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  • Lifestyle, money, Job, private practice

    Posted by Unknown Member on January 2, 2020 at 10:05 am

    Recently a current fellow asked me about my recommendations about jobs.
    This is my recommendations:

    As a person who has worked in real private practice for my entire career of 20 years and have made a $hitload of money, my recommendation to younger guys is to go for a “lifestyle” job.

    Beyond a certain point, money is way overrated. “Time” is very underrated. Get a lifestyle job, make an average doctor’s salary of 200-250K, live a middle class lifestyle (which is very good in US) and not “doctor’s lifestyle” and enjoy your time.

    My experience:
    – Networth: The first 2 mil was very exciting. After that it was just a number. Never made me happy.
    – House: Another overrated piece of crap that you can buy.
    – Cars: A Camry can do the job well. Anyway, you can lease a BMW for 2-3 years and enjoy it.
    – Luxurious Vacation: Overrated. Do one just to experience it. Then travel like most middle class Americans

    TIME: Very very precious and very underrated. In my first private practice job I had 12 weeks of vacation but Q3 weekend call
    It was terrible. I had to pick my vacation 5-6 months in advance. There was zero Flexobility. I missed a lot of social events. Go to a practice that let you take “random days off with short notice”. Also go for a practice that has “least number of weekend calls”. Weekend work is Terrible and becomes exhausting and annoying very soon.

    I personally regret my choice. It was not worth it. Hope the younger guys choose a different path.

    Good luck.

    Dr_Cocciolillo replied 3 years, 7 months ago 34 Members · 177 Replies
  • 177 Replies
  • ljohnson_509

    Member
    January 2, 2020 at 10:26 am

    Real private practice is a dying breed anyways hospital rad. The younger rads will likely work as hard for corporations and university expansions for a fraction of the income.

    Agree that time is way underrated. The concept of a rad living a middle class American lifestyle is unlikely in my experience. Most struggle with the average salary due to high spending, debt, poor investments, etc.

  • susquam

    Member
    January 2, 2020 at 10:28 am

    I understand what you are saying to some degree but don’t necessarily agree with a lot of this in my personal opinion and everyone will have their two cents to add.
     
    I grew up where money was always an issue. Job stability for my dad was a problem as well which created some of those problems. I learned a lot of life lessons growing up and having all that going on. I have done very well in private practice and am 11 years out of fellowship. That money is priceless to me. I don’t have to worry about anything financially. That piece of mind just can’t have a value placed on it if you have ever been on the opposite spectrum.
     
    I also don’t mind to work and work hard. Yes weekends get old but sometimes when the weather sucks and nothing is going on and I would of just been bored anyways.
     
    I agree with the car and house part completely. Disagree on vacations. I love to travel and have been to some amazing places. Those experiences and memories are worth more to me than any possession.
     
    Any and all of this discussion doesn’t matter if an individual doesn’t prioritize their health above everything else. Finding a stress release, exercise and family support are required no matter what sort of a job you pick.
     
    Finally I think the job you have in mind as a lifestyle job is just becoming harder and harder to find.

    • msc5405

      Member
      January 2, 2020 at 10:42 am

      I don’t think he meant no vacations. Luxury vacations is what he was opposed to. So… go to Europe, but stay in regular hotels and Airbnbs, eat regular food, do regular sight seeing. Maybe use the doctor income to upgrade the class on the long leg of the trip?
       

  • Unknown Member

    Deleted User
    January 2, 2020 at 10:48 am

    Well intended it may be, this is gonna fall on deaf ears. Not because it’s bad advice, but rather because we are all myopic only capable of seeing things from our current predicament. Human nature. We value things we have the least of.

    Ask an ill person what’s most important in life. He will say health.
    Ask an old wealthy guy, he will say time.
    Ask a student business major, success.
    Ask a young rad in debt about to start his career, money.

    The young will thank you for your advice but will turn around and sign the $650k partnership position with q2 call.

    Let’s turn around and take a look at you. In the past, didn’t some old dude tell you to take the lifestyle job? What did you do instead? Only now, after you’ve squandered all your precious time while accruing wealth, do you come to the realization. I’m not faulting your younger self. Its only human nature.

    Sorry to say, your age did not bring about wisdom. You no longer have time and youth on your side so those things all of a sudden seem important above all else.

    Now mind you, I’m not saying I’m immune to these foibles.

    • Unknown Member

      Deleted User
      January 2, 2020 at 10:54 am

      Best thing you can do as a new radiologist is save as much as possible invest and develop other income streams independent of radiology

      Once you have your financial fortress of solitude …… you can do what you want …. when you want……where you want…….. and for how long

      Work you arse off until your Mid 40s then if your plan works out..,,. Do what you want

      • Unknown Member

        Deleted User
        January 2, 2020 at 11:33 am

        @texas rads: yes. I meant luxury vacations. Otherwise, I am great fan of visiting new places and new experiences.

        @Jimboboy: I get your point. But who knows. It may help some people get out of their myopic view. We are not necessary doomed to follow our human nature.

        • Unknown Member

          Deleted User
          January 2, 2020 at 11:36 am

          kpack123,

          Your comment is very subjective. What is the definition of “financial fortress of solitude”? Give me a number.
          How much money does someone need?
          I know a neurosurgeon with a net worth of 12 mil plus who still works his a$$ off to become “financially independent” hopefully someday.

          • Unknown Member

            Deleted User
            January 2, 2020 at 12:06 pm

            The number is variable based upon the lifestyle you choose to live

            In my opinion if you expect to get all of your income from radiology then you are very likely to
            Work a very long time

            Personally I replaced most of my 30s-45 radiology income with alternative streams

            Real estate
            Dividend stocks
            Side businesses

            It takes a lot of planning but its good to have an FU income stream

            • Unknown Member

              Deleted User
              January 2, 2020 at 12:10 pm

              But yes you are correct the number is very subjective

              Some physicians can live well off of 150-200K per year once their bills are paid and they own their home outright

              Some probably cant live well off of 3 to 4 times that amount

              • Unknown Member

                Deleted User
                January 2, 2020 at 12:27 pm

                @ kpack123,

                FYI, my neurosurgeon friend and especially his wife can’t live on anything less than 600-700, believe it or not.

                • Unknown Member

                  Deleted User
                  January 2, 2020 at 12:39 pm

                  I believe it

                • Unknown Member

                  Deleted User
                  January 2, 2020 at 12:50 pm

                  Well, therein lies the rub, ain’t it?

                  Whether you nake 40k or 400k a yr living below your means is the key. Not even sure why this is up for discussion.

                  The only thing I would add for the new rads is to retrench to rural radiology if it works for your family. A solid, classical PP rad in rural Iowa can’t be beat. Might give you another decade before the craziness of private equity.

          • Unknown Member

            Deleted User
            January 2, 2020 at 1:08 pm

            I – 100% – agree with Hospital Rads post. Full stop.

            Residents and fellows should consider trusting it – even if they arent feeling it – rather than learning it the hard way. It is essentially the same conclusion and ethos of most major religions and philosophies, I.e. that the attraction of worldly riches and fame are a sirens song and time spent in their pursuit is a costly diversion from ones journey on the Path.

            I give the same advice to the many premeds and med students I advise and mentor.

            For some, HospitalRad has more credibility than me on this because he has taken the path of radiologist conventional wisdom of seeking the high paying, hard-charging job and his reflection here comes from personal experience.

            When I was picking between jobs coming out of fellowship, I had a conversation with a friend I grew up with who made it big in Silicon Valley with his own start-up that he sold for high 9-figures to a company that is a household name. I asked him for advice on what job – and therefore lifestyle – I should seek.

            He listened to my analysis of my job options – essentially between a well-paying job that was less busy with better hours and more accommodating but less vacation time; versus a much better-paying job that was busier with slightly longer hours and more vacation days that had to be scheduled way in advance.

            His answer was similar to HospitalRads post: that more money is ultimately just fancier toys and furnishings and a bigger number when you log into an online account, all to give you a false sense of status and accomplishment among men.

            He said he would take the lifestyle job, easy. The money would be plenty and if I couldnt build a fulfilling life on that income, it would not be the jobs fault. I havent looked back since then and am currently writing this on one of our long road trips with the kids in the mini-van. Life is good, even without FI.

            • Unknown Member

              Deleted User
              January 2, 2020 at 1:23 pm

              I would not say living below your means is the key

              I really dont deprive myself or my wife of anything

              My wife and I buy what we want

              I like nice things

              She does too

              House is really nice with a great view of the gulf

              Cars are decent

              I guess we could travel more but why leave where you love

              We dont crazy on stupid sheet but when we eat out its not at McDonalds or a longhorn steakhouse

              • Unknown Member

                Deleted User
                January 2, 2020 at 1:28 pm

                Sure as F wouldnt live in rural Iowa

                • btomba_77

                  Member
                  January 2, 2020 at 1:42 pm

                  I just earned more money (by far) in 2019 than any other year of my career…

                  All it did was make me more ready to go part time.

                  Wasnt worth it

                  • Unknown Member

                    Deleted User
                    January 2, 2020 at 1:51 pm

                    I think one key aspect of living simpler is to understand that its NOT about depriving yourself or your family of what you want.

                    Its about making the mental adjustment such that you want less; are happy with simple things; and derive fulfillment from things that are immaterial and therefore both free and priceless.

                  • Unknown Member

                    Deleted User
                    January 2, 2020 at 1:57 pm

                    Quote from dergon

                    I just earned more money (by far) in 2019 than any other year of my career…

                    All it did was make me more ready to go part time.

                    Wasnt worth it

                    Everyone has to find that balance. Only way to find it is to work too hard. Now you know not to do that in 2020.

                • Unknown Member

                  Deleted User
                  January 2, 2020 at 1:51 pm

                  Quote from kpack123

                  Sure as F wouldnt live in rural Iowa

                  Most wouldn’t. This is why there is big money there. 
                   

    • jeevonbenning_648

      Member
      January 5, 2020 at 3:32 am

      I have disagreed with some of your past posts, but this one was bang on. Bravo. Right up my alley this topic.

      I guess I have always been lucky to prioritize piece of mind, health, flexibility, travel, wonder, being excited and naive, dreaming bigger, etc. over working my butt off so I can see more digits on a screen. Never appealed to me.

      Right now, I spend less per month to fund my lifestyle than just my cash flow from passive real estate partnerships and couldn’t be happier. I wake up and every year (and month, and day) I’m more grateful and more excited in life than the last.

      With all the threads popping up in a similar vein as this lately, I have zero sympathy for those who got themselves into this mess. Greed, poor planning, and misguided life priorities got them to be where they are. If ANY radiologist (who are above average IQ) cannot be financially free by 35, the blame lies in the radiologist. No one forced you to marry that person who said we need new furniture and “your a doctor, we should stay in x hotel”.

      My favorite person to get inspiration from is Naval. He basically talks about how trading your time for dollars (a doctor with an hourly or yearly salary) will never be the way to true freedom of time, mastering your mental and physical health, and reaching your maximum creative potential and success. I am grateful I figured this out at 27 when I started investing in real estate.

      The same people who try to shame you on here for “wasting your training” by not wanting to sit behind a computer monitor for 30-40 years trading your time for dollars, wish they had lived up to their true potential and mastered their physical and mental health. They know it’s too late for them.

      • Unknown Member

        Deleted User
        January 5, 2020 at 8:07 am

        “No one forced you to marry that person who said we need new furniture and “your a doctor, we should stay in x hotel”. ”
         
        Here we go again, it’s the woman’s fault. The Little Rascal’s He-Man Women Haters Club strikes again.
         
        Thanks Spanky.
         
         

  • Unknown Member

    Deleted User
    January 2, 2020 at 12:53 pm

    Quote from Hospital-Rad

    Recently a current fellow asked me about my recommendations about jobs.
    This is my recommendations:

    As a person who has worked in real private practice for my entire career of 20 years and have made a $hitload of money, my recommendation to younger guys is to go for a “lifestyle” job.

    Beyond a certain point, money is way overrated. “Time” is very underrated. Get a lifestyle job, make an average doctor’s salary of 200-250K, live a middle class lifestyle (which is very good in US) and not “doctor’s lifestyle” and enjoy your time.

    My experience:
    – Networth: The first 2 mil was very exciting. After that it was just a number. Never made me happy.
    – House: Another overrated piece of crap that you can buy.
    – Cars: A Camry can do the job well. Anyway, you can lease a BMW for 2-3 years and enjoy it.
    – Luxurious Vacation: Overrated. Do one just to experience it. Then travel like most middle class Americans

    TIME: Very very precious and very underrated. In my first private practice job I had 12 weeks of vacation but Q3 weekend call
    It was terrible. I had to pick my vacation 5-6 months in advance. There was zero Flexobility. I missed a lot of social events. Go to a practice that let you take “random days off with short notice”. Also go for a practice that has “least number of weekend calls”. Weekend work is Terrible and becomes exhausting and annoying very soon.

    I personally regret my choice. It was not worth it. Hope the younger guys choose a different path.

    Good luck.

    What would you of done with all that free time? Read Proust? Tolstoy’s War and Peace?
     
    I could do q3 weekends with 12 weeks vacation.
     
    Cry me a river….
     
    The sad thing is the surgical and medical specialist ubermensch docs who take no vacation and work 80 hour weeks to make 1-2 million. At this level of work life does pass one by. 12 weeks vacation is not bad. I haven’t had that much in years.

    • jeevonbenning_648

      Member
      January 5, 2020 at 3:39 am

      Yes, and yes.

      There are an infinite number of places to visit, people to meet, businesses and projects to start, books to read, languages to learn, etc.

      Lately I have felt bad that I tell the new people I meet that most doctors are uni-dimensional. I can see now that I wasn’t wrong in this, I was actually being generous..

  • Unknown Member

    Deleted User
    January 2, 2020 at 1:05 pm

    I had a lot of vacation to the point that I didn’t know what to do with some of them. But consider two things:
    1- Almost half of the weeks were not under your control. For example you may not wanted to have one week in mid January and again another week in late Feb. And everyone wanted time off during summer school break and at Christmas or New year. But most people couldn’t. You had to choose a week out of what was available and not what you want. For example it was hard to have a week off during Christmas or New year or Thanksgiving. Out of 10 years I had a week off in late December probably only 2 or 3 years.

    2- Despite a lot of vacation, there were lots of time that I wanted to have a Wednesday afternoon off or a Friday off but I couldn’t.
    Long story short, I had 12 weeks of vacation but half of it was not under my control and the other half had to be picked up 6 months in advance. Also I couldn’t get single days off.
    I say that having a job with 5 weeks of vacation but under your complete control ( bring abke to get single days off with 2 weeks notice in advance) is a better to much better deal than a job with 12 weeks of vacation.

    • Unknown Member

      Deleted User
      January 2, 2020 at 1:26 pm

      Great posts, I have echoed what H-Rad said a long time ago, or he agreed with me. I am younger, and worked hard to get out of debt, but the issue becomes one of region/family/priorities.
       
      I’m an example of already agreeing with Hospital-Rad, so maybe the “falling on deaf ears above” is true. You can’t force anyone to take the red pill, you can’t teach being wise, really, only the right ways to think about life and even then the soil of the soul will respond accordingly.
       
      Traveling to new and different places, getting away from consumerist culture (while possible) and seeing poosy paradises are great ways to spend time when America gets old and you realize how ingrained a lot of bad cultural elements are. But, it is a country that to this point still has good infrastructure and a ton of amenities not available elsewhere.
       
      Most doctors worry WAY too much about money, won’t end up spending it anyway, and then gift it to their already spoiled kids. The whole scenario is totally overrated. Work, but understand that stress reduction and a normal life are [b]far [/b]more important than money you’ll likely never need or spend. 

      • Unknown Member

        Deleted User
        January 2, 2020 at 1:47 pm

        Quote from Castlevania

        Great posts, I have echoed what H-Rad said a long time ago, or he agreed with me. I am younger, and worked hard to get out of debt, but the issue becomes one of region/family/priorities.

        I’m an example of already agreeing with Hospital-Rad, so maybe the “falling on deaf ears above” is true. You can’t force anyone to take the red pill, you can’t teach being wise, really, only the right ways to think about life and even then the soil of the soul will respond accordingly.

        Traveling to new and different places, getting away from consumerist culture (while possible) and seeing poosy paradises are great ways to spend time when America gets old and you realize how ingrained a lot of bad cultural elements are. But, it is a country that to this point still has good infrastructure and a ton of amenities not available elsewhere.

        Most doctors worry WAY too much about money, won’t end up spending it anyway, and then gift it to their already spoiled kids. The whole scenario is totally overrated. Work, but understand that stress reduction and a normal life are [b]far [/b]more important than money you’ll likely never need or spend. 

         “The sharp edge of a razor is difficult to pass over; thus the wise say the path to Salvation is hard.” -Katha Upanishad
         
        Hard to walk away from money when the option is there. Few can do it.
         
        Most people do not have the option to make what radiologists can make.

    • Unknown Member

      Deleted User
      January 2, 2020 at 6:21 pm

      Quote from Hospital-Rad

      I had a lot of vacation to the point that I didn’t know what to do with some of them.

       
      I would sit in an empty room and contemplate my navel- drown in the sea of my memories.
       
      -direct my mind to the color of television, tuned to a dead TV channel.

  • Unknown Member

    Deleted User
    January 2, 2020 at 3:30 pm

    Quote from Hospital-Rad

    Recently a current fellow asked me about my recommendations about jobs.
    This is my recommendations:

    As a person who has worked in real private practice for my entire career of 20 years and have made a $hitload of money, my recommendation to younger guys is to go for a “lifestyle” job.

    Beyond a certain point, money is way overrated. “Time” is very underrated. Get a lifestyle job, make an average doctor’s salary of 200-250K, live a middle class lifestyle (which is very good in US) and not “doctor’s lifestyle” and enjoy your time.

    My experience:
    – Networth: The first 2 mil was very exciting. After that it was just a number. Never made me happy.
    – House: Another overrated piece of crap that you can buy.
    – Cars: A Camry can do the job well. Anyway, you can lease a BMW for 2-3 years and enjoy it.
    – Luxurious Vacation: Overrated. Do one just to experience it. Then travel like most middle class Americans

    TIME: Very very precious and very underrated. In my first private practice job I had 12 weeks of vacation but Q3 weekend call
    It was terrible. I had to pick my vacation 5-6 months in advance. There was zero Flexobility. I missed a lot of social events. Go to a practice that let you take “random days off with short notice”. Also go for a practice that has “least number of weekend calls”. Weekend work is Terrible and becomes exhausting and annoying very soon.

    I personally regret my choice. It was not worth it. Hope the younger guys choose a different path.

    Good luck.

    Can’t live off of income 2 mil generates. Particularly in expensive states like California. Figure 4% draw down minus taxes which would be 20% Federal plus variable 0-13% state.
    [link=https://taxfoundation.org/how-high-are-capital-gains-taxes-your-state/]https://taxfoundation.org/how-high-are-capital-gains-taxes-your-state/[/link]

    What would you have done with all that free time?
     
    I still think there are ways to job share with 26 weeks off. Lots of time off if someone wants it.
    2 on 1 off groups 17 weeks vaca also still exist.
     
    I consider being wealthy not having to work but still enjoying a lifestyle spending 200-250k per year or so.

    • Unknown Member

      Deleted User
      January 2, 2020 at 5:29 pm

      Quote from drad123

      Can’t live off of income 2 mil generates. Particularly in expensive states like California. Figure 4% draw down minus taxes which would be 20%.

      What would you have done with all that free time?

      I still think there are ways to job share with 26 weeks off. Lots of time off if someone wants it.
      2 on 1 off groups 17 weeks vaca also still exist.

      I consider being wealthy not having to work but still enjoying a lifestyle spending 200-250k per year or so.

       
      – I never said retire and live off 2 mil. I was talking about saving number and how you will feel at different stages. 2 mil is a number that many people feel a bit more secure after that number. 
       
      – As I mentioned above, 12 weeks or 17 weeks off is less important than having a regular schedule with no weekends, no evenings and the flexibility to take days off with short notice. You know what happens if you take 26 weeks off. You will enjoy it first year. But after that, it becomes boring and you will have plenty of useless time. You will do better if you have 5-6 weeks of vacation but a more flexible schedule. 

      – It seems we have different philosophies of life. My goal is never and was never retirement. I enjoy working up to 30-35 hours a week with the flexibility to take some days off when necessary and no evenings and no weekends.  

      • Unknown Member

        Deleted User
        January 2, 2020 at 5:59 pm

        I am sorry you are so unhappy.
        Just as a reality test; most of the successful people I know outside of medicine work very hard. 
        They works nights, many travel, and weekends are commonly spent working. They certainly put more hours in than I do; and my work is predictable, in that it is at the same hospital, and I sleep in my own bed every night.
        Then there are the majority people who are stressed because they are broke. That’s no fun on any level. You might not have known that feeling; but it sucks. 
        There is no free lunch; except from what I hear at the VA…but that’s not free either; our taxes are paying for that.
         
         

        • Unknown Member

          Deleted User
          January 2, 2020 at 6:15 pm

          Quote from boomer

          I am sorry you are so unhappy.
          Just as a reality test; most of the successful people I know outside of medicine work very hard. 
          They works nights, many travel, and weekends are commonly spent working. They certainly put more hours in than I do; and my work is predictable, in that it is at the same hospital, and I sleep in my own bed every night.
          Then there are the majority people who are [b]stressed because they are broke[/b]. That’s no fun on any level. You might not have known that feeling; but it sucks. 
          There is no free lunch; except from what I hear at the VA…but that’s not free either; our taxes are paying for that.

           
          1- Who said I am unhappy? It I made a wrong choice at some point, that doesn’t make me unhappy. But I could have been happier if I had chosen a different path. 

          2- You are seeing things black and white. So are you saying that if someone gets a lifestyle job making 300K, he is broke??????? 
          You are talking about two different ends of spectrum. Very typical for an OCD high achiever doctor. On one hand you talk about working nights, weekends and etc and on the other hand you talk about being broke. There is a HUGE spectrum in between that for some reason you don’t see.
           

          • Unknown Member

            Deleted User
            January 2, 2020 at 6:22 pm

            Sorry, you “sound” regretful.
            Being happier, that’s not a problem.
             
             

          • jeevonbenning_648

            Member
            January 5, 2020 at 3:50 am

            Yes, they think earning $20K a month is broke. Un—–believable.

            I had 4 days of scheduled work over the last 16 days. I take short overseas trips about monthly, and usually don’t need to use my vacation days to do so.

            Enjoyed the hell out of it, there was zero boredom.

            Everyone should heed Hospital-Rads advice. The market will adjust if all the new grads refuse to work nights and weekends. It’s not “part of being a doctor”, it’s something that guy made up to make himself feel better about his suboptimal situation.

            • Unknown Member

              Deleted User
              January 5, 2020 at 4:39 am

              Rebirth, I recall you saying you are already wealthy by other means. So excuse me for taking your advice with a grain of salt.

              I’m not saying everyone slave away. There are different ways of going about this.

            • katiemckee84_223

              Member
              January 5, 2020 at 8:08 am

              Quote from Re3iRtH

              Everyone should heed Hospital-Rads advice. The market will adjust if all the new grads refuse to work nights and weekends. It’s not “part of being a doctor”, it’s something that guy made up to make himself feel better about his suboptimal situation.

               
              Amen.
               
              When women were lining up to marry you as a [future] doctor [i]in med school[/i] in the generations of old, then and only then, was it the same paradigm of profession and respect that might merit a look into “part of being a doctor.”
               
              They changed the rules of the game. Only blue pill people keep playing by the overlords rules and get mad when we tell them the game is a scam; the only way to win is not to play.

              • ruszja

                Member
                January 5, 2020 at 8:32 am

                Quote from Intermittent Blasting

                Quote from Re3iRtH

                Everyone should heed Hospital-Rads advice. The market will adjust if all the new grads refuse to work nights and weekends. It’s not “part of being a doctor”, it’s something that guy made up to make himself feel better about his suboptimal situation.

                Amen.

                When women were lining up to marry you as a [future] doctor [i]in med school[/i] in the generations of old, then and only then, was it the same paradigm of profession and respect that might merit a look into “part of being a doctor.”

                They changed the rules of the game. Only blue pill people keep playing by the overlords rules and get mad when we tell them the game is a scam; the only way to win is not to play.

                You guys sound like you are made for each other. You should meet and swap stories over manly drinks one of these days.

                • Unknown Member

                  Deleted User
                  January 5, 2020 at 8:56 am

                  Same sheet different year

                  Financial or lifestyle thread gets started

                  Many good points initially

                  …. the little guy comes out copying 2006-8 real estate scam pumping ideas …. then he blames women who dont want him for all the worlds problems

                  ….. then guy with multiple aliases comes out and starts jumps on the same women bashing bandwagon……. then he mixed a bit of covert race baiting into the discussion

                  …… then he gets banned again

                  . Few days later he invents another alias and the cycle continues

                  Same sheet different year

              • Unknown Member

                Deleted User
                January 5, 2020 at 9:32 am

                Quote from Intermittent Blasting

                … the only way to win is not to play.

                Who would have thought the WOPR had it figured out four decades ago.

                • mariana.gonzalez_122

                  Member
                  January 5, 2020 at 10:40 am

                  It’s all great insight until this rebirth and his Ilk show up. Overseas vacations. This has to be him right

                  [link]https://youtu.be/tYXFIXWw8Ro[/link]

                  • msc5405

                    Member
                    January 5, 2020 at 10:48 am

                    Quote from touchingcotton

                    It’s all great insight until this rebirth and his Ilk show up. Overseas vacations. This has to be him right

                    [link=https://youtu.be/tYXFIXWw8Ro]https://youtu.be/tYXFIXWw8Ro[/link]

                    I don’t know if I’m more disturbed by the video, or the fact that you know that video exists… It is pretty hilarious, though.

                    • Unknown Member

                      Deleted User
                      January 5, 2020 at 1:29 pm

                      There are a lot of bad jobs out there, but we have amongst the most flexible jobs in all of medicine.  You only want to read plain films?  Fine lots of jobs out there just do to that, where you can roll out of bed and just jump online and start reading…Of course it comes with a pay cut.  You want to do 100% IR or 100% of your subspecialty, you can do that too.  You only want to work weekends, you can do that.  There are an infinite number of combinations, all available to us, many of which come with a paycut.  Bottom line is you should enjoy what you do everyday. 
                       
                      Majority of rads are in golden handcuffs of private practice reading everything across the board – certain studies they dont enjoy reading and also reading longer and a faster pace than they would like – The trade off being the highest rate per hour you will ever get paid…Then they hate going into work and just want to retire. Basically they are slaves to their jobs and don’t want to get out because after 15-20 years they are completely free and dont ever have to work again.  VS Im only making 1/2 to 1/3 of what you private practice guys are making and I’m in in a shitty corporate job or full time telerad reading studie I dont like to read at a very fast uncomfortable pace and have to work 20-30 years (worst case scenario) VS I’m only making 1/2 to 1/3 of what you private practice guys make but I only read the studies I like to read, and I only read at the hours I desire to read – it doesnt even feel like im working, I could work forever.  There are many different iterations, but the majority are of the mentality of suck it up for 15-20 years and then quit all of radiology / forever free from work…Certainly declining reimbursements and AI takeover would argue for this approach, however the more sensible thing would be a more balanced approach and find a job where you are working at a comfortable pace, reading only the studies you enjoy, and only reading at the hours you enjoy reading…in fact the work is so perfect it doesnt even feel like you are working…Take the substantial paycut doing this and “work till the day you die” but it won’t feel like work because it’s so easy.  Financial independence is over rated in my opinion, but I’m still a fan of banking a lot of money early on so that you can let compound interest do the work for you.  In the end, everyone always chooses money because they are coming out of training with so much debt, not sure how many of these people choose more sensible jobs for themselves 10 years out.  

      • Unknown Member

        Deleted User
        January 2, 2020 at 6:08 pm

        What happens if all young rads take the OPs advice? If a whole generation of rads opts for jobs with no evening or weekend responsibilities who picks up the slack?

        I really have nothing against those who choose the lifestyle path, but by necessity it has to be the minority. In my mind, working some nights and weekends is just part of being a doctor. Mind you, maintaining balance in your life is important and I will feel no guilt when I decide in my 50s that I am no longer willing to work nights or weekends and either accept a lower paycheck or retire early.

        • ruszja

          Member
          January 2, 2020 at 10:45 pm

          Quote from fumoney

          What happens if all young rads take the OPs advice? If a whole generation of rads opts for jobs with no evening or weekend responsibilities who picks up the slack? [/Quote]

          What happens ? It strengthens the hand of the large telerad outfits and academic megapractices who are big enough to hire FT folks to work gravsyard, 5pm to 1am and other less desirable shifts.

          I really have nothing against those who choose the lifestyle path, but by necessity it has to be the minority. In my mind, working some nights and weekends is just part of being a doctor.

          We all knew what we signed up for. There are rewards from the profession, but there are also sacrifices required. Taking care of patients at odd hours and on weekends is part of the deal.

          Mind you, maintaining balance in your life is important and I will feel no guilt when I decide in my 50s that I am no longer willing to work nights or weekends and either accept a lower paycheck or retire early.

          And that is ok too. The new thing is that people like to start in semi-retirement at the outset of their career.

          • Unknown Member

            Deleted User
            January 3, 2020 at 9:10 am

            Quote from fw

            Quote from fumoney

            What happens if all young rads take the OPs advice? If a whole generation of rads opts for jobs with no evening or weekend responsibilities who picks up the slack? [/Quote]

            What happens ? It strengthens the hand of the large telerad outfits and academic megapractices who are big enough to hire FT folks to work gravsyard, 5pm to 1am and other less desirable shifts.

            I really have nothing against those who choose the lifestyle path, but by necessity it has to be the minority. In my mind, working some nights and weekends is just part of being a doctor.

            We all knew what we signed up for. There are rewards from the profession, but there are also sacrifices required. Taking care of patients at odd hours and on weekends is part of the deal.

            Mind you, maintaining balance in your life is important and I will feel no guilt when I decide in my 50s that I am no longer willing to work nights or weekends and either accept a lower paycheck or retire early.

            And that is ok too. The new thing is that people like to start in semi-retirement at the outset of their career.

            Excellent point. This “lifestyle mentality” would be a short road to serfdom. Corps are selling this hard!

            • Dr_Cocciolillo

              Member
              January 3, 2020 at 9:27 am

              No universal truths.  I feel that getting into a good PP and working hard till about 40 where you have cleared your debts and hopefully put a decent foundation of money is important. But this all depends on multiple factors including what else you’d like to do in your free time and how demanding the practice is.  i would NOT work 20 weekends a year to earn an extra 60k for instance but i might give up 2 weeks of vacation if the price is right.   I would also not chose a practice where the average day is 10 hrs and the wRVU expectation is 65+.   Lastly, if kids are very young (1-3) seeing them for a few hours a day is fine.   IF they are 5+, they want you more and more…i’d make sure i attended most of their activities as much as possible.  
              lastly, as has been beaten to death in multiple threads, try to marry up or equal.  the biggest obstacle to wealth is a non working spouse or one who makes 1/4 or less of what you do and figures out that she can do as she pleases and ask for whatever she wants.  

              • ruszja

                Member
                January 3, 2020 at 10:38 am

                Quote from wisdom

                lastly, as has been beaten to death in multiple threads, try to marry up or equal.  the biggest obstacle to wealth is a non working spouse or one who makes 1/4 or less of what you do and figures out that she can do as she pleases and ask for whatever she wants.  

                Biggest obstacle to wealth is divorce and/or profligate spending. A non-working spouse who pulls their weight in the home and is happy to drive a minivan is a net plus. A lawyer wife who ‘needs’ a range Rover, a weekday nanny, a weekend nanny and a two week vacation in Greece is not.

                • Dr_Cocciolillo

                  Member
                  January 3, 2020 at 10:41 am

                  well said.  but…you can’t predict how people will evolve in 10 or 15 years.  i have a partner who is in essence hostage to his non working wife.  she wants to buy a house in location x so she can spend time there during the winters while he stays behind and works his ass off.  complete madness.  buying the 2nd house is cheaper than divorce.  but is this what it’s about? 

                  • ruszja

                    Member
                    January 3, 2020 at 4:17 pm

                    Quote from wisdom

                    well said.  but…you can’t predict how people will evolve in 10 or 15 years.  i have a partner who is in essence hostage to his non working wife.  she wants to buy a house in location x so she can spend time there during the winters while he stays behind and works his ass off.  complete madness.  buying the 2nd house is cheaper than divorce.  but is this what it’s about? 

                    Did we happen to work in the same group ?

                    Yes, no telling what the future brings. Marrying the spouse with the high income potential alone doesn’t mean they continue to contribute. I probably know more women with a law degree who chose marriage to a surgeon or radiologist as their career path than I know women who practice law.

                • rhiannonsmith84

                  Member
                  January 3, 2020 at 10:44 am

                  If you’re young enough, divorce can be great for your income!  You can nearly double it[:)]

                  • Unknown Member

                    Deleted User
                    January 3, 2020 at 11:27 am

                    With all my respects for female physicians, in my experience most women who make within 100K of your salary are not datable. Many are very high maintenance (princess complex). They think they make a lot of money (more than other women) so the guy has to bend backwards to be with them. Also some of them are in the bottom 20-30 percentile when it comes to looks.

                    Before chewing my neck, I myself agree that there are some attractive and down-to-earth successful women out there. But the odds of finding someone who makes similar salary to you (only 2 percent of population) AND is attractive AND is a good match is close to zero.

                    Forget about how much she makes and the chances of finding a great woman goes up exponentially. If her salary is a determining factor, you are exluding 98 % of population.

          • Unknown Member

            Deleted User
            January 3, 2020 at 4:18 pm

            Quote from fw

            Quote from fumoney

            What happens if all young rads take the OPs advice? If a whole generation of rads opts for jobs with no evening or weekend responsibilities who picks up the slack? [/Quote]

            What happens ? It strengthens the hand of the large telerad outfits and academic megapractices who are big enough to hire FT folks to work gravsyard, 5pm to 1am and other less desirable shifts.

            I really have nothing against those who choose the lifestyle path, but by necessity it has to be the minority. In my mind, working some nights and weekends is just part of being a doctor.

            We all knew what we signed up for. There are rewards from the profession, but there are also sacrifices required. Taking care of patients at odd hours and on weekends is part of the deal.

            Mind you, maintaining balance in your life is important and I will feel no guilt when I decide in my 50s that I am no longer willing to work nights or weekends and either accept a lower paycheck or retire early.

            And that is ok too. The new thing is that people like to start in semi-retirement at the outset of their career.

             
            ^^ This. 
            I get that no one wants to be taken advantage; avoiding predatory practices certainly is wise. But really, we are physicians. I encourage you to read your medical school application essays; what did you think you were committing to when you wrote them? 
             

            • Unknown Member

              Deleted User
              January 3, 2020 at 5:09 pm

              I dont know what the above comment about med school applications and aspirations to become a physician has to do with anything.

              Some of the shoddiest work Ive seen come from rads in my group who choose to work 60 hours a week, and whose reports and reputation among clinicians is that they are way past caring.

              Working part time does not mean that you dont take your share of nights or evenings or are not committed to doing good work.

              Working fewer hours than many full-time radiologist partners is not being less committed to our patients, its about being less committed to making even more money at the expense of other parts of your life.

              My 2 cents.

              • consuldreugenio

                Member
                January 3, 2020 at 5:40 pm

                I would shoot for financial independence off the jump. I would pay off student loans in less than 5 years. Save 100k+/yr in retirement and taxable accounts. Buy modest house if possible. When Ive accumulated 2M+ by my mid 40s-early 50s, I will have the option to go part time.

                This can be done while still having decent vacation and lifestyle…at least compared to other high paying specialties. Also, its better to maximize income now while thats still an option. Healthcare changes, corporate takeover, mergers and AI are threats to private practice.

                Hospital rad should have the option of going part time, moving to a coast, moving closer to family or a combination. Probably should have done this earlier. Still has a lot of life left to live with lots of $$.

                • Melenas

                  Member
                  January 5, 2020 at 4:03 pm

                  I like this answer below.
                   
                  Also, I think we should all be very thank full we have our jobs. There aren’t many jobs out there that will allow you to work hard and become a million in 5 years or less. 
                   
                  Just like in the real world, the rich get richer and the poor get well something. The older rads in my group have millions and so the extra 30k or 50k increase in income here an there is just pocket change. Their net worth keeps going up. As we all know it is a harder climb in the early stages but in your late 50s/60s the extra effort you put into work translates into a lot more ‘net worth’. That maybe why older folks still work..  its easy money… its not like you have to battle in out like an NFL line man. you are doing what you were doing for the past 20 years. maybe learn a thing or two here and there. 
                   

                  Quote from Umichfan

                  I would shoot for financial independence off the jump. I would pay off student loans in less than 5 years. Save 100k+/yr in retirement and taxable accounts. Buy modest house if possible. When Ive accumulated 2M+ by my mid 40s-early 50s, I will have the option to go part time.

                  This can be done while still having decent vacation and lifestyle…at least compared to other high paying specialties. Also, its better to maximize income now while thats still an option. Healthcare changes, corporate takeover, mergers and AI are threats to private practice.

                  Hospital rad should have the option of going part time, moving to a coast, moving closer to family or a combination. Probably should have done this earlier. Still has a lot of life left to live with lots of $$.

                  • ljohnson_509

                    Member
                    January 5, 2020 at 4:11 pm

                    ^^ It aint easy money. High volume evening and weekend work doesnt get easier with age. The liability doesnt get better. The constant sitting and staring at a monitor for hours doesnt get easier, The older rads may be working because of poor decisions and divorces.

                    • jeevonbenning_648

                      Member
                      January 5, 2020 at 11:49 pm

                      The constant sitting and staring at a monitor for hours doesnt get easier, The older rads are working because of poor decisions and divorces.

                      Fixed it for ya

              • ruszja

                Member
                January 3, 2020 at 5:49 pm

                Quote from Flounce

                I dont know what the above comment about med school applications and aspirations to become a physician has to do with anything.

                I believe it was a reply to my stated opinion that taking care of patients at off hours and on the weekend is part of the job we signed up to do when we applied for medschool.

      • radiologistkahraman_799

        Member
        January 2, 2020 at 6:10 pm

        26 weeks would seem to be pretty GD flexible. Jesus

  • Unknown Member

    Deleted User
    January 2, 2020 at 3:36 pm

    Quote from Jimboboy

     Human nature. We value things we have the least of.

    Ask an ill person what’s most important in life. He will say health.
    Ask an old wealthy guy, he will say time.
    Ask a student business major, success.
    Ask a young rad in debt about to start his career, money.
    Sorry to say, your age did not bring about wisdom. You no longer have time and youth on your side so those things all of a sudden seem important above all else.

    Well said. 
     
    Also one doesn’t have to do q2 weekend call to make 650k- not yet.

    • Unknown Member

      Deleted User
      January 2, 2020 at 4:44 pm

      There needs to be more groups out there who do not believe in working nights, weekends, or holidays – This is precious time and is much better sold to someone else for coverage.  Take the paycut, it is more than worth it.  I think every rad enjoys cranking out 8-5 and making as much as they can in that time frame Monday-Friday with all holidays and weekends off.  There are so many telerads out there in shitty gigs that would be happy to cover those holiday and weekend shifts at normal onsite private practice day rates.    

      • Unknown Member

        Deleted User
        January 2, 2020 at 5:12 pm

        Quote from striker79

        There needs to be more groups out there who do not believe in working nights, weekends, or holidays – This is precious time and is much better sold to someone else for coverage.  Take the paycut, it is more than worth it.  I think every rad enjoys cranking out 8-5 and making as much as they can in that time frame Monday-Friday with all holidays and weekends off.  There are so many telerads out there in shitty gigs that would be happy to cover those holiday and weekend shifts at normal onsite private practice day rates.    

        Basically you are describing the VA minus the cranking.

  • Unknown Member

    Deleted User
    January 2, 2020 at 6:39 pm

    Quote from boomer

    Sorry, you “sound” regretful.
    Being happier, that’s not a problem.

     
    You can regret some of your decisions in the past and still be happy. 

    Is there anybody especially after a certain age who doesn’t have some regrets?  
     

    • Dr_Cocciolillo

      Member
      January 2, 2020 at 6:58 pm

      In every stage of life , there are some regrets. No one nails it

      • ranweiss

        Member
        January 2, 2020 at 8:17 pm

        Just chiming in as a resident graduating this spring.
         
        I appreciate the advice of the older rads who say to take the lifestyle gig , make 250k, and enjoy time off. However, reality is so different for those off us in training than it was 20 or 30 years ago.
         
        Most of my co-residents are 300+k in debt. We are in our early 30’s, and have no real savings, no real retirement account, haven’t taken any nice vacations, and all too often live in cramped apartments with our spouses and kids. Radiology is a 6 year residency. Almost as long as neurosurgery. Our spouses and families have had to sacrifice and push back all their own material desires and comfort because of our career path.
         
        And now, AI, Corporate takeover / RP, dwindling reimbursements, etc etc are all on the horizon, and you are telling us to take a job that earns less than half of our income potential?
         
        You have to agree that it seems like madness on my end.
         
        For those of us lucky enough to be loan or debt free (aka rich parents/spouse), and have lived a fun life with good vacations / date nights / nice cars etc etc, great. 
         
        But for that 32 year old fellow with hundreds of thousands in debt living in a 1 bedroom apartment and driving a 15 year old Toyota prius…skip the partner job and work for hospitalist pay after all this sacrifice? get Real.

        • Unknown Member

          Deleted User
          January 2, 2020 at 8:46 pm

          Good thread!
           
          Jimbo, there are some profound thoughts in your post.
           
          One could suggest giving people more credit.  The things that folks eventually realize are most valuable trend toward what their true value most likely is.  Not saying you are wrong; just offering a credible (and sunnier) alternative hypothesis :).
           
          drad123 makes a funny and good point.  What are the young to do with all their time?  Well, the work itself is meaningful; before we forget, radiology is a worthy and meaningful career, and a radiologist is in position to directly and positively impact the lives of dozens if not hundreds of people every day.  Acquiring resources to provide for one’s family is also a worthy goal.  The fact that radiology can accomplish both of these objectives simultaneously and very well makes it a darn good use of one’s time.
           
          I would suggest that it is perfectly reasonable for the young grads to want to work hard.  And perhaps they should.  The world needs their help, they can do a lot of good, and one cannot store or hoard time: every New Year’s has a way of arriving whether one is reading studies or reading Tolstoy.  It’s totally cool to rack up some bucks, pay off some debt and finally take the kids to Disney World.
           
          lAlong those lines, I would suggest that while they are working hard that they also set aside some of that time for the people they are acquiring resources for.  Take one’s significant other on a date once a week, call your parents at least once every couple of weeks, and get a dog, cat, or both.  One never regrets those things.
           

          • katiemckee84_223

            Member
            January 3, 2020 at 7:15 pm

            It depends on your situation and the way you see the world. If you have a family and your life is over, just keep working; it doesn’t matter what I say, you will anyway, my advice like H-Rad’s is also ramp it down and make 300 laughing to the bank with no stress in a job like VA or whatever you want. Especially in big cities, for a single man (the point of resources is women, ultimately) you get sick of the sluts, or blue dyed hair hippies, or women trying to be men, which makes them unattractive. So, you see how women really should be — and go to other parts of the world. It really is as simple as all of this.

            • Unknown Member

              Deleted User
              January 4, 2020 at 6:24 am

              Say what?
              So many threads devolve into derogatory posts about women.
              Where is Dr. Freud when you need him?
              Absolutely amazing.

              • katiemckee84_223

                Member
                January 4, 2020 at 8:53 am

                Only a boomer (and “progressive” to boot) doesn’t consider reality. I obviously have a style that accentuates the message, but putting it in the category of “derogatory” is lacking all critical thinking. There is nothing “derogatory” about telling it how it is. Your generation led to the decline we had, particularly in the delusions it gave women, which have hurt both sexes. Before you state that I’m some salty loser (which you have no idea about but emotional fools always resort to this madness), start to look around and actually think about life and evolutionary biology. Nicholson’s line “I think of a man and take away reason and accountability” is funny because it gets at the truth. The reasons it approaches the truth are because this is how we as humans evolved. It’s actually why the so called “patriarchy” was selected for and the only reason we are even having this discussion on inventions only dreamed about, potentially across the world, eons ago.
                 
                The advanced civilizations people are piggybacking on right now (and destroying) gives the uncritical thinker the idea that somehow what’s been going on is good and better than the past. Newsflash, everyone is complaining about it all, regardless of political views! People can’t even admit this fact, that’s it’s all degrading. But keep supporting welfare for those that don’t vote, transfer payments to single moms off of working man’s tax revenue (running out), meanwhile replacement population is from immigration and non-selection … and tell me why you think things will get better. People and civilizations are “all the same” … yet all want to come to a handful of the countries with a history that provided for it. And now want to erase their identity.
                 
                Don’t be surprised that it’s not the same when the replacement (the goal for some) is complete. The lack of understanding of history and critical thinking of the modern day is astounding.

                • Unknown Member

                  Deleted User
                  January 4, 2020 at 12:35 pm

                  You need a hug.

                  • afazio.uk_887

                    Member
                    January 4, 2020 at 12:47 pm

                    Hmmm…. in general I would agree with Hospital Rad’s basic philosophy, however, Radiology is undergoing significant changes right now and many young newly minted Rads have invested a lot of time and effort into the field which today I feel has an uncertain future income potential.  I think if I were coming out right now I would go to a smaller traditional PP model in a relatively less desirable location and make the bank for the next 5-10 yrs while it is still there.  I would enjoy the money some but also aggressively pay down debt and invest (yes, you can easily do both as a Rad PP partner).   After that, while still young in early 40s, take the foot off the gas and find a more lifestyle friendly position or even consider telerads from home. 
                     
                     

              • jeevonbenning_648

                Member
                January 5, 2020 at 2:59 pm

                Any then you Mr. White Knight comes in to defend them, even if what was said is accurate and justified. I wonder what else you tolerate of your spouse to do (actually I don’t even want to know). Have you checked your test levels? I’m sure your buddy can write you a Rx for TRT

        • Unknown Member

          Deleted User
          January 2, 2020 at 9:52 pm

          No one said to skip the partnership job. Separate issue. I think a partnership track job with a good group can be one of the best options.

          Having lots of debt certainly puts pressure on you to take the highest paying job. The counter-argument to that is that after all the hard work, sacrifice, and debt incurred, you owe it yourself to have a fulfilling career that allows you to enjoy the daily practice of radiology; to prioritize your relationships and spend time with those you care about; and to be able to work on personal development outside of work.

          (BTW, you mentioned Prius. Im 10 years into practice and drive a nice 2007 Prius I bought last year for $7000, its a great car for residents and attendings alike.)

        • timhaaga

          Member
          January 2, 2020 at 10:37 pm

          This underscores a lack of financial knowledge.  I will help you.
           
          What you are trying to say is – residents want to quickly increase their net worth once becoming an attending. 
           
          A doctor’s net worth is only about 20% dependent on income. The other 80% is savings/investing rate. Read “The Millionaire Next Door” – this is their statistics based on huge sample sizes. 
           
          In other words, a Rad making 250-300k can easily have a net worth higher than a Rad making 500k. Don’t get hung up on income numbers. It’s what you do with the income that is important. 

          • ranweiss

            Member
            January 3, 2020 at 10:03 am

            Quote from noondoo

            This underscores a lack of financial knowledge.  I will help you.

            What you are trying to say is – residents want to quickly increase their net worth once becoming an attending. 

            A doctor’s net worth is only about 20% dependent on income. The other 80% is savings/investing rate. Read “The Millionaire Next Door” – this is their statistics based on huge sample sizes. 

            In other words, a Rad making 250-300k can easily have a net worth higher than a Rad making 500k. Don’t get hung up on income numbers. It’s what you do with the income that is important. 

             
            I’ve read it. And white coat investor, and a whole bunch of other financial stuff including FIRE mentality etc.
             
            I guess my perspective is this:
             
            I can’t guarantee we will keep getting paid the types of income we are currently getting. I understand that one doesn’t have to kill themselves and make 8xx a year. I’m extremely happy with 60% of that. However, while the getting is good, I’m going to get it. Not to necessarily have a ‘doctors lifestyle’ – But to try and live on half that partner salary, and save / invest the rest, letting compound interest do the work over time. My goal is to try and earn 5-6xx but live on 3xx.
             
            If I work a ‘regular’ PP partner type job (One that is hard, has some weekend calls, and some late days, but also plenty of vacation etc) for 15 years, I should be ‘financially independent’ before I’m 50. And yeah, at that point who cares if my salary gets cut in half…Until then, Work hard / save hard is my mentality.

  • mcampbell_392

    Member
    January 2, 2020 at 8:10 pm

    Hospital Rads post is 100% true.  
    Time is our most precious commodity. 
    New grads, listen to Hospital Rads wisdom. 
     

  • msc5405

    Member
    January 3, 2020 at 10:21 am

    I think if you earn 5xx and spend 3xx you’ll have 0xx in the bank account after taxes.
     
    I took the highest paying job with the most time off. It’s not in LA or NYC. It’s not in Iowa either. Paying off debt was paramount, but so was sanity. I pick up a shift here and there, but I still have more time off than average.
     
    But yes, live below one’s means, invest, and don’t get divorced. 

  • Unknown Member

    Deleted User
    January 3, 2020 at 6:21 pm

    Quote from fw

    Quote from Flounce

    I dont know what the above comment about med school applications and aspirations to become a physician has to do with anything.

    I believe it was a reply to my stated opinion that taking care of patients at off hours and on the weekend is part of the job we signed up to do when we applied for medschool.

     
    ^^ Yes.

  • Unknown Member

    Deleted User
    January 4, 2020 at 3:09 pm

    Nice to see Hospital rad climbing Maslow’s pyramid.

  • jeevonbenning_648

    Member
    January 5, 2020 at 3:35 am

    I commend you for sharing this openly. My question to you is, when did you come to this realization?

    Quote from Hospital-Rad

    Recently a current fellow asked me about my recommendations about jobs.
    This is my recommendations:

    As a person who has worked in real private practice for my entire career of 20 years and have made a $hitload of money, my recommendation to younger guys is to go for a “lifestyle” job.

    Beyond a certain point, money is way overrated. “Time” is very underrated. Get a lifestyle job, make an average doctor’s salary of 200-250K, live a middle class lifestyle (which is very good in US) and not “doctor’s lifestyle” and enjoy your time.

    My experience:
    – Networth: The first 2 mil was very exciting. After that it was just a number. Never made me happy.
    – House: Another overrated piece of crap that you can buy.
    – Cars: A Camry can do the job well. Anyway, you can lease a BMW for 2-3 years and enjoy it.
    – Luxurious Vacation: Overrated. Do one just to experience it. Then travel like most middle class Americans

    TIME: Very very precious and very underrated. In my first private practice job I had 12 weeks of vacation but Q3 weekend call
    It was terrible. I had to pick my vacation 5-6 months in advance. There was zero Flexobility. I missed a lot of social events. Go to a practice that let you take “random days off with short notice”. Also go for a practice that has “least number of weekend calls”. Weekend work is Terrible and becomes exhausting and annoying very soon.

    I personally regret my choice. It was not worth it. Hope the younger guys choose a different path.

    Good luck.

  • Unknown Member

    Deleted User
    January 5, 2020 at 8:04 am

    Quote from Re3iRtH

    Yes, they think earning $20K a month is broke. Un—–believable.

    I had 4 days of scheduled work over the last 16 days. I take short overseas trips about monthly, and usually don’t need to use my vacation days to do so.

    Enjoyed the hell out of it, there was zero boredom.

    Everyone should heed Hospital-Rads advice. The market will adjust if all the new grads refuse to work nights and weekends. It’s not “part of being a doctor”, it’s something that guy made up to make himself feel better about his suboptimal situation.

     
    “I had 4 days of scheduled work over the last 16 days. I take short overseas trips about monthly, and usually don’t need to use my vacation days to do so.”
     
    That sounds like fraud; or AWOL.
     
    Your “overseas” trips give me the creeps.
     

    • jeevonbenning_648

      Member
      January 5, 2020 at 2:46 pm

      It sounds like taking a pass vs. leave. Passes don’t use your vacation days. Glad you’re checking up on me though. I want to be just like you one day (not).

  • Unknown Member

    Deleted User
    January 5, 2020 at 8:48 am

    Beyond a certain point, time is way overrated. “Quality” is very underrated or at least difficult to achieve.

    Don’t chase after time like you did money. Quality trumps quantity.

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