[kayla.meyer_144]

Change is coming.
 
The biggest fear from the republicans is not so much the union itself, an adversarial relationship & therefore easy to target & blame, but the VW version where workers and managers cooperate.

[kaldridgewv2211]

I don’t understand why we have a law that won’t allow them to setup a company union/work counsel unless they are unionized.  It’s a law that protects the unions.
 
In Germany I believe those are the work counsels.  I don’t see why there needs to be a union/counsel for workers and management to work together.  That seems like it should be a given in a good management structure.

[kayla.meyer_144]

It appears “Joe the Plumber,” the anti-union, anti-Obama tea-bagger who claimed Obama was possibly forcing Joe to close down his non-existent plumbing business is now a union man working for that bailed out company, Chrysler. Oh, he was against that too! If not for the bail-out and everything else joe is against, Joe would still be unemployed instead of receiving living wages through a union.
 
Reality bites. But Joe will never be smart enough to realize he’s been bitten since he is angry & against everything that provides him & others like him with jobs. You just can’t make this stuff up.
 
[link=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2014/02/18/joe-the-plumber-gets-a-new-job/]http://www.washingtonpost…lumber-gets-a-new-job/[/link]
 
The comments are priceless.
 
 

[eyoab2011_711]

Certainly just as priceless as Bob Corker and the Tennessee teahadists who wants the govt off the backs of businesssticking their noses into VW’s business decisions

[19462008]

The artical states “he had to join the UAW” for the job. How Draconian.
 
A company has work for me and a 3rd party entity not in anyway related to the company,  tells me I must join their club, pay a monthly do to them; and let them spend part of my monthly dues to their political agenda or else I can’t work their? Yet everytime I hear or see a strike, the worker is still getting it in the keyster. Sounds like Paulie and Vinnie from the neighborhood are working there.
 

[kayla.meyer_144]

There are no non-union jobs available?
 
I know, I know, you want all the benefits of being in a union, where you individually are on equal terms with the employer, where the union will negotiate terms, wages and benefits with the employer providing a list of rules that “both sides” must abide by (a contract) as well as represent you in grievances but they should do it for free.

[eyoab2011_711]

Just more vintage red state freeloading…give the benefits but non of the cost

[ruszja]

The options for the VW workers were to have their town look more like Smyrna,TN or Detroit,MI. They chose Smyrna.

[Unknown Member]

Quote from fw

The options for the VW workers were to have their town look more like Smyrna,TN or Detroit,MI. They chose Smyrna.

Exactly. The VW workers voted against the UAW doing to their town what they did to Detroit.
 
 

[eyoab2011_711]

Which is why Corker and friends spent so much money to frustrate VW.  I guess TN is hostile to business interest–time to build those SUVs elsewhere
 
[link=http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2014/feb/21/volkswagen-faces-uaw-suv-decisions/]http://www.timesfreepress…ces-uaw-suv-decisions/[/link]
 
[link=http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/uaw-loses-volkswagen-vote–should-we-care–160128679.html]http://finance.yahoo.com/…e-care–160128679.html[/link]

[19462008]

Quote from Frumious

There are no non-union jobs available?

I know, I know, you want all the benefits of being in a union, where you individually are on equal terms with the employer, where the union will negotiate terms, wages and benefits with the employer providing a list of rules that “both sides” must abide by (a contract) as well as represent you in grievances but they should do it for free.

Are you in the union where you work at Frumi? I bet not. Are you not getting what you want? Then leave. How about pro-right union agency asking you to give them money to make sure, you can come in late without reprocussions, slack on doing your job correctly, but then they decide to take parts of your dues to support the Tea Party. Ahhh the liberal elitists…. the “whatcha, shoulda, coulda group.
Threre are many Fat Cats in upper Union management.
 
I have a question to many on this post, should healthcare workers also by unionized? I’ve experienced both sides in the Technologist realm across the U.S.

[Unknown Member]

It’s always frustrating to hear someone say [i]”If you don’t like your job then QUIT and find another one!”[/i] as if jobs are growing on trees. Surely there are other solutions. A century ago, if[i] “quit, and find another job”[/i] was the prevalent philosophy, there would be no OSHA today, and minimum wage would still be $2.35/hr. 
Regarding your question about unions, I was never pro-union.
I happen to agree with the VW workers that unions killed Detroit. 
Unions no longer serve their original purpose and, instead, use their power for all the wrong reasons. They’ve become exploitive, way beyond “fair”. 
 
 

[kayla.meyer_144]

Quote from CudaRad

Are you in the union where you work at Frumi? I bet not. Are you not getting what you want? Then leave. How about pro-right union agency asking you to give them money to make sure, you can come in late without reprocussions, slack on doing your job correctly, but then they decide to take parts of your dues to support the Tea Party. Ahhh the liberal elitists…. the “whatcha, shoulda, coulda group.
Threre are many Fat Cats in upper Union management.

I have a question to many on this post, should healthcare workers also by unionized? I’ve experienced both sides in the Technologist realm across the U.S.

My position is not union eligible and further my hospital is not unionized, a zero factor in why I work here as I have worked in many other union hospitals before. Further I have been a union member in earlier positions and am proud of my work and membership then, I have zero to apologize for or to hide from. And you are correct, if you have a thing about being a union member, there are hospitals & areas that are not organized. “Fat Cats?” The Officers I knew, and I knew them well did make more than I did but they were by no means rich & their salaries were pegged to the members’ salaries as were their raises. And if there was a strike they also were not paid for as long as the strike lasted. What union did you belong to?
 
As for “[i]pro-right union agency asking you to give them money to make sure, [u]you can come in late without reprocussions, slack on doing your job correctly[/u][/i],” no. There is no such animal unless management itself is just as corrupt. I have been part of many cases where people not doing their job or consistently late or absent were disciplined and/or terminated or allowed to resign. What union have you belonged to where slacking is a norm? When I was a teen-ager I worked in the shipyards as a union member & did see a lot of abuse but I also saw a management that worked hand in hand to sink the company by mismanagement. It used to be Bethlehem Steel. It wasn’t the union that killed Bethlehem Steel, by no means.
 
There is no reason why hospital workers should not unionize. In fact your salary (and benefits) was affected in a positive manner by unionized members’ contracts since the 1960’s. At one time being a tech was “women’s work” and all the negative connotations that phrase was meant to convey.

[Unknown Member]

I would imagine many of us had a union experience at one point in our life. In my situation, it was a retail union and I worked the floor at a major nationwide department store. The union went on a two week strike for a measly 5 cents/hour. We did get the nickel raise. But as a union working making $5/hr (the minimum wage at the time was $2.00), the $400 I lost in those 2 weeks meant that I would need to work 1,000 full-time work days (more than[i] THREE YEARS)[/i] with that nickel raise to make up all the loss.
 
Now, I was only working summers between school years so it didn’t affect me that much, but it was a ridiculous hardship for the full timers who depended on that money as a living wage. My loyal union worker buddies tried to rationalize it with the old[i] “yeah, but it’s the standard of living that counts”[/i] but I saw right through that when I did the math.
 
Surely the company laughed all the way to the bank with the interest it collected for years on those 2 weeks of delayed payroll. 
 
Today it’s just the opposite; we have riveters on the line in Detroit making over $100k and not willing to take a single digit % cut in pay to help their employer stay solvent. No one gets the last laugh in that kind of deal. 
 
 

[xavivillagran_893]

Quote from CudaRad

The artical states “he had to join the UAW” for the job. How Draconian.

A company has work for me and a 3rd party entity not in anyway related to the company,  tells me I must join their club, pay a monthly do to them; and let them spend part of my monthly dues to their political agenda or else I can’t work their? Yet everytime I hear or see a strike, the worker is still getting it in the keyster. Sounds like Paulie and Vinnie from the neighborhood are working there.

Cuda, its called a closed shop.
Ive worked in both environments and see pros and cons to both. The main thing I see is that unions breed mediocrity. While you can discipline bad behavior, its difficult to reward or promote an employee not based on seniority.
 

[ruszja]

Interesting new development:
 
[link=http://nationalreport.net/volkswagen-close-chattanooga-plant-following-anti-union-vote-state-lose-13k-jobs/]http://nationalreport.net…e-state-lose-13k-jobs/[/link]
 
In related news, Kim Jong Un still sexiest man alive.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Not closing the plant but questions whether another plant could be opened in the American South.
 
[link=http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/19/us-vw-usplant-idUSBREA1I0S820140219]http://www.reuters.com/ar…-idUSBREA1I0S820140219[/link]
 

Chattanooga is VW’s only factory in the U.S. and one of the company’s few in the world without a works council.
“I can imagine fairly well that another VW factory in the United States, provided that one more should still be set up there, does not necessarily have to be assigned to the south again,” said Bernd Osterloh, head of VW’s works council.
“If co-determination isn’t guaranteed in the first place, we as workers will hardly be able to vote in favor” of potentially building another plant in the U.S. south, Osterloh, who is also on VW’s supervisory board, said.
The 20-member panel – evenly split between labor and management – has to approve any decision on closing plants or building new ones.
Osterloh’s comments were published on Wednesday in German newspaper Sueddeutsche Zeitung. A spokesman at the Wolfsburg-based works council confirmed the remarks.

 
 

[ruszja]

Quote from Frumious

Not closing the plant but questions whether another plant could be opened in the American South.

[link=http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/19/us-vw-usplant-idUSBREA1I0S820140219]http://www.reuters.com/ar…-idUSBREA1I0S820140219[/link]

Chattanooga is VW’s only factory in the U.S. and one of the company’s few in the world without a works council.
“I can imagine fairly well that another VW factory in the United States, provided that one more should still be set up there, does not necessarily have to be assigned to the south again,” said Bernd Osterloh, head of VW’s works council.
“If co-determination isn’t guaranteed in the first place, we as workers will hardly be able to vote in favor” of potentially building another plant in the U.S. south, Osterloh, who is also on VW’s supervisory board, said.
The 20-member panel – evenly split between labor and management – has to approve any decision on closing plants or building new ones.
Osterloh’s comments were published on Wednesday in German newspaper Sueddeutsche Zeitung. A spokesman at the Wolfsburg-based works council confirmed the remarks.

 
Osterloh hasn’t done a day of productive work since 1977 when he became a full-time apparatchik. Just the kind of empty bloviating you would expect from a union drone.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Quote from walshnuc

Cuda, its called a closed shop.
Ive worked in both environments and see pros and cons to both. The main thing I see is that unions breed mediocrity. While you can discipline bad behavior, its difficult to reward or promote an employee not based on seniority.

Contractual rules like any rules are there for a reason. They were not invented just because labor merely wanted to make running businesses more difficult, they were put in place as anti-discrimination rules. Or safety. I’ve worked on both sides & having a union can be a convenient excuse for lazy incompetent management. While seniority can’t be outright ignored people can be promoted or rewarded even if they have less seniority than others, nothing blocks that. The contract and rules is agreed to by both management & the union.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Quote from fw

The options for the VW workers were to have their town look more like Smyrna,TN or Detroit,MI. They chose Smyrna.

I’m glad you never allow your prejudices to blind you. Why not look like Wolfsburg?

[19462008]

Quote from Frumious

Quote from CudaRad

Are you in the union where you work at Frumi? I bet not. Are you not getting what you want? Then leave. How about pro-right union agency asking you to give them money to make sure, you can come in late without reprocussions, slack on doing your job correctly, but then they decide to take parts of your dues to support the Tea Party. Ahhh the liberal elitists…. the “whatcha, shoulda, coulda group.
Threre are many Fat Cats in upper Union management.

I have a question to many on this post, should healthcare workers also by unionized? I’ve experienced both sides in the Technologist realm across the U.S.

My position is not union eligible and further my hospital is not unionized, a zero factor in why I work here as I have worked in many other union hospitals before. Further I have been a union member in earlier positions and am proud of my work and membership then, I have zero to apologize for or to hide from. And you are correct, if you have a thing about being a union member, there are hospitals & areas that are not organized. “Fat Cats?” The Officers I knew, and I knew them well did make more than I did but they were by no means rich & their salaries were pegged to the members’ salaries as were their raises. And if there was a strike they also were not paid for as long as the strike lasted. What union did you belong to?

As for “[i]pro-right union agency asking you to give them money to make sure, [u]you can come in late without reprocussions, slack on doing your job correctly[/u][/i],” no. There is no such animal unless management itself is just as corrupt. I have been part of many cases where people not doing their job or consistently late or absent were disciplined and/or terminated or allowed to resign. What union have you belonged to where slacking is a norm? When I was a teen-ager I worked in the shipyards as a union member & did see a lot of abuse but I also saw a management that worked hand in hand to sink the company by mismanagement. It used to be Bethlehem Steel. It wasn’t the union that killed Bethlehem Steel, by no means.

There is no reason why hospital workers should not unionize. In fact your salary (and benefits) was affected in a positive manner by unionized members’ contracts since the 1960’s. At one time being a tech was “women’s work” and all the negative connotations that phrase was meant to convey.

From my experience and travels, California, both in SF and LA areas provide the worst example of great patient care (or lack of) because of their Union. I work and train directly with floor techs and their Managers… No one..seriously, no one goes the extra mile for the patient. 
 
You made the statement that my salary and benefits were affected by unionized members. Then if so, why hasn’t the ARRT and ASRT classified Radiology Techs as “Professionals” like an LPN who actually is considered a professional within the guidelines of hospital HR and classification even thought they only have an A.S? I don’t believe the Unions had anything to do with males becoming more present in the department. It’s a fact of rotation and employment stability within the workforce. Female nursing staff and other professionals, have always been the one’s that take a leave of absence to raise their children. Some return and some don’t.  Though, the ratio still favors Females. 

[eyoab2011_711]

Osterloh hasn’t done a day of productive work since 1977 when he became a full-time apparatchik. Just the kind of empty bloviating you would expect from a union drone.

 
Sure and the CEOs and corporate boards are paragons of work ethic.  Just think how hard the Koch Brothers worked to inherit daddy’s money.  Why was the state and Corker meddling in a private corporate matter anyway?

[kayla.meyer_144]

Quote from CudaRad

From my experience and travels, California, both in SF and LA areas provide the worst example of great patient care (or lack of) because of their Union. I work and train directly with floor techs and their Managers… No one..seriously, no one goes the extra mile for the patient. 

You made the statement that my salary and benefits were affected by unionized members. Then if so, why hasn’t the ARRT and ASRT classified Radiology Techs as “Professionals” like an LPN who actually is considered a professional within the guidelines of hospital HR and classification even thought they only have an A.S? I don’t believe the Unions had anything to do with males becoming more present in the department. It’s a fact of rotation and employment stability within the workforce. Female nursing staff and other professionals, have always been the one’s that take a leave of absence to raise their children. Some return and some don’t.  Though, the ratio still favors Females. 

You mean the only time you’ve seen no one going the “extra mile for the patient” is when the staff is unionized? 
 
I doubt that. I’ve seen otherwise and the argument is irrelevant to organizing into a union.
 
As for techs vs RNs/LPNs or Associate degrees vs more advanced, how does that uphold or create an argument for organizing or against? Again, it’s irrelevant to the issue of organizing into a union. 

[19462008]

Quote from Frumious

Quote from CudaRad

From my experience and travels, California, both in SF and LA areas provide the worst example of great patient care (or lack of) because of their Union. I work and train directly with floor techs and their Managers… No one..seriously, no one goes the extra mile for the patient. 

You made the statement that my salary and benefits were affected by unionized members. Then if so, why hasn’t the ARRT and ASRT classified Radiology Techs as “Professionals” like an LPN who actually is considered a professional within the guidelines of hospital HR and classification even thought they only have an A.S? I don’t believe the Unions had anything to do with males becoming more present in the department. It’s a fact of rotation and employment stability within the workforce. Female nursing staff and other professionals, have always been the one’s that take a leave of absence to raise their children. Some return and some don’t.  Though, the ratio still favors Females. 

You mean the only time you’ve seen no one going the “extra mile for the patient” is when the staff is unionized? 

I doubt that. I’ve seen otherwise and the argument is irrelevant to organizing into a union.

As for techs vs RNs/LPNs or Associate degrees vs more advanced, how does that uphold or create an argument for organizing or against? Again, it’s irrelevant to the issue of organizing into a union. 

Basically… Yes. the most of the time. Unionized Techs (the majority of them), when asked by management to help in other department areas or stay over, always play the “This is not part of my Job” card and actually burden their fellow techs and tell management to contact their Union Rep if they don’t like it. In addition, lateral departments can’t instruct nor order such Union techs to perform their job correctly. e.g. PACS Admin telling technologist that they must use Modality Worklists instead of keying Patient info by hand. The PACS Admin has no authority to instruct this action but to only tell the Supv, who has to tell the tech, who still won’t do it and not get disciplined. It’s a Revolving door of “It’s all about me”. I’ve seen it and heard multiple times at multiple sites for many years. Non Union Techs, (maybe because of job loss fear) seem to be willing to do extra or go out of scope when asked by Management and heed to the better good of the Enterprise vs themselves. Do they rebel, yes.. but they get disciplined faster and seem to come around and do their job better OR… they’re replaced. 
 
As far as the tech vs. RN statement: [i]You made the earlier comment about my salary and benefits were affected by unionized members going back to the 60’s.[/i] If that’s true, then why hasn’t the Unions try to promote technologist in our industry to Professional level, like other Unions have done for nursing since the 60’s. Ands it’s not irrelevant, Unions want to appear as being the saving grace of an industry that does not need to be saved. But yet, they either don’t have the capabilities or don’t care to improve their members titles. Which is ignorant. Higher title = higher pay = higher dues.   

[kayla.meyer_144]

“The majority of them…”
 
“Help out” and “staying over” doesn’t say much. You mean the union techs unload responsibilities on the non-union techs? The PACS Admin having no authority has nothing to do with the union & everything to do with management and his/her level of authority.
 
If the union techs or others are not doing their jobs it has zero to do with having a contract & has everything to do with management not doing their jobs. Management should be fired & should hire someone who knows what they are doing.

[19462008]

[b]”Help out” and “Staying over” doesn’t say much. You mean the union techs unload responsbilities on the non-union techs? The PACS Admin having no authority has nothing to do with the union & everyting to do with management and his/her leve of authority.[/b]
[b] [/b]
It’s evident you’e never been a Floor Tech, Chief Tech nor a Dept Supervisor. [u][i]It’s called Patient FIRST Frumi, PATIENT FIRST! not Technologist FIRST![/i][/u] Unions are Technologists driven FIRST. Unions could care less about Patient outcomes. Let me give you one sample of observation:
 
Union Shop Hospital
1. CT scanner was down for repair, two techs were assigned to that room. It was late morning.
2. Flu was running ramped through their department, on floor staff was limited due to Flu call ins.
3. Supervisor asked one of the two techs if either one could help out with just basic walking in Chest Xrays, simple hands, feet and so on. (county hospital) so the remaining ‘Union” techs could take care of ER, Portables and other STATs.
4.   Both technologist said. “No”. asked why by their Supervisor, their responses were… “We are assigned here as CT Techs, it’s not our problem that the Scanner went down, it’s not our Job to perform other duties out of our modality”. after being threatend with disciplinary action, they both said. “Don’t care, call our Union Rep”.
5. As a vendor, and a witness, I was asked to provide my statement on the situation.
 
Conclusion:
1. The Bozos are still working there. (this was 5 years ago and I still visit the account)
2. They did not help out their fellow Union Techs. Because they didn’t have to. They didn’t care.
3. Told by management, the incident could not be be a part of their record. Contract stated they had to work within the scope of their specific field i.e. CT Modality only.
 
Thats my point. Don’t trust the atmosphere of Unionized Technologists. First of all, they [b]don’t need one.[/b]

[ruszja]

Quote from CudaRad

3. Supervisor asked one of the two techs if either one could help out with just basic walking in Chest Xrays, simple hands, feet and so on. (county hospital) so the remaining ‘Union” techs could take care of ER, Portables and other STATs.
4.   Both technologist said. “No”. asked why by their Supervisor, their responses were… “We are assigned here as CT Techs, it’s not our problem that the Scanner went down, it’s not our Job to perform other duties out of our modality”. after being threatend with disciplinary action, they both said. “Don’t care, call our Union Rep”. [b].[/b]

 
Lol, I think I know that hospital. The place could be burning down and the two CT bozos wouldn’t pick up a fire extinguisher as it is not in their job description.
 
But then, had they ‘helped out’, some other union-bozo would have written them up for exceeding their job description and depriving someone on the diagnostic side of their time and a half for staying past their shift or a call-out fee. The ‘flu’ was probably an unofficial sick-out anyway.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Underscores my argument, what is management being paid for? “Asked” them to do their jobs? The employees should have been disciplined leading to termination if necessary.
 
Bogus arguments.

[ruszja]

Quote from Frumious

Underscores my argument, what is management being paid for? “Asked” them to do their jobs? The employees should have been disciplined leading to termination if necessary.

 
Fired ? A union employee ? For refusing to exceed the scope of his job description ?
 
Despite what you profess here, it doesn’t look like you have ever worked in a hospital subject to the yoke of healthcare union rules.

[kayla.meyer_144]

fw, you don’t know what you are talking about. Sorry for being blunt.
 
Clarification, I have worked at many hospitals, both union & non-union & mixed and I have seen many bad employees fired for cause. Who belonged to a union. A strong union.
 
 

[ruszja]

Quote from Frumious

Clarification, I have worked at many hospitals, both union & non-union & mixed and I have seen many bad employees fired for cause. Who belonged to a union. A strong union.

 
What would be the ’cause’. Not working outside of their assigned pidgeon-hole when a supervisor told them to ?

[kayla.meyer_144]

Quote from fw

Quote from Frumious

Clarification, I have worked at many hospitals, both union & non-union & mixed and I have seen many bad employees fired for cause. Who belonged to a union. A strong union.

What would be the ’cause’. Not working outside of their assigned pidgeon-hole when a supervisor told them to ?

Duh.
 
Don’t blame a union if one has a self-mutilating eunuch of a management. There are no contract clauses that say an employer must keep on workers who don’t show up or don’t work when they do show.

[ruszja]

Quote from Frumious

Don’t blame a union if one has a self-mutilating eunuch of a management. There are no contract clauses that say an employer must keep on workers who don’t show up or don’t work when they do show.

 
They were asked to do something in violation of the union contract. It is like asking a union electrician to do some basic masonry work. There is nothing the employer can do.

[Unknown Member]

Quote from fw

Quote from Frumious

Don’t blame a union if one has a self-mutilating eunuch of a management. There are no contract clauses that say an employer must keep on workers who don’t show up or don’t work when they do show.

They were asked to do something in violation of the union contract. It is like asking a union electrician to do some basic masonry work. There is nothing the employer can do.

That’s a pretty drastic analogy. Can you back that up with a specific example of a work order being that far out of scope?

[eyoab2011_711]

I hope FW will show a union contract that says the person assigned to CT cannot be reassigned to another radiology area for which they are qualified and can refuse without consequences.  It is managements fault if they let people fet away with this behavior

[Unknown Member]

Quote from Thor

I hope FW will show a union contract that says the person assigned to CT cannot be reassigned to another radiology area for which they are qualified and can refuse without consequences.  It is managements fault if they let people fet away with this behavior

That’s one reason I’ve grown sour on unions. They’ve outlived their usefulness now that we have OSHA. Regardless of whether they impose ridiculous restrictions in the employer’s operation or cause employers to fear beyond reason, unions are using their collective strength more and more for the wrong reasons. I’m convinced it’s what killed Detroit.
 
 

[kayla.meyer_144]

Quote from Lux

Quote from Thor

I hope FW will show a union contract that says the person assigned to CT cannot be reassigned to another radiology area for which they are qualified and can refuse without consequences.  It is managements fault if they let people fet away with this behavior

That’s one reason I’ve grown sour on unions. They’ve outlived their usefulness now that we have OSHA. Regardless of whether they impose ridiculous restrictions in the employer’s operation or cause employers to fear beyond reason, unions are using their collective strength more and more for the wrong reasons. I’m convinced it’s what killed Detroit.

I don’t fully agree. There are still stinker employers out there. I recall hearing of a Dir of HR I knew but didn’t care for referring to RNs during negotiations with their union as little more important than the plumbers he hires and fires to fix the toilet. True story. Inflamed the process to force a strike & he got his wish. He truly loved his employees in his own way I’m sure. The RNs never had any problems finding temp work & he brought in scabs. When the dust settled the hospital was not in better shape & left behind a lot of bad feelings to what was a community hospital and he was fired after the strike.
 
What I think has to be done however is change the adversary relationship where possible to something that VW wanted to implement. But I don’t see employers rushing to do that either as it’s a matter of control and sharing control is not something employers want to do generally with employees. And generally speaking in this labor market where there are 20 or more applicants for every single job and employees are seen as relatively unimportant and replaceable, I don’t see a rush to make worker-management committees. You can read such in the posts in AM where one group belittles others as less important if not downright stupid.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Quote from Lux

That’s one reason I’ve grown sour on unions. They’ve outlived their usefulness now that we have OSHA. Regardless of whether they impose ridiculous restrictions in the employer’s operation or cause employers to fear beyond reason, unions are using their collective strength more and more for the wrong reasons. I’m convinced it’s what killed Detroit.

So much for unions outliving their usefulness. Study called Free Rider States shows that “right to work” states make lower wages & use more of entitlement programs than other states.
 
[link=http://www.ler.illinois.edu/labor/ILEPI-LEP%20Free-Rider%20States_FINAL.pdf]http://www.ler.illinois.e…der%20States_FINAL.pdf[/link]
 

Right-to-work laws have negative impacts on the public budget. First, a RTW law reduces worker earnings from wages and salaries by 3.2 percent on average. As a result, even though employment increases by a small amount (+0.4 percentage points) and employees work slightly more hours per week (+0.6 hours) and weeks per year (+0.4 weeks), workers have less money to spend in the economy and contribute toward tax revenues. Second, a RTW policy decreases both the labor force participation rate (-0.5 percentage points) of the population and the union membership rate (-9.6 percentage points). Working-age residents who drop out of the labor force depend on government assistance; a decline in union membership diminishes the positive effects of unionization which keep workers off of public assistance and allow them to support a family. Finally, a RTW law lowers the after-credit federal income tax liability of workers by 11.1 percent, lowers the share of workers who are covered by a health insurance plan by 3.5 percentage points, and lowers the share of workers who are covered by a pension plan by 3.0 percentage points. Meanwhile, RTW raises the poverty rate, increasing government spending on food stamps and the Earned Income Tax Credit. RTW, therefore, decreases government revenues from workers but increases government spending on workers. 

 
Workers in CB states are subsidizing the low-wage model of employment in RTW states. While workers in RTW states account for 37.4 percent of all federal income tax revenues before credits and deductions, they receive 41.9 percent of all non-health, non-retirement government assistance. Workers in RTW states receive $0.232 in non-health, non-retirement government assistance per dollar of federal income tax contributions compared to $0.187 per dollar for each worker in a CB state. 

 
Right-to-work laws have overall negative impacts for American workers. RTW laws promote free-riding at both the microeconomic level and the macroeconomic level. They allow workers to free-ride on the efforts of their peers in a collective bargaining unit and, by reducing worker incomes, allow poorer RTW states to free-ride on the higher income tax revenues generated by workers in CB states. Right-to-work laws weaken state economies and strain public budgets. 

 
Not exactly rocket science news.
 

 

[kayla.meyer_144]

Quote from fw

Quote from Frumious

Don’t blame a union if one has a self-mutilating eunuch of a management. There are no contract clauses that say an employer must keep on workers who don’t show up or don’t work when they do show.

They were asked to do something in violation of the union contract. It is like asking a union electrician to do some basic masonry work. There is nothing the employer can do.

Like what? Rotate from CT to X-ray? OR? Portables? I’d like to see some contract that says a tech can’t rotate out of “their” area to another that they are trained and licensed for. The most you might see regards RNs being pulled from a Med-Surg to an ICU but even that limitation is limited. So using your example of an electrician doing masonry work, yes, if a CT or X-ray tech is “asked” to cover MRI but they don’t know MRI, then it is reasonable for them to question the order. But it has zero to do with any contract clause.

[btomba_77]

[h1]Biden Task Force Moves to Strengthen Labor Unions[/h1]  
[link=https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-business-kamala-harris-labor-unions-5a0ff5316fc9f02b485cf832e25af952]AP[/link]

A Biden administration task force on organized labor on Monday issued [link=https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/21198625-white-house-task-force-worker-organizing-and-empowerment-report]a set of recommendations[/link] that could make it easier for federal workers and contractors to unionize.

The report argues that a decades-long drop in [link=https://apnews.com/hub/labor-unions]union membership[/link] has coincided with a rising share of income going to the top 10% of earners. It further says that most Americans have a favorable impression of unions and would join one if given the option in a vote. Yet the Labor Department reported last month that only 10.3% of workers belonged to a union in 2021, down from 20.1% in 1983.

Many of the proposals to increase unionization are specific directions focused on the federal government as an employer. The Interior Department is among four agencies that will now let union organizers talk with employees on federal property, a rule that applies to private-sector employees on contract with the government.
 
The departments of Transportation and Commerce will set preferences and guidelines for federal grants to foster union jobs.
 
There will be a ban on federal contract dollars going to anti-union activities by the Defense, Health and Human Services and Labor departments as well as the Office of Management and Budget.
 
Other proposals include efforts to improve workers awareness of their rights and to enforce existing labor laws. The task force plans to submit a follow-up report in six months to describe how agencies are implementing the policies and to issue new recommendations.
 
 

[kayla.meyer_144]

“has coincided with,” as if that was not the actual design purpose. The statement infers that the 2 issues were unconnected and merely coincidental.

[satyanar]

Market forces are in workers favor for the first time in a very long time. I would guess this will be more powerful than joining a union. 

[katiemckee84_223]

Unions are about workers, right Thread? ha

[kayla.meyer_144]

Holding employers to account.
 
[link=https://gothamist.com/news/ny-home-care-workers-awarded-30-million-unpaid-wages]https://gothamist.com/new…0-million-unpaid-wages[/link]
 

For years, New Yorks home health aides have been arguing that they have [link=https://www.villagevoice.com/2018/08/02/round-the-clock-care-half-the-clock-pay/]not been fairly compensated[/link] for 24-hour shifts. In a landmark decision, an arbitrator ruled Friday that 42 home care staffing agencies must pay $30 million into a special wage fund to compensate workers who were underpaid for these shifts and for other assignments dating as far back as 2008.
 
The award covers more than 100,000 current and former home care workers represented by the union 1199SEIU.
 
This is a win for 1199 home care workers and our families, and I am proud to be a part of the fight to make sure 24-hour workers are paid more fairly, Argelis Sanchez, one of the impacted workers, said in a statement via the union.
 
Many of the workers claims stem from a state policy allowing them to be paid for 13 hours of a 24-hour shift. Under the law, aides are supposed to get eight hours of sleep at least five of which are uninterrupted and three hours for meals during each 24-hour shift spent in an elderly or disabled clients home. But over the past several years, current and former home care workers have filed multiple class-action lawsuits against their employers saying they did not get the requisite sleep and meal time under the law, or the extra pay they were owed as a result.
 
Some New York home care workers say employers continue to fail to compensate them for all hours worked during a 24-hour shift, and many want to [link=https://gothamist.com/news/home-health-care-workers-call-hochul-end-24-hour-shifts]end 24-hour shifts[/link] altogether, arguing that it is safer and more fair to break them up.

 
 

[stlmchenry_510]

I think what Im just saying is that a union doesnt make much sense to me for transient hourly employees.

[stlmchenry_510]

Which in my experience are the majority of Starbucks workers. For the majority, this is not a career.

[stlmchenry_510]

I know nothing about Starbucks wages or benefits to comment on that. But if prices keep going up they will lose business and have to shutter storesthen poofno jobs at all.

[btomba_77]

Said management of every company under union pressure ever

[stlmchenry_510]

Eh, unions are plus minus. Ive had relatives that have had good experiences with them after a lot of headache and others have said theyre basically useless. I think it depends on the specific circumstance and union.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Unions aint what they used to be, corrupt & controlled by organized crime like the Teamsters or dock workers and were much larger & influential. When I worked on the docks back in the day the union was useless & corrupt. Since then I had much better experience working with 1199, healthcare union. Founded by Leon Davis, a pharmacist who organized the transient & poor healthcare workers like janitors & aides, soda jerks, Blacks, Hispanics, etc. then everyone associated in healthcare, people too unimportant for real trade unions. A lefty organization organizing the unimportant people no one wanted or thought much of.
 
Everything old is new again.
 
[link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1199:_The_National_Health_Care_Workers%27_Union]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1199:_The_National_Health_Care_Workers%27_Union[/link]

[kayla.meyer_144]

[link=https://capitalandmain.com/20-reasons-to-thank-labor-unions]https://capitalandmain.com/20-reasons-to-thank-labor-unions[/link]

[stlmchenry_510]

My family has had to go through unions several times. Once it was helpful. The rest of the time they said they were basically useless. It sounds so great on paper-all this protection of workers rights. In reality, unions often seem to have very little real bargaining power or means to make positive changes for employees but are happy to collect their employees dues at the end of the day. I had a relative who had a very good outcome with the teachers Union protecting her maternity leave-this was after much headache on her part during a time when she shouldnt have had to deal with that type of problem. Ive never dealt with unions but it most other cases where my family has, theyve said they were basically useless.

[ruszja]

Quote from Picasso01

I know nothing about Starbucks wages or benefits to comment on that. But if prices keep going up they will lose business and have to shutter storesthen poofno jobs at all.

The unions bank on people who are gullible enough to pay $5 for a cup of coffee paying $5.50.

[kayla.meyer_144]

The identical argument could be made for opposing wage increases at McDonalds or Walmart or Amazon, while forgetting that these companies are very highly profitable for their investors & owners. 
 
Once upon a time a few decades ago, these type of workers made actual living wages AND their investors and owners/CEOs were still very wealthy. The idea that the workers were being overpaid therefore making their products too ludicrously expensive & impoverishing CEOs & investors would have been laughed at as too silly.

[stlmchenry_510]

I know nothing of Starbucks wages or working conditions. I will say, I just wonder what type of bargaining power their union would really have.

[kayla.meyer_144]

One enters a fightwith a will to win, not a certainty of losing.
 
[link=https://medcitynews.com/2022/11/kaiser-nurses-avert-strike-and-get-22-5-raise-with-new-contract/]https://medcitynews.com/2022/11/kaiser-nurses-avert-strike-and-get-22-5-raise-with-new-contract/[/link]

About 22,000 nurses and nurse practitioners reached a tentative agreement with Kaiser Permanente,, averting what would have been the biggest private sector nurses strike in American history. These workers have been in negotiations since June, but they will soon vote to ratify a new four-year contract, which includes provisions for a 22.5% raise, increased nurse staffing and more.[size=”0″]

[/size][/h2] [size=”0″]In the meantime, others are leaving healthcare.[/size]
 
[size=”0″][link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2022/11/20/hospital-capacity-rsv-flu-covid/]https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2022/11/20/hospital-capacity-rsv-flu-covid/[/link][/size]
[size=”0″]

[/size]
Hospitals across the United States are overwhelmed. The combination of a swarm of respiratory illnesses (RSV, coronavirus, flu), staffing shortages and nursing home closures has sparked the state of distress visited upon the already overburdened health-care system. And experts believe the problem will deteriorate further in coming months.
 

This is not just an issue. This is a crisis, said Anne Klibanski, president and CEO of Mass General Brigham in Boston. We are caring for patients in the hallways of our emergency departments. There is a huge capacity crisis, and its becoming more and more impossible to take care of patients correctly and provide the best care that we all need to be providing.
 

Along with a shortage of beds, Klibanski said her hospital system is extremely short-staffed. The [link=https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35410024/]fast-paced and anxiety-inducing environment of an emergency room[/link] is a deterrent for many health-care workers.
 

[b]Many people dont want to work in hospitals, Klibanski said. There are other [less stressful] settings where they can work.[/b]

[size=”0″]

[/size]
 
[size=”0″]
[/size]

[stlmchenry_510]

Wow. Thats a big raise for the nurses. Yeah, the understaffing of ER and primary care docs is a big problem.

[19462008]

Quote from Frumious

Underscores my argument, what is management being paid for? “Asked” them to do their jobs? The employees should have been disciplined leading to termination if necessary.

Bogus arguments.

Thank you Frumi. I think once in the last 6 or 7 years… we’ve finally kinda agree.  

[Unknown Member]

[i][u]OF COURSE[/u][/i] a union member can get fired for not complying with ad hoc alterations in job description in a healthcare environment. 
 
 
 

[kayla.meyer_144]

ditto

[btomba_77]

[url=http://www.gallup.com/poll/184622/americans-support-labor-unions-continues-recover.aspx]Americans’ Support for Labor Unions Continues to Recover[/url]

Gallup poll:

[img]http://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/jgbu9eg_le-j-ubrsgojla.png[/img]

Still nowhere near the level of support that unions saw in past decades, but I think that this poll will give pause to “Union breaking” politicians like Scott Walker etc.    

The anti-union sentiment peaked along with the recession (imho a bit of “why do they have it so easy while I’m getting killed out here?!?” attitude).  Now with public approval increasing and the Obama administration putting out some labor friendly rulings out of the NLRB that make unionizing easier, we might finally start seeing an uptick in organized labor.   I know this thread is titled to specifically address public employee unions, but I would venture to say that private sector union membership may well have bottomed.

[kaldridgewv2211]

In my mind the private sector people that need the unions the most are retail employees, food workers, types that are perpetually at minimum wage. I know the auto Union is going to probably be going at the auto makers for higher wages and benefits. Getting rid of the two tier pay system. What the don’t need is to get rail roaded by unions again to the point where they can’t meet benefits obligations. UAW probably not needed, just look at Honda, or VW who seem to do fine without the UAW. Public unions are bilking the system.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Quote from DICOM_Dan

In my mind the private sector people that need the unions the most are retail employees, food workers, types that are perpetually at minimum wage. I know the auto Union is going to probably be going at the auto makers for higher wages and benefits. Getting rid of the two tier pay system. What the don’t need is to get rail roaded by unions again to the point where they can’t meet benefits obligations. UAW probably not needed, just look at Honda, or VW who seem to do fine without the UAW. Public unions are bilking the system.

Not a completely accurate comparison between Honda & UAW. Honda has a much newer work force while the UAW has very many retirees. That alone skews your comparison. Your example needs to extend the Honda workers 4 decades into the future and more to see what your comparison looks like.
 
AND, VW is a poor example period. VW wants a union to represent workers and wants union participation involved with Management. As for VW in Germany, they have both working members & retired members & somehow VW is not facing bankruptcy due to its unions. How do you Dan, explain that? 
 
As far as “bilking” is concerned, that is a complaint without information. How so? Unions are the cause of States’ financial troubles? Or you are saying what exactly? Does “public unions” include police & firemen? 
 
The 2nd part of “bilking” is that managers are on the other side of negotiations. They are also bilking the system if they don’t manage, arguably more than the unio’s “bilking.”
 
I don’t accept the knee-jerk complaint of the Right about unions, public or teacher or healthcare or otherwise. We have seen the results of decades of weakening unions. I’d be willing to accept some bilking if the Middle Class were back to the financial health they enjoyed when union participation was at its peak.

[btomba_77]

Poll numbers plummeting, Scott Walker goes back to what made his name … [url=http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/09/14/scott-walker-details-plan-to-curb-the-power-of-labor-unions/]promises an all out assault on Labor[/url]

At an appearance scheduled for Las Vegas in the afternoon, Mr. Walker plans to call for making it illegal for federal employees to join unions, extend right-to-work policies across the nation and eliminate the federal agency that investigates unfair labor practices {the NLRB}.

Mr. Walkers proposals for what he would do as president amount to the most sweeping curtailment of organized labor since President Franklin D. Roosevelt signed the National Labor Relations Act during the Great Depression, according to labor historians.

Hes trying to turn the clock back to the 1920s before we had real growth of the labor movement, said Gary Chaison, a professor of labor relations at Clark University in Massachusetts. He not only goes after the unions role in collective bargaining, but after the unions as institutions.

[eyoab2011_711]

Freedom means you can work for free…vote Walker

[kayla.meyer_144]

Old song by Tennesee Ernie Ford explains Walker’s worker Paradise. Maybe less physical but same idea.
 

You load sixteen tons, what do you get
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don’t you call me ’cause I can’t go
I owe my soul to the company store

[btomba_77]

[url=http://finance.yahoo.com/news/uaw-wins-historic-victory-u-south-vote-vw-024734442–finance.html]
UAW wins historic victory in U.S. South with vote at VW plant[/url][/h1]  
 

 The United Auto Workers union won its first organizing vote at a foreign-owned auto assembly plant in the U.S. South on Friday, in a groundbreaking victory after decades of failed attempts.
 
About 71 percent of skilled trades workers who cast ballots at Volkswagen AG’s factory in Chattanooga, Tennessee voted to join the UAW, according to the company and the union.
 
If the UAW victory, as expected, survives an appeal by Volkswagen to the National Labor Relations Board, the 164 skilled trades workers will be the first foreign-owned auto assembly plant workers to gain collective bargaining rights in the southern United States.

[suyanebenevides_151]

Like DICOM and I have said before, the issue isn’t “unions” per se, it is public unions, which are insolvent due to buying off (Democrat) politicians who don’t reasonably negotiate for the taxpayer. Rather, they negotiate with taxpayer money for the union endorsement on votes. This is undeniable.

[btomba_77]

[url=http://host.madison.com/ct/news/local/writers/steven_elbow/menard-s-contract-threatens-managers-with-pay-cut-if-union/article_d5a2b07c-4314-56a4-9246-ee6b7065e736.html]Menard’s threatens to cut manager pay by 60% if any union forms on their watch[/url]
 
 

Here’s the actual wording of the provision:
 
 The Managers income shall be automatically reduced by sixty percent (60%) of what it would have been if a union of any type is recognized within your particular operation during the term of this Agreement. If a union wins an election during this time, your income will automatically be reduced by sixty percent (60%). 
 
 
Carin Clauss, emeritus professor of law at the UW-Madison and former U.S. Solicitor of Labor, told Lueders that the company could face a valid legal challenge were a complaint filed with the National Labor Relations Board because it’s illegal to interfere with, restrain, or coerce employees who are exercising their union rights. 

[kaldridgewv2211]

In the case of VW I’ll be curious to see how that shakes out. There’s part of me that thinks VW ain’t long for this world if they don’t get their stuff together. The unionizing probably won’t help. i like to read jalopnik car blog. Seems like dealers have lots of TDI cars they can’t sell, they sold out of a lot of stock of gas cars with manufacturing incentives. So they don’t have a lot of cars on hand to sell. Plus it reads like VW won’t discount 2016 models which are basically slightly face lifted. Companies that go high volume like Toyota Camry or Honda Accord could probably make the death blow to VW sales.

[ruszja]

110 out of 1600 voted for union representation. A true landslide.

[btomba_77]

[url=http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/30/us/politics/friedrichs-v-california-teachers-association-union-fees-supreme-court-ruling.html]Scalia’s death leads to a big (and unexpected) Union win at the Supreme Court[/url]
 

A case that seemed poised to deal a major blow to public unions ended in a 4-4 tie on Tuesday at the [link=http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/s/supreme_court/index.html?inline=nyt-org]Supreme Court[/link], effectively delivering a big victory to the unions.
 
When the [link=http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/12/us/politics/at-supreme-court-public-unions-face-possible-major-setback.html]case was argued[/link] in January, the courts conservative majority seemed ready to say that forcing public workers to support unions they had declined to join violates the First Amendment.
 
But the [link=http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/14/us/antonin-scalia-death.html]death of Justice Antonin Scalia[/link] in February changed the balance of power in the case, which was brought by California public schoolteachers who chose not to join unions and objected to paying for the unions collective bargaining activities on their behalf.

[suyanebenevides_151]

I predicted this, but the case may be brought back.
 
By the way, the last sentence is totally false. The teachers didn’t want to pay for “non-chargeable” union dues which are political activities that have NOTHING to do with collective bargaining.
 
That’s a big time mistake, dergon. You need to correct it.

[btomba_77]

I don’t feel that it is a misrepresentation.
 
But take it up with the New York Times if you feel it is so egregious.  It is a direct quote.

[suyanebenevides_151]

It is completely incorrect.
 
The idea that you should be forced to give in-discriminant dues to a union for things other than representation (read: political activity having something or nothing to do with your job) is precisely why the case went so far. It literally is just common sense. I don’t know why anyone in their right mind would be against it.
 
I have no problem with workers collectively bargaining when the other side (taxpayer) actually has an honest player and representative. They don’t, which is why all these big cities are in a mess and why public unions can’t last.
 
I’m all for unions in a honest (private) system, you know, the ones where you can’t just print or borrow money after having paid off politicians for special favors.

[btomba_77]

Quote from DICOM_Dan

In the case of VW I’ll be curious to see how that shakes out. There’s part of me that thinks VW ain’t long for this world if they don’t get their stuff together. The unionizing probably won’t help. i like to read jalopnik car blog. Seems like dealers have lots of TDI cars they can’t sell, they sold out of a lot of stock of gas cars with manufacturing incentives. So they don’t have a lot of cars on hand to sell. Plus it reads like VW won’t discount 2016 models which are basically slightly face lifted. Companies that go high volume like Toyota Camry or Honda Accord could probably make the death blow to VW sales.

 
VW not of the woods yet.
 
 
[url=https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/sep/09/volkswagen-engineer-pleads-guilty-conspiracy-emissions-scandal-]VW engineed pleads guilty to fraud, will cooperate with widening criminal investigation as state Attorneys General refuse settlement and initiate their own lawsuits[/url]
 
 

VW [link=https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jul/26/volkswagen-emissions-scandal]agreed to pay $15.3bn[/link] to its customers and regulators in July. The settlement did not preclude criminal charges. 
 
 
Liang pleaded guilty to charges of conspiracy to commit wire fraud against US regulators and customers and to violating the Clean Air Act. He faces a maximum penalty of five years in prison. By cooperating with the government, he could potentially reduce his prison sentence.  

[kaldridgewv2211]

At least in the auto-industry that next fight will probably be north of the border.  I think they voted to strike on the big three in August.  I believe they’re not necessarily building the hot cars on the market now either, so they might not have too much leverage.  Crossovers and Trucks are the big selllers.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Strike authorization before upcoming talks is regular procedure, means nothing in itself.

[kaldridgewv2211]

it does when you build Dodge Chargers.

[btomba_77]

[img]https://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/cwzqeibbie2nv39hplbgoq.png[/img]

[b]Unions Recover their Public Support[/b]

[link=https://news.gallup.com/poll/318980/approval-labor-unions-remains-high.aspx]https://news.gallup.com/p…ions-remains-high.aspx[/link]

As Labor Day approaches and economic conditions in the U.S. remain tenuous, Americans’ 65% approval of labor unions is once again the highest it has been since 2003. Public support for labor unions has been generally rising [link=https://news.gallup.com/poll/122744/labor-unions-sharp-slide-public-support.aspx]since hitting its lowest point of 48% in 2009[/link], during the Great Recession.
…
Americans’ support for unions is politically polarized, as it has been since 2001, when Gallup began tracking the measure annually. Democrats’ current 83% approval of labor unions is the highest on record since then. At the same time, 45% of Republicans and 64% of independents approve of unions.
 
In 2009, 66% of Democrats, 29% of Republicans and 44% of independents viewed labor unions favorably. Since the Great Recession, union approval has recovered among all three major party groups.
 

[kayla.meyer_144]

The strength of unions’ abilities to improve middle class standard of living and representation with corporate is a major reason corporations desired to and did move their businesses to China out of USA. As we have seen, costs were reduced while profits soared at the expense of American workers as corporate profits were funneled up to the C-Suite and managers and Wall Street. 
 
A mantra of corporate and business media as well as TRump himself maintained that American workers were overpaid and had to greatly reduce their hourly pay and benefits in order to compete. Well, here we are in Paradise.
 
All of that was great for me as an investor but bad for my neighbors who subsequently had to shop at Walmart to make ends meet because of their lower pay in their new jobs and government assistance.

[btomba_77]

[link=https://www.vox.com/21569510/supreme-court-unions-cedar-point-nursery-hassid-takings-california-fifth-amendment]The Supreme Court will hear a new attack on unions. The implications are profound.[/link]

The Supreme Court announced on Friday that it would hear [link=https://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/cedar-point-nursery-v-hassid/][i]Cedar Point Nursery v. Hassid[/i][/link], a case targeting a 45-year-old California regulation that allows union organizers to briefly enter agricultural workplaces to speak to farmworkers. But the case has implications that stretch well beyond labor organizing. Among other things, [i]Cedar Point[/i] could potentially allow businesses to deny entry to health inspectors and other government officials who ensure that those businesses are being operated safely.
 
The Fifth Amendment provides that private property shall not [link=https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/fifth_amendment]be taken for public use, without just compensation[/link]. The [i]Cedar Point[/i] plaintiffs argue that this takings clause gives them a broad right to [link=https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/20/20-107/148963/20200729134714398_FINAL%204-1550%20Cedar%20Point%20CERT%20PETITION.pdf]exclude unwanted persons from [their] property,[/link] including union organizers and that property owners are entitled to compensation if this right is violated by a state regulation.
 
If the Supreme Court were to hold that the government may not require a business to allow unwanted people on its premises, the implications could be staggering. It could mean, for example, that the government runs afoul of the takings clause if it requires restaurants to submit to periodic health inspections, or if it requires power plants to be inspected to monitor their emissions, or if factories are required to allow workplace safety inspectors to observe working conditions.

[/QUOTE]
 

[kayla.meyer_144]

Brave New World of unaccountability.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Google workers form the Alphabet Workers Union. Not exactly an earth-shaking formation as it has only 227 workers out of Google’s 260,000 workers and contractors. But their hope is that this is a beachhead.

[kayla.meyer_144]

[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/04/opinion/google-union.html]https://www.nytimes.com/2…nion/google-union.html[/link]

[clickpenguin_460]

It’s a weird amalgam of ideas that I’m interested to see how it plays out.
 
It’s anti-Google and anti-monopoly which is populist and a bit Republican
It’s pro-union which is pro-Dem I guess
It’s discussing how everyone but white males is harmed somehow which is super liberal
 
If anything, it will be an annoyance to Google which I find funny.

[kayla.meyer_144]

How about holding corporations to ethical and moral standards in the workplace.

[btomba_77]

Biden rescinds Trump executive order on unions, restores collective bargaining for federal workers.
 
 

[btomba_77]

[link=https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/labor/538300-the-president-wants-amazon-workers-to-join-a-union]The president wants Amazon workers to join a union

[/link]

On Feb. 4, [link=https://thehill.com/people/joe-biden]President Biden[/link] [link=https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1357335570880618496]tweeted the following[/link]: Every American deserves the dignity and respect that comes with union organizing and collective bargaining. The policy of our government is to encourage union organizing, and employers should ensure their workers have a free and fair choice to join a union. Biden has pledged to be the [link=https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/01/biden-promises-to-be-the-most-pro-union-president-and-rep.html]most pro-union president[/link] in history, and his tweet is perhaps the clearest pro-union statement weve ever had from a sitting president.

…

Last Friday, Amazon lost its last-ditch effort to delay the vote, and the NLRB election will now [link=https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/05/tech/amazon-nlrb-union-election-mail/index.html]take place by mail between Feb. 8 – March 29[/link]. Shortly after Biden made his pro-union tweet, it was being interpreted as a direct message to workers in the Amazon union campaign. Indeed, the day of the tweet, Alabamas leading newspaper reported, [link=https://www.al.com/business/2021/02/alabama-amazon-unionization-reportedly-backed-by-biden-administration.html]Alabama Amazon unionization reportedly backed by Biden administration[/link].

Contrary to the message in Bidens unambiguously pro-union remarks, Amazon is already [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/02/02/amazon-union-warehouse-workers/]mounting an aggressive union-busting campaign[/link]: it has [link=https://pando.com/2021/02/05/brief-guide-morgan-lewis-amazons-anti-union-law-firm-bessemer-alabama/]hired a powerful anti-union law firm[/link]; it is [link=https://twitter.com/MorePerfectUS/status/1357797923598262280]texting anti-union messages to workers phones on a daily basis[/link]; it has an [link=https://www.vice.com/en/article/5dpkad/amazon-launches-anti-union-website-to-derail-alabama-union-drive]anti-union website[/link] that is full of tried and tested disinformation designed to mislead and confuse workers; it is holding mandatory anti-union [link=https://prospect.org/labor/warehouse-workers-wage-historic-fight-for-union-recognition-amazon/]captive audience meetings[/link] within the plant, which workers can be fired for refusing to attend; and it is subjecting workers to anti-union propaganda even when they visit the [link=https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-posted-anti-union-messages-in-alabama-bathroom-stall-report-2021-2]restrooms at the Bessemer facility[/link]. However, Alabama workers should have no doubt: he may never utter the word Bessemer, but if Joe Biden were an Amazon worker, he would join a union and so would his Labor secretary, Marty Walsh. The president wants you to join a union!

[/QUOTE]

[tdetlie_105]

Quote from dergon

[link=https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/labor/538300-the-president-wants-amazon-workers-to-join-a-union]The president wants Amazon workers to join a union

[/link]

On Feb. 4, [link=https://thehill.com/people/joe-biden]President Biden[/link] [link=https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1357335570880618496]tweeted the following[/link]: Every American deserves the dignity and respect that comes with union organizing and collective bargaining. The policy of our government is to encourage union organizing, and employers should ensure their workers have a free and fair choice to join a union. Biden has pledged to be the [link=https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/01/biden-promises-to-be-the-most-pro-union-president-and-rep.html]most pro-union president[/link] in history, and his tweet is perhaps the clearest pro-union statement weve ever had from a sitting president.

…

Last Friday, Amazon lost its last-ditch effort to delay the vote, and the NLRB election will now [link=https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/05/tech/amazon-nlrb-union-election-mail/index.html]take place by mail between Feb. 8 – March 29[/link]. Shortly after Biden made his pro-union tweet, it was being interpreted as a direct message to workers in the Amazon union campaign. Indeed, the day of the tweet, Alabamas leading newspaper reported, [link=https://www.al.com/business/2021/02/alabama-amazon-unionization-reportedly-backed-by-biden-administration.html]Alabama Amazon unionization reportedly backed by Biden administration[/link].

Contrary to the message in Bidens unambiguously pro-union remarks, Amazon is already [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/02/02/amazon-union-warehouse-workers/]mounting an aggressive union-busting campaign[/link]: it has [link=https://pando.com/2021/02/05/brief-guide-morgan-lewis-amazons-anti-union-law-firm-bessemer-alabama/]hired a powerful anti-union law firm[/link]; it is [link=https://twitter.com/MorePerfectUS/status/1357797923598262280]texting anti-union messages to workers phones on a daily basis[/link]; it has an [link=https://www.vice.com/en/article/5dpkad/amazon-launches-anti-union-website-to-derail-alabama-union-drive]anti-union website[/link] that is full of tried and tested disinformation designed to mislead and confuse workers; it is holding mandatory anti-union [link=https://prospect.org/labor/warehouse-workers-wage-historic-fight-for-union-recognition-amazon/]captive audience meetings[/link] within the plant, which workers can be fired for refusing to attend; and it is subjecting workers to anti-union propaganda even when they visit the [link=https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-posted-anti-union-messages-in-alabama-bathroom-stall-report-2021-2]restrooms at the Bessemer facility[/link]. However, Alabama workers should have no doubt: he may never utter the word Bessemer, but if Joe Biden were an Amazon worker, he would join a union and so would his Labor secretary, Marty Walsh. The president wants you to join a union!

[/QUOTE]

 
Perhaps its time physicians unionize as well?  Insurance companies, large HC systems, P/E, and CMS probably wouldn’t be thrilled but we deserve the dignity and respect as Biden mentioned

[btomba_77]

[b]Biden backs Amazon Unionizing efforts[/b]
 

[link=https://youtu.be/aZpUD9KgYc4]https://youtu.be/aZpUD9KgYc4[/link]
 
[link=http://rssfeeds.usatoday.com/~/645409710/0/usatodaycomwashington-topstories~Make-your-voice-heard-Biden-backs-Amazon-workers-union-drive-in-Alabama/]’Make your voice heard’: Biden backs Amazon workers’ union drive in Alabama[/link]

[btomba_77]

[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/08/us/politics/biden-unions-labor.html]https://www.nytimes.com/2…iden-unions-labor.html[/link]

New York Times: 
In Biden, Labor Leaders See a President Who Is Not Playing
 
 
 
[b]He has put organized labor at the heart of his plan to rebuild the economy, signaling a break with previous administrations of both parties.

[/b]

Thats something very new: No president since Harry Truman has made a statement as forcefully in favor of unions, Robert Reich, a professor of public policy at the University of California, Berkeley, and a former labor secretary under President Bill Clinton, said in an interview.
 
Biden didnt just say workers have a right to unionize he went beyond that, Reich said. He reiterated that the National Labor Relations Act puts responsibilities on employers not to interfere in an election, not to intimidate, and he went through a list of employer responsibilities. And that really struck a new note.
 
Certainly the Biden administration is facing headwinds as it pushes against longstanding trends. Labor union membership has eroded across the country since the middle of the 20th century, when one-third of the private-sector work force was unionized. Nowadays, that number is well below one in 10. And even within Bidens administration, there are officials with close ties to corporate interests who have a history of fighting to keep organized labor out of emerging industrial sectors as Big Tech revolutionizes the job market.
 
But labor leaders and workers advocates are already finding themselves startled by the groundwork Biden has laid.

[/QUOTE]
 

[btomba_77]

[link=https://www.npr.org/2021/03/09/975259434/house-democrats-pass-bill-that-would-protect-worker-organizing-efforts]https://www.npr.org/2021/…ker-organizing-efforts[/link]

[b]House Passes PRO Act[/b]

House Democrats have approved a bill that would provide protections for workers trying to organize, a measure that is the labor movement’s single biggest legislative priority in this Congress.
 
The [link=https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/842]bill[/link] passed Tuesday with a [link=https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/202170]225-206 vote[/link], with five Republicans joining Democrats in favor of it. The bill is unlikely to advance in the Senate, given a lack of Republican support for the legislation.
 
Union leaders say the Protecting the Right to Organize Act PRO Act would finally begin to level a playing field they say is unfairly tilted toward big business and management, making union organizing drives and elections unreasonably difficult.
[/QUOTE]

The National Retail Federation:  [link=https://nrf.com/blog/10-reasons-hate-worst-bill-congress] “The worst bill in congress[/link].”

__________

[link=https://www.epi.org/publication/pro-act-problem-solution-chart/]https://www.epi.org/publi…roblem-solution-chart/[/link]

EPI: [b]How the PRO Act restores workers right to unionize[/b]
 

[btomba_77]

[h1][b]Rubio Backs Amazon Unionizing Effort … as a  Punishment for Bezos[/b][/h1]  
Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL) writes in [link=https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2021/03/12/amazon-union-not-helping-working-class-economy-column/6947823002/]USA Today[/link]:
 
For decades, companies like Amazon have been allies of the left in the culture war, but when their bottom line is threatened they turn to conservatives to save them. Republicans have rightly understood the dangers posed by the unchecked influence of labor unions. Adversarial relations between labor and management are wrong. They are wrong for both workers and our nations economic competitiveness.
 
But the days of conservatives being taken for granted by the business community are over.
 
Heres my standard: When the conflict is between working Americans and a company whose leadership has decided to wage culture war against working-class values, the choice is easy I support the workers. And thats why I stand with those at Amazons Bessemer warehouse today.
 

[kaldridgewv2211]

What exactly is the Amazon culture war that liddle Marco wrote about?

[btomba_77]

Quote from DICOM_Dan

What exactly is the Amazon culture war that liddle Marco wrote about?

[link=https://newrepublic.com/article/161694/marco-rubios-lazy-bad-faith-effort-weaponize-amazon-workers]https://newrepublic.com/a…aponize-amazon-workers[/link]
 
[b]Marco Rubios Lazy, Bad-Faith Effort to Weaponize Amazon Workers[/b]
 
When everythings a culture war, then everythings a culture war.  

 
In Rubios view, unions arent desirablethey make otherwise peaceful labor relations adversarialbut Amazon deserves the trouble because it has become a tool of the liberal American establishment. The company imposed progressive values on all of ushow and when, Rubio doesnt quite make clearand now its reaping the backlash. Rubio, in short, supports the Amazon union out of a politics of spite, not because he wishes to ensure workers core material interests in a time of radical, and sometimes deadly, inequality.
 
 
…
 
Rubio and most of his fellow Republicans have no interest in genuinely supporting unions because they have no interest in improving voters material lives. As shown by ridiculous [link=https://newrepublic.com/article/161553/dr-seuss-mr-potato-head-culture-wars-never-dumber]debacles[/link] over Dr. Seuss and Mr. Potato Head (I feel dumber just writing this), Biden-era Republicans will be content to stoke useless culture wars to generate attention, air time, and donations. About this, Rubio was very clear: When the conflict is between working Americans and a company whose leadership has decided to wage culture war against working-class values, the choice is easyI support the workers, he [link=https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2021/03/12/amazon-union-not-helping-working-class-economy-column/6947823002/]said[/link]. And thats why I stand with those at Amazons Bessemer warehouse today.
 
 
…
 
However clumsy his positioning, Rubio is opening an interesting door. Even before Covid-19 wrecked the economy and exacerbated record inequality, Americas new gilded age was becoming impossible for politicians to ignore. In September, a collection of conservative luminaries, including Marco Rubio, published a [link=https://americancompass.org/essays/conservatives-should-ensure-workers-a-seat-at-the-table/]statement[/link] headlined Conservatives Should Ensure Workers a Seat at the Table. While hardly friendly to unions, which it accused of corruption and ignoring workers needs, the statement nodded to efforts like allowing workers a seat on corporate boards and collective bargaining (which, in typical conservative spin, the statement described as a way to challenge government mandates). The problems with monopolistic companies gouging workers had become too glaring for even corporatist Republicans to ignore, though the attention theyve come to pay these issues is worthless.

 

[kaldridgewv2211]

So hes basically talking out of his rear end. The new gop platform. Call everything a culture war. Its funny the amount of time Fox spent on the Seuss books. They never showed any of the images, nor mentioned the 200 or so books still being printed.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Reality does not create the required fear, uncertainty and doubt for their viewers.

[btomba_77]

[h1][b]Bidens Mammoth Task on Reinvigorating Unions[/b][/h1]  
[link=https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/14/politics/president-biden-labor-unions-economic-inequality/index.html]John Harwood[/link]: 

Biden invokes the economic plight of workers across racial lines. Union leaders say that presents an opening with Democrats now controlling Congress and the White House.

“You cannot fix inequality of wealth until you fix inequality of power,” said AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka. “Of all the presidents I’ve been around, Joe Biden understands the importance of collective bargaining in restoring the balance.”

So far, Biden has fired the Trump-appointed general counsel for the National Labor Relations Board and signed executive orders bolstering workplace safety and wages paid on federal projects. He shielded teachers unions from pressure to reopen schools before educators get vaccinated.

…

Biden backs the legislative answer favored by congressional Democrats. The Protecting the Right to Organize Act even drew five Republican votes as it passed the House last week.
But its only realistic chance of enactment lies with ending the Senate filibuster, which requires 60 votes to advance legislation. Democrats have just 50 senators.

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