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Republicans unveil ACA replacement plan
[link=http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/231812-republicans-unveil-new-obamacare-alternative-with-tax-credits-for-poor]http://thehill.com/policy…h-tax-credits-for-poor[/link]
[link=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2015/02/05/introducing-obamcare-lite-what-the-new-gop-health-reform-alternative-really-tells-us/]http://www.washingtonpost…ative-really-tells-us/[/link]
The Patient Choice, Affordability, Responsibility and Empowerment or CARE Act was crafted by Sen. Richard Burr, R-N.C., Senate Finance Committee Chairman Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, and House Energy and Commerce Chairman Fred Upton, R-Mich.
The term “Obamacare lite” is being used as a pejorative by many Republicans (see the Bobby Jindal op-ed earlier in the week). But from my view the new plan looks like just that. It will be interesting to see how much support coalesces behind the plan.
The individual mandate is gone. No lifetime caps remain.
It also looks as if there is a provision to only allow continuous renewal of insurance. But if a person drops out of coverage at some point they could then be denied.
The Medicaid expansion is repealed. Its replacement would allow [i]some [/i] of the people currently in medicaid to get a subsidy to buy insurance instead.
The subsidy levels for Medicaid are ratcheted back (400 percent of the poverty level to 300 percent). The subsidies for coverage become a fixed tax credit. Provides state opt-out for some provisions (like staying on plan until age 26).
The big problem though:
Still, the plan is short on details about how it would help the rest of the 10 million people who have purchased ObamaCare plans make the transition away from the government program.
With the cuts in subsidies and the ability to drop coverage by insurers if an individual stops paying, it’s likely that many millions (I’ll wait for statistical analysis to come out) of people will lose the coverage they currently have. And come the next major recession with job losses, many millions more will lose it again.
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687 Replies
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They want to replace Obamacare with Obamacare Lite
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Baby steps. This is the beginning of the dismemberment. Once the mandates are gone, it is no longer Obamacare.
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I think Obamacare is here to stay. People love free stuff.
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Alda gives up the game..tinker around the edges, give it a new name and voila…repeal and replace has become a charade…all the things they now say they are for could be done with amendments to the current legislation and do not require repeal…but of course they are too scared to admit that
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Why were amendments not allowed at inception?
Amendments, piecemeal defunding, suspension of mandates, delays of penalties, upcoming SCOTUS decision and before long …Voila! Obamacare is no more. Sounds like a well thought out strategy is unfolding.
The true death knell will, however will require a Republican president.
If/when Scott Walker gets elected, you can put a fork in Obamacare.
[i] [/i]-
Like the 161 Republican amendments included in the legislation?
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[link=http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/richard-burr-no-obamacare-alternative]http://talkingpointsmemo….-obamacare-alternative[/link]
[b]GOP Senator: We Won’t Have A Health Care Plan Before 2017[/b]
Republicans probably won’t rally around a health care alternative before 2017, a GOP senator said Thursday.Appearing on Fox News, Sen. Richard Burr (R-NC) suggested there will be “lots of ideas” but no health care proposal that unifies the party in the 114th Congress.Burr, along with Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT) and former Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK), proposed one of the more comprehensive GOP alternatives to Obamacare last Congress, but it failed to gain traction within the party.
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What a surprise, no plan. The GOP is not about building, it’s not about plans other than tearing down. Or declaring $$$ is an expression of the 1st Amendment and Corporations are the same as people and have the same rights.
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A side note here.
What exactly would be wrong in fixing unpopular parts or parts that are not working well?
Not saying the Republicans are trying to do that but maybe we get to that point some day once the acceptance that it is here to stay sinks in-
Quote from kpack123
A side note here.
What exactly would be wrong in fixing unpopular parts or parts that are not working well?
Not saying the Republicans are trying to do that but maybe we get to that point some day once the acceptance that it is here to stay sinks in.
First question: Which is the “not working well” part? You need specific answers to that before you can put policy recommendations in place. Cost of premiums? Cost of health care overall? Cost to government of health care? Too few people covered? Insurance companies making too much profit? Website functionality? ACA taxes too high?
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Also, a big problem is that the most “unpopular” part, the individual mandate, is also the key to holding it holding it together. The other less popular parts are the parts that pay for it.
The “popular” parts are the things that cost the most money and give people things for “free”. Dependent coverage extension, closing donut hole, elimination out-of-pocket costs for preventive care, income based subsidies, medicaid expansion, guaranteed issue all poll around or above 70% favorability all comers. (Much lower just within the GOP for many of those though).
I would think that the GOP could put up the employer mandate on the chopping block. That would probably be good policy. But it would also mean more and more people onto the private exchanges, asuring the law’s survival.
I could see some stand alone tort reform provision getting bipartisan support.
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[url]http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-02-10/republicans-endorse-morality-of-obamacare[/url]
Read this interesting little opinion on why the GOP can’t really get to an ACA alternative
Obamacare {was} rooted in a liberal moral vision — that no one in so wealthy a nation should be denied health care because they lack the means to buy it. Many Americans accept that premise. Republicans have all but ceded the argument; they just don’t like the redistributive consequences of it.
…{Rand} Paul {as the most libertarian of the candidates} conjures a world of vague “different ways” in which millions who were unable to obtain insurance in the past are somehow able to access it after Obamacare is repealed. This world exists only as a rhetorical construct of Republican politicians who are unwilling to own the moral consequences of their preferred health insurance policy — a modified (few can tell you how) status quo ante that, in the real world, would leave tens of millions uninsured.
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Five years of sustained Republican outrage over Obamacare has yielded no replacement because it would require conservatives to either publicly capitulate to the moral logic of Obamacare, or renounce it. Random policy forays aside, Republicans remain frozen between those poles, hoping the Supreme Court will settle the conflict without forcing them to make a choice between a morality they claim to embrace and the policies that suggest they don’t. -
[url=http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-08-18/scott-walker-releases-policy-plan-to-repeal-replace-obamacare]Scott Walker unveils an ACA replacement plan[/url][img]http://assets.bwbx.io/images/ioz5SB4TBhX4/v1/-1x-1.png[/img]
A centerpiece of his plan is to provide age-based refundable tax credits for people who lack employer-provided coverage. Tim Jost, a prominent health care expert, said Walker’s “tax credits at the level proposed would not begin to cover the cost of decent coverage.”
Walker’s plan includes less robust protections for people with preexisting conditions than Obamacare; rather than force insurers to accept everyone, he proposes to protect people who maintain continuous coverage while they switch between policies. He also proposes state-based high-risk pools, saying his plan “would make it easier for states to expand” them. Many states already have high-risk pools, but they haven’t worked well because, due to the fact that they cover many poor and sick people, they have high costs and are generally underfunded, experts say.
Federal dollars would help, but the Republican-led House hasn’t shown interest in spending much money on the idea.
The plan also turns over Medicaid, a joint federal-state program to provide insurance for low-income Americans, to the states, with limits on federal funding. House Republicans have proposed a similar concept in their budgets as a way to save money and encourage innovation at the state level, but progressives strongly oppose it and argue that it would “dramatically cut Medicaid coverage,” as Jost put it.It also throws in malpractice reform, selling insurance across state lines (the “race to the state with the weakest insurance regulations” plan), and expanding HSA.
Also, since the HSAs, tax credits, and funding for high-risk pools are estimated to cost around $ 1Trillion and the plan also eliminates the revenue generating parts of the ACA it is pretty much unfunded BS at this point.
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Jonathan Chait responds:
[link=http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/08/walker-rubio-obamacare-replacement-plans.html]http://nymag.com/daily/in…replacement-plans.html[/link]“{Rubio’s and Walker’s} fundamental dilemma is that Obamacare provides a popular benefit to millions of voters. Appealing to the conservative base demands they eliminate the program that provides this benefit. Appealing to the general election requires them to promise something to compensate the victims of repeal. How will they fund that something? This is the basic problem that for decades has prevented Republicans from offering a health-care plan. [b]Rubio and Walker show that they still have no answer.”[/b]
The usual pattern in politics is for politicians to turn complex problems into simple ones. But covering the uninsured is a simple problem they want to make complex. The main reason people lacked insurance before Obamacare is that they did not have enough money to afford it. Some of those uninsured people had unusually high health costs. Some of them had unusually low incomes. Boiled down, Obamacare transferred resources from people who are rich and healthy to people who are poor and sick, so the poor and sick people can afford insurance.
[b]It is tempting to treat the lack of specifics in the Republican health-care plans as a problem of details to be filled in. But it is not a side problem. It is the entire problem. They will not finance real insurance for the people who have gotten it under Obamacare, nor will they face up to the actual costs theyre willing to impose on people. The party is doctrinally opposed to every available method to make insurance available to people who cant afford it. [/b]They have spent six years promising to come up with an alternative plan, and they havent done it, because they cant. [/quote]
(( bolding mine )) -
[url=http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2016-02-11/republicans-make-the-case-for-obamacare-oops]Republicans Make the Case for Obamacare. Oops.[/url]
The Republican presidential candidates are pitching Obamacare.
Marco Rubio wants to “ensure those with pre-existing health conditions can get access to affordable coverage.” Ted Cruz wants to “delink health insurance from employment.” Jeb Bush favors letting employers “use financial incentives to encourage wellness programs.” John Kasich wants to use episode-based payments to hold down costs, and let doctors and hospitals share the savings from reduced spending.
What each of those proposals has in common is that Obamacare is already doing it. Passed in 2010, the Affordable Care Act prevents insurers from charging higher premiums based on your medical history. It built subsidized, regulated insurance markets for people who dont get coverage through their job. It increased the rewards employers can offer for joining a wellness program. And it created pilot programs in Medicare to advance accountable-care organizations and bundled payments, exactly the ideas Kasich supports.Why aren’t Republicans offering any new ideas on health care? One answer is that Obamacare stole all the good conservative ideas, from the requirement that individuals buy insurance (first advanced by a Heritage Foundation expert in 1989) to regulated exchanges for buying insurance (the heart of Republican House Speaker Paul Ryan’s longstanding idea for turning Medicare into a voucher program).
Here’s another explanation: Republicans built their arguments against Obamacare before anybody knew for sure how the law would work out. Now those arguments have been undercut by the facts: Employers haven’t cut back hours to avoid providing coverage, the growth in health spending remains below its pre-recession levels, and the law has reduced the deficit. So the anti-Obamacare candidates are stuck: They can’t abandon their party’s opposition to a law derided in such apocalyptic terms, but neither can they sustain that opposition with data.
The Republican contenders are left to repeat bromides about Obamacare’s awfulness while promising to do many of the same things the law has already accomplished. Those ideas are inherently appealing. Perhaps they’re counting on voters not to realize that Obama already delivered on these campaign promises. And just in case anybody does notice that sleight of hand, candidates sprinkle in old ideas about competition and deregulation that make even less sense for health care today than they used to.
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[link=http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/04/us/many-see-irs-fines-as-more-affordable-than-insurance.html?_r=1]http://www.nytimes.com/20…an-insurance.html?_r=1[/link]
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There is really a disconnect between what people and insurance companies and politicians Think insurance is and what Health care is
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Mr. Murphy, an engineer in Sulphur Springs, Tex., estimates that under the [link=http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/health/diseasesconditionsandhealthtopics/health_insurance_and_managed_care/health_care_reform/index.html?8qa]Affordable Care Act[/link], he will face a penalty of $1,800 for going uninsured in 2016. But in his view, paying that penalty is worth it if he can avoid buying an insurance policy that costs $2,900 or more. [i][b]All he has to do is stay healthy.[/b][/i]
That’s all. If he doesn’t stay healthy, he could lose a lot including entering bankruptcy. All to save a few bucks & being stubborn. Like car insurance, all I have to do is not get stopped.
Ben Wakana, a spokesman for the [link=http://www.hhs.gov/]Department of Health and Human Services,[/link] said people would still be better off buying insurance.
We understand some people may be thinking through their choice of coverage, but going without health insurance is a serious gamble that can be catastrophic if wrong, Mr. Wakana said.
Back to Murphy:
Mr. Murphys problem with the exchange plans is not affordability, he said. He could pay the $243 a month that the cheapest available plan would cost, and even the $6,750 annual deductible. It is more that he dislikes his options: all health maintenance organizations that do not allow customers to go out of their networks except in emergencies.
As for insurance policies sold outside the exchange, he did not explore them because, he said, I just dont see the point.
Im just going on the hope that nothing bad is going to show up until I get a full-time position somewhere or theres better choices, he said.
Some holdouts described going to great lengths to ensure that their gamble of not buying insurance paid off.
I live very, very scarily carefully, said Alexandra Mitchell, 53, a paralegal in Dallas who said she had been uninsured for six years because she found her options unaffordable. She swims daily to stay in good shape. I leave my house; I go to work; I go to the pool; I go home.
They are not making rational decisions based on affordability. These people in the article are not making rational decisions, period, there are making emotional ones at their own risk.-
The other side of Obamacare, when you are not able to get insurance at all because the Republican State believes in not giving you anything no matter the need.
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/republicans-in-idaho-tried-to-design-a-better-plan-than-obamacare–and-failed/2017/02/09/80f8354a-dd00-11e6-918c-99ede3c8cafa_story.html]https://www.washingtonpos…9ede3c8cafa_story.html[/link]Jon Hayes, a 79-year-old architect, was worried about the country descending into socialism and not trusting the free market. Idahoans, he said, believed in themselves and not institutions.
Amen, Brother Ben, the man in the leather jacket said.
Yet Hayes wondered whether folks in this part of the country could see the big picture, whether they were being selfish. When you have a city and you have urban poverty, its easy to see because its right there, he said. Here you have rural poverty, and its horrible!
He continued: Still, people are hurting, even if they work. Maybe we can slowly bring back these community colleges, by giving people more of a leg up so they have the ability to work and not depend on the government.
But where do you draw the line? Petsche interrupted. They dont have health care, so you give them health care? They dont have a house, so you give them a house? They dont have a car, so you give them a car? When I was growing up, if I couldnt afford it, I didnt have it.
[b]Then how do you fix it if theres not help? Hayes asked.[/b]
[b]Petsche sat back in his chair and shrugged: Thats outside my pay scale.[/b]
Amen, the man in the leather jacket said.
“Amen.” God will decide whether you deserve good health or not. That help is above Republican’s pay grade.-
Republican State believes in not giving you anything no matter the need.
Flip side may be that the Democratic state believes in giving you whatever you say you need by taking it from others.
Really, a line has to be drawn, as those two people you quote point out. The entire point is that a line MUST be drawn. Somewhere.
Where is it to be drawn?
Health care?
Food?
Shelter? Free homes?
Transportation? (free cars)
Education (up through secondary all taken care of – but …. college, grad school, prof school?)
Alcohol? (and – actually – some people who are dependent do have an absolute NEED for the stuff)
and so on…
and really no need to answer. These questions are unanswerable, at least from a philosophical standpoint.
However, from a practical standpoint, they get answered by whoever has the most to gain. If 55% of the population gets support from 45%, it will happen. With Obamacare, the majority are getting hurt, and the minority are reaping benefits. So, support is weak.
One other point – I think we are debating the wrong issue. Everyone is so focused on how to divide up the bill, forgetting that the bill is FAR too high. No 30 second CT scan should cost $3500. The hospitals and other corporate entities are massively inefficient, and many of them (like the one I work in) are massively profitable. This point is being entirely ignored.
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What’s the root of the problem?
1) The government either keeps subsidizing people that are low income
2) Business pay a livable wage that allow for people to afford shelter, food, healthcare. Should government have to force the issue? Maybe.
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I saw this clown Himes on Carlson’s show. Tucker clearly says, Trump is trying to advance so many things you guys have historically talked about (drugs from Canada, etc) … but the guy keeps repeating gibberish showing that he doesn’t care about policies, he just wants to keep up the us vs. them crap. He basically had an interview where he admitted the president lied about Obamacare, then went on to say he wouldn’t work with the President to try to do things the D party claims it has pursued for decades.
This is why no one can take these clowns seriously.-
Dems shouldn’t work with Trump, ever. After the way the GOP acted during Obama’s term, f*ck ’em.
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Quote from deadwing
Dems shouldn’t work with Trump, ever. After the way the GOP acted during Obama’s term, f*ck ’em.
So its tit-for-tat? Why are politicians allowed to behave as 3rd graders? Shouldn’t they be held to a higher standard?
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Pendulum politics as described by Gary Kasparov. He’s an interesting person. Lots tonon Putin.
[link=http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/12/garry_kasparov_on_why_vladimir_putin_hates_chess.html]http://www.slate.com/arti…putin_hates_chess.html[/link]
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Quote from Dr.Sardonicus
Republican State believes in not giving you anything no matter the need.
Flip side may be that the Democratic state believes in giving you whatever you say you need by taking it from others.
Really, a line has to be drawn, as those two people you quote point out. The entire point is that a line MUST be drawn. Somewhere.
Where is it to be drawn?
Health care?
Food?
Shelter? Free homes?
Transportation? (free cars)
Education (up through secondary all taken care of – but …. college, grad school, prof school?)
Alcohol? (and – actually – some people who are dependent do have an absolute NEED for the stuff)
and so on…and really no need to answer. These questions are unanswerable, at least from a philosophical standpoint.
However, from a practical standpoint, they get answered by whoever has the most to gain. If 55% of the population gets support from 45%, it will happen. With Obamacare, the majority are getting hurt, and the minority are reaping benefits. So, support is weak.One other point – I think we are debating the wrong issue. Everyone is so focused on how to divide up the bill, forgetting that the bill is FAR too high. No 30 second CT scan should cost $3500. The hospitals and other corporate entities are massively inefficient, and many of them (like the one I work in) are massively profitable. This point is being entirely ignored.
OK Sardonicus,
Let’s talk real facts here. The article is about a child with tooth decay. So “giving” him “free stuff” is a dentist appointment to take care of a rotten tooth. OK, maybe it’s his own fault for inadequate dental care. Or not. Or maybe the water he drinks doesn’t have enough fluoride in it. But he is a child and you are worried about the national budget over a child’s dental care? It’s equivalent to giving him a free car? Or free alcohol? And that is your argument why he doesn’t deserve “free” stuff like dental health care?
A little hyperbolic? & not exactly based on rational reality.
As for “free” education, yes, why not. I remember arguing with Mistrad years ago that if it were up to Republicans today public education would not exist. Bernie’s proposal for higher education? I think it is worth consideration albeit university education is not for everyone or for every job but having government subsidize education and vocational education is an excellent investment, IMO.
It is philosophy. About the philosophy of government and ROI and investing in people is a good investment that provides a good ROI. At the very least it is an argument worth having.
As for subsidies, the medical field is largely funded through government subsidies. Without those subsidies your income would likely not be as good as it is now. Yes, you’d very likely have an income above the median but probably not as much as it is now. That is a reality.
And a CT scan for $3.500? I agree, it is too high. Even more important, try to find out what the cost is before you get said CT scan. Unless you pay cash you can’t find out until you get the bill. I received a bill for a CT shoulder for $7,500 as I recall. So yes, what is the justification other than gouging the public? Of that bill there was a $2,000 discount, the insurance paid $4,500 & I was being billed for the remainder by the hospital.
Health care needs a lot of fixing before we worry about paying for dental care for a child living under the poverty level.
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I am not saying WHERE the line should be drawn, just that one has to be drawn, and asking where each would draw it. Obviously, unanswerable, and obviously different for each person. And I was also trying to point out that, while the debate is usually conducted on a philosophical level, this is NOT how it is actually decided. It is actually decided by political muscle, all dressed up in “caring” verbiage.
My answer would be different than yours.
I do not support “income redistribution”. At least as imagined by some.
It is interesting that many on this board get foaming-at-the-mouth angry about partners who “don’t carry their weight”, and want them fired. Or, as it is usually phrased, “older” radiologists, who are perceived by the younger members of the board as less valuable than recent trainees. That being the case, how does everyone feel about that on the level of the entire society? That, really, is what income redistribution is about. If you aren’t in favor of carrying a slow partner, it would be consistent to be against carrying other unproductive people in the society at large.
I also think that free college is about the worst idea I ever heard. Because, as we have seen in medicine, as soon as the govt gets involved in paying you, they want to control you. They make the rules. And I have to think there would be discussions about what was “correct” to teach students. As an example, where I sit right now, the local government (school board) has required intelligent design to be taught in the public schools.
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Of course a line has to be drawn. Arguing otherwise is a non sequitur and even with our present government “confiscation” and “redistribution” lines are drawn. But “redistribution” is code wording. Any taxes that are spent on the public is redistribution. Public education for a start. Infrastructure. The military. Dental care and health care for children. Show me how it could be otherwise unless you constantly move the goal posts of redefining what you mean.
How about the old and invalid? The disabled? Those with low mental status? In order to provide for them “redistribution” is required. Like insurance, we all pay even if we don’t suffer calamity but overall everyone does benefit by reducing the effects of calamity for everyone.
You mean only the lazy who actually would rather live off the work of others? That’s a very low number compared to all the others.
As Dan noted above, raise wages back up to a level of living wages. Bring the median household income up above $60k. AND lower the cost of and raise the availability of health care. Get “for profit” out of the government military and other public responsibilities unless regulated up their arse. The low or unregulated so-called “free market” has proven to often be predatory and not acting in the public good.
And it’s not just “free” university. University is not required for everyone. Or “free” vocational education. Attach strings to repay the investment. Americorps or Peace Corps programs? For that matter bring back national service for everyone, no exemptions & not limited to the military. I know some view that as government control but it’s also how one pays back the investment. As for government involvement always being to the detriment of people “and freedom,” that is patently untrue. As for “intelligent design,” those curriculum are unintelligent design by religious groups. How about keeping religion out of government and education as a better answer than just blaming government. And consider these unintelligent designers are local school boards, not the Federal government.
As for government control, I had a public education & don’t feel like the government is controlling me. My & my wife’s salaries also partially benefit from government subsidies, I don’t feel like the government is controlling me.I see many benefits of taxes from my salary even if not directly to me. Even to those who claim to decry and abhor government and government retirement and healthcare while they simultaneously enjoy those benefits or stable government and benefits.
Keep government out of my healthcare & social security and freedom? People should see how much of any of those you would have without government.
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Voters have shown that there is no punishment for obstructing the maximum amount possible. Why on earth should the democrats not embrace such tactics? Take a look at congress and the state governments to see how successful Obama’s “when they go low we go high” non-sense was.
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Chaffetz & many other Republicans feeling some heat from some angry voters who don’t support their plans and agenda to repeal Obamacare & so many other things. Tom McClintock had to have police escort to exit town meeting.
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/swarming-crowds-and-hostile-questions-are-the-new-normal-at-gop-town-halls/2017/02/10/376ddf7c-efcc-11e6-b4ff-ac2cf509efe5_story.html]https://www.washingtonpos…c2cf509efe5_story.html[/link]
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New CDC data: [url=http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-obamacare-uninsured-rate-20170214-story.html]US uninsured rate hits lowest level ever.[/url]
In the first nine months of 2016, just 8.8% of Americans lacked health coverage, survey data from the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention show.
That was down from 16% in 2010, when President Obama signed the healthcare law, often called Obamacare.
The new report released Tuesday which is based on surveys of more than 73,000 peoples health insurance nationally indicates that approximately 20.4 million people have gained coverage since 2010.
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Not for long
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/trump-health-officials-propose-rule-to-shore-up-affordable-care-act-marketplaces/2017/02/15/1f69bd7c-f307-11e6-b9c9-e83fce42fb61_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-more-top-stories_obamacare-0941pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.ca8b9b275390#comments]https://www.washingtonpos….ca8b9b275390#comments[/link]
Considering all the GOP complaints about high deductible plans, access and cost, it is interesting that the short term solution is to allow smaller networks (less choice); higher premiums; and higher deductibles along with decreasing the funds to run the program through the mandate-
Isn’t that what the Trumpets voted for?
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Hey look they are still stirring around conservative gruel but still can’t make a meal even after 7 years of promise
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/house-gop-discusses-obamacare-replacement-ideas–but-doesnt-call-them-a-plan/2017/02/16/340aa49e-f442-11e6-b9c9-e83fce42fb61_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-banner-main_obamacare-1240p%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.cd5fd47e931f]https://www.washingtonpos…utm_term=.cd5fd47e931f[/link]-
SC Mark Sanford told his crowd that they have already won on certain Obamacare issues–interesting because Politico ran an article on him and he was like basically I can oppose Trump since I am like a dead man walking–I guess when u survive what he has been thru
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Trump’s awesome health care plan? … there isn’t going to be one
CNBC: [url=http://www.cnbc.com/2017/02/22/congressional-republicans-dont-expect-trump-to-offer-his-own-health-or-tax-plans.html]Congressional Republicans don’t expect Trump to offer his own health or tax plans[/url]
I guess Trump learned from the previous administration because that hands-off approach to health care worked so smoothly for Obama too. :rolleyes:
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floating on the internet
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Quote from dergon
Trump’s awesome health care plan? … there isn’t going to be one
CNBC: [link=http://www.cnbc.com/2017/02/22/congressional-republicans-dont-expect-trump-to-offer-his-own-health-or-tax-plans.html]Congressional Republicans don’t expect Trump to offer his own health or tax plans[/link]
I guess Trump learned from the previous administration because that hands-off approach to health care worked so smoothly for Obama too. :rolleyes:
I don’t expect Congress to do much either. They bellyache about the ACA but now that they have reins we hear crickets. They’re going out of their way to try and tank their own town halls. The people that show up are putting a beat down on them and then they blame liberals. Hate to tell ’em but not all of their constituents are going to be from their own party or even agree with them.
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
I don’t expect Congress to do much either. They bellyache about the ACA but now that they have reins we hear crickets. They’re going out of there way to try and tank their own town halls. The people that show up are putting a beat down on them and then they blame liberals. Hate to tell ’em but not all of their constituents are going to be from their own party or even agree with them.
NYT: [url=https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/23/us/politics/obamacare-affordable-care-act-house-republicans.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0]Repeal of Health Law Now Faces Obstacles in House, Not Just in Senate: after weeks of loud protests, boisterous town hall meetings and scores of quieter meetings with health care professionals, patients, caregivers and hospital managers in their districts, it is becoming increasingly likely that a consensus in the House may be just as hard to reach.[/url]The most conservative House members are pushing for a fast repeal of the health law with only a bare-bones replacement to follow, possibly just bigger incentives for people to open health savings accounts to fund their own health needs. Other Republicans are more interested in taking their time to come up with a replacement plan that, as of now, they have failed to cobble together beyond a menu of options.
Among the increasingly concerned Republicans are those who represent the 24 congressional districts that Hillary Clinton won in the presidential election roughly the numerical edge Republicans hold over Democrats in the House and another dozen in districts that President Barack Obama took in 2012 but President Trump won in November. If 25 conservative hard-liners oppose any robust replacement plan, and 30 swing-district House members demand a more generous plan, passage of a compromise bill will be in jeopardy.
Further, recent polls show increasing enthusiasm for the health law as Americans see its repeal on the horizon; an NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll found last month that more people viewed the law as a good idea than as a bad one for the first time since 2009, when the poll commenced. For Republicans in swing districts in California, New Jersey, New York and other states, the combination is a wicked brew: Those members need to build a winning coalition of base voters who hate the law and independents and crossover voters who have recently cottoned to it.
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So all those who voted for Trump so he can “fix” the ACA, are they wondering what “fix” means? So far Trump hasn’t come up with anything & the plans Republicans have spoken about will dump a lot of people out of insurance. Jim Jordan today kept referring to how only people who pay taxes should get tax credits. He kept avoiding answering what happens to others, will they be dumped? He only kept answering that the “new” insurance will be affordable, whatever that means in the real world. And how the ACA tacked on so many “unnecessary” requirements. Like what? Anything less than catastrophic? Or is catastrophic the unnecessary part?
So far the Trump voters who expect something better look like they will be sorely disappointed in the realizations of their expectations. Like jobs returning. Like coal jobs they way it used to be in the 1950’s.-
Remember too, trump promised it would be better and everyone would love it
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And that everyone would be covered.
There’s a bridge in Brooklyn I can sell you on the cheap too.
Question is are the Republicans worried enough about both the “paid protesters” and their own constituents who enjoy the benefits of the ACA (even if they don’t want to admit it) to actually do something constructive? Or don’t they care who they throw under the bus so long as they can get government out of the ACA and Medicare? Social Security on the chopping block next?
Their solution is block grants. As we all know how well block grants work, just think of reimbursements. A guaranteed way to starve funding.-
Kelly Conway from CPAC
[link=http://www.cleveland.com/nation/index.ssf/2017/02/kellyanne_conways_advice_for_y.html]http://www.cleveland.com/…ways_advice_for_y.html[/link]
“Have a conversation with people, engage other folks. There are so many people who are out there, who agree with you, or don’t realize that they agree with you or [b]want to learn more about repealing, replacing Obamacare[/b] or for what it means to have school choice and charter schools, etc. So engage in those conversations.”
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Charter schools are a fng joke
Basically no oversight
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A bit of confidence flaking off in the faces of angry constituents. Very many too afraid to even have townhall meetings with constituents. The Fear of God.
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/republicans-distance-themselves-from-trumps-agenda-at-rowdy-town-halls/2017/02/23/d6c49a9e-f976-11e6-be05-1a3817ac21a5_story.html]https://www.washingtonpos…a3817ac21a5_story.html[/link]
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Rep. Louie Gohmert of Texas invokes the attack on Gabby Giffords as the excuse for not having town hall meetings with his constituents.
Gabby tells him to grow a pair.
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/02/23/republican-lawmaker-who-wont-hold-a-town-hall-invokes-gabby-giffords-shooting-she-responds-have-some-courage]https://www.washingtonpos…onds-have-some-courage[/link]
As Republican lawmakers across the country have faced raucous, chaotic town halls in recent days, a number have [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/02/17/gop-finds-fix-for-chaotic-town-halls-dont-hold-them/?utm_term=.83c95dab4a71]refused[/link] to have these events. Some [link=http://www.kiro7.com/news/local/congressman-reichert-wont-hold-town-halls-cites-safety/496609917]cited safety[/link] as a reason, while others said they didnt want their events [link=http://www.northjersey.com/story/news/2017/02/13/gop-rep-macarthur-avoids-town-hall-tumult/97845830/]hijacked[/link] by [link=http://www.northjersey.com/story/news/new-jersey/2017/02/20/most-state-gop-delegation-buck-pressure-hold-town-halls/98057796/]the confrontations[/link] seen elsewhere.
Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Tex.), in [link=http://gohmert.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=398419]a statement[/link] released this week, blamed his decision not to hold these events in person on the threat of violence at town hall meetings. He also pointed to a specific violent event to bolster his case, invoking the 2011 shooting that severely injured Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) and killed six others.
The former congresswoman responded Thursday, and she made clear that she does not agree with lawmakers shying away from meeting with members of the public.
To the politicians who have abandoned their civic obligations, I say this: Have some courage, Giffords said in [link=http://americansforresponsiblesolutions.org/2017/02/23/townhall/]a statement[/link]. Face your constituents. Hold town halls.
Though the National Republican Congressional Committee has warned of potential violence at town halls, the events this week have been peaceful, with the harshest treatment limited to heckling and boos, as The Washington Posts Dave Weigel [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/republicans-distance-themselves-from-trumps-agenda-at-rowdy-town-halls/2017/02/23/d6c49a9e-f976-11e6-be05-1a3817ac21a5_story.html?utm_term=.722b4daec737]notes[/link]. (Weigel has separately written about how [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/02/06/in-echoes-of-2009-republicans-see-astroturf-in-democratic-protests/?utm_term=.68fc235da7e0]conservative media and the White House[/link] have painted the protesters as a paid, orchestrated group, which does not jibe with how the demonstrations are [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/02/06/in-echoes-of-2009-republicans-see-astroturf-in-democratic-protests/?utm_term=.68fc235da7e0]actually being organized[/link].)
After Giffords survived the assassination attempt, she and her husband, retired NASA astronaut Mark Kelly, [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/gabrielle-giffords-mark-kelly-urging-gun-responsibility-not-control/2013/07/03/a8dac710-e350-11e2-aef3-339619eab080_story.html?utm_term=.28786f849a3c]formed Americans for Responsible Solutions[/link], a group pushing for[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/03/04/the-latest-gabby-giffords-push-for-modest-gun-controls-is-new-the-outlook-isnt/?utm_term=.ebfcded789af]stronger gun control laws[/link].
Their campaign has [link=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/14/AR2011011403272.html]brought them across the country[/link], which Giffords also noted in her statement Thursday, stating that she held dozens of public events over the past year.
We should all donate to buy these Republicans some ” p ussy hats,” which instead of indicating displeasure with “small hands” Trump are rather indicative of these representatives’ lack of courage.
Meow.
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[h3]For Dr. Price to chew on–physician do no harm–kicking 24 mill off insurance is quite harmeful[/h3] [h3]HIPPOCRATIC OATH: MODERN VERSION[/h3] I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant:
I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow.
I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.
I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon’s knife or the chemist’s drug.
I will not be ashamed to say “I know not,” nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient’s recovery.
I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God.
I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person’s family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.
I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.
I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.
If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help.
Written in 1964 by Louis Lasagna, Academic Dean of the School of Medicine at Tufts University, and used in many medical schools today.
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Pu$$y grabber supporter
What do you expect
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Trumpyan Care
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Dutch say no to trump-like choice–only Americans would fall for the orange guy
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Assuming all Democrats vote against the Obamacare repeal-and-replace plan, House Republican leaders can afford no more than 21 defections from their own ranks to pass the bill.
NBC News reports there are 26 GOP lawmakers who are either opposed or leaning strongly against the bill.
CNN reports that House Freedom Caucus chairman Mark Meadows (R-NC) says there are still more than 21 no votes” in the group.
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Quote from dergon
Assuming all Democrats vote against the Obamacare repeal-and-replace plan, House Republican leaders can afford no more than 21 defections from their own ranks to pass the bill.
NBC News reports there are 26 GOP lawmakers who are either opposed or leaning strongly against the bill.
CNN reports that House Freedom Caucus chairman Mark Meadows (R-NC) says there are still more than 21 no votes” in the group.
If it fails to pass, then what? Is there a do-over in this type of situation or do they (republicans) have to move on to other items in their agenda?
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Quote from kpack123
Charter schools are a fng joke
Basically no oversight
Are they any worse than public schools? Apparently we spend more than any other country in education but lag behind in performance (sorta like healthcare)…my wife is a teacher, has worked both in public and charter schools, in her experience either can be effective or disastrous depending on how they’re run…from a self-serving perspective she prefers public schools due to all the perks that the union provides…
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Charter schools CAN be good. However often not necessarily so. Comparisons between charter & public have not shown charter schools to be the panacea, with charter schools often proving worse than some public schools. And many objections to de Vos had to do with the lack of accountability of many charter schools she supports. Without accountability, what do you have except a money pit for profit.
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[link=http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/note-priebus-asks-fbi-refute-trump-russia-reports/story?id=45710290]ACA approval hits all-time high[/link]
[link=http://kff.org/interactive/kaiser-health-tracking-poll-the-publics-views-on-the-aca/#?response=Favorable–Unfavorable&aRange=twoYear]http://kff.org/interactive/kaiser-health-tracking-poll-the-publics-views-on-the-aca/#?response=Favorable–Unfavorable&aRange=twoYear[/link]
Approve 48%/ Disapprove 42%
The best thing to happen to Obamacare might have been Donald Trump. A new Kaiser tracking poll has the approval rating for the Affordable Care Act up to 48 percent the highest its been in some 60 such polls. Lawmakers, of course, are hearing about that newfound popularity firsthand at raucous town halls that are developing into mirror-image opposites of the famous Tea Party events that hurt the bills popularity back in 2009 and 2010.
With President Trumps address to Congress coming on the eve of the month slated for repeal/replace, it may be that Republicans have lost critical momentum around what they all once agreed would be their top priority. Former House Speaker John Boehners statements on the difficulty the GOP will have in undoing Obamacare is a clue to the anxiety Republicans are feeling right now about their promise of repeal.[/QUOTE]
And a companion quote:
Americas Obamacare nightmare is about to end. Despite the best efforts of liberal activists around the country, the American people know better. Obamacare has failed, and Obamacare must go.
Vice President Mike Pence at CPAC-
Alternative facts “trump” your real facts.
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Quote from dergon
[link=http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/note-priebus-asks-fbi-refute-trump-russia-reports/story?id=45710290]ACA approval hits all-time high[/link]
[link=http://kff.org/interactive/kaiser-health-tracking-poll-the-publics-views-on-the-aca/#?response=Favorable–Unfavorable&aRange=twoYear]http://kff.org/interactive/kaiser-health-tracking-poll-the-publics-views-on-the-aca/#?response=Favorable–Unfavorable&aRange=twoYear[/link]
Approve 48%/ Disapprove 42%
That’s still less than half the country and apparently 8% have some other opinion. I was listening to some radio and they said that insurance companies have to device by this may if they’ll be in the exchanges for 2018. It sounded like companies are pulling out. That seems like one of the big problems. Few if any choices, and terrible plans.
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Why are they pulling out? Because the ACA is inherently bad?
Not likely.
They are pulling out because the Republicans have said they will repeal the ACA. So if you are an insurance company that has to plan out for next year or 2, what do you do? Put your eggs in a plan the Congress has promised to dismantle?
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Quote from Frumious
Why are they pulling out? Because the ACA is inherently bad?
Not likely.
They are pulling out because the Republicans have said they will repeal the ACA. So if you are an insurance company that has to plan out for next year or 2, what do you do? Put your eggs in a plan the Congress has promised to dismantle?
Agree. It’s an unknown for them and the government has a timetable to make a decision of May. So they have to call the shot now.
I still don’t see it happening. This grand repeal won’t happen or not in a timely manner. Don’t upset the apple cart when you need to get elected in 2018. Especially since 2018 might turn out to be a repudiation of Trump/the GOP.-
Now Republicans are trying to criminalize protest and free speech AND indemnify drivers who happen to hit protesters with their cars yet!
Yeah, freedom, just don’t try to express it unless you agree with the ruling class or you could be arrested or run over by a car by someone who doesn’t like you expressing your 1st Amendment rights. We know on which side of freedom Republicans sit.
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/02/24/republican-lawmakers-introduce-bills-to-curb-protesting-in-at-least-17-states]https://www.washingtonpos…-in-at-least-17-states[/link]
Since the election of President Trump, Republican lawmakers in at least 18 states have introduced or voted on legislation to curb mass protests in what civil liberties experts are calling an attack on protest rights throughout the states.
From Virginia to Washington state, legislators have introduced bills that would [link=http://www.startribune.com/bills-to-crack-down-on-minnesota-protesters-advance-in-house/414524183/]increase punishments for blocking highways[/link], [link=http://q13fox.com/2017/02/02/missouri-lawmaker-wants-to-ban-masks-at-protests/]ban the use of masks[/link] during protests, indemnify drivers who [link=http://kdvr.com/2017/02/13/tennessee-bill-would-make-drivers-immune-from-civil-liability-if-they-hit-protesters-blocking-street/]strike protesters with their cars[/link] and, in at least once case, [link=http://azcapitoltimes.com/news/2017/02/22/arizona-senate-crackdown-on-protests/]seize the assets of people[/link] involved in protests that later turn violent. The proposals come after a string of mass protest movements in the past few years, covering everything from police shootings of unarmed black men to the Dakota Access Pipeline to the inauguration of Trump.
None of the proposed legislation has yet been passed into law, and several bills have already been shelved in committee.
Critics doubt whether many of the laws would pass Constitutional muster. The Supreme Court has gone out of its way on multiple occasions to point out that streets, sidewalks and public parks are places where [First Amendment] protections are at their most robust, said Lee Rowland, a senior attorney with the American Civil Liberties Union.
This is by no means the first time in American history that widespread protests have inspired a legislative backlash, says Douglas McAdam, a Stanford sociology professor who studies protest movements. For instance, southern legislatures especially in the Deep South responded to the Montgomery Bus Boycott (and the Supreme Court’s decision in [i]Brown v. Board of Education[/i]) with dozens and dozens of new bills outlawing civil rights groups, limiting the rights of assembly, etc. all in an effort to make civil rights organizing more difficult, he said via email.
Similarly, he added, laws designed to limit or outlaw labor organizing or limit labor rights were common in the late 19th/early 20th century.
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So in your view protest should allow the damaging of buildings during a protest, blocking roads preventing people from going places or ambulances from getting through? The protests at the airports resulted in elderly people forced to stand in lines and parents with young kids forced to endure lines and worry about their kids safety. That is OK that the person traveling has to have their plans stopped because of the first amendment?
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It’s not OK. There’s limits to free speech. Just like you can’t yell fire in a theater. People shouldn’t be able to block roads.
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There are already laws against blocking roads. And property damage. And violence. And I f you haven’t heard, even assault.
Google it. You will find to your surprise I am right.
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I understand that. The article eludes to that. The laws are to increase the punishment
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Isn’t it funny how those who claim to be so close ncerned about individual rights freedoms and responsibilities are so quick to agree to take away others individual liberties
It’s just funny
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Quote from Ixrayu
I understand that. The article eludes to that. The laws are to increase the punishment
How does a proposal to indemnify a driver of a car who hits a protester work exactly?
So the 1st Amendment is subverting Trump’s Administration & is the “enemy of the people?”
What if the protesters decided to use Angle’s suggestion of exercising their 2nd Amendment rights to use “2nd Amendment solutions” in order to protect their 1st Amendment rights? If that is freedom for the Right, why not for the protesters?
The Right is very selective about who they think is covered – or not – under the Constitution and American rights-
well Rand Paul tried–he showed up with a photocopier trying to get the GOP ACA plan–left with nothing
notice the biggest change will be it will be called the affordable care act and not obamacare-
Gotta rebrand, especially if little to nothing done. “Obamacare” is an evil jobs-killer run down the throats of Americans and Republicans but the ACA is an attempt that need improving by Republican participation.
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The ACA is proving itself to be anything but terrible and hated, except by wealthy Republicans. More and more people are lining up & many people are attending Town Hall meetings that curiously and significantly, Republican representatives are AWOL from. And of course, no “replacement’ plan in the works and the trial balloons have been shot down by angry constituents.
To add to Republicans’ worries, their own extremist caucus is against any soft of replacement that provides any sort of government support at all, even tax credits, specifically for a credit that is more than taxes paid.
“Oh what a tangled web we weave
When first we practice to deceive!”
The Republican platform in its entirety is based on lies.
[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/03/health/utah-obamacare.html]https://www.nytimes.com/2…th/utah-obamacare.html[/link]
a Utah Town Hall for All last weekend. Every member of the Utah delegation was invited, but none attended.
The health law is by no means perfect in Ms. Weimers mind; even with a subsidy, her monthly premium jumped to $95 this year, from $47, and she has a $2,500 deductible. Her insurer, Molina Health, has refused to pay for a drug, Xyrem, that helps her function, so she gets it through a charity program. Still, she said, she would have no diagnosis or access to specialists without her coverage.
I tried to call Orrin Hatch, and his voice mail box was full, she said. I would have told him, Look, this is going to personally affect me and my children, if you repeal the A.C.A.
In a statement, Mr. Hatch said the law was imploding from within, adding, Ive spoken to Utahns from all over the state and from all walks of life, and the vast majority favor our efforts to repeal and replace Obamacare with patient-centered reforms that lower costs.
Due to pent-up demand, it was like The Walking Dead coming out of the woodwork, seeking cures, said Charles Kulander, an insurance broker in Moab, describing the demand for coverage after the marketplace opened in 2013.
Frustration with the law in Moab, he said, is focused on the states refusal to expand [link=http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/health/diseasesconditionsandhealthtopics/medicaid/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier]Medicaid[/link] to adults earning up to 138 percent of the poverty level, as the health law allowed, and the fact that federal premium subsidies are available only to people earning up to 400 percent of the poverty level.
Still, many Utah residents buy insurance outside the marketplace and receive no subsidy, usually because their incomes are too high to qualify. Mike Robertson, who lives in Orem with his wife and three children, said he had switched plans this year to avoid a 66 percent increase in premium costs but still paid $1,200 a month for a family plan with no subsidy.
Doesnt feel like insurance. Feels like punishment, he said.
[b]Ms. Nelson said some of her conservative friends and relatives opposition to the law softened when they realized she was benefiting from it.[/b]
Some people have said, You know, Kim, you make us feel better about A.C.A., she said. They look at me and think, [b]She used to be a runner. She never drank or smoked, but you know what, she got breast cancer.[/b]
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[link=http://www.cbpp.org/research/federal-tax/aca-repeal-would-lavish-medicare-tax-cuts-on-400-highest-income-households]http://www.cbpp.org/resea…hest-income-households[/link]
My take on this is the republicans are giving a large tax break to the wealthiest 400 people and a bunch of people will lose their credits. Good replacement plan PAul Ryan.
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
[link=http://www.cbpp.org/research/federal-tax/aca-repeal-would-lavish-medicare-tax-cuts-on-400-highest-income-households]http://www.cbpp.org/resea…hest-income-households[/link]
My take on this is the republicans are giving a large tax break to the wealthiest 400 people and a bunch of people will lose their credits. Good replacement plan PAul Ryan.
[url=http://thefederalist.com/2017/03/06/house-republicans-rewriting-obamacare-replacement/]Republican plan would cause more people to lose coverage than repealing Obamacare outright[/url]Based on my conversations with multiple sources close to the effort, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) had indicated to congressional staff that the prior House framework could see at least 10 million, and potentially up to 20 million, individuals losing employer-sponsored health insurance. Further, CBO stated that that House framework, even after including a refundable tax credit for health insurance, would not cover many more people than repealing Obamacare outright.
By comparison, Obamacare led to about 7 million plan cancellation notices in the fall of 2013. While those cancellations caused a major political firestorm, the framework the House released prior to the recess could cause a loss of employer coverage of several times that number. Whats more, that framework as described looks for all intents and purposes like a legislative orphan appealing to no oneneither moderates nor conservativeswithin the Republican party:
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The GOP plan is a mess…and remember, I despise Obamacare.
Few worthwhile reads:
[link=https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-03-07/the-republican-plan-is-even-worse-than-obamacare]https://www.bloomberg.com…n-worse-than-obamacare[/link]
[link=https://decisiondeskhq.com/policy-dives/the-american-health-care-act-the-gop-repeal-and-replace-proposal/]https://decisiondeskhq.co…-and-replace-proposal/[/link]
[link=http://reason.com/blog/2017/03/06/the-gops-obamacare-repeal-bill-is-here-i]http://reason.com/blog/20…-repeal-bill-is-here-i[/link]
[link=https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2017/03/07/house-gops-obamacare-replacement-will-make-coverage-unaffordable-for-millions-otherwise-its-great/#25e1edbd37fd]https://www.forbes.com/si…ts-great/#25e1edbd37fd[/link]
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Quote from MISTRAD
The GOP plan is a mess…and remember, I despise Obamacare.
Few worthwhile reads:
[link=https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-03-07/the-republican-plan-is-even-worse-than-obamacare]https://www.bloomberg.com…n-worse-than-obamacare[/link]
[link=https://decisiondeskhq.com/policy-dives/the-american-health-care-act-the-gop-repeal-and-replace-proposal/]https://decisiondeskhq.co…-and-replace-proposal/[/link]
[link=http://reason.com/blog/2017/03/06/the-gops-obamacare-repeal-bill-is-here-i]http://reason.com/blog/20…-repeal-bill-is-here-i[/link]
[link=https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2017/03/07/house-gops-obamacare-replacement-will-make-coverage-unaffordable-for-millions-otherwise-its-great/#25e1edbd37fd]https://www.forbes.com/si…ts-great/#25e1edbd37fd[/link]
Deja Vu all over again.
This puts us back almost precisely where we were 7 years ago.
Why is the Republican plan a mess? What is the criteria? As I recall one of your primary criticisms about the ACA was that it did not address cost (which seems an oxymoron considering, I mean costs from where and what exactly & how should it have addressed? Providers? Procedures? Where?) and was not open, meaning information about costs, etc was still kept from patients. I still see neither of those being addressed in the Republican proposal.
IMO, there is a more fundamental problem from your side, the belief that a plan should be created in the 1st place and that the government has a major function to create and regulate any such plan in the 2nd place. The Fundamentalists believe the ACA should be repealed entirely, period, and no replacement plan should be proposed. The Pauls are believers in that non-plan, lassaiz-faire, whatever the fates decree & whether or not an individual has the resources to resist is an individual problem, not any one else’s responsibility, certainly not society’s by any means. Then the other faction where it’s a matter helping others as a cost to their personal pockets. The so-called “Freedom” groups & Tea Party. Of course they will take whatever they deem themselves entitled to regardless, IMO. Then there are those Republicans who believe something should happen but by comparison it looks like a fig leaf, something they can point to, not something really functional. There are very few Republicans who believe in a real plan that addresses issues such as affordable health for everyone that is not a fig leaf or a death panel of GOP design, but is actually functional, probably less than the fingers on my 1 hand.
So after that is explained there the rest follows, whether there is a plan at all or what a plan would look like.
So I never did understand any such plan as existing. Even the Heritage Plan was only a result of a counter move to Hillary’s plan in the 1990’s.
Is there a there, there? Was there ever? There was Romneycare but that was quickly disavowed as the discussions began for the ACA & even Romney had to disavow his own accomplishment.
So what there is there? Is there supposed to be a there? Or just, as your posted articles mention, just the illusion of an effort, meaning barely an effort, just a speck Republicans can point to but less than we have now. Much less, almost nothing.
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Reminds me of the immigration debate
Republicans can’t even decide amongst themselves how they want to handle the problem
So nothing ever gets done
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the stupid states that did not do what Ohio and Arizona did–again lose out on federal bucks
-no malpractice
-no cost containment for knee replacements/ stents..surgeries
The insurance companies are not going to sit around for 2 -4 years to allow the GOP to keep their seats–they will raise premiums and dump patients-
now called the American health care act–what a load of
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8 years and all the GOP can come up with is ObamaCare light
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older people will pay more–oh yeah the entitled baby boomers will like that
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COME ON PEOPLE! I want to hear from those Trump supporters who voted for Trump because he was going to fix the ACA so it was better than Obamacare.
WHERE ARE YOU?
Now that we have heard Trump’s latest remark and are now seeing the GOP’s proposals your wishes have come true, yes?
As soon as the CBO score comes in it will prove a better plan. Unless the Republicans don’t want the CBO to score the plan. Why not?-
If anything he’s on record saying liberal things about healthcare. Like “take care of everybody”. One of the things I find strange is that this seems to allow insurance to be punitive if have a coverage lapse. What happens if someone loses a job? You might lapse coverage and then it would be like open season for insurance gougers.
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thank u ==so if you lose coverage because u cannot work then u will be perpetually in an uninsured cycle because u will never be able to raise the funds to get insurance–which will force high ER visits and which hospitals will parlay loss of payment to insured people which leads to higher premiums-
Quote from DICOM_Dan
If anything he’s on record saying liberal things about healthcare. Like “take care of everybody”. One of the things I find strange is that this seems to allow insurance to be punitive if have a coverage lapse. What happens if someone loses a job? You might lapse coverage and then it would be like open season for insurance gougers.
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Quote from Frumious
COME ON PEOPLE! I want to hear from those Trump supporters who voted for Trump because he was going to fix the ACA so it was better than Obamacare.
WHERE ARE YOU?
Now that we have heard Trump’s latest remark and are now seeing the GOP’s proposals your wishes have come true, yes?
As soon as the CBO score comes in it will prove a better plan. Unless the Republicans don’t want the CBO to score the plan. Why not?
Didn’t vote for Trump and do not have a detailed understanding of this new bill but let’s be fair and use the same criteria we did for the ACA…let’s first pass it to see what’s actually in it and then lets wait at least 5-7 years until it has serious issues before we attempt to address them (for the ACA think we should have jacked up penalties so that the young/healthy had to buy in)…btw are the CBO estimates accurate/relevant? 2012 CBO’s scoring put ACA at 2 Trillion (for 10 years?), in 2009 think the number was around 900 billion…
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Quote from sentinel lymph node
older people will pay more–oh yeah the entitled baby boomers will like that
Tough, they use more they pay more. Now how much more is open to debate…we are all paying for their SS/medicare benefits, benefits which we will likely never receive so cry me a river…
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You know it’s bad when Even Anne Coulter is bad mouthing it. Tweet from Trump almost looks like he saying Paul should come through with something else.
I feel sure that my friend @RandPaul will come along with the new and great health care program because he knows Obamacare is a disaster!
[link=http://www.mediaite.com/online/ann-coulter-wants-to-know-who-wrote-this-piece-of-crap-obamacare-replacement-bill/]http://www.mediaite.com/o…care-replacement-bill/[/link]
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note to Chaffetz-a knee replacement cost more than an I-phone
– AARP and American Hospital Association against
-will hit rural areas/older patients
-made bone head states that did not take the Fed bucks look stupid now
and Spicer tried to pull the old Trump visual affect of a pile of pages–ridiculous -
Quote from DICOM_Dan
You know it’s bad when Even Anne Coulter is bad mouthing it. Tweet from Trump almost looks like he saying Paul should come through with something else.
I feel sure that my friend @RandPaul will come along with the new and great health care program because he knows Obamacare is a disaster!
[link=http://www.mediaite.com/online/ann-coulter-wants-to-know-who-wrote-this-piece-of-crap-obamacare-replacement-bill/]http://www.mediaite.com/o…care-replacement-bill/[/link]
Coulter is a right wing nut so maybe her bad mouthing it is a good thing?…the left and far-right seem to hate the plan for various reasons, what is this perfect HC plan that everyone is seeking? Single-Payor government system? Total free market system with end of medicaid/care and everyone on their own?
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Some shade being thrown At Chaffetz for his iPhone comment.
“If you really like your existing iPhone, do you get to keep it under the Republican health care plan?”
[link=http://www.someecards.com/news/politics/jason-chaffetz-healthcare-iphones/]http://www.someecards.com…tz-healthcare-iphones/[/link]
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
Some shade being thrown At Chaffetz for his iPhone comment.
“If you really like your existing iPhone, do you get to keep it under the Republican health care plan?”
[link=http://www.someecards.com/news/politics/jason-chaffetz-healthcare-iphones/]http://www.someecards.com…tz-healthcare-iphones/[/link]
yet Obama had similar sentiments:
In a lengthy answer, Obama speculated about someone making $40,000-$50,000 a year, who thinks an insurance option that costs $300 a month is too much. I guess what I would say is if you looked at that persons budget and you looked at their cable bill, their telephone cell phone bill, other things that theyre spending on, it may turn out that they just havent prioritized health care because right now everybody is healthy,” he said.
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jd4540,
you be fair – and honest. The plans on the ACA were publicly available to read long before the vote took place. You are shilling pure propaganda saying people did not know what was in the ACA. And there was always Romneycare as the working model, the ACA being a mirror copy made national. And you could always start with the original plan written in the 90’s as the Conservative market plan.
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And as for cost of healthcare, jd4540, exactly how cheap do you think yours is?
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Quote from Frumious
And as for cost of healthcare, jd4540, exactly how cheap do you think yours is?
Right now it’s about 12-13K/year for my wife and I who are both pretty healthy (my small group does not provide insurance), coverage is also excellent…honestly I am not worried about my costs, I am fortunate to be able to afford this…I just dislike partisan politics where the opposition’s ideas are automatically dismissed as idiotic…I could live with the ACA, it just needed some tweaking (we have patient’s on exchange policies that need to travel 60 miles to our hospital for a biopsy bc the 3 large healthcare systems in the city don’t accept their insurance)….on a side note I would be happy to see macra/mips/IPAB gone… -
Quote from jd4540
Quote from Frumious
And as for cost of healthcare, jd4540, exactly how cheap do you think yours is?
Right now it’s about 12-13K/year for my wife and I who are both pretty healthy (my small group does not provide insurance), coverage is also excellent…honestly I am not worried about my costs, I am fortunate to be able to afford this…I just dislike partisan politics where the opposition’s ideas are automatically dismissed as idiotic…I could live with the ACA, it just needed some tweaking (we have patient’s on exchange policies that need to travel 60 miles to our hospital for a biopsy bc the 3 large healthcare systems in the city don’t accept their insurance)….on a side note I would be happy to see macra/mips/IPAB gone…
That’s about right. The idea was always that the ACA was not perfect (what is?) and retired tweaking. It was a 1st try. Countries with Universal Health are always tweaking to improve their plans.
Ignorance about health care runs rampant. Apparently Jason Chaffetz thinks you could buy your health care plan for the cost of an iPhone.
If only.
But then his comments are another Republican smoke screen akin to complaining, “Can the poor really be poor when they have TV & cable?” Now the proof is they have an iPhone, so how poor can they really be?
I think the proper term is “lies.” Republicans are opposed to providing health care subsidies, period. Even if it means millions of uninsured who die as a direct result.
Worse than “Death Panels.”
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amen–I want to keep the medical device tax because that provides needed bucks and don’t tell me companies will stop trying to make the new improved CT/MRI/PET —
Quote from Frumious
jd4540,
you be fair – and honest. The plans on the ACA were publicly available to read long before the vote took place. You are shilling pure propaganda saying people did not know what was in the ACA. And there was always Romneycare as the working model, the ACA being a mirror copy made national. And you could always start with the original plan written in the 90’s as the Conservative market plan.
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Older people are reliable voters–kiss Florida voters goodbye
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Everyone will be covered–no one dying on the streets
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Quote from sentinel lymph node
Older people are reliable voters–kiss Florida voters goodbye
Many of them will not be around in 2020….SLN you know leaders should lead based on their conscience and convictions not based on potential future campaigns…
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honey–these people will hang on–Obama won 8 years–after the first 4 the GOP thought he wAS done and Romney lost primarily because he could not run on his own health care reform in Mass
–if reminds me of GodFather 2 were they thought the guy would die off–nopeQuote from jd4540
Quote from sentinel lymph node
Older people are reliable voters–kiss Florida voters goodbye
Many of them will not be around in 2020….SLN you know leaders should lead based on their conscience and convictions not based on potential future campaigns…
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I’d Love to see congress get forced out of their healthcare and have to buy it on the open market. See what they come up with at that point.
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like some of the real old guys
Quote from DICOM_Dan
I’d Love to see congress get forced out of their healthcare and have to buy it on the open market. See what they come up with at that point.
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Rand can run in 2020 if he opposes–his state has used Obamacare and please note that the GOP Governor has not touched the healthcare issue in that state
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the GOP don’t seem to comprehend that insurance companies already operate in multiple states–hello BCBS/Kaiser
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It’s funny cause Obamacare is exactly what the GOP wanted in the 90s. And now they have it and hate it they are forced to try to conjure up something even less helpful…based on tax credits of course. Terrible, terrible public policy but I would expect nothing less.
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Quote from Frumious
Quote from MISTRAD
The GOP plan is a mess…and remember, I despise Obamacare.
Why is the Republican plan a mess?
IMO, there is a more fundamental problem from your side, the belief that a plan should be created in the 1st place and that the government has a major function to create and regulate any such plan in the 2nd place. ….There are very few Republicans who believe in a real plan that addresses issues such as affordable health for everyone that is not a fig leaf or a death panel of GOP design, but is actually functional, probably less than the fingers on my 1 hand.
So after that is explained there the rest follows, whether there is a plan at all or what a plan would look like.
Best headline I’ve seen yet:[link=https://politicalwire.com/2017/03/08/politics-bad-policy-worse/]The Politics Is Bad But the Policy Is Worse[/link]
They rarely agree on much, but health care experts on the left, right and center of the political spectrum have found consensus on the House GOPs Obamacare replacement: [b]It wont work.[/b]
While their objections vary depending on their ideological goals, the newly introduced Affordable Health Care Act (AHCA) is facing an unrelenting wave of criticism. Some experts warn that the bill is flawed in ways that could unravel the individual insurance market.
Lets start with the primary objection from the center and left: Its very likely people will lose insurance coverage if the GOP plan became law, taking full effect in 2020. Possibly a lot of people Republicans have long argued that the goal of a replacement should be to reduce the cost of insurance and health care procedures rather than simply hand money over to individuals to buy it. But experts complain that the GOP plan leaves out the most prominent proposals (especially among conservatives) that might drive costs down. And some of its features could potentially drive prices higher.
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This plan looks like a non-starter. Republicans have problems with it. Interesting stat I heard on NPR. States the accepted the Medicaid under the ACA have a lower divorce rate among the older population like 50-64 I think it said. Reason being in states that didn’t people get divorced to protect their retirement assets. If one spouse get’s sick they can burn through their money and at that point qualify for Medicaid. Since it’s split at like 50/50-ish on researchers are able to do some comparisons.
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[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C6WDmPrVAAAw1-Q.jpg[/img]
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