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White smoke over the Vatican…that means the muffins are done, right?
Wow, that was quick!!!!! Only two ballots. Sounds like the fix was in. Hope none of the cardinals left their chads hanging.
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142 Replies
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I assume they had a close second place when they decided on Benedict and couldn’t wait to right the wrong. It supports my notion that he was encouraged to leave…and not because of his health or stamina.
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Gotta be an italian ….. I can’t believe it would have gone so quickly with any “new world” cardinal for sure.
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Quote from dergon
Gotta be an [b][u]italian[/u][/b] ….. I can’t believe it would have gone so quickly with any “new world” cardinal for sure.
Popa John, perhaps?
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So are they going to call him Pope George, or Pope Horhay?
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Pretty darn fast this time.
The new pope is Jorge Mario Bergoglio of Argentina. He’s taking the name Francis I.-
Karl Rove just tweeted that the election isn’t over yet. He’s expecting a huge turnout from the suburban Cincinatti cardinals. Just wait and see!
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Quote from dergon
Karl Rove just tweeted that the election isn’t over yet. He’s expecting a huge turnout from the suburban Cincinatti cardinals. Just wait and see!
heh. nicely done.
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What about the St Louis Cardinals?
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And a few in my backyard who haven’t made a peep about this.
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[link=http://www.npr.org/2013/07/26/205695284/pope-draws-crowd-for-mass-on-home-continent]http://www.npr.org/2013/07/26/205695284/pope-draws-crowd-for-mass-on-home-continent[/link]
The pope showing his “revolutionary” bent on his first trip abroad.
Pope Francis focusing on economic issues and social justice rather than the morality issues of sexuality etc that drove the prior Pope.
[link=http://www.patheos.com/blogs/deaconsbench/2013/07/pope-to-argentine-pilgrims-i-want-a-mess/]http://www.patheos.com/blogs/deaconsbench/2013/07/pope-to-argentine-pilgrims-i-want-a-mess/[/link]
The surprise, though, came during his encounter with Argentine pilgrims, scheduled at the last minute in yet another sign of how this spontaneous pope is shaking up the Vaticans staid and often stuffy protocol.
He told the thousands of youngsters, with an estimated 30,000 Argentines registered, to get out into the streets and spread their faith and make a mess, saying a church that doesnt go out and preach simply becomes a civic or humanitarian group.
I want to tell you something. What is it that I expect as a consequence of World Youth Day? I want a mess. We knew that in Rio there would be great disorder, but I want trouble in the dioceses! he said, speaking off the cuff in his native Spanish. I want to see the church get closer to the people. I want to get rid of clericalism, the mundane, this closing ourselves off within ourselves, in our parishes, schools or structures. Because these need to get out!
Apparently realizing the radicalness of his message, he apologized in advance to the bishops at home.It is a big departure from the message of his predecessors Pope Benedict XVI and John Paul II.
As important as what he is saying is what he is [i]not[/i]saying: “He has been focusing on social justice issue and ethical issues and has been stressing less things like sexuality as the last wo popes did. And he has been getting resistance on that from the conservative movement within the Church. Contraception, abortion, homosexuality, premarital sex have all been getting very little space in his speeches.
Even though I am an athesit, I like the tone and the direction of this new pope. 🙂 -
The pope continues to tack to the left.
Quote from Pope Francis
If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?
His predecessor, Pope Benedict XVI, signed a document in 2005 that said men with deep-rooted homosexual tendencies should not be priests. Francis was much more conciliatory, saying gay clergymen should be forgiven and their sins forgotten.
Francis remarks came Monday during a plane journey back to the Vatican from his first foreign trip in Brazil. -
Quote from Pope Francis
If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?
Let’s see what the holy rollers have to say about THAT!
I mean it’s not like they can call him a “CINO” (Catholic in name only)!!
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who are we to judge…hope and peace
Quote from Lux
Quote from Pope Francis
If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?
Let’s see what the holy rollers have to say about THAT!
I mean it’s not like they can call him a “CINO” (Catholic in name only)!!
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A Pope who speaks the message of Jesus…wow…now if only Fox would get the message
[link=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2013/07/29/fox-news-must-apologize-to-reza-aslan/?hpid=z2]http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2013/07/29/fox-news-must-apologize-to-reza-aslan/?hpid=z2[/link] -
Quote from Thor
A Pope who speaks the message of Jesus…wow…now if only Fox would get the message
[link=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2013/07/29/fox-news-must-apologize-to-reza-aslan/?hpid=z2]http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2013/07/29/fox-news-must-apologize-to-reza-aslan/?hpid=z2[/link]
Funny. I’m thinking Reza should be THANKING Fox for that interview!
Green gives that subtle look at the end, as though she[i] [/i]had regretted having to grill him only because she was getting paid big money to do so, but she really felt crummy doing it, and it didn’t go anywhere near as planned; yet another fubar. I wonder if she believed she said anything out of line. She looked like she regretted having to give him a hard time about it.
Aslan made perfect sense, and Green was way too conspicuous in exposing the ideological objective of that interview. Gotta love those fauxcasters. Hard to believe Faux could get any schmultzier.
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“Excuse me, Jesus..?….Uh, just sayin that you are a Jew….Are you sure that you are qualified to be the origin of Christianity?”
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Well that is kind of true since “Christianity” was established later as one had to be a Jew to be a follower until Paul changed the marketing plan.
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Fox News doing it again, it’s not a terrible interview showing Fox’s bias & ignorance, it’s a “Liberal Media Attack!” for pointing out the ignorant terrible interview. It’s not that the interview was stupid, it is an attack by pointing out it was stupid.
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Quote from Frumious
Fox News doing it again, it’s not a terrible interview showing Fox’s bias & ignorance, it’s a “Liberal Media Attack!” for pointing out the ignorant terrible interview. It’s not that the interview was stupid, it is an attack by pointing out it was stupid.
This is why Aslan should be thanking them. He’s getting a million dollars of free publicity while he sits at the sidelines and watches the big guns shoot it out all day and night on global TV. It’s a dream come true.
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as a Catholic, I don’t feel Paul [b]marketed [/b]anything
Quote from Frumious
Well that is kind of true since “Christianity” was established later as one had to be a Jew to be a follower until Paul changed the marketing plan.
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“Marketing” was perhaps a bit frivolous. But Paul was the one who argued and won the case to abandon the rituals, dietary laws, circumcision,etc. of Judaism against Peter & James who argued that a Gentile converting to Christianity first had to be circumcised and adopt the Laws of Moses. Circumcised Christians vs non-circumcised.
In his life, Jesus preached only to the Jews and he died a Jew. Paul felt that Christianity should be preached to the Gentiles. Peter also has a vision to open Christianity to the uncircumcised Gentiles. James, brother of Jesus decrees at the Jerusalem Council in 49 AD to abandon most Judaic laws & rituals.
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More potentially radical progressive from the Vatican
[link=http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/09/11/vatican-papal-priest-celibacy.html]http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/09/11/vatican-papal-priest-celibacy.html[/link]
The Vatican is ready to open a discussion about whether Catholic priests should be required to remain celibate, the Vatican’s newly appointed secretary of state said in an interview with a Venezuelan newspaper.
“Celibacy is not an institution but look, it is also true that you can discuss [it] because as you say this is not a dogma, a dogma of the church,” Archbishop Pietro Parolin said during an interview with El Universal.
Until Archbishop Parolin’s comments, any discussion about changing the priest celibacy rule was largely considered to be out-of-bounds. As secretary of state, he is considered the top aide to Pope Francis.
Parolin’s remarks could be seen as a further sign that Pope Francis is open to the idea of reforming some of the Catholic Church’s most entrenched policies. -
Quote from dergon
More potentially radical progressive from the Vatican
[link=http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/09/11/vatican-papal-priest-celibacy.html]http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/09/11/vatican-papal-priest-celibacy.html[/link]
The Vatican is ready to open a discussion about whether Catholic priests should be required to remain celibate, the Vatican’s newly appointed secretary of state said in an interview with a Venezuelan newspaper.
“Celibacy is not an institution but look, it is also true that you can discuss [it] because as you say this is not a dogma, a dogma of the church,” Archbishop Pietro Parolin said during an interview with El Universal.Until Archbishop Parolin’s comments, any discussion about changing the priest celibacy rule was largely considered to be out-of-bounds. As secretary of state, he is considered the top aide to Pope Francis.
Parolin’s remarks could be seen as a further sign that Pope Francis is open to the idea of reforming some of the Catholic Church’s most entrenched policies.
the new Pope’s been interesting. I think I saw another article about how he switches the pope-mobile to something like a ’84 Renault 4 door. -
Interview of the Pope that is extremely interesting.
[link]http://www.americamagazine.org/pope-interview[/link] -
No, this Pope is different. It’d be too easy to take the same path as the the recently prior Popes, but he’s not. He’s taking the most divisive and the most conservative issues down and saying there must be a more open Church, much more tolerant of “sinners,” of which he counts himself one.
Wow. -
And he bought an ’84 Renault. Wonder if that puffs out white smoke too??
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Quote from walshnuc
And he bought an ’84 Renault. Wonder if that puffs out white smoke too??
Only when cold. Shows burning clean.
He likes to keep his fire engine clean,
It’s a clean machine.
-Penny Lane
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Or, Depeche Mode.
Now that I’m clean
You know what I mean
I’ve broken my fall
Put an end to it all
I’ve changed my routine
Now I’m cleanI don’t understand
What destiny’s planned
I’m starting to grasp
What is in my own hands
I don’t claim to know
Where my holiness goes
I just know that I like
What is starting to showSometimes
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I was raised as a Catholic by a single mom raising 4 kids and the Church provided a stabilizing balance with a great education, and the drive to always try to do better and Always give back and be accepting of others. As a kid..the nuns were like take pride in what u do even if it is the most basic task// Father McCathrey provided some advice to us and this priest was like the JFK of priest( he was like if I went to hollywood and cast what a priest would be like..it would be him). One Christmas, they picked our family to go to this military toys for tots function and the officer brought his child to play with me so it would not be awkward..very comforting..happy moments in my childhood
but the Church is changing
my brother likes to go rogue occasionally and he bought ZEALOT the book and right before mass, he went to one of the church helpers and said would you give father this as a gift… well right then the Father enters and the helper said well you can give it to him yourself and the Father took it, said bless u and proceeded with the mass…well fast forward a week and right before mass the Father sees my brother and comes over and says THANK YOU!! very much for the gift, thank youQuote from Frumious
No, this Pope is different. It’d be too easy to take the same path as the the recently prior Popes, but he’s not. He’s taking the most divisive and the most conservative issues down and saying there must be a more open Church, much more tolerant of “sinners,” of which he counts himself one.
Wow.
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The pope might have read this essay:
[link=http://feetinarmsout.wordpress.com/2013/08/29/how-to-be-a-christian-without-being-a-jerk-about-it/]http://feetinarmsout.wordpress.com/2013/08/29/how-to-be-a-christian-without-being-a-jerk-about-it/[/link]
[b]How to be a Christian without being a jerk about it[/b]
1) Stop threatening people with hellfire and damnation. Nobody likes it. It achieves approximately nothing so far as spreading the gospel is concerned.
4) Stop saying that God is acting in destructive ways because of the gays, feminists, abortionists, communists, socialists, Obamacare, liberals, pornographers or whatever.
5) Get right with science. I dont even know how to explain this one. Climate change is a thing. Evolution is also a thing. The ancient people who wrote the Bible would have looked at us like we were nuts if we told them we were taking their stories as actual fact. The United States is falling behind in global education ranking because of our math and science scores. Kids from very religious households are going to college unprepared for intro science classes because they havent learned about evolution and they think the Earth is 6,000 years old. There are plenty of scientists who are people of faith and believe that there is an unmoved mover behind all of this. In fact, many people believe that knowing more about science actually makes God all the more wondrous.
8) If you know someone is being molested by a church member/leader, report it. Thats just a big old duh.
9) Stop trying to legislate using the Bible as your main argument. The Bible cant be used to make public policy. It can certainly influence reasoning for supporting or opposing a policy, but it [i]must not be the sole reason.[/i] Evidence, studies, cost effectiveness, and constitutionality these are reasons to make or take down laws. Not because the Bible said so. Even in situations when we must allow out moral compass to guide our way to end an injustice, we must (as people living in a democracy, not a theocracy) find reasons to supplement/complement our Biblical reasons for legislation.
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The pope challenges trickle-down economics.
Quote from Pope Francis
Some people continue to defend trickle-down theories which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world. This opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and naïve trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power and in the sacralized workings of the prevailing economic system. Meanwhile, the excluded are still waiting.
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This pope rules
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The Pope Saves
Cosby Scores on the rebound -
I believe that phrase originally goes back to Phil Esposito…
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New Pope new player
ha -
[link=http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/12/m-catholics_and_communists.html]http://www.americanthinke…cs_and_communists.html[/link]
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CardiacEvent:
“…indicative of a deeply irrational and anti-individual streak within the modern Church hierarchy”? When has the Bible EVER preached individualism?
And “irrational”. According to whose standards? Certainly not the 40 million without healthcare in a supposed superpower that claims the high moral ground.
The article goes through great pains cherry-picking various international anecdotes in which anti-individualism is a bad thing (what percentages of planet Earth’s priests are in [i]Korea?!).[/i] It’s as though it is impossible to identify various occurrences of “individualism” as being oppressive to the population.
Anyone who expects support for their[i] “profits before people”[/i] philosophy surely must presume to be in the minority these days.
No one with sound mind can reasonably interpret the Pope’s comments to indicate a systematic support of socialism, Marxism, or communism. The pope was not generalizing about government taking over anything. He simply was decrying the formulaic ideology of systematically putting profits over people without regard to the adverse humanitarian consequences.
The author makes huge and illogical extrapolations that simply cannot be taken seriously.
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Daren Jonescu is certifiable.
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Quit lying about the 40 million. I know that makes you feel ever so much more lik the savior of the world and such, but it aint’ the right number and you know it.
No offense to Catholics or anybody else but Communists, but the Pope is calling for wealth redistribution plain and simple. If was tryin to get control over billions of po folk Id probably do the same thing. -
Just following the gospel. He is after all the Pope.
Acts 4:35
And laid [i]them[/i] down at the apostles’ feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
Luke 18:22
When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven.
Matthew 19:21
[link=http://biblehub.com/matthew/19-20.htm]20[/link]The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?” [link=http://biblehub.com/matthew/19-21.htm]21[/link]Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” [link=http://biblehub.com/matthew/19-22.htm]22[/link]But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property.
Mark 10:21
[link=http://biblehub.com/mark/10-20.htm]20[/link]And he said to Him, “Teacher, I have kept all these things from my youth up.” [link=http://biblehub.com/mark/10-21.htm]21[/link]Looking at him, Jesus felt a love for him and said to him, “One thing you lack: go and sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” [link=http://biblehub.com/mark/10-22.htm]22[/link]But at these words he was saddened, and he went away grieving, for he was one who owned much property.
Acts 2:45
They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need.
1Timothy 6:17
[link=http://biblehub.com/1_timothy/6-17.htm]17[/link]Instruct those who are rich in this present world not to be conceited or to fix their hope on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly supplies us with all things to enjoy. [link=http://biblehub.com/1_timothy/6-18.htm]18[/link]Instruct them to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share, -
they were also anticipating that the END was near. Seems they were a little off on that. So why don’t Communists embrace Christianity if you think the lessons are so similar?
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Why don’t you ask the Pope?
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Do you have his email address?
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You can contact him here:
[link=http://vatican.com/questions/66/does-the-pope-have-an-email-address]http://vatican.com/questi…-have-an-email-address[/link]
Pope Francis does not have a direct mailing address but you can contact the Vatican’s press office at [email protected] . Alternately you can mail the pope via usual mail at this address:
His Holiness, Pope Francis PP.
00120 Via del Pellegrino
Citta del Vaticano
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I’ll let you know what he says
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So when can we expect to see the pope sell off all the Vatican’s holdings and give them to the poor?
Hypocrisy is one of the biggest problems I have with organized religions. -
Pope was a bar bouncer?
[link=http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/12/03/pope-i-was-once-a-bar-bouncer/?hpt=hp_t2]http://religion.blogs.cnn…bar-bouncer/?hpt=hp_t2[/link]
Wow – he really is a bad ass… -
Quote from Icthruu74
So when can we expect to see the pope sell off all the Vatican’s holdings and give them to the poor?
Hypocrisy is one of the biggest problems I have with organized religions.
Well, give the man some credit then. As noted, he was a bar bouncer once. He is a Jesuit. His language about tolerance & judging people is the most humble I’ve ever heard from a Pope. He lives in a modest apartment in Vatican City leaving the pompous Papal apartment to his predecessor and is no longer wearing Prada. His history has not shown ostentatious living either. He has spoken of being uncomfortable with all the august trappings.
I think he deserves some credit.
As far as Church history is concerned, up until Constantine adopted Christianity as the Roman Religion, followers, including the leaders lived generally humbly as did Jesus. Only when Constantine turned over the keys to power did the Church change & was a major political force in the Middle Ages, not something done well from shacks and caves. At one time the Church was the largest landowner in all of Europe.
I don’t think things would be better if he closed the Vatican & gave away the City, it’s valuables and art & library. That too would be a show. -
I prefer to cut the Pope some slack on his socialist views. It’s his job to look after the poor and remind us to be compassionate. The Pope has no armies, but just the power of persuasion and the moral high ground.
[link=http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2013/12/02/Media-Got-Pope-s-Remark-Capitalism-Wrong]http://www.thefiscaltimes…emark-Capitalism-Wrong[/link]
If the Pope controlled the IRS, the FDA, the DOD, the FBI, the NSA and if he had the confiscatory powers of government, then I would be worried. -
[b]I prefer to cut the Pope some slack on his socialist views. [/b]
You prefer to cut God some slack
Since god is also for the poor and unfortunate.
How mighty nice of you alda………………….I m sure he appreciates your subtle jabs -
if aldi could get some cheer…Santa got his eye on him…don’t be Scrooge
Quote from kpack123
[b]I prefer to cut the Pope some slack on his socialist views. [/b]
You prefer to cut God some slack
Since god is also for the poor and unfortunate.
How mighty nice of you alda………………….I m sure he appreciates your subtle jabs
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Wow to call the pope a socialists
I am very surprised at Alda
He used to be passioniate but reasonable
Now he is just another right wing hater. You know itis bad when the right starts fighting about religion amongst each other -
if the Pope is on God’s side and the Pope is a communistthen God is a communist? And Republicans are anti-Communist, so.
And if Obama is concerned about inequality then Obama is on God’s side?
Very interesting world the Republicans live in. They want smaller government that does not provide economic support to Americans. Yet they support wages like Walmart’s & McDonald’s and how many other huge profitable corporations that have wages so low as to be unlivable. That these same corporations counsel their employees to apply for government assistance to supplement their meager wages.
Duh. Nothing wrong here with that??? -
When you are backed in a corner you are paranoid about everyone and you are world gets smaller and smaller.
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[link=http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/trending/VIDEO-Colbert-dubs-Pope-Francis-The-Batpope.html]http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/trending/VIDEO-Colbert-dubs-Pope-Francis-The-Batpope.html[/link]
Pope Francis has been donning plain priest’s clothes and sneaking out of the Vatican at night to minister to the people. Colbert has dubbed him …. Batpope! -
Icthruu74,
Comments? -
As a non-catholic, I can say its fun to sit on the sidelines and watch. The hardcore Catholics are probably a bit uncomfortable with some of the things this pope has said/done. I’m really enjoying the stories about the pope sneaking out at night to minister to the poor/homeless (I’m picturing him tying a bunch of tapestries together and throwing them out the window to climb down). Or cruising around in his ancient Renault (which unfortunately reminds me of my first car). And his statement “who am I to judge” is probably one of the most enlightened statements made by a pope to my knowledge.
On the other hand, over the years I have found organized religions to be hypocritical. Teaching a return to “renunciation of worldly goods” while you sit on untold treasures? Papal infallibility? Saints? Alter boy sex scandals and the protection of those accused of said acts all the while denouncing homosexuality as evil? -
[link=http://www.theamericanconservative.com/would-someone-just-shut-that-pope-up/]http://www.theamericancon…ust-shut-that-pope-up/[/link]
Since the release of [link=http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/francesco/apost_exhortations/documents/papa-francesco_esortazione-ap_20131124_evangelii-gaudium_en.html][i]Evangelii Gaudium[/i][/link] there have been countless articles and commentary about the economic portions of Pope Franciss Apostolic Exhortation. Some of the commentary has been downright bizarre, such as Rush Limbaugh[link=http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/dec/3/rush-limbaugh-decries-pope-francis-pure-marxism/?utm_source=RSS_Feed&utm_medium=RSS]denouncing[/link] the Pope as a Marxist, or Stuart Varney [link=http://mediamatters.org/video/2013/12/03/foxs-varney-attacks-pope-francis-comments-on-in/197108]accusing [/link]Francis of being a neo-socialist. American conservatives grumbled but dutifully denounced a distorting media when Pope Francis seemed to go wobbly on homosexuality, but his criticisms of capitalism have crossed the line, and we now see the Pope being criticized and even denounced from nearly every rightward-leaning media pulpit in the land.
On the brash side there is Larry Kudlow, [link=http://blog.acton.org/archives/63309-video-michael-matheson-miller-discusses-evangelii-gaudium-cnbcs-kudlow-report.html]who nearly hyperventilates [/link]when it comes to his disagreement with Pope Francis, accusing him of harboring sympathies with Communist Russia and not sufficiently appreciating Ronald Reagan, Margaret Thatcher, and Pope John Paul II. (R. R. Reno, who is briefly allowed to get a word in edgewise, wisely counseled Kudlow not to fight the last waror, the one fought three wars ago, for that matter.) Revealingly, Kudlow counsels the Pope to concentrate on moral and religious reform, and that he should harp instead on morality, spiritualism and religiosity, while ceasing to speak about matters economic. Similarly, Judge Napolitano, responding to a challenge from Stuart Varney on why the Pope is talking about economics, responded: I wish he would stick to faith and morals, on which he is very sound and traditional.
These commentators all but come and out say: we embrace Catholic teaching when it concerns itself with faith and moralswhen it denounces abortion, opposes gay marriage, and urges personal charity. This is the Catholicism that has been acceptable in polite conversation. This is a stripped-down Catholicism that doesnt challenge fundamental articles of economic faith.
And it turns out that this version of Catholicism is a useful tool. It is precisely this portion of Catholicism that is acceptable to those who control the right narrative because it doesnt truly endanger whats most important to those who steer the Republic: maintaining an economic system premised upon limitless extraction, fostering of endless desires, and creating a widening gap between winners and losers that is papered over by mantras about [link=http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielfisher/2012/05/02/poor-students-are-the-real-victims-of-college-discrimination/]favoring equality of opportunity[/link]. A massive funding apparatus supports conservative Catholic causes supporting a host of causesso long as they focus exclusively on issues touching on human sexuality, whether abortion, gay marriage, or religious liberty (which, to be frank, is intimately bound up in its current form with concerns about abortion). It turns out that these funds are a good investment: faith and morals allow us to assume the moral high ground and preoccupy the social conservatives while we laugh all the way to the bank bailout.
[b]The rights contretemps with Pope Francis has brought out into the open what is rarely mentioned in polite company: most visible and famous Catholics who fight on behalf of Catholic causes in America focus almost exclusively on sexual issues (as Pope Francis himself seemed to be pointing out, and chastising, in [link=http://www.americamagazine.org/pope-interview]his [i]America[/i]interview[/link]), but have been generally silent regarding a century-old tradition of Catholic social and economic teaching. [/b]
[u]Rush and the gang are not about to go down without a fight. If only they could get that damn Marxist to talk about sex.[/u]
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Quote from Icthruu74
The hardcore Catholics are probably a bit uncomfortable with some of the things this pope has said/done…
which simply means they were never really all that “hardcore” in their Catholic faith after all.
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I really do like this Pope. The Bishops need to get out & mingle with the common folk. Walk. Take the tubes or bus. Maybe wash some feet. And change their robes to something simpler, plainer. Modest housing. Ask, “What would Jesus do?”
[link=http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/04/opinion/when-shepherds-go-deluxe.html]http://www.nytimes.com/20…epherds-go-deluxe.html[/link]Any Roman Catholic prelate who missed the message from Pope Francis that he wanted a church which is poor and for the poor certainly had to pay attention last month when the Vatican forced the resignation of the bishop of Limburg, Germany, because of his taste for opulent housing worthy of the Holy Roman Empire.
Though the verdict is still out on Francis impact on the hidebound Vatican bureaucracy, which he hopes to reform, he is obviously galvanizing the church laity to complain about the double standards and hypocrisy in the lush lifestyles of their shepherds. In the United States, Wilton Gregory, the archbishop of Atlanta, apologetically announced this week that he would not be moving in to a new $2.2 million, 6,000-square-foot mansion he had custom built. Archbishop Gregory conceded that he had second thoughts after being rebuked by lay Catholics struggling to pay their mortgages even as they faithfully heeded his pleas for church donations.
Leaders of a half-dozen other American dioceses have moved to plainer surroundings as Francis keeps up the pressure, urging simple runabouts, not limousines, as preferable transportation for priests and nuns. -
Quote from Frumious
I really do like this Pope. The Bishops need to get out & mingle with the common folk. Walk. Take the tubes or bus. Maybe wash some feet. And change their robes to something simpler, plainer. Modest housing. Ask, “What would Jesus do?”
[link=http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/04/opinion/when-shepherds-go-deluxe.html]http://www.nytimes.com/20…epherds-go-deluxe.html[/link]
Any Roman Catholic prelate who missed the message from Pope Francis that he wanted a church which is poor and for the poor certainly had to pay attention last month when the Vatican forced the resignation of the bishop of Limburg, Germany, because of his taste for opulent housing worthy of the Holy Roman Empire.
Though the verdict is still out on Francis impact on the hidebound Vatican bureaucracy, which he hopes to reform, he is obviously galvanizing the church laity to complain about the double standards and hypocrisy in the lush lifestyles of their shepherds. In the United States, Wilton Gregory, the archbishop of Atlanta, apologetically announced this week that he would not be moving in to a new $2.2 million, 6,000-square-foot mansion he had custom built. Archbishop Gregory conceded that he had second thoughts after being rebuked by lay Catholics struggling to pay their mortgages even as they faithfully heeded his pleas for church donations.
Leaders of a half-dozen other American dioceses have moved to plainer surroundings as Francis keeps up the pressure, urging simple runabouts, not limousines, as preferable transportation for priests and nuns.
no joke. I just saw a picture of the arch bishop of Atlanta Georgia’s digs. I guess someone left some really expensive land to the church and he built a 2.2 million dollar estate. According to this it was with donated money designated for charity. Call in the Donald, because this guy should be fired.
[link=http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2014/04/atlanta-bishop-apologizes-for-building-2-2-million-mansion/]http://abcnews.go.com/blo…g-2-2-million-mansion/[/link] -
First the Cardinals, then the televangelists!
Out with the moneychangers!
[link=http://ncronline.org/blogs/parish-diary/bishop-bling-was-not-thinking-jesus]http://ncronline.org/blog…was-not-thinking-jesus[/link]
[link=http://www.npr.org/2014/04/02/298373994/onscreen-but-out-of-sight-tv-preachers-avoid-tax-scrutiny]http://www.npr.org/2014/0…ers-avoid-tax-scrutiny[/link]
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as an aside, went to mass a few weeks and the father gave a pretty interesting/odd homily: he said there had been a recent exorcism and that we have to be vigilant because there are people out there who want your soul and to protect yourself you have to pray and stop use of all contraception
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Quote from Noah’sArk
as an aside, went to mass a few weeks and the father gave a pretty interesting/odd homily: he said there had been a recent exorcism and that we have to be vigilant because there are people out there who want your soul and to protect yourself you have to pray and stop use of all contraception
That’s blasphemy of the highest order.
Look, it’s none of my business, but if that was [i]my[/i] parish, I would go to a different church.
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it was bizarre…like twilight zone but then I did goggle and there was an exorcism done in philly I think
…has not mastered the concept of separation of church and stateQuote from Lux
Quote from Noah’sArk
as an aside, went to mass a few weeks and the father gave a pretty interesting/odd homily: he said there had been a recent exorcism and that we have to be vigilant because there are people out there who want your soul and to protect yourself you have to pray and stop use of all contraception
That’s blasphemy of the highest order.
Look, it’s none of my business, but if that was [i]my[/i] parish, I would go to a different church. -
lux, aside from some oddities…some of his speeches are quite good and heartfelt…he said once he keeps this silver dollar in his pocket to always remind him that he does not know everything and he can only do the best that he can give
Quote from Lux
Quote from Noah’sArk
as an aside, went to mass a few weeks and the father gave a pretty interesting/odd homily: he said there had been a recent exorcism and that we have to be vigilant because there are people out there who want your soul and to protect yourself you have to pray and stop use of all contraception
That’s blasphemy of the highest order.
Look, it’s none of my business, but if that was [i]my[/i] parish, I would go to a different church. -
I can’t help but wonder why he chose a silver dollar as his talisman.
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he is a very interesting character because he usually brings it out when he talks about Jesus becoming enraged at the temple…he accepts Francis but likes to fall back on Benedict
so I can understand now why the church does not like to have two popes alive at the same time because of possible division but I agree that if they become to feeble for the job then choose another oneQuote from Lux
I can’t help but wonder why he chose a silver dollar as his talisman.
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Well, in recent years the church has indeed shown that it is having difficulty disciplining the flock. Current church leadership simply MUST acknowledge the current pope. There is no excuse for invoking past ideology. Otherwise, some will be tempted to go back to the Crusader or witch hunt mentality. If the pope says it’s time to be minimalist, then parish leaders will continue to lose their position with each new mansion they move into.
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catholic church parish so there is no mansion…but you just can’t help but notice his penchant to mention Benedict right after he says Pope Francis
he encourages that protestants will find their way back to the catholic church
he tends to tread lightly with Obama butQuote from Lux
Well, in recent years the church has indeed shown that it is having difficulty disciplining the flock. Current church leadership simply MUST acknowledge the current pope. There is no excuse for invoking past ideology. Otherwise, some will be tempted to go back to the Crusader or witch hunt mentality. If the pope says it’s time to be minimalist, then parish leaders will continue to lose their position with each new mansion they move into.
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I’m doing pretty well at the box office
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Pope Francis says he has an inner peace and happy that he is working…the holy father
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Quote from Noah’sArk
as an aside, went to mass a few weeks and the father gave a pretty interesting/odd homily: he said there had been a recent exorcism and that we have to be vigilant because there are people out there who want your soul and to protect yourself you have to pray and stop use of all contraception
And that is why I left religion…..
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he is giving the digs up..
Quote from DICOM_Dan
Quote from Frumious
I really do like this Pope. The Bishops need to get out & mingle with the common folk. Walk. Take the tubes or bus. Maybe wash some feet. And change their robes to something simpler, plainer. Modest housing. Ask, “What would Jesus do?”
[link=http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/04/opinion/when-shepherds-go-deluxe.html]http://www.nytimes.com/20…epherds-go-deluxe.html[/link]
Any Roman Catholic prelate who missed the message from Pope Francis that he wanted a church which is poor and for the poor certainly had to pay attention last month when the Vatican forced the resignation of the bishop of Limburg, Germany, because of his taste for opulent housing worthy of the Holy Roman Empire.
Though the verdict is still out on Francis impact on the hidebound Vatican bureaucracy, which he hopes to reform, he is obviously galvanizing the church laity to complain about the double standards and hypocrisy in the lush lifestyles of their shepherds. In the United States, Wilton Gregory, the archbishop of Atlanta, apologetically announced this week that he would not be moving in to a new $2.2 million, 6,000-square-foot mansion he had custom built. Archbishop Gregory conceded that he had second thoughts after being rebuked by lay Catholics struggling to pay their mortgages even as they faithfully heeded his pleas for church donations.
Leaders of a half-dozen other American dioceses have moved to plainer surroundings as Francis keeps up the pressure, urging simple runabouts, not limousines, as preferable transportation for priests and nuns.no joke. I just saw a picture of the arch bishop of Atlanta Georgia’s digs. I guess someone left some really expensive land to the church and he built a 2.2 million dollar estate. According to this it was with donated money designated for charity. Call in the Donald, because this guy should be fired.
[link=http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2014/04/atlanta-bishop-apologizes-for-building-2-2-million-mansion/]http://abcnews.go.com/blo…g-2-2-million-mansion/[/link]
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[b]
Pope Francis Shakes Up Vatican Financial Watchdog Board By Firing.. Everybody[/b][/h1]
[link=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/05/pope-francis-bank-watchdog-board_n_5451637.html?&ncid=tweetlnkushpmg00000067]http://www.huffingtonpost…tweetlnkushpmg00000067[/link]
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Pope Francis begins to appoint more progressives into the US bishopric. It’s the Papal equivalent of Supreme Court Appointments. Once in their positions, they can effect Church policy for decades to come.
[link=http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/21/us/new-chicago-archbishop-blase-cupich.html?_r=0]http://www.nytimes.com/20…blase-cupich.html?_r=0[/link]
[b]
Pope Sets Tone in U.S. by Naming Inclusive Prelate as Chicago Archbishop[/b][/h1]In his first major appointment in the United States, Pope Francis named Bishop Blase J. Cupich of Spokane, Wash., on Saturday to be the next archbishop of Chicago, replacing a combative conservative with a prelate whose pastoral approach to upholding church doctrine is more in keeping with the popes inclusive tone.
He spoke out against a referendum on same-sex marriage in Washington State in 2012. But even before Francis became pope, Bishop Cupich and he sounded much alike. Bishop Cupich emphasized care for the poor and dispossessed, and on hot-button moral issues he employed a tone that emphasized respect and dignity for gays and dialogue with those who disagreed with church teaching.
In a [link=http://www.dioceseofspokane.org/news_detail.php?id=212]pastoral letter[/link] before the vote on same-sex marriage, Bishop Cupich wrote that the Catholic Church has no tolerance for the misuse of this moment to incite hostility towards homosexual persons or promote an agenda that is hateful and disrespectful of their human dignity.
Some liberal Catholic commentators and groups, like Call to Action, which is based in Chicago, praised the appointment, while some conservatives were a bit wary. They recalled an experience in 2011 when priests and seminarians said Bishop Cupich had urged them not to join protesters planning to hold prayer vigils outside clinics that perform abortions. -
Despite his man-of-the-people persona, the Pope is’t afraid to play hardball politics on the inside.
[link=http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/09/world/europe/pope-francis-reassigns-conservative-cardinal/]http://www.cnn.com/2014/1…conservative-cardinal/[/link]
He continues to elevate progressives and eliminate conservatives who are his Vatican political opposition.
Pope Francis has reassigned a conservative American cardinal from a key post to one that is mostly symbolic.
Cardinal Raymond Burke, a leading conservative, has been vocal in his criticism of the direction the Pope is leading the Catholic Church in.
Burke was one of the highest ranking Americans in the church hierarchy in his position on the Vatican’s supreme court. But he was reassigned to the position of Patron of the Order of Malta, the Vatican announced on Saturday. The National Catholic Reporter points out that Burke’s new post is a job that “has almost no responsibilities.”
The change, however, was not unexpected. Last month, Burke himself said he had been ousted from the Vatican’s high court.
Burke has been outspoken about his opposition to Pope Francis’ move toward more openness and inclusiveness of gays and lesbians.
“The Pope is not free to change the church’s teachings with regard to the immorality of homosexual acts or the insolubility of marriage or any other doctrine of the faith,” Burke told Buzzfeed recently.
When a recent draft report included a call for the church to be more welcoming to gays, Burke said the report “lacks a solid foundation in the sacred Scriptures.”
Subsequently, some of the language on the “gifts and qualities” that gay people can bring to the church was removed from the report.
The Pope has appointed moderates in several big dioceses, including in Chicago earlier this fall, and he’s removed some archconservatives from their posts.
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“When a recent draft report included a call for the church to be more welcoming to gays, Burke said the report “lacks a solid foundation in the sacred Scriptures.””
Perhaps what I don’t get about that statement, lacks solid foundation the sacred Scriptures, is that the number1/2 two commandments are love God and love thy neighbor. It doesn’t say love thy neighbor unless he/she is gay.
Deuteronomy 6 versus 4 and 5 (and maybe part of 6) “Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and [b]great commandment[/b]. And the second[/b] is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.”
We actually had to recite that every day in Hebrew and then English in Mr. Divis’ scripture class. I can still remember all the Hebrew 16 years later. -
Pope calls together the Curia for Christmas and accuses the Vatican bureaucrats of having “spiritual Alzheimers”.
[link=http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/12/spiritual-alzheimers-pope-francis-uses-christmas-speech-to-launch-scathing-attack-on-vatican/]http://www.rawstory.com/r…ing-attack-on-vatican/[/link]
Every year around this time, Pope Francis and the senior governing cardinals, bishops and priests of the Vatican referred to as the Curia meet for an exchange of Christmas greetings. This year, Pope Francis brought a little something extra for the Curia: a 15-point catalog of spiritual diseases hes seen among leadership there, and how a little bit of Christmas spirit might help to make things better.
The list of diseases included spiritual Alzheimers, spiritual petrification, a feeling of being immortal, and funereal face, a concept Francis [link=http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1405194.htm]referred to this month[/link], urging followers to prepare for Christmas with joy, instead of dourness or anxiety. The pope also blasted gossiping among officials as a form of satanic assassination. He said: Sometimes, [officials of the Curia] feel themselves lords of the manor superior to everyone and everything.
Francis hoped that the Christmas season would help the governing body to heal some of what ails it. -
A little opinion piece in line with the OP
[url]http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-01-11/pope-francis-rattles-us-conservatives[/url]
[b]Pope Francis Rattles U.S. Conservatives[/b]
Today’s conservatives are apprehensive about Pope Francis, who has changed the tone and culture, not the doctrines, of the Catholic Church in less than two years as pontiff. He stresses, with passion and authenticity, a commitment to addressing poverty and income inequality more than the social issues that have dominated much of the Catholic debate in America.
…
Still, Francis’s message is unsettling to more than a few conservatives, particularly his focus on climate change and his initiatives to influence the United Nations’ conference in Paris this year. Some Catholic business leaders have complained about Francis’s emphasis on income inequality and the defects of capitalism. Ken Langone, the billionaire founder of the Home Depot and a major Republican donor, warned Cardinal Timothy Dolan of New York that if the pope kept up the drumbeat, some wealthy Catholics might stop giving to church causes.
…And Francis has rattled the U.S. church hierarchy, notably the bishops. Francis removed {staunch conservative Cardinal Raymond} Burke as head of the Vatican’s high court. Burke, a Francis critic, recently asserted that a “feminized” church, which permits altar girls, is responsible for a shortage of priests and some of the pedophilia crimes. Equally important, the pope chose Blase Cupich, the progressive bishop of Spokane, Washington, to be the archbishop of Chicago, the third-largest American diocese. He succeeds Cardinal Francis George, a conservative cultural warrior.
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
Deuteronomy 6 versus 4 and 5 (and maybe part of 6) “Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and [b]great commandment[/b]. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.”
Deuteronomy & Jesus? What Bible version? Deuteronomy is the 5th book of Moses, the Pentateuch, Old Testament.
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Quote from Frumious
Quote from DICOM_Dan
Deuteronomy 6 versus 4 and 5 (and maybe part of 6) “Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and [b]great commandment[/b]. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.”
Deuteronomy & Jesus? What Bible version? Deuteronomy is the 5th book of Moses, the Pentateuch, Old Testament.
Jesus quotes Deuteronomy numerous times in the gospels.
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Quote from dergon
Quote from Frumious
Quote from DICOM_Dan
Deuteronomy 6 versus 4 and 5 (and maybe part of 6) “Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and [b]great commandment[/b]. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.”
Deuteronomy & Jesus? What Bible version? Deuteronomy is the 5th book of Moses, the Pentateuch, Old Testament.
Jesus quotes Deuteronomy numerous times in the gospels.
But Deuteronomy never quotes Jesus.
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Quote from Frumious
Quote from dergon
Quote from Frumious
Quote from DICOM_Dan
Deuteronomy 6 versus 4 and 5 (and maybe part of 6) “Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and [b]great commandment[/b]. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.”
Deuteronomy & Jesus? What Bible version? Deuteronomy is the 5th book of Moses, the Pentateuch, Old Testament.
Jesus quotes Deuteronomy numerous times in the gospels.
But Deuteronomy never quotes Jesus.
which is why I offered the other more accurate quote . My last scripture class was ’97, my bad.
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Interesting to see a bible argument among a bunch of (mostly) non-religious folks.
I am also a retired Christian … of the born-again protestant variety.
It’s been a long time since I did any bible study (call it 1987), but I and virtually every other atheist I know is better versed in scripture and the doctrine of the worlds’ religions than the vast majority of American Christians.
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I did K-12 all in Catholic schools. I remember how everyone was excited about the movie Major League when Renne Russo was talking about getting married at All Saints. It was like hey I go there. In high school every day in scripture we’d have to start the class with a “shalom aleichem”, unless it was Friday and you had to say “shalom shabbat”. Unless someone said it to you in which case I think you say the words the opposite. Then right into the Deuteronomy. It was a long 4 years.
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Actually it should be Shabbat Shalom, but I’m still very impressed!
Yes, the Bible is very raw when you get down to it. A lot of begetting goes on, some of it among married people. There is also a lot of death. Fortunately, we Judeo-Christians don’t stone people anymore. -
[link=http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/01/pop-the-popcorn-pope-francis-to-address-republican-controlled-congress/]http://www.rawstory.com/r…n-controlled-congress/[/link]
Pope Francis to address a joint session of congress in September.
I wonder who will be the first GOP congressman to shout “You lie!” -
please I hope they are on the best behavior for the holy father who also made comments on when it’s kinda offensive to say very harmful comments about others religion
Quote from dergon
[link=http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/01/pop-the-popcorn-pope-francis-to-address-republican-controlled-congress/]http://www.rawstory.com/r…n-controlled-congress/[/link]
Pope Francis to address a joint session of congress in September.
I wonder who will be the first GOP congressman to shout “You lie!”
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Quote from Noah’sArk
please I hope they are on the best behavior for the holy father who also made comments on when it’s kinda offensive to say very harmful comments about others religion
Like Communism? -
Quote from Noah’sArk
please I hope they are on the best behavior for the holy father who also made comments on when it’s kinda offensive to say very harmful comments about others religion
Quote from dergon
[link=http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/01/pop-the-popcorn-pope-francis-to-address-republican-controlled-congress/]http://www.rawstory.com/r…n-controlled-congress/[/link]
Pope Francis to address a joint session of congress in September.
I wonder who will be the first GOP congressman to shout “You lie!”
Ever heard of Al-Azhar University?
The bigotry of low expectations, at it again. -
Quote from dergon
[link=http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/01/pop-the-popcorn-pope-francis-to-address-republican-controlled-congress/]http://www.rawstory.com/r…n-controlled-congress/[/link]
Pope Francis to address a joint session of congress in September.
I wonder who will be the first GOP congressman to shout “You lie!”
[attachment=0]
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I’m sort of retired catholic, Lost in translation.
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. -
That is the most important prayer in the Jewish litergy. It goes on to describe the placement of the Mezzuah, a tiny container, on the door post of one’s house, which contains a tiny scroll with this same prayer. The next chapter is rather interesting in light of other discussions here:
Deuteronomy 6
Now this is the commandmentthe statutes and the rules[a]that the Lord your God commanded me to teach you, that you may do them in the land to which you are going over, to possess it, 2 that you may fear the Lord your God, you and your son and your son’s son, by keeping all his statutes and his commandments, which I command you, all the days of your life, and that your days may be long. 3 Hear therefore, O Israel, and be careful to do them, that it may go well with you, and that you may multiply greatly, as the Lord, the God of your fathers, has promised you, in a land flowing with milk and honey.
4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.[b] 5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. 6 And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart. 7 You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise. 8 You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes. 9 You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.
10 And when the Lord your God brings you into the land that he swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give youwith great and good cities that you did not build, 11 and houses full of all good things that you did not fill, and cisterns that you did not dig, and vineyards and olive trees that you did not plantand when you eat and are full, 12 then take care lest you forget the Lord, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. 13 It is the Lord your God you shall fear. Him you shall serve and by his name you shall swear. 14 You shall not go after other gods, the gods of the peoples who are around you 15 for the Lord your God in your midst is a jealous Godlest the anger of the Lord your God be kindled against you, and he destroy you from off the face of the earth.
16 You shall not put the Lord your God to the test, as you tested him at Massah. 17 You shall diligently keep the commandments of the Lord your God, and his testimonies and his statutes, which he has commanded you. 18 And you shall do what is right and good in the sight of the Lord, that it may go well with you, and that you may go in and take possession of the good land that the Lord swore to give to your fathers 19 by thrusting out all your enemies from before you, as the Lord has promised.
20 When your son asks you in time to come, What is the meaning of the testimonies and the statutes and the rules that the Lord our God has commanded you? 21 then you shall say to your son, We were Pharaoh’s slaves in Egypt. And the Lord brought us out of Egypt with a mighty hand. 22 And the Lord showed signs and wonders, great and grievous, against Egypt and against Pharaoh and all his household, before our eyes. 23 And he brought us out from there, that he might bring us in and give us the land that he swore to give to our fathers. 24 And the Lord commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the Lord our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as we are this day. 25 And it will be righteousness for us, if we are careful to do all this commandment before the Lord our God, as he has commanded us.
Deuteronomy 7
When the Lord your God brings you into the land that you are entering to take possession of it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites, the Girgashites, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations more numerous and mightier than you, 2 and when the Lord your God gives them over to you, and you defeat them, then you must devote them to complete destruction.[a] You shall make no covenant with them and show no mercy to them. 3 You shall not intermarry with them, giving your daughters to their sons or taking their daughters for your sons, 4 for they would turn away your sons from following me, to serve other gods. Then the anger of the Lord would be kindled against you, and he would destroy you quickly. 5 But thus shall you deal with them: you shall break down their altars and dash in pieces their pillars and chop down their Asherim and burn their carved images with fire.
6 For you are a people holy to the Lord your God. The Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth. 7 It was not because you were more in number than any other people that the Lord set his love on you and chose you, for you were the fewest of all peoples, 8 but it is because the Lord loves you and is keeping the oath that he swore to your fathers, that the Lord has brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt. 9 Know therefore that the Lord your God is God, the faithful God who keeps covenant and steadfast love with those who love him and keep his commandments, to a thousand generations, 10 and repays to their face those who hate him, by destroying them. He will not be slack with one who hates him. He will repay him to his face. 11 You shall therefore be careful to do the commandment and the statutes and the rules that I command you today. -
In light of other discussions, the Old Testament is pretty blood thirsty & intolerant. Not dissimilar to another religious book.
One reason I follow no religion. -
[url=http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2015/09/climate-change-pope-paganism]
Heartland Institute attacks Pope: “Paganism” Has “Entered the Church”[/url][/h1]But Koprowski said that after the pope released his landmark encyclical calling for action on climate change, he began to suspect that “something more may be afoot.” Koprowski then invoked pagan rituals and “nature worship” that he said were “seeping into the Church” during the Middle Ages, adding: “I’m wondering, as a scholar, if pagan forms are returning to the Church this day.”
Koprowski concluded: “I would say, contrary to some of the criticism, that this is not communism that has entered the church. It’s, rather, paganism.”
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[h3][link=https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/redirect-to/?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.latimes.com%2Fworld-nation%2Fstory%2F2022-06-29%2Fpelosi-receives-communion-vatican-despite-abortion-stance]Pelosi receives Communion in Vatican Papal Mass despite abortion stance[/link][/h3]
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Sounds like Pope Emeritus Benedict is in bad shape.
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Pepe Benedict dead at 95
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[link=http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/pope-francis-denounces-trickle-down-economic-theories-in-critique-of-inequality/2013/11/26/e17ffe4e-56b6-11e3-8304-caf30787c0a9_story.html]http://www.washingtonpost…af30787c0a9_story.html[/link]
Theres no way a Catholic who is a serious intellectual can ever again not address the issue of income inequality, of the structural sins of our economic system. This is so front and center, said Michael Sean Winters, a fellow at Catholic Universitys Institute for Policy Research and Catholic Studies. This is a pastors voice. Hes saying, If were serious Christians, we need to be knee-deep in this stuff.
Franciss words may ripple across many fronts.
The popes statements especially if they continue could impact U.S. politics. Several potential contenders for the presidency in 2016 are economic conservatives who are also Catholic, and liberal Catholic groups have in the past taken aim at what they view as the overly stingy policies of Republicans who have little regard for the role of government in redistributing income.
Helping the poor and combating inequality have long been tenets of papal statements and classical Catholic teaching, which supports carefully regulated markets and even a government role in redistributing wealth. -
[link=http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/11/the-vaticans-journey-from-anti-communism-to-anti-capitalism/281874/]http://www.theatlantic.co…nti-capitalism/281874/[/link]
Pope Francis is once again [link=http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/11/what-the-republican-party-can-learn-from-pope-francis/281478/]shaking things up in the Catholic Church[/link]. On Tuesday, he issued his first [link=http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/page/politics/pope-francis-denounces-economic-inequality-consumerism/619/]apostolic exhortation[/link], declaring a new enemy for the Catholic Church: modern capitalism.
He couldn’t be much clearer. The pope has taken a firm political stance against right-leaning, pro-free market economic policies, and his condemnation appears to be largely pointed at Europe and the United States. His explicit reference to trickle-down economic policiesthe hallmark of Ronald Reagan, Margaret Thatcher, and their political successorsis just the beginning: Throughout 224 pages on the future of the Church, he condemns income inequality, the culture of prosperity, and a financial system which rules rather than serves.
Taken in the context of the last half-century of Roman Catholicism, this is a radical move. Fifty years ago, around the time of the Second Vatican Council, Church leaders quietly declared a very different economic enemy: communism. But Pope Franciss communitarian, populist message shows just how far the Church has shifted in five decadesand how thoroughly capitalism has displaced communism as a monolithic political philosophy.
The bishop of Rome hasn’t just condemned what he sees as a failed free-markethe’a condemned the ethic and ideology that underlie free-market economies. The culture of prosperity deadens us; we are thrilled if the market offers us something new to purchase, Francis writes. In the meantime all those lives stunted for lack of opportunity seem a mere spectacle; they fail to move us.”
This is more than just a lecture about ethics; its a statement about who should control financial markets. At least right now, Francis says, the global economy needs more government controlan argument that would have been unthinkable for the pope just 50 years ago. He writes:
[blockquote] It is vital that government leaders and financial leaders take heed and broaden their horizons, working to ensure that all citizens have dignified work, education and healthcare.
While the earnings of a minority are growing exponentially, so too is the gap separating the majority from the prosperity enjoyed by those happy few Consequently, they reject the right of states, charged with vigilance for the common good, to exercise any form of control. A new tyranny is thus born, invisible and often virtual, which unilaterally and relentlessly imposes its own laws and rules.
[/blockquote]
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Well, with the Pope weighing in like that I think it’s now pretty clear that any of you right wing Catholic extremists out there who decry [i]”redistribution of wealth”[/i] as somehow being an evil socialist or communist abomination has, in fact, committed heresy of the highest order.
Of course, if you don’t give a crap about the Pope, then you’re not a true Catholic and so I would imagine you have nothing to worry about.
; )
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Quote from Lux
Well, with the Pope weighing in like that I think it’s now pretty clear that any of you right wing Catholic extremists out there who decry [i]”redistribution of wealth”[/i] as somehow being an evil socialist or communist abomination has, in fact, committed heresy of the highest order.
Of course, if you don’t give a crap about the Pope, then you’re not a true Catholic and so I would imagine you have nothing to worry about.
; )
Conservative US Catholics were already not at all happy with Francis when he started with a pivot away from social issues. This focus on income inequality will only make them more upset. Sarah Palin is already decrying the Pope’s “liberal agenda” and the conservative blogosphere is looking to cut and run on Francis chalking him up to papble fallibility 😉
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Following past form, how long before these Catholics become Protestants?
Of course they are still stuck with the meaning of Christianity in any case.
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And the sad part is that Francis isn’t saying anything different than what is already in the Gospels. The problem is that these conservative Bible thumper’s never read the Bible!!!
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Conservative Catholics are very very very much the minority
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I’m not convinced.
He states says the challenge is to think about the[i] “specific place of women…”[/i] Why single out women at all having any more of a specific role in the church than men? It seems he sees women playing more of a “dignity” role more than a functional role.
And this business of “tolerating” gays is pathetic. It’s unfathomable how any religion can claim to be the “one religion” that worships the “one God” and be so phobic. Phobic about women in equal authority, phobic about gays (as if celibacy is any better, let alone pedophilic celibacy), phobic about clergy engaging in sexual behavior, phobic about birth control…and yet it does not impose [i]latae sententiae [/i](automatic excommunication) for felons, adultery, bigamy, capital punishment, and even sending our troops to their death. You can even remain a Catholic after you divorce (the result of violating a sacrament) unless you re-marry!Also, it was a BIG mistake to sanctify Benedict but not Mother Teresa.
Francis has a LONG way to go before the Catholic Church gets any kudos for extinguishing the conflagration that they, themselves, started.
But at least he’s talking in the right direction.
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Quote from Lux
And this business of “tolerating” gays is pathetic. It’s unfathomable how any religion can claim to be the “one religion” that worships the “one God” and be so phobic. Phobic about women in equal authority, phobic about gays (as if celibacy is any better, let alone pedophilic celibacy), phobic about clergy engaging in sexual behavior, phobic about birth control…and yet it does not impose [i]latae sententiae [/i](automatic excommunication) for felons, adultery, bigamy, capital punishment, and even sending our troops to their death. You can even remain a Catholic after you divorce (the result of violating a sacrament) unless you re-marry!I think he seems to be the opposite of everything you’re saying here. Love the sinner not the sin, seems to be his schtick.
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Only a question of time until the curia has him whacked.
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
Quote from Lux
And this business of “tolerating” gays is pathetic. It’s unfathomable how any religion can claim to be the “one religion” that worships the “one God” and be so phobic. Phobic about women in equal authority, phobic about gays (as if celibacy is any better, let alone pedophilic celibacy), phobic about clergy engaging in sexual behavior, phobic about birth control…and yet it does not impose [i]latae sententiae [/i](automatic excommunication) for felons, adultery, bigamy, capital punishment, and even sending our troops to their death. You can even remain a Catholic after you divorce (the result of violating a sacrament) unless you re-marry!I think he seems to be the opposite of everything you’re saying here. Love the sinner not the sin, seems to be his schtick.
The fact that he views homosexuality as a “sin” at all is disconcerting considering all the other “sins” he should be focusing on like capital punishment, war fatalities, felonies, etc. Claiming that he “loves” the sinner is nothing more than platitude without substance. He’s ignoring the elephant in the room. There was nothing in that interview that dispels all the traditional phobias that have been insidiously engrained in the Catholic Church for centuries.
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He doesn’t have to believe what I believe, besides I’m not Cat-lic. But he is a vast improvement over the former popes & their stifling viewpoints. Not since John XXIII and 2nd Vatican Council has the message been less conservative, “The Jews did not murder God” and the mass was modernized to make it understandable for the people and to “open the windows of the church and let in some fresh air.”
Looks like the windows are opening again.
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Another awesome Onion piece:
[link=http://www.theonion.com/articles/vatican-quickly-performs-damage-control-on-popes-t,33292/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=LinkPreview:1:Default]http://www.theonion.com/articles/vatican-quickly-performs-damage-control-on-popes-t,33292/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=LinkPreview:1:Default[/link]
[h1]Vatican Quickly Performs Damage Control On Popes Tolerant Remarks[/h1]
VATICAN CITYFollowing Pope Francis tolerant remarks Sunday about homosexuals and the Catholic Church, Vatican officials reportedly went into crisis mode, announcing that the Popes thoughtful message of understanding was clearly taken out of context. It is not the official stance of the Pope or the Catholic Church that all people of good will who seek the Lord, especially gay people, should be accepted by Christ, a visibly nervous Vatican spokesman told reporters, adding that the Holy Father was clearly tired after his long trip to Brazil and never meant for his comments to sound caring or realistic. Homosexuality is a disorder. And this in no way means that, going forward, the Catholic Church will be an open-minded, more sensible organization. I assure you we are just as prejudiced and backward today as we were yesterday. Thank you. According to an anonymous source close to the Vatican, the Pope is currently being yelled at by Church officials, who are telling him, You dont just go off script like that. Who the fuck do you think you are?-
Quote from dergon
Another awesome Onion piece:
[link=http://www.theonion.com/articles/vatican-quickly-performs-damage-control-on-popes-t,33292/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=LinkPreview:1:Default]http://www.theonion.com/articles/vatican-quickly-performs-damage-control-on-popes-t,33292/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=LinkPreview:1:Default[/link]
[h1]Vatican Quickly Performs Damage Control On Popes Tolerant Remarks[/h1]
VATICAN CITYFollowing Pope Francis tolerant remarks Sunday about homosexuals and the Catholic Church, Vatican officials reportedly went into crisis mode, announcing that the Popes thoughtful message of understanding was clearly taken out of context. It is not the official stance of the Pope or the Catholic Church that all people of good will who seek the Lord, especially gay people, should be accepted by Christ, a visibly nervous Vatican spokesman told reporters, adding that the Holy Father was clearly tired after his long trip to Brazil and never meant for his comments to sound caring or realistic. Homosexuality is a disorder. And this in no way means that, going forward, the Catholic Church will be an open-minded, more sensible organization. I assure you we are just as prejudiced and backward today as we were yesterday. Thank you. According to an anonymous source close to the Vatican, the Pope is currently being yelled at by Church officials, who are telling him, You dont just go off script like that. Who the **** do you think you are?
It would be funnier if it wasn’t true.
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[link=http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/oct/08/catholic-church-sex-marriage-vatican-pope-francis]http://www.theguardian.co…e-vatican-pope-francis[/link]
Francis continues to try to push the Church to moderate on social issues.
A battle is raging for the soul of the Catholic church, with influential cardinals increasingly open in their opposition to Pope Francis over issues including divorce, remarriage, contraception and same-sex relations.
Disagreement over these issues is likely to come to a head over the next few days, with the bishops gathering in Rome for an extraordinary synod on the family, called by the pope. Unusually, the Vatican sent out a questionnaire ahead of the synod seeking the views of Catholics around the world on family, marriage and sexuality. The hierarchy has been reluctant to publish the responses, but it is clear from their commentaries that many Catholics do not follow the churchs teachings.
Francis has described the churchs preoccupation with contraception, abortion and homosexuality as obsessive. It is, he says, a distraction from the churchs primary vocation to live the dynamic joy and freedom of the gospel in a way that makes it attractive to others. If the Catholic church has in recent decades appeared to function as a global police force primarily concerned with controlling peoples sex lives, Francis wants it to instead become a church of the ordinary people, and a champion of the poor and the marginalised over and against the tyranny of the modern economic system.
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[link=http://www.hrc.org/blog/entry/seismic-shift-in-rome-new-catholic-church-document-praises-committed-gay-an]http://www.hrc.org/blog/e…aises-committed-gay-an[/link]
The preliminary but potentially ground-breaking document released today by the Extraordinary Synod of Bishops asserted that LGBT people have gifts and talents to offer the Christian community, and, for the first time, referred to LGBT couples as partners instead of sinners.
Human Rights Campaign President Chad Griffin issued the following statement:
“For the LGBT Catholics in the United States and around the world, this new document is a light in the darknessa dramatic new tone from a Church hierarchy that has long denied the very existence of committed and loving gay and lesbian partnerships.
Apparently the American Bishops are the most upset about this.
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[link=http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/uncucumbered/pope_francis_personally_rejected_gay_french_ambassador]http://www.thenewcivilrig…_gay_french_ambassador[/link]
[b]Pope Francis Personally Rejected Gay French Ambassador[/b]Le Journal du Dimanche is quoting a source inside the Vatican who says the rejection of Laurent Stefanini was “a decision taken by the pope himself.”
“On 29 July 2013, the pope created a real enthusiasm in the gay community, who concluded Pope Francis was definitely more “friendly” than his predecessors when, on the plane to Rio, he made the comment, “If a person is gay, and sought the Lord with good will, who am I to judge?”
“France has just discovered the hard way that softening has its limits. It was “a decision by the pope himself,” a source inside the Vatican told Le Journal du Dimanche. The letter from the Archbishop of Paris, Cardinal André Vingt-Trois, which was presented to the Pope on February 11, which brought together Cardinals asking him to accept the French ambassador has not changed his decision. Jean-Louis Tauran, the Camerlengo of the Holy Church, also interceded on behalf of Stefanini. In vain. The pope told several cardinals he would not yield.”-
The Pope is not a liberal, he is just a bit of fresh air compared to earlier conservative views about authority & morality with morality always being it seems about sex. Remove sex from the conversation & suddenly many have little to talk about regarding religion and morality.
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[url=https://www.ncronline.org/news/vatican/francis-tells-polish-clergy-gospel-unfinished-we-write-it-our-mercy]Francis tells Polish clergy: The Gospel is unfinished, we write it with our mercy[/url]
I read this and couldn’t help but be struck by the similarities in the intra-Catholic conflict and that within the US on the roll of the Courts.
You have Catholic conservatives in the Church who are “strict constructionists”, believing that he word of God is unchanging in direct opposition to the Francis progressive wing who consider the gospel to be a “living document”.
Anyway, just an observation.
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It’s not a huge deal, the conservative pope between JP II and Francis was a total failure. The church is modernizing and evolving and there is always going to be those that feel we are moving to fast or too slow but the vast majority of Catholics are very very very happy with Francis
He is a very popular pope among Catholics
Now American Protestants don’t necessarily like him because of his political views but I don’t think American Catholics don’t really care much what they think
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Pope Francis: [url=https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/09/world/pope-abortion-holiness/index.html]Helping the poor and migrants is as important as opposing abortion[/url]
Pope Francis rebukes narrow-minded Catholics and warns the world about the devil in a new document about modern holiness unveiled Monday by the Vatican.
In a pointed rebuke to Catholic anti-abortion activists who focus on the issue to the exclusion of all others, Francis says that helping the poor [link=http://www.cnn.com/2018/04/01/europe/pope-francis-baptizes-hero-migrant-easter-intl/index.html]and immigrants [/link]is as important as taking a stance against abortion.”Some Catholics consider it (the situation of migrants) a secondary issue compared to the ‘grave’ bioethical questions,” he writes.
To do so, the Pope says, is like “a politician looking for votes.”[/QUOTE]
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Once they’re born babies are a burden & deserve no help from the righteous Right and Republicans. If the babies are born poor, they are not the Right’s responsibility. It’s what Jesus says & preached in the Secret Gospels.
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Great segment on John Oliver this week on the anti-abortion people & the lies they spread to fool and control women.
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US Conference of Catholic Bishops pressuring clergy to deny communion to Pelosi, Biden …
[link=https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-election-2020-government-and-politics-religion-562a17313e43cf22dad4a17af3371572]https://apnews.com/articl…43cf22dad4a17af3371572[/link]
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2021/01/20/usccb-bishops-gomez-inauguration-statement-biden-abortion/]https://www.washingtonpos…tement-biden-abortion/[/link]
Back at the inaugural …
In a time of growing and aggressive secularism in American culture, when religious believers face many challenges, it will be refreshing to engage with a President who clearly understands, in a deep and personal way, the importance of religious faith and institutions, Gomez wrote in his statement. At the same time, he added, I must point out that our new President has pledged to pursue certain policies that would advance moral evils and threaten human life and dignity, most seriously in the areas of abortion, contraception, marriage, and gender. Of deep concern is the liberty of the Church and the freedom of believers to live according to their consciences.
Gomez called the continued injustice of abortion a preeminent priority.
Within hours, Cardinal Blase J. Cupich, the archbishop of Chicago and an ally of Francis, issued a sharp rebuke to Gomez and his supporters in putting together the statement.
Today, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops issued an ill-considered statement on the day of President Bidens inauguration. Aside from the fact that there is seemingly no precedent for doing so, the statement, critical of President Biden came as a surprise to many bishops, who received it just hours before it was released, Cupich wrote, challenging the idea that Gomezs words were endorsed by or represent U.S. bishops. The internal institutional failures involved must be addressed, and I look forward to contributing to all efforts to that end, so that, inspired by the Gospel, we can build up the unity of the Church, and together take up the work of healing our nation in this moment of crisis.
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[b]Vatican sends a smack-down to US archbishops :[/b]
[link=https://www.npr.org/2021/05/11/995796836/vatican-warns-u-s-bishops-about-denying-communion-to-supporters-of-abortion-righ] Vatican Warns U.S. Bishops About Denying Communion …
[/link]
[link=https://www.politico.com/news/2021/05/10/vatican-biden-catholic-486791]https://www.politico.com/news/2021/0…atholic-486791[/link][i]…The head of the Vaticans doctrine office is warning U.S. bishops to deliberate carefully and minimize divisions before proceeding with a possible plan to rebuke Roman Catholic politicians such as President Joe Biden for receiving Communion even though they support abortion rights….
….[/i]…. [i]He said any new statement should not be limited to Catholic political leaders but broadened to encompass all churchgoing Catholics in regard to their worthiness to receive Communion.[/i]
[i] He questioned the USCCB policy identifying abortion as the preeminent moral issue, saying it would be misleading if any new document were to give the impression that abortion and euthanasia alone constitute the only grave matters of Catholic moral and social teaching that demand the fullest accountability on the part of Catholics….[/i]
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[h4][link=https://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/558643-bishops-to-debate-banning-communion-for-president]Bishops to debate banning communion for President Biden[/link][/h4]
U.S. bishops are set Wednesday to open a controversial and divisive debate over whether [link=https://thehill.com/people/joe-biden]President Biden[/link], just the second Catholic president in U.S. history, and other politicians should be denied communion based on their stance on abortion.
There will not be a formal vote on whether to deny Biden and other pro-abortion rights Catholic politicians communion on Wednesday, but the actions at the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) three-day June General Assembly could lead to such a vote.
The bishops will debate and vote on Thursday about whether to task a committee on doctrine to start a teaching document on the Holy Eucharist, which would include if it should be denied for high-profile politicians who support abortion rights.
[/QUOTE]
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So theyre going to ignore the Vatican. Maybe theyll end up being denied the sacrament.
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[h1][b][link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2021/06/18/biden-catholic-president-bishops-abortion-communion/?wpmk=1&wpisrc=al_news__alert-politics–alert-national&utm_source=alert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=wp_news_alert_revere&location=alert&pwapi_token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJjb29raWVuYW1lIjoid3BfY3J0aWQiLCJpc3MiOiJDYXJ0YSIsImNvb2tpZXZhbHVlIjoiNTk2Y2U0M2ZhZGU0ZTI0MTE5ZDhkMjU0IiwidGFnIjoid3BfbmV3c19hbGVydF9yZXZlcmUiLCJ1cmwiOiJodHRwczovL3d3dy53YXNoaW5ndG9ucG9zdC5jb20vcmVsaWdpb24vMjAyMS8wNi8xOC9iaWRlbi1jYXRob2xpYy1wcmVzaWRlbnQtYmlzaG9wcy1hYm9ydGlvbi1jb21tdW5pb24vP3dwbWs9MSZ3cGlzcmM9YWxfbmV3c19fYWxlcnQtcG9saXRpY3MtLWFsZXJ0LW5hdGlvbmFsJnV0bV9zb3VyY2U9YWxlcnQmdXRtX21lZGl1bT1lbWFpbCZ1dG1fY2FtcGFpZ249d3BfbmV3c19hbGVydF9yZXZlcmUmbG9jYXRpb249YWxlcnQifQ.b0pYh__BzzU73mX3c0LunkbdwB1qmECKOd1aTGUB_nU]Washington Post[/link]: Catholic Bishops Move to Deny Biden from Communion[/b][/h1]
Catholic bishops Friday voted to create guidelines on the meaning of communion, a move that could be an early step towards limiting the serving of the eucharist to President Biden and other politicians who support abortion rights.
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[link=https://messaging-custom-newsletters.nytimes.com/template/oakv2?campaign_id=93&emc=edit_fb_20210624&instance_id=33727&nl=frank-bruni&productCode=FB®i_id=87974355&segment_id=61644&te=1&uri=nyt%3A%2F%2Fnewsletter%2F9c9caa51-46bc-5fcc-8d82-e3c38d09ff05&user_id=2bdf5ea5e6278eb209837e6d282ec074&fbclid=IwAR2JaFKt-nu_uh8tXWjh3aI7iMqauTiKd3V0X4uhpHINMedS0wp4XhYwGHk]https://messaging-custom-…4uhpHINMedS0wp4XhYwGHk[/link]
Frank Bruni: [b]The “graceless and foolish” efforts of Catholic bishops in the United States to censure Joe Biden
[/b]
The bishops have every right to be displeased with and even heartsick over {Biden’s support for abortion rights} and to make those feelings known. I respect their principles in this regard, just as I respect the principles of the tens of millions of Americans who oppose abortion rights. Although I am passionately pro-choice, I understand how if you believe to your core that human life begins at conception, you cannot easily let the matter of abortion go.
But I do not see the wisdom or the grace in the bishops censuring Biden in such a strident, flamboyant manner when theres so much else in his agenda for them to applaud, so much else in his actions that honors [link=https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/19/opinion/bishops-biden-communion.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage&te=1&nl=frank-bruni&emc=edit_fb_20210627]the churchs supposed values.[/link] I do not see why his position on abortion should erase and eclipse his efforts to provide financial aid to the poor, to protect vulnerable children, to recognize marginalized groups, to fight racism, to vaccinate people in developing countries, to heal the planet.…
Pope Francis gets it. He understands that his church and its followers shouldnt be reduced to any one issue. Indeed, the Vatican tried to nudge the American bishops away from this course and has [link=https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/19/world/europe/pope-francis-vatican.html?te=1&nl=frank-bruni&emc=edit_fb_20210627]conspicuously [/link][link=https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/19/world/europe/pope-francis-vatican.html?te=1&nl=frank-bruni&emc=edit_fb_20210627]not [/link][link=https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/19/world/europe/pope-francis-vatican.html?te=1&nl=frank-bruni&emc=edit_fb_20210627]endorsed it[/link]. The bishops are marching to the beat of their own pious drummer. They no doubt consider themselves brave. Arrogant is as apt a descriptor.
Foolish, too. Theyre not going to change Bidens mind about abortion. And the sternness that theyre projecting the imperiousness makes it less likely that theyll change anyone elses.
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Shocked, I tell you shocked.
[h1][b]Catholic Monsignor Who Wanted to Deny Biden Communion Resigns After Cellphone Links Him to Gay Dating App[/b][/h1] [link=https://hillreporter.com/catholic-monsignor-who-wanted-to-deny-biden-communion-resigns-after-cellphone-links-him-to-gay-dating-app-107426]https://hillreporter.com/catholic-mo…ing-app-107426[/link]
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[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/pope-francis-biden-communion/2021/09/15/f51c5614-1639-11ec-a019-cb193b28aa73_story.html]https://www.washingtonpos…b193b28aa73_story.html[/link]
[b]Pope Francis call on Bishops to Pastors, not Politicians when addressing Biden and Communion[/b]
{T}he pope advised that bishops should be pastors, and not go condemning.
Gods style is closeness, compassion and tenderness, Francis said.
Francis, speaking to reporters as he returned from a four-day trip to Hungary and Slovakia, was asked specifically about the situation in the United States, where Bidens election has elevated a long-simmering question about how to treat Catholic politicians who support abortion rights. While Francis reiterated that abortion is murder, his comments appeared like a rebuke of bishops who have advocated for taking a hard line against Biden.
I have never refused the Eucharist to anyone, Francis said, while adding that he has never knowingly encountered during Communion a politician who backs abortion rights.
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[link=https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/579093-biden-says-pope-francis-thinks-he-should-keep-receiving-communion]Biden says Pope Francis thinks he should keep receiving communion
[/link]
Biden told reporters that the issue of abortion rights, which Biden supports and which has led to calls for the Catholic Church to not offer him communion, did not come up in the discussion.
No, it didnt, he said when asked if abortion came up. We just talked about the fact that he was happy that I was a good Catholic and … keep receiving communion.
When asked if the pope said he should keep receiving communion, the president responded, Yes.
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[link=https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/579264-biden-receives-communion-in-rome]Biden receives communion in Rome
[/link]
[color=”#2b2c30″]Rev. Joe Ciccone, the vice rector of St. Patrick’s Church {which is Part of Pope Francis’ Archdiocese}, told the AP Bidens pro-abortion stance was not an issue at the church and he was happy to have the president attend. [/color]
[color=”#2b2c30″]
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Communion is what brings us together in the Lord. None of us are pure and perfect. We struggle through life. Were all saints and sinners, Ciccone said.
And when youre a public figure you have to make certain decisions, especially in a democracy, on behalf of more than just your own personal feelings, he added.[/QUOTE]
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A new reformation. The US Catholic Church vs the Roman Catholic Church.
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
A new reformation. The US Catholic Church vs the Roman Catholic Church.
US Bishops don’t take the hint …
[link=https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-bishops-set-debate-bidens-eligibility-communion-2021-11-14/]Reuters[/link]
[h1][b]Bishops to open Debate on Bidens Eligibility for Communion[/b][/h1]
U.S. Roman Catholic Bishops this week are expected to revisit whether President Joe Bidens support for abortion rights should disqualify him from receiving communion, an issue that has deepened rifts in the church since the Democrat took office.
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And yet theyve never thought it important to call a meeting about what to do with pedophile priests and bishops.
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/11/13/another-state-another-clergy-sex-abuse-scandal/]https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/11/13/another-state-another-clergy-sex-abuse-scandal/[/link]Nebraskas attorney general [link=https://ago.nebraska.gov/sites/ago.nebraska.gov/files/doc/Report%20of%20Clergy%20Sexual%20Abuse%20-%20November%204%20-%202021.pdf]recently identified[/link] 57 priests and other Catholic officials responsible for allegedly sexually abusing more than 250 victims, mainly boys, over decades while the churchs hierarchy shrugged or covered up the crimes. The number of clerics who will be criminally prosecuted is zero.
Yes, its an old story. And no, the sheer repetitiveness of what is by now a well known pattern of conduct within the church should not cauterize the outrage nor inure lawmakers to the urgency of action.
In Nebraska, the hair-raising details of Attorney General Doug Petersons report reflect the depth of the churchs arrogance and impunity. Its noteworthy that one of the states three dioceses, based in Lincoln, for years [link=https://apnews.com/article/religion-crime-nebraska-sexual-abuse-by-clergy-sexual-abuse-fd0c7fc9589f8a4f963c41fae49aabe2]refused to participate[/link] in the churchs own annual reviews of sexual misconduct. Incredibly, the church tolerated it. It was in Lincoln that church higher-ups knew about multiple allegations of sexual abuse for at least 15 years against James Benton, a priest who continued on in ministry until his retirement in 2017. Some of the allegations against him dated from the early 1980s.
The number of victims of clerical abuse who have come forward to report abuse exploded after a major investigation by the Pennsylvania attorney generals office, which published [link=https://www.attorneygeneral.gov/report/]a report[/link] on it in 2018. The next year, allegations of past abuse quadrupled, to [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2020/06/26/scandals-compensation-programs-lead-catholic-clergy-sex-abuse-complaints-quadruple-2019/?itid=lk_inline_manual_10]more than 4,400[/link], and stayed roughly in that range in 2020, according to the latest annual report on the subject by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.
It is true that the U.S. Catholic Church has been more proactive than its counterparts in almost every other country in identifying clerical sex abusers and cooperating with investigative authorities. [b]Yet the U.S. bishops have also continued spending tens of millions of dollars annually lobbying state lawmakers to prevent changes in law that would allow lawsuits for past clerical sex crimes and enable a measure of justice and healing for victims. That is morally indefensible[/b].
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Quote from dergon
Quote from DICOM_Dan
A new reformation. The US Catholic Church vs the Roman Catholic Church.
US Bishops don’t take the hint …
[link=https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-bishops-set-debate-bidens-eligibility-communion-2021-11-14/]Reuters
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[h1][b]Bishops to open Debate on Bidens Eligibility for Communion[/b][/h1]
U.S. Roman Catholic Bishops this week are expected to revisit whether President Joe Bidens support for abortion rights should disqualify him from receiving communion, an issue that has deepened rifts in the church since the Democrat took office.It’s interesting to see them spin. I’m catholic and see their viewpoint as diametrically opposed to what the church is supposed to be. If they kept people who they feel like are sinners from getting communion than no-one would be able to participate in the sacrament.
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[b]Bishops Drop Effort to Ban Communion for Politicians[/b][/h1]
U.S. Catholic bishops have dropped their effort to ban Communion for politicians who support abortion rights, avoiding a rift with President Biden, the [link=https://www.wsj.com/articles/catholic-bishops-drop-effort-to-ban-communion-for-politicians-who-support-abortion-rights-11637169752?mod=djemalertNEWS]Wall Street Journal[/link] reports.
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[h1][/h1] [link=https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/05/24/pelosi-archbishop-communion-abortion/9913015002/] Pelosi responds after archbishop denies her Holy Communion[/h3] [/link]
[link=https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Following-S-F-archbishop-s-denial-of-Communion-17206637.php] After S.F. archbishops denial of Communion to Nancy Pelosi, Pope Francis elevates progressive San Diego bishop[/link]
[h1][/h1] [h1][/h1] [h1][b]Pope Francis Names Progressive U.S. Bishop as Cardinal[/b][/h1]
[link=https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/redirect-to/?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wsj.com%2Farticles%2Fpope-francis-names-progressive-u-s-bishop-as-cardinal-11653826684]https://www.wsj.com/articles/pope-fr…al-11653826684[/link]The selection of Bishop McElroy, whose diocese has never been led by a cardinal, sends a message about the [link=https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/redirect-to/?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wsj.com%2Farticles%2Fu-s-bishops-are-divided-in-a-way-rarely-seen-in-public-1535893201%3Fmod%3Darticle_inline]popes wish for a more liberal orientation [/link]for the U.S. episcopate.
Last year, Bishop McElroy prominently opposed calls to deny Communion to [link=https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/redirect-to/?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wsj.com%2Farticles%2Fcatholic-bishops-drop-effort-to-ban-communion-for-politicians-who-support-abortion-rights-11637169752%3Fmod%3Darticle_inline]Catholic politicians who support abortion rights[/link], a category that includes President Biden and House Speaker [link=https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/redirect-to/?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wsj.com%2Ftopics%2Fperson%2Fnancy-pelosi]Nancy Pelosi[/link]. The bishop argued that the sacrament was being weaponized for political ends.
The Vatican discouraged the U.S. bishops from issuing guidelines on Communion for such politicians, [link=https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/redirect-to/?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wsj.com%2Farticles%2Fcan-catholic-social-teaching-unite-a-divided-america-11612540382%3Fmod%3Darticle_inline]warning that such a statement could be divisive[/link]. Last November, U.S. bishops voted to approve a document on Communion that didnt address the question.
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If your a catholic and I am, this seems to go against the whole theology, dogma, or whatever of what it means to be a catholic.
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If by “this” you mean “withholding communion to high profile Catholics because they fail to accept some part of Church doctrine” then yes, I agree … it’s not Christian at all
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Yes but really just being judge.
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[h3][link=https://www.jpost.com/christianworld/article-734356]Pope Francis says he might lift celibacy requirements for priests[/link][/h3]
[h2]Francis, who previously opposed the idea that celibacy was an option for leaders of the church, appeared to loosen his stance when speaking with Argentine outlet Infobae.[/h2]In the interview, which was conducted to mark the 10-year anniversary of his election as pope, Francis said: There is no contradiction for a priest to marry. [link=https://www.jpost.com/judaism/article-694799]Celibacy[/link] in the western Church is a temporary prescription. It is not eternal like priestly ordination, which is forever, whether you like it or not. Whether you leave or not is another matter, but it is forever. On the other hand, celibacy is a discipline.
Clerical celibacy has been officially mandated in the [link=https://www.jpost.com/christianworld/article-719209]Catholic Church[/link] since the 11th century. Centuries prior it was tradition for priests to vow abstinence. The ruling has been controversial within the church for at least 1,000 years, but the Vatican has persisted enforcing the requirement. Until now, Francis, like his predeccesors, preached the rule as well.
Germanys Catholic Church recently voted to request the Pope end the requirement.
Appearing to consider the request, Francis said: Everyone in the Eastern Church is married, or those who want to. Before ordination there is the choice to marry or to be celibate.” The pope cited the Eastern Rite Catholic Church, which gives more liberty to its priests.[/QUOTE]
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With Sinead OConnor passing this week. Man was she on the ball tearing up that pope picture to protest child abuse in the church.
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