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Here is the original Obama Joe the Plumber
[link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElPBxiVxVEw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElPBxiVxVEw[/link]
Now decide for yourself
Is Obama a socialist
Was Joe making up or at least exagerrating his situation.
How would Palin…McCain or George Bush handled this completely off the cuff conversation.
It is just over 5 minutes but no propaganda or out of context just the facts. -
41 Replies
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Good exercise. Interesting point that never gets mentioned: Mr. Obama says he “makes a lot more than $250,000”. Uh….. where is this coming from? A senator’s salary is $169,300.
Joe doesn’t call anyone anything. Mr. Obama goes round and round on Joe’s situation, attempting to minimize the impact on Joe’s plans, and noting how the tax increases are supposed to help people get to the $250k status faster. You can spin it as fair, I can spin it as “wealth redistribution.” And of course it’s just a [i]little[/i] bit of extra tax.
Oh, and by the way, he mentions NO capital gains taxes for small business? Where did [i]that[/i] one come from, and how it that going to work? Sounds like a great recipe for creative accounting…. Let’s all divide up our businesses so we are composed of small entities that earn $249,999 and have them invest in our name!
The more you listen, the more convoluted this tax plan becomes.-
[b]Let’s all divide up our businesses so we are composed of small entities that earn $249,999 and have them invest in our name![/b]
[b][/b]
I am actually planning on doing this with my real estate holdings particularly if Obama eliminates capital gains for small business…..as he plans.-
That is very unpatriotic of you (according to Joe Biden)…
And this is my point exactly. As strong Obama supporter, you are going to adapt to the environment is such a way to avoid paying those taxes. That is why those tax increases NEVER get as much money as the so called experts predict.
Thanks for proving my point.
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Thanks, MISTRAD! I was hoping I didn’t have to be the bearer of bad news to erad.
Those who believe in extra taxation should feel free to send the government extra money on their own volition. Those who don’t, like me and erad, should be very careful for whom they vote.-
My point is simply this:
If you think Obama’s tax plan is going to benefit the country as a whole, you should be happy to pay the additional taxes.
Otherwise, you are a hypocrite.
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Not happy, but ok with it compared to the alternatives. And yes all those with creative accountants will find a way around it, that’s why we need to completely simplify the tax code to a progressive percentage of income. No deductions, no games, no nothing. Never happen, but it would be a heck of a lot simpler and more reliable in terms of what is coming into the government (of course there would be a lot of jobless IRS workers and tax accountants, so you really can’t win)
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Even Joe asked about flat tax, but of course that wouldn’t do.
I’ll ask again…how is it that a US Senator is making “way more than $250,000”?
And erad, we’re waiting for your comments about wanting to dodge the tax? It’ll be legal you say? Gee, that’s what the self-referrers say about ordering in-office scans. I guess we’re no better than they are.-
[b]And erad, we’re waiting for your comments about wanting to dodge the tax? It’ll be legal you say?[/b]
Hey,
I don’t make the the rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In fact I do not know exactly what they will be yet.
But when they come out I will take as full advantage of them as I possibly can…………..legally of course.-
Which is exactly what the self-referrers do.
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[b]Which is exactly what the self-referrers do.[/b]
Really, How so
I’d be working within the framework of the tax code.
Self-referrers are using their bias to have many patients go through unneccessary tests often on sub optimal equipment and sometimes putting patients at risk.
I don’t say how you can say those are apples to be compared.
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Because both require using loopholes in the law to bilk the system. Don’t get all innocent on me, now. If avoiding taxation is desireable, why are you voting for an increase?
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And by the way, concerning Mr. Obama’s income: [link=http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/17/us/politics/17obama.html?ref=politics]http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/17/us/politics/17obama.html?ref=politics[/link]
$4 Mil last year, mainly from book deals. Being a candidate sure helps your book sales! And I’m sure he will pay his share in taxes as President. Of course, his personal expenses will plummet…he will have a mansion, 747, limosines, Camp David, staff, babysitters, cooks, etc. etc. etc. at our expense. Now [i][b]THAT’S[/b][/i] what I call [color=#ff0000][b][i]REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH[/i][/b][/color]! -
Dalai is losing his mind…
Maybe he should take some time off and practice transcribing on powerscribe. -
I lost my mind a long time ago, thanks.
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erad, unfortunately dalai is right.
You are using the loopholes in the tax code to benefit your bottom line.
Self referrers use loopholes in Stark and other regulations to get away with murder.
Both of you are within legal bounds, but that doesn’t mean that you are following the intent of the law.
But erad, if rich people like you avoid paying taxes, and Obama gives big tax credits to the middle class, where is the money coming from?
By the way, erad, I am playing devil’s advocate; I am sure everyone on this board, McCain and Obama supporters alike, are going to do things similar to what you are suggesting. But that goes to the heart of why Obama’s plan will eventually fall apart.
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The tax code, which is the size of a dictionary, is nothing but loopholes.
The only solution is a complete overhaul of the tax code. -
[b]Because both require using loopholes in the law to bilk the system.[/b]
I don’t see it that way -
[b]I don’t see it that way[/b] – [b]erad[/b]
That is an alter reality and a double standard. On the one hand you support redisribution of wealth and increased taxes for everybody else, on the other hand you are already plotting how you are going to get around paying your “fair share”. This strikes me as hypocricy a la Sharpton. -
[b]On the one hand you support redisribution of wealth and increased taxes for everybody else, on the other hand you are already plotting how you are going to get around paying your “fair share”.[/b]
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[b][/b]
Sorry but now it is time to play smackdown
If you want to call me a hypocrite
Then how can you as a Conservative republican sterongly against government entitlements and basically socialized medicine…………accept any payment whatsoever for medicare services?
Explain that to me. -
C’mon Dalai lets here form you…………………………..MISTRAD…………………..c’mon lets hear from all the moral guardians of righteousness.
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Don’t like getting hoisted by your own petard, do you, erad?
You are changing the subject big time to hide your own hypocracy. You go along with all this rhetoric about moving money to the middle class, yada yada yada and then you tell us you plan to do everything that the loopholes will allow you to do to get out of it. At least admit to yourself that increased taxation is NOT a good idea! We all say that loudly!
Accepting payments from Medicare is hardly comparable. This is a long-existing program, and I don’t have to skirt the intent of the program or the law to collect. There are practices out there that do better by [i]refusing[/i] Medicare patients altogether. Accepting it is a service to my fellow old folks, making me a more caring individual than some.
Try again, erad. That example falls flat on its face. Your otherwise superb logic deteriorates when you get flustered.
And I’ll repeat…if you don’t like paying extra taxes, and you have declared very, very loudly that you don’t, be very careful for whom you vote 12 days from now. -
[b]At least admit to yourself that increased taxation is NOT a good idea! We all say that loudly![/b]
I have never said that.
I have said that I could accept Clinton level taxes. And basically that is what Obama is proposing.
It has been you guys that have claimed he his going to tax us upwards of 70%…..I don’t beleive he will.
[b]You go along with all this rhetoric about moving money to the middle class, yada yada yada and then you tell us you plan to do everything that the loopholes will allow you to do to get out of it.[/b]
Again….I am not the sole decider inmaking the rules…………….but I will play by those rules………….and I will play to the best of my ability………….No shame in that.
[b]Accepting payments from Medicare is hardly comparable.[/b]
I disagree. I think it is completely comparable to “legally” taking advantage of a tax code that you may not agree with but…………….those are the rules of the game.
[b]And I’ll repeat…if you don’t like paying extra taxes, and you have declared very, very loudly that you don’t, be very careful for whom you vote 12 days from now.[/b]
Again I have confidence in myself to make money in any economy………………I just think it is much easier when everyone else is making money and has extra to spend.
I honestly think Obams’s policy makes tha more likely. -
Sorry, I’m not buying it, erad. If you think the new taxation rates are fair, then don’t pull a “self-referrer” and use a loophole to pay less. Put up or shut up. You can’t talk your way out of this one.
And you [i]do[/i] have a say in the making of the rules….you can vote for the guy you know [i]will[/i] increase taxes, or for the guy you know [i]won’t[/i] increase taxes. -
[b]If you think the new taxation rates are fair, then don’t pull a “self-referrer” and use a loophole to pay less. Put up or shut up. You can’t talk your way out of this one.
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I’ll make you a deal if you quit taking Medicare money I’ll stop taking advantags of Legal tax loopholes -
ORIGINAL: eradicator
I’ll make you a deal if you quit taking Medicare money I’ll stop taking advantags of Legal tax loopholes
That is a really silly argument. I’m disappointed in you, erad. -
I think eradicator is a closet Republican. He’s admitted that he doesn’t think that paying more taxes is pariotic. I bet that when he pulls the curtain he’s going to push the MCCain button, as will most of the 13% “undecided” voters.
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ORIGINAL: eradicator
[b]On the one hand you support redisribution of wealth and increased taxes for everybody else, on the other hand you are already plotting how you are going to get around paying your “fair share”.[/b]
[b][/b]
[b][/b]
Sorry but now it is time to play smackdownIf you want to call me a hypocrite
Then how can you as a Conservative republican sterongly against government entitlements and basically socialized medicine…………accept any payment whatsoever for medicare services?
Explain that to me.
You guys keep telling us Medicare is not socialism…and neither is Obama’s Health care plan.
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[b]I have said that I could accept Clinton level taxes. And basically that is what Obama is proposing.[/b]
Um, you aren’t accepting those tax levels, if you are already looking for ways to avoid those taxes.
[b]Again….I am not the sole decider inmaking the rules…………….but I will play by those rules………….and I will play to the best of my ability………….No shame in that. [/b]
You guys tell us it is patriotic to pay taxes…so why can’t we call you unpatriotic? And if you really believe in Obama’s proposals, then you should be opting into paying those taxes…not opting out. It is clear evidence that you yourself believe that YOU are better at spending your own money, rather than Obama and the government.
[b]…Medicare…[/b]
You want to argue that is socialism, fine. And if you are arguing we are hypocrites for taking medicare money, o.k., I am even willing to accept that.
But it also means you are a hypocrite on this tax issue. And a clear hypocrite at that. And that you yourself don’t even believe in Obama’s tax plan helping america, if a strong believer such as yourself can’t even ‘buy in’.
[b]Again I have confidence in myself to make money in any economy………………I just think it is much easier when everyone else is making money and has extra to spend.
I honestly think Obams’s policy makes tha more likely. [/b]
Understand…Obama’s policy don’t work if people like you and me find ways NOT TO PAY EXTRA TAXES!!! His plan goes out the window. You can’t avoid the increase taxes, and expect OTHER RICH PEOPLE to pay your way.
The funny thing is this is the most truthful thing you have said in months. And each person here that is supporting Obama feels the same way. You don’t mind higher taxes, when it is somebody else. You don’t mind Obama spending tax money, when it isn’t your money.
You want to call us hypocrites on medicare, etc….so be it.
But you are clearly a hypocrite on this issue….and it goes to the heart of why Obama’s plan will fail.
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[b]You guys tell us it is patriotic to pay taxes…so why can’t we call you unpatriotic?[/b]
Would you like to tell me when exactly I said that?
[b]Understand…Obama’s policy don’t work if people like you and me find ways NOT TO PAY EXTRA TAXES!!![/b]
I am saying that at all. What I am saying is that the small business/business that I control….will take advantages of any tax benfit it can.
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Fuhget abouddit, erad. You lose this one. Sorry about that.
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ORIGINAL: eradicator
[b]You guys tell us it is patriotic to pay taxes…so why can’t we call you unpatriotic?[/b]
Would you like to tell me when exactly I said that?
[b]Understand…Obama’s policy don’t work if people like you and me find ways NOT TO PAY EXTRA TAXES!!![/b]
I am saying that at all. What I am saying is that the small business/business that I control….will take advantages of any tax benfit it can.
You didn’t say paying taxes was patriotic…your vice presidential candidate did.
And those tax advantages that you are talking about? That is exactly the same kind of thinking that lets big business, big oil, and the ultra wealthy from paying what you guys call ‘your fair share’.
And if every one of the people that fall under the increased taxes do what you do…how does Obama’s tax plan work? Easy answer…it doesnt. And if you vote for Obama, you should believe that he is smarter than you, and can spend your money more wisely for the greater good than you can.
Why don’t you want to pay your fair share, erad?
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And you won’t pay more when Mccain freezes the government and congress revolts???? I doubt Mccain will be able to overcome large advantage dems will have in congress—
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He can veto the Congress…and let them pass tax cuts all on their own. Good luck with that. The blue dogs would rebel, let alone the few moderate Dems remaining in Congress.
I will take my chances with McCain, rather than the red carpet that Obama will be to the tax and spend Dems…
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The dems may get enough support on economic issues to override MCPALINS veto…….watch out bub its going to be a landslide—even heavy republican districts are seeing tightening of the races due to economy.
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Let them.
They didn’t even want to take credit for this recent bailout on their own…they wanted Republican votes to give them cover.
If they want to raise taxes unilaterally…more power to them. Pelosi and Reid don’t have the spine to do it…
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[b]Why don’t you want to pay your fair share, erad?[/b]
I plan on paying my fair share and not a penny more.
Hey look at the bright side at lest I don’t have to be like Dalai and stop taking vacations……can’t by that new car….can retire early.
Shoooooot it is good be one uf us liberal elites. -
ERAD,
If you would spend as much time investigating Barry Obama as you have “Joe the Plumer”, maybe you might not be so keen on his radical left socialist agenda! Read “Obama Nation”.
Very enlightening. -
ORIGINAL: eradicator
[b]Why don’t you want to pay your fair share, erad?[/b]
I plan on paying my fair share and not a penny more.
Hey look at the bright side at lest I don’t have to be like Dalai and stop taking vacations……can’t by that new car….can retire early.
Shoooooot it is good be one uf us liberal elites.
I am sure Obama’s intent is for people like you and me to pay 39.6% of their income in taxes…not to use every tax break possible. Because if we all do what you are doing, the government will be broke…after Obama’s proposed spending.
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Dead at 49: Wurzelbacher died [link=https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/redirect-to/?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wtol.com%2Farticle%2Fnews%2Fnational%2Fjoe-the-plumber-wurzelbacher-death-pancreatic-cancer-obama-mccain%2F512-3181631e-e6c5-4227-8f76-e271e2faff8c]yesterday[/link] of pancreatic cancer.
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ORIGINAL: eradicator
[b]Because both require using loopholes in the law to bilk the system.[/b]
I don’t see it that way
All people that use loopholes see it as following the law…that is why they are called loopholes.
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[b]Thanks for proving my point.[/b]
You are welcome.
You have to know how to roll with punches.
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