[kayla.meyer_144]

That skinny girl in high heels “body-checked” a bouncer?
 
Who was the bouncer, Richard Simmons? Or some 5 year old?
 
Sounds like a monumental lie.
 
“Normal procedure” should include arresting & prosecuting police for abuse of powers up to and including termination and jail time.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Man dragged off United airlines flight because he didn’t want to give up his seat for United employees who “had” to have his seat.
 
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr-gridlock/wp/2017/04/10/a-man-wouldnt-leave-an-overbooked-united-flight-so-he-was-dragged-off-battered-and-limp]https://www.washingtonpos…-off-battered-and-limp[/link]
 
Consumers & citizens becoming 2nd class, if even that privileged. Authority rules. Even corporations have police powers now.
 
 

[kaldridgewv2211]

I had heard about this but didn’t realize they were booting people to the benefit of their employees.  It’s disturbing they were able to get the cops to do their dirty work, sounds like they knocked the guy out.  This is somewhere that government should step in, and make regulations because you can’t count on airlines to do the right thing.  
 
 

[kayla.meyer_144]

“Job-killing” regulations that are anti-business?

[19462008]

Quote from Frumious

Man dragged off United airlines flight because he didn’t want to give up his seat for United employees who “had” to have his seat.

[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr-gridlock/wp/2017/04/10/a-man-wouldnt-leave-an-overbooked-united-flight-so-he-was-dragged-off-battered-and-limp]https://www.washingtonpos…-off-battered-and-limp[/link]

Consumers & citizens becoming 2nd class, if even that privileged. Authority rules. Even corporations have police powers now.

There are rules when you fly. You all know that unless you are clueless. Apparently, the good Doctor did not want to follow them when Asked “First” to give up his seat as a volunteer. He would have been rescheduled on a later flight and/or given compensation for it. Flights are always over booked because the majority of times, people don’t show up and therefore the “Stand-by” people (that some of you have done before) get on. 
 
So what’s the problem? He acted like a little crying “Bi**ch when he did not cooperate and got pulled off. He delayed everyone else leaving on time because… he would not cooperate when asked. He made everyone else late or missed their connections… because he did not cooperate. 
 
I’ve seen clowns like this over the past 25  years traveling. I’m a million miler, Premium platinum on United. Even my High status doesn’t guarantee a seat a certain times. 
 
Maybe next time, he should take the train or a bus. What a bumbling Idiot. I hope he Sh** his pants and got a Wedgie when they pulled him off. 
 
 

[kayla.meyer_144]

It’s not voluntary if you are dragged out of your seat & bleeding.

“Rules” seems like a joke if you can be physically attacked. Refusing to “voluntarily” surrender your seat does not deserve physical violence regardless of “rules.”

Don’t think I’ll be flying United ever.

[kaldridgewv2211]

not their first PR issue lately.  They had the goof about not letting people fly wearing leggings.  This one will most likely be costly for them.
 
My understanding is they randomly picked people to boot off the plane, and yeah it’s certainly not voluntary when they have the police whoop your butt and drag you off.

[btomba_77]

According to the contract of carriage they must make good faith effort to find volunteers to voluntarily leave the flight.

Failing that, United is within its rights to remove flyers involuntarily. It is called an IDB.

He did not have a right to remain in his seat.

United was well within their rights to contact law-enforcement when the chosen passenger did not comply.

Whether or not the law enforcement officers acted appropriately is unclear.

We do not know whether the escalation of force was appropriate or not. We do not know how many times he was given the chance to comply. And based on what the video shows we are not sure whether his injuries were accidental/incidental or caused by excessive force.

[kaldridgewv2211]

I’m sure that’s exactly right, when you buy the ticket you probably agree to whatever mumbo jumbo legal jargon that they can boot you.  Just like when a person clicks “I Accept” to Apple 1000 page ToS without looking over the whole thing.  However, I think most people would think if you paid for a seat, did the check in, you’d probably get to fly.  It wasn’t like standby.  Dude’s probably going to make some bank on a settlement.
 
In United’s defense they only said the SKIES were friendly, not the ground.

[btomba_77]

United will give him token compensation.
 
He will have no legal case (unless some additional information comes forward).
 
He *may* be able to make a case against the LEOs for excessive force.  We don’t know enough at this point to judge.

[kayla.meyer_144]

It might be a bit more than token as the optics are poor regardless of legal agreement interpretation. The video does not exactly put United in a sympathetic light. Maybe United will stand on the principle of him signing the agreement regardless if people think these agreements are literal. But 1st story I know of about forced removal using force on video.

[kaldridgewv2211]

The Atlantic posted this on their article. Supposedly this is right from their contract language. This to me makes it look like United is in the wrong. People already boarded have priority.

I’d still see this as pay day for the guy. In the court of public opinion they lost today. So I’d think they pay to make it go away.

“Boarding Priorities – If a flight is Oversold, no one may be denied boarding against his/her will until UA or other carrier personnel first ask for volunteers who will give up their reservations willingly in exchange for compensation as determined by UA. If there are not enough volunteers, other Passengers may be denied boarding involuntarily in accordance with UAs boarding priority.”

[link=https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/04/united-video-scandal-law/522552/]https://www.theatlantic.c…eo-scandal-law/522552/[/link]

[btomba_77]

 I’d be skeptical of that legal reasoning. There is long and extensive precedent giving airlines latitude in removing passengers even post-boarding. For instance, weight issues on a smaller plane, or safety concerns when a seat or row of seats is discovered to be unsafe after the boarding process… or even removing obese passengers who do not fit into a single seat.
 
 

[afazio.uk_887]

The guy was a doctor apparently.

[100574]

who had to work the next day which is why he withdrew his initial ok I will do it–interesting that they chose to drag him given he is a minority–he should sue for discrimination–when he came back on he was clearly dis oriented from what ever cause the cut—-he should also start a movement to boycott that plane
–when u buy a ticket and the company accepts–u have rights as well–this is why the first day of the unannounced Trump ban went down so badly

Quote from yesterdaysnews

The guy was a doctor apparently.

[tdetlie_105]

Quote from sentinel lymph node

who had to work the next day which is why he withdrew his initial ok I will do it–interesting that they chose to drag him given he is a minority–he should sue for discrimination–when he came back on he was clearly dis oriented from what ever cause the cut—-he should also start a movement to boycott that plane
–when u buy a ticket and the company accepts–u have rights as well–this is why the first day of the unannounced Trump ban went down so badly

Quote from yesterdaysnews

The guy was a doctor apparently.

Take this with a grain of salt but according to TMZ this doctor has a very shady past (convictions related to painkillers)…this absolutely does not justify his treatment at all, but what a freakn PR mess for all parties involved if true…
 

[100574]

ok so here we go with the Treyvon Martin pr defense–oh he had weed–when u pay for a ticket–the airline should not drag u from a plane like u are cattle–disgusting and just the beginning of the Trump police state
United overbooked and they need to OWN it

Quote from jd4540

Quote from sentinel lymph node

who had to work the next day which is why he withdrew his initial ok I will do it–interesting that they chose to drag him given he is a minority–he should sue for discrimination–when he came back on he was clearly dis oriented from what ever cause the cut—-he should also start a movement to boycott that plane
–when u buy a ticket and the company accepts–u have rights as well–this is why the first day of the unannounced Trump ban went down so badly

Quote from yesterdaysnews

The guy was a doctor apparently.

Take this with a grain of salt but according to TMZ this doctor has a very shady past (convictions related to painkillers)…this absolutely does not justify his treatment at all, but what a freakn PR mess for all parties involved if true…

[tdetlie_105]

Quote from sentinel lymph node

ok so here we go with the Treyvon Martin pr defense–oh he had weed–when u pay for a ticket–the airline should not drag u from a plane like u are cattle–disgusting and just the beginning of the Trump police state
United overbooked and they need to OWN it

Quote from jd4540

Quote from sentinel lymph node

who had to work the next day which is why he withdrew his initial ok I will do it–interesting that they chose to drag him given he is a minority–he should sue for discrimination–when he came back on he was clearly dis oriented from what ever cause the cut—-he should also start a movement to boycott that plane
–when u buy a ticket and the company accepts–u have rights as well–this is why the first day of the unannounced Trump ban went down so badly

Quote from yesterdaysnews

The guy was a doctor apparently.

Take this with a grain of salt but according to TMZ this doctor has a very shady past (convictions related to painkillers)..[b].this absolutely does not justify his treatment at all, but what a freakn PR mess for all parties involved if true…[/b]

take a deep breath and re-read what I wrote. My point was that this guy’s reputation is going get damaged from this fiasco if this stuff is true.  If I was turning over a new leaf, I would not want my current co-workers and current patients to know of my past wrong-doings, would you?…I am however impressed how quickly you tied this situation in to race and Trump though, well done[8|]

[kaldridgewv2211]

Amazing that after their stock started going down that the United CEO has changed his tune to apologies and we will fix this.

[btomba_77]

I sent a message to Mr. Munoz this morning. Here’s the jist: I’ve been a [link=https://www.facebook.com/United/?hc_location=ufi]United[/link] (and Continental) elite flyer for nearly 20 years. I’ve stayed with them through the de-hubbing of Cleveland, through countless delays, through broken equipment and mechanical failures and through the devaluation of the frequent flyer program. I am lucky. I often travel in first or at least get better economy. I still often get excited and happy to fly. …But when I board my United flight this Friday morning I am going to be embarrassed to be coming aboard. I expect real policy changes to come out of this event.

[100574]

doc remains in hospital for in his words “everything”

[100574]

Praying for you–I hope docs are not put in category that they should be the one’s booted first because United overbooked

Quote from dergon

I sent a message to Mr. Munoz this morning. Here’s the jist: I’ve been a [link=https://www.facebook.com/United/?hc_location=ufi]United[/link] (and Continental) elite flyer for nearly 20 years. I’ve stayed with them through the de-hubbing of Cleveland, through countless delays, through broken equipment and mechanical failures and through the devaluation of the frequent flyer program. I am lucky. I often travel in first or at least get better economy. I still often get excited and happy to fly. …But when I board my United flight this Friday morning I am going to be embarrassed to be coming aboard. I expect real policy changes to come out of this event.

[100574]

I was not refering to u–I was complaining of TMZ/United / media that always seem to blame the victim for something not related to the primary issue–no offense

Quote from jd4540

Quote from sentinel lymph node

ok so here we go with the Treyvon Martin pr defense–oh he had weed–when u pay for a ticket–the airline should not drag u from a plane like u are cattle–disgusting and just the beginning of the Trump police state
United overbooked and they need to OWN it

Quote from jd4540

Quote from sentinel lymph node

who had to work the next day which is why he withdrew his initial ok I will do it–interesting that they chose to drag him given he is a minority–he should sue for discrimination–when he came back on he was clearly dis oriented from what ever cause the cut—-he should also start a movement to boycott that plane
–when u buy a ticket and the company accepts–u have rights as well–this is why the first day of the unannounced Trump ban went down so badly

Quote from yesterdaysnews

The guy was a doctor apparently.

Take this with a grain of salt but according to TMZ this doctor has a very shady past (convictions related to painkillers)..[b].this absolutely does not justify his treatment at all, but what a freakn PR mess for all parties involved if true…[/b]

take a deep breath and re-read what I wrote. My point was that this guy’s reputation is going get damaged from this fiasco if this stuff is true.  If I was turning over a new leaf, I would not want my current co-workers and current patients to know of my past wrong-doings, would you?…I am however impressed how quickly you tied this situation in to race and Trump though, well done[8|]

[100574]

my brother feels they were not offering enough incentive–he says he would change for about 2,500.00 

[btomba_77]

Quote from sentinel lymph node

my brother feels they were not offering enough incentive–he says he would change for about 2,500.00 

 
First — once people are already in their seat the psychology changes. It increases the disruption and hence the price to incentivize  someone to move.
 
Second – Next flight being offered was nearly 24 hours later. That’s a long time and very disruptive.  Also increases the price.
 
 
My understanding is that UA field agents are not authorized to go above a certain level of compensation. (This was changed a few years ago when the company was bleeding cash due to over-generous employees offering too many $$$)
 
Also, it used to be not uncommon to be willing to purchase a ticket on a [i]different airline[/i] to get to the destination, sometimes even in first class, as an incentive.   I am not sure if this is still allowed or not.
 

[tdetlie_105]

Quote from dergon

Quote from sentinel lymph node

my brother feels they were not offering enough incentive–he says he would change for about 2,500.00 

First — once people are already in their seat the psychology changes. It increases the disruption and hence the price to incentivize  someone to move.

Second – Next flight being offered was nearly 24 hours later. That’s a long time and very disruptive.  Also increases the price.

My understanding is that UA field agents are not authorized to go above a certain level of compensation. (This was changed a few years ago when the company was bleeding cash due to over-generous employees offering too many $$$)

Also, it used to be not uncommon to be willing to purchase a ticket on a [i]different airline[/i] to get to the destination, sometimes even in first class, as an incentive.   I am not sure if this is still allowed or not.

 
Great points-not sure why they had to 1st board the plane before figuring out that they needed the seats
 
United needed to keep upping the pay-out, someone would have eventually volunteered 
 

[btomba_77]

Quote from jd4540

Great points-not sure why they had to 1st board the plane before figuring out that they needed the seats

United needed to keep upping the pay-out, someone would have eventually volunteered 

The gate agent f’ed up.  They should never have allowed the lat pax to board before getting the dead head crew on.
 
People would be mad by losing their ticket, sure.  But it almost certainly wouldn’t have escalated.

[100574]

just saw on facebook that one time delta offered a family 11,000 with accommodations –United was being cheap and they traumatized everyone on that plane to witness such an event

[kaldridgewv2211]

If what I read is correct the government caps monetary compensation at $1350 one way. You never know, if they didn’t hold out maybe the stock doesn’t go down today. Usually when I hit the skies it’s few and far between and I use my credit points to get a bump to business/first. Really though if someone was like we will move you to a different flight and here’s $1300 I’d probably be willing to sit a few hours at the airport.

Interesting also that most of the people taking photos/video were doing so illegally. As I understand DHS doesn’t allow.

[kayla.meyer_144]

What was it Ben Franklin said about giving away freedom for security & having neither?

[btomba_77]

Just in case any of you think the whole United IDB bloody asian doctor thing was bad … just a reminder:

[url=http://thehill.com/policy/finance/328387-gop-dodd-frank-rewrite-would-strip-consumer-bureau-power-give-trump-control-of]Republicans still want to kill the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau[/url]

[kayla.meyer_144]

Part of the problem, part of my problem is that we all seem 2nd class citizens compared to the wants and authority of corporations and the authorities. They don’t serve us even though we pay them for their services, we are subordinate to their wants and needs.

[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/11/opinion/united-airlines-is-not-alone.html]https://www.nytimes.com/2…ines-is-not-alone.html[/link]

[100574]

you sound like my brother–he goes immediately ok how much for the exchange/guaranteed accommodations in a hotel that the pilots stay at–he was like the incentive was not good enough
a more disturbing point other than letting the people board is the fact that their security was so poor that he got back on the plane–

Quote from DICOM_Dan

If what I read is correct the government caps monetary compensation at $1350 one way. You never know, if they didn’t hold out maybe the stock doesn’t go down today. Usually when I hit the skies it’s few and far between and I use my credit points to get a bump to business/first. Really though if someone was like we will move you to a different flight and here’s $1300 I’d probably be willing to sit a few hours at the airport.

Interesting also that most of the people taking photos/video were doing so illegally. As I understand DHS doesn’t allow.

[100574]

surprised to hear Christie’s input given the United/Sampson/Bridgegate affair 
 

[kaldridgewv2211]

Leave it to the Columbus Ohio PD to provide the entertainment.  The guy is in restraints with a cop on his back and dude comes blasting in with a kung fu head stomp.  I had to do a double take when I read this but it doesn’t say officer resigned, but rather reassigned.
 
“The officer has been temporarily reassigned.”
 
[link=http://nbc4i.com/2017/04/10/video-shows-columbus-police-officer-kicking-suspect-in-the-head/]http://nbc4i.com/2017/04/…g-suspect-in-the-head/[/link]
 
Lawyers are probably drooling over this one.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Obviously the officer feared for his life. After all the prep was a black male. He should thank the cop he was not shot to death.
 
If it goes to jury that will be the argument as the cop is not indicted.

[tdetlie_105]

Quote from sentinel lymph node

I was not refering to u–I was complaining of TMZ/United / media that always seem to blame the victim for something not related to the primary issue–no offense

Quote from jd4540

Quote from sentinel lymph node

ok so here we go with the Treyvon Martin pr defense–oh he had weed–when u pay for a ticket–the airline should not drag u from a plane like u are cattle–disgusting and just the beginning of the Trump police state
United overbooked and they need to OWN it

Quote from jd4540

Quote from sentinel lymph node

who had to work the next day which is why he withdrew his initial ok I will do it–interesting that they chose to drag him given he is a minority–he should sue for discrimination–when he came back on he was clearly dis oriented from what ever cause the cut—-he should also start a movement to boycott that plane
–when u buy a ticket and the company accepts–u have rights as well–this is why the first day of the unannounced Trump ban went down so badly

Quote from yesterdaysnews

The guy was a doctor apparently.

Take this with a grain of salt but according to TMZ this doctor has a very shady past (convictions related to painkillers)..[b].this absolutely does not justify his treatment at all, but what a freakn PR mess for all parties involved if true…[/b]

take a deep breath and re-read what I wrote. My point was that this guy’s reputation is going get damaged from this fiasco if this stuff is true.  If I was turning over a new leaf, I would not want my current co-workers and current patients to know of my past wrong-doings, would you?…I am however impressed how quickly you tied this situation in to race and Trump though, well done[8|]

Gotcha

[kayla.meyer_144]

Quote from jd4540

Quote from sentinel lymph node

ok so here we go with the Treyvon Martin pr defense–oh he had weed–when u pay for a ticket–the airline should not drag u from a plane like u are cattle–disgusting and just the beginning of the Trump police state
United overbooked and they need to OWN it

Quote from jd4540

Take this with a grain of salt but according to TMZ this doctor has a very shady past (convictions related to painkillers)..[b].this absolutely does not justify his treatment at all, but what a freakn PR mess for all parties involved if true…[/b]

take a deep breath and re-read what I wrote. My point was that this guy’s reputation is going get damaged from this fiasco if this stuff is true.  If I was turning over a new leaf, I would not want my current co-workers and current patients to know of my past wrong-doings, would you?…I am however impressed how quickly you tied this situation in to race and Trump though, well done[8|]

To back up SLN’s argument that too often these days character assassination is part of the package for those who have altercations with authorities. Always seems to be an irrelevant part of the story, whether “traces of marijuana found in the bloodstream of the victim-prepetrator” or a history of issues with the police. In a, “not saying he’s guilty but…,” this timely opinion piece considering this Christian religious holiday, Easter and what it signifies in the New Testament.
 
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2017/04/12/crucified-man-had-prior-run-in-with-authorities]https://www.washingtonpos…un-in-with-authorities[/link]
 

The gentleman arrested Thursday and tried before Pontius Pilate had a troubled background.
 
Born (possibly out of wedlock?) in a stable, this jobless thirty-something of Middle Eastern origin had had previous run-ins with local authorities for disturbing the peace, and had become increasingly associated with the members of a fringe religious group. He spent the majority of his time in the company of sex workers and criminals.
 
He had had prior run-ins with local authorities most notably, an incident of vandalism in a community center when he wrecked the tables of several licensed money-lenders and bird-sellers. He had used violent language, too, claiming that he could destroy a gathering place and rebuild it.
 
At the time of his arrest, he had not held a fixed residence for years. Instead, he led an itinerant lifestyle, staying at the homes of friends and advocating the redistribution of wealth.
 
He had come to the attention of the authorities more than once for his unauthorized distribution of food, disruptive public behavior, and participation in farcical aquatic ceremonies.
 
Some say that his brutal punishment at the hands of the state was out of proportion to and unrelated to any of these incidents in his record.

But after all, he was no angel.

 
After all…
 
Oh, and let’s also not forget, his parents were refugees illegally hiding from the authorities…
 

[100574]

as during the time of Christ–Holy week is a very troubling combustible week for all to get thru
Zealot has a very vivid description of the time–and the complex relationship between the Jewish people, their religious leaders, the romans and everyone else
let’s be kind to each other
PAX

Quote from Frumious

Quote from jd4540

Quote from sentinel lymph node

ok so here we go with the Treyvon Martin pr defense–oh he had weed–when u pay for a ticket–the airline should not drag u from a plane like u are cattle–disgusting and just the beginning of the Trump police state
United overbooked and they need to OWN it

Quote from jd4540

Take this with a grain of salt but according to TMZ this doctor has a very shady past (convictions related to painkillers)..[b].this absolutely does not justify his treatment at all, but what a freakn PR mess for all parties involved if true…[/b]

take a deep breath and re-read what I wrote. My point was that this guy’s reputation is going get damaged from this fiasco if this stuff is true.  If I was turning over a new leaf, I would not want my current co-workers and current patients to know of my past wrong-doings, would you?…I am however impressed how quickly you tied this situation in to race and Trump though, well done[8|]

To back up SLN’s argument that too often these days character assassination is part of the package for those who have altercations with authorities. Always seems to be an irrelevant part of the story, whether “traces of marijuana found in the bloodstream of the victim-prepetrator” or a history of issues with the police. In a, “not saying he’s guilty but…,” this timely opinion piece considering this Christian religious holiday, Easter and what it signifies in the New Testament.

[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2017/04/12/crucified-man-had-prior-run-in-with-authorities]https://www.washingtonpos…un-in-with-authorities[/link]

The gentleman arrested Thursday and tried before Pontius Pilate had a troubled background.

Born (possibly out of wedlock?) in a stable, this jobless thirty-something of Middle Eastern origin had had previous run-ins with local authorities for disturbing the peace, and had become increasingly associated with the members of a fringe religious group. He spent the majority of his time in the company of sex workers and criminals.

He had had prior run-ins with local authorities most notably, an incident of vandalism in a community center when he wrecked the tables of several licensed money-lenders and bird-sellers. He had used violent language, too, claiming that he could destroy a gathering place and rebuild it.

At the time of his arrest, he had not held a fixed residence for years. Instead, he led an itinerant lifestyle, staying at the homes of friends and advocating the redistribution of wealth.

He had come to the attention of the authorities more than once for his unauthorized distribution of food, disruptive public behavior, and participation in farcical aquatic ceremonies.

Some say that his brutal punishment at the hands of the state was out of proportion to and unrelated to any of these incidents in his record.

But after all, he was no angel.

After all…

Oh, and let’s also not forget, his parents were refugees illegally hiding from the authorities…

[100574]

the TMZ article aids in his defense because he states he has to get to work the next day and apparently due to board sanctions he can only work 1 day per week–so if he did not show up then the board could come in and say he was not compliant–he could not give up that seat–he should sue

Quote from jd4540

Quote from sentinel lymph node

who had to work the next day which is why he withdrew his initial ok I will do it–interesting that they chose to drag him given he is a minority–he should sue for discrimination–when he came back on he was clearly dis oriented from what ever cause the cut—-he should also start a movement to boycott that plane
–when u buy a ticket and the company accepts–u have rights as well–this is why the first day of the unannounced Trump ban went down so badly

Quote from yesterdaysnews

The guy was a doctor apparently.

Take this with a grain of salt but according to TMZ this doctor has a very shady past (convictions related to painkillers)…this absolutely does not justify his treatment at all, but what a freakn PR mess for all parties involved if true…

[kaldridgewv2211]

Quote from dergon

 I’d be skeptical of that legal reasoning. There is long and extensive precedent giving airlines latitude in removing passengers even post-boarding. For instance, weight issues on a smaller plane, or safety concerns when a seat or row of seats is discovered to be unsafe after the boarding process… or even removing obese passengers who do not fit into a single seat.

Little long but a good read on the legal aspect.  This reading makes United look dead wrong.
 
[link=http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/04/united-passenger-removal-reporting-management-fail.html]http://www.nakedcapitalis…g-management-fail.html[/link]
 
It is telling, in not a good way, that Naked Capitalism reader Uahsenaa [link=http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/04/200pm-water-cooler-4112017.html#comment-2798757]found a better discussion of the legal issues[/link] on [link=https://np.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/64m8lg/why_is_rvideos_just_filled_with_united_related/dg3xvja/?context=3]Reddit[/link] than Lambert and I have yet to see in the media and the blogosphere (including from sites that profess to be knowledgeable about aviation):
[blockquote] Lawyer here. This myth that passengers dont have rights needs to go away, ASAP. You are dead wrong when saying that United legally kicked him off the plane.
First of all, its airline spin to call this an overbooking. The statutory provision granting them the ability to deny boarding is about OVERSALES, specifically defines as booking more reserved confirmed seats than there are available. This is not what happened. They did not overbook the flight; they had a fully booked flight, and not only did everyone already have a reserved confirmed seat, they were all sitting in them. The law allowing them to denying boarding in the event of an oversale does not apply.
Even if it did apply, the law is unambiguously clear that airlines have to give preference to everyone with reserved confirmed seats when choosing to involuntarily deny boarding. They have to always choose the solution that will affect the least amount of reserved confirmed seats. This rule is straightforward, and United makes very clear in their own contract of carriage that employees of their own or of other carriers may be denied boarding without compensation because they do not have reserved confirmed seats. On its face, its clear that what they did was illegal they gave preference to their employees over people who had reserved confirmed seats, in violation of 14 CFR 250.2a.
Furthermore, even if you try and twist this into a legal application of 250.2a and say that United had the right to deny him boarding in the event of an overbooking; they did NOT have the right to kick him off the plane. Their contract of carriage highlights there is a complete difference in rights after youve boarded and sat on the plane, and Rule 21 goes over the specific scenarios where you could get kicked off. NONE of them apply here. He did absolutely nothing wrong and shouldnt have been targeted. Hes going to leave with a hefty settlement after this fiasco.
[/blockquote] His analysis checks out. 14 CFR 250.2a [link=https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/faa_regulations/]is an FAA regulation[/link]. Here is what is says [link=https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/250.2a]per a Cornell law school site[/link], which courteously supplies links to definitions of key terms:
[blockquote] § 250.2a Policy regarding denied boarding.
In the event of an oversold flight, every [link=https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=07484bf83941ae23d154372db36c5724&term_occur=1&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:II:Subchapter:A:Part:250:250.2a]carrier[/link] shall ensure that the smallest practicable number of persons holding [link=https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=6c742050b195b869ca941aa09eb59560&term_occur=1&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:II:Subchapter:A:Part:250:250.2a]confirmed reserved space[/link] on that flight are denied boarding involuntarily.
[/blockquote] So the lawyer who popped up on Reddit looks to be on solid ground in saying it was an FAA violation to try to kick off a confirmed passenger in favor of crew.
 

[kaldridgewv2211]

Similar incident from Georgia. Cop comes running in and throws a stomp on someone who’s laying face down handcuffed.

[link=http://www.ajc.com/news/breaking-news/fired-gwinnett-officers-had-history-together-and-with-suspect/DYb4O5z3OS8lzEnwniSIZP/]http://www.ajc.com/news/b…Yb4O5z3OS8lzEnwniSIZP/[/link]

[julie.young_645]

[link=http://www.newsweek.com/why-united-were-legally-wrong-deplane-dr-dao-583535]http://www.newsweek.com/w…-deplane-dr-dao-583535[/link]
 
YUUUUGE difference between denying boarding and deplaning. 

[kaldridgewv2211]

The cop that shot Walter Scott pleads guilty down in your neck of the woods.
 
This Texas one ain’t looking to hot either.  Apparently the body cam footage of the officer that shot this kid with a rifle actually shows them driving away.  None of them were armed and I’m not really sure why he shot the passenger.  If you were in fear from the car wouldn’t it be the driver.
 
[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/01/us/dallas-police-teen-shooting.html?_r=0]https://www.nytimes.com/2…een-shooting.html?_r=0[/link]
 
The vehicle then pulled forward as the officer continued to approach the vehicle giving verbal commands. The vehicle continued the main roadway driving away from the officer as an officer shot into the vehicle striking the passenger,

[kaldridgewv2211]

I thought the video made this lady look really bad for shooting this guy.  Guess the jury did not.
 
 
[link=http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/jury-acquits-tulsa-officer-shooting-death-terence-crutcher-n761206]http://www.nbcnews.com/ne…rence-crutcher-n761206[/link]

[kayla.meyer_144]

The victim was only a black male so of course he was guilty. & if not exactly guilty, understandable why the policewoman would think he was.
 
So the verdicts go in USA, videos notwithstanding.

[ruszja]

Just to rub it in, a jury in Ramsey County found officer Jeronimo Yanez not guilty of manslaughter in the shooting of Philandro Castille.
That is the one case I expected to go in the prosecutions direction. The DA is going to release the dash-cam footage of the shooting, so maybe we’ll learn a bit more about what happened leading up to the incident.
 

[kaldridgewv2211]

Problem is the guy did have a gun on him and was reaching into his pants or something like that for his license. So even though we have the passengers dramatic video it doesn’t really show what Castillo was doing.

I have a CCW license. You go to the class to get it. Two things they hammer down. 1) you tell them you a CCW and you have a weapon. 2) your hands stay up in view on the wheel and you ask them what they want you to do.

[ruszja]

Quote from DICOM_Dan

I have a CCW license. You go to the class to get it. Two things they hammer down. 1) you tell them you a CCW and you have a weapon. 2) your hands stay up in view on the wheel and you ask them what they want you to do.

Life is much harder if you are high.

[kayla.meyer_144]

The one question I have is why it is that it’s almost always the case that black males are making stupid fatal mistakes & so few white males?

[ruszja]

Quote from Frumious

The one question I have is why it is that it’s almost always the case that black males are making stupid fatal mistakes & so few white males?

 
About twice as many whites as blacks get shot by the police.

[kayla.meyer_144]

That is a misleading statement. For example, blacks make up about 12% of the population I believe to whites of around 64%. Adjust the “twice as many” to that & if shows a higher death rate for blacks than white.

& then there are cases like Sean Bell & others where there seems zero reason for the shooting or Eric Garner where there was a fatality without a shooting.

There are actually 2 questions involved, racial disparity in police to civilian killings and the question of the police over use of force in general against unarmed civilians.

[ruszja]

Quote from Frumious

That is a misleading statement. For example, blacks make up about 12% of the population I believe to whites of around 64%. Adjust the “twice as many” to that & if shows a higher death rate for blacks than white.

 
You said ‘almost always’, and that’s demonstrably false.
 
The higher rate relative to the population is sadly also a reflection of a higher rate of engagement with the criminal justice system overall, be it as victim or perpetrator.
 

There are actually 2 questions involved, racial disparity in police to civilian killings and the question of the police over use of force in general against unarmed civilians.

 
A smart Harvard guy by the name of Roland Fryer has actually looked at this and found that after you correct for the factors that surround police/civilian encounters, there is no substantial racial divide.
 
The great majority of police killings of civilians involves ‘civilians’ who are actively shooting at the police at the time of their demise. Your odds of getting shot by the police go drastically down if you dont assault police officers, dont commit crimes.

[kaldridgewv2211]

Just googled and they also require a certificate issued by a licensed firearms trainer. So again I’d question that his actions got himself shot. assuming the guy was driving his own car the cops know he’s got a permit just by running the license plate.

[ruszja]

Quote from DICOM_Dan

Just googled and they also require a certificate issued by a licensed firearms trainer. So again I’d question that his actions got himself shot. assuming the guy was driving his own car the cops know he’s got a permit just by running the license plate.

Castille was a slow learner. He had been pulled over 52 times yet he still drove around with a broken taillight. I wouldn’t bank on him having the procedure for a ‘traffic stop while legally armed’ down. Apparently he also didn’t know that you have to stay away from the dummyweed while armed’.

I don’t think Yanez should have unloaded on him, but there is a difference between an error (which I believe this was) and criminal conduct.

[tdetlie_105]

Quote from fw

Quote from DICOM_Dan

Just googled and they also require a certificate issued by a licensed firearms trainer. So again I’d question that his actions got himself shot. assuming the guy was driving his own car the cops know he’s got a permit just by running the license plate.

Castille was a slow learner. [b]He had been pulled over 52 times yet he still drove around with a broken taillight.[/b] I wouldn’t bank on him having the procedure for a ‘traffic stop while legally armed’ down. Apparently he also didn’t know that you have to stay away from the dummyweed while armed’.

I don’t think Yanez should have unloaded on him, but there is a difference between an error (which I believe this was) and criminal conduct.

 
Pulled over for broken headlight when I was 21 or 22, got that fixed the next day or so. Can’t imagine 10/20/30 or 50 times…on a side note, can’t we figure out an effective non-deadly means of immobilizing a suspect?

[alyaa.rifaie_129]

We do know the easiest way. It is called listening to and following the officers instructions.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Quote from fw

Quote from Frumious

That is a misleading statement. For example, blacks make up about 12% of the population I believe to whites of around 64%. Adjust the “twice as many” to that & if shows a higher death rate for blacks than white.

You said ‘almost always’, and that’s demonstrably false.

The higher rate relative to the population is sadly also a reflection of a higher rate of engagement with the criminal justice system overall, be it as victim or perpetrator.

There are actually 2 questions involved, racial disparity in police to civilian killings and the question of the police over use of force in general against unarmed civilians.

A smart Harvard guy by the name of Roland Fryer has actually looked at this and found that after you correct for the factors that surround police/civilian encounters, there is no substantial racial divide.

The great majority of police killings of civilians involves ‘civilians’ who are actively shooting at the police at the time of their demise. Your odds of getting shot by the police go drastically down if you dont assault police officers, dont commit crimes.

Fun with numbers. But the conclusion is that you do agree then that black people are more likely to be killed by police than whites and that is exactly what I said & where you disagreed.
 
Regardless of diverting statements about assaulting police, these black male victims were doing anything but engaging in a crime or assaulting the police even while the police were using that as the excuse that they “felt” endangered as a post-death excuse for their actions. So deaths like Sean Bell’s or Eric Garner’s or Officer Michael Brelo combing on the roof of the car shooting into the car killing a couple. In no case were in fact, the police officers in danger.
 
You are just playing with numbers and other diversions to justify a bias.

[Unknown Member]

Quote from Frumious

The one question I have is why it is that it’s almost always the case that black males are making stupid fatal mistakes & so few white males?

[link=http://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Bell-Curve/Richard-J-Herrnstein/9780684824291]http://www.simonandschust…rrnstein/9780684824291[/link]

[kayla.meyer_144]

Quote from Jan the Third

Quote from Frumious

The one question I have is why it is that it’s almost always the case that black males are making stupid fatal mistakes & so few white males?

[link=http://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Bell-Curve/Richard-J-Herrnstein/9780684824291]http://www.simonandschust…rrnstein/9780684824291[/link]

 
Was waiting for someone to post this “study.” You didn’t disappoint. Let’s not talk about the irish like that, it’s not their fault.
 
Did you also study phrenology?
 
Nothing like scapegoating minorities. You also know about the world-wide conspiracies of “dishonest” races who not-so-secretly run governments and banks I presume.
 
Here is a book you missed:
 
[link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mismeasure_of_Man]https://en.wikipedia.org/.ki/The_Mismeasure_of_Man[/link]
 
 

[kayla.meyer_144]

 
 
[link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism[/link]
[b][/b]

[b]Scientific racism[/b] (sometimes [b]race biology[/b] or [b]racial biology[/b][link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism#cite_note-1][1][/link] or [b]pseudoscientific racism[/b]) is the [link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoscience]pseudoscientific[/link] study of techniques and hypotheses in order to support or justify the belief in [link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism]racism[/link], racial inferiority, or [link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_superiority]racial superiority[/link];[link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism#cite_note-2][2][/link][link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism#cite_note-SciRac_Gould-3][3][/link][link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism#cite_note-SciRac_CSI-4][4][/link] alternatively, it is the practice of classifying[link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism#cite_note-CSfrozaGPL-5][5][/link]individuals of different [link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenotype]phenotypes[/link] or [link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genotype]genotype[/link] into discrete [link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(classification_of_humans)]races[/link]. Historically it received credence in the scientific community, but is no longer considered scientific.[link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism#cite_note-SciRac_Gould-3][3][/link][link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism#cite_note-SciRac_CSI-4][4][/link]
 
Scientific racism employs [link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropology]anthropology[/link] (notably [link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_anthropology]physical anthropology[/link]), [link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropometry]anthropometry[/link], [link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craniometry]craniometry[/link], and other disciplines or pseudo-disciplines, in proposing anthropological [link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typology_(anthropology)]typologies[/link] supporting the [link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_definitions_of_race]classification of human populations[/link] into physically discrete human races, that might be asserted to be superior or inferior. Scientific racism was common during the period from [link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/17th_century]1600s[/link] to the end of [link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I]World War I[/link]. Since the second half of 20th century, scientific racism has been criticized as obsolete and discredited, yet historically has persistently been used to support or validate [link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism]racist[/link]world-views, based upon belief in the existence and significance of racial categories and a hierarchy of superior and inferior races.[link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism#cite_note-6][6][/link]
 
After the end of [link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II]World War II[/link], scientific racism in theory and action was formally denounced, especially in [link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNESCO]UNESCO[/link]’s early [link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-racism#Scientific_anti-racism]antiracist[/link] statement “[link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Race_Question]The Race Question[/link]” (1950): “The biological fact of race and the myth of ‘race’ should be distinguished. For all practical social purposes ‘race’ is not so much a biological phenomenon as a social myth. The myth of ‘race’ has created an enormous amount of human and social damage. In recent years, it has taken a heavy toll in human lives, and caused untold suffering”.[link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism#cite_note-7][7][/link] Such “biological fact” is no longer considered to exist as developments in [link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolutionary_genetics]human evolutionary genetics[/link] showed that human genetic differences are nearly totally gradual.[link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism#cite_note-CSfrozaGPL-5][5][/link]
 
[b]The term “scientific racism” is generally used pejoratively as applied to more modern theories, as in [i][link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve]The Bell Curve[/link][/i] (1994). Critics argue that such works postulate racist conclusions unsupported by available evidence. Publications such as the [i][link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mankind_Quarterly]Mankind Quarterly[/link][/i], founded explicitly as a “race-conscious” journal, are generally regarded as platforms of scientific racism for publishing articles on fringe interpretations of [link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution]human evolution[/link], [link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_(trait)]intelligence[/link], [link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnography]ethnography[/link], [link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language]language[/link], [link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology]mythology[/link], [link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeology]archaeology[/link], and race subjects. [/b]

 
 

[100574]

U are applying that to the intelligence of the cop–

Quote from Jan the Third

Quote from Frumious

The one question I have is why it is that it’s almost always the case that black males are making stupid fatal mistakes & so few white males?

[link=http://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Bell-Curve/Richard-J-Herrnstein/9780684824291]http://www.simonandschust…rrnstein/9780684824291[/link]

[ruszja]

Quote from DICOM_Dan

Problem is the guy did have a gun on him and was reaching into his pants or something like that for his license. So even though we have the passengers dramatic video it doesn’t really show what Castillo was doing.

I have a CCW license. You go to the class to get it. Two things they hammer down. 1) you tell them you a CCW and you have a weapon. 2) your hands stay up in view on the wheel and you ask them what they want you to do.

Dash cam video is out. We now know why the DA kept it hidden from the public. Makes the entire prosecution look foolish.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Sh1te, the officer panicked. Bet his pants had a load in it & he voided too. How did this guy get to be a cop? 

Low standards. 

Shoot first then figure out the alibi later.
 
 
 

[kayla.meyer_144]

Do minorities have 2nd Amendment rights? Or are they exempt from Constitutional rights because of their color? Yes, obey the police but what happens if the police kill you before you even have time to respond and obey?  
   
Where is the NRA for minority gun owners? Or does the NRA not support minorities owning guns except for posturing but not really.  
   
[link=https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/06/the-continued-erosion-of-the-african-american-right-to-bear-arms/531093/]https://www.theatlantic.c…t-to-bear-arms/531093/[/link] 
   

  
Philando Castiles shooting death, at the hands of a police officer in Falcon Heights, Minnesota, one year ago, was numbingly similar to a string of other killings of black men by police. But Castiles shooting was notably different in one crucial respect: Castile was licensed to carry a gun. He carefully informed Officer Jeronimo Yanezexceeding his legal requirements under Minnesota law, though following the advice some gun-rights advocates offer for concealed carriers when stopped by police. [b]And yet Yanez almost instantly shot him.[/b] That aspect made the case a central focus not just for Black Lives Matter activists, but for some gun owners, too.  
   
[link=https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/07/alton-sterling-philando-castile-2nd-amendment-guns/490301/]As I wrote at the time[/link], Castiles killing raised the question of whether African Americans truly have a right to bear arms in practice. Even setting aside the questionable grounds under which Yanez had pulled Castile over (a malfunctioning taillight is a classic pretextual stop police use to question black drivers), Castile had done everything right.  
   
Theres a long history of African Americans attempting to arm themselves to defend against state violence. During the post-Civil War period, many blacks armed themselves to protect against white supremacist violence. Southern governments responded by attempting to strip the right to bear arms. A century later, the Black Panthers made a habit of openly carrying guns as a way of displaying to racist police officers in Oakland that African Americans couldnt be pushed around. In response, the California legislature passed a ban on open carry, and Governor Ronald Reagan signed it into law.  
 
as Jennifer Carlson, a sociologist at the University of Arizona, wrote in her 2015 book [link=https://jdawncarlson.com/book/][i]Citizen-Protectors[/i][/link]: [b]My fieldwork shows that law-abiding men of color are … more likely to be harassed simply for choosing to carry a gun. They must navigate the widespread presumptions that they are criminals and that their guns are illegally possessed or carried[/b].

  
 
 

[ruszja]

Some people are obviously resistant to facts.

[100574]

agree–it stinks–

Quote from Frumious

Do minorities have 2nd Amendment rights? Or are they exempt from Constitutional rights because of their color? Yes, obey the police but what happens if the police kill you before you even have time to respond and obey?  
  
Where is the NRA for minority gun owners? Or does the NRA not support minorities owning guns except for posturing but not really.  
  
[link=https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/06/the-continued-erosion-of-the-african-american-right-to-bear-arms/531093/]https://www.theatlantic.c…t-to-bear-arms/531093/[/link] 
  

  
Philando Castiles shooting death, at the hands of a police officer in Falcon Heights, Minnesota, one year ago, was numbingly similar to a string of other killings of black men by police. But Castiles shooting was notably different in one crucial respect: Castile was licensed to carry a gun. He carefully informed Officer Jeronimo Yanezexceeding his legal requirements under Minnesota law, though following the advice some gun-rights advocates offer for concealed carriers when stopped by police. [b]And yet Yanez almost instantly shot him.[/b] That aspect made the case a central focus not just for Black Lives Matter activists, but for some gun owners, too.  
  
[link=https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/07/alton-sterling-philando-castile-2nd-amendment-guns/490301/]As I wrote at the time[/link], Castiles killing raised the question of whether African Americans truly have a right to bear arms in practice. Even setting aside the questionable grounds under which Yanez had pulled Castile over (a malfunctioning taillight is a classic pretextual stop police use to question black drivers), Castile had done everything right.  
  
Theres a long history of African Americans attempting to arm themselves to defend against state violence. During the post-Civil War period, many blacks armed themselves to protect against white supremacist violence. Southern governments responded by attempting to strip the right to bear arms. A century later, the Black Panthers made a habit of openly carrying guns as a way of displaying to racist police officers in Oakland that African Americans couldnt be pushed around. In response, the California legislature passed a ban on open carry, and Governor Ronald Reagan signed it into law.  

as Jennifer Carlson, a sociologist at the University of Arizona, wrote in her 2015 book [link=https://jdawncarlson.com/book/][i]Citizen-Protectors[/i][/link]: [b]My fieldwork shows that law-abiding men of color are … more likely to be harassed simply for choosing to carry a gun. They must navigate the widespread presumptions that they are criminals and that their guns are illegally possessed or carried[/b].

  

[kayla.meyer_144]

To the police, I guess “they all look alike?” Who can tell the difference?
 
Another example of “resisting arrest” and not obeying orders from the police.
 
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/07/12/i-told-him-i-cant-breathe-police-punch-teen-girl-after-mistaking-her-for-black-male-suspect]https://www.washingtonpos…for-black-male-suspect[/link]
 

On the day Tatyana Hargrove rode her bike to try to buy her dad a Fathers Day gift, temperatures in Bakersfield, Calif., had reached triple digits, so she stopped on the way home to take a drink of water in the shade.
 
The 19-year-old girl turned around at the intersection where she had paused and noticed three police cars. One of the officers, she said, had already drawn his gun.
 
What followed, according to both Hargrove and police, was a case of mistaken identity and an altercation in which police punched Hargrove in the mouth, unleashed a police K-9 dog on her and arrested her. Though the incident took place June 18, it gained wider attention this week after the Bakersfield chapter of the NAACP shared a [link=https://www.facebook.com/NAACP-Bakersfield-786247818090483/]video of Hargroves account[/link] on its Facebook page that garnered millions of views.
 
On the day police stopped Hargrove, officers had been looking for a suspect  described as a 25- to 30-year-old, bald black man standing 5-foot-10 and weighing about 170 pounds who had threatened several people with a machete at a nearby grocery store, [link=https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3893480-Tatyana-Hargrove-17-133937.html]according to a police report[/link].
 
She appeared to be a male and matched the description of the suspect that had brandished the machete and was also within the same complex the suspect had fled to, Christopher Moore, the arresting officer, wrote in his report.
 
But Hargrove is none of those things.
 
For starters, she is female. She stands 5-foot-2 and weighs 115 pounds soaking wet, according to her father
 
According to the [link=https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/bakersfield.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/3/e9/3e9c0dda-9f06-5fc1-9e79-05168086321c/596429e3139cd.pdf.pdf]police report[/link], Hargrove was arrested for resisting or delaying an officer and aggravated assault on an officer. 
 
In the police report, Moore wrote that Hargrove had spun into one of the officers with her left shoulder, causing him to fall backward, and then quickly maneuvered her body to get back on top of him after the officer punched her.
 
At this time I was forced to quickly consider the following; [Hargrove] matched the description of the suspect that had brandished a machete, her backpack was within her arms reach and the main compartment was unzipped allowing her immediate access to the machete, Moore wrote. After weighing whether he could use his Taser or baton on Hargrove, Moore wrote that he decided to unleash the police K-9, Hamer.
 
A search of her backpack revealed no weapons, the report stated.

 
 
 

[ruszja]

That’s a new one. Black cop shoots white woman:
 
[link=http://kstp.com/news/minneapolis-police-officer-involved-shooting/4543640/]http://kstp.com/news/minn…lved-shooting/4543640/[/link]
 
This of course makes the hypocrites heads explode on how to react. Oh the dilemma. So far, they stick with a firm double standard and make great concerned faces about this ‘tragedy’.

[kayla.meyer_144]

I suppose it is difficult for you to dismiss this as just another justified killing at the hands of police to just another gangster thug wearing pajamas who got what they deserved.
 
Interesting that there has been no explanation at all about how it happened. She disobeyed police orders? They felt threatened by a woman yoga instructor in pajamas? She was accidentally shot multiple times? Why? And from the car’s passenger seat, so across the driver as she was standing by the driver’s window. But shot multiple times?
 
Not even a hint of an explanation so far.

[ruszja]

Quote from Frumious

I suppose it is difficult for you to dismiss this as just another justified killing at the hands of police to just another gangster thug wearing pajamas who got what they deserved.

Interesting that there has been no explanation at all about how it happened. She disobeyed police orders? They felt threatened by a woman yoga instructor in pajamas? She was accidentally shot multiple times? Why? And from the car’s passenger seat, so across the driver as she was standing by the driver’s window. But shot multiple times?

Not even a hint of an explanation so far.

Yet no demonstrations at City Hall, no pundits on TV talking about the epidemic of Yoga instructor killings. Nothing.

We’ll see whether she was simply a victim of a social experiment.

[kayla.meyer_144]

No, pundits and news media is talking about the epidemic of police killings to unarmed victims. And “social experiment?” Are you totally off the rails? Someone is dead for no good reason & your explanation is a “social experiment?”

[kaldridgewv2211]

not enough details available on this one.  Minneapolis police are supposed to be wearing body cams so why were they not on.  No squad car camera either.  I hate when they give this ‘early stages of investigation’ BS.  What was the cop shooting at?  Investigation over.

[ruszja]

Quote from DICOM_Dan

not enough details available on this one.  Minneapolis police are supposed to be wearing body cams so why were they not on.  No squad car camera either.  I hate when they give this ‘early stages of investigation’ BS.  What was the cop shooting at?  Investigation over.

Exactly. Too early to tell.

So far, this is very troubling. No way of telling what went through his mind.

But that didn’t stop the yellow press from whipping up the masses in prior use of force incidents.

[100574]

this should be effective immediately–if body cams are off which is against administrative policy then officers should be put on leave for 3 months without pay( first offense);- 2nd offense( 6 months);- 3rd offense( dismissal)

Quote from fw

Quote from DICOM_Dan

not enough details available on this one.  Minneapolis police are supposed to be wearing body cams so why were they not on.  No squad car camera either.  I hate when they give this ‘early stages of investigation’ BS.  What was the cop shooting at?  Investigation over.

Exactly. Too early to tell.

So far, this is very troubling. No way of telling what went through his mind.

But that didn’t stop the yellow press from whipping up the masses in prior use of force incidents.

[ruszja]

Quote from sentinel lymph node

this should be effective immediately–if body cams are off which is against administrative policy then officers should be put on leave for 3 months without pay( first offense);- 2nd offense( 6 months);- 3rd offense( dismissal)

If life was that simple.

In this case, the lady was supposedly trying to report a suspected sexual assault. Under many department camera protocols, that would be a situation where cameras are to be turned off.

I am all for full shift monitoring with vest or goggle cams. Keeps everyone honest. So far, for any one instance of misconduct on a body cam, we can see 100 instances of aggravated a$$hattery by ‘citizens’.
Local sheriff’s dept went to body cams 3 years ago. So far, zero misconduct cases, but footage from two separate incidents where deputies had to climb into burning cars cars to drag out the occupants. Ran into the sheriff the other day at Starbucks. I suggested to him to switch to Nomex pants and cotton shirts for the next procurement contract (and bigger fire extinguishers). His comment was something along the lines of the recent incidents requiring the whole fire-engine.

[ruszja]

Quote from Frumious

No, pundits and news media is talking about the epidemic of police killings to unarmed victims. And “social experiment?” Are you totally off the rails? Someone is dead for no good reason & your explanation is a “social experiment?”

Once everything is sorted out, they will find that the guy was hired for being somali, not for his high scores on the police exam or great fitness for the job during the psychological testing. They will find that anyone who spoke up about issues with him was shushed because command and the mayor needed a somali officer on the force.

The social experiment of Minneapolis is the hiring of city employees based on how they look and who they sleep with, not on competence. The city had to demote their lesbian fire chief because of shenanigans involving her girlfriend, one of the departments captains.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Quote from fw

Once everything is sorted out, they will find that the guy was hired for being somali, not for his high scores on the police exam or great fitness for the job during the psychological testing. They will find that anyone who spoke up about issues with him was shushed because command and the mayor needed a somali officer on the force.

The social experiment of Minneapolis is the hiring of city employees based on how they look and who they sleep with, not on competence. The city had to demote their lesbian fire chief because of shenanigans involving her girlfriend, one of the departments captains.

Oh, in other words, “stupid black guy as cop.” So if they are not criminals they are just too dumb and therefore dangerous anyway.
 
Nice world view. Maybe a large part of the problem is police attitudes and training. The only right thing you have is at this point in time there is no information. Which is probably an indication of the police planning damage control.
 
 

[ruszja]

Quote from Frumious

Oh, in other words, “stupid black guy as cop.” So if they are not criminals they are just too dumb and therefore dangerous anyway.

Your racism is really sad. This is not an issue of skin color. MPD has been trying to hire first generation somalis since 2004 and the problems they encountered are no secret in law enforcement circles.

[100574]

the sad Bannonites–always blame other–when their entire country was built by other
I guess the Indian guy paralyze by police in Alabama was a failed social experiment

Quote from fw

Quote from Frumious

No, pundits and news media is talking about the epidemic of police killings to unarmed victims. And “social experiment?” Are you totally off the rails? Someone is dead for no good reason & your explanation is a “social experiment?”

Once everything is sorted out, they will find that the guy was hired for being somali, not for his high scores on the police exam or great fitness for the job during the psychological testing. They will find that anyone who spoke up about issues with him was shushed because command and the mayor needed a somali officer on the force.

The social experiment of Minneapolis is the hiring of city employees based on how they look and who they sleep with, not on competence. The city had to demote their lesbian fire chief because of shenanigans involving her girlfriend, one of the departments captains.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Quote from fw

Once everything is sorted out, they will find that the guy was hired for being somali, not for his high scores on the police exam or great fitness for the job during the psychological testing. 

The social experiment of Minneapolis is the hiring of city employees based on how they look and who they sleep with, not on competence. 

The “Somali” hired in spite of his incompetence & failure if psychological testing only because of his “looks,” in a “social experiment?”
 
Your words.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Now she was killed because the police heard a loud noise. So she was shot.
 
Another armed & dangerous policeman who shoots first.
 
Training. They respond they way they were trained to respond?

[ruszja]

Quote from Frumious

Training. They respond they way they were trained to respond?

Yup. We don’t have a racism problem in the police. We have a training and experience problem.
How is a rookie in the car with another rookie rather than a field training officer ?

(the uncomfortable answer is going to be that Noor with his 3 existing citizen complaints was a loose cannon and all the senior patrol officers tried to stay clear of him in fear of being labeled ‘racist’ by command if they lodged complaints…..)

[kaldridgewv2211]

This whole incident is strange.  It’s a terrible outcome but it’s comically bad if this guy just fired off a shot after being startled by noise

[kayla.meyer_144]

Quote from fw

Quote from Frumious

Training. They respond they way they were trained to respond?

Yup. We don’t have a racism problem in the police. We have a training and experience problem.
How is a rookie in the car with another rookie rather than a field training officer ?

(the uncomfortable answer is going to be that Noor with his 3 existing citizen complaints was a loose cannon and all the senior patrol officers tried to stay clear of him in fear of being labeled ‘racist’ by command if they lodged complaints…..)

How much BS is there in your statements.
 
How many white officers have multiple citizen complaints & are never charged or disciplined? Senior officers afraid of being labeled as race traitors? How many white officers kill unarmed civilians & never get charged with anything or in the rare instances of getting charged get acquitted?
 
Mythology in the making. Dog whistle racism.
 
And absolutely training is a problem with police. And police who panic at the first opportunity.
 
 

[ruszja]

Quote from Frumious

How many white officers have multiple citizen complaints & are never charged or disciplined?

 
And most officers make it through their career without a single complaint. He is 2 years in with 1 resolved complaint, 2 unresolved complaints and what looks like one major fuckup.
 

Senior officers afraid of being labeled as race traitors?

 
Where do you get ‘race traitors’ from ? The somalis are a protected class within MPD. If one of them was a fluke, nobody would dare to kick it up the chain of command. The original idea when they were hired was for them to patrol in Cedar Riverside. Pretty soon the somalis realized that it was a bad beat because their countrymen didn’t respect them and they put their life on the line if they acted against the somali gangs.
 

How many white officers kill unarmed civilians & never get charged with anything or in the rare instances of getting charged get acquitted?

 
What does one have to do with the other. I hope this gets investigated without deference to the wishes of the department leadership and if the officer was found to have acted unreasonably, I want him referred to either grand jury or a direct indictment.
 

And absolutely training is a problem with police. And police who panic at the first opportunity.

 
That’s a problem if you hire off the street wit the intent to create a particular color and gender mix in your force.. Maybe go back and hire combat veterans out of the military who have not only firearms experience but also experience to act under pressure. If you hire off the street and just cram your recruits through the academy, you have no way of judging how they are going to act under fire.
In Minnesota, a common pathway in law enforcement is to hire on with a small municipal or county department first and to apply to successively larger agencies as you build experience. In the end, you may work with one of the Metro area agencies or the state patrol.  There is a system to it. You cut your teeth dealing with the village drunks at the ‘brass rail’ and you learn how to deal with people before you get thrown into high risk situations like traffic stops or city policing. If you hire off the street, you may end up with someone who was selling solar roofs just 9 months ago.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Yes, most police officers go through their careers with no complaints. True for most all of us, no? That’s the way it should be. But only a few bad ones who aren’t pruned can make the rest look bad. True for physicians and police and most other jobs.
 
All this “protected” stuff is BS. Management’s job is to do their job. If they can’t and don’t they should leave. Or be fired. A bad actor is a bad actor, color or “protected” is a lame excuse. It’s documentation that counts. Management not doing their job is just an excuse for getting paid just to show up.
 
“Hiring off the street?” There are a lot of qualified people of color who are hired merely because they are qualified. You infer that someone of color might not be as qualified. And trying to hire to have the force reflect the community is a fair concern.

[ruszja]

Quote from Frumious

“Hiring off the street?” There are a lot of qualified people of color who are hired merely because they are qualified. You infer that someone of color might not be as qualified.

 
 ‘Off the street’ means someone without prior law enforcement or military experience who has to attend a full academy. Someone who comes with an active POST license doesn’t have to do a full academy and only needs the training specific to the agency.
Has nothing to do with race.
 

And trying to hire to have the force reflect the community is a fair concern.

 
As long as you stick to the same hiring standards and have a race neutral hiring process, nothing wrong with a diverse police force.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Oops. Turned the camera on but it recorded the wrong thing, police planting drug evidence.
 
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/baltimore-police-investigate-officers-after-one-seen-putting-bag-of-drugs-at-scene/2017/07/19/148986c2-6ca5-11e7-9c15-177740635e83_story.html]https://www.washingtonpos…77740635e83_story.html[/link]

[kayla.meyer_144]

Sometimes I wonder if the police have an anti-social attitude, YOU are the enemy, YOU are dangerous, YOU MUST OBEY ORDERS given by the police regardless of anything. Or maybe they think they are in Iraq or Afghanistan confronting the enemy in hot battle. It is worse when the victim is a minority person but definitely not limited to that, old people, deaf people, confused people can be in danger of police who panic or whose authority they feel is challenged.
 
Training is definitely in order to address this. 
 
[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/21/health/older-americans-arrests.html]https://www.nytimes.com/2…americans-arrests.html[/link]
 

A county sheriffs deputy in Minneapolis, Kan., [link=http://www.kwch.com/content/news/Ottawa-County-Sheriff-issues-statement-on-tasing-incident-408086125.html]used a Taser on a 91-year-old nursing home resident[/link] with Alzheimers who refused to get into a car for a doctors visit.
In Bakersfield, Calif., a 73-year-old man with dementia was walking in his neighborhood late at night when a woman he approached noticed something in his pocket that she thought might have been a gun. When the police arrived and told him to raise his hands, he ignored their shouts, walked toward them and was shot and killed. The object in his pocket [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/12/14/73-year-old-calif-man-fatally-shot-by-police-was-carrying-crucifix-not-gun/?utm_term=.254a8f7345e2]proved to be[/link] [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/12/14/73-year-old-calif-man-fatally-shot-by-police-was-carrying-crucifix-not-gun/?utm_term=.254a8f7345e2]a crucifix[/link].
 
But beyond dementia, which Dr. Williams hypothesizes accounts for much of the increase, she points out that older adults can behave impulsively because of transient medical issues like [link=http://health.nytimes.com/health/guides/disease/delirium/overview.html?inline=nyt-classifier]delirium[/link], [link=http://health.nytimes.com/health/guides/disease/dehydration/overview.html?inline=nyt-classifier]dehydration[/link], infection or the effects of medications.
 
[link=http://health.nytimes.com/health/guides/symptoms/hearing-loss/overview.html?inline=nyt-classifier]Hearing loss[/link] becomes common among those in their 60s. When the police shout commands, can older people understand what theyre saying? Mobility declines, too. If theyre told to get down on the ground, or to climb into a patrol car while handcuffed, how quickly can they comply if theyre frail? Will their attempts lead to falls and injuries?

 
 
[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/22/us/minneapolis-police-shooting.html]https://www.nytimes.com/2…s-police-shooting.html[/link]

But as in other cases, prosecutors might find it difficult to make a case against Officer Noor if he argues that he believed he was in danger.
 
Mr. Bueermann said he believed many officers were quicker to pull their guns than they would have been a decade or two ago. There is constant messaging to police officers about the dangers of their jobs, he said. Theres a really common adage in policing: Its better to be tried by 12 than carried by six.

[ruszja]

Quote from DICOM_Dan

I thought the video made this lady look really bad for shooting this guy.  Guess the jury did not.

[link=http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/jury-acquits-tulsa-officer-shooting-death-terence-crutcher-n761206]http://www.nbcnews.com/ne…rence-crutcher-n761206[/link]

 
She did what had to be done. Sometimes it doesn’t look pretty.
 
Up to 1:52 of the following video it’s just another crazy guy who doesn’t listen to instructions:
 
[link]https://youtu.be/UluM9kPkVDo[/link]

[btomba_77]

[url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/07/28/trumps-speech-encouraging-police-to-be-rough-annotated/?utm_term=.512b86c8cae7]Trump gives speech encouraging police to be rough,[/url]

On Friday, President Trump traveled to Long Island to address a group of law enforcement officials and speak about the administrations efforts to eradicate the gang Mara Salvatrucha, or MS-13. His speech stuck largely to that theme, though he also made note of Thursday nights failed health-care vote.

Trumps speech was noteworthy, though, for its embrace of aggressive tactics by police officers. He insisted that his team was rough and encouraged police officers not to be concerned about preventing physical harm to people being taken into custody. The laws, he said, were stacked against the police.

Please dont be too nice, Trump told the officers, to applause. Below, his comments, as provided by the White House, with our highlights and annotations. To see an annotation, click on the yellow, highlighted text.[/QUOTE]

[Unknown Member]

 
 

Quote from dergon

[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/07/28/trumps-speech-encouraging-police-to-be-rough-annotated/?utm_term=.512b86c8cae7]Trump gives speech encouraging police to be rough,[/link]

On Friday, President Trump traveled to Long Island to address a group of law enforcement officials and speak about the administrations efforts to eradicate the gang Mara Salvatrucha, or MS-13. His speech stuck largely to that theme, though he also made note of Thursday nights failed health-care vote.

Trumps speech was noteworthy, though, for its embrace of aggressive tactics by police officers. He insisted that his team was rough and encouraged police officers not to be concerned about preventing physical harm to people being taken into custody. The laws, he said, were stacked against the police.

Please dont be too nice, Trump told the officers, to applause. Below, his comments, as provided by the White House, with our highlights and annotations. To see an annotation, click on the yellow, highlighted text.[/QUOTE]

Problem?

[kayla.meyer_144]

If the authorities shoot you or beat you up you must be guilty & deserved it. By definition.
 
That’s in the Constitution. It why we rebelled against England.
 
Just ask Justine Ruszczyk.

[btomba_77]

Quote from Jan the Third

 

Quote from dergon

[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/07/28/trumps-speech-encouraging-police-to-be-rough-annotated/?utm_term=.512b86c8cae7]Trump gives speech encouraging police to be rough,[/link]

On Friday, President Trump traveled to Long Island to address a group of law enforcement officials and speak about the administrations efforts to eradicate the gang Mara Salvatrucha, or MS-13. His speech stuck largely to that theme, though he also made note of Thursday nights failed health-care vote.

Trumps speech was noteworthy, though, for its embrace of aggressive tactics by police officers. He insisted that his team was rough and encouraged police officers not to be concerned about preventing physical harm to people being taken into custody. The laws, he said, were stacked against the police.

Please dont be too nice, Trump told the officers, to applause. [/QUOTE]

Problem?

 
Yes. Very much so.
 
You do [i]not[/i] have one?

[btomba_77]

btw …. law enforcement has problems with it …
 
 
[url=https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/29/nyregion/trump-police-too-nice.html]
Police Criticize Trump for Urging Officers Not to Be Too Nice With Suspects[/url][/h1]  
 

The presidents remark was denounced by police officials and organizations, including the [link=https://theiacpblog.org/2017/07/28/statement-from-the-international-association-of-chief-of-police-on-police-use-of-force/]International Association of Chiefs of Police[/link], the [link=https://www.policefoundation.org/statement-on-the-presidents-remarks-to-law-enforcement-on-july-28-2017/]Police Foundation[/link] and Steve Soboroff, one of the civilian commissioners who oversees the Los Angeles Police Department.
What the president recommended would be out of policy in the Los Angeles Police Department, Mr. Soboroff told [link=http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-pol-trump-ms13-story.html]The Los Angeles Times[/link]. Its not what policing is about today.
Michael Harrison, chief of the New Orleans Police Department, said in a [link=https://twitter.com/NOPDNews/status/891652739704422405]statement[/link] on Saturday that Mr. Trumps comments stand in stark contrast to our departments commitment to constitutional policing and community engagement. The department is one of more than a dozen since 2009 to [link=https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/04/us/heres-how-racial-bias-plays-out-in-policing.html]agree to make reforms[/link] under the direction of a federal monitor.

[Unknown Member]

I’m guessing that you guys don’t have to deal with the animals that are MS-13 and other gangs. Radiologists rarely need venture into the areas in which salt-of-the-earth blue-collar citizens must deal with these threats to daily life. Radiologists get to coach and chastise police from the sidelines, whether the hospitals or the upper-middle-class communities in which they live.

[kayla.meyer_144]

You do, daily?

The job of the police is not to be judge & jury & to administer punishment as they see fit. First thing the Constitution requires is that someone accused be actually found guilty. It does not say the police can or should administer punishment as they fit before guilt is found. & even after being found guilty, people still have rights.

Or you dont support the Constitution thinking it treats criminals too easy.

I think the Founders placed certain protections in the Constitution simply because they did not trust authority without the rule of law guiding them.

[Unknown Member]

Quote from Frumious

You do, daily?

 
 
No. But I take the effort to try to see things from their POV. 

Quote from Frumious

 The job of the police is not to be judge & jury & to administer punishment as they see fit. First thing the Constitution requires is that someone accused be actually found guilty. It does not say the police can or should administer punishment as they fit before guilt is found. & even after being found guilty, people still have rights.

Or you dont support the Constitution thinking it treats criminals too easy.

I think the Founders placed certain protections in the Constitution simply because they did not trust authority without the rule of law guiding them.

 
Trump didn’t recommend that they act in those capacities. What he did – casually – recommend is that they not treat murderers and destroyers of communities with velvet gloves when apprehending them.
 
Good.
 
There was a time when American police’s interactions with the public resembled those of the Mayberry PD. Well, Leftists have the demographic changes they pushed for, and guess what? Mayberry PD is not feasible anymore. 

[kayla.meyer_144]

Counter productive self serving bluster. MS13 loves this type of talk, it helps them & works against police work that actually does work. It undermines police efforts just so Trump can beat his chest as if hes doing something other than posing as a tough guy.

No doubt, MS-13 is a vicious gang that deserves to be pursued by law enforcement. The gang typically targets Central American immigrant communities, and several of their Long Island victims have been Latino. Yet the Trump administration is potentially making the gang stronger. A new CNN report, featuring interviews with MS-13 members, describes how the gang feels emboldened under Trump. Because they know undocumented immigrants will not turn to the police, for fear of detention and deportation, MS-13 is increasingly able to recruit and threaten immigrants with impunity.

[kayla.meyer_144]

The small problem, Jan, is that not everyone arrested is actually guilty. Rough em up anyway just cuz?
 
[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/01/magazine/she-was-convicted-of-killing-her-mother-prosecutors-withheld-the-evidence-that-would-have-freed-her.html]https://www.nytimes.com/2…ld-have-freed-her.html[/link]

It was only in the 1990s, with the advent of DNA testing, that defense lawyers gained insight into how often prosecutors broke the rules by failing to disclose evidence. As courts reopened old cases in light of DNA evidence, files sometimes revealed telltale evidence of innocence facts that pointed to another suspect or undermined the credibility of a witness, which, it turned out, the state possessed all along and never shared. The lead authors of [link=http://www2.law.columbia.edu/brokensystem2/report.pdf]a 2002 study[/link], James Liebman and Jeffrey Fagan of Columbia Law School, reviewed some 2,700 death sen­tences across the country. They found that 351 convictions were ultimately overturned in state appellate courts and that in about 20 percent of those cases, the state failed to disclose evidence. Our analyses reveal that it is in close cases those in which a small amount of evidence might tip the outcome in a different direction that the risk of serious error is the greatest, Liebman and Fagan wrote, raising the chilling possibility that prosecutors could be more likely to withhold evidence when proof of guilt was uncertain.
 
In research published in July, t[link=http://fairpunishment.org/new-report-on-rates-of-prosecutorial-misconduct/]he Fair Punishment Project at Harvard singled out Weirich[/link], along with Leon Cannizzaro and Tony Rackauckas, the district attorneys in New Orleans and Orange County, Calif., for numerous allegations of misconduct in their offices between 2010 and 2015. Under Cannizzaro and Rackauckas, multiple murder cases have unraveled when judges found that prosecutors failed to disclose evidence that mattered for mounting an effective defense. Press officers for the three district attorneys questioned the validity of the Fair Punishment Projects findings. One called the project anti-­law-­enforcement, and another said it was a political organization masquerading as a good-­government group. The Fair Punishment Projects director, Rob Smith, calls these district attorneys recidivists who are repeatedly abusing their power.
 
I spoke to several former Shelby County prosecutors who told me that the reward structure fostered a win-at-all-costs mind-set, fueled by the belief that everyone is guilty all the time, as one put it. The measure of your worth came down to the number of cases you tried and the outcomes, another said. (They asked me not to use their names because they still work as lawyers in Memphis.) One year, the second former prosecutor told me, he dismissed the charges in multiple murder cases. The evidence just didnt support a conviction, he said. But no, I didnt get credit from leadership. In fact, it hurt me. Doing your prosecutorial duty in that office is not considered helpful.

[kaldridgewv2211]

Donald has the best words but you’d never know it.  They’re trying to back track on this by saying it was a joke.  Just a really poor taste joke right.  The guy looks like stupid every chance he gets.  When he’s not making an idiot of himself in front of boy scouts, he’s making an idiot of himself on twitter.

[ruszja]

And again people run off based on taking something the president said seriously.

[kaldridgewv2211]

Okay so Trump wasn’t serious. What is he serious about? How do I know when to take him at his word?

[ruszja]

Quote from DICOM_Dan

Okay so Trump wasn’t serious. What is he serious about? How do I know when to take him at his word?

 
The answer is ‘never’ and ‘dont take him at his word for anything’. 
 
Look at what he does and get upset about that. You’ll be busy enough.

[100574]

recall the Indian Alabama guy paralyzed by the police and a hung jury twice

[kayla.meyer_144]

And on another story about police being above the law, a nurse is arrested for telling a cop he can’t take blood form an unconscious patient the Burn Unit. Seems some police, certainly this Department, needs to learn they are limited by the Constitution and local laws.
 
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/09/01/this-is-crazy-sobs-utah-hospital-nurse-as-cop-roughs-her-up-arrests-her-for-doing-her-job]https://www.washingtonpos…-her-for-doing-her-job[/link]
 

By all accounts, the head nurse at the University of Utah Hospitals burn unit was professional and restrained when she told a Salt Lake City police detective he wasnt allowed to draw blood from a badly injured patient.
 
The detective didnt have a warrant, first off. And the patient wasnt conscious, so he couldnt give consent. Without that, the detective was barred from collecting blood samples  not just by hospital policy, but by basic constitutional law.
 
Nurse Alex Wubbels politely stood her ground. She got her supervisor on the phone so Payne could hear the decision loud and clear. Sir, said the supervisor, youre making a huge mistake because youre threatening a nurse.
 
Payne snapped. He seized hold of the nurse, shoved her out of the building and cuffed her hands behind her back. A bewildered Wubbels screamed help me and youre assaulting me as the detective forced her into an unmarked car and accused her of interfering with an investigation.
 
A 19-minute video from the body camera of a fellow officer shows the bitter argument that unfolded on the floor of the hospitals burn unit. (Things get especially rough around the 6-minute mark).
 
After several minutes, Wubbels shows Payne and the other officer a printout of the hospitals policy on obtaining blood samples from patients. With her supervisor on speakerphone, she calmly tells them they cant proceed unless they have a warrant or patient consent, or if the patient is under arrest.
 
The patient cant consent, hes told me repeatedly that he doesnt have a warrant, and the patient is not under arrest, she says. So Im just trying to do what Im supposed to do, thats all.
 
So I take it without those in place, Im not going to get blood, Payne says.
 
Wubbelss supervisor chimes in on the speakerphone. Why are you blaming the messenger, he asks Payne.
Shes the one that has told me no, the officer responds.
 
Sir, youre making a huge mistake because youre threatening a nurse, Wubbelss supervisor says over the phone.
At that point, Payne seems to lose it.
 
He paces toward the nurse and tries to swat the phone out of her hand. Were done here, he yells. He grabs Wubbels by the arms and shoves her through the automatic doors outside the building.
 
Wubbels screams. Help! Help me! Stop! Youre assaulting me! Stop! Ive done nothing wrong! This is crazy!
Payne presses her into a wall, pulls her arms behind her back and handcuffs her. Two hospital officials tell him to stop, that shes doing her job, but he ignores them.
 
Another officer arrives and tells her she should have allowed Payne to collect the samples he asked for. He says she obstructed justice and prevented Payne from doing his job.

 
 

[kayla.meyer_144]

Testilying. Not limited to New York City alone.
 
[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/10/nyregion/he-excelled-as-a-detective-until-prosecutors-stopped-believing-him.html]https://www.nytimes.com/2…ped-believing-him.html[/link]
 

In New York, the practice of routinely making up facts to justify a dubious arrest was entrenched enough that it got its own nickname more than 20 years ago testilying.
 
There is [link=http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/12/nyregion/12guns.html]a long string of gun arrests[/link] over [link=https://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/12/nyregion/gun-arrests-with-2-things-in-common-the-officers-and-unidentified-informers.html?_r=0]the years in[/link] which judges have [link=https://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/16/nyregion/charges-dismissed-in-brooklyn-gun-case-as-police-are-investigated.html]cast doubt[/link] on the officers accounts. And troubling instances keep emerging. In recent years, the Civilian Complaint Review Board, a city agency that investigates police misconduct, [link=https://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/15/nyregion/civilian-board-notes-rise-in-false-statements-by-new-york-officers-in-2014.html]has documented an increase in cases in which police officers give false statements[/link].
 
There is lying going on on a regular basis, said Richard Emery, who until last year was the chairman of the review board. While he credits the department with effective reforms regarding use-of-force and unconstitutional search and seizures, he said, the one major lapse in the fantastic work of the N.Y.P.D. is not addressing police lying.
 
Lawrence Byrne, the departments top legal official, disclosed in a recent panel discussion at the City Bar Association that 73 officers have been fired or forced out of the department in the last five years for either perjury or making a false statement, and that about twice that many officers had faced lesser penalties for false statements in the last few years.
 
Detective Desormeau had recently transferred there from Jamaica, Queens, five miles to the east. His sergeants there had regarded him as a gift to policing, according to his performance evaluations, which were described to The New York Times by someone who had reviewed them. He possessed superior judgment. He embodied the most aggressive style of police work, one wrote. Another called him a primordial asset.
 
[b]But on the streets, some people knew him only by a nickname, Training Day, [/b]after the film about a corrupt cop played by Denzel Washington, said Robert Perreira, himself once arrested by Detective Desormeaus unit.
 

 
 

[kayla.meyer_144]

Prosecutorial misconduct. Man in prison for 21 years & prosecutors not only knew he was several states away  at the time of the crime, they concocted a story to convict him.
 
Now he’s finally free but still the prosecutor’s office opposed the full pardon.
 
[link=https://www.propublica.org/article/fred-steese-nevada-pardons-wrongfully-convicted-man-featured-in-our-story]https://www.propublica.or…-featured-in-our-story[/link]
 

The Nevada Board of Pardons Commissioners granted a full pardon on Wednesday to a man who spent 21 years in prison for a murder he didnt commit, delivering a clear rebuke to the Las Vegas prosecutors who had refused to recognize his innocence.
 
Let there be no residual stain on his record, Nevada Supreme Court Justice Lidia Stiglich said, announcing her motion in support of the pardon, which was joined by her six fellow justices and the governor. The states attorney general, who is running for governor, voted against.
 
The case of Fred Steese, and the serial misconduct of the prosecutors who pursued him, was the subject of a [link=https://www.propublica.org/article/alford-pleas-fred-steese-conviction-without-admitting-guilt/]lengthy investigation[/link] by ProPublica and Vanity Fair published in May.
 
Steese, a young, poorly educated drifter, was arrested in 1992 for the grisly murder of Gerard Soules, a Las Vegas performer with a costumed poodle act at the Circus Circus casino. At the time of Soules death, Steese was several states away. But prosecutors didnt reveal that they had evidence that Steese was telling the truth, instead telling jurors that Steese had fabricated his alibi with the help of his look-alike brother. During the trial, the prosecutors also concealed the nature of several photo lineups pointing to Steeses innocence and accused the defense of manufacturing evidence.
 
Steese was convicted in 1995 and sentenced to two life sentences. The men who prosecuted him, Bill Kephart and Doug Herndon, are now district court judges in Las Vegas.
 
In 2012, a Nevada Eighth Judicial District Court judge issued a rare Order of Actual Innocence, the first of its kind in that court, essentially declaring that Steese didnt kill anyone. But the Clark County District Attorneys Office refused to concede it had convicted the wrong man. Instead, prosecutors vowed to fight Steeses exoneration and to retry him.
 
At the hearing, Nasrey pressed the commissioners on the consequences for those responsible for Steeses conviction: Now that it was clear that certain lawyers and detectives helped convict an innocent man … will they be held accountable for taking away 20 years of his life?

 
Need to prosecute the prosecutors & detectives into prison for the next 20 years.
 

[heenadevk1119_462]

I often wonder why people post on here, why Frumi posts, or why people respond to her

[Unknown Member]

Quote from Dr. ****er

I often wonder why people post on here, why Frumi posts, or why people respond to her

 
I wonder why you wonder about other people.

[kayla.meyer_144]

The wonder is that cigar/F@ger thinks anyone gives a damn what he allegedly “thinks,” an oxymoron right there.

[kaldridgewv2211]

This happened right across the street from where we work.  Seems like it might have been a legit use of force but what sticks out to me is the off-duty cop was still on the CPD after lying about working.  Still serves on the CPD after 8 counts of falsification and suspended jail sentence.  How is the person employable as a policeman.  My guess is the union backed him at the time he was caught lying.
 
“The police officer who fatally shot a 21-year-old man who attacked him [link=http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2018/01/police_officer_shoots_man_at_c.html#incart_2box]at the Corner Alley bowling alley[/link] in University Circle [b]had previously been convicted of lying about working when he was actually at his home.[/b]
Sgt. Dean Graziolli, a 26-year veteran of the police department, will spend three days on paid administrative leave, then will be assigned to light duty in the gym at the downtown Cleveland police headquarters while the investigation into the shooting proceeds, according to Cleveland Fraternal Order of Police President Brian Betley.”
 
“[b][link=http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/02/cleveland_police_sergeant_indi.html]Graziolli in 2014 [/link]pleaded guilty to eight first-degree misdemeanor counts of falsification.[/b]
He claimed on his pay records to have been working on eight different days between Oct. 14 and Nov. 1, 2012. His cellphone records showed that he wasn’t in the Fourth District, where he claimed to be, for most of those days. An investigation later found that Graziolli was at home when he claimed to be working those days.
[b]He was given a suspended six-month jail sentence and ordered to pay a $1,000 fine[/b].” 
 
 
 
[link=http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2018/01/cleveland_officer_who_fatally.html#incart_river_home_pop]http://www.cleveland.com/…#incart_river_home_pop[/link]

[btomba_77]

Quote from DICOM_Dan

This happened right across the street from where we work.  Seems like it might have been a legit use of force but what sticks out to me is the off-duty cop was still on the CPD after lying about working.  Still serves on the CPD after 8 counts of falsification and suspended jail sentence.  How is the person employable as a policeman.  My guess is the union backed him at the time he was caught lying.

“The police officer who fatally shot a 21-year-old man who attacked him [link=http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2018/01/police_officer_shoots_man_at_c.html#incart_2box]at the Corner Alley bowling alley[/link] in University Circle [b]had previously been convicted of lying about working when he was actually at his home.[/b]
Sgt. Dean Graziolli, a 26-year veteran of the police department, will spend three days on paid administrative leave, then will be assigned to light duty in the gym at the downtown Cleveland police headquarters while the investigation into the shooting proceeds, according to Cleveland Fraternal Order of Police President Brian Betley.”

“[b][link=http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/02/cleveland_police_sergeant_indi.html]Graziolli in 2014 [/link]pleaded guilty to eight first-degree misdemeanor counts of falsification.[/b]
He claimed on his pay records to have been working on eight different days between Oct. 14 and Nov. 1, 2012. His cellphone records showed that he wasn’t in the Fourth District, where he claimed to be, for most of those days. An investigation later found that Graziolli was at home when he claimed to be working those days.
[b]He was given a suspended six-month jail sentence and ordered to pay a $1,000 fine[/b].” 

[link=http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2018/01/cleveland_officer_who_fatally.html#incart_river_home_pop]http://www.cleveland.com/…#incart_river_home_pop[/link]

The things you learn:
 
Cleveland Police officers can work [i]in uniform[/i] off duty but don’t have to have their body cameras on while they do.

[kaldridgewv2211]

That surprises me too.  If that off duty cop fudges up, I’m sure the lawyers will make sure to include Cleveland in the lawsuit.
 
 

[btomba_77]

[url=https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/01/09/nyregion/new-york-police-union-body-camera-lawsuit.html?referer=]NYPD police union sues to prevent release of body camera videos[/url]
 

The Police Department considers releasing body camera video of critical incidents, like police shootings, on a case-by-case basis. The police commissioner makes the final decision after consulting with the district attorney in the borough where the shooting took place.
 
So far, the Police Department, under Commissioner James P. ONeill, has released edited footage of three police shootings, including two that [link=https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/14/nyregion/police-body-camera-footage-new-york.html]were[/link] [link=https://www.wsj.com/articles/nypd-releases-footage-of-police-shooting-man-holding-knife-1512005251]fatal[/link]. But in the lawsuit, union lawyers argue that the videos raw or edited are personnel records shielded from public disclosure by Section 50-a of the state Civil Rights law, a statute that also protects officers performance evaluations and disciplinary records.

 
“Personnel records”, my eye.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Some of the videos that raised the question of the police out of control.
 
[link=https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/08/19/us/police-videos-race.html]https://www.nytimes.com/i…olice-videos-race.html[/link]

[cpmolnar]

unreal

[kayla.meyer_144]

Police not being prosecuted for the killing of Alton Sterling but the primary officer is fired & the second gets a brief suspension. Not exactly justice but has to do in creating a long term solution for police over-reaction.
 
A new police video is released of the shooting.
 
[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/30/us/baton-rouge-alton-sterling.html]https://www.nytimes.com/2…ge-alton-sterling.html[/link]
 

A police officer who fatally shot a black man in Baton Rouge, La., nearly two years ago was fired on Friday, and a fellow officer involved in the episode was suspended for three days. The disciplinary actions were the first serious consequences for the officers after both [link=https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/27/us/alton-sterling-baton-rouge.html]state[/link] and [link=https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/02/us/alton-sterling-justice-department.html]federal[/link] officials declined to bring criminal charges against them.
 
Blane Salamoni, the officer who was dismissed, fired six shots at the man, Alton B. Sterling, after responding to a call at a convenience store parking lot on July 5, 2016.
 
After announcing the disciplinary actions, the department released new raw footage of Mr. Sterlings arrest and his killing moments later. Video taken from a police body camera shows Officer Salamoni repeatedly shouting profanities at Mr. Sterling; slamming him into a car; twice ordering the second officer, Howie Lake II, to use his Taser; and threatening to shoot Mr. Sterling with a gun pointed at his head.
 
These actions were not minor deviations from policy, Chief Murphy Paul of the Baton Rouge Police Department said. And they contributed to the outcome that resulted in the death of another human being.
 
Chief Paul said that Officer Salamoni had violated the departments use-of-force rules and that Officer Lake had violated its policies on sustaining command of temper.
 
The chief spoke mostly in generalities about why the men were found to have violated the policies. One officer attempted to use de-escalation and disengagement techniques consistent with policy and procedure and training, he said. And one officer did not follow the tactics, training, professionalism and organizational standards.
 
[b]He also said: Fear cannot be a driver for an officers response to every incident. Unreasonable fear within an officer is dangerous.[/b]

 
 
 

[kaldridgewv2211]

so this is like a Milwaukee Bucks rookie that got tased and arrested at 2AM outside a Walgreens.  I’m actually OK with this one.  He double parked on handicap spots which you don’t do at 2AM or 2PM.  Also he didn’t listen about keeping his hands out of his pockets.  That definitely made the police go right on offense.
 
Situations like mine and worse happen every day in the black community. Being a voice and a face for people who wont be heard and dont have the same platform as I have is a responsibility I take seriously. I am speaking for Dontre Hamilton of Milwaukee, Laquan McDonald of Chicago, Stephon Clark of Sacramento, Eric Garner of New York, and the list goes on. These people arent able to speak anymore because of unjust actions by those who are supposed to serve and protect the people.
 
 
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2018/05/23/sterling-brown-police-video/?utm_term=.950b0f8d12cf&wpisrc=al_news__alert-sports–alert-national&wpmk=1]https://www.washingtonpos…rt-national&wpmk=1[/link]

[kayla.meyer_144]

Sh1te! All the cop needed to do was give him a ticket for parking. The police escalated the whole thing. The original cop had an attitude to begin with & he never appeared threatening to the cop. As for hands in his pockets, that was after the multiple patrol cars and cops arrived just to give him a parking ticket and a whole lot of attitude. After being thrown down & tasered and then jailed for 18 hours, he was charged with nothing, nada, zero, zilch except for the parking ticket.
 
“This is America” as Childish Gambino sings.

[kaldridgewv2211]

also 2AM and the guy was obviously the kind of dong that would double park in handicap spots.  Sometimes karma comes in the form of a taser.

[cpmolnar]

2am is probably a pretty good time to double park in a handicap spot

[kayla.meyer_144]

I sure he was taking some poor handicapped driver’s spot in the busy parking lot at 2 AM.
 
Regardless, he got a ticket, the most he deserved. & even that was unnecessary at 2 AM. The cop escalated the whole thing out of proportion with his attitude & calling for backup about some black guy who wasn’t obsequious and slavish enough to suit the cop and his backup.
Like the cops said, it was all on video for all to see who was at fault.
 
 

[ruszja]

And then there is this outrageous case in South Carolina. In short, pastor on his way home drives his benz into this nice neighborhood. Gets pulled over by this racist police officer for ‘driving while black in a nice neighborhood’. Cop accuses him of having drugs in his car and threatens to put him in jail over something to do with the license plates. Outrageous.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Except that based on the bodycam video, none of this actually happened:
 
[link=https://www.theroot.com/south-carolina-naacp-president-claimed-he-was-racially-1826069258]https://www.theroot.com/s…as-racially-1826069258[/link]
 

[kayla.meyer_144]

Cop who shot Antwon Rose charged with criminal homicide.
 
[link=https://www.cbsnews.com/news/antwon-rose-jr-death-east-pittsburgh-officer-michael-rosfeld-charged-today-2018-06-27/]https://www.cbsnews.com/n…rged-today-2018-06-27/[/link]

The East Pittsburgh Police officer who [link=https://www.cbsnews.com/news/antwon-rose-shooting-east-pittsburgh-michael-rosfeld-new-details-today-2018-06-22/]fatally shot 17-year-old Antwon Rose Jr.[/link] on June 19 has been charged with criminal homicide. According to court records, East Pittsburgh Police Officer Michael Rosfeld was formally charged Wednesday morning.
 
In a criminal complaint filed in the case, detectives cite witnesses who said Rose clearly had nothing in his hands when he was shot, contradicting what Rosfeld initially told investigators. 
 
According to District Attorney Stephen Zappala, Jr., Rose can be seen on witness video showing his hands before fleeing. No weapon was found on his person.  

Rosfeld first told investigators that Rose “turned his hand toward” Rosfeld, who “saw something dark that he perceived as a gun,” detectives wrote in the complaint. But when asked to repeat his version of events, Rosfeld’s story changed, detectives wrote.
 
Rosfeld’s actions were intentional and he was not acting to prevent death or serious injury, Zappala said.
“You do not shoot somebody in the back if they are not a threat to you,” Zappala said.  

Zappala said the officer’s actions clearly support a third-degree murder conviction but they will ask the jury to consider a full range of charges, including first-degree murder.
 
Rosfeld had only been on duty in East Pittsburgh for three weeks, and he was formally sworn in about 90 minutes before the fatal shooting. Rosfeld had been working as a police officer in the region since 2011.

He had previously worked in Harmarville and Oakmont. He also worked for the University of Pittsburgh Police Department and [link=https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2018/06/22/michael-rosfeld-pitt-police-dismissal-antwon-rose/]was reportedly dismissed for cause from the university[/link]. 

 
 
 
 

[kaldridgewv2211]

in the video it sure looks like he’s sprinting away when he gets shot.  So do Pittsburgh cops not have body cameras?  Like they have autonomous cabs in the city but no body cams?

[kayla.meyer_144]

Bad week even if zero surprise about the outcome whether now or after the election but before the new congress is sworn in.
 
But GOOD news about the police officer who murdered Laquan McDonald in Chicago!
 
People in power need to be answerable to the public for their actions. They serve the public after all.

[kayla.meyer_144]

“Florida Man” arrested by “Florida Cop” for holding plastic bag full of heroin. Uh, turns out it was a bag full of TIDE detergent.
 
Easy mistake to make I guess. I mean, who can tell the difference?
 
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/01/30/he-was-jailed-days-having-heroin-it-was-only-detergent-part-wider-scandal]https://www.washingtonpos…ent-part-wider-scandal[/link]
 

Martin County Sheriffs Office deputy Steven OLeary approached Crulls window.
 
During a search of the car, OLeary pulled a plastic bag cinched shut with a hair tie from the drivers side door compartment. Inside was a white powder Tide laundry detergent. But Crulls world flipped upside down when the deputy announced a field test had determined the substance was actually heroin 92 grams worth.
 
Earlier this month, Martin County Sheriff William Snyder [link=https://www.wptv.com/news/local-news/martin-county/martin-county-sheriff-to-hold-news-conference-about-firing-of-deputy]announced[/link] the agency had discovered OLeary had made arrests based on substances he claimed field-tested positive as drugs. But later tests showed those substances actually were not illegal.
 
The deputy was fired from the department on Jan. 15. [link=https://www.tcpalm.com/story/news/crime/martin-county/2019/01/28/martin-county-sheriff-fired-deputy-false-narcotics-tests/2703927002/]On Monday,[/link] the agency announced 11 people have been released from jail including Crull. According [link=https://www.wptv.com/news/local-news/martin-county/martin-county-sheriff-to-hold-news-conference-about-firing-of-deputy]to Snyder[/link], detectives are now combing through the 80 drug arrests OLeary made in his 11 months with the sheriffs office.
 
Law enforcement officers mistake benign substances for drugs at a fairly regular rate. In the past two years, faulty field tests have identified everything from [link=https://abc13.com/news/man-arrested-for-meth-had-kitty-litter-not-meth/1690696/]cat litter[/link] to [link=https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46393600]candy floss [/link]to Krispy Kreme [link=https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/10/16/558147669/florida-man-awarded-37-500-after-cops-mistake-glazed-doughnut-crumbs-for-meth]doughnut crumbs[/link] as illicit substances. As The Washington Posts Radley Balko wrote in a [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2018/03/13/why-are-police-departments-still-using-drug-field-tests/?utm_term=.0d60aa9d71b0]March 2018 column[/link], studies have shown field tests may produce false positives anywhere from 1-in-5 to 1-in-3 times they are used.

 
 

[leann2001nl]

So they’re putting people in jail before they even have definitive testing that these are illegal substances? Seems insane

[kayla.meyer_144]

The cop said it was tested as heroin.
 
Why would the police lie?

[btomba_77]

[link=https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/cleveland-metro/yes-on-issue-24-which-would-provide-community-police-oversight-has-clear-majority-of-vote]https://www.news5clevelan…clear-majority-of-vote[/link]

Cleveland passes Issue 24 to create an outside independent citizen review board for the Cleveland Police.

[ul][*]oversee police conduct investigations and discipline, report and advise about police-community relations, and oversee police training and recruitment;[*]requirements that the commission be demographically representative of the city; and[*]changes to membership qualifications and requirements for the Civilian Police Review Board to include attorneys with experience defending victims of police brutality, give the mayor instead of the police chief the authority to remove board members, and require the board’s budget to equal at least 1% of the police department’s budget. [/ul] [/QUOTE]

Looks like it passed about 60/40, very close to the vote split for our new progressive mayor Justin Bibb (who supported 24) versus the Dem establishment candidate (who opposed)
 

[kaldridgewv2211]

It sounds good but won’t the police union protect the police from discipline anyway?  

[btomba_77]

Quote from DICOM_Dan

It sounds good but won’t the police union protect the police from discipline anyway?  

we will see how it works in practice, but the intent is to take the final adjudication of police discipline out of the hands of the police chief/internal board/executive branch and put it in the hands of the commission
 
 
” authorize the CPRB to [b]engage outside lawyers[/b] without legislative or executive branch authority and can[b] overrule any disciplinary decision by the Chief of Police[/b].
 
Establishes a permanent [b]Community Police Commission[/b] which, among other powers, has the final authority on disciplining police officers and police employees, and [b]has final authority over police policies, procedures and training regimens[/b]. ”

[btomba_77]

[link=https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/national-international/biden-signs-executive-order-targeting-police-use-of-force/2842383/] Biden Signs Executive Order Targeting Police Use-of-Force

[/link]
 
[link=https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/biden-orders-federal-policing-reform-2nd-anniversary-george/story?id=84976784] Biden orders federal policing reform on 2nd anniversary of George Floyd’s killing

[/link]
 
The executive order signed by Biden will create a new national database that contains records of federal officer misconduct, including convictions, terminations, de-certifications, civil judgments, resignations and retirements while under investigation for serious misconduct.
 
It also requires all federal law enforcement agencies to revise use-of-force policies, banning chokeholds and restricting the use of no-knock warrants — two tactics that were widely criticized following the deaths of Floyd and Taylor.
 
 

[kayla.meyer_144]

Who needs police? 
 
Police watch a man drown as they do nothing but comment on how long it will take.
 
nytimes.com/2022/06/06/us/tempe-police-suspect-drowning.html?unlocked_article_code=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACEIPuomT1JKd6J17Vw1cRCfTTMQmqxCdw_PIxftm3iWka3DLDm4ciPkORJSN_l_AILJkY9o40nGAWcRZPbQzAfBoyfBZPkpiDQm0p

Three Tempe, Ariz., police officers are on paid leave amid an investigation into their response to a man who jumped into a lake and, despite his repeated pleas for help, drowned as the officers watched, newly released video footage and records show.

 
But then as I recall the Supreme Court ruled  in the past that police doing anything to help is not a rightful expectation.
 
Happy to know they are useful for something. Just what is the question if these are examples of American police.
 

 
 

[Unknown Member]

Yes, the radical leftists are quite safe in their McMansions while they chastise the blue for keeping them safe……

[btomba_77]

I have brothers both in the military and in law enforcement.
 
Both are conservative.
 
Both would find the thought that people being being arrested are someone deserving of unnecessary violence. 

[Unknown Member]

No worries. I’m sure there will be no unnecessary violence on you……or any other law abiding legal citizen.

[kaldridgewv2211]

Quote from dergon

btw …. law enforcement has problems with it …

[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/29/nyregion/trump-police-too-nice.html]
Police Criticize Trump for Urging Officers Not to Be Too Nice With Suspects[/link]  

The presidents remark was denounced by police officials and organizations, including the [link=https://theiacpblog.org/2017/07/28/statement-from-the-international-association-of-chief-of-police-on-police-use-of-force/]International Association of Chiefs of Police[/link], the [link=https://www.policefoundation.org/statement-on-the-presidents-remarks-to-law-enforcement-on-july-28-2017/]Police Foundation[/link] and Steve Soboroff, one of the civilian commissioners who oversees the Los Angeles Police Department.
What the president recommended would be out of policy in the Los Angeles Police Department, Mr. Soboroff told [link=http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-pol-trump-ms13-story.html]The Los Angeles Times[/link]. Its not what policing is about today.
Michael Harrison, chief of the New Orleans Police Department, said in a [link=https://twitter.com/NOPDNews/status/891652739704422405]statement[/link] on Saturday that Mr. Trumps comments stand in stark contrast to our departments commitment to constitutional policing and community engagement. The department is one of more than a dozen since 2009 to [link=https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/04/us/heres-how-racial-bias-plays-out-in-policing.html]agree to make reforms[/link] under the direction of a federal monitor.

I think this is a case in which actions speak louder than words.  I think some of these departments just jumped on Trump commentary so they could put out those statements like “not us, we’re better”.  New Orleans PD needed to gain a lot of trust back.   If I recall they were shooting people after Katrina.  

[btomba_77]

[link=https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/3516381-supreme-court-shields-border-patrol-agents-from-excessive-force-suits/]https://thehill.com/regul…excessive-force-suits/[/link]

[h1]Supreme Court shields Border Patrol agents from excessive force suits[/h1]

The 6-3 ruling, penned by Justice [link=https://thehill.com/people/clarence-thomas/]Clarence Thomas,[/link] broke along ideological lines, with the courts conservatives comprising a majority over the dissent of the courts three liberals. 
 
The case concerned whether a lawsuit should be allowed to move forward against a Border Patrol agent accused of using excessive force during his search of an inn located just south of the U.S.-Canada border.
 
The conservative majority, citing national security concerns, declined to extend a judge-made rule that allows plaintiffs to sue federal officers for certain constitutional violations. That relief, based on a precedent set by Bivens v. Six Unknown Named Agents, is generally disfavored by judicial conservatives. 
 
Because matters intimately related to foreign policy and national security are rarely proper subjects for judicial intervention, Thomas wrote, we reaffirm that a Bivens cause of action may not lie where, as here, national security is at issue.

[/QUOTE]
 

[kayla.meyer_144]

There are your jack-booted government agents.
 
Fascism is the future. All supported by Conservatives.