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DACA is popular. It would be a key part of an immigration bill.
It’s just not popular enough to shut down the government over [i]and[/i] the places where it is less popular are places where Democratic Senate incumbents have to run in 2018.
If it was a messaging war of “DACA vs NO DACA” DACA would win. That’s not the current state of the politics.-
this is why 15/hr and DACA should be coupled–everyone would be on board
Quote from dergon
DACA is popular. It would be a key part of an immigration bill.
It’s just not popular enough to shut down the government over [i]and[/i] the places where it is less popular are places where Democratic Senate incumbents have to run in 2018.
If it was a messaging war of “DACA vs NO DACA” DACA would win. That’s not the current state of the politics.
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Senate reaches bipartisan agreement to put 2 year budget. Will lift spending caps both for military [i]and[/i] domestic programs, provide disaster relief. There is also some duration od debt ceiling raise (tbd).
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Then it gets tougher in the House.
Ryan will need a lot of Democratic votes to push through this deficit-buster of a plan as the Freedom Caucus refuses to sign on. Pelosi is saying she won’t support it unless Ryan gives her the same deal that McConnell gave Schumer on immigration … a guarantee to allow an immigration bill to come to the floor for debate. (Ryan doesn’t want to do that because it would violate the Hastert rule and would also have a decent chance of getting DACA through in both Houses without much else to show for conservatives) -
Rand Paul prevents a vote on the Senate budget bill….
Looks like we’re heading for at least a short shutdown.-
He’s got principles. These clowns should just pass a budget that is deficit neutral. Take up immigration as a separate topic. It’s not even a clean budget as it’s got different and iffy tax breaks in it.
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still obscure as to why the neighbor attacked him
Quote from dergon
Rand Paul prevents a vote on the Senate budget bill….
Looks like we’re heading for at least a short shutdown.
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[url=https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/08/congress-massive-budget-deal-2018-398189]House passes budget. Shutdown over[/url]
Senate 71-28
House 240-186
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Once again, with a Republican President, Republicans are all in on, “Deficits don’t matter!”
Anyone surprised? I’m not. History repeating since Reagan. And Bush I and Bush II and now Trump.
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No shut down after all:
[b]Trump’s base furious over fake veto threat[/b]A former White House official tells [link=https://www.axios.com/trump-infuriates-his-base-with-tweeted-veto-bluff-7af94173-d6c4-48f0-87a8-21ec82eb6645.html?source=sidebar]Mike Allen[/link] that online conservative ire about the spending bill President Trump signed yesterday after a puzzling tweeted veto feint is the hardest Ive ever seen the base turn on Trump over anything.
Said the official: A big reason why people voted for him was because of his apparent willingness to stand up to the entrenched political class in both parties. Voters wanted a fighter who wouldnt back down to the swamp like a typical politician. They were attracted to his strength and alpha mentality, but unfortunately yesterdays fake veto threat did little but make him look weak and his base took notice.
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[b]How Trump delivered on Obama’s funding priorities[/b]President Trumps budget proposals have taken a hatchet to President Obamas top priorities. Theyve called for deep cuts in renewable energy, medical research and nonmilitary spending in general, [link=https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/03/23/heres-whats-in-the-budget-bill-nobodys-bothered-to-read-217701]Politico[/link] reports.
Now the Republicans who control Congress have passed a $1.3 trillion omnibus spending bill, and it not only protects Obamas priorities, it expands them.
The omnibusCapitol Hill jargon for a single spending bill that funds most government functionsdoes not kill any of the programs or agencies Trumps budget proposed to kill It basically extends the fiscal status quo that has prevailed since the start of Obamas second termplus a sizable chunk of new deficit spendingeven though Republicans now control the legislative and executive branches.
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Classic Tuesday Trump vs Thursday Trump situation. Kind of like not hiring the 2 lawyers he appointed.
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Funny. Trump complaining that Amazon doesn’t pay enough federal taxes.
How much has he paid over the past 2 decades again? And that loss write down since the $Billion loss in the 1990’s?
And after celebrating the $1.5 trillion budget buster tax bill?
Pass the Kool Aid please.-
President Trump reiterated his willingness Monday to allow the government to shut down this fall if he does not receive sufficient funding for border security but he declined to take a firm stance on the specific amount of money he would accept, [link=https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/30/politics/trump-shutdown-threat-news-conference/index.html]CNN[/link] reports.
Said Trump: If we dont get border security after many, many years of talk within the United States, I would have no problem doing a shutdown. Its time we have proper border security. Were the laughingstock of the world. We have the worst immigration laws anywhere in the world.
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I hope he is not bluffing or afflicted too much with ADD that he forgets
SQUIRREL!
Where was I again? Oh yeah, Mueller & the Russian conspiracy. I mean NO COLLUSION!
Wha? Where was I again? Oh yeah, speaking of chaos, my Administration….
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Kind of looks like GOP Congress is walking back on the whole shut the government down thing for him
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Unknown Member
Deleted UserJuly 30, 2018 at 6:52 pmHere is what I dont understand
We know the next democrat president is going to tear down any wall built right
So why waste the money building it
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Well, this is interesting. A Democratic economist agreeing with Republicans that deficits DON’T matter, the disagreement with them being that it doesn’t even matter when a Democratic president is in office.
I have to think about it but it doesn’t sound completely incorrect. But there is a limit, has to be, just not sure where it is.
[link=https://www.barrons.com/articles/stephanie-kelton-wantsyou-to-rethink-the-deficit-1536853788]https://www.barrons.com/a…the-deficit-1536853788[/link]
Stephanie Kelton, an economics professor at Stony Brook University on Long Island in New York, has a radical new way for thinking about the economy: Governments that print and borrow their own currency cant go bankrupt, she says, and the current U.S. budget deficit is, if anything, too small.
That kind of thinking is part of a school of economic thought known as modern monetary theory, or MMT, which [link=https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2018/03/09/2199190/stephanie-kelton-explains-how-the-government-budget-affects-the-economy-and-the-mechanics-of-student-debt-forgiveness/?mod=article_inline]Kelton has helped develop[/link].
Kelton, 48, explained to the room in Kansas City that the government budget is not like a household budget because the government prints its own money. But the problem is that Washington always wants to know how to pay for new programs.
Thats a problem for you, she says she told her listeners, because the conventional wisdom in the capital is that money grows on rich people and you pay for nice things by taking it from them.
Dont look at me, she instructed her audience to tell lawmakers. [i]Thats[/i] where the money comes from. And you point at the Treasury. You point at Congress. And she won the room over.
Insisting that government spending comes from taxes, she says, puts the rich at the center of American policy-making in an unhealthy way. And the very rich, Keltons experience shows, are pleased to hear that you dont have to tax to spend.
[b]The conventional wisdom about deficits is that we should always be worried about them. When do you worry about deficits? [/b]
I worry not just about the magnitude, but about the purpose. We could [link=https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/05/opinion/deficit-tax-cuts-trump.html?mod=article_inline]add $1.5 trillion to the deficit[/link] over 10 years, as we just did with tax cuts that go disproportionately to people in the top-income distribution, and we could have done, for instance, student debt cancellation at virtually the same price tag. We could have done massive [link=https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/31/opinion/sotu-trump-infrastructure.html?mod=article_inline]infrastructure investment[/link], or R&D investment.
You can have the same budgetary outcome, but very different economic outcomes, in terms of the potential to boost long-term growth and productivity, impacts on the distribution of income, and so forth. Every economy has its own internal speed limit. You can only absorb so much additional spending at any point in time, given the slack that the economy has at that moment. So can the deficit be too big? Of course! But can it be too small? Yes. And thats something you rarely hear people say. Or complain about it.
Government debt is just the money the government spent into the economy and didnt tax back. Thats all the national debt is. Its a historical record of all of the times that they made a net deposit, spent more than they taxed out, and the bonds are the difference between those. One of the greatest cons ever perpetrated on the American people is this notion that the national debt belongs to us, that we are responsible in our individual capacity for a share of it.
When I worked on the Hill, one of my favorite exercises was to find elected officials, staffers, and ask them if you had a magic wand, and you could wave it, and eliminate the national debt tomorrow, would you do it? Of course. Who wouldnt do that? Yes, I mean, the quickest yes you ever got in your life.
OK, what if I gave you a different wand, and I told you, you can wave the magic wand, and you can eradicate the world of U.S. Treasuries. There wont be Treasury notes anymore. Theyll just all be gone. How many members of Congress, would do that?
[b]Zero.[/b]
They looked at me with a total blank stare.
[b]What about Greece, Portugal, Spain, Italy, Argentina, and their debt crises? They exist. Why dont those things worry you?[/b]
Well, the debt crises in those countries are worrying to me. But its not a lesson for America. You know, back in 2010, at the height of the [link=https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748703994904575647073671547454?mod=article_inline]European debt crisis,[/link] I can remember standing in my kitchen with the TV on, and turning on the news, cooking dinner, and seeing the opening to the nightly news. And it goes, dah, dah, dah, the debt crisis in America. And I go, what debt crisis in America? But that is really what the narrative started to become: This is a warning for America. We need to get our fiscal house in order.
Whats different? Look, Italy in 1995 had a debt-to-GDP ratio of around 120%. Spain in 1995 had a debt ratio of 62%. Greek debt-to-GDP over 100% before joining the euro. These countries were borrowing and spending in a currency that they created. Who remembers the debt crisis in Europe in 95? There was no debt crisis in 95, because Italy could always meet every obligation that came due, on time, in full,
[link=https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2018/03/09/2199190/stephanie-kelton-explains-how-the-government-budget-affects-the-economy-and-the-mechanics-of-student-debt-forgiveness/?mod=article_inline]https://ftalphaville.ft.c…ss/?mod=article_inline[/link]
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I’m.not sure that makes any sense. Debt is borrowed and it’s due to somebody. If you could just print money it’s worthless.
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I think that’s a reason for another tax cut then.
I don’t completely buy into her reasoning, seems too easy, something Republicans have been selling since Reagan and with the sole exception of clinton, we’ ve seen the deficits and debt rise as a direct result.
But the question is, so what? All the Republican deficit proponents should love her reasoning, spend, spend, spend, more tax cuts, more tax cuts, more tax cuts & everything will be fine if not better. All this worry about paying our bills? don’t worry, there is a free lunch.
But how is that different from Venezuela? Republican Socialism?
Free lunches are always paid for by someone. Eventually.-
Debt and deficits climbing.Time for another tax cut!
[link=https://www.barrons.com/articles/were-using-the-future-for-a-fiscal-dumping-ground-beware-trillion-dollar-deficits-1536975444]https://www.barrons.com/a…ar-deficits-1536975444[/link]
Debt held by the public, a conservative tally of what America owes, will swell from $15.7 trillion at the end of September, or 78% of gross domestic product, to $28.7 trillion in a decade, or 96% of GDP.
Those estimates, provided by the Congressional Budget Office, are based on reasonable assumptions about economic growth, inflation, employment, and interest rates, but they leave out some important things. They assume that the nations need for increased infrastructure investment, estimated by the American Society of Civil Engineers at $1.4 trillion through 2025, goes unmet. They dont account for the possibility of another financial crisis, or war, or a rise in the frequency or severity of natural disasters, and they assume that some Trump tax cuts will expire in 2025.
Its a generational issue, says Robert Bixby, executive director of the Concord Coalition, a nonpartisan group focused on the debt. Were using the future for a fiscal dumping ground.
Just holding the line at 78% of GDP over the next three decades would require finding massive, immediate savings in the budget$400 billion over the coming year, rising gradually to $690 billion by 2048, using 2019 dollars. In comparison, America spent $590 billion in fiscal 2017 on defense, and $610 billion on all other discretionary items. (The rest of the $4 trillion in spending went for mandatory programs, such as Social Security and Medicare, and for interest on the debt.)
This past week didnt inspire confidence. House Republicans introduced Tax Cuts 2.0bills touted as permanent tax relief for families and small businesses. But a fresh decline in federal revenue and the resulting increase in the deficit will hardly come as relief to the taxpayer whose share of the national debt, now $164,000 on average, is already set to top $250,000 in a decade.
Not all deficits are bad. [b]The $1 trillion-plus deficits America ran for four years ending in 2012 helped shore up its financial system and prevent a deep recession from turning into a prolonged depression[/b]. Keynesian economics calls for deficit spending and lower taxes during economic slumps to stimulate demand, with the money recouped through surpluses during good years. That last part isnt happening, however.
Over the coming 10 fiscal years, the CBO estimates real annual GDP growth averaging about 1.7%, and nominal growth of 4.0%. Deficits, meanwhile, are expected to rise from here, averaging 4.9% of gross domestic product annually over the coming decade. [b]The projected downshift in economic expansion owes in part to a widely accepted demographic challenge: the ongoing retirement of the baby boomers, which will hold back expansion of the labor force, a key determinant of GDP gains.[/b]
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I am thoroughly intrigued how there’s a Trump, Schumer, Pelosi oval office meeting that is being covered like a professional TV shoot of them arguing about the budget. It’s almost like watching a boxing weight in or something. Like a dog and pony show.
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Entertaining. To think, it’s only about whether the government closes or not.
So the Tea Baggers will go along with whatever spending Trump wants? Last I read getting the House Republicans to agree on spending was herding cats.
And where or where is McConnell?
President Trump on Tuesday vowed to block full funding for the government if Democrats refuse to embrace his demand for a border wall, saying he was proud to shut down the government for border security in an extraordinarily public altercation with Democratic congressional leaders at the White House.
Trump has issues with strong intelligent women who don’t want him to grab them.
Its not bad, Nancy; its called transparency, Mr. Trump snapped after one such interjection by Ms. Pelosi, who appeared to trigger the presidents temper when she raised the prospect of a Trump shutdown over what she characterized as an ineffective and wasteful wall.
The American people recognize that we must keep government open, that a shutdown is not worth anything, and that we should not have a Trump shutdown, Ms. Pelosi said.
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Love that he said I can get the wall passed and Pelosi responded ‘then go do it’. He got smocked around in front of the cameras.
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Quote from Frumious
Debt and deficits climbing.Time for another tax cut!
[link=https://www.barrons.com/articles/were-using-the-future-for-a-fiscal-dumping-ground-beware-trillion-dollar-deficits-1536975444]https://www.barrons.com/a…ar-deficits-1536975444[/link]
Debt held by the public, a conservative tally of what America owes, will swell from $15.7 trillion at the end of September, or 78% of gross domestic product, to $28.7 trillion in a decade, or 96% of GDP.
Those estimates, provided by the Congressional Budget Office, are based on reasonable assumptions about economic growth, inflation, employment, and interest rates, but they leave out some important things. They assume that the nations need for increased infrastructure investment, estimated by the American Society of Civil Engineers at $1.4 trillion through 2025, goes unmet. They dont account for the possibility of another financial crisis, or war, or a rise in the frequency or severity of natural disasters, and they assume that some Trump tax cuts will expire in 2025.
Its a generational issue, says Robert Bixby, executive director of the Concord Coalition, a nonpartisan group focused on the debt. Were using the future for a fiscal dumping ground.
Just holding the line at 78% of GDP over the next three decades would require finding massive, immediate savings in the budget$400 billion over the coming year, rising gradually to $690 billion by 2048, using 2019 dollars. In comparison, America spent $590 billion in fiscal 2017 on defense, and $610 billion on all other discretionary items. (The rest of the $4 trillion in spending went for mandatory programs, such as Social Security and Medicare, and for interest on the debt.)
This past week didnt inspire confidence. House Republicans introduced Tax Cuts 2.0bills touted as permanent tax relief for families and small businesses. But a fresh decline in federal revenue and the resulting increase in the deficit will hardly come as relief to the taxpayer whose share of the national debt, now $164,000 on average, is already set to top $250,000 in a decade.
Not all deficits are bad. [b]The $1 trillion-plus deficits America ran for four years ending in 2012 helped shore up its financial system and prevent a deep recession from turning into a prolonged depression[/b]. Keynesian economics calls for deficit spending and lower taxes during economic slumps to stimulate demand, with the money recouped through surpluses during good years. That last part isnt happening, however.
Over the coming 10 fiscal years, the CBO estimates real annual GDP growth averaging about 1.7%, and nominal growth of 4.0%. Deficits, meanwhile, are expected to rise from here, averaging 4.9% of gross domestic product annually over the coming decade. [b]The projected downshift in economic expansion owes in part to a widely accepted demographic challenge: the ongoing retirement of the baby boomers, which will hold back expansion of the labor force, a key determinant of GDP gains.[/b]
Choose a side, Frumi, which are you on? Obama 9 to 18 Trillion? Bush 4 to 9? You are scatterbrained. I wish you could open your mind to the monstrosity of government. Don’t you realize that we don’t have any of this money really, and all we do is create bubbles? How’d tax increases reduce the debt under Obozo? LOL
When will you be honest about anything in life?-
Hey Troll F@gan, speaking about honesty, try it sometime.
And answer the question about your claim that solar cycles are the cause of global warming.
But you dont know what you are talking on any subject, do you?
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Pelosi showed Mr Tiny Hands how small he is.
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2018/12/12/pelosi-puts-an-ignorant-irrational-president-his-place]https://www.washingtonpos…al-president-his-place[/link]
For all those Americans who have pined for moments when someone would say to President Trump, Thats just false, Mr. President or Excuse me, but youve been fact-checked on that repeatedly, Tuesday brought moral vindication. If youve found yourself defending the concept of objective truth or furious that the conservative movement has entered some postmodernist moment when facts are whatever you say they are, soon-to-be-House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) delivered in a face-to-face confrontation over funding for Trumps border wall. (As an aside, Im at a loss to understand how any Democrat could oppose literally the only elected Democrat who has publicly called out the president to his face, scoring a direct hit.)
She ferociously held her ground in an Oval Office showdown, daring him to make good on his boast that he had the votes in the House for his wall. Pelosi declared that there are no votes in the House, a majority of votes, for a wall no matter where you start. Trump insisted that hed have the votes if he wanted them. ” Well, then go do it. Go do it,” she said confidently. Wham!
Nevertheless, it was Pelosi who did what the media has not done interject, fact-check to his face and refuse to allow him to operate in a parallel reality. Its not just that Trump has blurred the difference between facts and lies, but that so few have stood up to him in the moment for all the public to see. Perhaps Pelosi will start a trend.
She managed to get under Trumps skin. Eli Stokols of the Los Angeles Times later reported, “It sort of spiraled out of control, and when the President left the Oval Office after Pelosi and Schumer left, a number of people saw him, he stormed out of the Oval, walked into an anteroom just off the Oval Office, and had in his hand a folder of briefing papers, and he just scattered them out of frustration, threw them across the room and expressed frustration to the people who were present.
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Quote from Frumious
Hey Troll F@gan, speaking about honesty, try it sometime.
And answer the question about your claim that solar cycles are the cause of global warming.
But you dont know what you are talking on any subject, do you?
The reasons are obvious. Many renowned scientists, and actual climatologists (unlike the “scientists” that are paid by gov’t grants who claim to be climate scientists or weather specialists) like Richard Lindzen (atmospheric physics) know how silly the global warming crowd is, and have written at length about it. For a summary, try GWPF for multiple .pdf lectures he has given to show how political, not scientific, the AGW movement is.
Dr. Valentina Zharkova has done extensive research and studies that talk about solar cycles, and you can find her work on youtube and other internet articles, sources.
But you aren’t interested in science. The next thing you’ll say is that Dr. Lindzen knows nothing, even though you can’t name a single “scientist” that is more qualified to speak on your end times theology than he is. The funnier thing is, you don’t even believe in God.
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So is Trump going to give his followers and Americans a government shutdown for Christmas?
President Grinch.
I only hope he remembers to say, “Merry Christmas!” and not Seasons’ Greetings! so Fox doesn’t get mad at him for being anti-Christmas and anti-Christian.
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You are a troll idiot, F@gan. You think everyone is as dumb as you.
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[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/white-house-democrats-dig-in-as-fears-of-partial-shutdown-intensify/2018/12/16/ae47a0a8-015c-11e9-b6a9-0aa5c2fcc9e4_story.html?utm_term=.265936ec46e4]Washington Post[/link] : [b]Defeated House Republicans no-show final days, increasing chance of shutdown[/b]
The White House and Democratic congressional leaders are at an impasse over negotiations to avoid a partial shutdown of the federal government at the end of the week, with both sides unwilling to budge from their positions on President Trumps proposed border wall
[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/16/us/politics/congress-trump-shutdown.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage]New York Times[/link]: But House Republican leaders are also confronting a more mundane and awkward problem: Their vanquished and retiring members are sick and tired of Washington and dont want to show up anymore to vote.
Call it the revenge of the lame ducks. Many lawmakers, relegated to cubicles as incoming members take their offices, have been skipping votes in the weeks since House Republicans were swept from power in the midterm elections, and Republican leaders are unsure whether they will ever return.
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So Trump is about to closed down the government as a Christmas gift to Americans and Federal employees because he can’t even get Republican support? And now Stephen Miller is trying to blame Democrats even thought Trump bragged the shutdown was all on him, that he’d be proud to shut the government down!
Trumpets live in their alternate universe. How do they rationalize this again?-
From The American Conservative:
[link=https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-biggest-losers-of-trumps-presidency-his-voters/]https://www.theamericanco…presidency-his-voters/[/link]
The saddest victims of Donald Trumps 2016 presidential victory, it now seems clear, are going to be his voters. The greatest beneficiaries of that election are going to be his haters.
This political paradox stems from the seeming inevitability of this president leaving his constituency high and dry through political incompetence, behavioral incontinence, an inability to maintain a focus on anything, and an incapacity to think or act coherently. His presidency so far has been characterized by political failure, and its going to get worse before the end of his term, by which point the voters will have expelled him from the White House.
That will be bad news for those who voted for Trump in 2016.
Trump operated only on the surface of things. He lacked the thinking skills and even the vocabulary to go any deeper. But it is below the surface where the great political battles are waged. Thats where coherent arguments and narratives are pieced together. Its where politicians craft the language they need to communicate effectively with the people. Its where coalitions are galvanized.
Trump cant get there. Thats one reason he repeats himself so often. After making a bold statement, other politicians elaborate on it, hold it up to the light for illumination, offer explanatory language, parse the complexities. Trump cant do that, so he merely says the same thing over and over again. That contributes also to the ham-handed way he deals with political and diplomatic challenges, even highly delicate ones.
Fred Barnes, [link=https://www.weeklystandard.com/fred-barnes/president-trumps-precarious-position]writing in[/link] [i]The Weekly Standard[/i], correctly notes that the midterm elections demonstrated that Trump has real-life reelection trouble. He adds that millions of voters expressed their disdain for Trump in the congressional balloting, brushing aside the presidents achievements on taxes, judges, and deregulation. This showed how strongly they felt about his personal behavior. Worse, says Barnes, Trump doesnt appear to understand this, as reflected in his suggestion that defeated Republican House members could have survived had they more avidly accepted his embrace.
And so the die is probably cast. Trump will be a one-term president.
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actually looks like Sarah Huckabee Sanders is walking back the shutdown today. Something like they’ve found another way to fund the wall. Maybe Mexico is paying for it?
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
actually looks like Sarah Huckabee Sanders is walking back the shutdown today. Something like they’ve found another way to fund the wall. Maybe Mexico is paying for it?
Trump really has a binary choice here.
1) Cave now, avoid a shut-down and try to spin thew Wall later
2) Stand firm now, get a shut down, then still have to cave later with a Democratic House and go back to spinning the wall funding.It really comes down to whether or not Trump wants a shut own for political reasons. Now that he owns it fully after his blurt out with Chuck and Nancy, I am sure the people around him are trying to convince him that choice #1 is the smart one.
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Nothing [b][i]really [/i][/b]matters (as in “how”) [b]if [/b]the wall is built. If it gets done, he wins. Period.
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Unknown Member
Deleted UserDecember 18, 2018 at 12:46 pmUntil it gets torn down within a decade
So fng stupid you are
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Unknown Member
Deleted UserDecember 18, 2018 at 12:47 pmWaste of money
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Quote from kpack123
Until it gets torn down within a decade
So fng stupid you are
Whatever, you say some weird stuff, you can’t even back that up. Nor would you bet money on it. Keep typing from the basement-
Unknown Member
Deleted UserDecember 18, 2018 at 5:41 pmYep
Basement with an ocean view
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Sanders made the claim they don’t want tax payer money and followed it up with they directed agencies to look at their budgets for money. Uh duh…that is tax payer money Sarah. Also there’s already tunnels, mexipults, ladders, scaffolding, ropes used to get over walls. Unless they want to have like a wall like Game of Thrones, people are going to get around it.
Another option would be give people legal entry and a process to become a citizen or seek assylum easily.
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No BS on Twitter trump writes were not building a concrete wall, were building artistically designed steel slats. Cant even make this up.
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Ryan Alexander, President of Taxpayers for Common Sense
[url=https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/politics/422074-the-problem-with-the-president-seeking-border-wall-funding]The problem with the president seeking border wall funding without Congress[/url]
This latest idea of actually paying for wall construction out of the DoD Appropriations bill has a major stumbling block: [link=https://www.gao.gov/legal/appropriations-law-decisions/resources/]the Antideficiency Act[/link]. Once the domain of only the most serious appropriations law nerds, the Trump era has pushed this statute out of the shadows of [link=https://www.gao.gov/legal/redbook/redbook.html]Principles of Federal Appropriations Law[/link] and made it an issue that must be discussed.
Simply stated, this is the law that says money appropriated by Congress cannot be spent in advance or in excess of a congressional appropriation. Also, the act prohibits involving the government in any obligation to pay money before funds have been appropriated [i]for that purpose[/i] (emphasis added.) In effect this means funds may only be used to pay for the item or action for which the money was specifically appropriated.
…
Either a formal reprogramming request must be sent to the Congress or any final appropriations legislation must specifically allow Pentagon appropriations to be used for barrier construction. Barring either of those actions, the Trump administration risks violating the law.
[/QUOTE]-
[url=https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-12-19/why-trump-can-t-build-his-wall]Bloomberg Opinion: [/url] [b]Why Trump Cant Build His Wall –Without discipline, organization or bargaining skills, the administration has never stood much of a chance.[/b]
The wall, in fact, offers a good example of why Trump just isnt very good at presidenting.
To begin with, it demonstrates that choosing a political agenda based on whatever sound bite produces a strong audience response is a risky strategy at best. The wall was never a well-considered policy, and its very real defects had never been smoothed out during the campaign. Claiming that Mexico would pay for it created both entirely unrealistic expectations and a needless foreign-policy problem right off the bat.
It remained a possibility even so. But Trumps chaotic transition meant that there was never a real legislative agenda for Republicans in Congress to follow, which left them to pursue their own priorities. The wall wasnt at the top of their list. Trumps embrace of extreme partisanship, meanwhile, meant that Democrats were in no mood to compromise. This combination of chaos and partisanship contributed to Trumps very low approval ratings during what would normally be a honeymoon period, which meant that neither party was all that eager to do what he wanted.
…It doesnt help that the president has never learned the basic rules of the game. So, for example, when it became clear that Congress wasnt going to appropriate money for the wall yet again, Trump apparently [link=https://twitter.com/elianayjohnson/status/1075108419680505861]asked his Cabinet[/link] to find some extra cash within their agencies. It doesnt work that way; the executive branch [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/trump-faces-large-barrier-as-he-seeks-money-for-border-wall/2018/12/18/693e6d36-0303-11e9-b5df-5d3874f1ac36_story.html?utm_term=.1e3c9eac764b]isnt allowed[/link] to transfer big sums of money without congressional approval. But even if it was, bureaucrats are fiercely protective of their agencies budgets. Theyre not going to suddenly confess to having unspent funds available. Especially since the president has earned a reputation for being easily rolled, and not just by Congress.
…
Could things change? Ive always suspected that the end game for the wall would entail building just enough of it to fill one long camera shot so that Trump could go down to the border and officially declare it open. He already [link=https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/fact-check-trump-constructs-false-misleading-claims-about-his-border-n946651]falsely claims[/link] that the wall is under construction. I suspect that over the next two years, Democrats might try again to cut a deal in which they agree to at least some wall funding in return for a lot of their other priorities. Senate Republicans wont want to give away the store for 100 yards of border wall, of course. But the president just might.
[/QUOTE]
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I just read that Mick Mulvaney is gonna let Trump be Trump. If that’s the case I think we’re in for a crazy 2019.
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Looking like Trump does want to force a shutdown after all as he threatens not signing the CR.
But then he likes playing with chaos. Little god complex.
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Well he’s a narcissist. I was seeing some chatter that people were basically getting to him because of the wall. So like a spoiled little kid he’ll take his ball and go home.
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Is using the turmoil in the markets and everything else as a hostage in order to get his way.
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Listening to news about his refusal to sign the CR, it seems hes also listening to the conservative talking heads who are screaming for a wall or bust the country, people like Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter demanding a wall or a shut down.
The market had been down already but minutes after Paul Ryan announced a failed meeting to sign the CR the market dropped a lot more and is now -600 points.
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Yep. As soon as he got push-pack from the Right wing rant-o-sphere he caved.
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[link=https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/18/politics/trump-ignore-majority-shutdown-wall/index.html]Ron Brownstein[/link]: [b]Trump Doubles-Down on Losing Strategy[/b]
With his threat to shut down the federal government unless he receives funding for his border wall, President Trump is employing a tactic that is unpopular to advance a goal that may be even more unpopular.
Trumps threats and the muted public resistance to them from GOP congressional leaders offer the latest evidence that the partys drubbing in the midterm election has not changed the White Houses fundamental strategic calculus.
Though the proposed border wall faces widespread opposition among all the groups in the electorate that powered the big Democratic gains in the House last month, and government shutdowns historically have alienated a broad range of the public, both the end and the means remain popular among the Presidents core supporters.
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There funniest part is that Trump’s fight with funding a wall isn’t with Democrats even though many are trying to spin it as such, but it’s with Republicans who haven’t funded the wall. Many have gone home after losing the election & have zero incentive to come back to Washington having already returned to their home states – they don’t care is the government shuts down, they are out of it now.
Pelosi told him to get the Wall as he bragged now let’s see if the Republicans can deliver.
Hope all the Trumpets are happy about their choice in helping to wreck the Country, financially and global influence as we give away influence for free to Russia and China and anyone else who wants to grab it.-
Yupper the defeated are pretty much done and gone. I did get a kick out of something I saw from McCaskill today. I guess she was at the Senate floor taking some video before session and McConnel called the sargeant at arms to tell her she couldn’t. (what a pussy move) Also she’s like I’m sorry it won’t happen again. Ah the humor.
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And speaking of the defeated, Im also wondering where the Trumpets are on the AM Forum, you know the ones who are complaining about the echo chambers who arent here to to make their argument for Trump? I really need an explanation about how what Trump is doing is best for the country. Because Im not getting it.
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If the Dems vote no, there will be a shutdown that will last for a very long time. People dont want Open Borders and Crime!
~Trump
Also, McConnell rejects blowing up the legislative filibuster-
3rd shutdown in 2 years, 2nd this year.
What a government Republicans have made. We are the joke of representative democracy. Putin is wetting himself laughing so hard watching us self-destruct.
[link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2018/12/21/cry-me-river-trump-enablers]https://www.washingtonpos…e-river-trump-enablers[/link]
“Were in a critical moment. The number of conservatives who I have talked to in the last day, who worked on the campaign, who supported the president, who now say, You know what, I regret doing that, this was a mistake, this administration is, you know, off the rails. All of these investigations that are coming to a head are going to be a huge problem, New York Times reporter Maggie Haberman said on CNN.
Now, I have no idea whether the conservatives Haberman is quoting include Republican office holders, but regardless they sure do owe we in the #NeverTrump movement an awful big apology. It was not like we didnt warn them that Trump was unfit for the presidency, lawless, narcissistic, unwilling to learn, erratic, irrational and cruel. We pretty much told them theyd be intellectually and morally corrupted in trying to defend him.
Unfortunately, the Republicans who lacked character and judgment to oppose Trump, vilified his critics and enabled Trump for almost two years dont have the nerve even to identify themselves.
[b]Senate and House Republicans are still in the Trump cult. If they wanted to, they could pass a clean CR by a huge margin and then override Trumps veto. That they wont even vote on such a measure tells us they must not be all that regretful.[/b]
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This should mean that Trump cannot travel correct? No Florida Christmas
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
This should mean that Trump cannot travel correct? No Florida Christmas
He’s staying back in DC … Melania and Barron went south on AF1 yesterday.
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Should not be allowed during a shutdown. This is a prime example of what’s wrong with government. Congress still gets their pay checks and we foot the bill for sending this arse and his family to West Palm Beach for Christmas
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Unknown Member
Deleted UserDecember 23, 2018 at 9:40 amProblem is most in congress can miss a few paychecks and still pay their bills
Average people cant
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Unknown Member
Deleted UserDecember 23, 2018 at 9:40 amProblem is most in congress can miss a few paychecks and still pay their bills
Average people cant
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There’s a massively incoherent rambling from him on Twitter about using shutdown money to build the wall
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
There’s a massively incoherent rambling from him on Twitter about using shutdown money to build the wall
You’re right. I have no idea what that means:
“The Wall is different than the 25 Billion Dollars in Border Security. The complete Wall will be built with the Shutdown money plus funds already in hand. The reporting has been inaccurate on the point. The problem is, without the Wall, much of the rest of Dollars are wasted!” -
Quote from DICOM_Dan
There’s a massively incoherent rambling from him on Twitter about using shutdown money to build the wall
Good, it’ll show more Trump Derangement Syndrome from you guys.
You all don’t have a unified point about anything except, “Orange man BAD”
It’s quite funny. No one cares. And it’s not helpful. Are you out of the markets, Dicom? Are you holding?
Please tell me, otherwise your posts mean zero — like the rest of the clowns around here. They must be jealous of Trump anyway, the derangement is so high.
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And he was so looking forward to getting that coal in his stocking from West Virginia!
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Looks like Trump just unfollowed Ann coulter on Twit after her criticism of his zero legacy if his Wall is not built.
Poor, poor boy, his allies are abandoning him.
Expect more crazy decisions from this Administration as there are no “adults in the room” anymore. Although considering, the adult monitors were pretty ineffective but now with no filter between Trump & Fox & Limbaugh on domestic and foreign affairs, WTF happens next?
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Allno wrote was Trump put some jive statement on Twitter. Dergon posted it above. I saw that and thought maybe he needs a mental health check up because it makes no sense.
No I’m not out of the markets. Just keep investing and look long term. Short term turbulence isn’t changing my plans. Although I might like to get some more Apple stock.
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Another year. Another shutdown to promote illegal immigration.
Just don’t act all surprised if Trump wins in 2020.
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Unknown Member
Deleted UserDecember 25, 2018 at 10:10 amDont be surprised if he resigns
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Im hoping 401ks tanking will turn enough of those fiscally conservative upper middle class voters who supported him just because he was a GOPer (to get a tax cut) against him in 2020. Because we know the trailer park red necks in the flyover states dont care about 401ks since they arent responsible enough to own one.
Heres to 2019 bringing on a Recession! We are already almost there.
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Unknown Member
Deleted UserDecember 25, 2018 at 10:35 amAny wall built will get torn down in a decade or 2
Giant waste of money by short sighted individuals drumming up political paranoia
If they wanted to stop immigration from our southern border they would have cracked down on employers years ago
This is all Bull sheet
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Quote from kpack123
Any wall built will get torn down in a decade or 2
Giant waste of money by short sighted individuals drumming up political paranoia
If they wanted to stop immigration from our southern border they would have cracked down on employers years ago
This is all Bull sheet
Universal e-verify which includes all subcontractors. If you are the owner of the farm or the general contractor building the house you are responsible for the immigration status of all workers on your site. No more civil rights carve-outs, no more ‘it looked legit’ safe haven. You present for work, the responsible employer or GC prints a e-verify and then you start working. Combine that with robust inland enforcement. Make every local law enforcement automatically deputized to enforce immigration laws. Protect witnesses and victims, but anyone who gets arrested is run through IBIS and is put on a direct flight to Guatemala the day their sentence is served. Start the deportation paperwork the day the sentence for a crime of violence takes effect, not at the end of the sentence.
And build a fence. Make the fence from domestic steel. CorTen, that way you don’t even have to paint the thing.
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FW that would be too logical, to actually verify that people are in the country legally.
You have to actually make sure that california follows federal law too which is another struggle in their “promise land,” of guys crapping on the sidewalk and needles left and right.-
Regulating employers to e-verify as a requirement? Isn’t that against Republican small government?
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Unknown Member
Deleted UserDecember 25, 2018 at 12:39 pmRepublicans dont want to do it
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Unknown Member
Deleted UserDecember 25, 2018 at 1:39 pmFunny how California has no problem with it but butt-F-ville midwesterners want a wall
Like how many illegals live in the rural Midwest????
2 or 3
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Quote from fw
Universal e-verify which includes all subcontractors. If you are the owner of the farm or the general contractor building the house you are responsible for the immigration status of all workers on your site. No more civil rights carve-outs, no more ‘it looked legit’ safe haven. You present for work, the responsible employer or GC prints a e-verify and then you start working. Combine that with robust inland enforcement. Make every local law enforcement automatically deputized to enforce immigration laws. Protect witnesses and victims, but anyone who gets arrested is run through IBIS and is put on a direct flight to Guatemala the day their sentence is served. Start the deportation paperwork the day the sentence for a crime of violence takes effect, not at the end of the sentence.
And build a fence. Make the fence from domestic steel. CorTen, that way you don’t even have to paint the thing.
Gee, considering the Nebraska will all the sausage factories and chicken processing plants are in the MidWest, making mandatory e-Virify should be a slam-dunk as a solution consider almost all of those states are run by Republican Governors and Legislators.
Maybe you should ask them why such a simple solution as mandating employers in those states to use e-Verify isn’t done? Seems like a no-brainer & a LOT cheaper than building a Wall!-
Unknown Member
Deleted UserDecember 26, 2018 at 7:44 amI love when the residents of states whose tax base cant support their costs to the federal government beatch about liberal California whose taxes support their sorry rural arses
That I find amusingly stupid
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Unknown Member
Deleted UserDecember 26, 2018 at 7:46 amAnd frumi
Yes absolutely agree these states with Republican governors and legislators need to pass this e-verify legislation and make sure their employers keep those illegals out
Let those who yell the loudest lead the way
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California has a budget surplus. Just like Kansas!
California’s budget surplus is almost $15 billion & Brown is also leaving a rainy day fund of an additional $15 billion! Back in 2011 when Brown became Governor he inherited a $27 billion deficit from Arnold.
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Quote from kpack123
I love when the residents of states whose tax base cant support their costs to the federal government beatch about liberal California whose taxes support their sorry rural arses
That I find amusingly stupid
probably something everyone can agree on is the hatred for taxes. California pays a lot of taxes but they also get tax breaks too. Especially around shooting movies. OH gave a $40m tax break for shooting motion pictures.
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Quote from Frumious
Gee, considering the Nebraska will all the sausage factories and chicken processing plants are in the MidWest, making mandatory e-Virify should be a slam-dunk as a solution consider almost all of those states are run by Republican Governors and Legislators.
Maybe you should ask them why such a simple solution as mandating employers in those states to use e-Verify isn’t done? Seems like a no-brainer & a LOT cheaper than building a Wall!
Enforcing immigration laws is a federal issue. When AZ and AL started their own enforcement initiatives, they got shut down by the feds and the courts.
Argument fail.
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frumi doesn’t even know what non-falsifiable is
yet she claims to know and invoke “science”
Saturday morning cartoon with Bill Nye type stuff-
Quote from Dr. ****er
frumi doesn’t even know what non-falsifiable is
yet she claims to know and invoke “science”
Saturday morning cartoon with Bill Nye type stuff
Owwwwww! There’s that most insulting thing you can thing of – calling me a WOMAN!!??? That’s it? The worst insult for you is calling someone “SHE”???
OH!
Are you an INCEL perhaps, angry at women? You sound like one. -
Interesting while Trumpnis visiting the Troops in Iraq he’s completely fabricating complete non sense about getting them a raise.
From Bill Kristol.
Trump to the troops in Iraq:
“You havent gotten [a raise] in more than ten years. More than ten years. And we got you a big one. I got you a big one….I said no. Make it ten percent. Make it more than ten percent. Because its been a long time.”
Just FYI, none of this is true.
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Quote from fw
Quote from Frumious
Gee, considering the Nebraska will all the sausage factories and chicken processing plants are in the MidWest, making mandatory e-Virify should be a slam-dunk as a solution consider almost all of those states are run by Republican Governors and Legislators.
Maybe you should ask them why such a simple solution as mandating employers in those states to use e-Verify isn’t done? Seems like a no-brainer & a LOT cheaper than building a Wall!
Enforcing immigration laws is a federal issue. When AZ and AL started their own enforcement initiatives, they got shut down by the feds and the courts.
Argument fail.
Hello! Wake up! Trumpets have been in charge of the Presidency and both Houses of Congress since 2017! What stopped you people from enforcing e-Verify for employment?
As for your argument, it does not apply. Some states have required the use of e-Verify.
[link=https://www.laboremploymentperspectives.com/2013/06/03/e-verify-am-i-required-to-use-it/]https://www.laboremployme…-i-required-to-use-it/[/link]In addition, some states have [link=https://www.numbersusa.com/content/learn/illegal-immigration/map-states-mandatory-e-verify-laws.html]specific laws[/link] that require employers in the state to use E-Verify. This is currently the case in Alabama, Arizona, Georgia, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Utah (for employers with 15 or more employees). Louisiana and Tennessee require E-Verify unless an additional, alternate verification step is completed as outlined under state law. Other states have the E-Verify requirement limited to contractors or public employers.
[link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-Verify]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-Verify[/link]
There are a number of state laws requiring or limiting the use of E-Verify for employers. According to a 2012 survey by the Center for Immigration Studies, 16 states require use of E-Verify in some form. The survey found that six states have laws requiring all or nearly all businesses to use E-Verify to determine employment eligibility: Arizona, Mississippi, South Carolina, Alabama, Georgia, and North Carolina. Five states require use of E-Verify by public employers and all or most public contractors: Indiana, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Virginia, and Missouri. Three states require only public contractors to use E-Verify: Louisiana, Minnesota, and Pennsylvania. Idaho only requires public employers to use E-Verify, while Florida only requires it for agencies under direction of the governor. Colorado and Utah encourage use of E-Verify, but allow for alternative means of employment verification. An E-Verify-only mandate in Utah is contingent on the state’s effort to create a state-level guestworker program. The survey also found that some states have moved in the opposite direction, limiting or discouraging use of E-Verify: California, Rhode Island, and Illinois.[link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-Verify#cite_note-17][17][/link]
In 2011, the [link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Court_of_the_U.S.]Supreme Court of the U.S.[/link] rejected a suit arguing that [link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona]Arizona[/link]’s state law, which can cause employers found failing to use E-Verify to lose their state business licenses, was pre-empted by federal law. [b]The ruling effectively confirmed that states may mandate the use of E-Verify[/b].
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