[Unknown Member]

seems too narrow to me.   Expand your pool to all doctors.  Private equity has actually hurt emergency medicine and anesthesiology worse than us.  Health industry is very profitable in america, thats why amazon and warren buffett are getting into it as complicated as it is.  Im not sure what took private equity so long to get into radiology.  

[katiemckee84_223]

I see this as an inevitability
 
The greed and lobbying from hospitals has caused this, they can only blame themselves.
 
It is one thing to claim that you are making money because of a great idea or product, and even those get eventually anti-trust movements against them, but this is using heavily taxed national structures to make large profits, and physicians are the critical components, only 10% of costs?
 
I’m sorry, you tell people “we just need you for your license” and you’re surprised this kind of movement happens? I don’t consider large, public money as part of a market in “Capitalism”

[erasmopa]

I fully support the idea of radiologists unionizing. Your target should be all radiologists.

Radiology needs a union more than any other medical specialty. That is because there is no defined cap on how much work a rad can be asked to do. An anesthesiologist is legally limited in how many rooms they can supervise at once. Other physicians are limited by the length of time for a scheduled visit, and of course they can only be asked to see one patient at a time.

Only rads can be asked to care for multiple patients at once, answer phones simultaneously, and have no idea how much work they will do in a given day. All you know as a rad is that no matter how much work there is you have to get it done.

I am serious when I say it is an issue both of protecting rads and protecting patients. I like radiology, but it is ridiculous that there is no limit to how much work we can be forced to do in a day when the stakes are so high.

[ljohnson_509]

^ + 1000. No limits to rad work is insane.

[Riquelme10]

YES! Unionize

[katiemckee84_223]

Ok, my question is, how long or what does it take for this to be a real movement? Obviously, we’re just chatting about this on an anonymous board.

[Unknown Member]

I look forward to the angry threads about having to pay union dues, how the union isnt looking out for rads interests enough, how union leaders are paid too much and whether or not rads can opt out of the union.

[g.giancaspro_108]

Or you could run a private practice and make these control decisions yourself.

[Unknown Member]

I look forward to the angry threads about having to buy into private practice, how PP isnt looking out for rads interests enough, and how PP partners get paid too much.

[Unknown Member]

A concern with a rad union is that it might cement the status of corporations in radiology.

One would need to build a union infrastructure. Negotiators, admin staff for the union. Whatever deal they negotiate with corporations vanishes if the corporations dissolve. The utility of the union vanishes is corporations dissolve. And rads WANT those corporations to dissolve, or at least that is frequently wished for here.

So right off the bat, the rad union admin has a different goal than the radiologists themselves. The union wants their corporate negotiating dance partner to stick around so that the rad union retains its purpose.

So that would lead to some the union is in bed with private equity suspicions.

In the end, this is about abdicating responsibility for ones career and field to someone else. Whether theres a union or whatever, dont be surprised if the person you abdicate to does something that serves their interests as well as or possibly instead of yours.

[Unknown Member]

I don’t think there are enough rads in the USA in a situation for it to be beneficial for them to unionize.

[katiemckee84_223]

Quote from radgrinder

A concern with a rad union is that it might cement the status of corporations in radiology.

One would need to build a union infrastructure. Negotiators, admin staff for the union. Whatever deal they negotiate with corporations vanishes if the corporations dissolve. The utility of the union vanishes is corporations dissolve. And rads WANT those corporations to dissolve, or at least that is frequently wished for here.

So right off the bat, the rad union admin has a different goal than the radiologists themselves. The union wants their corporate negotiating dance partner to stick around so that the rad union retains its purpose.

So that would lead to some the union is in bed with private equity suspicions.

In the end, this is about abdicating responsibility for ones career and field to someone else. Whether theres a union or whatever, dont be surprised if the person you abdicate to does something that serves their interests as well as or possibly instead of yours.

 
These are good points, and there would be “rich” union leaders, but think about the current system. Thousands of admins making crazy money off of physicians left and right. Maybe it’s not the right decision, but the way it has turned out it has only been good for about 2 generations of docs.
 
There are a lot of spinoff discussions, and I’m interested in having them, we’d just have to bring them up and go through all of the issues at hand.
 
My idea is that most, outside of the last remnants of the docs who were born at the right time, are going to be employees in our lifetimes, anyway.

[g.giancaspro_108]

I think we can avoid that situation, most radiologists becoming employees, if we choose.

[Unknown Member]

This is effectively what our professional organizations like the ABR and ACR are supposed to do: lobby for the benefit of the radiologists. Sometimes, however, it seems that the organizations are in it for themselves, ie. controversy over MOC.
 
I’m sure if there were unions it would devolve into the same thing.
 
The best way to preserve RADS autonomy would be to limit the number of training spots. That way nobody would be forced to take an unattractive job they didn’t want.

[katiemckee84_223]

^ Great response.
 
And another ACR failure, to boot.
 
I remember talking to Bibb Allen about it over 5 years ago at an after hours party during RSNA week. Of course he, like many of the other ACR (Read: academics) had some pre-canned line about physician shortages, health care system, etc. when in reality we all knew they didn’t want us taking overnight slave labor from them or their friends.
 
Oh, [link=https://www.radiologybusiness.com/topics/leadership/3-key-takeaways-bibb-allen%E2%80%99s-acr-presidential-address]look what I just found[/link] on a Bibb Allen search to make sure he was still in the field:
 
“Whether it is in a radiology organization or in a radiology practice, in an academic center or a small community hospital, on Fifth Avenue or on Main Street in middle America, keeping our [s]patients at the center of what we do[/s] [i][b]numbers low[/b][/i] as a principal strategy for our organizations and practices is key for radiologists to demonstrate their value in health care, Allen said that night. And I firmly believe that letting what is best for our patients guide our decision making will ensure a bright future for our practices and our specialty because using our knowledge and our tools to improve the health and care of our patients is our primary goal.”
 
There, fixed it for you, Billy Bob BibbAllen. You’ve spent far too many years in those meetings. It’s as if patients a) really care or know, and more importantly from a strategic point of view, if you haven’t noticed b) the system of admins and overseers wants to lord it over us with this kind of speech so they can keep us from countering how progressively worse it gets for us. You better work more, harder, faster! blah blah blah blah
 
“Patient care”
 
Don’t you feel bad now? Ok, get back to work, sucker!
 
LOL

[mariacardei7_785]

Quote from Intermittent Blasting

^ Great response.

And another ACR failure, to boot.

I remember talking to Bibb Allen about it over 5 years ago at an after hours party during RSNA week. Of course he, like many of the other ACR (Read: academics) had some pre-canned line about physician shortages, health care system, etc. when in reality we all knew they didn’t want us taking overnight slave labor from them or their friends. 
  

 
Allen is in a small PP group in AL

[katiemckee84_223]

Tell me why he supports expanding radiology spots, then, please do tell

[raddoc77]

I’m surprised it has taken this long for someone on this Board to suggest unionization.  Even if you’re not an employed physician, most all of us are de facto employees of an insurance company.  I think though, that doctors are prohibited by law from engaging in collective bargaining.  Look at http://www.uapd.com.

[raddoc77]

Something will eventually give, though.  The Nurse’s unions have brought many a hospital to their knees.  But if you think it’s bad for radiologists, join the Physician Side Gigs closed group on Facebook and see the shitty wages and conditions many hospitalists and employed IM docs work under.  A sad epitaph for what was once a very rewarding profession in many ways.

[Unknown Member]

Yeah, did you see the big strike of nurses in Chicago today?

[Unknown Member]

I see this thread is a few years old; however I would like to revisit the idea of forming a radiologist union to help out rads who have been feeling the weight of these increasingly desperate PE backed groups. There are many of us trapped by unreasonable noncompetes and other departure policies that make it virtually impossible to leave.  

[william.wang_997]

If u limit the number of rads….The studies will pile up and noctors will be hired…excatly why derm and ER and internal medicine got their noctors. We don’t have pile ups, so there is no need for noctors. If there are less rads churning out…..we are toast, I can guarantee u that !