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Trump says American War Dead are “Losers”
[h1]Trump Said Americans Who Died in War Are Losers[/h1]
[link=https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/09/trump-americans-who-died-at-war-are-losers-and-suckers/615997/]The Atlantic[/link]: When President Trump canceled a visit to the Aisne-Marne American Cemetery near Paris in 2018, he blamed rain for the last-minute decision, saying that the helicopter couldnt fly and that the Secret Service wouldnt drive him there. Neither claim was true.Trump rejected the idea of the visit because he feared his hair would become disheveled in the rain, and because he did not believe it important to honor American war dead, according to four people with firsthand knowledge of the discussion that day.
In a conversation with senior staff members on the morning of the scheduled visit, Trump said, Why should I go to that cemetery? Its filled with losers. In a separate conversation on the same trip, Trump referred to the more than 1,800 marines who lost their lives at Belleau Wood as suckers for getting killed.
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159 Replies
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Trump denies the report, while simultaneously denying that he ever called John McCain a loser.
Pro tip – If you want to deny a story, don’t do it at the same time you overtly lie in your denial about a [i]different[/i] story that can be easily proven
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I never called John a loser and swear on whatever, or whoever, I was asked to swear on, that I never called our great fallen soldiers anything other than HEROES.President Trump, denying on Twitter on 9/3/20 that he ever called Sen. John McCain a loser.
He was a war hero because he was captured I like people who werent captured He lost and let us down. Ive never liked him as much after that. I dont like losers.
Trump, quoted by [link=https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/07/18/424169549/trump-lashes-out-at-mccain-i-like-people-who-werent-captured]NPR[/link], talking about McCain in July 2015.
[link=https://twitter.com/MeidasTouch/status/1301723076552306688?s=20]https://twitter.com/MeidasTouch/status/1301723076552306688?s=20[/link]Here’s you calling McCain a loser in a tweet pic.twitter.com/CmGsSKGt7u
— MeidasTouch (@MeidasTouch) September 4, 2020
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Obvious fabrication is obvious.
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[link=https://twitter.com/byronyork/status/1301851565465186311?s=21]https://twitter.com/byron…01851565465186311?s=21[/link]
This is great! Side by side comparison of the Atlantic story and Boltons book talking about the same morning.
The Atlantic is a rag. Theyll miss Trump in 12 years though; publishing something bad about him is an easy way to grift more money from their subscribers, especially when its a made up tale.
The opening to the much-discussed Atlantic article, and the same events as described in John Bolton's memoir. https://t.co/1PQQXY8eoJ pic.twitter.com/JS32FJx9Ez
— Byron York (@ByronYork) September 4, 2020
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Yep… next exaggerated, over blown story? “Trump hates Poodles”! because Poodles come in different colors! F’n Dog Racist!
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Quote from CudaRad
Yep… next exaggerated, over blown story? “Trump hates Poodles”! because Poodles come in different colors! F’n Dog Racist!
he supposedly hates dogs and thinks that’s an insult to call someone a dog. No current White House dog. At least the Obamas had hypo-allergenic dogs.
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Looks like more is breaking on this and it appears it is a hit job by the media. John Bolton contacted by press. He was at meeting and told reporter it never happened. As OP said he wrote about the cancellation in his book and never claimed Trump said those words. WH released emails that show he did not go to cemetery because of weather conditions. It was 1.5 – 2 hour drive and chopper could not fly due to weather. Trip was cancelled.
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Yeah, THE world leader could not attend while everyone else was somehow able to make it.
Yeah, “the rain” forced the cancellation.
Sounds more than reasonable. 2 hours drive! Impossible.-
Its fun watching Democrats try to reconcile the Bolton lies and the Atlantic lies.
Poor Dergon and Frumi. They spend all that money on subscriptions to magazines that disdain them with regular and ongoing fictions.
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How do you reconcile him tweeting about how he never called McCain a loser with a video of him calling MCain a loser? Oh he also tweeted an article about DJT calling McCain a loser. It just doesnt work. Hes lying about something so easily to debunk.
Donald J Bonespur
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
How do you reconcile him tweeting about how he never called McCain a loser with a video of him calling MCain a loser? Oh he also tweeted an article about DJT calling McCain a loser. It just doesnt work. Hes lying about something so easily to debunk.
Yep. Like I said… if you want to deny a story, you’re better off not simultaneously also denying a separate story (that no one was talking about before you brough it up btw) that is easily provable as true. It makes your already low credibility/truthfulness take another hit and makes people more like to believe that first story you were initially denying.
Other news outlets
[link=https://www.syracuse.com/us-news/2020/09/fox-news-confirms-trump-mocked-us-troops-as-suckers-biden-calls-him-a-disgrace.html]Fox News[/link], the [link=https://apnews.com/b823f2c285641a4a09a96a0b195636ed]Associated Press[/link], the [link=https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/04/us/politics/trump-veterans-losers.html]New York Times[/link] and the [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-said-us-soldiers-injured-and-killed-in-war-were-losers-magazine-reports/2020/09/03/6e1725cc-ee35-11ea-99a1-71343d03bc29_story.html]Washington Post[/link] have also corroborated various parts of The Atlantic’s reporting. CNN independently corroborates this morning as well. -
What was the thing about McCain? If it was the whole captured thing, that was clearly a joke. Here:
[link]https://youtu.be/eLK55ToScRg[/link]
Skip to 3:20. Its a famous Chris Rock sketch.
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Seems Fox reporter Griffin is standing her ground despite being thrown under the bus by her own network:
[link=https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/fox-news-denies-own-reporter-confirmed-trump-used-suckers-and-losers-1055782/]https://www.rollingstone.com/politic…osers-1055782/[/link]
[i]Fox News is having a hard time covering the presidents … following The Atlantics reporting that claims Trump harshly disparaged the military mostly because their own reporter has confirmed much of what the report said.
On Saturday morning, following a late Friday night tweet from the president calling on Fox News to fire her, the networks national security correspondent Jennifer Griffin told host Neil Cavuto that Trump did indeed use the sort of language The Atlantics Jeffrey Goldberg said the president had.
After being asked about The Atlantics framing of Trumps comments, Griffin told Cavuto that she double-checked with her sources this morning and they reconfirmed both Goldbergs reporting and her own.
Well, I circled back with my source this morning and he firmly said this was not a one-off, Griffin said, adding that Trump used, according to my source, he used suckers and that term repeatedly to describe McCain and anyone who went to Vietnam.
Griffin continued, He always described according to the source Vietnam vets as those who couldnt get out of it. And he would often say to his advisers when they suggested that he would go to visit the war dead, What is it about you guys and guys who get killed? So, he used losers. Thats a big part of the presidents vernacular. I think anyone whos been around him knows that.
On Friday during Fox News The Five, the hosts, with a total disregard for their own networks reporting, called the story a hoax and a scam. And later, Fox News chief political news anchor Bret Baier reported on the story with a chyron that read: Fake News.[/i]
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As a Fox reporter corroborates The Atlantic story, she is attacked by Trump & defended by her Fox colleagues of all people.
[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/05/opinion/sunday/coronavirus-nursing-homes-deaths.html]https://www.nytimes.com/2…sing-homes-deaths.html[/link]Jennifer Griffin caused an unexpected media firestorm Friday when she did something fairly routine for a reporter: A competitor had broken a story on her beat, so she set out to see whether she could match it.
In this case, it was [link=https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/09/trump-americans-who-died-at-war-are-losers-and-suckers/615997/]the Atlantics blockbuster report[/link] that President Trump had made disparaging remarks about veterans. Griffin, a national security correspondent for Fox News, found sources to validate key aspects of the story, sharing her reporting on Twitter and on anchor Bret Baiers news show.
Other beat reporters had confirmed aspects of the Atlantic story, too. But the fact that Griffin works for Fox, whose opinion hosts and corporate owners are seen as reliable supporters and defenders of the president, turned her revelations into a watershed development. It led to Trumps call for her firing late Friday on Twitter and an impassioned pushback from Fox News colleagues defending her journalistic honor.
In a nine-tweet thread Friday afternoon, Griffin cited two unnamed former senior administration officials who she said confirmed for her many key aspects of Atlantic Editor in Chief Jeffrey Goldbergs story about Trumps cancellation of a trip to Aisne-Marne American Cemetery while visiting Paris in 2018.[blockquote] Two former sr Trump admin officials confirm .[link=https://twitter.com/JeffreyGoldberg?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw]@JeffreyGoldberg[/link] reporting that President Trump disparaged veterans and did not want to drive to honor American war dead at Aisne-Marne Cemetery outside Paris.
Jennifer Griffin (@JenGriffinFNC) [link=https://twitter.com/JenGriffinFNC/status/1301975321495973889?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw]September 4, 2020[/link][/blockquote]According to one former senior Trump administration official: When the President spoke about the Vietnam War, he said, It was a stupid war. Anyone who went was a sucker, [link=https://twitter.com/JenGriffinFNC]she wrote[/link]. When asked IF the President could have driven to the Aisne-Marne Cemetery, this former official said confidently: The President drives a lot. The other world leaders drove to the cemeteries. He just didnt want to go.
Later, she noted on Baiers Special Report show that she was unable to confirm the most salacious allegation, in Goldbergs story, that the president described the American war dead at the Aisne-Marne Cemetery as suckers and losers.
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Two former sr Trump admin officials confirm .@JeffreyGoldberg reporting that President Trump disparaged veterans and did not want to drive to honor American war dead at Aisne-Marne Cemetery outside Paris.
— Jennifer Griffin (@JenGriffinFNC) September 4, 2020
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[b][b]Admiral James Stavridis[/b] (Ret) Calls on Mattis & Kelly to Speak Up[/b]
Stavridis spoke with Brian Kilmeade about a report out of The Atlantic that President Trump said Americans who died in war are “losers” and “suckers”. Stavridis feels this is a serious allegation and wants to see either General Kelly or General Mattis make a statement either confirming or denying this because if true.
[link=https://radio.foxnews.com/2020/09/04/admiral-james-stavridis-ret-it-is-incumbent-for-generals-kelly-mattis-to-either-confirm-or-deny-president-trump-called-americans-who-died-in-war-losers-suckers/]https://radio.foxnews.com…in-war-losers-suckers/[/link]
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[link=https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/06/media/jeffrey-goldberg-atlantic-trump-reliable-sources/index.html?utm_source=twcnnbrk&utm_content=2020-09-06T16%3A42%3A14&utm_term=link&utm_medium=social]https://www.cnn.com/2020/…&utm_medium=social[/link]
The Atlantic’s editor-in-chief says his story about Trump calling vets ‘losers’ is just the beginning[/h1]Jeffrey Goldberg, editor-in-chief of The Atlantic, said his magazine’s [link=https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/05/politics/trump-marines-cemetery-france/index.html]story[/link] about Trump calling Americans who died in battle “losers” and “suckers,” was just the tip of the iceberg.
“I would fully expect more reporting to come out about this and more confirmation and new pieces of information in the coming days and weeks,” Goldberg told CNN’s Chief Media Correspondent Brian Stelter on “Reliable Sources” Sunday. “We have a responsibility and we’re going to do it regardless of what he says.”
The magazine received backlash — from Trump and many others — for attributing the information to four anonymous sources. CNN has [link=https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/05/politics/trump-marines-cemetery-france/index.html]confirmed several aspects[/link] of The Atlantic’s reporting, also with sources who chose to remain anonymous.
But Goldberg said that’s how the media is able to do its job of uncovering stories that take place behind closed doors.”We all have to use anonymous sources, especially in a climate where the president of the United States tries to actively intimidate,” Goldberg said of his editorial decision to cite nameless people. “These are not people who are anonymous to me.”[/QUOTE]
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Well, if CNN confirms it, it must be true !
That means it is almost as reliable as the information that started the impeachment .
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The fun part comes when everyone realizes that the tactic of you can make stuff up with anonymous sources and say anything you want has been put on the table.
Whats good for the goose can be good for the gander.
At least 2 months to go. We wont be sure what is real soon.
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Quote from dergon
[link=https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/06/media/jeffrey-goldberg-atlantic-trump-reliable-sources/index.html?utm_source=twcnnbrk&utm_content=2020-09-06T16%3A42%3A14&utm_term=link&utm_medium=social]https://www.cnn.com/2020/…&utm_medium=social[/link]
The Atlantic’s editor-in-chief says his story about Trump calling vets ‘losers’ is just the beginning
Jeffrey Goldberg, editor-in-chief of The Atlantic, said his magazine’s [link=https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/05/politics/trump-marines-cemetery-france/index.html]story[/link] about Trump calling Americans who died in battle “losers” and “suckers,” was just the tip of the iceberg.
“I would fully expect more reporting to come out about this and more confirmation and new pieces of information in the coming days and weeks,” Goldberg told CNN’s Chief Media Correspondent Brian Stelter on “Reliable Sources” Sunday. “We have a responsibility and we’re going to do it regardless of what he says.”
The magazine received backlash — from Trump and many others — for attributing the information to four anonymous sources. CNN has [link=https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/05/politics/trump-marines-cemetery-france/index.html]confirmed several aspects[/link] of The Atlantic’s reporting, also with sources who chose to remain anonymous.
But Goldberg said that’s how the media is able to do its job of uncovering stories that take place behind closed doors.”We all have to use anonymous sources, especially in a climate where the president of the United States tries to actively intimidate,” Goldberg said of his editorial decision to cite nameless people. “These are not people who are anonymous to me.”[/QUOTE]
Coordinated media…assemble!
In all seriousness though, I view this as a firework show…there are trickles of lame stuff, then a burst every once in awhile and then bam, there’s going to be a media finale to prevent Trump from winning. I have no doubt they have 4 years of stuff waiting in the wings to bring out in their typical DNC-Mainstream media blitz.
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
Quote from CudaRad
Yep… next exaggerated, over blown story? “Trump hates Poodles”! because Poodles come in different colors! F’n Dog Racist!
he supposedly hates dogs and thinks that’s an insult to call someone a dog. No current White House dog. At least the Obamas had hypo-allergenic dogs.
Well… I’d like a Dog, but the Queen of my House is a Cat Lover. She set’s the rules. Maybe it’s Milanias’s fault? I did hear that people of the Middle of the East find Dogs… Evil and fear them a bunch.
Either way, the story is bunk, made up, a childish attempt to find anything. that was my point. The left Media’s re reaching for straws and making false claims of thin air yet, support and promote the killing of innocent, unborn black children by keeping their silence on the topic when brought up.-
I dont think General
Kelley makes up stuffAs I said before trump is not popular with the military
I posted the military times poll above that shows this
Overwhelmingly my friends who I served proudly with think he is unfit to lead
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Quote from Chirorad84
I dont think General
Kelley makes up stuffAs I said before trump is not popular with the military
I posted the military times poll above that shows this
Overwhelmingly my friends who I served proudly with think he is unfit to lead
Ok, now you believe Kelley, of Course Bolten states that Kelley made the decision to call it off due to the Weather.
Which one do you believe? Where else has the President not honored our Troops and Fallen Hero’s. I bet you’ve said a few things about your commanders and higher ranks before haven’t you. What a bad insubordinate you must have been. Well I can tell you my family members that are still serving… Love him. When did you leave and why if it was so great during your time?
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Hardly a refutation
[b]Bolton Says Trump Remarks on Military Despicable If Accurate[/b]
These comments are despicable. If he made them, they are despicable, Bolton said in a Bloomberg Radio interview on Friday.
[link=https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-04/bolton-says-trump-remarks-on-military-despicable-if-accurate]https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic…le-if-accurate[/link]
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I left the Air Force in 2016 for family reasons and to
Get into private practice -
Lol Bolton.
Biden punched a baby and then ate its pancreas for lunch.
This is despicable if accurate.
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Pretty hard to deny it when you see the twitter link
He called McCain a loser
Its pretty obvious thats how he feels
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The twitter link with video is right there to view
Not much to argue about
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Fox News Confirms Trump Disparaged Veterans
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Two former senior Trump administration officials confirmed to Fox News that President Trump regularly disparaged veterans.
According to one former senior Trump administration official: When the President spoke about the Vietnam War, he said, It was a stupid war. Anyone who went was a sucker.
He added: Whats in it for them? They dont make any money.
Explained the source: It was a character flaw of the President. He could not understand why someone would die for their country, not worth it.
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And not a soul brave enough to put their words on the accusation. Well, if they did say who they were and where it happened, inevitably the other people who were in the room during that meeting would pipe up and say that they were there when the very memorable and controversial comment supposedly happened, but nothing actually occurred.
For instance, John Bolton was there and he certainly would have mentioned such a thing.
Much better to simply say that anonymous sources said this happened at a time and place that no one will describe, so that no one can confirm, dispute, or otherwise take responsibility for the obviously fabricated story.-
Re Bolton – he is *not* refuting the story.
John Bolton said that while he didnt hear President Trump disparage troops, the reported comments in The Atlantic werent out of character. I havent heard anybody yet react to say, Thats not the Donald Trump I know, he said.
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I have been friends with Colonel Brian McCollough since childhood. He is a West Point grad and just last yeah retired from military service. I have not shared his name before (though some of you have had his words mentioned inPMs I have sent)
here is what he wrote today:
I have been asked about this article…do i believe it…and what to do.
I served on active duty under the Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama and Trump Administrations. The last 17 months of 29.5 years with the current Administration…at the White House’s 18 acre compound. As a commissioned officer I took an oath to uphold the Constitution itself, and not one person. For my last 18 years I watched my family move, sacrifice and serve with me – i’d like to think that my oath and their sacrifices mattered.
What i saw (in real time) during my last 17 months of service was a descent into disrespect for veterans and those still in uniform — if troops/veterans didn’t participate in events paying homage to the Administration (parades, Marines/Pilots in campaign videos, etc), then the Service (serving overseas and even in the White House) itself was often deemed less than worthy.
Yesterday’s Atlantic article, confirmed now by several news outfits, lays out in plain terms a growing sentiment of current U.S. troops. Today the Administration announced Stars and Stripes, a Soldiers lifeline while on deployment, would close (coincidentally there was an uncomplimentary poll of the Troops for the current Administration last week)….this is tragic for our troops but par for the course on what i’m saying. Look through the trees, you’ll see the pattern and the forest.
What to do – reflect, vote once, and perform service for others without seeking thanks.
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2020 was the year Democrats ran a coordinated scam on military families to win an election. Does it get lower than that?
Do you think your friend will change his mind about Trump as the story goes through the debunking process?
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For instance, General Kellogg:
The Atlantic story is completely false. Absolutely lacks merit. Ive been by the Presidents side. He has always shown the highest respect to our active duty troops and veterans with utmost respect paid to those who have given the ultimate sacrifice and those wounded in battle.
Note to Chiro: generals outrank colonels. Thats something people whove been in the military know.
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[link=https://twitter.com/joebiden/status/1301913914922299393?s=21]https://twitter.com/joebi…01913914922299393?s=21[/link]
Lol, Biden and the Democrats had ads written, directed & produced – with the ad buy (!) within minutes of the alleged Trump quote dropping.
Why its almost as if they knew a fabricated story allegedly occurring in 2018 was coming, and they used footage of soldiers and cemeteries as part of their obvious lie.
I wonder if dergons friend cares about the images of soldiers and their graves being used so terribly. Probably not.
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Coordinated media…assemble!
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Anonymous sources are reporting that Trump is an alien who used to eat babies on his home planet.
CNN is confirming that yes indeed, someone else anonymously said this at some point.
Trumps alien status is therefore confirmed.
Is this the new birther hoax? How ironic…
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Isn’t Bolton the new beacon of truth for the democratic party ? The man hates trump with every fiber in his body, if he says it didn’t happen, it didn’t happen.
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[link=https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/08/31/as-trumps-popularity-slips-in-latest-military-times-poll-more-troops-say-theyll-vote-for-biden/]https://www.militarytimes…theyll-vote-for-biden/[/link]
Biden leads trump in military times poll
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An amusing sentence from the New York Times: Mr. Kelly refused on-the-record interview requests about his recollection of comments Mr. Trump had reportedly made when Mr. Kelly was with him on a 2018 trip to France.
That makes it seem Kelly has been more than willing to talk off the-record.
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Ha! Good point, dergon. Probably true.
Former employee willing to anonymously talk crap about ex-boss
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I just read the article from the Atlantic. So many sources and yet those that it stated or made reference to, declined to verify any sort. Secondly, it went on a diatribe of the Trump McCain thing. Yes, I thought that was disrespectful to him. No excuses even though, McCain was at the time throwing darts at Trump during the campaigning and I can only see it as a I’ll hit you back tactic. Again, I read no proof nor accuracy but only speculation. I saw Bolton on Fox and he very much stated the reason for not going to the area. He did not mention anything at all about him commenting badly about troops of the past. He stated, Trump Couldn’t fly there, it was almost 4 hours back and forth and no safe routes for safety for the President in case something did happen to an from.
Understanding that the Vietnam war, though promoted and pushed heavily buy democrats had many fleeing and dodging. I remember people asking why are we there? My parents were Kennedy / Johnson Dems and questioned the reasoning. I still can’t remember what side all the Hippies were on during this transition, But it was a Republican that reached out with Kissinger to start talks with China and the start of the end.
I honestly looked for a solid story of truth. But found it to be a little weak and non evident.
This will pass until the next sensational story from confident sources who can’t be named, accuses him of something. Speaking of rumors, sources tell me that Hilary and Huma Abedin have been seeing each other lately… a lot, again. Without Bill around. Could it be the next Gail and Oprah scenario? They should just come out and stop hiding the relationship. -
I see Dr Fauci will be speaking at the Atlantics festival in late September with Hillary and Samantha Bee.
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Absolute progressive / lefty here…
but I DO think printing news articles based on ‘anonymous’ sources is total BS. What if the right started doing this? anyone could make up anything.-
Quote from ar123
Absolute progressive / lefty here…
but I DO think printing news articles based on ‘anonymous’ sources is total BS. What if the right started doing this? anyone could make up anything.
It’s a tough call … but if you absolutely can’t get the story with people on record then having a policy on anonymous sourcing is appropriate imho.
[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/14/reader-center/how-the-times-uses-anonymous-sources.html]https://www.nytimes.com/2…anonymous-sources.html[/link]
How The Times Uses Anonymous Sources:Under our guidelines, anonymous sources should be used only for information that we think is newsworthy and credible, and that we are not able to report any other way.
We realize many readers are skeptical about the credibility and motivation of unnamed sources; some even question whether the sources exist. We have rules and procedures to try to address those concerns.
Besides the reporter, at least one editor must know the identity of the source. Use of anonymous sources in any story must be approved by a high-ranking editor, usually a department head like the International editor or the Washington bureau chief, or their deputies. When the anonymous sourcing is central to the story, it generally must be approved by an even higher-ranking editor like a deputy managing editor.
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Some readers suggest that sources are more likely to be honest if their names are published, and more likely to lie if granted anonymity. But reporters in many areas know that the opposite can be true. On the record, people in sensitive positions will often simply mouth the official line; they will be candid only if they know their name wont be used.
Of course, we have to be skeptical. There is a real risk of being spun and manipulated. Reporters and editors ask themselves: How does the source know this information? Whats the motivation for telling us? Has she or he proved reliable in the past? Are there ways to corroborate the information? Often we explain some of this background in the story, while still taking care to protect the sources identity.
And again, with the Atlantic piece it was 4 independent sources.
But sure, if an organization is willing to simply lie and print known falsehoods then that could be problematic.
Do journalists and organizations occasionally get a story wrong? Yes. But I would posit that this story is indeed newsworthy and important.. So if they can’t get people on-record than using multiple independent anonymous sources under guidelines is appropriate. And the [i]Atlantic[/i] editor was very clear that the sources are not anonymous to him.
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A whistleblower is an anonymous source. That does not mean the information is certainly a lie because it requires corroboration, which in this case is being corroborated by other reporters. Even from Fox.
And it definitely sounds like the character of our president.
The sound of John F. Kellys silence is deafening.
The former White House chief of staff has remained quiet in the face of Atlantic editor in chief Jeffrey Goldbergs [link=https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/09/trump-americans-who-died-at-war-are-losers-and-suckers/615997/]report[/link] about Trumps scornful comments about service members as losers and suckers including Kellys son, killed in the line of duty.
Kelly is no Trump fan, not in the wake of his unceremonious firing and Trumps derisive assessment. (He got eaten alive, [link=https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/09/04/trump_john_kelly_was_unable_to_function_as_chief_of_staff_got_eaten_alive_and_petered_out.html]Trump said Friday[/link], suggesting Kelly might be a Goldberg source. He was unable to handle the pressure of this job.”)
But does anyone beyond the most reflexive Trump supporter really believe that a career Marine, a four-star general, a Gold Star father, would invent such a story however it managed to make its way to Goldberg?
Every damning incident in the story is consistent with what we already know of Trumps character and attitude toward military service. His avoidance of the Vietnam draft, with seemingly [link=https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/26/us/politics/trump-vietnam-draft-exemption.html]bogus[/link] claims of bone spurs. His public derision of the late Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), I like people who werent captured. His 2016 [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/07/30/donald-trump-responds-to-the-khan-family-maybe-she-wasnt-allowed-to-have-anything-to-say/?itid=lk_inline_manual_11]belittling[/link] of a Gold Star father who appeared at the Democratic convention.
Nonetheless, if Kellys choice is silence, it is hard to interpret that as anything but tacit confirmation. If Goldberg were telling a false story about Kelly and his son, surely Kelly would offer some correction. Kelly does not often speak publicly of his sons death, but he has done so in terms that are the compelling opposite of Trumps transactional worldview.
When you lose one in combat in my opinion, theres a pride that goes with it, that he didnt have to be there doing what he was doing, he [link=https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2017/10/17/heres-how-john-kelly-described-losing-his-son-in-combat/]said[/link] in 2016, shortly before his retirement from the military.
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Does anyone really believes trump did. Or say these things?
Its not changing anyones opinion on trump but of course he said these things and he believes them
Hes an egomaniacal narcissist without empathy or a soul
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Does anyone believe trump did not say this stuff?
He is an egotistical narcissist who lacks empathy and has no souL
Of course he said those things but it doesnt change anything
The people who Ike him will turn their heads and the people who dont like him will just say yes
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Quote from Chirorad84
Does anyone believe trump did not say this stuff?
Lots of people. Say what you want about Trump, but he has been enormously successful in convincing Republicans that “the media” is a monolith that is not to be trusted.
With the exception of Fox News and right-wing talk radio, large majorities of GOP-leaners don’t trust news sources.
It’s good that Fox News has corroborated a significant amount of this story…. but at the same time their reporters are confirming the story, the commentators are on camera calling it a hoax and fake news.
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I dont know
I think nearly everyone had their mind made up
Most people know trump is brash egotistical and says stupid outrageous stuff all the time
We either choose to believe it or dismiss it
Honestly the election cove held today or November or next year and it doesnt really matter. People have their minds made up and nothing is going to change on either side
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I agree with Chiro here. People predisposed to believe it will. People who are skeptical will note that Mrs Jobs, who owns the Atlantic, is one of Bidens biggest donors and that this story which supposedly happened in 2018 is now being leaked right about the time that military members will be receiving their absentee ballots.
Its a dirty trick that targets active duty military while standing on the graves of dead heroes. I hope that karma catches up with the perpetrators of the lie where I can see it; it would be enormously and personally satisfying.
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Someone on CNN estimated that 1/3 of Trump supporters believe that it is not true. 1/3 don’t care and the other 1/3 could be affected by these books and news reports.
So, ~1/6 of the US pop believes trump did not say this stuff.
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Quote from dergon
Quote from Chirorad84
Does anyone believe trump did not say this stuff?
Lots of people. Say what you want about Trump, but he has been enormously successful in convincing Republicans that “the media” is a monolith that is not to be trusted.
With the exception of Fox News and right-wing talk radio, large majorities of GOP-leaners don’t trust news sources.
It’s good that Fox News has corroborated a significant amount of this story…. but at the same time their reporters are confirming the story, the commentators are on camera calling it a hoax and fake news.
It’s not just Republicans. The YouGov poll yesterday asked “who you trust to provide accurate information” for Trump, Biden, media, Fauci, etc. Even only 62% of Democrats said they trust the media and most of it is geared toward them. Only 23% of Indepedents and 11% of Republicans said the same… Only 35% of the country trusts the media to provide accurate information which is actually their only job.
[link=https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hmvwY-EJIMWKveUWPTdpx_-JL6VTqCcx/view]https://drive.google.com/…WPTdpx_-JL6VTqCcx/view[/link]-
The Media covers a lot of territory such as including alternative media like Fox & Rush & Alex Jones, etc.
As angry birds asked you in another as, whats left after your list of media you dont trust, FOX & OAN?
Very many believe there are no such things as facts, all is mere opinion.
Like a round Earth.
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If you consider Fox to be alternative media then you have to consider CNN and MSNBC to be alternative media too.
Just look at the Independents then – only 23% trust the media.
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Admiral James Stravidis has called on Mattis and Kelly to speak publicly on this.
I hope they do…. either way.-
If they continue to say nothing what does that tell you?
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Quote from Chirorad84
If they continue to say nothing what does that tell you?
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/09/05/deafening-devastating-sound-john-kellys-silence/?fbclid=IwAR27c8DdV9z-2ixmIxwmp6r177ATIT6zc2Ek0Cj3FI8WBK6aCgzo8kLLtk0]https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/09/05/deafening-devastating-sound-john-kellys-silence/?fbclid=IwAR27c8DdV9z-2ixmIxwmp6r177ATIT6zc2Ek0Cj3FI8WBK6aCgzo8kLLtk0[/link]
[b]The deafening sound of John Kellys silence[/b]
does anyone beyond the most reflexive Trump supporter really believe that a career Marine, a four-star general, a Gold Star father, would invent such a story however it managed to make its way to Goldberg? Goldberg describes Trumps visit with Kelly to Arlington National Cemetery on Memorial Day 2017. They stood at the grave of Kellys son Robert, killed at 29 in Afghanistan when he stepped on a landmine leading a platoon of Marines. Trump, while standing by Robert Kellys grave, turned directly to his father and said, I dont get it. What was in it for them? Goldberg writes.
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So what should we make of [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trump-atlantic-military-reaction/2020/09/04/b0fe0690-eec0-11ea-a21a-0fbbe90cfd8c_story.html?itid=lk_inline_manual_12]Kellys silence[/link]? Ingrained habits of stoicism and convictions about duties of confidentiality and loyalty to a commander in chief, even this one, seem to be at work here. This is perplexing, to say the least. There are persuasive arguments on the other side about countervailing duties, including to warn the country about the man seeking a second term. But heroes are scarce among those who chose to serve Trump. Kellys tenure in [link=https://deadline.com/2018/09/bob-woodwards-new-book-scorches-earth-under-president-trump-with-john-kelly-proclaiming-were-in-crazytown-1202456754/]Crazytown[/link], as Bob Woodward quoted him in describing the Trump White House, included overseeing the implementation of the administrations cruel policy of separating migrant children from their parents.
Nonetheless, if Kellys choice is silence, it is hard to interpret that as anything but tacit confirmation. If Goldberg were telling a false story about Kelly and his son, surely Kelly would offer some correction. Kelly does not often speak publicly of his sons death, but he has done so in terms that are the compelling opposite of Trumps transactional worldview.
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And so it is with Kelly. The world must construe his silence according to its wits, and judge Trump accordingly.
[/QUOTE]
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Frum: Where are the senior officers of the United States armed forces, serving and retiredthe men and women who worked most closely on military affairs with President Trump? Has any one of them stepped forward to say, Thats not the man I know?
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Thats what Im
SayingAnd thats what Im hearing from many of my fellow vets
The last straw for many military and ex military was putting the troops against the protestors in DC
That was the line trump crossed that lost him a third of military support
Historically military is 60-40 republicans or greater
But you look at the recent military times poll and its 50-40 pro Biden
10% think they both stink
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[link=https://twitter.com/ForecasterEnten/status/1302995388383797248]https://twitter.com/Forec…us/1302995388383797248[/link]
Harry Enten: Trump needs support of military voters
Trump can thank veterans for his 2016 victory over Hillary Clinton. According to the CCES study of verified 2016 voters, he won veterans and active military members by a 27-point margin over the Democratic nominee.
This was a huge deal for Trump because active military and veterans make up about 12% of voters. To give you some perspective, that’s [link=https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1l5fpK7ysQhQbZPv9hnZ_-PO1J1zBVPXSSQjNejTXecY/edit#gid=0]a slightly higher proportion[/link] of the electorate than Hispanic voters (some of whom are or were part of the armed forces) and just a hair less than 18-29 year-olds (again some of whom did or are currently serving in the military).
A look at the swing states reveals just how pivotal this bloc is. Trump won the six close swing states of Arizona, Florida, Michigan, North Carolina, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin by [link=https://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/]less than 4 points each[/link]. Without winning at least some of these states, Trump would have lost.
Trump lost among those who were not active or veteran voters in each of these six states. In other words, Trump would not be President right now if it were not for the military vote. In Florida, for example, Trump would have been defeated by a little less than 5 points without military voters. He actually won the state by 1 point.
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Indeed, Trump receiving Romney levels of support in the military vote could have been enough to have thrown the election to Clinton.
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But even if the polls don’t move, Trump has wasted precious time on a storyline that isn’t favorable to him.
[/QUOTE]
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Yes, the hoax machine will go into full swing.
I do enjoy how the only criticisms of Trump are about mean things he supposedly said, rather than actual policies or actions.
Trump is a mean mean man is pretty much the Biden platform.
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“But even if the polls don’t move, Trump has wasted precious time on a storyline that isn’t favorable to him.”
This cuts both ways, dergon. Remember, the Biden campaign has spent about a week on this story as well.
The last time that the Democrats spent a significant amount of time on an inappropriate thing that Trump said, there was a transcript of the Hunter Biden/Ukraine call. Then there was a big impeachment proceeding and so on which amounted to…
Nothing. Trump’s approval didn’t really change during the impeachment, and the whole impeachment thing wasn’t even mentioned during the DNC or RNC. As if it didn’t happen.
So it could also be an error if the Biden campaign focuses on stories that don’t move the needle for Trump, rather than on substantive policy changes that would improve the lives of Americans vis a vis Trump.
Meanwhile, unemployment is dropping, the economy and stock market are improving, and people may decide, well, Trump is mean, but at least he won’t lock us down again.
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Quote from Cubsfan10
If you consider Fox to be alternative media then you have to consider CNN and MSNBC to be alternative media too.
Just look at the Independents then – only 23% trust the media.
Why? Why must I consider CNN and MSNBC to be as bad as FOX presenting alternative facts?
Show the facts for your belief.
The problem with the “only x% trust the media while y% do not trust the media begs the question, what media are they talking about?
If only 23% trust the media, the question remains, which media? Again back to AngryBirds’ question to you, if your list in the other thread is truthful that shows so-called “liberal media” what’s left? FOX & OAN? If in truth 77% of Independents trust no media at all regardless of source, I posit they are merely ignorant & need to blame others as their excuse.-
Screwtape is real, Frumi.
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Quote from Frumious
Quote from Cubsfan10
If you consider Fox to be alternative media then you have to consider CNN and MSNBC to be alternative media too.
Just look at the Independents then – only 23% trust the media.
Why? Why must I consider CNN and MSNBC to be as bad as FOX presenting alternative facts?
Show the facts for your belief.
The problem with the “only x% trust the media while y% do not trust the media begs the question, what media are they talking about?
If only 23% trust the media, the question remains, which media? Again back to AngryBirds’ question to you, if your list in the other thread is truthful that shows so-called “liberal media” what’s left? FOX & OAN? If in truth 77% of Independents trust no media at all regardless of source, I posit they are merely ignorant & need to blame others as their excuse.
Because CNN and MSNBC are as left wing as Fox is right wing? Are you so partisan that you can’t even admit that? That only right wing media is bad and left wing media is factual?
[link=https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-ratings]https://www.allsides.com/…ias/media-bias-ratings[/link]Considering most of the mainstream media that is presented is left-leaning, I think people are thinking of that media when the question is asked. Literally only Foxnews is right leaning and CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, NY times, Wash Post all are left leaning. Not to mention hollywood in general, talk shows in general, late night in general, etc. People can’t escape left-leaning news and opinions. They could escape right-leaning if they wanted to.
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Quote from Cubsfan10
Because CNN and MSNBC are as left wing as Fox is right wing? Are you so partisan that you can’t even admit that? That only right wing media is bad and left wing media is factual?
[link=https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-ratings]https://www.allsides.com/…ias/media-bias-ratings[/link]
Considering most of the mainstream media that is presented is left-leaning, I think people are thinking of that media when the question is asked. Literally only Foxnews is right leaning and CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, NY times, Wash Post all are left leaning. Not to mention hollywood in general, talk shows in general, late night in general, etc. People can’t escape left-leaning news and opinions. They could escape right-leaning if they wanted to.
Right-leaning vs Left-leaning is definitely NOT the same as alternate news providing alternate facts. I regularly read WSJ and The American Conservative. Neither make up facts & present them as the real facts. They present their viewpoint of what happened which is not the same as inventing information.
I do NOT subscribe to FOX although I do give credit to some in the actual news dept of FOX but none of them are FOX’s business plan where they make their money, the money comes from their propaganda dept which are their ‘stars,’ Hannity, Ingraham, Fox & Friends, etc.
That is what you are missing.
So, back to AngryBirds and my question, who do you trust for information if the media is all biased & none give the facts? You never quite seem to answer that question.-
There’s no scale of “made up facts” but again, you’re nakedly partisan if you don’t believe CNN and MSNBC make up things and present false information as much as Fox does.
I don’t trust any news. I usually go to RCP or similar site that shows different viewpoints and I try to piece together some semblance of the truth. I read just about everything on both sides except for the extrems – mother jones, breitbart types.-
Quote from Cubsfan10
There’s no scale of “made up facts” but again, you’re nakedly partisan if you don’t believe CNN and MSNBC make up things and present false information as much as Fox does.
I don’t trust any news. I usually go to RCP or similar site that shows different viewpoints and I try to piece together some semblance of the truth. I read just about everything on both sides except for the extrems – mother jones, breitbart types.
RCP??? You mean the site that shows EPOCH News as a site worthy of reading?
And most if not all of their stories come from the opinion pages of the various media, not the news pages. WSJ’s news pages is not the same as WSJ’s opinion pages. They usually are different by 180 degrees.
You need some better unbiased news aggregators than RCP.-
Im old enough to remember when everyone was yelling at Trump for holding a military parade on the Fourth of July.
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Quote from radgrinder
Im old enough to remember when everyone was yelling at Trump for holding a military parade on the Fourth of July.
So you are under 2 years old.
Correction, at least 2 years old.
Explains much I guess.-
Yes the military was thrilled at having such an unprecedented display of soviet style leadership
Cmon man every military and ex military thought that a stupid idea
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One last thing, sites like AllSides is useful but limited. They report on bias and leaning, Right-Left-Center but do not rate for factual reporting.
[ul][*]We don’t rate accuracy or facts just bias. Our ratings help readers to understand that certain perspectives may be missing if they read only one outlet, or outlets from only one side of the political spectrum. [/ul]
[size=”0″]But I would still recommend AllSides as a better aggregator than RealClearPolitics because they note the source of a story & its ranking AND they also link to SNOPES, FactCheck and PoliFact because those 3 sites check and explain the accuracy of the reported story. [/size]-
So nothing is good enough for you unless its left leaning and all left leaning things are factual?
You’re getting ridiculous here.
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You making up stuff out of the blue is the ridiculous part. My beef is not with party or right-left leaning so much as alternate facts being reported as the real thing. But facts don’t matter to you as much as party loyalty.
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Is this directed at me or places that make stuff up?
What exactly am I making up?
CNN and MSNBC are definitely as partisan as Foxnews and definitely have as much “fakenews.” That’s agreed upon by pretty much everyone who watches TV except for the most partisan people on both sides – which is not me. They are all three garbage IMO. -
Quote from Cubsfan10
Is this directed at me or places that make stuff up?
What exactly am I making up?
It is directly at you. All your other stuff is gobbleygook.
THIS:So nothing is good enough for you unless its left leaning and all left leaning things are factual?
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I was asking you a question. How is that making up anything?
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Capt. Chesley “Sully” Sullenberger:
[link=https://twitter.com/Captsully/status/1301998166036877313]https://twitter.com/Capts…us/1301998166036877313[/link]
I am a veteran. I volunteered for military service during wartime. So did my father. His generation saved the world from fascism.
In our travels, my wife Lorrie and I have always made it a point to visit military bases, hospitals and cemeteries, to meet and honor those who serve and have served our nation.
I have long known that serving a cause greater than oneself is the highest calling, whether in the military or in civilian life. And I have always tried to be a voice of reason and to speak in a measured way.
But this situation calls for a much more direct approach. It is time to call out egregious behavior for what it is.
For the first time in American history, a president has repeatedly shown utter and vulgar contempt and disrespect for those who have served and died serving our country.
While I am not surprised, I am disgusted by the current occupant of the Oval Office. He has repeatedly and consistently shown himself to be completely unfit for and to have no respect for the office he holds.
He took an oath of office that is similar to the one that each person takes who enters the U.S. Military. But he has completely failed to uphold his oath. Now we know why. He has admitted that he cannot comprehend the concept of service above self.
He cannot understand selflessness because he is selfish. He cannot conceive of courage because he is a coward. He cannot feel duty because he is disloyal.
We owe it not only to those who have served and sacrificed for our nation, but to ourselves and to succeeding generations to vote him out.
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Quote from Cubsfan10
So nothing is good enough for you unless its left leaning and all left leaning things are factual?
Quote from Cubsfan10
I was asking you a question. How is that making up anything?
So the answer is no.
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Im not saying the militarys in love with me, the soldiers are. The top people in the Pentagon probably arent, because they want to do nothing but fight wars so that all of those wonderful companies that make the bombs and make the planes and make everything else stay happy.
President Trump, accusing top military officers of wanting to ‘fight wars’ to make defense companies rich… today
[link=https://taskandpurpose.com/news/trump-attacks-pentagon-leadership]https://taskandpurpose.co…ks-pentagon-leadership[/link]
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From that Liberal sheet, the NY Times:
[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/06/business/media/trump-election-journalists.html]https://www.nytimes.com/2…ction-journalists.html[/link]But journalism also has its own weird ideology that doesnt match up with a party or movement. That you, the public, should know, rather than not know. That sunlight is the best disinfectant. That secrets are bad. That power deserves challenge, including the power of figures most of our respective audiences admire. That compelling stories need to be told.
But those values are rarely the actual reason anyone likes us, or the direction in which praise pulls us.The alternative to heroes are strong institutions, and a recognition that the people who work in them are human. Reporters, for all the preening from cable news to social media, are normal working people whose strengths are often connected to what would seem in other contexts to be personality flaws: obsessiveness, distrust, appetite for confrontation, sometimes a certain manipulativeness. You dont get revelatory news from strange people with bad motives by giving the impression that youre a saint. One of the journalists who has produced key revelations on President Trumps abuse of power talked to me recently about the job more in terms of the moral grays of John le Carré than the simple contrasts of cable news.
This dynamic presents itself with particular clarity on the television interview circuit. Its an enduring global mystery why British and Australian interviewers are so much better than ours at pinning down politicians and forcing clarity out of confrontation, as Kay Burley of Sky News [link=https://twitter.com/aljwhite/status/1301423616479944704?s=20]demonstrated[/link] in demolishing a cabinet minister last Thursday.
The ideal interviewer, on the other hand, makes you spit out your coffee. Thats what Jonathan Swan, an Australian political reporter for Axios, did when he challenged Mr. Trump with no special deference or formality in a half-hour [link=https://www.axios.com/full-axios-hbo-interview-donald-trump-cd5a67e1-6ba1-46c8-bb3d-8717ab9f3cc5.html]interview[/link] on HBO on Aug. 3, perhaps the best interview of Mr. Trumps term. You may not want Mr. Swan in your kitchen in the morning, making dyspeptic faces at you. You do want him doing those interviews.
I called up one of my favorite British interviewers, the conservative former BBC host Andrew Neil, at his place in Provence, France, last week to test this theory. Mr. Neils exchanges with figures ranging from the former Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn to the American conservative Ben Shapiro to the conspiracist Alex Jones are brutal and relentless. I asked him if he worried about coming off as a pompous jerk. (You are the worst person Ive ever interviewed, he told Mr. Jones.)
He laughed at me.
Ive never, ever come away from an interview thinking, Ooh, do you think the viewers will like me because of that or not? he said. Its never crossed my mind, actually, until you raised it in this telephone call.
Absolutely dead, watching through my fingers, my god pic.twitter.com/dkAyL9s5HD
— Alan White (@aljwhite) September 3, 2020
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Trump WH press conference fits the if youre explaining, youre losing adage
Wow… that thing was off the rails too.
A stream-of-consciousness grievance rant of epic proportion
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I’m old enough to remember when Joe Biden took 5 military deferments because of childhood asthma, while he played college football.
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Well I guess if Sully believes it, it must be true.
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Quote from Cubsfan10
Well I guess if Sully believes it, it must be true.
This the limit of your thinking?
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Quote from Frumious
Quote from Cubsfan10
Well I guess if Sully believes it, it must be true.
This the limit of your thinking?
There are anonymous sources that claim Trump said something bad about the troops 2 years ago. These sources are part of the anti-Trump media complex.
There is a book written by an anti-Trump former Trump admin (Bolton) that doesn’t say anything about it and actually refutes it.
There are official documents that list weather as the reason they didn’t go to the site.
Trump has been a major part of funding the military more than his predecessor.
Those are facts. Believe what you want but this is just another in a long line of partisan grab a$$ing.
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You are free to believe what you like regardless of reporting.
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Thanks. So are you.
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Im trying to remember the news from then but it was a light rain. Also Merkel, Macron, and Trudeau all participants in memorials around France that day.
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Didnt General Kelley go there to represent the USA
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Quote from Chirorad84
Didnt General Kelley go there to represent the USA
Yes.
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
Im trying to remember the news from then but it was a light rain. Also Merkel, Macron, and Trudeau all participants in memorials around France that day.
Supposedly the POTUS is held to a higher standard according to the articles I’ve read since he/she has to have more security and such? I’m not sure if this is true but it’s been reported.
Also, as you all are pointing out….I don’t recall hearing about this at the time. Why now?-
I remember hearing about at the time
They said trump didnt go because he didnt want t to mess up his hair
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It was moderately sized story at the time. I remember seeing memes of Obama delivering remarks in the rain as the story evolved that Trump didn’t want to get his hair wet.
But it was right at the 2018 midterms too as Pelosi was taking over the House after the blue wave …. so it likely got less play due to domestic politics.-
[link]https://youtu.be/LuBX50zVY5g[/link]
The Lincoln Project: “Un-American”-
So there are people who say Trump said something and people who say he didn’t. As a reasonable person, I don’t really know whether he did or didn’t. Somehow the liberals here express clear 100% conviction that he said it
Simple minds are swayed by their emotions. Simple minds also look to the government to guide them through life.-
Didn’t Trump give a speech in the rain the next day?
[link=https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/trump-speaks-at-military-cemetery-without-umbrella-in-soaking-rain]https://www.washingtonexa…brella-in-soaking-rain[/link]-
Yep. Already doing damage control because the blowback was fast and nasty
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So you are 100% positive that Trump said disparaging things about fallen veterans?
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100%? No
Highly confident? Yes
If it was a trial and I was deciding beyond a reasonable doubt? Absolutely
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Wow you are simple minded….
Care to present any evidence that proves your emotional driven OPINION?-
Please no hearsay
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Your ignorance is astonishing.
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Bolton said it was completely false. See no reason why he would cover for Trump.
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Kellys aide also says it didnt happen.
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Quote from mrctus
Bolton said it was completely false. See no reason why he would cover for Trump.
That is a misrepresentation of what Bolton said.
“I didn’t hear that. I’m not saying he didn’t say them later in the day or another time, but I was there for that discussion.”
“These comments are despicable. If he made them, they are despicable.”
I have not heard anybody say, Oh, that doesnt sound like the Donald Trump I know.’
He was prone to say from time to time: What did they get out of it? What was the worth of the war in Iraq and the war in Afghanistan? That is a kind of insensitivity that Trump does have, theres no doubt about it.
(Comments to Bloomberg Radio and the NYT)
Bolton’s “defense” of Trump has been limited to commentary on the weather cancellation of the helicopter part of the trip.
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Oh. Dergon, thats exculpatory. Those are the questions of a president questioning the worth of wars and whether theyre worth the value of the lives of good men lost.
Insensitive? Quite the opposite.
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He said. “That was simply false.” Listen to the interview.
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You have to listen to the full interview on Fox (is there another?). Bolton hedges his bets. At the start he says the accusation was simply false but a few minutes later he says he was specifically speaking about when he was present with Trump at the time he believes the article was referring (which the anonymous sources state he was not present during the statements). Bolton further states that it is possible that Trump did make the statements in that Bolton can’t prove a negative (3:40 minutes into interview of 4:48 minutes) and that it is in character with TRump as he says Trump will disparage anyone and everyone whose last name is not TRump.
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[image]https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/001/299/change1.jpg[/image]
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Trump also denied he called MCCain a loser
But there are multiple interviews that show him saying that
Basically the guy is lying
Most everyone knows trump is a compulsive liar
No big surprises
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Quote from Chirorad84
Trump also denied he called MCCain a loser
[i]Trump said: He lost [the 2008 election], so I never liked him as much [u]after that[/u] because I dont like losers. [/i]
(from the fountain of all truth: Snopes)
The loser comment had nothing to do with McCains military service.
No love lost between those two and he did discount McCains ‘hero’ status, but the ‘loser’ comment was unrelated to his military career.
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There are multiple clips at different times in which trump called McCain a loser among other things
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They didn’t like each other. I’m sure McCain said bad things about Trump all the time.
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Apologist
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Apologist
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Quote from Chirorad84
There are multiple clips at different times in which trump called McCain a loser among other things
Links ?
Here is the complete quote:
[i]”I said, ‘Somebody should run against McCain,’ who has been, in my opinion, not so hot. And I supported him for president! I raised a million dollars for him. That’s a lot of money! I supported him. He lost. He let us down. But he lost. [u]So I never liked him much after that[/u], because I don’t like losers.”[/i]
The article he re-tweeted refers back to that quote, so its not a separate event.
As so often, there is a gap between what you want to be true and what is in fact true. And no, those are not ‘anonymous sources’, those are voices you are hearing.
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Why would Bolton lie about being present when the alleged statement was made? If he was not present. One would think he would answer, “I was not there, so I don’t know if he said it or not.”
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Quote from mrctus
Why would Bolton lie about being present when the alleged statement was made? If he was not present. One would think he would answer, “I was not there, so I don’t know if he said it or not.”
???
Who said Bolton was lying? Listen to what he says & qualifies later in the FOX appearance.-
The anonymous sourch said Bolton was not at the meeting when the alleged statement was made. Bolton said he was at the meeting when the alleged statement was made. So one is not telling the truth.
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Bolton can’t say that Trump didn’t say it at some other time when he wasn’t with Trump.
So Trump must be guilty.– Dergons brain….
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[b]White House Walks Back Trump’s Comments on Military Leaders [/b]
[b][/b]
After President Trump said Pentagon leaders [link=https://politicalwire.com/2020/09/07/bonus-quote-of-the-day-1387/]were beholden to defense contractors[/link], White House chief of staff Mark Meadows told [link=https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1303311631418564612?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1303311631418564612%7Ctwgr%5Eshare_3&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fus-news%2Flive%2F2020%2Fsep%2F08%2Fdonald-trump-coronavirus-covid-19-joe-biden-senate-live-updates]CNN[/link] his comments were not directed specifically at people like Defense Secretary Mark Esper or Joint Chiefs Chairman Mark Milley.
Said Meadows: That comment was more directed about the military industrial complex.After Trump said Pentagon leaders were beholden to defense contractors, Mark Meadows says his comments were not directed specifically at people like Defense Secretary Esper or Joint Chiefs Chairman Milley. “That comment was more directed about the military industrial complex."
— Kaitlan Collins (@kaitlancollins) September 8, 2020
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Are they not? I may be siding with the liberals on this? Or fiscal conservatives? Not sure. But, our military and space programs have definitely been stifled by bad contractor deals, sweetheart deals, and wastes of money.
Just look at the SLC idiocy going on at NASA as a posterchild. Or the Zumwalt destroyers. Or 100s of other things. I like funding the military and NASA but there could be a good audit and waste-clearing.-
You are not an Apologist
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Did you actually listen to what Bolton said?
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He said he didn’t hear it. But then he said he thinks Trumps a meanie and says mean things. He also hates Trump so he left an opening saying “well, I guess he could have said. I mean that sounds like something he’d say. but no, I never heard him say it.”
Seems totally convincing. -
Yes I did. Apparently you did not. He said he was at the meeting when the author alleged the statement was made. The author said he was not there. Very simple. Also said Trump could have said it another time when he was not present. The author references this one particular event. Im not sure why you are so confused?
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Chances are Trump said this stuff repeatedly
Im surf this was t a one time slip up
The guy is POS
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Quote from Chirorad84
Chances are Trump said this stuff repeatedly
Im surf this was t a one time slip up
The guy is POS
So just to be clear, you’re saying that calling people names (allegedly even) makes you a POS? -
You still did not answer the question.
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[b]New Fox News Reporting Bolsters Claim, Damages Mnuchin’s Refutation [/b]
Resurfaced video bolsters Fox News correspondent Jennifer Griffins reporting that President Donald Trump called military leaders losers and babies during a meeting at the Pentagon in 2017.Griffin has added to [link=https://www.mediaite.com/uncategorized/fox-news-jennifer-griffin-defends-reporting-after-trump-calls-for-her-firing-my-sources-are-unimpeachable/]her reporting on Trumps[/link] denigration of U.S. military personnel [link=https://www.mediaite.com/tv/jennifer-griffin-doubles-down-on-trump-reporting-claims-mnuchin-heard-him-call-generals-losers-babies/]by reporting that[/link] Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin was present at a July 20, 2017 Pentagon meeting during which Trump disparaged four-star generals by calling them losers, dopes, and babies.
Griffins reporting was in response [link=https://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-news-bret-baier-confronts-mnuchin-trump-says-he-opposes-cancel-culture-but-wants-one-of-our-reporters-fired/]to Mnuchins claim[/link] that he had never heard Trump speak ill of the military.The reporting is backed up by at least two instances in which Trump, as a presidential candidate, slammed U.S. military leaders using precisely the same terms.
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Jennifer Im not sure if you are aware, but the president has been tweeting about you saying that Jennifer Griffin should be fired for this kind of reporting. Never even called us for a comment. FOX News is gone,’ [b]Neil Cavuto[/b] said to Griffin on his live Saturday show. What do you think?
Well, first of all, I was in constant contact. [b]John Roberts[/b] was working his story at the White House and I was working my sources, Griffin responded. We teamed up as you saw at the top of [b]Bret Baier[/b]s show and our reports were straight down the middle as always. You know, Neil, Deep Throat was an unnamed source. It didnt make what he said untrue.
She added, My sources are not anonymous to me and I doubt they are anonymous the president.
My sources are unimpeachable. I feel very confident with what we have reported at FOX. Not every line of the Atlantic article did I confirm, but I would say that most of the descriptions and the quotes in that Atlantic article I did find people who were able to confirm and so you know I feel very confident in my reporting.
What they are saying they feel very strongly is accurate, Grffin continued. They were there and Im a reporter and it is my job to report what I heard.
You are a very good reporter, Cavuto declared while wrapping up the segment. And then some. Jennifer griffin following the story here. Shes pretty scrupulous when it comes to making sure all the Is are dotted and all the Ts are crossed.
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This still does not answer the question I posted.
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[link=https://www.foxnews.com/transcript/john-bolton-reacts-to-report-claiming-trump-called-fallen-soldiers-losers-and-suckers]https://www.foxnews.com/t…ers-losers-and-suckers[/link]
MACCALLUM: Yes. I mean you’ve heard the back and forth between reporters on this. Jennifer Griffin came on today and said that she stands by her sources, she says that you were not ‘in the room’ where it happened when this was discussed. What do you say to that?
MACCALLUM: I guess you know and as I say, Jennifer Griffin stands by her sources, perhaps there was another discussion that happened in another area that they were privy to and that is her reporting on this but you know, I guess the bigger question is this question of the president’s general attitude towards the military because I think what people see is very different from what they’re hearing from these generals.
BOLTON: Look obviously, I can’t prove the negative that he never said those things. The president has a habit of disparaging people, he ends up denigrating almost everybody that he comes in contact with whose last name is not Trump. I was simply responding to what I thought was the main point of the Atlantic article, that at the critical point Saturday morning when the decision was made not to go to Aisne-Marne that he made the disparaging remarks and he did not.So considering that Atlantic reported the same thing that FOX reporter Jennifer Griffin reports, you tell me who must be lying? FOX reporter has such an axe to grind that she is lying about the story? There never were sources telling her exactly what The Atlantic reported? She too is part of the conspiracy?
As Bolton states, he cannot prove a negative that TRump never said those things, only that he never heard him say it.
So show your argument.-
[img]https://crooksandliars.com/files/images/20/09/trtump_losers_babiesremarks.jpg[/img]
Griffin said this about the Treasury Secretary, “Mnuchin was in the Tank meeting at the Pentagon on July 20, 2017, when the president berated the Pentagon four-star generals, calling them losers, and dopes, and babies.”
Griffin continued, “So when Mnuchin says he’s never heard the president speak that way of the military or to generals that’s patently false.”
“I confirmed with people who were present at the meeting the president use those exact words in the Pentagon,” Griffin unequivocally stated.
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Thats actually a good thing. Theres a movement thats rising for Trump to issue an executive order prohibiting generals from taking high dollar jobs at Raytheon, Boeing, etc. after retirement.
The concern is that generals advise policies to keep America in endless wars so as to help prop up defense industry companies, which in turn reward the generals with lucrative sinecures once they leave the service.
This may actually boost Trumps approval with veterans and active duty.-
I think we have established that Trump at times uses mean words to bring a point across. Whatever ill informed and absurd point it may be.
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So you’re telling me that Obama, Bush, Clinton, etc. never said mean things or bad words toward anyone in the military and/or government? Right…
We all get mad and frustrated. At least he said to their faces.
He’s a jerk. A high level jerk. But sometimes a jerk is needed to point out stupid crap people do. I don’t have the context of that meeting or why he said it.
What is it that liberals want? Oh, Trump is mean to generals? Since when do liberals even like the military? -
He is more than a jerk
Multiple Comments from
A draft dodger about John MCCain and McCains service were disgustingHe doesnt deserve to be commander and chief
The military dislikes him more than any president in modern history
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Quote from Chirorad84
He is more than a jerk
Multiple Comments from
A draft dodger about John MCCain and McCains service were disgustingHe doesnt deserve to be commander and chief
The military dislikes him more than any president in modern history
Yeah you have to go all the way back to the pre-modern times of the Obama years to get to a President they disliked more.
[link=https://www.militarytimes.com/news/2017/01/08/the-obama-era-is-over-here-s-how-the-military-rates-his-legacy/]https://www.militarytimes.com/news/2017/01/08/the-obama-era-is-over-here-s-how-the-military-rates-his-legacy/[/link]
[link=https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/08/31/as-trumps-popularity-slips-in-latest-military-times-poll-more-troops-say-theyll-vote-for-biden/]https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/08/31/as-trumps-popularity-slips-in-latest-military-times-poll-more-troops-say-theyll-vote-for-biden/[/link] -
Biden dodged the draft too. I think he got more deferments for….childhood asthma?…then Trump did total.
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Quote from radgrinder
Thats actually a good thing. Theres a movement thats rising for Trump to issue an executive order prohibiting generals from taking high dollar jobs at Raytheon, Boeing, etc. after retirement.
The concern is that generals advise policies to keep America in endless wars so as to help prop up defense industry companies, which in turn reward the generals with lucrative sinecures once they leave the service.
This may actually boost Trumps approval with veterans and active duty.
It may. Out of the handful retired general staff I know personally, one is a radiologist, one a ‘non mil fed’ and the others are employed by defense contractors (Leonardo, Raytheon). There is definitely a pipeline and cutting that off may not be a bad idea as it invites the kind of contracting shenanigans particularly the AF and Navy are known for. -
If Bolton said it didn’t happen, it didn’t happen. Bolton is truth.
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Quote from Chirorad84
Chances are Trump said this stuff repeatedly
Im surf this was t a one time slip up
The guy is POS
Chances are you beat your wife.
I didn’t see you do it.
I don’t know if you did when I wasn’t looking.
See how easy it is to support your view…
Logic of a 3 year old.
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