[ipadfawazipad_778]

Uh some do.   Rotated in family medicine and saw drug reps making sure they rewarded.  Don’t underestimate power of big pharm.  Not saying Trump great, just pointing out my experience.   All of the past presidents have done good and bath things.  They have also sometimes not told the truth.   Don’t really see what calling somebody a liar other to their face accomplishes.

[Unknown Member]

Uhhhhh no

That would be illegal

Kick backs are illegal

Now if you want to say less than 1% of physicians take money from big pharma ok

But that was not the intent of the statement

The statement said Doctors make more money for prescribing more expensive drugs

That was the statement

[Dr_Cocciolillo]

Akoman , such nonsense.

[ariesanurhani_334]

Such nonsense, much wow.

[Unknown Member]

We are all just greedy doctors

Milking the poor public of their life savings

[ariesanurhani_334]

I blame the med schools and universities for all the crippling debt. We’re not greedy, we’re just trying to make our balance not be -$500,000.
 

[leann2001nl]

Kpack is back

[Unknown Member]

Some of you
Still sore (literally and figuratively)

[ipadfawazipad_778]

Nonsense? It happens. Maybe not all, but at least some. Im sure the 1% number quoted above is from a reputable source. Just because something is illegal doesnt mean it doesnt happen.

I bet you also believe their are no kickbacks to division one NCAA athletes.

There are always ways to get around what is illegal and still provide kickback.

Give the kickback to a family member. Have a third party make a gift. These are just two common ways kickbacks happen that are not illegal.

People need to wake up and not live in fantasyland

Maybe its just because Trump said it? Hope not. I dont particulate for him, but even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes.

[Unknown Member]

No

Giving a kickback to a family member or through a third party is still illegal

You honestly did not know that?

[ipadfawazipad_778]

Hence in quotation marks. Its still illegal by the letter of the law but they do get around it. Live in denial if you want.

Not that I care, but look at both Trump and Bidens family members getting cushy high paying jobs.

Examples to make it more clear. NCAA player has a standout game. Car dealership who is official sponsor of university sports sees to it that the dealer of same brand in the players family gets his mom a deal on the car for starting a new job there. They son gets to drive the car in moms name.

[ruszja]

Some physicians get kickbacks and some directly profit of expensive medications they administer in their office. In oncology, rheumatology and retina surgery, a substantial portion of your income is based on those kickback schemes. Not as lucrative as it used to be after medicare capped the upcharges, but that’s where the various schemes come in to get around the restriction.
 
I am suprised a practicing physician wouldn’t know that.

[Unknown Member]

But you dont make policy decisions based on illegal behavior of a very few and then paint the rest of the profession as greedy pigs

If you want to say

Unscrupulous physicians are in cahoots with drug companies to make more money

Ok Im fine with that

But make a blanket statement of

Doctors make more money by prescribing expensive drugs

Thats bull shoot and just not accurate

Paints all of us as greedy pigs

[tdetlie_105]

Quote from Chirorad84

Trump press conference

Just said Doctors get paid more if they prescribe more expensive drugs

Seriously how any physician
Supports this fool and group of fools is pathetic

 
Never voted for Trump but would say most vote for the brand (R/D) and not the individual.  Obama said that physicians would rather amputate a diabetics foot versus manage their DM bc its was more lucrative.  Not sure if he was aware that surgeons are not the ones managing DM but regardless, politicians from both sides talk the same BS/nonsense 

[Unknown Member]

Show me where he said that

[ipadfawazipad_778]

Agreed. He should have more correctly said some doctors, rather than implying all. Beyond pain killers, I leave all the prescriptions to the REAL doctors.

[ruszja]

Quote from Chirorad84

Show me where he said that

 
He DID say that.
 
At his ‘healthcare townhall’ in NH in August 2009.
 
Trump has no monopoly on demagoguery and broad generalizations.

[julie.young_645]

In living color:
 
[link]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG56B2et4M8[/link]
 
And don’t forget the tonsillectomy comment:
 
[link]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhNeGYYPgIE[/link]
 
I’m sure there is a DSM classification for the intense, irrational [i]rage[/i] against Trump and [i]ONLY[/i] against Trump that is [i]not[/i] aroused against a Democrat when said Democrat says something even worse. 

[kayla.meyer_144]

Yes, do let’s compare a couple of dumb statements by one to another’s lifetime of lying.
 
Even now as the lying lifer complains the election was stolen by the most brilliant criminal minds in history who left no trace at all of cheating & theft.
 
Must be all those undocumented people voting in Red States where their voting laws are lax.
 
[attachment=0]
 
 

[Unknown Member]

Oh wait The pious Dr Dalai has now posted

Be careful because he may start crying like a 3 yr old baby and get you all banned

[Unknown Member]

I urge everyone to go look at the honorable Dr Dalai you tube post and listen to Obamas comments on amputation

I agree with what Obama said 200%

He said

we reimburse surgeons and hospitals 30,000$ for an amputation

So why not reimburse primary care doctors better for preventative care

Now please tell me whats wrong with that statement

[Unknown Member]

Obama said

So why not reimburse primary care doctors better for preventative care

Trump says

doctors make more money for prescribing more expensive drugs

Which statement is more reasonable

[Unknown Member]

All republicans have are lies and conspiracy and he heard she heard and worthless apples to orangan comparisons

No facts

No truth

[clickpenguin_460]

Quote from Chirorad84

Obama said

So why not reimburse primary care doctors better for preventative care

Trump says

doctors make more money for prescribing more expensive drugs

Which statement is more reasonable

 
 
If the assumption is that we have bad preventative/primary care because we don’t pay primary care docs enough, then that’s just not true.  Paying primary care doctors more wouldn’t make them any better or make outcomes any better.  Getting patients to show up and actually do what they’re supposed to do is the only way that’s going to get better and I have no idea how to fix that.

[Unknown Member]

In 2008 that was exactly the assumption and it was very true

While most primary care are still underpaid they have made gains since then

But the point remains

Trump said doctors get paid more for prescribing more expensive drugs

Thats fact sully false

Obama points out a problem with our system that was very true at the time

and again an apples to orangutan comparison

[clickpenguin_460]

Do primary care doctors need to be paid more?  Yes, probably.
 
But that’s not why primary care/preventative care isn’t good.
 
I can see why you’d say that though as the solution for all problems from liberals is to “throw money at it.” 
 
If you want to throw money at it then give patients bonuses for showing up and taking their meds.

[kayla.meyer_144]

And here is some information regarding these no-shows and why they are no-shows.
 
[link=https://www.statnews.com/2016/04/15/preventive-care-public-health/]https://www.statnews.com/…ve-care-public-health/[/link]
 

Preventive care, such as immunizations and screenings for cancer and high blood pressure, saves lives. So why arent millions of Americans getting these relatively inexpensive services?
 
We were recently involved in a new report that analyzed prevention measures across all 50 states. It looked at prevention through the lenses of access to health care, immunizations, and efforts to prevent chronic disease. The final report, United Health Foundations [link=http://www.americashealthrankings.org/Spotlight/Prevention]Americas Health Rankings Spotlight: Prevention[/link], released in partnership with the American College of Preventive of Medicine, revealed troubling disparities in access to recommended preventive care.
 
Having a dedicated health care provider is key to overall prevention. Yet about 40 percent of Hispanic adults said they didnt have dedicated health care provider, compared with 23 percent of non-Hispanic black adults and 18 percent of non-Hispanic white adults. According to the spotlight report, having a dedicated health care provider was highly linked to getting screened for colorectal cancer.
 
Income mattered, too. Barely half of adults ages 50 to 74 with annual incomes less than $25,000 reported getting colorectal cancer screening, compared with nearly three-quarters of those making $75,000 or more. Geography also played a role. Childhood immunization rates ranged from 63 percent in West Virginia to 84 percent in Maine.
 
These findings should serve as a call to action for the public and private sector, for public health professionals and clinicians, and for individuals and communities.

 
[size=”0″][link=https://patientengagementhit.com/news/does-the-aca-drive-patient-access-to-primary-preventive-care]https://patientengagement…rimary-preventive-care[/link][/size]
 

Healthcare coverage via the Affordable Care Act (ACA) has increased the number of patients receiving primary preventive care, according to [link=http://www.ajmc.com/journals/issue/2017/2017-vol23-n3/Improvements-in-Access-and-Care-Through-the-Affordable-Care-Act]research[/link] published in the [i]American Journal of Managed Care[/i].
A major goal of the Affordable Care Act (ACA) is to increase access to healthcare, particularly for those who are uninsured, underinsured, or without stable healthcare insurance, the researchers explained.

 
 

[clickpenguin_460]

I totally get what you’re trying to say.  I really do.  I just don’t think adding 5 bucks to this procedure or this diagnosis here and there will change those things. 
 
Just think of yourself.  If you got 20,000 more bucks a year, would your patient outcomes change?  Would your primary care friends’ outcomes change?  I highly doubt it.
 
I do think that they should be paid more though.  They have crap jobs dealing with the public like that all day and most of them are being told what to do from less educated admin types.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Quote from Cubsfan10

Paying primary care doctors more wouldn’t make them any better or make outcomes any better.  Getting patients to show up and actually do what they’re supposed to do is the only way that’s going to get better and I have no idea how to fix that.

People not showing up for preventative/primary care is the reason for worse outcomes in US?
 
So what is the reason they are no shows driving down outcomes?
 
& here’s a proposal to improve primary care incomes by paying according to outcomes. Hmmm, better than reimbursement?
 
[link=https://www.statnews.com/2019/04/22/us-health-officials-overhaul-primary-care/]https://www.statnews.com/…overhaul-primary-care/[/link]

[clickpenguin_460]

Yes, patient noncompliance is the bigger reason for failure.  Not the amount of money doctors make.
 
How would paying a primary care doctor more money change anything?  Would you provide better outcomes if you were paid more?  You might work more/longer but I doubt the outcomes on the patient side would be any different.
 
But, by all means, just throw more money at it and see what happens.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Quote from Cubsfan10

Yes, patient noncompliance is the bigger reason for failure.  Not the amount of money doctors make.

How would paying a primary care doctor more money change anything?  Would you provide better outcomes if you were paid more?  You might work more/longer but I doubt the outcomes on the patient side would be any different.

But, by all means, just throw more money at it and see what happens.

I never ever claimed such.
 
I am not of the opinion that paying physicians increases quality of care. They are unrelated. 
 
I do ask the question that with specialist incomes so high, what is the reason primary care physicians’ incomes are so much lower?

[clickpenguin_460]

Quote from Frumious

Quote from Cubsfan10

Yes, patient noncompliance is the bigger reason for failure.  Not the amount of money doctors make.

How would paying a primary care doctor more money change anything?  Would you provide better outcomes if you were paid more?  You might work more/longer but I doubt the outcomes on the patient side would be any different.

But, by all means, just throw more money at it and see what happens.

I never ever claimed such.

I am not of the opinion that paying physicians increases quality of care. They are unrelated. 

I do ask the question that with specialist incomes so high, what is the reason primary care physicians’ incomes are so much lower?

 
The payments for specialty care are higher because they require a higher level of expertise and training.
 
For example, I worked a year at a free clinic as a “primary care doc” and I’m a radiologist.  I’m sure I didn’t set the world on fire but it’s within my realm of capability.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Yes, as in most things, higher training and expertise usually does translate into better incomes. But what should the “base” income be considering the primary care physician is just that, the “primary” physician. 

[clickpenguin_460]

Well, I’m of the opinion that ALL physicians should be paid more and we all should be in charge of our “businesses” much more than we are.  The entire healthcare industry runs off of physicians billing and we let hospitals and admin types control it/us.
 
I’m not sure what a fair floor is because I don’t believe in making artificial floors/ceilings but maybe something around 300k/year. 
 
Certainly I think it’s asinine that a lot of primary care docs out there work for 180/200 when NPs are making 130 and CRNAs the same.

[Unknown Member]

Again the point

Trump totally lied

Obama pointed out a reality of our system at that time

Apples to orangutan

[ruszja]

Quote from Chirorad84

Again the point

Trump totally lied

Obama pointed out a reality of our system at that time

Apples to orangutan

Bu11sheet. They both made the exactly same false and slanderous argument. Surgeons don’t treat diabetes and the great majority of docs don’t receive higher comp for prescribing more expensive drugs.

[Unknown Member]

Here is the exact quote

[link]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG56B2et4M8[/link]

Apology accepted

[ruszja]

Quote from Chirorad84

Here is the exact quote

[link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG56B2et4M8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG56B2et4M8[/link]

 
Yeah, that’s a false and slanderous assertion he made multiple times.

[Unknown Member]

Tape dont lie

[ruszja]

Quote from Chirorad84

Tape dont lie

 
Yup, tape documents that he did make those outrageous claims.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Whataboutism is alive and well and flourishing.

[clickpenguin_460]

All you need to know is that modern Leftism is a religion and Obama is one of the patron saints.  To those who follow Leftism, he can do no wrong such as revered religious figures in traditional religions. 
 
You can’t argue with people about religion.  No amount of facts will change their faith.

[Unknown Member]

Yes and you follow an individual that deals in lie after lie conspiracy and a lot of people are saying

Deny science

Hate education

Just listen to conspiracy lies and here say

Sooooo funny

[Unknown Member]

I just reposted the honorable dalais link

Its all on tape

Sorry if the truth hurts

[clickpenguin_460]

Quote from Chirorad84

Yes and you follow an individual that deals in lie after lie conspiracy and a lot of people are saying

Deny science

Hate education

Just listen to conspiracy lies and here say

Sooooo funny

 
If that’s to me, I don’t “follow” anyone.  I have a set of ideals and have to pick between two idiots every 4 years.  As I’ve said 100x before, I’m not a fan of Trump but liberal ideals are worse to me.  You keep labeling me because you’re so far left that even moderation seems right-wing to you.

[Unknown Member]

Uhhhhhhhh No

You are a total trumper parroting delusion and propaganda

I can go pull out 100 of your prior posts if you want

Not real hard

[clickpenguin_460]

I think I know what I am more than you do. Thanks.

[Unknown Member]

Go back and read your posts

Perhaps you dont know yourself

[tdetlie_105]

Quote from Chirorad84

Here is the exact quote

[link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG56B2et4M8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG56B2et4M8[/link]

Apology accepted

 
Why is it so hard for you to accept that politicians from both sides say dumb inaccurate sh*t? It’s just politics.  I get you despise Trump but he’s out and he’s swapped between political parties multiple times throughout his life.  
 
On a side note, 8 years of being president aged Obama like 20 years

[Dr_Cocciolillo]

Ha. On 7k mri charge , group would be very lucky to get more than 100 pro fee

[tdetlie_105]

Quote from fw

Quote from Chirorad84

Show me where he said that

He DID say that.

At his ‘healthcare townhall’ in NH in August 2009.

Trump has no monopoly on demagoguery and broad generalizations.

 
Trudat!

[tdetlie_105]

Quote from Chirorad84

Show me where he said that

 
Here is the gist of it from the left leaning “The Atlantic”.  Like I stated before, politicians from both sides make asinine statements.
 
[link=https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/]POLITICS[/link]
At What Cost, Cutting Off A Leg?[/h1] [link=https://www.theatlantic.com/author/marc-ambinder/]MARC AMBINDER[/link]
AUGUST 12, 2009

An amusing press release from the governing body for American surgeons:
[blockquote]The American College of Surgeons is deeply disturbed over the [b]uninformed public comments President Obama continues to make [/b]about the high-quality care provided by surgeons in the United States. When the[b] President makes statements that are incorrect or not based in fact, [/b]we think he does a disservice to the American people at a time when they want clear, understandable facts about health care reform.  We want to set the record straight.

 —  Yesterday during a town hall meeting, President Obama got his facts
     completely wrong. He stated that a surgeon gets paid $50,000 for a leg
     amputation when, in fact, Medicare pays a surgeon between $740 and
     $1,140 for a leg amputation.  This payment also includes the
     evaluation of the patient on the day of the operation plus patient
     follow-up care that is provided for 90 days after the operation. 
     Private insurers pay some variation of the Medicare reimbursement for
     this service.

 —  Three weeks ago, the President suggested that a surgeon’s decision to
     remove a child’s tonsils is based on the desire to make a lot of
     money. That remark was ill-informed and dangerous, and we were
     dismayed by this characterization of the work surgeons do.  Surgeons
     make decisions about recommending operations based on what’s right for
     the patient.

We agree with the President that the best thing for patients with diabetes is to manage the disease proactively to avoid the bad consequences that can occur, including blindness, stroke, and amputation.  But as is the case for a person who has been treated for cancer and still needs to have a tumor removed, or a person who is in a terrible car crash and needs access to a trauma surgeon, there are times when even a perfectly managed diabetic patient needs a surgeon.  [b]The President’s remarks are truly alarming and run the risk of damaging the all-important trust between surgeons and their patients.[/b]

[b]We assume that the President made these mistakes unintentionally, but we would urge him to have his facts correct before making another inflammatory and incorrect statement about surgeons and surgical care.[/b][/blockquote]

 

[kayla.meyer_144]

Quote from jd4540

 
[blockquote]
—  Yesterday during a town hall meeting, President Obama got his facts
    completely wrong. He stated that a surgeon gets paid $50,000 for a leg
    amputation when, in fact, Medicare pays a surgeon between $740 and
    $1,140 for a leg amputation.  This payment also includes the
    evaluation of the patient on the day of the operation plus patient
    follow-up care that is provided for 90 days after the operation. 
    Private insurers pay some variation of the Medicare reimbursement for
    this service. 
[/blockquote]

A real question for you jd, regarding Obama’s error over the charges, how many laypeople know how medical billing works do you suppose? If they get a bill, do they know how it breaks down who gets what & why the charge? 
 
As I have noted before, my wife had an MRI of the shoulder, no gad & our insurance got billed for about $7,000 most of which was paid by insurance.  
 
Your average patient gets this bill, do you think they know the hospital got the thousands of $ paid while the reading rad group got less than $1,000? And that it was not part of the $7,000 bill?
 
Hell, how many physicians understand medical billing?
 
I do not know context of the tonsil statement. 

[clickpenguin_460]

I think patients would be surprised to know how little of their bills actually go to the physician. The admin types want it that way.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Frankly, the admin types dont really care.

Its irrelevant.

[tdetlie_105]

Quote from Frumious

Quote from jd4540

 
[blockquote]
—  Yesterday during a town hall meeting, President Obama got his facts
   completely wrong. He stated that a surgeon gets paid $50,000 for a leg
   amputation when, in fact, Medicare pays a surgeon between $740 and
   $1,140 for a leg amputation.  This payment also includes the
   evaluation of the patient on the day of the operation plus patient
   follow-up care that is provided for 90 days after the operation. 
   Private insurers pay some variation of the Medicare reimbursement for
   this service. 
[/blockquote]

A real question for you jd, regarding Obama’s error over the charges, how many laypeople know how medical billing works do you suppose? If they get a bill, do they know how it breaks down who gets what & why the charge? 

As I have noted before, my wife had an MRI of the shoulder, no gad & our insurance got billed for about $7,000 most of which was paid by insurance.  

Your average patient gets this bill, do you think they know the hospital got the thousands of $ paid while the reading rad group got less than $1,000? And that it was not part of the $7,000 bill?

Hell, how many physicians understand medical billing?

I do not know context of the tonsil statement. 

 
Medical billing is a total cluster/scam so I would venture to guess very few laypeople(and physicians) understand it.  With that said, I would imagine that someone like Obama, who is clearly highly intelligent and politically savvy, would have done his homework before making statements like that.  Ditto for Trump but he is clearly not as intelligent and savy as Obama. 

[Unknown Member]

Quote from Chirorad84

Trump press conference

Just said Doctors get paid more if they prescribe more expensive drugs

Seriously how any physician
Supports this fool and group of fools is pathetic

I think he is referring to part D drugs. Yes, docs do get a legal kickback for fronting the money to buy the drugs. It can boost salary by 100-400k per year in some cases. Onc, Retina, Rheum, Urology, etc
 
Under current law CMS is required “to pay a percentage of the drug’s cost to the physicians who administer them, generally based on a flat 4.3% add-on of the average sales price,” Verma explained. “This means taxpayers and beneficiaries pay physicians based on the cost of the drug that they choose. This incentive has led to some unintended consequences, including, in some instances, providers using a more expensive drug over an equally safe and effective alternative.”

[Unknown Member]

Are you talking about Medicare part D

Or are you a Canadian?

[btomba_77]

[h1][b]Exchange of the Day[/b][/h1]  
Former Vice President Mike Pence discussed President Joe Biden committing so many falsehoods with former Trump adviser Larry Kudlow on [link=https://www.mediaite.com/tv/mike-pence-claims-never-in-my-lifetime-has-he-seen-a-president-lie-as-much-as-joe-biden/]Fox Business[/link]:
 
 
KUDLOW: Have you ever seen a president who refuses to accept blame, and I want to add to that, commits so many falsehoods? Im being very polite here, calling it falsehoods falsehoods, you know, on any given day. Hes out there saying stuff that just aint true. Have you ever seen anything like that?
 
PENCE: Never in my lifetime. I said today that there has never been a time in my life where a president was more disconnected from the American people than we see today.
 

[kayla.meyer_144]

Obviously it is Democrats and Biden at fault here that so many will believe them, Pence and Kudlow are so right!