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New life for NATO?
Putin is giving Ukraine stern warnings against petitioning to join the Alliance.
Obama was in Estonia yesterday reviewing military bases and giving assurances to the Baltic nations and warning Putin not to pull a Ukraine-style action on any NATO member States.
Now he is on to a NATO summit in Wales today, the focal point of which will be Putin and Russian aggression.
It makes me wonder if the echoes of a new cold war might make NATO relevant again. -
111 Replies
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NATO wont matter until the other nembers start to spend a meaningful percentage of their GDP on defense.
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Quote from fw
NATO wont matter until the other nembers start to spend a meaningful percentage of their GDP on defense.
[link=http://blogs.cfr.org/davidson/2014/09/04/explainer-this-graph-shows-how-natos-military-capability-has-evolved-since-1949/]http://blogs.cfr.org/davi…as-evolved-since-1949/[/link]
Check out the slider graph in that link. It shows the percentage of NATO spending by each member nation from the post=war period to present.
The US has always had the bulk of the military spending in NATO. It peaked at 77% in 1952 and was at its lowest in 1999 at 55% as the Europeans had upped their military in response to the Balkans. -
Quote from fw
NATO wont matter until the other nembers start to spend a meaningful percentage of their GDP on defense.
I’m not sure if you would consider this a compliment … but the Editorial staff at Bloomberg agrees with you.
[link=http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-09-30/how-to-contain-putin]http://www.bloombergview….0/how-to-contain-putin[/link]
[b]
How to Contain Putin[/h1] [/b]
As German Chancellor Angela Merkel [link=http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-09-29/merkel-says-eu-u-s-may-be-facing-long-ukraine-crisis.html]said yesterday[/link]: “Sometimes in history one has to be prepared for the long haul, and not ask after four months if it still makes sense to keep up our demands. Putin’s recent moves and decisions serve as a reminder that it is his long-range plan to assert Russian military might and economic power in Europe.
Russia has been rebuilding its armed forces since at least 2004. Earlier this year, the Russian government said the defense budget, which has almost doubled since 2010, [link=http://www.janes.com/article/36363/russia-commits-to-18-budget-rise]will rise[/link] by 18 percent again this year and 22 percent in 2015. Russia is midway through a 30-year aircraft carrier program, and last week, sea [link=http://rt.com/news/187216-russia-borei-submarine-bulava/]trials ended[/link] on a third new strategic nuclear submarine.
Defense spending, at 4.2 percent of gross domestic product, is nothing like the [link=http://fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/agency/mo-budget.htm]15 percent-plus[/link] of the Soviet period. And Russia is entitled, like all sovereign nations, to modernize its military. But Russia is spending more than it can sustain under sanctions without raiding its reserves and pension funds. And when this kind of expansion is used to annex territory and destabilize neighbors, the rest of the world needs to respond.
That means sticking with sanctions for a while. Despite a shaky cease-fire in Ukraine, experience shows it is never wise to assume Putin has renounced military and economic assaults on his neighbors. Negotiations over Russia’s genuine issues with Ukraine’s trade agreement with the EU are under way, but countries don’t have the right to dictate at the barrel of a gun the terms on which other independent countries trade.
[b]The more long-range response, and the more necessary one, is [link=http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-09-05/now-comes-nato-s-true-test]a rethinking of[/link] the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. Member states have to reverse the decline in spending on defense and rebuild some of the defensive forces they have dismantled since 1989. [/b] The EU also needs to develop a more unified energy policy. Hungary’s [link=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29374151]decision[/link]last week to end natural gas sales to Ukraine under Russian pressure shows why. EU sanctions on Russia will be pointless if its members collude in starving Ukraine of energy.
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japan just put in sanctions…Putin emperial Russia will not be rebuilt by u ..u have none of the class of the last Tsar
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[link=http://abcnews.go.com/International/nato-intercepts-19-russian-military-planes-day/story?id=26552875]http://abcnews.go.com/Int…-day/story?id=26552875[/link]
Nato is getting busy trying to contain a provocative Putin.
[b]
NATO Intercepts at Least 19 Russian Military Planes in 1 Day[/b][/h1]
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And NATO is getting the message… pushing member states to increase spending
[link=http://www.militarytimes.com/article/20141028/NEWS08/310280042/NATO-chief-urges-allies-boost-defense-spending-build-ties-Russia]http://www.militarytimes….ding-build-ties-Russia[/link]
NATO countries must boost defense spending and build a constructive relationship with Russia, the alliances new leader said on Tuesday.
There is no contradiction between being pro-collective defense and a strong NATO and pro-engagement with Russia, NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said at a debate organized by the German Marshall Fund think tank. We need a strong defense to be engaged with Russia. NATO and Russia are here to stay. Well have a relationship with Russia.
The question is not whether, but what kind of relationship, he said. A strong alliance and increasing defense spending in real terms create the fundamentals for relating to Russia in a cooperative way.
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The Russians have been intercepted around US air space also. Alaska down the pacific coast and around New Newfoundland coming down the Atlantic.
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IS Turkey not part of NATA then what’s up with the sailor’s incident
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NATO member polling – A majority of citizens believe that their countries should not support allies militarily and a strong amjority believe the US should come their aid if attacked.
It’s a “have your cake and eat it too” for the Europeans.
[link=http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/06/10/nato-countries-see-usa-as-shield-to-russian-threat/28752613/]http://www.usatoday.com/s…ssian-threat/28752613/[/link]
Some of the United States’ closest NATO partners in Europe are reluctant to come to the aid of a neighboring ally attacked by Russia possibly because they think the United States will come to the rescue, according to a survey published Wednesday.
More than 50% of respondents in the Pew Research Center poll from Italy, France and Germany said their countries should refrain from aiding an ally.
Across eight key NATO countries surveyed, fewer than half 48% said their nation should intervene militarily if Russia gets in a serious conflict with a neighboring ally. That compares with 42% who oppose intervening.
More than two-thirds 68% of those surveyed said the United States would come to an ally’s defense, according to results released Wednesday.-
The typical weak stuff I would expect from Europeons. Greece in in there somewhere, you know they want everything to do for them.
History began on July 4th, 1776. Everything before that was a mistake. – Ron Swanson-
Depending on fossil fuels from Russia is a certain strong take-a-strong-stand killer. And they look to the US for leadership. Are we ready to start up the cold War again? Or military confrontation with Russia starting in Ukraine?
But is Congress willing to take on Putin? Not long ago they were swooning with the bare-chested Vlad on horseback extolling his leadership & manliness & support for the 2nd Amendment.
“[i]Ohhh Vlad[/i]”
I’m waiting to hear the old Chamberlain & Hitler arguments again from the Hawks.-
Isn’t it already a cold war. There’s sanctions on the Russian economy that are putting the hurt on them. I don’t see how people put up with Putin, it’s definitely a rigged game for the Russian people. Vlad might try to project power but I like the speak softly carry a big stick approach.
[link]http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28400218[/link]-
How many fronts are we going to have. The Saudis also want us to “lead” regarding ISIS, etc. which suits several Republicans. Back to Iraq for Iraq III?
When do we reinstate the DRAFT & higher taxes to pay for coming “military actions?” -
I don’t suspect we’re going to fight Russia in a military conflict, right now we’re fighting them with the bankers, and import/export. Last time I checked we had to sign up for the selective service registry in high school so it’s not beyond the realm of possibility they might call me up but I’d say unlikely. I’d need to do boot camp 3 times to get in military shape. We’re not totally out of Iraq either, plus sending more advisers.
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Groundhog Day all over again.
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Gallup: [url=http://www.gallup.com/poll/204071/americans-support-nato-alliance.aspx]Large majority of Americans support NATO; partisan split noted[/url]
80% of Americans support NATA and favor keeping the alliance.
Partisan breakdown: 97% of Democrats, 69% of Republicans.
This number represents the highest level of support since Gallup started asking the question.
[img]http://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/_xlxiiikue6u128m3-diow.png[/img]
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Not real sure how anyone could be against an organization that has pretty much defeated communism in Europe, stabilized Europe and led to a long period of peace
This scares the sheet out of me
I understand it’s real easy to nit pick when everything is going relatively ok in times of peace but It’s like those who forget history are doomed to repeat it
Scary as sheet
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It’s all about short term interests and money and taking government for granted. No major wars for 70 years & relative international stability. PAX Americana.
Ho-hum. Lower taxes is the only concern.-
As was mentioned at the top of this thread and one thing I’d agree with Trump on, other members need to chip in their fair share. 2% GDP is the NATO spending goal.
[link=http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2017/02/daily-chart-11]http://www.economist.com/…2017/02/daily-chart-11[/link]
It’s like poet Snoop Dog rapped ‘everyone got their cup but they ain’t chipped in’-
It’s not like we get nothing out of the deals. You think our defense budget is so high only because others are lower?
No.
We are in the defense and weapons business for one. Politicians have always told us that we are losing the arms race & need to spend more. It never mattered whether Britain or anyone else spent more or less, we always had to spend more. And it was good for jobs at home where defense industries had a very good thing going.
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It’s not solely about what we in the USA spend. If the agreed upon goal is 2% that is what all the NATO members should spend at a minimum. If one NATO member is attacked everyone will be called on to defend. Meet or exceed your obligation.
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And if they don’t? Russia can walk in & we’ll say nothing? Lodge a nasty letter to Vlad? Or Vlad will just agree to advance no further than the old Iron Curtain borders & we’ll do nothing?
Getting European countries to pay more is one thing but holding back on aid and threatening to stand by while they are invaded or undermined is a whole other issue. What does it mean to be an ally these days? A form of mercenary assistance?
“How much are you willing to pay for protection?” PAX Americana is a protection racket now?-
[url=http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/germany-dismisses-white-houses-intimidating-300bn-bill-for-defence-dl7dk629k]Trump sends Angela Merkel an invoice for NATO debt[/url]
President Trump handed German chancellor Angela Merkel a bill thought to be for more than £300bn for money her country owed NATO for defending it when they met last week, the [link=http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/germany-dismisses-white-houses-intimidating-300bn-bill-for-defence-dl7dk629k]Times of London[/link] reports.
The bill handed over during private talks in Washington was described as outrageous by one German minister.
Said the minister: The concept behind putting out such demands is to intimidate the other side, but the chancellor took it calmly and will not respond to such provocations.-
Trump is such an idiot. But his supporters love him because he is a boastful idiot.
Which is why Putin loves his useful village idiot.
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Listening to a [i]Bloomberg[/i] interview with former NATO Supreme Allied Commander Europe, Admiral James Stavridis ahead of the upcoming NATO meeting.
Takeaway quote: “If you think of NATO as a stock, now would be a time to buy.”
The message on funding has been heard loud and clear by european governments, the Trump administration has been much more supportive of NATO than the campaign rhetoric would have suggested. (He just [url=http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-montenegro-nato-2017-4] signed off on admitting Montenegro into the alliance.[/url]) And the Trump team is making efforts to rally alliance members against Russia.
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Another reason I think he’s listening more the McMaster and Mattis. Waiting on the shoe to drop on Bannon, Preibus and Spicer.
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Pew: [url=http://www.pewglobal.org/2017/05/23/natos-image-improves-on-both-sides-of-atlantic/]NATOs Image Improves on Both Sides of Atlantic[/url]
Up off the bottom from 2016.
[img]http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/05/22140717/PG_2017.05.23.nato-00-08.png[/img]
Interesting to me, in the US it is conservatives who generally oppose NATO while on the European continent the opposition comes from the political Left.
[img]http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/05/22140716/PG_2017.05.23.nato-00-07.png[/img]
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Steve Bannon … the gremlin that removed the reference to mutual defense in Trump’s NATO speech?
[url=http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/06/05/trump-nato-speech-national-security-team-215227][B]Trump’s National Security Team Blindsided by NATO Speech:[/B]They thought the president would commit to the principle of collective defense. They were wrong.[/url]
{T}he president also disappointedand surprisedhis own top national security officials by failing to include the language reaffirming the so-called Article 5 provision in his speech. National security adviser H.R. McMaster, Defense Secretary James Mattis and Secretary of State Rex Tillerson all supported Trump doing so and had worked in the weeks leading up to the trip to make sure it was included in the speech, according to five sources familiar with the episode. They thought it was, and a White House aide even told The New York Times the day before the line was definitely included.
It was not until the next day, Thursday, May 25, when Trump started talking at an opening ceremony for NATOs new Brussels headquarters, that the presidents national security team realized their boss had made a decision with major consequenceswithout consulting or even informing them in advance of the change.
The president appears to have deleted it himself, according to one version making the rounds inside the government, reflecting his personal skepticism about NATO and insistence on lecturing NATO allies about spending more on defense rather than offering reassurances of any sort; another version relayed to others by several White House aides is that Trumps nationalist chief strategist Steve Bannon and policy aide Stephen Miller played a role in the deletion. (According to NSC spokesman Michael Anton, who did not dispute this account, The president attended the summit to show his support for the NATO alliance, including Article 5. His continued effort to secure greater defense commitments from other nations is making our alliance stronger.)
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Biden: [link=https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/451733-biden-there-will-be-no-nato-if-trump-is-reelected]There will be ‘no NATO’ if Trump is reelected[/link]
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Quote from dergon
Biden: [link=https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/451733-biden-there-will-be-no-nato-if-trump-is-reelected]There will be ‘no NATO’ if Trump is reelected[/link]
NATO is now stronger than when Trump took office. A number of countries are finally funding it at the agreed to level.
Biden is losing his already limited mental capacities.
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Russia is definitely happy
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[link=https://www.businessinsider.com/biden-reassures-allies-trump-era-over-takes-swipes-china-russia-2021-2]https://www.businessinsid…es-china-russia-2021-2[/link]
[h1]Biden reassures US allies the Trump era is over while taking swipes at China and Russia[/h1]
( another head I saw was [b]Biden ditches ‘America First’ for ‘America’s Back!'[/b])“Let me erase any lingering doubt: the United States will work closely with our European partners. I know the last few years have tested our transatlantic relationship. But the United States is determined determined to reengage with Europe, to consult with you, to earn back our position of leadership.”
Biden took a starkly different tone from former President Donald Trump during his remarks, especially on the NATO alliance and Russia.“We cannot allow self-doubt to hinder our ability to engage each other or the larger world. The last four years have been hard, but Europe and the US have to lead with confidence once more,” Biden said. “I know we can do this.”
“Putin seeks to weaken the European project and our NATO alliance. He wants to undermine the transatlantic unity and our resolve. Because it’s so much easier for the Kremlin to bully and threaten individual states then it is to negotiate with a strong and closely united transatlantic community,” Biden said.
[/QUOTE][link=https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1362809295625195523?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1362809295625195523%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.businessinsider.com%2Fbiden-reassures-allies-trump-era-over-takes-swipes-china-russia-2021-2]https://twitter.com/CBSNe…es-china-russia-2021-2[/link]
President Biden tells U.S. allies they must unite together against Russia's aggressions: "Putin seeks to weaken the European project and our NATO alliance...because it's so much easier for the Kremlin to bully and threaten individual states" https://t.co/H7Agd87e2A pic.twitter.com/7VT5MQmmkj
— CBS News (@CBSNews) February 19, 2021
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[link=https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-05-24/ryanair-hijack-belarus-throws-down-the-gauntlet-to-the-west?srnd=premium]Belarus Throws Down the Gauntlet to the West[/link][/h3]
Interesting developments in europe. Belarus hijacks a European flight forcing a landing in Minsk so that they can detain an opposition leader.
EU response seems to be coming fast for once.
Maybe this can help spark the alliance a bit ahead of Biden’s coming trip.
Lukashenko has been fighting for the survival of his Soviet-lite regime since last August, when [link=https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-08-09/belarus-votes-in-presidential-election-as-ruler-seeks-sixth-term]implausible claims of yet another landslide[/link] election victory his sixth triggered [link=https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-08-09/belarus-votes-in-presidential-election-as-ruler-seeks-sixth-term]mass street protests[/link]. Demonstrations and strikes were met with a violent crackdown and arrests. Thanks partly to Moscows backing, the former collective-farm boss has managed to hang on regardless, and is still silencing adversaries and tightening his grip. Last week the popular Belarusian news site Tut.by went offline, and authorities opened a criminal case against it, alleging tax evasion.
Nevertheless, forcing down a Ryanair passenger jet travelling between two NATO nations (Greece and Lithuania) to remove a dissident is a dramatic escalation. If Russian President Vladimir Putin [link=https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-05-04/in-russia-ukraine-conflict-putin-s-posturing-tests-western-resolve]was testing[/link] U.S. counterpart Joe Biden with his [link=https://www.wsj.com/articles/satellite-images-show-russias-expanding-ukraine-buildup-11618917238]military buildup[/link] on the border with Ukraine in April, Belarus is going much further. European nations and the U.S. have demanded explanations over Sundays forced landing. Theyre unlikely to get them, and Brussels must use this weeks leaders [link=https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/meetings/european-council/2021/05/24-25/]summit[/link] to make a swift and robust reply to such a direct challenge.
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None of this is without complication. For example, theres the thorny question of how to separate Belarus from sanctions on Russia, without whose support Minsks outrageous actions probably wouldnt be feasible. Indeed, tougher measures may speed up a Moscow takeover of Belarus by stealth, although thats unlikely to appeal to Minsk so fear of this outcome shouldnt hold back Brussels or Washington. Positive measures like support for independent media and civil society in Belarus would help.-
start flying planes with escorts, shutdown all travel to Belarus, or just fly around it.
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European leaders on Monday agreed to significantly toughen sanctions on Belarus and to bar European Union airlines from flying over the countrys airspace, dealing a potentially crushing blow to the economy, a day after Belarusian authorities forced down a civilian jet and pulled off a dissident journalist, the Washington Post reports.
The measures, backed by all 27 E.U. leaders, were an unusually fast and powerful response to the brazen move by Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko, who on Sunday sent a MiG-29 fighter jet to snatch a Ryanair plane out of the sky as it was flying from Athens to Vilnius, Lithuania, and arrest one of its passengers, Roman Protasevich, the founder of an opposition media outlet.
New York Times: There was no indication, however, that the intensified squeeze would alter Mr. Lukashenkos resolve especially with President Vladimir Putin of Russia steadfast in his support.
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Putin shrugged:
It is shocking that the West calls the incident in Belarusian airspace shocking.
Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova, quoted by the [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/05/24/belarus-flight-evo-morales-sndowden-russia/]Washington Post[/link].
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[h1][b]Lukashenko Threatens to Flood Europe with Drugs and Migrants[/b][/h1]
President Lukashenko of Belarus has threatened to allow migrants and drugs to pour into western Europe if sanctions are imposed on his regime for the forced landing of a Ryanair flight, the [link=https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lukashenko-willing-to-flood-eu-with-drugs-and-migrants-to-stop-new-sanctions-vtrwndw82]Times of London[/link] reports.
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so how’s this work now? Don’t they need to smack the bully in his mouth.
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
so how’s this work now? Don’t they need to smack the bully in his mouth.
Well, they can isolate Belarus with sanctions, travel bans, no fly orders.
That probably makes Putin smile because it forces Lukashenko to be even more dependent on Russia to stay in power. -
Quote from dergon
Quote from DICOM_Dan
so how’s this work now? Don’t they need to smack the bully in his mouth.
Well, they can isolate Belarus with sanctions, travel bans, no fly orders.
That probably makes Putin smile because it forces Lukashenko to be even more dependent on Russia to stay in power.
I was thinking that too. That just makes Belarus more likely to be infolded into Russia. -
[link=https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/nato-restricts-belarusian-access-hq-stoltenberg-says-2021-05-31/]https://www.reuters.com/w…nberg-says-2021-05-31/[/link]
NATO restricts Belarusian access to HQ[/h1]Belarus is not a member of NATO but has had ties with the military alliance since 1992 following the fall of the Soviet Union, and has maintained a diplomatic mission to NATO since 1998.
Belarusian personnel can attend seminars and meetings at NATO and in NATO countries as part of a cooperation partnership that tackles issues such as arms control and military education.
“We have decided to restrict the access of Belarusian personnel to the NATO headquarters,” Stoltenberg told a news conference ahead of meetings of NATO defence and foreign ministers on Tuesday, without giving more details. -
The US begins to recover from the Trump “America alone” doctrine ….
[link=https://news.gallup.com/poll/355979/ratings-record-low-trump-exits-rally-biden.aspx]Gallup poll[/link]
[h1][b]U.S. Leadership Approval Rebounds from Trump Low[/b][/h1]
Six months into Joe Biden’s presidency, approval ratings of U.S. leadership around the world had largely rebounded from the record-low ratings observed during the Trump administration.
A [link=https://www.gallup.com/analytics/355787/gallup-rating-world-leaders-report.aspx]new Gallup report[/link] shows that as of early August 2021, across 46 countries and territories, median approval of U.S. leadership stood at 49%. This rating is up from the 30% median approval at the end of Donald Trump’s presidency and matches the rating during former President Barack Obama’s first year in office in 2009.
However, while the 49% median approval rating for U.S. leadership so far under Biden compares favorably with ratings during the Obama administration, the 36% disapproval rating is also higher than any of those under Obama. Still, disapproval under Biden is seven percentage points lower than the final disapproval rating under Trump — a record-high 44%.
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[b][link=https://www.thebulwark.com/what-nato-should-do-now-putin-russia-ukraine/]What NATO Should Do Now
[/link][/b]
Now is the time for NATO to reaffirm its Article 5 commitments. Its core obligation is to defend its members. As a key aspect in maintaining peaceful relations with non-member neighbors, it also has taken on the important duty of supporting its partners bordering Russia, notably including Finland and Sweden, in part by keeping the door to membership open. As in 2008, when Russia invaded Georgia, NATO must do whatever it can to stop Russian aggression, express support and solidarity with its allies and partners on the front line, and, in the long term, roll back Russian gains.
Beyond its member states, NATO should continue to provide military equipment and humanitarian support to those fighting against Russian domination and to ensure NATOs eastern flank remains solidly defended.…
NATO should also reaffirm its open door to those nations that meet the its established criteria. This would of course include countries such as Sweden and Finland, now the subject of explicit threats the Russian government. Some will argue that, by proffering theoretical future membership, NATO is setting these nations up to be attacked by Moscow as Georgia and Ukraine were. But retreating from the open door policy because of Putins actions in Ukraine only rewards his naked aggression and dashes the hopes of millions who want to be part of the greater transatlantic community.
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[h1][b]After Attempted Ukraine Coup, U.S. Looks to NATO as Deterrent to Russian Aggression[/b][/h1]
[link=https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-looks-to-nato-to-deter-russian-aggression-as-ukraine-warns-of-possible-coup-11637962617?st=7lykcdx3s6fvzjn&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink]Wall Street Journal[/link]: The Biden administration plans to use a meeting of NATO foreign ministers to focus on how the alliance should respond to Russian military pressure on Ukraine as the Ukrainian president warned Friday of a possible Moscow-backed coup attempt.
The meeting, which is scheduled to begin on Tuesday, comes amid debate within the alliances ranks about how to be firm about the possibility of Russian aggression, as it masses troops near Ukraine, while keeping political channels open to Moscow.
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NATO bases in Ukraine?
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Russia Lays Out Demands for Security Deal With NATO-
Russia outlined on Friday its demands for a sweeping new security arrangement with the West in Eastern Europe, with the most far-reaching request a written guarantee that NATO will not expand farther east toward Russia and will end all military activity in Ukraine and elsewhere in Eastern Europe, Central Asia and the Caucasus, the New York Times reports.
The Russians also said they wanted NATO to remove all military infrastructure installed in Eastern Europe after 1997 demands that analysts said seemed unacceptable to the West.
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[h1]Putins Ukraine Quagmire[/h1] [b]Russian President Vladimir Putin has sought to throw the United States and its NATO allies off balance by mobilizing Russian troops on Ukraines border. But this manufactured crisis is likely to leave Russia facing new sanctions, a stronger NATO, and a neighbor whose people have developed a more separate, anti-Russian identity.[/b]
[link=https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/putin-underestimates-west-over-ukraine-by-richard-haass-2022-02]Richard Haass[/link]:
{W}hile Putin manufactured the Ukraine crisis believing he held a clear advantage vis-à-vis the West, he committed an error that can prove dangerous even for a skilled martial-arts practitioner: he underestimated his opponent.
While [link=https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/08/russia-talks-of-rapid-ukraine-discussions-after-biden-putin-summit]Biden[/link] and [link=https://www.reuters.com/world/nato-chief-says-no-plans-send-combat-troops-ukraine-if-russia-invades-2022-01-30/]NATO[/link] have said they will not intervene directly on behalf of Ukraine, this is not the same as accepting Russian dominance. In fact, the US has organized a comprehensive response. It has [link=https://www.euronews.com/2022/01/22/us-sends-first-shipment-of-military-aid-to-ukraine-amid-standoff-with-russia]sent arms[/link] to Ukraine to increase the costs to Russia of any invasion and occupation. There are plans to fortify NATO member countries closest to Russia. Substantial economic sanctions are being prepared. And [link=https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/exclusive-us-talks-energy-firms-over-eu-gas-supply-case-russia-ukraine-conflict-2022-01-15/]rerouting gas to Europe[/link] would partly offset the possible loss of Russian supplies.
All of which is to say that Putins initial thrust failed to score a decisive blow. Those who say that Russias president has the West where he wants it have things backwards. Putin has placed himself in an unenviable position: he must either escalate or find a face-saving way to back down.
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No one has done more to create greater cohesion and meaning for NATO than Vladimir Putin ~Tom Nichols
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The statement remains as accurate if Trump and Democrats replace Putin and NATO.
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[h1][b]Trump Planned to Pull Out of NATO in Second Term[/b][/h1]
An [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/07/13/book-excerpt-i-alone-can-fix-it/]excerpt[/link] from [link=https://amzn.to/3vk1Wdb][i]I Alone Can Fix It[/i][/link] by Carol Leonnig and Philip Rucker suggests what might have been:
In fact, Trump had privately indicated that he would seek to withdraw from NATO and to blow up the U.S. alliance with South Korea, should he win reelection. When those alliances had come up in meetings with Esper and other top aides, some advisers warned Trump that shredding them before the election would be politically dangerous.
Said Trump: Yeah, the second term. Well do it in the second term.
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Its OK dergon. You can sit back and enjoy the show now. Trump has succeeded in ripping the GOP into pieces.
He would have done much worse. We know.
Time to ignore the troll.
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I dont’ sense that the Congress would’ve allowed it. In fact I think they overwhelmingly shut him down
[link=https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2019/01/25/heres-why-22-republicans-voted-against-blocking-trump-from-nato-pullout/]https://www.defensenews.c…ump-from-nato-pullout/[/link]
The [link=http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2019/roll044.xml]357-22 vote[/link] to bar the use of federal funds to withdraw from NATO was decisive and bipartisan, but could also be read as an important bellwether for how far Trump, who has sent [link=https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2019/01/17/trump-says-us-backs-nato-100-after-report-he-discussed-withdrawal/]mixed signals[/link] about his commitment to the pact, can sway members away from GOP orthodoxy.-
Quote from DICOM_Dan
I dont’ sense that the Congress would’ve allowed it. In fact I think they overwhelmingly shut him down
[link=https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2019/01/25/heres-why-22-republicans-voted-against-blocking-trump-from-nato-pullout/]https://www.defensenews.c…ump-from-nato-pullout/[/link]
The [link=http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2019/roll044.xml]357-22 vote[/link] to bar the use of federal funds to withdraw from NATO was decisive and bipartisan, but could also be read as an important bellwether for how far Trump, who has sent [link=https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2019/01/17/trump-says-us-backs-nato-100-after-report-he-discussed-withdrawal/]mixed signals[/link] about his commitment to the pact, can sway members away from GOP orthodoxy.
We saw just how well congressional blocking of funds worked to prevent Trump from taking other actions …
He just repurposed military funds from other projects and gave congress the middle finger while the courts slow played whether he could do it or not.-
Still at it? Trump doesn’t need your help anymore.
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[link=https://www.axios.com/nato-kremlin-russian-invasion-ukraine-0872be5e-b5e0-486b-b356-2985370e5148.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_content=politics-russiaukraine]https://www.axios.com/nat…politics-russiaukraine[/link]
[h1][b]NATO Response Force Activated for First Time[/b][/h1]
[b]For the first time ever, the NATO Response Force has been activated as a defensive measure in response to Russias ongoing invasion of Ukraine.[/b]
NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg announced Friday that the alliance has activated elements of the 40,000-troop NATO Response Force (NRF) for the first time, warning at a press conference: “The Kremlin’s objectives are not limited to Ukraine.”
He added that eastern-flank allies “are extremely concerned. They are close to the fighting in Ukraine, and they also border Russia, and they’ve seen not only the military buildup and the ongoing war in Ukraine, but also seen the very threatening rhetoric because this goes far beyond Ukraine.”“Russia’s attack on Ukraine is more than an attack on Ukraine. It’s a devastating horrendous attack on innocent people in Ukraine, but it’s also an attack on the whole European security order. And that’s the reason why we take it so extremely seriously,” Stoltenberg said.
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[h1][b]Russia Warns Finland and Sweden on NATO[/b][/h1]
The Russian foreign ministry warned that if Finland or Sweden joins NATO, they would face serious military and political consequences, the [link=https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60517447?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=6218fffd0ce87e491a0ed01e%26Finland%20or%20Sweden%20joining%20Nato%20would%20spark%20Russian%20response%20-%20Moscow%20warns%262022-02-25T16%3A20%3A20.876Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:fc1b0df6-7bc3-4be5-95c0-087b13bac2d1&pinned_post_asset_id=6218fffd0ce87e491a0ed01e&pinned_post_type=share]BBC[/link] reports.
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Nothing like a little incentive to reinvigorate NATO as Sweden & Finland consider holding up a middle finger salute to Vlad as he verifies all the reasons for NATO being organized in the 1st place and encouraging countries to join NATO.
Ah, good that Vlad reminds the world of the good old days of the Iron Curtain & the KGB.
A 1 man team to unify Europe. Boris J & Donald wanted to break up Europe & Vlad is unifying it.
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Yes Frumi. Unifying is the key word.
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[b]Germany to Raise Defense Spending Above 2% of GDP[/b]
[link=https://www.wsj.com/articles/germany-to-raise-defense-spending-above-2-of-gdp-11645959425]Wall Street Journal[/link]:
Germany will boost military spending above 2% of GDP and create a strategic natural-gas reserve, Chancellor Olaf Scholz said Sunday, marking a significant shift in the countrys defense and energy policies in reaction to Russias war in Ukraine.
The measures, all of which had long been resisted by successive governments and will now be reflected in this years budget, underline how profoundly Russias attack on Ukraine is upending European politics after almost eight decades of nearly uninterrupted peace on the continent.-
Trump will be ecstatic as Germany will pay more for his brand of the American “protection” racket; at least how Trump understands things.
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Putin is doing for NATO what no western leader has been able to do for over 50 years.
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Quote from dergon
Putin is doing for NATO what no western leader has been able to do for over 50 years.
NATO and global democracy.
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Quote from Frumious
Trump will be ecstatic as Germany will pay more for his brand of the American “protection” racket; at least how Trump understands things.
Is this still about Trump for you?
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[link=https://www.axios.com/eu-weapons-ukraine-russia-invasion-331bfcbc-5193-47b0-8afb-03f194d95619.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_content=world-russiaukraine]https://www.axios.com/eu-…nt=world-russiaukraine[/link]
[h1][b]EU to purchase and deliver weapons to Ukraine in historic first[/b][/h1]
Longstanding policy taboos are falling across the EU because of Vladimir Putin’s unprovoked assault on Ukraine. The new weapons program, which will be funded through the [link=https://ec.europa.eu/fpi/what-we-do/european-peace-facility_en]European Peace Facility[/link], was announced Sunday alongside [link=https://www.axios.com/eu-ban-russia-aircraft-370db436-7502-4a6a-b37a-3cff5abc64cd.html]new sanctions[/link] on Russian aircraft, state media and the Belarus economy.
[b] [/b]”I will today propose to use the European Peace Facility for two emergency assistance measures to finance the supply of lethal material to the Ukrainian army, as well as urgently needed fuel, protective equipment and medical supplies,” Europe’s foreign policy chief Josep Borrell announced.
“President Zelensky’s leadership and his bravery, and the resilience of the Ukrainian people, are outstanding and impressive. They are an inspiration for all of us,” said European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, calling the new policy a “watershed moment.”
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Quote from dergon
[link=https://www.axios.com/eu-weapons-ukraine-russia-invasion-331bfcbc-5193-47b0-8afb-03f194d95619.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_content=world-russiaukraine]https://www.axios.com/eu-…nt=world-russiaukraine[/link]
[h1][b]EU to purchase and deliver weapons to Ukraine in historic first[/b][/h1]
Longstanding policy taboos are falling across the EU because of Vladimir Putin’s unprovoked assault on Ukraine. The new weapons program, which will be funded through the [link=https://ec.europa.eu/fpi/what-we-do/european-peace-facility_en]European Peace Facility[/link], was announced Sunday alongside [link=https://www.axios.com/eu-ban-russia-aircraft-370db436-7502-4a6a-b37a-3cff5abc64cd.html]new sanctions[/link] on Russian aircraft, state media and the Belarus economy.A day late and a dollar short.
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dupe
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This noose should be hung around the GOP neck. It was just a couple years ago Trump tried to extort the Ukrainians with the weapon sale.
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
This noose should be hung around the GOP neck. It was just a couple years ago Trump tried to extort the Ukrainians with the weapon sale.
I welcome any reasonable Republican who wants to now pivot away from autocrats and wants to join in the support global and domestic liberal democracy.
Come on in. [i]Real[/i] patriotism feels good. A lot better than the freedom cosplay of saving America from masks, transgender kids, and Big Bird while carrying 4 rifles to the Starbucks.
(That said, it would not disappoint me at all if the worst of the Putin bootlick offenders in the GOP and right-wing media saw a drop in support and loss of platform)
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[h3][link=https://www.cleveland.com/news/2022/02/us-sen-rob-portman-urges-nato-membership-for-ukraine-in-meet-the-press-appearance.html]US Sen. Rob Portman urges NATO membership for Ukraine[/link][/h3]
(He also is talking about bringing in Georgia and Finland)
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And those nations at the eastern edge of NATO suddenly a lot more welcoming of US presence ….
[link=https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/poland-lobby-permanent-rotational-us-troop-increase-2022-02-03/] Poland to lobby for permanent rotational US troop increase[/h3] [/link]
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DCD and dergon. Its happening. I told you it would.
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Putin is a unifying figure. Thankfully the vast majority against. We are all enjoying watch those who hitched their wagon implode.
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[h1]Finland Parliament to Debate NATO Membership[/h1]
Finlands Parliament is meeting Tuesday to discuss a petition calling for a vote on NATO membership, a move that comes amid a dramatic shift in public sentiment, the [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/01/russia-ukraine-war-putin-news/#link-WRYPYXF5LZAQBE4KROODCIF7JE]Washington Post[/link] reports.
Finland, which shares a long border with Russia, is a close NATO partner but not a member. Support for formally joining the military alliance has been low until now.
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Quote from dergon
[h1]Finland Parliament to Debate NATO Membership[/h1]
Finlands Parliament is meeting Tuesday to discuss a petition calling for a vote on NATO membership, a move that comes amid a dramatic shift in public sentiment, the [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/01/russia-ukraine-war-putin-news/#link-WRYPYXF5LZAQBE4KROODCIF7JE]Washington Post[/link] reports.Finland, which shares a long border with Russia, is a close NATO partner but not a member. Support for formally joining the military alliance has been low until now.
Reminds me of the folks who ran out to buy a shotgun when the civil unrest started to spill out from Minneapolis in 2020.
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[h1]Europes Sleeping Giant Awakens[/h1]
[link=https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2022/03/germany-putin-ukraine-invasion/623322/]The Atlantic[/link]: Scholz announced that Germany would end its dependence on Russian gas, spend an additional 100 billion euros on its military, and deliver hundreds of anti-tank weapons and Stinger missiles to Ukraine in order to help its overmatched military counter Russias all-out assault. Germany may also be forced to extend the life of its nuclear plants to fill the energy gap created by the halt to Russian gas supplies.
Each one of these decisions represents something of an earthquake. Taken together, they are a political cataclysm that no one saw comingnot from a novice chancellor known for his caution, not from a coalition of German parties with pacifist roots, and certainly not from a government led by the Social Democrats, with their history of close ties to Russia.
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[b]In one week of war, Russias invasion of Ukraine may have veered history in a new direction[/b]In one week of war, life within the boundaries of Ukraine has been upended, but the brutal assault Russian President Vladimir Putin launched last Thursday has also reverberated around the globe, steering history in a new direction and switching up 75 years of relations among some of the worlds most powerful and wealthy countries.
[link=https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/redirect-to/?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fnation%2F2022%2F03%2F02%2Fone-week-of-war-in-ukraine%2F%3Futm_campaign%3Dwp_post_most%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dnewsletter%26wpisrc%3Dnl_most%26carta-url%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fs2.washingtonpost.com%252Fcar-ln-tr%252F36369b4%252F6220f2639d2fda34e7b7b86e%252F598b12abade4e2651407f8c3%252F10%252F74%252F6220f2639d2fda34e7b7b86e]https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio…2fda34e7b7b86e[/link]
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Blinken: NATO looking at more permanent troop deployments in Baltic region
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Trump sees the real threat . Germany
[link=https://twitter.com/parkermolloy/status/1501683577570099204?s=21]https://twitter.com/parke…01683577570099204?s=21[/link]
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The single thing you can count on is for Trump to take all sides to everything, often in the same speech & even sentence. This way any criticism at all can always be countered.
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And of course
Everyone is dumb but him and he would have always done sooooooo much better
All the guy did was mean tweet start internet fights and do Putins dirty work
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[link=https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/1503383614523813896]https://twitter.com/carlb…us/1503383614523813896[/link]
[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FN0XbRrVUAQlEq5?format=jpg&name=large[/img]
Now Finland support for entering NATO has surged to 62% in. And its simply unthinkable for Sweden to diverge from Finland in the policy change that is bound to come.
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not exactly NATO… but close enough
[link=https://thehill.com/policy/international/600107-envoy-says-us-seeks-to-ensure-putin-suffers-strategic-failure]https://thehill.com/polic…fers-strategic-failure[/link]
Envoy says US seeks to ensure Putin suffers ‘strategic failure’ [/h1]
I think the discussions that Ive been having with other ambassadors and permanent representatives here at the OSCE centers on the fact that this is a challenge to the world order, what Russia is doing, and that if Russia is not dealt a strategic failure, it will embolden other revanchist and aggressive countries to pursue similar aims, said Carpenter, who served as an adviser to Biden when he was vice president.
Future leaders are going to look back on this moment and realize what a horrendous mistake this was, Carpenter said in a phone interview from Vienna.
Carpenter was confirmed as ambassador to the OSCE in November. The U.S. is one of 57 participant states in the OSCE, which also includes Russia.
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