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Quote from Radiology-291
Quote from Alwaysbereading
Quote from Radiology-291
Quote from Waduh Dong
Yes AI is a different form of intelligence and will likely never replace humans.
They will likely be copilots to human work.They cant fix hallucinations because they may not be a bug but a feature and they truthfully have no clue how these systems work. Its a black box.
They can’t fix the hallucinations…yet. the problem with radiology in a nutshell is there’s very little critical thinking involved. I honestly believed you dont need a medical education to do radiology. It’s just pattern recogntion unlike other fields like medicine and surgery.
Thank you for this, gave me a chuckle. You honestly believed that you didn’t need a medical degree to do radiology? Well I have practiced both radiology and internal medicine. I can tell you that radiology takes far more critical thinking than most of IM (especially outpatient). But both require a large amount of critical thinking (not knocking our IM colleagues, I don’t think complex hospital admissions can be replaced by AI either).
Whose opinion is worth more? Your clueless misconception that you seem to have no shame about broadcasting, or the opinion of people who have done both of the specialties we are discussing?
The more important point though is that this kind of thinking is how AI coders, software developers, their execs and the marketing/press component think. This is why they’ve hit such a brick wall with AI performance. They thought it would just be pattern recognition and you can so easily program an AI to perform pattern recognition, so it should with minimal training be able to do this? Honestly even a nonAI static algorithm, should be able to do pattern recognition tasks. Well they tried with breast CAD, breast CAD was forced utilization of a garbage product that no one thinks increases efficiency or accuracy.
Now with AI radiologists are more skeptical, they want to see the thing actually work, and it really can’t. It’s just a massive misunderstanding of nonrads of what rads do. The AI cannot critically think, therefore our jobs are one of the last to go. The NP/PA following some algorithm for back pain? Yes that can be replaced.
The difference is the patient in clinical medicine doesn’t always match the textbook. People are unique, there scans aren’t. Pancreatitis in person X is going to look the exact same in Person Y . You just look for these hypodensitiies on CT with irregular borders and bam, you got your diagnosis. Give me one example of critical thinking in radiology that you’ve used and I’ll say i am wrong.
Segmental pancreatitis- can look mass like
Acute on chronic pancreatitis
stable chronic fibrotic changes from prior episode of pancreatitis.
Extensive ascites from pancreatitis
pseudocyst with pancreatitis
plus minus pancreatic necrosis
pancreatic abscess
pseudoaneurysm
What about the elusive animal Hemosuccus pancreatitus?
This is quite a few variables- have you heard of combinatorial explosion?
AIs pull up your bootstraps- these calculations are going to take a while- perhaps longer than the known life of the universe.-
It is very clear to me that AI will be a Co-pilot type situation for Rads.
While you are reading a case, it is helping you out, measuring stuff etc. Pointing out and measuring nodules or lymph nodes etc.
It will lead us to become more efficient and increase our incomes. Volumes of imaging only increasing.
I’m bullish on Rads future.
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Quote from Waduh Dong
It is very clear to me that AI will be a Co-pilot type situation for Rads.While you are reading a case, it is helping you out, measuring stuff etc. Pointing out and measuring nodules or lymph nodes etc.
It will lead us to become more efficient and increase our incomes. Volumes of imaging only increasing.
I’m bullish on Rads future.
This is clear. The worry [i][b]then becomes[/b][/i] a human problem (always is) yet again, which is, how much do they abuse you to get that much more productivity out of you (and stand in as the license to be sued at higher volumes).
That’s the reality, and anyone who says AI can do anything remotely close to a human in radiology, quite frankly doesn’t know what AI is, or what radiologists know and do.-
What about neurologist +AI vs general radiologist
What about general surgeon+ AI vs general radiologist
What about pulmonologist+ AI vs general radiologist
The radiologist is falling out of favor-
Can we just ban this troll already?
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Quote from Radiology-291
What about neurologist +AI vs general radiologist
What about general surgeon+ AI vs general radiologist
What about pulmonologist+ AI vs general radiologistThe radiologist is falling out of favor
What about GI/general surgeon + AI vs general rad performing Barium enema?
Also is general surgeon + AI reading poly-trauma at 3 am?-
Why do we keep entertaining this person lol. The posts are just so stupid it’s not even offensive , just wild that someone has this kind of free time
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why not,
neurologist +AI vs neuroradiologist +AI
general surgeon+ AI vs body radiologist +AI
pulmonologist+ AI vs chest radiologist +AIespecially if the latter in each had additional training on the quirks with the respective algorithm, workflow dynamics, and the various failure modes. That’s like a no brainer.
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Quote from cobol
why not,
neurologist +AI vs neuroradiologist +AI
general surgeon+ AI vs body radiologist +AI
pulmonologist+ AI vs chest radiologist +AIespecially if the latter in each had additional training on the quirks with the respective algorithm, workflow dynamics, and the various failure modes. That’s like a no brainer.
Because why pay a panel of expensive radiologists (400k/year) for just to review some image findings that 99.9% of the time aren’t clinically significant.
Also, I have a friend that’s a hosptial neurologist and guess what, ANOTHER radiologist had to addend their reports because the neurologist caught a 4 mm stenosis vs clot in M2 that the radiologist read as completely normal.-
Quote from Radiology-291
Quote from cobol
why not,
neurologist +AI vs neuroradiologist +AI
general surgeon+ AI vs body radiologist +AI
pulmonologist+ AI vs chest radiologist +AIespecially if the latter in each had additional training on the quirks with the respective algorithm, workflow dynamics, and the various failure modes. That’s like a no brainer.
Because why pay a panel of expensive radiologists (400k/year) for just to review some image findings that 99.9% of the time aren’t clinically significant.
Also, I have a friend that’s a hosptial neurologist and guess what, ANOTHER radiologist had to addend their reports because the neurologist caught a 4 mm stenosis vs clot in M2 that the radiologist read as completely normal.
Look –
You obviously have some grip with radiologists. Let me make a few points. I’m doing this to tick you off by the way.
1 – 400k a year?! Yeah. We make a lot more than that on average. I know that hurts your feelings, but it’s the case. Go cry about it.
2. Every radiologist makes mistakes. Every physician makes mistakes. So do lawyers, engineers, pharmacists, etc. We all miss things all the time. It’s part of the job for all doctors. As long as it’s not excessive, it’s a non issue. We acknowledge the random time some neurologist or neurosurgeon caught something the radiologist missed, but it happens. Just normal. Guess how many times i’ve had to call an orthopedic surgeon or neurosurgeon about a post surgical abscess. Or ligated vessel and hematoma….Or even call a chiropractor about what appears to be a ‘random’ vertebral artery dissection after manipulation.
3. Your statements are so, so uneducated – I question if you have any basic understanding of medicine or how it works. No, 99.9 percent of radiology scans are not well interpreted by other clinicians. Literally today, I had to call a half dozen clinicians about findings they were totally clueless about. Sure, a giant stroke or brain bleed, a monkey can point out – unfortunately, there is much more subtlety and nuance to radiology.
4. We aren’t going anywhere. If we were, your local pharmacist, primary care doc, ER doc, internist, and pediatrician would all be easily out of a job. Pretty much anyone that isn’t a surgeon. Because All of these fields are fairly algorithmic – and guess what they ALL rely on – Radiology findings, lab findings, path findings.
And lastly – GET SOME MENTAL HELP. It is not normal to come onto a radiology forum to stir up controversy because of whatever underlying issue you have with radiology. We will keep laughing all the way to the bank. Internalize that and feel free to use it to fuel your fire. Just know, we don’t care.
And if you want to come at us – I have 0 issue with letting everyone here, and the broader internet, know who you really are.
Thx and have a blessed week, you sociopath.-
Quote from ar123
Quote from Radiology-291
Quote from cobol
why not,
neurologist +AI vs neuroradiologist +AI
general surgeon+ AI vs body radiologist +AI
pulmonologist+ AI vs chest radiologist +AIespecially if the latter in each had additional training on the quirks with the respective algorithm, workflow dynamics, and the various failure modes. That’s like a no brainer.
Because why pay a panel of expensive radiologists (400k/year) for just to review some image findings that 99.9% of the time aren’t clinically significant.
Also, I have a friend that’s a hosptial neurologist and guess what, ANOTHER radiologist had to addend their reports because the neurologist caught a 4 mm stenosis vs clot in M2 that the radiologist read as completely normal.
Look –
You obviously have some grip with radiologists. Let me make a few points. I’m doing this to tick you off by the way.
1 – 400k a year?! Yeah. We make a lot more than that on average. I know that hurts your feelings, but it’s the case. Go cry about it.
2. Every radiologist makes mistakes. Every physician makes mistakes. So do lawyers, engineers, pharmacists, etc. We all miss things all the time. It’s part of the job for all doctors. As long as it’s not excessive, it’s a non issue. We acknowledge the random time some neurologist or neurosurgeon caught something the radiologist missed, but it happens. Just normal. Guess how many times i’ve had to call an orthopedic surgeon or neurosurgeon about a post surgical abscess. Or ligated vessel and hematoma….Or even call a chiropractor about what appears to be a ‘random’ vertebral artery dissection after manipulation.
3. Your statements are so, so uneducated – I question if you have any basic understanding of medicine or how it works. No, 99.9 percent of radiology scans are not well interpreted by other clinicians. Literally today, I had to call a half dozen clinicians about findings they were totally clueless about. Sure, a giant stroke or brain bleed, a monkey can point out – unfortunately, there is much more subtlety and nuance to radiology.
4. We aren’t going anywhere. If we were, your local pharmacist, primary care doc, ER doc, internist, and pediatrician would all be easily out of a job. Pretty much anyone that isn’t a surgeon. Because All of these fields are fairly algorithmic – and guess what they ALL rely on – Radiology findings, lab findings, path findings.
And lastly – GET SOME MENTAL HELP. It is not normal to come onto a radiology forum to stir up controversy because of whatever underlying issue you have with radiology. We will keep laughing all the way to the bank. Internalize that and feel free to use it to fuel your fire. Just know, we don’t care.
And if you want to come at us – I have 0 issue with letting everyone here, and the broader internet, know who you really are.
Thx and have a blessed week, you sociopath.
How can you out this infidel? do tell.
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Its not that hard to out anyone. Especially on a us based server and someone who isnt even using any diversion software – as is the case with this poster.
I hesitate because I dont want to ruin anyones lifebut some of these people (same person really) get on my nerves from time to time.
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Judging by the change in the name of the thread, it seems you spooked him/her ar123. If this is an actual pathetic blogger with a blog no one reads (which I suspect) my opinions is live and let live – don’t out them. It’d just be adding insult to injury. Have some sympathy for the no-life that came onto a radiology forum to try and teach radiologists about their own specialty.
IF ON THE OTHER HAND, its that annoying ortho resident POS from before, please out them. -
Not scared enough to delete their idiotic posts.
Im mulling over if I want to actually out this person.
I likely wont because I understand they are likely damaged in some way. But, we will see what kind of mood Im in later.
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Why you guys hating on the poster, auntminnie has an AI replacing radiologist article every week it seems like. The one today would intimate that mammographers are toast….
Posting FUD vs. posting legit articles are two separate things I would think. -
Quote from docholliday126
Why you guys hating on the poster, auntminnie has an AI replacing radiologist article every week it seems like. The one today would intimate that mammographers are toast….
Posting FUD vs. posting legit articles are two separate things I would think.
Because posting random, usually click bait-ish articles about AI in radiology is one thing, but actively coming onto a radiology forum and basically saying we are useless and all doomed – initially claiming you are a fellow or resident, then a blogger, etc whatever BS was spewed earlier in this post is another thing.
People like this are spineless and would never have the guts to say any of this stuff to any radiologist in person. I just find it funny that they think in 2023 the anonymity of this forum will protect their identity, IP address, etc.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, no matter how inaccurate it may be. But if you’re going to blast your perspective in a malignant way to our community, just important to know there are repercussions. After all, we are living in the age of cancel culture, haha. -
Ah, OK. Dude was sh!t posting, got it. Yeah that’s no good.
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Quote from ar123
Quote from docholliday126
Why you guys hating on the poster, auntminnie has an AI replacing radiologist article every week it seems like. The one today would intimate that mammographers are toast….
Posting FUD vs. posting legit articles are two separate things I would think.
Because posting random, usually click bait-ish articles about AI in radiology is one thing, but actively coming onto a radiology forum and basically saying we are useless and all doomed – initially claiming you are a fellow or resident, then a blogger, etc whatever BS was spewed earlier in this post is another thing.
People like this are spineless and would never have the guts to say any of this stuff to any radiologist in person. I just find it funny that they think in 2023 the anonymity of this forum will protect their identity, IP address, etc.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, no matter how inaccurate it may be. But if you’re going to blast your perspective in a malignant way to our community, just important to know there are repercussions. After all, we are living in the age of cancel culture, haha.
He was definitely s***posting, but at the end of the day, hes a failed blogger and we’re radiologists. We’re literally the most in demand specialty in the most in demand job in America. Let him slink away to his basement I say, but no one would fault you for outing him.
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Quote from Radiology-291
What about neurologist +AI vs general radiologist
What about general surgeon+ AI vs general radiologist
What about pulmonologist+ AI vs general radiologistThe radiologist is falling out of favor
Falling out of favor among whom? Surgeons? Been that way a long time. Cardiologists? ditto
We keep falling….
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art123, you’re amazing buahahaha. And let’s not ban this troll. I find him amusing. Anyone else picture a fairly out-of-shape, super unattractive virgin eating Bugles in his parents’ basement trying to tick us all off because he wasn’t able to get into med school? I sure do. And I have and ear to ear smile at this EXACT moment as a result.
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Yes, it’s really funny, especially when Agro talked about him eating “Bugles” in the basement. I laughed out loud for real. He’s a failed blogger and we’re radiologists = egggggzaaaactly. Ha!
Does ar123 have access to the server or something? I’m just curious how he might know who this clown is.
The weirdest thing about the Bugle eatin’ clown-man is that radiologists didn’t ask other physicians to over-order and make our specialty to be in such demand – they just did. So now we have to apologize when we have to read the entire body and might also realize that most of it doesn’t matter? Are neuro interventionalists really going into the M2, by the way, and even if they are, does it actually matter or do they not also cause MORE problems by sticking a catheter in there? The question of overdone imaging and procedures both warrant scrutiny – you can even ask after that, these people who are sick are usually super sick so why waste resources beyond a small amount at all on them?
You see, it never ends. But one thing for sure is that none of it is a radiologist’s fault.
Don’t hate the player, hate the game, Bugle Boy!
