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what is the average number of different positions rads have before retiring?
With more and more people moving around, is it common for rads to have 2 to 3 different positions before retirement?
Are the days of joining a group in your 30s and retiring with the same group in your 60s that common anymore?
Do you look with raised eyebrows if a radiologist tells you they are on their 4th/5th job?
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153 Replies
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The answer has been traditionally 3 jobs, with on average a move every 7 yrs. I’d expect that to be much higher today under corporatization/tele. The 30 years in, gold watch is becoming a dinosaur, as in other sectors.
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I’m hoping for 1 … if all things hold.
But I’m from an older generation. 23 years with the same group.-
Traditionally, doctors used to have their own practice. So it makes a lot of sense to stay in “YOUR practice” for a long time unless you have to move to a different location or unexpected circumstances happen.
But in this day and age that a lot of doctors are employees of a bigger health system, there is no such thing as staying in your own practice. People will change jobs easily since there is no attachment in the first place.
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Who bears the cost of all these moves? The radiologists.
In the past docs made the decision and docs bore the costs- docs owned their businesses as stated above. Little incentive to move.
Now administrators make the call and docs bear the cost. Expect more radiologist moves in the future.
This will apply to other specialties too.-
Radiologists have less control over staying with a single practice. Private practice groups are losing contracts to academic centers, corporations are taking the contracts (willfully or not) — consolidation is real (and I am not sure whether the current crisis will make it worse). On top of that, job markets are unstable leading to more radiologists moving at their own will. This doesn’t even take into account moving for other reasons (weather, family, etc).
The docs who are long term right now are probably academics who often have the largest safety nets or those grandfathered into solid/well-paying PPs, and those afraid of change.-
Quote from ChuckI
Radiologists have less control over staying with a single practice. Private practice groups are losing contracts to academic centers, corporations are taking the contracts (willfully or not) — consolidation is real
Are private practice groups really losing contracts to academic centers ?? I think this is exaggerated and prob only in big cities like DFW, Pittsburg, Atlanta, Houston…-
Quote from Voxel77
Quote from ChuckI
Radiologists have less control over staying with a single practice. Private practice groups are losing contracts to academic centers, corporations are taking the contracts (willfully or not) — consolidation is real
Are private practice groups really losing contracts to academic centers ?? I think this is exaggerated and prob only in big cities like DFW, Pittsburg, Atlanta, Houston…
Here in northern Ohio the two giant hospital systems (University/Case and Cleveland Clinic) have been gobbling up small hospital contracts for a couple of decades now.
This area was pretty much the tip of the spear for that regional consolidation.
When I came out of fellowship there were probably 8-10 small to mid-sized private groups you could join in the metro cleveland area. Many are now gone and the ones that remain are much smaller than they used to be, with mostly older partners just trying to hang on until retirement.
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Why would you want to stay at Practice A for 30 years when practice B down the street is offering you 10%. When Practice A needs you more, they will offer 10% more to bring you back (or practice C will, whatever).
The only reason we lose money in this transition (from small to large practices) is because we let them.
We bear the hidden costs without negotiating them.
5000k for CME was worth a lot more 10 years ago than it is today. We should be asking, neigh, demanding more.
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Quote from dergon
Quote from Voxel77
Quote from ChuckI
Radiologists have less control over staying with a single practice. Private practice groups are losing contracts to academic centers, corporations are taking the contracts (willfully or not) — consolidation is real
Are private practice groups really losing contracts to academic centers ?? I think this is exaggerated and prob only in big cities like DFW, Pittsburg, Atlanta, Houston…
Here in northern Ohio the two giant hospital systems (University/Case and Cleveland Clinic) have been gobbling up small hospital contracts for a couple of decades now.
This area was pretty much the tip of the spear for that regional consolidation.
When I came out of fellowship there were probably 8-10 small to mid-sized private groups you could join in the metro cleveland area. Many are now gone and the ones that remain are much smaller than they used to be, with mostly older partners just trying to hang on until retirement.
The Big get bigger in Northeast Ohio
University Hospitals acquiring the Lake Health system (subject to regulatory approval)
[blockquote] Lake Health has flagship hospitals in Willoughby and Concord as well as facilities in Auburn, Beachwood, Chardon, Madison, Mentor and Willowick, where we will maintain operations and services following completion of the merger. We welcome their caregivers, who will become UH employees and colleagues with full credit for their Lake Health service time.
We are especially glad to welcome the employed physicians and independent physicians affiliated with Lake Health, and offer them broader support that includes access to UH clinical trials, training and education.
UH will bring Lake Health resources that will benefit the communities served, including enhancements to facilities, equipment and services. Additionally, UH will provide leading-edge technology, innovative practices, strong clinical research and other initiatives that will complement and grow Lake Healths highly regarded clinical programs. The benefits gained through becoming part of UH will lead to greater value and lower costs of care for Lake Healths patients.
[/blockquote]-
This is why anyone considering a corporate job needs to negotiate tail insurance and make sure they will pay it. Otherwise move on. The acr job postings are littered with this junk and candidates still have the upper hand in these negotiations.
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4th job. Hopefully my last, but we’ll see. I have yet to “trade down,” so moving has consistently been to my benefit.
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I had 7 jobs my first 10 years out of residency and 1 these last 10 years. I never had to pay a tail from PP or employed positions. The locums company we worked for during residency let the med mal lapse as soon as we stopped moonlighting for them and never told us. We found out a few years later. The insurance company contacted them many times but never us. Malpractice insurance was part of the deal but when questioned they said you didn’t expect us to pay it forever did you.
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1 job, 10-13 years at this job. If I make it past 15 years, it will be my only full-time job.
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Ones job changes. I was in a 6 man group in the early 1990s that merged with a other and then constantly grew. We have 32 rads now. The job you have now will change dramatically in 20 years due to technology and market forces. It is what it is. Just keep truckin and focus on patient care.
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Quote from vonbraun
Ones job changes. I was in a 6 [b]man group in the early 1990s that merged with a other and then constantly grew. We have 32 rads now.[/b] The job you have now will change dramatically in 20 years due to technology and market forces. It is what it is. Just keep truckin and focus on patient care.
Someone did something right in your group management.
In my neck of the woods those groups that were 6 men in the 90s have all been either gobbled up or are down to 2 partners in their 60s holding on to one little hospital contract hoping to make it to retirement. -
Quote from dergon
Quote from vonbraun
Ones job changes. I was in a 6 [b]man group in the early 1990s that merged with a other and then constantly grew. We have 32 rads now.[/b] The job you have now will change dramatically in 20 years due to technology and market forces. It is what it is. Just keep truckin and focus on patient care.
Someone did something right in your group management.
In my neck of the woods those groups that were 6 men in the 90s have all been either gobbled up or are down to 2 partners in their 60s holding on to one little hospital contract hoping to make it to retirement.
Most of the business is not in the radiologists control. I have seen many blame radiologists for everything that happens in radiology.
Poorly run groups can destroy themselves quickly but well run groups can’t secure their futures.
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Why would you want to stay at Practice A for 30 years when practice B down the street is offering you 10%. When Practice A needs you more, they will offer 10% more to bring you back (or practice C will, whatever).
The only reason we lose money in this transition (from small to large practices) is because we let them.
We bear the hidden costs without negotiating them.
5000k for CME was worth a lot more 10 years ago than it is today. We should be asking, neigh, demanding more.
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That scenario is only relevant for employed positions. If you are planning to go from a PP to PP, that means 1-3 years workup at a significantly reduced salary and possible additional buy-in $ which makes the real track to partnership money up to a year longer. I used to think lawyers had it tough going from one state to another (new bar exam) but the barriers to entry in our profession can be much worse.
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****delete*** wrong thread
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btw Dergon, your posts are most informative. ++++.
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The mobility of radiologists to go from one practice to another has significantly diminished over the last couple of years. Once a corporate entity – like RP, Envision, vRad, MEDNEX, and other of these large corporate behemoths employ you – it is very difficult and very costly for you to find another job. They’re all in cahoots with their particular insurance companies with which they insure all of their physicians.
This is not only true of these corporate behemoths, but exists in other practices, including university/medical school groups, or even large/small hospitals. Many insurance companies allow you to work only in that state, and not in others.Once you decide to move from under their talons, you will end up having to pay thousands of dollars to buy up your tail insurance from that company. The new employer will not want to carry or pay any of your tail insurance.
That’s another reason that moving around from one practice to another is tough (unless you become an independent contractor and carry your own independent insurance policy which covers you throughout the USA), because once you work for the company, (in the words of Tennessee Ernie Ford in the lyrics to the song – Sixteen Tons), [b][i]”‘you owe your soul to the company store.”[/i][/b]
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Spot on
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4 jobs.
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23 years with one job for me btw.
Doubt that many people will replicate that anymore in this modern market.
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Quote from peehdee
With more and more people moving around, is it common for rads to have 2 to 3 different positions before retirement?
Are the days of joining a group in your 30s and retiring with the same group in your 60s that common anymore?
Do you look with raised eyebrows if a radiologist tells you they are on their 4th/5th job?
I know rads who have done full time locums for years, as in over 10 years. Is the how many jobs question still relevant?
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4 jobs, including military, present one 20 years (traditional small private practice)
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Almost 10 years out from fellowship, and on job#4. However each job has been in a different state and different part of the country for the most part and I always left on good terms and for a legitimate reason. You do lose money moving but with more experience I have found you can negotiate more to minimize this loss. Moving around (jobs/geography) is sorta a new normal and not unique to radiology. Def not like it was a generation ago.
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Three jobs, 11 years out of fellowship. First two groups lost their contracts to megagroups within a year of me leaving. I left for other reasons from both, but sensed the impending doom apparently.
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3 jobs, first was a good one but left after a year as location was not right. Second stayed for a long time, but burned out due to understaffing, bad call, and lack of professional development. Third job has been great, keeping my fingers crossed!!
More transitions than ideal, and each one does come with financial cost. But bad jobs come with personal and professional costs. I think the latter are far more important.
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2 jobs/28years.
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Two job changes. The first for better money, the second because I got bored with what I was doing.
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More than I’m happy about in 9 years, multiple reasons (location/wife/family/PE takeover).
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Quote from Nibbler
More than I’m happy about in 9 years, multiple reasons (location/wife/family/PE takeover).
Who could of guessed that RP would take over El Paso.
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Two job changes in almost 30 years. Impetus for both changes was deterioration of work environment. Somewhat interestingly (to me at least), second job change was back to original group. Without being too specific, things had changed in the decade I was away and I’d managed not to burn bridges such that made it palatable to go back.
IDK…. As far as changing jobs goes, the older I get the more the serenity prayer seems apropos, especially the last part about being able to know the difference between what you can change/control and what you can’t.
One thing I’ve noticed personally is that adaptability diminishes, sometimes shockingly, as one “matures” — have noticed it in other rads and, if I’m honest, in myself as well.
Another thing I’ve noticed from colleagues attempting to switch gigs as one gets to the tail end of a career is that once you”re past your 40’s age-discrimination is very, very real. Would like to keep doing my current gig for another 10 years or so (seems I’m one of the minority that actually enjoys my work, though I’ll admit the FIRE threads on AM are a very skewed sample) but if things go belly up at my current gig, not so sure I could or even want to start over somewhere else.
Used to be multiple job changes was a red flag; now, not so much it seems.
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“As far as changing jobs goes, the older I get the more the serenity prayer seems apropos, especially the last part about being able to know the difference between what you can change/control and what you can’t.”
^^ Yes.-
Too dumb to know what this means.
Quote from boomer
“As far as changing jobs goes, the older I get the more the serenity prayer seems apropos, especially the last part about being able to know the difference between what you can change/control and what you can’t.”
^^ Yes.
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Quote from peehdee
Too dumb to know what this means.
Quote from boomer
“As far as changing jobs goes, the older I get the more the serenity prayer seems apropos, especially the last part about being able to know the difference between what you can change/control and what you can’t.”
^^ Yes.
It means to me, do your job, chill out, and don’t sweat the nonsense you can’t change.-
Quote from boomer
It means to me, do your job, chill out, and don’t sweat the nonsense you can’t change.
One of things I have noticed about unhappy rads in these last decades is that there is one nearly universal trait …
They are almost to a person obsessed with the notion that someone else might have a better deal than them.
That some partners might take less call or have easier access to moonlighting. Or that some specialists in other departments may get better pay or treatment by administrators. Or that some radiologists at a different practice they know of are getting more vacation and more $/RVU.
What perceived unfairness gets their primary focus varies… but they’re always focused on the belief that they are getting a raw deal.
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Some unhappy rads also feel like radiology has turned into a sweatshop assembly line with ever increasing workloads, understaffing and increasing corporate control.
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Quote from dergon
…..
They are almost to a person obsessed with the notion that someone else might have a better deal than them.That some partners might take less call or have easier access to moonlighting. Or that some specialists in other departments may get better pay or treatment by administrators. Or that some radiologists at a different practice they know of are getting more vacation and more $/RVU.
What perceived unfairness gets their primary focus varies… but they’re always focused on the belief that they are getting a raw deal.
Yah, covert narcissism is a bee-yotch and almost as frustrating to deal with as passive-aggression.
Somewhat off topic but I’ve seen the above play out most malignantly and dramatically over the issue of full time vs. part time. Usually the part timer want to work fewer nights and weekends and even when the deal is (in my opinion) pretty well shafting the part timer (e.g. lower pay, less vacation, etc.) and all the full timers have signed off on it, after a time there’s always one full timer that ends up feeling like he/she is actually the one getting shafted. These types are like cancer and can metastasize so that others in the group become unhappy. Ugly.
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To provide balance, there is also some rads that are profoundly unhappy because they feel like they can’t change anything, failing to see how they could increase their influence through diligence and fix a few of the items that bother them the most. This mentainity usually spills into their personal lives too. Helplessness is a terrible disease. Contentment through continual small wins takes effort but is worth it.
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3 jobs for me so far 6 years out. Current one is tele and probably not going back. Will ask my group for a raise in the next year or two, would be very happy to continue with these guys forever, would only change for significantly more money which is unlikely. Underpaid by about 40k but certainly not worth changing to a potentially much ****tier job.
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On my first 1st job , 10+ years out. I trust our group leadership, they put up with my shenanigans.
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Quote from Flounce
On my first 1st job , 10+ years out. I trust our group leadership, they put up with my shenanigans.
Beta, There are no shenanigans- in SoCal you would be summarily replaced.
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The ideal radiologist is a beta radiologist.
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I have no idea what this means.
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Quote from Flounce
I have no idea what this means.
beta male- a subordinate male animal in a particular group.
I am trying to be more beta- much easier for some.-
Just to confirm. Youre calling me a subordinate male because Ive been fortunate enough to have only one job since finishing training?
Sounds kind of juvenile, but Ill play. Given your knowledge of what happens in SoCal, why dont you PM me an address in SoCal and a time next weekend, and Ill come out so you can tell me to my face what a beta I am. Try me.
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Quote from Flounce
Just to confirm. Youre calling me a subordinate male because Ive been fortunate enough to have only one job since finishing training?
Sounds kind of juvenile, but Ill play. Given your knowledge of what happens in SoCal, why dont you PM me an address in SoCal and a time next weekend, and Ill come out so you can tell me to my face what a beta I am. Try me.
I appologize. I think rads in general have to be this way to survive. Nothing against you in particular. I have found that those who stay in one job ALWAYS say yes- The beta male, so to speak.
Based on what you have said about your size you would probably clean my plow. LOL-
Apology accepted.
Many reasons why someone might leave a job and go to another, be it the fault of the group, fault of the radiologist, a poor fit, loss of a contract, spouse unhappy with geography, etc. I think it’s hard to draw conclusions about a radiologist simply based on whether they’re on their first or third job. Though it’s safe to say jumping around 5+ groups doesn’t look good.
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We all have bosses, one way or another.
You have your own surgical center? Then the insurance companies are your bosses.
You have a cash-only practice? Then the patients are your bosses.Unless you are Steve Jobs or you have invented a life-changing product, part of your success will be tied to being subordinate at its right time and right place. Human society is not like a Jungle that the Alpha one can do whatever he wants. Even if you are the president of the US and you don’t submit to the rules and social norms, you will be easily kicked out of your job and even out of social media (for right or wrong).
So. yes. A successful radiologist and in general a successful professional is the one who submits to the norms and regulations. You can call it beta or whatever you want.
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Godwin’s corrolary. Anyone who calls someone a beta on an anonymous internet forum is chickensh*t.
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Quote from Hospital-Rad
We all have bosses, one way or another.
You have your own surgical center? Then the insurance companies are your bosses.
You have a cash-only practice? Then the patients are your bosses.Unless you are Steve Jobs or you have invented a life-changing product, part of your success will be tied to being subordinate at its right time and right place. Human society is not like a Jungle that the Alpha one can do whatever he wants. Even if you are the president of the US and you don’t submit to the rules and social norms, you will be easily kicked out of your job and even out of social media (for right or wrong).
So. yes. A successful radiologist and in general a successful professional is the one who submits to the norms and regulations. You can call it beta or whatever you want.
Of course everyone has to follow rules- that is not the point. Who gets to make the rules? Not the radiologist.
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I don’t like this beta male position more than anyone else. It makes me sick actually. Watch your partners- how many speak out to powerful surgeons or administrators? How many are meek and quiet?
In Radiology only the betas survive. -
I appologize. I think rads in general have to be this way to survive. Nothing against you in particular. I have found that those who stay in one job ALWAYS say yes- The beta male, so to speak.
Wow. This is just so grossly misinformed that I am shaking my head.
Some of us are good at our job, are able to successfully negotiate workplace politics, strive to develop quality professional working relationship within and outside of our departments, and thus are able create excellent careers for ourselves while only having one employer.
Being able to be successful in one job takes skill. I have spent 24 years navigating a very complex landscape … and have made my way to being a section chief, maintaining my leadership position while at the same time negotiating part-time status that gives me a work/life balance unlike most other rads. That happened *because* I have held one position and spent decades building up good will and respect. And now I’m a “beta” because of that success?!
Your post is genuinely insulting. .. whether you meant it for Flounce or for me or whoever.
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Quote from dergon
I appologize. I think rads in general have to be this way to survive. Nothing against you in particular. I have found that those who stay in one job ALWAYS say yes- The beta male, so to speak.
Wow. This is just so grossly misinformed that I am shaking my head.
Some of us are good at our job, are able to successfully negotiate workplace politics, strive to develop quality professional working relationship within and outside of our departments, and thus are able create excellent careers for ourselves while only having one employer.
Being able to be successful in one job takes skill. I have spent 24 years navigating a very complex landscape … and have made my way to being a section chief, maintaining my leadership position while at the same time negotiating part-time status that gives me a work/life balance unlike most other rads. That happened *because* I have held one position and spent decades building up good will and respect. And now I’m a “beta” because of that success?!
Your post is genuinely insulting. .. whether you meant it for Flounce or for me or whoever.
Congrats on having one job. That is a good thing and difficult to accomplish. You don’t feel like a beta male. Fine. I do.
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What some rads call “negotiating” others call keeping one’s mouth shut.
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Quote from drad123
What some rads call “negotiating” others call keeping one’s mouth shut.
As far as long term life advice, I think “keeping on’e mouth shut” is about as good as it gets.
I’m not very good at it, but I try.
[i]Tao 56:[/i]
[i]Those who know do not talk.[/i]
[i]Those who talk do not know.[/i]
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‘Negotiating’ is also one of the 5 stages of grief….
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Quote from dergon
I appologize. I think rads in general have to be this way to survive. Nothing against you in particular. I have found that those who stay in one job ALWAYS say yes- The beta male, so to speak.
Wow. This is just so grossly misinformed that I am shaking my head.
Some of us are good at our job, are able to successfully negotiate workplace politics, strive to develop quality professional working relationship within and outside of our departments, and thus are able create excellent careers for ourselves while only having one employer.
Being able to be successful in one job takes skill. I have spent 24 years navigating a very complex landscape … and have made my way to being a section chief, maintaining my leadership position while at the same time negotiating part-time status that gives me a work/life balance unlike most other rads. That happened *because* I have held one position and spent decades building up good will and respect. And now I’m a “beta” because of that success?!
Your post is genuinely insulting. .. whether you meant it for Flounce or for me or whoever.
Wow. I touched a raw nerve.
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Quote from drad123
Wow. I touched a raw nerve.
No. You were just acting like a jerk.-
Ending up in a good job likely means you did something good, ie you worked hard and impressed people or you did your research ahead of time , etc etc.
Different strokes for different folks. Some people like their situations and where they live.
Being too agreeable is definitely not ideal but staying in one place or job for a while doesnt mean you are too agreeable.
As said above you have to know when you can push and when you cant
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Quote from IR27
Ending up in a good job likely means you did something good, ie you worked hard and impressed people or you did your research ahead of time , etc etc.
Luck or skill?
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Also possible
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Quote from drad123
Quote from dergon
I appologize. I think rads in general have to be this way to survive. Nothing against you in particular. I have found that those who stay in one job ALWAYS say yes- The beta male, so to speak.
Wow. This is just so grossly misinformed that I am shaking my head.
Some of us are good at our job, are able to successfully negotiate workplace politics, strive to develop quality professional working relationship within and outside of our departments, and thus are able create excellent careers for ourselves while only having one employer.
Being able to be successful in one job takes skill. I have spent 24 years navigating a very complex landscape … and have made my way to being a section chief, maintaining my leadership position while at the same time negotiating part-time status that gives me a work/life balance unlike most other rads. That happened *because* I have held one position and spent decades building up good will and respect. And now I’m a “beta” because of that success?!
Your post is genuinely insulting. .. whether you meant it for Flounce or for me or whoever.
Congrats on having one job. That is a good thing and difficult to accomplish. You don’t feel like a beta male. Fine. I do.
After all that you back down? Jeez.
A lot of these guys are good radiologists, I presume, but most are pssies, yes. So what, they are doctors anyhow. For the love of god, they must be blubber butts too because some of the no BS guys even feared the crazy 0.3% killer virus as if it were ebola on a flying leprechaun’s back out to get his lucky charms
Just know who you’re dealing with, dr
most people are inertia driven. few believe in anything. most fear death – the most pathetic display I’ve seen of fear and being a pssy as an American I have seen the past year and it ain’t anything close
these are the same guys that ruined women for the rest of the country by beta bux’ing it to all the mediocre casts of women in the ussa-
Quote from Casino Royale
After all that you back down? Jeez.
A lot of these guys are good radiologists, I presume, but most are pssies, yes. So what, they are doctors anyhow. For the love of god, they must be blubber butts too because some of the no BS guys even feared the crazy 0.3% killer virus as if it were ebola on a flying leprechaun’s back out to get his lucky charms
Just know who you’re dealing with, dr
most people are inertia driven. few believe in anything. most fear death – the most pathetic display I’ve seen of fear and being a pssy as an American I have seen the past year and it ain’t anything close
these are the same guys that ruined women for the rest of the country by beta bux’ing it to all the mediocre casts of women in the ussa
Go play somewhere else. Isn’t there an InCel reddit thread somewhere that requires your contribution ?-
It’s some weird loser can’t get laid nerd lingo I can’t penetrate. Something something about him having small man part is the gist of it I believe.
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This is a problem with online communities. From behind a screen, it’s easy for guys to be insulting, speak loosely and bluster with no repercussion. In real life, those are fighting words and you either train & spar regularly – grapplers and strikers – or you simply don’t.
For the most part, this forum has been really great and helpful.-
The woman bashing thing is really strange
Must be a lot of rejection in his past
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Strange and embarrassing frankly.
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If you have a big ego, think ur an Alpha, and need ur job to satisfy ur pride – why would u go into Rads? Rads is a job where you check ur ego at the door of the reading room. But to honest, ego is a destructive force in ones life and will cause a person a great deal of suffering and misery. In that sense, Rads teaches you extremely valuable life lessons. Ego is an extremely toxic force and very destructive.
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Most radiologists are beta males. Most of us have little in common with the likes of Michael Jordan, Steve Jobs or Elon Musk. We get up at the crack of dawn to get our kids ready for school, we show up to work on time, coffee in hand, and we grind the list faithfully while trying to keep our referrers, patients and administrators happy.
Now, in American culture being a beta male is somehow seen as a bad status, which is an interesting thing when you consider that beta males are the foundations of civil society. I say, be proud of being of a beta.
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This concept of alpha and beta males in people seems nebulous, and if real, of questionable utility.
The above post (re: Michael Jordan, Steve Jobs, etc) suggests that the defining factor of being an alpha male includes wealth and fame. It seems to me that the shared qualities that got those three individuals to where they are include hard work, attention to detail, and beyond that, being the recipient of a good dose of luck. Is that how alpha male is defined on Reddit or whoever defines these things?
In any case, those same qualities are exhibited by many physicians. Taking wealth and fame out of the picture, Michael Jordan is an adult who plays a childs game to entertain people for a living, compared to every ICU nurse in the country who wakes up early and cares for ill people for a living. Elon Musks erratic behavior would have doomed another CEO and is not to imitated by others in his position.
Alpha male / beta male classification – from what Im reading – seems more useful in describing behavior in packs of apes and such, and as it pertains to people, seems to be the preoccupation of Internet dwelling teenagers who have trouble with women, who got their lunch money taken every day in grade school, and have never obtained a postgraduate degree, been considered a leader by their peers, volunteered their time at a shelter, remained faithful to a woman, or buried a child.
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Quote from Flounce
This concept of alpha and beta males in people seems nebulous, and if real, of questionable utility.
The above post (re: Michael Jordan, Steve Jobs, etc) suggests that the defining factor of being an alpha male includes wealth and fame. It seems to me that the shared qualities that got those three individuals to where they are include hard work, attention to detail, and beyond that, a good dose of luck. Is that how alpha male is defined on Reddit or whoever defines these things?
In any case, those same qualities are exhibited by many physicians. Taking wealth and fame out of the picture, Michael Jordan is just an adult who plays a childs game for a living, compared to every ICU nurse in the country who wakes up early and cares for ill people for a living. Elon Musks erratic behavior would have doomed another CEO and is not to imitated by others in his position.
Alpha male / beta male classification – from what Im reading – seems more useful in describing behavior in packs of apes and such, and as it persons to people, seems to be the preoccupation of Internet dwelling teenagers who cant get a date, who get their lunch money taken everyday by billy, and have never held a steady, obtained a postgraduate degree, volunteered at a shelter, remained faithful to a woman, nor buried a child.
read this:
[link=https://www.timsquirrell.com/blog/2018/5/30/a-definitive-guide-to-incels-part-two-the-blackpill-and-vocabulary]https://www.timsquirrell….ackpill-and-vocabulary[/link]
A definitive guide to Incels part two: the A-Z incel dictionary[/h2]-
Being a beta is nice until the VC people come to take your lunch money.
What then? Just be glad you have a job? -
Quote from dergon
read this:
[link=https://www.timsquirrell.com/blog/2018/5/30/a-definitive-guide-to-incels-part-two-the-blackpill-and-vocabulary]https://www.timsquirrell….ackpill-and-vocabulary[/link]
A definitive guide to Incels part two: the A-Z incel dictionary
This is sick.Honestly, I feel these people need therapy and social support. Behind all this weirdness, I can see bunch of lonely jobless immature guys who are sexually oppressed and can cause a lot of trouble for the society. Last year, the amount of violence in this country skyrocketed and many sociologists believe it was due to boredom and lack of “social life”.
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Quote from Flounce
This concept of alpha and beta males in people seems nebulous, and if real, of questionable utility.
The above post (re: Michael Jordan, Steve Jobs, etc) suggests that the defining factor of being an alpha male includes wealth and fame. It seems to me that the shared qualities that got those three individuals to where they are include hard work, attention to detail, and beyond that, being the recipient of a good dose of luck. Is that how alpha male is defined on Reddit or whoever defines these things?
In any case, those same qualities are exhibited by many physicians. Taking wealth and fame out of the picture, Michael Jordan is an adult who plays a childs game to entertain people for a living, compared to every ICU nurse in the country who wakes up early and cares for ill people for a living. Elon Musks erratic behavior would have doomed another CEO and is not to imitated by others in his position.
Alpha male / beta male classification – from what Im reading – seems more useful in describing behavior in packs of apes and such, and as it pertains to people, seems to be the preoccupation of Internet dwelling teenagers who have trouble with women, who got their lunch money taken every day in grade school, and have never obtained a postgraduate degree, been considered a leader by their peers, volunteered their time at a shelter, remained faithful to a woman, or buried a child.
Flounce is right here. You guys hate the fun and bluster of my posts, but you fail to see most of the insight because most of you have been propagandized your whole life and acculturated to lies. The essence of Alpha is virtue and telling the truth. As Flounce says and knows, it’s not some annoying competitiveness and playing a child’s game like Michael Jordan, unless he acts with integrity and virtue otherwise. The latter is questionable, I’ll just leave it at that.
The problem is that women in the west don’t reward integrity, hard work and virtue. Period. If they did, you wouldn’t see what you see.
Ok, he who has ears to hear. But most of you will just keep parroting the lies, since you are beta when it comes to worrying about what others think and omg what if you offend them with the truth. Lying hurts them more, actually, and sadly no real men end up standing up for the truth.
I write checks my body can cash, but I don’t go looking for trouble. Flounce plays the compromise card, but knows all too well that if he has a daughter i this culture, he better watch out if she can’t get an arranged marriage like he did. And I think that’s a good thing … why? It proves my position on all of this.
Catch-22, gotcha.-
Is it really true that you are only 5 ft 7
Hahahaha
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Casino Royale, a serious question for you. What is your age?
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He is 5 ft 7
Claims he writes checks his body can cash
Then goes on to berate women
So basically he claims he is physically superior to a woman
Cashin those checks
What a little little man
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Quote from sandeep panga
Casino Royale, a serious question for you. What is your age?
What would you guess, Dr. Panga? -
Quote from Casino Royale
Quote from sandeep panga
Casino Royale, a serious question for you. What is your age?
What would you guess, Dr. Panga?
Well, that is not how to answer a question. -
Quote from Casino Royale
Quote from sandeep panga
Casino Royale, a serious question for you. What is your age?
What would you guess, Dr. Panga?
16
Maybe 18
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Quote from Flounce
Elon Musks erratic behavior would have doomed another CEO and is not to imitated by others in his position.
Interesting observation. I have wondered about this. Trump was the same way.
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Quote from golden gate
Most radiologists are beta males. Most of us have little in common with the likes of Michael Jordan, Steve Jobs or Elon Musk. We get up at the crack of dawn to get our kids ready for school, we show up to work on time, coffee in hand, and we grind the list faithfully while trying to keep our referrers, patients and administrators happy.
Now, in American culture being a beta male is somehow seen as a bad status, which is an interesting thing when you consider that beta males are the foundations of civil society. I say, be proud of being of a beta.
Most people in medicine are beta. Who is the alpha in the hospital ?
– The surgeon who has to say ‘yes please’ to every crap referral from some primary care noctor in the hopes of picking up some of the well paying work down the line ?
– The ER doc who is working for the third staffing company in 5 years with each of the squirrels that run the companies taking a bigger bite of his check ?
– The radonc who is one chemo drug away from becoming obsolete ?
.
.
There used to be some alpha surgeons in the university setting, but these days, they all cower when the assistant deputy dean of quality control informs them about their lagging Press Gainey score or when some nursing council holds a quality review of their work.
Its medicine, a service job. There are some bloviators in every hospital, but no alphas to be seen anywhere.-
In reply to drad123
I post intermittentlyThis actually is a good thread
If I may I can probably add some insight
6-7 years ago I late 40s I was totally fried and burned out
Flirted with quitting rads altogether.
I was in a pretty good stable medium sized group making really high end bucks. Time off was decent but when we worked we beat the hello out of ourselves. That coupled with administrative duties I was totally fried mentally
Home life suffered . Stress was all time high
Also lived in a real toilet bowl part of country northern Appalachia made everything worse
Basically I said F it Im out.
Bought a house on the gulf and decided to take a few months off while thinking things through
Fortunately I had some investments, real estate and some side businesses to keep an income stream going
Did occasional locums to keep up my IR skills
After 12-18 months I actually started missing it
Decided to go half time with a group a locumed with.
No call no weekends
Best thing I ever did.
My wifes happy. My stress level is low. I have time to do what I want and Im able to do a job that I really love
Moral of the story
Things arent always what they seem. Different phases of life require a different plan and you dont really know what that is until you hit that age
If you are like dergon and you are fortunate enough to have a job you live in a group you love in an area that you love and they can accommodate your evolving needs then thats the ultimate scenario
Probably really hard for most of us to have all those stars line up however
For the rest of us I offer the comment.
Save your money
Pay off your debts
Invest early and often
If you dont like where you live then change it. I found that really important over time
Happy wife happy l
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Not sure how wise it is to give out an address and arrange a fight with someone on an Internet forum. The only type of person who would travel and shown up for such a thing would be pretty nuts. A crazy person isnt someone you want to mess with – no matter how many BJJ classes youve taken.
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Quote from Upgrayedd
Not sure how wise it is to give out an address and arrange a fight with someone on an Internet forum. The only type of person who would travel and shown up for such a thing would be pretty nuts. A crazy person isnt someone you want to mess with – no matter how many BJJ classes youve taken.
lol -
Quote from kpack123
Also lived in a real toilet bowl part of country northern Appalachia made everything worse
Basically I said F it Im out.
Living in northern Appalachia will put hair on your chest. Try the wind swept plains or the frozen north.
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Quote from kpack123
In reply to drad123
I post intermittentlyThis actually is a good thread
If I may I can probably add some insight
6-7 years ago I late 40s I was totally fried and burned out
Flirted with quitting rads altogether.
I was in a pretty good stable medium sized group making really high end bucks. Time off was decent but when we worked we beat the hello out of ourselves. That coupled with administrative duties I was totally fried mentally
Home life suffered . Stress was all time high
Also lived in a real toilet bowl part of country northern Appalachia made everything worse
Basically I said F it Im out.
Bought a house on the gulf and decided to take a few months off while thinking things through
Fortunately I had some investments, real estate and some side businesses to keep an income stream going
Did occasional locums to keep up my IR skills
After 12-18 months I actually started missing it
Decided to go half time with a group a locumed with.
No call no weekends
Best thing I ever did.
My wifes happy. My stress level is low. I have time to do what I want and Im able to do a job that I really love
Moral of the story
Things arent always what they seem. Different phases of life require a different plan and you dont really know what that is until you hit that age
If you are like dergon and you are fortunate enough to have a job you live in a group you love in an area that you love and they can accommodate your evolving needs then thats the ultimate scenario
Probably really hard for most of us to have all those stars line up however
For the rest of us I offer the comment.
Save your money
Pay off your debts
Invest early and often
If you dont like where you live then change it. I found that really important over time
Happy wife happy l
Great stuff! Sounds like you’re in a good place -
63 y/o retired from full time practice last year after 28 yrs with the same group, my first job out of fellowship. The group allowed me to work part time for one year as a salaried employee. This will end soon and if there is work available I will continue to work . No call , no holidays or weekends necessary although I would consider it by itself. The full monty of 11-12 hrs days, call and holidays was too much. I was burnt out for a few years and should have done this sooner. I am so much happier, stress level is low and anticipate getting back to my old laid back self from years ago, if that is possible.
What I have realized though is that I love radiology. I don’t want to stop being a doctor , I want it on my terms , if possible, and if not , well so be it. I hope to keep working part time in some capacity. -
Yes, radiology is the best specialty by far if you aren’t a cog
If you aren’t careful, outside pressures (wife, society, business culture) will try to goad you to work to an imbalance
Time >>> money, but most don’t think so or at least don’t act so -
Quote from Casino Royale
Yes, radiology is the best specialty by far if you aren’t a cog
If you aren’t careful, outside pressures (wife, society, business culture) will try to goad you to work to an imbalance
Time >>> money, but most don’t think so or at least don’t act so
The rich- time > money
The poor- money > time -
Ancient egyptians were black wtf does that even mean. What a weirdo
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Quote from drad123
Quote from Casino Royale
Yes, radiology is the best specialty by far if you aren’t a cog
If you aren’t careful, outside pressures (wife, society, business culture) will try to goad you to work to an imbalance
Time >>> money, but most don’t think so or at least don’t act so
The rich- time > money
The poor- money > time
I agree, 100% -
Quote from MODIOLUS
I don’t want to stop being a doctor , I want it on my terms , if possible, and if not , well so be it. I hope to keep working part time in some capacity.
Don’t we all want life on our own terms-
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Quote from fw
There used to be some alpha surgeons in the university setting, but these days, they all cower when the assistant deputy dean of quality control informs them about their lagging Press Gainey score or when some nursing council holds a quality review of their work.
Its medicine, a service job. There are some bloviators in every hospital, but no alphas to be seen anywhere.
Wisdom here by fw, no doubt. There used to be … more proof of my point. We all know what happened. My aim is to stop the lies, and some don’t like my style, but the point is to shock you out of the dream and web of lies that has led to more chaos that has no end. Abre los ojos -
Quote from fw
Quote from golden gate
Most radiologists are beta males. Most of us have little in common with the likes of Michael Jordan, Steve Jobs or Elon Musk. We get up at the crack of dawn to get our kids ready for school, we show up to work on time, coffee in hand, and we grind the list faithfully while trying to keep our referrers, patients and administrators happy.
Now, in American culture being a beta male is somehow seen as a bad status, which is an interesting thing when you consider that beta males are the foundations of civil society. I say, be proud of being of a beta.
Most people in medicine are beta. Who is the alpha in the hospital ?
– The surgeon who has to say ‘yes please’ to every crap referral from some primary care noctor in the hopes of picking up some of the well paying work down the line ?
– The ER doc who is working for the third staffing company in 5 years with each of the squirrels that run the companies taking a bigger bite of his check ?
– The radonc who is one chemo drug away from becoming obsolete ?
.
.
There used to be some alpha surgeons in the university setting, but these days, they all cower when the assistant deputy dean of quality control informs them about their lagging Press Gainey score or when some nursing council holds a quality review of their work.Its medicine, a service job. There are some bloviators in every hospital, but no alphas to be seen anywhere.
Keep drinking your right wing koolaid. Some are winning big. If you want names I will mention surgical subspecialists and hospital admin.
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Quote from Casino Royale
Quote from drad123
Quote from dergon
I appologize. I think rads in general have to be this way to survive. Nothing against you in particular. I have found that those who stay in one job ALWAYS say yes- The beta male, so to speak.
Wow. This is just so grossly misinformed that I am shaking my head.
Some of us are good at our job, are able to successfully negotiate workplace politics, strive to develop quality professional working relationship within and outside of our departments, and thus are able create excellent careers for ourselves while only having one employer.
Being able to be successful in one job takes skill. I have spent 24 years navigating a very complex landscape … and have made my way to being a section chief, maintaining my leadership position while at the same time negotiating part-time status that gives me a work/life balance unlike most other rads. That happened *because* I have held one position and spent decades building up good will and respect. And now I’m a “beta” because of that success?!
Your post is genuinely insulting. .. whether you meant it for Flounce or for me or whoever.
Congrats on having one job. That is a good thing and difficult to accomplish. You don’t feel like a beta male. Fine. I do.
After all that you back down? Jeez.
A lot of these guys are good radiologists, I presume, but most are pssies, yes. So what, they are doctors anyhow. For the love of god, they must be blubber butts too because some of the no BS guys even feared the crazy 0.3% killer virus as if it were ebola on a flying leprechaun’s back out to get his lucky charms
Just know who you’re dealing with, dr
most people are inertia driven. few believe in anything. most fear death – the most pathetic display I’ve seen of fear and being a pssy as an American I have seen the past year and it ain’t anything close
these are the same guys that ruined women for the rest of the country by beta bux’ing it to all the mediocre casts of women in the ussa
The guy with the most “sales” is also the guy with the most rejections.
There are tons of women out there. If things aren’t working just aim lower. 😉
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Quote from drad123
Quote from Casino Royale
Quote from drad123
Quote from dergon
I appologize. I think rads in general have to be this way to survive. Nothing against you in particular. I have found that those who stay in one job ALWAYS say yes- The beta male, so to speak.
Wow. This is just so grossly misinformed that I am shaking my head.
Some of us are good at our job, are able to successfully negotiate workplace politics, strive to develop quality professional working relationship within and outside of our departments, and thus are able create excellent careers for ourselves while only having one employer.
Being able to be successful in one job takes skill. I have spent 24 years navigating a very complex landscape … and have made my way to being a section chief, maintaining my leadership position while at the same time negotiating part-time status that gives me a work/life balance unlike most other rads. That happened *because* I have held one position and spent decades building up good will and respect. And now I’m a “beta” because of that success?!
Your post is genuinely insulting. .. whether you meant it for Flounce or for me or whoever.
Congrats on having one job. That is a good thing and difficult to accomplish. You don’t feel like a beta male. Fine. I do.
After all that you back down? Jeez.
A lot of these guys are good radiologists, I presume, but most are pssies, yes. So what, they are doctors anyhow. For the love of god, they must be blubber butts too because some of the no BS guys even feared the crazy 0.3% killer virus as if it were ebola on a flying leprechaun’s back out to get his lucky charms
Just know who you’re dealing with, dr
most people are inertia driven. few believe in anything. most fear death – the most pathetic display I’ve seen of fear and being a pssy as an American I have seen the past year and it ain’t anything close
these are the same guys that ruined women for the rest of the country by beta bux’ing it to all the mediocre casts of women in the ussa
The guy with the most “sales” is also the guy with the most rejections.
There are tons of women out there. If things aren’t working just aim lower. 😉
Good advice. I’m enjoying this thread. We have an unexpected “alliance” here, sorta. ha
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Quote from dergon
read this:
[link=https://www.timsquirrell.com/blog/2018/5/30/a-definitive-guide-to-incels-part-two-the-blackpill-and-vocabulary]https://www.timsquirrell….ackpill-and-vocabulary[/link]
A definitive guide to Incels part two: the A-Z incel dictionary
That is some weird stuff, like a club or echo chamber for boys and men who lack confidence and aren’t interested in gaining it but want to bond over it or take it up as an identity. All kids go through a phase of insecurity, it’s called adolescence. There’s a lot of good stuff on the internet they could turn to instead, like Jocko Willink’s content. If you are skinny, do barbell lifts and drink a gallon of milk a day. If you can’t win a fist fight, go sign up for BJJ and boxing for three years. If you don’t have money, study hard and get a job and save. If you are worried of being seen as weird, stop hanging out with other weirdos.
People who subscribe to this incel stuff shouldn’t be allowed to buy guns. On the upside, the ones who do probably don’t spend a lot of time training with them.-
Quote from Flounce
Quote from dergon
read this:
[link=https://www.timsquirrell.com/blog/2018/5/30/a-definitive-guide-to-incels-part-two-the-blackpill-and-vocabulary]https://www.timsquirrell….ackpill-and-vocabulary[/link]
A definitive guide to Incels part two: the A-Z incel dictionary
That is some weird stuff, like a club or echo chamber for boys and men who lack confidence and aren’t interested in gaining it but want to bond over it or take it up as an identity. All kids go through a phase of insecurity, it’s called adolescence. There’s a lot of good stuff on the internet they could turn to instead, like Jocko Willink’s content. If you are skinny, do barbell lifts and drink a gallon of milk a day. If you can’t win a fist fight, go sign up for BJJ and boxing for three years. If you don’t have money, study hard and get a job and save. If you are worried of being seen as weird, stop hanging out with other weirdos.
People who subscribe to this incel stuff shouldn’t be allowed to buy guns. On the upside, the ones who do probably don’t spend a lot of time training with them.
LOL. Flounce was ready to have a showdown at the So. K. corral over the term beta.
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Quote from drad123
LOL. Flounce was ready to have a showdown at the So. K. corral over the term beta.
You called me a beta from behind the safety of a keyboard to make yourself feel tough. I was gracious enough to offer you the opportunity to say it to my face, and you aren’t so tough after all. You apologized and I accepted your apology. But the offer stands. Your mouth needs to stop writing checks that your body can’t cash.
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It’s an anonymous radiology forum. Everyone needs to relax a bit. No one is going to get in a real physical fight over this. If you don’t like what someone posts, happily scroll on. Be the better person and don’t get too irritated by words. Just my thoughts.
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Quote from Flounce
Quote from drad123
LOL. Flounce was ready to have a showdown at the So. K. corral over the term beta.
You called me a beta from behind the safety of a keyboard to make yourself feel tough. I was gracious enough to offer you the opportunity to say it to my face, and you aren’t so tough after all. You apologized and I accepted your apology. But the offer stands. Your mouth needs to stop writing checks that your body can’t cash.
I don’t care what is masculine or feminine. Just pi$$ed that I have no say in the workplace. It wasn’t really about name calling.
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Funny thing is this
The guy who started this alpha male stuff
Well he is the guy with multiple user IDs who once claimed he was a very fit 5 ft 7 inch stud
I poop bigger turds than that
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Quote from kpack123
Funny thing is this
The guy who started this alpha male stuff
Well he is the guy with multiple user IDs who once claimed he was a very fit 5 ft 7 inch stud
I poop bigger turds than that
Kpack is back!
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In a way, he never left.
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Quote from Flounce
Quote from dergon
read this:
[link=https://www.timsquirrell.com/blog/2018/5/30/a-definitive-guide-to-incels-part-two-the-blackpill-and-vocabulary]https://www.timsquirrell….ackpill-and-vocabulary[/link]
A definitive guide to Incels part two: the A-Z incel dictionary
That is some weird stuff
You know it, brother.
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The question still remains- What defines the unicorn rad who stays in one job his or her whole career.
Luck?
Intelligence?
Negotiation skill?
Low expectations?
Fear of a new job?-
any or all of the above, who cares. If someone has one situation that is sufficient enough for them to remain in their whole career, I am happy for them.
Just like I don’t think someone is necessarily miserable if they have 10 jobs in their career. maybe their priorities change or they want a change of scenery. If that’s what they want, then more power to them.
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Quote from IR27
any or all of the above, who cares. If someone has one situation that is sufficient enough for them to remain in their whole career, I am happy for them.
Just like I don’t think someone is necessarily miserable if they have 10 jobs in their career. maybe their priorities change or they want a change of scenery. If that’s what they want, then more power to them.
True from your eyes and mine but what about employers? Is it true for them too?
There are less and less employers in radiology due to consolidation. The employers beliefs are becoming more important.-
Quote from drad123
Quote from IR27
any or all of the above, who cares. If someone has one situation that is sufficient enough for them to remain in their whole career, I am happy for them.
Just like I don’t think someone is necessarily miserable if they have 10 jobs in their career. maybe their priorities change or they want a change of scenery. If that’s what they want, then more power to them.
True from your eyes and mine but what about employers? Is it true for them too?
There are less and less employers in radiology due to consolidation. The employers beliefs are becoming more important.
Generally true, drrad. Why not find a decent private group to be a tele or IC for? It sounds like that would be more on your terms, or more ideal in a less ideal world overall (which I agree with).-
Quote from Casino Royale
Quote from drad123
Quote from IR27
any or all of the above, who cares. If someone has one situation that is sufficient enough for them to remain in their whole career, I am happy for them.
Just like I don’t think someone is necessarily miserable if they have 10 jobs in their career. maybe their priorities change or they want a change of scenery. If that’s what they want, then more power to them.
True from your eyes and mine but what about employers? Is it true for them too?
There are less and less employers in radiology due to consolidation. The employers beliefs are becoming more important.
Generally true, drrad. Why not find a decent private group to be a tele or IC for? It sounds like that would be more on your terms, or more ideal in a less ideal world overall (which I agree with).
I don’t like after hour leftovers. Day work is where the variety is.
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Quote from drad123
Quote from Casino Royale
Quote from drad123
Quote from IR27
any or all of the above, who cares. If someone has one situation that is sufficient enough for them to remain in their whole career, I am happy for them.
Just like I don’t think someone is necessarily miserable if they have 10 jobs in their career. maybe their priorities change or they want a change of scenery. If that’s what they want, then more power to them.
True from your eyes and mine but what about employers? Is it true for them too?
There are less and less employers in radiology due to consolidation. The employers beliefs are becoming more important.
Generally true, drrad. Why not find a decent private group to be a tele or IC for? It sounds like that would be more on your terms, or more ideal in a less ideal world overall (which I agree with).
I don’t like after hour leftovers. Day work is where the variety is.
I totally agree, but I think you can find a balance of something that isn’t overnights.
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Quote from Casino Royale
Quote from drad123
Quote from IR27
any or all of the above, who cares. If someone has one situation that is sufficient enough for them to remain in their whole career, I am happy for them.
Just like I don’t think someone is necessarily miserable if they have 10 jobs in their career. maybe their priorities change or they want a change of scenery. If that’s what they want, then more power to them.
True from your eyes and mine but what about employers? Is it true for them too?
There are less and less employers in radiology due to consolidation. The employers beliefs are becoming more important.
Generally true, drrad. Why not find a decent private group to be a tele or IC for? It sounds like that would be more on your terms, or more ideal in a less ideal world overall (which I agree with).
What is a decent private group?
In general I try to adapt to the job. I am very flexible on hours and what I do.
-being completely shut out of nucs or mr or mamms or IR- that doesn’t work for me.
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I post intermittently
This actually is a good thread
If I may I can probably add some insight
6-7 years ago I late 40s I was totally fried and burned out
Flirted with quitting rads altogether.
I was in a pretty good stable medium sized group making really high end bucks. Time off was decent but when we worked we beat the hello out of ourselves. That coupled with administrative duties I was totally fried mentally
Home life suffered . Stress was all time high
Also lived in a real toilet bowl part of country northern Appalachia made everything worse
Basically I said F it Im out.
Bought a house on the gulf and decided to take a few months off while thinking things through
Fortunately I had some investments, real estate and some side businesses to keep an income stream going
Did occasional locums to keep up my IR skills
After 12-18 months I actually started missing it
Decided to go half time with a group a locumed with.
No call no weekends
Best thing I ever did.
My wifes happy. My stress level is low. I have time to do what I want and Im able to do a job that I really love
Moral of the story
Things arent always what they seem. Different phases of life require a different plan and you dont really know what that is until you hit that age
If you are like dergon and you are fortunate enough to have a job you live in a group you love in an area that you love and they can accommodate your evolving needs then thats the ultimate scenario
Probably really hard for most of us to have all those stars line up however
For the rest of us I offer the comment.
Save your money
Pay off your debts
Invest early and often
If you dont like where you live then change it. I found that really important over time
Happy wife happy life
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Quote from drad123
The question still remains- What defines the unicorn rad who stays in one job his or her whole career.
Luck?
Intelligence?
Negotiation skill?
Low expectations?
Fear of a new job?
Or someone who does his homework and knows what he signs up for.-
Quote from fw
Quote from drad123
The question still remains- What defines the unicorn rad who stays in one job his or her whole career.
Luck?
Intelligence?
Negotiation skill?
Low expectations?
Fear of a new job?Or someone who does his homework and knows what he signs up for.
Care to enlighten us on what doing your homework means?
In my experience any radiology deal is always changing.
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Quote from drad123
Quote from fw
Or someone who does his homework and knows what he signs up for.
Care to enlighten us on what doing your homework means?
In my experience any radiology deal is always changing.
Not join a PP group, faculty practice or clinic unless you have a trusted source on the inside who knows how the place is run. Sometimes the deal changes, more commonly a group has a set of contracts for 30+ years.-
Quote from fw
Quote from drad123
Quote from fw
Or someone who does his homework and knows what he signs up for.
Care to enlighten us on what doing your homework means?
In my experience any radiology deal is always changing.
Not join a PP group, faculty practice or clinic unless you have a trusted source on the inside who knows how the place is run. Sometimes the deal changes, more commonly a group has a set of contracts for 30+ years.
This seems quite limiting.
How do these contacts join a group? Another trusted source? Is it trusted sources all the way down? What if we are not sure who we can trust? The so called Byzantine Generals problem.
I am never sure who I can trust.-
I got to know about my current job and was given the position because of a group partner who I knew from residency, she was a fellow when I was a resident. She told me about all the ins and outs of the group, and told me how it might be better or worse than some of the other local groups I was interviewing with. Many, at least half, of those I trained with got their first job the same way.
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Quote from drad123
This seems quite limiting.
It saves you from bouncing around until you stumble on a workable job. It’s the good kind of limiting.
How do these contacts join a group? Another trusted source? Is it trusted sources all the way down? What if we are not sure who we can trust? The so called Byzantine Generals problem.
Its an unbroken chain that goes back to Wilhelm Conrad Roentgen himself.
(its actually not required to be a chain. You just need to have one person on the inside that you know and who is willing to give you the information straight up)
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Quote from dergon
Wow. This is just so grossly misinformed that I am shaking my head.
Some of us are good at our job, are able to successfully negotiate workplace politics, strive to develop quality professional working relationship within and outside of our departments, and thus are able create excellent careers for ourselves while only having one employer.
Being able to be successful in one job takes skill. I have spent 24 years navigating a very complex landscape … and have made my way to being a section chief, maintaining my leadership position while at the same time negotiating part-time status that gives me a work/life balance unlike most other rads. That happened *because* I have held one position and spent decades building up good will and respect. And now I’m a “beta” because of that success?!
Your post is genuinely insulting. .. whether you meant it for Flounce or for me or whoever.
You don’t think you can be easily replaced?
If I remember right you were complaining about low RVU comp not too long ago. Did you ever communicate this to your employer?
How does one negotiate workplace politics? Always say yes or better yet say nothing at all?
The radiologist has no power. The VC vultures have discovered this and are circling above.
