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What is “legitimate rape” Calling upon you rightwingers to explain
[link=http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/20/politics/campaign-wrap/index.html?hpt=hp_t2]http://www.cnn.com/2012/0…p/index.html?hpt=hp_t2[/link]
One of your fellow right wing nutjobs says that in cases of legitimate rape, the woman’s body has the power to shut down the process of becoming pregnant.
Could one of you right wing wackos explain to the rest of us what a legitimate rape is? I’m all ears!
Also, what is this amazing process where a woman can prevent her body from becoming pregnant without any medical intervention?
Again, I’d love to hear the explanation from one of you right wing nutjobs.
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107 Replies
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We obviously don’t believe this. Everyone knows it was ridiculous. However, I do think he was referring to actual penetration being legitimate rape instead of other cases of touching or something. That is the only interpretation I can come up with.
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Look-to anybody who has common sense-even the severe knuckle-draggers need to be highlighted and removed.
By comparison, it is strange though how democrats such as Maxine Waters can stick around after encouraging inner city rioting, and, Ted Kennedy underwater antics.-
Anytime a thread starts with ‘you rightwingers’ or ‘you lefties’ it is an admission that the OP has nothing of much importance to say and is just trying to get another inane left-right bashing thread going. Typical troll behaviour.
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Aiken must go. He’s a pox on the house. Conservatives en-masse are calling for him to quit. Today, the Tea Party, Hannity, Coulter, Malkin, National Review and Powerline all publicly called for him to drop out of the race. Romney and Ryan condemned his comments within minutes. He’s been ex-communicated. He’s toast.
It was reassuring to see good, principled conservatives stand up against stupidity, even when it comes from their own ranks. Lead by example. [i]Ductus exemplo. [/i]
It would be nice to see the Democrats show the same moral fortitude when the Maxine Waters types, the Harry Reed types or the DWS types in their ranks spew some stupidity. Better yet, issue a public condemnation of their ad agency, when it accuses Romney of causing the cancer death of a woman.-
Legitimate rape” is not a term invented by liberals. It was invented by the right concerned about women who would use this “loophole” and falsely claim rape. Then again there’s Sharon Angle’s take that pregnancy resulting in rape is “part of the plan.”
These are beliefs not by closeted extremists but by people “elected” to run for high office by the GOP. So you all have to answer for your own decisions & votes & Dark Age beliefs. No democrat or liberal did this.-
Purely for academic interest (not as a forum attack or anything), there was an interesting interview on NPR last night tracking the development of the belief that women can not be impregnated by rape:
[link=http://www.npr.org/2012/08/20/159392690/examining-the-truth-about-rape-and-pregnancy]http://www.npr.org/2012/08/20/159392690/examining-the-truth-about-rape-and-pregnancy[/link]
BLOCK: Let’s go back to 1998 and a statement from Fay Boozman, the late Fay Boozman of Arkansas. He was running for U.S. Senate, and he said fear-induced hormonal changes could block a rape victim’s ability to conceive. What happened after that?
BAUMANN: This was said in a pretty small setting in a club meeting, and it got little notice until a local columnist wrote it up and used the phrase “God’s protective little shield” to refer to Boozman’s argument that legitimate rape couldn’t result in conception.
Now, that columnist now says Boozman himself never said that phrase, but the phrase drew national attention. And when the Associated Press and The Washington Post followed up with Boozman, he said: Well, basically I do believe that there’s an adrenaline rush that prevents conception during legitimate rape or forcible rape. And there’s no truth to that, but that’s what he believes.
BLOCK: Fay Boozman lost that race for Senate. He did go on to be tapped by then Governor Mike Huckabee to run Arkansas’ Health Department. Another example from 1995 – this is North Carolina State Representative Henry Aldridge, who said: The facts show that people who are raped, who are truly raped, the juices don’t flow, the body functions don’t work and they don’t get pregnant.
And a similar statement turns up from 1988. Pennsylvania Republican State Representative Steven Friend says: “The odds of a woman becoming pregnant through rape are one in millions and millions and millions.” He says, “the trauma of rape causes women to secrete a certain secretion” – those are his words – “which has a tendency to kill sperm.”
And the reason this notion has taken hold in some anti-abortion circles:It’s a very convenient idea for people who oppose abortion in all cases to embrace because, if there are no pregnancies from rape, then you don’t need to make an exception for it.
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Quote from dergon
Purely for academic interest (not as a forum attack or anything), there was an interesting interview on NPR last night tracking the development of the belief that women can not be impregnated by rape:
[link=http://www.npr.org/2012/08/20/159392690/examining-the-truth-about-rape-and-pregnancy]http://www.npr.org/2012/08/20/159392690/examining-the-truth-about-rape-and-pregnancy[/link]
BLOCK: Let’s go back to 1998 and a statement from Fay Boozman, the late Fay Boozman of Arkansas. He was running for U.S. Senate, and he said fear-induced hormonal changes could block a rape victim’s ability to conceive. What happened after that?
BAUMANN: This was said in a pretty small setting in a club meeting, and it got little notice until a local columnist wrote it up and used the phrase “God’s protective little shield” to refer to Boozman’s argument that legitimate rape couldn’t result in conception.
Now, that columnist now says Boozman himself never said that phrase, but the phrase drew national attention. And when the Associated Press and The Washington Post followed up with Boozman, he said: Well, basically I do believe that there’s an adrenaline rush that prevents conception during legitimate rape or forcible rape. And there’s no truth to that, but that’s what he believes.
BLOCK: [i][b]Fay Boozman lost that race for Senate. He did go on to be tapped by then Governor Mike Huckabee to run Arkansas’ Health Department. [/b][/i]Another example from 1995 – this is North Carolina State Representative Henry Aldridge, who said: The facts show that people who are raped, who are truly raped, the juices don’t flow, the body functions don’t work and they don’t get pregnant.
And a similar statement turns up from 1988. Pennsylvania Republican State Representative Steven Friend says: “The odds of a woman becoming pregnant through rape are one in millions and millions and millions.” He says, “the trauma of rape causes women to secrete a certain secretion” – those are his words – “which has a tendency to kill sperm.”And the reason this notion has taken hold in some anti-abortion circles:
It’s a very convenient idea for people who oppose abortion in all cases to embrace because, if there are no pregnancies from rape, then you don’t need to make an exception for it.
See, this is what’s frightening (highlighted text above): these people are out there being tapped for all sorts of positions of influence despite the known fact they harbor archaic, dangerous beliefs. I think this is what the OP was asking GOP-apologists here to address, and I support even the hysterical tone….. ? How can any of you defend the GOP as it climbs into bed with, I don’t mind saying it, mouth-breathing, Talibanesque monsters?
Edit: the links to influence continue to unfurl: [link=http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-doctor-behind-todd-akins-rape-theory-was-a-romney-surrogate-in-2007-20120821,0,80862.story]http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-doctor-behind-todd-akins-rape-theory-was-a-romney-surrogate-in-2007-20120821,0,80862.story[/link]
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This is a problem. The more you read about this Akin guy and his cohorts, the theme songs to “Deliverance” and “Raising Arizona” immediately come to mind. There is a small chance Akin could be the “Willie Horton” of 2012.
At the same time, it is high sanctimony for the dems (surprise surprise) to be playing the gender card. “Little” brow-beat 30 year old chick/democrat inside operative Sandra Fink cant walk to her local CVS and shell out a 5 dollar co-pay (paying 60K to go to an elite law school) for her own contraception. Then she makes it seem like Georgetown physicians wont write her a prescription due to their “institutional beliefs”, which of course is not true. She could have gotten a script from any Georgetown medical personnel and gotten it filled off campus. Meanwhile, 6000 to 7000 young middle aged women are estimated to die from full enactment of Obamacare with full institution of the US Preventative Task Force Recommendations eliminating mammography for pts. under 50 (Univ. of Colorado/Univ of Michigan-see AJR February 2011 vol. 196. no. 3 W112-116). Yes, Ms. Sebileus we know you have a deep history of suing and screwing doctors routinely, but to make women suffer for the glory of lopsided policy?
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And just to let you know this isn’t some rare, isolated viewpoint:
[link=http://www.kansascity.com/2012/08/20/3771226/doctors-dispute-akins-claim-but.html]http://www.kansascity.com/2012/08/20/3771226/doctors-dispute-akins-claim-but.html[/link]
[b]Doctors dispute Akins claim, but some supporters say it was misunderstood [/b]
Tim Wildmon, president of the American Family Association a nonprofit that describes itself as a pro-family organization told The Star on Monday that fair-minded people know what Akin really meant by his statement. Wildmon speculated that Akin was differentiating between forcible rape and statutory rape, which can be consensual.
What I read from some medical sources, when a woman is raped, her body shuts down in some respects that may prevent her from getting pregnant, Wildmon said.
Wildmon referred to [link=http://www.christianliferesources.com/article/rape-pregnancies-are-rare-461]an article[/link] by physician John Willke, president of the Life Issues Institute a nonprofit anti-abortion group and former president of the National Right to Life Committee. In that article, titled Rape Pregnancies are Rare and published in April 1999, Willke wrote that one of the most important factors to consider is that a rape victims hormone production during such trauma may be upset, resulting in a possible pregnancy being compromised.
Theres no greater emotional trauma that can be experienced by a woman than an assault rape, the article reads. This can radically upset her possibility of ovulation, fertilization, implantation and even nurturing of a pregnancy.
This stuff actually has a sizable constituency. Just part of the deal the devil the republican party made by getting into bed with the religious right. Sometimes they’ll get the bump, sometimes the crazies will hurt them at the polls with the mainstream.-
The person most helped by Akin was Yoder. It took the focus off his stunt in the Sea of Gallilee. Good neighbor helping out is what he feels about Akin.
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For all the pious self serving platitudes from the right (who care only about the election; they basically agree with Akin) none have called for him to resign his house seat.
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Where are calls for Biden to resign?
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For one thing, he isn’t an extremist like Akin, Ryan & other republicans & unlike Mr. Nowhere Man, Romney, he believes in something.
[attachment=0]-
Believes in what? Race-baiting?
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that’s a joke…please..Biden is preparing for his debate with the Ryan plan!!!
Quote from Ben Casey
Where are calls for Biden to resign?
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Quote from Noah’sArk
that’s a joke…please..Biden is preparing for his debate with the Ryan plan!!!
Quote from Ben Casey
Where are calls for Biden to resign?
Again, there is nothing in Biden’s entire political history that would indicate he has harbored any racial bias whatsoever. On the contrary, his entire political career has focused on helping the poor, elderly, infirm, and disadvantaged. Any claim that his remark was a racial slur is either from the media (simply to report the facts of the day or to deliberately incite the audience) or from closet racists who view EVERYTHING through the bigot filter. Did anyone notice that the Democrats did not make so much as a peep about Ryan’s previous “shackles” remark? After all, shackles do indeed invoke the imagery of slavery much more than mere chains do. But hey, there were a lot of blacks in the room when Biden made his comment, and so we all know what THAT means, right?!
Think past your nose, people!
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Question, if you are “legitimately” raped and get pregnant in spite of these secret secretions women have preventing pregnancy, can that raped woman go on public support during the pregnancy & delivery, considering it’s not her fault? Or is that more government dependence?
If republicans are willing to pass The Santity of Life Act, would they consider the Rape Support Act paying expenses for all women “legitimately” raped? This to help close the loophole of using rape illegitimately as an excuse for abortion. -
Quote from Lux
On the contrary, his entire political career has focused on helping the poor, elderly, infirm, and disadvantaged.
Lol, I guess in the time he didn’t need to push bills on behalf of his corporate owners at MBNA was spent to help the huddled masses.
Any claim that his remark was a racial slur is either from the media (simply to report the facts of the day or to deliberately incite the audience) or from closet racists who view EVERYTHING through the bigot filter.
Nah, that wasn’t racist, just another example of Biden dumbassery.
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[i]Question, if you are “legitimately” raped and get pregnant in spite of these secret secretions women have preventing pregnancy, can that raped woman go on public support during the pregnancy & delivery, considering it’s not her fault? Or is that more government dependence?[/i]
Fromious, you know the answer. No good conservative would want a dime of government money being used to help the children born of such pregnancies resulting from rape. That would be socialism after all.
The true Conservatives like Paul Ryan believe that women raped must be forced to carry the baby to term, and they also fervently believe that no government financial help should be given to such mothers or their children.
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Lux. You can’t be that clueless and ignorant. No one is calling Biden
a racist. The problem people have is that Biden used a disgusting tactic
(slave imagery) to get votes. “they gonna put y’all back in chains” was the quote.
To say he was talking about banks is BS. They (republicans) gonna put y’all (blacks)
back (you were in them before) in chains. To say that Ryan said the same is BS. Ryan specifically
spoke about banks and the financial industry being put in shackles. You not seeing the
difference is about as ignorant as it gets. Black people do have a right to
feel it is demeaning although you would prefer they suck it up and ignore it.
Keep telling yourself that this was just an innocent, truthful comment. You may
start believing it.-
Ah SadRad, the “get out of jail free” card is the believe that if you are “legitimately” raped you cannot get pregnant. Ergo, if you are pregnant you arre “illegitimately” raped.
Will Akin & company tell that to Jaycee Lee Dugard?
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The right is trying to lock up crazy grandpa for saying out loud what they all believe. Hide the truth from the light of day lest the voters realize what an extremist party the GOP has become. I say be honest, let everyone know what republicans believe. Show us the brave new world.
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OMG!!! Akin is a member of the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology!
What’s next, a Constitutional Amendment declaring the Earth is 4,000 years old & Adam & Eve cavorted with dinosaurs & the Grand Canyon was formed in 1 week by Noah’s Worldwide Flood.
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The funny thing is, while he is of course an idiot and expressed it in the most clumsy and offensive manner, the odds of getting pregnant from rape are probably lower than the odds from consensual intercourse.
This has nothing to do with ‘juices’ and ‘shutting things down’, ‘special hormones’ or any of the other pseudo-scientific garbage that is preached in southern churches. It has more to do with legal definitions and the physiologic shortcoming of rapists.
– not all rapes include vaginal penetration (oral/anal or no penetration at all)
– of the ones that include vaginal penetration, not all end with the deposition of semen (according to AAFP, only 1/3 of rapes include deposition of biological material into ANY orifice).
– rape victims who seek medical attention are routinely offered access to post-exposure contraception.
So yes, pregnancy after rape is uncommon and not nearly as large of an issue as the pro-abortion interests want it to be. But as the controversy Akin kicked off shows, there is no rational discussion the moment rape and abortion are mentioned together.
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Interesting RVU, you uphold the republican position that pregnant women are lying since all they had to do was to buy an easily available and cheap contraceptive? But like Sandra Fink, they are too cheap & lazy?
fw, even at 5% pregnancy rate there are still many pregnancies estimated to result from rape. Unless you also think the women are lying.
ww.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8765248
The national rape-related pregnancy rate is 5.0% per rape among victims of reproductive age (aged 12 to 45); among adult women an estimated 32,101 pregnancies result from rape each year. Among 34 cases of rape-related pregnancy, the majority occurred among adolescents and resulted from assault by a known, often related perpetrator. Only 11.7% of these victims received immediate medical attention after the assault, and 47.1% received no medical attention related to the rape. A total 32.4% of these victims did not discover they were pregnant until they had already entered the second trimester; 32.2% opted to keep the infant whereas 50% underwent abortion and 5.9% placed the infant for adoption; an additional 11.8% had spontaneous abortion.
[h4]CONCLUSIONS:[/h4] Rape-related pregnancy occurs with significant frequency. It is a cause of many unwanted pregnancies and is closely linked with family and domestic violence. As we address the epidemic of unintended pregnancies in the United States, greater attention and effort should be aimed at preventing and identifying unwanted pregnancies that result from sexual victimization.Of course the writers must also be lying.
And there’s still the problem of Jaycee Lee Dugard. Or was she also lying?
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Looks like Congressman Steven King also never heard of a girl or woman getting pregnant due to rape.
Stanger than fiction You just can’t make this up.
[link=http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/08/steve-king-statutory-rape.php]http://2012.talkingpoints…ing-statutory-rape.php[/link]
Rep. Todd Akin appeared to be on his own in the controversy over his abortion and rape comments, but fellow Congressman Steve King has also put his foot in it [link=http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/08/steve-king-statutory-rape.php?ref=fpnewsfeed]after saying he’s never heard of a woman getting pregnant because of statutory rape[/link] or incest. Like Akin, Iowa’s King supported a House bill in 2011 that would have banned federal funding for abortion and [link=http://www.npr.org/2012/08/20/159392690/examining-the-truth-about-rape-and-pregnancy]would not have included an exemption[/link] for just those sorts of cases. In an interview on Monday, he suggested such an exemption wouldn’t be necessary because he’s never heard of such a thing happening. “Well I just havent heard of that being a circumstance thats been brought to me in any personal way, King [link=http://www.kmeg14.com/story/19324372/rep-steve-king-on-the-campaign-trail]told KMEG-TV[/link] Monday, and Id be open to discussion about that subject matter.
Obviously there are [link=http://thestir.cafemom.com/pregnancy/107594]countless[/link] [link=http://articles.ky3.com/2012-08-07/illegal-immigrant_33087615]documented[/link] [link=http://www.franklincountytimes.com/2012/08/18/city-man-charged-with-statutory-rape/]instances[/link] of that happening, had King ever [link=http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-victims]bothered to look[/link]. In fact, according to some reports, at least half of [link=http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/ad-campaign-addresses-statutory-rape-and-teen-pregnancy-rs5on7p-158701085.html]teenage pregnancies[/link] are [link=http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/2903097.html]caused by adult men[/link]. Still, King defended Akin saying he’s “a strong Christian man” that everyone should look his voting record and “what did he stand for?” Good point. Maybe people should take a closer look at what Steve King stands for, too.
Even Kathleen Parker wonders WTF!? Republicans are talking like the Taliban!
[link=http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/kathleen-parker-the-republican-need-for-a-lesson-on-the-fairer-sex/2012/08/21/56d7d004-ebbf-11e1-9ddc-340d5efb1e9c_story.html]http://www.washingtonpost…40d5efb1e9c_story.html[/link]
Some days Mitt Romney must wonder how he got involved with this crew. Here hes trying to talk about jobs, jobs, jobs and his political colleagues keep changing the subject to a topic about which an alarming few seem to know anything at all: women.
More legitimate rape; fewer unwanted children. It has a certain Talibanesque ring to it.
And of course, Maureen Dowd just to get your panties further in a knot:
[link=http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/22/opinion/dowd-just-think-no.html]http://www.nytimes.com/20…owd-just-think-no.html[/link]
Paul Ryan, who teamed up with Akin in the House to sponsor harsh anti-abortion bills, may look young and hip and new generation, with his iPod full of heavy metal jams and his cute kids. But hes just a fresh face on a Taliban creed the evermore antediluvian, anti-women, anti-immigrant, anti-gay conservative core.
Paul Ryan, who teamed up with Akin in the House to sponsor harsh anti-abortion bills, may look young and hip and new generation, with his iPod full of heavy metal jams and his cute kids. But hes just a fresh face on a Taliban creed the evermore antediluvian, anti-women, anti-immigrant, anti-gay conservative core. -
And on to what I like about this story — the politics:
[link=http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/08/why-a-defiant-todd-akin-could-cost-republicans-control-of-senate/]http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/08/why-a-defiant-todd-akin-could-cost-republicans-control-of-senate/[/link]
[b]Why a Defiant Todd Akin Could Cost Republicans Control of Senate[/b]
The importance of this Senate seat to the GOPs chances of taking control of the Senate cannot be underestimated. It is not impossible for Republicans to pick up the four seats (three, if Romney wins the White House) needed for a majority without Missouri. But it will be a long, hard slog.
Before the Akin eruption Monday, incumbent Sen. Claire McCaskill, D-Mo., was considered the most vulnerable Democratic senator in the country. Recent polling showed her trailing Akin by 5 points, 45 to 49 percent.
If McCaskill wins, Republicans would need to win four of the five most vulnerable Democratic-held seats Nebraska, North Dakota, Wisconsin, Virginia and Montana while not losing any of their own vulnerable seats, such as Massachusetts, Maine, Nevada or Indiana. At this point, Republicans are favored to win Nebraska while Democrats have the edge in Maine. -
Quote from Frumious
fw, even at 5% pregnancy rate there are still many pregnancies estimated to result from rape. Unless you also think the women are lying.
ww.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8765248
It helps if you actually cite an article rather than providing a dead link and cherry picked quotes.
Yes, that 5% number is frequently quoted, omitting the 1% found in other studies, probably because 1% is far less impressive. Either way, 32k involuntary pregnancies in a country of 314mil that has about 6.7million pregnancies per year is a small number. If you only look at abortions, 14k of 1.2mil is also a small number. So yes, abortion as result of involuntary pregnancy related to rape is rare and is in no way the major issue it is made out to be by abortion proponents.
Of course, that does not negate the absolute right of a woman who was raped to seek emergency contraception or abortion services. That is a question of an individual right, not population statistics.
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I see why dead, missing 1st ‘w’ of http://www.ncbi...
[link=http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=pregnancies%20due%20to%20rape&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CGEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov%2Fpubmed%2F8765248&ei=otQ0UK_aDK-H0QH4qoFw&usg=AFQjCNG88GSakvLGkNqVVBjPzrnHYCsJEQ]Rape-related pregnancy: estimates and descriptive characteristics …[/link]
[link=http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8765248]www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8765248[/link]
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Quote from Ben Casey
Lux. You can’t be that clueless and ignorant. No one is calling Biden
a racist. The problem people have is that Biden used a disgusting tactic
(slave imagery) to get votes. “they gonna put y’all back in chains” was the quote.
To say he was talking about banks is BS. They (republicans) gonna put y’all (blacks)
back (you were in them before) in chains. To say that Ryan said the same is BS. Ryan specifically
spoke about banks and the financial industry being put in shackles. You not seeing the
difference is about as ignorant as it gets. Black people do have a right to
feel it is demeaning although you would prefer they suck it up and ignore it.
Keep telling yourself that this was just an innocent, truthful comment. You may
start believing it.You’re certainly entitled to your own interpretation, even if it is based on your isolation of that sound bite which you’ve taken totally out of context.
But when you actually read what he was saying, you’ll see he clearly was referring to Ryan’s prior statements about how the Democrats’ regulatory policies have put the banks in “shackles”. His comment was referring to how Ryan’s policy would deregulate banks (remove the shackles) and, instead, put the PEOPLE in [u]shackles[/u] by being beholden to the unregulated banks (paraphrased as “chains” which is actually LESS of a slavery reference than “shackles”). The point is that most Democrats believe this economy crashed because banks were free to dole out a massive amount of loans and credit to anyone who wanted it, with little regard to whether those people would actually pay it off. Ergo “shackles” and “chains”.
No way you’ll get away twisting those words. Clumsy words perhaps; implying that we’d all be slaves to the BANKS, but it most def was not a reference to black slavery in America. I believe that only people with residual racial tendencies and/or upbringing would interpret his comment the way you are.
Again, we’re all entitled to our opinion.
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Quote from Ben Casey
Black people do have a right to feel it is demeaning although you would prefer they suck it up and ignore it. Keep telling yourself that this was just an innocent, truthful comment. You may start believing it.
You talk about “black people” being offended, but the ONLY people I see complaining in any significant quantity are [b]white Republicans[/b].
That screams volumes about the real agenda behind this frothed-up “controversy”.
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This election is not about abortion! This election is about jobs and the economy…..and the OBAMA economy SUCKS!
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Quote from HoosierMD
This election is not about abortion! This election is about jobs and the economy…..and the OBAMA economy SUCKS!
Why not ? The best thing this whole Akin issue is doing is to shine a light on the moronic beliefs many in the GOP (including Ryan) subscribe to. They are right, it is a big decision and we are at a crossroads, but that extends beyond the economy and taxes into social issues. Put the information out there, let the voters decide.
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There are some people for whom social issues, equality & justice, environmental concerns trump short term economics.
One of the main reasons I won’t be voting republican is because we are just 1 Romney Supreme Court appointment + 1 Roberts “make-up call” to the right away from having crazy crap like this become the law of the land.
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I understand that the majority of Aunt Minnie conservatives are of the “fiscal conservative” bent and actually tend to lean more libertarian on social issues. They find this abortion talk unpalattable. I figure they view the republican bond with the religious right as a necessary evil required to maintain a winning electoral coalition in an age of demographic shifts against them.
Trial lawyers hold sway over democratic party policies and influence, but that doesn’t make pro-trial lawyer. -
Quote from fw
Quote from HoosierMD
This election is not about abortion! This election is about jobs and the economy…..and the OBAMA economy SUCKS!
Why not ? The best thing this whole Akin issue is doing is to shine a light on the moronic beliefs many in the GOP (including Ryan) subscribe to. They are right, it is a big decision and we are at a crossroads, but that extends beyond the economy and taxes into social issues. Put the information out there, let the voters decide.
Come to think about it, you’re absolutely right. Why elect a party on the basis of the only topic they want to talk about (economy) when they’ve shown such bad judgement on so many other issues (gays, marriage, healthcare, “life”, science, education, as well as the infirm, elderly, and poor?
A united country like the USA should use every bit of scrutiny possible before electing the party who’s mantra is[i] “selfish is good, every man for himself, survival of the fittest, catch up to the fastest ship or be left behind”.[/i]
EVERY topic should be on the table for discussion. Do not let either party stomp you down with initimidating remarks like [i]”but THAT’s not what’s important in this election”! [/i]
[u]EVERY[/u] issue discloses critical thinking skills and moral judgement. Sometimes the LEAST important issue discloses the MOST important trait about a person. Just look at how Dukakis got nuked by Willy Horton.
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Quote from Lux
Quote from fw
Quote from HoosierMD
This election is not about abortion! This election is about jobs and the economy…..and the OBAMA economy SUCKS!
Why not ? The best thing this whole Akin issue is doing is to shine a light on the moronic beliefs many in the GOP (including Ryan) subscribe to. They are right, it is a big decision and we are at a crossroads, but that extends beyond the economy and taxes into social issues. Put the information out there, let the voters decide.
Come to think about it, you’re absolutely right. Why elect a party on the basis of the only topic they want to talk about (economy) when they’ve shown such bad judgement on so many other issues (gays, marriage, healthcare, “life”, science, education, as well as the infirm, elderly, and poor?
A united country like the USA should use every bit of scrutiny possible before electing the party who’s mantra is[i] “selfish is good, every man for himself, survival of the fittest, catch up to the fastest ship or be left behind”.[/i]
EVERY topic should be on the table for discussion. Do not let either party stomp you down with initimidating remarks like [i]”but THAT’s not what’s important in this election”! [/i]
[u]EVERY[/u] issue discloses critical thinking skills and moral judgement. Sometimes the LEAST important issue discloses the MOST important trait about a person. Just look at how Dukakis got nuked by Willy Horton.
Let’s see.. Romney gave millions to charity last year and Biden gave $300. Democrats/Liberals are very generous……with other peoples money! How much did you give to charity last year? Just curious?
And speaking of Supreme Court decisions……one more vote could have invalidated the individual mandate in Obamacare! I don’t know about you, but I’m not ready to have a 15 member unelected panel have the final say on all health care decisions! -
Quote from HoosierMD
Let’s see.. Romney gave millions to charity last year and Biden gave $300. Democrats/Liberals are very generous……with other peoples money! How much did you give to charity last year? Just curious?
And speaking of Supreme Court decisions……one more vote could have invalidated the individual mandate in Obamacare! I don’t know about you, but I’m not ready to have a 15 member unelected panel have the final say on all health care decisions!
Interesting (and completely tangential) post. Not sure how any of that applies to abortion politics……
….except to cement my earlier commen that the republicans on this board want nothing to do with the red meat issues for social conservatives and want to keep it fiscal.
(ps — I gave just shy of 2% of my salary last year….could be more for sure)
((pps – I supported the individual mandate….actually wish the penalty was stronger….it was one of the few things that I did like about the ACA)) -
Quote from HoosierMD
Let’s see.. Romney gave millions to charity last year and Biden gave $300. Democrats/Liberals are very generous……with other peoples money! How much did you give to charity last year? Just curious?
And speaking of Supreme Court decisions……one more vote could have invalidated the individual mandate in Obamacare! I don’t know about you, but I’m not ready to have a 15 member unelected panel have the final say on all health care decisions!
OK, vote for Romney because of the character demonstrated by charitable donations.
It doesn’t matter how much I tell you I donated to charity because you have no way of verifying it.
I’d MUCH prefer a federally appointed panel determine health policy than to allow money-hungry, shareholder-serving, greedy bastids in the private sector make those decisions for needy Americans who are on limited means. Are you even serious about that?! -
Ryan Flips on “Rape” stance:
Despite co-sponsoring legislation with Akin to place language of “forcible rape” into bills attempting to limit federal funding for abortion in rape victims.
=Paul Ryan]
“Rape is rape. Rape is rape, period. End of story.”
“Rape is rape and there’s no splitting hairs over rape,”
And with Akin holding tight and refusing to bow out of the race, the democrats have to smiling broadly that the republican party is having to re-fight the “war on women” charges. Every day this goes on is a good one for dems and Obama. -
Democrats have come unhinged on this Aiken guy. It is clear anyone with an ounce of brains that this guy does not represent the GOP viewpoint. He’s been condemned and ridiculed by every Republican and Conservative of any stature, including the Republican presidential candidate Romney. Believe it or not, there are Republicans on both sides of many social issues, including the abortion issue. Trying to paint the whole Republican party with the broad brush of insensitive idiot in the party is akin to lumping all Democrats as racists, because of Biden’s race-baiting comments, or calling all Democrats sexual predators or pedophiles because of New York Congressman Anthony Weiner was sending pornographic images to a minor.
This is clearly a chance for Democrats to take a few free shots at Republicans and to deflect away from their problems.
The big issue of the day is the jobless economy and Obama’s failed policies. If people cannot get their heads out of the uterus and into the substantiative issues of the day, then we as a country are in real trouble. I smell a dead horse. Time to move on. -
Whistle past the graveyard, Alda, but Akin is exactly the republican position & Ryan is joined at the hip. It’s Romney who is the closet moderate but has to stay in the closet. But it’s not only Romney who is the pretend candidate, the whole GOP is throwing Akin under the bus in a pretend gesture. In reality the GOP is the extremist party pretending to live in reality.
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OK, then. Democrats are the misogynistic party. Let’s see:
Anthony Weiner – Pervert. Alligator tears.
Bill Clinton: Accused rapist. Keynote speaker at DNC.
Al Gore: Masseuse groper. Idiot!
John Edwards: Abandons cancer-stiken wife.
Ted Kennedy: DUI murderer abandons drowned date.
[b]Democrats obviously hate women![/b]. Watch them closely. Don’t let the head fakes and pontificating fool you. -
Quote from aldadoc
OK, then. Democrats are the misogynistic party. Let’s see:
Anthony Weiner – Pervert. Alligator tears.
Bill Clinton: Accused rapist. Keynote speaker at DNC.
Al Gore: Masseuse groper. Idiot!
John Edwards: Abandons cancer-stiken wife.
Ted Kennedy: DUI murderer abandons drowned date.[b]Democrats obviously hate women![/b]. Watch them closely. Don’t let the head fakes and pontificating fool you.
And yet, thanks to women voters, a Democrat was most recently elected POTUS and Democrats control the Senate. Can you believe that? lol
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Lux – [i]”And yet, thanks to women voters, a Democrat was most recently elected POTUS and Democrats control the Senate. Can you believe that? lol “[/i]
Fool me once …
Women are figuring out that they are being manipulated by the Democrats. Once they fully catch on … look out!
Which party treats women better, the family-oriented Republicans or the misogynist Democrats. Good luck selling the Weenie-Weiner, Fast-Edwards, DUI-Teddy or Groping-Gore party to women.
Jobs and economic security matter to women as much as to men. The choice will come down to jobs v. free contraception. I’m betting they choose jobs. -
Hi aldi
let me just remind you of my ex boss who did not pay his workers (both male and female) well he got his little letter and pin from GOP thanking him for his donation and yet he would trash the US to me as this country is going down inspite of him being allowed to treat workers as slaves and not returning to his own mid east country.
Imagine that…go figgerQuote from aldadoc
Lux – [i]”And yet, thanks to women voters, a Democrat was most recently elected POTUS and Democrats control the Senate. Can you believe that? lol “[/i]
Fool me once …
Women are figuring out that they are being manipulated by the Democrats. Once they fully catch on … look out!
Which party treats women better, the family-oriented Republicans or the misogynist Democrats. Good luck selling the Weenie-Weiner, Fast-Edwards, DUI-Teddy or Groping-Gore party to women.
Jobs and economic security matter to women as much as to men. The choice will come down to jobs v. free contraception. I’m betting they choose jobs.
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What is disturbing for me on this issue is the profound ignorance & manufactured rationalization AND the profound mistrust of women who obviously lie and have irresponsible sex & instead of using cheap birth control as any responsible loose and immoral woman should do, have abortions instead. Sounds like the writer of Genesis blaming it all on “that woman!” or modern Taliban types who demand women dress modestly lest the men will be driven uncontrollably insane with lust. And you know where that leads when she was asking for it. I know I, as a man, am not responsible when my lust is uncontrollably released.
“Legitimate” rape because, as Ryan said, the loopholes were big enough you could drive a Mack truck though them. Women lie! And they lie about being raped for many reasons, abortions, divorce. They are just not trustworthy, we poor men are the victims.
Oh yeah, I’m opposed to “legitimate” rape. I really, really, really feel bad for victims of “legitimate” rape. But how do you know it was “legitimate?” I really worry about the poor victims of “illegitimate” rape and it’s not those lying women.
And then there’s the rationalization over numbers. 5% is a very low number already but it’s really 1%. I mean, let’s make it real here! That’s “only” 32,000 “unwanted” pregnancies due to rape – of the legitimate kind that is.
What? “Only?” Good to know the unwanted results are so low & bordering inconsequential. I mean with this arsenal of emotional hysteria over “legitimate” rape helped by these “secret secretions” preventing pregnancy, women should just concentrate & they could prevent pregnancy. We could even forget about contraception if only they would concentrate. Like Kegels, just practice.
Women are such a mystery. Aren’t they. And tricky. -
Quote from Frumious
And then there’s the rationalization over numbers. 5% is a very low number already but it’s really 1%. I mean, let’s make it real here! That’s “only” 32,000 “unwanted” pregnancies due to rape – of the legitimate kind that is.
Btw. the 32k number you quote as ‘fact’ is the result of extrapolating the results of a small retrospective survey from the early 90s onto the entire population. This is not a number actually recorded based on abortion data (which the abortion industry is very careful to keep under wraps). -
Honestly, I don’t know how “fact” it is or not or what “industry” is involved in making up the numbers. The arguments about the numbers do not come from the left but from the right, as in the numbers affected are small, as in “only” 5%, or in that’s an exaggeration because they are really 1%. But what are the real numbers? 32k? if 32k is the 1% of rapes that result in pregnancy? Or is it more? I’d bet more considering the shame of rape especially if done “in the family.” Plus the language used is a concern, all the euphemisms. “Unwanted pregnancies” resulting from “legitimate” rape. Are there any, even 1 “wanted” pregnancy from “legitimate” rape?
Word games. Number games. Games.
Truth is, if these wanted or “unwanted” pregnancies resulting from “legitimate” rape are so small, so inconsequential, then what’s the big deal anyway? Then make the exception for rape and incest for the anti-abortion platform. Except the right really does not think it inconsequential.
OK, so how about an honest discussion for a change. I respect Akin’s statement about not “blaming” the embryo for the rape but it’s the other rationalizations that taste & smell bad. I say don’t “blame” the woman either & don’t hang her with the consequences of having to bear a child resulting from a rape on her own. Provide some public support, emotional and otherwise including medical.
But all the language about justifying the platform say otherwise. They say a lot about primitive religious attitudes, especially about women from the right. -
Quote from aldadoc
Women are figuring out that they are being manipulated by the Democrats. Once they fully catch on … look out!
Do you have ANY facts at all to back up that claim?
I’ve seen no research stats to support such a trend.
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I dont live in the US, so dont really care about the election, but this nonsense even made the news here in Canada. I think I would have dismissed this out-of-hand several years ago, but something Frum said about unreported rapes rang true.
Im not sure whether its because Im getting older and am mentoring more colleagues, or just because I old and unthreatening, but over the past few years Ive had two very successful, bright, professional women confide in me that they were legitimately raped while in senior high or university. Neither reported the rape because of shame and the feeling they wouldnt be believed. Neither had told another soul until me (isnt it great to get old??) I also had a colleague tell me she was near-raped at a conference and had been having trouble sleeping because she would have had a high risk of pregnancy if it had actually happened, and worried about what she would tell her husband (hes fixed) and what she would actually do with the fetus. She as well hadnt reported it because she felt stupid for having gone to a vendors room alone for an Advil after a group were at a bar. She managed to bolt to the door after some groping.
Im not a psychologist, so I really dont know how often things like this happen, but being the father of three daughters makes me feel rather uneasy. At least Im far lest flippant now.
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Quote from walshnuc
Im not a psychologist, so I really dont know how often things like this happen, but being the father of three daughters makes me feel rather uneasy. At least Im far lest flippant now.
Tell your daughters to
– not attend college away from home,
– not drink,
– stay away from the fraternity and party scene,
– stay away from house parties,
– not get involved with drug addicts and wife-beaters.
It’ll cut down the risk by about 85%.
Make sure your conversations are graphic, don’t tiptoe around the real issues. I had that conversation with a 14 year old niece the other day who came to spend the summer with us and went to visit some other friends for a couple of days during the stay. It is better to offend some sensibilities than to be sorry afterwards.
I know you are not allowed to say this, but personal choices and behavior go a long way to control the risk of being the victim of sexual violence. They can go jogging in unlit parking garages wearing skimpy outfits all night, the odds of something happening there are very very small relative to tagging along to a party with some older cousins or friends.
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Our favourite saying when they go out is “Don’t stray from the herd”.
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Quote from walshnuc
Our favourite saying when they go out is “Don’t stray from the herd”.
The problem with th college crowd is that the threat comes from within the herd.
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Quote from fw
Quote from walshnuc
Our favourite saying when they go out is “Don’t stray from the herd”.
The problem with th college crowd is that the threat comes from within the herd.
Who is the herd? Frankly I have a strong disagreement thinking myself as part of any “herd.” Herds are never bright. Herds run off cliffs. Cooperative groups usually do not. You can’t lock everyone up for their own safety. Maybe the problem is our tolerance for the ignorant beliefs of others, especially those in authority. Like Akin or Ryan.
Rape comes in many forms. It isn’t just at college parties or hotel rooms. It doesn’t just happen to “loose” women.
How is this for shocking? This make Milgram’s experiments look amateurish. I had never heard of these hoaxes from crank calls before. Now there’s a movie based on it called, “Compliance.” It’s what you do when you suspend your morality to someone else’s control because they are an “authority.” These crank calls had people obeying in several States over a period of time. Unbelievable. Until you see it really happens.
Akin’s statement still holds true, no one got pregnant in the course of these hoaxes.
[link=http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051009/NEWS01/510090392]http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051009/NEWS01/510090392&nclick_check=1[/link] -
Quote from Frumious
Who is the herd? Frankly I have a strong disagreement thinking myself as part of any “herd.” Herds are never bright. Herds run off cliffs. Cooperative groups usually do not.
Having lived in a college town for a while, I have decided that modern college students are a subhumanoid life form. The behaviors are easiest to understand with a background of animal production psychology.
You can’t lock everyone up for their own safety.
You can also go windsurfing in a thunderstorm, nobody is going to hold you back. The fact remains, ones own choices contribute or detract from the risk of drowning in the bay or becoming the victim of a crime.Rape comes in many forms. It isn’t just at college parties or hotel rooms. It doesn’t just happen to “loose” women.
And I never said that.
The reality is that in 1/2 of rapes, the victim had consumed alcohol. Consuming alcohol impairs ones judgement. Consuming alcohol is a choice.Then there is a good percentage of rapes that happen as part of abusive relationships. You dont have to be in a abusive relationship.
[link=http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051009/NEWS01/510090392]http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051009/NEWS01/510090392&nclick_check=1[/link]
I fail to see relevance to the discussion here. It proves that McDonalds hires idiots, not much more. -
[link=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2012/08/25/mccaskill-leads-akin-in-missouri-senate-race-new-poll-shows/]http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2012/08/25/mccaskill-leads-akin-in-missouri-senate-race-new-poll-shows/[/link]
That’s a 15 point gaff, Mr. Akin……..a new record! -
No, you didn’t say “loose” women. While I don’t agree with many, maybe most of your viewpoints, I wasn’t directing every statement against you. Or walshnuc. But “herd” is definitely one I would never agree with.make good decisions and even failure is a learning experience.
But I do strongly disagree with your arguments of “only” 5% or 1%. If you believe rape is not a reason for abortion whether it’s “God’s Plan” or “punishing” the embryo, if you believe that is a “loophole large enough to drive a Mack truck through” then the issue of how large or small the “pregnancy by rape” population is moot and irrelevant, isn’t it?
Then there are other rationalizations all about denigrating women, they are too stupid, lazy & cheap to use cheap birth control. Or “sluts” anyway as Limbaugh said. Women “lie” for many reasons as was also said by those who support Akin’s views.
As for drinking alcohol, i drink every day. Haven’t raped anyone, ever. Being drunk is not an excuse to get raped or to rape. It’s irrelevant.
They are still word games hiding a hostility to women’s ability to make their own decisions.
As for McDonald’s maybe you should read Stanley Milgram’s work about blind obedience to authority. His subjects were not merely “idiot” McDonald’s employees. I’d bet one could easily find “idiots’ among the highly educated. What is Akin’s education? Or Ryan’s, that justifies their backwards views about women? The list is almost endless. -
Quote from Frumious
No, you didn’t say “loose” women.
You quoted me, I figured you were talking to me.
But I do strongly disagree with your arguments of “only” 5% or 1%.
Those are the data, as thin as the data situation is in this case.
If you believe rape is not a reason for abortion whether it’s “God’s Plan” or “punishing” the embryo, if you believe that is a “loophole large enough to drive a Mack truck through” then the issue of how large or small the “pregnancy by rape” population is moot and irrelevant, isn’t it?
It is A issue. In the overall picture of the abortion industry it is a minor issue.As for drinking alcohol, i drink every day. Haven’t raped anyone, ever. Being drunk is not an excuse to get raped or to rape. It’s irrelevant.
If you drink every day you have a problem. And of course it’s relevant, the data show that it is. I agree that it doesn’t really matter from a policy perspective, it does matter from an individual perspective. You dont want to get sunburnt during a day on the water, wear sunscreen. You dont want to wake up in the wrong place sunday at 3am, don’t drink saturday night. -
So in your world fw if I choose to go to the store at noon, and am hit by a stray bullet, it is my fault since I chose to be in the path of a stray bullet at that time?
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Quote from Thor
So in your world fw if I choose to go to the store at noon, and am hit by a stray bullet, it is my fault since I chose to be in the path of a stray bullet at that time?
No, but if you hang out in front of a bodega selling pot and you catch a bullet from a competitor, it’s your fault. -
How about you’re not selling pot, you’re just an asst DA out for lunch & go to the bodega & set shot in a drive by – you’re not the target just the mushroom.
Is it your fault for choosing to go to the bodega when you could have just eaten at the cafeteria?
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Quote from Frumious
How about you’re not selling pot, you’re just an asst DA out for lunch & go to the bodega & set shot in a drive by – you’re not the target just the mushroom.
Is it your fault for choosing to go to the bodega when you could have just eaten at the cafeteria?
3/4 of rape victims know their attacker. They are clearly the target of the crime, not collateral damage. Help me to understand the relevance of the irrelevant analogy you keep going on about. -
Quote from fw
3/4 of rape victims know their attacker. They are clearly the target of the crime, not collateral damage. Help me to understand the relevance of the irrelevant analogy you keep going on about.
Your arguments about the issue are interesting. The downplaying of the issue as numerically irrelevant due to occurrences being “only” 1%, not 5% or “only” 32,000. Statements that rapes occur due to excessive alcohol ingestion or parties or other irresponsible behaviors or that the raped know the attacker in most cases, or the “abortion industry” (interesting euphemism there), etc. But mostly the dismissal due to the argument that the number of pregnancies from rape are really so “small.”
What you really mean I suppose is that the number or cause of pregnancies due to rapes is irrelevant since you do not support that as a reason for abortion, period.
You could have simply said that. It would have been clear & to the point. -
Quote from Frumious
Quote from fw
3/4 of rape victims know their attacker. They are clearly the target of the crime, not collateral damage. Help me to understand the relevance of the irrelevant analogy you keep going on about.
Your arguments about the issue are interesting. The downplaying of the issue as numerically irrelevant due to occurrences being “only” 1%, not 5% or “only” 32,000.
Numerically it is not relevant on a national scale, to the individual it is certainly very relevant.
Statements that rapes occur due to excessive alcohol ingestion
Never said that. Stop making stuff up.
or that the raped know the attacker in most cases,
This was in response to some analogy that equaled rape with being a random bystander in an unrelated crime.
or the “abortion industry” (interesting euphemism there),
It sure is a euphemism. Words like ‘racket’, ‘cartel’ or ‘mafia’ would seem more appropriate.
But mostly the dismissal due to the argument that the number of pregnancies from rape are really so “small.”
I am sorry you disagree with the facts.
What you really mean I suppose is that the number or cause of pregnancies due to rapes is irrelevant since you do not support that as a reason for abortion, period.
Ah, no. I don’t mean that. -
Fw I really feel that you are a throw back to the caveman. I think the concept of somehow women being responsible for rape was well established as nonsense decades ago. I don’t care if they are drunk, nude, partying hardy, if they say no that is all that is needed. I blame the other side that is also probably drunk for not stopping. I fully realize that there is considerable ex facto “rape” where both parties were drunk and there was no consent or lack of consent. Neither side said yes or no, but the girl later says that she didn’t want to have sex. Those cases are lamost never adjudicated because of the legal questions, but if she clearly says stop then you stop. I also feel that if you are hanging out at a pot bodega doesn’t mean that it is your fault if smoeone shhots you. The shooter is still the responsible party. It is one thing to defend yourself and quite another to shoot somebody for any other reason.
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Quote from Raddocmed
I think the concept of somehow women being responsible for rape was well established as nonsense decades ago.
Where did I say that women are responsible for being raped ?
Women choose to put themselves in vulnerable positions. Women who choose not to put themselves into those types of situations tend to fare better. I am all ‘pro-choice’ here 🙂 .
I fully realize that there is considerable ex facto “rape” where both parties were drunk and there was no consent or lack of consent. Neither side said yes or no, but the girl later says that she didn’t want to have sex.
Oh, so you DO realize that that happens. Now would that be a ‘legitimate’ rape or just a disagreement after the fact ?
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Thank U Rad
FYall Info: 17 states have legalized medical cannabis laws and given the shootings in Colorado and in NY , I think the shooting comment is really in poor taste.
The laws clearly state what is covered and that cannabis use inspite of medicinal purposes can still warrent firing by employer if the employer wants.Quote from Raddocmed
Fw I really feel that you are a throw back to the caveman. I think the concept of somehow women being responsible for rape was well established as nonsense decades ago. I don’t care if they are drunk, nude, partying hardy, if they say no that is all that is needed. I blame the other side that is also probably drunk for not stopping. I fully realize that there is considerable ex facto “rape” where both parties were drunk and there was no consent or lack of consent. Neither side said yes or no, but the girl later says that she didn’t want to have sex. Those cases are lamost never adjudicated because of the legal questions, but if she clearly says stop then you stop. I also feel that if you are hanging out at a pot bodega doesn’t mean that it is your fault if smoeone shhots you. The shooter is still the responsible party. It is one thing to defend yourself and quite another to shoot somebody for any other reason.
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Quote from fw
But mostly the dismissal due to the argument that the number of pregnancies from rape are really so “small.”
I am sorry you disagree with the facts.
What you really mean I suppose is that the number or cause of pregnancies due to rapes is irrelevant since you do not support that as a reason for abortion, period.
Ah, no. I don’t mean that.
I don’t want to get tangled up in your little tussle with Frumious, but let’s not forget that plenty of psychologists and clinicians contend that the “facts” quoted as research statistics regarding the pregnancy rate due to rape is disastrously distorted by the overwhelming number of other abortions that are performed after rapes that go unreported because of the woman’s concern about humiliation, legal proceedings, disturbing publicity, implications on reputation, impact on income, family concerns, etc., etc.
Let’s be sure we don’t address this issue too simplistically. Unless there are facts that can prove the above professional contention to be baseless (i.e, unreporteds), I think the rationale behind that contention is credible and deserves some slack.
In fact, one could argue that the pregnancy rate is irrelevant. Laws should be enacted because they make sense in a society where all its people are treated as equals. What does the pregnancy rate have to do with whether or not abortion, as a stand-alone issue, should be illegalized? -
Quote from Lux
In fact, one could argue that the pregnancy rate is irrelevant. Laws should be enacted because they make sense in a society where all its people are treated as equals. What does the pregnancy rate have to do with whether or not abortion, as a stand-alone issue, should be illegalized?
And I have repeatedly said exactly that. For the woman as individual, rates, percentages and total numbers are irrelevant. You got raped, you got pregnant, you have the absolute right to end that pregnancy.
My point is that rape related pregnancy is used as a big issue by the pro-abortion movement to fight any restriction on their trade when relative to the large number of completely elective abortions, the number of rape related abortions is very small. -
I will admit that I am prechoice (not the same as proabortion). I was in peds and had to council numerous young girls who at 13, 14, or 15 found themselves pregnant. Once pregnant they have no good choices. You can pick what is the least bad for yourself. Some chose abortion, some adoption, and some kept baby. That is and should be their choice in my opinion. To be honest I have more respect for those that would allow no abortions or only to save life of mother. At least if you are going to say that a fetus is a human life and can’t be sacrificed then be consistant about that. I also feel that anybody that backs death penalty and is prolife is a hypocrite. Either life is sacred or it isn’t. You don’t get to pick and chose who’s life is sacred and whose isn’t.
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Quote from Raddocmed
At least if you are going to say that a fetus is a human life and can’t be sacrificed then be consistant about that. I also feel that anybody that backs death penalty and is prolife is a hypocrite. Either life is sacred or it isn’t. You don’t get to pick and chose who’s life is sacred and whose isn’t.
There’s only one problem: legally you simply cannot say [i]”a fetus is a human life”[/i] as a basis for abortion legislation because the standard legal definition of “life” is the state of an individual that was born and took at least one clinically unassisted breath of air outside the womb after cutting the cord. Any other definition falls outside the law and cannot be respected by Congress or anyone else, certainly not on religious grounds if you have any respect at all for the First Amendment. To change the legal definition of “life” will cause a catastrophic breakdown of many other laws related to how a living being can acquire and transfer rights, such as insurance, wills, custody, inheritance, Social Security, passports, tax obligations, any legal assets, etc. etc.
Ain’t gonna happen. -
Quote from Raddocmed
I also feel that anybody that backs death penalty and is prolife is a hypocrite. Either life is sacred or it isn’t. You don’t get to pick and chose who’s life is sacred and whose isn’t.
It’s allways fun to get conservatives flapping with that one. You can’t be for the death penalty and wars of aggression but against abortion.
I believe abortion before 21wks should not be an issue for the state to poke its nose into beyond ensuring that it is done with the same level of safety as any other comparable surgical procedure. -
Quote from fw
…the number of rape related abortions is very small.
Again, we do have any indication that it really is “very small” compared to the non-rape rate. And again, that statistic is irrelevant to the OP.
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Quote from Lux
Quote from fw
…the number of rape related abortions is very small.
Again, we do have any indication that it really is “very small” compared to the non-rape rate. And again, that statistic is irrelevant to the OP.
And we have no data to support that it is a big number either.
Dont think the OP commented on what is relevant or not to him. -
Quote from fw
And we have no data to support that it is a big number either.
In the absence of hard numbers, professional testimony from psychologists and clinicians whose patients are victims of unreported rape constitutes “data”. It certainly would qualify as “evidence” that a judge would allow in a court of law.
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Well……. Akin ain’t gonna get out now. Latest poll has him tied. I suppose that’s good news for Mr. Akin, not so good for other republicans who are porbably going to have to deal with abortion more fequently than they would like from here to November.
[link=http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021233309]http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021233309[/link]
unlikely to help nudge Todd Akin out of the Senate race:
PPP’s newest poll of the Missouri Senate race finds that Todd Akin is weathering the storm and the contest remains a tossup. Claire McCaskill leads 45-44, just a small change from our poll last week which found Akin ahead by a 44-43 margin.
A few key findings related to Akin’s candidacy:
-53% of voters say that they accept Akin’s apology for his comments last week to 40% who do not. For most Missourians Akin’s words weren’t a permanent deal-breaker. Although Democrats are not ready to forgive him, 77% of Republicans say they accept his apology to only 18% who do not.
-Only 37% of voters now say they think Akin should withdraw from the race to 54% who believe he should not. There’s a bipartisan consensus that he should stay in- 57% of independents, 53% of Democrats, and 52% of Republicans think he should continue running. There’s clearly a disconnect on Akin’s candidacy between GOP leaders in Washington DC and actual GOP voters back in Missouri.
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And Akin is back in the fold of the Republican party. Let’s not bicker and argue over who raped who…..
[link=http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57521465/todd-akin-receives-promises-of-more-campaign-cash-from-conservatives/]http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57521465/todd-akin-receives-promises-of-more-campaign-cash-from-conservatives/[/link]
After being shunned by most Republicans for his “legitimate” rape comments, support for the Republican candidate is starting to trickle in.
The Senate Conservatives Fund, a third party group started by conservative Sen. Jim DeMint, R-S.C., announced Thursday morning that it has pledged at least $290,000 for Akin’s quest to beat Democratic incumbent Sen. Claire McCaskill.
After surveying its members, the SCF told its supporters in an email, “We’ve heard you loud and clear so we’re going to endorse him today and provide a way for you to immediately swing into action.”
Although he doesn’t run SCF anymore, DeMint endorsed Akin Wednesday, along with former Republican presidential candidate Rick Santorum, whose PAC, Patriot Voices, will also provide monetary support. -
JEEZ – forget Rep/Dem
This guy is too dumb to have any say in anything other than his grocery list
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Which “too dumb,” DeMint & Co or Akin?
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What I’m seeing is…
(FACT:) …the Big Money is being pulled out of the national race, and that could indicate…
(CONJECTURE:) …the the money is losing confidence in Mitt’s ability to pull it off at this late date.
So the next option is to put money into more state races. I see it as a matter of triage, not a matter of the money suddenly having a political change of heart with Akin. I believe the Money just wants to help as many (influential) Republicans win as possible. Of course, the money first set out to support the first-tier candidates, like POTUS and the more electorate-rich senators and representatives. But now that Mitt doesn’t seem to be meeting the money’s expection, the money is cutting bait from Mitt while there’s still enough time for the money to make a difference in more state races with better odds than investing in Mitt.
There is an increasing number of reports of more funds flowing to the second tier races, including Akin, and might even trickle a little into Bachmann’s campaign. But the Money made a big bet on Mitt and there’s not a boatload left. Every dollar has to count at this point.
I mean, so much to-do about a paltry $290,000 to Akin?! It almost dwarfs those reports about HUNDREDS of [u]MILLIONS[/u] spent just to sway a handful of voters for the [i]national[/i] election. The money has now realized it can support TEN regional “Akin” races for only $2.9 million! That might be considered by some to be [u]SO[/u] much more effective use of funds than what a measly $2.9M could accomplish in Mitt’s national campaign coffers at this point. The big money is taking its eye off Mitt and is focusing more on Congress.
And there’s still plenty of time for state races to swing.
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Nice takedown for women’s issues of Australian Leader of the Opposition over sexism, mysoginy and double standards. Some in this country could use a good taking down over similar issues.
[link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ihd7ofrwQX0#!]http://www.youtube.com/wa…ed&v=ihd7ofrwQX0#![/link]
[link=http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/transcript-of-julia-gillards-speech-20121010-27c36.html#ixzz28x6LgdWR]http://www.smh.com.au/opi…c36.html#ixzz28x6LgdWR[/link] -
Now we know…rape resulting in pregnancy is a gift from God…How dare these women get upset.
Thank you Richard Mourdock for explaining the right wing view so concisely -
Yes indeed,
if a woman gets raped, it is God’s will according to the distinguished Republican gentleman from Indiana seeking election to the US Senate. -
Quote from SadRad
Yes indeed,
if a woman gets raped, it is God’s will according to the distinguished Republican gentleman from Indiana seeking election to the US Senate.
Isn’t it a great country ! You can say incredibly dumb stuff and voters can make up their mind and vote for you or the alternative. -
And right back in the news:
[link=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/02/celeste-greig-rape_n_2796875.html]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/02/celeste-greig-rape_n_2796875.html[/link]
The president of California’s oldest and largest GOP volunteer group took a wrong turn while trying to criticize GOP candidates’ missteps on women’s reproductive rights when she argued that pregnancies resulting from rape are rare “because the body is traumatized.”
Keep up the good work, “Conscience of the Republican Party”!
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And one can selectively prove all democrats are idiots by the quotes of a few:
“My fear is that [when 8,000 Marines are added to Guam] the whole island will become so overly populated that it will tip over and capsize.”–Rep Hank Johnson, democrat
“”We don’t need to be having something like sequestration that’s going to cause these job losses – ” over 170 million jobs that could be lost,” Rep. Maxine Waters, democrat
“Remember, we had a $5.6 trillion surplus in 2000 2001 from the Clinton administration”–Rep Shelia Jackson Lee, democrat
In Delaware, the largest growth of population is Indian Americans, moving from India. You cannot go to a 7/11 or a Dunkin’ Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent. I’m not joking.”–VP Joe Biden
“every month that we do not have an economic recovery package 500 million Americans lose their jobs.”–Nancy Pelosi
“”If you take out the killings, Washington actually has a very very low crime rate.” Marion Barry, ex-DC mayor -
Dergon:
Stupid comments cut both ways. Both, Democrats and Republicans are represented in this dilema, but the Democrats seem to be very well represented in the stupid quote department. Two can play this game, you know? Here are a few more:
And of course I want to express my gratitude to my family; to my mother and father who instilled in me the values that carried me this far. Anthony Weiner (D-NY)
Were the country that built the Intercontinental Railroad. President Barack Obama
Well the good news is our emissions are way down because of the recession. Claire McCaskill (D-MO).
“I’ve now been in 57 states — I think one left to go.”- Barack Obama
You cannot go to a 7-11 or a Dunkin Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent Im not joking. Joe Biden (D)
This is what James Carville thinks of Democrats:
[b][i]Ideologies arent all that important. Whats important is psychology.[/i][/b]
[b][i]The Democratic constituency is just like a herd of cows. All you have to do is lay out enough silage and they come running. Thats why I became an operative working with Democrats. With Democrats all you have to do is make a lot of noise, lay out the hay, and be ready to use the ole cattle prod in case a few want to bolt the herd.[/i][/b]
[b][i]Eighty percent of the people who call themselves Democrats dont have a clue as to political reality.[/i][/b]
[b][i]What amazes me is that you could take a group of people who are hard workers and convince them that they should support social programs that were the exact opposite of their own personal convictions. Put a little fear here and there and you can get people to vote any way you want.[/i][/b]
[b][i]The voter is basically dumb and lazy. The reason I became a Democratic operative instead of a Republican was because there were more Democrats that didnt have a clue than there were Republicans.[/i][/b]
[b][i]Truth is relative. Truth is what you can make the voter believe is the truth. If youre smart enough, truth is what you make the voter think it is. Thats why Im a Democrat. I can make the Democratic voters think whatever I want them to. [/i][/b]- James Carvfille D”
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Funny Alda, but they fall more in the area of gaffs while the Tea Party people were just stupid, although they only verbalized what many republicans apparently do believe. Even Ryan. So why believe it & deny at the same time?
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[link=http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/02/west-virginia-republican-says-rape-can-be-beautiful-if-it-produces-a-child/]http://www.rawstory.com/r…f-it-produces-a-child/[/link]
Ahh… GOP rape talk, how I have missed you
[b]
West Virginia Republican says rape can be beautiful if it produces a child[/b][/h1] -
Quote from Thor
Now we know…rape resulting in pregnancy is a gift from God…How dare these women get upset.
Thank you Richard Mourdock for explaining the right wing view so concisely
It’s called [i]foot-in-brain disease. [/i]
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Wow, unbelievable. I mean I was shocked that he would stay after the media and party crucifixion he received, but to be in a position to possibly win??…WOW.
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My feeling is that when they abandonded Akin the others thought taking the Senate was a lock. It now looks far from a sure bet. They would suuport a not just a dead dog but a dead hot dog.
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Quote from Frumious
Quote from fw
Quote from walshnuc
Our favourite saying when they go out is “Don’t stray from the herd”.
The problem with th college crowd is that the threat comes from within the herd.
Who is the herd? Frankly I have a strong disagreement thinking myself as part of any “herd.” Herds are never bright. Herds run off cliffs. Cooperative groups usually do not. You can’t lock everyone up for their own safety.
Then you probably wouldnt like me calling them (when I was coaching girls softball and driving them all to games) a gaggle of gigglers. Its a wonder I have any hearing left. Honestly, the things that offend some people. -
“Girls” is a term of familiarity that I am very careful using unless I know the women very well & the context is appropriate. “Girls” softball is in similar category of “boys” baseball however.
Likewise, “herd” has different contexts between us. Admittedly my context for herd is negative. Sorry if I overstated. -
Quote from Frumious
“Girls” is a term of familiarity that I am very careful using unless I know the women very well & the context is appropriate. “Girls” softball is in similar category of “boys” baseball however.
Likewise, “herd” has different contexts between us. Admittedly my context for herd is negative. Sorry if I overstated.
No problem Frum. They played in a “Minor Girls Softball League”, but I always referred to them as “Ladies” when I was addressing the whole team.
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make sure your friends won’t leave you an d call a call for all to leave TOGETHER
Quote from walshnuc
Our favourite saying when they go out is “Don’t stray from the herd”.
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No matter, girls, women & society are not well served by cloistering women against all of life’s dangers because of ignorant ideas while simultaneously dismissing said dangers and consequences based on more ignorant ideas that rejects science and common sense. All the while impugning the intelligence and motives of women. My son is also taught the dangers of life & with whom he associates as is my daughter. That’s another discussion however. None of what has been argued by the right justifies ignorance or blaming the victims or dismissing the number of victims down so as to become inconsequential.
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Build trust with your daughters and let them KNOW ther are a lot of sick people out there/be careful who u trust.
Quote from fw
Quote from walshnuc
Im not a psychologist, so I really dont know how often things like this happen, but being the father of three daughters makes me feel rather uneasy. At least Im far lest flippant now.
Tell your daughters to
– not attend college away from home,
– not drink,
– stay away from the fraternity and party scene,
– stay away from house parties,
– not get involved with drug addicts and wife-beaters.It’ll cut down the risk by about 85%.
Make sure your conversations are graphic, don’t tiptoe around the real issues. I had that conversation with a 14 year old niece the other day who came to spend the summer with us and went to visit some other friends for a couple of days during the stay. It is better to offend some sensibilities than to be sorry afterwards.
I know you are not allowed to say this, but personal choices and behavior go a long way to control the risk of being the victim of sexual violence. They can go jogging in unlit parking garages wearing skimpy outfits all night, the odds of something happening there are very very small relative to tagging along to a party with some older cousins or friends. -
General Alexrod to the rescue!! He’s on fire! Its great to launch as many ribald robo-charges against the repubs so they dont know what’s coming next.
Look what Axe has done over the last few months: Govenor Romney is conducting a war on women, hell Gov. Romney personally killed a cancer-stricken woman himself!! Even better, Ryan and Romney are in the commercials pushing old women off the cliffs! He’s fired 100s of 1000s of Americans to get rich, because he wants more tax breaks for himself. After all he’s been labeled as a felonious tax cheat by the leading congressional Democrat. And of course it goes without saying that Gov. Romney and Rep. Ryan (dating history not withstanding) hates all minorities including blacks and hispanics, as he’ll put them all back in “chains” as the Vice President said. What next for team Axe–a little blonde girl picking at a daisy, counting and then cut back to a mushroom cloud, only this time added extra-scenes with charred zombies from Grosse Pointe and the Hamptons wondering around with burnt Romney hats still on their hairless heads!
Gawd, I am damn proud that all the democrats are able to suspend reality and cheer the dirt and mud more and more. It’s awesome! It doesnt have to be even close to even ‘truthiness’; its just fun and sport to sling the mud that repubs deserve. Keep it up guys, keep shelling it out against Romney like there’s no tomorrow. Who cares if it is accurate or even civil. It detracts for the economy being down in the dumps and all the welfare rules being re-written to give goodies to the people who need it without working for the bossman. The President needs to run up even more debt than the 60% spike in the first 4 years. President Obama rightfully knows with enough debt, there will be no turning back from his administration transitioning the US to a central Washington-directed economy And, its also great politics to distract attention to the unemployment situation while the economy becomes more and more centralized.
Keep up the good work Chicago wonderboy and next Ill. Senator Alexrod. -
[link=https://www.cbsnews.com/news/todd-akin-legitimate-rape-dead-74/]Todd Akin, who made “legitimate rape” comment, has died at 74[/link]
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Quote from SadRad
[link=http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/20/politics/campaign-wrap/index.html?hpt=hp_t2]http://www.cnn.com/2012/0…p/index.html?hpt=hp_t2[/link]
One of your fellow right wing nutjobs says that in cases of legitimate rape, the woman’s body has the power to shut down the process of becoming pregnant.
Could one of you right wing wackos explain to the rest of us what a legitimate rape is? I’m all ears!
Also, what is this amazing process where a woman can prevent her body from becoming pregnant without any medical intervention?
Again, I’d love to hear the explanation from one of you right wing nutjobs.
Take a hike, sadrad.
People who ID themselves as conservative (not me) are no more responsible for this idiots utterances than you are for Bernie Sanders or Stalin.
Ultimate troll behavior – attributing the stupid statement of someone to specific people on the board and telling them to explain themselves.
Please resign from A.M.
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Part of the problem however, as republicans supposedly condemn Akin’s remarks they have adopted the platform of no exceptions including rape and incest, not to mention Ryan’s partnership with Akin on the extremist “Personhood” proposal, “The Santity of Life Act.”
[link=http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112hr212ih/pdf/BILLS-112hr212ih.pdf]http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/…f/BILLS-112hr212ih.pdf[/link]
5 In the exercise of the powers of the Congress, includ
6 ing Congress power under article I, section 8 of the Con
7 stitution, to make necessary and proper laws, and Con
8 gress power under section 5 of the 14th article of amend
9 ment to the Constitution of the United States
10 (1) the Congress declares that
11 (A) the right to life guaranteed by the
12 Constitution is vested in each human being, and
13 is the paramount and most fundamental right
14 of a person; and
15 (B) the life of each human being begins
16 with fertilization, cloning, or its functional
17 equivalent, irrespective of sex, health, function
18 or disability, defect, stage of biological develop19
ment, or condition of dependency, at which time
20 every human being shall have all the legal and
21 constitutional attributes and privileges of
22 personhood;
So as they condemn him they simultaneously adopt his remarks as part of the GOP platform. Akin is more honest than republicans want to acknowledge to the public.
It raises interesting questions as Dem Rep. Louise Slaughter asked,
[b]One of the questions around this legislation is, Could a rapist who impregnated a victim sue that victim if she decided not to carry that baby and to have an abortion?[/b]-
How does Akin & republicans explain Jaycee Lee Dugard’s children among other examples?
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Quote from Frumious
Part of the problem however, as republicans supposedly condemn Akin’s remarks they have adopted the platform of no exceptions including rape and incest, not to mention Ryan’s partnership with Akin on the extremist “Personhood” proposal, “The Santity of Life Act.”
[link=http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112hr212ih/pdf/BILLS-112hr212ih.pdf]http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/…f/BILLS-112hr212ih.pdf[/link]
15 (B) the life of each human being begins
16 with fertilization, cloning, or its functional
17 equivalent, irrespective of sex, health, function
18 or disability, defect, stage of biological develop
19 ment, or condition of dependency, at which time
20 every human being shall have all the legal and
21 constitutional attributes and privileges of
22 personhood;
Unfortunately, the definition of “life” in that document absolutely violates all legal and medical precedents for the definition of that term. If Congress ever enacted this bill, then it would need to revise every other law regarding the acquisition and transfer of rights of a living individual. Ain’t gonna happen.
This bill is simply an expression of a political ideology and has no intention to serve the people.
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And the “rape scandal” makes it to Romney’s feet:
[link=http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/244679-report-doctor-behind-akin-comment-was-romney-surrogate]http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/244679-report-doctor-behind-akin-comment-was-romney-surrogate[/link]
[i]The Los Angeles Times[/i] [link=http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-doctor-behind-todd-akins-rape-theory-was-a-romney-surrogate-in-2007-20120821,0,80862.story?track=rss][b]reported[/b][/link] Tuesday that Dr. Jack C. Willke, a physician whom abortion-rights opponents often reference when making the claim that pregnancies from rape are uncommon, served as a surrogate for Romney in his bid for the party’s 2008 nomination.
“Dr. Willke is a leading voice within the pro-life community and will be an important surrogate for Gov. Romney’s pro-life and pro-family agenda,” a statement from the 2007 Romney campaign said in October of that year.
Team Romeny now only giving interviews if given assurances that abortion and Willke are *not* mentioned by the reporter. (source= NPR news ATC)
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This story just keeps making democrats smile –
[link=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/24/todd-akin-missouri_n_1826778.html]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/24/todd-akin-missouri_n_1826778.html[/link]
Todd Akin Keeps Support Of Missouri Conservatives Who Blast Republican ‘Establishment’
At first I felt (Akin’s comments) were offensive to women and insulting to my intelligence,” said Lisa Payne-Naeger, a member of the conservative Missouri Grassroots Coalition, who has an online political radio show. “What changed it for me was the Republican establishment’s effort to chop him off at the knees and install one of their own in the race.”Payne-Naeger said she was so angered by the “onslaught” from party leaders that she donated to Akin’s campaign on Wednesday.
Nearly two dozen Missouri Republicans interviewed on Wednesday and Thursday, most in the St. Louis area, but some in other parts of the state, expressed similar views.
Akin has seized on this theme, launching a “Help Todd Fight Back Against the Party Bosses” fundraising drive that his campaign said netted $100,000 in small donations this week.
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Akin 2.0
[h1][b]GOP Candidate Suggests Pregnancy Not Likely After Rape[/b][/h1]
Yesli Vega (R) the GOP nominee in Virginias 7th Congressional District vying to unseat Rep. Abigail Spanberger (D-VA) drew outrage after [link=https://www.axios.com/local/richmond/2022/06/27/yesli-vega-pregnancy-rape-audio-recording]audio published by Axios Richmond[/link] appeared to capture her theorizing inaccurately about why rape might not lead to pregnancy in a conversation about abortion and exceptions to abortion bans, the [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2022/06/27/yesli-vega-abortion-rape/]Washington Post[/link] reports.
