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  • What do you want?

    Posted by Unknown Member on September 28, 2013 at 8:57 am

    Lil experiment here.
     
    Been dropping in and out of this joint for a while. The wide range of opinions and stuff are pretty interesting, maybe even amazing.
     
    So heres the experemint.  Please TRY to tell everybody just what it is you believe. What drives you to think like you do? Why are you a liberal or conservative. 
     
    Heres the hard part…TRY to tell this without being snarky or saying bad stuff about the other side.
     
    I’ll start…
     
    I am a religious person. I believe in workin hard for what you get, and in personal responsibility. Don’t like big government. I believe in charity as part of my faith and as a physician (a good one IMHO) I take care of poor people pro bono cuz I think thats the right thing to do. I do not think health care is a “right”. I don’t think its right to over tax the “rich” and redistribute to the poor. Would rather see work programs to raise them up. You know, the give the guy a fish vs. teach him to fish thing. Strong supporter of Israel, not just for biblical reasons. Really worried about radical Islamm, especially after the recent thing in Kanya. Don’t like abortion, but I think its between woman and God, and not the business of any politician, certainly shouldn’t be the litmas test for any one candidate. 
     
    Thats a good start. Whose next? Remember, no snarkyness or insults. Just talk. 

    kayla.meyer_144 replied 3 years, 5 months ago 11 Members · 158 Replies
  • 158 Replies
  • Unknown Member

    Deleted User
    September 28, 2013 at 9:05 am

    [b]Been dropping in and out of this joint for a while. [/b]
     
    You are here all the time
     
    always saying your leaving and coming back with in hours or a day
     
    STFU no one likes you
     

    • Unknown Member

      Deleted User
      September 28, 2013 at 9:11 am

      Behold the Communists…preaching tolerance and then displaying anger and hatred and intolerance like this. And free speech is only for them, and anyone who disagrees shoud STFU. Shame on you. Poor excuse for an AMERICAN, you are.
       
      Glad you care enough to monitor my comings and goings. Guess your real job doesn’t challenge you enough. Assuming you even have one.
       
      Now be so kind as to respond to th request I made at the beginning or just sit back and see if anybody cares to answer properly and politely for once. I’m guessing youre answer is gonna be pretty typical.
       

      • Unknown Member

        Deleted User
        September 28, 2013 at 9:55 am

        But seriously
         
        You are here all the time always telling everyone your just poppin in then saying your leaving
         
        Just leave……No one pays attention to you

        • Unknown Member

          Deleted User
          September 28, 2013 at 10:15 am

          Boo hooo…Komrade KKrack is attempting to hurt my feelings.  And clearly YOU are payiing a LOT of attention to me. Got a thing for cardiologists? Sorry, already taken, but I’ll keep you in mind, sugar.
           
          But… Seems you won’t answer the question, huh? Got something to hide? 

          • Unknown Member

            Deleted User
            September 28, 2013 at 10:57 am

            Quote from CardiacEvent

            Got something to hide? 

            It’s just that you are simply unworthy of such personal disclosure, that’s all.
             
             

        • janecreeve_520

          Member
          September 28, 2013 at 10:24 am

          Quote from kpack123

          But seriously

          You are here all the time always telling everyone your just poppin in then saying your leaving

          Just leave……No one pays attention to you

           
          kpack
           
          If your posts are good indicator of your intelligence, then you are certainly one of the dumbest participants on this board. If I were Lux, Thor, or Frumi, then I would want you off my side.
           
          sorry for getting off topic. 

          • Unknown Member

            Deleted User
            September 28, 2013 at 10:57 am

            [b]If your posts are good indicator of your intelligence,[/b]
             
            Coming from a right wingnut in denial about who he is I’ll take that as a compliment
             
            I am definitely not smart like the conservatives on this forum
             
            I don’t work as hard the conservatives on this forum
             
            Im obviously living off the government dole and suckling the teat of entitlements
             
            Im probably  not even a Physician like you really smart conservatives
             
             

            • Unknown Member

              Deleted User
              September 28, 2013 at 11:01 am

              All Jokes aside 
               
              This is what this forum has become.  Use to have some good conservative Posters, who could make a reasonable point try to substantiate it and give a good debate
               
              Today all the righties on the forum are just name calling baitors or passive agressive wannabees with nothing but party line rants
               
              So when in rome……………….

            • Unknown Member

              Deleted User
              September 28, 2013 at 11:05 am

              What wonderful, intelligent answers.
               
              I really did want to try to learn about why you think the way you do, and give you some insight into my own ideas. Clearly, you fear an honest and open exchange. Perhaps it’s too hard for you to face up to whatever it is that inspires you. Feeling a little empty inside perhaps?  A little embarrassed about embracing ideals and philosophies you know are wrong? A little sad about constantly denigrating people you know don’t deserve it and placing lowlife on pedestals?
               
              Yeah, I wouldn’t admit it either. 
               
              So ends an honest attempt at dialogue. 

              • Unknown Member

                Deleted User
                September 28, 2013 at 11:15 am

                [b]Clearly, you fear an honest and open exchange. Perhaps it’s too hard for you to face up to whatever it is that inspires you. Feeling a little empty inside perhaps?  A little embarrassed about embracing ideals and philosophies you know are wrong? [/b]
                 
                Speaking for myself  and being honest.  I just really think you aren’t worth it
                 
                Your sorta troll like always saying your just popping in and leaving when your here all the time
                 
                Just not worth an exchange that requires thought

                • Unknown Member

                  Deleted User
                  September 28, 2013 at 11:35 am

                  OK, you’ve said that three times now. Since I’m so unworthy and beneath your threshold of importance, why do you continue to respond but not answer? Please feel free to block me or otherwise ignore me. You are making yourself look even more foolish by this childish obsession with my comings and goings. 
                   
                  Some of us don’t have the time, or the stomach, to constantly sit on these boards and post and post and post and post. You have over 2000 entries, and your partner Lux has almost 4000, accumulated in a rather short period of time. I have to work, and I simply cannot spend all day, every day, playing with you. Occasionally I get disgusted with what I see, and swear to leave and never return, but I will confess to human frailty and the compulsion to stop and view the automobile accident on the side of the road. That would be you and your buddies’ endless support a philosophy so totally foreign to me that I can’t believe it’s being voiced by an American citizen. 
                   
                  I’m sorry you don’t feel I’m “worth” your responding. I was trying to set a different, understanding tone on this particular thread, no name calling, maybe a little respect. It doesn’t particularly surprise me that you don’t want to try that. 
                   
                  Speaking for myself, and being honest, I feel sorry for you and Lux and Frumious and the other die-hard liberals. I really and truly do. 

                  • Unknown Member

                    Deleted User
                    September 28, 2013 at 11:41 am

                    [b]Please feel free to block me or otherwise ignore me. [/b]
                     
                    I actually did 
                     
                    My settings got reset but OK Back to normalcy

                    • Unknown Member

                      Deleted User
                      September 28, 2013 at 11:57 am

                      Quote from kpack123

                      [b]Please feel free to block me or otherwise ignore me. [/b]

                      I actually did 

                      My settings got reset but OK Back to normalcy

                       
                      That is your privilege. You can shut me up and out of your own little world in that manner. I’m rather bemused by the fact that I bother you so much. You might want to do a little introspection and answer my interrogative in your own mind, if not reveal yourself to the public. Have a delightful life.

                  • Unknown Member

                    Deleted User
                    September 28, 2013 at 12:41 pm

                    Quote from CardiacEvent

                    I was trying to set a different, understanding tone on this particular thread, no name calling, maybe a little respect. It doesn’t particularly surprise me that you don’t want to try that. 

                    Spewing vile to people and then trying to make amends by simply asking them to cough up personal information just shows how emotionally dysfunctional you are. A husband who b;tch-slaps his wife and then thinks the way to make up is to ask her to have sex with him is grounds for a domestic violence call, you clown.

                    You could at least buy us flowers first.
                     
                    😉
                     
                     

                    • Unknown Member

                      Deleted User
                      September 28, 2013 at 12:59 pm

                      [image]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_-8ISnYPL4Q4/TA6WXJgLDYI/AAAAAAAAAU4/MtAdEW1SXbw/s400/dead-flowers.jpg[/image]
                       
                      Here you go!  Listen, Lux, you haven’t been exactly the most polite and genteel guy around here either. You haven’t been b*tch slapped in any stretch of the imagination.  However, you [i]have[/i] put forth a constant stream of very personal insults, bordering on slander in that you have implied that those who disagree with you are incompetent physicians, and in this you have gone much further than any of the the rest of the people posting here. You need to realize how YOU are coming across.
                       
                      Why are you so hesitant to talk about why you think as you do? Afraid we’re all going to contact your parents or your teachers from dozens of years ago? 

                    • Unknown Member

                      Deleted User
                      September 28, 2013 at 3:06 pm

                      To put it simply, I have nothing nice to say to people who are arrogantly overconfident, who feel entitled, who argue about issues when they are uninformed about them, who argue against things they don’t realize they depend on for their way of life, who propose policies that can needlessly kill people, simply because they think those policies will put a few more bucks in their pocket…and who buy me a bouquet of dead flowers.
                       
                       

                    • drmaryamgh

                      Member
                      September 28, 2013 at 4:37 pm

                      Try to avoid mirrors.

                    • drmaryamgh

                      Member
                      September 28, 2013 at 4:39 pm

                      To put it simply, Lux is so blinded by his own intolerance and hatred that he outed himself on his last post.  Amazing.

                    • btomba_77

                      Member
                      September 28, 2013 at 5:15 pm

                      I come from a rather traditional middle American middle class background.  Raised  as a Christian scientist I have been for 20 years now an atheist who considers himself a secular humanist.  I am married without children. 
                       
                       While I am not anti-religious, I am strongly opposed to any notion of using christian (or any other religious)  bibilical doctrine in the making of public policy.  This shapes my progressive view on social issues (as I feel that the real opposition to most social issues is religiously based. )
                       
                        I am in favor of using science for the formation of policy decisions. 
                       

                       
                       I have travelled widely and, while I find the United States to be the place I most wish to live and love it dearly, I find it laughable that people might consider that any policy that is favored in europe is somehow by-default  a bad idea.
                       
                      I see  corporatism as overly strong in our country and favor strong financial and environmental regulation as a check on that power. 
                       
                      I see financial inequality not as a failing of the poor peoples’ lack of work ethic, but as the fallout of decades of asymmetrical political influence by the wealthy elites with the current system veering toward the dominance of a self-perpetuating dynastic minority plutocracy, a gutting of the middle  class and the creation of permanent underclass in poorly paid unstable service jobs.
                       
                      To counteract this trend I favor progressive policies that bring more dollars to the financially disadvantageded in the areas of health care, education, the tax code, job training etc.
                       
                       
                      What I want is a secular, progressive, egalitarian, United States technocracy where a full social safety net allows more people to exercise fully the freedoms that this country provides.
                       
                       

                    • btomba_77

                      Member
                      August 3, 2020 at 7:36 am

                      Quote from dergon

                      I come from a rather traditional middle american middle class background.  Raised  as a christian scientist I have been for 20 years now an atheist who considers himself a secular humanist.

                      While I am not anti-religious, I am strongly opposed to any notion of using christian (or any other religious)  bibilical doctrine in the making of public policy.  This shapes a progressive view on social issues as the real opposition to most social issues is religiously based.

                       I am in favor of using science for the formation of policy decisions. 

                      I am married without children.

                      I have travelled widely and, while I find the United States to be the place I most wish to live and love it dearly, I find it laughable that people might consider that any policy that is favored in europe is somehow by-default  a bad idea.

                      I see  corporatism as overly strong in our country and favor strong financial and environmental regulation as a check on that power. 

                      I see financial inequality not as a failing of the poor peoples’ lack of work ethic, but as the fallout of decades of asymmetrical political influence by the wealthy elites with the current system veering toward the dominance of a self-perpetuating dynastic minority plutocracy, a gutting of the middle  class and the creation of permanent underclass in poorly paid unstable service jobs.

                      To counteract this trend I favor progressive tax policies that bring more dollars to the financially disadvantaged in the areas of health care, education, the tax code, job training etc.

                      [b]What I want is a secular, progressive, egalitarian, United States technocracy where a full social safety net allows more people to excerise fully the freedoms that this country provides. [/b]

                      [link=https://www.auntminnie.com/Forum/post.aspx?mq=398892&messageID=398890]https://www.auntminnie.com/Forum/post.aspx?mq=398892&messageID=398890[/link]

  • Unknown Member

    Deleted User
    September 28, 2013 at 11:29 am

    Let’s not pretend anything close to honest good faith dialogue happens here.

  • drmaryamgh

    Member
    September 28, 2013 at 11:43 am

    I come from a rather conservative upbringing.  I am fiscally conservative and moderate to conservative on social issues.  I think I lean more libertarian as I get older.  
    Religiously active with time and monetary commitments.
    Concerned for the long-term welfare of my kids, all four of them.
    Former military.
    Business owner with significant financial obligations to employees and capital investments.
    Mid-forties.
    Strongly believe in working hard to get what you want out of life.  Not opposed to charity.  Contributes greatly to charity but upset by people gaming the system and refusing to take responsibility for their own actions or inactions.  This strongly affects my political views.
    Personally against abortion.  Understand why someone may terminate in the case of significant fetal anomalies.  Have had relatives deal with these issues.  Can not accept abortion for the sake of convenience.
    Adoptive father of baby boy.
    Work long hours to provide, expect to see rewards of my work.
    Lived and visited around the world.  Foreign language fluency.  Increased love of America as a result of personally seeing the alternatives.
    Believe in Christianity.  Expect judgement based on the way I live my life.
     

  • suyanebenevides_151

    Member
    September 28, 2013 at 5:55 pm

    Dergon,
     
    Why hasn’t this been accomplished, in your opinion?
     
    As far as a poster like kpack is concerned, it’s just odd. He talks about “there used to be good posters” (presumably with a conflicting / different point of view) but it’s all hot air. As an example, he dive bombs threads in which people make legitimate, real and factual points with conclusions (see my last post on the global warming thread). Suggest why the conclusions are incorrect, don’t be the hypocrite by doing exactly what you claim others have perpetrated in the past. It’s just childish.

    • btomba_77

      Member
      September 28, 2013 at 7:54 pm

      Quote from Cigar

      Dergon,

      Why hasn’t this been accomplished, in your opinion?

      Because as of yet no one has mastered the technology to turn forum posts into reality 😉

    • eyoab2011_711

      Member
      September 28, 2013 at 7:55 pm

      Sorry CE… a leopard doesn’t change his spots.  Too much nonsense from you to believe you are suddenly interested in thoughtful comments

  • kayla.meyer_144

    Member
    September 29, 2013 at 5:22 am

    Quote from CardiacEvent

     
    Heres the hard part…TRY to tell this without being snarky or saying bad stuff about the other side. 

    I’ll start…

    I am a religious person.

    Your 2nd post you failed to turn the other cheek & became snarky yourself. 1st rule, it does not matter what the other guy does, it matters what you do. 
     

    Quote from CardiacEvent

     
    I believe in workin hard for what you get, and in personal responsibility.

    Your 1st error in leading with a conclusion. Who does not believe in hard work and personal responsibility on this board? We all work and we all have built lives based on responsibility.
     
    DUH.
     

    Quote from CardiacEvent

     
    Don’t like big government.

    No context. What is “big?” The US Government is bigger than in 1791 but so what. That government could not exist in today’s world.
     

    Quote from CardiacEvent

     I believe in charity as part of my faith and as a physician (a good one IMHO) I take care of poor people pro bono cuz I think thats the right thing to do.

    Not exactly drawing a line on the sand separating any of us.
     

    Quote from CardiacEvent

     
    I do not think health care is a “right”.

    Society has no interest in improving health care? Suffering and dying due to circumstances not under your control is “freedom?” As in the song by Kris Kristofferson and Fred Foster,
     
    “Freedom’s just another word for nothing left to lose.”
     
    A “right” compared to what? As in society is not obligated or responsible to help the less fortunate, that is only the responsibility of personal charity & not society.
     
    Government’s responsibilities include health care. We can argue degree. How do you separate government from helping the less fortunate?
     

    Quote from CardiacEvent

     
    I don’t think its right to over tax the “rich” and redistribute to the poor. Would rather see work programs to raise them up. You know, the give the guy a fish vs. teach him to fish thing.

    2nd error leading with a conclusion. Who is “over-taxed?” Taxes have gone down for decades.
     
    Traditionally the poor have been overtaxed for the rich. What about distribution? Why should the rich deserve many multiples more of what the poor earn? So the employee earns $30K while upper management earns $500k, $1M, hundreds of millions of $. What is that?
     
    Henry Ford realized that you pay workers a good wage & they themselves can buy the products he and they were making, thus improving the business and company earnings. Improve jobs and wages for the middle class but do it at the front end then distribute better up front instead of taxes from behind.
     
    As for work programs, how would you propose paying for them without taxes? How much do you think they cost? Cheap? Only in the imagination. It would start with being underfunded & continue to be underfunded. And since when did conservatives believe it was the government’s responsibility to provide work programs? I thought that was a Liberal idea, the kind of thing Roosevelt did.
     

    Quote from CardiacEvent

     
    [size=”0″]Strong supporter of Israel, not just for biblical reasons.

    [/size]
    [size=”0″]Israel = government charity? I have complicated feelings about supporting Israel.[/size]
     
    [size=”0″]

    Quote from CardiacEvent

     Don’t like abortion, but I think its between woman and God, and not the business of any politician, certainly shouldn’t be the litmas test for any one candidate.  

    [/size]
    [size=”0″]OK[/size]

    Quote from CardiacEvent

     Thats a good start. Whose next? Remember, no snarkyness or insults. Just talk. 

    Done.

    • Unknown Member

      Deleted User
      September 29, 2013 at 8:12 am

      While we’re waitin for Frumious to tell us about his [i]own[/i] views, and for Professor Thor to answer without being snarky…
       

      Quote from Frumious

      Quote from CardiacEvent

      Heres the hard part…TRY to tell this without being snarky or saying bad stuff about the other side. 

      I’ll start…

      I am a religious person.

      Your 2nd post you failed to turn the other cheek & became snarky yourself. 1st rule, it does not matter what the other guy does, it matters what you do. 
       
      [b]See above. I don’t claim to be perfect.[/b]

      Quote from CardiacEvent

       
      I believe in workin hard for what you get, and in personal responsibility.

      Your 1st error in leading with a conclusion. Who does not believe in hard work and personal responsibility on this board? We all work and we all have built lives based on responsibility.

      DUH.
       
      [b]I don’t know how hard you do or don’t work. But you guys clearly support wealth redistribution and welfare, and other entitlements that the “rich” are to pay for so the “poor” can be maintained with little effort on their part.[/b]

      Quote from CardiacEvent

       
      Don’t like big government.

      No context. What is “big?” The US Government is bigger than in 1791 but so what. That government could not exist in today’s world.
       
      [b]Big is naturally a subjective. But when more  and more and more people in this country are becomin employees of the government than of the private sector, there’s probably somethin wrong. More regulation, more government oversight. Do I even need to get into the NSA spying stuff?[/b]

      Quote from CardiacEvent

       I believe in charity as part of my faith and as a physician (a good one IMHO) I take care of poor people pro bono cuz I think thats the right thing to do.

      Not exactly drawing a line on the sand separating any of us.
       
      [b]Excuse me, but my group gives away about $3million a year in free cardiac caths and other proceedures, and I give to charity on top of that, not to mention 50% confiscatory tax rate. What percent of [i]your[/i] income did you give to the poor? You talk about it, I DO it. [/b]

      Quote from CardiacEvent

       
      I do not think health care is a “right”.

      Society has no interest in improving health care? Suffering and dying due to circumstances not under your control is “freedom?” As in the song by Kris Kristofferson and Fred Foster,

      “Freedom’s just another word for nothing left to lose.”

      A “right” compared to what? As in society is not obligated or responsible to help the less fortunate, that is only the responsibility of personal charity & not society.

      Government’s responsibilities include health care. We can argue degree. How do you separate government from helping the less fortunate?
       
      [b]Non sequitor, friend. The governments interest does NOT create a right. Free speech is a right, even though (eespecially  with today’s government) it could be detrimental to the government. Same for the right to bear arms. Govern’ments place is to [i]allow[/i] rights, not to [i]provide[/i] and PAY for them. Is it good to help people? Sure. That’s why I do it. I mean, take it to the extreme. Does the drunk in the gutter whose destroyed his liver have a RIGHT to a new one, paid for by government, and potentially takin that liver away from a 55 year old PACS consultant who caught Hepatitis  while on a mission trip helping poor people in Asia? I say no. And before you say it, the “right to life” aint’ the same as the right to healthcare. Right to life is a negative right…basically the government doesn’t have the right to kill you without cause. [/b]

      Quote from CardiacEvent

       
      I don’t think its right to over tax the “rich” and redistribute to the poor. Would rather see work programs to raise them up. You know, the give the guy a fish vs. teach him to fish thing.

      2nd error leading with a conclusion. Who is “over-taxed?” Taxes have gone down for decades.

      Traditionally the poor have been overtaxed for the rich. What about distribution? Why should the rich deserve many multiples more of what the poor earn? So the employee earns $30K while upper management earns $500k, $1M, hundreds of millions of $. What is that?

      Henry Ford realized that you pay workers a good wage & they themselves can buy the products he and they were making, thus improving the business and company earnings. Improve jobs and wages for the middle class but do it at the front end then distribute better up front instead of taxes from behind.

      As for work programs, how would you propose paying for them without taxes? How much do you think they cost? Cheap? Only in the imagination. It would start with being underfunded & continue to be underfunded. And since when did conservatives believe it was the government’s responsibility to provide work programs? I thought that was a Liberal idea, the kind of thing Roosevelt did.
       
      [b]I don’t believe I said the government should pay for work programs, although as an interim it would be better thn simply shovelin the money at the poor. As for the discrepancy between rich and poor, why is that morally wrong? I’m “rich” by some standards, but there are guys out there with 100 or 1000 times what I’ve got. Why is that OK? While I don’t want to be poor myelf, the “poor” in this country live as well or better than the middle class in a lot of Eurpoean countries. Is that OK? [/b]
      [b] [/b]

      Quote from CardiacEvent

       
      [size=”0″]Strong supporter of Israel, not just for biblical reasons.

      [/size]
      [size=”0″]Israel = government charity? I have complicated feelings about supporting Israel.[/size]
       
      [b]Israel is the one place in the Middleeast that supports rights for everyone, and that includes Palestinians. How long would a gay Palestinian last wavin a rainbow flag in Gaza city? Bout one swish of the flag.  I won’t get into the argument about radical Islam righ this second, but the events in Kenya should tell you a lot about what we’re dealin with over there. By charity your referring to the aid we give them which comes back to us in weapons purchases. Cast your bread across the waters, as they say.[/b]

      [size=”0″]

      Quote from CardiacEvent

       Don’t like abortion, but I think its between woman and God, and not the business of any politician, certainly shouldn’t be the litmas test for any one candidate.  

      [/size]
      [size=”0″]OK[/size]
       
      [b]I have huge problems with people voting for or against somebody based on the abortion views. I have huge problems with candidates on both sides that use this really emotional issue in their campaigns. But I think abortion has become the poster child of the Left, as it allows for indiscriminate sex without consequesnces. Yup, there’s that personal responsibility thing again.  Still, and you might be surprized by this, I don’t think its any of my (or your) business.[/b]
       

      Quote from CardiacEvent

       Thats a good start. Whose next? Remember, no snarkyness or insults. Just talk. 

      Done.

  • kayla.meyer_144

    Member
    September 29, 2013 at 7:11 am

    Just to add to my comments regarding “big” government & its responsibilities and what it can do:
     
    [link=http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/29/opinion/sunday/dawn-of-a-revolution-in-health-care.html]http://www.nytimes.com/20…on-in-health-care.html[/link]
     

    The United States is embarking on a truly historic journey toward near-universal health care coverage this week. Starting Tuesday, the federal government will make it possible for millions of uninsured Americans who cant get health insurance, or cant afford it, to obtain coverage with the aid of government subsidies. It is a striking example of what government can do to help people in trouble.
     
    After decades of debate and bitter political battles, millions of uninsured Americans will soon be able to get health coverage they can afford, a right that has long been universal in other advanced nations.

     

    • Unknown Member

      Deleted User
      September 29, 2013 at 7:26 am

      You took the time to dissemble my narrative to your liking, but not a word about yourself.
       
      Perhaps I’m not as good a Christian as others. When attacked, I’m not that inclined to turn the other cheek. I posted seeking information, and kpack came out swinging. Would you all be happier if I bent over and took it like a man? I haven’t seen much of that on your end.
       
      To your second entry, Yes, IN THEORY more people will get insurance, although FAR fewer than advertised, and at a FAR greater price than advertised, paid for significantly on the backs of the majority of middle class, as well as the rich. Clearly you are OK with this. Please tell us WHY wealth redistribution is OK in your opinion.

      • btomba_77

        Member
        September 29, 2013 at 7:47 am

        Quote from CardiacEvent

         Please tell us WHY wealth redistribution is OK in your opinion.

        Wealth redistribution is an acceptable social policy to address income inequality when that income inequality has come about as the result of prior public policy that led to the asymmetrical wealth gains of the wealthy in the first place.   
         
        When you have an empowered wealthy minority class exerting massive undue influence on the political system in order to create a social system in which wealth and income continue to flow towards the rich and allow them to design the very system that increases that inequality on a perpetually ongoing basis then income and wealth redistribution is a reasonable policy response to address the problem.
         
        Of course, in the long term what would be better for the society would be to rebuild the political system in such a way that the wealthy are not able to wield undue influence on policy but … that is long way off.   
         
         
         
        All taxation is redistributionist in one way or another. The real question is how much of whose money is taken, and who gets it.  Politics gets nasty because everyone wants to control the business end of the tax-and-spend stick. Our current tax code and social policy has for decades allowed a redistribution of wealth [b]upward [/b], dramatically favoring the investor and saving classes at the expense of the working class.[/b]
         
        And by the way … more Americans than ever agree with me.  Nearly 6 in 10 Americans now favor wealth redistribution.  This is [i]new[/i] phenomenon in the thinking of the US electorate, a change brought about by the slow realization that the system is indeed presently rigged against the lower and middle class. 
         
        [b]
        [/b]

        • Unknown Member

          Deleted User
          September 29, 2013 at 8:09 am

          Wealth redistribution is like correcting a car’s course in a narrow and winding road to prevent it from driving off the cliff. Such course directions are necessary when the economy becomes unbalanced. It’s an essential function in any organized democratic republic that embraces capitalism and the free enterprise system.

          If people in the lower half of the income curve can drive on our roads to get to their bagger job at the local grocery store, and take books out of the library, and be protected by law enforcement, and have health insurance so that they can continue to be productive members of society and not roam around infecting everyone else, that’s essential wealth redistribution at work.

          The free enterprise system is not sustainable if it let the rich get as rich as they can get without making any adjustments. The best farmers know they must shell out cash to refertilize the soil so that it keeps on producing crops. We must take the same care in nurturing the consumer.

          Likewise, if we truly do want to set global humanitarian standards, we have no choice but to take care of the poor, infirm, and elderly to guarantee a baseline level of sustenance, shelter, and security.

          But right now the GOP has its sights set on turning America into a barbaric state just so that the rich/powerful can become a malignancy that eventually kills the beast. Some of us simply refuse to let that happen..

          • Unknown Member

            Deleted User
            September 29, 2013 at 8:33 am

            Quote from Lux

            But right now the GOP has its sights set on turning America into a barbaric state just so that the rich/powerful can become a malignancy that eventually kills the beast. Some of us simply refuse to let that happen..

             
            Now maybe we’re gettin somewhere.
             
            I don’t totally disagree with what you and dergon said until you get to this one quoted here.
             
            I [i]do[/i] believe in regulation that keeps people honest but doesn’t steal from them. Take derivatives, for example. Those were financial fiction designed to con investors and hide bad debt, that the banks jumped on when government forced them to make bad loans to people who couldn’t afford them. You won’t convince me otherwise on the second part of that, and I’ll bet you agree with me on the first. Ther should have been government regs in place tho to prevent derivative sales period. We still don’t have that.
             
            The tax system is a complete disaster, even before the onerous add-ons from Obamacare. I’m payin OVER 50% with all fed state and local taxes, and even more to come. I don’t know what limit you think is proper.  Do you want everybody to be at exactly the same level? Is it right to keep some exec who’s management keeps 100,000 people employed limited to 10x what the janitor makes? You have to trust the market, WITH REGULATION, to make these choiced. Wealth redistribution panders to those who want fancy stuff but don’t have the ability to get it without someone giving it to them. You can talk about minimum levels, but that isn’t ultimately what the redistributionists want. This is what I rightly or wrongly call socialism, and I know it doesn’t fit the exact definition but its in terms we all can understand.  You are justifying confiscation (theft) with the false premise that the wealth was not honestly earned.  Sometimes, that might be true, but nowhere near as often as you seem to want to think.
             
            I refuse to accept the premiss that I’ve taken what I got or stolen it or whatever because of medicare or favorable tax laws. I WORKED very hard for what I’ve got, and I’ll accept that you guys did too. 
             
            I don’t see the Republicans as a malignancy, but I’m pained that you do, and that’s clearly cuz you want wealth redistribution and the GOP doesn’t.  REally, that’s what this all comes down to , doesnt it?  I can’t help but think about Pelosi and her statement about how you need free health care so you can persue your dreams of bein an author or an artist, or hippie. See, that is exactly the opposite of what I believe. YOU (or your parents if they happen to be rich and generous) have to WORK for what you get. OK, kids, I wan’t to be a ballet dancer. Im sellin my practice and giving the procedes to charity, and goin to ballet school. How do you feel about payin for my healthcare out of YOUR pocket? But that’s what your askin me to do for other strangers. Can’t see how that is moral ethical or fair at all.
             
            But Lux,…”some of US refuse to let that happen”?  What is it yo mean by that?

            • Unknown Member

              Deleted User
              September 29, 2013 at 11:08 am

              [b][i]”But when more and more and more people in this country are becomin employees of the government than of the private sector, there’s probably somethin wrong. More regulation, more government oversight.”[/i][/b]

              [b][i]”But Lux…”[/i][/b]

              Just so you know (so you will stop asking me) I feel no compulsion whatsoever to answer any questions you ask me directly. The fact that you despise virtually anything taken out of your gross paycheck as being some evil redistribution of wealth or that you insist the gov’t continues to grow disproportionately shows the world how clueless you really are about the complexity if such social issues.

              I acknowledge your freedom to have whatever belief system you want. I just don’t acknowledge my obligation to defend my belief system to you. If you’re curious about my own belief system then feel free to read the comments I make to others.

              • kayla.meyer_144

                Member
                September 29, 2013 at 12:44 pm

                Reality still is that taxes and tax incentives directly pay for the majority of Cardiac’s income. That’s irony that he’s missing.
                 
                But then that is the sort of redistribution Cardiac supports, from the pockets of everyone into his.
                 
                 

  • kayla.meyer_144

    Member
    September 29, 2013 at 1:03 pm

    Provide jobs and living wages for the poor then no need for support programs for them. That’s pretty simple.
     
    The NSA spying was a Republican George Bush idea. Republicans never seemed worried about small government when 9-11 happened and George invaded Iraq. Your argument is irrelevant & beside the point. Spying on citizens has nothing to do with government size.
     
    Please show me where and how the Federal government takes 50% of your taxes especially with you and your group giving away $3 million. You need an accountant very badly and it sounds like you are earning a bit more than average income of $50k. I think you are fibbing and not speaking in reality.
     
    Free speech is a right as is the 2nd Amendment. Last time I noticed those rights were granted by the Founders of government in a government document outlining the rules of government. In the absence of government those “rights” don’t exist. Rights don’t exist in a vacuum.
     
    You never said how programs should be paid for at all & still don’t.
     
    Israel supports equal rights for everyone so long as everyone is Jewish. All others need not apply.

    • Unknown Member

      Deleted User
      September 29, 2013 at 3:35 pm

      Quote from Frumious

      Israel supports equal rights for everyone so long as everyone is Jewish. All others need not apply.

      And the “others” including Israeli women!
      Israel supports equal rights only for Israeli MEN.
       
       

      • Unknown Member

        Deleted User
        September 29, 2013 at 4:28 pm

        I didn’t think this would be easy, and you guys didn’t disapoint me.  
        I really wanted to try to understand why we think so differntly. Silly me.  Thanks for confirming what I allready thought about you… you don’t want to discuss, you don’t want to convince, you don’t want to persuade. You just want to be angry that people don’t agree with your world-view. I really did want to try to understand where you come from, but you don’t want to share that very personal information, and at least Lux wants to be angry that I even asked. Fine with me. You’ve got something to hide, hide away. And I’m not going to go over your 4000 posts or Frumious’s 6000 posts to confirm what I already know. You are socialists, armchair revolutionaries, angry that others have more than you and don’t want to gleefully give it away to those YOU think are worthy.
         
        I DON”T get all my income from the government, thank you, unlike academics (hey Thore, you listening?) who DO get paid by the governnent. But what about other rich people that absolutely didn’t get paid by th government…do THEY have to give it all back? And hell yes I get mad about money deducted for my paycheck. IF you say you don’t, than you are a bigger liar than you say I am.  I would LOVE to hire more people. But I can’t cus I don’t know what the future is thanks to Obamacare. Multiply that by a million employers and maybe you can grasp why no one is hiring and providing jobs for whatever percentage of the entitiled who would be willing to work.
         
        If you had taken the time to read instead of getting your pink lacy panties in a wad, you woud have noteiced that I said I’m paying 50%+ overall.  Fed, state, city, social security, medicare, Obamacare, sales, property etc…I’m probably more like 60%. But you would rather call me a liar than try to understand andything I’m trying to tell you. The way our group is organized, we don’t get to take as much of a deduction on the free care, but that’s the way it is. Arent you happy I’m paying more tax than you? 
         
        I should have known better to mention Israel to a bunch folks that have proven that they hate JEWS, but I guess I forgot. Silly me. I won’t bother pursuing this cus you’ll just go find SadRad who will put up 39 thousand references from Anti-JEW websites to “prove” your point. 
         
        Y’know, I’ve noticed a few things. Cocktail party liberals/socialists such as yourselves have zero sencse of humor. None. nada. I mean, the dead flower picture was FUNNY. Everyone else but our Rezident Communists probably thought was funny. THEY only think things are funny that diss conservatives or other peopel they don’t agree with. And another thing. Liberals get seethin steamin apopectically angry about stuff that doesn’t affect them directly, and rant and rave about stuff happening to everybody else. Conservatives like me get upset about stuff happening to us ourselves. So you are generous and caring and we are selfish, right? No, it goes deeper than that. Your ranting doesn’t accomplish anything beyond making you feel superior to me. You can bleat and bleat about how I’m stealing from the government and not giving enough back to suite your purposes, but most of what you whine about and for doesn’t affect YOU. The difference bewteen you and me is that I don’t hide behind this fake selflessness. I AM selfish, I embrace it, I make it work for me. BUT in the end, I personally do a H3LL of a lot more for the poor than all three of you members of the local Politburo combined. And you just cant stand that. YOu have to paint me as a racist, a liar, a thief of the PEOPLE”s funds, stoooopid, and whatever else. But deep down, yyou know the truth.  I’m a far better human being, helping many many more people than any of you pathetic Communist revolutionary wannabees could ever even dream about. YOU KNOW IT, and so we have to go through your self-agrandizing crud to make you feel better about it. 
         
        I just cant wait to hear your angry responses. Forgive me, Lord, I’m not yet perfect. I can’t turn the other cheek to this bunch. Yet. I’m workin on it.
         
        I’ll be watching, but some of us have to work on occasion, which explains my paltry coupla hundred posts. Where can I get a job where I can sit and pontificate and cometmplate my navel all day long?
         
         

        • angelesscalerandi

          Member
          September 29, 2013 at 8:12 pm

          I was raised with a Marine, vietnam vet (step) dad and rather conservative mother but also with a UAW union family on my real dad’s side.  All good union members, and all good democrats.   My grandfather (real dad’s side) was staunch union but also wwII vet.  Did not believe in driving a foreign car and very pro America.
           
          I am fiscally conservative and really don’t think the government should be involved in social issues to the extent it is.  I think most everything should be free market based with minimal regulations.  Like education.  
          I believe that providing for the poor is done best by providing opportunity for them to gain the dignity and self reliance that comes with a job.  
          I was poor once and all I wanted was the opportunity to pull myself up, I got it and I did.  I work hard and often and am very driven.  I believe part of this is because I know the difference first hand.
           
          I believe in private charity and small government.  
          I am more spiritual than ‘religous’ per se but it is an important part of my life.  I don’t attend church, but more because of time constraints than anything else.
          I have a daughter that serves in the Army and has been to Afghanistan (home now, thank God) and several siblings that are serving or have served.  Her husband is a flight medic for the National Guard. 
          I do believe in personal responsibility and that is not only in providing for myself and my family but in protecting them as well.
          I tend to fall into the category of libertarian when I look over the charts and checklists that are out there.   
           
           

          • angelesscalerandi

            Member
            September 29, 2013 at 8:19 pm

            “To put it simply, I have nothing nice to say to people who are arrogantly overconfident, who feel entitled, who argue about issues when they are uninformed about them, who argue against things they don’t realize they depend on for their way of life, who propose policies that can needlessly kill people, simply because they think those policies will put a few more bucks in their pocket…and who buy me a bouquet of dead flowers.”
             
            I love this response about how he is not going to respond.  The hypocrisy is stunning.  
            Kpack posts for people to “stfu” in a public forum.  Or what? Good lord, he can’t be fifteen years old.
            So I am confused….If I don’t have a point to make, or something to add to a discussion I simply don’t post. Why would you bother posting that you are not going to answer?  Juvenile doesn’t cover it.

            • Unknown Member

              Deleted User
              September 29, 2013 at 10:48 pm

              Fled a communist country with family as a child a la Von Trapp. Worked through high school and college in a grocery store. Paid my own college tuition. Served in the US military for 12 years, including Medical School and Residency.

              I believe that humans are imperfect and are subject to the lure of power and most will abuse that power if given the opportunity. For this reason a system of checks and balances is essential.

              I believe that small government is the most effective government. Some government is essential, but it must be constantly watched. Government and other bureaucracies will always naturally trend to want to grow, and if left unchecked, growth will become its raison d’ etre until it becomes a parasite that kills the host.

              I believe that capitalism is the most efficient system to build wealth, when wealth is built, all boats rise. Businesses are built that employ people.

              I believe that socialism, communism or any other re-distributive form of government destroys the human spirit and breeds dependence. This is a stark contrast to capitalist self-dependence, which breeds creativity, drive and pride.

              I believe that people should be able to keep the vast majority of the fruits of their labor. Taxation should never rise above one third of a man’s income. Even Kings and Lords knew not to overtax their serfs.

              I believe in a moral government, one that does not confiscate for the purposes of wealth redistribution, one in which the rule of law is followed and one that has an ethical compass based on sound social and moral values. A breech of trust, such as the recent IRS abuses destroys the moral authority of government.

              I believe in a reasonable safety net, in charity and family support systems, but with strings attached. Private and religious charities do this well, the government does this poorly. The lure of dependence and the nanny state are poisonous to society.

              Democracy works well when everyone has skin in the game, but when the number of people on the dole outstrips the number of people producing, democracy falls apart, as people will vote themselves benefits the country can’t afford. I think it was Ben Franklin who first stated this concept. I’m concerned that we are headed there under the current regime.

              The founding of this country had a strong religious influence. Many of our laws and values are based on Judeo-Christian teachings. Separation of Church and state has merit, but secularism has its own set of problems, mainly a lack of moral compass. Dismissing the ethos of our founding and ignoring the religious underpinnings of our founding documents may sound cool and “progressive”, but may be the fastest way to decline and decay of our society.

              I deeply dislike progressive pseudointellectualism and the progressive’s attitude that your hard earned money is theirs to command, because they know better, are more concerned or more humane.

              • kayla.meyer_144

                Member
                September 30, 2013 at 2:03 am

                I know Cardiac, the poor are a new American breed, the opposite of who made this country great. They are poor by choice and just want to mooch off of your hard work. These Welfare Kings & Queens live high on the hog on your dime. You on the other hand unlike them & liberals, work hard & deserve all you have and more. There is no connection between your hated taxes and your living. The Government is not involved in any way in your income and earnings except to make it less in order to give it, “redistribute it” to the undeserving mooches. That’s what we haven’t figured out.
                 
                In the absence of the government and its healthcare taxes and tax breaks and support, what do you think your earning would be? What is the “natural free-market” income for Radiologists without government interference & theft? Would you be in the 1% at all?

                • angelesscalerandi

                  Member
                  September 30, 2013 at 5:22 am

                  aldadoc…great post.  
                   
                  Frum, why do you get on here to insult people? The first post was really clear and yet you insist on just tearing everyone else’s beliefs apart. Seriously, why? Are you unable to articulate your thoughts and beliefs without being nasty and insulting? Are you really that miserable?

                  • Unknown Member

                    Deleted User
                    September 30, 2013 at 5:34 am

                    The worst part of it is, KW, that their attitude keeps dragging me down to their level. Not yet perfect, but tryin.
                     
                    Frumious, I’m disappointed that you won t tell us anything about how you came to think the way you do. Hope its not an embarrasing tail.  I would really like to know.
                     
                    Your constant refrain of nastyness toward people that think like me is sad. Interestin but sad. The thing is, I DO work hard, very hard for what I got, and I’m proud of it and what I’ve done and the charity I’ve given. Cut my taxes and I’ll give MORE charity and hire MORE people for my office. THATS how you redistribute wealth, not by stealing it via taxes. I’m not a radiologist by thw way, but seems you haven’t been listening.
                     
                    You and your Communist friends (sorry to be snarky, but I truly believe thats what you are) are really really good at telling me how to spend my money. This might be the biggest diffeerence between us. You harp and whine and bleat about how MY money as a “rich” person needs to go to help the poor, all the while knowin that your ideas will hurt ME a lot more than they will hurt YOU,and if anything make it so I help the poor LESS than I do now. I’ve already explained how I’m helpin the poor a lot more than you ever will, but maybe you don’t really care about the poor afterall.  You just want to punish me for bein richer than you. Think about it.

                    • Unknown Member

                      Deleted User
                      September 30, 2013 at 6:12 am

                      Ok  Have to admit I am about ready throw up about the entitled few on this forum who believe they are the only ones who work and everyone else who has a different political preference has some how had everything handed to them or is a communist socialist or what ever your name of the day is
                       
                      Here is my story
                       
                      Son of a Coal Miner. And A decorated WWII veteran. Grand son of immigrants on both sides.  Last of six Kids. Mom Died when I was 5.  
                       
                      Grandparents on both sides and father worked pretty much every day of their lives Never asked anyone for anything never borrowed a dime and paid cash  for everything
                       
                      When I was seven had a paper route.  Started a lawn mowing service with friends when I was 13.  Worked all through High school at a Farm and garden shop, Unloading trucks on the side managed to Letter in 4 varsity sports and earn a Scholarship to College for Football.
                       
                      Realized after my Sophomore year I was never going Pro so Gave up the football Dream and concentrated on Academics.  Worked nights 40- 50 hrs and Paid my way through College because that Idiot Reagan cut out almost all Federal grants and I wasn’t borrowing any money.  Got into Medical school and got Married after 1st year and Worked Weekends as a Security Guard all Med School
                       
                      My Dad never made more than 25,000 a year.  He invested money in the Stock market and taught me everything he knew.  He retired at 60 with a non-IRA portfolio of well over 2 million bucks and pretty much lived off the dividends for his remaining years.
                       
                      My goal quite frankly is to do same.
                       
                      I’ve never really asked anyone for anything.  I have no real respect or sympathy for those who feel they somehow work harder than everyone else therefore they are morally superior
                       
                      In My experience every one I have ever met that told me how hard they worked were just people who were slow and not very efficient and didn’t know how to get a job down well quickly…….and that includes Doctors and Radiologists alike.
                       
                      I don’t care about Race
                       
                      I don’t think any idiot should be allowed to carry a gun in public
                       
                      I think abortion is personal choice and just because you Carry a sign with a fetus on it does not mean you are going to heaven.
                       
                      When I volunteer or donate money I do it anonymously
                       
                      I really believe you create your own luck and own breaks in this world and whining and complaining  about everyone else doing less than you do is a big FNG waste of time.

                    • kayla.meyer_144

                      Member
                      October 1, 2013 at 2:28 am

                      Quote from CardiacEvent

                      Frumious, I’m disappointed that you won t tell us anything about how you came to think the way you do. Hope its not an embarrasing tail.  I would really like to know.

                      I’ve pretty well told my story before.
                       
                      I remember JFK & where I was when I first heard of the assassination & the funeral. I remember his election against Nixon & his 2nd Inauguration Speech (“Ask not what your Country can do for you…”), the Bay of Pigs & the Cuban Missile Crisis, the assassination of Diem, Buddhist self-immolations, Communism. Conservatism & Conservatives, fluoride in water, Communist Plots everywhere! Goldwater & “extremism” speech & all the conservative crazies that are in control of the GOP today.
                       
                      I lived down South for a time during the Civil Rights and had my eyes opened. “Whites Only” & “Colored” signs everywhere including in the laundromat (Why can’t I wash my colored clothes in these machines???…Oh ****e! Really?) I was a “niggger-lover” because I had gone to segregated schools up North & didn’t get the Southern way. Some of the nicest people I knew were racists and if not directly supported violence at least turned a blind eye to it. People not getting served was the least of it. “Outside agitators” and all that, news of murders, bombings, “Segregation now and forever” speech, Lester Maddox & axe handles from his hardware store. “Negro” town in every Southern town and what they looked like compared to the white areas of town. Sending Federal troops to desegregate schools and protect citizens against their white neighbors & to “grant” them their civil rights as guaranteed by the Constitution, Martin Luther and his march, signing of the Voting Rights Act etc. All by the Federal Government against States & Counties and citizens who were denying rights by law to a large group of people.
                       
                      Then there was the Gulf of Tonkin & Vietnam & the Domino Theory, Ho & Zhou Enlai, the Draft the daily body counts and the War of Attrition & how we were winning because “they” were in more body bags that we. The DMZ, the NVA, “Gooks,” TET Offensive. Cronkite & the other anchors. “My fellow Americans” and LBJ, Nixon, who supported Vietnam & who did not, anti-war demonstrations & war supporters mixing it up in riots. Kent State. MLK & Bobby Kennedy murders. The bombing of Cambodia. 1968 Democratic Convention (“The whole world is watching…”). 
                       
                      The Six Day War & Yom Kippur War the Munich Massacre.
                       
                      25 cent gas & the gas & energy crisis & OPEC. Inflation. Paul Volcker of The Fed & his war on inflation in 1978 into Reagan’s term.
                       
                      Nixon & his Silent Majority. Southern Democrats becoming Republicans using race to grow the GOP because of the voting Rights Act. Reagan & his “I believe in state’s rights” doublespeak speech for racism at Philadelphia, Mississippi. Lee Atwater. Deficits from Reagan’s tax cuts & then deficits as a deliberate GOP tool.
                       
                      My father was an alcoholic, my mother divorced him in the early 1960’s when proper women did not divorce. We got no support $ from him & my mother worked as a cafeteria worker & factory worker, etc to raise us kids. I remember being with relatives in a car with my mother. They were tsk-tsking about their daughter’s friend, my cousin’s friend who was found to be pregnant & my mother ripping them a new butthole for their malicious gossip & lack of sympathy for the girl. That made a big impression on me. My mother was an orphan of sorts, sent by her father to live with relatives when her mom died in childbirth. My mother was a strong influence on me about who you are compared to others. This is America, you kow-tow to no one, keep your head up & back straight & work & be responsible.
                       
                      There’s more but that’s the Reader’s Digest version.
                       
                       

                    • kayla.meyer_144

                      Member
                      October 1, 2013 at 4:47 am

                      So Cardiac, what is your remarkable story? Are you embarrassed? Born with a silver spoon in your mouth? I don’t recall you ever being exactly sweetness and light towards anyone on this board entitling you to be an abused martyr. Or is calling people communists a compliment in your neck of the woods. Or the usual falling back that anyone criticizing your entitled beliefs is just jealous of your wealth. Yeah, that works, everyone is just jealous of you. Why do so many of you entitled people fall back to the jealous defense?
                       
                      You have been a poster-boy of flippant snark.
                       
                       

                  • kayla.meyer_144

                    Member
                    September 30, 2013 at 7:02 am

                    [size=”0″]

                    Quote from KW818

                     [/size]

                    aldadoc…great post.  

                    Frum, why do you get on here to insult people? The first post was really clear and yet you insist on just tearing everyone else’s beliefs apart. Seriously, why? Are you unable to articulate your thoughts and beliefs without being nasty and insulting? Are you really that miserable?

                    What insult? The belief that the government is stealing in order to give to lazy mooches? That has been posted by several many many times including by many no longer posting on AM or Off Topic.
                     
                    Or is it the part that we earn our livings thanks largely in part to taxes, tax breaks & government pricing.
                     

                    • Unknown Member

                      Deleted User
                      September 30, 2013 at 7:12 am

                      I’ve tried in the past to point out the cognitive dissonance required to believe:
                       
                      A) Government regulation and taxes are by definition liberty-sapping evils.
                       
                      While the following is also a fundamental truth :
                      B) The US physician has enjoyed huge compensations over the last 60 years, particularly during the “glory days” of medicine, thanks directly to government regulations and taxes.
                       
                      But whatever.  The fiction of physicans as Randian capitalist superheroes is tantalizing.  We work hard and deserve what we get, no doubt, but ignoring the fact that we work in a government protected monopoly is plain dumb.

                    • angelesscalerandi

                      Member
                      September 30, 2013 at 7:16 am

                      give up on lux. he likes being angry, bitter and small. He is a waste of time.  He cannot post without insulting someone and still is so egotistical he thinks every post is aimed toward him.  I stopped answering him directly a while back.  He doesn’t make a point most of the time, just insults and assumes to know the motives and thoughts behind everyone else’s post not realizing how arrogant that is.  
                      I am sure we will all get a verbose post now about how stupid I am or how I am embarrassing myself or blah, blah blah blah..
                      or maybe he will go with the more mature retort of “get lost”. That is my favorite.
                       

            • Unknown Member

              Deleted User
              September 30, 2013 at 6:39 am

              Quote from KW818

              So I am confused….If I don’t have a point to make, or something to add to a discussion I simply don’t post. Why would you bother posting that you are not going to answer?  Juvenile doesn’t cover it.

              Before you make a bigger fool of yourself, go back and reread this discussion from the top. CardiacEvent, after unbridled hostility and ignorance in prior discussions claims he’s handing us an olive branch, but then he goes on and baits and baits and baits others to weigh in. And so my only answer to him was that I didn’t consider him worthy of an answer from me. There, I weighed. But that wasn’t good enough for him. So go tell him to STFU because no matter what opinion you give him, even though it’s clearly an opinion and does not claim to be based on any other factual evidence or data at all, still if it’s not the answer he wants you to give even though you are simply voicing a personal opinion (which basically is what he was ASKING for!), it’s still not good enough for him.
               
              So, we are waiting for you to tell CardiacEvent to just let others answer his question however they see fit and that he should simply accept those opinions and move on instead of baiting.
               
              And I don’t know how you were raised, but handing someone a bouquet of dead flowers is not exactly par with the concept of extending an olive branch. 
               
               

              • Unknown Member

                Deleted User
                September 30, 2013 at 6:43 am

                OH, come on, Lux. That was a joke and most everybody probably thinks its funny but you.  And like I said befor, you havent always been the nicest and most genteel polite understanding and giving guy/girl round hyere.
                 
                But if it makes you feel better and gets you to answer the question:
                 
                [image]http://olivebranchdaycare.net/images/index.1.gif[/image]

                • Unknown Member

                  Deleted User
                  September 30, 2013 at 6:48 am

                  Quote from CardiacEvent

                  But if it…gets you to answer the question…

                  You still don’t get it. Extending an olive branch is actually INSULTING if it expects a [i]quid pro quo.[/i] In that case it’s obviously insincere and serves merely as a ploy to get someone to do something for you. No wonder you’re sympathetic to the House GOP.
                   
                   

                  • Unknown Member

                    Deleted User
                    September 30, 2013 at 6:54 am

                    Even kpack has lowered himself to tell his story which is pretty much the quintessential American dream. If I were him I would be incredibly proud of it, and not hesitate to tell it. 
                     
                    No, I don’t get it, Lux. You seem to want to be angry about everything. I make a joke, youre mad. I make nice, your mad. I guess like many liberals you just want to be mad. Rebel without a cause and all that.  As for your “getting someone to do something for you”, that is kinda how I see you guys. You want me to cought up more and more and more tax to pay for stuff for someone else. Why is that right for you and not for anyone else?

  • angelesscalerandi

    Member
    September 30, 2013 at 6:19 am

    Conservatives are the most generous, when it comes to charity.  To say that they don’t want to help the poor is just ignorant.  Even those who do not have money to spare are more generous than the left of the same economic demographic.  
    I believe that the push to “help the poor” is more to build their own ego and has nothing to do with “helping” the poor.  Sure they feel sorry for them, although they don’t realize how condescending that is.  It is the “look at me, I am helping the poor”.  They are so determined to make themselves feel better they don’t even realize that they are actually hurting people who are able to care for themselves by making welfare a way of life.  
    The possibility of a better life should be something to strive for.

    • Unknown Member

      Deleted User
      September 30, 2013 at 6:29 am

      Gee, I guess you didn’t block me after all, K. Thanks.
       
      Very moving story, incredible really. Congrats on all you have accomplished. 
       
      I totally agree with your last line bout creating your own luck, about giving anonymously (I do that too) and really a LOT of the other points you made. Where we all seem to differ is that you and Frumious and the rest of you on that side of the spectrum want to dictate to ME how to spend MY earnings, sometimes with the excuse that the government gave it to me so I shouldn’t resent giving it back. It doesn’t fit with the rest of your narrative. 

      • Unknown Member

        Deleted User
        September 30, 2013 at 8:08 am

        [b]Where we all seem to differ is that you and Frumious and the rest of you on that side of the spectrum want to dictate to ME how to spend MY earnings, sometimes with the excuse that the government gave it to me so I shouldn’t resent giving it back. It doesn’t fit with the rest of your narrative.[/b]
         
        Honestly, I really don’t care what you do with your money.   But Taxes paid to the government is not your money it is not my money.  Its everyones money.  Taxes are for building roads bridges and schools.  Paying policeman and fireman and for the military.  
         
        We can argue about how tax dollars are spent
         
        I wasn’t a real fan of spending over 10 Trillion dollars for Iraqi freedom
         
        I am not a real fan of Subsidizing the farming Industry
         
        I am not a real fan of corporate welfare
         
         
        The money is out there and te politicians will spend it what we argue about is who and what they spend it on.
         
        [b]
        [/b]

        • Unknown Member

          Deleted User
          September 30, 2013 at 8:18 am

          Quote from kpack123

          [b]Where we all seem to differ is that you and Frumious and the rest of you on that side of the spectrum want to dictate to ME how to spend MY earnings, sometimes with the excuse that the government gave it to me so I shouldn’t resent giving it back. It doesn’t fit with the rest of your narrative.[/b]

          Honestly, I really don’t care what you do with your money.   But Taxes paid to the government is not your money it is not my money.  Its everyones money. 

           
          If we declare tax money everybodys money, then its a really easy step to declare YOUR money and My money [b]prior[/b] to payin tax everybodies money. See the problem? Very very very slippery slope. 

          • Unknown Member

            Deleted User
            September 30, 2013 at 8:34 am

            [b]If we declare tax money everybodys money, then its a really easy step to declare YOUR money and My money [b]prior[/b] to payin tax everybodies money. See the problem? Very very very slippery slope. [/b] 
             
            It is everyones money and we elect officials who decide how to spend it
             
            I dont always agree with how its spent
             
            You think that republicans are better stewards of this community pot.  I don’t
             
            I don’t agree with excessive military spending.   I don’t agree with corporate welfare or huge farm subsidies
             
            So therefore to you I am a commie or a socialist and you in my eyes are just a patsy for the puppeteers that pull the strings
             
             

            • Unknown Member

              Deleted User
              September 30, 2013 at 8:41 am

              Quote from kpack123

              [b]If we declare tax money everybodys money, then its a really easy step to declare YOUR money and My money [b]prior[/b] to payin tax everybodies money. See the problem? Very very very slippery slope. [/b] 

              It is everyones money and we elect officials who decide how to spend it

              I dont always agree with how its spent

              You think that republicans are better stewards of this community pot.  I don’t

              I don’t agree with excessive military spending.   I don’t agree with corporate welfare or huge farm subsidies

              So therefore to you I am a commie or a socialist and you in my eyes are just a patsy for the puppeteers that pull the strings

              The fundamental problem is that CardiacEvent actually believes that every cent in his gross paycheck is actually his, at least when it’s first cut. Nothing could be farther from the truth. It’s the classic “it’s our money” spin of the GOP. What they fail to realize is that historically, the lower the percentage you’re left with in your paycheck, the GREATER freedom you have as an American. Just look at the past few decades for all the evidence you need.
               
              The GOP has it all backwards, as usual. No wonder they put so much emphasis on “faith”. After all, hard evidence never seems to work in their favor.
               
               

              • Unknown Member

                Deleted User
                September 30, 2013 at 8:47 am

                I tend to side with the moderates from each party on most issues.
                 
                I think both parties are struggling with their fringes for control and the conservative Republican fringe is much more dangerous than the democratic liberal fringe

                • Unknown Member

                  Deleted User
                  September 30, 2013 at 9:31 am

                  Quote from kpack123

                  I tend to side with the moderates from each party on most issues.
                  I think both parties are struggling with their fringes for control and the conservative Republican fringe is much more dangerous than the democratic liberal fringe

                  Ditto. I voted for Reagan on his second term. 
                   
                   

    • kayla.meyer_144

      Member
      October 1, 2013 at 5:00 am

      Quote from Frumious

       

      Quote from KW818

       

      aldadoc…great post.   

      Frum, why do you get on here to insult people? The first post was really clear and yet you insist on just tearing everyone else’s beliefs apart. Seriously, why? Are you unable to articulate your thoughts and beliefs without being nasty and insulting? Are you really that miserable? 

       
      What insult? The belief that the government is stealing in order to give to lazy mooches? That has been posted by several many many times including by many no longer posting on AM or Off Topic. 
        
      Or is it the part that we earn our livings thanks largely in part to taxes, tax breaks & government pricing.

       
        
          I don’t think you’ve answered the question, KW. 

      • Unknown Member

        Deleted User
        October 1, 2013 at 5:11 am

        [b]  I don’t think you’ve answered the question, KW. [/b]
         
        Thats because he runs away when asked a question
         
        He can only ask them

        • kayla.meyer_144

          Member
          October 1, 2013 at 5:18 am

          Or make arguments without facts like supposedly scientists were predicting another Ice Age by 2000.
           
           

          • kayla.meyer_144

            Member
            October 1, 2013 at 5:21 am

            How about the remarkable stories from KW or mike or Alda too Anyone else? Silver spoons or just the cheap variety of stainless?

          • angelesscalerandi

            Member
            October 1, 2013 at 9:39 am

            This is the reason I don’t answer you. Apparently you are too ignorant to realize that I made an argument as to why some people might not be buying the current climate crisis and that I was not arguing the merits of the science.  You simply are too stupid to understand that or you want to argue for the sake of arguing.  I don’t know which but you wear me out with your idiotic, wilful disregard for what was actually typed.
             

            Quote from Frumious

            Or make arguments without facts like supposedly scientists were predicting another Ice Age by 2000.

            • kayla.meyer_144

              Member
              October 1, 2013 at 9:42 am

              Oh, that’s so mean of you! You’re a mean person, KW.

              • kayla.meyer_144

                Member
                October 1, 2013 at 9:52 am

                You presented no facts, then or now.

              • Unknown Member

                Deleted User
                October 1, 2013 at 9:57 am

                And he still didn’t answer
                 
                he just ran away from the argument like he always does
                 
                 

                • angelesscalerandi

                  Member
                  October 1, 2013 at 12:02 pm

                  poor frum. Still cant’ get over the fact that I am not arguing climate change.  Too stupid to see that wasn’t the argument.
                  I did not need to present scientific facts to prove that some people might not believe in the current climate crisis because they were told something different in the 70’s.  Why do you struggle with this so?? Don’t bother answering. You simply want to fight and whine.  Or show newspaper articles about aliens..whatever the hell that was about. 
                  You are the king of the ad hominem fallacious argument.  With Lux competing. I don’t think kpack can keep up. He is still struggling with irony and sarcasm.
                  here are the insults from this thread that I refer to and with that. finni.  Have a wonderful day.
                  “But then that is the sort of redistribution Cardiac supports, from the pockets of everyone into his.
                  Definition: Abusive ad hominem Fallacy – Insulting a Person to Dismiss their Arguments
                  ” I think you are fibbing and not speaking in reality.”
                  “You on the other hand unlike them & liberals, work hard & deserve all you have and more. There is no connection between your hated taxes and your living. The Government is not involved in any way in your income and earnings except to make it less in order to give it, “redistribute it” to the undeserving mooches. That’s what we haven’t figured out.”
                  see above definition (
                  Instead of showing where the people have made an error in any of their statements, the argument simply attacks them for who they are, and claims that we can dismiss anything said without even considering it. But in neither case is this objectionable fact related to the topic at hand – especially when these “objectionable” facts are just plain insults.
                  The proper way to evaluate the merits of an argument is by looking at what the argument says, not by distracting people’s attention from the argument by insulting the person and then, unreasonably, concluding that your insult is a good reason to dismiss the argument.)

                  • kayla.meyer_144

                    Member
                    October 1, 2013 at 1:14 pm

                    If you are going to quote me please get it right for a change. The reference to “fibbing” was about paying half his income in Federal taxes especially in light of he and the group giving away over $3 million in equipment and services. I suggested he hire an accountant to save his overpaying into the national Treasury. Thought I was doing him a favor. Or he is exaggerating to the point of “fibbing.”
                     
                    So do you pay 50% Federal taxes too KW?
                     

                    Quote from Frumious

                    “Please show me where and how the Federal government takes 50% of your taxes especially with you and your group giving away $3 million. You need an accountant very badly and it sounds like you are earning a bit more than average income of $50k. I think you are fibbing and not speaking in reality. “

                     
                    BTW, here is a web site to consult to help with your taxes in the event you are paying 50% and over.
                     
                    [link=http://whitecoatinvestor.com/doctors-dont-pay-50-of-their-income-in-taxes/]http://whitecoatinvestor….their-income-in-taxes/[/link]

                    • drmaryamgh

                      Member
                      October 1, 2013 at 1:26 pm

                      “the lower the percentage you’re left with in your paycheck, the GREATER freedom you have as an American” 
                      Lux, the allwise and all knowing, disagrees.

                    • Unknown Member

                      Deleted User
                      October 1, 2013 at 1:43 pm

                      Quote from radmike

                      “the lower the percentage you’re left with in your paycheck, the GREATER freedom you have as an American” 
                      Lux, the allwise and all knowing, disagrees.

                      What did I say that makes you believe that I disagree?!
                       
                       

  • kaldridgewv2211

    Member
    September 30, 2013 at 7:24 am

    Quote from CardiacEvent

    Heres the hard part…TRY to tell this without being snarky or saying bad stuff about the other side.

     
    Took all of about 2 replies before the saltyness comes out.

    • Unknown Member

      Deleted User
      September 30, 2013 at 7:28 am

      On all sides, if ya want to be fair about it.

      • kaldridgewv2211

        Member
        September 30, 2013 at 8:38 am

        Quote from CardiacEvent

        On all sides, if ya want to be fair about it.

         
        Saltyness in general not just pointing the finger at you.  Like whoever posted STFU as the very first reply, not a good way to start.

  • Unknown Member

    Deleted User
    September 30, 2013 at 7:47 am

    Quote from KW818

    give up on lux. he likes being angry, bitter and small. He is a waste of time.  He cannot post without insulting someone and still is so egotistical he thinks every post is aimed toward him.  I stopped answering him directly a while back.  He doesn’t make a point most of the time, just insults and assumes to know the motives and thoughts behind everyone else’s post not realizing how arrogant that is.  
    I am sure we will all get a verbose post now about how stupid I am or how I am embarrassing myself or blah, blah blah blah..
    or maybe he will go with the more mature retort of “get lost”. That is my favorite.

    I defy you to point out any recent post of mine that represents offense and not defense.
    You guys start the tussle and then go crying to mommy when your attacks are met with stern rebuttal.

    Stay out of the kitchen.

    • Unknown Member

      Deleted User
      September 30, 2013 at 7:58 am

      Well, heres your chance to make it better and you don’t want to. Everybodys loss, seems to me.

      • Unknown Member

        Deleted User
        September 30, 2013 at 8:18 am

        Quote from CardiacEvent

        Well, heres your chance to make it better and you don’t want to. Everybodys loss, seems to me.

        I simply do not recognize your authority to give me a [i]”chance to make it better”. [/i]
        I’m not the one who made it worse in the first place.
        And your lunacy with dead flowers, repeated baiting, and [i]quid pro quo [/i]strings attached is not helping one bit.  
         
         

  • eyoab2011_711

    Member
    September 30, 2013 at 10:11 am

    Government and other bureaucracies will always naturally trend to want to grow, and if left unchecked, growth will become its raison d’ etre until it becomes a parasite that kills the host.

    I believe that capitalism is the most efficient system to build wealth, when wealth is built, all boats rise. Businesses are built that employ people

     
    And here is the cognitive dissonance again.  All businesses to some extent are beaurocracies.  Some are ruled by totalitarians, some by “communists”  they are by definition microcosms of forms of government and should be expected to not be better or worse than govt.  Why there should be more faith in “business” is silly.  As we see in current culture, many corporations grow as their raison d’etre…it is a large component of the mergers and acquisitions business and forms a lot of the basis for Wall Street companies that create very little and shift paper around.  These are the end products of unregulated capitalism which by function leads to monopolies, crowding out of small business, wealth accumulation at the top and stagnation everywhere else.  We have accumulated more wealth on paper then any time before and yet the boats are not rising.
     
    I tend to be much more utilitarian.  Greatest good for greatest amount of people.  It should not always come down to what is one’s own self-interest.  I am also far more interested in what I can control for myself than what others are getting away with.  Rather than focus on the anecdotes of abuse in govt welfare programs I see the good that can be done.  No matter what system, there will be those who abuse and take advantage of it, but that isn’t necessarily good reason to punish everyone.  I believe we have a collective self-interest that should supercede individual self-interest and so I really don’t worry about a multi-millionaire being taxed a little more so that thousands can put healthier and more food on the tables; so that their children can be more alert in school and improve their level of education.  So that they don’t feel the need to turn to drugs or crime because there is no way out.  We need to look at the big picture, not anecdote.  I believe we should also more tightly regulate our govt programs but our businesses should be subject to the same degree of regulation that we expect of our govt.
     
     

    • drmaryamgh

      Member
      September 30, 2013 at 10:37 am

      “the lower the percentage you’re left with in your paycheck, the GREATER freedom you have as an American”
       
      The shark was jumped a while ago but this quote takes the cake

      • Unknown Member

        Deleted User
        September 30, 2013 at 10:42 am

        Quote from radmike

        “the lower the percentage you’re left with in your paycheck, the GREATER freedom you have as an American”
        The shark was jumped a while ago but this quote takes the cake

        Our heyday for a booming economy and civil liberties was during the ’60s when the maximum tax bracket was over 70%. 
        I’m not familiar with the jumped shark metaphor, but thanks for the cake.

        Your turn. 
         
         
         

        • drmaryamgh

          Member
          September 30, 2013 at 11:19 am

          I hope you maximize your freedom by donating all of your income to the IRS.  
          I’m sure they will spend it better than you.

          • eyoab2011_711

            Member
            September 30, 2013 at 11:39 am

            Nothing freer than a man with a gun and no cash…all sorts of options (if he can get off the couch from watching FoxNews)

            • Unknown Member

              Deleted User
              September 30, 2013 at 12:51 pm

              I honestly believe a lot of the posters on this forum thinks no one else works

              Through the years my least productive partners were the loudest complainers and honestly felt they worked the harder than everyone else despite the numbers shown them quarterly

              • angelesscalerandi

                Member
                September 30, 2013 at 12:54 pm

                I assume that everyone on this forum works, I don’t understand where you get that from. 
                I do find it odd that you accuse other people of not working and sitting here on aunt minnie all day when you have 10x as many posts as they do right there under your name.
                 
                You say others are on here complaining yet you are right in there doing the exact same thing.  
                 

                • Unknown Member

                  Deleted User
                  September 30, 2013 at 1:00 pm

                  Quote from KW818

                  I assume that everyone on this forum works, I don’t understand where you get that from. 
                  I do find it odd that you accuse other people of not working and sitting here on aunt minnie all day when you have 10x as many posts as they do right there under your name.
                  You say others are on here complaining yet you are right in there doing the exact same thing.  

                  You’re complaining. 
                   
                  ; )

                • Unknown Member

                  Deleted User
                  September 30, 2013 at 1:43 pm

                  Excuse me

                  Show me where I accused anyone of not working

                  That’s the right wingers who do that

                  You if I recall I accused of planting arguments then passive aggressively running away from them

                  • Unknown Member

                    Deleted User
                    September 30, 2013 at 1:46 pm

                    And I stand by what I said

                    Those who complain the loudest about people not working as hard as they do in my experience are usually individuals who are inefficient and slow an confuse time for work

                    They are usually inefficient or lazy

                    In my experience

  • angelesscalerandi

    Member
    September 30, 2013 at 1:59 pm

    tell me k with this post:
    [i]”I honestly believe a lot of the posters on this forum thinks no one else works  [/i]
    [i] Through the years my least productive partners were the loudest complainers and honestly felt they worked the harder than everyone else despite the numbers shown them quarterly” [/i]
    Where did anyone say they work harder than you?
    or was it you that said all of this?
    [i]”You are here all the time always saying your leaving and coming back with in hours or a day STFU no one likes you ” [/i]
    [i] “But seriously You are here all the time always telling everyone your just poppin in then saying your leaving Just leave……No one pays attention to you ” [/i]
    [i] Coming from a right wingnut in denial about who he is I’ll take that as a compliment   “I am definitely not smart like the conservatives on this forum I don’t work as hard the conservatives on this forum Im obviously living off the government dole and suckling the teat of entitlements Im probably  not even a Physician like you really smart conservatives ” [/i]
    [i] “All Jokes aside  This is what this forum has become.  Use to have some good conservative Posters, who could make a reasonable point try to substantiate it and give a good debate Today all the righties on the forum are just name calling baitors or passive agressive wannabees with nothing but party line rants So when in rome………………. “”Speaking for myself  and being honest.  I just really think you aren’t worth it Your sorta troll like always saying your just popping in and leaving when your here all the time Just not worth an exchange that requires thought ” [/i]
     
    Tell us, k..what is YOUR definition of baiting? You seem to think you don’t do that.
    Tell us what it is you mean by telling others they are here “all the time”? Are you insinuating they don’t work as hard as you?
    I say you are the very definition of hypocrisy.
     
     

    • Unknown Member

      Deleted User
      September 30, 2013 at 2:26 pm

      Not real concerned what you think me

      But again show me were I said no one here works

      What I said is the right wingers here on this forum think they work harder than everyone else

      I stand by that

      And I also stated IMHO those individuals who feel the need to inform the world how hard they work…… Usually are just inefficient

      And as per you…..,. You proved my point

      You start an argument then you run from it….. Especially when you can’t frame it

      • angelesscalerandi

        Member
        September 30, 2013 at 2:34 pm

        what argument did I start and run from? 
         
        forget it, don’t answer that. You have shown your emotional i.q repeatedly. I think I am done with you too. You want to do nothing but bait and tell people you don’t know what they think and how they believe and feel and toss insults like a jr high kid. 
        Don’t bother, you are right there with Lux now.

        • Unknown Member

          Deleted User
          September 30, 2013 at 2:40 pm

          Again

          I really don’t care what you think

          And I still think your creepy

  • Unknown Member

    Deleted User
    October 1, 2013 at 5:31 am

    Quote from Frumious

    So Cardiac, what is your remarkable story? Are you embarrassed? Born with a silver spoon in your mouth? I don’t recall you ever being exactly sweetness and light towards anyone on this board entitling you to be an abused martyr. Or is calling people communists a compliment in your neck of the woods. Or the usual falling back that anyone criticizing your entitled beliefs is just jealous of your wealth. Yeah, that works, everyone is just jealous of you. Why do so many of you entitled people fall back to the jealous defense?

    You have been a poster-boy of flippant snark.

    Told ya my views up front, but I’ll flesh it out, which I should have done at first. Born in the Southwest to middle class parents. They saved enough to put me through school. Went to private college and med school, lest you ding me for takin even MORE public funds. Dad fought in WWII, not wounded or anythin, thank Heaven. Mom was a homemaker, nothin out of the ordinary. one sibling, deceased from cancer. Just good old Midwestern type values, and I’m now in private practice in oneof the larger cities in Midwest.  Very strong on family values, personal responsibility, faith, and charity. Yes, I have guns and hunt some. 
     
    Now, Frumious, I’m not going to look through your 7000 posts, but I think most everyone who drops by here will agree that you boys aint’ been the nicest. Me king of snark? Maybe prince, but you guys are far better at the put down’s and condescension than I could ever hope to be. Don’t like bein called Communist? Sorry, that’s how you come across to me. Others milage might vary. Its not hard to assume jealosuy by the way when certain groups are alwaays askin for you to cough it up, at no expense to themselves.

    • kayla.meyer_144

      Member
      October 1, 2013 at 6:25 am

      Kinda light on the explanation & experience.

    • Unknown Member

      Deleted User
      October 1, 2013 at 6:35 am

      Quote from CardiacEvent

      Quote from Frumious

      So Cardiac, what is your remarkable story? Are you embarrassed? Born with a silver spoon in your mouth? I don’t recall you ever being exactly sweetness and light towards anyone on this board entitling you to be an abused martyr. Or is calling people communists a compliment in your neck of the woods. Or the usual falling back that anyone criticizing your entitled beliefs is just jealous of your wealth. Yeah, that works, everyone is just jealous of you. Why do so many of you entitled people fall back to the jealous defense?

      You have been a poster-boy of flippant snark.

      Told ya my views up front, but I’ll flesh it out, which I should have done at first. Born in the Southwest to middle class parents. They saved enough to put me through school. Went to private college and med school, lest you ding me for takin even MORE public funds. Dad fought in WWII, not wounded or anythin, thank Heaven. Mom was a homemaker, nothin out of the ordinary. one sibling, deceased from cancer. Just good old Midwestern type values, and I’m now in private practice in oneof the larger cities in Midwest.  Very strong on family values, personal responsibility, faith, and charity. Yes, I have guns and hunt some. 

      Now, Frumious, I’m not going to look through your 7000 posts, but I think most everyone who drops by here will agree that you boys aint’ been the nicest. Me king of snark? Maybe prince, but you guys are far better at the put down’s and condescension than I could ever hope to be. Don’t like bein called Communist? Sorry, that’s how you come across to me. Others milage might vary. Its not hard to assume jealosuy by the way when certain groups are alwaays askin for you to cough it up, at no expense to themselves.

      Jeez. there you go again! You STILL do not get it.
       
      There was no reason at all for that last paragraph if you REALLY were extending an olive branch and looking only for personal disclosure. But you just HAD to get in your digs.
       
      Where do you get the balls to ask people to expose their personal background in some fake claim that you are trying to reconcile, make amends, extend an olive branch, and yet there you go at every opportunity to dig, dig, dig instead of letting a few aftershocks get through. And so here is Frumious playing your game and telling you the personal story, but that’s STILL not good enough for you, and so there you go flapping your jibs as if you have no sense of responsibility to play by your own rules.
       
      You are a world class hypocrite. Hands down.
       
       

      • kayla.meyer_144

        Member
        October 1, 2013 at 6:41 am

        Actually, truth to be told, if I am jealous of anyone, it’s that Duck Dynasty family! DAMN!
         
        And that is said totally without snark. DAMN!
        [:D]

      • Unknown Member

        Deleted User
        October 1, 2013 at 6:43 am

        [b]There was no reason at all for that last paragraph if you REALLY were extending an olive branch and looking only for personal disclosure. But you just HAD to get in your digs. [/b]
         
        I think they  just view the world different. And because of this close mindedness if you will everyone who disagrees with them must fit their stereotype
         
         They are so wrapped up in themselves and the paranoia of They work harder………………People are out to get me…………………My tax dollars are my money not yours………..
         
         
        Several of these posters mentioned Mid west values…………..Yep I can see that.  Close minded and paranoid is a rural mid west trait.  The metro areas not as much

        • Unknown Member

          Deleted User
          October 1, 2013 at 7:00 am

          I think maybe we are all hypocrits here. No one is willing to budge, no one cares to understand why we think how we do, and YOU guys get mad when I ask about it.
           
          You call me snarky, I call you snarky back, and[i] I[/i] become the bad guy.  See any problem with that? Guess you hold me to a higher standard than yourselves. Thank you for that. 
           
          but don’t go slamming the Midwest.  Last month you were all snarking about the South. Guess you all hate every part of the US but the northeast and California, Blue States, right? Must be nice to love your country and hate bout half the people in it.
           
          I think you guys just want to be angry. Go for it. I’ve got a thick skin to go with my thick skull.

          • Unknown Member

            Deleted User
            October 1, 2013 at 7:06 am

            CardiacEvent, your posts are very very clear. Stop the BS. You are unable to play by your own rules. You don’t fool us in this OP with your olive branch bull. You are simply passive aggressive elitist scum and are rendered completely dysfunctional in an anonymous blog where you are stripped of all presumed authority and of any respect that you assume you are entitled to. You simply do not know how to EARN respect. Be gone, sweet prince.
             
             

            • Unknown Member

              Deleted User
              October 1, 2013 at 7:12 am

              I am [i]not [/i]scruffy, Princess!
               
              I do believe you proved my point just now.

              • Unknown Member

                Deleted User
                October 1, 2013 at 7:21 am

                Jeez, the “point” is that YOU have not proven that you really want to reconcile. You throw out bait asking people to disclose their personal situation, and when someone agrees to actually open up they get an immediate dig from you, including that you think they’re COMMUNISTS. You are pathetic and unworthy of thoughtful discourse.
                 
                 

            • kayla.meyer_144

              Member
              October 1, 2013 at 7:19 am

              I don’t think we’re whining about it, Cardiac, while you & KW are. We expect it. There are several who have been so “nice” that they’ve been banned or suspended. Funny, they also used the fall back position of accusing everyone of being jealous.
               
              I’ve been accused of being Communist and cheering for the death of Americans by the hands of terrorists on many occasions for many years now by several on your side of the political line.
               
              & yet I’m not nice.

              • Unknown Member

                Deleted User
                October 1, 2013 at 7:27 am

                Quote from Frumious

                I don’t think we’re whining about it, Cardiac, while you & KW are. We expect it. There are several who have been so “nice” that they’ve been banned or suspended. Funny, they also used the fall back position of accusing everyone of being jealous.

                I’ve been accused of being Communist and cheering for the death of Americans by the hands of terrorists on many occasions for many years now by several on your side of the political line.

                & yet I’m not nice.

                It’s unbelievable really. I didn’t fall for CE’s “olive branch” crap in this discussion, but I was curious so I waited in the reeds waiting to see what would happen to the first poor sot that took the bait. I respect you for weighing in, but knew damn well what would happen, and sure enough it did. The jerk unloaded both barrels. Well, at least it confirms he’s who we thought he was. I commend you, though, for erring on the side of nobility and calling his bluff. The irony is that he thought that HE was the one doing the smoke-out.
                 
                 

                • Unknown Member

                  Deleted User
                  October 1, 2013 at 7:40 am

                  You make it very clear you believe in an US vs. THEM scenario. I guess I do to by this point. Doubt that the Left and the Right can ever truly get along, based on this exchange. One side is mentally ill, I’m convinced. I think its yours you think its mine. Impass. 
                   
                  but you guys sure are incredibly angry. All the time. Must be kinda hard on the heart. Come see me for a cath sometime.

  • Unknown Member

    Deleted User
    October 1, 2013 at 7:25 am

    Never said I wanted to reconcile. Detente’, maybe. I wanted to understand what makes you guys think in a manner so completely opposite to me. Not sure I achieved that. To you, reconcilliation means surrender to your way of thinking, and kissing your butts when you make statements I can’t possibly stomach. AND I’m supposed to bend over and turn the other other cheeks when you start being nasty and snarky to me. 
    That won’t happen. Ever. And vice versa, I’m sure.  
     
    By the way, it isn’t particularly nice and genteel when you broadcast to the world that I’m a BAD DOCTOR because I don’t agree with your reasonin. Still slander, even to us computer algorithms. But I guess it’s OK if YOU say it.
      

    • kayla.meyer_144

      Member
      October 1, 2013 at 7:43 am

      Quote from CardiacEvent

      Never said I wanted to reconcile. Detente’, maybe. I wanted to understand what makes you guys think in a manner so completely opposite to me. Not sure I achieved that. To you, reconcilliation means surrender to your way of thinking, and kissing your butts when you make statements I can’t possibly stomach. AND I’m supposed to bend over and turn the other other cheeks when you start being nasty and snarky to me. 
      That won’t happen. Ever. And vice versa, I’m sure.  

      By the way, it isn’t particularly nice and genteel when you broadcast to the world that I’m a BAD DOCTOR because I don’t agree with your reasonin. Still slander, even to us computer algorithms. But I guess it’s OK if YOU say it.
       

      Actually I was looking for more than, “I have Midwestern values” as an answer. What does that mean? You get it by osmosis? No experience necessary. Life & experience doesn’t determine values, they come pre-installed.

      • Unknown Member

        Deleted User
        October 1, 2013 at 7:58 am

        In a way, you DO get values by osmosis. I learned them from my parents, mostly. I guess its too simple to be plausable to you, but that’s the way it is. Dad worked hard, VERY hard, we had few luxuries, decent house, that sort of thing. But heres one episode that might explain a few things. Dad had a friend when he was younger, well before WWII, who wanted him to go fight for the Communists in the Spanish Civil war. Dad didn’t want to go, of course. The friend came by just before Dad enlisted for WWII and cried and cried about some other friend that went to fight for Communism and died…”How could he have been so stupid as to go?” Dads friend cried. Dad learned, and I learned from him, that the Left is all about making other people do their dirty work for them. Lesson I never ever forgot.
         
        Y’now, I lived through all that stuff too, becoming aware of the outside world in the 60’s, much like you, Frumious. Like with Kpack, I am just boggled by how similar experiences can lead to such diffent thinking.

        • Unknown Member

          Deleted User
          October 1, 2013 at 8:13 am

          [b]Like with Kpack, I am just boggled by how similar experiences can lead to such diffent thinking. [/b]
           
           
          [b]but don’t go slamming the Midwest.  Last month you were all snarking about the South. Guess you all hate every part of the US but the northeast and California, Blue States, right? Must be nice to love your country and hate bout half the people in it. [/b]
           
          I think a lot of it is geographical.  I think the more rural of an area you live in the more small your world is, the more afraid you are of the boogeyman of the outside world.   There is less creativity in rural areas and more of the You need to conform to fit in mentality.
           
          Look at the electoral map…………it is rural versus urban and it is not just ethnicity its where you live.
           
          I have lived in both areas rural and urban Midwest North and south east.
           
          Personally when I am in the midwest I feel like closed in and almost claustrophobic……………and besides Midwestern food is bland and gravy filled and gross
           

           

           
           

          • Unknown Member

            Deleted User
            October 1, 2013 at 8:26 am

            Quote from kpack123

            ……………and besides Midwestern food is bland and gravy filled and gross

             
            On THAT I will agreee 100%! Except for steak. Thats pretty good around here.

        • kayla.meyer_144

          Member
          October 1, 2013 at 8:18 am

          Children accept blindly what Mom & Pop teach you because they have no experience. When they get out in the world the might modify some of those lessons to apply to the real observed world.
           
          My “good” neighbors in the South in the early 1960’s taught their children too. Most of those children should have grown out of those lessons, one hopes.
           
          [u]South Pacific[/u] had a song, “You Have To Be Carefully Taught.” My parents weren’t evil nor I assume were yours. My Southern neighbors did not think themselves evil either.
           
          Again experience should help shape those taught lessons to the real world.
           
          The lessons you learned as a child have never modified?
           
           
           
           

          • Unknown Member

            Deleted User
            October 1, 2013 at 8:28 am

            And speaking of Midwest values
             
            I own a small business with branches throughout Pensylvania West Virginia Ohio and VIrginia
             
            and IMHO the people of soutwestern Ohio cincy/kentucky area are the laziest most worthless individuals I have ever been around…… I ve had more issues with workers in this area than anywhere else.  They will try to get on disability in heartbeat.
             
            …………and I will say they don’t vote democrat either.
             

        • Unknown Member

          Deleted User
          October 1, 2013 at 8:21 am

          Quote from CardiacEvent

          You make it very clear you believe in an US vs. THEM scenario. I guess I do to by this point. Doubt that the Left and the Right can ever truly get along, based on this exchange. One side is mentally ill, I’m convinced. I think its yours you think its mine. Impass. 
           
          but you guys sure are incredibly angry. All the time. Must be kinda hard on the heart. Come see me for a cath sometime.

          Just so we’re clear, the data clearly shows that YOU, CardiacEvent, are the one that inflamed this into a hateful, angry discussion after [b]ONE[/b] person, kpack, pointed out a discrepancy in your [i]”dropping in and out of this joint”[/i] quip, and simply suggested that you STFU. That was [b]ONE[/b] comment (the FIRST comment to your OP, by the way) from [b]ONE[/b] person (kpack) directed to [b]ONE[/b] person (you). There was no group of people jumping on you getting all angry and hostile, calling anyone names. If it could be considered anger at all, it was only directed to you, no one else, and by a single person.
           
          You could have let that slide with a “Come on folks, I’m serious, let’s open up and get real with each other”. But NO…instead  YOU [i][u]immediately[/u][/i] lose it, and extrapolate in your selfish bigoted brain by invoking [i]”BEHOLD THE COMMUNISTS”[/i], [b]plural[/b], along with [i]”free speech is only for THEM”,[/i] [b]plural[/b], and [i]”ANYONE who disagrees should stfu”[/i], [b]plural[/b], when kpack wasn’t saying anything about “anyone” else but YOU. And then you go into your vile diatribe, all in response to four simple letters “STFU”.
           
          And so YOU started the skirmish by not following your own OP rules, but rather obviously playing the bigot card, condemning an [i][u]entire population[/u][/i] you claimed in your OP that you wanted to extend an olive branch to! All in response to a [b]single[/b] entry which was the [b]VERY FIRST [/b]reply to your OP.
           
          You’re damn right I’m angry. I’m angry at bigots and elitists who believe they are entitled to credibility and respect they haven’t earned.
           

  • Unknown Member

    Deleted User
    October 1, 2013 at 9:26 am

    Quote from kpack123

     

    And speaking of Midwest values 

    I own a small business with branches throughout Pensylvania West Virginia Ohio and VIrginia 

    and IMHO the people of soutwestern Ohio cincy/kentucky area are the laziest most worthless individuals I have ever been around…… I ve had more issues with workers in this area than anywhere else.  They will try to get on disability in heartbeat. 

    …………and I will say they don’t vote democrat either. 

     
    Tell me why this is less prejudicial (racist) than if I substituted, oh, I dunno, [i]Blacks[/i], or [i]JEWS[/i], or [i]native Americans[/i], or[i]Liberals [/i]or [i]Communists[/i]… You boys would bust an aneurysm if I did that.  
     

    • Unknown Member

      Deleted User
      October 1, 2013 at 9:31 am

      [b]Tell me why this is less prejudicial (racist) than if I substituted, oh, I dunno, [i]Blacks[/i], or [i]JEWS[/i], or [i]native Americans[/i], or[i]Liberals [/i]or [i]Communists[/i]… You boys would bust an aneurysm if I did that.   [/b]
       
      First off, I really wouldn’t care.
       
      Secondly, I brought it up because of the Midwestern values discussion…………..and it don’t get no more midwest than cincy And what I said has nothing to do with ethnicity or religious beliefs.
       
      Simply put its about lazy people
       
       
      I own a business that has branches in 4 states.  The southwestern Ohio 2 branches are by far my most difficult to manage and staff because of the reasons I gave.  
       
      It is what it is

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