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The Pope vs. the GOP
Headline on CNN’s political page today:
[url=http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/21/politics/pope-francis-congress-republicans-politics/]The Pope vs. the GOP[/url]In interviews with CNN, a wide array of GOP lawmakers argued that the Pope’s message should stay away from the political fights consuming Washington, and many expressed strong disapproval of the fiery views he’s espoused since taking over the papacy in 2013. “I think it’s totally inappropriate that the Pope is weighing in on all the real sensitive, far-left issues,” said Oklahoma Republican James Inhofe, one of the most conservative senators. “I’m not a Catholic, but my Catholic friends in Oklahoma are not real pleased with it.” Rep. Paul Gosar, a Catholic Republican from Arizona, plans to boycott the event. “I don’t need to be lectured by the Pope about climate change,” Gosar said in an interview off the House floor. “When he wants to take a political position, I will tell you: He is free and clear to be criticized like the rest of us.”
The comments demonstrate how the Pope’s visit is creating an awkward moment for Republicans in Washington. While Christian conservatives have long made up an influential segment of their base, and there are areas of agreement between the GOP and the Vatican, the Pope has showcased more progressive stances during his time leading one of the world’s largest religions.
The huge platform {presented by his speaking at a joint session of Congress}gives Pope Francis a major opportunity to help drive the national conversation. What’s more, nearly six in 10 Americans have a favorable view of Francis, according to a recent Gallup poll, making him far more popular than President Barack Obama and leaders of Congress. How aggressive Francis will be in advocating his views to a conservative Congress is an open question. But he has not been afraid to touch on thorny subjects over the last several years, drawing global attention for his stances.
Focusing on climate change, the environment, income inequality, the plight of the poor and migrants.
I’m liking this Pope. 🙂 -
45 Replies
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new GOP slogan. Catholicism is great, except for when it’s inconvenient to my views.
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Francis has forgotten, already, that God’s kingdom is not of this world.
It’s really sad, actually. But that’s what you get from heretics who are also heads of state.-
Not sure the import. Are you saying that the Pope is a heretic?
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Quote from Cigar
Francis has forgotten, already, that God’s kingdom is not of this world.
It’s really sad, actually. But that’s what you get from heretics who are also heads of state.
There is much dislike for this pope from the Right. An even smaller and more extreme sliver of the far right believe that Francis is a “heretic”, possibly representing an “anti-Pope”.
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God doesn’t matter in this Earth because it is “not his kingdom.”
Interesting. I think that would be considered heresy.
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Curious any other Catholics on this forum
I find it amusing how misunderstood catholics are by the right.
One thing about this pope is he is consisitent in his views …….I would think the wingnuts who insist upon conviction would appreciate that but obviously they only appreciate what parts of the popes agenda fits their own.-
Quote from kpack123
Curious any other Catholics on this forum
I find it amusing how misunderstood catholics are by the right.
One thing about this pope is he is consisitent in his views …….I would think the wingnuts who insist upon conviction would appreciate that but obviously they only appreciate what parts of the popes agenda fits their own.
So the pope does have an agenda?
And what does this visit have to do with Jesus Christ and the Church?
Catholics act like the popes are rock stars. Substitute Elvis and the reaction is nearly identical. It’s sorta sad — but is totally American, in the weirdest way.-
Your problem
……you never ever ever think 2 steps ahead. You get a thought…… you react in a chicken little doom and gloom devils advocate like fashion…………… You think in the moment based upon the moment hence your idiotic gold comments and your Trump predictions,
Hear what he has to say first then if you want to criticize then by all means do
Try listening and thinking once in a while it might work out better than dumbarse predictions that make you look stupid
And with the gold and now the trump…… you are starting to look pretty fng stupid
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Quote from kpack123
Your problem
……you never ever ever think 2 steps ahead. You get a thought…… you react in a chicken little doom and gloom devils advocate like fashion…………… You think in the moment based upon the moment hence your idiotic gold comments and your Trump predictions,
Hear what he has to say first then if you want to criticize then by all means do
Try listening and thinking once in a while it might work out better than dumbarse predictions that make you look stupid
And with the gold and now the trump…… you are starting to look pretty fng stupid
Let’s be clear. I make predictions. I don’t refuse to make them, like most people, and when I do they are bold, but well reasoned. Like most lefties, you leave out all of the details (Gold has not been a bad investment, especially when you compare the minimal losses have been better than what most people do buying stocks — also, will you give me credit when the market gets crushed? I doubt it). Why am I stupid about Trump? He is was 20-1 when I bet him. Do you know anything about risk and reward? Do you even know what type of team in the NFL is 20-1 currently to win it all? Trump has a way better chance of winning than that team.
Regarding my tradition and beliefs, if you can’t figure it out, you know little or nothing about the history of Christianity. No surprise that you are “Catholic” or at least call yourself that though you probably disagree with many of their heretical and incongruent teachings.
You accuse me of “hating Muslims and Catholics.” Yet I’m the childish and stupid one though? Your lies and logic are as idiotic as they are untrue.
Why do you love Shari’a so much, kpack? Maybe you should go live in one of those societies. These are the societies where hate reigns, yet you malign me and call me the hatemonger. It’s a sickness.-
Of course I do not agree with all of my Churches current stances because everything is open for interpretation. So what?
I don’t quite understand you Sharia comment so I will let you pretend to do whatever you are doing with that
I do find it amusing that you are so embarrassed of your faith that you refuse to state it………………not much of a faith then
And again if you consider gold a good or even a decent investment since your [i][u][b]BOLD [/b][/u][/i]prediction……………well I will just let that idiotic claim stand for itself
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Calling something a “bold” prediction is code for I know its stupid but I will say it anyway. I disagree with the Pope on abortion but have respect for his views. He is a far cry better than any of the so-called Christian televangelists
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Quote from Thor
He is a far cry better than any of the so-called Christian televangelists
totally agree, but that’s not setting the bar very high…
/not catholic
//likes this pope
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surprised by Christy’s comments..really ..like feel the locust are about to descend on the GOP …2016 ain’t gonna be pretty
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Pope Francis is a good man. He just is not as smart or as schooled by life as pope John Paul II, who understood the evil of communism, the false promise of socialism and the advantages of a free and capitalist society. He had first hand knowledge of the failures of communism.
Too bad that the first Jesuit Pope would buy into the socialist and climate alarmist agenda. The Jesuits I dealt with in my youth were exceptional and highly educated men. I guess it’s ok to be a socialist if you are a Pope. Jesus was likely a socialist. It’s a good thing that we have separation of church and state..
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Lot of Catholic haters out there but that’s OK Catholics aren’t real whiney like others
FYI
The pope is a JesuitJesuits originated under Ignatius of Loyola and founded under Pope Paul III
Their main goals are vows of Poverty, Chastity and Obedience to God
I would think these are Noble convictions of any individual and when this is labeled socialism by American right wing nuts, then this just shows you the character of people like Alda and others
I thought republicans Thought conviction to be a virtue………………..but I guess that’s only when it suits your agenda -
Specifically Alda
What did the Pope say pertaining to Climate Change do you disagree with?
What did he say regarding socioeconomic policy do you disagree with?
Specifics…………. no well I heard or FOX said or spin………..What did the Pope say that you don’t like -
Quote from kpack123
Specifically Alda
What did the Pope say pertaining to Climate Change do you disagree with?
What did he say regarding socioeconomic policy do you disagree with?
The Pope did not say anything specifically wrong, or anything that I disagree with … however, it is not that simple.
We all want a clean environment, we all want to help the poor and downtrodden, we all want to help our neighbors. Those are all principles that any good citizen should want. Compassion and charity are at the core of Christianity, specifically Catholisism. The Pope, as the head of the Catholic church has the duty to espouse these virtues.
However… the rubs comes in the implementation and costs of these principles. Climate change has become an excuse for government usurpation of power and freedoms. When the government uses a high-minded goal as an excuse to usurp freedoms and gain control energy assets and the energy economy, I drop out of the train. This is how we end up with Solyndra. Socialism sounds good in principle, but its effective implementation requires government enforcement. Almost by definition, a Socialist society is a highly controlled society. Control leads to stagnation. To quote Milton Friedman A society that puts equality before freedom will get neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both. The virtues of free markets are opaque in the fog of class warfare, but blatantly visible in hindsight.
Helping your neighbor does not mean opening all borders and requiring your citizens to pay for services to all those that flood in. In order to maintain rule-of-law, you must maintain sovereignty and preserve the traditions and institutions that made you successful. The poor cannot help the poor. Look at what is happening in Denmark. Their charitable approach to Muslims is turning into a nightmare of Muslims demanding that the country adopt Sharia law. The road to destruction is paved with good intentions.
Obama and the Democrats are using “Climate Change” as the battle cry to control the energy markets and energy dollars. Heavily taxing fossil fuels and “carbon tax” are pure money and control grabs cloaked in high-sounding principle. The Pope fell for this ruse and is being used as the justification for expanding government controls. Ask yourself, why it is that they don’t listen to the rest of what the pope has said, like protecting freedom of religion. Why is it that we aren’t hearing about The Little Sisters of the Poor? Why are we not hearing about how the Pope feels about selling fetal parts. Do you think that he would have voted with 175 Democrats to uphold the right to kill live fetuses for parts.
This is all about moral relativity. If you are going to use the Pope’s words to defend your positions, then use the entire context. -
A lot of what you said is reasonable
A huge problem I have is the Rights total attack on Science that doesn’t agree with their agenda. This changes the debate in a negative way that makes republicans look stupid and ties their hands when they try to form reasonable arguments to promote policies that would be acceptable to most people.
I agree totally that we should balance environmental effects with economic effects and really this is something that can be done
The problem is when Republican canidates are afraid to say the earth is older than 10000 yrs or climate change science is probably real or vaccinations do not cause autism
This war on science kills your party in the long run and one of the main reason I cant support it.
That being said, I have really heard nothing that this pope has said that I disagree with.
Politicizing what he says is a disservice to the message -
My faith and practice is not fundamental, it has always been about the mind of the church, which has had differing viewpoints from various holy fathers, but none which are contradictory or against the church — which is where the unity is.
The one holy catholic and apostolic church is the one that wrote the Nicene Creed and didn’t change it. You still don’t know; it’s unfortunate. -
Your insane
In your mind it is one way and it must always be adversarial to something while being non committal to your own beliefs.
You just like to argue
You are a strange dude -
The speaker JB shed some tears today
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Quote from aldadoc
Pope Francis is a good man. He just is not as smart or as schooled by life as pope John Paul II, who understood the evil of communism, the false promise of socialism and the advantages of a free and capitalist society. He had first hand knowledge of the failures of communism.
Too bad that the first Jesuit Pope would buy into the socialist and climate alarmist agenda. The Jesuits I dealt with in my youth were exceptional and highly educated men. I guess it’s ok to be a socialist if you are a Pope. Jesus was likely a socialist. It’s a good thing that we have separation of church and state..
The Roman Catholic church has changed its doctrine and practice (Vatican 1 and 2, examples par excellence) significantly within the last 2 centuries, to the point that in some places it is not even recognizable and you wouldn’t even know that Christ is supposedly the head of the church. Sometimes I’ve not even heard his name in services.
Notice that the Pope is called a Social Justice Warrior, which has been a major point of contention and schizophrenia within the RC church, as this mode of operation (of which the “orders” such as jesuit, etc. all contribute to) leads inevitably to progressive positions and policies, which are indeed anti-Christ (read: in place of Christ), of which there are many (as stated in John’s epistles). When you lead a kingdom (Vatican), you interact with other kingdoms in ways that are of this world, and as we see the state of the Catholic Church in America, it is very dangerous. This Church is unrecognizable from that of 50-70 years ago, and their “adherents” (an overwhelming majority) are lost in matters of both faith and practice. As I’ve said, you are supposed to be in the world, but not of the world. -
Quote from Thor
Calling something a “bold” prediction is code for I know its stupid but I will say it anyway. I disagree with the Pope on abortion but have respect for his views. He is a far cry better than any of the so-called Christian televangelists
Thor, a bold call is one where the “market” is signficantly odds against, that’s all.
High risk = high gain which is why I have 20-1 odds. What don’t you guys get about odds, markets and probability? Sometimes you guys are just strange. Always wanting to malign. -
Listening to the speech now. Pope Francis is pretty muchpraising Obama for the around and Cuba deals. 🙂
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It felt like a state of the Union address.
Partisan applause (despite the request for no applause) depending on what topic was favored. -
Quote from kpack123
Of course I do not agree with all of my Churches current stances because everything is open for interpretation. So what?
I don’t quite understand you Sharia comment so I will let you pretend to do whatever you are doing with that
I do find it amusing that you are so embarrassed of your faith that you refuse to state it………………not much of a faith then
And again if you consider gold a good or even a decent investment since your [i][u][b]BOLD [/b][/u][/i]prediction……………well I will just let that idiotic claim stand for itself
Are you aware of what the Church is historically and what the Catholic church claims to be, specifically? The point of the Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church (not Roman Catholicism) is that it is the body and Christ is the head. The Church wrote the “Bible”, assembled/compiled its reliable texts, and is a witness to the tradition passed down to the Apostles from Christ.
Your statement “everything is open for interpretation” is not only un-Roman Catholic, it makes no sense in any religious tradition, for there would be no reason to ever call yourself anything, then.
I’m not embarrassed about anything regarding my faith. I obviously am very well aware of it and have knowledge of its history and tradition. [b]I am [/b]wary of people like yourself you engage in motivation and ad-hominem type arguments. There is only one church that has never changed its doctrine and practice from the beginning, and you probably don’t know it, so what’s the point? You’ll just engage in mud-slinging, I think that’s why you foam at the mouth so trying to goad me into giving you fodder for future, personal attacks. -
Again state your religion if you are not embarrassed of it.
I think you are afraid to because then you would have to justify your views.
Im not sure what your brand of Catholicism is……………Your ranting makes no sense to me and Ive been a life long practicing catholic…….. But of course you know much more about my faith than I do.
and Wait a minute
Are you saying their is no disagreement in Your Religion…….everyone is on the same page and scripture is interpreted the same way
You have no idea what you are talking about
You have a picture in your head
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Quote from Frumious
God doesn’t matter in this Earth because it is “not his kingdom.”
Interesting. I think that would be considered heresy.
Wow, you really are clueless.-
Quote from Cigar
Quote from Frumious
God doesn’t matter in this Earth because it is “not his kingdom.”
Interesting. I think that would be considered heresy.
Wow, you really are clueless.
Pot. Kettle. Black.-
You got everything wrong, because you make everything in your head pop out, you don’t read or pay attention. God’s kingdom is here, you said it wasn’t, misquoted that even. “God doesn’t matter” is another invention you just made up to attribute to others (me?) yet I never said anything near it or like it.
Your logic and your reading comprehension are so poor, I wonder why you even bother posting here.
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Quote from dergon
Quote from Cigar
Francis has forgotten, already, that God’s kingdom is not of this world.
It’s really sad, actually. But that’s what you get from heretics who are also heads of state.
There is much dislike for this pope from the Right. An even smaller and more extreme sliver of the far right believe that Francis is a “heretic”, possibly representing an “anti-Pope”.
What are you saying? I’m not on the right, and I’m not extreme. The Bishop of Rome has been schismatic and heretical for over a century. I don’t dislike him. I’m not sure even what an Anti-Pope is. But he is a head of state, and it is interesting when he makes statements that have nothing to do with Jesus Christ and his church, all of a sudden the progressives come out of the woodworks loving the religious “leading.”
More picking and choosing.
And KPack, no one gets “Catholics” because they don’t even get themselves. I have not met one that agrees with the Church’s teachings, yet they still call themselves catholic and cheer for the schismatic bishop of Rome like a rock star, when he’s not even talking about the gospel. It’s really sad.-
Quote from Cigar
Quote from dergon
Quote from Cigar
Francis has forgotten, already, that God’s kingdom is not of this world.
It’s really sad, actually. But that’s what you get from heretics who are also heads of state.
There is much dislike for this pope from the Right. An even smaller and more extreme sliver of the far right believe that Francis is a “heretic”, possibly representing an “anti-Pope”.
What are you saying? I’m not on the right, and I’m not extreme. The Bishop of Rome has been schismatic and heretical for over a century. I don’t dislike him. I’m not sure even what an Anti-Pope is. But he is a head of state, and it is interesting when he makes statements that have nothing to do with Jesus Christ and his church, all of a sudden the progressives come out of the woodworks loving the religious “leading.”
More picking and choosing.
And KPack, no one gets “Catholics” because they don’t even get themselves. I have not met one that agrees with the Church’s teachings, yet they still call themselves catholic and cheer for the schismatic bishop of Rome like a rock star, when he’s not even talking about the gospel. It’s really sad.
I think it’s a stretch to call him a rock star, he’s a humble person. Would it be better to have a Pope that offers no guidance? Maybe he should just read a mass once a week and that would suffice for you.-
Cigar hates Catholics, Hates Muslims refuses to say what religion he is if any
Whats that tell you about him -
Quote from DICOM_Dan
I think it’s a stretch to call him a rock star, he’s a humble person. Would it be better to have a Pope that offers no guidance? Maybe he should just read a mass once a week and that would suffice for you.
He is treated like a rock star (thus my Elvis comment), that was my point. I’m not sure what guidance he is offering on this trip. “Climate change” and building up socialist paradises have nothing to do with christianity. If he were focused on enlightening people about the appropriate role of government, he might tell the Democrats that they should be ashamed of themselves for condoning abortion, let alone 3rd term abortions, which is anti-human and the pinnacle of disgusting. While we’re at it, let’s legalize infanticide.-
Quote from Cigar
Quote from DICOM_Dan
I think it’s a stretch to call him a rock star, he’s a humble person. Would it be better to have a Pope that offers no guidance? Maybe he should just read a mass once a week and that would suffice for you.
He is treated like a rock star (thus my Elvis comment), that was my point. I’m not sure what guidance he is offering on this trip. “Climate change” and building up socialist paradises have nothing to do with christianity. If he were focused on enlightening people about the appropriate role of government, he might tell the Democrats that they should be ashamed of themselves for condoning abortion, let alone 3rd term abortions, which is anti-human and the pinnacle of disgusting. While we’re at it, let’s legalize infanticide.
He’s treated like the Pope. I think this line from the Times states it pretty well ([link=http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/19/opinion/the-pope-and-climate-change.html?_r=0)]http://www.nytimes.com/20…mate-change.html?_r=0)[/link]
“Pope Francis clearly hopes, the beginning of the broad moral awakening necessary to persuade not just one billion Catholic faithful, but humanity at large, of our collective responsibility to pass along a clean and safe planet to future generations”
I don’t think it’s directed at the US government but a call to humanity at large. I’m with the Pope and think we do have a moral responsibility to take care of the earth.
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[link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BBNs_6_FXc4]https://www.youtube.com/w…dded&v=BBNs_6_FXc4[/link]
Awesome video montage of Right Wing pundits b*tchng about Pope Francis. -
Agree with Fareed Zakaria, the problem many have with the Pope is their problem with Jesus’s Gospel.
GAWD! Don’t you just hate it when atheists and Muslims preach a better Gospel than many so-called Christians?
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-main-message-of-pope-francis-and-jesus/2015/09/24/997e1e54-62ea-11e5-b38e-06883aacba64_story.html]https://www.washingtonpos…6883aacba64_story.html[/link]
When I came to the United States in the 1980s, I remember being surprised to see what Christian values had come to mean in American culture and politics heated debates over abortion, abstinence, contraception and gays. In 13 years of reading, reciting and studying the Bible, I didnt recall seeing much about these topics.
Thats because there is very little in there about them. As Garry Wills points out in his perceptive new book, [link=http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0525426965/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=0525426965&linkCode=as2&tag=thewaspos09-20&linkId=TK4PHSLZ4PN3MLUQ]The Future of the Catholic Church with Pope Francis[/link], Many of the most prominent and contested stands taken by Catholic authorities (most of them dealing with sex) have nothing to do with the Gospel.
If you want to understand the main message of Jesus Christ, you dont have to search the Scriptures. [link=http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Luke-6-20/]He says it again and again[/link]. Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.
Jesus has specific advice on how to handle the poor. Treat them as you would Christ himself, sell your possessions and give to the poor. When you hold a banquet, Jesus says, do not invite the wealthy and powerful, because you do so in the hope that they will return the favor and reward you. Instead, invite the dispossessed and you will be rewarded by God. It is because he expects so much from the rich that he said that it was easier for a camel to get through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get to heaven.
We live in a meritocratic age and believe that people who are successful are more admirable in some way than the rest of us. But [link=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ecclesiastes+9:11&version=KJV]the Bible notes that [/link]the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise … but time and chance happeneth to them all. In the Kingdom of Heaven,[link=http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Matthew-20-16/] it warns[/link], the last shall be first, and the first last. In other words, be thankful for your success, but dont think it makes you superior in any deep sense.
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he cleaned the stain of Bibi…thank god
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This from two non-Christians …
talk about weird.
Apart from the Church, the gospel and Jesus Christ can’t be understood in the way that you describe; it’s not even the purpose. That’s what is so problematic, Frumi — when you don’t know what the evangelion is, you fall into traps making it a political trap, which is made in your own image — what you want it to be, or what the culture of the age is, or you own ego, etc. That’s not what it is, or what it ever was.-
The New Testament was also selectively compiled from many more “books” and Gospels in the 4th Century. Many Gospels were rejected & declared heresies as well with many “heretics” killed for their beliefs. It is a designed document and a political one. Mark and Matthew, the 1st & 2nd Gospels are believed to have been written decades after the death of Jesus and reflect the changed politics of the time of writing as well. The early Christians had many variations of this “single” belief today called Christianity.
There is no “pure” Christian belief, only the accepted orthodox one. The 1 thing consistent between all the Gospels is that Jesus walked with and preached to the poor and rejected, not the rich and successful. Not until Constantine gave Christianity a political presence and power did that really change.
There are volumes you don’t understand about the early Church I’ll wager.-
My tradition is the early church so I’m aware of volumes. It is typically the western that doesn’t have any idea, mostly because if they are Catholic, it has been hidden from them, and if they are Protestant, they think Christianity began in the 16th century.
Certainly many books were considered unreliable or outright wrong, that’s the point of the canon. Heretics being killed for their beliefs is a Hollywood effect you decided to throw in their which has nothing to do with the biblical canon, just your imagination for effect on others who don’t know any better.
Yes, the gospels you point out were written after the death of Jesus, which just shows that the Church existed before the so-called bible, another important point.
You said,
“The 1 thing consistent between all the Gospels is that Jesus walked with and preached to the poor and rejected, not the rich and successful. Not until Constantine gave Christianity a political presence and power did that really change.”
As much as you might think, I’m not your adversary, but I will not let you try to pass off falsities as true. Jesus did indeed walk with the poor and rejected, but he[i] [b]also[/b] [/i]walked with the rich and successful. Ever hear of Zacchaeus? Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea were well off and politcally connected. Matthew was also a tax collector. Your canard is given ad nauseum and is false. He calls sinners (everyone) to repentance but of course teaches how [i]many things[/i] can interfere with coming closer to God (yes, one of those is wealth).
Your Constantine line is generic, suggestive, and probably (you haven’t explained your position) false — especially since you got so much wrong before it.-
And what exactly have you explained?
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Did you fail to read my posts? It specifically deals with your “points”
How you come to conclusions first and then search for the facts or “truth” to support how you want the world to be. Your conclusions are incorrect, and most of your facts were, as well.
I’m certain a 3rd party who reads in order to understand, not argue, sees that you can’t come to the accurate conclusion with incorrect facts. Beyond that, you can’t seek truth and reality through desiring that they be bent to your will.-
[link=https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/redirect-to/?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fapnews.com%2Farticle%2Fpope-francis-vatican-conservatives-abortion-us-bbfc346c117bd9ae68a1963478bea6b3]Pope says ‘backward’ U.S. conservatives have replaced faith with ideology | AP News[/link]
He is right.
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Yes, it’s the Conservatives who are the problem.
What else is new?
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