[g.giancaspro_108]

I would let them decide and not try to sway them
(unless they wanted to do primary care, then I would try to dissuade them based on medicine’s history of punishing primary care).
 
What about anesthesia’s lifestyle do you feel makes it worse than rads?
I have some anesthesia friends and they regularly ridicule radiologist work (hours, intensity, autonomy) in comparison to theirs, and they are not wrong.  Our anesthesiologists work far fewer hours for similar pay, but they also oversee an army of CRNAs which seems nerve wracking.
 
Is your kid interested in derm, psych or any other potentially cash-paying specialty where they can opt out of insurance?
 
What is your specialty, and what are you telling your kid about it?

[noahtakacs_851]

I’m just a neurologist, so both of these field are outside my area of expertise obviously. And its 100% up to him what he does, he just often asks for my opinion on major life choices like this. But no, he hasn’t expressed any interest in derm or psych. 
 
And based on some time talking to anesthesiologists/browsing gasworks, it seems like anesthesia on average has overnight call 1x per week, with 24 hour call not being uncommon, which seems pretty brutal to me. Compared to rads, where you usually have nighthawk, thus its much rarer to have to work nights. Add to that the unpleasant early start times in anesthesia (often need to be at the hospital by 6am)
+ average vacation for them seems to be 6-8 weeks, vs rads seems to be 10-12.

[g.giancaspro_108]

Ah, well your anesthesiologists seem to be gluttons for punishment!
 
Anesthesia faces similar automation threats as radiology.  You may recall that automated anesthesia software programs have been FDA approved and automated anesthesia systems have been shown to outperform manual systems (an anesthesiologist).  Will one specialty be devastated by AI before the other?  Who knows, but I feel when the first falls, many others will be very soon to follow.
Here is an interesting article about that.
 
[link=https://pubs.asahq.org/anesthesiology/article/132/2/219/108799/Robots-Will-Perform-Anesthesia-in-the-Near-Future]https://pubs.asahq.org/an…sia-in-the-Near-Future[/link]
 
I still haven’t answered your question, which would I recommend, but maybe there will be those here that are more articulate and capable that will offer sound data and convincing opinions.
 
 

Quote from Glorfindel78

I’m just a neurologist, so both of these field are outside my area of expertise obviously. And its 100% up to him what he does, he just often asks for my opinion on major life choices like this. But no, he hasn’t expressed any interest in derm or psych. 

And based on some time talking to anesthesiologists/browsing gasworks, it seems like anesthesia on average has overnight call 1x per week, with 24 hour call not being uncommon, which seems pretty brutal to me. Compared to rads, where you usually have nighthawk, thus its much rarer to have to work nights. 
+ average vacation for them seems to be 6-8 weeks, vs rads seems to be 10-12.

[sarah.r.huntington]

I would just let the kid decide.
 
Regarding radiology and AI, I am doubtful there will be a disruption in the labor force in the coming decades. There has yet to be a single development that has significantly increased the efficiency of a radiologist despite such claims for decades now. The current round of claims have already fallen flat in the areas where they first became popular (self driving cars replacing truckers, IBM’s Watson impact in oncology).
 
There is also a lot of work to go around. If we had significantly increased radiologist & scanner speed, I have no doubt we’d be doing even more imaging.
 

[Unknown Member]

I would recommend the OP keep out of it. 
Is your kid in medicine because of you? That would be mistake number 1. Dont double down.  

[afazio.uk_887]

Currently, Rads is fantastic imo.

But AI could be a disruptor.

Id just tell my kid which fields to avoid like the plague, like ER.

[Unknown Member]

Neither seem optimal, in terms of outlook.

Ive given my cold assessment of medicine to my high school age son and am glad he is interested in becoming a physician.

[melissa.mason_511]

Just my $0.02, but with respect to nights/weekends/everything all the time: I think that era is coming to an end. There aren’t enough rads. My group is already pulling back significantly because we can’t afford it. Hospitals understand, providing some stipend, but they are struggling too.
 
Good time to be a rad.

[satyanar]

Hopefully they will have the opportunity to get a good idea what the work of their chosen specialty is like and pick the one that they know they can do for many years. The other stuff is too unpredictable to make ones decision based upon. Radiology is much more interesting IMO. I lucked out that it ended up being quite lucrative. Would have been happy making a lot less. 

[Unknown Member]

What I cant get over is the helicopter parent interfering with their grownup kids life, actually writing to this forum so they can tell them what specialty to go into as a third year Med student. The kid doesnt stand a chance if this is what they are used to.

[Unknown Member]

Wouldnt assume that. Just because the OP wants to give advice does not mean their child is in dire need of it. I will entertain all sorts of advice that my parents have to give about a variety of subjects. Doesnt mean I actually need it. Though half of it is decent advice.

[22002469]

Yeah gotta agree.
 
If a doc has a kid in medical school trying to decide the rest of their life, it would be odd not to want to provide the best unbiased opinion possible. Certainly many 24 year olds are mostly clueless what they are getting into, so having some educated help from someone that cares about you is good in my book. Of course it should still be the kid’s call in the end.
 
For me, rads >gas. AI is just one issue of many. Mid-level encroachment, work from home, corporate medicine, pay, vacation, AI, intellectual stimulation, etc. Very hard to predict many of these things over the next 30-40 years. 
 
Since the OP brought up AI, I will repeat what I’ve said before, that radiology may not be as susceptible as some think. Sure, it’s technology driven and (often) not as patient facing. But it’s also a centrally important role for so many specialties and patient outcomes. I’m not sure who is going to ultimately trust a computer to be the “doctor’s doctor”. Personally I think many other specialities are at bigger risk of AI taking over in the next decade or two. 
 
 

[afazio.uk_887]

 
Dude if either of my kids end up in medicine they better ask me my opinion and consider my opinions strongly. 
 
I wish I had a parent who could have given me the inside perspective – I just got lucky I switched and decided to apply Rads at the last second.  I was seriously considering surgery and OBGYN (gasp).  I am very glad I ended up in Rads and I would have been terrible to have ended up in either of those. 
 
Let’s be real here…. you are asked to make a major life determining decision with very incomplete knowledge and experience at the end of medical school.  
 
Look at ER – so many smart med students who were my friends went into that field, which is circling the drain.  Fortunately, most saved and investment for a decade or two and will be fine.  
 
I feel it is an advantage to have at least one parent a doctor.  Might as well take advantage of it. 

[Unknown Member]

The OPs kid asked for advice. Hes coming to the fountainhead for source material to form that opinion. Thats not helicopter parenting. Its exemplary parenting.

[danielle.nagel7_998]

I agree that this is exemplary parenting.  I graduated medical school in 2002 and my dad was primary care.  I wanted to be an ER physician and my dad wisely steered me to radiology.  It was the best decision I every made.  I am glad I had a helicoptor parent.  Kids that are in there mid 20’s still can benefit from guidance.
 
As to the original post, I would still choose rads over gas.

[Unknown Member]

The kid did ask, oh well. Didnt catch that

Whats all this about Soviet jewelry?

SNL. Gilda Radnor.

[Unknown Member]

I would avoid both fields in your kid’s shoes. Too little known about AI and gas is depressing.
 
If not derm, how about rad onc? Or get an MBA or JD.

[IDWick]

Psychiatry is very lucrative.

[Unknown Member]

Quote from qwerty89

Psychiatry is very lucrative.

 
Generally, no. Make just a little more than MRI techs in my area.
 
You can sell out and do forensics or try to write a book and become a mental helth guru, but for the vast majority the life style is firmly middle class. And depressing.

[afazio.uk_887]

 
A friend of mine’s father is a Psych, one of his patients tried to stab him.  He was in his 70s and survived, so decided to retire.  Mental illness is just getting worse in the US. 

[xavierpanchana_510]

Wife is anesthesia. If you like both equally well, rads is better. 

[smfst7_929]

AI is going to come for our jobs one way or another. Will it function independently of us? Unlikely in the near future. Will it increase our productivity. Yes and likely in the next ten years. I will have made all the money I need by then so not worried but someone entering rad residency now or just entering med school? Yikes. Not sure I could in good conscience recommend a speciality that could be decimated in 15 years time

[william.wang_997]

AI will affect everything. It will affect both Rads and Gas. Rads lets you work from home. No more 2 hour commutes a day. Case settled.

[g.giancaspro_108]

BTW I have been told that computers are just about to put radiologists out of a job for the last 20 years.  Breast CAD doesn’t seem to be much better now than 20 years ago, and the EKG machine cannot even produce a reliable read. 
 
Yes, AI replacement could be two weeks away, but you also might be reading that for the next 20 years.

[maxifranca]

These AI predictions, none of which ever seen to pan out, are getting very very tiresome.

[mthx9155]

Quote from Glorfindel78

Seems to me that AI will not replace radiologists in our lifetime, but has a high probability (maybe 75%) in the next 15 years of increasing rads efficiency so much so that supply outstrips demand, and there is an oversupply of radiologists.

 
I hear this type of thinking a lot, but still do not understand what it means. There is a physical limit to how fast a radiologist can review exams without simply just not reviewing them at all, and we are already at that limit. 
 
Unless you are saying that AI will make it so radiologists do not have to review certain exams at all, I don’t know how AI would increase the radiologist’s efficiency without cutting corners by skipping human review of some exams or images. 
 
I do not know what an anesthesiologist’s life entails, since I never had any interest in the field and never looked into it (although I do work with them regularly as an IR). But I do not think I’d like the regular early mornings and frequency of getting called in overnight that seems to be common in anesthesiology. IR has occasional overnights, but I don’t think as frequent as anesthesiology does. Radiology is good to me, and I don’t think I’d be happier in any other specialty. 

[Unknown Member]

Rads is better than Gas.  but:
I told my daughter who was in medical school and graduated 4 years ago that my advice to her – having initially worked 10 years in ER medicine, then going into Radiology for another 30 years, and having seen every medical specialty except Aerospace Medicine – that I would highly suggest 2 things:

1. [b]BE YOUR OWN BOSS! [/b]  Go into a field where you work for yourself, not for Da MAN or anybody else, let alone some MBA with a degree from Devry Tech or Univeristy of Phoenix on-line schools.

2. [b]Get AS FAR AWAY FROM ANY HOSPITAL MEDICINE AS YOU CAN. [/b]  ONCE YOU WORK IN A HOSPITAL – YOUR LIFE WILL NEVER BE YOUR OWN!   HOSPITAL BASED SPECIALTIES, LIKE: RADIOLOGY, ANESTHESIOLOGY, EMERGENCY MEDICINE, PATHOLOGY WILL HOLD YOU BY YOUR COHONES, AND IT WILL BE VERY HARD TO LEAVE OR BREAK AWAY FROM THOSE GROUPS, BECAUSE THOSE GROUPS WILL HAVE AND HOLD YOUR MALPRACTICE INSURANCE – MAKING IT VERY HARD TO GET AWAY OR TO PAY OUT OF POCKET ADDITIONAL TAIL INSRUANCE TO TRANSFER TO ANOTHER GROUP,  THEY WILL HAVE RESTRICTED COVENANTS AND OTHER LEGAL TACTICS TO KEEP YOU THERE,  EVEN IF YOU QUIT.
(sorry for shouting!)
 
She went into Dermatology, and in 4 yrs of residency she has never had a night call or worked a weekend.

[ranweiss]

Anesthesia is a waste of time. CRNA’s have taken hold of that entirely, unless your kid is interested in pain medicine. 
 
Radiology is far superior, obviously, as we are all experiencing the fruits of the current market. This won’t last forever….but probably another decade. 
 
No comparison between anesthesia and radiology salary  / vacation. we are so far ahead it’s a joke. 

[radiologistkahraman_799]

Quote from Wilhelm Roentgen-the original

Rads is better than Gas.  but:
I told my daughter who was in medical school and graduated 4 years ago that my advice to her – having initially worked 10 years in ER medicine, then going into Radiology for another 30 years, and having seen every medical specialty except Aerospace Medicine – that I would highly suggest 2 things:

1. [b]BE YOUR OWN BOSS! [/b]  Go into a field where you work for yourself, not for Da MAN or anybody else, let alone some MBA with a degree from Devry Tech or Univeristy of Phoenix on-line schools.

2. [b]Get AS FAR AWAY FROM ANY HOSPITAL MEDICINE AS YOU CAN. [/b]  ONCE YOU WORK IN A HOSPITAL – YOUR LIFE WILL NEVER BE YOUR OWN!   HOSPITAL BASED SPECIALTIES, LIKE: RADIOLOGY, ANESTHESIOLOGY, EMERGENCY MEDICINE, PATHOLOGY WILL HOLD YOU BY YOUR COHONES, AND IT WILL BE VERY HARD TO LEAVE OR BREAK AWAY FROM THOSE GROUPS, BECAUSE THOSE GROUPS WILL HAVE AND HOLD YOUR MALPRACTICE INSURANCE – MAKING IT VERY HARD TO GET AWAY OR TO PAY OUT OF POCKET ADDITIONAL TAIL INSRUANCE TO TRANSFER TO ANOTHER GROUP,  THEY WILL HAVE RESTRICTED COVENANTS AND OTHER LEGAL TACTICS TO KEEP YOU THERE,  EVEN IF YOU QUIT.
(sorry for shouting!)

She went into Dermatology, and in 4 yrs of residency she has never had a night call or worked a weekend.

 
Words of wisdom right here.  Get as far from the hospital setting as possible and don’t work for the man.  

[mildenp]

My bestie from med school is an anesthesiologist and he works like a dog. It is not a lifestyle specialty. It has been taken over by private equity. The doctors do all of the painful call work (lots of it), he gets treated like garbage by surgeons, CRNAs salaries kept climbing while doctors stayed the same.

[Radscatter]

Agree wholeheartedly with [b][i]W[i][b]ilhelm Roentgen-the original. [/b][/i][/i][/b]
 
Stay away from the hospital and be your own boss. That was the best decision I ever made both from a financial and job satisfaction perspective. This is easier to do in some other specialities, but it is doable in radiology (especially IR). 

[Unknown Member]

Re Dermatology. 
Significant PE penetration.
I visited my dermatology office after recently sold to PE, and looked like a sweat shop.  
Office practice isnt a panacea unless you control it.
So I think the concept of being your own boss is tight on; but how common is that these days?  And the complexities of running a small private practice are more complicated than ever. 

I think if one is truly interested in the humanistic side of medicine; go for it. But if you are looking for a business opportunity, keep away. 

[Unknown Member]

Re Dermatology.  
Significant PE penetration.  
I visited my dermatology office after recently sold to PE, and looked like a sweat shop.   
Office practice isnt a panacea unless you control it.  
So I think the concept of being your own boss is right on; but how common is that these days?  And the complexities of running a small private practice are more complicated than ever.  

I think if one is truly interested in the humanistic side of medicine; go for it. But if you are looking for a business opportunity, keep away.  

[Unknown Member]

I would not base any decision about radiology on AI

You want to base it payors length of training sub specialization job market etc. – OK

But dont base it on AI

[radiologistkahraman_799]

Quote from Chirorad84

I would not base any decision about radiology on AI

You want to base it payors length of training sub specialization job market etc. – OK

But dont base it on AI

Gotta agree.  The day we see a tech giant ready to pony up Med Mal and full culpability for studies will be when I start to look for side work.

[Unknown Member]

Id have no problem recommending rads over gas if my son asked. Its better. More interesting, broader and deeper, and more central to medicine in n general.

[btomba_77]

Rads: Full remote/WFH possible.  Likely more and more common in the future.   Can change jobs anywhere in the country without moving.

[aldoctc]

Faced same choice years ago as a med student. Reasons I chose rads over gas:

Gas has to work with a$$hole surgeons.
Gas has highest probability of becoming drug addicted (keys to candy store).
Gas has more patient interaction than rads.
Rads more interesting to me than gas.

Have never regretted decision. Begged my (now ex) wife to do derm. She chose IM. Is miserable.

Choosing your specialty based on experiences of 3rd year med school is like deciding to be a rock star after going to your first concert.

[Unknown Member]

If every Med student went into radiology, anesthesia or derm, we would have no real doctors. 

I get we want to give advice to our kids mentees etc, but they are not a mini-me. Their successes and failures will ultimately be theirs, and their skills, needs and wants are their own. We want to guide and protect them, but they still have to live their lives. 

Someone has to be the surgeon. For that matter an actor, artist, musician, soldier, priest, rabbi, imam, politician etc. Just because something is hard or impractical doesnt mean it should be avoided. Cushy landings are cushy, but not for everyone, thank goodness. 
 
A good friend was accepted to a 6 year prestigious MD program, but he wanted to be an engineer. Even accepted into MIT. His father pushed/forced him into the six year program. Eventually did anesthesia. Hated it. Did well financially, retired early, but to escape. Resents his choice to this day, and resents his father. 
 
At some point as a parent or mentor you need to watch the show, not direct it. It complicated, and hard to do. 
 
I come from a family of laissez faire parenting; basically work hard, deal with it and figure it out yourself. Very Depression era stuff. Would have appreciated more guidance, and financial support, but ultimately no regrets. 
 
One of the major problems with medicine, is it is very difficult to get off the conveyor belt and change course; especially with the crazy debt burden. I sympathize with those who feel trapped in the profession. There must be a lot more than we know, given the low drop out rate. We look at such people like they are weak, but are they? Same with specialty choice, its a shame physicians cant more easily switch. No doubt how can you be expected to intelligently choose in your third year?
 
Anyway, enough stream of consciousness. Im at the end of my career, and really enjoyed it. But would I want 30 years of radiology as it is now; I dont know.  Is it because Im tired, or is it because its becoming a grind? I dont know. 
 
 

[Unknown Member]

Nice Rosanadana reference!

[tdetlie_105]

I am a bit surprised that the anesthesia market has picked up.  Always assumed it was indefinitely shot due to CRNAs but apparently anesthesiologists are in solid demand.  

[anabarcelo_18]

OP,
 
perspective from a current trainee.
 
my advice – patient facing or procedural specialty.
 
i think its easier for some of the mid career / older docs to recommend rads bc they are debt free with a nice nest egg.
 
imaging the mental torment of being 250k+ in debt, no savings, grinding through residency and wondering if you’ll even have a job when you are done.
 
look at google bard’s latest update – it interprets images. people will argue rads do so much more than that, but as a pgy-5, nah not really that’s the bulk of what we do. and its pattern recognition, which computers are great at
 
i wouldn’t be surprised if radiology is dead in <10 years. the tech will definitely be there, its the regulatory obstacles / liability that may keep us alive.
 
but there is absolutely no way we will be doing what we currently do in the next decade or two.
 
again, patient facing or procedural…

[22002469]

Quote from coldfeetmike

imaging the mental torment of being 250k+ in debt, no savings, grinding through residency and wondering if you’ll even have a job when you are done.

 
You are a PGY-5 and tormented that you might not have a job when you’re done?
 
I won’t pretend to know the future 10, 20, or 30 years down the line. For rads or a lot of other specialties.
 
But you’ll be just fine in the short term rad job market as a recent grad, so feel free to take a deep breath and relax on that front.

[anabarcelo_18]

was speaking to the potential position OP’s son/daughter would be in but yes job market very hot right now. feels good, but also things are changing at exponential rate on the AI front, so still a lil nervous. hope to get at least 10 yrs as attending…. we’ll see

[afazio.uk_887]

 
AI is getting heavily regulated by the government.  There is no way this thing gets to run wild out in the open.  There are far serious risks in that sort of scenario.  
 
There is a big risk to a medical student avoiding Rads as a career due to hypothetical AI risk which is nebulous at best.  The risk is ending up in some other field which is far worse for your entire career. 
 
It is also fair that I am sitting mid-career with multi-millions so maybe my view of things is not the same as someone just coming out of training. 
 
 

[andy.lippman_422]

Dude some practices still don’t have voice recognition. Or EPIC chat/TigerText/etc.. Or a PACS that is actually efficient. And trust me, way better to be a radiologist and be replaced by AI in 20 years (let’s say even 10 if you’re really doom and gloom and have an outlandishly inflated sense of the capabilities of AI in this field) than to be a non-radiologist for even 1 year. If that ever does happen, you can always go do another residency. But why make that mistake now?

[toumeray]

In truth I don’t think anyone can predict the rate at which AI is developed enough to perform general image interpretation and reporting.  We have been hearing “its coming” for years and years, always with the potential to be world changing in the next year.  It’s possible this rhetoric but lack of an actual physical product that can make that report draft for you on powerscribe will continue for the next 20, 30, 40 years even.
 
On the other hand, AI is also known to exponentially increase in it’s performance and learning.  In some instances there are neural networks that can generate made up data/images and learn off of its own made up images.  So it’s possible it will literally be a week from now.  There’s just too much uncertainty and I don’t think anyone on here can accurately estimate when it will be functional.
 
I do agree with the medmal aspect not being a significant part of the issue.  If an AI platform can generate a predictated report into powerscribe that is 99.9% accurate, there will be many radiologists who will happily sign off that report after a 10second scroll through of a CT CAP.  Rinse and repeat at 100 CAP’s an hour.  Thats the entire radiology workforce in one go.  I feel bad for that blind – signing radiologist though, just the sheer fact that their name is on every CT CAP in a multistate region means they will be in court 90% of the time.

[andy.lippman_422]

Both times I’ve been sued were for extremely subtle findings that ended up randomly having a bad outcome. AI would have probably helped in this case, since it tends to overcall rather than undercall. It’s easier to evaluate a subtle finding and say it’s likely nothing than it is to see it in the first place. For cases like that, subtle PEs, head bleeds, etc. AI will be far more helpful than harmful in the short term. In the long term, not a single person has any idea what medicine can look like. But the non-surgical clinicians are going to be in trouble too.