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  • SAULBKNYC_904

    Member
    May 1, 2009 at 7:26 am

    ORIGINAL: Frumious

    I have to disagree with the socialism especially as far as business ‘ownership’ is concerned. IMO, too many business “leaders” have gone catatonic and are also paying the costs of to many bad business decisions over too many years, correction, decades – while fabulously rewarding themselves to boot. Which businesses, banks and AIG? For banks, there is precident such as the S&L crisis in the late 1980’s. When the government comes into a bank & shuts it down, fires the Officers, what is that if not the government taking ownership. They clean it up and if possible put it back into private business again but have they ever kept ownership? What’s the difference between Citi & Bear, & Morgan between Truman “taking over” the steel industry or Reagan firing the air traffic controllers? Truman was too long ago, but Reagan was an Republican so it’s OK but Obama is a Democrat so it’s socialism? If the companies are too big to fail maybe the government should declare they are too big to exist. No company has the right to drag us down to oblivion because of excessive greed and bad business decisions. If they get “bailed out” should it be with no strings attached? Obama and Bush should give away hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars with no strings attached, no right to say, “You’re out of line & you’re fired!”? just because they royally screwed up & threaten to drag our and the world’s economies down with it? Just like any other incompetant or by ‘simply’ making multiple $trillions of dollars mistake, why should they be protected from being fired. If the companies were allowed to fail they would be out of a job anyway, except of course they’d get their golden parachute first.

     
    First off, the air traffic controllers are federal employees, so easier to fire them as the president…completely different than president having the ability to fire someone in private industry. 
     
    Second, the past bailouts have been negotiated over buisness plans (like now) with certain assets held by the gov as collateral.  the company were allowed to, as they were able (a judgement made by the company itself, not the gov) to pay back the money owed. Similarly afte the Sand Ls failed, the gov bought some of the bad assets and sold them off as things recovered at a profit.  Again, they did not buy the companies and impose themselves into the industry In the current situation, there were banks THAT DID NOT WANT THE MONEY, where FORCED to take it with all the strings attached..including gov ownership/control, and are NOT being allowed to pay the money back.  To me that is crossing the line as you have government forcing it self on a private company.   
     
    To be clear, there should be a negotiated purpose for the money (ie, for stabilization of the company/bank, not bonuses etc…btw, Obama’s crew with all their intervention, dropped the ball on that right?), but not a gov take over of the industry (ie out and out socialism).  Really, the pure capitalism would just let all these companies die and that would take care of the

    ORIGINAL: Frumious
    If you fear that Obama won’t let go, what’s your basis? Has the government kept any of these failed businesses before? Have they ever taken over a company on a whim? Was this all just Obama’s whim?

    If the private sector is paralyzed and sinking the world economies, the governments should do nothing because it is socialism? Maybe just cut some taxes would fix the problem? I don’t think so.

     
    In a word, yes…I am worried that the gov will not let them go.  Politicians are as greedy as those in buisness except for they write the rules in addition to having money and power.  It is not just Obama but the current mood in gov in general.  Honestly proposing placing GPS devices on every car to track them (for tax purposes at first but after….), forcing healthcare providers into computer records that will be open sorced to Medicare (ie the gov), controlling many of the largest banks and industries…all make me very very nervous.  Rome cheered when they took an emperor, Hitler was elected to office…it is a slippery slope that we have to be careful of….
     
    “Those who would give up freedom for security deserve and will get neither”-Thomas Jefferson

    ORIGINAL: FrumiousMy issue with Mistrad and public schools is not that I’m against private schools, but the Republican reflex of bashing public schools. Public schooling have historically been one of America’s greatest strengths & while not near perfect should be supported not automatically bashed. Low performance can be attributed to many factors, not just poor and uncaring districts and teachers but curriculums teaching religious “science” for example.

     
    LOL at the last comment.  I went to a religous affiliated (fundimentalist for that matter) private school (very well thought of in the city where I lived) and we had both chapel and religious classes daily. Some of these were overt bible study, some where comparitive religion, and some where ethics/philosophy classes.  Keep in mind that many of the students attended because of the schools reputation and not for the religious element. Creationism was NOT taught in the science classes and evidence for evolution, big bang etc were all presented in pretty much the same manner as when I was in college. What was discussed at the end of that section was the context of the known scientific evidence and its impact on Genesis etc.    For those who where Chirstian, it was very helpful to be exposed to all the scientific facts and theories and be involved in a discussion where it challenged them and allowed them to frame it in the context of their faith.  For those who where not, it exposed them to ideas that they will also come in contact with and at least gave them exposure….actually for a bunch of 15 yr olds (when population biology was taught) it was a pretty engaging series of classes from what I remember. 
     
    Regardless, did not seem to effect my education (have a PhD in neurosceince also).