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Never pass the CORE?
What happens if you can’t pass the core exam, like even after 6 years, because it’s such a nonsense BS test that is completely irrelevant to the daily practice of radiology? Will I lose whatever job I have and then essentially have wasted my entire life because I can’t pass their damn test and no one will hire someone who isn’t certified?
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46 Replies
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Its only pass/fail. The passing bar is set so that you only need a minimal competence to pass. If you can function as a radiologist, you should be able to pass the test… not many have failed. Youll be fine.
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You’ll be fine. The bylaws allow for a lot of attempts and most groups don’t care b/c you’re not ‘board certified’ until the certifying exam is over. I know a few radiologists working (albeit at a lower income and deisrable locality) without having passed boards. Not the end of the world.
All that being said, get a tutor or something, make it happen.-
Quote from ar123
You’ll be fine. The bylaws allow for a lot of attempts and most groups don’t care b/c you’re not ‘board certified’ until the certifying exam is over. I know a few radiologists working (albeit at a lower income and deisrable locality) without having passed boards. Not the end of the world.
All that being said, get a tutor or something, make it happen.
Got one. Not sure how much difference it will make, trying to retain information that was never used once in clinical practice.
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Ask residents/fellows who came before you at your institution what resources worked best for them, since they likely had similar training. Try to do lots of questions, since this will help point out gaps in your knowledge. If your issue is retaining the information, try using flash cards.
The exam is a pain, but you can do it! Several years from now, this will just be a blip in a long career.
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Quote from hopefulradsfuture
Its only pass/fail. The passing bar is set so that you only need a minimal competence to pass. If you can function as a radiologist, you should be able to pass the test… not many have failed. Youll be fine.
You obviously have never taken the exam. It is NOT a minimal competence exam at all. Half the test is nonsense physics and NIS that are never used clinically. Lots of questions about things only techs see and do, never a radiologist. Extremely detailed minutia questions asking for exact diagnosis of what you would list as a differential in real life. I never had any trouble with a single test in my entire life until this one. 16% failed this past year, that number doesn’t seem trivial to me. Every attending I’ve worked with says I do great, but this test would have you think the exact opposite.
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bro..that exam is incredibly basic. im not excelling by any means but if you can’t pass the core exam with CTC, radprimer, and board vitals, you really should reconsider your profession. Excellence in minutae and nonsense may set you apart in the 80%+ percentile, but literally you need to get like 11th percentile to pass.
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Bro, you had to study for this very basic test? Do you do a residency?
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If you can’t pass the CORE, I don’t want you to be my colleague. It’s a pretty goddamn low bar, and there are tons of awful radiologists that have passed oral, written, CORE, what have you boards. I can’t imagine an actually good radiologist that can’t.
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Quote from nighthawker
If you can’t pass the CORE, I don’t want you to be my colleague. It’s a pretty goddamn low bar, and there are tons of awful radiologists that have passed oral, written, CORE, what have you boards. I can’t imagine an actually good radiologist that can’t.
On the contrary. There are plenty of good radiologists who stumble on the core.-
Quote from RadiologyTutor
On the contrary. There are plenty of good radiologists who stumble on the core.
The key word in your post was [i]stumble. [/i]Sure, stuff happens. If you pass it on the second try, no big deal.
However, if you are like Vinny in My Cousin Vinny and you need six tries to pass, that is an issue. If you haven’t past after six tries, that is a real big issue.
It is absolutely true that I would have no chance of passing the CORE if I had to take it tomorrow. I don’t think I could even pass a high school algebra final. But I am darn sure that I would pass after I put in the appropriate amount of study if I had to take it six months from now.
Despite the propaganda, the board certification process was never about the knowledge qua knowledge. In the same way that you probably forgot 90% of Step 1 a week after you took the test. The entire point is that if you cannot put in the effort and have the discipline to do the work to pass the test, and then successfully pass the test, then that indicates there are … issues.
Again, stuff happens. But look at all the ACGME residencies out there; there are some ones that are … not good, and their graduates take the test. There are some colleagues at your residency that you wouldn’t let read your grandmothers imaging. Now put the two together and you get to around 16%.
Again, the ABMS lied to you; despite what all of them tell you few practicing physicians would pass their specialty certification exams if they had to take them tomorrow. But that was never the point; we are not taking them tomorrow. Accept it.
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Quote from Rad9045874
What happens if you can’t pass the core exam, like even after 6 years, because it’s such a nonsense BS test that is completely irrelevant to the daily practice of radiology? Will I lose whatever job I have and then essentially have wasted my entire life because I can’t pass their damn test and no one will hire someone who isn’t certified?
Failing to become board certified and aging out of board eligibility by not passing the exam for 6 years after completing your training isn’t the end of your career. But it isn’t a good thing either.
Some traditional groups have BC/BE as pre-requisite for making partner. So you might be limited to employee status.
Some hospital systems will not credential rads who are not BC/BE. That could put you in a tough situation as an employee if you can’t work everywhere you are needed and/or read studies from certain facilities.
And once you age out of board eligibility, potential future employees will view it as a red flag. In a good job market you’re still employable. In a bad job market that might get rough and force you to move/take an undesirable position/ or be unemployed for an extended period.
I know a guy locally whose group forced him to go back a complete a year of fellowship (which he did without pay) so that after 6 years he could refresh his eligibility.
___________
The bottom line: You want to be board certified. Like it or no, it is [b]the[/b] significant signifier of competency in your profession.
It is worth whatever investment you make in order to get it done so that you can avoid the career limitations of lack of board eligibility.
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Ive never heard of someone never passing. I know one person who failed twice and now has a choice job in southern CA. I dont think anyone cares as long as you eventually pass and get certified.
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Also as long as you are board certified I dont think anyone asks if you passed the core or not. They just want to know date or certification
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Its a reasonable test. Not perfect. Keep reading
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Thanks for the vote of confidence, hopefully you’re all right.
If you haven’t taken the test then I don’t think you can comment about its fairness/reasonableness. I would venture a guess that the majority of practicing radiologists would fail the test if they had to take it again. I only say that as a point that it has nothing to do with what radiologists do, I think practicing rads are great at what they do.-
See the OLA thread. Have not seen the new test. It is probably designed very poorly as a competency exam.
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If I could go back and take it again after practicing a few years (and studying again for a month), I honestly think I would do better.
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Do all the question banks available (radprimer, face the core qevlar, board vitals etc). Memorize radiology core and crack the core books. The crack the core book is probably enough for physics.
I have heard that exam questions in recent exams were made to be specifically different than in material in crack the core. Seems like a shady move IMO.
Good luck. It can be passed eventually.
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Quote from CE35B2CBAC728
Have you taken it and failed? It seemed like a fair test to me. Obviously it can’t mimic what radiologists do day in day out as a lot of what we do is measuring things on followup and other tasks even a monkey could do. But as far as a knowledge test I thought it was good and would hope that anyone who wants to be a practicing radiologist could pass it.
Yes, and agree to disagree.
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If the passing rate is with less than 75% of the questions correct and they must look at a bell curve to determine “passing”, it is a horrible certification exam. Bell curve tests are good for entrance type exams because one can potentially determine levels of aptitude that might allow those choosing to stratify strengths and likelihood of future success.
A certifying exam should be questions that every competent person can pass. That means the questions should be very easy for someone who has trained in the field but somewhat difficult for an outsider. One should be able to say someone is clearly not competent if they get even a couple of questions wrong. I mean things like not recognizing appendicitis, fracture or a brain infarct.
It does not sound to me like the core is such a test, even if most pass. Not surprised though. The board is made up of academic types that love to make up silly questions to prove how smart they are to their colleagues.-
Quote from Thread Enhancer
If the passing rate is with less than 75% of the questions correct and they must look at a bell curve to determine “passing”, it is a horrible certification exam. Bell curve tests are good for entrance type exams because one can potentially determine levels of aptitude that might allow those choosing to stratify strengths and likelihood of future success.
A certifying exam should be questions that every competent person can pass. That means the questions should be very easy for someone who has trained in the field but somewhat difficult for an outsider. One should be able to say someone is clearly not competent if they get even a couple of questions wrong. I mean things like not recognizing appendicitis, fracture or a brain infarct.
It does not sound to me like the core is such a test, even if most pass. Not surprised though. The board is made up of academic types that love to make up silly questions to prove how smart they are to their colleagues.
Absolutely, that’s exactly what’s going on. I’d say around 25-30% of the test is general competency and the rest is academic trivia.
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100 percent agree.
About 25-30 percent is material that any radiologist should know, but they try to test it using single images of questionable quality, or by showing classic cases of something on an alternative modality.
The rest is mostly physics and nuclear medicine trivia, or random factoids about obscure diseases.
If the goal is to establish minimum competency, it’s an abysmal test for that purpose. I know of great residents who have failed and many terrible residents/radiologists who have passed.
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Just like the old written boards, nothing is new and all the exam tests is the ability to memorize and the skill of exam taking.
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All I know is that I am so glad I never have to take another board exam in my life.
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Ah but now you must answer two of the same questions each week…
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I am on with that! Boards are stressful even if prepared. I answer those longitudinal assessment questions while chilling in PJs with a nice beverage.
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Certification exam and OLE are so much easier than core. Probably has to do with breadth and amount of material you have to know.
That said, the curve is extremely generous for the core. Study hard, pass it, and move on. Answering your question, our practice requires every radiologist to be board certified if they want to become a partner. Not sure if it really gets the job done, but it’s the quality control barrier we have imposed. Plenty of non-partner radiologists are around in our group and outside of our group however, who are happy to work as locum or associates and not bother with stuff partners have to deal with (but with less pay). -
I believe that the VA will hire you without passing the core
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Hopefully can pass it this time and not have to deal with long-term repercussions. Thanks for all the input!
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I took it and passed it. The exam has a 100% pass rate. Youll be fine.
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Quote from irfellowship2020
Also as long as you are board certified I dont think anyone asks if you passed the core or not. They just want to know date or certification
Dont you have to pass the core to be board certified?
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Quote from Rad9045874
What happens if you can’t pass the core exam, like even after 6 years, because it’s such a nonsense BS test that is completely irrelevant to the daily practice of radiology? Will I lose whatever job I have and then essentially have wasted my entire life because I can’t pass their damn test and no one will hire someone who isn’t certified?
There will always be a corporate home for you somewhere in the country….
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Quote from billbob35
There will always be a corporate home for you somewhere in the country….
I gotta pass this thing lol
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You will. Wish you best luck.
Do lots of questions. I recall the real thing being much easier than harder qbank such as face the core. And it felt like there was a huge, generous curve.
The certification exam, on the other hand was a joke. I studied several days with time off from work, and realized it was overkill. I actually felt like I knew what every single question of my chosen specialty was going for. Same for OLE, to a point if you miss a question, it would be anomaly.
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Are we talking about the Core exam or the initial certifying exam? People fail the Core but not the initial cert. Inability to pass the Core for 6 years would be a major problem. Initial cert is pretty easy, assuming you picked your sections correctly. I know one guy who failed the Core and he was, well, not great. It was a big problem in fellowship where he was supposed to be taking independent call. They made it work, but had to push all his call to the end of the year past the time he retook (and passed) the exam.
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Quote from Rad9045874
What happens if you can’t pass the core exam, like even after 6 years, because it’s such a nonsense BS test that is completely irrelevant to the daily practice of radiology? Will I lose whatever job I have and then essentially have wasted my entire life because I can’t pass their damn test and no one will hire someone who isn’t certified?
I flunked core twice. I was always a good test taker before that. It caused me no delay though and no problems afterward.
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Not passing the core at the time of residency/fellowship (as well as 6yrs later) will have the following issues to deal with:
1. Not passing early (i.e. residency/fellowship) will likely prevent you from getting hosp privileges as most hospital bylaws require board certification to get on staff. If you can’t get privileges you can’t do the work, so even the corporate guys won’t be able to employ you for this reason.
2. Many insurance carriers will not reimburse for nonBC physicians reading studies these days
3. if you can’t get completely BC in 6 yrs from the date of your residency graduation (which is what ABR uses for the 6 yr clock), you will have to repeat a year of residency training (which will likely not be funded)- all i can say is good luck if you have to face that daunting option.
4. Bottom line is- try and get completely BC as soon as possible at all costs as this is a headache you don’t want deal with once you start working-
Its impossible to be board certified after you finish fellowship due to the ABR, like many other specialties.
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Quote from ghostofosler
Its impossible to be board certified after you finish fellowship due to the ABR, like many other specialties.
That’s not true.
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Certifying exam is 15 months after residency. So cant be board certified before that time.
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Quote from ghostofosler
Certifying exam is 15 months after residency. So cant be board certified before that time.
oh nvm I misunderstood your post. Yes that’s true.
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Quote from ar123
Quote from ghostofosler
Its impossible to be board certified after you finish fellowship due to the ABR, like many other specialties.
That’s not true.
We aren’t able to sit for the certifying exam until 15 months after completion of residency. So that’s 3 months after finishing a 1 year fellowship. So far nearly all jobs I’ve seen say board eligible/certified. So assuming we finish residency in good standing we will be eligible for up to 6 years, but should hopefully pass both the CORE and certifying exams as soon as possible to not delay the certification process.
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Its a BS test with a mix of radiolgy minutiae, physics and non interpretative (gag!). I was in the second group to take it when no real good study guides even existed but not passing over 6 years is a red flag. I would not hire and it would not pass hospital credentialing.
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Quote from eaglebarrett
Not passing the core at the time of residency/fellowship (as well as 6yrs later) will have the following issues to deal with:
1. Not passing early (i.e. residency/fellowship) will likely prevent you from getting hosp privileges as most hospital bylaws require board certification to get on staff. If you can’t get privileges you can’t do the work, so even the corporate guys won’t be able to employ you for this reason.
2. Many insurance carriers will not reimburse for nonBC physicians reading studies these days
3. if you can’t get completely BC in 6 yrs from the date of your residency graduation (which is what ABR uses for the 6 yr clock), you will have to repeat a year of residency training (which will likely not be funded)- all i can say is good luck if you have to face that daunting option.
4. Bottom line is- try and get completely BC as soon as possible at all costs as this is a headache you don’t want deal with once you start working
You have to be ‘board eligible’, not board certified to get on staff at most places. Many other specialties the guys take boards after residency ends and start work before results come out. In radiology you are not board certified until after the certification exam anyways.
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