h1] [h2]WHOS HOT, WHOS NOT ON CRYPTO[/h2]
gives a nice sample quote from lots of various players in the financial sector and titans of industry etc
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[link=https://www.complex.com/pop-culture/mila-kunis-trying-to-talk-ashton-kutcher-out-of-investing-in-uber-bitcoin]https://www.complex.com/p…esting-in-uber-bitcoin[/link]
Interesting interview with Colbert and Mila Kunis. I didn’t realize that her husband Ashton Kutcher is a VC investor and was super big into bitcoin 10 years ago (and Uber and AirBnB)
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Got the vibe that you are coming to your senses. If you havent, you will with time…
Good video. I thought about it a little more. So whats the commonality among Uber, AirBnB and Bitcoin? Decentralization. Catch the trend there?
So Ashton bought into it 10 years ago? I wished I had that foresight.
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The old guard doesn’t change. The weirdest part about it is that they complain about the people right next to the money printer (and these lefties) but never blame the government for being in league with these same people they complain about.
They don’t want honesty, that’s why they love the government and all of its inefficiency and corruption in plain sight. Think of it – MRI is pitching an honest system and they are screaming, “No! No! No!”-
My “vibe” is unchanged.
I have absolutely no idea what the price of bitcoin is likely to be in 1, 5, or 10 years. Therefore I consider it a wholly speculative investment.
I do not have a personal monies in speculative investments.
In a few years if it settles out and has some roughly predictable correlation I might consider holding some in my portfolio. But I don’t have and fomo of missing a big run in BTC.-
Quote from dergon
My “vibe” is unchanged.
I have absolutely no idea what the price of bitcoin is likely to be in 1, 5, or 10 years. Therefore I consider it a wholly speculative investment.
I do not have a personal monies in speculative investments.
In a few years if it settles out and has some roughly predictable correlation I might consider holding some in my portfolio. But I don’t have and fomo of missing a big run in BTC.
for a speculative play you could do something like Cardano. i believe it’s supposed to me be more efficient than BTC and that made me think it might be a good option for a speculative play. Less electricity needed. I started out with the coinbase app. Bought $100 worth a while back and see it like playing the lottery.
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Its not just tesla anymore. Other medium to large companies are also buying bitcoin.
[link=https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/05/06/square-sq-earnings-q1-2021.html]https://www.cnbc.com/amp/…-earnings-q1-2021.html[/link]
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They will be left behind, I’m done with this crowd.
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Watched Elon Musk host on SNL this weekend. I have to admit, he was much better than I thought he would be.
Doge dropped 30% on Musk’s joke about it being “a hustle”
But the sketch where plays an eccentric cowboy who is just ahead of his time was pretty good.
[link]https://youtu.be/mOctrS7j8dg[/link]
” [i]Money[/i] is a golden rock that we dig out of the ground. Then we hope no one kills us before we trade it for pieces of green paper. … It’s a perfect system!”-
but seriously, what is DOgecoin???
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Is it true that the ransomware hackers who hacked the Southeast pipeline are demanding payment in Bitcoin?
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Quote from dergon
Watched Elon Musk host on SNL this weekend. I have to admit, he was much better than I thought he would be.
Doge dropped 30% on Musk’s joke about it being “a hustle”
But the sketch where plays an eccentric cowboy who is just ahead of his time was pretty good.
[link=https://youtu.be/mOctrS7j8dg]https://youtu.be/mOctrS7j8dg[/link]
” [i]Money[/i] is a golden rock that we dig out of the ground. Then we hope no one kills us before we trade it for pieces of green paper. … It’s a perfect system!”
Good skit. How many billionaires could pull that off?
“I do like electric horses and self driving horses which are just horses.”
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They always demand payment in cryptocurrency of some form. Lots of illegal activity occurs with crypto.
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Lots of illegal activity occurs with cash.
Ban cash
Oh yeah, your overlords love that idea, too-
More illegal activity occurs on an absolute and relative basis with cash than with BTC. FUD.
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How is a discussion on Bitcoin part of the General Radiology forum unless you can’t focus on reading without knowing where your investments will be taking you. Of course…..that MUST be the connection…LOL
PACSMan-
Elon musk trolling
In a Twitter post, Musk cited the environmental impact of Bitcoin mining, which has been cited by critics for being energy intensive and a detriment to the climate.
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Bitcoin is such a great hedge
Dow drops 2.5% in a week, Bitcoin drops 25%
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Quote from AngryBirds
Bitcoin is such a great hedge
Dow drops 2.5% in a week, Bitcoin drops 25%
Are you selling? Then why mention it?
Did you mention how BTC is up 200% YoY for … every year? Come on, at least try to be honest.
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Quote from Chirorad84
Elon musk trolling
In a Twitter post, Musk cited the environmental impact of Bitcoin mining, which has been cited by critics for being energy intensive and a detriment to the climate.
[link=https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-05-13/elon-musk-conveniently-ignored-bitcoin-s-inconvenient-truth?srnd=premium]Elon Musk Conveniently Ignored Bitcoin’s Inconvenient Truth[/link][/h3]
So while its an encouraging development to see Musks latest tweet [link=https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-12/musk-says-tesla-suspending-bitcoin-purchases-citing-energy-use?cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business&utm_content=business&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&sref=jKx7unHh]acknowledging[/link] Bitcoins inconvenient truth, namely that energy-inefficient mining algorithms by some measures consume more power than entire countries, the speed of his overnight conversion is a little discombobulating. Not least for the crypto fans hanging on Musks every word, who were stung by the $365 billion or so wiped off the markets [link=https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/13/bitcoin-btc-price-falls-after-tesla-stops-car-purchases-with-crypto.html]value[/link] following Musks decision to halt support for Bitcoin payments.
Taking the tweet at face value which is dangerous with [link=https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2018-226]a Pied Piper character like Musk[/link] suggests that the alternative energy facts being pumped into the room by Bitcoiners werent gaining traction.
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Teslas U-turn also suggests that the hype around the companys Bitcoin support may not have been worth the questions and doubts from institutional investors who are increasingly paying attention to environmental, social and governance factors. Can sustainability investors consider owning companies associated with crypto? UBS economist Paul Donovan [link=https://www.ubs.com/global/en/wealth-management/chief-investment-office/about-us/meet-the-experts/paul-donovan/2021/is-this-sustainable.html]wondered[/link] in February. Musk has made the question a little easier to answer, even if he says Tesla will still keep its own Bitcoin pile.
…
Musk has left just enough gas in the tank to avoid abandoning his crypto disciples completely. By leaving the door open to using tokens that are less wasteful than Bitcoin, hes hedging his bets on the future of money and reserved the right to keep trolling the internet as a result. On Tuesday he asked his followers whether Tesla should accept satirical Bitcoin spin-off Dogecoin, shortly after calling it a hustle on Saturday Night Live. Ethereum, meanwhile, aims to move away from a mining model based on computational work toward one powered by existing coin stakes. Alternative models are out there.
Still, the more Musk blends payment U-turns, social-media memes and stand-up comedy, the harder it will be to detect where the future of money ends and the hustle begins. Which might be the whole point.
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[link=https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1392950720979030019]https://twitter.com/elonm…us/1392950720979030019[/link]
Musk again this evening: To be clear, I strongly believe in crypto, but it cant drive a massive increase in fossil fuel use, especially coal-
Quote from dergon
[link=https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1392950720979030019]https://twitter.com/elonm…us/1392950720979030019[/link]
Musk again this evening: To be clear, I strongly believe in crypto, but it cant drive a massive increase in fossil fuel use, especially coal
the problem is that anytime this jerk speaks it moved the crypto markets 10%. How can a real currency see 10% flux based on one dude chirping on twitter. At what point is it manipulating those markets also.
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Quote from dergon
[link=https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1392950720979030019]https://twitter.com/elonm…us/1392950720979030019[/link]
Musk again this evening: To be clear, I strongly believe in crypto, but it cant drive a massive increase in fossil fuel use, especially coal
Yeah you can. Especially since it doesn’t matter. He’d rather ruin entire ecologies from Lithium mining but never talk about that. The lies are always weird, not to mention that for some reason this comes up now, not a year ago, or 3 years ago, etc.-
The mining stuff has been debunked, it’s just a hot topic for naysayers and retards who don’t want to do any real research, with pre determined conclusions.
[link=https://twitter.com/nic__carter/status/1392971356686405634]https://twitter.com/nic__…us/1392971356686405634[/link]
The elites are fundamentally dishonest. Like with the NBA, not a peep about China, ever.-
Or this, which is the reality
[link]https://t.co/o7cAqCxQwu?amp=1[/link]-
Oh weird so youre saying elites control and manipulate crypto now too?
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Quote from AngryBirds
Oh weird so youre saying elites control and manipulate crypto now too?
They do. Anytime they say or tweet anything there’s large moves in value.
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So much for that decentralized currency controlled by the people that isnt prone to market manipulation then
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I do share some of Elon Musk’s views. I don’t think he is doing this on purpose or trying to manipulate the market. Some of his own views are conflicted, that’s for sure. Anyone with some programming background can tell you that cryptocurrency is a work of genius. Unfortunately, truth is it is also damaging to the environment.
Cryptocurrency is still a technology in its infancy. I think the sidechain technologies will lessen its impact on global warming. And I’m sure it is continuously being improved on. I’m glad there are many smart people working on this. Blockchain is a powerful technology. It is not too farfetched to imagine a future where crypto mining will be coupled to carbon emissions, so miners don’t just compete for the largest compute with the cheapest energy resources.-
Removed due to GDPR request
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POS centralizes control — much like the fiat system. Therein, lies the rub.
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the detrimental effect to the planet and those that live on it is vastly greater with burning fossil fuels than mining lithium. no?
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Quote from turfwar
the detrimental effect to the planet and those that live on it is vastly greater with burning fossil fuels than mining lithium. no?
Absolutely not. You don’t think the Lithium requires all sorts of water (it does) and burning of “fossil fuels”? Have you seen what mines look like? Yet you tree huggers are against nuclear power plants and totally safe, ecological oil pipelines.
By the way, burning fossil fuels does ZERO to the environment [b]except [/b]help us grow more food and trees. That’s a bummer.
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Shakes head after prolonged eye roll
But laughing hard as well
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Removed due to GDPR request
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I agree. Kinda like the idea of PoS. PoW is not perfectly decentralized either. Today, only miners with dedicated hardware and live next-door to a coal plant can do any meaningful mining anyway.
So what if the more bitcoin you have generates more bitcoin? Just like conventional banking, if you put money in a savings account for a long time, don’t you deserve interest?
Quote from Geoffrey Firmin
I have to disagree, respectively.
From consensus.net:
With reduced barriers to entry and the elimination of concerns about minimizing electricity costs, [b]PoS networks are significantly more decentralized at the node level than PoW networks.[/b] Participation in a PoS chain requires only a non-zero amount of crypto, an internet connection, and a computer (or phone/tablet). That opens up the doors of participation and revenue generation to a much larger group of people. Additionally, economies of scale are far lower in PoS economics than PoW. In PoW systems, the more hash power a miner controlled, the greater the % of rewards he would be able to receive. In PoS, a validators % return stays constant whether she manages 1 node or 1,000.
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Quote from Geoffrey Firmin
I have to disagree, respectively.
From consensus.net:
With reduced barriers to entry and the elimination of concerns about minimizing electricity costs, [b]PoS networks are significantly more decentralized at the node level than PoW networks.[/b] Participation in a PoS chain requires only a non-zero amount of crypto, an internet connection, and a computer (or phone/tablet). That opens up the doors of participation and revenue generation to a much larger group of people. Additionally, economies of scale are far lower in PoS economics than PoW. In PoW systems, the more hash power a miner controlled, the greater the % of rewards he would be able to receive. In PoS, a validators % return stays constant whether she manages 1 node or 1,000.
That sounds like it’s from an ETH 2.0 sub. PoS always leads to more centralization…it’s inherent in the setup.
An often discussed point on many blockchain forums is that Proof-of-Stake always leads to centralization. The reasoning behind this is simple. The PoS system favors entities with a higher amount of tokens, above those with lower amounts. Meaning, that more substantial stakeholders end up with larger profit margins, and if rationally approached, he would keep his coins to increase the production ability. So a more substantial stakeholder grows faster than a small stakeholder. At a certain point, the cost of being part of the mining operation would start to be too high, causing small stakeholders to drop out, causing centralization.-
Can the formula for calculating the “stake” be weighted to discourage monopoly. Like diminishing returns as you accumulate more coins. Not trolling, honest question. You sound like you might know.
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Crypto is a bubble that will not end well.
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[link=https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-16/musk-implies-tesla-may-sell-or-has-sold-bitcoin-holdings?srnd=premium]Musk Implies Tesla May Sell or Has Sold Bitcoin Holdings[/link]
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The ones he said they wouldnt sell last week?
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Re: diminishing returns with increasing stake — yes, Cardano does this. I bought a little bit a little while ago — it’s done well and looks like it has potential.
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Incredible that Musk can manipulate crypto markets so much, with information that is already known. Too bad theres no regulation…
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Quote from vonbraun
Crypto is a bubble that will not end well.
Meaningless statement. What is “crypto”? You might as well substitute any other generic term for it, too and poof it’s all a “bubble”-
Bitcoin pretty much lost a third of its value in a month
Yet the lemmings continue to double and triple down
Sometimes its best to just admit you Fd up and move on
Macho ego talk just makes you poor and stupid
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I don’t own bitcoin. I own other things – again, cryptocurrency is more than bitcoin.
And it’s important to know that people pay *money*, in fact a lot of money, to *use* blockchains. That sounds like a business to me. -
Quote from Chirorad84
Bitcoin pretty much lost a third of its value in a month
Yet the lemmings continue to double and triple down
Sometimes its best to just admit you Fd up and move on
Macho ego talk just makes you poor and stupid
Retard speaks again, he can’t help himself. Of all the countless ups and downs of BTC (as an example), it is still YoY up 200%, better than any investment this fraud has made. What’s more, it’s only the guys that don’t own it that appear out of nowhere and root for its crash – even though they are like rats on the titanic as it goes up long term. Oh yeah, coincidence we never hear from them when it continues to be the greatest asset by far of the last decade.
Please not that this fraudster won’t address any of these [b]facts,[/b] because he is a deceiver and loves lies more than truth.-
Our resident Q-Anon poster is peeing down his leg as he loses more money after trying to buy high
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I mean cryptocurrency will not take any significant percentage of current M3 for a long long time. The current cryptocurrencies are mostly speculative investments fueled by greed and ignorance.
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I mean cryptocurrency will not take any significant percentage of current M3 for a long long time. The current cryptocurrencies are mostly speculative investments fueled by greed and/or ignorance. Most people investing now are just going to get their clocks cleaned.
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30% drop in a month
Many are already getting their clocks cleaned
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Many also made a ton of money. Kinda weird to only talk about one side of it
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There are many people making it rain in crypto. Btc going from 60k to 43k means little if you got in at 14k
Same with eth doing 10x in a year. If cost basis is 700 and it does 4300 to 3500 retracing, not a big deal. Looking for 10-20k potentially.
Not to mention Luna , ltc , link and so forth. 5x in 3mo Makes a 30 percent drop insignificantFor the record, Im more a 1-2x than 5-10x but a few fam
Members are 5-10x-
Its not the first Ponzi scheme people have profited off
It only screws the people holding the bag when it all crashes down
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Might not be a bad idea to cut your losses now
Just saying
Foolish pride and bravado is a good way to be poor
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You are kidding right. I have long predicted that the price will go down to the 30k ranges before it climbs again. Now’s the time to buy the dip.
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Hard to imagine China doesnt ban Bitcoin when they develop whatever state coin theyre working on
Hard to imagine the USA doesnt ban Bitcoin if it keeps being used as currency to finance attacks like we just saw with the oil pipeline
Hard to see a future for Bitcoin at that point
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Honestly the only nation that stands to lose from bitcoin is USA. Every other nation gains from fair trade if there is truly such a thing.
With the chinese state coin, china is trying to be like the US- own a world currency they can manipulate. They will fail. And then they’ll have no reservation to adopting bitcoin.
Quote from AngryBirds
Hard to imagine China doesnt ban Bitcoin when they develop whatever state coin theyre working on
Hard to imagine the USA doesnt ban Bitcoin if it keeps being used as currency to finance attacks like we just saw with the oil pipeline
Hard to see a future for Bitcoin at that point
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You cant have 100s of percent gains without the potential for enormous and fast losses.
Whereas stocks bonds, real estate have cash flows, bitcoin and crypto have none and are essentially a speculative popularity contest.
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Might not be a bad idea to cut your losses now
Just saying
Foolish pride and bravado is a good way to be poor
Those who held on to bitcoin over the years have done the best. Its a highly risky speculative asset with enormous drops over the years but has always recovered and then some.
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Wyckoff pattern of manipulation, predicted last month.
Low 30s at the lowest. Then no one will be seen here posting as it approaches 80k or higher by the end of the year. Mark this post.
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And look at the damage a SINGLE American can do with a tweet saying people cant buy his cars using Bitcoin anymore
Imagine that across a whole country
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I belly laughed when the Q-Anon poster above said Mark this post
The saying goes A fool and his money is easily parted
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This is not just from musk tweet. That is a really silly assumption.
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Removed due to GDPR request
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Look out below!
How long until the US regulates crypto due to potential systemic risk?
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BTC is for those with low-time preferences. If you have a 2-3 month or even 1 year investment horizon, I suggest you go on wallsteetbets subreddit or watch CNBC halftime report for the plays of the week.
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Quote from Waduh Dong
Look out below!
How long until the US regulates crypto due to potential systemic risk?
The fact that one dude can essentially run a pump & dump on an asset with such huge capitalization should scare regulators.
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You cant really regulate that but he isnt controlling crypto market near as much as you guys think. Doge maybe but not all of crypto.
This is like the misplaced GME robinhood anger, just dont understand the root issues and look for scapegoat.
His influence is a problem but a bigger issue is the exchanges allowing people to lever 100x which blows up in 100% of situations. There is a ton of data on how detrimental this is. 100x is just insane. Criminal.
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Note that US exchanges dont allow people to lever that much, it is mainly European and Asian based exchanges that do.
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Elon Musk has a history or market manipulation (see TSLA stock and “funding secured”). He isn’t an honest broker but there is a large cult that worships him. It’s more of an indictment on the lemmings that follow him than on a stock or an asset IMO.
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Really?
Were not talking about Tesla stock were talking about Bitcoin, the supposed future paradigm shifting decentralized oasis of money.
I would say its pretty damning that a mere tweet from one businessman expressing doubts sent it spiraling downwards
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This is like the misplaced GME robinhood anger, just dont understand the root issues and look for scapegoat.
Ummmmmmmm anger nooooooo
Laughter maybe but not anger
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Quote from AngryBirds
Really?
Were not talking about Tesla stock were talking about Bitcoin, the supposed future paradigm shifting decentralized oasis of money.
I would say its pretty damning that a mere tweet from one businessman expressing doubts sent it spiraling downwards
Yes, really. It is a nascent asset class. It is hyper volatile — down 40% this month but up 623000% since inception (if we are being honest and going to include the whole story). I don’t think we see true price discovery for another decade. Until that point, it will fluctuate wildly, but less so over time. More adoption and an American sponsored ETF will be some of the factors that lead to increased price stability. If one can’t zoom out and see the larger picture or stomach the volatility, or has a low risk appetite, then index funds is really the way to go.-
The larger picture is that its backed up by nothing
Thats why it will fail
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When will it fail ?
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After people get burned a few times
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Quote from Chirorad84
After people get burned a few times
More vomitus answers spewed out, again like a goat chewing cud-
As more people learn about bitcoin, will more people find out that it has no value? Not a store of value, not a means of exchange, not an inflation hedge. Next narrative is best asset for money laundering and tax evasion
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Quote from Chirorad84
The larger picture is that its backed up by nothing
Thats why it will fail
Chiro said the same thing about a Picasso or a Monet, I’m sure.
Those must be “bubbles” too – yet they don’t even have a network or help milions of people escape criminal governments.
Notice he’ll never respond to this because again, it is too good of a point that exposes his foolishness. Like the countless other times I did the same.
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Quote from ChuckI
Quote from AngryBirds
Really?
Were not talking about Tesla stock were talking about Bitcoin, the supposed future paradigm shifting decentralized oasis of money.
I would say its pretty damning that a mere tweet from one businessman expressing doubts sent it spiraling downwards
Yes, really. It is a nascent asset class. It is hyper volatile — down 40% this month but up 623000% since inception (if we are being honest and going to include the whole story). I don’t think we see true price discovery for another decade. Until that point, it will fluctuate wildly, but less so over time. More adoption and an American sponsored ETF will be some of the factors that lead to increased price stability. If one can’t zoom out and see the larger picture or stomach the volatility, or has a low risk appetite, then index funds is really the way to go.
You are asking these guys for honesty, Chuckl? LOL
Just know that you are correct because you have done your homework, and enjoy the ride with me.
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Do you think the over 1 trillion dollars of money that has invested in Bitcoin thought about these things ?
There have been multiple large drops of 40+% in BTC history. This is not the first.
Btc could be a fad and go away, I am not sure. I am more on the side of it it will not than I was 2 years ago.
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Its garbage and you are going to lose your butt
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You just keep talking about stuff you don’t know.
If you have 10 % of assets in something and it goes to zero, while that sucks it’s not really losing your butt. Ya if somebody has the majority of assets in crypto and it tanks they will be in trouble. People pursuing insane amounts of leverage, also in trouble, as I addressed earlier. 100x leverage does not work in any market in history for any asset for any period of time.
However you keep making all these naive statements like ” after it crashes people will realize it’s bs” and etc. Again, this isn’t the first time it’s tanked and has happened numerous times. While yesterday sucked for a lot of people, the world didn’t end.-
This is basically what it is
It has been really easy to make money since 2009
The Dow was around 7000 and today its 33,000 and change
Thats nearly 500%
Many people were late to this party so they are anxious to catch up
Probluis many of lived through late 90s and 2008
If you are investor living through those times you were very likely taught a lesson on losing money
Losing money teaches you lessons
I lost several grand on MCI worldCom and Lucent because they were the next big thing and you were an absolute know nothing fool if you didnt own it
Well both went bankrupt
And I learned
And my anonymous friends if you know everything about crypto and you are so so so much smarter than everyone…….. well …..it is now your time to learn what it is to lose
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This is basically what it is
It has been really easy to make money since 2009
The Dow was around 7000 and today its 33,000 and change
Thats nearly 500%
Many people were late to this party so they are anxious to catch up
Many of lived through late 90s and 2008
If you are investor living through those times you were very likely taught a lesson on losing money
Losing money teaches you lessons
I lost several grand on MCI worldCom and Lucent because they were the next big thing and you were an absolute know nothing fool if you didnt own it
Well both went bankrupt
And I learned
And my anonymous friends if you know everything about crypto and you are so so so much smarter than everyone…….. well …..it is now your time to learn what it is to lose
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Time to lose on crypto, as if it all crypto is the same. Just like your going to lose money on stocks.
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You know all telecom was different too
Who won?
Most all went bankrupt and the big boys bought them and their technology for cents on the dollar
…… and they actually had something of value to buy
Crypto has exactly what of value?????
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smart contracts are really overrated. Everyone acts like its this meteoric thing when it’s a very basic thing.
So Kpack is the dow a bubble? If you say the market is about to crash, at some point you will be right. If bitcoin is at 100k in a year, are you guys going to admit you’re wrong? This is the problem with this kind of thinking, when it doesn’t go you’re way you just double down and extend your timeline out. There’s never a discrete timeline like ” if BTC remains above 1 trillion in market cap by 2023, I will be wrong.” or something like that.
I can say apple is going to crash at some point, and it will. That doesn’t mean investing in apple right now is a bad idea.
My thoughts on crypto have been evolving and in terms of practical use I think less and less of it by the day, however I don’t necessarily think it’s price will go down. I will trade gummy bears if I think the price will go up.-
Is the Dow a bubble?
I dont know if the Dow is a bubble. My gut says perhaps slightly overvalued but not a bubble, but I will tell you this and this is strictly my own philosophy derived from past wins and losses
1. You most certainly can lose money and its not fun
2. You have to be very very lucky to pick the next Amazon or Apple when the technology is in its infancy
3. Best way to beat the markets is to invest in good solid companies that have a history of making money in good times and bad
At some point there will be a downturn as this party which has been going on since 2009 cant last forever…….. if you wish to avoid pain the avoid speculation
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Out of the thousands of coins, most wont be around in 10 years. Some that have practical utility like Etherium and some projects that have been built on it likely will. At least partially cutting out out the banks, centralized exchanges and other middlemen has great promise.
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Kpack eradicator is correct in his assessment that there is a major FOMO going on. The truth is the large returns of the last decade are already in the books and the next big thing may never materialize. Last 10-12 years have been fantastic and if you have been investing regularly you have likely made a small fortune. It is improbable that it will continue at this clip much longer and it is reasonable to expect subdued returns for a while going forward. The people who have missed out on this epic bull are trying to find a way to catch up which has led to widespread speculation. Id say tread carefully out there.
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Well yes, there is only so much money in the world, that is mathematical certainty that the pace can’t continue, but that doesn’t mean it can’t grow at a more reasonable level.
Just like apple can’t really 100x from here but obviously some random penny stock can (and the vast majority will go to 0 ). Market cap dictates what kind of moves are possible.
The leverage is the real issue. Between the exchanges that offer 100x leverage which again has never worked in any asset for any period of time not measured in seconds as well as these lending schemes used to pay out 8-10% interest on stablecoins which basically lend other people money to buy more crypto. The leverage is the main problem and why there is so much volatility. This is a 2 sided coin though because the leverage has also enabled the incredible % gains that everyone is interested in.-
I’m still wondering the value of Bitcoin other than some sort of “get-rich-quick” Libertarian fantasy scheme.
Krugman evaluation ¯\_()_/¯:
[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/20/opinion/cryptocurrency-bitcoin.html]https://www.nytimes.com/2…ocurrency-bitcoin.html[/link]
Bitcoin, the first and biggest cryptocurrency, was introduced in 2009. It uses an encryption key, similar to those used in hard-to-break codes hence the crypto to establish chains of ownership in tokens that entitle their current holders to well, ownership of those tokens. And nowadays we use Bitcoin to buy houses and cars, pay our bills, make business investments, and more.
Oh, wait. We dont do any of those things. Twelve years on, cryptocurrencies play almost no role in normal economic activity. Almost the only time we hear about them being used as a means of payment as opposed to speculative trading is in association with illegal activity, like money laundering or the [link=https://www.marketwatch.com/story/colonial-pipeline-confirms-it-paid-4-4-million-ransom-to-hackers-01621461312#:~:text=Multiple%20sources%20had%20confirmed%20to,to%20unscramble%20their%20data%20network.]Bitcoin ransom[/link]Colonial Pipeline paid to hackers who shut it down.
But Ive been in numerous meetings with enthusiasts for cryptocurrency and/or blockchain, the concept that underlies it. In such meetings I and others always ask, as politely as we can: What problem does this technology solve? What does it do that other, much cheaper and easier-to-use technologies cant do just as well or better? I still havent heard a clear answer.
Yet investors continue to pay huge sums for digital tokens. The values of major cryptocurrencies fluctuate wildly Bitcoin fell [link=https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-19/bitcoin-erases-all-gains-since-elon-musk-s-initial-big-embrace?srnd=premium&sref=qzusa8bC]30 percent[/link] Wednesday morning, then made up most of the losses that afternoon. [b]Their collective value has, however, at times exceeded [link=https://coinmarketcap.com/]$2 trillion[/link], more than half the value of all the [link=https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/K1NTOTL1IP000]intellectual property[/link]owned by U.S. business[/b]. [i](How does this make logical sense in any universe?)[/i]
Why are people willing to pay large sums for assets that dont seem to do anything? The answer, obviously, is that the prices of these assets keep going up, so that early investors made a lot of money, and their success keeps drawing in new investors.
First, crypto boosters are very good at technobabble using arcane terminology to convince themselves and others that theyre offering a revolutionary new technology, even though blockchain is actually pretty elderly by infotech standards and has yet to find any compelling uses.
Second, theres a strong element of libertarian derp assertions that fiat currencies, government-issued money without any tangible backing, will collapse any day now. True, Britain, whose currency was still standing last time I looked, went off the gold standard [link=https://michaelkitson.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/kitson-gold-standard-june-2012.pdf]90 years ago[/link]. But whos counting?
The good news is that none of this matters very much. Because Bitcoin and its relatives havent managed to achieve any meaningful economic role, what happens to their value is basically irrelevant to those of us not playing the crypto game.
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“Second, theres a strong element of libertarian derp assertions that fiat currencies, government-issued money without any tangible backing, will collapse any day now. True, Britain, whose currency was still standing last time I looked, went off the gold standard [link=https://michaelkitson.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/kitson-gold-standard-june-2012.pdf]90 years ago[/link]. But whos counting?”
Very much this. We haven’t seen a ton of Aunt Minnie “all fiat currencies fail” in the last few years. But it was a whole craze in 2009 as the US sped toward its hyperinflationary death spiral.
Venn diagram of the folks buying gold has a groad overlap. It’s why you’re seeing right-leaning media now filled with ads for bitcoin atms.
Doesn’t mean price won’t continue to go. “The market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”-
Well if you use words like technobabble to explain things, its hard to wonder how you can’t see it or if you’re objective?
This would be like if I called buffett a boomer for missing out on tech and underperforming in recent times.
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The attempt to link to libertarianism is strange and used by people to dissuade or rationalize why they didn’t take part.
It’s just throwing out a label with no objective criticism, something the left loves to do.-
Bitcoin is a Right/Left issue too?????
Whodda cudda known that?
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There are extremist views that fiat currencies may collapse. But most don’t think so. We have a long history with government issued money. They do work but a decentralized system is arguably better. Everything else is being decentralized. That’s the trend.
The 2009 crisis didn’t kill us but it did hurt us. Many lost chunks of their retirement funds. Many are rightfully furious. Take the auto industry for example. How were some of the companies allowed to go “bankrupt” and yet received large bailouts? Share prices went to zero, yet shareholders who believed in these companies and lost everything got nothing in return when these companies roared back to lives a few years later. Why is the government allowed to issue massive bailouts and finance that by printing more money (taxing everyone)?
History repeated again during the pandemic when large bailouts were given to airline companies. It made no sense. Isn’t our airspace cluttered with too many crappy airline companies already? Even Warren Buffet showed his displeasure about this and he’s a democrat. Why can’t we let some of them fail, so that contingency plans for events such as this be part of the strategy for companies to survive?
Quote from dergon
“Second, theres a strong element of libertarian derp assertions that fiat currencies, government-issued money without any tangible backing, will collapse any day now. True, Britain, whose currency was still standing last time I looked, went off the gold standard [link=https://michaelkitson.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/kitson-gold-standard-june-2012.pdf]90 years ago[/link]. But whos counting?”
Very much this. We haven’t seen a ton of Aunt Minnie “all fiat currencies fail” in the last few years. But it was a whole craze in 2009 as the US sped toward its hyperinflationary death spiral.
Venn diagram of the folks buying gold has a groad overlap. It’s why you’re seeing right-leaning media now filled with ads for bitcoin atms.
Doesn’t mean price won’t continue to go. “The market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
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