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  • Salary Advice

    Posted by asevvala_18 on December 21, 2020 at 5:12 pm

    I have poor negotiating skills therefore have always known to work hard and not work smart. I have been working as a hospital employed radiologist for the last 15 years (same place where I did my residency). Good pay but over the years, the cases have nearly doubled daily (minus Covid related drop) but the pay hasn’t increased to the same level .
     
    I felt that I could be getting paid more for my skills, so recently I took on a part time teleradiology job and read just under 1000 RVU’s per month with the full time job. It took time to get used to the volume and number of extra shifts but managing well now. The pay is only $18 per RVU. 
     
    I do enjoy my work but what advice would some of the senior level radiologists (maybe in PP or more lucrative jobs) would advice in this situation. 

    emily.perry_477 replied 3 years, 6 months ago 20 Members · 34 Replies
  • 34 Replies
  • ruszja

    Member
    December 21, 2020 at 6:01 pm

    My advice ? Look for a better job.

    There is a zero chance that you can get a better deal out of your current employer and you are way underpaid in this Tele Gig. Regroup your life, move to a place that had the right combo of $$ and lifestyle.

    • Unknown Member

      Deleted User
      December 21, 2020 at 6:24 pm

      Radiologists are not that smart in my book.  $18/RVU is what a lot of them are getting because they are clueless.  Glad you finally figured out that everyone is making bank off you.  

  • g.giancaspro_108

    Member
    December 21, 2020 at 7:16 pm

    Quote from merad

     Good pay but over the years, the cases have nearly doubled daily (minus Covid related drop) but the pay hasn’t increased to the same level .

    I took on a part time teleradiology job
    The pay is only $18 per RVU. 

    I do enjoy my work but what advice would some of the senior level radiologists (maybe in PP or more lucrative jobs) would advice in this situation. 

     
    the pay per unit of work at your main job has, in real terms, decreased.
     
    the pay in your telerad gig job is disgustingly, shamefully low.  
     
    Since you asked, my advice is to ask your telerad gig to double your pay and immediately quit when they do not, then begin looking for a better, likely private practice, job as you negotiate for better pay at your longstanding job.  Anticipate that your main job will not give you adequate terms so find a better job.  ASAP.  Good luck.

    • asevvala_18

      Member
      December 21, 2020 at 8:35 pm

      Thank  you all. 

      • Ali.zavareh

        Member
        December 21, 2020 at 8:50 pm

        18/wRVU is criminal. Run dont walk away from that

      • erasmopa

        Member
        December 21, 2020 at 8:53 pm

        If you stick with your current jobs, at the very least tell the telerad job that since you get all of your benefits from the other job they should be paying you more per hour. Tell them youre done and theyll offer you more.

        I agree with the other posters you should ditch the telerad but the above advice is in case you dont.

        • benoit.elens

          Member
          December 21, 2020 at 9:23 pm

          In before a corporate shill defends $18 / RVU.

          • 22002469

            Member
            December 21, 2020 at 9:26 pm

            $3 pre-tax to read a 3 view Xray series. 
             
            Might be better off driving for Uber or Lyft as your part time job. 

          • Unknown Member

            Deleted User
            December 21, 2020 at 9:29 pm

            Moving to another job might not be that easy.  Often groups provide you with malpractice insurance and when you move, they will demand that you pay the tail – which might be thousands and thousands of $$$. 
            That’s how the Company Store holds you by the cojones, and keeps you hostage.
            Just a thought to consider.

            • ruszja

              Member
              December 21, 2020 at 9:42 pm

              Quote from Wilhelm Roentgen-the original

              Moving to another job might not be that easy.  Often groups provide you with malpractice insurance and when you move, they will demand that you pay the tail – which might be thousands and thousands of $$$. 
              That’s how the Company Store holds you by the cojones, and keeps you hostage.
              Just a thought to consider.

               
              He mentioned ‘hospital employee’. There is often no tail issue. The hospital is either self-insured or just holds a master policy that covers all professional liability for the employed physicians. One of the few advantages of being a worker-bee for a hospital or integrated health system.

  • william.wang_997

    Member
    December 21, 2020 at 10:04 pm

    Sorry to point out, but that is a really bad job. Check out pronto !

    • zoranaciricmd_377

      Member
      December 21, 2020 at 10:36 pm

      Is paying for tail really a dealbreaker when deciding to leave a job? My understanding is it depends on years worked and state. I havent heard anything over 40k for tail and I heard future employer can pick up prior acts if you dont pay it yourself.

      • ruszja

        Member
        December 22, 2020 at 11:24 am

        Quote from mykerma

        Is paying for tail really a dealbreaker when deciding to leave a job? My understanding is it depends on years worked and state. I havent heard anything over 40k for tail and I heard future employer can pick up prior acts if you dont pay it yourself.

         
        Depends on where you are. Some locales, medmal rates are crazy and as a result, many physicians dont buy one and just use other asset protection strategies to cover their accumulated liability risk.

        • zoranaciricmd_377

          Member
          December 22, 2020 at 11:43 am

          I see. Thank you fw

          • Unknown Member

            Deleted User
            December 22, 2020 at 12:57 pm

            except that the next hospital that you will want to work at or the next group will want you to get a policy, not bank account, mutual funds, bonds, etc.
             

  • Unknown Member

    Deleted User
    December 22, 2020 at 7:49 am

    Quote from merad

    I have poor negotiating skills therefore have always known to work hard and not work smart. I have been working as a hospital employed radiologist for the last 15 years (same place where I did my residency). Good pay but over the years, the cases have nearly doubled daily (minus Covid related drop) but the pay hasn’t increased to the same level .

    I felt that I could be getting paid more for my skills, so recently I took on a part time teleradiology job and read just under 1000 RVU’s per month with the full time job. It took time to get used to the volume and number of extra shifts but managing well now. The pay is only $18 per RVU. 

    I do enjoy my work but what advice would some of the senior level radiologists (maybe in PP or more lucrative jobs) would advice in this situation. 

    You are working a full time job and reading 1000 rvu per month tele after hours? This seems extreme.
    How many rvus are you doing in your job?
    What is the pay at your perm job and are there rvu requirements?
     
    “I felt that I could be getting paid more for my skills, so recently I took on a part time teleradiology job and read just under 1000 RVU’s per month with the full time job. It took time to get used to the volume and number of extra shifts but managing well now. The pay is only $18 per RVU.”
     
    Why would you take a job for 18 per rvu to “get paid more for your skills?” This makes no sense. 
    Translation- you are greedy, or ambitious, and want more money.

    • daberechimoses59_164

      Member
      December 22, 2020 at 9:14 am

      $18 /Rvu is the absolute lowest I have heard of a radiologist being paid. That is atrocious and flat out disgusting

      • erasmopa

        Member
        December 22, 2020 at 9:44 am

        I think if OP is reading 1000 rvu per month for 2nd job, (s)he has set up a sweat shop in his basement and has his/her kids reading cases in place of online school. $18/rvu is low for an md but not bad for a middle schooler.

        • asevvala_18

          Member
          December 22, 2020 at 10:41 am

          Yes ambitious but not greedy. Tele is new to me so had no idea about the pay until I started visiting these forums.

          • DFelt

            Member
            December 22, 2020 at 10:51 am

            1000 rvu/month is pretty much one FTE 7 on 7 off tele job

  • smijothomas

    Member
    December 22, 2020 at 3:31 pm

    you don’t need negotiating skills. just don’t apply to jobs that pay less than average pay. and if you have 6m of expenses saved, resign today, go on acr jobs site and apply to jobs that you will be happy working and pay thats good.

    • Unknown Member

      Deleted User
      December 23, 2020 at 7:55 am

      Quote from raddddoccc

      you don’t need negotiating skills. just don’t apply to jobs that pay less than average pay. and if you have 6m of expenses saved, resign today, go on acr jobs site and apply to jobs that you will be happy working and pay thats good.

      You make it sound so easy!

      • smijothomas

        Member
        December 23, 2020 at 10:15 am

        it is that easy. 1k jobs on acr jobs page. probably another 2k not listed you can find by calling local radiology departments / texting old training friends.

        • Unknown Member

          Deleted User
          December 23, 2020 at 10:44 am

          Quote from raddddoccc

          it is that easy. 1k jobs on acr jobs page. probably another 2k not listed you can find by calling local radiology departments / texting old training friends.

          2k rad jobs can be found by calling “local” rad departments? I’ll let you think about that one for a while. 
           
          It is super tough to find a good job in radiology. I have been in the business for almost 25 years.

          • 13373

            Member
            December 24, 2020 at 8:24 am

            Negotiating is a learnable skill.  Many books out there that can help you with this.
            At the same time, don’t you have a medical director or leader of the group that can help and advocate for the rads? Echo others sentiment about dropping telerad.
            I have been happily directly employed by the hospital for 9 years…  

            • FlorenceP

              Member
              December 26, 2020 at 8:29 pm

              $ 32-35 per RVU seems fair for day/evening tele. Night should be more. Good luck!.

              • 22002469

                Member
                December 26, 2020 at 8:45 pm

                Unfortunately $32-35 per RVU for tele is probably just as ridiculous as $18 per RVU these days. 
                 
                 

                • Ali.zavareh

                  Member
                  December 27, 2020 at 4:51 am

                  I think $35 is probably market competitive. Whether it should/shouldnt be is another question. If you were in a high volume private practice reading 15-20k RVUs/year that would translate to $525-$700k. After paying practice overhead I know plenty of people who read within that volume and make within that range. Not trying to start a new line of debate about whether rads should/shouldnt read that much. Some can, some cant.

                  • 22002469

                    Member
                    December 27, 2020 at 9:02 am

                    $35 is market competitive for daytime tele?

                    Where do I sign up?
                     
                     

    • Unknown Member

      Deleted User
      January 7, 2021 at 10:36 am

      The issue is there is little transparency about “average pay”  in our specialty. I
       
      t’s been said time and time again that published rates are about half of real PP salaries and even when others sincerely ask on this forum, we are reticent to disclose this info. For young rads fresh out of training they are proceeding blindly 
       
      Once we start helping each other out, removing the wool pulled over our eyes, our fellow radiologists will be equipped with knowledge NOT to accept low-paying jobs and $18/rvu telerads gigs. 

      • Unknown Member

        Deleted User
        January 7, 2021 at 10:39 am

        imho the average range of salaries is 350 to 700k. this is the range from corporate slave to super partner.

        • Dr_Cocciolillo

          Member
          January 7, 2021 at 10:46 am

          Agree with Sir Read a Lot.
           
          IMO, the key is not “salary”  It’s pay per wRVU and knowing the case mix.  Knowing that, and that alone, will tell you how hard you have to work at any given job.  The salary # is somewhat meaningless if the difference in salary between location A and B is 100k, but location B requires 40% more effort to get there.  
           
          In my opinion:  
           
          Need wRVU comp of 45+.   good/great jobs: $60/wrvu.  Fantastic jobs: 80+/wRVU
           
          Mind you:  you won’t find these jobs in places where there is 0% income tax rates, unless you are doing tele for a practice. 
           
          Good – great jobs:  wRVU in the 10k-12k range a year. 
           
          Ok jobs: 12-14k wRVUs
           
          Bad jobs: > 15k wRVUs
           
          Note: This will depend a bit on case mix/ modalities. For ER shifts and mamms, 15k Wrvus is very doable.  For MSK or anything with a lot of small procedures, it’s a grind.  
           
          There are the important factors, IMO, not total pay/year.  
           
          As other people have alluded, if you can somehow get a set up where you can pretax 150k into retirement accounts, makes all the other #s more flexible. 
           
          It’s not what you make, but rather what you keep sometimes.  

        • AcutelyObtuse

          Member
          January 7, 2021 at 10:46 am

          A lot of 1 on 2 off overnight jobs pay ~$300k. I would bet that a lot of corporate and academic poisitions pay in the $300-350 range as well. I think there are far more at the lower end of the scale than the high end these days.

          • emily.perry_477

            Member
            January 7, 2021 at 10:59 am

            To OP.  It is impossible for me to say your daytime job is worth it to you.  Only you know that.  Switching a fulltime job is tough, especially if you have a family.
             
            However, that part time telerad gig is robbing your living minutes from you and you can definitely do better if you still plan to do the tele part time, even if you continue to keep your daytime job.