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Shortest Succesful Radiology Careers
Im curious to hear from radiologists who practiced for a short time and then retired and lived happily ever after. By short I mean 10-20 years. I’ve see so many dinosaurs working in their 60s and I assume this is because of poor investing (years 2000-2010) or they have nothing better to do. Im curious to hear from those who worked only like 10 years and never looked back. Anyone out there? Or maybe all those guys are on bogleheads and these forums only have the rads who didnt save and invested poorly, and have to work 30+ years?
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58 Replies
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Every financially independent, well rounded, interesting, smart, even tempered, nice radiologist I know worked well past typical retirement age because they liked what they did so much. And no they are not rare. Most of the ones I grew up with and have worked with are this way. Many could have quit before 60 and lived a very comfortable life from a financial perspective.
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10 yrs requires great earnings and nailing a bunch of investments.
15 yrs with a high earning spouse is very doable IMO. 7 figure incomes x 15 ought to get you 5-7 mil in savings if market does its usual thing at the minimum
18-22 yrs – doable unless life screw ups like divorce in mid career. Early divorces hurt a lot less financially.
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Ive known a guy who was done at 45. I have friends at mid 40s who could absolutely call it near quits but they aspire to help out kids etc etc and in my group , we just dont work that hard.
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45? Legend.
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If you hot some big winners in the market with a lot riding in them
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Quote from Thread Enhancer
Every financially independent, well rounded, interesting, smart, even tempered, nice radiologist I know worked well past typical retirement age because they liked what they did so much. And no they are not rare. Most of the ones I grew up with and have worked with are this way. Many could have quit before 60 and lived a very comfortable life from a financial perspective.
Radiology is far preferable to sitting on the couch next to my wife all day watching crime shows.-
Noting the sarcasm, anything is preferable to doing the same thing all day every day. It pretty nice when ones vocation is as enjoyable as ones avocation. My only point was myself and those before me liked our jobs a lot. I do feel sorry for those of you that dont. Some of that is forced upon you by others but most is within your control.
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What if people liked working 30 + years. What if that IS their “happy ever after” and they are living it.
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The biggest issue with early retirement is healthcare costs. Pretty easy to get 2-3 mil net worth by 45 and live off 4%, but health care costs would take a big bite.
Maybe time for me to start supporting Medicare for all haha.
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Unless you absolutely hate radiology it makes financial sense to continue working at a reduced level even if you could technically retire.
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Ones perspective regarding retirement age is affected when ones colleagues and friends around your age start to die off from CAD or cancer. It starts when you are in your 50s.
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Quote from irfellowship
The biggest issue with early retirement is healthcare costs. Pretty easy to get 2-3 mil net worth by 45 and live off 4%, but health care costs would take a big bite.
Maybe time for me to start supporting Medicare for all haha.
Heh. Yeah. I was kind of hoping that the compromise ACA support / medicare expansion would gain traction and lower the eligibility age to 55 …. just as I turn 55 😉Quote from tigershark06
Unless you absolutely hate radiology it makes financial sense to continue working at a reduced level even if you could technically retire.
Or you just have something else you [b]really[/b] want to do.
But I plan to go the part time route… unless part time really pulls me in to the retired life … then I’ll quite all the way 🙂Quote from vonbraun
Ones perspective regarding retirement age is affected when ones colleagues and friends around your age start to die off from CAD or cancer. It starts when you are in your 50s.
Yeah. When you’re in a big group and you see a partner in the hallway who you haven’t seen for months and you’re like “How’s it going?” and they’re like “Well, I’m just getting back to work after my radiation and colectomy.”-
Is the goal to have the shortest career ? Whats the point of working stupid hard to have a big pile of money at 45 if you didnt enjoy the journey along the way
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I’m less than 5 years out of training and want to go part-time but group won’t let me. Most of my friends are not docs and they get by fine on high 5, low 6 figure salaries. If we ever get a Medicare-for-all, I’ll probably peace out of medicine and do something else involving my hobbies. Medicine is not that flexible and having to maintain boards and licenses is annoying on top of having to attend staff meetings etc. That reminds me I still haven’t done that required CME one of my licenses emails me every week (human trafficking course as if I have anything to do with that). 1 week on 3 weeks off schedule would be something I’d like now but oh well first world problems.
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Yet another thread that equates a successful career with getting out of your profession as soon as possible, I.e. whereby success is defined purely in financial terms.
I feel like if you picked medicine, worked hard in undergrad with grades and research and MCAT, got into med school and relocated for that and then worked hard learning the science and then clinical rotations and boards and research, and then got into radiology residency and relocated for that, getting pimped and reading a crap ton and took boards and did research and then did the same for fellowship and then finally finished your training in your early thirties…
… having a short career and then exiting radiology as soon as possible is the polar opposite of a successful career. Shoulda picked a profession you liked better and found greater meaning in and wanted to do for longer.
We are physicians, not playboys, and there is a glory in what we do that goes way beyond money. The moment you retire youre no longer a physician, just another guy who has lots of money.
I was at the supermarket at the peak of the first COVID surge and the cashier was a young kid who noticed my scrubs and asked me if I was a doctor and whether it was getting bad with lots of people hospitalized for COVID. I said yes its getting bad and that Im a radiologist so we play a role in the diagnosis but not like the frontline docs and nurses exposed every day. He said how much he admired what we do and that he was grateful for our having chosen this profession and serving society, and then he pulled out his own credit card and paid for my groceries himself, like $60 bucks worth. This is kid in his early twenties, showing up to his grocery store job during the pandemic, is thanking me and paying for my groceries out of gratitude? I tried to refuse but he was so sincere and insisted, so I accepted. I was almost moved to tears by the time I got back to my car.
Just my 2 cents.
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Quote from Flounce
Yet another thread that equates a successful career with getting out of your profession as soon as possible, I.e. whereby success is defined purely in financial terms.
I feel like if you picked medicine, worked hard in undergrad with grades and research and MCAT, got into med school and relocated for that and then worked hard learning the science and then clinical rotations and boards and research, and then got into radiology residency and relocated for that, getting pimped and reading a crap ton and took boards and did research and then did the same for fellowship and then finally finished your training in your early thirties…
… having a short career and then exiting radiology as soon as possible is the polar opposite of a successful career. Shoulda picked a profession you liked better and found greater meaning in and wanted to do for longer.
We are physicians, not playboys, and there is a glory in what we do that goes way beyond money. The moment you retire youre no longer a physician, just another guy who has lots of money.
I was at the supermarket at the peak of the first COVID surge and the cashier was a young kid who noticed my scrubs and asked me if I was a doctor and whether it was getting bad with lots of people hospitalized for COVID. I said yes its getting bad and that Im a radiologist so we play a role in the diagnosis but not like the frontline docs and nurses exposed every day. He said how much he admired what we do and that he was grateful for our having chosen this profession and serving society, and then he pulled out his own credit card and paid for my groceries himself, like $60 bucks worth. This is kid in his early twenties, showing up to his grocery store job during the pandemic, is thanking me and paying for my groceries out of gratitude? I tried to refuse but he was so sincere and insisted, so I accepted. I was almost moved to tears by the time I got back to my car.
Just my 2 cents.
That’s the glue that holds society together.
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[Deleted by Admin]
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That story is far from the norm. Lets face it, most of what we hear and deal with on the day to day is negative.
Radiology is a good job and pays well. But, especially for the newer generation, it is just that – a job. You may like your job and get a lot of satisfaction from it, but most people fantasize about leaving their job behind for other things, at least at some point.
The issue is, what would most leave their job behind for? Slowing down rather than stopping is probably the happy medium for most. You still get the satisfaction of working, and less work probably keeps it more rewarding.
As an aside – In our country, we tend to overemphasize working hard – to the point that it is detrimental to our wellbeing. We even brag about how much we work and how little we sleep.
You can call it selfish if you want, but many doctors of the newer generation (across specialties) are looking out for their own well being. How to set yourself up financially and enjoy time with family has become more important. Doing these things and taking good care of patients are not mutually exclusive. But gone are the days when doctors were happy to work all hours of the night for days on end while they grind themselves into nothing. Funny, the change in culture correlates with the loss of power by doctors and increased pressure from administrators over the last couple decades.
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Bc many doctors have to look out for the well being now vs in the past when you were youre own boss and werent just a replaceable cog in the gear.
We tend to look at the past with rose tinted glasses . I really dont think rads 20 years ago were grinding through the night reading 100 studies . No they were probably on call or sleeping , woke up to read one ct or a few X-ray and went back to bed.
Its important to look at why these changes in mentality have occurred and its not just because young rads or young doctors dont care its because the actual working changes and conditions of employment have changed
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I agree. Net worth, financial independence, and retirement are surrogates for the autonomy that we have lost as physicians.
If we ever gain back control over our professional lives we won’t need or want to obsess over retirement or FI. -
Short successful career, in my opinion, is an oxymoron.
Short successful job, yes.
Long, decorated successful career, yes. -
Quote from Drrad123
I agree. Net worth, financial independence, and retirement are surrogates for the autonomy that we have lost as physicians.
If we ever gain back control over our professional lives we won’t need or want to obsess over retirement or FI.
This is such an important point.
As a particularly salient example, do you remember back in March and April where multiple doctors were fired for wearing N95 masks (even ones they purchased themselves!) while in the hospital? Hospital CEOs and managers said it might make the patients uncomfortable.
I didnt work my ass off from high school through residency to have some dumb MF make arbitrary life or death decisions for me and my family.
The financially independent doc could tell them to go fsck themselves.
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I would say 40 would be the earliest possible age to slow down, sell call, and stop doing the unpleasant and risky parts of radiology. 50 would be the earliest age to fully retire. However, the only people who can achieve that structure their life retain as many options as possible, through such means as enforcing a modest lifestyle within their family unit. However, that is extremely difficult, and personally, I don’t like working with such radiologists because they tend not to work very hard. I would rather work with those who are a slave to their obligations and insecurities — they tend to overproduce and are wonderful partners!
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I agree with the sentiment here. We need FU money. Not necessarily to quit but to gain autonomy and full control of our lives.
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Looking out for your well-being, including going part-time and living a rich and meaningful life outside of radiology, is not mutually exclusive with enjoying the grand sense of mission in what we do as physicians, and to create such a dichotomy is a straw man. When we discard the part of medicine that makes it “more than just a job,” we are not liberating ourselves from some burden, we are throwing away one of the greatest benefits of being a physician for nothing. Commitment, and interdependence, bring meaning and purpose. It does not mean you want to work for peanuts or work for corporate medicine, rather, the opposite. It affirms that what we do is more than something corporate, and that what we earn at the end of a hard day, nay, at the end of a career, is more dollars and cents.
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Completely agree with all that you wrote. But I also think you agree with the OP more than you thinkthats why you took a part time job.
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Quote from irfellowship
Quote from Drrad123
I agree. Net worth, financial independence, and retirement are surrogates for the autonomy that we have lost as physicians.
If we ever gain back control over our professional lives we won’t need or want to obsess over retirement or FI.
This is such an important point.
As a particularly salient example, do you remember back in March and April where multiple doctors were fired for wearing N95 masks (even ones they purchased themselves!) while in the hospital? Hospital CEOs and managers said it might make the patients uncomfortable.
I didnt work my ass off from high school through residency to have some dumb MF make arbitrary life or death decisions for me and my family.
The financially independent doc could tell them to go fsck themselves.
They key is not fu money but individual physician practice ownership. I don’t want to leave my practice but I don’t want to be arbitrarily told what to do by hospital admins because “they own the place.” The hospital should be a utility that physicians and patients use. -much like the water and power companies.
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Is there any actual proof of a doc fined for wearing an n95?
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If a person puts such a high emphasis on autonomy and independence, why would they select a hospital-based field like Radiology to begin with? It was obvious to me when I picked Radiology to apply to that I would be mostly dependent on a hospital contract, just like other hospital based fields. In fact, I felt there was a good possibility that someday the hospital would try to employ me directly, although that has yet to happen.
While fewer clinicians are going out and hanging their own shingles these days, I still know many who have done so and are doing fine and have tons of autonomy and independence. I even know one OB-Gyn that was part of a health system employed group and then left, hung her own shingle, and many of her patients followed her. Thats the power of having your own patients and being a good doctor for them. We Rads have gone the other way, becoming more commoditized and replaceable as just a faceless name on a radiology report.
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Quote from IR27
Is there any actual proof of a doc fined for wearing an n95?
Yes.
[link=https://www.npr.org/2020/04/02/825200206/doctors-say-hospitals-are-stopping-them-from-wearing-masks]https://www.npr.org/2020/…hem-from-wearing-masks[/link]
And many other stories of docs being suspended threatened with termination.
And those are just the stories that are public. Think of the thousands or tens of thousands of doctors that were cowed into submission and never made a peep, even though they wanted to. But they have mortgages, loans to pay off, and kids to feed, and couldnt risk getting a black mark that might imperil their ability to get credentialed in the future.
What non-FI docs dont realize is that if youre in a position where your employer can casually and arbitrarily threaten your home, your family, or even your life, youre a serf. A serf with a shiny car and nice clothes, perhaps, but still a serf.
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Quote from irfellowship
Quote from IR27
Is there any actual proof of a doc fined for wearing an n95?
Yes.
[link=https://www.npr.org/2020/04/02/825200206/doctors-say-hospitals-are-stopping-them-from-wearing-masks]https://www.npr.org/2020/…hem-from-wearing-masks[/link]
And many other stories of docs being suspended threatened with termination.
And those are just the stories that are public. Think of the thousands or tens of thousands of doctors that were cowed into submission and never made a peep, even though they wanted to. But they have mortgages, loans to pay off, and kids to feed, and couldnt risk getting a black mark that might imperil their ability to get credentialed in the future.
What non-FI docs dont realize is that if youre in a position where your employer can casually and arbitrarily threaten your home, your family, or even your life, youre a serf. A serf with a shiny car and nice clothes, perhaps, but still a serf.
All radiologists live under a Damocles sword, all radiologists live enveloped in whale lines. All are born with halters round their necks.
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Quote from Waduh Dong
If a person puts such a high emphasis on autonomy and independence, why would they select a hospital-based field like Radiology to begin with? It was obvious to me when I picked Radiology to apply to that I would be mostly dependent on a hospital contract, just like other hospital based fields. In fact, I felt there was a good possibility that someday the hospital would try to employ me directly, although that has yet to happen.
While fewer clinicians are going out and hanging their own shingles these days, I still know many who have done so and are doing fine and have tons of autonomy and independence. I even know one OB-Gyn that was part of a health system employed group and then left, hung her own shingle, and many of her patients followed her. Thats the power of having your own patients and being a good doctor for them. We Rads have gone the other way, becoming more commoditized and replaceable as just a faceless name on a radiology report.
It may have been obvious to you but it wasn’t to me and it is not obvious to many med students.
I never discussed employment arrangements in med school back in the 90s. -
Its too many hours of non stop going full steam (or more on weekends). Its not a sustainable career where you can be healthy physically and mentally anymore for the long term.
Part time is probably the best option for many of us, but not every group/employer will allow it. Say you go .6 or .8 FTE, who will cover that void? Most places are running very lean these days.
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To each their own. For me, a rich life is a time affluent one – having the most amount of time to do whatever I want. A radiologist working 30 years full time to me is a failure because he has lost so much time he could have spent doing other things – but thats just my definition. The purpose of money for me is not to buy fancy cars, mansions, or other items – my main purpose for money is to buy myself time to do whatever I want, and for me this does not take that much money , while for others it might take a lot because their hobby is fancy cars.
I have plenty of other hobbies, none that I could do 8 hours a day – That’s called a job. I like variety, and I like having free time to spend with friends and family. I love playing video games, football, soccer, basketball, biking – none of those I could do every day for even 4 hours a day because it would get boring (1 or 2 hours every now and then is great). For me, greatest happiness comes from doing whatever the hell i want 24/7 – and any job, whether it be in radiology or a job playing video games takes away from that. There’s a lot of people in these forums who seem lost without radiology and feel like they need it and cant walk away from it – great for you, keep doing you and I’ll do me. There is no one path for all, each has their own based on who they are.
You may think i sound lazy or snobbish, but im actually a hard worker. Time is my number one priority and I seek to make the most of my time on Earth. Doing radiology has been fun, but is only a small part of who I am or wish to be. Most physicians work on average 30 years, so I know im in the minority in only caring to work 10-20 years. I also these forums is largely made up of people who are still doing radiology, I suppose its the wrong place to ask for stories on those who quickly walked away from radiology – Those people probably are too busy enjoying their lives in other pursuits to even bother visiting these forums.
It seems like every time a discussion comes up on retiring early, people seem to equate that with people hating their jobs. This is not true for me. I enjoy my job, it’s just I love so many other things more besides my job. Im actually surprised by how many people are so tied to radiology and feel lost walking away from it. Before reading these forums I thought I was in the majority, but it’s become clear to me that my attitude seems to be shared among less than 20%…or it could be selection bias as those who love radiology so much also spend time outside of radiology reading about it and posting about on these forums…Those who have a full life outside of radiology, dont bother wasting any time on radiology outside of their regular jobs so they don’t post on here.
Few other points – I don’t need radiology to feel a sense of purpose in life. I have plenty of purpose as a husband and a father, I enjoy doing those (Others ignore these and use radiology as their sense of purpose). I enjoy volunteering and teaching, working with youth, and I love variety. The other argument people make is you spent all this time training and would like to walk away after just 10-20 years…YES. 4 years undergrad – Had a blast! 4 years med school – Actually partied the hardest in med school! 5 years radiology training – Again had a lot of fun outside of radiology!. Current work – No call or weekends, still having fun but I value my time a lot more now, rather have fun as much as possible 24/7 – that is my goal, but by the people posting on here it seems like thats a very small minority. OR people are lying to themselves when they say they much rather be working than be retired, in reality they HAVE TO WORK.
“I don’t know how i would spend my time if i retired” – You wasted your life then, you never learned how to truely live.
“I would have to spend more time with my spouse/family and I rather work” – You failed in your marriage and in your family life, which could have been contributed by doing too much radiology. Instead of fixing the issue, you have ignored it by turning to radiology. Again, a failed life to me.
“Cant afford to go part time after just 20 years” – On a radiologist salary, to me you failed. Either you didnt invest properly or you got divorced, or maybe you really can afford to – you just dont understand financial planning well enough or dont have the same confidence with finances as you do with reading xrays.
No offense to anyone. Thats my take on it, and im sticking to it. I’m not the word of GOD, I am simply my own word. 1 radiologist’s opinions out of thousands out there who disagree. -
Quote from striker79
To each their own. For me, a rich life is a time affluent one – having the most amount of time to do whatever I want. A radiologist working 30 years full time to me is a failure because he has lost so much time he could have spent doing other things – but thats just my definition. The purpose of money for me is not to buy fancy cars, mansions, or other items – my main purpose for money is to buy myself time to do whatever I want, and for me this does not take that much money , while for others it might take a lot because their hobby is fancy cars.
I have plenty of other hobbies, none that I could do 8 hours a day – That’s called a job. I like variety, and I like having free time to spend with friends and family. I love playing video games, football, soccer, basketball, biking – none of those I could do every day for even 4 hours a day because it would get boring (1 or 2 hours every now and then is great). For me, greatest happiness comes from doing whatever the hell i want 24/7 – and any job, whether it be in radiology or a job playing video games takes away from that. There’s a lot of people in these forums who seem lost without radiology and feel like they need it and cant walk away from it – great for you, keep doing you and I’ll do me. There is no one path for all, each has their own based on who they are.
You may think i sound lazy or snobbish, but im actually a hard worker. Time is my number one priority and I seek to make the most of my time on Earth. Doing radiology has been fun, but is only a small part of who I am or wish to be. Most physicians work on average 30 years, so I know im in the minority in only caring to work 10-20 years. I also these forums is largely made up of people who are still doing radiology, I suppose its the wrong place to ask for stories on those who quickly walked away from radiology – Those people probably are too busy enjoying their lives in other pursuits to even bother visiting these forums.
It seems like every time a discussion comes up on retiring early, people seem to equate that with people hating their jobs. This is not true for me. I enjoy my job, it’s just I love so many other things more besides my job. Im actually surprised by how many people are so tied to radiology and feel lost walking away from it. Before reading these forums I thought I was in the majority, but it’s become clear to me that my attitude seems to be shared among less than 20%…or it could be selection bias as those who love radiology so much also spend time outside of radiology reading about it and posting about on these forums…Those who have a full life outside of radiology, dont bother wasting any time on radiology outside of their regular jobs so they don’t post on here.
Few other points – I don’t need radiology to feel a sense of purpose in life. I have plenty of purpose as a husband and a father, I enjoy doing those (Others ignore these and use radiology as their sense of purpose). I enjoy volunteering and teaching, working with youth, and I love variety. The other argument people make is you spent all this time training and would like to walk away after just 10-20 years…YES. 4 years undergrad – Had a blast! 4 years med school – Actually partied the hardest in med school! 5 years radiology training – Again had a lot of fun outside of radiology!. Current work – No call or weekends, still having fun but I value my time a lot more now, rather have fun as much as possible 24/7 – that is my goal, but by the people posting on here it seems like thats a very small minority. OR people are lying to themselves when they say they much rather be working than be retired, in reality they HAVE TO WORK.
“I don’t know how i would spend my time if i retired” – You wasted your life then, you never learned how to truely live.
“I would have to spend more time with my spouse/family and I rather work” – You failed in your marriage and in your family life, which could have been contributed by doing too much radiology. Instead of fixing the issue, you have ignored it by turning to radiology. Again, a failed life to me.
“Cant afford to go part time after just 20 years” – On a radiologist salary, to me you failed. Either you didnt invest properly or you got divorced, or maybe you really can afford to – you just dont understand financial planning well enough or dont have the same confidence with finances as you do with reading xrays.
No offense to anyone. Thats my take on it, and im sticking to it. I’m not the word of GOD, I am simply my own word. 1 radiologist’s opinions out of thousands out there who disagree.
I for one appreciate your post and glad that there are others who share this viewpoint (and they shouldn’t be shunned for doing so). I think the work culture has become insane, to the point that people are becoming unaware of how they’re actually living their lives. A relative of mine was recently diagnosed with a terminal illness after working as a doctor well beyond average retirement age, and now he’s depressed and regrets it tremendously. I’d like to believe that we weren’t put here on this green earth to work our lives away. -
This is an interesting thread. I think a part-time position of some sort is a sweet spot for modern Rads. One can still be productive, earn decent money, enjoy radiology again (it really is very interesting work) and have plenty of time off for other things and balance. Granted , these positions can be difficult to find but I think they may be the key to happiness for a modern Rad.
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If I’m not mistaken stryker had mentioned working for the VA which is known to be less draconian as far as RVU demands. Which is great for his/her philosophy.
I suspect many rads actually share this philosophy about work (especially those of us in pp – my old colleague used to describe daily workload as drinking water from a fire hydrant). The MAIN problem is finding that part time job with the flexibility you desire, while get justly compensated for your work.
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^^ va low rvu goals but you still have to be there similar hours as other jobs. Theres only 5 weeks vacation and fed holidays. Now if VA came with 10 weeks off then its a go. Or perhaps part time va would be the sweet spot if you can find a spot or afford it.
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I work in the NHS in the UK and am now 61. Full time general/uroradiology/interventional work. I still do on call.
I can retire tomorrow, can retire and return to work part time(for complex pension reasons this is the best way of going part time).
Perhaps my daily work is not as stressful as it is in the US but I doubt it.
I am the oldest full time Consultant in the Hospital so most of my peers have retired. Many have returned on a part time basis. I look at them and do not want that gig. They have entered into the shadows. They are forgotten by the clinical teams, never get asked for opinions by clinicians or their radiology peers. They cannot be found. My ego won’t let me do that.
I still really like most of what I do. Some stuff is frustrating, particularly being told what to do by others whom I have little regard for. Most stuff is ok though. Radiology is still a good job despite all it’s problems.
That is my rant for the moment. Stay safe. I am getting the vaccine next week.
May we all be well this time next year -
Striker, you seem to have figured it all out for yourself. Why do you even care about others paths? And yes, the am sample size is skewed. I wouldnt bother posting even if I was confused about my own path.
Fwiw, mid40s,could retire today. Started later with kids and had no debt, so the savings snowballed fast for me. I work about 160 days a year. Would never go back to the PP grind full time. -
I mostly agree with you Striker79.
I think life is way too short to just dedicate your life to dictating cases all day. You don’t need to work 30 years to find fulfillment in the field. We sometimes make ourselves (radiologist) too important. There is a vast world of things outside radiology.
For me, radiology is very interesting but after awhile, it is the same things over and over again. I am sure to a certain degree this is true of other areas of medicine. After 10 years, is there really anything that makes it that much more fun? We are just a cog in the wheel. We are helpless to do or change anything. We are the b($*hes of medicine – yes, can I have another? Don’t get me wrong, I would probably choose this field again if I had to go back – no regrets going into radiology.
The biggest issue I think is that most places will not let you ‘not take call’ or work the crappy shifts. If you said to your group, “I’d like to work 9 am to 4 pm with one hour lunch, no weekend calls”. They’d kick you out. If after putting in a decade or 15 years into your group, it would be nice if the group would allow you to work less (for less pay). But these seem really hard.
There is more to life than work work work.
Quote from striker79
To each their own. For me, a rich life is a time affluent one – having the most amount of time to do whatever I want. A radiologist working 30 years full time to me is a failure because he has lost so much time he could have spent doing other things – but thats just my definition. The purpose of money for me is not to buy fancy cars, mansions, or other items – my main purpose for money is to buy myself time to do whatever I want, and for me this does not take that much money , while for others it might take a lot because their hobby is fancy cars.
I have plenty of other hobbies, none that I could do 8 hours a day – That’s called a job. I like variety, and I like having free time to spend with friends and family. I love playing video games, football, soccer, basketball, biking – none of those I could do every day for even 4 hours a day because it would get boring (1 or 2 hours every now and then is great). For me, greatest happiness comes from doing whatever the hell i want 24/7 – and any job, whether it be in radiology or a job playing video games takes away from that. There’s a lot of people in these forums who seem lost without radiology and feel like they need it and cant walk away from it – great for you, keep doing you and I’ll do me. There is no one path for all, each has their own based on who they are.
You may think i sound lazy or snobbish, but im actually a hard worker. Time is my number one priority and I seek to make the most of my time on Earth. Doing radiology has been fun, but is only a small part of who I am or wish to be. Most physicians work on average 30 years, so I know im in the minority in only caring to work 10-20 years. I also these forums is largely made up of people who are still doing radiology, I suppose its the wrong place to ask for stories on those who quickly walked away from radiology – Those people probably are too busy enjoying their lives in other pursuits to even bother visiting these forums.
It seems like every time a discussion comes up on retiring early, people seem to equate that with people hating their jobs. This is not true for me. I enjoy my job, it’s just I love so many other things more besides my job. Im actually surprised by how many people are so tied to radiology and feel lost walking away from it. Before reading these forums I thought I was in the majority, but it’s become clear to me that my attitude seems to be shared among less than 20%…or it could be selection bias as those who love radiology so much also spend time outside of radiology reading about it and posting about on these forums…Those who have a full life outside of radiology, dont bother wasting any time on radiology outside of their regular jobs so they don’t post on here.
Few other points – I don’t need radiology to feel a sense of purpose in life. I have plenty of purpose as a husband and a father, I enjoy doing those (Others ignore these and use radiology as their sense of purpose). I enjoy volunteering and teaching, working with youth, and I love variety. The other argument people make is you spent all this time training and would like to walk away after just 10-20 years…YES. 4 years undergrad – Had a blast! 4 years med school – Actually partied the hardest in med school! 5 years radiology training – Again had a lot of fun outside of radiology!. Current work – No call or weekends, still having fun but I value my time a lot more now, rather have fun as much as possible 24/7 – that is my goal, but by the people posting on here it seems like thats a very small minority. OR people are lying to themselves when they say they much rather be working than be retired, in reality they HAVE TO WORK.
“I don’t know how i would spend my time if i retired” – You wasted your life then, you never learned how to truely live.
“I would have to spend more time with my spouse/family and I rather work” – You failed in your marriage and in your family life, which could have been contributed by doing too much radiology. Instead of fixing the issue, you have ignored it by turning to radiology. Again, a failed life to me.
“Cant afford to go part time after just 20 years” – On a radiologist salary, to me you failed. Either you didnt invest properly or you got divorced, or maybe you really can afford to – you just dont understand financial planning well enough or dont have the same confidence with finances as you do with reading xrays.
No offense to anyone. Thats my take on it, and im sticking to it. I’m not the word of GOD, I am simply my own word. 1 radiologist’s opinions out of thousands out there who disagree.
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Lots of rads are really good at what they do because they do it everday.
I think if they relected on what life is really about every day, they would be very good at life too…Some go years without even thinking about this.
Be deliberate in your lives, don’t let life simply happen to you. Make plans and periodically re evaluate your plans. -
Quote from striker79
To each their own. For me, a rich life is a time affluent one – having the most amount of time to do whatever I want. A radiologist working 30 years full time to me is a failure because he has lost so much time he could have spent doing other things – but thats just my definition. The purpose of money for me is not to buy fancy cars, mansions, or other items – my main purpose for money is to buy myself time to do whatever I want, and for me this does not take that much money , while for others it might take a lot because their hobby is fancy cars.
I have plenty of other hobbies, none that I could do 8 hours a day – That’s called a job. I like variety, and I like having free time to spend with friends and family. I love playing video games, football, soccer, basketball, biking – none of those I could do every day for even 4 hours a day because it would get boring (1 or 2 hours every now and then is great). For me, greatest happiness comes from doing whatever the hell i want 24/7 – and any job, whether it be in radiology or a job playing video games takes away from that. There’s a lot of people in these forums who seem lost without radiology and feel like they need it and cant walk away from it – great for you, keep doing you and I’ll do me. There is no one path for all, each has their own based on who they are.
You may think i sound lazy or snobbish, but im actually a hard worker. Time is my number one priority and I seek to make the most of my time on Earth. Doing radiology has been fun, but is only a small part of who I am or wish to be. Most physicians work on average 30 years, so I know im in the minority in only caring to work 10-20 years. I also these forums is largely made up of people who are still doing radiology, I suppose its the wrong place to ask for stories on those who quickly walked away from radiology – Those people probably are too busy enjoying their lives in other pursuits to even bother visiting these forums.
It seems like every time a discussion comes up on retiring early, people seem to equate that with people hating their jobs. This is not true for me. I enjoy my job, it’s just I love so many other things more besides my job. Im actually surprised by how many people are so tied to radiology and feel lost walking away from it. Before reading these forums I thought I was in the majority, but it’s become clear to me that my attitude seems to be shared among less than 20%…or it could be selection bias as those who love radiology so much also spend time outside of radiology reading about it and posting about on these forums…Those who have a full life outside of radiology, dont bother wasting any time on radiology outside of their regular jobs so they don’t post on here.
Few other points – I don’t need radiology to feel a sense of purpose in life. I have plenty of purpose as a husband and a father, I enjoy doing those (Others ignore these and use radiology as their sense of purpose). I enjoy volunteering and teaching, working with youth, and I love variety. The other argument people make is you spent all this time training and would like to walk away after just 10-20 years…YES. 4 years undergrad – Had a blast! 4 years med school – Actually partied the hardest in med school! 5 years radiology training – Again had a lot of fun outside of radiology!. Current work – No call or weekends, still having fun but I value my time a lot more now, rather have fun as much as possible 24/7 – that is my goal, but by the people posting on here it seems like thats a very small minority. OR people are lying to themselves when they say they much rather be working than be retired, in reality they HAVE TO WORK.
“I don’t know how i would spend my time if i retired” – You wasted your life then, you never learned how to truely live.
“I would have to spend more time with my spouse/family and I rather work” – You failed in your marriage and in your family life, which could have been contributed by doing too much radiology. Instead of fixing the issue, you have ignored it by turning to radiology. Again, a failed life to me.
“Cant afford to go part time after just 20 years” – On a radiologist salary, to me you failed. Either you didnt invest properly or you got divorced, or maybe you really can afford to – you just dont understand financial planning well enough or dont have the same confidence with finances as you do with reading xrays.
No offense to anyone. Thats my take on it, and im sticking to it. I’m not the word of GOD, I am simply my own word. 1 radiologist’s opinions out of thousands out there who disagree.
Amazing post, couldn’t agree more. Thank you for the wise words.
With my training finally coming to an end next year I hope that this outlook will lead me to a more fulfilling life, finding balance between work/family/other fulfilling activities and hobbies. In the end our most limited resource is time and I’m happy I realize that now in my early 30s as opposed to realizing later in life.
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The best revenge I’ll have on the board, by far, will be when BTC is 6 and then 7 digits in value.
And that after I already made the greatest prediction ever seen on the board. “A prophet… -
Certainly could go to 7 digits, could also go to 0 as well. It’s pure speculation. Another cryptocurrency could take over and replace it. It’s certainly gambling, better than playing the lotto though.
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Quote from striker79
Certainly could go to 7 digits, could also go to 0 as well. It’s pure speculation. Another cryptocurrency could take over and replace it. It’s certainly gambling, better than playing the lotto though.
False. I can’t get into why (though I would PM you since I like you) mostly because it’s a waste of time for boomer types that don’t want to believe, forget being close minded. -
Quote from drad123
I agree. Net worth, financial independence, and retirement are surrogates for the autonomy that we have lost as physicians.
If we ever gain back control over our professional lives we won’t need or want to obsess over retirement or FI.
Such an important point.
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Quote from ztune
I’m less than 5 years out of training and want to go part-time but group won’t let me. Most of my friends are not docs and they get by fine on high 5, low 6 figure salaries. If we ever get a Medicare-for-all, I’ll probably peace out of medicine and do something else involving my hobbies. Medicine is not that flexible and having to maintain boards and licenses is annoying on top of having to attend staff meetings etc. That reminds me I still haven’t done that required CME one of my licenses emails me every week (human trafficking course as if I have anything to do with that). 1 week on 3 weeks off schedule would be something I’d like now but oh well first world problems.
I always have human trafficking in the back of my mind while reading ER films. You never know when the information will come in handy.
I also post a sign in the hospital dungeon where I read.
The sign must be at least 11 x 15 inches in size, use clearly legible font that is at least 32-point in type size, and must state in both English and Spanish: If you or someone you know is being forced to engage in an activity and cannot leave, whether it is prostitution, housework, farm work, factory work, retail work, restaurant work, or any other activity, call the National Human Trafficking Resource Center at 888-373-7888 or text INFO or HELP to 233-733 to access help and services. Victims of slavery and human trafficking are protected under United States and Florida law. You can download a pdf of a sign which meets these requirements at [link=http://www.flhealthsource.gov/humantrafficking/#signs]http://www.flhealthsource.gov/humantrafficking/#signs[/link]
P.S. The Florida law does not apply the wage slavery that the majority of Americans are in.-
[ul][*]If you have information regarding suspected Human Trafficking of a child in Florida contact: Florida Abuse Hotline 1-800-96-ABUSE (1-800-962-2873). [/ul] I wonder if they answer. The Florida board never does.
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They’ll change their tune when you submit your resignation.
Quote from ztune
I’m less than 5 years out of training and want to go part-time but group won’t let me. Most of my friends are not docs and they get by fine on high 5, low 6 figure salaries. If we ever get a Medicare-for-all, I’ll probably peace out of medicine and do something else involving my hobbies. Medicine is not that flexible and having to maintain boards and licenses is annoying on top of having to attend staff meetings etc. That reminds me I still haven’t done that required CME one of my licenses emails me every week (human trafficking course as if I have anything to do with that). 1 week on 3 weeks off schedule would be something I’d like now but oh well first world problems.
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Quote from knightrider
They’ll change their tune when you submit your resignation.
Quote from ztune
I’m less than 5 years out of training and want to go part-time but group won’t let me. Most of my friends are not docs and they get by fine on high 5, low 6 figure salaries. If we ever get a Medicare-for-all, I’ll probably peace out of medicine and do something else involving my hobbies. Medicine is not that flexible and having to maintain boards and licenses is annoying on top of having to attend staff meetings etc. That reminds me I still haven’t done that required CME one of my licenses emails me every week (human trafficking course as if I have anything to do with that). 1 week on 3 weeks off schedule would be something I’d like now but oh well first world problems.
Bingo.
Radiology is the greatest job in the world, in my view, [b]once [/b]you get boarded and get a relaxed job with your expert status. It can be awful if you are forced into any given gig for many different, suboptimal reasons.-
^^ Few relaxed jobs
Its a miserable grind especially on weekends. Its a volume business, non stop conveyor, non stop sweat shop.
Most keep going because of money and because they are trapped and have no other choice.
On top of that, the corporates have taken over and few radiologists get to bill for their services.
Better get back to work, I see the alarm bells going off at my station as Ive fallen behind by 2.38 Rvus from goal. Here comes the taser…
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Quote from Drrad123
^^ Few relaxed jobs
Its a miserable grind especially on weekends. Its a volume business, non stop conveyor, non stop sweat shop.
Most keep going because of money and because they are trapped and have no other choice.
On top of that, the corporates have taken over and few radiologists get to bill for their services.
Better get back to work, I see the alarm bells going off at my station as Ive fallen behind by 2.38 Rvus from goal. Here comes the taser…
lol.Agree that especially working during weekends and evenings sucks. It drains your energy and ruins the quality of your life.
No vacation amount can replace having all weekends off. A friend of mine is a dermatologist who works 4 days a week 8-6, has all Fridays off but also takes only 2-3 weeks of vacation a year. His job is way better than radiology jobs that have 12-14 weeks of vacation but are 5 days of work including late evening and early morning shifts, frequent weekend calls like Q2-Q4 and some holidays to work.
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Off hours (weekends and evenings) are prime time for many of us. On top of that, those hours are very likely to be understaffed and high volume. The more of those hours you work the more miserable you will be. Its only getting worse as ER has replaced imaging with clinical skills and nothing holds back ER docs from ordering studies.
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Quote from Drrad123
^^ Few relaxed jobs
Its a miserable grind especially on weekends. Its a volume business, non stop conveyor, non stop sweat shop.
Most keep going because of money and because they are trapped and have no other choice.
On top of that, the corporates have taken over and few radiologists get to bill for their services.
Better get back to work, I see the alarm bells going off at my station as Ive fallen behind by 2.38 Rvus from goal. Here comes the taser…
I’m afraid you are right, it is only the VA type jobs that afford what I’m referring to. Sad.-
Tbere is lots of flexibility in radiology with different job types. Most however are a grind to maximize $/hr. Rads want the yearly salary of the private practice rad grinding non stop everyday but want to work at the relaxed pace of a VA rad. You can’t have it both ways. VA rad will complain about the paycheck, private practice rad complains about the grind. The ones really getting screwed are the corporate rads and telerads cranking volume on nights and weekends, and getting reimbursed at $20’s/rvu.
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Quote from IR27
Is the goal to have the shortest career ? Whats the point of working stupid hard to have a big pile of money at 45 if you didnt enjoy the journey along the way
Yea, if ones goal is to retire ASAP why endure 4 years of med school and 5-6 years of residency/fellowship? I guess to each their own. My plan is to eventually cut back significantly near retirement age (have a way to go) unless radiology/medicine has gone to complete cr*p by then.-
Quote from jd4540
Quote from IR27
Is the goal to have the shortest career ? Whats the point of working stupid hard to have a big pile of money at 45 if you didnt enjoy the journey along the way
Yea, if ones goal is to retire ASAP why endure 4 years of med school and 5-6 years of residency/fellowship? I guess to each their own. My plan is to eventually cut back significantly near retirement age (have a way to go) unless radiology/medicine has gone to complete cr*p by then.
Depends how you look at it. I don’t look back at med school and training as a means to an end. I had a lot of unique experiences and made close friends and consider it part of my career when people ask how many years I’ve been in medicine. I didn’t start the clock just when I started making attending salary…
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