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  • When will you receive Pfizers or Modernas SARS-CoV-2 vaccine?

    Posted by Unknown Member on December 14, 2020 at 6:29 am

    When and where will you get yours? Where are rads in the queue at your facility?

    If Pfizer and Moderna deliver doses for 21 million people for the US in December as forecasted, that is at least enough for every active doctor and nurse in the USA. There are about 1 million active physicians and 4 million nurses. Add in mid levels and respiratory therapists and others and subtract the ones that wont take the vaccine, then there should be enough for just about all HCP.
    The add in a million or two in assisted living/nursing home people and those facility employees and the Dec batches should be a good start. That assumes no rare side effects pop up.

    kayla.meyer_144 replied 3 years ago 46 Members · 188 Replies
  • 188 Replies
  • ruszja

    Member
    December 14, 2020 at 6:43 am

    Right after all the politically connected and NFL players are taken care of.

    • Unknown Member

      Deleted User
      December 14, 2020 at 6:57 am

      We are hearing as early as this Thursday

      • amyelizabethbarrett28_711

        Member
        December 14, 2020 at 7:02 am

        Same. Im signed up for Friday.

        • cferrier73

          Member
          December 14, 2020 at 12:22 pm

          I’m in Michigan, just a couple hours away from Pfizer. Our hospital didn’t receive the vaccine as planned. They are hoping by the end of the week. It happened to another hospital in our area too.
          All the other hospitals in the area seemed to have started vaccinating today

          • tdetlie_105

            Member
            December 14, 2020 at 12:29 pm

            We are being asked to sign up now.  Anyone hesitating about getting this?

            • radiologistkahraman_799

              Member
              December 14, 2020 at 12:57 pm

              We got email saying “Hospital employees and providers with highest risk of exposure will receive first.”
               
              Curious if that means a shaft to rad?

              • Unknown Member

                Deleted User
                December 14, 2020 at 1:30 pm

                If youre doing any procedure, Id think you qualify. Even pure diagnostic rads should prob qualify if they do any fluoro.

            • lauraqb1_119

              Member
              December 14, 2020 at 1:30 pm

              Wednesday afternoon with 2nd dose scheduled after New Year. Told my wife if I don’t come home Wednesday, don’t open the door for anyone that looks like zombie version of me. Things are starting to suspiciously looks like the plot from I am Legend…

              • tdetlie_105

                Member
                December 14, 2020 at 2:18 pm

                Quote from Fei

                Wednesday afternoon with 2nd dose scheduled after New Year. Told my wife if I don’t come home Wednesday, don’t open the door for anyone that looks like zombie version of me. Things are starting to suspiciously looks like the plot from I am Legend…

                [:D]

                • CTBarbieV

                  Member
                  December 14, 2020 at 2:26 pm

                  Here at a major NYC academic center. Told we wont be getting it until sometime between January – March.

  • btomba_77

    Member
    December 14, 2020 at 3:41 pm

    Just got my survey to fill out.   Vaccinations will start next week for hospital employees.
     
    No time frame yet.  Looks like it will be stratified by 1) Caregivers in direct Covid-19 care roles 2) Caregivers with regular or expected possible Covid exposure due to heavy patient facing clinical work 3) Caregivers with some patient care but not as frequent as #2 (that’s me), 4) Employees not involved in direct patient care.

    • tdetlie_105

      Member
      December 14, 2020 at 4:13 pm

      So I’m assuming that everyone so far is on board to get vaccinated as soon as available?

      • hattyfrench_644

        Member
        December 14, 2020 at 4:29 pm

        I’m getting mine on Wednesday. At my facility, IR is in the first group to get vaccines and diagnostic is in the second group

        • Unknown Member

          Deleted User
          December 14, 2020 at 4:51 pm

          An feeding tube insertion is aerosolizing. We do tons of procedures on patients on the COVID-19 unit.
          Rads should be included with procedure specialists.

          • j3toads

            Member
            December 14, 2020 at 6:40 pm

            Scheduled for mine this Wednesday. Hoping my 80+ parents can get theirs ( in another state) soon.

      • g.giancaspro_108

        Member
        December 14, 2020 at 7:22 pm

        Quote from jd4540

        So I’m assuming that everyone so far is on board to get vaccinated as soon as available?

         
        Why not?  Is there any compelling reason not to get it?

        • radiologistkahraman_799

          Member
          December 14, 2020 at 7:24 pm

          I would honestly give mine up if I could give it to my parents/ in laws. They need it more than I

          • enrirad2000

            Member
            December 14, 2020 at 7:55 pm

            Thur morning

      • annekenny17

        Member
        December 14, 2020 at 10:30 pm

        No hesitation here.  Any apprehension on your part?  Sounds like there may be.

        • tdetlie_105

          Member
          December 15, 2020 at 10:10 am

          Quote from roentgen8

          No hesitation here.  Any apprehension on your part?  Sounds like there may be.

           
          Yeah, just seems super-fast (a lot of politically/econimic pressure), were major corners cut?

          • francomejiamurillo_751

            Member
            December 18, 2020 at 8:25 am

            Quote from jd4540

            Quote from roentgen8

            No hesitation here.  Any apprehension on your part?  Sounds like there may be.

            Yeah, just seems super-fast (a lot of politically/econimic pressure), were major corners cut?

             
            Doubtful, Pfizer and Modernas’ reputations are on the line… this will make or break their company…
             
            Plus, potential risk from a vaccine is  far lower than getting freakin covid.  Have you been reading recently… many Americans’ lungs are getting decimated .  plus who knows what the long term mental side effects from covid could be… I’ve seen a few colleagues who have come back post covid cognitively slower then before…

            • donna_912

              Member
              December 18, 2020 at 11:59 am

              I just had covid myself 40 days ago. So Im probably passing on a vaccine right now with plans to get it with the general population in March. Id rather not take up two doses that should go to someone else who needs it more.

              • clickpenguin_460

                Member
                December 18, 2020 at 12:50 pm

                Quote from Mrdrsrow08

                I just had covid myself 40 days ago. So Im probably passing on a vaccine right now with plans to get it with the general population in March. Id rather not take up two doses that should go to someone else who needs it more.

                 
                Same.  I’m putting myself at the back of the line if even getting it at all – waiting to see more data on natural immunity.  Probably will just go ahead and get it after everyone else has.  There are several healthcare workers in the same boat at my place and we are all doing the same.  There should have been national guidance on this particular issue such as “If you have already had symptomatic covid infection, please consider delaying your vaccination.”  Something like that.

                • 22002469

                  Member
                  December 18, 2020 at 4:34 pm

                  I agree, given the initial vaccine shortages and the large number of confirmed infections there should be recommendations about it. Maybe there are and I just haven’t seen them.
                   
                  We are around 17M positive tests and probably 60M-ish actual infections. If we were really organized, we could even ask people to get blood tests and if they have COVID antibodies then delay the vaccine as well.
                   
                  Perhaps a little dicey since the duration and quality of immunity is still up in the air a bit, but we could increase vaccine efficiency this way in the near term. 
                   
                  From what I’ve seen, vaccine hesitancy is going to be a bigger issue though. I admit I’m surprised how many non MDs that work in the medical field (nurses, techs, hospital and outpatient staff) don’t want to get it. 

                • gabriella.ruffato.ext_635

                  Member
                  December 19, 2020 at 12:50 pm

                  I got the vaccine Wednesday.  No side effects.
                  I recommend the vaccine with the Bill Gates microchip.

                  • gabriella.ruffato.ext_635

                    Member
                    December 19, 2020 at 12:58 pm

                    Hopefully the geniuses out there do not follow Louis Farrakhan’s recommendations on vaccination – calling it “toxic waste”.

                  • gabriella.ruffato.ext_635

                    Member
                    December 19, 2020 at 12:59 pm

                    Hopefully the geniuses out there do not follow Louis Farrakhan’s recommendations on vaccination – calling it “toxic waste”.

                    • Unknown Member

                      Deleted User
                      December 19, 2020 at 1:14 pm

                      Got my vaccine today

                    • Unknown Member

                      Deleted User
                      December 19, 2020 at 1:42 pm

                      I’ve never been hospitalized or seriously ill in my life.  I have no medical illnesses and take no medications.  I am in great physical shape and health.  I rarely get sick, the worst has been with the flu and that wasnt bad.  I am more likely to be harmed from a side effect than to receive benefit from this vaccine.  Lots of good people die every day thinking they made a good decision without properly weighing the risks and benefits.  My decision is very easy to make, and I would say those who are old and high risk the decision is easy to take it.   Then you have a bunch of people in between that need to think hard on whether or not to take it.  Best of luck to you all!

                    • francomejiamurillo_751

                      Member
                      December 21, 2020 at 6:03 pm

                      Quote from striker79

                      I’ve never been hospitalized or seriously ill in my life.  I have no medical illnesses and take no medications.  I am in great physical shape and health.  I rarely get sick, the worst has been with the flu and that wasnt bad.  I am more likely to be harmed from a side effect than to receive benefit from this vaccine.  Lots of good people die every day thinking they made a good decision without properly weighing the risks and benefits.  My decision is very easy to make, and I would say those who are old and high risk the decision is easy to take it.   Then you have a bunch of people in between that need to think hard on whether or not to take it.  Best of luck to you all!

                       
                      Given the neurotropism of the virus and possible long term side effects, I would not want to develop dementia or lose IQ points when it’s easily preventable by a vaccine.
                       
                      Also the viral protease is known to cleave cardiac myosin, could potentially cause CHF a few unlucky percentage of the population…  why even take a chance?

                    • clickpenguin_460

                      Member
                      December 21, 2020 at 7:00 pm

                      I’m sincerely hoping that reporting data is just really bad because this is getting ridiculous. 
                       
                      11,042,450 doses allotted so far and only 614,117 given.
                       
                      [link=https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/]https://www.bloomberg.com…r-global-distribution/[/link]

                    • 22002469

                      Member
                      December 21, 2020 at 8:14 pm

                      I don’t know the first thing about how vaccines are allotted/distributed or the what % we should expect to have already been given.
                       
                      CDC website has the US at 4.6M distributed and 614k given. Basically about 100k per day given so far in the US.
                       
                      [link=https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations]https://covid.cdc.gov/cov…-tracker/#vaccinations[/link]

                    • adrianoal

                      Member
                      December 22, 2020 at 5:23 am

                      Quote from Cubsfan10

                      I’m sincerely hoping that reporting data is just really bad because this is getting ridiculous. 

                      11,042,450 doses allotted so far and only 614,117 given.

                      [link=https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/]https://www.bloomberg.com…r-global-distribution/[/link]

                       
                      apparently West Virginia is #1 in the nation in terms of getting the vaccine administered.  Would not have been my first guess.

                    • clickpenguin_460

                      Member
                      December 22, 2020 at 7:28 am

                      I just dont understand why you cant just have a big room in the hospital and have people walk through all day, give their name, and move on. Could do the same in walmarts and targets across the country. Something like 90% of the population is within 10 miles of a Walmart.

                    • satyanar

                      Member
                      December 22, 2020 at 5:37 pm

                      Waiting out my 15 minutes. Seems like the wait for potential allergic reaction is the major rate limiting step. Nurse just told
                      me they did 500 yesterday.

                    • ruszja

                      Member
                      December 22, 2020 at 5:43 pm

                      Quote from BHE

                      Quote from Cubsfan10

                      I’m sincerely hoping that reporting data is just really bad because this is getting ridiculous. 

                      11,042,450 doses allotted so far and only 614,117 given.

                      [link=https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/]https://www.bloomberg.com…r-global-distribution/[/link]

                      apparently West Virginia is #1 in the nation in terms of getting the vaccine administered.  Would not have been my first guess.

                       
                      Rather than drawing up a big statewide plan with 25 tiers and sub-tiers, they shipped the vaccine to the local health departments and told them ‘get crackin’.

                    • Unknown Member

                      Deleted User
                      December 22, 2020 at 5:46 pm

                      Got the Moderna shot today and only have soreness for now.  Was part of the first batch of the hospital.  All hospital employees will be able to be vaccinated by next week here.

                    • adrianoal

                      Member
                      December 23, 2020 at 6:12 am

                      Quote from fw

                      Quote from BHE

                      Quote from Cubsfan10

                      I’m sincerely hoping that reporting data is just really bad because this is getting ridiculous. 

                      11,042,450 doses allotted so far and only 614,117 given.

                      [link=https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/]https://www.bloomberg.com…r-global-distribution/[/link]

                      apparently West Virginia is #1 in the nation in terms of getting the vaccine administered.  Would not have been my first guess.

                      Rather than drawing up a big statewide plan with 25 tiers and sub-tiers, they shipped the vaccine to the local health departments and told them ‘get crackin’.

                       
                      So the non-central planning approach.  Sometimes with bureaucracy less is more.

                    • bcrockrell_412

                      Member
                      December 23, 2020 at 7:49 am

                      Got the first dose of the Pfizer vaccine yesterday. Little more arm soreness than the flu shot. Otherwise not a big deal.

                    • Unknown Member

                      Deleted User
                      December 23, 2020 at 6:43 pm

                      Sore arm. Achy skin feeling next day, same as after Shingrix vaccine. No fever.

                  • katiedavies05

                    Member
                    December 19, 2020 at 4:27 pm

                    Im scheduled for Wednesday.  Looking forward to it and glad to have the opportunity.  

                    • Unknown Member

                      Deleted User
                      December 19, 2020 at 5:18 pm

                      Anecdotal data I know, but I personally know a woman in her late 30s who is super fit (does marathons and in a running club) but hasnt been able to run at all after COVID myocarditis. She is not reflected isnt in the mortality statistics.

                    • amyelizabethbarrett28_711

                      Member
                      December 19, 2020 at 6:17 pm

                      I got it yesterday.  My arm got quite sore!
                      As of yesterday evening, our hospital had vaccinated several hundred individuals and had one reaction–mild hives.
                       

                    • btomba_77

                      Member
                      December 20, 2020 at 5:00 am

                      Quote from acpce1

                      I got it yesterday.  My arm got quite sore!
                      As of yesterday evening, our hospital had vaccinated several hundred individuals and had one reaction–mild hives.

                      I got Shingix this year.   That was a rough one.
                       
                      Shot one … really sore arm.
                       
                      Shot 2 — fever, whole body myalgia, achy knuckles  … it was bad enough I had to go get Covid tested.

                • kattpayne_922

                  Member
                  December 22, 2020 at 5:41 pm

                  we got pfizer last week

    • kaldridgewv2211

      Member
      December 15, 2020 at 10:41 am

      Quote from dergon

      Just got my survey to fill out.   Vaccinations will start next week for hospital employees.

      No time frame yet.  Looks like it will be stratified by 1) Caregivers in direct Covid-19 care roles 2) Caregivers with regular or expected possible Covid exposure due to heavy patient facing clinical work 3) Caregivers with some patient care but not as frequent as #2 (that’s me), 4) Employees not involved in direct patient care.

      i had filled this out and the end of it said someone would be in contact by the 22nd if I recall.  That seems like a lofty goal to have people scheduled by then.

      • btomba_77

        Member
        December 15, 2020 at 2:54 pm

        Just heard we’ll be getting the Moderna.
         
        First cohorts start on Dec 23

        • Unknown Member

          Deleted User
          December 15, 2020 at 5:33 pm

          jd4540…I don’t think it’s possible.  Friends (fairly) high up in big pharma tell me there’s too much at $take with litigation etc to ever rush something this big.  All Ts have been crossed and I’s have been dotted.
           
          Only money talks in this country. For once, that is a good thing.

          • Unknown Member

            Deleted User
            December 15, 2020 at 8:59 pm

            One bummer is even if I get vaccinated today, my spouse cannot. So while Id love to get two shots and then go on a round-the-world trip to compensate for having cabin fever all year, I cant since my spouse is still at risk for COVID.

            • ranweiss

              Member
              December 15, 2020 at 9:34 pm

              Same, my wife and kid can’t get the vaccine so it doesn’t really change anything for me.

              • ruszja

                Member
                December 16, 2020 at 10:13 am

                Quote from ar123

                Same, my wife and kid can’t get the vaccine so it doesn’t really change anything for me.

                 
                What it will change is that I 
                – probably wouldn’t bring this shit home from work
                – if one of my kids brings it home from school but remains asymptomatic, I am not at risk of carrying it into the hospital before I know it.
                 
                Wont change anything on the mask wearing social distancing aspects until there is a substantial change in immune status of the population, but for my family, its still a positive.

          • tdetlie_105

            Member
            December 16, 2020 at 6:03 am

            Quote from Voxeled

            jd4540…I don’t think it’s possible.  Friends (fairly) high up in big pharma tell me there’s too much at $take with litigation etc to ever rush something this big.  All Ts have been crossed and I’s have been dotted.

            Only money talks in this country. For once, that is a good thing.

             
            This is true, thanks!

        • kaldridgewv2211

          Member
          January 6, 2021 at 11:20 am

          Quote from dergon

          Just heard we’ll be getting the Moderna.

          First cohorts start on Dec 23

          I was able to get the moderna yesterday and second shot is 2/2.  It kind of sounds like they’re having trouble filling all appointments and we have people who volunteered to schedule from the department.  So the boss was able to get us setup.  Something like 70 from radiology were done yesterday.
           
          I feel like Mike Tyson punched my shoulder and I’m feeling mild side affects.  Like a little sore and just a little off.  other than that nothing.

          • kayla.meyer_144

            Member
            July 15, 2021 at 8:12 am

            All the posts against vaccines as more dangerous than COVID and the arguments how private businesses are “over-stepping” by requiring their employees or guests or customers be vaccinated.
             
            So, I am curious, those who have argued here that COVID is less dangerous than the flu or that the vaccines are more dangerous than COVID or believe if we all only got Ivermectin and/or hydroxychloroquine we’d have no need for “dangerous” vaccines, etc., have you all refused to be vaccinated? Or like Rand Paul, are mysterious about it? Which likely means yes, he was vaccinated, most definitely. I mean the head of Fox News, Rupert Murdoch got his vaccine even before the Queen or our president & his “news” programs on Fox are all about how the vaccine is more dangerous than COVID.
             
            Hmmm. Makes you wonder if Rand & Rupert & his people need some laxatives & other treatment because they are all full of impacted excrement.

            • lisa.kipp_631

              Member
              July 15, 2021 at 10:59 am

              Hmmm. Makes you wonder if Rand & Rupert & his people need some laxatives & other treatment because they are all full of impacted excrement.

              Whens your standup CD come out?

              • kayla.meyer_144

                Member
                July 15, 2021 at 12:08 pm

                What’s a CD? Oh yeah, like a phonograph record. Hipster stuff.
                 
                But the question till stands, did those minimizing COVID or those who argue the vaccine is more dangerous than COVID on AM get vaccinated? 
                 
                 

  • carlosadube

    Member
    December 15, 2020 at 8:39 am

     getting my first Saturday am

    • ruszja

      Member
      December 15, 2020 at 8:56 am

      You can’t make this up. Someone at the health-department fat-fingered the size of our hospital system to 1/10th of what it actually is and we were passed up for the first vaccine batch.

  • satyanar

    Member
    December 17, 2020 at 8:11 pm

    Our IR guys and residents are in the first tier. That means they are all signing up starting tomorrow and through next week. Looking like DR is in the next tier but won’t know until the email comes.

    • ester.mancuso_108

      Member
      December 17, 2020 at 10:44 pm

      Remember you can still contract and pass Covid. Youre not getting IgA antibodies from the shot.

      • ruszja

        Member
        December 17, 2020 at 10:58 pm

        Quote from Pedrad2017

        Remember you can still contract and pass Covid. Youre not getting IgA antibodies from the shot.

         
        We dont know that yet. Epidemiological data will show whether the vaccines have a ‘sterilizing’ effect.
        Data from the challenge trials done in primates suggests that there is likely a sterilizing effect present.

        • btomba_77

          Member
          December 18, 2020 at 4:59 am

          My little cousin, and newly minted MSK rad herself, just got de-blinded from her participation in the Moderna trial.
           
           
          And she got the real thing … months ago 

        • btomba_77

          Member
          December 18, 2020 at 5:01 am

          Quote from fw

          Quote from Pedrad2017

          Remember you can still contract and pass Covid. Youre not getting IgA antibodies from the shot.

          We dont know that yet. Epidemiological data will show whether the vaccines have a ‘sterilizing’ effect.
          Data from the challenge trials done in primates suggests that there is likely a sterilizing effect present.

          Correct.  That is the huge question that remains.   If true, then behavioral change will be able to come more quickly among vaccinated individuals.   
           
           If no, then  we’re stuck with aggressive mitigation until herd immunity hits.

        • adrianoal

          Member
          December 18, 2020 at 5:07 am

          Quote from fw

          Quote from Pedrad2017

          Remember you can still contract and pass Covid. Youre not getting IgA antibodies from the shot.

          We dont know that yet. Epidemiological data will show whether the vaccines have a ‘sterilizing’ effect.
          Data from the challenge trials done in primates suggests that there is likely a sterilizing effect present.

           
          And even if that doesn’t completely pan out, hopefully the data that asymptomatic people transmit far less than symptomatic people will translate to the vaccines even if they don’t completely stop people from getting infected.  
           
          Would be odd if the vaccines protect from symptomatic infections but people still spread the disease just as much.

  • ipadfawazipad_778

    Member
    December 18, 2020 at 4:42 pm

    Could have gotten it today. Passsed. Just not totally sold on safety or long term efficacy.

    • 22002469

      Member
      December 18, 2020 at 4:55 pm

      Doctors passing on this vaccine is banana-land. I actually don’t know one personally that has, we’re all first in line. Hope none of your staff asks your opinion about it.
       
      Also, “long term efficacy” is a terrible reason to not get the vaccine. If it works for 6 months it’s worth it.
       

      • clickpenguin_460

        Member
        December 18, 2020 at 6:23 pm

        So far, the only healthcare workers I know that have “passed” are those of us who have had covid.  I imagine most people who are not getting it for “political reasons” or whatever are keeping it to themselves?  I have no doubt about the vaccine safety and the vaccines should be more safe than covid to anyone over 18.  They likely will be for children too but they need to be studied further given the low risk of covid to children.
         
        Anyway, even if our natural immunity from covid doesn’t last or isn’t as good, I’m willing to bet it’s better than those who haven’t been infected so we should be at the end of the line.  RSF, I looked to see if there is any guidance at all on this issue and all I’m seeing is “if you had covid, get the vaccine still.”  But, no realization or admission that those who have had the natural infection can wait longer.
         
        I’m disappointed in the rollout so far.  I had hoped there would be higher prioritization of those who are most at risk and those who haven’t had the natural infection.  It’s almost like they want to drag this thing out for a long time or the government is just truly incapable of doing anything right 😛

        • Unknown Member

          Deleted User
          December 18, 2020 at 7:36 pm

          I am seeing some politics going on in vaccine prioritization locally. Cardiologists must have them because they to TEE, but are really money makers for the hospital. Same with the oncologists. In some places, rads are Tier 1. Other places they are lower tier.

        • Unknown Member

          Deleted User
          December 18, 2020 at 7:37 pm

          I am seeing some politics going on in vaccine prioritization locally. Cardiologists must have them because they do some TEE, but are really money makers for the hospital. Same with the oncologists. In some places, rads are Tier 1. Other places they are lower tier.

          • 22002469

            Member
            December 18, 2020 at 7:53 pm

            I’m seeing IR and diagnostic split up, IR tier 1 but not diagnostic usually.
             
            Might make some sense depending on the number of vaccines available, but diagnostic rads still do procedures, ICU thoras on COVID pts on call etc. 
             
            I got mine anyway because my hospital was too disorganized to figure any system out, plus we had a lot of non MD decliners. But overall seems like there is a lot of local variability. 

            • Unknown Member

              Deleted User
              December 18, 2020 at 9:09 pm

              I have no reason to take this, my health is great.  If I ever got COVID, I assume I would be near asymptomatic.  No chance im risking any side effects on this.  If I was older, a smoker or asthmatic, I would have to think about it – thankfully i’m not!

              • 22002469

                Member
                December 18, 2020 at 9:23 pm

                The number of doctors that have no understanding of risk or science is actually shocking. 

                • Unknown Member

                  Deleted User
                  December 18, 2020 at 9:41 pm

                  signed up to get it next week….

                  • ester.mancuso_108

                    Member
                    December 18, 2020 at 9:54 pm

                    RSF, I think striker is being reasonable. Not one of us can say what the long term effects of mRNA therapeutics and vaccines are, but we do have a reasonable understanding of COVIDs effects on the body and the likelihood of that in patients under 40. Sounds like striker is going with a known risk calculation rather than rolling the dice on taking the vaccine.

              • vanevela49

                Member
                December 19, 2020 at 6:07 am

                 
                Dumb statement. Was this in jest?
                 
                It’s not just about you (though let’s not forget the number of physically fit people who became very sick). You could pass it to your elderly at-risk patients and family.

  • 22002469

    Member
    December 18, 2020 at 10:04 pm

    Of course I don’t know striker’s exact age or risk profile, but I would be curious to hear the specific concerns regarding this vaccine.
     
    I have heard plenty of non-medical personnel discuss all kinds of strange nonsensical concerns, but what is the scientific, high-level concern with this mRNA vaccine?
     
     

    • g.giancaspro_108

      Member
      December 18, 2020 at 11:23 pm

      Anyone who gets infected may have minimal symptoms and a quick recovery without lasting damage, but the people to whom they spread it may not be so fortunate.  Vaccines are not only for the individual receiving the injection.

      • Unknown Member

        Deleted User
        December 19, 2020 at 4:07 am

        Pedrad, the risk of death from COVID for a 35 year old male with no risk factors is .07%. The risk of hospitalization is 2.8%.
        There were no significant side effects in the 22,000 people who received the Pfizer vaccine, so the risk is no greater than .004%.

        Anyway, getting the vaccine is not just about you. Its about not infecting others and getting to herd immunity to get this country back in shape.

      • donna_912

        Member
        December 19, 2020 at 4:09 am

        Striker79, Im 40 with perfect health. I got pretty sick. Almost two months later I still have this weird tingling and pain in my hands that Ive had since about a week after infection that makes mouse work and using the powerscribe mic (and texting) painful. Feels like arthritis with pins and needles. Dont be so arrogant that it wont affect you the same or worse.

        • Unknown Member

          Deleted User
          December 19, 2020 at 4:13 am

          Pedrad and Striker, the risk of death from COVID for a 35 year old male with no risk factors is .07%. The risk of hospitalization is 2.8%.
          There were no significant side effects in the 22,000 people who received the Pfizer vaccine, so the risk is no greater than .004%. Could yet unknown side effects pop up with more vaccinated? Certainly, but once 2-3 million doses are given out, we will know, which wont be long.

          Anyway, getting the vaccine is not just about you. Its about not infecting others and getting to herd immunity to get this country back in shape.

          Immunity by infection or vaccine. Your choice.

          • btomba_77

            Member
            December 19, 2020 at 4:23 am

            Shaking my head at the selfipidity   (that’s a new word a I just created to describe selfish stupidity)
             
             
            Get the vaccine for Christ’s sake.
             
             

            • kayla.meyer_144

              Member
              December 19, 2020 at 6:34 am

              Employers are able to require all employees to get the COVID vaccine according to the Federal government which includes the ability to bar them from the job if they refuse.
               
              [link=https://www.eeoc.gov/wysk/what-you-should-know-about-covid-19-and-ada-rehabilitation-act-and-other-eeo-laws]https://www.eeoc.gov/wysk…act-and-other-eeo-laws[/link]
               

              K.5. If an employer requires vaccinations when they are available, how should it respond to an employee who indicates that he or she is unable to receive a COVID-19 vaccination because of a disability? [i](12/16/20)[/i]
              [i]If there is a direct threat that cannot be reduced to an acceptable level, the employer can exclude the employee from physically entering the workplace[/i]
               
              K.7. What happens if an employer cannot exempt or provide a reasonable accommodation to an employee who cannot comply with a mandatory vaccine policy because of a disability or sincerely held religious practice or belief? [i](12/16/20)[/i]
              If an employee cannot get vaccinated for COVID-19 because of a disability or sincerely held religious belief, practice, or observance, and there is no reasonable accommodation possible, then it would be lawful for the employer to [link=https://www.eeoc.gov/wysk/what-you-should-know-about-covid-19-and-ada-rehabilitation-act-and-other-eeo-laws?utm_content=&utm_medium=email&utm_name=&utm_source=govdelivery&utm_term=#exclude]exclude[/link] the employee from the workplace.
              [size=”0″]

              [/size]
              [i]https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/18/us/eeoc-employers-coronavirus-mandate.html[/i]
              Distrust in vaccinations is also being fanned by political commentators and groups.
               

              On his Fox News show, Tucker Carlson [link=https://www.cnn.com/videos/business/2020/12/18/tucker-carlson-vaccine-false-jba-lon-orig.cnn]this week [/link]highlighted the stories of a small number of Americans who have had adverse reactions to Pfizers vaccine. And experts who study extremism [link=https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-12-18/anti-vaxxers-team-up-alt-right-against-covid-19-vaccine]have warned[/link] that groups that have protested election results and Covid-19 lockdowns across the United States are now turning their attention to the anti-vaccine movement.
               
              The rollout of a vaccine and urgent logistical questions about its distribution signal that the end of the pandemic is in sight, but the virus is also [link=https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/30/health/coronavirus-vaccines-treatments.html]deadlier[/link] than it has ever been, with the United States reporting more than 3,000 deaths in a day for the first time this month.
               
              As federal and state governments prepare for large-scale vaccination efforts, the Trump administrations messaging on the pandemic remains muddled.
               
              Vice President Mike Pence just days ago hosted a holiday party at his residence, where guests posed for pictures without masks, according to attendees. But on Friday morning, Mr. Pence received his first vaccine shot on [link=https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/18/world/pence-receives-a-coronavirus-vaccine-in-a-public-white-house-event.html]live television[/link]. He was joined by his wife, Karen Pence, and Jerome Adams, the surgeon general.

               
              [i]
              [/i]
              [i]
              [/i]

            • adrianoal

              Member
              December 19, 2020 at 7:15 am

              Quote from dergon

              Shaking my head at the selfipidity   (that’s a new word a I just created to describe selfish stupidity)

              Get the vaccine for Christ’s sake.

               
              Was told by a vaccine task force member yesterday that about 1/2 of non-physicians (nurses, etc) at our facility are declining the vaccine, while physicians who aren’t in the first group are pissed that they have to wait.  
               
              My favorite anecdote from this week was a technologist, who I get along with quite well, telling me they didn’t want to get the vaccine because their parents are elderly and they were worried they would “pass it on to them”.  I promise that is a true story.  I think I convinced them to get the vaccine (or they just humored me).
               
              To try to be fair, it must be out there somewhere on twitter/Facebook that you can get covid from the vaccine, and of course lots of people don’t have the background to know better. 

      • Unknown Member

        Deleted User
        December 19, 2020 at 4:10 am

        Pedrad, the risk of death from COVID for a 35 year old male with no risk factors is .07%. The risk of hospitalization is 2.8%.
        There were no significant side effects in the 22,000 people who received the Pfizer vaccine, so the risk is no greater than .004%. Could yet unknown side effects pop up with more vaccinated? Certainly, but once 2-3 million doses are given out, we will know, which wont be long.

        Anyway, getting the vaccine is not just about you. Its about not infecting others and getting to herd immunity to get this country back in shape.

  • clickpenguin_460

    Member
    December 19, 2020 at 7:33 am

    2 things:
    1.  The current guidelines floating around out there are telling everyone who has been vaccinated that they still have to distance, wear masks, etc because they could still spread it.  So either 1) they can still spread it so your arguments above about “protecting others” with the vaccine isn’t true or 2) they can’t spread it in any meaningful way (the most likely scenario) and thus they don’t need to wear masks, distance, etc.  Pick one.
     
    2.  I’m not a big fan of the requirement from businesses.  There are people who have had the natural infection and are waiting until the end to get the vaccine.  Why should those people be penalized for doing the right thing?  Also, there are people that may not get it due to allergic reaction histories.  I guess what I’m saying is that if they make such a requirement, how would it be enforced and would a waiver from a positive test and/or physician note stating a good reason for not getting it be sufficient.
     
     
    Also, BHE, I’m not surprised about that tech.  I’ve heard similar things every year about the flu vaccine from nurses, techs, etc.  They don’t have an understanding of inflammation and immune response and if you tell them, they think you are speaking out of your political mouth instead of your medical/physician mouth. It’s sad.

    • kayla.meyer_144

      Member
      December 19, 2020 at 8:02 am

      WTF is it with you and masks? It’s not as if you have to wear a yellow star.

      • clickpenguin_460

        Member
        December 19, 2020 at 8:03 am

        That’s what you took from what I said?  Fine, take out the word masks and then answer it.  I don’t care about the masks part.  I’m making a point that there’s conflicting guidance.

        • adrianoal

          Member
          December 19, 2020 at 8:43 am

          Didn’t want last post to be too long, but regarding your thoughts about still requiring masking etc post-vaccine:
           
          1.  Again, as more and more people are vaccinated, wherever people are on the spectrum of wanting masks/business closure/etc, public opinion will shift towards things being less restrictive (all other things e.g. current cases, being equal).  Doesn’t mean it completely flips tomorrow, and some are going to want masks etc forever, while others have never worn a mask a single day.  But no question the vaccine will decrease fear somewhat.
          2.  In terms of masks/restrictions, there are government mandates and then there are people trying to be careful regardless of what the government says.  The vaccine will clearly help with the latter, which will help businesses tremendously.  I know it will change my behavior.  I am not eating at indoor restaurants right now.  But I will again once I’m fully vaccinated (or we don’t have such a high level of infection).
          3.  Ultimately, things will get back to normal when people aren’t afraid. The vaccine will obviously help with that.
          4.  Masks …  I posted a few thoughts about those a months or so ago, and my opinion has not changed.  I think the public discussion/messaging about masks has been the most unscientific, ridiculous part of this entire thing (talking only about messaging from experts, not including things said by politicians/non-experts).  Just awful.  I’m pretty confident that will become clear at some point in the future, once the pandemic is under control and discussions are more rational.
           
          Here’s an article from Scott Gottlieb, no covid minimizer he, from a few weeks ago:
          “Some Masks Will Protect You Better Than Others”
          [link=https://www.wsj.com/articles/some-masks-will-protect-you-better-than-others-11606081251]https://www.wsj.com/artic…han-others-11606081251[/link]
           
          Excerpts:
          [i]”[b]A cotton mask offers far less protection than a surgical mask. If a cloth mask is all you can find, buy a thick one[/b]. Snug-fitting masks made of cotton-polyester blends will generally offer more protection. But even a very good cloth mask may only be about 30% protective; scarf or bandanna, 10% or less.”[/i]
          Comments:  Several of the controlled tests looking at effectiveness of masks did things like tape the mask down to the subject/mannequin’s face to prevent air from flowing around the edges, bypassing the mask.  Obviously that is not helpful in telling us how effective the masks are in practice.  Editors/referees should never have allowed those studies to be published without also including results without taping down the masks.
           
          [i]”A surgical mask could offer you better protection, on the order of 60%. But here again, quality matters. Many of the masks sold on Amazon, which say they are for dust and allergens, arent surgical masks, even though they look like the blue masks worn by nurses and doctors.”[/i]
          Comment:  Again, the 60% is not a hard and fast number by any means.  We didn’t just start looking at masks vs respiratory viruses with sars-cov-2.  It was studied extensively with influenza over the years.  The results were not encouraging.
           
          CDC also working on standards etc, because everyone realizes there is a huge difference in filtration efficacy of masks:
          [link=https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/16/health/covid-masks-effectiveness.html]https://www.nytimes.com/2…sks-effectiveness.html[/link]
          However, filtration efficacy isn’t all that meaningful if a bunch of the airflow is bypassing the mask by going around the edges.  Also, if masks aren’t washed/changed regularly their efficacy decreases.  
           
          My take on masks is again:  
          1.  I wear a mask.  It should help some, although more with droplets than aerosols.
          2.  I wear a surgical mask, or N95 in what I consider to be high risk situations.  I feel quite safe in N95, based on outcomes with health care workers.  
          3.  I don’t assume the surgical mask is offering me meaningful protection, although I hope it is doing something.  So, I don’t change my behavior– if I ‘m talking to someone inside I try to maintain distance (obviously not always possible).  And this is my problem with the messaging on masks. I am certain that many laypeople treat masks, cotton or otherwise, as making them “safe”.  And they alter their behavior accordingly.  And there is no good evidence that they are safe.

          • Unknown Member

            Deleted User
            December 19, 2020 at 9:45 am

            BHE

            There are Uber-quacks out there like shyster Joe Mercola suggesting the mRNA could alter the human genome forever. [link]https://articles.mercola….DM647798&rid=962724296[/link]

            You might become transhuman.
            Apparently he doesnt know that RNA and DNA viruses use their nuclei cells acid to transhumanize cells. As if COVID-19 is a retrovirus.

            These quacks must think a magical reverse transcriptase will somehow insert the mRNA information from the cytoplasm into the nucleus of a gonadal cell. On second thought, I bet they dont even know what transcription, ,translation and reverse transcriptase are.

          • Unknown Member

            Deleted User
            December 19, 2020 at 9:46 am

            There are Uber-quacks out there like shyster Joe Mercola suggesting the mRNA could alter the human genome forever. [link]https://articles.mercola….DM647798&rid=962724296[/link]

            You might become transhuman.
            Apparently he doesnt know that RNA and DNA viruses use their nuclei acid to transhumanize cells. As if COVID-19 is a retrovirus.

            These quacks must think a magical reverse transcriptase will appear and somehow insert the mRNA information from the cytoplasm into the nucleus of a gonadal cell. On second thought, I bet they dont even know what transcription, ,translation and reverse transcriptase are.

          • Unknown Member

            Deleted User
            December 19, 2020 at 9:50 am

            There are Uber-quacks out there like shyster Joe Mercola suggesting the mRNA could alter the human genome forever.

            You might become transhuman.
            Apparently he doesnt know that RNA and DNA viruses use their nuclei acid to transhumanize cells. As if COVID-19 is a retrovirus.

            These quacks must think a magical reverse transcriptase will appear and somehow insert the mRNA information from the cytoplasm into the nucleus of a gonadal cell. On second thought, I bet they dont even know what transcription, ,translation and reverse transcriptase are.

          • Unknown Member

            Deleted User
            December 19, 2020 at 9:51 am

            There are Uber-quacks out there like shyster Joe Mercola suggesting the mRNA could alter the human genome forever.

            You might become transhuman.
            Apparently he doesnt know that RNA and DNA viruses use their nuclei acid to transhumanize cells. As if COVID-19 is a retrovirus.

            These quacks must think a magical reverse transcriptase will appear and somehow insert the mRNA information from the cytoplasm into the nucleus of a gonadal cell. On second thought, I bet they dont even know what transcription, ,translation, RNAase, and reverse transcriptase are.

            • Unknown Member

              Deleted User
              December 19, 2020 at 9:54 am

              A little information is dangerous

              Thats why social media has ruined uneducated Americans

            • Unknown Member

              Deleted User
              December 19, 2020 at 9:54 am

              You forgot that two people wearing masks protect both themselves and others.

              Res ipsa loquitur

              [link]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DNeYfUTA11s[/link]

              • adrianoal

                Member
                December 19, 2020 at 10:40 am

                Quote from vonbraun

                You forgot that two people wearing masks protect both themselves and others.

                Res ipsa loquitur

                [link=https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DNeYfUTA11s]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DNeYfUTA11s[/link]

                 
                I assume this was referring to me.  Again, nice video, but no I did not forget.  Stance on mask data still stands.  The degree to which your mask protects others from infection in real world situations is far from settled I think (plenty of studies with varying results though; people can cite whichever one(s) fit their narrative I guess).
                 
                Wear a mask.  Act like you aren’t wearing one, particularly if you are high risk.  And yes if someone coughs in my face from a few feet away I’ll take any mask over none at all.

            • 22002469

              Member
              December 19, 2020 at 10:08 am

              Quote from vonbraun

              These quacks must think a magical reverse transcriptase will appear and somehow insert the mRNA information from the cytoplasm into the nucleus of a gonadal cell. [b]On second thought, I bet they dont even know what transcription, ,translation, RNAase, and reverse transcriptase are. [/b]

               
              Definitely the bolded above. 
               
              There is no scientific thought or understanding for most of them. This is why it’s important to no only have doctors get the vaccine, but also encourage others while clarifying the misinformation out there.
               
              Everyone lives in their own little sphere, some of the staff I work with changed their mind about the vaccine after seeing I was so excited to get it, showed up to work the next day feeling fine, etc.
               
              This type of anecdotal evaluation of risk is obviously unscientific but sometimes it matters to people. 

              • mthx9155

                Member
                December 19, 2020 at 10:38 am

                My only concern about the vaccine was that Trump’s grubby little hands were all over it, and I don’t trust his motivations for trying to push through a vaccine as fast as possible, no matter the safety profile. But I do trust the many other professionals involved in the vaccine development. Just got my vaccine a couple days ago. The manager who set me up to get it said that around half of his front-line staff didn’t want to get the vaccine. There’s a lot of distrust. 
                 
                I’ve been working with COVID+ patients every day this past week, including a 2-hour fistula declot on a patient who was coughing the whole time. I think the benefits of getting vaccinated far outweigh the risks for me. 

            • adrianoal

              Member
              December 19, 2020 at 11:19 am

              Quote from vonbraun

              There are Uber-quacks out there like shyster Joe Mercola suggesting the mRNA could alter the human genome forever.

              You might become transhuman.
              Apparently he doesnt know that RNA and DNA viruses use their nuclei acid to transhumanize cells. As if COVID-19 is a retrovirus.

              These quacks must think a magical reverse transcriptase will appear and somehow insert the mRNA information from the cytoplasm into the nucleus of a gonadal cell. On second thought, I bet they dont even know what transcription, ,translation, RNAase, and reverse transcriptase are.

               
              To be fair, there is unfortunately a preprint circulating right now saying that they found evidence of sars-cov-2 integration into the genome (due to infections, not vaccine).
               
              I saw a good thread on twitter by an actual expert explaining why this, while not completely impossible (what is in biology?), is extraordinarily unlikely and why the findings in the article are almost certainly artifact.  Unfortunately can’t find the thread, but here’s an article from someone which makes most of the points (didn’t read this entire article, but he hits this high points at least).
               
              [link=https://www.deplatformdisease.com/blog/does-sars-cov-2-have-a-reverse-transcriptase]https://www.deplatformdis…-reverse-transcriptase[/link]
              [link=https://www.deplatformdisease.com/blog/no-really-mrna-vaccines-are-not-going-to-affect-your-dna]https://www.deplatformdis…ing-to-affect-your-dna[/link]
               
              Quick summary from thread I read:
              1.  these chimeric artifacts are very common when sequencing from RNA.  almost certainly that’s what they’re seeing.
              2.  never in all of DNA sequencing has a coronavirus been found integrated into a human genome
              3.  requires specific sequence(s) at the end of the RNA to prime reverse transcription, so that the (single stranded) RNA forms a specific structure.  Odds of randomly hitting such a configuration when choosing the sequence for a vaccine?  essentially zero.  requires other specific conditions, which is why our genome isn’t essentially instantly destroyed by random RNA being constantly RT’d and integrated into our DNA (there’s plenty of RNA in our cells all the time).  If [b]random[/b] RNA were being integrated into our genome, more commonly than “almost exactly never”, life as we know it could not exist (yes I know we DO have viral nucleic acid sequences integrated into our genomes; the point is, any old RNA that you put into a cell does not get reverse transcribed and integrated).
              4.  Again, the preprint was about infections, not vaccine.  So if you ARE worried about it, you should be worried that somehow the VIRUS generates an RNA with all of the (rare) requirements for integration, and you should DEFINITELY prefer the vaccine.
               

      • Unknown Member

        Deleted User
        December 19, 2020 at 8:05 am

        I know

        Ifs fng insane ands it tiring

        They dont want any restrictions but they want to take simple steps to help end or curb the pandemic

        The bottom line is they just dont believe its real and there has been a constant goal post shifting from them to try make that argument

        Meanwhile 315,000 dead and daily death tolls closing on 4000 a day

    • adrianoal

      Member
      December 19, 2020 at 8:04 am

      Quote from Cubsfan10

      2 things:
      1.  The current guidelines floating around out there are telling everyone who has been vaccinated that they still have to distance, wear masks, etc because they could still spread it.  So either 1) they can still spread it so your arguments above about “protecting others” with the vaccine isn’t true or 2) they can’t spread it in any meaningful way (the most likely scenario) and thus they don’t need to wear masks, distance, etc.  Pick one.
       
      [i]Either I’m misunderstanding you, or we are talking about 2 different things.  The technologist was worried that by getting the vaccine they would actually be infected and able to infect others (as can rarely happen with live attenuated vaccines).  Obviously that’s not the case with the mRNA vaccines.[/i]
       
      [i]In terms of being vaccinated in order to protect others, the answer is “no one knows yet”.  As you say, most likely is being vaccinated will markedly reduce spread, even when someone who was vaccinated gets infected (and some will, obviously; super excited to see the first scare articles about someone who was vaccinated and still got infected).  So, we acknowledge the current uncertainty and do what is reasonable:  get vaccinated, and over the next few months try to understand how much that prevents infection (not just symptomatic disease) etc.[/i]
       
      [i]So, we hope for (2), but still take some precautions since we aren’t certain yet.  And we continue to argue about the level of precautions needed, as we did pre-vaccine.  But, clearly, having the vaccine will shift the argument somewhat (more in a separate post).[/i]

      2.  I’m not a big fan of the requirement from businesses.  There are people who have had the natural infection and are waiting until the end to get the vaccine.  Why should those people be penalized for doing the right thing?  Also, there are people that may not get it due to allergic reaction histories.  I guess what I’m saying is that if they make such a requirement, how would it be enforced and would a waiver from a positive test and/or physician note stating a good reason for not getting it be sufficient.
       
      [i]Seems reasonable that if someone had a documented infection (either had a PCR test or has Abs) they will be included in the “approved” group.  Businesses will push strongly for that to increase # of customers, and if we do have something like this I think that’s what most places will do.  Maybe not in Vermont.[/i]

      • clickpenguin_460

        Member
        December 19, 2020 at 8:07 am

        The first part was directed as some of the other posters above who had said “vaccines are not only for the individual.”  I agree with that statement but that’s not what we are being told by the overlords.  They are basically saying that 1. you can still spread it after a vaccine and 2. covid is still possible until everyone is vaccinated.  Those don’t really make sense but they want to push the narrative of covid danger as long as possible.  Even if all humans on Earth were vaccinated, you’d still have some people say “but what if!” and try to institute some restrictions. Hopefully, those people will be turned away when the time comes.

        • btomba_77

          Member
          December 19, 2020 at 8:11 am

          You sound like Tucker Carlson.
           
           

          • clickpenguin_460

            Member
            December 19, 2020 at 8:16 am

            Because I’m pointing out a contradiction in guidance?
             
             

            • ruszja

              Member
              December 19, 2020 at 8:22 am

              Tucker just can’t help himself. If there is a way to maximize the carnage while getting his name mentioned, he will take advantage of it.

  • Unknown Member

    Deleted User
    December 19, 2020 at 9:42 am

    There are Uber-quacks out there like shyster Joe Mercola suggesting the mRNA could alter the human genome forever. [link=https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/09/12/coronavirus-vaccine-transhumanism.aspx?cid_source=dnl&cid_medium=email&cid_content=art1ReadMore&cid=20200912Z1&mid=DM647798&rid=962724296]https://articles.mercola….DM647798&rid=962724296[/link]

    You might become transhuman.
    Apparently he doesnt know that all viruses do this.

    These quacks must think a magical reverse transcriptase will somehow insert the mRNA information from the cytoplasm into the nucleus of a gonadal cell. On second thought, I bet they dont even know what transcription, ,translation and reverse transcriptase are.

  • 22002469

    Member
    December 19, 2020 at 10:48 am

    Quote from qxrt

    My only concern about the vaccine was that Trump’s grubby little hands were all over it, and I don’t trust his motivations for trying to push through a vaccine as fast as possible, no matter the safety profile. But I do trust the many other professionals involved in the vaccine development. Just got my vaccine a couple days ago. The manager who set me up to get it said that around half of his front-line staff didn’t want to get the vaccine. There’s a lot of distrust. 

    I’ve been working with COVID+ patients every day this past week, including a 2-hour fistula declot on a patient who was coughing the whole time. I think the benefits of getting vaccinated far outweigh the risks for me. 

     
    I hear that but I don’t think Trump really had anything to do with it. Too many respected people are supporting it (Fauci et al.) to be afraid there was actually something sketchy going on with the development or safety/efficacy data.
     
    The one thing the US can still do, despite our colossal failure in many ways, is really good science.  
     
     

    • mthx9155

      Member
      December 19, 2020 at 11:14 am

      Quote from Radsoxfan

      I hear that but I don’t think Trump really had anything to do with it. Too many respected people are supporting it (Fauci et al.) to be afraid there was actually something sketchy going on with the development or safety/efficacy data.

      The one thing the US can still do, despite our colossal failure in many ways, is really good science.  

       
      Yes, but it’s hard to ignore rumors like the White House threatening to fire the FDA commissioner if he didn’t approve the vaccine quickly. It’s just a rumor, and I know it may as just well be false, but what’s scary is that it’s totally plausible to think that Trump would do it. He is an unethical, self-interested person. I don’t think even many people who voted for him would argue with that. 
       
      Anyway, I recognize that many trustworthy professionals were behind the development so got the vaccine myself, and would strongly recommend others get it too. 

      • 22002469

        Member
        December 19, 2020 at 11:41 am

        Quote from qxrt

        Yes, but it’s hard to ignore rumors like the White House threatening to fire the FDA commissioner if he didn’t approve the vaccine quickly. It’s just a rumor, and I know it may as just well be false, but what’s scary is that it’s totally plausible to think that Trump would do it. He is an unethical, self-interested person. I don’t think even many people who voted for him would argue with that. 

         
        I agree, certainly Trump would do anything in his individual best interests and he probably did pressure the FDA to approve the vaccine.
         
        Fortunately this is not evidence that the FDA or anyone in development actually changed their decision-making based on anything Trump did. Also, it’s not like we are the only country that has approved the vaccine. 
         
        I’m sure we are on the same page entirely, just saying that I feel entirely confident in the approval process despite the fact that Trump is a turd. 

        • Unknown Member

          Deleted User
          December 19, 2020 at 12:42 pm

          I dont believe trump had much to do with the vaccine

          Pfizer was pretty much on its own

          The Astra Zeneca one has nothing to do with the USA

          I give him no credit and no fault

          This was purely big pharma making it happen

  • Unknown Member

    Deleted User
    December 19, 2020 at 2:28 pm

    I am more likely to be harmed from a side effect than to receive benefit from this vaccine.

    If you are over 30, you need to crunch the numbers again.

    • erasmopa

      Member
      December 19, 2020 at 2:44 pm

      I am in good health and early 40s. I am getting vaccinated. I doubt Id get a severe case of covid.

      But lets assume for simplicity that my risk of lung or myocardial damage from covid is 1 in 100 and my risk of an equivalent side effect from the vaccine is 1 in 1000, getting the vaccine is still the right decision for me personally. And it helps others.

      • Unknown Member

        Deleted User
        December 19, 2020 at 2:47 pm

        Use some data to estimate death and hospitalization risk.

        [link]https://south-dakota.covid-age.com/[/link]

        • erasmopa

          Member
          December 19, 2020 at 2:52 pm

          Even though I was never overly worried about how covid would affect me, there are other selfish benefits to the vaccine. I can visit parents, relatives and friends who may have good reason to be worried about covid or may be more neurotic than me. I can travel more freely.

        • adrianoal

          Member
          December 19, 2020 at 3:26 pm

          Quote from vonbraun

          Use some data to estimate death and hospitalization risk.

          [link=https://south-dakota.covid-age.com/]https://south-dakota.covid-age.com/[/link]

           
          That is a useful website.
           
          Looks like even a very healthy 30 year old has a hospitalization risk over 2% and risk of ending up in ICU of 0.4%  (although only 0.05% mortality).  Seems pretty unlikely 2% are going to get hospitalized by the vaccine (or 0.05% die).
           
          Agree people might want to look at that before taking the mental shortcut of “I’m low risk”, mentally rounding it down to “I’m at zero risk”, and choosing to skip the vaccine.

          • gabriella.ruffato.ext_635

            Member
            December 19, 2020 at 3:29 pm

            This is a selfish reason to take the vaccine.  Two colleagues, older, died while working in the E.R.  Those on this board should take this into account if they are not immunized.
            Covid is an ugly death.
             

          • 22002469

            Member
            December 19, 2020 at 4:02 pm

            Quote from BHE

            That is a useful website.

            Looks like even a very healthy 30 year old has a hospitalization risk over 2% and risk of ending up in ICU of 0.4%  (although only 0.05% mortality).  Seems pretty unlikely 2% are going to get hospitalized by the vaccine (or 0.05% die).

            Agree people might want to look at that before taking the mental shortcut of “I’m low risk”, mentally rounding it down to “I’m at zero risk”, and choosing to skip the vaccine.

             
            In addition to this entirely correct advice, I would point out many of us have seen significantly abnormal chest CTs from patients scanned for other reasons and not symptomatic at all.
             
            Obviously it will take many years to know the consequences (if any) of these types of findings, but it’s not something I want to find out personally if I can easily avoid it. We know inflammation is bad in general, no guarantee it will heal entirely or not put someone at a higher risk of future malignancy. 
             
            Again, none of this assured and it’s not like I’m panicking about this theoretical possibility. But if there is an easy way to avoid having my lungs look like that, sign me up. 
             
             

  • Unknown Member

    Deleted User
    December 19, 2020 at 6:53 pm

    The second Pfizer shot will produce a greater percentage of known side effects, as the trials have shown.
    I suspect some vaccinated people will experience side effects similar to the Shingrix vaccine. You feel malaise for a day or two, and then you are fine. That vaccine is highly effective. It has an adjuvant.

    • asevvala_18

      Member
      December 19, 2020 at 7:07 pm

      Vaccinated today. So far so good, no soreness, no temp. 2nd dose scheduled January 9th. 

      • cchandc

        Member
        December 19, 2020 at 9:04 pm

        Im jealous of you guys get the vaccine so soon. Rads in my group have been doing procedures on COVID patients (and going into the hospitals) all along… but no word when it will be available for us.

  • Unknown Member

    Deleted User
    December 20, 2020 at 10:52 am

    As an outpatient, community radiologist I am not eligible to get it anytime soon.

    They are only giving it to useless people like hospital administrators and politicians.

    • beatlesfandan_539

      Member
      December 20, 2020 at 4:01 pm

      [link=https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-9031633/How-coronavirus-vaccine-designed-JANUARY.html]https://www.dailymail.co….-designed-JANUARY.html[/link]
       
      It took a whopping one weekend to develop this vaccine…

      • ruszja

        Member
        December 20, 2020 at 5:31 pm

        Quote from arule2003

        [link=https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-9031633/How-coronavirus-vaccine-designed-JANUARY.html]https://www.dailymail.co….-designed-JANUARY.html[/link]

        It took a whopping one weekend to develop this vaccine…

         
        And the folks running BioNTech had already canceled staff vacations and put everyone on that project.
         
        Both companies approach has a common origin in some UPenn and MIT research from the 2005-2012 timeframe. Really fascinating who two companies arrived at the same product under an EUA within a week of each other.

        • adrianoal

          Member
          December 20, 2020 at 6:26 pm

          An article some may find interesting about just one of the many pieces of basic research that enabled these vaccines to be produced so quickly (edit:  it’s pretty cool, and goes back to why the RSV vaccine was a disaster, how work on MERS helped with the SARS-CoV-2 vaccines, with some very clever protein engineering etc) :
           
          [link=https://cen.acs.org/pharmaceuticals/vaccines/tiny-tweak-behind-COVID-19/98/i38]https://cen.acs.org/pharm…behind-COVID-19/98/i38[/link]
           
          Also, a recent editorial about the same topic, although more of a broad overview (I didn’t find it quite as interesting, but some good points):
           
          [i]”A lot went into the mRNA platform that we have today, says immunologist Akiko Iwasaki at the Yale School of Medicine in New Haven, Connecticut, who has worked on nucleic-acid vaccines those based on lengths of DNA or RNA for more than two decades. The basic research on DNA vaccines began at least 25 years ago, and RNA vaccines have benefited from 1015 years of strong research, she says… [b]The approach has matured just at the right time; five years ago, the RNA technology would not have been ready[/b].”[/i]
           
          These were definitely cases of “overnight success decades in the making”.  Bottom line:  don’t skimp on basic research!
           
          [link=https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03626-1]https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03626-1[/link]

    • ruszja

      Member
      December 20, 2020 at 7:15 pm

      Quote from BruceCampbell

      As an outpatient, community radiologist I am not eligible to get it anytime soon.

      They are only giving it to useless people like hospital administrators and politicians.

      Contact your county health department. Ours has been quite helpful with providing PPE and they have my staff on the list for the vaccine. They are still working the nursing homes and EMS, but private sector practices are on their list.

      • 22002469

        Member
        December 20, 2020 at 8:25 pm

        Non-frontline outpatient docs are probably going to be able to get the vaccine sooner than you would think given the number of people declining it. 
         
        I don’t know what experts predicted before the vaccine roll-out, but it’s surprised me how low the non-MD acceptance of this vaccine has been at multiple local hospitals. 

        • clickpenguin_460

          Member
          December 20, 2020 at 8:37 pm

          Most non physicians (besides some scientists) dont even know what mRNA is, let alone why vaccines made from it should be safe. That’s before you even take into account political reasons or whatever ever people are saying. I’ve had several family members and friends ask me about the safety and even a couple who said things like “I’m not getting it because it has fetal parts in it.”

          Lots of bad info out there. Just annoying because people not getting it is going to give more ammunition to the government to keep things locked down, etc.

          • kayla.meyer_144

            Member
            December 21, 2020 at 2:41 pm

            Quote from Cubsfan10

            [b]I’ve had several family members and friends ask me about the safety and even a couple who said things like “I’m not getting it because it has fetal parts in it.” [/b]

            What parts? This is silly beyond ignorance.
             
            One would hope you disabused them of their ignorance.

            • clickpenguin_460

              Member
              December 21, 2020 at 3:01 pm

              Quote from Frumious

              Quote from Cubsfan10

              [b]I’ve had several family members and friends ask me about the safety and even a couple who said things like “I’m not getting it because it has fetal parts in it.” [/b]

              What parts? This is silly beyond ignorance.

              One would hope you disabused them of their ignorance.

               
              Yeah…extremely silly.  I[i] think[/i] they were trying to say that it had something to do with research from cells that theoretically came from aborted fetuses?  But that’s not exactly “fetal parts” and even the Pope said it was all good to get vaccines that could have had fetal cells used in research.
               
              I basically told them that there were no fetal parts (figured it wasn’t worth explaining the cell thing), it’s extremely safe, and there is no good reason to not get it just like any other vaccine.  I still don’t think they are going to get it though even though I basically said that belief was stupid in the nicest way I could.
               
              I was just providing an example of crazy things floating around out there on the Internet since two separate people said this to me, both getting the info from Facebook.

              • susquam

                Member
                December 21, 2020 at 3:54 pm

                I was scheduled for tomorrow but expected doses haven’t showed up and overall number has been reduced.  Hoping next week
                 
                 
                I fall in the relatively young and healthy crowd. There was a segment on 60 minutes about three weeks ago about something they are calling ” long haulers”. Seems to mainly affect healthy people with mild bouts of covid. This changed my mind but no one should be forced or pressured into the vaccine. Each individual needs to weigh their own risks.

              • kayla.meyer_144

                Member
                December 21, 2020 at 3:58 pm

                “Info” from Facebook is an oxymoron. Unfortunately too many people get their “info” from Facebook & stay ignorant. But they are riled up about what they read. They don’t know what it is but they know it’s bad.

  • vhudson_121

    Member
    December 20, 2020 at 8:57 pm

    Ive done several procedures on COVID patients- including some young very sick ones.

    I was thankful to get the first dose yesterday.  Arm a little sore today- expect a bigger reaction after the 2nd dose.

    • janecreeve_520

      Member
      December 21, 2020 at 3:26 am

      I got mine Friday

      Article in New Yorker said 10 days till full protective effect

      • rwalmsley_851

        Member
        December 21, 2020 at 7:16 am

        10 days after second dose for full effect

        • 22002469

          Member
          December 21, 2020 at 7:35 am

          Data shows 10 days after first dose for protection.

          It was a 2 dose study so unclear how long that protection from just 1 dose would be, as everyone got the booster shot at 21 days.

          But the graphs of infections with placebo vs vaccine split dramatically at just 10 days after dose 1.

          • clickpenguin_460

            Member
            December 21, 2020 at 8:42 am

            Yep, 52% effective at preventing covid 10 days after 1st dose. 95% effective after 2 doses.
             
            Of note, 2 doses gave 100% protection against “severe” covid and one dose probably has some range between 53-100 for that as well.
             
            I know you all will get 2 doses so it’s a bit moot but I’ve been happy to see those numbers for the many of the general public which will likely not get the 2nd dose.
             
            On a related note, I’m seeing a lot of vaccine doses distributed and not given, even at my local hospitals.  This is concerning.  Either a lot of people are declining (maybe), administrative people can’t schedule quickly (more likely), or both.  For example, I know that our nearest large metro hospital/academic center is getting ~10,000 doses a week and they released a memo saying they won’t be able to vaccinate residents/fellows until mid January.  How is that possible??
             
             
            2.9 million doses distributed and on 558,000 given.  What’s going on?  Are we in the midst of a complete administration failure?
             
            [link=https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/]https://www.bloomberg.com…r-global-distribution/[/link]

            • 22002469

              Member
              December 21, 2020 at 9:16 am

              A few points on the 1 dose vs 2 dose efficacy as this is going to be an important topic in the coming months.
               
              –“full protection” with maximum circulating antibodies likely will be roughly 10 days after the 2nd dose
               
              –as Cubsfan points out, efficacy may be higher for “severe” COVID than the numbers imply
               
              –None of the completed trials were designed as a 1 dose trial (yet)
               
              –There is significant pushback against the 52% number, with the actual % yet to be determined, but likely much higher.
              From the trial- [b]”When examining rates of disease after the first dose of vaccine and before the second, there were 39 cases in the vaccinated group and 82 in the placebo group, resulting in a 52.4% efficacy rate after one dose (95% CI 29.5-68.4).”[/b]
               
              As far as I can tell, this number includes those who got COVID in the first 10 days, likely before protection kicked in based on the graphs. Additionally, since everyone got the booster shot, there was no way to tell what happens after a single dose.
               
              While the length of protection is still unclear, the graphs split far before the booster and if those patients were followed it’s almost assured the placebo patients would continue getting COVID at a higher rate than those with only 1 shot.
               
              –I have seen knowledgeable people speculate 80%+ effectiveness for the first dose, but for an unknown duration of time (though we also don’t have the duration for the 2 dose regimen either).
               
               

              • clickpenguin_460

                Member
                December 21, 2020 at 9:18 am

                Makes sense.  That would be really good news.  As you said, it’s going to be important because a lot of people are going to skip out on the 2nd dose for a multitude of (bad) reasons.
                 
                Also, I’m worried about this:
                2.9 million doses distributed and only 558,000 given.  What’s going on?  Are we in the midst of a complete administration failure?
                 
                [link=https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/]https://www.bloomberg.com…r-global-distribution/[/link]

            • 22002469

              Member
              December 21, 2020 at 9:20 am

              Quote from Cubsfan10

              2.9 million doses distributed and on 558,000 given.  What’s going on?  Are we in the midst of a complete administration failure?

              [link=https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/]https://www.bloomberg.com…r-global-distribution/[/link]

               
              Probably a combination of the reasons you mentioned, but I continue to be disappointed with the number of people refusing the vaccine. 
               
              Hospitals have had to change things up on the fly to account for more available doses than they expected. 

              • 22002469

                Member
                December 21, 2020 at 9:29 am

                I also don’t really know why for the overall 2 dose efficacy they only included infections 7 days after dose 2, but when discussing the single dose efficacy they didn’t exclude the early cases.
                 
                Maybe they had an interest in promoting the 2 dose regimen?
                 
                [b]Among the 40,137 participantswith and without evidence of prior infection, 9 cases occurred with onset at least 7 days after receiving the second dose of BNT162b2, and 169 cases occurred with onset at least 7 days afterreceiving the second dose of placebo.  [/b]
                [ul][*][b]BNT162b2 was 94.6% effective inpreventing COVID-19 disease in this group (95%CI89.9-97.3). [/b] [/ul]  

                • 22002469

                  Member
                  December 21, 2020 at 9:41 am

                  I’m sure plenty if people have seen this, but here is the Pfizer graph.
                   
                  Again, you can’t assume the curve for 1 shot would look similar after 21 days because all of these people got the 2nd booster shot.
                   
                  But significant protection clearly starts before the booster (around day 10 after shot #1) and we need some good 1 dose studies to get better efficacy numbers. 52% likely underestimates significantly, but we don’t know by how much.
                   

  • Unknown Member

    Deleted User
    December 21, 2020 at 12:22 pm

    Congrats to all who got the vaccine and now when someone dies from covid even though they got the vaccine, they will say it’s because your vaccine didnt cover that particular strain of covid.  They should make the vaccine so that it only covers 1 strain, and then make a separate vaccine for each different strain and make it like a 12 dose regimen so they can really make lots of money!

    • clickpenguin_460

      Member
      December 21, 2020 at 12:54 pm

      Thankfully, the natural infection and hopefully the vaccine should cover all strains present and future.  Coronaviruses aren’t known to go through genetic shift like influenza.  The only question is how long these things will confer immunity.  We know the natural infection can confer immunity for at least 9 months and some studies have suggested “years to lifelong” based on MERS/SARS research.

    • kayla.meyer_144

      Member
      December 21, 2020 at 2:44 pm

      Quote from striker79

      Congrats to all who got the vaccine and now when someone dies from covid even though they got the vaccine, they will say it’s because your vaccine didnt cover that particular strain of covid.  They should make the vaccine so that it only covers 1 strain, and then make a separate vaccine for each different strain and make it like a 12 dose regimen so they can really make lots of money!

      Ah, but the real question is if you get the vaccine AND you get hit by a car and die, will the death certificate state you died of COVID so that the hospital can get more in reimbursement?

  • ruszja

    Member
    December 21, 2020 at 9:45 pm

    Quote from Theforce111

    Also the viral protease is known to cleave cardiac myosin, could potentially cause CHF a few unlucky percentage of the population…  why even take a chance?

     
    ’cause he is 10ft tall and invincible.
     
     
     
     
     
     
    Anyone involved in the care of a substantial number of covid patients knows that they dont want to catch this.

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