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Nanox CT imaging
Interesting IPO on 8/21.
[link=https://www.nanox.vision/]https://www.nanox.vision/[/link]
Out of Israel. Already have contracts for 3000 units to US in February and 1000 to Australia. Pending FDA approval.
Thoughts? -
645 Replies
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Removed due to GDPR request
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Looks like a cross between iPhone and CT … perhaps they are looking for a niche in the personal CT scanner option … I can see many patients exceeding the “1 scan per person per year” mantra that they are espousing! Hell .. we will get some patients who would prob hop on the table several times a day! The “Cloud based network of Radiologists supported by AI” = AI 99% … prob very few Radiologists … but if every person on planet got one scan per year … wow 6 billion scans that need to be read … bet the RVU per study goes waaaay down! So patient in Afghanistan or Mozambique gets their scan and they have cancer??? I guess they then get turfed to the robust cancer care network available in their country.
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They’ll put them in shopping malls like in the 90’s!
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Couldn’t find any sample images. Probably garbage.
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[image]https://assets-global.website-files.com/5e2915c09270593d3940faad/5e2915c0927059962240fb1a_Nanox%20Stakeholders.jpg[/image]
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‘radiology specialists provide’……
Pretty vague. One of the Advisory Board members is from USA RAD telerad company, another from the UWash CT dept.
Interesting. Radiation exposure risks ? reading protocols ‘from the cloud anywhere by anyone? quality? no contrast of course. Motion on that little table with that small circle disk over the top? Home section of the website show some interesting stuff, but no final images of live human beings…….will follow w/ interest….-
They say “Radiologists” in their video …
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This is a big fat FRAUD until proven otherwise. Slick website, impossible architecture, NO IMAGES, empty promises. I’ve emailed them and asked for images and details but get nothing in return.
Of course, the MBA’s will blindly invest in a polished turd that has AI stamped on it.-
I noticed that they are selling the “cloud based” storage and AI technology as well .. perhaps hardware is just a marketing hook to launch cloud based AI ? …
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Other on their board is from Gates fndtn.
Global…..imprint aligns w/ this.
Agree w/ above RE AI and ‘pie in the sky’.
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Does anyone know the equipment model and software used to produce this movie?
[link=https://www.istockphoto.com/video/angiography-testing-of-heart-vessels-monitor-with-medical-information-gm976947558-265640151]https://www.istockphoto.com/video/angiography-testing-of-heart-vessels-monitor-with-medical-information-gm976947558-265640151[/link]
Nanox used it on its 2019 website, but then removed the link to it from the front page.-
They like Getty images. There are probably some on here that would recognize the make and model. Regardless that is high resolution cine imaging that needs a high energy source and a high quality image intensifier. Does Nanox suggest they can do angiography with the Arc?
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As of July 2019 (since removed) they were saying on their webpage just above that video:
Nanox multi-spectral separation level allows for the elimination of iodine agents injections for cardiovascular contrast purposes, on site identification of aneurysms and multiple significant early detection enhancements vs. legacy systems.[/h2] [link=https://web.archive.org/web/20190702045718/https://www.nanox.vision/]https://web.archive.org/w…ps://www.nanox.vision/[/link]
But the prospectus says:
We believe our X-ray source technology can produce multi-spectral imaging from one X-ray source, which allows for variable energy levels to be controlled during one scan. With multi-spectral imaging, one source chip can be used for multiple types of scans, such as head-scans, abdomen, mammography and angiograms, involving both soft and hard tissues at variable densities, simultaneously. We believe this multi-spectral imaging could also be applied to real-time video imaging. The image below is a general illustration of the functionality and capability of multi-spectral imaging. (page 83)
[link=https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1795251/000114036120017084/nt10006151x8_f1.htm]https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1795251/000114036120017084/nt10006151x8_f1.htm[/link]
Quote from Thread Enhancer
Does Nanox suggest they can do angiography with the Arc?
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Elimination of contrast! Winning!
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Quote from Thread Enhancer
Elimination of contrast! Winning!
You didn’t know that all it takes is the ability to vary the energy of your x-rays and you can do non contrast angio ?
Oh, and it only costs $10,000 and you can do a scan a day on everyone in the world !! And their dog too !!
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Is anyone here familiar with Fuji FDX station? What do you think of this image – was it taken using a regular low-power source? S-value of 17063? Do you know what the image label says? What is the purpose of this testing strip on the left?
[image]https://i.ibb.co/x5zf2HS/t1rsz-from-nanox-website-front-page-5f6d2abcdd33fa55089c1b4c-imgaes-cropped-v1.png[/image]
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in 1950’s a pocket sized computer was inconceivable
just sayin…-
Quote from spongiform
in 1950’s a pocket sized computer was inconceivable
just sayin…We aren’t talking about the miniaturization/compartmentalization of technology. We’re talking about whether or not this is a suspect company a la the Theranos scam.
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it does sound fishy
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If it worked, there would be images available somewhere. Scam
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We’ve looked at this before..
[link=https://www.auntminnie.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=601344]https://www.auntminnie.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=601344[/link]
Again, I smell a big Theranos-style rat. The “ring” actually has an arc of 7 or 8 or so of their “filament” x-ray tubes. I suppose that with careful sequencing of the tubes and translation of the ring across the patient, the nanox.arc could produce some sort of tomographic images. Sort of like the old GE Hawkeye SPECT/CT that created really awful CT images.
I filled out the form on the website and asked for some images…which cannot be found ANYWHERE!
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I imagine the imagine quality will be useful to screen for >10 cm tumors, and confirm that patients have liver, brains, and hearts. Perhaps even screening for >5cm subdurals.
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Power supply? even w/ images pushed on the web, I would remain a skeptic, ‘fake AI rad news’ ?
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I’m not here to say it is going to work well, and certainly not a 128 Seimens scanner, but I certainly don’t think it is fake or the company is fake. They have secured multimilllion dollar contracts throughout the world. I seriously doubt co-investors are throwing these types of dollars at something without some validity. Just my $0.02.
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Quick web search. Definitely not a fake company. IPO is Aug 20 (this Thursday).
[link=https://seekingalpha.com/article/4369210-ipo-update-nano-x-imaging-seeks-100-million-u-s-ipo]https://seekingalpha.com/article/4369210-ipo-update-nano-x-imaging-seeks-100-million-u-s-ipo[/link]-
Their vision of “global cancer screening for the masses” just seems untenable and thus seems disingenuous to me … I am not saying they are fake company. .. just dubious of their intentions and overall strategic goal … I think they just want to sell a sh$t ton of medical scanners, Cloud space and AI …
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Theranos was a “real” company with over $1B in investments. But the product was a pure scam.
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Nano-X Imaging Ltd. (NNOX) debuted today at $18.00 share. Was at $21.74 +$3.74 (+20.78%) as of 3:42PM EDT and hit a $25.00 intraday high. Volume was ~9.5M shares.
NANO-X IMAGING LTD (“Nanox” or the “Company”), an innovative medical imaging technology company, announced today the pricing of its initial public offering of 9,178,744 ordinary shares at a price to the public of US$18 per share. The gross proceeds of the offering, before deducting underwriting discounts and commissions and other offering expenses payable by Nanox, are expected to be US$165.2 million. In addition, Nanox has granted the underwriters a 30-day option to purchase up to an additional 1,376,812 ordinary shares at the initial public offering price, less underwriting discounts and commissions. All of the shares are being offered by Nanox.
The shares are expected to begin trading on the Nasdaq Global Market under the ticker symbol “NNOX” on August 21, 2020. The offering is expected to close on August 25, 2020, subject to customary closing conditions.
Cantor Fitzgerald & Co., Oppenheimer & Co. Inc., Berenberg and CIBC Capital Markets are acting as joint book-runners. National Securities Corporation is acting as co-manager for the offering.
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It will slowly bleed to low teens, do a secondary offering, bleed to low single digits, do a 10 for 1 reverse split, bleed…secondary, RS….ive seen this show before…
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They don’t appear to have a functioning product. I submitted a request for information for a third time today. I’m not holding my breath.
Just goes to show the incredibly smart MBA’s and VC-types can be fooled.-
The Nano.X SEC filing:
[link=https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1795251/000114036120017084/nt10006151x8_f1.htm]https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1795251/000114036120017084/nt10006151x8_f1.htm[/link]
Over 160 pages of disclaimers. The key factors seem to be a “digital X-ray source” and utilization of the cloud. I need to read it in detail.
Summary from The Imaging Wire ([link=https://www.theimagingwire.com/2020/08/13/nanox-demystified-nps-intrusion-radiomics-crisis/]https://www.theimagingwire.com/2020/08/13/nanox-demystified-nps-intrusion-radiomics-crisis/[/link]_)
[blockquote] [b]Nanox Demystified
[/b]
Theres been plenty said and written about Nanox since it [link=https://www.theimagingwire.com/2019/06/20/nanoxs-big-goal-marketplace-101-the-prediction-bubble/]came on the scene[/link], but aside from impressive funding and plenty of disruption forecasts, the company has remained quite mysterious. That just changed with [link=https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1795251/000114036120017084/nt10006151x8_f1.htm]Nanoxs pre-IPO SEC filing[/link], which clarified many of those mysteries.
[ul][*][b]Nanox Tech [/b] Nanox will build its business around its X-ray source technology, which works like legacy X-ray analog cathodes, but has a range of advantages (lower costs, smaller size, lower voltage). The first Nanox.ARC imaging systems will be 3D tomosynthesis devices, positioned as CT replacements / alternatives. [/ul] [ul][*][b]Nanox Platform [/b] Nanoxs X-ray tech might be its foundation, but its strategy will rely on services delivered through the Nanox.CLOUD platform. This platform will support what Nanox envisions as an end-to-end medical imaging service (image repository, radiologist matching & review, AI diagnostics, billing, etc.) and will allow it to offer the devices through a medical screening as a service (MSaaS) structure. This will also require Nanox to form partnerships across the imaging process. [/ul] [ul][*][b]FDA Path [/b]Nanox submitted a FDA 510(k) application for a single-source version of the Nanox.ARC system in January 2020 and is currently performing FDA-requested tests that it will submit in Q3 2020. The company also plans to submit a 510(k) application for a multi-source Nanox.ARC system in Q4 2020, which they would take to market if its approved. [/ul] [ul][*][b]Commercialization [/b] If FDA approvals go as planned, Nanox will deploy its first Nanox.ARC systems in early 2021, targeting a 1k system installed base by the end of 2021 and 15k systems by 2024. That might seem ambitious, but Nanox believes that its low system costs and MSaaS model will give it growth opportunities in developing regions and disruption opportunities in developed regions. [/ul] [ul][*][b]Risks [/b] There was no shortage of potential challenges detailed in the risks section of Nanoxs SEC filing, but the main challenge is that Nanoxs disruption goals will require it to execute an unproven business model using an unproven technology that hasnt been approved by the FDA. Still, you cant disrupt an industry like medical imaging by sticking to whats already established. [/ul] [/blockquote]-
Deploying in 2021 and apparently no one can find a sample image of what it produces anywhere…
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Vimeo: [link]https://vimeo.com/393211389[/link]
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If it exists, it’s a bad version of dynaCT
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Probably not dissimilar. As near as I can tell, the whole thing is based on solid-state X-ray emitters of which there will be 11 in the ring:
[image]https://i.ibb.co/jvr9P4n/Screen-Shot-2020-08-24-at-8-56-33-AM.png[/image]
The ring translates across the gantry which I assume has solid-state detectors, and the image will probably be some sort of tomogram that I doubt seriously will look like a CT slice.
[image]https://i.ibb.co/7vBtBKD/Screen-Shot-2020-08-24-at-9-02-02-AM.png[/image]
The business model is one only a non-technical MBA/VC guy would love. Cheap scanner, cloud storage with “direction to proper radiologist” and of course, the two little letters that serve as little blue pills for these guys, A.I.
They are promising too much based on waaaaay too little infrastructure.-
Up 100% since IPO…
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The constant comparisons to cost and size of a regular CT scanner, when this thing is as mentioned, at best a crappy dynaCT, are ridiculous. Motley fool calling it the potential Tesla of healthtech, lol!
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Has anyone actually seen the images this thing produce yet?
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Nope. I’ve asked them three times to send me something. The next article on the semi-dormant DoctorDalai.com will be about this device with or without their input.
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NNOX up 20% today to $58.00……Gulp!!!
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[link=https://www.israel21c.org/israeli-firm-aims-to-disrupt-mammograms-and-other-x-rays/]https://www.israel21c.org…rams-and-other-x-rays/[/link]
So much wrong with everything this CEO is saying
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Quote from namerad
[link=https://www.israel21c.org/israeli-firm-aims-to-disrupt-mammograms-and-other-x-rays/]https://www.israel21c.org…rams-and-other-x-rays/[/link]
So much wrong with everything this CEO is saying
So suspect….this has Theranos written all over it. -
The propaganda arm of this company is on Twitter making claims that this is a substitute for mammography and MRI.
Its hard to watch this company steal from investors.
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People keep saying it can do no-squish mammography. Its kind of painful to read
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NNOX now at $62.00, up 28% on the day and 200% since it debuted <1 month ago.
Double gulp!!! -
They don’t have FDA approval. They claim to have working prototypes.
The CEO has a somewhat shady background. OTOH, if it works and if they get FDA approval I believe it’s going to revolutionize radiology.
They’re going to do a live demonstration at Radiology Society of North America (RSNA) 2020
[link=http://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2020/10/01/2102565/0/en/Nanox-Announces-Live-Demonstration-of-its-Nanox-ARC-System-at-Radiology-Society-of-North-America-RSNA-2020.html]http://www.globenewswire….America-RSNA-2020.html[/link]
I believe the RSNA conference will make or break them.
from their website
[image]https://assets-global.website-files.com/5e2915c09270593d3940faad/5f6d219b6421fb617fcf0e74_Hands.png[/image]
[image]https://assets-global.website-files.com/5e2915c09270593d3940faad/5f6d22c8193a52cc6027a3f4_Foot.png[/image]
[image]https://assets-global.website-files.com/5e2915c09270593d3940faad/5f6d22df038cd01944cfd83a_Leg.png[/image] -
You’ve been reading the Twitter threads, and swallowing them whole.
Since clearly you are totally new to the world of Radiology, let me clue you in on one very important factor: RSNA is VIRTUAL this year, thanks to SARS-CoV-2. Nanox will be showing a VIDEO and they can show you whatever they want you to see, and they will NOT show you what they do NOT want you to see. The images you have copied from their propaganda were taken of a phantom (cadaver bones encased in lucite) at Hadassah Medical Center in Jerusalem at the end of 2019. Phantoms DON’T MOVE and can yield an image from a VERY LONG exposure.
THIS SMELLS LIKE A SCAM to anyone and everyone in the field. Frankly, I wish it wasn’t. Having dabbled minimally in global-health issues, a cheap scanner that can do everything this thing is supposed to be able to do (but CAN’T, we all promise you) would be very helpful. It might come someday. This is NOT IT.
But go ahead and invest…you don’t really care what we say if you are like the other rabid investors I’ve encountered on Twitter. -
I assumed NNOX would be demonstrating their machine live not a video recording. Thanks for the heads up re: RSNA being virtual this year. -
Administrator? I’m anything BUT an administrator. Please tell us why you think my message was from an “administrator”.
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Is there a way I can short this?
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buy puts or write calls. I wouldn’t do it though. They are heavily motivated to keep the scam going (longer than your investment can stay solvent). RSNA will show something and their investors will go wild. Then they may get approval for some xray source and their investors will go wild. They have lots of levers to pull.
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Quote from b17b2e
buy puts or write calls. I wouldn’t do it though. They are heavily motivated to keep the scam going (longer than your investment can stay solvent). RSNA will show something and their investors will go wild. Then they may get approval for some xray source and their investors will go wild. They have lots of levers to pull.
This. I mentioned earlier how a friend was able to borrow the stock for a short position a few weeks back. He was originally short @$55. Covered 80% in the low 30s. He then saw the continued decline and picked up a position in the mid 20s despite my telling him there was plenty of “news” that could be used to pump this thing to the moon. I’m sure he’s regretting that move. IMO the time to short would be right after the FDA approval when the irrational exuberance sets in. Still even if this thing goes to zero at some point, and it likely will, it’s too easy to get squeezed along the way. -
I’m a new member not familiar w/ the forum. I was replying to your messages from my email acct not the forum.
Now I know. Thanks -
Going to wait a little longer, then speculate by borrowing some shares to short.
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Does anyone have experience with this equipment, used in interventional radiology, from what I can tell. I have the specs, but I am looking for anecdotes. Cost is less than $2 million, from public quotes I have seen (due to the detectors and processing, not the tube or motors, of course). RoleCall mentioned dynaCT (Siemens), but the equipment is also known as:
C-arm CT
Cone-beam CT
Volumetric CT
Rotational CT
Rotational angiography
Flat-panel volume CT
, and also known as XperCT[Philips] / 3D imaging[Toshiba] / Innova CT HD[GE Healthcare].
[link=https://www.siemens-healthineers.com/en-us/angio/options-and-upgrades/clinical-software-applications/syngo-dynact]https://www.siemens-healt…lications/syngo-dynact[/link]
[link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOoErthM3w4&feature=youtu.be]https://www.youtube.com/w…4&feature=youtu.be[/link]
[image]https://pbs.twimg.com/ext_tw_video_thumb/976906424629395456/pu/img/MtU8iulcED5MLrC8.jpg[/image]
I think with a lot of work and luck, Nanox may be able to release a somewhat competitive stationary device that costs only $10,000,000 and takes only 6 years for FDA approval.
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Of course you can speculate on the stock price, some people got rich on Theranos; some not. Sell before the scam is up.
I of course believe in progress, and am confident in the iterative improvement of ct technology.
But this is too similar to Theranos; too much of a leap to believe; a magic black box.
Wouldn’t invest in it seriously until I could see it work real time.
Dali’s insights are on the mark. -
So they are a company that can do all the various types of imaging with a revolutionary new machine.
Remember that company that could test for all of the various diseases with a single drop of blood and their revolutionary new machine…They are literally taking a page right out of Elizabeth Holmes’ play book.-
Poliakine says Nanox could reduce the time needed to complete a mammogram by a factor of 30. And the system does not require pressing the breasts between two plates.
That means much less radiation, no discomfort or pain, shorter wait times and a product that is more user friendly, he says.
No compression literally means the opposite of less radiation.
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NNOX now at $62, up 28% on the day, almost 200% since it debuted < a month ago….. double Gulp!!!
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Quote from RISPACS Guy
NNOX now at $62, up 28% on the day, almost 200% since it debuted < a month ago….. double Gulp!!!
These kind of parabolic moves based on hype usually dont end well. I wouldnt be shocked if they did another offering before the end of the year to take advantage of the momentum and hype.
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Quote from namerad
Poliakine says Nanox could reduce the time needed to complete a mammogram by a factor of 30. And the system does not require pressing the breasts between two plates.
That means much less radiation, no discomfort or pain, shorter wait times and a product that is more user friendly, he says.
No compression literally means the opposite of less radiation.
That is exactly what I thought … lots of superlatives in this article … sounds more like a press release than a legit news article.
The CEO is a “serial entrepreneur” … what is that? Someone who dabbles in everything? Wonder if he understands the physics of what he is selling?-
Heres another gem from the CEO:
Most, if not all, cancers can be treated rather easily if found early enough through medical imaging. The World Health Organization says if every person had a full-body scan once a year, potentially millions could be saved by early detection, Poliakine tells ISRAEL21c.
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So short it now, or later
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This is obviously BS. They will be claiming they can treat tumors will this machine before long. That being said, they are playing a dangerous game if they are lying. The SEC and FDA won’t be too happy with them if they are lying to everyone…
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So far the claims are:
It can do all forms of imaging for a fraction of the price, will have ground breaking AI tech which doesnt yet exist, and also is apparently able to bend the laws of physics.-
it can also image to the molecular level so you don’t need a pathologist anymore. Think “tricorder” from star trek
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Quote from FlyNavy
The CEO is a “serial entrepreneur” … what is that? Someone who dabbles in everything? Wonder if he understands the physics of what he is selling?
The last ‘serial enterpreneur’ I met is currently in month 65 of a 96 month federal sentence 🙂 He is a nice guy, but it turns out that some of his enterprises involved an activity the feds call ‘destroy property used in interstate commerce by means of fire or explosion’.
Think about ‘the producers’ (the musical). You come up with a harebrained business idea that sounds great to investors, collect a lot of money and pay yourself a management fee out of the proceeds. You hire a revolving cast of ‘chief innovation officer’, ‘chief technology officer’ and ‘chief counsel’, rent a floor of office space in DumBo and get to work eating your investors money. Lasts about 2 years. You move on to the next innovation and money collecting scheme and ‘sell’ the shares you still hold in the company. The day you leave, your sycopants release guidance to the investors that ‘market conditions were not favorable to the product’ and the place folds in short order. I am fascinated by how many times you can recycle that concept until it gets more difficult to collect 10 or 20 million.
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Quote from RoleCall
So short it now, or later
Any good guesses on how long until they crash and burn ?-
Quote from fw
Quote from RoleCall
So short it now, or later
Any good guesses on how long until they crash and burn ?
That’s always the problem with attempted shorts. You can just “know” it will fail but get creamed in the timing.-
Enron consistently went up before it failed, too. Best bet is to keep your distance
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per the S1, FDA application came back with deficiencies.
It would be nice to know when the FDA rejection will be for most of the claimed uses. That may be the beginning of the end
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Apparently NNOX has a contract with USARad for tele services.
The plan, per their F1 is to install these in urgent care centers and clinics.
It will truly be on par with Theranos if they are able to trick any clinics into believing this tomo system is a CT replacement as they are marketing it. I could see this getting approved for basic XR and then the marketing to urgent care centers go something like the approval for mammo and other applications is pending
Heres a link to the F1
[link=https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1795251/000114036120017084/nt10006151x8_f1.htm#tB]https://www.sec.gov/Archi…nt10006151x8_f1.htm#tB[/link]If cleared, we plan to market and deploy the Nanox System globally at a substantially lower cost than currently available medical imaging systems, such as computed tomography (CT),
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Stock down 23% today. I mentioned it to a friend on Friday. He does a lot of investing and has done very well. ‘Sounds like a good short to me” which he did this morning.
I don’t have the guts for that. As I mentioned earlier, there is no doubt this will fail at some point. It’s just to easy to be caught in a short squeeze if enough people want to believe the smoke and mirrors.-
Phillips at one point had a small cheap slow single slice CT scanner. They sold so poorly, in the end if you bought a 16 slice they threw in one of those crap-boxes for free. Even urgentcares need useable images.
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[link=https://citronresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/NANO-X-a-Complete-Farce-on-the-Market.pdf]https://citronresearch.co…arce-on-the-Market.pdf[/link]
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Good find, Thread Enhancer. This operation needs to be shut down.
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I liked this quote:
“Conclusion
This $3 billion science project appears to be nothing more than a complete stock promotion.”-
The friend I tipped and I are planning a wine country event next month.
“Are you still short?”
“I covered 80% of it. Definitely paid for one of our dinners… and the wine too!”
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NNOX Investor Alert: Bronstein, Gewirtz & Grossman, LLC Notifies Nano-X Imaging Ltd. Investors of Investigation[/h1] [link=https://finance.yahoo.com/news/nnox-investor-alert-bronstein-gewirtz-164500766.html]https://finance.yahoo.com…gewirtz-164500766.html[/link]
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Quote from NYPhD
NNOX Investor Alert: Bronstein, Gewirtz & Grossman, LLC Notifies Nano-X Imaging Ltd. Investors of Investigation [link=https://finance.yahoo.com/news/nnox-investor-alert-bronstein-gewirtz-164500766.html]https://finance.yahoo.com…gewirtz-164500766.html[/link]
If someone wrote this as a script for a movie, it would be handed back to them with a comment [i]’yeah, you can’t put it on that thick, for starters, change the names of the lawyers'[/i].
That’s like a crossover episode of ‘American Greed’ on CNBC with ‘Live Rescue’ from A&E.
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Dang. How was he able to short? I tried to look for positions but its so near IPO no shorts were available.
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Quote from brickydragon
Dang. How was he able to short? I tried to look for positions but its so near IPO no shorts were available.
Not sure. He’s a pretty sophisticated investor and ITB if you will. Was a fund manager at one point. I imagine he has access to things we do not.-
Yea. I’ve heard there are creative ways of making shorts around early IPOs. I transferred money into my account in anticipation of options becoming available but it looks like they couldn’t keep the scam going long enough. Currently down 40% from peak.
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I’ve been looking in on investment sites. It’s amazing how bullish many investors are. They are falling for the investment pitch in droves.
I imagine there will be more opportunities to profit on the downside. There are actually analysts out there that think this is going to be a great company. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the stock rise again before the truth is finally revealed.
Do we have anyone here with USARAD? I am wondering what their radiologists think. -
If I can interrupt the feeding frenzy for a second…
Let me ask your opinion on how this pretty obvious fraud got this far.
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Quote from brickydragon
Dang. How was he able to short? I tried to look for positions but its so near IPO no shorts were available.
Options market is now open…-
[link]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ed4JyMeESQ[/link]
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The modified video adds questions about patient position, particularly for MSK plain films. Table/gantry configuration would make it difficult, particularly with injured/immobilized patients to perform one pass plain films?
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apparently they will demonstrate it “live” at RSNA
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its up 30% after hours on that announcement. lol
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Quote from n.rad
its up 30% after hours on that announcement. lol
With each of these announcements, someone is clearing a couple of million and someone else is making money while the stock is down from that ‘hump’. -
The stock will probably continue to rise as they will likely get FDA approval for single source. It probably wont be until everyone realizes this isnt capable of half the claims (CT and mammo) before we see it head back down.
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Anyone else find it weird that Nanox will be demonstrating its scanner “live” at the RSNA 2020, “which is being held November 29-December 5 in Chicago” (from the Nanox press release), when the entire conference is supposed to be virtual?
Having said that, it will be interesting to see what they actually show. I’ll get my popcorn ready.-
Hopefully there is a Q&A portion.
Questions posed will be very different than those from The Motley Fool and media so far.
Please elaborate on this plan to scan every human on earth once per year.
How exactly will this device perform mammography?
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They have a few Radiologists on the advisory board. I wonder if they know that they are being used to legitimize a scam.
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If you don’t mind hearing my opinion it’s pretty obvious when you go and read these online investment sites like stocktwits.com. There are many people that want to be in on the next TESLA or Amazon or Shopify.
When a report like the one from Citrus comes out they believe it’s a scam to make money selling short. They are probably right to some degree.
The sale pitch is very good. What I don’t understand is what USARAD is buying into. One would think they would know better.-
I realized there is something else at play. Even seasoned investors are looking for the hot tip based on technical knowledge. When I first asked my friend if he knew anything about NANOX, his first reply was that he had seen they had gone public but hadn’t really looked at it. Then he took a look at the stock and said “oh wow, I wish I had bought it last week! Do you like their technology?”
When I responded he quickly changed to “I’m excited to short it now”.
Most people have no idea what they are investing in, even the “pros” sometimes.-
Sadly, that is true. One of the smartest people I know has just discovered investing, but he appears to be mistaking a bull market for investment expertise. He mentioned Amazon one day and shook his head. “They call it a tech stock, but I don’t know why delivering stuff makes it a tech stock!” I mentioned the fact that Amazon is perhaps the largest presence in the cloud-storage game. “Oh…I didn’t know that!”
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Quote from DoctorDalai
Sadly, that is true. One of the smartest people I know has just discovered investing, but he appears to be mistaking a bull market for investment expertise. He mentioned Amazon one day and shook his head. “They call it a tech stock, but I don’t know why delivering stuff makes it a tech stock!” I mentioned the fact that Amazon is perhaps the largest presence in the cloud-storage game. “Oh…I didn’t know that!”
I wonder about this a lot. Are these investors truly “smart” or do they just happen to inhabit a space that allows them great opportunity?
I have three classmates from high school that are extremely financially successful. One runs a venture debt firm. One runs a private equity firm. One runs a firm that invests in real estate and restaurant franchises. They were all top of our class and went to Ivy League institutions. They have each made colossal mistakes that have cost their businesses a lot of money. They have also had home runs that leave them living a life I can only imagine. I’m not sure how much how “smart” they are has to do with it.-
In delving a little deeper, the absolute ridiculous claims about non-compressive mammography with 1% the dose and single cell resolution is from nanox medical corporation. This is a USA based company with a different logo. Possibly unrelated?
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The idea of this doing that mammography is also unrealistic without a biopsy system which pairs with the imaging system. I pointed that out to you one of the analysts on Twitter who is promoting the stock. Their response was something about the current high rate of false positive screening and how NNOX was going to use AI to eliminate unnecessary biopsies.
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Could you post the link to the Tweet?
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Nanox Medical Corp does seem to be a different company. They are offering a stand alone mammo unit. This is different than the “ARC” scanner NNOX is touting.
It’s quite confusing. Does NNOX state they will be doing breast screening with the ARC unit?-
[link=https://www.israel21c.org/israeli-firm-aims-to-disrupt-mammograms-and-other-x-rays/]https://www.israel21c.org…rams-and-other-x-rays/[/link]
Because its digital, its multispectral. You dont need different machines to do different kinds of imaging, says Poliakine. That includes mammography, CT, fluoroscopy and angiography, for instance.
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[link=https://twitter.com/terrapharma1/status/1304080337761259521?s=21]https://twitter.com/terra…04080337761259521?s=21[/link]
I removed my tweet (I was being accused of trolling for questioning the validity of this company) but you can still see the response.
Looking forward to hearing if Nanox has granted a "mammography medical devices and solutions" licensing deal to Fujifilm yet. 🚀 $NNOX pic.twitter.com/2YTDKD9e82
— TerraPharma (@TerraPharma1) September 10, 2020
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Quote from namerad
[link=https://www.israel21c.org/israeli-firm-aims-to-disrupt-mammograms-and-other-x-rays/]https://www.israel21c.org…rams-and-other-x-rays/[/link]
Because its digital, its multispectral. You dont need different machines to do different kinds of imaging, says Poliakine. That includes mammography, CT, fluoroscopy and angiography, for instance.
I am sure it’s also in technicolor and smells really good.
That guy sounds like a trip.
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I asked some basic questions on the Stocktwits site and I was immediately attacked. Its sad. One guy put a large position of his 401k into the stock. It seems the point of the website is to pump the stock and counteract the short sellers. Not learn about the technology.
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I think I just didnt have enough rocket emojis in my tweets.
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And its from israel. So its super innovative, you know.
A few years ago, a south african company tried to market a ‘slot scanner’. This thing was designed to x-ray the miners every day so they couldn’t smuggle gold nuggets out of the mine. They had a test unit at Grote Shur hospital, don’t know whether it ever got further than that. It did a whole body plain-film in a few seconds with a fairly low dose. It didn’t diagnose breast cancer at the cellular level though.-
You don’t get the prison referrals where they fax across a picture of their low dose whole body grams after someone’s sharpied a circle around contraband in the stomach or a big femoral osteosarc with “please find with ct” on the cover sheet?
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It seems like there are a few physicians over at stocktwits now. I really feel for those caught up in the pump and dump.
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[link=https://seekingalpha.com/news/3614142-nano-x-slides-citron-takes-aim-blatant-stock-promotion-seen?mod=mw_quote_news]https://seekingalpha.com/news/3614142-nano-x-slides-citron-takes-aim-blatant-stock-promotion-seen?mod=mw_quote_news[/link]
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[link=https://citronresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/NANO-X-a-Complete-Farce-on-the-Market.pdf]https://citronresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/NANO-X-a-Complete-Farce-on-the-Market.pdf[/link]
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Quote from FlyNavy
[link=https://seekingalpha.com/news/3614142-nano-x-slides-citron-takes-aim-blatant-stock-promotion-seen?mod=mw_quote_news]https://seekingalpha.com/news/3614142-nano-x-slides-citron-takes-aim-blatant-stock-promotion-seen?mod=mw_quote_news[/link]
Target stock price: $0
hah-
I can understand greedy non-medical neophyte investors could get caught up in this dog, but FUJI???? Seriously? Someone is going to be fired.
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Someone just posted this on Twitter and everyone got really excited.
[link]https://vimeo.com/393593220/27cfd413ca[/link]
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Reminds me of when I interviewed at Mayo and they were doing shallow oblique CXRs that you looked at with crossed eyes to get a “3D” look.
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Some kind of 3D tomo/ XR. Dont see how this is very helpful. They really shouldnt have been able to say this is a CT replacement in the SEC filling.
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Yes. That’s the crux. Decent radiographs. There is nothing that will allow it to do the MSaaS they are pushing as the revenue source.
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Quote from namerad
Someone just posted this on Twitter and everyone got really excited.
[link=https://vimeo.com/393593220/27cfd413ca]https://vimeo.com/393593220/27cfd413ca[/link]
I think ‘science project’ is an apt description. A bit above high-school. Maybe undergrad biomed engineering majors.-
They do seem to have a decent machinist/fabricator. I have seen worse.
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[link=https://investors.nanox.vision/events-presentations/events]https://investors.nanox.vision/events-presentations/events[/link]
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Dr Dalai, from my position as a radiographer (tech) in the UK, I concur with your misgivings about Nanox. Yes, it is Theranos 2.0. l am sure you have read ‘Bad Blood’ by John Carreyrou. That must be journalists sharpening their pencils about this.
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At least there is finally an image or two available…
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From the images, cheap diagnostic radiography capable of functioning in constrained space with associated IT and interpretative support would have markets in developing and developed places… No proof that they can execute on those later aspects. Reduced needs for dedicated technologists, assuming you get good MSK stuff too? I don’t see based on these images CT, MRI, flouro, or US being disrupted. I’ll wait for abd and MSK demos.
The valuation is WAY OFF. Frankly, I think it would have been a better tech play (as in target for a big player) rather than stand alone business model, if we can take the chip anode tech at face value.
Still skeptical. Reminds me of the Lodox, just a lot cheaper… And, Lodox really doesn’t have a place in US practice…
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HAHAHAHA. That video was classic.
Like in the old days when radiologist would call pt down for live fluoro of the lungs to search out a subtle pneumothorax or possible bone island vs nodule.
LOL
Images almost as good as felsons classic 1973 chest roentgonology book…when he teaches of proper work up to include obliques, buckys, spots and tomos
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NYC. Thats what I was thinking. There is some potentially good technology there. Its just that they are trying to package it in an unworkable model. Then they created a business plan with all of the right buzzwords. Sounds about right for a serial entrepreneur.
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Ooops, looks like it’s allegedly a fraud…
[link=https://www.radiologybusiness.com/topics/healthcare-economics/nanox-imaging-class-action-lawsuit-citron-theranos-20]https://www.radiologybusi…uit-citron-theranos-20[/link]
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People on Twitter are tearing apart radiologists questioning the tech claims.
This is just a crappy x-ray that can’t do ct without changing the laws of physics.
Total pump and dump to uneducated investors.
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Yeah, Ive been watching Twitter. The sad thing is some of the promoters who clearly dont know what theyre talking about have thousands of followers and are writers for Motley Fool. Lots of investors will be misled.
One guy keeps saying its multispectral therefore it can do CT.
Its eerily similar to this:
[link=https://www.healthnewsreview.org/2018/06/pathologists-predicted-the-theranos-debacle-but-their-voices-were-missing-from-most-news-coverage/]https://www.healthnewsrev…om-most-news-coverage/[/link]
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Yup saw the motley fool writer and a Google health fellow ( who is on their advisory board). Motley fool conveniently had an interview with the ceo recently too. Everyone pumping this to uneducated investors must have no conscience.
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The multispectal aspect was really promoted in the F1 and is getting promoted by these guys like its some sort of magic.
I consulted for Phillips when they were developing spectral CT. The engineers would show us CT images of the abdomen at various kVp settings. 90% of it was useless.
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I look forward to Radiologists Predicted the NNOX Debalce…
I want to believe, I really do… But…
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This thing is being traded like a penny stock. Plenty of room to make money going up or down. We know there is no real value in the product but that wont stop the pump and dump gang or the short sellers that create hatchet job articles, even if they are mostly true.
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Reinforces my view that stock advice is generally garbage
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They are going to crush allegations at RSNA
[link=https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-10-02/nano-x-plans-to-disprove-short-sellers-and-crush-allegations?__twitter_impression=true]https://www.bloomberg.com…witter_impression=true[/link]
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Lol should be interesting…
If anyone is doing rsna this year… Please check it out haha
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RSNA is virtual this year. Nanox can put whatever it wants into a sham video and claim it’s a “demonstration”. And THEY KNOW IT. Think about it. When have you seen a “live” demonstration of a radiation-emitting device at RSNA? I never have. These people believe us to be incredibly stupid. And it seems that greed is blinding quite a few folks.
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I guess all of these stock promoters and analysts can login and watch RSNA this year if they really want to. Itll be funny if this session sets attendance records. I really hope we get some good questions.
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The blind leading the blind:
[link=https://twitter.com/stockmarketnerd/status/1312030872800026624?s=21]https://twitter.com/stock…12030872800026624?s=21[/link]
Insurance agents are to $LMND
as
Radiologists are to $NNOX
as
Media giants are to @barstoolsports
as
Ad reps are to $TTD
as
Legacy cyber security is to $CRWD
Disruption is loud.
The best disrupters I have found are inexplicably hated by incumbents.
— Brad Freeman (@StockMarketNerd) October 2, 2020
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Ignorance.
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I bantered a little with some of the investors…they do NOT want to hear anything negative, and could not care less that I might actually know something about what I’m saying. Sadly, the 23-year-old incredibly arrogant hedge fund POS doing much of the talking will likely make a lot of money on this house of cards.
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yup … in a couple months they will be pumping something else.
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Its funny that the RSNA announcement sent the stock up 50%. The largest radiology event that has representation from most vendors. In reality it wouldve been more surprising if they didnt attend in some form. It was essentially a non-announcement.
If something as simple as that news sends the stock up, theres probably 100% gains or more in store for it before the company is either sold or goes out of business as there will be many more announcements. Just imagine the investor euphoria when they get approved for single source (which is meaningless).
Making money on it will all be about timing. Some will do well others will not.
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Yeah that “fda approval” will send it through the roof. That’s why you don’t short these things, they can perpetuate the fraud for a long time.
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“Yeah that “fda approval” will send it through the roof. That’s why you don’t short these things, they can perpetuate the fraud for a long time.”
I’m up 50% will probably dump it tomorrow morning.
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Quote from DoctorDalai
I bantered a little with some of the investors…they do NOT want to hear anything negative, and could not care less that I might actually know something about what I’m saying. Sadly, the 23-year-old incredibly arrogant hedge fund POS doing much of the talking will likely make a lot of money on this house of cards.
[link=https://mobile.twitter.com/AustinW05347448/with_replies]https://mobile.twitter.co…W05347448/with_replies[/link]Dr Dalai – Oh my goodness that twitter dime bag has a potty mouth!! Ha ha … he tweets like he’s in a constant ‘-roid rage’
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A couple of years ago at RSNA there was a family of custom truck fabricators in the vendor room advertising customizations for portable mammo units… but this is a huge deal that nnox is going.
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Search Twitter for NNOX and you will see the mentality. The 23 y/o hedge fund jerk made it very clear that he knows everything, has been right in all his other predictions, and anyone who actually knows something about something can go do something anatomically impossible. Another said, “Can’t fix stupid” referring to me and not Hedgie. Oh well.
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[link]https://mobile.twitter.com/AustinW05347448[/link]
It’s not worth your effort to try and prevent guys like this from losing money.
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Investment newsletters etc. are so untrustworthy; they are not thorough and believe what they want.
It’s about perception, and stock price. The actual product is frequently secondary.
So in the short term, someone can make money, but you have to pay attention and play the game.
Long or short, you are guessing on timing; which is a lot about luck.
Not a stock to invest in and sit on; like Buffet does. Boring companies that make paint, carpet, soft drinks et al are more predictable.
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In the Twitter and StockTwits world anyone who doesnt promote the stock and tweet rocket ship
emojis is a troll.Its just bizarre to me that you have people who are professionals in radiology trying to help some of these guys for free and they argue with them.
I was investing in a drug company awhile back and the first thing I did was seek advice from one of our oncologists about it.
I think its best to just let these guys learn the hard way and lose their money.
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I contacted the Radiology Department at Hadassah Hospital in Jerusalem; apparently I’m not the first. I was referred to Public Relations, and was given this statement (and NOTHING beyond):
[blockquote] The partnership agreement was signed with the company in September 2019. Within the terms of the agreement it was agreed that Hadassah would provide services to the company and there would be a possibility of joint development in the future.[u][/u][u][/u]
In accordance with the agreement, at the end of December 2019, the company’s prototype device was transferred to Hadassah for several weeks, during which models made of plastic materials, simulating the human body (not real patients), were scanned. After several weeks the device was taken by the company, before humans were scanned.[u][/u][u][/u]
The company received images scanned by the prototype device that the company had developed, as well regular images of the models scanned by Hadassah equipment.
[/blockquote] The possibilities here are numerous.-
Even if this thing could do CT as everyone on Twitter seems to believe its way too slow for contrast or breath hold imaging. Its funny when you point this out and the response you get boils down to its magic
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Quote from n.rad
Even if this thing could do CT as everyone on Twitter seems to believe its way too slow for contrast or breath hold imaging. Its funny when you point this out and the response you get boils down to its magic
Its not magic, its multispectral superfragilicous !-
I did get one of the gentlemen to back down a bit and say, “Let’s revisit this when it’s proven.” Progress. I guess.
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but this is the new technology. physics no longer applies…
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As with SARS-CoV-2, the Dunning-Kruger effect has an incredible impact. People mistake reading an article or two for expertise in most any field.
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This article tries to explain the nnox behavior:
[link=https://beurswolf.com/2020/10/04/the-hype-premium-and-the-fraud-discount-tesla-nikola-and-nano-x/amp/?__twitter_impression=true]https://beurswolf.com/202…witter_impression=true[/link]“Whenever a company presents a new technology to the newly founded investment crowds on social media, one story can quickly lead to another. A company may be picked up by a financial influencer, who announces his bull thesis on such an investment. People start talking about the technology, mostly focusing on the potential to disrupt industries and the world. They start to cook up some high level valuation metrics for the company and slap a huge price target on it.
Before you know it, the only way for the stock is to go up, while the fundamentals do not necessarily support the sharply increasing valuation. It is all about the story. The bigger the hype, the further the price increases. The gap between the fundamental value and the price in this case is what I would like to call the Hype Premium.”
“When an investment banker or experienced financial analyst points out a flaw in the reasoning of these investors this may ignite a discussion similar to other academics trying to convince:
flat earthers that the earth is actually a sphere
religious people that humans evolved and were not created by a deity”
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