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Ryan Trump Tax Reform Legislation
Paul Ryan says that congress will move on to tax reform post-ACA.
They have a big CBO hole now. Ryan was hoping that the ACA taxe would have been repealed as part of “healthcare reform”. Now, if he wants to get rid of the ACA taxes in this new legislation that puts him nearly $1 trillion in the hole before even doing a single other thing.
It will make tax reform tough to do without blowing up the deficit.
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Big questions: How heavily will the cuts be weighted toward the wealthy? (Mnuchin says NO cuts for the wealthy)
Will there be a border adjutment tax? (Lindsey Graham says that can’t pass the Senate)
Will they try to specifically target ACA taxes in the plan?
Will the GOP right be willing to accept a bill that blows up the deficit?
Will there be bad math to try to balance it out? (Like presumptions of 5% growth or “dynamic scoring”)
Will Trump be “hands on” and put out his own plan or, like healthcare, will he let Paul Ryan develop his own? -
189 Replies
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ill the cuts be weighted toward the wealthy? (Mnuchin says NO cuts for the wealthy)
-Depends on what Mnuchin considers wealthy
Will there be a border adjutment tax? (Lindsey Graham says that can’t pass the Senate)
-No, not enough Bannonites
Will they try to specifically target ACA taxes in the plan?
-only as it applies to sabotaging Health care
Will the GOP right be willing to accept a bill that blows up the deficit?
-Absolutely
Will there be bad math to try to balance it out? (Like presumptions of 5% growth or “dynamic scoring”)
-Of course, Ryan bought himself a whole new bag of magic asterisks
Will Trump be “hands on” and put out his own plan or, like healthcare, will he let Paul Ryan develop his own?
-Trump will do nothing except pass blame off on others
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I kind of think it’s going to be more trickle down theory. I’ve heard over and over about how high the taxes are on business. Even though that might not be true since the tax code can be used to minimize the tax rate.
This was an interesting listen on how the government basically picks winners and losers.
How Government Creates Inequality – David Cay Johnston
[link]https://youtu.be/VApBedmawnM[/link]-
Cue the “Obama decreased the [b][i]deficit”[/i][/b] canard as if anything else matters apart from the increasing 20 tril +
We all know where this is going
As I said, we just create money as we have the reserve currency, and hope it lasts
No politiican apparently will do anything to stop it. The reset is the only thing that will save any “America” and that will have to be a new American Republic, because the nation has been lost to destructive forces of progressivism and globalism-
Quote from Dr. ****er
Cue the “Obama decreased the [b][i]deficit”[/i][/b] canard as if anything else matters apart from the increasing 20 tril +
We all know where this is going
Exactly, Republicans only care about deficits ONLY when there is a Democrat as POTUS. Otherwise que Dick Chaney’s quote,
“Reagan proved, deficits don’t matter.”
The only problem is that if Republicans want to keep Democrats out of everything they have to propose something that is deficit neutral otherwise they risk Democrats invoking 60 votes minimum which means Democratic participation.
A conundrum.
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[url=http://www.politico.com/story/2017/04/white-house-tax-reform-push-236767]Trump White House to take the lead on Tax Reform[/url]
The Trump White House is already mapping out a major, historic overhaul of the tax code, just one week after the stunning collapse of its Obamacare repeal bill. Its a move that carries enormous political risks given the complexity of the code, the size of the package theyre eyeing and the administrations already frayed ties to Capitol Hill. But the White House is eager to move on and hopes a more hands-on approach will avert another legislative failure even if the details of the tax plan are far from figured out.
The key takeaway: The White House is not outsourcing these details to anyone, including the speaker of the House.
Whatever plan Mnuchin develops, it will be Trumps third tax blueprint in less than a year. Campaign advisers and transition staff each developed separate blueprints, but no one seems to be paying much attention to those right now.
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[url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/real-tax-reform-has-only-happened-once-heres-how-to-do-it-again/2017/03/31/0623e3e2-1594-11e7-833c-503e1f6394c9_story.html?utm_campaign=newsletter_axiosam&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&utm_term=.30cfa687d33e]Odds Dont Look Good for Tax Reform[/url]
If history is an indication, the road to full-scale reform will be tortuous and lengthy. The Tax Reform Act of 1986 was debated in concept long before taking two years to wend its way through Congress. It died several times before public opinion and extraordinary political leadership revived it. Few veterans of 86 believe Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchins prediction that tax reform will be completed by this fall.
Also instructive: Tax reform was launched in 1985 with a scene thats almost unimaginable today: a televised speech by Reagan, a Republican, followed by a Democratic response by Dan Rostenkowski, the chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, endorsing the presidents initiative.
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[url=https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-04-18/gop-targets-trillion-dollar-tax-breaks-for-democratic-states]Republicans to target Federal deduction of State-income tax, a $1 trillion benefit that goes mostly to Blue states; Could risk tax reform passage[/url]
Conservative activists and House Republican leaders want to eliminate a trillion-dollar tax break that mostly benefits wealthy filers in Democratic states, a push that could further imperil President Donald Trumps hopes of winning bipartisan support for a tax overhaul. Ever since the inception of the federal income tax in 1913, taxpayers have been allowed to deduct the state and local income taxes they pay from their taxable income. Anti-tax crusaders, including Grover Norquist, the president of Americans for Tax Reform, say the deduction represents bad policy.
Ditching the deduction would raise federal tax revenue by $1.3 trillion over 10 years, according to the Tax Policy Center, which found that 90 percent of that increase would be paid by taxpayers who earn $100,000 or more. The largest beneficiaries of the tax break are California, New York and New Jersey, all relatively high-tax blue states, which eat up more than a third of the nationwide benefits, according to the nonpartisan Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget.
House Speaker Paul Ryan has proposed to do just that. The blueprint for tax reform that he introduced last summer — which has drawn most notice because it proposes a controversial border-adjusted tax — would kill the deduction. Yet the intraparty politics surrounding the issue could be tricky. In the House, 28 Republicans represent New York, California and New Jersey combined, and the GOP can only afford to lose about 20 of its own members to pass a bill without Democratic support.
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Initially a lot of flyers are put out to see which way the wind is blowing
The one just mentioned is stupid and petty
The republicans may not be able to govern
If they can’t get tax reform passed while controlling all 3 branches and being the party supposedly of low taxes…… then they can’t govern
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It’s not a question of “if” then can, they just simply can’t. Them owning all 3 branches just proves the fact.
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Usually early on in the legislative process they float ideas to see where the winds are blowing
The above statement is petty and vindictive and has no chance of passing
I withhold my judgment on their ability to govern at least for now
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Well, now that healthcare is done, I guess it’s time to start talking taxes…
The latest:
[url=https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-27/bannon-s-plan-to-tax-top-earners-is-said-to-be-considered-by-gop]Bannons Plan to Tax Top Earners 44% to Be Considered by GOP[/url]White House chief strategist Steve Bannons plan to raise the top income-tax rate for Americas highest earners could find some support among congressional Republicans as part of a populist message to sell a broader tax overhaul, according to one conservative lawmaker who has heard the proposal.
Bannon supports paying for middle-class tax cuts with a new top rate of 44 percent for those who make more than $5 million a year, according to a person familiar with his thinking. The lawmaker, who asked not to be named because discussions are private, said the rate pitched was 42 percent, which would be acceptable to some conservatives, as long as its coupled with a low corporate rate and other changes like repealing the alternative minimum tax. The current top individual rate is 39.6 percent
Earlier reports of Bannons proposal to create the highest top individual income tax rate in 30 years were initially considered unrealistic since Congress is controlled by the historically anti-tax GOP. Automatic opposition isnt a given among some GOP members, said the lawmaker whod heard the proposal — especially if theyre made to understand how it could help publicly sell a plan that would include other changes in the tax code, the person said.[/QUOTE]
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You only “pay for” something if you have a BALANCED budget = everything is otherwise paid for. More lying speech utilized by the unprincipled.
If you’re in 18 trillion of debt, it’s totally arbitrary to talk about one thing being paid for and another not. Think of how stupid that is — oh wait, yes it’s another language deception by you know who.-
the wealth is so concentrated at the top those are the people that should be getting taxed at a high rate. I’m not even talking about the 1% but people like Bezos, Buffet, Gates, Musk.
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
the wealth is so concentrated at the top those are the people that should be getting taxed at a high rate. I’m not even talking about the 1% but people like Bezos, Buffet, Gates, Musk.
Expect it to get worse if the current GOP plan goes through —
[url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2017/08/07/real-tax-reform/?utm_term=.17e2a5ae8b55]Current GOP plans for tax “reform” aren’t reform at all. They are simply regressive, deficit expanding tax cuts./ Here’s what we’re likely to see proposed:[/url][B]– Tax cuts that largely accrue to wealthy households.[/B] Lowering personal rates, cutting the corporate tax rate by more than half, ending the estate tax, and getting rid of the alternative minimum tax (which enforces higher tax liabilities among those, like President Trump himself, who have high incomes but scads of deductions) would make federal taxes fall about $175,000 for the richest 1 percent of households (8 percent of their pretax income), $940,000 for the top 0.1 percent (9 percent) and $760 for the middle class (1 percent), according to the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center (TPC). Looking across various proposals, tax/budget analyst Seth Hanlon finds that between 50 percent and 100 percent of the share of these tax cuts either immediately or eventually accrue to the top 1 percent.
[B] Tax cuts that lose somewhere between $3 trillion and $5 trillion over 10 years[/B]. Look for Team Trump to try to make those losses look smaller by using dynamic scoring i.e., adding in revenue allegedly spun off by tax-induced growth effects. But both the TPC and the Congressional Budget Office show that, absent statistical abuse, such effects are minimal or go the wrong way (i.e., the dynamic score loses more than the static score). TPC finds the dynamic effects reduce the revenue loss from $3.5 trillion to $3.4 trillion in the first decade but then raise it from $5.7 trillion to $5.9 trillion in the second decade.
[B] Tax cuts that open up a big fat new tax loophole.[/B] A common element of these reform plans is a much-reduced top tax rate for pass-through businesses. … 68 percent of the tax cut on existing pass-through income would flow to millionaires, including real estate investors, hedge fund managers, investment bankers, and the like.[/QUOTE]
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no worries. The super wealthy are going to use that money and create millions of high paying jobs and everyone else can open a small business.
I just saw something on my google news page in NYC they are considering a tax on the wealthy to pay for subway repair.
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Darryl Issa becomes the first California Republican to oppose the GOP tax plan.
There’s not a ton of open resistance within the GOP yet, but Issa is a big name. And, perhaps last night’s special election results will be a wake up call for Blue/Purple state Republicans looking toward 2018.
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I suspect this get’s crushed. The analysis I’ve seen is like people making $20-$40k pay more after 2023. It’s a total schnook job.
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I see too they are making educational funding for masters and PhD candidates as taxable income…… a direct attack on the educated elite of this country
It’s a very nasty mean spirited tax plan in some ways aimed to punish democrats with no real benefit to anyone accept those eligible for estate tax
My father always told me people were stupid…… but if he never told me how stupid they were
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Plus the 1.X trillion dollars in deficit spending. Although I did see the info on that higher ed funding also. As if attacking education with Betsy wasn’t enough. (there’s a lot of bad news floating around here sphere this week)
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McConnell the Turtle, “ever watchful deficit policeman” says not to worry about $1.5T deficit, all it takes is years of additional 0.4% growth! A minuscule amount! A pittance that will be more than covered by stimulated economic growth from proven Supply-Side! (Like Kansas!) So that’s why he never worried about the “jobs-killing” and “budget-busting” ACA and it’s cost of only $1T over 10 years! Except this time the money is going to the “right people” & not the uninsured scum. Or may I say, “Deplorables?”
Yeah, both Parties are exactly equally bad. Both redistribute taxes. Democrats want to give it to those who need it & Republicans want to take it from those who need it & give it to those who already have a lot of it!
I still have a lot of learnin’ to do about how bad & evil it is helping those lazy people who don’t have.-
I have always been consistent on the debt. You always accuse me of being Republican, which of course I’m not. But that’s why you don’t understand much, identity is more important to you than ideas or principles.
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CBO score has it cutting $25b off medicare almost right away.
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[link=http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-gop-tax-plan-20171115-story.html’]http://www.latimes.com/po…n-20171115-story.html'[/link]
Senate changing plan.
Now will repeal the ACA individual mandate (to free up ~$300bn).
Also, the individual tax cuts will last only 7 years … 2018 -2025. The corporate cuts will be permanent. -
[link=http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-gop-tax-plan-20171115-story.html’]http://www.latimes.com/po…n-20171115-story.html'[/link]
Senate changing plan.
Now will repeal the ACA individual mandate (to free up ~$300bn).
Also, the individual tax cuts will last only 7 years … 2018 -2025. The corporate cuts will be permanent.-
Quote from dergon
[link=http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-gop-tax-plan-20171115-story.html’]http://www.latimes.com/po…n-20171115-story.html'[/link]
Senate changing plan.
Now will repeal the ACA individual mandate (to free up ~$300bn).
Also, the individual tax cuts will last only 7 years … 2018 -2025. The corporate cuts will be permanent.
I read the same thing about corporate vs individual. Government really looking out for the common folk.
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Permanent estate tax repeal though
Making Merica great and draining the swamp
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The common folk are the 1%.
I keep hearing about Supply Side again. This bill is a resurrection of the zombie belief in trickle down. The better description I heard was the “horse and sparrow” idea, feed the horse lots of oats so the horse gets fat, & the manure will be richer so the sparrows who feed on the manure will enjoy the “supply side.”
The plan, in other words, is to feed all us lesser beings the manure.-
To me people at the bottom/middle need to keep more of their income as they are more likely to be spending it. You want to drive corporate revenue, let people keep their money to buy stuff. You want to cut people off entitlements, well let’s get people paid. have a minimum livable wage. WE have government for special interest and rich folks. People like Warren Buffet almost act like they’re begging the government to take their money.
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Johnson, Collins, Corker, McCain probably enough to stop this bill from moving forward. I’d guess even more Senators by the time the jog is up.
If they can pass it without me, let them, – Johnson
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/democrats-furious-over-new-gop-attempt-to-gut-obamacare/2017/11/15/fdc382f8-ca23-11e7-8321-481fd63f174d_story.html?utm_term=.07fe0faa7a0f]https://www.washingtonpos…utm_term=.07fe0faa7a0f[/link]-
I would decrease the tax rate for everyone making less than 250. Keep rate the same above that or small increase. Decrease corporate tax rate. Decrease death tax rate. I agree that the middle-class will spend more to drive the economy along with the decreased corporate rate which would now be on par with the rest of industrialized Society.
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I actually agree with reducing the corporate rate.
I just think that the pay-for for that reduction should be come from the corporate owners. Since a big chunk of the increased profitability is going to go to share price and dividends, the cost of the corporate rate reduction should be born by increase in capital gains and dividend taxes.
That would also incentivize using the increased revenue for truly pro-growth uses like cap-ex and wages. -
I say decrease for under 500, since most try not to make that number due to current policy. If anyone thinks that a 44% rate is actually paid, just like in the historical US tax plans (kool aid Dems citing that garbage) they’re just silly. It’s a great idea in a sense because it seems like you are going Dem or populist and the common man (and Dem) is stupid. Anyone making millions already knows how to shield the millions with a ~20% rate
why do I even have to explain this-
QU poll has this as 2 to 1 against. Really bad numbers for tax cut.
[link=https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2501]https://poll.qu.edu/natio…-detail?ReleaseID=2501[/link]
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the GOP tax plan is dumpster fire………
“Did we take away their money? No,” says Sen. Mike Crapo (R-Idaho). “There’s not one dollar taken away from them if they make that choice [not to buy insurance].”
Democrats point out that it’s more than the insurance subsidy at stake. By 2027, all Americans earning less than $75,000 see an increase, partly because the individual tax cuts go away after 2025.
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/11/16/senate-tax-bill-cuts-taxes-of-wealthy-and-hikes-taxes-of-families-earning-under-75000-over-a-decade/?utm_term=.f274837eba78&wpisrc=al_news__alert-economy–alert-politics–alert-national&wpmk=1]https://www.washingtonpos…rt-national&wpmk=1[/link]-
Tax cut passes the house!! Woo woo!!
Whose excited for their -5000 dollar raise?
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at least my basic understanding here is that after 10 years anyone making under $75K taxes go up. Love the Sherrod vs Orin
[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/17/us/politics/tax-bill-senate-hatch-brown-fight.html]https://www.nytimes.com/2…hatch-brown-fight.html[/link] -
I am excited! My taxes lowered and the result more tax return $ Also the stock market will probably go much higher.
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Ya Think that the market is going to higher
Did you ever hear the term irrational exuberance……. or the famous aunt Minnie poster claim of Gold 3500$ being a no brainer
We are in bubble territory
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Whats the famous quote
When the janitor gives you stock investment advice its probably time to sell
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Quote from irayd8u
I am excited! My taxes lowered and the result more tax return $ Also the stock market will probably go much higher.
This. My taxes are going down. I wish we had gone to a flat tax, but I guess you can’t expect things to be fair.
As for the deficit issue, we’ll just have to leave it to the next government to make the required spending cuts. There is plenty of room in the defense and HHS budget to account for any slight decrease in revenue. When the leftists passed Obamacare, an extra trillion in spending was a pocket-change, but now that it’s tax cutting time, suddenly a trillion is a lot of money. Fools.
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500 pages, passed in a few hours without much review. Government not serving the people. Waiting to see what all is buried in this scam.
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I think those goes down hard core. They’re trying to get votes by adding the individual mandate repeal. They did such a good job of passing Trumpcare I guess the figured why not tack this onto a tax bill. The government is dysfunctional.
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Congress is full of swamp idiots, the story remains the same
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Fascism is freedom F@ger?
Sounds like something right out of 1984. Yes, you are no believer in democracy.-
Considering he has a radical Muslim like opinion of women……..does it surprise you
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[link=http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/feature/analysis-tax-cuts-and-jobs-act]Tax policy center:[/url] [b] 50% of taxpayers will be paying MORE by 2027[/b][/link][b]
On average in 2027, taxes would rise modestly for the lowest-income group, change little for middle-income groups, and decrease for higher-income groups. Compared to current law, 9 percent of taxpayers would pay more in 2019, 12 percent in 2025, and 50 percent in 2027.
[/b]-
We did it! Maga!
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And the GOP now considering automatic triggers to raise taxes in the event of a deficit, which a deficit is was predicted. These doofs are lame. Listening to NPR they expect business tax cuts will mean manufacturing jobs come back to the US because we can compete. How do we compete with pennies on the dollar labor cost?
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/2017/11/30/c2118302-d5e7-11e7-a986-d0a9770d9a3e_story.html?utm_term=.de758173ac96&wpisrc=al_news__alert-politics–alert-national&wpmk=1]https://www.washingtonpos…-alert-national&wpmk=1[/link]
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Im not really sure why we need tax cuts when the unemployment is at all time low and stock markets are at all time highs. Isnt this the time to raise taxes?
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Because tax cuts is the catechism. They know nothing else.
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Quote from AngryBirds
Im not really sure why we need tax cuts when the unemployment is at all time low and stock markets are at all time highs. Isnt this the time to raise taxes?
Yes. Now is the time to cut deficits by raising revenue so that there can be counter-cyclical spending during the next downturn.
We do not need tax cuts. We do not need stimulus.
This GOP plan is [b]not[/b] tax policy. It is politics…. it rewards their donors and keeps the gravy train rolling while punishing their enemies.
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Stan Collander at [i]Forbes[/i]: [link=https://www.forbes.com/sites/stancollender/2017/11/19/gop-tax-bill-is-the-end-of-all-economic-sanity-in-washington/#19b3079177ef]The GOP Tax Bill Is an Economic Policy Disaster[/link]
If its enacted, the GOP tax cut now working its way through Congress will be the start of a decades-long economic policy disaster unlike any other that has occurred in American history.
Theres no economic justification whatsoever for a tax cut at this time. U.S. GDP is growing, unemployment is close to 4 percent (below what is commonly considered full employment), corporate profits are at record levels and stock markets are soaring. It makes no sense to add any federal government-induced stimulus to all this private sector-caused economic activity, let alone a tax cut as big as this one.
This is actually the ideal time for Washington to be doing the opposite.
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My plan
Cut taxes across the board 3% for all income under 200,000$ and raise the top rate to 40% from 39.6%
Keep everything else as is
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Quote from kpack123
My plan
Cut taxes across the board 3% for all income under 200,000$ and raise the top rate to 40% from 39.6%
Keep everything else as is
What exactly was the impetus of the Republican desire to pass tax reform?-
Quote from jd4540
What exactly was the impetus of the Republican desire to pass tax reform?
Reward their donors.
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Look at it
All it really does is eliminate the estate tax and abolish the AMT
The corporate tax rate cut is minimal as they are eliminating most corporate deductions…. I read several arguments lately saying that even though the corporate rate is 35% today…. for most companies the effective rate is actually 22-24% with all the deductions
I did the math under both house and senate plans for myself and it will save me 1-2 grand
So basically this is a tax for the super wealthy
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Quote from jd4540
Quote from kpack123
My plan
Cut taxes across the board 3% for all income under 200,000$ and raise the top rate to 40% from 39.6%
Keep everything else as is
What exactly was the impetus of the Republican desire to pass tax reform?
This is reform?
What do you think, jd? What have they done in spite of promising utopia for the past 7 years, all the voters had to do was note them in the Presidency & both houses of Congress, they would repeal the ACA & all would be right with the world.
Am I exaggerating?
They want to pass something, anything. They don’t care so long as they pass something. They have a religious belief in Supply Side or at least say they believe it in spite of 35 years of proving otherwise. They have been saying America needs a tax cut – we have the higher taxes in the whole world to hear them tell it.
Of should they admit it was all a lie all along?
Why do you think they want to pass so-called tax reform?-
Quote from Frumious
Quote from jd4540
Quote from kpack123
My plan
Cut taxes across the board 3% for all income under 200,000$ and raise the top rate to 40% from 39.6%
Keep everything else as is
What exactly was the impetus of the Republican desire to pass tax reform?
This is reform?
What do you think, jd? What have they done in spite of promising utopia for the past 7 years, all the voters had to do was note them in the Presidency & both houses of Congress, they would repeal the ACA & all would be right with the world.
Am I exaggerating?
They want to pass something, anything. They don’t care so long as they pass something. They have a religious belief in Supply Side or at least say they believe it in spite of 35 years of proving otherwise. They have been saying America needs a tax cut – we have the higher taxes in the whole world to hear them tell it.
Of should they admit it was all a lie all along?
Why do you think they want to pass so-called tax reform?
Don’t see a major issue with our current system so not quite sure. It would however help to understand their reasoning in order to determine whether or not the proposed law/reform will actually accomplish what they say it will-
We are late-cycle, near full employment with the Fed in tightening mode.
Any stimulus for the economy at this point is likely to simply be inflationary, leading to rate rises.
This is the point in the cycle to look for more revenue so that spending will be available in the next down turn.
The GOP plan is horrible economics. It is [i]purely[/i] political, a reward for their donors and burning desire for a legislative “win” … any win.
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Quote from Frumious
This is reform?
[/h2]
[link=http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/11/the-republican-plan-is-the-opposite-of-tax-reform.html]Jonathan Chait[/link]:
[link=https://politicalwire.com/2017/11/19/tax-reform-without-reform/]Tax Reform Without the Reform[/link][/h2]
The tax break for private planes is the sort of provision that is usually held up as a case for what tax reform is needed to eliminate. In this case, it is being created by tax reform. That is one clue that the tax reform plan being drawn up in Congress is nothing of the sort.
The goal of a tax-reform plan, as the term has been historically understood, has been to minimize political interference in the tax code. The tax code might charge a rich person a higher rate than a poor person, but it doesnt want to charge a butcher who earns $50,000 more than a baker who earns $50,000 just because the baker did a better job lobbying Congress.
The most overt use of pseudo-reform to inflict punishment on blue America is a combination of punitive assaults on universities, which have grown increasingly hostile to the Republican Party over the last generation as the GOP has embraced anti-intellectualism. Both chambers would [link=https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-11-14/five-reasons-not-to-tax-university-endowments]tax[/link]university endowments an amazing policy choice, given that Republicans generally oppose taxing other forms of concentrated wealth. Why should the assets of a nonprofit educational institution be treated as income? Its hard to think of a reason other than the fact that Republicans dont like those institutions.
Even more absurd is a provision in the House tax cut to treat graduate students subsidized tuition as income. A graduate student who teaches and conducts research full-time for a university, and who currently gets free tuition, would be taxed on the full value of that tuition as if it were a cash salary. So, [link=https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/16/opinion/house-tax-bill-graduate-students.html?smid=pl-share&_r=1]for instance[/link], a graduate student who earns $30,00 in money, but gets $50,000 worth of tuition reimbursed for his work, would be taxed as if he earned $80,000.
For constituents Republicans wish to reward rather than punish, the tax bills assumptions grow outlandishly generous. They would open up a massive loophole for business owners by creating a 25 percent tax rate for pass-through businesses that is, businesses whose profits are taxed as personal income of their owners.
[b]In such a compressed period of time, they couldnt avoid opening up enormous opportunities for gaming and arbitrage even if they wanted to. And theres little reason to believe they want to, with their plan essentially having been created by and for the business lobby. The tax code is imperfect now. Once the Republicans get through with it, it will be in desperate need of reform.[/b]
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also eliminates student load interest deductions. I’ve said the Senators are the grown ups. They need to quash this. If they want to help the middle class and lower classes let us see some real reform. This thing seems very clearly like it’s for the wealthy. ie: Private airplane provision.
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Quote from jd4540
Don’t see a major issue with our current system so not quite sure. It would however help to understand their reasoning in order to determine whether or not the proposed law/reform will actually accomplish what they say it will
Didn’t you bother to read the analysis? And you haven’t a clue their reasoning? You think they are being honest?
You are being credulous.-
Quote from Frumious
Quote from jd4540
Don’t see a major issue with our current system so not quite sure. It would however help to understand their reasoning in order to determine whether or not the proposed law/reform will actually accomplish what they say it will
Didn’t you bother to read the analysis? And you haven’t a clue their reasoning? You think they are being honest?
You are being credulous.
Just have heard bits and pieces of their talking points but wasn’t clear what the underlying urgency was (aside from fulfilling a campaign promise and gaining any political win). Taxes aren’t like healthcare where most of us are aware that there are major issues
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punishing their enemies and their supporters–the GOP will face what the dems faced when they passed the ACA except what they do will be destructive for the country
Quote from dergon
Quote from AngryBirds
Im not really sure why we need tax cuts when the unemployment is at all time low and stock markets are at all time highs. Isnt this the time to raise taxes?
Yes. Now is the time to cut deficits by raising revenue so that there can be counter-cyclical spending during the next downturn.
We do not need tax cuts. We do not need stimulus.
This GOP plan is [b]not[/b] tax policy. It is politics…. it rewards their donors and keeps the gravy train rolling while punishing their enemies.
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Flake a yes
McConnell says they have the votes.
Well… A lot of people said congressional Republicans would stay with Trump just long enough to get tax cuts enacted. Today puts that theory to the test as Mueller hits high gear at the same time they send a giant tax cut to Trump’s desk.-
I’m really surprised it’s going to get through the Senate. Maybe I shouldn’t be. I wonder if they wrote into that taxes would snap back if there was a deficit. Grad students gonna get the high hard one from the GOP along with lower income folks.
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
I’m really surprised it’s going to get through the Senate. Maybe I shouldn’t be. I wonder if they wrote into that taxes would snap back if there was a deficit. Grad students gonna get the high hard one from the GOP along with lower income folks.
No snap back. Senate parliamentarian ruled that wasn’t allowed under reconciliation rules.
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Well, after some sausage-making, it has passed the Senate. With any luck we’ll have the improved tax code for FY18.
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Improved tax coarse? Were all getting 4 years of crumbs before our taxes ultimate rise
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If going deeper into national debt is a better tax code.
Next is the debt ceiling. Better raise it a lot, we are going to need to for the higher deficits.
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Quote from Frumious
If going deeper into national debt is a better tax code.
We’ll just have to reduce expenses. Easy peasy.
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Quote from fw
Quote from Frumious
If going deeper into national debt is a better tax code.
We’ll just have to reduce expenses. Easy peasy.
Easy? Are you being sarcastic or are you just delusional?
The easy part is giving away tax breaks without paying for it. The hard part is cutting Social Security and Medicare (which you can’t do with 50 votes plus Mike Pence). I can’t wait to watch the Republicans self-immolate once they wake up from this stupor and realize how big of a hole this blows in the deficit when the 2026 Congress comes into session.
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No one cares about deficits
This is basically getting rid of the estate tax and AMT and give everyone a couple hundred bucks a year
Its very likely going to cost republicans the house
States with higher income taxes and property taxes are getting punished so they will vote their representatives out
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Quote from kpack123
No one cares about deficits
This is basically getting rid of the estate tax and AMT and give everyone a couple hundred bucks a year
Its very likely going to cost republicans the house
States with higher income taxes and property taxes are getting punished so they will vote their representatives out
Can this bill still fall apart?
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Quote from jd4540
Quote from kpack123
No one cares about deficits
This is basically getting rid of the estate tax and AMT and give everyone a couple hundred bucks a year
Its very likely going to cost republicans the house
States with higher income taxes and property taxes are getting punished so they will vote their representatives out
Can this bill still fall apart?
Yes. But it is not likely to.
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Quote from fw
Quote from Frumious
If going deeper into national debt is a better tax code.
We’ll just have to reduce expenses. Easy peasy.
Medical costs? like reimbursement?
Easy peasy.
Oh, you mean like Medicare & Social Security and CHIP.
Yes, the very things Trump supporters wanted cut.
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So much for “principled” stands from the Republicans.
Deficits as far as the eye can see, no triggers, only red ink. Oh yes, Trump & company will make out like bandits but the 99% will have to pay for it.
And our children will really get the dirty end of the stick when it comes they have to pay for our greed.
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One thing seems weird
Have You ever seen the public less enthused about a tax cut as this one?
I think most people see it as a big nothing for them-
Arguably a tax increase based on what I’ve seen. People under $75k it goes up in a couple years I believe.
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Hopefully we can reduce the deficit by significantly cut entitlements to the baby boomers, the worst generation in the history of the country.
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If cutting spending was easy it would already have been done.
“Starve the beast” does nothing but increase deficits. Without broad bipartisan political will to cut into the heart of government spending the likely outcome is increased debt until there is some form of a crisis.
When will that crisis come? Who knows. But I doubt there will much action on real cuts until that time comes. -
Quote from yesterdaysnews
Hopefully we can reduce the deficit by significantly cut entitlements to the baby boomers, the worst generation in the history of the country.
Many Baby Boomers deserve to burnin Hell for greed and selfishness. But if you look, many on AM who are for Trump are too young to be Boomers.
Follow the money.-
Quote from Frumious
Many Baby Boomers deserve to burnin Hell for greed and selfishness. But if you look, many on AM who are for Trump are too young to be Boomers.
Follow the money.
Seriously? Those of us who want to keep more of the money we’ve EARNED should “burn in Hell”? Thats REALLY what you think? I have no words.
I would be very upset if not for the fact that I don’t believe in Hell. Neither do you, Frumi, as I recall…
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Free government. Enjoy all the services and freedom it provides but complain the cost is too high all the time.
Seriously I was thinking about how Kennedy’s 2nd Inaugural speech of “Ask not what your Country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.” has changed 180 degrees. Now the Republican mantra is what can the country do for me since we 1% who have gained all these riches thanks to the Country, but we deserve more.
Patriotism is about tax breaks. And driving up the national debt that our children will have to pay back for our greed. Let the Millennials and their children pay.
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Quote from Frumious
Seriously I was thinking about how Kennedy’s 2nd Inaugural speech of “Ask not what your Country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.” has changed 180 degrees. Now the Republican mantra is what can the country do for me since we 1% who have gained all these riches thanks to the Country, but we deserve more.
That’s rich. Kennedy was the one who pushed for a large tax cut in 1963 (from 91% to 65%). Only because he was killed before it got passed, it was Johnson who eventually signed it.-
And people are complaining about 39%.
Good grief
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Bloomberg Editorial Board: [link=https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-12-02/congress-achieves-the-impossible-on-tax-reform][b]Congress achieve the impossible with tax reform: [/b]Republicans have managed to make a terrible plan worse.[/link]
The first thing to note about the bill [link=https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-02/senate-passes-tax-cut-bill-in-milestone-move-toward-overhaul]the Senate passed[/link] early Saturday is that it is not, by any [link=https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-10-30/tax-reform-isn-t-about-cuts]reasonable definition[/link] of the term, tax reform. The elements of a smart reform are no secret. It would lower rates, broaden the base by closing loopholes, eliminate distorting provisions and seek to distribute the burden as fairly as possible. Done well, it could improve the countrys longer-term growth prospects by offering greater simplicity and certainty, and it neednt unduly increase the federal deficit or [link=http://www.igmchicago.org/surveys/tax-reforms]count[/link] on added growth to pay for cuts.
Last month, House Republicans passed a bill [link=https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-11-20/converging-on-tax-reform-nonsense]that violates[/link] pretty much all those principles . It would compensate for lower rates by scrapping some deductions, but would still add more than $1 trillion to the federal deficit — a number it reached only with the help of thinly veiled [link=http://www.crfb.org/blogs/new-senate-tax-bill-hides-over-500-billion-gimmicks]gimmicks[/link], such as making a key corporate-tax provision (full and immediate expensing of equipment purchases) expire after five years. As regards fairness, it would primarily [link=http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/feature/analysis-tax-cuts-and-jobs-act]benefit[/link] the rich.
To win the requisite votes in the Senate, however, Republicans had to [link=https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-02/senate-passes-tax-cut-bill-in-milestone-move-toward-overhaul]make[/link]further tweaks. In a stark recognition of their failure to limit deductions, they have reinstated the alternative minimum tax, a sort of backstop (with its own separate set of rules) designed to ensure that people and corporations can’t claim so many deductions that they avoid paying taxes altogether. They have set individual income tax cuts — among the few elements that benefit the middle class — to expire in 2026. And they would gut Obamacare by eliminating the requirement that all Americans have health-care coverage, potentially leaving millions uninsured.
Some elements of the hastily constructed legislation, part of which was [link=https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/01/us/politics/hand-scribbled-tax-bill-outcry.html]handwritten[/link]into the margins, will inevitably have unexpected consequences. Consider the timing of corporate-tax changes. The equipment-expensing provision takes effect immediately, but under the Senate bill the corporate tax rate falls to 20 percent (from 35) only in 2019. This will allow businesses to take deductions on investments while rates are high, then pay a lower rate on the resulting income, creating a [link=https://www.cbpp.org/research/federal-tax/gop-process-designed-to-obscure-tax-plans-effects]perverse incentive[/link] to pursue otherwise unprofitable projects.
[b]The end result is sheer absurdity:[/b] a reform that actually complicates the tax code further, and that must contradict itself and partially self-destruct to attain some semblance of the fiscal discipline Republicans [link=https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-01/as-congress-races-to-pass-tax-bill-deficit-hawks-grow-quiet]claim[/link] to value. Its hard to imagine a more egregious waste of time and energy, or a worse outcome for taxpayers and the broader economy.[/QUOTE]
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