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  • I guess I’m considered a voter fraud

    Posted by Unknown Member on October 22, 2016 at 9:14 am

    Just got some info today telling me I’m still registered to vote in my former state of residence…… a state I have not lived in or voted in since 2011

    Now I am registered in my current state and I have voted here since 2012

    So basically trump is saying I’m committing voter fraud cause I’m technically registered to vote in 2 states…. even though I’ve only voted in my current state of legal residence one time only

    The biggest kicker.,,,,. The mailing I got today asked me to vote for…………….. Donald Trump

    btomba_77 replied 10 months, 4 weeks ago 17 Members · 407 Replies
  • 407 Replies
  • ruszja

    Member
    October 22, 2016 at 9:41 am

    Well, you could never vote twice, right. Because your your old and new state require you to prove residency and identity by showing a driver’s license (or state ID) when you show up at the polling station.

    With the solid ID check requirements in place today, this type of multiple registration is no problem at all. I mean it could be a problem if you were allowed to just show up, state your name, obtain a ballot and vote, but that’s not how it works.

    • Unknown Member

      Deleted User
      October 22, 2016 at 10:48 am

      My point is

      Trump said millions of people are registered to vote in multiple states

      – well that doesn’t mean that those people are illegally voting and committing wide scale voter fraud

      • 100574

        Member
        October 22, 2016 at 12:08 pm

        Cali took a bunch of independents and put us in this far right party so they will get quite the shock when a bunch vote for HRC–will correct it after the election

        Quote from kpack123

        My point is

        Trump said millions of people are registered to vote in multiple states

        – well that doesn’t mean that those people are illegally voting and committing wide scale voter fraud

      • ruszja

        Member
        October 22, 2016 at 3:49 pm

        Quote from kpack123

        My point is

        Trump said millions of people are registered to vote in multiple states

        – well that doesn’t mean that those people are illegally voting and committing wide scale voter fraud

        Yeah, that never happens. Ever. We know that for sure, because, because, well it never happens. Given that we have a central nationwide voter registry, something like that would become immediately obvious and the perpetrators would be punished.

        • Unknown Member

          Deleted User
          October 22, 2016 at 6:41 pm

          First off—- voting is managed locally by law cal boards under state wide control

          Are you advocating a new federal beuracracy to establish new rules?

          Second Trump also said 1.8 million dead people are registered to vote

          He said millions of people are registered in more than one state are registered to vote

          Now both of those statements are true…. Unfortunately people move and they die

          But he uses that claim to say their is widespread voter fraud…..suggesting all these millions of people who move are voting multiple times or all these millions of dead peopke have family members fill their ballots out for them

          That’s fng horse sheet

          Does it happen……. Yeah it does…..but to infer it happens in millions of cases is total horse sheet

          I moved…. There is no law to say I need to inform my former state to remove me from the rolls….. I vote of once in my new state

          My dad died a few years back…. I’m sure he is still on the list… But I can assure he won’t be voting either

          What is that you want?

          • ruszja

            Member
            October 22, 2016 at 7:47 pm

            Quote from kpack123

            First off—- voting is managed locally by law cal boards under state wide control

             
            That’s your problem right there.

            Are you advocating a new federal beuracracy to establish new rules?

             
            Not necessary. For example there is already a data clearinghouse run by 20 states that clean up their voter rolls. If someone registers to vote, the system checks whether they are already registered somewhere else and those registrations are looked at to see whether they are duplicates.
             

            Second Trump also said 1.8 million dead people are registered to vote

            He said millions of people are registered in more than one state are registered to vote

            Now both of those statements are true…. Unfortunately people move and they die

            But he uses that claim to say their is widespread voter fraud…..suggesting all these millions of people who move are voting multiple times or all these millions of dead peopke have family members fill their ballots out for them

            That’s fng horse sheet

             
            How do you know that ?
             
            The reality is, we don’t know how often politically motivated family members vote for dead relatives or how often people who know that they have multiple registrations use those to cast multiple ballots. Bush v. Gore was decided by 537 votes, Franken v. Coleman was decided by 225 votes. It doesn’t take much fraud to tilt an election.

            I moved…. There is no law to say I need to inform my former state to remove me from the rolls…..

             
            There should.
             

            My dad died a few years back…. I’m sure he is still on the list… But I can assure he won’t be voting either

             
            The registrars are supposed to use the Social Security Death index to clean their voter rolls. Many don’t.

            • kayla.meyer_144

              Member
              October 23, 2016 at 5:13 am

              Quote from fw

              How do you know that ?

              The reality is, we don’t know how often politically motivated family members vote for dead relatives or how often people who know that they have multiple registrations use those to cast multiple ballots. Bush v. Gore was decided by 537 votes, Franken v. Coleman was decided by 225 votes. It doesn’t take much fraud to tilt an election.

              fw channels Rumsfeld,
               
              “The UNKNOWN UNKNOWNS!”
               
              and still draws firm conclusions in a vacuum of data. Based on his guts? Clairvoyance? Not on the facts, certainly not on any facts known.
               
              There are some Republican investigators who’d sell their eye-teeth to actually find some data supporting their “guts” and after many investigations, so far they’ve only come up with a handful. Mostly errors & mistakes or misunderstandings, but little to no actual fraud.
               
              A solution to no known problem. Voter fraud is a problem that does not exist. The REAL problems in elections however are not addressed. Like old breaking machines & other unreliable methods, disenfranchising voters, etc.
               
              Deliberately? Yeah, “those” voters who usually vote Democratic would then vote. Ask Phyllis Schafly. Besides repairing problems and infrastructure costs money which would justify Democratic arguments.

              • ruszja

                Member
                October 23, 2016 at 7:59 am

                Quote from Frumious

                There are some Republican investigators who’d sell their eye-teeth to actually find some data supporting their “guts” and after many investigations, so far they’ve only come up with a handful. Mostly errors & mistakes or misunderstandings, but little to no actual fraud.

                Given the current lack of data, there is no way of even investigating how big this problem is. Fixing the problem of duplicate registrations and requiring proof of residence and identity at the polls (like most other democratic countries) would eliminate the problem from the get-go.
                Occasionally, a voter will be struck from the rolls in error. There is a mechanism to fix this, it’s called a provisional ballot. You cast your ballot and provide your proof of residency at the board of elections or registrars office after the election.

                A solution to no known problem. Voter fraud is a problem that does not exist. The REAL problems in elections however are not addressed. Like old breaking machines & other unreliable methods, disenfranchising voters, etc.

                Every vote cast by someone ineligible disenfranchises one legitimate voter.

                • kayla.meyer_144

                  Member
                  October 23, 2016 at 9:47 am

                  Quote from fw

                  Given the current lack of data, there is no way of even investigating how big this problem is. Fixing the problem of duplicate registrations and requiring proof of residence and identity at the polls (like most other democratic countries) would eliminate the problem from the get-go.

                  As I said, “UNKNOWN UNKNOWNS.” You have no data to even suggest this is a problem but you have already concluded there is one. And so far all the data is showing that there is no problem.
                   
                  No, a single person caught in voter fraud is not a national problem that has to be solved for 100% no violations. A perfect score is a right wing argument that even the right wingers know is unachievable. Even your precious guns are manufactured with tolerances +/-, not perfect measurements.
                   
                  And as uncle points out, the cure is worse than the disease.
                   
                  Another example of Republican Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy.
                   
                   

          • tdetlie_105

            Member
            October 22, 2016 at 7:52 pm

            Quote from kpack123

            What is that you want?

             
            Maybe they want Trump to win/HRC to lose?!

    • alyaa.rifaie_129

      Member
      October 22, 2016 at 1:45 pm

      [i]With the solid ID check requirements in place today, this type of multiple registration is no problem at all. I mean it could be a problem if you were allowed to just show up, state your name, obtain a ballot and vote, but that’s not how it works.[/i]
       
      That is not completely true and this is the problem. In many states that is almost what it takes. Show up and sign. Photo ID laws have been struck down. Go to this site and you can see the requirements.
      [link=http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/voter-id.aspx]http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/voter-id.aspx [/link]
       
      Look at how many states do not ask for a picture ID. If you can recite a name, address etc. you vote. Some states ID does not need a photo.  In some states if you have no ID all you do is a sign an affidavit. The question: Do we really know if fraud is occurring?

      • kayla.meyer_144

        Member
        October 22, 2016 at 3:20 pm

        For the record, while I am not double registered in or out of state, I don’t have to show ID when I vote. I say who I am & where I live or what District I’m in, they find my name, I sign and vote.
         
        Done.
         
        There is no voter fraud. It is so close to zero as to actually be zero. It is only a political gimmick of long standing from the South to purposely disenfranchise voters. It is a solution for and with no problem.
         
         

  • Unknown Member

    Deleted User
    October 23, 2016 at 6:09 am

    Funny to that those who want state and local control and hate big government are now suggesting that big government take control

    • ruszja

      Member
      October 23, 2016 at 8:04 am

      Quote from kpack123

      Funny to that those who want state and local control and hate big government are now suggesting that big government take control

      We already have federal standards for elections.
      Running this doesn’t require the feds to operate it. This is no different collecting traffic fines across state lines. Funny, if money can be made, states can exchange data, if elections integrity is involved it is suddenly a problem.

      • Unknown Member

        Deleted User
        October 23, 2016 at 8:18 am

        You will get more push back from republicans on this

        Let’s face it they aren’t really concerned about dead people voting or people that move voting twice

        They want to find a way to suppress the black vote

        It’s that simple

        You can rant otherwise but that’s all it is

        • ruszja

          Member
          October 23, 2016 at 10:03 am

          Quote from kpack123

          You will get more push back from republicans on this

          Let’s face it they aren’t really concerned about dead people voting or people that move voting twice

          They want to find a way to suppress the black vote

          It’s that simple

          You can rant otherwise but that’s all it is

          Are you saying that black people committ voter fraud. You racist.

          • Unknown Member

            Deleted User
            October 24, 2016 at 9:45 am

            You made that claim that we need more federal control over voting registration

            I’m saying republicans want to suppress the black vote

            And they do this or attempt to do this locally and on a state wide level….. therefore any attempt to give the federal government more authority would likely not be supported by republicans

            • eyoab2011_711

              Member
              October 24, 2016 at 10:24 am

              Meanwhile no one is even concerned about the avenue that is much easier for fraud…the absentee ballot.  If you want voter ID laws that are strict, then EVERY vote should be cast using an approved picture ID but of course no one advocates that or banning absentee voting

            • ruszja

              Member
              October 24, 2016 at 11:45 am

              Quote from kpack123

              You made that claim that we need more federal control over voting registration

              I did not make such a claim.

              States are capable of ensuring elections integrity without the feds ‘help’.

      • Unknown Member

        Deleted User
        October 23, 2016 at 8:21 am

        The current spate of ID laws disenfranchise orders of magnitude more voters than any in person voter fraud. That is and has been easily proven. A cure far worse than the disease, thus antithetical to rational action. Not to mention, as has been well described by one of the more conservative US Appellate judges, and the most cited jurist of the 20th century, the laws are in fact and deed designed to produce partisan disenfranchisement.

  • kayla.meyer_144

    Member
    October 24, 2016 at 12:10 pm

    Or making sure certain Democratic voters have a hard time voting…

    • eyoab2011_711

      Member
      October 24, 2016 at 1:38 pm

      Move along…nothing to see here
       
      [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/growing-conflict-over-voting-rights-in-georgia-where-the-presidential-race-is-tightening/2016/10/24/2e9d2caa-84e6-11e6-a3ef-f35afb41797f_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_gavoting-219pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory]https://www.washingtonpos…9pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory[/link]

    • ruszja

      Member
      October 24, 2016 at 1:57 pm

      Quote from Frumious

      Or making sure certain Democratic voters have a hard time voting…

      How is it that only democrats have a hard time filling out a 1 page form at the DMV to get a state ID ? Are you saying that democrats are stupid?

      • kayla.meyer_144

        Member
        October 24, 2016 at 2:34 pm

        The question for someone who dislikes government, is why do you need a law making things more complicated for anissue that doesn’t exist, namely voter fraud?

        • Unknown Member

          Deleted User
          October 24, 2016 at 4:13 pm

          Pay attention to the news. Filling out a simple one page form is not all that is required to obtain the necessary ID. And even when people, who do not have discretionary time off from one or more jobs, do show up at DMV with appropriate documentation, they are often turned away, deliberately or mistakenly turned away on a far too regular basis. These episodes are much more common and well documented than any level of voter fraud. Either you are unaware of it, or don’t believe or care about it. In any case, it makes your argument for voter ID laws spurious.

          At first blush, I thought voter ID requirements were simple self evidently supportable. Any rudimentary examination of need and effect for and of the laws reveals them to be manifestly anti democratic, and therefore inherently unpatriotic.

          • 100574

            Member
            October 24, 2016 at 5:08 pm

            California sends out this book with all these propositions:-Prop 59 what will it really matter, legal THC ??????, the prescription prop which could wind up affecting us privately insured ;-what if u don’t have kids …just researching this stuff is time consuming..I guess u could just go in and vote for Pres and the senate race and leave

          • ruszja

            Member
            October 25, 2016 at 6:43 pm

            Quote from uncleduke

             
            Pay attention to the news. Filling out a simple one page form is not all that is required to obtain the necessary ID.

             
            I am paying attention to the form that I have filled out a couple of times for kids and elderly relatives who don’t drive. $8, proof of residency and a birth certificate is all it takes.
             

            And even when people, who do not have discretionary time off from one or more jobs, do show up at DMV with appropriate documentation, they are often turned away, deliberately or mistakenly turned away on a far too regular basis.

             
            Has never happened to me or the folks I have taken to the DMV. You are not applying for a NIH grant or DOT authority, it’s a non-driver ID.
             
            Yes, I know, there are like 3 old ladies in South Carolina who had their birth recorded in the family bible. Even for them there is a process to prove identity. They all manage to get medicare and social security, the process to get a state ID is far less involved.

             

            • tdetlie_105

              Member
              October 25, 2016 at 7:44 pm

              Quote from fw

              Quote from uncleduke

               
              Pay attention to the news. Filling out a simple one page form is not all that is required to obtain the necessary ID.

              I am paying attention to the form that I have filled out a couple of times for kids and elderly relatives who don’t drive. $8, proof of residency and a birth certificate is all it takes.

              And even when people, who do not have discretionary time off from one or more jobs, do show up at DMV with appropriate documentation, they are often turned away, deliberately or mistakenly turned away on a far too regular basis.

              Has never happened to me or the folks I have taken to the DMV. You are not applying for a NIH grant or DOT authority, it’s a non-driver ID.

              Yes, I know, there are like 3 old ladies in South Carolina who had their birth recorded in the family bible. Even for them there is a process to prove identity. They all manage to get medicare and social security, the process to get a state ID is far less involved.

              Requiring a photo ID to vote is a no-brainer, its freakin ridiculous that this is even an issue…

              • jquinones8812_854

                Member
                October 25, 2016 at 8:21 pm

                Voter ID is pretty much standard worldwide.
                 
                This should be an easy thing to solve: Make sure everyone has an ID. Those that can’t afford it or can’t easily obtain one should have govt assistance to do so. I am not big on spending, but this is one area where govt must insure the right of everyone to vote.
                 
                You do this, problem solved. This isn’t really a hard problem; the reality is the fact we can’t solve it shows how both sides are corrupt and the system is broken. 
                 

                • kayla.meyer_144

                  Member
                  October 26, 2016 at 1:56 am

                  Quote from MISTRAD

                  Voter ID is pretty much standard worldwide.

                  This should be an easy thing to solve: Make sure everyone has an ID. Those that can’t afford it or can’t easily obtain one should have govt assistance to do so. I am not big on spending, but this is one area where govt must insure the right of everyone to vote.

                  You do this, problem solved. This isn’t really a hard problem; the reality is the fact we can’t solve it shows how both sides are corrupt and the system is broken. 

                  Except the STATED primary purpose of voter ID is to make thing difficult for certain voters. Voter ID issues only seem to be an issue in red states. Blue states don’t seem to have any voter fraud.
                   
                  This is an invented issue.
                   
                  You are correct, if ID is the only issue then it is government who should issue without deliberate inconvenience. And every ID issued should also be an automatic registration to vote and voting should be easy and convenient and reliable in locations and times.
                   
                  But somehow that is the opposite of what is actually happening in red states. “Did you ever wonder why?”
                   
                  Because that was never the point. Even the courts have stated so.

                  • ruszja

                    Member
                    October 26, 2016 at 2:01 am

                    Quote from Frumious

                     
                    Except the STATED primary purpose of voter ID is to make thing difficult for certain voters. Voter ID issues only seem to be an issue in red states. Blue states don’t seem to have any voter fraud.

                     
                    That’s not the ‘stated primary purpose’. The purpose of voter ID is to ensure that only the person who is registered is the one who is able to cast a vote and that nobody is able to cast additional votes because they know the personal information of someone who is not likely to vote in this election.
                     
                    Blue states just don’t care much about voter fraud. Probably because it helps them to remain blue.

                    • kayla.meyer_144

                      Member
                      October 26, 2016 at 4:59 am

                      An invented argument about an invented problem.
                       
                      When I was a kid, elephant jokes were briefly popular & your arguments remind me of at least one.
                       
                      [align=center]

                      Why do we paint elephants’s toenails red.[/align] [align=center]So they can hide in the apple trees.[/align] [align=center]Ever see an elephant in an apple tree?[/align] [align=center]See, it works![/align]

                       
                      In several years of looking by very desperate Republican investigators, they could only find a small hand full of legitimate fraud cases in years or voting. Most everything is like kpack’s personal example.
                       
                      Again, if ID is your concern, make them automatic to all citizens & make automatic registration to all citizens. When you become a citizen you are registered, when you get a driver’s license you are registered, any government ID you are registered, etc. Anyone without IDs now would have the states make at their expense, registration & ID available to every community in a local trip for the citizens at convenient hours, extended & weekends until everyone is registered & ID’d. In fact, make it mandatory.
                       
                      The reality is that the red states are throwing impediments to getting IDs. That is what the courts have ruled in several cases. Voter ID laws are falling under their own weight of lies.
                       
                      These are unnecessary laws made only to impede voters from voting. They are targeted to specific types of voters designed like Southern Poll taxes & questions back in Jim Crow days, anything to stop “them” from voting. Phyllis Schafly stated it very clearly many times as have other Republicans.
                       
                      [link=http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/26/us/elections/voter-id-laws.html]http://www.nytimes.com/20…ons/voter-id-laws.html[/link]

                      And this month in North Carolina, plaintiffs complained to a judge that early-voting plans in five populous counties, including Charlottes Mecklenburg County, embraced some of the discriminatory practices that federal courts had outlawed this summer. That came after two senior Republican Party officials advised local elections boards in emails to choose polling places and voting hours that inconvenience minorities and other Democratic-leaning constituencies.
                       
                      But the crux of the Republicans argument is less whimsical: Tough election laws, they argue, are needed to keep Democrats from stealing elections. What I find is that leaders of the other party are against efforts to crack down on voter fraud, Gov. Greg Abbott of Texas, a Republican, said in March. Numerous studies and surveys of voting show the opposite: Election fraud is rare, and the in-person fraud that the laws could prevent is virtually absent.

                       
                      [link=http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/24/voter-id-laws-target-rarely-occurring-voter-fraud.html]http://www.foxnews.com/po…rring-voter-fraud.html[/link]

                      Several states adopted new laws last year requiring that people show a photo ID when they come to vote even though the kind of election fraud that the laws are intended to stamp out is rare.

                      Even supporters of the new laws are hard pressed to come up with large numbers of cases in which someone tried to vote under a false identify.

                      “I’ve compared this to the snake oil salesman. You got a cold? I got snake oil. Your foot aches? I got snake oil,” said election law expert Justin Levitt, who wrote “The Truth About Voter Fraud” for The Brennan Center for Justice. “It doesn’t seem to matter what the problem is, (voter) ID is being sold as the solution to a whole bunch of things it can’t possibly solve.”

                       
                       
                      [link=http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-voting-irregularities-snap-story.html]http://www.latimes.com/po…rities-snap-story.html[/link]

                      While voter fraud is rare one study found just 31 credible claims of fraud amid more than a 1 billion ballots cast since the turn of the century   a handful of instances of voter fraud and voting irregularities have been found ahead of the election. At the same time, there have been accusations of voter suppression across the U.S., as civil rights groups have said Trumps instructions to supporters to go check out polls in certain areas are a call to monitor minority votes.

                       
                      [link=http://www.technicianonline.com/news/article_3b248b26-9b25-11e6-b573-17b2010393ff.html]http://www.technicianonli…b573-17b2010393ff.html[/link]

                      Chapel Hill professor of law Gene Nichol talked to students in Park Shops Tuesday about the new voter ID laws that were been passed by the NC General Assembly, but then overturned in July by the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals.

                      I should say that one of the ways that students have been discriminated against across North Carolina is closing poll sites on campuses, weve had some skirmishes about that here and around North Carolina, Nichol said.

                      Nichol believes that the intent of the state legislature in creating the voter ID law was to prevent young voters from voting because of their contribution to the election of Obama in 2012, when people under 30 had the highest voter participation that demographic ever had in North Carolina history.

                      Nichol went on to discuss how the bill also discriminates against black voters, talking about how a North Carolina 3-judge panel came together and struck down North Carolinas new voter districts based off the notion that they were racially motivated in creating these districts.

                       
                      [link=http://www.politico.com/story/2014/10/voter-id-laws-minorities-111721]http://www.politico.com/s…laws-minorities-111721[/link]

                      States that toughened their voter identification laws saw steeper drops in election turnout than those that did not, with disproportionate falloffs among black and younger voters, a nonpartisan congressional study released Wednesday concluded.

                       
                      The election of 2000 proved the real problem with voting, unreliable methods. The effort should be for making more voters come to the polls, not less, But that’s anathema to Republicans. Facts are anathema to Republicans, the arguments don’t even rise to truthiness.
                       
                       

                    • Unknown Member

                      Deleted User
                      October 26, 2016 at 5:46 am

                      I actually had an elephant joke book as a kid

                      Funny thing- half of the book was an elephant joke book and the other half a polish joke book

                      Not exactly a politically correct era

                    • ruszja

                      Member
                      October 26, 2016 at 4:14 pm

                      Every time I read this ‘only 31 cases out of 1 billion ballots’ trope I know that the person who brings it up didn’t actually read the article it is plucked from.
                       
                      There were 11 cases in Wisconsin alone, and all from a republican who was upset about the Walker recall ๐Ÿ˜‰
                       
                      There are very few prosecutions for impersonation fraud, but that is more a reflection of prosecutorial priorities than an indication that there is no fraud. It is difficult to prove and prosecutors have other priorities to spend their resources on. The Fairfax county board of elections forwarded hundreds of cases where voters had voted both in Fairfax and in Montgomery county (MD) to the prosecuting attorney and the information just sat there until the statute of limitations ran out. Adultery is a misdemeanor in 16 states yet there hasn’t been a successful prosecution in decades. Does that mean there is no adultery ?

                    • Unknown Member

                      Deleted User
                      October 26, 2016 at 4:49 pm

                      Who said 31 cases out of 1 Billion

                      Who are you referring too?

                    • ruszja

                      Member
                      October 26, 2016 at 4:55 pm

                      Quote from kpack123

                      Who said 31 cases out of 1 Billion

                      Who are you referring too?

                       
                      Fruminous.

                    • btomba_77

                      Member
                      January 31, 2023 at 11:35 am

                      [h1]Yet Another Resident of The Villages Admitted to Voting Twice[/h1] The fourth resident of The Villages in Florida admitted to voting twice in the 2020 election, [link=https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2023/01/30/4th-resident-of-the-villages-admits-to-voting-twice-in-the-2020-election/]WKMG[/link] reports.

                      John Rider, 62, recently entered into a pre-trial intervention program that will allow him to avoid potential prison time if he successfully completes court-ordered requirements and refrains from violating the law.
                       
                      Rider indicated in court papers that he plans to buy out his requirement of completing 50 hours of community service at a cost of $10 per hour.

                      All four were facing a maximum of five years in prison if a jury convicted them of a third-degree felony.
                      [/QUOTE]

                      so .. from a felony to a $500 fine. Florida.
                       

      • heenadevk1119_462

        Member
        October 25, 2016 at 6:16 pm

        Quote from fw

        Quote from Frumious

        Or making sure certain Democratic voters have a hard time voting…

        How is it that only democrats have a hard time filling out a 1 page form at the DMV to get a state ID ? Are you saying that democrats are stupid?

         
        It’s precisely what they are saying. They need to bus mindless drones around to vote and any impedance to that is a hindrance to winning. Ask Creamer and the usual tactics which have shown the admitted fraud by high level Democrat leaders or aids.
         
        The beginning and end of the story is that these people do not care about the Constitution. It requires that a citizen only be able to cast a vote, but they do everything they can to a) make it possible for non-citizens to vote through stealth, ignorance of the system or otherwise, as well as b) insist that something required by the highest law in the land have LESS stringent standards than anything else in society that also requires security— bank account, drivers license, credit card, etc.
         
        Only an insane person or someone who hates the Constitution would be against sound identification of US Citizenship to be eligible to vote.
         
        Strict [but fair] voting ID standards lessen voter fraud. Period.
         
        If you are against these, you don’t care about fraud, and also you don’t care about nullifying legitimate votes. That says an awful lot about your priorities and your politics. Again, it confirms that they are in rebellion against our Constitution.

  • ruszja

    Member
    October 25, 2016 at 8:38 pm

     

    Quote from MISTRAD

     
    Voter ID is pretty much standard worldwide.

    [attachment=0]
     
    People hike days, dodge bandits animals and raging rivers to execise their right to vote. Yet here, going down to the DPS or courthouse to pick up an ID card every 5 years is too much to ask. I always wonder where all these hermits live that never make it to their county seat. They all go to the doctor, shop at safeway or make it to church on sunday yet a trip to the DMV is world travel. Oh, and those people ‘working 3 jobs’. They all have drivers licenses and don’t need to get a separate voting ID anyway.
     

    This should be an easy thing to solve: Make sure everyone has an ID. Those that can’t afford it or can’t easily obtain one should have govt assistance to do so. I am not big on spending, but this is one area where govt must insure the right of everyone to vote. 

     
    In TX, the ‘Election Identification Certificate’ is FREE and that is apparently too expensive for the partisans.

    • tdetlie_105

      Member
      October 25, 2016 at 8:51 pm

      Quote from fw

      Oh, and those people ‘working 3 jobs’. They all have drivers licenses and don’t need to get a separate voting ID anyway.

       
      You’re such an elitist.  These hard working folks walk 10 miles, bike 30 miles, or take 10 different buses to get to work…
       

      • ruszja

        Member
        October 25, 2016 at 9:24 pm

        Quote from jd4540

         

        Quote from fw

        Oh, and those people ‘working 3 jobs’. They all have drivers licenses and don’t need to get a separate voting ID anyway.

         
        You’re such an elitist.  These hard working folks walk 10 miles, bike 30 miles, or take 10 different buses to get to work… 

         
        I am sure they exist, but there are so few of them that even if a couple of them don’t make it to vote, it wouldn’t affect the outcome of the election.

  • btomba_77

    Member
    October 26, 2016 at 5:43 pm

    Quote from fw

    Quote from kpack123

    Who said 31 cases out of 1 Billion

    Who are you referring too?

    Fruminous.

    The “31 in a billion” stat comes from a comprehensive investigation of voter impersonation claims performed by Justin Levitt of Loyola law school who has dedicated himself to researching and investigating claims of fraud.
     
    [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/08/06/a-comprehensive-investigation-of-voter-impersonation-finds-31-credible-incidents-out-of-one-billion-ballots-cast/]https://www.washingtonpos…on-ballots-cast/ [/link]
     
       

    So far, Ive found about 31 different incidents (some of which involve multiple ballots) since 2000, anywhere in the country. If you want to check my work, you can read a comprehensive list of the incidents below.
     
    To put this in perspective, the 31 incidents below come in the context of general, primary, special, and municipal elections from 2000 through 2014. In general and primary elections alone, more than [link=http://www.fec.gov/general/library.shtml]1 billion ballots[/link] were cast in that period.

    • kayla.meyer_144

      Member
      October 26, 2016 at 6:27 pm

      fw,

      It’s FRUMIOUS!

      [link]http://www.dictionary.com/browse/frumious[/link]

      • Unknown Member

        Deleted User
        October 26, 2016 at 8:17 pm

        ID laws do absolutely nothing, nil, nada, nichts to prevent voting in two different places, the example you choose to inform your spurious argument.

        And those were either simply cases of active registration in two places, or incorrect identification by registrars(Alfred P Jorgensen, and Allen P Jorgenson tagged as the same person), not actually two votes cast by the same person in the same election.

        fw, you are very clear about the value of anecdote in other discussions, but are utterly satisfied that your anecdotal information trumps the many documented cases of people, right now, being erroneously turned away from DMVs, despite proper documentation. And it has been clearly documented that it is not just 3 little old ladies in South Carolina, but literally hundreds of thousands of people in every state where the laws have been enacted, that don’t have id, and that have significant impediments to getting it, despite the condescension that your position affords you.

        Voting is a right, not a privilege. If ID is deemed essential, then the onus is on the state to make it readily obtainable, and that hasn’t been the case. Explain why so many state issued photo IDs which include residence information, and sophisticated anti counterfeiting features are deemed unsuitable at a polling place. And stop ignoring the transparent truth, admitted to by numbers of republican legislators, and repeatedly delineated by republican appointed judges, that the intent is in cold hard fact partisan voter suppression.

        • ruszja

          Member
          October 26, 2016 at 8:51 pm

          Quote from uncleduke

           
          ID laws do absolutely nothing, nil, nada, nichts to prevent voting in two different places, the example you choose to inform your spurious argument.

           
          They do. If you are required to have in-state ID, you can’t vote in another state whose state ID you don’t have.  
            

          And those were either simply cases of active registration in two places, or incorrect identification by registrars(Alfred P Jorgensen, and Allen P Jorgenson tagged as the same person), not actually two votes cast by the same person in the same election.

           
          Which cases are you referring to ?
           

            
          fw, you are very clear about the value of anecdote in other discussions, but are utterly satisfied that your anecdotal information trumps the many documented cases of people, right now, being erroneously turned away from DMVs, despite proper documentation.

           
          Cases of people who DO have the proper documentation ? I haven’t seen any proof of that. If someone who has the proper paperwork is denied a state ID, there are armies of civil rights lawyers at the ready to take those cases to court.
           

          And it has been clearly documented that it is not just 3 little old ladies in South Carolina, but literally hundreds of thousands of people in every state where the laws have been enacted, that don’t have id, and that have significant impediments to getting it, despite the condescension that your position affords you.

           
          It is true that there are ‘hundreds of thousands of people without ID’ but that does not equate to those people being denied an ID if they chose to get one.  It also doesn’t mean that those non-ID folks actually want to vote.  But ‘hundreds of thousands’ sounds a lot more impressive than ‘occasionally someone has difficulty obtaining the correct paperwork’.
          I don’t get the motivation of folks who don’t want to get a drivers license or state ID. It’s not like it protects you from getting picked up on your warrants. Really bizarre, somehow the left paints working class republicans as those toothless idiots yet somehow all those toothless idiots seem to be able to hold a drivers license while low income democrats don’t. Makes no sense.
           

          Voting is a right, not a privilege. If ID is deemed essential, then the onus is on the state to make it readily obtainable, and that hasn’t been the case.

           
          The Alabama secretary of state sends vans around to churches and nursing homes to get whoever is asking for their free voter ID. Similar outreach efforts have been made in many of the states that require voter identification. Your argument is invalid.
           

          Explain why so many state issued photo IDs which include residence information, and sophisticated anti counterfeiting features are deemed unsuitable at a polling place.

           
          Which state IDs would that be ?
           

          And stop ignoring the transparent truth, admitted to by numbers of republican legislators, and repeatedly delineated by republican appointed judges, that the intent is in cold hard fact partisan voter suppression.

           
          Just because you repeat it, it doesn’t become any truer.

    • ruszja

      Member
      October 26, 2016 at 9:01 pm

      Quote from dergon

       
        The “31 in a billion” stat comes from a comprehensive investigation of voter impersonation claims performed by Justin Levitt of Loyola law school who has dedicated himself to researching and investigating claims of fraud.

      [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/08/06/a-comprehensive-investigation-of-voter-impersonation-finds-31-credible-incidents-out-of-one-billion-ballots-cast/]https://www.washingtonpos…on-ballots-cast/ [/link]  

       
      ‘Comprehensive’ as in this person claiming to have access to every investigation of voting irregularities that has been performed by each and every local board of elections or states attorney in the 3144 counties and 41 independent cities in the US ? Sure.
       
      Could I interest you in some real estate ? It’s on Water St in Brooklyn, NY. It’s a bridge.
       
       

      • tdetlie_105

        Member
        October 26, 2016 at 9:25 pm

        How does one actively participate in society on a daily basis without a photo id? Don’t you need one to get a job? Open a bank account? Get a credit check for an apartment lease? How do these people survive? 

        • Unknown Member

          Deleted User
          October 26, 2016 at 10:06 pm

          It’s not me repeating it that makes it so, it’s the legislators who drafted and passed the laws saying it, ant the republican judges charged with adjudicating it coming to that conclusion that is compelling. The obviousness of it on its face is just icing.

          And kudos to Alabama Sec of State if that is the case. It is as it should be.

      • kayla.meyer_144

        Member
        October 27, 2016 at 2:08 am

        Quote from fw

        Quote from dergon

         
         The “31 in a billion” stat comes from a comprehensive investigation of voter impersonation claims performed by Justin Levitt of Loyola law school who has dedicated himself to researching and investigating claims of fraud.

        [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/08/06/a-comprehensive-investigation-of-voter-impersonation-finds-31-credible-incidents-out-of-one-billion-ballots-cast/]https://www.washingtonpos…on-ballots-cast/ [/link]  

        ‘Comprehensive’ as in this person claiming to have access to every investigation of voting irregularities that has been performed by each and every local board of elections or states attorney in the 3144 counties and 41 independent cities in the US ? Sure.

        Could I interest you in some real estate ? It’s on Water St in Brooklyn, NY. It’s a bridge.

        More molehills thrown up in defense. “Each and every local board of elections” data must be evaluated. You have proof that missing even 1 would negate the claims of the study based on your gut feelings and anecdotes. Truly a high artificial hurdle. Do you know of other a studies that require 100% collection of data?
         
        The problem is that not only do you not have the same date to dispute the study. You also do not have the data of “each and every board of elections” that proves your case that fraud is rampant. In fact you never give any stats at all. You fail your own requirements.
         
        But you know your guts to be true over studies. If the studies did claim and show 100% collection from all agencies and actors, you’d still reject the conclusion based on nothing.
         
        Your argument is nothing but invented flimflam based on nothing at all except what you want to believe. You have no facts at all to back up your own claims.

        • ruszja

          Member
          October 27, 2016 at 6:40 am

          I am not the one claiming a ‘comprehensive’ view of the data. If he only found 31 cases, it just means he wasn’t looking all that hard. And yes, if I wanted to use a study to prove the absence of somethint, I need to have data from at least a representative sample of the population studied. All I see is ‘advocacy science’.

          • kayla.meyer_144

            Member
            October 27, 2016 at 7:40 am

            As opposed to no science.

  • 100574

    Member
    October 28, 2016 at 7:32 pm

    registered Republican booked in Des Moines for allege voter fraud( ? voted twice)  ..a trump supporter-huff post has the article

    • ruszja

      Member
      October 28, 2016 at 8:48 pm

      Quote from sentinel lymph node

       
      registered Republican booked in Des Moines for allege voter fraud( ? voted twice)  ..a trump supporter-huff post has the article

       
      Case number 32 I guess.
       
       

      • tdetlie_105

        Member
        October 29, 2016 at 9:11 am

        [link=http://miami.cbslocal.com/2016/10/28/two-arrested-in-separate-voter-fraud-cases-in-miami-dade-county/]http://miami.cbslocal.com…-in-miami-dade-county/[/link]

        • eyoab2011_711

          Member
          October 29, 2016 at 9:27 am

          [link=http://iowapublicradio.org/post/des-moines-woman-says-she-voted-twice-trump-because-polls-are-rigged#stream/0]http://iowapublicradio.or…ls-are-rigged#stream/0[/link]

          Well since we are tossing out anecdotes….looks like voter ID didn’t keep her from voting twice..

          • Unknown Member

            Deleted User
            October 29, 2016 at 2:52 pm

            I don’t understand why people feel voter ID laws are oppressive. I’ll tell you what’s oppressive. Since I don’t have a driver’s license in the state that I moved to, I had to print out my registration, sign it, and mail it. If I had a driver’s license in the state I moved to, they would’ve checked that license and verified my ID that way. Frankly, it’s much easier to show my ID than it is to print something out and specifically go mail it.

            • eyoab2011_711

              Member
              October 29, 2016 at 4:07 pm

              your driver’s license and address should reflect your state of residence as well as where you should vote…so why do you still have an out of state driver’s license?

              • Unknown Member

                Deleted User
                October 29, 2016 at 4:26 pm

                because I’m not sure where I’ll be next year. many trainees don’t change license and registration for years even tho it’s technically required

                • Unknown Member

                  Deleted User
                  October 29, 2016 at 4:34 pm

                  But the original question, why are these voter ID laws oppressive? There are already other processes in place that are easily more oppressive. For example, the state I’m currently in has a voter registration deadline two weeks before the election. New York required registration as a democrat before campaigning had even started. A driver’s license is required to drive, watch an R rated movie, buy cigarettes, buy alcohol, enter a bar, etc.

                  • kayla.meyer_144

                    Member
                    October 31, 2016 at 4:54 am

                    People who constantly criticize government as the problem and for unnecessary and over-regulations demanding and defending the creating of unnecessary laws for faux problems is a joke much less hardly a lack of inconvenience.
                     
                    So let’s create laws requiring all voters to pick up placebos at centers located at convenient centers at a few select inner cities and minority neighborhoods and the Hall at the County seat, perhaps open at odd days and hours. The placebos do nothing but you will be required to show that you had personally picked up the government receipt at a government distribution center before you are allowed to vote.
                     
                    Very easy to do that, no? And it would prevent something I’m sure.
                     
                    They could also encourage people to come by handing out “FREE” personal foil hats and caps to prevent alien and government control and eavesdropping of brainwaves.
                     
                     

                    • kayla.meyer_144

                      Member
                      November 4, 2016 at 11:35 am

                      Play the game of voter fraud prevention, AKA, voter suppression.
                       
                      [link=http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/11/01/opinion/voting-suppression-videogame.html]http://www.nytimes.com/in…ression-videogame.html[/link]

                    • btomba_77

                      Member
                      June 30, 2017 at 3:25 am

                      Quote from Frumious

                      Play the game of voter fraud prevention, AKA, voter suppression.

                      [link=http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/11/01/opinion/voting-suppression-videogame.html]http://www.nytimes.com/in…ression-videogame.html[/link]

                      It gets worse …
                       
                      [url=http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/340194-trump-names-former-fec-member-to-voter-fraud-probe]Trump names Vote Suppressor to  voter fraud commission [/url]

                      Hans von Spakovsky, a member of the FEC nominated by former President George W. Bush, will join the presidential commission to investigate instances of voter fraud during the 2016 election.

                      Spakovsky, who runs the Election Law Reform Initiative at the right-leaning Heritage Foundation, was the only appointee who was named but not described in a White House press release Thursday night.

                      Von Spakovsky has been an ardent proponent of toughening voting laws for years, asserting the potential for massive voter fraud. But his push has drawn significant criticism from Democrats over the years, who accuse him of pushing measures that restrict voting rights. 

                      [url=http://electionlawblog.org/?p=93444]Election Law Blog Commentary by Rick Hasan: [b]President Trump Appoints Countrys Worst Vote Suppressor to His Election Integrity Commission[/b][/url]

                       

                      I  thought it could not get worse with the Pence-Kobach faux election integrity commission with the appointment of Kris Kobach, the Secretary of State of Kansas who has trumped up claims of voter fraud to advance his career and to make it harder for people to register and vote, and former Ohio SOS Ken Blackwell, who once rejected voter registration forms based upon the weight of the sheet of paper.

                      But I was wrong.

                      The President has now named Hans von Spakovsky to the Commission. I talk about him in this old Slate piece on the Fraudulent Fraud Squad, the name I give to people who falsify and exaggerate claims of voter fraud to pass laws to make it harder for people (likely to vote for Democrats) to register and to vote. I also discuss his antics in Chapter 2 of my 2012 book, The Voting Wars. von Spakovsky is not a credible person on issues of election reform.
                      [/QUOTE]

                      [url=http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/10/29/the-voter-fraud-myth]Link to a New Yorker piece on how Spakovsky stoked fear about impostors at the polls and is one of the prime agents in driving the myth of voter fraud[/url]

        • ruszja

          Member
          October 29, 2016 at 5:31 pm

          Quote from jd4540

          [link=http://miami.cbslocal.com/2016/10/28/two-arrested-in-separate-voter-fraud-cases-in-miami-dade-county/]http://miami.cbslocal.com…-in-miami-dade-county/[/link]

           
          Nothing to see here. So I guess she was just submitting those phantom registrations to create more entries in the voter rolls and there was no plan in place to actually submit fraudulent votes on election day using those registrations.

          • eyoab2011_711

            Member
            October 30, 2016 at 11:20 am

            Evidence? Usually this behavior is because they have incentives to enroll people. Doesn’t make it right, but unless you have proof that people are casting in person votes off these enrollments then you don’t have voter fraud

  • kayla.meyer_144

    Member
    October 31, 2016 at 2:16 am

    As usual the issue is being deliberately misrepresented by the Right.
     
    The question is, in light of almost absent voter fraud, the “official” stated reason for voter ID, there is no purpose to make voter ID a requirement after 200+ years of no voter ID – except in the South, historically in order to prevent Black voters from voting.
     
    Voter is a cure for a non-existent disease, other than fevered desires by the Right to reduce the effect of certain voters in voting.

    • kayla.meyer_144

      Member
      January 27, 2017 at 12:06 pm

      Oh, oh, looks like Tiffany Trump, Steve Bannon & Sean Spicer & Jared Kushner are all guilty of voter fraud!
       
      Obviously they all have to be thrown in prison.

      • eyoab2011_711

        Member
        January 27, 2017 at 12:11 pm

        Also means they voted for Clinton, since all fraudulent voters voted for her

  • btomba_77

    Member
    June 30, 2017 at 5:03 am

    [url=http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/340192-state-officials-refuse-to-turn-over-voter-roll-data-to-trump]State officials refuse to turn over voter roll data to Trump election panel[/url]

    State officials from Virginia, California and Kentucky said Thursday that they will refuse a request for voter roll data from President Trump’s commission on election integrity.

    Virginia Gov. Terry McAuliffe (D) said in a statement that he has no intention of fulfilling the request, defending the fairness of his state’s elections. He also blasted the commission in his statement, saying it was based on the “false notion” of widespread voter fraud in the November presidential election. 

    At best this commission was set up as a pretext to validate Donald Trumps alternative election facts, and at worst is a tool to commit large-scale voter suppression, McAuliffe stated.

    [/QUOTE]

    • kaldridgewv2211

      Member
      July 1, 2017 at 8:50 am

      GOP looking to control voting by making it harder to vote. We should have a government looking to make it easier to vote.

      • 100574

        Member
        July 1, 2017 at 10:40 am

        and fraud–no social security numbers should be given to any one in that current swamp in DC

        Quote from DICOM_Dan

        GOP looking to control voting by making it harder to vote. We should have a government looking to make it easier to vote.

        • btomba_77

          Member
          January 3, 2018 at 7:39 pm

          Trump disbands his bs voter fraud commission as states refuse to cooperate

          So much winning

          • kaldridgewv2211

            Member
            January 3, 2018 at 9:33 pm

            This was terrible to begin with. It’s a no good day for team Trump.

  • btomba_77

    Member
    January 22, 2018 at 3:17 pm

    Quote from DICOM_Dan

    This was terrible to begin with. It’s a no good day for team Trump.

    More details on just how terrible …
     
    [url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/trump-election-fraud-commission-bought-texas-election-data-flagging-hispanic-voters/2018/01/22/2791934a-fd55-11e7-ad8c-ecbb62019393_story.html?utm_term=.aeabbe9af6a8]Trump voting commission bought Texas election data flagging Hispanic voters[/url]
     

    President Trumps voting commission asked every state and the District for detailed voter registration data, but in Texass case it took an additional step: It asked to see Texas records that identify all voters with Hispanic surnames, newly released documents show.
     

     
     

    • btomba_77

      Member
      January 29, 2018 at 4:32 am

      [b]Colorado GOP official sentenced for voter fraud[/b]
       
       
      [link=https://www.cbsnews.com/news/steve-curtis-former-colorado-gop-chairman-sentenced-for-voter-fraud/]https://www.cbsnews.com/n…enced-for-voter-fraud/[/link]
       

      The former chairman of the Colorado Republican Party was sentenced to four years of probation and 300 hours of community service for voter fraud. Steve Curtis blamed a “major diabetic episode” for causing him to vote his ex-wife’s absentee ballot in October 2016.
       
      Curtis, 57, told District Judge Julie Hoskins Friday it was “a customary thing” for him to fill out his wife’s ballot and he didn’t know it was illegal, but he said he didn’t remember doing it.
       
      In October of 2016, Kelly Curtis called the Weld County Clerk and Recorder’s Office to obtain her mail-in ballot. She was told she had already voted, [link=http://denver.cbslocal.com/2018/01/27/gop-chairman-forgery-voter-fraud/]CBS Denver reports[/link]. 
       
      The Weld County District Attorney’s Office investigated and, using DNA evidence and handwriting analysis, alleged that Steve Curtis forged his wife’s name on her ballot and mailed it to the clerk’s office.
       
      “He knew exactly what he was doing,” said Deputy District Attorney Tate Costin during the trial’s closing arguments. “He received it in the mail, opened it, voted, signed it, sealed it back up and sent it in. If he were going to sign a name during this confused diabetic state, wouldn’t he sign his own name? Why her name? She hadn’t even lived in the house for 11 months.”

       
       
      As usual, it’s absentee voting that makes for the problem … something not addressed by voter ID.

      • kayla.meyer_144

        Member
        January 29, 2018 at 5:52 am

        Because it is minority voting that is their problem, something Republicans have been explicit about.

  • btomba_77

    Member
    April 18, 2018 at 3:52 pm

    [url=http://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/383828-kobach-held-in-contempt-in-voter-registration-case]Kobach held in contempt in voter registration case[/url]
     

    A federal judge held Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach (R) in contempt on Wednesday for repeatedly skirting court orders related to a blocked state voter registration law.
     
     
     
    The order [link=https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/kris-kobach-court-order-contempt_us_5ab14e1fe4b0decad0449fe5]comes nearly a month after a contempt hearing[/link], in which Robinson chastised Kobach for failing to fully comply with court orders. 
     
     
    As part of the contempt ruling, Robinson ordered Kobach to pay the attorneys fees of the plaintiff in the case, the American Civil Liberties Union.

    • 100574

      Member
      April 18, 2018 at 6:40 pm

      yes

      Quote from dergon

      [link=http://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/383828-kobach-held-in-contempt-in-voter-registration-case]Kobach held in contempt in voter registration case[/link]

      A federal judge held Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach (R) in contempt on Wednesday for repeatedly skirting court orders related to a blocked state voter registration law.

      The order [link=https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/kris-kobach-court-order-contempt_us_5ab14e1fe4b0decad0449fe5]comes nearly a month after a contempt hearing[/link], in which Robinson chastised Kobach for failing to fully comply with court orders. 

      As part of the contempt ruling, Robinson ordered Kobach to pay the attorneys fees of the plaintiff in the case, the American Civil Liberties Union.

    • kaldridgewv2211

      Member
      April 19, 2018 at 6:14 am

      Quote from dergon

      [link=http://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/383828-kobach-held-in-contempt-in-voter-registration-case]Kobach held in contempt in voter registration case[/link]

      A federal judge held Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach (R) in contempt on Wednesday for repeatedly skirting court orders related to a blocked state voter registration law.

      The order [link=https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/kris-kobach-court-order-contempt_us_5ab14e1fe4b0decad0449fe5]comes nearly a month after a contempt hearing[/link], in which Robinson chastised Kobach for failing to fully comply with court orders. 

      As part of the contempt ruling, Robinson ordered Kobach to pay the attorneys fees of the plaintiff in the case, the American Civil Liberties Union.

      This was like over 300k people too.  Not that it ties directly to voter fraud but Cuomo is supposedly moving on order to allow parolees to vote in NY.

      • kayla.meyer_144

        Member
        September 12, 2018 at 9:11 am

        Listening to WNYC.ORG today, the Brian Lehrer show speaking to Carol Anderson professor of African-American studies at Emory University and the author of [i]White Rage[/i][i], [/i]talks about her new book, [i]One Person, No Vote: How Voter Suppression Is Destroying Our Democracy [/i]& heard this old recording by Paul Weyrich about his being opposed to more voter participation.
         
        [link]https://youtu.be/8GBAsFwPglw[/link]
         
        Paul says it plainly, keep voter participation down as it’s the ony way to get things that Conservatives want.
         
        Also interesting thing I hears about Florida’s lifetime ban on convicted felons to vote. None other than Steinbrenner was pardoned by Reagan so that he could vote again. Steinbrenner pleaded guilty to making illegal contributions to Nixon’s re-election campaign, and to a felony charge of obstruction of justice.

  • btomba_77

    Member
    December 2, 2018 at 11:32 am

    [b]Massive Voter Fraud Suspected In North Carolina [/b] 
     

    The [link=https://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/article222436915.html]Raleigh News & Observer[/link] looks at data on mail-in ballots in North Carolinas 9th congressional district, where there are allegations of improperly collecting mail-in ballots and voters receiving mail-in ballots they did not request.
    [ul] Across the 9th district, 24% of the requested mail-in ballots were unreturned. In Robeson County, 64% of mail-in ballots requested did not make it back to elections officials. In Bladen County, the figure was 40%. The unreturned ballots are disproportionately associated with minority voters. More than 40% of the ballots requested by African Americans and more than 60% of those requested by American Indians did not make it back to elections officials. For white voters, that figure was just 17%. [/ul]
     
    _____
     
     
    [i]Bi-partisan officials in North Carolina refuse to certify election results for a hotly contested U.S. congressional district after discovering what was alleged to be[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/nc-election-officials-plan-hearing-over-fraud-concerns-in-us-house-race-raising-possibility-of-new-election/2018/11/30/d1fc0450-f4b7-11e8-aeea-b85fd44449f5_story.html?fbclid=IwAR3CW69BINlJd7Za1tEVpwNwTen80gmc2DJTE7zSzhFItJd94nvTe2qSoXM&utm_term=.3a0bafcd6c25] a coordinated effort by Republican Party staff[/link] to disenfranchise Democratic Party voters by intentionally destroying and altering their absentee ballots.[/i]
     
     
    _______
     
     
    [link=https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/is-a-do-over-election-incoming-north-carolina-republicans-alleged-to-have-committed-massive-voter-fraud/]
    [/link]
    [h3][link=https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/is-a-do-over-election-incoming-north-carolina-republicans-alleged-to-have-committed-massive-voter-fraud/]Is a Do-Over Election Incoming? North Carolina Republicans Alleged to Have Committed Major Election Fraud [/link][/h3]  
     

    • btomba_77

      Member
      April 27, 2019 at 6:01 am

      [h1]xxxxx – wrong thread[/h1]

       

  • btomba_77

    Member
    March 30, 2020 at 2:51 pm

    [h1][b]Trump Admits GOP Wouldnt Win If Voting Were Easier[/b][/h1] [b]
    [/b]
    President Trump openly admitted on Fox & Friends that if voting were made easier as Democrats pushed for in the $2.2 trillion relief bill Republicans wouldnt win elections.

    Said Trump: The things they had in there were crazy. They had levels of voting, that if you ever agreed to it youd never have a Republican elected in this country again.

    [link=https://twitter.com/LisPower1/status/1244606910462136321]Fox & Friends[/link]
     

    • katiemckee84_223

      Member
      March 30, 2020 at 7:31 pm

      “easier” means illegal, no skin in the game, and felons, doofus

      • btomba_77

        Member
        April 15, 2020 at 2:13 pm

        GOP Kentucky legislature  over-rides the Democratic governor’s veto and passes Voter ID.
         
        (All ID issuing offices are closed)

        • btomba_77

          Member
          April 15, 2020 at 2:24 pm

          [link=https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/493016-texas-ag-fear-of-covid-19-not-a-qualifying-reason-to-receive-absentee]Texas AG: COVID-19 Pandemic not a qualifying reason to receive absentee ballot

          [/link]

          Texas Attorney General [link=https://thehill.com/person/ken-paxton]Ken Paxton[/link] said that fear of the COVID-19 pandemic is not a viable reason for Texas residents to apply for an absentee ballot for this year’s upcoming elections.
           
          To vote using an absentee ballot in Texas, a voter must apply for disability, which in the Texas Election Code is defined as a “sickness or physical condition that prevents a Texan from voting in-person.
          Mail ballots based on disability are specifically reserved for those who are physically ill and cannot vote in-person as a result. Fear of contracting COVID-19 does not amount to a sickness or physical condition as required by the Legislature, Paxton [link=https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/news/releases/ag-paxton-voting-mail-based-disability-reserved-texans-actual-illness-or-medical-problem-rendering]said in a statement[/link].
           
          The integrity of our democratic election process must be maintained, and law established by our Legislature must be followed consistently.
          [/QUOTE]
           

  • savpruitt_28

    Member
    April 15, 2020 at 3:00 pm

    Seems a simple solution Dergon. Delay the November election. No? Bad idea? But seriously, many folks don’t seem to have any issue temporarily suspending constitutional rights in the name of public safety. Why not the election? If getting Trump out ASAP is really priority one then get out and vote.

    • btomba_77

      Member
      April 15, 2020 at 3:23 pm

      Because the election *can* be held safely and effectively even in the midst of a pandemic with only minor adjustments.
       
      SO… no ….I’ll pass on rescheduling the election. That would be one of the worst things for our democracy that I can imagine

      • savpruitt_28

        Member
        April 15, 2020 at 3:31 pm

        Well then that’s up the the individual states to decide isn’t it how to accommodate a safe election as they see fit. Right? I mean that’s what I hear from all those state governors that they will not be dictated to by the federal government (Trump) on how and when to restrict activities.

        • kaldridgewv2211

          Member
          April 15, 2020 at 4:00 pm

          If I can file my taxes online I should be able to vote online.

          • savpruitt_28

            Member
            April 15, 2020 at 6:06 pm

            Umm no you cant Dan. Here is what you can do online, you can have your identity stolen and have someone try to defraud the IRS of your return, which has actually been attempted on me twice that the IRS has told me about which is why I get a special code mailed to me by the IRS every year I must use to file online or they wont accept it.
             
            [link=https://www.wired.com/story/the-know-it-alls-can-i-vote-online/]https://www.wired.com/story/the-know-it-alls-can-i-vote-online/[/link]

            • kaldridgewv2211

              Member
              April 16, 2020 at 9:34 am

              I don’t disagree what you’re saying but why can I not get a special code mailed to me for voting?  Basically 2 factor authentication.  heck make it 3 factor.  If you can vote online you probably have a cell phone.  have it text you a pin number also.  Make it 4 factor.  Let it ask questions like which cars I’ve owned.
               
              I think there are ways to do it securely is my point.

              • savpruitt_28

                Member
                April 16, 2020 at 10:15 am

                I hear what youre saying. Certainly if the end user was willing and able to take steps to guarantee their identity then maybe it could be workable. My example is voluntary, I can always mail my tax return, and because its just a tax return it can be fixed later (unlike a vote). But, considering that any measures to limit voter fraud is met with partisan hysterics and accusations of voter suppression I think you would have infinitely better luck making pigs fly. And I would agree with the objectors, the steps required to ensure a working systems security, while perhaps seemingly simple for nerds such as us, would be considered well beyond unreasonably onerous to the poor, elderly and non-tech-savvy voter.
                 
                You cannot balance the desire for free and universal unfettered access to voting with the reality of online security requirements. To even start that ball rolling you need… an ID… and many folks think that is asking to much.

              • kayla.meyer_144

                Member
                April 16, 2020 at 10:19 am

                I do disagree. I have filed for years online with no issues. I have done banking and financial trading online with no issues.
                 
                The fact is that any online presence has its risks and everyone who is online should be taking precautions.
                 
                The fact that Trump votes by mail which is the issue at this time, not online voting. 
                 
                Mail voting should be expanded to everyone to use.

                • savpruitt_28

                  Member
                  April 16, 2020 at 10:49 am

                   I have filed for years online with no issues. I have done banking and financial trading online with no issues.
                   
                  Famous last words if every I heard them. Count yourself lucky. Yes I too had several years if trouble-free online filing… until I didnt. Ive had to cancel 3 separate credit cards in the span of 2 months in recent years. But its gotten better since I have apps on my phone that alert me any time a purchase happens against my cards and I can immediately flag them as not me and the credit agencies all have me flagged victim of fraud which takes extra steps to get new credit. The effort is worth it for my convenience I think.
                   
                  But Again, all this comes down to… We have to prove to these institutions who we are. And then active security steps are required, mostly on their end but also on our end in that we need to recognize illegitimate transactions and alert the companies promptly, to maintain it. Sorry this is not something all voters can do or should be expected to do.

                  • kayla.meyer_144

                    Member
                    April 16, 2020 at 11:13 am

                    Does decades count? It’s more than just luck.
                     
                    Yes, I have had to change credit cards on more than a single occasion. And yes, having the bank respond quickly, sometimes immediately adds much to security. 
                     
                    And regarding credit cards, you often get defrauded in person, not necessarily online. The last time I got fraudulent charges was using my card in person, face-to-face & not online, although that is a bit misleading considering all transactions outside of cash are online in some fashion anyway. A short time later I noticed a couple of relatively small purchases I assume the scammers were using to test the card. 
                     
                     

  • savpruitt_28

    Member
    April 16, 2020 at 11:55 am

    Does decades count? It’s more than just luck.
     
    Thats what the lucky always say ๐Ÿ˜‰ You sound like my dad Im a better driver cause Ive never been in an accident! Clearly I am an inferior driver.
     
    But by all means, if you have a special formula that has protected you from IRS fraud you should share it, or better yet sell it. I am all ears, or eyes, as it were.

    P.S. I will share my tip. A couple years ago I received a alert-bill from a Store CC company that I thought was long deactivated cause I wasnt using it. What caught my eye was my name was spelled wrong. I called the company, apparently they fraudsters were able to submit a random name change request (I dont know online or inside a store this happened across the country) which reactivated the account and allowed them to rack up several hundred dollars of charges before it triggered the fraud alarms. I asked the cc person how to prevent this and she said the only protection was to completely close unused accounts, deactivating wasnt enough because reactivating an account does not go through the usual security and credit checks that opening a fresh account does.

    • kayla.meyer_144

      Member
      April 16, 2020 at 1:14 pm

      Quote from over-caffeinated

      Does decades count? It’s more than just luck.

      Thats what the lucky always say ๐Ÿ˜‰ You sound like my dad Im a better driver cause Ive never been in an accident! Clearly I am an inferior driver.

      Clearly I never inferred or said that or even came close to your being inferior at anything. Why present extreme statements as if I in any way implied anything like that just to make your point? Is that the only way you can discuss differing opinions?
       
      You want to avoid online stuff because there is a risk, fine. your choice. i don’t share that fear of online. 
       
      And I gather Dan does not share your online avoidance either.

      • savpruitt_28

        Member
        April 16, 2020 at 2:14 pm

        Hey you said its more than just luck I am asking what that more is? I genuinely want to know what you are talking about. 
         
        See I can link articles all day, just do a google search online voting security you will get article after article saying is a bad bad idea. States have tried it and abandoned it, countries have tried it, and abandoned it. Yet here you are wanting it. Why? Why would you want a provably insecure system that will be beyond the technical capabilities of many voters just for a small convenience? Did you even come here to discuss it? And now you are implying I am afraid of doing stuff online, no I am not, never said I was. But I understand there are risks and take active steps to mitigate them and there are fraud protections for me personally and i know that many times its the business owner who pays not the CC company. I feel these steps and risks are not appropriate for a general election system.

        • kayla.meyer_144

          Member
          April 16, 2020 at 3:17 pm

          It’s paying attention to your computer and online activity, that’s what it is that’s more than luck.
           
          And I was talking about voting by mail, not online. States can’t even get their merde together now about regular voting not to mention that many states are a bit backwards as far as computers and online activity is concerned. Some are in the dark ages of computing like the IRS. So yes, I will agree with you that voting online is not yet ready for prime time but voting by mail is and your answer to Dan covered a lot more than just about voting by mail that I disagreed with.

          • savpruitt_28

            Member
            April 16, 2020 at 4:18 pm

            I got nothing for or against vote by mail, its a state decision as far as I am concerned. Having lived in both vote-by-mail and non-vote-by-mail states. I dont understand the desire for it either way, if you look at voter participation by states there seems no correlation between vote-by-mail and increased participation so… whatever. The only thing I can say anecdotally is there seemed to be a lot more buzz/enthusiasm/press leading up to election day in the non-mail-vote states whereas the vote-by-mail state I lived in was pretty… ummm… boring on election day, just another day cause most of the voting had already occurred days/weeks before.

            • kayla.meyer_144

              Member
              April 16, 2020 at 5:18 pm

              I think the pandemic and social distancing might be helped by vote by mail as opposed to what Wisconsin went through.
               
              Why make voting harder instead of easier?

              • savpruitt_28

                Member
                April 16, 2020 at 6:38 pm

                Why make voting harder instead of easier?
                 
                You know. I had that exact same thought watching the Iowa caucuses. Overly complicated and cumbersome, must have been designed by an insane person. But I am not from Iowa. They would probably tell me to go F myself if I went there and told them how to run a proper primary.

                • btomba_77

                  Member
                  April 17, 2020 at 8:56 am

                  [link=https://twitter.com/DavidNir/status/1250890250089619459?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1250890250089619459&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.flyertalk.com%2Fforum%2Fomni-pr%2F1566185-republican-war-democracy-continues-13.html]https://twitter.com/DavidNir/status/1250890250089619459?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1250890250089619459&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.flyertalk.com%2Fforum%2Fomni-pr%2F1566185-republican-war-democracy-continues-13.html[/link]
                  Clever. A lawsuit is filed against Nevada’s Republican Secretary of State  to get access to an all-mail election given the pandemic …
                   
                  …the lead plaintiff is a voter (and mayor of a small town) named Daniel [b]Corona[/b]. The case caption? [b]CORONA v. CEGAVSKE[/b]

                  • btomba_77

                    Member
                    July 17, 2020 at 5:39 am

                    Republicans Tell Trump to Change Tune on Mail Ballots

                    Republican officials throughout the country are reacting with growing alarm to President Donald Trumps attacks on mail-in ballots, saying his unsubstantiated claims of mass voting fraud are already corroding the views of GOP voters, who may ultimately choose not to vote at all if they cant make it to the polls come November, CNN reports.
                    Behind the scenes, top Republicans are urging senior Trump campaign officials to press the President to change his messaging and embrace mail-in voting, warning that the party could lose the battle for control of Congress and the White House if he doesnt change his tune Trump officials, sources said, are fully aware of the concerns.

                    • btomba_77

                      Member
                      July 18, 2020 at 8:02 am

                      [link]https://youtu.be/5sD888UnegM[/link]

  • clickpenguin_460

    Member
    July 18, 2020 at 8:23 am

    Mail-in voting does increase fraud but the overall fraud is still low.  I think the issue is that we should want voting to be a zero-fraud situation.  I actually don’t see mail-in voting as a partisan issue though.  It seems like Republicans are just behind in their “mail-in game” so they will lose in the short term but in general, Republican voters may actually be more reliable in the long term with mail-ins.
     
    The issue I have is with ballot harvesting and that practice seems to get tied in with mail-in voting.
     
    How do you feel about ballot harvesting, dergon?

    • btomba_77

      Member
      July 19, 2020 at 5:47 am

      [link=https://www.langerresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/1214a22020Election.pdf]Washington Post-ABC News poll[/link]

      MAIL IT? Eighty-six percent of registered voters say theyre certain to cast a ballot in the November election, somewhat higher than typical at this point in recent cycles it was 79 to 81 percent in July 2016, 2012 and 2008 alike. In what manner theyll vote is another question.

      Thirty-eight percent of Americans say theyd prefer to vote by mail, 59 percent in person.

      In 2016, for context, 24 percent voted by mail, according to the U.S. Election Assistance Commission. Its a key point of interest given efforts by some states to encourage mail-in voting as a way to avoid virus infection at in-person polling places.

      If mail balloting does surge, counting those ballots could delay the vote count beyond election night. Trump has pushed back against mail-in voting, alleging that its open to fraud, and the argument has some resonance: Forty-nine percent see voting by mail as vulnerable to significant levels of fraud, while 43 percent think adequate protections against significant fraud are in place.

      Partisanship divides these views. Among Biden supporters, just 28 percent see mail-in voting as vulnerable to substantial fraud, and 54 percent say its how they prefer to vote. Among Trump supporters, by contrast, 78 percent see mail-in voting as vulnerable, and only 17 percent prefer to vote that way.

      Among people who prefer to vote by mail, 23 percent see it as vulnerable to significant fraud. This soars to 67 percent of those who prefer to vote in person.

      Other factors come into play. Preference to vote by mail is much higher in the West, 56 percent, likely reflecting its prevalence there, vs. as low as 25 percent in the Northeast. Its also much higher among college graduates than non-graduates.

      • clickpenguin_460

        Member
        July 19, 2020 at 7:26 am

        Okay.
         
        1.  Do you think mail-in ballots increase the chances for fraud?
        2.  Do you think ballot harvesting should be legal?

        • btomba_77

          Member
          July 19, 2020 at 7:38 am

          1) No.  So long as the traditional safeguards are in place (only sending ballots to registered voters, only mailing to the registered voter address, etc).  There has been military absentee voting for a long time as well as numerous states … none show significant increase in fraud.
           
          2) Yes. “Ballot Collection” should be legal. (I considering “harvesting” to be an intentionally loaded Frank Luntz kind of GOP talking point term meant to give the impression of vague impropriety.)  It does slightly increase the potential for illegal activity on the part of the collector, depending on their motives, but I consider the net benefit to outweigh the risk.
           
          But I’d actually be fine with blocking the practice *if* it was coupled with a mandate that absentee ballots come postage pre-paid.  If a person could simply complete their form and return to their own mail box for USPS pick up, that would eliminate the need for the majority of ballot collection activities. 
           

          • clickpenguin_460

            Member
            July 19, 2020 at 7:46 am

            I agree with 1.  I think the issue is that [i]this[/i] election, those safeguards can’t be guaranteed because of the rushed nature.
             
            I don’t think any form of ballot collection/harvesting/etc. should be legal.  If you’re going to vote, you should be responsible for “turning it in.”  We already have had several instances in CA (Dem) and one in NC (Rep) where ballot harvesting ranged from likely fraud to actual fraud. 
             
            Pre-paid postage is actually a really good idea and that would be a fine compromise for me.

            • btomba_77

              Member
              July 28, 2020 at 4:31 am

              [b]Trumps Opposition to Mail Ballots Hurting GOP[/b][/h1]  
               
               
              Republicans once dominated voting by mail in Florida. But that was before President Donald Trump got involved, the [link=https://apnews.com/5d36db352527a393e7dc7b78afc2111a]AP[/link] reports.
              After months of hearing Trump denigrate mail-in balloting, Republicans in the critical battleground state now find themselves far behind Democrats in the perennial push to urge their voters to cast ballots remotely. While Democrats have doubled the number of their voters who have requested mail ballots compared to 2016, Republicans have increased their numbers by about 20% since then.
              The recent tally is the hard evidence confirming many Republicans fears about Trumps tweeting about mail-in voting: GOP voters are listening and appear less likely to take advantage of what many election and health officials agree is the easiest and safest way to vote in a pandemic.

               

              • btomba_77

                Member
                July 30, 2020 at 9:08 am

                [b]The Risks of Mail Voting for Democrats[/b][/h1]  
                 
                [link=https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/democrats-are-strongly-pushing-mail-voting-its-pitfalls-could-boost-n1235289]David Wasserman[/link]: Trailing Joe Biden in polls, President Trump is attacking mail-in voting as a potential source of illegal Democratic votes on a near-daily basis. But the biggest risk of a pandemic-induced crush of mail-in votes isnt fraud, an extraordinarily rare occurrence in American elections.
                 
                The real danger is a perfect catastrophe of administrative overload, postal delays and voter error that could lead to millions of absentee ballots not counting. And this year, unlike the past, those ballots are likely to be overwhelmingly Democratic.
                 
                The problem for Democrats? Absentee ballots are rejected at higher rates than those cast in person.

                 

                • kaldridgewv2211

                  Member
                  July 30, 2020 at 9:33 am

                  just call it the universal absentee ballot program and I think you overcome DJTs objections.

                  • btomba_77

                    Member
                    July 30, 2020 at 1:19 pm

                    [link=https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/509850-michal-jordan-donates-25-million-to-combat-voter-suppression]Michael Jordan donates $2.5 million to combat voter suppression

                    [/link]

                    Michael Jordan and the NBA legends Jordan Brand are set to donate $2.5 million to organizations combatting voter suppression of Black Americans across the country. 
                    The donation will give $1 million each to the NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund and the Formerly Incarcerated, Convicted Peoples and Families Movement. The organization Black Voters Matter, which focuses on increasing voter registration and turnout, will receive $500,000, [link=https://news.nike.com/news/michael-jordan-and-jordan-brand-announce-initial-partners-for-100-million-10-year-commitment]according to a Wednesday statement[/link].
                    The recipients were selected based on their ability to take action that can create impact now, according to the statement. They will initially focus on cities and states where Black people are underrepresented in voter registration and turnout relative to their share of the overall population. 
                    The donation is [link=https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/501425-michael-jordan-donates-100-million-to-fight-for-racial-equality]part of a $100 million, 10-year pledge[/link] that the basketball star made last month to organizations dedicated to ensuring racial equality, social justice and greater access to education, according to a statement at the time. The initiative will[link=https://news.nike.com/news/michael-jordan-and-jordan-brand-announce-initial-partners-for-100-million-10-year-commitment] focus specifically on three areas,[/link] including social justice, economic justice and education and awareness. 
                    [/QUOTE]
                     

                    • btomba_77

                      Member
                      August 2, 2020 at 1:52 pm

                      [link=https://twitter.com/markmobility/status/1289919118468976641]https://twitter.com/markmobility/status/1289919118468976641[/link]
                       
                      Guess who’s encouraging his voters to vote by mail?

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